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[01:13:24] <CIA-95> EMC: 03andypugh 07v2.5_branch * r6850e0c07390 10/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Add support for the Mesa self-configuring Smart Serial (SSLBP) cards
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[03:59:46] <mhaberler> jthornton: reading back I saw you had issues building emc - any help I can give?
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[06:02:26] <mhaberler> alex_joni: online?
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[06:39:32] <CIA-95> EMC: 03mhaberler 07master * rbf13b0b5de52 10/src/Makefile: build/Makefile: include debugflags.h in HEADERS
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[10:55:55] <jthornton> jepler: thanks
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[11:03:23] <jthornton> is there a list somewhere of dependencies needed for master or how do you use the buildbot repository?
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[11:34:45] <mhaberler> jthornton: got it to work? what was the issue?
[11:35:04] <jthornton> missing libboost-python-dev
[11:35:10] <jthornton> yes, it works now
[11:35:13] <mhaberler> good
[11:36:28] <mhaberler> I have a patch for configure etc so that doesnt happen anymore but I wait until Seb is back
[11:37:01] <jthornton> ok, thanks
[11:37:11] <jthornton> it had me confused for a bit
[11:37:57] <jthornton> is index.html not hand coded anymore? I don't see it in docs/html/
[11:39:19] <jthornton> ah ha there is the remapping html... damm hard to find it but I did
[11:40:16] <mhaberler> I noted what the demos do in
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RemappingStatus - may you'd want to work through them first to get the idea
[11:41:07] <mhaberler> I need to split that manual into 'toolchange etc' and 'remapping reference', its still a hidgepodge
[11:41:13] <mhaberler> i/o
[11:42:30] <jthornton> ok, thanks I'll read the demos first
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[11:59:03] <jthornton> mhaberler: I've been wanting to ask you if when in feed hold would it be possible to reverse the path of the tool somehow then when feed hold is released resume from the current location?
[11:59:47] <mhaberler> uh
[12:00:24] <jthornton> might be useful for EDM or clearing swarf
[12:00:26] <mhaberler> I gotta try feed hold some day.. explain to me how you'd use it, and how you want it to work?
[12:01:49] <mhaberler> turning on feed-hold just sets F0, right?
[12:01:57] <mhaberler> in effect I mean
[12:02:02] <jthornton> I don't know
[12:02:18] <jthornton> if that is the case then my idea is no good
[12:02:50] <jthornton> I assumed it did a bit more than that I guess
[12:02:55] <mhaberler> not necessarily.. are you suggesting a move away from workpiece in feedhold, with a return capability would be a good idea?
[12:03:35] <jthornton> anyway for an EDM machine needs to move ahead on the path until the voltage is wrong then back up a bit then resume
[12:04:09] <jthornton> kind of like a plasma torch height control but on the XY axis instead of the Z
[12:04:10] <cncbasher> feedhold on my commercial rigs , just freeze everything at that point
[12:04:35] <mhaberler> can you jog in feedhold (on your commercial rig)?
[12:05:08] <cncbasher> no it just holds position on all axis
[12:05:21] <cncbasher> and stops spindle
[12:05:37] <cncbasher> release feedhold and it carrys on
[12:05:58] <jthornton> on my BP it just sets F0 and the spindle stays on
[12:06:26] <cncbasher> i'd love an wire EDM facility too !
[12:08:28] <cncbasher> the definition of feedhold is to stop all axis
[12:08:53] <cncbasher> so i presume it's sliightly different depending on type of machine
[12:10:00] <cncbasher> i'd take feedhold to be more of a Pause function and then start again if pressed from same position
[12:10:13] <jthornton> mhaberler: you have been into the guts of EMC is EDM possible?
[12:10:32] <jthornton> yea, I just had a crazy idea without thinking it through
[12:10:51] <mhaberler> how is that different from plasma THC?
[12:11:08] <cncbasher> iv'e been thinking on the EDM side of things too
[12:11:40] <jthornton> for a wire (and I'm not any expert) it has to follow the XY path and reverse a small amount along that path iirc
[12:12:00] <cncbasher> in the wire edm the wire is moved backwards to the direction of travel in small increments
[12:12:03] <mhaberler> can it reverse at feed rate and then move forward at feed rate again?
[12:12:21] <mhaberler> an absolute amount, or until current drops?
