#emc | Logs for 2005-03-25

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[00:01:01] <robin_sz> coo ... ever heard of a "canadian cross-compile" ...
[00:01:08] <jmkasunich> no
[00:02:04] <robin_sz> thats when you compile a cross-compiler for platform C, that will be run on platform B, and actually build it on platform A
[00:02:30] <jmkasunich> that hurts my head
[00:02:47] <robin_sz> apparently it can take a while ...
[00:03:05] <robin_sz> * robin_sz wonders just how many architectures gcc supports
[00:03:20] <jmkasunich> lots
[00:03:37] <robin_sz> Les Newell had just done a canadian cross ...
[00:03:42] <robin_sz> buil on linux
[00:04:03] <robin_sz> a Hitachi H8 compiler to tun on 'doze
[00:04:14] <robin_sz> GCC, obviously
[00:04:31] <jmkasunich> is H8 an 8-bitter?
[00:04:41] <robin_sz> guess so
[00:04:48] <robin_sz> its got an 8 in its title
[00:05:03] <jmkasunich> I thought gcc generated code for 32 bit and bigger machines only?
[00:05:11] <robin_sz> apparently not
[00:06:44] <robin_sz> PDP11 and Atmel AVR for isntance are supportred by GCC
[00:15:59] <jmkasunich> I wonder what size an int is when compiling for an 8-bit CPU
[00:16:20] <jmkasunich> 8 bit ints would break a lot of C code
[00:16:35] <jmkasunich> but 32 bit ints would be dog slow
[00:18:48] <les> I got the stuff paul wanted on the wiki
[00:19:09] <les> never used one before
[00:19:14] <les> was not very hard
[00:22:45] <robin_sz> thats good
[00:23:13] <robin_sz> Wikis seem to be the way to go for community documentation projects
[00:24:35] <les> yeah
[00:25:29] <les> I think I now have a part time graphic artist
[00:25:43] <les> I went to a small store to get a six pack
[00:26:02] <les> the guy had a portfolio he was showing to someone
[00:26:08] <les> really goos stuff
[00:26:15] <les> good
[00:26:23] <robin_sz> coo
[00:26:32] <robin_sz> good graphics guys are hard to find
[00:26:39] <robin_sz> we have an Autralian.
[00:27:02] <robin_sz> might as well have hired a 'roo.
[00:27:07] <les> I immediately commisioned a poster size pencil drawing of Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton for the music room
[00:27:16] <robin_sz> heh
[00:27:29] <les> he had one already
[00:27:34] <les> it was great
[00:28:10] <les> when I was 17...I listened to purple haze
[00:28:19] <robin_sz> uh huh ...
[00:28:21] <les> at 51 I listen to purple haze.
[00:28:29] <robin_sz> good choice :)
[00:28:54] <robin_sz> I still listen mainly to Led Zeppelin
[00:29:01] <robin_sz> never tire of it
[00:29:11] <Jymmm> Best band of ALL time... Pink Floyd
[00:29:15] <robin_sz> oh, note to Americans
[00:29:17] <les> some of the remasters are fair audio quality
[00:29:24] <robin_sz> Tyre => big black rubbery ting
[00:29:29] <les> I remember back then
[00:29:33] <robin_sz> tire => to grow weary
[00:29:39] <les> studio sound could be pretty good
[00:29:41] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:29:52] <les> but that sound never got to the consumer
[00:30:08] <robin_sz> I guesss they still have the 24t
[00:30:28] <jmkasunich> got a Linux question
[00:30:43] <jmkasunich> I want to d/l a BDI iso to my other linux box
[00:30:45] <robin_sz> I saw some of the tape machines I used to maintain going to auction a while back
[00:31:00] <robin_sz> fetshed nothing :(
[00:31:00] <jmkasunich> problem: /home is on a partition that doesn't have enough room
[00:31:10] <robin_sz> uh huh.
[00:31:16] <jmkasunich> on the other hand, / has plenty of space
[00:31:30] <robin_sz> uh huh
[00:31:37] <jmkasunich> naive solution, make a new dir in /, called /isos or something
[00:31:43] <robin_sz> nope
[00:32:03] <jmkasunich> I said that was the naive solution, I knew it wasn't good
[00:32:07] <robin_sz> dont make stuff in /
[00:32:12] <robin_sz> right
[00:32:13] <robin_sz> ok,
[00:32:39] <robin_sz> #mkdir /var/isos
[00:32:54] <robin_sz> chown john:john /var/isos
[00:33:02] <jmkasunich> nope :-)
[00:33:03] <robin_sz> cd ~john
[00:33:14] <robin_sz> ln -s /var/isos
[00:33:15] <jmkasunich> /var is on the same disk as /home
[00:33:20] <robin_sz> oh
[00:33:26] <jmkasunich> (ie, the not big enough one)
[00:33:43] <robin_sz> well, where is the Big One mounted
[00:33:56] <jmkasunich> wait one...
[00:34:00] <robin_sz> df
[00:34:48] <robin_sz> you usually put /var on the biggest disk
[00:34:58] <robin_sz> thats data usually, thats what grows
[00:35:26] <jmkasunich> that was my first linux install, I followed a book (bad move) that said to use lots of partitions
[00:35:41] <jmkasunich> separete ones for var, tmp, home, etc
[00:35:52] <robin_sz> yeah, not always a good plan for a single disk installation
[00:36:07] <robin_sz> on a multi-disk install, thats the way to go
[00:36:16] <jmkasunich> I didn't know better
[00:36:32] <jmkasunich> this box has fewer partitions, but the CD burner is on the other one
[00:36:40] <robin_sz> I just let the debianinstaller do whatever the hell it likes, its usually right :)
[00:36:50] <jmkasunich_1> ok,
[00:37:06] <jmkasunich_1> df gives:
[00:37:09] <jmkasunich_1> Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
[00:37:24] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hda2 46668 5786 38473 14% /boot
[00:37:32] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hda3 4625220 1698044 2692228 39% /
[00:37:39] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hdb3 1035692 550184 432896 56% /home
[00:37:48] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hdb2 1027800 42332 933260 5% /var
[00:37:55] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hda1 4922280 923416 3998864 19% /mnt/winc
[00:38:03] <jmkasunich_1> /dev/hdb1 2100360 477592 1622768 23% /mnt/wind
[00:38:26] <jmkasunich_1> the /mnt/winX drives are the windows partitions (this box is dual boot)
[00:38:43] <robin_sz> /usr/share/isos maybe
[00:39:15] <jmkasunich> I had actually thought about exactly that, but decided to ask first
[00:39:37] <robin_sz> probably a good choice in lieu of /var
[00:40:46] <jmkasunich_1> would /usr/local/isos be reasonable as well?
[00:40:56] <robin_sz> hmmmm
[00:41:38] <robin_sz> guess it would be ok, it doesnt feel quite right somehow
[00:42:28] <jmkasunich_1> there are a lot of directories in /usr/share already... I was kinda reluctant to stick a non-standard on into all that
[00:42:39] <jmkasunich_1> but I guess to some extent that's what share is for?
[00:42:56] <gezr> yeah share is an okay location
[00:43:11] <robin_sz> yep
[00:43:30] <gezr> share and local are both alternatives, share for outside stuff, local for that specific machine
[00:43:50] <robin_sz> /var/isos woudl have been a better choice, youcould always symlink it to /usr/share/isos
[00:44:00] <jmkasunich_1> well this is certainly local
[00:44:09] <gezr> var is the various directly
[00:44:10] <jmkasunich_1> (download and then burn on this box)
[00:44:34] <gezr> but its also logs home, and repositories, so an iso in var is fine
[00:44:47] <robin_sz> and you want to keep them after too?
[00:44:59] <robin_sz> so not /tmp?
[00:45:03] <jmkasunich_1> for a little while at least
[00:45:07] <robin_sz> 'k
[00:45:10] <jmkasunich_1> (until Paul makes a newer one)
[00:45:35] <robin_sz> buy a bigger disc, mount it on /var/isos
[00:45:42] <robin_sz> mount someting via nfs ...
[00:45:45] <jmkasunich_1> I have bigger disks on other machines
[00:45:47] <robin_sz> so many choices :)
[00:46:04] <jmkasunich_1> don't want to mess with nfs... just want to start a download
[00:46:24] <jmkasunich_1> does /tmp get cleared out automatically?
[00:46:31] <robin_sz> well, /usr/share/isos is calling you then :)
[00:46:45] <robin_sz> on reboot it can get cleaned
[00:46:56] <robin_sz> dependig on your system
[00:47:53] <robin_sz> I may, or may not know someone who admin'ed a system for a client, who failed to pay a large (4 figure) invoice ...
[00:48:31] <robin_sz> apparently they had a catastrphic disk failure about a year later .... crap written all over the disks, weird huh?
[00:48:56] <robin_sz> I guess it was just part of a yearly clean up or someting
[00:49:50] <jmkasunich_1> hmmm... while I got the linux guys here.... just noticed something strange about ls that has bugged me before
[00:50:11] <robin_sz> insufficient options on the command line?
[00:50:23] <jmkasunich_1> suppose the current directory has lots of files, including say "isos" and "isomore"
[00:50:40] <robin_sz> those are directories?
[00:50:58] <jmkasunich_1> I can do "ls -l i*" to list just the info for those two files (assume for now they are files)
[00:51:04] <SWPadnos> you want "ls -ld" - long listing, but don't descend into directories
[00:51:20] <SWPadnos> or - ls -ld is*
[00:51:26] <jmkasunich_1> ok, you already figured out where I was going
[00:51:29] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[00:51:30] <SWPadnos> yep :)
[00:51:50] <jmkasunich_1> thanks
[00:51:55] <jmkasunich_1> hi ray
[00:52:07] <SWPadnos> but it's true - there aren't enough commandline options for ls:)
[00:52:07] <rayh> Evening John.
[00:52:13] <robin_sz> * robin_sz remebers a cartoon sketch
[00:52:14] <SWPadnos> hi there
[00:52:26] <robin_sz> from Monty python and the holy grail
[00:52:44] <robin_sz> on the bridge with the wizard who asks them three questions etc
[00:52:45] <SWPadnos> give me the first two lines ...
[00:53:00] <SWPadnos> Blue - no, green aaaaaaahhhhhhh
[00:53:33] <robin_sz> 3rd question "name the 3 lower case letters that are NOT valid arguments to the GNU ls command" ..
[00:53:40] <robin_sz> it was a geek cartoon ;)
[00:53:42] <SWPadnos> DOH!
[00:53:56] <rayh> How you guys doing tonight?
[00:54:08] <robin_sz> im alright
[00:54:10] <SWPadnos> Just fine
[00:54:12] <robin_sz> its the rest of em I worry about
[00:54:15] <rayh> European or asian sparrow?
[00:54:21] <jmkasunich_1> tired and depressed :-(
[00:54:30] <robin_sz> African or european
[00:54:37] <rayh> Depressed?
[00:54:42] <robin_sz> and it was a swallow.
[00:54:48] <rayh> Oh. Sorry. Must be oldtimers.
[00:54:51] <jmkasunich_1> work...
[00:54:55] <Jymmm> Capistrano
[00:55:04] <rayh> All that time in Milwaukee?
[00:55:05] <robin_sz> sigh... depressed is not good.
[00:55:19] <robin_sz> been there, done that :(
[00:55:33] <rayh> My upgrade from 4.14 to 4.18 did not fare well.
[00:55:39] <jmkasunich_1> brand new product... sold before it's ready (as always)... delivery needed before production test cell is ready
[00:55:51] <SWPadnos> I *hate* that
[00:55:53] <robin_sz> sigh.
[00:56:01] <robin_sz> I know where you went wrong
[00:56:05] <jmkasunich_1> so we travel to wisconsin to test it on a development dyne (displacing other folks and pissing them off)
[00:56:08] <SWPadnos> That's the main reason I left my previous company
[00:56:15] <SWPadnos> (which I co-founded)
[00:56:18] <jmkasunich_1> and then the second (of 7) units tested blows up
[00:56:20] <robin_sz> you didn't plug the marketing guys into it during testing
[00:57:25] <robin_sz> you get the same crap in software ...
[00:57:28] <rayh> Ouch.
[00:57:34] <robin_sz> marketing go out and sell stuff
[00:57:36] <jmkasunich_1> software doesn't blow up
[00:57:45] <SWPadnos> software just blows things up :)
[00:57:59] <robin_sz> then come back with "but we told them it can do xxxxx .. we had to to get the sale"
[00:58:16] <rayh> Been there.
[00:58:18] <A-L-P-H-A> damn... I think my newish (few months old) chair is broken.
[00:58:32] <A-L-P-H-A> the backrest doesn't stay fixed when pushed against.
[00:58:37] <robin_sz> jmkasunich_1: did you test all 7?
[00:58:42] <jmkasunich_1> nope
[00:59:00] <robin_sz> was there enough left to see what failed on #2
[00:59:12] <jmkasunich_1> we _think_ the reason it blew up is that the gate wiring harness (made by a new vendor in Mexico) didn't use the properly twisted wire
[00:59:32] <robin_sz> ahh
[00:59:45] <jmkasunich_1> I saw the bad harnesses on first thing Monday morning... they _should_ have been sent back to the vendor
[00:59:50] <rayh> The old noise on the gates thing eh?
[01:00:18] <robin_sz> big drives?
[01:00:27] <jmkasunich_1> but NO, we have a schedule to meet, need to ship these drives right now, can't wait for new harnesses, they'll be OK, twisting isn't THAT important, is it?
[01:00:35] <jmkasunich_1> BOOM
[01:00:42] <SWPadnos> urk - damned marketing "engineers"
[01:01:00] <jmkasunich_1> yeah, big.. the same 690V 700A ones I was talking about a couple weeks ago...
[01:01:11] <SWPadnos> This isn't a 40MW motor drive, is it?
[01:01:19] <SWPadnos> oh - too low a voltage
[01:01:22] <jmkasunich_1> not THAT big ;-_
[01:01:34] <robin_sz> "Ok, heres how it is .. we dont want to test this yet, but youve sold it ... soooooo ... guess who gets to sit on top while we test it?"
[01:01:42] <SWPadnos> I worked on a power supply for a 40MW motor experiment
[01:02:20] <jmkasunich_1> that's big
[01:02:31] <SWPadnos> yeah - and the PS was only 4 MW
[01:02:39] <SWPadnos> (still almost as big as my house)
[01:02:43] <robin_sz> wtf would need a motor that big?
[01:02:45] <jmkasunich_1> what kind of motors? AC, DC
[01:02:55] <SWPadnos> I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you :)
[01:02:59] <SWPadnos> AC
[01:03:05] <robin_sz> hydro?
[01:03:07] <jmkasunich_1> 40MW = 60,000 HP
[01:03:09] <robin_sz> ok
[01:03:10] <SWPadnos> AC 3 phase
[01:03:12] <jmkasunich_1> wind tunnel?
[01:03:21] <SWPadnos> High power military application
[01:03:22] <jmkasunich_1> I know there are several wind tunnels with that kind of HP
[01:03:31] <robin_sz> coo
[01:03:45] <robin_sz> Id have thought a turbofan woudl have been more appropriate
[01:03:48] <SWPadnos> not that I had anything to do with that part - I waas just the DSP programmer
[01:04:02] <SWPadnos> (sub-sub-sub contractor)
[01:04:48] <jmkasunich_1> we were comiserating in the airport yesterday... "why did we have to become power engineers... other engineers can work on stuff, and if something goes wrong, you just reboot and carry on... why does our stuff always blow up and need a week to rebuild?"
[01:05:10] <jmkasunich_1> we decided we'd rather design those blinking LEDs in kids shoes
[01:05:16] <robin_sz> heh
[01:05:21] <SWPadnos> at least it doesn't take down the local electrical grid if it's screwed up :)
[01:05:31] <robin_sz> or burn your hair
[01:05:37] <SWPadnos> (which this power supply nearly did)
[01:05:46] <jmkasunich_1> I believe it
[01:05:54] <jmkasunich_1> we cleared a couple of 1100A fuses
[01:05:58] <SWPadnos> oscillation on a 4MW supply is bad
[01:06:30] <jmkasunich_1> what was the input voltage? 4160 or something?
[01:06:36] <SWPadnos> 13200
[01:06:41] <jmkasunich_1> nice
[01:07:08] <SWPadnos> they only had a 2MW feed from the power company, so they could only test either full voltage or full current, but not both :)
[01:07:10] <jmkasunich_1> what did they use for power semiconductors? I don't think IGBTs go that high
[01:07:15] <SWPadnos> thyristors
[01:07:23] <SWPadnos> (6 inches across or so)
[01:07:25] <jmkasunich_1> series stacks I bet
[01:07:50] <SWPadnos> actually, it was for a DC motor
[01:07:55] <SWPadnos> you should have seen the output caps
[01:08:04] <jmkasunich_1> I've seen photos of the stacks used for a big DC transmission line tie
[01:08:09] <SWPadnos> (sorry - like I said, I'm the DSP guy :) )
[01:08:51] <jmkasunich_1> the biggest motors I worked with were about 9000HP or so... rolling mill motors in a steel mill
[01:09:03] <jmkasunich_1> six of them on one room
[01:09:09] <robin_sz> yikes
[01:09:12] <SWPadnos> dang
[01:09:27] <jmkasunich_1> but we didn't control the main power with semiconductors, we controlled the motor and generator fields
[01:09:30] <Jymmm> jmkasunich next tiem you design shoes with blinking lights, can you install a remote mute button too?
[01:09:42] <SWPadnos> more like a remote destruct button
[01:09:48] <jmkasunich_1> just use Robin's laser
[01:10:03] <Jymmm> Nah, more fun watching them squirm around after a 50KV shick
[01:10:09] <Jymmm> shock
[01:10:32] <jmkasunich_1> robin_sz: it was a _big_ room ;-)
[01:11:08] <jmkasunich_1> there were actually 4 AC motors (23KV), driving 12 DC generators, which in turn fed the 6 motors
[01:11:47] <SWPadnos> Big power equipment is pretty amazing stuff
[01:11:56] <SWPadnos> (never head-butt a tank)
[01:12:16] <jmkasunich_1> yeah... it's kinda fun, when it's not blowing up... but scary at the same time
[01:12:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:12:35] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: you knwow this from experience?
[01:12:48] <SWPadnos> My wife and I were guests on a day cruise on an aircraft carrier - now *there's* some heavy equipment!
[01:12:50] <SWPadnos> yes, I do
[01:13:19] <Jymmm> I've been on the USS Enterprise and the USS Nimitz
[01:13:20] <SWPadnos> 60 tons of steel doesn't move for a head, even one as hard as mine
[01:13:29] <SWPadnos> This was the Harry S. Truman
[01:13:52] <jmkasunich_1> heck, even 1 ton of steel has that certain immovability about it
[01:13:59] <gezr> hmm, just read an article about a 42hp single phase motor
[01:14:07] <SWPadnos> It's pretty cool to look out the hangar doors and see the ocean at a 30 degree angle
[01:14:33] <jmkasunich_1> some co-workers are working on drives for a hybrid version of this: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/hmett.htm
[01:14:34] <SWPadnos> yes - I suppose head-butting a Bridgeport would be bad as well :)
[01:15:09] <SWPadnos> The HEMTT was pretty cool when it came out (I happened to be in the National Guard at the time)
[01:16:04] <jmkasunich_1> the 60% grade part blew my mind
[01:16:16] <Jymmm> Shouldn't this chips have heatsinks on them? http://www.hobbycnc.com/driverboards/4aupc/4aupc.htm
[01:16:38] <SWPadnos> transmission oil: 38 quarts!!!
[01:16:46] <SWPadnos> engine 30 quarts
[01:16:48] <SWPadnos> damn
[01:17:00] <SWPadnos> the thing needs to carry its own refinery
[01:17:09] <jmkasunich_1> well, the hybrid won't need 38 qts in the tranny... it has a generator instead of a tranny
[01:17:22] <SWPadnos> makes more sense
[01:17:40] <SWPadnos> Plus the weight of a mil-spec transmission for 8-wheel drive has to weigh something
[01:17:45] <jmkasunich_1> 4 drives and motors, one per axle
[01:18:08] <jmkasunich_1> and a bank of supercaps for surge capacity
[01:18:26] <gezr> thats the type of thing ide be interested in working on
[01:18:38] <Jymmm> gezr: Join the Army
[01:18:55] <SWPadnos> or not
[01:19:06] <jmkasunich_1> I had a little input on the supercap controller - basically a bidirectional AC-DC converter, to match the supercap voltage to the AC power bus
[01:19:09] <SWPadnos> as an army tech, you can change the oil and work on the brakes
[01:19:10] <anonimasu_> hehe
[01:19:11] <gezr> Jymmm : cant
[01:19:16] <anonimasu_> I dont think they design them..
[01:19:26] <Jymmm> gezr: Join the Army and see the world, on your belly, in the cold and muddy ground!
[01:19:33] <gezr> Jymmm : I cant
[01:19:40] <gezr> reject
[01:19:41] <SWPadnos> the mantra for fixing anything complex is "send it to depot
[01:19:42] <rayh> UW Madison's got a torroid plazma generator (mini sun) cap bank is 10' x 200' x 40'
[01:19:45] <gezr> I got bad lungs
[01:19:53] <Jymmm> gezr Ah
[01:20:03] <SWPadnos> well - the navy might take you :)
[01:20:13] <anonimasu_> lol
[01:20:14] <jmkasunich_1> rayh: I think I'll stand WAYYYY over here, thank you very much
[01:20:16] <gezr> I had an air force waiver
[01:20:32] <gezr> but I didnt want to mess with it, everyone at meps was an absolute retard
[01:20:36] <SWPadnos> A friend of mine has no hearing in one ear
[01:20:45] <rayh> five minutes to charge it.
