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[00:38:53] <CIA-34> EMC: 03cmorley 07v2.5_branch * r1e86cf5b1fda 10/src/emc/usr_intf/pncconf/pncconf.py: fix error in pncconf when there is no preference file
[00:42:59] <andypugh> Was that me?
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[01:52:01] <mozmck> I haven't been on here much for a while. Has anyone seen/discussed the new directions of ubuntu and gnome3?
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[02:01:34] <mozmck> I'm wondering if the new desktops (Unity and Gnome3) will be worse for EMC use. Has anyone here used either one yet?
[02:09:00] <cradek> hi mozmck
[02:09:06] <cradek> I haven't used either one
[02:09:07] <mozmck> howdy
[02:09:30] <mozmck> I haven't either, but so far I'm not liking what I read about either of them.
[02:09:31] <cradek> I assume everthing ubuntu makes "progress" on will make emc work less well, but that's just my prejudice (aka experience?)
[02:10:43] <mozmck> yeah. Both of these will require 3D for everything aparently. And they are not very configurable.
[02:11:29] <cradek> all the better to tie us to the nvidia binary blob driver
[02:13:00] <cradek> if they screw us up, we'll "just" jump to another distribution, I guess
[02:13:23] <cradek> or just stop upgrading - that strategy can work for a couple years.
[02:16:05] <mozmck> yeah. I wonder what debian will do. They have always been pretty stable, and the stable distro doesn't come out very often.
[02:16:37] <cradek> wonder how the kde rewrite is going, and where they'll end up
[02:16:55] <cradek> (I've never actually used kde)
[02:17:26] <mozmck> I don't know. I have loaded kde several times over the years, and after using for a few minutes to an hour or so I go back to gnome.
[02:17:52] <cradek> sounds like not a good sign
[02:18:09] <cradek> likewise, I try that thunderbird every few years for ten minutes
[02:18:37] <mozmck> I'm mostly just not used to it I think. I need to try it again sometime. There was a bit of a fuss over the latest kde, but I think it's supposed to be ironed out better now.
[02:19:10] <mozmck> What do you use for email? I used evolution for a year I guess but just switched back to thunderbird.
[02:19:31] <cradek> they rewrote it from scratch... consequently, I'm sure it sucked badly for a long time.
[02:19:39] <cradek> I still use mutt
[02:19:57] <cradek> its searching/limiting beat any gui mailreader I've ever seen
[02:20:05] <mozmck> I used netscape navigator forever, and so I'm more used to thunderbird as it is similar.
[02:20:10] <cradek> also, my choice of text mode editor beats any gui editor I've ever seen
[02:20:22] <mozmck> never tried a non-gui mail client.
[02:20:30] <mozmck> what's that?
[02:20:33] <cradek> ah, I've used them for a really long time.
[02:21:06] <mozmck> what text editor do you use?
[02:21:11] <cradek> if I want to see messages from you, I type lmoses[enter] (l is for limit)
[02:21:17] <cradek> there are two
[02:21:26] <cradek> it took me about 1 second
[02:21:34] <cradek> I don't know if thunderbird can even do that
[02:21:53] <cradek> I use vim for email and generic text files, and usually use xemacs for heavy programming
[02:22:42] <mozmck> I see. I have used neither very much, so I never can remember all the commands. I have to look up how to even get out of vim!
[02:23:09] <cradek> it's like that joke involving "we play both kinds of music here"
[02:23:42] <mozmck> thunderbird has a filter box at the top that you can type a word and it shows only emails containing that text.
[02:24:02] <cradek> ah, cool
[02:24:43] <cradek> http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-4.html#ss4.2
[02:24:54] <cradek> this is the list of things you can "limit" (filter) on in mutt
[02:25:36] <mozmck> There's also a "search all messages" box above that which searches all folders and looks like it's quite fast as well. The latest thunderbird will open messages in tabs now instead of a separate window which I like.
[02:26:23] <mozmck> ...such as the aforementioned search. It showed a preview of each message too.
