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[00:32:41] <jepler> my normal machines spoil me for building software .. by comparison this single-core, 1800MHz "Sempron" is a dog.
[01:30:55] <jepler> yay, after months of neglect the little zenbot still works just fine
[01:31:08] <jepler> at least well enough to play with the modified pid..
[01:34:33] <cradek> cool
[01:34:53] <cradek> sounds like really good results - cool, glad you tried that.
[01:42:31] <jepler> cradek: will you try it on one of your real machines?
[02:23:58] <cradek> jepler: they both have very high resolution so I'm not sure they're the best test cases, but yes, I can try it
[02:41:10] <skunkworks> I wonder what happens when you have velocity mode amp and use the velocity pid (using the velocity from mesa endoder)
[02:41:20] <skunkworks> encoder
[02:42:25] <cradek> if you use any D, it'll improve its smoothness
[03:04:46] <KimK> I was just reading the mailing list about the fest. I'm hoping to attend. I was going to ask if anyone is interested in further pursuit of that elusive Ubuntu-changes-related parallel port error (what, "...mode not supported, continuing anyway... etc.) I could probably get John to send his extra Pico-Systems USC board along if that would help, and I'll have one PC with a parallel port.
[03:06:06] <cradek> good - hope you can make it. I'm not sure what the parport issues are, but bringing extra parts is never a bad idea
[03:06:39] <KimK> cradek: that was weird, did you just try to send? (just before "good - etc.)
[03:07:12] <cradek> good - ... was all i've typed for the last 20 minutes
[03:08:08] <KimK> OK, must be an X-chat thing. Your send name appeared in front of my 2nd line of wraparound text. Odd.
[03:10:11] <SWPadnos> I have two D50-based motherboards, and I think at least one of them has a parallel port
[03:10:14] <SWPadnos> D510
[03:11:43] <SWPadnos> ah, they both do, except one of them has a header with 2mm spacing (silly)
[03:14:12] <KimK> Anyway, John still gets that parallel port error once on startup, and I think jepler said it had something to do with changes that Ubuntu made in how they handle the PP. I don't know if this happens only on Pico USC or if others see this too.
[03:15:42] <KimK> It would be nice to see that gone, but maybe there are bigger fish to fry.
[03:18:17] <cradek> do you have to run it twice, or does it whine but continue?
[03:19:30] <KimK> No, it just complains and writes a message box. It says "...continuing anyway." and it seems to because one start and it does run.
[03:20:06] <cradek> interesting - didn't know that would pop up a box.
[03:20:18] <cradek> sounds mildly irritating
[03:20:53] <KimK> I think it begins "PARPORT:..." if that helps?
[03:21:12] <SWPadnos> "EPP mode not supported ... continuing anyway" or similar
[03:21:49] <KimK> not sure if it's EPP mode or "mode 4"(?) but yes, something like that.
[03:22:49] <KimK> It's not killing us, so let the triage begin. If we have to keep living with it, so be it.
[03:23:21] <cradek> I bet [the author] meant for it to be in dmesg, not a popup
[03:24:25] <KimK> I could start the BP2 and get you the exact text, if it would help you to think about it?
[03:32:02] <BridgeportIIa> OK, here's the (transcribed) text in the Axis message box (red circle, white X):
[03:32:18] <BridgeportIIa> PARPORT: linux parport parport0 does not support mode 4.
[03:32:22] <BridgeportIIa> PARPORT: continuing anyway.
[03:35:33] <KimK> Hope that helps.
[03:36:45] <cradek> looks like it's printed with level ERR - wonder if that was on purpose
[03:37:08] <cradek> if there's nothing you can do about it ...
[03:37:18] <cradek> let's wait for jepler to comment tomorrow - I think it's his doing
[03:38:32] <KimK> OK, that's fine. I was only wondering how helpful it would be to have a Pico USC in Wichita, assuming I make it there.
[03:47:14] <cradek> hope you can make it - bring whatever's spare, just in case (especially if jon e can't make it).