[01:20:50] <SWPadnos> the recruiters were calling everyone in the graduating class
[01:20:50] <Jymmm> gezr: MEPS is always that way... SOP
[01:20:53] <jmkasunich_1> stood too close to a 10x200x40 cap bank I bet
[01:21:10] <gezr> Jymmm : im talking about fellow recruits,
[01:21:16] <Jymmm> gezr: MEPS is always that way... SOP
[01:21:18] <SWPadnos> as soon as they heard that he had monaural hearing they'd hang up
[01:21:27] <SWPadnos> *except* for the navy
[01:21:34] <SWPadnos> "we can work around that"
[01:21:41] <anonimasu_> lol
[01:21:42] <SWPadnos> so he hung up on them
[01:22:02] <anonimasu_> braille radios
[01:22:10] <SWPadnos> sonar
[01:22:10] <gezr> Jymmm : im from a military family, if they need me, they will call me to do something for them(them being the military)
[01:22:14] <SWPadnos> oh, wait
[01:22:41] <Jymmm> you could use a transducer on sonar
[01:22:52] <SWPadnos> they often do
[01:23:03] <Jymmm> for someone deaf
[01:23:31] <gezr> wouldnt sound examination better suit someone who is blind?
[01:23:39] <SWPadnos> that's the joke :)
[01:23:47] <anonimasu_> gezr: probably
[01:24:07] <SWPadnos> but highly sensitive microphones and computers do the job nicely as well
[01:24:34] <gezr> you know whats comming on tv in 30? csi
[01:24:36] <gezr> whooohooo
[01:25:16] <gezr> im trying not to get down tonight, im on my second beer, got one left from the 12 pack I picked up 2 weeks ago
[01:26:21] <gezr> I did however, turn 2 tubes for a nice 142" length at I think 8" or so dia, and then 2 at 134" turned lenght with a 9.90 dia
[01:26:52] <gezr> it used to take em a day to do almost 2
[01:27:47] <SWPadnos> 9.90 dia - that's gotta be a heavy piece of stock
[01:27:56] <SWPadnos> (or was that mm?)
[01:28:15] <gezr> 10 od, 9 id half inch wall thickness, 151 inches long
[01:28:28] <SWPadnos> fark - what metal?
[01:28:44] <gezr> a513 i belive
[01:28:51] <gezr> 1026 or so
[01:29:03] <gezr> dom seamless tube
[01:29:08] <Jymmm> http://www.alliedelec.com/CustomerService/Forms/Literature.asp
[01:29:53] <gezr> SWPadnos : they only get squrilly when I have to turn the little 6inchers, that are 110 long
[01:29:59] <SWPadnos> 700 pounds or so?
[01:30:04] <SWPadnos> yeah - oh so little :)
[01:30:12] <rayh> got any clues that might help me troubleshoot thunderbird?
[01:30:21] <gezr> rayh : on win or lin?
[01:30:22] <SWPadnos> try better wine
[01:30:38] <gezr> SWPadnos : im not sure how much they weigh, never picked one up
[01:30:51] <SWPadnos> no - that's what the winch is for :)
[01:31:12] <rayh> lin
[01:31:20] <gezr> SWPadnos : largest part I currently turn, well I dont have to turn the od, its over 15 inches, about 150 long,
[01:31:31] <SWPadnos> rayh: what's the trouble?
[01:31:44] <SWPadnos> too long for my garage
[01:32:00] <SWPadnos> (at least, with all the stuff in there right now)
[01:32:19] <rayh> < mozilla-thunderbird -v says it's fine. Just doesn't display.
[01:33:13] <rayh> Same dl worked fine upstairs on ma'
[01:33:16] <rayh> s machine.
[01:34:14] <SWPadnos> Hold on one sec - I'm installing now
[01:35:57] <rayh> thanks.
[01:39:21] <SWPadnos> well - it installed and runs fine here - let me check a couple of things
[01:40:32] <rayh> Gotta tell you. I kept /home/ray on a separate partition.
[01:40:54] <rayh> there is a .m..z-thunderbird directory.
[01:41:04] <SWPadnos> well - it does take roughly 10 seconds to come up
[01:41:07] <rayh> Perhaps I just need some sort of config command.
[01:41:14] <SWPadnos> (on a celeron 500 with 512M)
[01:41:18] <rayh> Not at all here.
[01:42:13] <SWPadnos> if you just run it, what happens - do you get any messages, or just nothing?
[01:43:01] <rayh> ray@henrynet:~$ mozilla-thunderbird -v
[01:43:01] <rayh> selected locale: en-US
[01:43:02] <rayh> (null) Mozilla-Thunderbird 1.0, Copyright (c) 2004 mozilla.org
[01:44:14] <SWPadnos> and when you do it without the -v ?
[01:44:38] <rayh> Just returns the prompt.
[01:45:01] <SWPadnos> no selected locale message or anything?
[01:45:48] <SWPadnos> silly question, but you are running X aren't you? :)
[01:46:32] <rayh> Right. From 4.18
[01:46:37] <jmkasunich_1> nah, he's running thundebird in "lynx emulation mode"
[01:46:42] <SWPadnos> OK - just had to be sure :)
[01:47:07] <SWPadnos> I'm running it on the console, and with a Cygwin/X remote login
[01:47:14] <rayh> Never now about that rayh...
[01:47:27] <SWPadnos> can you log into your wife's machine and run it on that machine (from this one)?
[01:48:07] <rayh> Now wire there yet.
[01:48:20] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:48:49] <rayh> no no
[01:49:04] <rayh> Typoing 101 practice
[01:49:34] <SWPadnos> youpass :)
[01:49:38] <SWPadnos> me too, I guess
[01:52:45] <SWPadnos> nothing in dmesg or similar places?
[01:54:44] <rayh> nothing at all.
[01:54:52] <rayh> Seems tbd is happy as a lark.
[01:55:05] <rayh> Just took to much invisible juice.
[01:55:33] <SWPadnos> processes show up with ps or top?
[01:56:23] <rayh> * rayh is going away to try some drastic measures. Slege hammer.
[01:56:33] <SWPadnos> careful now :)
[01:56:36] <rayh> Two moz-thunder procs and a run-mozilla.
[01:57:23] <SWPadnos> can you alt-tab to them?
[01:59:12] <rayh> ?
[02:00:11] <SWPadnos> within KDE, you can use alt-tab to switch between applications
[02:00:36] <SWPadnos> if it's minimized or on another desktop or something, it may just not be visible, but still running fine
[02:00:39] <rayh> No they don't show there.
[02:00:53] <SWPadnos> are you on desktop #1?
[02:01:05] <rayh> 2,3,4
[02:01:22] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:02:09] <SWPadnos> well - alt-tab only switches between apps on the same desktop, but the other apps still show up in the panel
[02:02:19] <SWPadnos> so if it's not there, there's no window associated with it
[02:02:49] <rayh> I see that. Thanks for the new keystrokes.
[02:03:20] <rayh> Looks like the tbird is multithreaded.
[02:03:27] <SWPadnos> surw
[02:03:29] <SWPadnos> sure
[02:03:32] <rayh> kill one and kills them all.
[02:03:38] <SWPadnos> that's a good sign
[02:04:41] <SWPadnos> It may have something to do with the initial account creation / import wizard
[02:06:11] <rayh> That's what I'm thinking.
[02:09:18] <jmkasunich_1> jmkasunich_1 is now known as jmkasunich
[02:09:51] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I can't help much other than doing speedy net searches at this point - I don't use thunderbird :)
[02:10:14] <jmkasunich> looks like he used the sledgehammer
[02:10:23] <SWPadnos> apparently :)
[02:13:00] <jmkasunich> god I'm such a packrat
[02:13:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:14:06] <SWPadnos> It's hard to throw stuff away if it could be useful someday
[02:14:16] <jmkasunich> I have no idea why I can't bring myself to throw away these old hard disk platters....
[02:14:19] <SWPadnos> hi again
[02:14:25] <jmkasunich> maybe cause they're so shiny ;-)
[02:14:27] <SWPadnos> frisbees!
[02:14:29] <rayh_> Got it mozilla-thunderbird -profilemanager
[02:14:43] <SWPadnos> ah - or -P, I think
[02:15:35] <jmkasunich> and the little aluminium rings that were spacing them apart
[02:17:48] <SWPadnos> weird - shortbread cookies taste odd with mint tea
[02:19:46] <rayh_> catch you later.
[02:19:51] <SWPadnos> see ya
[02:20:27] <jmkasunich> I wonder how well BDI-4.18 works on a SCSI system?
[02:20:52] <SWPadnos> shouldn't have any problems
[02:20:59] <SWPadnos> have you tried downloading 4.20?
[02:21:22] <jmkasunich> I'm in the middle of downloading 4.18... didn't see 4.20
[02:21:38] <SWPadnos> ah - I can give you a link to my mirror if you like
[02:21:46] <jmkasunich> ok
[02:22:00] <SWPadnos> http://www.cncgear.com/EMC/BDI/
[02:22:37] <jmkasunich> do you know what is different between 4.18 and 4.20?
[02:22:48] <SWPadnos> we can probably put that on the mirrors page - I think the bandwidth usage won't kill me
[02:22:55] <jmkasunich> (I'm only 7% thru the 4.18 download)
[02:22:55] <SWPadnos> not exactly, no
[02:23:06] <SWPadnos> do you have a high speed connection?
[02:23:15] <jmkasunich> DSL - 384K
[02:23:36] <SWPadnos> OK - where are you downloading from now (and are you saturating your connection)?
[02:23:48] <jmkasunich> wildrice.com
[02:24:20] <SWPadnos> if you're not getting at least 45KB/sec, you'll probably be better off with mine
[02:24:28] <jmkasunich> running about 36-48K/sec, sometimes as low as 28
[02:25:15] <SWPadnos> can you pause / resume?
[02:25:24] <jmkasunich> running wget, so yes
[02:25:41] <SWPadnos> well - try pausing, start BDI 4.2, and if it's faster, kill the 4.18 download
[02:28:38] <jmkasunich> if wget is to be believed, yours is running at 76K/sec _AND_ the other one is still running (but it slowed down noticably)
[02:28:53] <SWPadnos> hmm - I'd be skeptical
[02:29:02] <SWPadnos> (considering your pipe is 48K/sec)
[02:29:20] <SWPadnos> unless there's compression involved
[02:29:41] <jmkasunich> well, my pipe is whatever my ISP gives me... I imagine if loading permits, they might not throttle me to 384
[02:29:57] <SWPadnos> true enough - even G.lite is 1.5Mbit
[02:30:14] <SWPadnos> or 1.0-2.0, I guess
[02:31:05] <jmkasunich> the original one has dropped back to about 20K/sec, but yours is pretty steady at 70-75
[02:31:13] <SWPadnos> cool
[02:31:31] <jmkasunich> I hope the two wget's aren't swapping packets or something
[02:31:58] <SWPadnos> It's a hosting service, so I don't know what their cap is (I think Alex got 350K/sec at one point)
[02:32:18] <SWPadnos> they should be able to keep their data to themselves :)
[02:33:11] <jmkasunich> I stopped the first one, the second is now doing 95K woo hoo!
[02:33:24] <SWPadnos> cool - only 100 minutes or so then :)
[02:34:12] <jmkasunich> trying to decide what if any changes I should make to the box before I install
[02:34:39] <jmkasunich> it's a former HP server, with really crappy video on the motherboard (servers don't run X)
[02:35:01] <SWPadnos> hm - I'd put in an old PCI video card
[02:35:15] <jmkasunich> I have several Matrox Millenniums here, I like em
[02:35:50] <jmkasunich> and might as well take out the HW RAID card... seems like overkill
[02:35:52] <SWPadnos> 4.20 has kernel 2.6.10 and the appropriate RTAI, vs. 2.6.9 on 4.18
[02:35:56] <SWPadnos> yep
[02:36:02] <SWPadnos> the Millennium should be good
[02:36:16] <SWPadnos> not too fast these days, but still excellent quality and good driver support
[02:36:30] <jmkasunich> cool - 2.6.10 is the version that my recently arrived Linux Device Drivers book covers
[02:36:36] <SWPadnos> just throw on the 4M upgrade, if you have one :)
[02:37:04] <jmkasunich> I think I have an 8M Millennium here... I know I have several 4M ones
[02:37:36] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich digs thru boxes
[02:37:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:37:56] <SWPadnos> I still have one of those in my server
[02:38:53] <jmkasunich> darn, 5 4M ones, but no 8M
[02:39:36] <SWPadnos> 4M should be fine - just don't go over 1280x1024@24 bit :)
[02:39:57] <jmkasunich> I want to run 1600x1200
[02:40:08] <SWPadnos> then I guess you're stuck at 16-bit color
[02:40:31] <SWPadnos> (is this a Millennium or a G200?)
[02:40:35] <jmkasunich> I guess I can upgrade later... how does one handle that with Linux (installing a new card/drivers after the initial install)
[02:40:47] <SWPadnos> well - it's a PITA
[02:40:49] <jmkasunich> ordinary millennium I think
[02:40:59] <SWPadnos> especially when you throw in X configuration
[02:41:03] <jmkasunich> the chip is an MGA-2164WP-C
[02:41:11] <SWPadnos> OK - did those go to 1600x1200?
[02:41:23] <jmkasunich> not sure, I don't think so
[02:41:40] <SWPadnos> I don't think they can go beyond 60 Hz at the highest res
[02:42:19] <jmkasunich> I have an LCD monitor, so 60Hz is probably ok
[02:42:24] <SWPadnos> Ah
[02:42:28] <jmkasunich> (my one big computing purchase for the year)
[02:42:53] <SWPadnos> you need the IBM T221 plus Matrox QID controller
[02:43:08] <jmkasunich> what
[02:43:16] <SWPadnos> 3840x2400 resolution LCD, 22 inch, 204ppi
[02:43:17] <jmkasunich> what's that, a four headed one?
[02:43:24] <SWPadnos> quad head card to drive the one monitor
[02:43:29] <jmkasunich> wow
[02:43:33] <SWPadnos> yeah
[02:43:44] <SWPadnos> I was bummed earlier this year
[02:43:56] <jmkasunich> I have a nice LCD, but not that nice... Sony 201, 20.1"
[02:43:59] <SWPadnos> I had no money, and one came up for sale on eBay
[02:44:10] <SWPadnos> it sold for $2050, the regular price is around $7500
[02:44:14] <SWPadnos> :(
[02:44:45] <jmkasunich> back when I got the monitor (December) I shopped a little for suitable graphics cards
[02:45:17] <jmkasunich> I wanted DVI output at 1600x1200, didn't really care about gaming performance, and wanted to spend not much over $100
[02:45:25] <jmkasunich> wound up with information overload
[02:45:33] <SWPadnos> yeah - there's a lot out there
[02:46:18] <jmkasunich> the box I'm gonna do the new install on has dual CPUs, so if I someday get around to compiling a kernel with SMP support, it will be pretty nice
[02:46:27] <jmkasunich> maybe I should spend some money on a video card
[02:46:52] <SWPadnos> you'll want a nVidia card - they're the best supported in Linux at this point
[02:47:16] <jmkasunich> of course, 2x600MHz is still less than the $399 Micro-Center el-cheapo Celeron machine
[02:47:19] <jmkasunich> sad isn't it
[02:47:23] <SWPadnos> very
[02:47:32] <SWPadnos> Wal-Mart is about the cheapest you can get
[02:47:37] <SWPadnos> (and least expensive)
[02:47:49] <jmkasunich> this box wasn't cheap
[02:47:56] <jmkasunich> (originally)
[02:48:01] <SWPadnos> not with the HP badge on it
[02:48:13] <jmkasunich> dual hot-pluggable SCSI bays with 18.2G drives in each one
[02:48:54] <jmkasunich> plenty of room for isos ;-)
[02:49:03] <SWPadnos> if you want more of them, go to http://www.retrobox.com/
[02:49:12] <jmkasunich> but no way to burn them... to fit it in 2U height, they used a laptop style CDROM drive
[02:49:13] <SWPadnos> lots of drive arrays there, cheap
[02:49:38] <SWPadnos> replace it with a modern DVD+-RW laptop drive
[02:50:51] <jmkasunich> I have no interest in DVDs, but replacing it with a CD burner might be a good idea
[02:51:01] <SWPadnos> that too :)
[02:51:12] <jmkasunich> In general, I shy away from laptop stuff... tends to be non-standard in subtle ways
[02:51:28] <SWPadnos> true - but drives are the most standard part of a laptop
[02:51:37] <SWPadnos> (the carriers aren't, but the drives are)
[02:51:44] <jmkasunich> that's good to know
[02:52:12] <jmkasunich> looks easy enough to remove (I've got the unit sitting here with the top off)
[02:53:07] <SWPadnos> should be just a few screws
[02:53:12] <jmkasunich> one major problem with recycled servers as personal computers... noisy fans
[02:53:29] <SWPadnos> yeah - don't I know it
[02:53:52] <SWPadnos> my server is an Antec KS-011B case with triple redundant power supplies
[02:54:23] <SWPadnos> each has its own fan, plus 2 in the front of the case, 2 more in the back, and another one on the power entry
[02:54:29] <SWPadnos> plus the dual CPUs
[02:54:39] <SWPadnos> it has 19 drive bays though :)
[02:54:59] <jmkasunich> this one has three that suck in thru the drive bays, then exhaust across the mainboard and cpus
[02:55:15] <jmkasunich> one more for the PS
[02:55:34] <jmkasunich> no individual CPU fans, the airflow from the main fans hits them directly
[02:55:44] <SWPadnos> and they're not made to be quiet either
[02:57:15] <jmkasunich> I should power this thing up and see what it's like
[02:57:37] <SWPadnos> "big old *jet airliner*, don't take me too far away"
[02:58:55] <jmkasunich> is there any convenient way to tell what graphics card is in a running linux box?
[02:59:11] <SWPadnos> without X?
[02:59:27] <jmkasunich> with X
[02:59:28] <SWPadnos> lspci should do it
[02:59:49] <jmkasunich> (I want to see if the 8M millennium is in my other linux box, and it's running right now)
[02:59:56] <Jymmm> oh man Steve Miller Band.... flash back
[03:00:03] <SWPadnos> check /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
[03:00:31] <SWPadnos> still popular after all these years
[03:00:45] <jmkasunich> lspci tells me it's a millennium, but not how much mem
[03:00:48] <jmkasunich> checking etc now
[03:02:29] <jmkasunich> doesn't say
[03:02:36] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich removes the lid
[03:02:45] <SWPadnos> oh - I'm not sure how to get that - maybe look at /var/log/Xfree86.0.log
[03:03:01] <SWPadnos> actually - grep -i mem /var/log/XFree86.0.log
[03:03:28] <jmkasunich> or lift the lid and look
[03:03:32] <jmkasunich> it is an 8M card
[03:03:50] <SWPadnos> lspci -v or lspci -vv would tell you the memory
[03:04:36] <jmkasunich> hmmm, grepping the log was interesting
[03:05:03] <SWPadnos> heh - lots of "insufficient memory for XXX" huh
[03:05:03] <jmkasunich> "unable to probe memory amount due to hardware bug, assuming 4096K"
[03:05:09] <SWPadnos> hmm
[03:05:37] <jmkasunich> that board wouldn't work in the server anyway, it's an AGP board
[03:05:52] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich realizes that 99% of the boards I could buy these days are also AGP
[03:05:59] <SWPadnos> right - you need a memory 8192K line in the Driver section of XF86Config-4
[03:06:18] <SWPadnos> that's what ebay is for
[03:07:03] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40160&item=5176606069&rd=1
[03:07:29] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40160&item=5178931260&rd=1
[03:07:39] <jmkasunich> whoa...
[03:07:59] <SWPadnos> heh - that one looks familiar
[03:09:21] <jmkasunich> which one
[03:09:38] <SWPadnos> both, actually -but I have the second one I think
[03:09:41] <SWPadnos> (still)
[03:10:03] <jmkasunich> I have 5 of the second one (without the memory upgrade)
[03:11:23] <SWPadnos> so - $19.99 for the memory upgrade (including shipping)
[03:11:58] <jmkasunich> well if I'm gonna buy a video card, I think I want to get better than that... the 450 looks interesting
[03:12:11] <jmkasunich> but I might as well get one with a DVI output
[03:12:18] <SWPadnos> it's not bad
[03:12:39] <SWPadnos> the G450 has a DVI connector (the first auction)
[03:13:45] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40161&item=5178863548&rd=1
[03:15:02] <jmkasunich_1> nice
[03:15:12] <SWPadnos> enough RAM to run EMC
[03:15:41] <jmkasunich_1> long ago, I wondered what it would look like if you mapped the stack and data areas into video RAM and started running programs
[03:16:06] <SWPadnos> interesting
[03:16:24] <SWPadnos> they'd run slower, that's for sure
[03:16:49] <jmkasunich_1> for my purposes that 256M card is massive overkill... and the heatsink might be a space problem
[03:17:00] <jmkasunich_1> this box has a motherboard with 3 PCI slots on a riser
[03:17:09] <SWPadnos> do you need a low profile card, or are the slots horizontal?
[03:17:13] <jmkasunich_1> (PCI boards are horizontal)
[03:17:13] <SWPadnos> OK - horizontal
[03:17:43] <jmkasunich_1> there are actually 4 slots, one is on the opposite side of the riser
[03:17:48] <jmkasunich_1> that one has a network card in it
[03:17:58] <jmkasunich_1> (no network on the motherboard, strangely enough)
[03:18:14] <SWPadnos> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40161&item=5178873469&rd=1
[03:18:47] <SWPadnos> actually - this one is more like it: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=80184&item=5178218344&rd=1
[03:19:08] <SWPadnos> but I don't know about Linux drivers for that one
[03:20:13] <Jymmm> linux sux, CP/M rules!
