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[01:31:58] <KimK> cradek: Hi, hope all is well there. As I look over the Mori Seiki Jr. files you sent, I do not see any 4th axis +/- jog inputs, and I expected to, since you have added your 4th axis. Any advice? If I have missed anything else, or if you have more recent files on your Mori, please let me know that too. For example, I saw a "lube low" input (068?) which I could not find in jr4.hal or touchy.hal.
[01:33:28] <KimK> cradek: I'm going back out to the shop to see if I can get a look at the top of the spindle for how to add the improved encoder you suggested. I'll be back in a while.
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[02:11:16] <cradek> KimK: I have never really used the 4th axis much since I got it working. It does jog with the wheel, though.
[02:11:48] <cradek> I think lube low shouldn't let it come out of estop, but I don't remember for sure.
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[03:44:31] <KimK> cradek: Thanks. Did you and Stuart get a multiple buy on 4th axis too? I see he has a pair over here, I have my eye on them for the Mori and the Sajo. Is that what you're running there?
[03:45:36] <KimK> It has a Fanuc yellow-cap motor on it.
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[11:54:53] <cradek> KimK: no, my 4th is a homemade retrofit of a 12" manual table.
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[11:57:18] <Jymmm> cradek: Have you played with the python module 'easygui' by chance?
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[11:59:06] <cradek> nope
[11:59:46] <Jymmm> http://easygui.sourceforge.net/
[12:00:13] <psha[work]> Jymmm: it's tk based :(
[12:00:34] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Is that a bad thing?
[12:00:50] <psha[work]> for me - yes
[12:00:57] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Why's that?
[12:01:14] <psha[work]> since after writing some tiny and small thing you'll try to expand it and hit it's internals
[12:01:52] <psha[work]> i don't understand tk at all
[12:02:36] <psha[work]> but if you are familar with tk that's not a problem
[12:02:55] <Jymmm> Ah, bummer. I'm just trying to find a simple GUI language. REBOL would have been great, had it been open source. It's partially free, but due to it's closed source, help/docs/etc are convoluted.
[12:03:08] <psha[work]> maybe wx?
[12:03:18] <psha[work]> i thought it's pretty simple
[12:03:52] <psha[work]> but have not used it from python, only from haskell
[12:04:30] <psha[work]> hm, it looks as complex as gtk and others
[12:04:37] <Jymmm> But isn't wx gui bastardization on top some other lang?
[12:05:03] <Jymmm> psha[work]: what looks complex?
[12:05:09] <psha[work]> lang? heh, most of gui's are implemented on top of C libraries :)
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[12:05:25] <Jymmm> psha[work]: what distro you on?
[12:05:27] <psha[work]> wx is layer on top of gtk/win32/something-from-mac
[12:05:31] <psha[work]> Jymmm: debian
[12:05:35] <Jymmm> hang on....
[12:07:47] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Try this...
http://www.maxvessi.net/pmwiki/uploads/Main/rebol.deb
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[12:09:14] <psha[work]> i've read examples
[12:09:39] <psha[work]> it looks like 'dialog' language used for adding user interaction to scripts
[12:09:40] <Jymmm> psha[work]: It's not the same, really.
[12:10:11] <psha[work]> same as what?
[12:10:20] <psha[work]> yes, it's not like gtk/wx/qt/tk
[12:10:26] <Jymmm> psha[work]: I wanted you to see the 'bubbles' example in real life.
[12:10:58] <psha[work]> it's more like whiptail
[12:11:06] <psha[work]> hm, wait a bit
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[12:14:04] <Jymmm> Mornin SWPadnos
[12:14:16] <psha[work]> Jymmm: amd64 :(
[12:14:21] <SWPadnos> hi
[12:14:32] <Jymmm> psha[work]: *sigh* sorry bout that.
[12:18:56] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Ah,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RVhBImcEAE
[12:20:30] <Jymmm> psha[work]: at 0:03 shows the 'bubbles' demo, and at 0:12 shows the source code to create it.
[12:20:55] <Jymmm> in 989 bytes
[12:22:40] <psha[work]> looks nice to draw ui
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[12:23:30] <psha[work]> but also it looks very (and only) targeted on GUI
[12:24:34] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Well, there's Rebol/View (gui) and Rebol/Core ($$$ cli). But For a GUI is such a tiny and simple thing is all I'm looking for.