[02:26:24] <cradek> maybe in a few more years I'll try it again :-)
[02:26:31] <mozmck> :)
[02:26:53] <cradek> it's hard to give up years of familiarity unless there's an obvious very strong benefit
[02:27:19] <cradek> also, I heavily rely on doing email and irc in screen, so I'd lose that benefit as well
[02:27:26] <mozmck> My problem is that I wind up forgetting too many commands on text mode programs that I don't use all the time, so they take me longer to use.
[02:27:57] <cradek> yes they sure can be less discoverable to the unfamiliar user
[02:28:03] <cradek> big time
[02:28:11] <mozmck> Yep, I know how that goes. So do you use mutt in windows? ;)
[02:28:25] <cradek> I don't ever use windows
[02:28:48] <cradek> if I'm on a desert island with windows, I'd run putty and ssh to my machine and run screen.
[02:28:56] <cradek> (that's what I do from my android phone)
[02:29:14] <mozmck> Didn't figure. I have to for work, but don't at home at all (except for some work related programming).
[02:29:26] <mozmck> heh.
[02:30:23] <mozmck> On that note, I was rather dissapointed with Atmel for making the latest version of their IDE based on Visual Studio (Windows only of course).
[02:30:52] <cradek> ouch. yay for the gcc cross compiler.
[02:31:04] <mozmck> yeah.
[02:31:05] <cradek> I've never used the avr ide either
[02:32:13] <mozmck> I used the avr32 ide based on eclipse, but the avr32 stuff is now part of the new IDE. The nice thing it gives you is good support for their programmer/debuggers.
[02:33:09] <cradek> that sounds nice. a remote debugger would be cool.
[02:33:33] <cradek> I'm just used to not have a debugger for microcontrollers I guess
[02:34:19] <cradek> I've never done a big project - always < 16k and often < 2k. it's really not hard to get that much C right...
[02:34:32] <mozmck> yeah, I have an JTAG ICE MKII, but I haven't used the debugger at all.
[02:36:26] <cradek> often I'm doing heavily timer dependent stuff, and I don't see how you can really debug it...
[02:37:51] <mozmck> huh. I don't even know how to use the debugger well at all. I debug by toggling pins, sends messages over serial or something like that.
[02:37:59] <cradek> yep, same here
[02:38:21] <cradek> I've hooked up an lcd just to get debug strings out
[02:38:29] <mozmck> you can tell a lot by toggling a pin and looking at it with a scope.
[02:38:34] <cradek> yep
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[04:43:48] <KimK> !later andypugh (sent via !later) Hi Andy. Scrolling back, from the context, I was guessing that "poisson rouge" means Red Herring? So I thought you might be amused by this:
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=poisson+rouge&sl=fr&tl=en#
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[05:04:42] <ve7it> cool.... hareng rouge!
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[15:31:07] * JT-Shop wonders why the stepper-gantry config is really a plasam/THC/external e-stop example?
[15:31:25] <JT-Shop> plasma
[15:31:51] <JT-Shop> oh with 2 parallel ports too
[15:32:08] <JT-Shop> is there any sense in having that config that confusing?
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[15:34:09] <psha> logger[mah]: .
[15:34:09] <logger[mah]> psha: Log stored at
http://emc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23emc-devel/2011-04-15.html
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[15:37:33] <psha> cradek: re: gnome3/ubuntu: why not to use xfce4 as desktop environment?
[15:37:54] <psha> it's easy to use, lightweight and don't need any gl goodies
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[15:42:26] <mhaberler> psha: hi! how are things?