[03:20:18] <jmkasunich_1> doesn't seem to have DVI
[03:20:32] <jmkasunich_1> Z-80!!!
[03:20:37] <SWPadnos> 4004
[03:20:39] <Jymmm> * Jymmm read that as DUI
[03:20:50] <jmkasunich_1> I have a KayproII in the closet upstairs
[03:21:04] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yeah? two disks?
[03:21:12] <Jymmm> luggable?
[03:21:14] <jmkasunich_1> 4MHz Z-80, 64K ram, two 5-1/4" floppies
[03:21:16] <jmkasunich_1> yep
[03:21:18] <SWPadnos> the first luggable computer
[03:21:25] <Jymmm> how big is the crt?
[03:21:28] <Jymmm> 5"
[03:21:39] <jmkasunich_1> bigger than that... maybe 8" diagonal
[03:21:43] <SWPadnos> 7", I think
[03:21:49] <SWPadnos> maybe 9 (8 visible)
[03:21:51] <Jymmm> Amber or grn?
[03:22:00] <jmkasunich_1> green I think
[03:22:05] <Jymmm> heh
[03:22:19] <Jymmm> would you like a speech synth for it?
[03:22:35] <jmkasunich_1> dunno... I might be confusing it with my first PC clone - XT box, hercules graphics
[03:22:46] <jmkasunich_1> one was amber, one was green, don't recall which was which
[03:22:58] <Jymmm> doens't really matter =)
[03:23:07] <jmkasunich_1> no, I guess it doesn't ;-)
[03:24:18] <Jymmm> I ALMOST was gonna ask you if you wantedd to get rid if it, but then I remembered I just got rid of the Color Turbo NeXTSTATION (sniff sniff) because I dont have the room for it.
[03:24:49] <jmkasunich_1> one of these days I'll drag it out and ebay it....
[03:25:12] <jmkasunich_1> but it's not in the way, unlike all the crap in my basement... need to ebay that stuff first
[03:25:23] <Jymmm> too bad there can't be a place we can take these things and be able to use them if we wanted to, and so can someone else.
[03:26:29] <jmkasunich_1> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=40161&item=5177450762
[03:26:34] <jmkasunich_1> wonder if that has a DVI out
[03:28:33] <jmkasunich_1> Jymmm: I know what you mean
[03:28:54] <jmkasunich_1> I just brought home an industrial rackmount PC that has something like 7 ISA and 9 PCI slots
[03:29:21] <jmkasunich_1> (passive backplane thing, with the CPU plugged into a slot in the middle, ISA on one side, and PCI on the other
[03:29:35] <jmkasunich_1> somewhere, somebody wants something just like that
[03:29:43] <jmkasunich_1> maybe to test lots of cards or something
[03:31:07] <SWPadnos> I had searched eBay for pci dvi for those other ones
[03:31:18] <SWPadnos> bummer about the nextstation
[03:31:26] <SWPadnos> I still have nextstep 3.1 here
[03:31:56] <jmkasunich_1> I can find 128 and 256M cards with DVI, or 32M cards with analog, but no small memory cards with DVI
[03:32:10] <SWPadnos> that's what you'll find all right
[03:32:34] <SWPadnos> DVI didn't come out until video cards were at the 64M level, and then only on higher end ones
[03:32:56] <jmkasunich_1> I see
[03:33:00] <jmkasunich_1> darn
[03:33:26] <jmkasunich_1> I don't want one with 200 watt graphics CPU and a furnace blower to cool it
[03:33:40] <SWPadnos> you can always underclock
[03:33:40] <jmkasunich_1> but I guess 64 or 128M is OK
[03:34:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos The NeXT was maxed out too.... 128 Ram, 17" Color CRT, 2-3gb hdd
[03:34:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:34:37] <SWPadnos> SCSI printer?
[03:34:44] <Jymmm> no printer
[03:34:54] <SWPadnos> did it have that funky optical card reader?
[03:35:09] <Jymmm> no, just the soundbox
[03:35:13] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:35:23] <SWPadnos> I still have an SGI Indigo2 here
[03:35:43] <SWPadnos> 192M RAM and a 4.3G hard drive, plus 6.7x CD-ROM
[03:35:50] <jmkasunich_1> I remember when indigos were the hot new thing
[03:35:57] <jmkasunich_1> they got them at work to run Pro-E on
[03:36:07] <Jymmm> See, we need a place to put all this stuff so everyoen can use, of course with respect for each others gear.
[03:36:18] <SWPadnos> yeah - I managed to get this one just before the bottom dropped out on the price
[03:36:25] <jmkasunich_1> lol
[03:36:32] <SWPadnos> They're like $100 on eBay now
[03:36:42] <jmkasunich_1> you're supposed to get them _after_ the price drops out
[03:37:18] <jmkasunich_1> my neatest computer is a AB 6818 industrial box
[03:37:22] <SWPadnos> well - yeah, that's what they tell me :)
[03:37:51] <SWPadnos> dude! there's a 13W3 to VGA adapter cable available!
[03:38:00] <jmkasunich_1> about 9" hi x 10" wide x 8" deep, with a 8" or so diagonal LCD display, 600MHz P3, 128M ram, and 30G hard drive
[03:38:12] <jmkasunich_1> oh, and a touchscreen
[03:38:24] <SWPadnos> that's a great EMC machine
[03:38:29] <jmkasunich_1> designed to be mounted in an industrial enclosure, you can hose it down if you want
[03:38:40] <jmkasunich_1> the good news is that it boots up find
[03:39:00] <jmkasunich_1> the bad news is that the LCD is cracked... you can actually see part of the image, the rest is all busted up
[03:39:23] <SWPadnos> is it a special controller, or is the LCD driven from a VGA card?
[03:39:59] <jmkasunich_1> special controller - there is the standard VGA connector if you want to use an external monitor, but the internal LCD plugs into a differnet spot
[03:40:20] <Jymmm> Ok, is there any REAL reason to get one over the other?
[03:40:22] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that's probably replaceable. but 8" display is a bit small
[03:40:23] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37793
[03:40:29] <jmkasunich_1> I'm gonna keep my eyes on the dumpster, see if something similar shows up that I can grab the display
[03:40:30] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44914
[03:41:35] <jmkasunich_1> Jymmm: completely different items
[03:42:01] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: I know, but for a cnc router, any pro/con of one over the other?
[03:42:25] <jmkasunich_1> depends on what you want to do
[03:42:30] <SWPadnos> the trim router has the advantage of being small, light, and higher speed
[03:42:57] <SWPadnos> the bigass router has the advantrage of being way more powerful, and can probably operate for longer than 2 minutes without burning up
[03:42:58] <jmkasunich_1> the little one is 2.5 lbs, the big one 12.5 lbs... so you need a bigger, heaver machine to move it
[03:43:29] <jmkasunich_1> if you are building a 12" x 24" sign engraving machine, use the little one
[03:43:30] <Jymmm> same price as the lil one: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=33833
[03:43:33] <SWPadnos> you'll need a separate circuit for the big one (19A)
[03:43:39] <jmkasunich_1> a 4' x 8' panel router, use the big one
[03:43:51] <Jymmm> 2'x4'
[03:44:08] <SWPadnos> the big one also has 3 collets, vs. only the 1/4 for the small one
[03:44:57] <SWPadnos> but I'd bet none of them is supposed to be run for more than 5 minutes at a time
[03:44:59] <jmkasunich_1> Jymmm: everything is a tradeoff.. that's why engineering is so tough
[03:45:17] <Jymmm> jmkasunichL I understand, just why I had asked is all =)
[03:45:25] <jmkasunich_1> only you know exactly what you are trying to do with your machine... and that determines which router is best
[03:45:27] <Jymmm> didnt consider the weight/circuit
[03:45:47] <jmkasunich_1> as SWP says, they are all designed for intermittent duty as you would see when operating them by hand
[03:46:29] <Jymmm> Yeah, but for $40, should at least get me started.
[03:46:47] <Jymmm> Heh, sell it on ebay in a yr for $30 =)
[03:46:50] <SWPadnos> only if you have programmed pauses every few minutes for cooldown
[03:47:01] <SWPadnos> else it'll work the first hour or two, then poof
[03:50:17] <Jymmm> heh was just looking to see if they had a duty rating in the manual. but I udnerstand
[03:50:35] <SWPadnos> yeah - I didn't see that even on the bench router :)
[03:50:49] <SWPadnos> note the price difference to the Bosch router
[03:50:55] <SWPadnos> lower power, but 5 times the price
[03:51:05] <SWPadnos> that's not all brand name fluff
[03:51:47] <jmkasunich> I have a bosch 1513EVS
[03:51:56] <jmkasunich> I likes it
[03:52:43] <SWPadnos> Jymmm: go to Home depot, and take alook at their tools. they'll be more expensive than HF, but also way better
[03:52:53] <SWPadnos> (if you get the right ones - they have crap as well)
[03:53:08] <Jymmm> what, you no like Homer brand?! lol
[03:53:35] <SWPadnos> or go for that high speed spindle off ebay
[03:53:36] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has a parrot hanging sideways on his shirt at the moment
[03:53:41] <SWPadnos> fun
[03:54:12] <jmkasunich> or some other industrial quality surplus
[03:54:14] <Jymmm> heh she looked at the monitor as you said that like "You tlaking about me?!"
[03:54:28] <jmkasunich> you have industrial surplus places nearby?
[03:54:50] <Jymmm> now shes buffing her beak on my arm, then using her beak as a hammer!
[03:55:04] <Jymmm> indus surplus is lasking here big time
[03:55:11] <Jymmm> lacking
[03:55:25] <Jymmm> all that stuff is in LA, not SF
[03:56:24] <jmkasunich_1> I wonder what this is: http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=12-148-003
[03:56:26] <SWPadnos> check into UC Berkeley - they may sell off older stuff (if they have a mechanical engineering department)
[03:56:50] <Jymmm> I tried Standford already... bad VERY bad
[03:56:56] <Jymmm> jmkasunichtapping head
[03:56:56] <SWPadnos> well - obviously - it's a spindle. it says so right there. :)
[03:57:01] <Jymmm> jmkasunich tapping head
[03:57:50] <Jymmm> poorly repaired with a hose clamp tapping head.
[03:59:14] <jmkasunich_1> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=01-567-017
[03:59:51] <Jymmm> That's a sewing machien for SS sheet
[04:00:40] <Jymmm> or, the worlds large stapler
[04:00:52] <jmkasunich_1> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/Detail.asp?PartNum=20-236-009
[04:01:09] <jmkasunich_1> that is a _very_ nice little home shop mill
[04:01:21] <Jymmm> Steering column for a submarine
[04:01:24] <SWPadnos> only $899
[04:01:44] <jmkasunich_1> they'd probably take $700 - prices there are pretty negotiable
[04:01:57] <Jymmm> looks like it has DRO too
[04:02:01] <jmkasunich_1> the spindle tilts from horizontal to vertical
[04:02:09] <jmkasunich_1> weighs about 1300 lbs
[04:02:41] <jmkasunich_1> I have a #12, that is a #6. they're pretty similar, except that the #12 has power feed on X
[04:03:44] <jmkasunich_1> if I didn't alreay have the #12, I'd be heading down there tomorrow
[04:04:56] <jmkasunich> damn... iso's take a long time to download
[04:05:21] <SWPadnos> damn - look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7503430669
[04:06:38] <jmkasunich_1> doesn't say how much it multiplies by
[04:06:47] <SWPadnos> no - I was looking for that
[04:06:50] <SWPadnos> nice shape though
[04:07:09] <jmkasunich_1> yep
[04:07:30] <jmkasunich_1> only been up 2 hours... bet it won't stay at $.99 for long
[04:07:42] <SWPadnos> no - I suspect not
[04:09:19] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich: still looking for a high speed spindle? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7501169278
[04:11:00] <jmkasunich_1> looks like an RC model motor - probably intermittent duty
[04:11:18] <jmkasunich_1> 15A at 9V, designed for batteries
[04:11:37] <Jymmm> Heading to HF tomorrow, looking at picking up: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=37151
[04:11:41] <jmkasunich_1> I'm hoping to build something...
[04:11:49] <SWPadnos> yes - for some reason I read that as being over 900 W - I must be tired :)
[04:11:59] <Jymmm> on sale for $450 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=44991
[04:12:08] <jmkasunich_1> I believe it... probably only 40-50% efficient
[04:12:28] <jmkasunich_1> Jymmm: that is about the only Harbor Freight item I would endorse
[04:12:41] <jmkasunich_1> I have one, just finished using it earlier this evening
[04:12:45] <Jymmm> the saw?
[04:12:48] <jmkasunich_1> yes
[04:12:53] <SWPadnos> and the same price (other than shipping) as the identical Grizzly model
[04:13:06] <jmkasunich_1> I got mine at the store for 139 on sale
[04:13:16] <Jymmm> legs are real cheap from my understandig
[04:13:27] <SWPadnos> (the minimill, that is)
[04:13:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos ?
[04:13:43] <SWPadnos> legs are throwaways, from my understanding
[04:13:51] <jmkasunich_1> yeah, the saw can stand a bit of a tune-up, but every Chinese machine is like that
[04:13:54] <SWPadnos> the minimill is the same as Grizzly
[04:14:00] <jmkasunich_1> the blade that comes with it is total crap
[04:14:07] <jmkasunich_1> get a good bimetal blade
[04:14:18] <Jymmm> jmkasunich is HF replace BiMetal ok?
[04:14:21] <Jymmm> ment
[04:14:42] <jmkasunich_1> I have no idea... in general I avoid HF
[04:15:00] <SWPadnos> MSC
[04:15:02] <Jymmm> 24 tpi ?
[04:15:06] <jmkasunich_1> probably the same blade that it comes with
[04:15:14] <jmkasunich_1> depends on what you're gonna cut
[04:15:22] <jmkasunich_1> thin stuff, fine pitch blade
[04:15:27] <jmkasunich_1> thick stuff, coarse blade
[04:15:57] <Jymmm> drillrod 3/4"
[04:16:01] <SWPadnos> the rule of thumb is that at least 3-5 teeth are in the stock at a time, right?
[04:16:11] <jmkasunich_1> at least 3, yes
[04:17:00] <jmkasunich_1> Jymmm: buy a brand name blade - they are worth it
[04:17:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich ok. hey is the vertical table on your any good?
[04:17:49] <jmkasunich_1> it's OK, not great
[04:17:56] <Jymmm> wobbles?
[04:18:03] <jmkasunich_1> it's only about 6" square
[04:18:34] <Jymmm> something a sheet of aluminum could fix?
[04:18:34] <jmkasunich_1> I use the saw in horizontal mode for cutoff about 75% of the time
[04:18:43] <jmkasunich_1> that's what it's best at
[04:18:54] <jmkasunich_1> but the vertical mode is handy for random hacking
[04:19:57] <jmkasunich_1> it's really hard to describe the good and bad points of something like this
[04:20:06] <SWPadnos> funny - I have a friend with one, and he almost exclusively uses it in vertical mode
[04:20:22] <jmkasunich_1> what does he cut?
[04:20:40] <SWPadnos> mostly aluminum or acetal, but some small steel
[04:20:49] <jmkasunich_1> nothing very thick I bet
[04:21:00] <SWPadnos> we now use the Johnson model J for the big stuff :)
[04:21:08] <jmkasunich_1> slow cutting in thick stuff... in vertical mode, you put the stuff in the vise and let it do the work
[04:21:13] <Jymmm> I'll be damn... in the manual it says about 3 teeth in the material
[04:21:29] <jmkasunich_1> hey - we're not as dumb as we look
[04:21:30] <SWPadnos> (I thought I had read that in some manual :) )
[04:21:36] <SWPadnos> wpeak for yourself
[04:21:39] <SWPadnos> speak
[04:21:44] <Jymmm> woof!
[04:22:02] <SWPadnos> thank you - now be good, or no biscuit
[04:22:06] <jmkasunich> iso is 97% done!
[04:22:21] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:22:58] <jmkasunich_1> I think the biggest I've cut with my bandsaw is about 2" round
[04:23:12] <jmkasunich_1> did some 1" x 2" steel last week
[04:23:24] <SWPadnos> heh - how about 6.5x1.5 flat bar ;)
[04:23:46] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: My parrot can cut that easily!
[04:23:50] <jmkasunich> the HF saw won't do that
[04:23:51] <SWPadnos> that was aluminum though
[04:23:59] <SWPadnos> nope -that's why I bought the Johnson
[04:24:09] <jmkasunich> I've cut 1/2" aluminum on the table saw
[04:24:18] <jmkasunich> scary, but works pretty well
[04:24:25] <jmkasunich> wear hearing protection
[04:24:28] <SWPadnos> I've never awnted to screw up my saw blades
[04:24:30] <Jymmm> chips go EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[04:24:43] <jmkasunich> I don't do
[04:24:45] <jmkasunich> oops
[04:24:46] <SWPadnos> I can probably get one for my Dewalt DW708 though
[04:24:56] <jmkasunich> I don't do "fine" woodworking
[04:25:00] <SWPadnos> (an abrasive blade or womething)
[04:25:06] <jmkasunich> just use my normal carbide tipped blade
[04:25:07] <SWPadnos> sonething - damn elmer fudd
[04:25:14] <SWPadnos> argh
[04:25:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos lol
[04:25:23] <jmkasunich> abrasive would be horrible on alum, clog up instantly
[04:25:57] <SWPadnos> well - I guess any 12" blade might do - I haven't really looked into cutting metal on the nice wood saw :)
[04:26:11] <jmkasunich> the carbide tooth wood blade actually _cuts_, makes nice chips
[04:26:29] <SWPadnos> hmm - how many tooth blade?
[04:26:33] <jmkasunich> a littel WD-40 to keep the chips from sticking to the blade... feed slow and carefull
[04:27:07] <jmkasunich> dunno exactly... like a rip blade, teeth about 1" apart
[04:27:20] <jmkasunich> my saw is a 50 yr old craftsman, 8-1/4" blade
[04:27:33] <SWPadnos> OK - maybe 24 tooth or so
[04:27:36] <jmkasunich> underpowered, I have one of those thin-kerf "piranaha" blades on it
[04:28:02] <jmkasunich> I think I've cut 2" x 3/4", I know I've cut 1/2" plate
[04:28:14] <SWPadnos> steel?
[04:28:19] <jmkasunich> aluminum
[04:28:23] <SWPadnos> phew
[04:28:33] <jmkasunich> steel would be throwing carbide teeth all over the basement
[04:28:59] <SWPadnos> right - it sounded a bit out there :)
[04:32:10] <jmkasunich> well, iso is downloaded, md5sums match, and it's almost midnight
[04:32:16] <jmkasunich> time for me to go
[04:32:22] <SWPadnos> OK - see ya later
[04:32:41] <Jymmm> eeesh speedy gonzales
[04:32:50] <SWPadnos> arriva ondele
[04:33:10] <jmkasunich_1> not so speedy when there is two of me to shut down
[04:33:16] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:33:20] <Jymmm> Hmmm I'm surprised they dont give the travel on that mill
[04:33:34] <Jymmm> suspect 8" x 4"
[04:33:41] <SWPadnos> the minimill?
[04:33:44] <Jymmm> yeah
[04:34:44] <SWPadnos> 7-7/16 X, 4 Y, 9-7/8 Z
[04:34:55] <Jymmm> where you see that?
[04:35:05] <SWPadnos> http://www.grizzly.com :)
[04:35:25] <SWPadnos> rotating head, too. http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G8689
[04:35:25] <Jymmm> they are all a lil different from each other
[04:35:36] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos' giving head?
[04:35:37] <A-L-P-H-A> eeew.
[04:35:48] <SWPadnos> ?
[04:35:59] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[04:36:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:36:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm just being stupid
[04:36:21] <SWPadnos> Ok - don't let it happen again :)
[04:36:32] <A-L-P-H-A> but it's genetic daddy.
[04:36:51] <SWPadnos> well - maybe you should try out for a Darwin award :)
[04:36:53] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight... I need to find a 3 prong wall plug with cable.
[04:37:01] <Jymmm> SWPadnos where you see rotaing head?
[04:37:24] <SWPadnos> cut a PC power cord off near the IEC connector
[04:37:39] <SWPadnos> Head Tile: 45 degrees L/R
[04:37:43] <SWPadnos> Tilt
[04:37:52] <SWPadnos> line 3 under specifications
[04:38:01] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, could. I actually should have an extra one. somewhere.
[04:38:11] <Jymmm> oh that... it's not very plesant... the HF has it too but on sale for $450 thru tomorrow
[04:38:31] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A won't mention the HF price trick
[04:38:41] <Jymmm> which is?
[04:39:19] <A-L-P-H-A> copy the item number down... alternate the last number by manual entry.
[04:39:41] <Jymmm> oh that, yeah good for 90 days
[04:39:59] <Jymmm> but this is a STORE advertised price, no sufix
[04:42:22] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, experiment.
[04:53:13] <svkatielee> hello
[04:53:32] <SWPadnos> hi
[04:53:57] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/24/art.prank.reut/index.html hehe
[04:54:10] <A-L-P-H-A> hi larry.
[04:55:14] <svkatielee> Hi, no automatic machines here, but a computer guy....
[04:56:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Hi, Mr "no automatic machines here, but a computer guy...."
[04:56:41] <EldonB46> A-L-P-H-A, I am talking Larry thourgh this on another direct chat, his first time here.
[04:57:18] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.