[12:26:12] <Jymmm> psha[work]:
http://www.rebol.com/rebol-core.html
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[12:31:44] <psha[work]> hm, some intersting ideas implemented in a form suitable for a wide range of programmers
[12:31:57] <psha[work]> idea of dialects is nice
[12:32:30] <psha[work]> it's popular in ruby and i've used it with template haskell but both of theese are much harder then rebol
[12:33:22] <Jymmm> I love that I can code once and run on any platform too
[12:33:37] <Jymmm> and that it's DAMN TINY! 500KB installed
[12:34:26] <psha[work]> it's true for both pygtk, pyqt and pywx, all of them run accross platforms
[12:34:32] <psha[work]> but are too large
[12:34:42] <psha[work]> to bundle with ~100 sloc script :)
[12:36:15] <Jymmm> at 500KB, you could email someon an entire application
[12:37:38] <psha[work]> Jymmm: ah, i've unpacked rebol.deb and it's running fine
[12:37:43] <psha[work]> may you point me to bubbles example?
[12:38:49] <Jymmm> Should be under REBOL, exmaples
[12:39:29] <Jymmm> you can right-click on bubbles.r to view the source code
[12:42:39] <psha[work]> looks nice
[12:43:14] <Jymmm> psha[work]: For a GUI in 20 lines, I'd say so.
[12:43:50] <Jymmm> psha[work]: It's nothing over-the-top GUI wise, but it is a usable gui.
[12:44:39] <Jymmm> psha[work]: the site monitor is kinda cool too
[12:44:49] <Jymmm> iirc it's called monitor.r
[12:45:21] <psha[work]> not found
[12:46:48] <Jymmm> Site Monitor
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[12:51:06] <psha[work]> truly speaking bubbles is not as impressive example as some others
[12:51:34] <psha[work]> since bubbles only demonstrate that rebol/view has some (non understadable) shortcuts for generic operations
[12:51:35] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Graphically, I thought it was, but eh =)
[12:51:56] <psha[work]> and (which is more important) operations on graphical objects
[12:51:57] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Well, for the most part it's typeless for one.
[12:52:23] <psha[work]> general purpose GUI toolkits lacks such goodies
[12:52:36] <Jymmm> psha[work]: And the syntax doens't use () [] {}
[12:52:39] <psha[work]> in bubbles you just change bubble coordinates and it's reflected on the screen
[12:53:23] <psha[work]> that's really great for writing 'interactive' guis
[12:53:24] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Sure, but there's also a gradiant there as well. Not something you could do as "straight forward" in over langs
[12:53:40] <Jymmm> s/over/other/
[12:53:47] <psha[work]> in gtk gradients are easy to do
[12:53:58] <Jymmm> in 20 lines?
[12:54:15] <psha[work]> a bit more verbose, gimme some time
[12:54:20] <Jymmm> lol
[12:55:08] <Jymmm> psha[work]: At least on the M$ side, you can compile the .r files to stand alone EXE
[12:55:34] <Jymmm> self contained, so then you dont even need to install and there are no dependancies
[12:55:37] <SWPadnos> so, no 64-bit at all?
[12:56:29] <psha[work]> SWPadnos: it's working with ia32libs
[12:56:46] <SWPadnos> yeah, all the downloads said x86
[12:57:45] <SWPadnos> could be useful for the camera array GUI, if it can (a) call external libraries and/or (b) access hardware in any way (should work through file access, but who knows for USB and serial)
[12:57:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You can run in on your M$ box
[12:57:55] <SWPadnos> cool stuff though
[12:58:15] <SWPadnos> I'm thinking of deploying it on x64 boxes ... :)
[12:58:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm sure you can figure it out
[12:58:38] <SWPadnos> no I can't
[12:58:51] <SWPadnos> I need someone else to do it for me.
[12:58:52] <SWPadnos> wah
[12:58:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ask psha[work]
[12:59:14] <SWPadnos> psha[work], will you do all my work for me?
[13:01:19] <psha[work]> SWPadnos: sure :) if you do all my work for me :) however i guess we'll face some difficulties...
[13:01:29] <SWPadnos> hmmm. pobably
[13:01:33] <SWPadnos> see!
[13:01:35] <SWPadnos> probably
[13:01:47] <SWPadnos> maybe Jymmm should do all our work instead
[13:01:56] <psha[work]> hm, that's a great idea!
[13:02:16] <Jymmm> No problem, Got 200 years to wait ?