[03:47:17] <cradek> I'm off to bed, goodnight
[03:51:25] <KimK> Thanks, goodnight
[08:54:26] <CIA-2> EMC: 03micges 07joints_axes3 * ref5dbaff8aa6 10/src/emc/motion/motion.c: Remove repeated line added during merge
[12:19:07] <jepler> the relevant commit is this one:
http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=commitdiff;h=a661c17
[12:19:22] <jepler> if there are real people for whom emc works after that message occurs, then we should simply lower it to a warning
[12:23:35] <jepler> (and it sounds like there are...)
[12:28:51] <CIA-2> EMC: 03jepler 07v2.4_branch * rdebc639a0dab 10/src/hal/drivers/parport_common.h: pico/7i43: don't show a non-fatal message as error
[13:04:33] <cradek> jepler: thanks
[13:16:11] <micges> hi
[13:16:27] <micges> after this load error:
http://pastebin.com/UDE15Q8j
[13:17:11] <micges> I've got this error:
http://pastebin.com/x4XjrRjA
[13:17:21] <micges> and I can't load emc in any way
[13:43:37] <jepler> micges_work: you'll probably have to reboot to clear that error condition
[13:43:45] <jepler> I'll speculate that the problem was introduced in commit 44e7da328d5b7c038462e956694f6bd0f06fed10
[13:43:53] <jepler> .. assuming you're using master there
[13:45:21] <jepler> either way, there's something missing in the error handling that leaves the system in an inconsistent state where hm2_pci can't be loaded again..
[13:58:48] <micges_work> master here
[14:02:06] <micges_work> jepler: I can't test pids today
[14:02:41] <micges_work> but tomorrow or friday I will
[14:04:58] <micges_work> bbl
[14:09:25] <jepler> micges: let me know if this patch fixes the problem ..
http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/0001-hm2_pci-fix-unload-after-failed-registration.patch
[14:18:10] <jepler> does this documentation make sense and express what I mean?
http://pastebin.com/Q9zSfdtE
[14:19:21] <cradek> yes I think so
[14:21:25] <SWPadnos> I think that explains it well
[14:21:50] <SWPadnos> it's too bad the pin can't be made an output when it's not in use, for monitoring purposes
[14:22:52] <jepler> actually it basically is
[14:23:18] <jepler> when a pin is created it points at its dummysig
[14:23:56] <jepler> each time its function runs, pid puts the estimate on the dummysig and then uses the value from the pin to compute the D term
[14:24:07] <jepler> unlinked -> old estimate is used and appears on that pin as though it was an output
[14:24:18] <jepler> linked -> external estimate is used and old estimate can't be seen in hal
[14:24:25] <jepler> it's a bit of a nasty trick..
[14:24:39] <SWPadnos> right. but you can't connect it to a pyvcp meter, for example
[14:25:46] <jepler> yes, you have to know to meter/scope the pin directly, not connect a signal and scope it
[14:25:57] <SWPadnos> roght
[14:25:59] <SWPadnos> err
[14:26:01] <SWPadnos> right
[14:33:20] <jepler> anybody want to stop me before I push this pid change?
[14:33:38] <cradek> nope, it needs the light of day
[14:36:56] <JT-Work> give it a shove
[14:37:50] <CIA-2> EMC: 03jepler 07master * r8702094f3779 10/src/hal/components/pid.c: pid: read command, feedback only once
[14:37:51] <CIA-2> EMC: 03jepler 07master * r44586b831e1e 10/ (docs/man/man9/pid.9 src/hal/components/pid.c): pid: accept external command-deriv, feedback-deriv
[14:43:43] <cradek> neat
[14:54:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. the "read inputs only once" patch isn't complere
[14:54:33] <SWPadnos> complete
[14:55:04] <SWPadnos> only the error calculation was replaced, not derivative etc.
[15:07:09] <psha> are you using stock gnome wm on production controllers?