[12:12:39] <cncbasher> untill current drops is my understanding
[12:13:50] <cncbasher> so in effect the wire moved back and forth in the same axis movement as it has just made
[12:13:53] <mhaberler> hm, need to read motion to see how coordinated moves are done and wether those could be backed up while a pin drops
[12:14:44] <cncbasher> so i thought a read ahead and a read back buffer would do it , in simple terms
[12:14:52] <jthornton> I think that would be all an EDM needs
[12:15:05] <jthornton> XY for wire and Z for plunge EDM
[12:15:07] <mhaberler> I rather would look into backling up in the current feed move
[12:15:42] <cncbasher> then be monitoring the wire voltage and current to feedback control
[12:15:50] <mhaberler> and enable backup trrough a HAL pin or something, ored with wire-current-on
[12:16:14] <mhaberler> anded I mean
[12:16:18] <jthornton> the current feed move would be XY for wire and Z for plunge so yes that would work
[12:16:34] <mhaberler> whatever the move vector points at
[12:16:45] <jthornton> yep
[12:16:50] <cncbasher> yes i would say so
[12:17:18] <mhaberler> the THC is semi-related, right?
[12:18:58] <cncbasher> yes that deals with z axis only i believe and does not have or need previous positional info
[12:18:59] <jthornton> the THC takes over the Z axis from EMC but the mechanism is the same if the voltage is too high lower, if too low raise
[12:19:33] <cncbasher> where as edm would need to react to positional axis
[12:19:38] <mhaberler> maybe a 'reverse-move' pin in motion, together with a reverse-feedrate-multiplier would solve edm and thc
[12:19:42] <jthornton> but there is no feed move going on in Z while you cut
[12:20:21] <mhaberler> oh, I see
[12:20:22] <cncbasher> edm is more interactive to axis feed and position
[12:21:07] <cncbasher> i.e it needs to follow traj paths
[12:21:08] <mhaberler> hm, interesting problem
[12:21:36] <jthornton> for plasma you move to the pierce position, fire the torch off, wait for pierce delay, move Z to cut position, then start moving XY while keeping voltage correct by offsetting Z
[12:21:41] <cncbasher> think of the wire vibrating in the direction of cut
[12:22:08] <cncbasher> but only in the cut direction
[12:22:27] <mhaberler> I can see that working within a single move; when there are many small moves when say a circle or spline is approximated this might be way more complex
[12:22:52] <cncbasher> and using the voltage and current feedback loop to control the vibration distance and feetrate
[12:22:57] <cncbasher> feedrate
[12:23:18] <cncbasher> yes i agree
[12:23:40] <jthornton> yes, it would have to back up more than one move perhaps
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[12:24:26] <cncbasher> their was a few messages on the forum over edm , but no real ideas i think
[12:24:31] <mhaberler> but even within that restriction, it could be useful
[12:24:48] <cncbasher> but i'm willing to spend some time on it
[12:24:55] <mhaberler> I dont remember cutting Z circles with EDM
[12:24:58] <mhaberler> in school
[12:25:28] <cncbasher> using a sinker edm or wire ?
[12:25:33] <mhaberler> restriction would be 'within the limits of the current straight feed move'
[12:25:35] <mhaberler> sinker
[12:25:45] <cncbasher> yea the simple way
[12:25:58] <cncbasher> wire edm is much more complex
[12:26:20] <mhaberler> thats 30+ years back for me.. any good overview for left-handers on wired EDM?
[12:26:42] <cncbasher> think of a bandsaw cutting a complex shape
[12:27:03] <cncbasher> hey i'm left handed !
[12:27:06] <cncbasher> haha
[12:27:15] <mhaberler> the wire is moving, or like in foam cutting?
[12:27:21] <cncbasher> yes
[12:27:40] <cncbasher> both top and bottom have independant moves
[12:28:04] <cncbasher> exactly like foam cutting but in a vertial axis
[12:28:26] <mhaberler> any video link?
[12:28:40] <cncbasher> theirs quite a few on youtube
[12:28:41] <jthornton> the one I saw only the table moved and the wire was fixed
[12:31:00] <cncbasher> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBueWfzb7P0
[12:32:10] <mhaberler> well, but that just shows top and bottom in a synced move
[12:32:39] <mhaberler> oh. part2..