[05:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> YUMMY http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/24/chili.finger.reut/index.html
[05:02:29] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A yeah, saw it this morning
[05:02:36] <Jymmm> In San Jose no less
[05:03:41] <Jymmm> what does "Swing 20" mean?
[05:03:57] <A-L-P-H-A> 20" radius on a lathe.
[05:04:04] <A-L-P-H-A> 40" diameter.
[05:04:07] <A-L-P-H-A> that's HUGE.
[05:04:14] <A-L-P-H-A> you could turn out aluminium rims with that.
[05:04:22] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=42827
[05:04:40] <Jymmm> can't do it.... too big
[05:05:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know what swing means on a mill.
[05:05:42] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, I think it means the X travel.
[05:05:45] <A-L-P-H-A> but that's not called swing.
[05:05:47] <A-L-P-H-A> that's travel.
[05:05:51] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid HF people
[05:06:02] <Jymmm> isee it elsewhere too
[05:06:12] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno.
[05:06:24] <A-L-P-H-A> swing is usually for Lathes. but hey, what do I know.
[05:08:27] <Jymmm> what is a MT-2 mount... jacobs?
[05:08:40] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[05:08:42] <A-L-P-H-A> morsetaper
[05:08:50] <A-L-P-H-A> jacobs is different... jacobs is for chucks
[05:08:52] <Jymmm> inverse of R8 ?
[05:08:56] <A-L-P-H-A> no
[05:09:51] <A-L-P-H-A> it's a taper... it's held in by friction, and sometimes a drawbar (but not usually)
[05:10:05] <Jymmm> the minimill has R8, but a tappign head has a MT-2 mount
[05:10:18] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=46343
[05:10:45] <SWPadnos> there are R-8 to MT2 or MT3 adapters
[05:10:52] <A-L-P-H-A> MT2 yes.
[05:10:58] <A-L-P-H-A> probably an r8 to mt3 as well.
[05:11:07] <SWPadnos> and MT3, they're just very long
[05:12:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm off to bed... Ithink... my back feels bad , dunno why
[05:12:37] <Jymmm> ok, a 4-40 thread... 40 TPI, but what is the diameter.
[05:12:49] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A advil and/or a lil brandy help (for real)
[05:14:16] <svkatielee> 4-40, number 4 wire size with 40 tpi
[05:14:37] <svkatielee> "about 1/16
[05:14:59] <Jymmm> lil bigger than 1/16" ?
[05:15:13] <svkatielee> ayep
[05:16:16] <Jymmm> ok cool ty
[05:16:25] <Jymmm> I just MIGHT be able to use this tapping head
[05:17:41] <SWPadnos> wow - 5/8 capacity taps - that's pretty big
[05:17:48] <SWPadnos> tap capacity
[05:19:13] <Jymmm> it's too long for the minimill, but I can use it in my drillpress
[05:19:54] <SWPadnos> yeah - just make sure the taper is correct
[05:20:18] <SWPadnos> I think most drill presses are JT33 or something like that
[05:21:09] <Jymmm> oh.... MT-2 is tapered?
[05:21:32] <SWPadnos> yes
[05:21:41] <SWPadnos> Morse Taper size 2
[05:23:18] <Jymmm> ah just never put that together.
[05:23:34] <Jymmm> btw ty svkatielee
[05:24:32] <Jymmm> now to find a vise to buy tomorrow!
[05:24:50] <SWPadnos> A milling machine vise?
[05:24:55] <svkatielee> no prob
[05:24:59] <Jymmm> for the minimill
[05:25:19] <SWPadnos> Ah - I have a spare that weighs almost as much as the minimill
[05:25:25] <Jymmm> lol
[05:38:44] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I really like that tapping device... I wouldn't mind hearing how well it works.
[05:39:05] <A-L-P-H-A> typing from bed... back is feeling a little better after some stretching
[05:39:16] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A I like the price! for a tool store it'll be $500 minimum
[05:39:38] <A-L-P-H-A> but it's MADE in india crap... that's the problem.
[05:39:46] <SWPadnos> just be careful of getting what you pay for :)
[05:40:06] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Eh, for $100 it breaks you can then justify the tappatic ones
[05:40:25] <Jymmm> but for a one off job, it just might be the thing.
[05:40:42] <A-L-P-H-A> india <= [European grade B, China grade B] < [Taiwan, American, European, Chinese Grade A]
[05:40:42] <Jymmm> at least all one to play with cnc tapping
[05:41:05] <Jymmm> heh
[05:41:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I had to make a special adapter for this huge tap... a 1-9/15"-18tpi tap.
[05:41:37] <SWPadnos> B)
[05:41:56] <SWPadnos> huh - both B ) and B ] are shade smilies
[05:42:06] <Jymmm> I won't get it tomorrow. Tomorrow is saw, minimill, collets, clamp kit, cheap vise adn end mills, and a few assorted things
[05:42:26] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, stupid) (CHAT)ZillA)
[05:42:35] <SWPadnos> werkz fer me
[05:42:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm! you're spending money!
[05:42:42] <A-L-P-H-A> OMG!
[05:43:17] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I never said I wasn't. I said I wanted to build it for $500. I've set aside $5000 budget.
[05:43:33] <A-L-P-H-A> get the tapping device... and test it out... if you don't like it, return it! :)
[05:43:50] <A-L-P-H-A> oh yeah... they don't always carry the stuff in the store, that they have in the catalogue.
[05:44:01] <A-L-P-H-A> I've asked if they'd order it in for me... and they said no.
[05:44:06] <Jymmm> harborfreightusa.com <--- retail outlet
[05:44:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I wasn't pleased with that answer.
[05:44:20] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A they are completely two different companies
[05:44:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I was talking the actual store. the physical ones.
[05:44:26] <Jymmm> I am too
[05:44:35] <A-L-P-H-A> they are?
[05:44:43] <Jymmm> harborfreight.com <--- catalog
[05:44:46] <Jymmm> harborfreight.com <--- store
[05:44:50] <Jymmm> harborfreightusa.com <--- store
[05:45:06] <Jymmm> They are two legally different companys
[05:45:13] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[05:45:25] <Jymmm> thats how I can order from catalog and not pay sales tax
[05:45:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't know that.
[05:45:36] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[05:45:48] <A-L-P-H-A> well... the stupid webstore doesn't deliver to Canada.
[05:45:48] <Jymmm> Yeah, most dont. I talked to a Mgr and he gave me the details
[05:45:55] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[05:47:14] <Jymmm> so if you want to see what the store carries, try harborfreightusa.com instead
[05:47:47] <A-L-P-H-A> oh they do now.
[05:48:04] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, thanks
[05:48:09] <Jymmm> np
[05:48:26] <A-L-P-H-A> well... I have friends I can get stuff shipped to... but it's annoying
[05:48:39] <Jymmm> yeah, I understand
[05:49:01] <Jymmm> I cant get gun stuff here in Calif, so I have it shipped to a friends in AZ
[05:49:14] <A-L-P-H-A> gun stuff? why not?
[05:49:16] <A-L-P-H-A> checks?
[05:49:23] <A-L-P-H-A> you got a record, and own a gun?
[05:49:26] <Jymmm> no, legality of shipping to Calif
[05:49:26] <A-L-P-H-A> shame on you.
[05:49:40] <Jymmm> not allowed to be sold in Calif
[05:49:42] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, I don't hear you bitching about it too much?
[05:49:51] <Jymmm> nope =)
[05:50:03] <Jymmm> about clif legal shit?
[05:50:06] <A-L-P-H-A> what was all that BS about how CC wouldn't let you buy smokes?
[05:50:47] <Jymmm> Calif has some fucked up laws. the cc thing is presidence
[05:52:10] <Jymmm> The whole gun restriction thing is unconstitutional. But I'm not stupid, if I make a stink about it, another Waco TX
[05:52:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, lets not get into this debate, unless you understand the difference between RIGHTS and PRIVLEDGES.
[05:52:29] <Jymmm> I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
[05:52:38] <A-L-P-H-A> yes you do.
[05:52:40] <Jymmm> Any that the military has
[05:52:50] <SWPadnos> sort of
[05:52:50] <A-L-P-H-A> In your constitution. :)
[05:53:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos that what it says
[05:53:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, do you have a right to buy smokes with a credit card?
[05:53:17] <SWPadnos> theoretically, I should be able to buy a tank and missiles, but that's not the way it is
[05:53:19] <A-L-P-H-A> "right" was supposed to be emphasized.
[05:53:33] <Jymmm> SWPadnos not just in theory
[05:53:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos corrupt gov
[05:54:01] <Jymmm> which is WHY we have the RIGHT
[05:54:13] <SWPadnos> well - I'm not sure I'd want a whole lot of people having nuclear weapons on my block
[05:54:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, you mean everyone doesn't have one?
[05:54:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Me neither, but I like knowing that I can if ever needed.
[05:54:41] <SWPadnos> well - everyone else, I mean
[05:55:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, so are WMD arms?
[05:55:15] <A-L-P-H-A> like sarin?
[05:55:18] <A-L-P-H-A> VX?
[05:56:38] <Jymmm> technically I suppose. And yes, by rights ppl should be able to have them. Not like I'd want the 1,000,000 dumbasses around me with that shit though =)
[05:57:13] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, so... you'd rather have 1,000,000 bumbasses with tek-9 gats around with you?
[05:57:47] <Jymmm> Hell, they got em already
[05:58:05] <SWPadnos> read this http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/410/410lect11.htm
[05:58:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, sun's gotten to your head.
[05:58:20] <SWPadnos> particularly the section titled "the militia clause"
[05:58:41] <SWPadnos> The clause has two parts, which shouldn't be taken separately.
[05:59:02] <SWPadnos> The purpose of the right to bear arms is so that there can be a well-equipped militia
[05:59:13] <SWPadnos> not so jackasses can own missiles
[06:05:21] <A-L-P-H-A> heh.
[06:05:37] <SWPadnos> wow - the last constitutional amendment was in 1992!
[06:05:40] <A-L-P-H-A> so, you mean. the Michigan Militia could own missiles.
[06:05:45] <SWPadnos> I never even heard about any debate
[06:06:27] <SWPadnos> well - part of the idea is that if the government becomes too opressive, the people have a right to revolt
[06:07:46] <A-L-P-H-A> heh... CIVIL WAR! common
[06:07:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd like to watch that on TV...
[06:08:05] <A-L-P-H-A> USA civil war...
[06:08:11] <SWPadnos> REALITY TV brings you Civil War
[06:08:14] <A-L-P-H-A> watch it on CNN, BBC, CBC
[06:08:18] <A-L-P-H-A> exactly.
[06:08:22] <SWPadnos> Which state will be voted off this week's show?
[06:08:22] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A You're welcome to come on down and watch it LIVE
[06:08:32] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, hehe
[06:08:33] <SWPadnos> bring missiles
[06:08:42] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, look at it!
[06:08:52] <A-L-P-H-A> the democrates have the republicans surrounded!
[06:09:08] <SWPadnos> wake up - this is the real world
[06:09:12] <SWPadnos> (but it would be nice)
[06:09:21] <A-L-P-H-A> East and WEst coasts surround the silly republicans.
[06:09:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Blues surround the bloody stupid reds.
[06:09:39] <SWPadnos> but they have all the guns ;)
[06:09:50] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A ?! It's Bloods and Crips
[06:10:02] <SWPadnos> Bloods and Crips, Yo
[06:10:41] <A-L-P-H-A> they still around?
[06:10:45] <SWPadnos> well - time for me to go to bed
[06:10:47] <Jymmm> All I know is I have lots of topo maps
[06:10:48] <SWPadnos> night, guys
[06:10:53] <Jymmm> G'Night SWPadnos
[06:10:55] <A-L-P-H-A> what the fuck happens when a gay mofo walks down the street in Purple?
[06:11:03] <SWPadnos> DEATH
[06:11:08] <A-L-P-H-A> <mixing red and blue together>
[06:11:13] <Jymmm> he's out of style
[06:11:14] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[06:11:46] <Jymmm> you have the artist formly know as Prince
[06:12:05] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/ hahahahhahhaa. LOVE It.
[06:12:11] <A-L-P-H-A> made me laugh so hard after the elections
[06:14:31] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/single/se19980.jpeg/ very true.
[06:14:46] <A-L-P-H-A> though the facts are wrong
[06:14:51] <A-L-P-H-A> India is a bigger democracy.
[06:19:34] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, isn't he Prince again?
[06:19:42] <A-L-P-H-A> he was here in Toronto over the summer I think.
[06:19:56] <A-L-P-H-A> huge sold out concert... surprsiing.
[06:20:39] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.sorryeverybody.com/gallery/single/se28596.jpeg/
[06:20:44] <A-L-P-H-A> heh
[06:24:22] <A-L-P-H-A> night folks
[06:25:37] <EldonB46> 10:30 in Seattle, good night all
[06:25:49] <Jymmm> G'Night
[09:47:51] <alex_joni> greetings
[09:59:05] <alex_joni> anybody home?
[10:32:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back later
[10:40:34] <Imperator_> alex_joni: hi alex
[10:41:47] <alex_joni> hey Martin
[10:41:50] <alex_joni> was just about to leave
[10:42:36] <Imperator_> ok
[10:42:48] <Imperator_> i would translate "mist" with "Luft"
[10:43:08] <Imperator_> all the other stuff seam good
[10:43:20] <alex_joni> there's a wiki
[10:43:27] <alex_joni> on linuxwiki.de/emc/
[10:43:31] <alex_joni> with the status
[10:43:35] <alex_joni> gotta run
[10:43:37] <alex_joni> back later
[10:43:37] <alex_joni> bye
[10:44:22] <Imperator_> must also leave
[10:44:25] <Imperator_> bye
[10:44:32] <Imperator_> Imperator_ is now known as Imperator_away
[11:04:52] <anonimasu> good morning
[11:08:39] <anonimasu> morning paul
[11:11:20] <paul_c> Morning.
[11:39:50] <anonimasu> what's up today?
[12:12:22] <paul_c> * paul_c does some more hackery with Qt container classes
[12:12:26] <anonimasu> hm ok
[12:12:38] <anonimasu> I am trying to cad a fibreglass mold
[12:12:54] <anonimasu> but I am curious how visualmill will break it
[12:20:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[12:20:33] <anonimasu> I dont like when roughing in foam takes a hour.
[12:26:20] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/qemcstatus.cc: File changed. New revision:qemcstatus.hh
[12:32:52] <paul_c> * paul_c has some chores to do...
[12:52:45] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/qtdro.cc: File changed. New revision:qtdro.hh
[14:08:18] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back
[14:08:23] <alex_joni> good day gent
[14:08:25] <alex_joni> good day gents
[14:08:43] <alex_joni> paul_c: what qt are you working on?
[14:09:35] <anonimasu> good day alex
[14:09:36] <anonimasu> :)
[14:10:01] <alex_joni> hey an0n
[14:10:03] <alex_joni> what
[14:10:06] <alex_joni> what's up
[14:10:10] <alex_joni> * alex_joni can't type today
[14:10:44] <anonimasu> not much
[14:10:48] <anonimasu> just relaxing
[14:11:06] <alex_joni> how nic
[14:11:07] <alex_joni> nice
[14:11:11] <alex_joni> damn
[14:11:28] <alex_joni> if it keep doing it like this.. I'll break this kb
[14:14:15] <rayh> Hi Alex.
[14:14:23] <alex_joni> hey rayh
[14:14:35] <alex_joni> got some feedback from the .de community
[14:14:46] <alex_joni> they wanna use really long strings on the buttons ;)
[14:15:24] <alex_joni> "Flood on" Fl�ssigkeits-K�hlung an"
[14:15:25] <rayh> In school a .de tv was fehrnsehapparat(sp)
[14:15:38] <alex_joni> tv is also accepted ;)
[14:15:55] <alex_joni> "Set Jog Speed" "Setzen der manuelle Vorschubgeschwindigkeit"
[14:16:02] <rayh> I was to innocent back then to understand that.
[14:16:33] <rayh> That's it.
[14:17:35] <rayh> I don't have a clue how to handle these in tk.
[14:17:42] <alex_joni> I don't wanna know how big tkemc needs to be to suit those kind of strings
[14:17:44] <alex_joni> ;)
[14:17:57] <alex_joni> I told them to keep them aprox. the same size as the english ones
[14:18:02] <rayh> Or the grid for any other graphical tool kit.
[14:18:07] <alex_joni> and search for other translations
[14:18:18] <rayh> Good luck on that one.
[14:18:27] <alex_joni> The ones I did are pretty ok.. not perfect (I admit, as I'm not a native .de)
[14:18:32] <alex_joni> but they fit on tkemc
[14:18:47] <alex_joni> I did have to adjust two strings.. but didn't break anything (I hope)
[14:18:59] <rayh> We could leave some of these longer translations for balloon help.
[14:19:01] <anonimasu> hm..
[14:19:19] <anonimasu> I've tried to do that in swedish..
[14:19:44] <alex_joni> rayh: right
[14:19:51] <alex_joni> short question about that...
[14:20:00] <alex_joni> how does balloon help work?
[14:20:05] <alex_joni> I've never seen it work
[14:20:19] <rayh> anonimasu: what did you find in swedish.
[14:20:35] <alex_joni> he did the translation to swedish
[14:20:40] <rayh> Ah. It is available in tkemc, not mini.
[14:21:03] <alex_joni> well I only played with tkemc (also mini, but briefly)
[14:21:06] <rayh> But only for a few of the buttons. Never used it myself.
[14:21:11] <alex_joni> heh
[14:21:30] <rayh> * rayh goes looking for the balloon text file.
[14:23:01] <rayh> ah. emc/tcl/scripts/balloon.tcl does the work and emchelp.tcl provides the text.
[14:23:24] <alex_joni> * alex_joni looks for emchelp.tcl
[14:24:02] <les> hi ray
[14:24:10] <rayh> Hi Les.
[14:24:20] <les> question for you:
[14:24:42] <les> has anyone implemented a tool changer with emc?
[14:24:57] <rayh> It's in there.
[14:25:06] <rayh> What kind?
[14:25:13] <narnia> rayh, good morning, how goes it?
[14:26:01] <les> automatic. M06Txx sets offset and stuff but does not have any way to talk to a plc or something
[14:26:19] <les> nor does it halt the program to wait for input
[14:26:27] <les> hi narnia
[14:26:52] <anonimasu> can you pause the prorgam via NML?
[14:27:03] <les> perhaps
[14:27:06] <rayh> Balloon help needs an ini entry
[14:27:10] <les> M00 pauses
[14:27:14] <rayh> [DISPLAY]
[14:27:18] <rayh> ; Enable popup balloon help
[14:27:18] <rayh> BALLOON_HELP = 1
[14:27:25] <anonimasu> yeah, but sending a M123 or somthing
[14:27:36] <anonimasu> then a message to the toolchanger prog that talks to a plc or somthing..
[14:27:46] <anonimasu> that resumes the program after the toolchange..
[14:27:55] <rayh> Certainly, simply put an m00 on the next line.
[14:28:13] <les> well M6 need to pause...send a signal...recieve a signal...and resume
[14:28:14] <rayh> Then it restarts with a <s>
[14:28:24] <anonimasu> rayh: will you come press continue for 12 hour job :) at each part..
[14:28:41] <anonimasu> for a..
[14:28:45] <anonimasu> it's not really a solution
[14:28:50] <rayh> If you look at the code in tkio you will see how to handle tool change.
[14:29:20] <rayh> The guy I visited in Antwerpen hacked the keyboard and the plc closed <s>
[14:29:42] <rayh> I've seen solenoids that press it also.
[14:29:46] <les> I do a manual cahnge with mo6Txx and then moo now
[14:29:50] <rayh> But that was back in the old days.
[14:29:55] <les> but automatic?
[14:30:26] <rayh> There are ini variables that will move the stuff to tool change position,
[14:30:53] <rayh> raise the spindle up of the tool then back down on the new and go to work.
[14:31:15] <rayh> The problem is that the logic is available but has to be done either in C or tickle.
[14:31:25] <alex_joni> rayh: thx.. I've seen there are only very few messages to it
[14:31:30] <rayh> We need ladder bad for these things.
[14:31:39] <alex_joni> rayh: I connected ladder with hal
[14:31:47] <alex_joni> but.. not necessarely the best way to go
[14:32:02] <rayh> alex_joni: Yes. And it would need to be implemented for each widget.
[14:32:34] <rayh> I saw that work you did with ladder. Great stuff.
[14:32:34] <alex_joni> the ladder stuff needs a lot of serious talks and decisions
[14:32:51] <alex_joni> yeah.. but I'm not really sure it's usefull (useable)
[14:32:58] <rayh> I hope that we can take the time to do that at NIST.
[14:33:03] <alex_joni> I mean.. for me it works
[14:33:12] <alex_joni> but les has no emc2 experience
[14:33:15] <alex_joni> right les?
[14:33:36] <alex_joni> and some stuff is still missing in emc2
[14:33:44] <rayh> Right now we can solve les's problem
[14:33:54] <rayh> in tickle but it is not at all trivial.
[14:34:04] <les> even something that talks to a physical plc would be fine for me
[14:34:05] <alex_joni> you can do it in .c or .sh
[14:34:11] <rayh> The tool commands are available through emcsh.
[14:34:25] <rayh> The io commands are available through iosh.
[14:34:27] <les> I will look at that
[14:34:37] <anonimasu> I should continue at my program later today
[14:34:40] <alex_joni> les: got nerve to look at emc2?
[14:34:48] <les> just wonder where io could come from
[14:34:48] <alex_joni> maybe classicladder too?