[15:07:40] <cradek> my mill has regular gnome with touchy set up to auto start
[15:08:32] <cradek> I mostly use the gnome toolbars for shutdown, and very occasionally for file browsing (using places/home ...) to do something like view the tool table
[15:08:44] <psha> thanks
[15:09:48] <psha> i'm installing ubuntu for end-user so asking for 'best practices' :)
[15:10:15] <psha> so let gnome be there...
[15:10:24] <cradek> ah - IMO best practice with ubuntu is to not change anything that will make finding help online harder for end user
[15:11:04] <psha> yes :) and that's why i don't install dwm with preconfigured emc start :)
[15:33:02] <jepler> SWPadnos: hmph, now you tell me
[15:33:12] <SWPadnos> heh. well I didn't see it before :)
[15:33:53] <psha> finally i have working python bidings for camunits framework! now i may add camera widgets with glade :)
[17:54:42] <CIA-2> EMC: 03swpadnos 07master * rdf3f3609bd99 10/src/hal/components/pid.c: Remove a couple of accesses to the command input pin, using
[17:55:37] <SWPadnos> I suppose I could have tested that first
[18:00:38] <skunkworks> eh
[18:00:45] <skunkworks> somebody will. ;)
[18:01:07] <SWPadnos> heh. destructive testing ;)
[18:03:20] <micges> it compiles ;)
[18:11:29] <psha> is there a.y packages for HEAD?
[18:12:21] <psha> or i пeed to build theм мyself?
[18:13:49] <SWPadnos> I did compile test it
[18:14:17] <cradek> psha: your text is screwy here
[18:14:33] <SWPadnos> I think the buildbot makes testing packages, but I don't know if they are in a repo
[18:14:34] <cradek> psha: buildbot regularly builds packages from git master, if that's what you mean
[18:14:42] <SWPadnos> you'd have to download and install manually
[18:14:46] <SWPadnos> (I think)
[18:14:59] <cradek> http://emc2-buildbot.colorado.edu/~buildmaster/
[18:18:26] <psha> thaпks
[18:19:45] <cradek> I am seeing "or i \u043feed to build the\u043c \u043cyself?" and "tha\u043fks"
[18:20:29] <skunkworks> wierd
[18:20:36] <skunkworks> <psha> or i пeed to build theм мyself?
[18:20:55] <skunkworks> that looks normal to me
[18:21:00] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, Windows?
[18:21:03] <skunkworks> yes
[18:21:14] <SWPadnos> me too, and that's what I see (in Chatzilla)
[18:21:19] <skunkworks> webchat.freenode.net
[18:21:26] <cradek> 13:20 < skunkwork> <psha> or i \u043feed to build the\u043c \u043cyself?
[18:21:29] <SWPadnos> cradek is probably seeing the real thing in irssi
[18:21:32] <skunkworks> odd
[18:21:45] <cradek> oh well
[18:21:50] <skunkworks> looks like caps are screwey
[18:22:18] <skunkworks> or not
[18:25:42] <psha> cradek: sorry but .y keyboard is partially killed by kid
[18:25:58] <cradek> haha
[18:26:00] <Jymmm> This... 2010-10-27 11:12:22 psha: or i –øeed to build the–º –ºyself?
[18:26:00] <psha> letter betwee. B a.d < are .ot worki.g
[18:26:30] <Jymmm> http://codepad.org/pjl2awcz
[18:26:30] <psha> so i'. replaci.g the. with cyrillic :)
[18:26:58] <cradek> on the commodore 64 the space bar often quit working (until you took it apart and cleaned out the ground-up plastic dust) so I'd sometimes give up andtypewithoutit
[18:28:26] <SWPadnos> Yeah,whybotherseparatingwords?Theyallendupinthesameplaceanyway.
[18:30:34] <psha_> and here is my only working keyboard
[18:30:37] <psha_> connected to testbed
[18:33:27] <jepler> here most of the odd letters are showing as dots, but there's an "m" somewhere back there that is actually a cyrillic character.