[15:45:00] <mhaberler> cradek: would you be prepared listen while I tell how I currently would solve the 'several oword calls in one block' problem? I just dropped attempt #9 and am gearing up for #10
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[15:50:52] <psha> mhaberler: working in the office :(
[15:50:54] <psha> crap
[15:56:21] <cradek> mhaberler: I'll sure read what you type, but I don't know if I'll have useful input
[15:57:40] <mhaberler> remember the problem: you have 'GaTbM6' and maybe more on one line
[15:57:59] <mhaberler> now Tx and M6 (plus M61) are to be replaced by oword subs
[15:58:02] <cradek> sure
[15:58:10] <mhaberler> oword subs means : 1 call per block
[15:58:37] <mhaberler> next attempt to grund this:
[15:59:36] <mhaberler> when reading a line, and it contains a T,M6 or M61, I'll split them into several blccks, store them in _setup, and leave a pointer to the currently executing block there.
[16:00:06] <mhaberler> now, every block except the last will return INTERP_EXECUTE_FINISH which makes sure the block gets reschceduled
[16:00:40] <mhaberler> so I'll work through each block without having to reschedule within a block (which is next to impossible I learned after 4days)
[16:01:10] <mhaberler> so execute() will work through all pending blocks
[16:02:15] <cradek> here is where I start not knowing how any of it works (interp return codes to task, rescheduling, etc)
[16:02:24] <cradek> maybe psha can help better than I can
[16:02:26] <mhaberler> oh, ok
[16:02:39] <mhaberler> you're suspect because you worked on the MDI call issue ;-)
[16:02:55] <mhaberler> psha's plowing through his new job
[16:03:23] <Jymmm> mhaberler: farmer?
[16:03:32] <Jymmm> Lesbian?
[16:03:32] <mhaberler> code farmer
[16:03:40] <Jymmm> Lesbian coder?
[16:03:49] <mhaberler> slave galeon, lower deck, no window seat
[16:03:49] <Jymmm> lesbian code farmer?
[16:04:35] <psha> mhaberler: no windows seat :)
[16:04:38] <cradek> mhaberler: psha fixed that, not me
[16:04:51] <Jymmm> Now there's an idea...'Lesbian Code', has lots of potential there
[16:05:01] <mhaberler> psha: let me know when it's convenient for you to bounce an idea
[16:05:25] <Jymmm> Bouncing Lesbian Code Farmers
[16:05:42] <Jymmm> I'd pay to watch that!
[16:05:53] <mhaberler> Jymmm: sure you#re not a LISP program which escaped from MIT AI Lab?
[16:06:42] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Positive, no LISP script would know anythng about lesbos
[16:13:23] <psha> Jymmm: unless it was coded by Lesbian Coders (c)!
[16:13:53] <Jymmm> psha: But no lesbian coder would code in LISP =)
[16:14:14] <Jymmm> LIPS maybe, but not LISP
[16:14:20] <psha> mhaberler: i'm around but my brains were eaten by office bureucrates
[16:14:56] <psha> half of a day was spent sending dump emails to enable BOOTP and TFTP for two servers!
[16:15:01] <psha> without any success..
[16:15:12] <Jymmm> dump emails?
[16:15:23] <psha> dumb
[16:15:28] <psha> pump
[16:15:29] <psha> bump
[16:15:31] <Jymmm> oh, to admin
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[16:15:55] <psha> yea, to admins, to people responsible for blade servers etc...
[16:17:08] <psha> i was hired to ruin their small calm windows world :)
[16:17:32] <Jymmm> Since when does windows have BOOTP or TFTP ?
[16:17:46] <psha> don't know
[16:17:53] <psha> that's not my problems :D
[16:18:08] <psha> however i've already set up that on my office machine :)
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[16:18:23] <Jymmm> but why?
[16:18:34] <Jymmm> why on windows?
[16:18:47] <psha> i'm second linux user in whole organization :)
[16:19:37] <psha> all i need is bootp response from somewhere to pillage two windows servers
[16:19:40] <psha> and install debian there
[16:19:47] <psha> since i've no physical access to them
[16:20:04] <Jymmm> pxe boot
[16:20:22] <psha> bingo!
