#emc | Logs for 2005-04-19

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[00:17:55] <Jymmm> Phydbleep : D) All the above
[00:35:21] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. wife's being seen'n a sailor, that likes to do dirty deeds in diapers. So Phydbleep, know where you're wife's been lately while you're gone?
[00:38:01] <Phydbleep> Hanging out and comparing notes with my mistress?
[00:38:20] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is happily married. :)
[00:38:48] <pfred1> happily married seems to be just another oxymoron in my experiences with it
[00:41:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, is the wife happily married. ;)
[00:41:53] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Not in this case..
[00:42:08] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Yeah, to me even! :)
[00:42:22] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, :) okie.
[00:42:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I won't plant seeds of doubt.
[00:42:39] <Phydbleep> Surprised the hell out of me too. :)
[00:50:01] <A-L-P-H-A> Time: 22:04:49 -0500 GMT, Windows XP Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.1 - 2600), AMD XP 2800+ running at (1-AMD , 2123MHz, 512KB (100% Load)), DDR400 RAM Usage: 581/1024MB (56.74%), C: 47.56gb of 75.42gb free, D: 0gb of 0gb free, N: 47.59gb of 372.62gb free, Current Uptime: 11hrs 49mins 21secs, Record Uptime: 3wks 12hrs 48mins 50secs, 3 Samsung 19" flat monitors (1 Trinitron, 2 CRT).
[00:51:03] <Phydbleep> 20:13:45 up 37 days, 3:22, 5 users, load average: 0.08, 0.02, 0.01
[00:51:15] <A-L-P-H-A> :/
[00:51:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, wanna increase some cpu cycles?
[00:51:28] <A-L-P-H-A> i.e. a torrent tracker? :D
[00:51:56] <pfred1> * pfred1 is burning up some CPU cycles
[00:52:15] <pfred1> reripping AI
[00:52:24] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, viewing porn doesn't count. ;)
[00:52:33] <pfred1> I'm making it
[00:52:53] <A-L-P-H-A> whatever comment I make next, would just wanna make me puke. so I'll just not make one.
[00:53:02] <pfred1> I worked with a porn star once
[00:53:57] <pfred1> well at his day job
[00:54:13] <pfred1> Bobbie the Mop
[00:56:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I grew up with a girl that now models for playboy.
[00:56:12] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[00:56:37] <pfred1> Hugh seems fairly harmless to me today
[00:57:03] <pfred1> sorta sad in fact
[00:57:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not impressed by fakeness.
[00:57:20] <pfred1> all them women and what can he do about it today?
[00:58:29] <pfred1> woo coming up on 70% of my first pass here
[00:59:25] <pfred1> * pfred1 already starts thinking about what he wants to rip next ...
[01:06:34] <A-L-P-H-A> the 4 DVD versions of each of the three LOTR movies.
[01:11:52] <pfred1> I got all the LOTR rips good ones too
[01:12:12] <pfred1> got them all before the DVDs were even out :)
[01:12:30] <A-L-P-H-A> then you don't have the 20 minutes of extra footage.
[01:12:40] <pfred1> nope
[01:12:50] <pfred1> some were long and boring enough without it :)
[01:12:59] <pfred1> man the second one sucked!
[01:13:08] <pfred1> oh wait no it was the first one
[02:35:06] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the correct word that means osmosis, except for everything else? As osmosis is for water.
[02:37:56] <cradek> diffusion
[02:42:25] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: What was that url for the pcboard instructions?
[02:42:55] <Phydbleep> cradek!
[02:43:05] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has been looking for you. :)
[02:43:34] <Phydbleep> cradek: What would you want to mill some pcboards?
[02:45:39] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: nm, I found it.
[02:45:55] <cradek> Phydbleep: why?
[02:46:58] <cradek> Phydbleep: unless you want to use it as part of learning how, a board house will be cheaper and give you plated holes.
[02:47:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is allergic to 99.9% of the chemicals used for pcb's and is on a red-ink budjet.
[02:48:36] <cradek> Phydbleep: no way am I going to try to go into the business of undercutting the third-world board houses...
[02:48:50] <Phydbleep> cradek: I adapted a design for an encoder set for cnc and I want to see how well it works.
[02:49:22] <cradek> do you have Eagle files?
[02:49:26] <Phydbleep> 4096 ppr with a rotation count for absolute positioning.
[02:50:18] <Phydbleep> I have eage files I'm working on for the smd stuff, but I want to prototype it out with dip/dil.
[02:50:43] <cradek> if the circuitry is simple, just use perfboard for a prototype
[02:51:08] <Phydbleep> Needs to fit in a housing.