[14:34:54] <les> stg is used up
[14:34:59] <alex_joni> darn
[14:35:00] <rayh> So tkio has to send a message through a tickle socket to a new logic
[14:35:00] <les> parport perhaps
[14:35:07] <alex_joni> stg is missing from emc2
[14:35:31] <rayh> program running iosh and that program closes, or opens the plc contact.
[14:35:37] <narnia> les, good morning, how goes it?
[14:35:39] <alex_joni> rayh: think CL-NML interface could help
[14:35:49] <les> ok narnia
[14:35:50] <anonimasu> hm... :P
[14:35:53] <alex_joni> that's what paul_c suggested
[14:35:54] <rayh> Hi Terry.
[14:36:03] <rayh> alex_joni: exactly.
[14:36:06] <anonimasu> if you want somthing like that I could re-write my proggie to do that..
[14:36:07] <alex_joni> but... that would need a lot of new commands
[14:36:14] <rayh> That would make the task nearly trivial.
[14:36:22] <alex_joni> rayh: not really
[14:36:36] <alex_joni> you would still need to rework the interpreter to send those messages
[14:36:52] <les> anyway after several thousand manual tool changes I am getting a bit tired of it
[14:36:55] <rayh> Oh. The interp does send the tool change messages.
[14:37:02] <alex_joni> does?
[14:37:04] <anonimasu> ah
[14:37:08] <rayh> quite a stack of them.
[14:37:13] <alex_joni> hmmm.. well then ;)
[14:37:30] <alex_joni> what I think: what if I/O would be available from NC files?
[14:37:38] <les> I will look at the messages a M06 sends
[14:37:39] <alex_joni> set output/check input
[14:37:55] <alex_joni> and the user can connect (logically) to anything
[14:38:03] <anonimasu> hm.. yeah
[14:38:18] <alex_joni> because there might be more to IO than just tool-changers
[14:38:46] <les> only need to send a tool number
[14:38:52] <rayh> Absolutely. But the initial stuff is in there and would provide a model for how we can do it.
[14:38:54] <alex_joni> les: you
[14:39:01] <alex_joni> but other people would need more things
[14:39:03] <les> and recieve a confirmation
[14:39:18] <les> 4 bits of i/o would be plenty
[14:39:32] <les> (8 might be better heh)
[14:39:32] <rayh> See the initial K&T experiment at General Motors implemented a tool changer.
[14:39:35] <anonimasu> you can send stuff to a M command as it is today..
[14:39:45] <anonimasu> parameters but you cant return anything..
[14:39:47] <les> rah: I read about that
[14:39:50] <rayh> It had look ahead to move the next tool into an intermediate arm and all.
[14:40:54] <rayh> The logic for it was written in C and compiled for the VME bus which does not help us a whole lot.
[14:41:38] <rayh> When Matt came along with a bpt conversion, all the tool change nml was stubbed in
[14:41:47] <rayh> bridgeportio
[14:42:11] <les> hmm
[14:42:15] <rayh> When the nml for tool is sent, bptio replies, "did that, go on."
[14:42:55] <rayh> But you can break that return in either bptio or tkio and insert what you want.
[14:43:01] <les> oh ok
[14:43:17] <rayh> * rayh reads a bit of tickle in tkio.
[14:43:36] <les> but where to get i/otrying to remember if parport is all used up
[14:44:04] <les> let's see coolant, brake,...what else
[14:44:56] <rayh> There's lines ~100 to about 200 on tool change.
[14:45:13] <les> I let me bring that up
[14:45:28] <anonimasu> hm, couldnt you use the macro functionality that's been implemented into the interpreter
[14:45:37] <rayh> An ordinary parport can be 12 out and 5 in although you can change that around in tkio.
[14:45:39] <les> bptio.c?
[14:46:07] <rayh> Or add a ISA board like BSOF and get 48 io for < $100
[14:46:21] <les> that would be enough...but would not want to do away with collant, brake etc
[14:46:24] <rayh> tkio and iosh are the driver.
[14:46:43] <rayh> There is not need to write anything low level to do these sorts of IO tasks.
[14:46:50] <les> yeah
[14:47:00] <rayh> Unless you put the device on the PCI bus.
[14:48:17] <rayh> I wrote what I saw as the NML way to do these things in a chapter in the dev handbook.
[14:48:43] <alex_joni> rayh: mini is not in CVS?
[14:48:57] <rayh> You looking in emc2
[14:49:23] <rayh> emc/emctask/mini.tcl
[14:50:10] <alex_joni> emc2
[14:50:18] <alex_joni> no mini in emc2?
[14:50:20] <alex_joni> :(
[14:50:27] <rayh> Only in the bdi tag.
[14:50:37] <alex_joni> well that's emc1
[14:50:40] <alex_joni> not emc2 ;)
[14:51:11] <alex_joni> any reason for not adding mini to emc2?
[14:51:19] <rayh> Don't know the state of tickle in real emc2
[14:52:01] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll look into that later on
[14:52:03] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[14:52:05] <alex_joni> bye guys
[14:52:11] <rayh> If you've got a running emc2 you might move mini in there and just try it.
[14:52:11] <alex_joni> catch you later
[14:52:22] <rayh> See you later, alex.
[14:52:23] <alex_joni> that's what I plan
[14:52:35] <alex_joni> if it works I'll commit it, along with support in generic.run
[14:52:45] <rayh> Great. Thanks.
[14:53:01] <alex_joni> heh... no need to thank me
[14:53:06] <alex_joni> you wrote it ;)
[14:53:10] <alex_joni> I only play with it :D
[14:53:18] <rayh> It is already gpl
[14:53:24] <alex_joni> seen that
[14:54:15] <les> I just figure if I go ahead and do the spindle upgrade I might as well do auto tool change
[14:54:47] <rayh> You bet. Do you want a pick and place sort of thing or a tool change arm.
[14:55:04] <les> first segmenqueue testing...I can't run big spindles at modern speeds with the old TP
[14:55:29] <les> just a carousel or something
[14:55:53] <rayh> Got enough z to move the spindle up on a changer.
[14:56:11] <les> This has cropped up suddenly because I have a pending deal on a spindle
[14:56:12] <rayh> Or do you need to slide the tool into the spindle?
[14:56:26] <les> I can have the changer swing out
[14:56:30] <les> no problem
[14:56:50] <rayh> IMO we can implement any kind of changer you want.
[14:56:59] <rayh> Some geometries would be easier than others.
[14:57:00] <les> I can use one of those handy cheap superplcs like I am doing with the paint robot
[14:57:22] <rayh> AD-106
[14:57:26] <les> I JUST NEED A WAY TO TALK TO IT
[14:57:35] <les> shft stuck
[14:57:59] <rayh> It's okay to shout that.
[14:58:05] <rayh> I've been doing it for years.
[14:58:15] <les> $20heh
[14:58:48] <rayh> I do know of a combined emcsh and iosh that would let us do it all in one program.
[14:59:12] <les> $200 now buys one a little box with pid servo, stepper, gobs of analog and digital i/o and even some 4 amp h bridges
[14:59:37] <rayh> For $150, you could get a bsoft ISA and a 24 relay board.
[14:59:46] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[14:59:48] <anonimasu> damn.
[14:59:51] <anonimasu> I've lost a day.
[14:59:51] <les> yeah
[15:00:06] <les> why?
[15:00:07] <rayh> For $250 you can get that and a 24 isolated in also.
[15:00:13] <anonimasu> I dont know :)
[15:00:17] <les> heh
[15:00:26] <anonimasu> sleep deprevation maybe..
[15:00:39] <les> that will do it
[15:00:48] <rayh> Then the whole PLC shifts into the PC and directly reads NML and position.
[15:01:06] <les> that would be fine too
[15:01:25] <les> anyway I put a note on the wiki about this
[15:01:28] <anonimasu> hm, les can you send data via serial?
[15:01:30] <anonimasu> with your plc?
[15:01:32] <rayh> anonimasu: Is that a darn it's friday already or did you spend a day on wasted work?
[15:01:49] <anonimasu> oh.. darn it's friday..
[15:01:52] <les> all those manual changes made me think about this
[15:01:57] <anonimasu> I've got 2more days off..
[15:01:58] <les> serial would be fine
[15:02:27] <anonimasu> les: well, you could use my program for it then..
[15:02:28] <rayh> les: Is that an AutomationDirect plc
[15:02:56] <anonimasu> the only truble is how to get the interpreter to wait for the message to continue..
[15:03:00] <les> but I may have to make a quick decision about auto drwbar or not
[15:03:13] <les> let me pull up a link if I can find it
[15:03:22] <anonimasu> ok
[15:03:28] <rayh> No decision there, auto!
[15:03:55] <rayh> anonimasu: What's your stuff speak?
[15:04:04] <rayh> serial that is.
[15:04:12] <anonimasu> rayh: well, anything you would like..
[15:04:20] <anonimasu> rayh: I havent defined any protocol or somthing yet..
[15:04:33] <anonimasu> rayh: but it reads/matches strings if you like...
[15:04:47] <rayh> If les is using the AD series of plc's device net is internal.
[15:04:59] <rayh> 106 or newer.
[15:05:42] <les> http://www.tri-plc.com/t100md.htm
[15:07:13] <anonimasu> hm, could you set the tool, with a m4312 command..
[15:07:34] <anonimasu> then invoke a macro to move there and release the tool with another M command in the macro..
[15:07:38] <rayh> Oh. Okay I'll shut up about AutomationDirect.
[15:07:43] <anonimasu> then move down, pause the program..
[15:08:01] <anonimasu> and then resume it via a nml command when the plc says the change is done..
[15:08:53] <les> could...but I would be happy with just sending and recieving one byte toand from a box
[15:09:11] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[15:09:12] <les> that triplc has a lot of goodies for 200 bucks
[15:09:24] <anonimasu> but the motion is what I am worried about..
[15:09:46] <anonimasu> if the toolchange logic works so it moves where it's supposed to be you can pause and just resume the program after a comfrimation..
[15:09:58] <les> well the box can handle all the changer motions
[15:10:19] <les> just have to tell emc to pause till the box sends signal
[15:10:45] <les> oh and this certainly does not have to be real time
[15:11:58] <les> I know all this could be done in the host with enough i/o
[15:12:09] <les> but those boxes are so cheap
[15:12:54] <les> and just sending one byte, (and recieving one) is so generic and easy to implement
[15:13:15] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:13:38] <les> wonder if emc has anything to deal with rs232
[15:17:06] <les> I think not
[15:19:34] <les> bridgeportio uses up all the parport pins
[15:20:58] <les> stg is pretty much used up too
[15:21:06] <les> as far as dio
[15:24:28] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[15:24:45] <SWPadnos> does BridgeportIO use all the pins on both parports?
[15:24:59] <les> just one
[15:24:59] <rayh> les: But that is only if you send it to a paroprt.
[15:25:06] <les> right
[15:25:40] <les> yeah a second parport would be just fine
[15:26:32] <les> other boards like motenc are not so choked...plenty of i/o
[15:29:34] <les> so 0ne byte out for a tool chance enable, 6-8 for a tool number, and at least one in for change completion
[15:30:10] <les> no problem doing that with a second parport
[15:30:25] <les> other than parports are going away heh
[15:33:11] <SWPadnos> just send the tool number out on the parport data pins, and wait for STATUS or /BUSY to change - like a real printer
[15:33:17] <rayh> That is why I would not use a parport for this. With the price of dio these days.
[15:33:20] <SWPadnos> (from a PLC)
[15:33:30] <SWPadnos> you could just about use the Linux driver for the parport
[15:33:43] <les> fairly good argument ray
[15:33:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[15:33:57] <SWPadnos> even serial is a rare beastie these days
[15:34:02] <les> yes swp status/busy would be fine
[15:34:28] <rayh> At $3 bucks a pin, I can get 10 amp relay and 24 volt isolated in.
[15:34:47] <SWPadnos> opto22 is nearly your friend :)
[15:34:59] <rayh> With no need to cobble up a language between a parport and a PLC.
[15:35:25] <rayh> I grant you that a commercial PLC is more reliable than a Linux box.
[15:35:32] <les> yes I will agree that writing further communication for tool change, coolant, etc prob ought to be with an economical dio card
[15:36:16] <rayh> If you are stg you have ISA already.
[15:36:23] <les> right
[15:36:26] <anonimasu> hm.. serial ports wont go away for a while..
[15:36:42] <les> perhaps not
[15:36:47] <SWPadnos> true for industrial PCs, not as true for consumer
[15:37:18] <rayh> There are a number of inexpensive serial IO boxes out there.
[15:37:22] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: are you sure the DIO cards will be there for long also in that case?
[15:37:51] <les> I will google cheap dio cards...
[15:37:59] <SWPadnos> we talked about this yesterday, I think :)
[15:38:11] <SWPadnos> regarding the presence of ISA in the future
[15:38:37] <SWPadnos> It's already gone from the consumer world, but still readily available in industrial computers
[15:38:37] <paul_c> * paul_c returns with coffee
[15:38:50] <rayh> Hi Paul.
[15:39:00] <paul_c> Hi Ray, et al.
[15:39:07] <SWPadnos> Hi al
[15:39:11] <rayh> paul_c: those little beans or the sippable kind.
[15:39:21] <paul_c> liquid
[15:39:38] <rayh> * rayh likes that kind.
[15:39:39] <paul_c> hot, strong, sweet, and black.
[15:39:43] <les> yeah pretty cheap
[15:39:44] <les> http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/30488
[15:39:50] <les> hi paul
[15:40:47] <les> Talking more about toll changer...I think I have decided to do one for sure.If I am upgrading the spindle I might as well
[15:41:08] <les> lost countless hours doing manual changes
[15:41:20] <les> usually 20+ each day
[15:41:51] <les> sometimes 30 or 40
[15:42:07] <les> it gets old I'm here to tell you
[15:42:56] <SWPadnos> do you use 20-30 different tools, or does the process require the same tool multiple times?
[15:43:17] <les> use 6-8
[15:43:22] <les> repeating
[15:43:40] <SWPadnos> OK - so you do a stock swap between groups of 6-8 tools?
[15:43:59] <SWPadnos> (workpiece change)
[15:44:08] <les> not with the current pallet system
[15:44:27] <les> wooden things don't always respond well to moving
[15:44:32] <rayh> http://www.bsof.com/
[15:46:11] <rayh> Well guys it's been fun.
[15:46:20] <jepler> that page (bsof) is giving my browser fits
[15:46:21] <rayh> catch you all later.
[15:46:34] <SWPadnos> it's a slow and poorly written page
[15:46:34] <jepler> are those things all java applets or something?
[15:46:42] <SWPadnos> it looks that way
[15:46:56] <les> messing up mine too
[15:47:23] <les> anyway SWP changing pallets is not always an option for me
[15:47:31] <les> sometimes it is
[15:47:55] <les> and it seems like I am driven toward more and more tools for a job
[15:48:05] <les> formed tools
[15:48:25] <les> so I don't have to raster carve 3-d studd
[15:48:26] <SWPadnos> I was just wondering if you had exhausted all the possibilities for eliminating toolchanges in your programs
[15:48:37] <SWPadnos> I figured you had, but thought I'd prod you anyway :)
[15:48:42] <les> heh
[15:48:51] <paul_c> The whole question of IO control needs to be addressed - For the hobby grade stuff, it isn't required, but for industrial machines, it is....
[15:49:01] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[15:49:04] <les> yeah
[15:49:12] <paul_c> the question is...
[15:49:17] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:49:18] <anonimasu> http://www.bsof.com/a360prod.htm
[15:49:30] <anonimasu> could you use a card like that instead of a vital/stg?
[15:49:32] <paul_c> Should it be part of the interpreter, or an external bolt-on ?
[15:50:02] <paul_c> anonimasu: No encoder counters.
[15:50:08] <anonimasu> paul_c: it has counters..
[15:50:25] <SWPadnos> does "standard" G code have I/O commands?
[15:50:28] <les> well it would be an awful lot of work to use axes for various motors and sensors in something like a tool change
[15:50:41] <les> when the external boxes are so cheap
[15:50:44] <anonimasu> yeah..
[15:51:01] <SWPadnos> the counters are 8254's - rate counters or event counters. they aren't quadrature counters
[15:51:07] <les> so I would be satisfied with just a byte or two to communicate with them
[15:51:37] <paul_c> anonimasu: It has "counters", but they are 8254.
[15:51:45] <anonimasu> paul_c: yeah I get the diff..
[15:51:54] <SWPadnos> man - I wonder what they're doing with two huge FPGAs on that omega board???
[15:53:11] <les> don't know..but it's cheap
[15:53:16] <SWPadnos> true enough
[15:53:16] <paul_c> SWPadnos: The M words are for IO control...
[15:53:19] <les> not as cheap as the isa ones
[15:53:51] <SWPadnos> OK - and other than a few that are predefined, they can basically mean whatever you want?
[15:54:27] <paul_c> There are a whole bunch reserved for specific tasks...
[15:54:57] <SWPadnos> Hmmm - Omega says "buffered I/O", but it's not isolated or protected as far as I can see
[15:55:31] <les> I understand that M06 has a do nothing stub already for tool change
[15:55:53] <les> although I know it sets offsets
[15:57:40] <paul_c> From what I remember, bridgeportio receives the M06 message
[16:00:27] <les> and just considers it already done as far as the physical change and continues
[16:01:22] <les> Seems like this hinges on just grabbin some dio
[16:01:41] <paul_c> would need to look at the task control to see if it waits for an ack from bridgeportio before continuing
[16:01:50] <les> Ray argues that a second parport might not be a good way
[16:02:01] <les> simply because parports are vanishing
[16:02:48] <paul_c> What is required is an IO controller that can use any IO port, not just the parport.
[16:02:51] <les> Some of that stuff they did long ago on that K&T must still be there
[16:03:07] <les> sounds wise paul
[16:03:18] <SWPadnos> sounds like HAl
[16:03:22] <SWPadnos> HAL
[16:03:23] <les> heh
[16:03:28] <SWPadnos> open the pod bay doors
[16:04:07] <anonimasu> hm, are there any listing of all the NML messages
[16:04:14] <les> Well I am going to go for the auto drawbar spindle then
[16:04:19] <paul_c> SWPadnos: A general purpose IO controller that can use existing h/w drivers or HAL if it ever becomes viable.
[16:04:38] <anonimasu> I wish I could fit a auto drawbar :/
[16:04:43] <paul_c> anonimasu: emc.hh
[16:05:03] <les> This depends on segmentqueue too since I cannot use high power high speed spindles with the old TP
[16:05:17] <anonimasu> paul_c: thanks :)
[16:05:57] <les> but I would find a way....I just can't have my productivity cut by 50 or 75% anymore.
[16:06:14] <les> so up the power
[16:06:47] <paul_c> les: If I beat up segmentgueue to build on a BDI-4 install
[16:07:06] <paul_c> and put together a ready to run box...
[16:07:46] <paul_c> Can we pull the STG card and lug it in to the new box to run some serious tests ?
[16:07:58] <les> sure
[16:08:24] <paul_c> sodit... That means I'll have to hack up an STGII driver too.
[16:08:34] <les> at some point the gold on the contacts goes...but I think it can hndle prob 100 insertions
[16:09:16] <paul_c> I can bring along another STGII card if needed.
[16:09:51] <les> if it's convenient
[16:10:12] <cradek> be sure you check out the segmentqueue bugs I submitted to the tracker recently.
[16:10:13] <les> thinking about cables reaching
[16:10:44] <les> no problem...I can route them around
[16:10:57] <les> hi cradek
[16:10:59] <paul_c> four slot passive backplane - Will fit in just about anywhere.
[16:11:01] <cradek> hello
[16:11:22] <les> production is nearly done and am preparing to beat up servo segmentqueue
[16:12:54] <les> Big issue since I am trying to source a big spindle
[16:13:09] <les> cannot run it with the old TP
[16:13:29] <paul_c> cradek: Just read the bug reports.
[16:14:07] <cradek> I found those while testing the AXIS 1.0 release
[16:14:12] <cradek> at first we thought they were
[16:14:15] <cradek> AXIS bugs
[16:14:49] <les> got a quick link to the reports?
[16:15:05] <paul_c> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=6744&atid=106744
[16:15:11] <les> thanks
[16:18:06] <les> at least those aren't planning errors
[16:18:17] <les> like I saw earlier
[16:18:42] <les> second one could give someone a start
[16:18:53] <les> lterally
[16:18:55] <les> heh
[16:20:23] <les> before as you recall it would stop dead
[16:20:41] <les> and also misplan long straight moves
[16:20:51] <les> with too low a velocity
[16:22:58] <cradek> I think that can still happens sometimes.
[16:23:08] <cradek> it's a failsafe mode when the planner can't figure out something or other
[16:23:12] <cradek> would have to read the paper again.
[16:23:36] <les> hmm
[16:23:58] <les> when it's a cut it burns the work
[16:24:27] <les> is it a hard coded number?
[16:25:14] <les> or calculated from some programmed feed?
[16:25:23] <cradek> I'm trying to find it...
[16:26:08] <les> just grabbed the paper off the bookshelf
[16:26:54] <paul_c> OH For... FS...
[16:27:18] <paul_c> emcsegmot.c is virtually the same as emcmot.c
[16:27:45] <paul_c> the only changes appear to be in the commandHandler...
[16:27:57] <cradek> paul_c: no shit
[16:28:05] <cradek> paul_c: pisses me off to no end
[16:28:21] <cradek> and somebody ran indent on one of them to make it even harder.