[16:20:29] <psha> for pxe boot i need BOOTP response :)
[16:20:33] <psha> with filename :)
[16:21:11] <psha> and if i'm not in same vlan with theese servers it's not possible for me to send them
[16:21:23] <psha> so i need to ask admins to configure their dhcp server
[16:21:49] <Jymmm> OR, just ask them to download debian, burn, and boot
[16:23:40] <psha> i already have everything for debian-installer to run unattended installs...
[16:24:26] <psha> and since later we'll need more server plundered it's better to acquire bootp
[16:24:52] <mhaberler> q on gcode order of execution: M61 is not in the order description in
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gcode/overview.html#_g_code_order_of_execution_a_id_sec_order_of_execution_a
[16:25:01] <mhaberler> I would assume it's the same order as M6?
[16:25:03] <Jymmm> Well, do ONE via cd, then set it up as boot server
[16:25:12] <Jymmm> for the rest
[16:26:20] <Jymmm> does anyone know anything about package design?
[16:26:34] <Jymmm> like interlocking tabs and such?
[16:26:34] <psha> heh, an option :)
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[16:27:41] <psha> Jymmm: most important thing about package design you have to remember: don't use RPM, use DEB!
[16:28:15] <Jymmm> psha: LOL, no n silly, packaging, as in cereal box
[16:28:43] <Jymmm> or chinese takeout box
[16:30:32] <mhaberler> folks - phun is phine but at a S/N ratio of 2dB it's becoming a bit defocused
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[16:40:46] <jthornton> is it possible to run a python program using M100 that will still see the Axis environment? like the simple g code generators if you open them up in Axis you can paste the g-code directly into axis...
[16:41:38] <psha> jthornton: what's 'Axis environment'?
[16:42:36] <JT-Shop> one second
[16:43:42] <JT-Shop> this was given to me by jepler when I started writing the simple g code generators
[16:43:43] <JT-Shop> IN_AXIS = os.environ.has_key("AXIS_PROGRESS_BAR")
[16:44:18] <JT-Shop> so if IN_AXIS is true then this code gets executed
[16:44:19] <JT-Shop> sys.stdout.write(self.g_code.get(0.0, END))
[16:44:31] <JT-Shop> and sends the generated g code into Axis
[16:45:12] <JT-Shop> if you run the python program from a terminal or as a M1xx IN_AXIS is false
[16:45:27] <mhaberler> try 'printenv' in the M100 - if you see IN_AXIS you#re good
[16:45:41] <mhaberler> (dont know if stdout is visible though)
[16:45:57] <JT-Shop> I did a print IN_AXIS and it is false
[16:46:44] <mhaberler> replace /IN_AXIS/AXIS_PROGRESS_BAR/
[16:47:23] <mhaberler> M100 would be a child of milltask and I dont know if gets the axis env keys
[16:48:08] <psha> JT-Shop: that's for 'filter' programs
[16:48:11] <psha> not for M-codes
[16:48:13] <JT-Shop> as a child of milltask would stdout be correct
[16:48:16] <mhaberler> moreover, they are different processes, so thats unlikely to work
[16:48:28] <psha> mhaberler: filter program are also forked
[16:48:29] <JT-Shop> that's what I needed to know
[16:48:32] <mhaberler> milltask stdout wont fo to axis
[16:48:38] <mhaberler> fo/go
[16:48:55] <mhaberler> psha: right, but from axis, not milltask
[16:49:32] <mhaberler> jthornton: what yould you want to do - run a program from mcode and pipe output to axis?
[16:50:04] <JT-Shop> one of the users on the forum does
[16:50:13] <mhaberler> link?
[16:50:35] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/component/option,com_kunena/Itemid,20/func,view/id,8712/catid,21/limit,6/limitstart,0/lang,english/
[16:52:07] <mhaberler> man, pyvcp and MDI - what a PITA
[16:52:13] <mhaberler> iits all in place in gladevcp
[16:52:15] <JT-Shop> lol
[16:53:05] <mhaberler> ok, referring to ngcgui?