[02:51:15] <cradek> ah
[02:51:44] <Phydbleep> I don't need though plate or even tinning, just milling.
[02:52:15] <cradek> I'll have a look if you send me the eagle files...
[02:52:27] <cradek> [email protected]
[02:52:34] <cradek> have to run, good night
[02:53:13] <Phydbleep> It's an 8 pin dip on a 2" square with a 1-/18 hole centered in it. :)
[02:54:42] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep. glad you found it.
[02:54:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I have now left outlook, for thunderbird.
[02:55:13] <A-L-P-H-A> so far... I'm not liking thunderbird tooo much... though it is faster.
[02:55:32] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep never used outhouse excess...
[02:56:08] <A-L-P-H-A> outhouses are great...
[02:56:08] <A-L-P-H-A> especially it's a new pit, so it doesn't stink...
[02:56:08] <A-L-P-H-A> and a little gust of wind... very refreshing.
[02:56:26] <A-L-P-H-A> though the boys like to climb back inside cause of the cold.
[02:56:53] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... By the time there was a Windows e-mail client I had already learned linux and was using pine.
[02:57:05] <A-L-P-H-A> pine was my first email as well.
[02:57:23] <A-L-P-H-A> cause I couldn't get my OS2 email to work properly.
[02:57:39] <A-L-P-H-A> man... this was back in what?
[02:57:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 1993?
[02:57:53] <A-L-P-H-A> my grade 10 year... in october.
[02:57:57] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm..
[02:58:01] <A-L-P-H-A> that would have been.
[02:58:43] <A-L-P-H-A> man... I can't remember now.
[02:59:01] <A-L-P-H-A> so long ago.
[03:00:43] <Phydbleep> I think the earliest version of linux i have is 0.96b.. I still have the Sunsite and TSX-11 cd sets from 95? 96?
[03:00:58] <A-L-P-H-A> dunno.
[03:01:08] <A-L-P-H-A> I avoided windows like mad...
[03:01:15] <A-L-P-H-A> i think I stuck with OS/2 till windows 98?
[03:01:23] <Phydbleep> RedHat was @ 3.2..
[03:01:28] <A-L-P-H-A> so win3.1 to Os/2 2.0, 2.1. then I went to 98
[03:02:32] <Phydbleep> I got annoyed with 3.1 due to the fact that it wouldn't run an alarm clock and a screensaver without crashing..
[03:03:12] <Phydbleep> Went to XFree86-3.6 I think it was..
[03:05:38] <Phydbleep> OS/2 looked really good, but I could see where MS and IBM were going to get into a pissing match..
[03:08:54] <Jymmm> MY neighbor gave me a army MRE, tried it, I think bile would taste better!
[03:15:39] <Phydbleep> MRE's? OHMAWGOD... ROFL... How many Lies can they print on one package?
[03:16:31] <Jymmm> the chicken wasn't too bad, but the rice... How do you FUCK UP rice to that degree!
[03:17:13] <Phydbleep> The empty boxes are good for moving or storage but I'd use the contents for building materials.. That stuff doesn't have a shelf life, it has a half life.. :P
[03:19:22] <Phydbleep> MRE Tip #15: For best results 1. eat box 2. throw contents at enemy.
[03:20:07] <Jymmm> lol... he was telling me that they get so hungry, that the napkins are etiable and some ripe em up and mix in with the food
[03:21:02] <Phydbleep> If you're lucky you can tell the crackers from the toilet paper.
[03:21:24] <Jymmm> actually the vegetables crackers tasted fine
[03:21:48] <Phydbleep> They both taste fine... They just look alike. :)
[03:22:14] <Phydbleep> Feel the same in the dark too..
[03:47:09] <pfred1> Phydbleep ever seen Pirates of Silicon Valley?
[03:48:22] <Jymmm> pfred1 : I have... they drive on the 880 FWY
[03:49:02] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Nope, never saw it.
[03:49:29] <pfred1> Phydbleep goes a long way towards explaining the relationship between Microsoft and IBM I think
[03:49:51] <pfred1> or complete lack of it
[03:49:57] <Phydbleep> I saw "Ice Pirates" and "The Crimson Permanent Assurance" though.
[03:50:35] <pfred1> I liked Pirates of Silicon Valley I always knew they were all scumbags just not to what degree
[03:51:51] <Phydbleep> If I knew then what i know now, I'd have kicked that s.o.b. in the balls so hard he'd have washed up a week later in Maui..
[03:52:10] <pfred1> Phydbleep who?