[12:32:44] <cncbasher> the wire moves to the feed rate , but you can have either both top and bottom sync together
[12:32:53] <cncbasher> or as seperate axis
[12:33:10] <cncbasher> so you end up with an angled cut
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[12:33:40] <jthornton> lol, that is the same video I was watching
[12:34:07] <cncbasher> haha theirs quite a few videos , keep you going for a few hours
[12:34:22] <jthornton> takes me hours to download one
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[12:35:21] <cncbasher> i presume the hedgehogs move faster than your broadband
[12:35:35] <jthornton> lol, yea
[12:36:03] <cncbasher> i'm spoilt with a 50meg connection
[12:36:26] <cncbasher> going to a 100 in a few month
[12:36:48] <jthornton> I pay for 1 meg and get much less
[12:38:35] <mhaberler> I love his lab coat.. it's like Siemens techies 30 years ago
[12:40:43] <mhaberler> unfortunately he doesnt talk about the backup process
[12:41:23] <cncbasher> btw do you know anyone using a touch screen and emc as a client diskless
[12:41:50] <cncbasher> i'll look further and let you know
[12:43:47] * jthornton wonders why the EMC2 Configuration Selector does not show any subdirectories like /sim/remap/?
[12:44:32] <cncbasher> search EDM Wikipedia
[12:44:37] <mhaberler> uh, I guess these directories would have to be moved up, good idea - I barely use it
[12:44:44] <mhaberler> thanks
[12:44:46] <jthornton> well lets see it starts with the emc script
[12:45:12] <mhaberler> just cd into the target dir and 'emc <the inifil>
[12:45:28] <cncbasher> theirs a section on wire edm and wire movement
[12:45:32] <jthornton> that is my favorite way to start a sample config
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[12:50:07] <jthornton> yuck it is a tcl file pickconfig.tcl
[12:50:17] <jthornton> but grep found it for me
[12:51:11] <mhaberler> hm, feedhold kicks in post kinematics, at the joint level
[12:51:53] <jthornton> what is that?
[12:52:27] <mhaberler> well say you do a G1 x,y,z - this generates a line; now that line is passed to motion
[12:53:24] <mhaberler> from there it's transformed by the kinematics forward transform into joint space (which is trival for cartesian machines but non-trivial for say puma )
[12:54:00] <mhaberler> and feedhold just stops joint moves
[12:54:33] <mhaberler> I looked for feedhold as a starting point for backing up a move
[12:55:07] <jthornton> ok
[12:56:49] <jthornton> it looks like the number of levels of subdirectories is hard coded into pickconfig.tcl around line 283
[12:57:00] <mhaberler> but for lines it doesnt look too wild.. it would have to remember the cartesian starting point, start the line, and post kinematics check for the current-drop thing; if that happens, compute cartesian pos from current joint pos, generate a vector back to starting point
[12:57:13] <mhaberler> look, I'll just move the dirs - no pain
[12:57:38] <jthornton> I was just curios why it did that
[12:59:01] <jthornton> that makes sense, also a wire EDM is not moving at high speeds like say a plasma torch is/does
[12:59:47] <jthornton> and it looks like there are other configs with sub directories too
[13:00:02] <mhaberler> hm.. mine..?
[13:00:17] <jthornton> classicladder is one
[13:00:28] <jthornton> common has one
[13:00:39] <mhaberler> different piano player;-)
[13:00:58] <jthornton> gladevcp has many
[13:01:13] <mhaberler> blush
[13:01:35] <jthornton> plasma-thc has one
[13:02:10] <jthornton> and many more... so really the config picker needs a little fix instead of moving things
[13:04:00] <cncbasher> mhaberler> see
http://www.wire-edm.com/whatswedm.html
[13:04:13] <cncbasher> near bottom of the page
[13:09:07] <mhaberler> bbl
[13:09:15] <jthornton> ok thanks
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[13:58:06] <mhaberler> hm, looks like reverse circle is doable too
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[14:04:13] <mhaberler> thinking about the move backup, going back more than one move. unlimted backup likely isnt needed and a waste, but maybe one could mark a position with some g/m code as a backup point, and backing would work 'up to here'
[14:05:27] <cncbasher> i would say probably the last 5 moves per axis
[14:05:54] <cncbasher> after all it's very small movement involved
[14:06:13] <mhaberler> thats also an option - set a window size of moves
[14:06:52] <cncbasher> the working gap is a matter of a few thou at most
[14:07:07] <mhaberler> size doesnt matter in this case; count does
[14:07:19] <cncbasher> yes understood
[14:07:59] <Jymmm> CNC is like sex... There is no reverse, and size does matter!
[14:08:49] <cncbasher> haha
[14:08:53] <cncbasher> love it
[14:08:55] <mhaberler> the term 'spindle stiffness' gets whole new meaning
[14:09:29] <Jymmm> ad ball bearings, and lube. you gotta have lube!