[13:02:22] <SWPadnos> all in favor say aye. aye
[13:02:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm. nope. back to work for me
[13:02:41] <SWPadnos> gotta run. see you guys later
[13:02:50] <Jymmm> hasta
[13:02:55] <psha[work]> SWPadnos: for camera array gui you may just draw it using glade and have small glue code to load camera configs to widgets
[13:03:16] <psha[work]> that's what i've done for two-camera's gui for emc
[13:03:22] <SWPadnos> hmm
[13:03:38] <SWPadnos> this is for 48 or more cameras, accessed via networked computers
[13:03:47] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/p/cnccutter.png
[13:03:53] <SWPadnos> possibly 240 cameras next year
[13:04:05] <SWPadnos> cool
[13:04:07] <psha[work]> left one is vivi testing driver
[13:04:26] <SWPadnos> ah, video cameras - I'm working with stills
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[13:18:32] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, and silver nitrate
[13:21:39] <psha[work]> Jymmm: 67sloc in python vs 44 sloc in R
[13:21:57] <psha[work]> http://psha.org.ru/tmp/bubbles.py
[13:22:14] <psha[work]> i've left gradients in full form without shortening
[13:22:31] <Jymmm> cool =)
[13:22:58] <psha[work]> that's why i think that bubbles is not that great example of rebol/view
[13:23:09] <Jymmm> psha[work]: Now do it without importing anything =)
[13:23:34] <psha[work]> heh, now do it without rebol :)
[13:23:45] <psha[work]> without rebol/view, using only rebol core :)
[13:23:56] <Jymmm> psha[work]: phuk that! LOL
[13:24:50] <psha[work]> sure they have better syntax for gradients and other stuff
[13:25:02] <psha[work]> but adding such things to cairo is a matter of ~10 lines of code
[13:25:14] <psha[work]> but adding nice object tracking is much harder task
[13:26:16] <Jymmm> psha[work]: I have no clue when it comes to python. My goal for years is to find a simple GUI language (like rebol)
[13:26:35] <Jymmm> I like the small compactness of it.
[13:27:38] <psha[work]> btw how's rebol dealing with external libraries?
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[13:28:58] <Jymmm> psha[work]: I really don't know. I was trying it out to create a GUI on OSX for my network tuner and there are attributes that are lacking a bit for OSX.
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[14:02:04] <psha[work]> Jymmm: btw have you considered html/js guis?
[14:03:25] <psha[work]> i guess thay may be simple but i've not used any of them
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[14:21:59] * JT-Shop wonders why the HAL Advanced Tutorial in before the Basic HAL info section in the HTML docs
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[14:37:26] <cradek> alphabetical order?
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[14:56:44] <JT-Shop> B after H?
[14:57:17] <JT-Shop> doesn't seem to be in any order
[14:57:35] <JT-Shop> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/
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[14:58:57] <jepler> docs/src/index.tmpl is a human-written file
[14:59:10] <jepler> you can reorder the html in it according to common sense
[14:59:24] <JT-Shop> thanks, I forgot about that file
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[21:30:01] <JT-Shop> I better not mess with it KimK might still be working on it
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[21:39:03] <KimK> JT-Shop: No, I pushed it, mess away! (Although I'm still fixing bugs in the text here and there.)
[21:39:30] <KimK> No, if you think the order is bad, maybe it does need to be fixed.
[21:39:59] <JT-Shop> seems to be in no logical order to me
[21:40:18] <andypugh> What be ye discussing?
[21:40:20] <KimK> The HTML is supposed to match the manuals so if the HTML is wrong, the PDFs are wrong too.
[21:41:00] <andypugh> By the way, I am looking at the xyza demo config, and the hal file is just bizarre.
[21:41:03] <JT-Shop> I've not looked at them in depth
[21:41:08] <KimK> Hi Andy. The v2.5 docs. I may have gotten the HAL section in the wrong order, JT is pointing out, and he is probably right.
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[21:41:43] <JT-Shop> andypugh: there are several configs that are bizarre and confusing
[21:41:46] <KimK> s/HAL section/HAL Manual sections/
[21:42:28] <andypugh> Indeed, and I can forgive the newsig, linksp, linkps mess. But that one has a load of ddt components to create velocity pis, that are not used as far as I can see.
[21:42:50] <KimK> andypugh: Suggestions and edits (and git patches!) are much appreciated.
[21:43:29] <andypugh> I don't have a very good hit-rate with git patches.
[21:43:53] <KimK> well, send straight text then.
[21:44:11] <andypugh> Creating them is not the problem.
[21:44:28] <KimK> Ah, I see. OK.