[16:53:05] <cradek> M1xx can't generate gcode to run, if that's what he's asking
[16:53:34] <JT-Shop> that's what he was trying to do yes
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[16:53:54] <mhaberler> the gladevcp MDI widget does that, for instance.
[16:54:06] <JT-Shop> trying to refer him to ngcgui, yes
[16:54:26] <cradek> what's the big picture of what he's actually trying to do? I mean, what's the problem he's trying to solve?
[16:54:51] <psha> cradek: M1xx can generate code to run but emc won't be happy
[16:55:02] <JT-Shop> he wants to run the simple g code generators with pyvcp buttons and dump the resulting code into Axis
[16:55:07] <psha> it's kinda of replacing branch you are sitting on :)
[16:55:27] <psha> JT-Shop: it's possible but not easy
[16:55:35] <cradek> psha: it's not like the stdout of M1xx is executed or something
[16:55:36] <JT-Shop> instead of having to do File/Open for each time
[16:55:55] <psha> cradek: you have to reimplement Axis filter functionality
[16:56:08] <cradek> JT-Shop: so the whole thing is because he wants to use a button instead of file/open?
[16:56:08] <psha> catch stdout and load it into interp
[16:56:26] <psha> btw there is gladevcp stuff for such things
[16:56:27] <cradek> does he not know you can do this with file/open
[16:56:32] <JT-Shop> yea, just like when I wanted to add them to the menu :)
[16:56:46] <JT-Shop> yes he does know that file/open works
[16:56:57] <cradek> they get added automatically: you can use file/recently opened :-)
[16:57:35] <cradek> (maybe AXIS should grow something like touchy's macro button)
[16:58:10] <cradek> I suppose that's what the input filters can do, but you need each one to implement its own gui
[16:58:46] <psha> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=emc2.git;a=blob;f=lib/python/gladevcp/hal_filechooser.py;h=ec58da4071aa4918771256fc2b4b44c0a92a7f89;hb=HEAD#l174
[16:59:10] <psha> place EMC_Action_Open with predefined name and hook it into button
[16:59:46] <psha> it supports same filters as axis
[16:59:51] <psha> (code was stolen/rewritten)
[16:59:58] <cradek> bbl, lunch
[17:00:06] <JT-Shop> I'll be right over
[17:00:12] <JT-Shop> got enough?
[17:00:23] <cradek> no, just the loeftover half of yesterday's lunch
[17:00:30] <psha> :D
[17:00:32] <JT-Shop> ok I'll make do
[17:00:35] <cradek> loeftoeeveor
[17:01:03] <psha> JT-Shop: so if you(poster) may use 2.5+ there is solution :)
[17:01:21] <cradek> we oughta release that
[17:01:27] <JT-Shop> I think it is a piasdom for him
[17:06:05] <mhaberler> btw, this is Norbert driving his H&K BA20 with a owordsub toolchanger:
http://bilder.schechner.info/maschinen/videos/Video0002.3gp
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[17:32:11] <psha> mhaberler: nice :)
[17:32:26] <mhaberler> he's ahead of me..
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[18:06:35] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: nice
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[18:51:40] <the_wench> andypugh: KimK said (sent via !later) Hi Andy. Scrolling back, from the context, I was guessing that "poisson rouge" means Red Herring? So I thought you might be amused by this:
http://translate.google.com/translate_t?hl=&ie=UTF-8&text=poisson+rouge&sl=fr&tl=en#
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[21:09:45] <andypugh> In C, If I have a function that takes two **u32 parameters, is it OK to pass 0 in those places if I don't want to use them? (ie, the function can take both or one or the other arguments)
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[22:06:52] <alex_joni> andypugh: sure, if you test for that
[22:07:28] <andypugh> Good. (And yes, I was going to check :)
[22:07:52] <andypugh> check for (==0) or (== NULL) ?
[22:18:48] <alex_joni> they should be equal afaik
[22:18:55] <alex_joni> but it depends what you want to pass
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