[16:28:30] <anonimasu> heh
[16:29:52] <cradek> iirc emcsegmot.c already has the code to run either planner (because tp is used for jogging)
[16:30:15] <paul_c> tpAddLine replaced with coord_add_line
[16:30:27] <paul_c> ine EMCMOT_SET_LINE
[16:30:29] <cradek> les: I can't find what I thought was there, so I must be wrong
[16:30:41] <cradek> les: it's probably just another bug
[16:32:10] <paul_c> cradek: Give me a couple of days to kick this around and split out the real differences.
[16:32:26] <cradek> you can have all the time you want by me
[16:32:42] <paul_c> chears Bud !
[16:33:05] <cradek> (I was tempted to do it too)
[16:33:49] <paul_c> Makes more sense to do it ine te bdi-4 branch where emcmot.c has been split already.
[16:34:15] <cradek> well I don't use that branch
[16:34:52] <paul_c> Are you using RTAI or RTLinux ?
[16:34:55] <cradek> rtlinux
[16:35:02] <paul_c> oh poo...
[16:35:10] <les> oh on a default low velocity...I think there is a 2:1 accel fudge...
[16:35:14] <cradek> it doesn't matter, I can still work in HEAD if I want to work on segmentqueue
[16:35:26] <cradek> les: that's certainly true
[16:35:33] <cradek> les: that's explicitly in the paper
[16:36:30] <les> so that might be a 4:1 velocity error some times (like circular motion)
[16:36:54] <cradek> paul_c: maybe we should wait until after fest (and after les's testing) to unbotch emc*mot.c
[16:37:18] <cradek> les: no, that half-accel fudge is always in effect since it can spike over that amount
[16:37:31] <cradek> les: I don't think this bug is related to that
[16:38:15] <les> hmm ok
[16:38:35] <les> don't see anything else in the paper
[16:38:48] <les> but the paper is not the code hehe
[16:38:48] <cradek> ok, I imagined that
[16:38:53] <cradek> it must just be another bug.
[16:38:58] <les> yeah
[16:39:23] <paul_c> cradek: There are other issues to resolve regarding the bdi-4 branch and emc2 in general - It will get debated at the codeFest for sure..
[16:39:56] <cradek> yeah I can see where there might be some argument over what to do with HEAD
[16:40:02] <les> I often observed it planning smooth but inappropriately slow motions
[16:40:35] <cradek> les: it would be nice if we could find a minimal program that does this. because it's asynchronous, it's pretty hard to debug with a complex program.
[16:43:38] <anonimasu> does the motion planning?
[16:43:56] <les> I could work on that
[16:44:21] <les> something that you can single step easily?
[16:44:53] <les> and is nice and small?
[16:44:56] <cradek> my approach before was to examine the queue state after each segment is added.
[16:45:13] <les> ok
[16:45:22] <cradek> single stepping doesn't really help, because the planning is already done long ago.
[16:45:41] <les> Well the old tencom had lots of planning errors but it is a huge inconvinient file
[16:45:54] <les> oops
[16:46:28] <cradek> it would be nice to have a secular program that demonstrates the bug, to rule out divine intervention.
[16:46:46] <les> I will try to find something little and secular
[16:47:24] <les> no code of hammurabi or anything...
[16:47:53] <les> There is some question in my mind between 2-d and 3-d planning
[16:48:29] <anonimasu> hm, i fyou do write it will you write it for rotary aswell?
[16:48:32] <cradek> yeah, pretty much all of my big programs are 2.5D although I did run some basic 3d tests
[16:48:47] <cradek> anonimasu: write what?
[16:48:58] <anonimasu> motion plan?
[16:49:08] <cradek> I'm not writing a new planner
[16:49:12] <les> anon it should be checked thoroughly with rotarry...but I am not set up for that
[16:49:28] <cradek> segmentqueue has zero support for >3 axes
[16:49:40] <les> hmm
[16:49:50] <les> well I'll gladly take the 3
[16:50:52] <anonimasu> oh, I dont really care for more then 3...
[16:52:06] <les> I built my machine for an easy retro to 5, but I have to face the fact that practical 5 axis cam is not something I can afford
[16:52:15] <les> the mechanics are easy
[16:53:19] <les> forward and reverse kinematics fairly easy
[16:53:48] <SWPadnos> les: remember Rab for 5-axis CAM
[16:54:32] <les> yes
[16:55:55] <les> I have not checked out his stuff for a while
[17:00:43] <les> well us eastern US types wander off to lunch...
[17:01:55] <SWPadnos> Lunch? I haven't ecen had breakfast yet :)
[17:01:58] <SWPadnos> even
[17:07:26] <les> I didn't get breakfast or lunch till about 3 jan and feb
[17:07:41] <les> So I want both now
[17:07:56] <SWPadnos> I can't wait until next January for breakfast :)
[17:08:46] <les> did glance at the sub optimal solutions used for no cuising phase segments
[17:08:55] <les> there is a fudge number in there
[17:09:18] <cradek> is that only used when linking fails?
[17:09:40] <les> page 23
[17:10:34] <les> x is the number
[17:10:40] <les> currently 5?
[17:10:46] <les> must be >2
[17:12:11] <les> in 4.4.33
[17:14:58] <les> there are some Taylor's series truncations in 4.5.2 for circular motions but that seems ok
[17:18:19] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is happy
[17:18:27] <anonimasu> loads of good NML messages.
[17:19:06] <anonimasu> you can pause it via nml..
[17:19:13] <anonimasu> and then resume it when the plc says the change is done.
[17:22:51] <les> cool
[17:23:52] <les> cradek it appears that as the factor x is increased the number of unplannable segments also increases
[17:24:14] <les> in 4.4.33 and 4.4.35
[17:25:05] <les> x being number of steps to get to the maximum increment
[17:25:45] <les> sorry no...x is criusing phase steps
[17:25:54] <les> i think
[17:26:36] <les> yeah
[17:26:42] <paul_c> If the tpQueue struct was removed from emcmotDebug, we could get rid of the wrappers used in emcsegmot.c
[17:27:02] <les> so specifying big x means more short segments will fail 4.4.35
[17:27:28] <les> Hi lawrence
[17:28:11] <les> Paul: so no separate emcsegmot?
[17:28:17] <LawrenceG> les...greetings from Canada.... how is it in the south?
[17:28:23] <les> just specify the motion program and go?
[17:28:41] <les> sunny and 22c
[17:29:02] <paul_c> les: Taking a close look at the diffs between emcmot.c and emcsegmot.c
[17:29:12] <les> k
[17:29:24] <les> not much I gather
[17:29:38] <paul_c> minor
[17:31:31] <anonimasu> hm
[17:31:31] <anonimasu> iab..
[17:42:42] <paul_c> Arrrggg... emcsegmot uses cubic, tp, and sq in the main loop.
[17:43:24] <les> wonderful.
[17:44:40] <les> it still does a second cubic subinterpolation at the servo rate i guess
[17:44:46] <paul_c> cradek: I think you are right - Use the codeFest to find out exactly what the intent was behind much of this code...
[17:44:48] <les> which seems redundant
[17:45:24] <les> get a hot line to Rogier...
[17:46:43] <paul_c> there are a number of loops that get repeated.... same code, just different if(conditions)
[17:47:19] <les> tp may be a default if some sq function returns -1
[17:47:36] <les> well if linking fails
[17:49:36] <les> or if a non sq motion program is used?
[17:50:05] <les> for me newstgmod.0= TP
[17:50:20] <les> newstgsegmod.o=sq
[17:51:15] <les> but I don't know...can't follow that stuff...just the math in the paper
[17:53:52] <les> carefully looking at the paper I find exactly two (and only two) fudge factors arbitrarily assigned and on truncated series
[17:54:31] <les> about the only thing things that might alter function other than just math typos
[17:55:02] <les> beyond that it's code...
[17:56:34] <les> I take it that if the emcsegmot source is present at build time that only that is compiled and called?
[17:56:40] <les> not emcmot?
[17:58:01] <paul_c> emcsegmot.c is virtually the same as emcmot.c
[17:58:23] <les> well which one gets used?
[17:58:41] <les> I don't know much about makefiles and gcc pp directives
[17:59:26] <paul_c> emcseqmot.c will get used for the seg*mod
[17:59:42] <les> ok
[18:00:03] <les> so they are both compiled but called by the particular motion program?
[18:00:54] <paul_c> they are both compiled, yes.
[18:00:54] <les> but they are both almost the same?
[18:01:00] <les> hmm
[18:01:01] <les> ok
[18:01:23] <les> I guess I understand your argg
[18:01:48] <paul_c> but which *mod.o you are building determines which one gets linked (and therefor used.)
[18:02:01] <les> ok I understand
[18:02:52] <paul_c> kinda like having three BMW gearboxes with different reverse gear ratios
[18:03:02] <les> heh
[18:03:18] <paul_c> and fitting one to te truck, another to the car, and the third as a spare.
[18:03:52] <paul_c> They all do the same job, and the guts are all the same apart from a small change...
[18:04:33] <les> I take it you don't consider that the epitome of programming style?
[18:04:35] <les> heh
[18:04:50] <paul_c> * paul_c defers to cradek
[18:04:55] <les> haw
[18:06:05] <paul_c> If there is a common bug that gets fixed in one, someone needs to fix it in all the others...
[18:06:27] <les> I just want the machine to not do the hokey pokey
[18:06:38] <paul_c> If we just had one source file, the bug would get fixed in all modules without any additional effort.
[18:06:42] <les> but I understand that that complicates bugfixes
[18:06:52] <les> right
[18:07:52] <paul_c> right - It also raises the possibility that a bug will affect one, but not another module, so time is wasted looking in the wrong sources.
[18:08:01] <les> yes
[18:08:24] <paul_c> for example, a bug in seg*mod
[18:08:38] <paul_c> that has been fixed in emcmot.c
[18:08:55] <les> yeah
[18:09:10] <paul_c> so is the bug in seqmentqueue.c or in emcsegmot.c
[18:09:23] <les> which happened for a while with the ferror thing I think
[18:10:01] <paul_c> more than likely.
[18:10:46] <paul_c> And if I were to add another command to emcmotCommandHandler, you would get error messages with seg*mod
[18:10:46] <les> oh it did...I added it in a text editor and recompiled...
[18:11:00] <les> ooh nasty
[18:11:45] <paul_c> We MUST sort out this mess at NIST.
[18:12:02] <les> sounds like a plan
[18:12:24] <les> Understand that Fred says he does not know how sq works
[18:12:38] <paul_c> don't need to...
[18:12:56] <les> yeah I guess not
[18:13:08] <paul_c> This is more about re-use of code rather than copying into new source files.
[18:13:20] <les> I see
[18:14:46] <paul_c> Like you wanting to re-use one ngc file with work offsets, rather than cut'n'pasting 20 parts.
[18:15:06] <les> right
[18:15:19] <SWPadnos> les: where can I find the segmentqueue doc you were reading?
[18:15:40] <les> I think a lot of the sq complexity came from dealing with quasi real time feed overides
[18:16:08] <les> swp...in a report in my office heh...and...
[18:16:14] <les> gosh where is it?
[18:16:17] <SWPadnos> well that's no help :)
[18:16:38] <les> oh it's somewhere on sf
[18:16:52] <paul_c> Having read the paper, I suspect much of what Roiger is doing could be done in usr space.
[18:17:42] <les> paul: yes only adapting to feedoverides complicates that
[18:17:54] <les> but then those are in user space right?
[18:18:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs emc died on me..
[18:19:54] <anonimasu> :/
[18:20:03] <les> swp paper is on this page:
[18:20:07] <les> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/emc/emc/doc/
[18:21:13] <les> but in general trajectory planning can be done milliseconds before or two weeks before
[18:21:23] <les> it's just a transform
[18:21:46] <les> unless someone changes the constraints in the middle
[18:21:52] <les> like feed override
[18:22:30] <les> if numerical methods are used everything has to be recalculated
[18:23:48] <SWPadnos> Thanks, I found the paper
[18:24:08] <paul_c> linking short segments (especially when they are on the same vector) can, and should be done in usr space.
[18:24:09] <les> at least with the computationally efficient pilosophy of multiple segment linking that segmentqueue uses
[18:24:48] <les> it can be done with less efficiency with only four point look ahead
[18:25:34] <les> I think the computational efficiency issue vanish years ago because of fast computers
[18:25:46] <les> segmentqueue is what 6 years old
[18:26:25] <SWPadnos> so are the computers people use to run EMC
[18:26:34] <les> heh
[18:26:37] <paul_c> <ouch>
[18:26:44] <SWPadnos> (especially ISA :) )
[18:26:51] <les> I HEAR YOU
[18:26:59] <les> arg
[18:27:12] <SWPadnos> HEH - I THOUGHT YOU WERE SHOUTING THAT TIME
[18:27:15] <SWPadnos> :)
[18:27:29] <paul_c> SWPadnos: What spec computer do you use for EMC ??
[18:27:50] <les> this is another beta keyboard I am testing...and my freind did not fix the stick
[18:27:56] <SWPadnos> a celeron 500 with 512M PC-133 SDRAM
[18:28:06] <les> friend
[18:28:18] <SWPadnos> so that's more or less a 3-4 year old machine spec
[18:28:52] <SWPadnos> (hmmm - maybe older - my main machine is an Athlon 1800 (1.533GHz), and I bought it 4 years ago)
[18:29:29] <les> the cnc runs on an old k-6 200 isa
[18:29:47] <les> stg means go search the trash heap for boxes
[18:29:51] <SWPadnos> then you're definitely concerned about computational efficiency
[18:30:35] <les> oh fred, rogier, and I tested that with segmentqueue by slowing things down
[18:30:44] <les> no effect
[18:31:10] <les> actually virtually any cnc ap is not demending
[18:31:10] <SWPadnos> well - you do get 200k machine cycles per update cycle, so you should be able to accomplish a little math
[18:31:36] <les> a modern desktop box could run a wholr room of cnc machines
[18:31:49] <SWPadnos> if you throw in step generation, then you significantly reduce the available planning cycles
[18:32:01] <paul_c> * paul_c disappears for tea.
[18:32:06] <SWPadnos> enjoy
[18:32:22] <les> yes...but guys who have to make a living with these things can't use steppers
[18:32:25] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos needs to go to England - we're almost out of good tea :)
[18:32:44] <SWPadnos> step -> servo, like Gecko or Rutex can be used
[18:32:54] <les> yes
[18:33:18] <SWPadnos> but I agree - high speed will demand faster processors, and probably external hardware
[18:33:57] <les> but for industrial full servo (where the box knows where things are) the price is not much different
[18:34:22] <les> can't use emc's ferror and feedforward stuff with step to servo
[18:34:43] <SWPadnos> $700 buys 3 geckos, a USC, and a GSI - allowing full position feedback to EMC
[18:35:25] <SWPadnos> the trouble is instantaneous velocity, which is easier to get with an analog tach
[18:35:32] <les> full servo is about double
[18:35:43] <les> wich is pocket change for industrial
[18:35:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - I already went over budget with $700 :)
[18:36:29] <SWPadnos> (being not-quite-industrial-yet)
[18:36:44] <les> right now $570 for motenc card, 225 for 3 copleys, and servos.
[18:36:57] <SWPadnos> 225 each?
[18:37:13] <SWPadnos> (of course)
[18:37:23] <les> copley 412s are being sold for 75 buck each
[18:37:24] <les> new
[18:37:30] <les> 20 amp 90v
[18:37:39] <SWPadnos> hmm - not bad
[18:37:46] <les> I shouls say
[18:37:59] <les> That is what I run
[18:38:14] <les> set up as voltage controlled current sources
[18:38:36] <SWPadnos> that's 20A peak, 10A continuous
[18:38:42] <les> 12 cont
[18:39:10] <les> they don't pop like geckos either
[18:39:35] <SWPadnos> that's the 413 - 15A cont, 30A peak
[18:39:41] <SWPadnos> the 412 shows 10/20
[18:39:49] <les> my mistake
[18:40:10] <SWPadnos> eh - no problem.
[18:40:20] <SWPadnos> the geckos are 20A continuous though
[18:40:44] <les> I seldom exceed 5 even pushing around 500kg
[18:41:10] <SWPadnos> I hate web sites that won't give you prices without filling in forms
[18:41:19] <les> me too
[18:41:31] <les> and it's dumb on their part
[18:41:54] <SWPadnos> yeah - cause I immediately close that window and move on to the site that has prices
[18:42:03] <les> exactly
[18:43:43] <les> anyway with full servo and emc you can use all the fetures
[18:44:08] <les> and even add things like feedforward functions rather than constants
[18:44:16] <les> stuff like that
[18:44:32] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:44:55] <les> Don't get me wrong Geckos are fine
[18:44:56] <SWPadnos> do you know any references (that are downloadable :) ) on PIDFF control
[18:45:06] <les> but not so much for industrial stuff
[18:45:12] <SWPadnos> I haven't seen much in my quick searches
[18:45:28] <les> hmm
[18:45:31] <les> let me check
[18:45:38] <SWPadnos> yeah - I think they're fine for a Bridgeport, but a larger machine would need something bigger
[18:46:34] <jepler> SWPadnos: what is "a GSI"?
[18:46:47] <les> I just googled it...zillions of good links
[18:46:48] <SWPadnos> Jon Elson's Gecko Servo Interface
[18:47:02] <jepler> SWPadnos: ah, thanks
[18:47:16] <les> most modern controllers use feedforward
[18:47:23] <les> arguably all
[18:47:24] <SWPadnos> http://www.pico-systems.com/gecko.html
[18:47:40] <les> if they don't have it they are not modern!
[18:47:45] <SWPadnos> heh :)
[18:48:24] <SWPadnos> the GSI reminds me - how do you deal with various stop conditions?
[18:48:55] <les> I don't know what Jon does
[18:49:08] <SWPadnos> I'm curious about your implementation
[18:49:20] <les> I just use estop sense and stuff like that
[18:49:33] <SWPadnos> There are a bunch of options and requirements , depending on what you want to do
[18:49:33] <les> in a hardwired stop system
[18:49:51] <les> industrial stuff is required to be hardwired
[18:49:54] <SWPadnos> so, if an axis faults, does that cause an e-stop, or is it treated differently?
[18:50:00] <les> cannot depend on computer
[18:50:05] <SWPadnos> of course not
[18:50:41] <les> axis fault on mine goes to soft estop only
[18:51:08] <les> spindle keeps turning
[18:51:18] <SWPadnos> OK - so if a drive faults, or a software limit is exceeded, you just gracefully stop motion, and notify the operator
[18:51:55] <les> If drive faults spindle stops, servos disconnect and short throug 10 ohm braking resistors
[18:52:23] <SWPadnos> OK - at that point you don't care about losing position
[18:53:03] <les> I have the option of doing the same with things like ferror but have found that it makes a mess
[18:53:19] <les> so I soft stop just for that
[18:53:26] <les> servo loop stays closed
[18:53:44] <SWPadnos> soft stop = operator hits a button and things start up again?
[18:53:54] <les> hitting a limit will hard stop
[18:54:06] <les> loss of power will too
[18:54:50] <les> a board I made but have not insalled will hard or soft stop if spindle rpm drops below a certain value
[18:55:15] <SWPadnos> do you have spindle speed control from emc?
[18:55:36] <les> I have speed control but not from emc
[18:55:39] <SWPadnos> OK
[18:56:01] <les> don't want to mess with that much now since I am totally changing spindles
[18:56:06] <SWPadnos> yeah
[18:56:17] <les> I also understand emc has some problems with that
[18:56:34] <SWPadnos> synchronization issues, or driver related?
[18:56:46] <les> I can turn spindle on and off with emc
[18:56:52] <les> but do not
[18:56:56] <les> don't trust it
[18:57:06] <les> driver I guess
[18:57:23] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[18:57:49] <les> kinda like that router workshop tv guy with the big blister on his head haha
[18:58:04] <les> he unplugs the thing while changing bits
[18:58:06] <SWPadnos> uh - yeah - haven't seen that one
[18:58:38] <SWPadnos> I know someone that would unplug nearly everything in the house before going to work
[18:58:44] <SWPadnos> just to prevent fires
[18:58:57] <les> heh I don't go that far...
[18:59:37] <les> but having my hands around a sharp carbide bit that is hooked to a machine under emc control...
[18:59:41] <les> no thanks.
[18:59:56] <SWPadnos> heh - that's what the "manual disconnect" is for :)
[19:00:18] <les> I have an over ride switch
[19:00:30] <les> but one would forget to use it
[19:00:35] <SWPadnos> well - the toolchanger should fix that problem anyway :)
[19:00:40] <les> yeah
[19:01:14] <les> have to have some positive sensors indicating good tool engagement
[19:01:31] <SWPadnos> what taper spindle do you have?
[19:01:36] <les> otherwise big bullets flying around
[19:01:46] <les> like cat40 tool holders haha
[19:01:56] <robin_sz> meep!
[19:02:02] <les> hi robin
[19:02:02] <SWPadnos> mo
[19:02:05] <SWPadnos> mop
[19:02:06] <robin_sz> hi les
[19:02:14] <robin_sz> SWPadnos, hi too :)
[19:02:19] <SWPadnos> hi there :)
[19:02:31] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has "life decisions" to make
[19:02:48] <les> don't do it robin
[19:03:04] <robin_sz> just got offered a job in Geneva ...
[19:03:11] <SWPadnos> bork bork bork
[19:03:19] <SWPadnos> (though that's swedish)
[19:03:23] <les> I know you like it there
[19:03:27] <les> I do too
[19:03:46] <robin_sz> with all the hardships of the engineering business its tempting
[19:03:56] <SWPadnos> gotta run for a bit - be back later
[19:04:22] <les> I think I would live in Nice if I had unlimited resources
[19:04:28] <les> later
[19:04:34] <les> part of the time
[19:04:50] <les> I like that town
[19:05:02] <robin_sz> perhaps if I can find someone to run some laser cutting out of my shop, pay the rent and themselves, send me a bit from time to time ...