[21:45:12] <SWPadnos> I think those velocities are there as an example of what can be done with HAL
[21:45:16] <SWPadnos> you can scope or meter them
[21:45:39] <andypugh> It would be a good idea for someone to go through all the sample configs and modernise them, possibly culing a few.
[21:45:43] <SWPadnos> I thought some of those were also put into (something)vcp panels
[21:45:48] <SWPadnos> yes, that's true
[21:46:04] <andypugh> .. First find your "someone"
[21:46:06] <SWPadnos> on a separate note, any idea on where to stay in/near London?
[21:46:29] <SWPadnos> (other than the 1000 or so hotels :) )
[21:46:30] <andypugh> When?
[21:46:33] <SWPadnos> next week
[21:46:48] <andypugh> Visteurs is in London next week too.
[21:46:57] <SWPadnos> we'll get hotels, I guess I'm wondering what areas you think are nice
[21:47:01] <SWPadnos> oh, that's cool
[21:47:18] <SWPadnos> I might finally meet one of you ferriners :)
[21:47:52] <SWPadnos> I've got some friends in Ascot, but they haven't emailed me back yet
[21:48:00] <andypugh> I was going to head into town to catch up with him, but not till saturday at the earliest.
[21:48:15] <andypugh> Ascot is nice.
[21:48:21] <SWPadnos> we're traveling to London on Aug. 1, back on the 7th
[21:48:27] <SWPadnos> yep, I like his place
[21:48:37] <andypugh> Yeah, that matches Visteurs' times
[21:49:07] <SWPadnos> cool. maybe we can have tea or something (if we promise not to bore my wife too much)
[21:49:17] <andypugh> Where to stay really depends on what you are here to do. It does take quite a long time to get across London. It is rather big.
[21:49:49] <SWPadnos> yeah, I've noticed :)
[21:50:00] <SWPadnos> we stayed in Islington, which was nice enough
[21:50:10] <SWPadnos> close to Angel station, and plenty of good food nearby
[21:50:14] <SWPadnos> that was the last time
[21:50:36] <SWPadnos> also near Hyde Park/Bayswater, near Paddington, etc.
[21:50:55] <andypugh> Kensington is fairly posh.
[21:51:28] <SWPadnos> I suppose I should see what's going on there - that could influence where to stay
[21:51:39] <andypugh> To be honest, the whole centre is so eyewateringly expensive to buy property in that none of it is really scruffy.
[21:51:45] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:52:04] <SWPadnos> you're a bit closer to Birmingham, right?
[21:52:38] <andypugh> No, I am half an hour by train from London.
[21:52:58] <SWPadnos> oh, no kidding. I must be thinking of someone else, like archivist or something
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[21:53:15] <andypugh> Yes, he is that way.
[21:53:18] <andypugh> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=basildon&hl=en&ll=51.575363,0.159302&spn=1.273407,1.93634&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=19.438227,30.981445&z=9
[21:53:52] <SWPadnos> ah, ok. thanks
[21:55:08] <SWPadnos> not too far as the crow flies from another friend of mine (or where she used to live)
[21:55:16] <SWPadnos> in Biddenden
[21:55:35] <andypugh> Should joints[3] link directly to joint.3.motor-position-cmd?
[21:56:04] <SWPadnos> where?
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[21:57:03] <andypugh> Well, I am playing about with Visteurs' kins file from earlier on the mailing list, and I can't seem to get X-position to appear on axis.3... anywhere (sorry, I got completley the wrong name up there)
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[21:58:10] <SWPadnos> what's the name of the mail thread?
[21:58:30] <andypugh> The kins has joints[3] = pos->tran.x but no action is seen in axis.3
[21:58:54] <andypugh> 2 "X" axis profiles
[21:59:10] <SWPadnos> user or developer list?
[21:59:19] <andypugh> Ah, users.
[21:59:23] <SWPadnos> ok, I see it
[22:00:22] <SWPadnos> or part of it anyway
[22:00:49] <SWPadnos> I don't see any code or links to code in that short thread
[22:01:15] <SWPadnos> oh, now I see the original thread
[22:02:19] <andypugh> It seems to do much of what is wanted, and I am actually looking at it for a slighlty different forum thread.
[22:02:42] <andypugh> my version of the file is rather simpler.
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[22:08:32] <SWPadnos> I don't know about directly connecting joints[] to HAL pins. I think it won't work, since HAL pins are pointers to data, rather than just data
[22:08:37] <SWPadnos> gotta run
[22:09:18] <andypugh> I don't think we are doing that.
[22:09:47] <andypugh> Just rearranging the correspondence between axes and joints.
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