[14:09:49] <mhaberler> smoke is not a good sign
[14:10:40] <Jymmm> and you always wear protective gear!
[14:11:34] <Jymmm> Now, compare women to materials ! lol
[14:12:21] <Jymmm> blone ~= aluminum? common, avg, everyone has some, etc
[14:12:49] <Jymmm> oh, and recyclable too
[14:14:20] <cncbasher> oh good can i weight her in for a new upto date batch
[14:14:57] <Jymmm> cncbasher: Sure, but you get pot metal back instead =)
[14:15:07] <Jymmm> cncbasher: or plastics
[14:16:20] <cncbasher> at least it's not swarf
[14:17:21] <Jymmm> cncbasher: Well if you get lots of swarf going everywhere, you weren't wear the proper protective clothing
[14:18:05] <cncbasher> no just open the door and dive in
[14:18:48] <Jymmm> and beware of sluge
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[14:28:25] <jepler> jthornton: in the top level of a checkout, $ debian/configure -r; dpkg-checkbuilddeps
[14:28:35] <jepler> [or "all" instead of -r]
[14:28:51] <jepler> [er, "sim", not "all"]
[14:48:14] <jthornton> jepler: thanks, so sim will add everything as if you did not have EMC installed?
[14:48:31] * jthornton just reading the /debian/configure file
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[15:40:36] <jepler> neither debian/configure nor dpkg-checkbuilddeps install anything
[15:40:53] <jepler> debian/configure creates the file debian/control, which is used by dpkg-checkbuilddeps to list the not-yet-installed dependencies
[15:41:21] <jepler> but remember, these are the dependencies to build the package, so they may include things that some users don't desire (stuff to build pdf docs) or stuff that some users do desire (stuff to build html docs)
[15:43:14] <jepler> if there are unmet build dependencies, you get a line like this:
[15:43:14] <jepler> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: rtai-modules-2.6.32-33-generic libreadline-dev
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[17:23:59] <mhaberler> JT-shop: I have a remapping home exercise question for you (100 points credit ;-) design a G-code (straight moves xyz only, no circles), based on G38, which would backup on probe and run again until done)
[17:24:58] <mhaberler> actually tjaz
[17:24:59] <mhaberler>
[17:25:32] <mhaberler> actually that would be a neat example for the manual; of course it's dead slow but I guess edm is, too
[17:27:17] <robh__> dont forget us that have 4axis EDM sinkers :D
[17:27:41] <mhaberler> thats an extra 100 points credit then
[17:29:53] <robh__> not too often we spark in all directions, but xya is very common when orbiting the electrode to polish and size a part if talking about a EDM sinker not wire
[17:31:12] <robh__> i saw your m19, looks grate thanks, i have not had chance to try yet too bussy here working & no play
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[17:37:26] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: I'm sure I don't understand the challenge fully yet
[17:38:29] <mhaberler> well, edm looks a bit like probing - coordinated move, probe contact or current too high, backup, retry
[17:38:49] <mhaberler> actually most of the job in motion is covered by probing
[17:39:03] <mhaberler> except circular probes
[17:40:00] <mhaberler> you could do that as an oword procedure, and then make it a g-code
[17:40:48] <robh__> indeeed, probe input swopped for a current/voltage input trigger but covers a few more of the gcode moves but u might get stuck anywhere in the circular move path
[17:41:14] <robh__> feeding back in fine as u will detech when u are burning/cutting again somehow
[17:41:24] <mhaberler> yea, that approach is too simple, also you can backup beyond the starting point
[17:41:45] <mhaberler> cant backup, that is - motion history is needed
[17:42:09] <mhaberler> but for sinking out a broken taper it looks ok
[17:44:43] <robh__> sinking coveres most needs in EDM, edm we do define a safe out path that it changes too when it gets realy stuck in a hole, say if u are doing a undercut
[17:45:04] <mhaberler> aja
[17:45:14] <robh__> the cnc sinker we havem, it keeps trying to resink untill it gives up and then come out to its safe hight
[17:45:20] <archivist> you have the gcode so reversal could pe possible in exact path mode without history
[17:45:54] <mhaberler> interesting
[17:46:05] <robh__> also u have a safe collection detection mode for "rapid" move, so if electrode touch a part it stops motion
[17:47:12] <robh__> Wire i am not sure, someone who has worked CNC wire would have to chip in, how it safe retreats
[17:47:40] <JT-Shop> I think the wire breaks and all stop
[17:47:50] <JT-Shop> iirc what my buddy said
[17:48:08] <robh__> so u dont need to rember the way out fully, cut wire, get out and try again
[17:48:43] <archivist> have to remember the move and wire insert point though
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[17:49:10] <robh__> prob defined in a sub some where maybe, so just a call it and u have it
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[17:49:34] <mhaberler> that was the exercise ;-)
[17:49:44] <mhaberler> no cheating!