[03:52:31] <Phydbleep> Bill G.
[03:52:44] <pfred1> Phydbleep to his credit he did make Linux possible
[03:53:05] <pfred1> we basically rose out of the slime he created
[03:53:10] <Phydbleep> I met him back in '86 when i answered an ad they had in the Portland paper looking for a coder.
[03:53:38] <pfred1> if it wasn't for him making PCs a commodity item today would be a lot different
[03:54:11] <Phydbleep> I didn't like the way he treated his employees and told him he didn't have enough money to buy my time.
[03:54:13] <pfred1> that'll be his real enduring legacy
[03:54:27] <Phydbleep> He still doesn't.
[03:54:41] <pfred1> he was a jerk surrounded by real scumbags it seemed to me
[03:54:57] <pfred1> steve ballimer is the real lowlife in the equation i think
[03:55:20] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Some other computer would have filled the void.. I went from a C-64 to PC.
[03:56:13] <pfred1> oh sure if not him someone else
[03:56:27] <pfred1> and they'd have been just as bad I'm sure thems that cans does
[03:56:58] <Phydbleep> I objected to the "compartmentalised coding" A, B & C are all working on the same thing, but are not allowed to discuss it or compare notes on api creation.. What a bugfest waiting to happen.
[03:57:42] <pfred1> it's the same way criminals cook speed
[03:58:03] <pfred1> they have a bunch of different groups each one only knows how to do and performs one step in the whole process
[03:58:12] <pfred1> that way no one cna go off and make a competing product
[03:58:49] <pfred1> microsoft parallels a lot of orginized criminal orginizations it seems
[03:59:19] <Phydbleep> You think? <snicker>
[03:59:22] <pfred1> or criminal operations
[03:59:37] <pfred1> yeah they're the code mafia for sure
[04:00:06] <Phydbleep> They're just following a govt approved business model.
[04:00:42] <pfred1> the bigger they come the harder they fall it's just a matter of time
[04:01:24] <Jymmm> I got a question... If I used rollerblade bearings, would using an aluminum rail REALLY be that bad?
[04:01:57] <pfred1> Jymmm no but aluminum isn't really very ridig compared to say steel
[04:02:05] <Phydbleep> pfred1: That's why I'm setting up PMDC drives on all my heavy gear...
[04:02:05] <pfred1> rigid even
[04:02:19] <Jymmm> I'm thinking C channel w/ .250" wall
[04:02:45] <pfred1> yeah i like C channel stock
[04:02:56] <Jymmm> My only thought would be wear
[04:02:57] <pfred1> metal 2x4s :)
[04:03:01] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Use steel for < 2" stuff.
[04:03:24] <Jymmm> Phydbleep the only problem with steel is the surface - kinda rough
[04:03:26] <pfred1> heck use steel because it's just easier to work with
[04:03:44] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: It's a grind...
[04:03:46] <pfred1> I frigging hate welding aluminum
[04:03:58] <Jymmm> Phydbleep grind with what?
[04:04:12] <pfred1> Jymmm abrasive materials usually
[04:04:22] <pfred1> and yes steel grinds way better than aluminum does too!
[04:04:25] <Jymmm> what... by hand?!?!?!
[04:04:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep will go postal if he ever sees another thrashed impeller from a jet drive..
[04:04:52] <Jymmm> or do you mean ground steel
[04:04:54] <Jymmm> ?
[04:04:58] <pfred1> traditionally scraping is done by hand
[04:05:06] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: Set up a jig and use a wheel or disk.
[04:05:28] <pfred1> Jymmm have you done any research on bedway scraping?
[04:05:43] <pfred1> like how the basic process is performed?
[04:05:51] <Jymmm> eh I don't have the tools to work with that much steel... plus the sheer weight factor
[04:05:52] <Phydbleep> Then do your final scraping.. You'll end up with a nice smooth surface..
[04:06:11] <pfred1> on top of it structural steel is like .003 to begin with
[04:06:17] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: How big are you talking?
[04:06:18] <pfred1> so ...
[04:06:37] <Jymmm> Phydbleep undecided, but about 24" x 36"
[04:07:15] <pfred1> Jymmm by rough do you mean like the surface texture?
[04:07:21] <Jymmm> pfred1 yes
[04:07:27] <pfred1> get cold rolled
[04:07:38] <pfred1> you must be seeing all hot rolled
[04:07:42] <Jymmm> cold rolled steel C channel ?
[04:07:49] <pfred1> I'm sure someone makes it
[04:07:51] <Phydbleep> Go get 4 pieces of 3/4" drill stock (Polished rod) ?