[19:05:15] <les> yeah...
[19:05:35] <robin_sz> hmmm
[19:05:38] <les> well I have no desire to be an employee again
[19:06:03] <les> even though it might be more money on average
[19:06:33] <les> they want me back inchicago....
[19:06:57] <les> even keep pension senority and stuff
[19:07:13] <les> So it's some money and security
[19:07:21] <les> but I just don't want to
[19:07:48] <les> I enjoy working for them as a hired gun though
[19:08:21] <robin_sz> well, the money would be nice
[19:08:37] <robin_sz> and its a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity
[19:09:02] <les> oh damn you're gonna do it...I can tell
[19:09:09] <robin_sz> heh :)
[19:09:12] <robin_sz> not sure ...
[19:09:28] <les> well it's a damn nice place
[19:09:34] <robin_sz> I think I'll do the "get someone in to run lasercutting" anyway
[19:09:45] <les> cost of living?
[19:09:56] <les> didn't seem too bad to me there
[19:10:07] <robin_sz> live in France, work in geneva on a swiss salary
[19:10:16] <les> hmmm
[19:10:25] <robin_sz> and its a director-level appointment too
[19:10:25] <les> grenoble or something?
[19:10:33] <les> oh
[19:10:36] <robin_sz> no, closer
[19:10:55] <robin_sz> Annemasse or Bonneville perhaps
[19:11:02] <les> director level
[19:11:36] <robin_sz> oh well. more decisions :)
[19:11:38] <Jymmm> Damn, HF is OOS on the minimill
[19:11:52] <les> I guess my pinnacle was manager of reseach and development...at least at the corporation
[19:12:11] <les> hi jymmm
[19:12:18] <Jymmm> Hey les!
[19:12:21] <Jymmm> robin_sz =)
[19:12:36] <les> Robin: Aw you're gonna take it
[19:12:58] <les> unless mrs. S is not keen on it
[19:14:10] <les> live in french country villa?
[19:14:35] <Jymmm> surrounded by grape vines!
[19:14:47] <les> I was amazed there that I could actually aford to rent a 2000 year old roman villa
[19:15:00] <les> (barely)
[19:15:07] <les> that was in Lyon
[19:15:20] <les> Lyon is not expensive
[19:15:54] <Jymmm> Does it take two copters and in-flight refueling to get there?
[19:18:06] <les> ha
[19:18:37] <les> I really like Europe
[19:18:56] <Jymmm> the land? history? culture?
[19:19:24] <les> We in the colonies have to get over that 4 cars in the driveway giant paper-like barn house bit we seem to want
[19:19:32] <les> yes to all
[19:20:03] <les> food is so much better
[19:20:08] <les> ours is poison
[19:20:12] <Jymmm> What's worse out here (SF Area) is everything is like srdines
[19:20:18] <Jymmm> sardines
[19:20:21] <les> heh
[19:20:33] <Jymmm> iirc the poluation is like 9000 per sq mile
[19:20:46] <les> Less than 10 here
[19:20:55] <les> average for county
[19:21:04] <Jymmm> compared to 1800 per sq mile on the national avg.
[19:21:27] <les> that much? i'm surprised
[19:21:30] <Jymmm> I WANT LAND DMANIT!
[19:21:44] <Jymmm> Just gimme a few acres and I'll be happy
[19:21:45] <les> with all that nothing between colorado and california
[19:21:56] <Jymmm> Yep, but AZ has water issues
[19:22:04] <les> yeah
[19:22:20] <les> hey brb...cooking late lunch
[19:22:23] <Jymmm> SoCal has some areas (hi desert) that are not bad.
[19:22:25] <Jymmm> ok
[19:30:10] <SWPadnos> 1800 has to be an average for "towns" or something - we'd need about 2 trillion residents for that over the whole country
[19:30:55] <SWPadnos> wait a sec - 144 would be more like it
[19:34:28] <robin_sz> * robin_sz has a few acres
[19:37:40] <robin_sz> * robin_sz advertises for a factory manager
[19:42:43] <SWPadnos> will you pay for relocation?
[19:42:59] <robin_sz> lets put it this way ...
[19:43:16] <robin_sz> * robin_sz rattles his piggy bank
[19:43:24] <robin_sz> can you hear anyting?
[19:43:32] <SWPadnos> I'll take that as a *NO*
[19:43:58] <robin_sz> take that as a YES if you can get enough work in ;)
[19:44:13] <SWPadnos> deal :)
[19:44:17] <les> ah back from lunch
[19:44:36] <SWPadnos> (not that I've ever managed a machine shop before :) )
[19:44:41] <les> so...these are the guys you have been working with for a while right robin?
[19:44:54] <robin_sz> les: yeah
[19:45:01] <robin_sz> SWPadnos: me neither ;)
[19:45:33] <les> since I stayed mostly in the lake constance area I think of switzeland as mostly german
[19:45:44] <les> but geneva mostly french right?
[19:45:46] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:45:46] <robin_sz> geneva is mainly french
[19:45:57] <robin_sz> I might not even go ..
[19:46:06] <SWPadnos> c'est tres bon, mais je ne parle pas Francais.
[19:46:07] <robin_sz> but I will get someoen to develop the laser cutting side
[19:46:30] <robin_sz> worry not, the factory in in the UK
[19:46:44] <les> is it a director of engineering sort of thing?
[19:46:45] <SWPadnos> right then, cheerio
[19:46:46] <robin_sz> its me that might, and I stress might, go to geneva
[19:46:57] <SWPadnos> (I do speak English as well as American)
[19:47:18] <robin_sz> les: hell no. these guys are auctioneers, no metalwork involved :)
[19:47:39] <les> ??
[19:47:46] <les> machine tool sales?
[19:47:52] <robin_sz> no, stamps
[19:48:03] <les> what
[19:48:07] <robin_sz> stamps.
[19:48:10] <les> for a EE?
[19:48:21] <robin_sz> bits of paper, with pictures of dead people on them
[19:48:37] <les> heh
[19:48:43] <les> I'm confused
[19:48:48] <SWPadnos> I see dead people
[19:48:52] <SWPadnos> (on stamps)
[19:49:05] <robin_sz> how so confused?
[19:49:30] <les> A directorship with a stamp auction firm?
[19:49:39] <les> what's the connection
[19:49:56] <robin_sz> I already do all their interent/backend stuff
[19:50:22] <les> computer?
[19:50:26] <robin_sz> yip
[19:50:43] <robin_sz> from home in the UK
[19:51:05] <robin_sz> seems they like me a lot :)
[19:52:02] <les> is the stuff you are doing for them now well compensated?
[19:52:21] <robin_sz> its good, consdiering I do little
[19:53:14] <les> I like billing out $100/hr writing silly reports
[19:53:14] <les> on a farm
[19:53:14] <robin_sz> heh
[19:53:14] <robin_sz> better than farming
[19:53:26] <les> Problems with the prototype fab stuff as you know
[19:53:46] <les> but then I hired a part time machinist
[19:53:55] <les> and am getting in another cnc
[19:54:06] <les> and throwing dros on everything
[19:54:12] <robin_sz> heh
[19:54:13] <les> even woodworking tools
[19:55:36] <robin_sz> so, all those bucks you banked .. they'll be gone then ;)
[19:55:36] <robin_sz> you should have invested them ...
[19:55:36] <robin_sz> in someting ...blonde ;)
[19:55:37] <les> no the money is still there...transformed into STUFF
[19:55:37] <robin_sz> the stuff depreciated by 50% the moment you bought it.
[19:55:46] <les> yeah so
[19:55:49] <les> haha
[19:56:13] <robin_sz> same as women I guess
[19:56:23] <les> remember I owe nothing...so if I want to blow half my income on tools...I do
[19:56:35] <robin_sz> yeah
[19:56:44] <les> whether I need them or not is inconsequential
[19:57:01] <les> I have to give tools some equal billing here
[19:57:05] <robin_sz> I need to change this financial burden of a factory into soemting at least cash-neutral
[19:57:18] <les> I already blew a million or so on women I guess
[19:57:27] <robin_sz> did they depreciate badly??
[19:57:32] <les> yes
[19:57:36] <SWPadnos> maintenance is a killer
[19:57:39] <les> haha
[19:57:51] <SWPadnos> (luckily, I have a low-maintenance model)
[19:57:55] <robin_sz> if you leave them out in the sun, they go rusty
[19:58:07] <les> i'll say
[19:58:15] <SWPadnos> not an issue in England, I'd imagine ;)
[19:58:19] <robin_sz> nope
[19:58:26] <robin_sz> here, they get mildew
[19:58:45] <SWPadnos> heh - kill that off with a plunge in the North Sea
[19:58:55] <SWPadnos> (the mildew)
[19:59:08] <robin_sz> maybe I could move to geneva, rent out the house here and keep it as an asset ...
[19:59:18] <les> georgia mountains are big on mildew too
[19:59:29] <A-L-P-H-A> what are we talking about?
[19:59:35] <A-L-P-H-A> afternoon folks.
[19:59:44] <les> a job offer robin has to consider
[20:00:08] <robin_sz> well, apart from that ...
[20:00:22] <robin_sz> just finding a factory manager has to be a good plan anyway
[20:00:26] <A-L-P-H-A> if it isn't 'international jewel theif', or 'special agent with liscense to kill', then what coolness is that?
[20:00:27] <les> yeah
[20:00:37] <robin_sz> regardless of whether I go swiss or not
[20:01:01] <robin_sz> maybe I'll put the job offer on eBay ;)
[20:01:25] <les> we in the colonies don't consider employment life altering decisions
[20:01:30] <les> we move all over
[20:01:46] <A-L-P-H-A> don't the swiss have some elitist attitude towards becoming a citizen?
[20:01:55] <robin_sz> well, with wife and kids, moving to france/switzerland would be significant I guess
[20:01:58] <A-L-P-H-A> only way to be a citizen, if through birthrights?
[20:02:03] <A-L-P-H-A> if=is
[20:02:08] <robin_sz> someting like that
[20:02:26] <les> it takes 10 years minimum
[20:02:27] <robin_sz> they let you play with guns though
[20:02:31] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, do they speak french? do they like blondes? :)
[20:02:41] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A: yes and yes
[20:02:42] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, how old are the kids?
[20:02:50] <les> and I am told you are a citizen of your town...not a federal government
[20:02:51] <robin_sz> 2,3,5
[20:03:28] <robin_sz> * robin_sz adds "advert in local paper" to his list
[20:03:28] <A-L-P-H-A> 2,3,5... hmm.. maybe if theywere ~14 where they're starting to 'experiment'...
[20:03:52] <robin_sz> shrug
[20:04:30] <les> at that age they would end up having french as first language
[20:04:35] <A-L-P-H-A> to be serious now... are there GOOD school for my kids there. Will my family be happy there? Will this be stable for a long time?
[20:05:23] <A-L-P-H-A> French as first language... man... that'd suck. French is my 3rd... and it sucks, but I'm able to have some conversations.
[20:05:36] <robin_sz> shrug .. ive been with them part time for 5 years, even if I only stay a year or two, the experience would be fantastic for the kids I think.
[20:06:05] <les> well like I said it is awfully nice there
[20:06:26] <les> a bit warmer and drier...
[20:06:40] <les> depending
[20:06:42] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, well... my choices would be based on what's best for my family. And if you can weight them out, then I'd choose the better side.
[20:07:01] <A-L-P-H-A> if I were single, HELL I've move there...
[20:07:07] <robin_sz> yep
[20:07:20] <A-L-P-H-A> board with the bunnies, sleep with the honeys.
[20:07:22] <les> I usually just considered $$$
[20:07:46] <les> well not always...
[20:08:00] <les> or I would have tried for medical school haha
[20:08:47] <les> Engineers seldom make a lot
[20:08:51] <les> salesmen do
[20:09:22] <robin_sz> anyway ... regardless of what I do with moving to .ch/.fr ... I need to get this laser cutter earnig its keep, and I dont have time to sort it out myself .. so theres an nice opportunity for profit there ...
[20:10:01] <les> yeah like the cnc
[20:10:11] <les> when it runs it's the sound of money
[20:10:12] <robin_sz> yep
[20:10:18] <les> it's silent now
[20:10:24] <les> but i'm on break
[20:10:39] <les> kinda
[20:10:54] <les> I will be doing segmentqueue testing now etc
[20:10:57] <robin_sz> oh yeah, spring break
[20:11:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz googles for springbreak
[20:11:35] <les> mine is a bit quieter than the ft lauderdale kind
[20:11:56] <les> but it's sunny
[20:12:02] <les> 72F
[20:12:06] <les> no wind
[20:12:35] <les> I would be on the golf course except I am already very sore from driving range practice
[20:13:07] <les> still too early to scratch dirt for gardening
[20:13:27] <les> grass is just greening up
[20:13:44] <les> no leaves on the trees for a few more weeks
[20:15:49] <robin_sz> some shoots and small tree leaves here
[20:16:05] <les> well you are in a warmer place
[20:16:24] <SWPadnos> only 1 foot of snow left on the ground here
[20:16:30] <robin_sz> heh
[20:16:37] <robin_sz> that was .se right?
[20:16:41] <SWPadnos> but at least the driveway is mostly clear
[20:17:46] <les> soon the pollen thing will happen
[20:17:55] <les> clogging car radiators etc
[20:17:59] <robin_sz> coo
[20:18:05] <robin_sz> does it do that?
[20:18:12] <les> yeah oak does
[20:18:21] <robin_sz> wow
[20:18:40] <les> this is a temperate hardwood rain forest
[20:18:51] <robin_sz> right
[20:18:58] <robin_sz> with added hillbillies
[20:19:02] <les> right
[20:19:04] <les> heh
[20:19:38] <les> it is so damp usually that most of the yard here is moss, not grass
[20:20:11] <les> I have lots of trees.
[20:21:27] <les> there is a good bit of grass in a pasture out front away from the forest
[20:21:47] <les> tht's the picture on my web site
[20:22:00] <robin_sz> * robin_sz plays "duelling banjos" and chews on a piece of grass
[20:22:07] <les> haw
[20:22:15] <les> that was filmed right here
[20:22:21] <robin_sz> you said.
[20:22:24] <les> and it was accurate too
[20:23:02] <les> Paul and his mum went all the way to the bottom of tallulah gorge last visit
[20:23:15] <les> that was the cliffs in the film
[20:23:24] <les> 300 meter cliffs
[20:24:03] <les> Idid not go with them...was recovering from dental surgery
[20:24:20] <les> too doped up on hydrocodone
[20:25:36] <robin_sz> nice
[20:25:59] <robin_sz> * robin_sz adds "compound bow" to his wish list
[20:26:21] <les> heh
[20:26:49] <les> Last wife liked compound bows
[20:27:27] <les> had to wear this tit sqeezer thing or the bowstring wold slap it
[20:27:41] <robin_sz> heh, sounds kinky
[20:28:04] <les> have picture...
[20:28:13] <robin_sz> im sure you do ;)
[20:28:41] <les> oops forgot...she has noting on except the tit sqeezer
[20:28:57] <robin_sz> heh
[20:29:33] <robin_sz> its actually quite interesting how the bow works
[20:30:08] <robin_sz> and why the flights on the arrow dont get damaged
[20:31:30] <les> aw you can't do dcc huh
[20:31:42] <robin_sz> nope ;)
[20:31:51] <les> pity
[20:32:00] <les> you'd see the problem she had
[20:32:18] <robin_sz> just post it on alt.pictures.exgirlfriends ;)
[20:32:27] <les> haw
[20:32:56] <robin_sz> I wonder how much of the net pr0n is jilted lovers getting revenge?
[20:33:13] <les> 30%
[20:33:25] <robin_sz> sounds feasible
[20:33:53] <les> I actually found pictures of her shooting with clothes on
[20:33:58] <les> camo of course
[20:34:10] <robin_sz> but of course
[20:34:19] <les> camo underneath too
[20:34:28] <robin_sz> too much information ;)
[20:34:34] <les> heh
[20:35:28] <robin_sz> theres always email
[20:35:52] <les> ok I will show you the girl that made paul eat grits
[20:36:06] <robin_sz> grits are?
[20:36:26] <robin_sz> taosted corn?
[20:36:34] <robin_sz> bits of pig?
[20:40:42] <les> sent
[20:41:06] <les> grits are bits of corn soaked in sodium hyroxide and rinsed
[20:41:52] <les> mixed with water and cooked into a mush
[20:42:05] <robin_sz> hmmm
[20:42:14] <les> A mush that paul does not like.
[20:42:22] <robin_sz> corn in a lye sauce huh?
[20:42:44] <rayh_> Paul didn't even like southern white gravy on his chicken fried steak.
[20:43:03] <les> the lye is rinsed away but I guess it breaks down the stuff into simple sugars and amino compounds I guess
[20:43:23] <robin_sz> sounds like ... someting fairly gloopy
[20:43:37] <les> eaten with salt and pepper
[20:43:59] <robin_sz> weird
[20:44:02] <les> call it corn flavored cre4am of wheat
[20:44:08] <robin_sz> sounds like porridge
[20:44:12] <les> a bit
[20:45:05] <les> get mail?
[20:45:18] <les> tell me what you thnk of the hillbilly girls
[20:45:18] <robin_sz> not yet .. [email protected] right?
[20:45:33] <robin_sz> or list@
[20:45:40] <les> yeah let me make sure I got that right
[20:45:44] <robin_sz> heh
[20:47:35] <les> had a typo
[20:47:42] <les> called you rovin
[20:47:47] <les> sent to oblivion
[20:47:52] <les> another on the way
[20:48:48] <robin_sz> you probably mailed to [email protected] ;)
[20:49:14] <les> oh my god
[20:49:23] <les> aw this is clean
[20:49:36] <les> one of the early pictures in the set
[20:50:54] <robin_sz> loading ..
[20:51:57] <robin_sz> hmmm .. i can see why Paul didn't argue about eating the grits ...
[20:52:04] <les> haha
[20:52:16] <robin_sz> "ok, your choice .. eat the grits or I nail you to the tree"
[20:52:22] <les> genuine moonshiner's daughter
[20:52:24] <les> really
[20:52:49] <robin_sz> I can only imagine what the drinks at the wedding where ...
[20:53:15] <les> uh let's see...punch.
[20:53:38] <les> moonshiners don't drink it...thet just sell it
[20:53:50] <robin_sz> right, thats a good point
[20:54:01] <les> anyway he was retired
[20:54:04] <robin_sz> ha
[20:54:08] <robin_sz> yeah right
[20:54:15] <les> he said he looked up at the helicopter.
[20:55:24] <robin_sz> big business here is "moonshine" diesel ..
[20:55:31] <robin_sz> by red diesel, filter it
[20:55:38] <robin_sz> buy
[20:56:01] <les> anyway you can see the problem with bowstring slap
[20:56:08] <robin_sz> I sure can :)
[20:56:11] <les> what is red diesel?
[20:58:54] <robin_sz> that would hurt ... even if it catches your arm it huts
[20:58:54] <robin_sz> hurts
[20:59:33] <les> those things shoot arrows at 300fps+
[20:59:53] <robin_sz> red? ...
[20:59:56] <robin_sz> duty free,
[20:59:58] <les> yeah
[21:00:00] <robin_sz> farm diesel
[21:00:04] <les> we don't use that term
[21:00:12] <robin_sz> well .. its dyed red
[21:00:20] <robin_sz> plus soem tracers
[21:00:30] <les> oh like our k1 kerosene
[21:00:42] <les> why the tracers?
[21:00:56] <robin_sz> apparently a weak alpha source, plus others
[21:01:21] <les> but for what reason?
[21:01:42] <robin_sz> putting a sniffer in your exhaust is sufficient for them to tell, even if its not running on red diesel at the moment, they can tell if it has been
[21:01:48] <robin_sz> oh
[21:02:02] <robin_sz> if you have run a road vehicle on red, its a big fine
[21:02:08] <les> oh i get it...not clean enough for cars...
[21:02:14] <robin_sz> no, same stuff,
[21:02:20] <robin_sz> but road duty not paid
[21:02:31] <les> ohhh
[21:02:49] <les> don't see how filters would remove a dye
[21:02:53] <robin_sz> so its 12p/litre instead of 85p/litre
[21:03:05] <les> or an organically soluble metal salt
[21:03:08] <robin_sz> * robin_sz hands les 500kg of fullers earth
[21:03:12] <les> like polonium
[21:03:34] <les> hmmm
[21:03:43] <les> tracer must be particulate
[21:03:47] <robin_sz> they can filter out the tracers anyway, and the dye
[21:03:54] <robin_sz> on an industrial scale
[21:06:37] <les> arg it's getting hot in here...I still have the windows plasticed up for winter
[21:07:52] <les> I might take a walk
[21:08:05] <dave-e> get a fan
[21:08:16] <les> prob several hillbilly girls milling about out there
[21:08:18] <les> heh
[21:08:39] <les> THEY LOOK AWFUL DON"T THEY Robin
[21:08:46] <les> stuck
[21:09:01] <les> sticks every time now
[21:09:09] <les> better switch this out
[21:09:35] <les> keyboard lasted only weeks
[21:09:39] <rayh_> Hi Dave.
[21:09:50] <dave-e> hi ray
[21:11:16] <rayh_> Still making part holders.
[21:12:48] <robin_sz> * robin_sz declines to commet on hillbilly girls
[21:12:54] <dave-e> trying to get the spindle dac to go
[21:13:10] <rayh_> STG board?