[18:33:36] <jepler> at least I know what's going on now
[18:33:41] <jepler> SWPadnos: thanks for fixing that fix
[18:33:50] <jepler> I hope you got it right, otherwise everybody's going to blame my pid fixes
[18:33:53] <SWPadnos> sure. is it fixed?
[18:33:55] <psha_> i was replacing m and n either with dots or with cyrillic :)
[18:33:58] <SWPadnos> excellent!
[18:34:05] <psha_> psha_ is now known as psha
[18:39:03] <jepler> First, rewinding head to replay your work on top of it...
[18:39:03] <jepler> Applying: pid: really read command only once
[18:39:03] <jepler> Using index info to reconstruct a base tree...
[18:39:03] <jepler> Falling back to patching base and 3-way merge...
[18:39:03] <jepler> No changes -- Patch already applied.
[18:39:24] <jepler> SWPadnos: neat! your change was exactly the same as the change I'd made and committed locally .. and git figured that out and did the right thing
[18:39:31] <SWPadnos> cool
[19:05:34] <CIA-2> EMC: 03jepler 07master * r6f2907912b9e 10/ (4 files in 4 dirs): axis: optionally use a blend mode for preview plot
[19:06:22] <psha> jepler: have you tried 1px backplot lines?
[19:12:15] <jepler> psha: I looked at your screenshot and tried a few different things but I haven't found anything I'm thrilled with..
[19:28:36] <psha> so let's trust your artistic taste
[19:50:29] <cradek> checking for sarcasm ... indeterminate
[19:53:41] <psha> no sarcasm!
[19:53:54] <psha> :)
[19:54:17] <psha> i honestly honor others taste since i'm horrible in desiging interfaces/look-n-feels...
[19:55:32] <cradek> :-)
[19:56:04] <cradek> jepler is good at look/feel - I trust him too.
[19:56:29] <jepler> thanks for the votes of confidence
[19:57:07] <jepler> don't let it stop you from showing me your ideas though
[20:59:14] <ries_> ries_ is now known as ries
[22:38:36] <KimK> jepler: Thanks for making that change to v2.4_branch on the parallel port error. We'll look forward to trying it when 2.4.6 comes around. I noticed the CIA-2 report mentioned "...pico/7i43...", those are the only trouble spots? No one else uses EPP? I'm surprised.
[22:39:40] <cradek> well pluto does, when it feels like working
[22:39:46] <jepler> KimK: it doesn't affect hal_parport users (no epp used there). It affects pluto users but I didn't mention them because I wish there were none.
[22:39:47] <cradek> but those are the significant players anyway
[22:39:55] <cradek> ha
[22:40:35] <KimK> Ah, OK, thanks. I don't know anything about Pluto. (And maybe I shouldn't, from the sound of it, lol?)
[22:41:29] <jepler> it's a board designed with about 1% of the skill and care of the epp boards from pico or mesa
[22:42:09] <cradek> for 1% of the skill and care, it runs on about 30% of machines - that's not too bad a payoff
[22:43:09] <KimK> OK, thanks, I'll Google it sometime.
[22:44:49] <jepler> googling "pluto" should be real effective.
[22:45:19] <cradek> I was trying to find good examples of "spotting" earlier (a type of metal decoration)
[22:45:35] <cradek> google was very little help
[22:45:42] <KimK> Ha, yeah. (But wait, now that it's 'not a planet' anymore... oh, nevermind)
[22:51:51] <KimK> Re Pluto not a planet anymore, funny image:
http://www.mathiaspedersen.com/portfolio/3d-portfolio/poor-pluto/
[22:57:37] <jepler> regardless of what it does, surely naming a program "the same letters as rm, but backwards" is a bad idea waiting to happen.
http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/mr/
[22:57:58] <jepler> (bonus points if 'mr' uses the -r flag; I haven't looked)
[23:15:30] <alex_joni> maybe -m ?
[23:15:36] <alex_joni> to keep it consistent :)