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[17:52:09] <robh__> sorry
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[20:04:00] <jthornton> jepler: thanks for the explanation of configure and dpkg-checkbuilddeps
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[21:23:06] <tomp> "make: Failed to remake makefile `Makefile'." :( new lucid live install, new build tools per wiki
[21:23:07] <tomp> http://pastebin.com/m1HzUx9u
[21:26:04] <tomp> jepler said "To cause 'make' to proceed, you can tell it that the file exists and is older than any other file: make -o emc/kinematics/mmxavg.h"
[21:26:17] <tomp> but what file, make just entered the dir & puked ?
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[21:28:11] <tomp> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/emcinfo.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=FailedToRemakeMakefile
[21:28:42] <mhaberler> what does make --debug=m,b say ?
[21:28:55] <tomp> will try
[21:29:38] <tomp> File `boost/mpl/if.hpp' does not exist.
[21:29:50] <tomp> looks like more more deps
[21:30:06] <mhaberler> we're still missing the configure check for libboost-python-dev
[21:30:11] <mhaberler> will come this weel
[21:30:13] <mhaberler> week
[21:30:29] <mhaberler> now do 'sudo apt-get install libboost-python-dev'
[21:31:49] <mhaberler> see section 15
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/remap/structure.html#_build_notes_hardy_8_04
[21:33:16] <tomp> ok, thx much, got the lib boost and now reading link
[21:33:54] <mhaberler> do a runtests after building - should say 69 or 70 tests ok
[21:33:55] <tomp> this is on new lucid 10.04 tho, that link is Hardy
[21:34:06] <mhaberler> section 15 is just before that
[21:34:23] <tomp> gotcha
[21:34:57] <tomp> i can only do 1 think even halfassed at one time, but would lie to discuss edm if you go any further
[21:35:19] <mhaberler> repeat so I understand
[21:36:00] <tomp> i'm easily sidetracked, but want you to now I'm interested in your recent edm discussions
[21:36:08] <mhaberler> i see
[21:36:19] <tomp> i have to get back to the make before i loose track ;)
[21:36:37] <mhaberler> yep
[21:36:47] <tomp> i have maybe 40 to 45 years in sink hole wire and grinding edm
[21:36:55] <mhaberler> ah
[21:36:55] <tomp> bye for now thanks
[21:38:09] <mhaberler> let me know if runtests worked, then you're off to the demos in described in
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?RemappingStatus
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[21:44:34] <tomp> after 'sudo apt-get install libboost-python-dev' same make error make --debug=m,b -->File `boost/mpl/if.hpp' does not exist.
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[21:45:26] <tomp> synaptic says its installed
[21:45:37] <mhaberler> cd src
[21:45:39] <mhaberler> rm -rf depends
[21:45:50] <mhaberler> ./autogen.sh
[21:45:56] <mhaberler> ./configure ...
[21:45:58] <mhaberler> make
[21:46:29] <mhaberler> this stuff remembers mistakes.. its called 'caching'
[21:47:35] <tomp> ( tomp writes note mha sez do it again ;)
[21:48:28] <mhaberler> such is the life of early adopters
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[21:48:57] <mhaberler> I've refrained from announcing on -users until the dust settles, and it hasnt yet
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[21:58:01] <mhaberler> in case you did './configure --enable-documentation', I'll see you around tomorrow - that outstrips my ttl for the night
[21:58:50] <tomp> :) didnt, but thanks anyway
[21:59:04] <mhaberler> compile ok?
[21:59:16] <tomp> not the fastest laptop maybe,,, oops make is done
[21:59:22] <tomp> good
[21:59:26] <mhaberler> runtests ok?
[21:59:52] <tomp> setuid, then tests
[21:59:57] <mhaberler> yep
[22:01:57] <tomp> cd cd emc2-dev . scripts/emc-env<tab> runtests running now
[22:02:14] <tomp> Runtest: 70 tests run, 70 successful, 0 failed + 0 expected :)
[22:02:17] <tomp> thanks!
[22:02:23] <mhaberler> excellent, you're off to the races
[22:02:27] <mhaberler> cu
[22:02:31] <tomp> bye
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