[21:13:15] <dave-e> yep
[21:13:28] <robin_sz> I make it a point never to comment on anyone armed to the teeth with lethal weaponry ;)
[21:14:07] <dave-e> 2-18 apparently doesn't have the code
[21:14:30] <les> spindle control would be good
[21:14:46] <dave-e> indeed
[21:14:55] <rayh_> Might not have a working version.
[21:15:25] <dave-e> i just compiled the current cvs and send the log off to paul
[21:15:32] <les> Last I heard it was a bit problematic
[21:15:32] <dave-e> it didn't build any of the io
[21:15:46] <rayh_> You looking for +-10 on the output for axis 3
[21:15:49] <dave-e> only one way to find out ;-)
[21:16:06] <dave-e> rayh yes
[21:16:54] <dave-e> in the end it gets fancier since I really need to know if gear-shift is low or high
[21:17:19] <dave-e> ideally set shift from Snnnn
[21:18:40] <rayh_> Why is your encoder past the gear shift?
[21:18:50] <rayh_> Motor side?
[21:19:14] <dave-e> what encoder
[21:19:41] <rayh_> Then emc doesn't need to know anything.
[21:20:41] <dave-e> the system expects low range to 1100 rpm then high range from 1100-4000
[21:20:53] <dave-e> at least for max torque
[21:20:56] <rayh_> robin_sz: Could you help me with ssh between a couple of computers. I can ping.
[21:21:12] <rayh_> EMC doesn't
[21:21:50] <rayh_> Unless you want it to shift gears right now.
[21:22:10] <rayh_> The analog voltage should appear regardless.
[21:22:20] <dave-e> yes that is true
[21:22:28] <dave-e> and it doesn't happen
[21:22:57] <rayh_> dave-e: That's where I'd start. Just issue a spindle speed and direction.
[21:23:08] <rayh_> measure the analog pin.
[21:23:17] <dave-e> did that
[21:23:29] <rayh_> and nothing?
[21:23:42] <dave-e> didn't twitch
[21:23:55] <dave-e> stayed at 0.006 v
[21:23:59] <rayh_> What stg pins you looking at.
[21:24:41] <dave-e> the output of the dacs on the breakout board...for channel 3...0 based ...x y and z declared as axes
[21:25:04] <rayh_> That ought to be it.
[21:25:30] <dave-e> yeh....0-3 are on the first cable
[21:26:03] <dave-e> no one seems at all certain that the working code was included in 2-18
[21:26:21] <rayh_> Does the stg doc list the address of each dac?
[21:26:44] <dave-e> on output pins?
[21:27:11] <rayh_> If so, you could use DIO_Exercise to send bytes to that address and see if it responds.
[21:27:35] <dave-e> I was going to try stgdiag but have not gotten there yet
[21:27:36] <rayh_> You'd have to shut down emc and run install_realtime_base.
[21:27:51] <paul_c> even better... With stgmod loaded, use usermot to send a value to the dac
[21:28:12] <rayh_> ??
[21:28:16] <dave-e> hmmmm...never done that
[21:28:27] <rayh_> * rayh_ goes into learning mode
[21:28:35] <paul_c> (might be usrmot)....
[21:28:43] <dave-e> followed by dave
[21:29:07] <paul_c> there is a diag utility that allows you to connect to a running *mod
[21:29:29] <paul_c> you can use it to check various bits and pins
[21:29:37] <gezr> howdy yall.
[21:30:15] <rayh_> nonrealtime/bin
[21:30:23] <paul_c> yup
[21:31:04] <rayh_> There is an stgmot.
[21:32:28] <paul_c> usrmot in the EMC-1 tree.
[21:42:33] <rayh_> Okay. got it running here. The prompt is motion>
[21:43:13] <paul_c> dac 3 5.25
[21:43:43] <paul_c> should output 5.25V on the fourth DAC
[21:44:55] <paul_c> help or ? will bring up the command list
[21:45:07] <dave-e> guess I'll have to run off and try it
[21:45:22] <rayh_> That was easy here. Don't have an stg though.
[21:45:26] <dave-e> is this a module or a program
[21:45:31] <rayh_> Got a motenc.
[21:45:36] <rayh_> Will try after a bit.
[21:45:49] <paul_c> should work regardless of the card.
[21:46:12] <rayh_> Yea. Don't have it stuffed into the box.
[21:46:12] <paul_c> it is a usr space app that talks to the RT module.
[21:46:25] <dave-e> brb
[21:46:53] <rayh_> * rayh_ 's gotta run help max for a bit.
[21:47:46] <les> took a walk
[21:47:50] <les> pretty nice
[21:48:00] <les> spring finally
[21:48:29] <gezr> hahaha
[21:48:38] <les> not yet up there?
[21:48:59] <gezr> its 75 I think outside, so I guess so, the weeds have sprung into action
[21:49:16] <les> 71 here
[21:49:22] <gezr> ill be grilling steak, thats probably the last time ill ever go into that butcher shop though
[21:49:24] <les> yeah weeds started
[21:49:28] <les> no tree leaves
[21:49:42] <les> bad price?
[21:49:53] <gezr> either he got cleaned out, or doesnt have the capitol to support an inventory
[21:50:05] <les> hmm
[21:50:17] <les> I grill everything on cherry scraps
[21:50:21] <gezr> I got one sirloin steak, about 2lbs worth, ill slice it in half for the wife and I, 6.75a lb
[21:50:23] <les> and will be for years
[21:50:26] <Jymmm> gezr: You sure that's BEEF you bought?
[21:50:34] <gezr> Jymmm : oh yeah
[21:50:38] <Jymmm> gezr: Hows the cat/dog population in the area?
[21:50:56] <gezr> it wasnt brown on the bottom which was a good sign, the store didnt have a healthy feeling to it, the store felt sick
[21:51:07] <paul_c> not sure we want to know what they eat out west...
[21:51:20] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, ever find that Titanium guy?
[21:51:23] <Jymmm> paul_c road kill of course
[21:51:26] <gezr> Jymmm : too large a piece of meat for either of those
[21:51:48] <gezr> have any of you guys been into a store, of any kind and had a feeling that the place was sick?
[21:52:08] <Jymmm> every day
[21:52:10] <les> sick...well not clean perhaps
[21:52:19] <Jymmm> every day
[21:52:31] <gezr> maybe sick is a strange word, going out of business at any day sort of feeling
[21:52:41] <gezr> they didnt even seemed excited to have a customer
[21:52:47] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, oh. hell yeah.
[21:53:11] <Jymmm> whats worse is when a business looses it's lease after 10+ years.
[21:53:22] <A-L-P-H-A> ouch. that sucks.
[21:53:41] <les> just had to cahse out a cat
[21:53:42] <A-L-P-H-A> see, even then, it's not too bad... as long as there are other locations nearby
[21:53:47] <les> opened the screen door
[21:53:50] <les> not my cat
[21:54:06] <A-L-P-H-A> les is chassing pussy again.... wonder what your wife would say?
[21:54:22] <les> pregnant too kittens any hour I would say
[21:54:23] <les> haha
[21:54:25] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A eh, it can be... you customers know where you were, not where you are now.
[21:54:53] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A he'd have to have a wife 1st
[21:54:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, leave a note. It would have been an "OH Hey, you're out next week" deal. it'd be MONTHs in the works.
[21:55:09] <A-L-P-H-A> wouldn't have been
[21:55:12] <les> my two exes wouldn't mind
[21:55:28] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A you would be surprised. I've seen some go in 30 days
[21:55:56] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, well... stupid business owners... for not renewing months in advance.
[21:56:03] <A-L-P-H-A> or couple of months at least.
[21:56:14] <A-L-P-H-A> mailing lists are a good idea for clients as well.
[21:56:19] <A-L-P-H-A> mailing and email lists.
[21:56:20] <gezr> I though les was married hmm
[21:56:28] <les> I was twice
[21:56:33] <les> heh
[21:56:40] <gezr> I meant recently
[21:56:41] <A-L-P-H-A> gezr, quick! make a spread sheet, and keep tabs on everyone. :)
[21:56:41] <les> tha't enough!!
[21:57:02] <gezr> A-L-P-H-A : they know I dont know how to do that sort of stuff
[21:57:14] <Jymmm> gezr les marries those 19yo that their dad is also their brother!
[21:57:15] <les> put 2 on the cell by my name
[21:57:16] <A-L-P-H-A> les... go find yourself a nice impressionable 18 yr old...
[21:57:41] <les> jymmm not true she was 28
[21:57:49] <Jymmm> les ah my bad =)
[21:57:53] <gezr> I dont have any numbers, but I do have a cell phone
[21:57:54] <les> heh
[21:58:14] <Jymmm> Man I put XP/Nero to it's knees today
[21:59:07] <gezr> I was thinking about building the shop I work for a single axis slide table for the welder, with a lazzy susan on top, the boss perked me up earlier in the day, the idea was rejected in terms of the shop spending any money
[21:59:09] <Jymmm> * Jymmm notes: When you are burning over a million files to a DVD, it's not locked up. Just takes a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time to process.
[22:00:19] <dave-e> usrmot complained that it couldn't find emcmot in ini file
[22:00:42] <dave-e> so i just tried newstgdiag and the dac is OK...responded nicely
[22:01:22] <dave-e> now back to trying to get a good compile
[22:01:27] <dave-e> bbl
[22:01:30] <les> k
[22:01:55] <gezr> les : speaking of chery and your machine, your not going to have any available machine time in the comming weeks are you?
[22:02:11] <gezr> s/weeks/months
[22:02:40] <paul_c> quick - Hide
[22:02:48] <alex_joni> too late ;)
[22:03:03] <alex_joni> evening
[22:03:11] <les> gezr: yes I will
[22:03:22] <les> will be doing some emc teesting
[22:03:29] <les> testing
[22:06:42] <alex_joni> what's up?
[22:07:06] <alex_joni> hey robin
[22:07:16] <alex_joni> s/robin/robins/
[22:08:01] <LawrenceG> ok guys... I am drawing a blank here... what is m code used to pause machine (like for tool change)?
[22:08:11] <alex_joni> M05?
[22:08:13] <alex_joni> 6
[22:08:25] <Jymmm> LawrenceG : "WAIT_DAMNIT"
[22:08:29] <paul_c> m04 p10
[22:08:29] <gezr> m2
[22:08:49] <gezr> or m00
[22:08:55] <Jymmm> I like mine better
[22:09:35] <LawrenceG> ok..... when one hits an m00, is the resume button the right way to continue?
[22:09:41] <paul_c> (MSG Load Tool No. 6.5 please)
[22:09:57] <gezr> m00 is the traditional machine pause code, different manufactures program it to have certian things stop, such as a m00 will send a m5(spindle stop) and m9(coolant off) as well
[22:10:08] <Jymmm> alex_joni and gezr are pulling things out of their.... toolbox (yeah that's it, toolbox) like 'The Count' on Seasame Street! =)
[22:10:32] <gezr> m02 I was wrong about I think thats program end of some sort
[22:10:48] <alex_joni> paul_c: hope that's pseudo NML code
[22:11:05] <paul_c> LawrenceG: The MSG construct will pop a message box up on the screen and pause until the return key is pressed.
[22:11:29] <paul_c> See programs/isd.ngc for an example.
[22:12:06] <LawrenceG> cool that is just what we need.... if I mount a new tool, what can I leave auto mode to re zero and then get back in?
[22:13:04] <paul_c> You'd need to use "Run from line #"
[22:13:23] <alex_joni> paul_c: you were right about the break/brake stuff
[22:13:32] <paul_c> ;)
[22:13:44] <alex_joni> I'll fix it soon (waiting for the .de guys to finish the translation)
[22:14:05] <alex_joni> they started a wiki-page for that ;)
[22:15:05] <LawrenceG> I'll play for a bit.... just putting together a program to engrave the side of a toy box for my dog!!!
[22:15:48] <gezr> whoot wife home, ill be back in a bit :)
[22:16:14] <LawrenceG> it needs 1/2" endmill for routing a pocket, then a V cutter for engraving his name and then a 2mm bit for another line of text.
[22:23:09] <les> M06Txx then M00 is what I use
[22:23:13] <les> then resume
[22:23:40] <les> it will load offsets from the .var file if needed too
[22:24:29] <les> hope to not do that much more...auto tool change was talked about a lot today
[22:25:09] <LawrenceG> thanks les... I have not made many chips lately... time to warm up the mill
[22:25:31] <les> ok I used this 20-40 times a day...so it works.
[22:26:18] <Jymmm> LawrenceG warm up?
[22:26:35] <les> oh and a note: if you accidently hit run instead of resume
[22:26:39] <les> no problem
[22:26:53] <les> popup will just say you can't do that
[22:27:13] <les> it won't start from the beginning
[22:27:17] <les> which is good
[22:27:57] <LawrenceG> yes... very good considering I will probably be rezeroing the tools manually
[22:28:31] <les> I go from slot drill to v tool allthe time
[22:28:44] <les> just put offsets in the.var file
[22:28:51] <robin_z> * robin_z returns
[22:28:54] <les> or get one of my holders haha
[22:29:15] <alex_joni_> did you guys get to see my question?
[22:29:24] <robin_z> about the rubber underwaer?
[22:29:25] <LawrenceG> I dont really have a way to remount tools in a known position.... not enough holders!
[22:30:16] <alex_joni_> what's lube used for?
[22:30:21] <alex_joni_> cooling or lubrication?
[22:30:21] <alex_joni_> the name suggests the later...
[22:30:30] <robin_z> lube?
[22:30:37] <robin_z> on rubber underwear?
[22:30:39] <les> uh
[22:30:44] <alex_joni_> lube on tkemc
[22:30:47] <robin_z> no .. use talc.
[22:30:50] <les> it make things slick and stuff
[22:30:50] <robin_z> oh tight.
[22:30:57] <robin_z> right
[22:30:58] <robin_z> hah
[22:31:15] <les> lube toggles a parport pin
[22:31:37] <alex_joni_> the german guys asked if it's cooling lube or lubrication lube :D
[22:31:42] <alex_joni_> alex_joni_ is now known as alex_joni
[22:31:50] <les> there is both
[22:32:06] <les> lube sense is to detect lubrication lube
[22:32:24] <les> coolant is for cooling lube
[22:32:25] <alex_joni> les: depends on what you do with the pin?
[22:32:44] <les> yeah at least in servo
[22:33:31] <les> lube sense is an emc input
[22:33:51] <les> can make an estop if no oil
[22:34:09] <alex_joni> so usually lube is for lubrication
[22:34:10] <les> also can be used for air bearing spindles etc
[22:34:18] <les> to check for air pressure
[22:34:21] <alex_joni> and flood is for cooling lube?
[22:34:25] <les> or whatever you want
[22:34:28] <robin_z> alex_joni: bridgeports have a way lube pump
[22:34:28] <robin_z> for the z axis quill, gibs etc
[22:34:28] <robin_z> emc is really ebc. enhanced bridgeport controller.
[22:34:28] <alex_joni> right
[22:34:40] <alex_joni> right ;)
[22:34:48] <alex_joni> btw. got to wear my kilt today
[22:35:00] <robin_z> theres flood and mist
[22:35:16] <Jymmm> wow found good pricing on UHWM... 1" @ $14/sf
[22:35:42] <les> I use the stuff a bunch on woodworking fixtures
[22:35:52] <Jymmm> les for slides?
[22:36:15] <les> last use was for clamp cauls...so glue does not stick
[22:36:25] <les> also tablesaw fence etc
[22:36:36] <Jymmm> ah, didn't think of that
[22:36:49] <Jymmm> good stuff!
[22:36:54] <les> the cnc machine way cover guides are UHMW also
[22:37:18] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm looking into UHWM tubing to slides
[22:37:43] <Jymmm> I just want to see for myself how good/bad it is
[22:37:55] <les> it's handy stuff
[22:38:27] <les> I think I have 40 or 50 feet of the stuff in stock....1/8x2
[22:38:33] <robin_z> Jymmm: what wrong with the IGUS stuff?
[22:38:43] <Jymmm> robin_zL never heard of it
[22:38:53] <robin_z> you're kidding?
[22:39:00] <robin_z> I told you about it last week
[22:39:37] <alex_joni> IGUS is pretty good
[22:39:52] <robin_z> cheap tpp
[22:39:55] <robin_z> too
[22:40:01] <les> I use the igus energychain stuff
[22:40:06] <les> lots
[22:40:47] <robin_z> http://igus.bdol.com/drylinn.asp
[22:41:01] <robin_z> Jymmm: checkout the "drylin W" stuff
[22:41:19] <Jymmm> robin_z looking now... igus.com
[22:41:42] <Jymmm> whats the cost on it typcially?
[22:46:23] <alex_joni> [00:51] <Jymmm> whats the cost on it typcially?
[22:46:35] <alex_joni> * alex_joni thinks robin missed that
[22:59:17] <dave-e> HOT DAMN! cvs compiled under bdi-2-18....
[22:59:31] <dave-e> AND spindle control works!
[22:59:37] <paul_c> shame on you for not trusting me...
[23:00:02] <dave-e> well I've not had the best of luck with compiles...to say the least
[23:02:00] <alex_joni> dave-e: great ;)
[23:02:43] <dave-e> yes it is
[23:03:42] <alex_joni> I presume that's emc1 you are using
[23:04:25] <robin_z> yeah, connection is up anad down liek a whores drawers
[23:04:43] <dave-e> yes with stg I card
[23:04:47] <robin_z> cost on igus stuff?
[23:05:18] <CIA-4> 03paul_c 07BDI build system * 10Babylon Cluster/qtdro.cc: File changed. New revision:1.19
[23:05:23] <robin_z> cheap. cariages from �10, rails ... �50 metre, maybe less
[23:08:43] <robin_z> hmm is this thing on or has it bounced me .. again?
[23:09:09] <alex_joni> nah.. still on
[23:09:14] <robin_z> k
[23:09:29] <alex_joni> it's fun to wear a kilt ;)
[23:09:45] <robin_z> here, you'll do. move from .ro to .uk and run my laser for me.
[23:10:02] <robin_z> its not a kilt. its a skirt
[23:10:02] <alex_joni> sure robin
[23:10:42] <alex_joni> next month
[23:10:42] <alex_joni> ok?
[23:10:55] <robin_z> suits me.
[23:11:10] <robin_z> payment by results of course :)
[23:13:54] <robin_z> let me give you some directions to get here
[23:13:54] <robin_z> from your place, head west
[23:13:54] <robin_z> keep going until you find water ...
[23:14:08] <anonimasu> hm..
[23:14:20] <anonimasu> :)
[23:14:35] <alex_joni> big water?
[23:14:42] <robin_z> yep ...
[23:14:54] <robin_z> over that ...
[23:15:08] <alex_joni> or some small creek?
[23:15:08] <alex_joni> :D
[23:15:08] <alex_joni> like the danube?
[23:15:21] <robin_z> oh, turn north a bit too
[23:20:02] <Jymmm> robin_z: Just called IGUS... the 'W' rails are $56/meter
[23:20:08] <robin_z> cheap
[23:20:33] <Jymmm> robin_z check out their 'N' stuff
[23:20:42] <robin_z> seen it .. got samples
[23:21:08] <Jymmm> much cheaper
[23:21:38] <Jymmm> surprisingly the bearings are really cheap
[23:21:42] <Jymmm> $5/ea
[23:35:56] <robin_z> * robin_z drinks nice wine
[23:36:04] <pfred1> what color?
[23:36:20] <robin_z> white
[23:36:23] <robin_z> and sweet
[23:36:31] <pfred1> I like dry white german wines
[23:36:40] <robin_z> Mosel?
[23:36:48] <pfred1> bout the only wines that don't give me a devastating hangover
[23:37:11] <pfred1> must be the sulphates in it i donno
[23:37:42] <robin_z> I used to be able to name most Mosel wines from taste
[23:37:43] <pfred1> robin_z hey are you into like archaic machining books?
[23:38:10] <pfred1> and more importantly do you have a broadband connection?
[23:38:27] <robin_z> hmmm ... not as such .. dont have any, but I do find them fascinating when Ive seen them
[23:38:35] <robin_z> I do ...
[23:38:41] <pfred1> I found some on the net really really cool ones
[23:38:47] <robin_z> URI?
[23:38:54] <pfred1> http://digital.lib.msu.edu/collections/index.cfm?CollectionID=10
[23:39:13] <Imperator_away> Imperator_away is now known as Imperator_
[23:39:13] <pfred1> so far I've grabbed # Modern Machine Shop Practice Vol. 1 By Rose, Joshua and The Advanced Machinist,
[23:39:25] <pfred1> man some of the best in this genre I have ever seen!
[23:39:38] <pfred1> I scour the Earth looking for this sort of thing!
[23:39:46] <pfred1> and here it is free for the downloading!
[23:39:52] <robin_z> yep
[23:39:56] <robin_z> looking ...
[23:52:17] <pfred1> alex_joni wb
[23:52:37] <les> I have an old machining book
[23:52:41] <les> a reprint
[23:52:48] <les> english
[23:52:58] <pfred1> les you check out the ones in this library?
[23:53:06] <les> Moxon's doctrine of handtworks
[23:53:16] <les> handyworks
[23:53:21] <les> 1620?
[23:53:35] <pfred1> as a purveyor of dusty old tomes i highly recommend them!
[23:53:41] <les> ill loook at your link
[23:55:25] <les> oh that link is a keeper
[23:55:28] <les> very good
[23:55:46] <pfred1> :)
[23:55:48] <alex_joni> what link?
[23:55:52] <alex_joni> I missed that one
[23:56:06] <pfred1> heck I'm downloading saving them locally never know in event of nuclear war or somehting
[23:56:36] <pfred1> man volume 2 promises to be even better than volume 1 was
[23:57:44] <pfred1> heck I want to take screenshots of some of these engravings use them as a desktop they're beautiful