[04:07:59] <pfred1> probably be a good penny but
[04:08:07] <pfred1> yeah drill rod is good stuff
[04:08:17] <pfred1> people make standoffs for it
[04:08:37] <pfred1> you still need to make sure your frame is sound though
[04:09:04] <Jymmm> well, to use drillrod I need linear bearings of some sort
[04:09:18] <pfred1> nah you can make a 3 track trolley
[04:09:21] <Phydbleep> 3 bearings in a Y around it.
[04:09:25] <pfred1> yup
[04:09:45] <pfred1> you just need to stand the rod off a bit in order to do it
[04:10:00] <Jymmm> have you every made a bearing block for this?
[04:10:06] <Phydbleep> Very stable/rigid if properly done.
[04:10:14] <pfred1> I seen a website where a guy made nice stuff
[04:10:27] <pfred1> see if I can dig it up again
[04:10:27] <Jymmm> so have I, he casted it himself
[04:10:35] <pfred1> oh you saw his page?
[04:10:37] <Phydbleep> pfred1: The lost-foam cast ones?
[04:10:44] <Jymmm> the casted ones, yeah.
[04:10:45] <pfred1> might have been
[04:10:54] <Jymmm> if oyu have another link, I'll take it
[04:10:57] <pfred1> it seems to have worked out well for him
[04:11:05] <pfred1> nah that was the guy
[04:11:17] <pfred1> he made it out of something else first then ended up casting more of them
[04:11:25] <Phydbleep> it's linked from backyardmetalworking.
[04:11:30] <Jymmm> Well, I have an idea for that, but makeing the blocks is a bit cumbersome
[04:12:04] <pfred1> really melting aluminum is fairly trivial
[04:12:10] <pfred1> you can do it with a barbeque
[04:12:30] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep got everthing for a big furnace for <$20.
[04:12:57] <Phydbleep> Kaocast, Perlite and an old air tank. :)
[04:13:03] <pfred1> heck we were camped at a motorcycle race and ended up melting aluminum in our campfire
[04:13:06] <pfred1> I got the chunk here
[04:13:52] <pfred1> some drunk threw some lawnchairs into our campfire at one point next day I was stirring the coals and found it
[04:14:19] <pfred1> man them races were fun :)
[04:15:08] <Phydbleep> Now i've got to rig a drinding bed to cut the tank or listen to a jigsaw for an hour. :[
[04:15:15] <pfred1> then one guy I know named Larry was sure that there must have been air voids in it so Idrilled a hole in it it's solid
[04:15:21] <Phydbleep> grinding
[04:15:54] <pfred1> cut what tank?
[04:16:37] <pfred1> air tank?
[04:16:45] <Phydbleep> Big 40-50 gallon air tank.
[04:16:55] <pfred1> ASME rated?
[04:17:29] <Phydbleep> It's from a big upright compressor and I was going to cut the bells of it.
[04:17:34] <Phydbleep> off
[04:17:50] <pfred1> I was on a job we were laying this steam pipe it was 24" diameter outer jacket about 3/8 thick we'd cut it with one of them demolition chop saws
[04:18:04] <pfred1> it took a while but we'd manage to get through the stuff
[04:18:39] <pfred1> you know one of them gas operated 14" abrasive cut off saws?
[04:18:49] <Phydbleep> Got 1, but I'm lazy and don't want to have to try to control a 50kilo grinder on a precision cut.
[04:19:11] <pfred1> oh yeah can't be lazy
[04:19:25] <pfred1> this stuff was steamfitting so well it had to be perfect
[04:19:31] <pfred1> X-Rayed etc
[04:19:39] <Phydbleep> I'd rather use 2 rollers that spin with the tank on top and a gravity fed grinding wheel. :)
[04:20:08] <pfred1> yeah well this pipe was oh about 40 foot a section and we were in the mud ...
[04:20:16] <Phydbleep> I'm supposed to get another treadmill this week, so there's the parts. :)
[04:21:08] <pfred1> on that job I saw something if i hadn't have seen it I'd have never believed it
[04:21:31] <pfred1> we were slinging up one of them sections of pipe out of the mud and when we lifted it the mud sucked the hot tar right off the pipe!
[04:21:36] <pfred1> it blew my mind to see it
[04:21:46] <pfred1> I was like man I knew this mud was sticky but I had no idea
[04:22:32] <pfred1> when we were setting the height of that line we'd use 12 ton house jacks and we'd throw wooden sleepers under the jacks
[04:23:09] <pfred1> and we'd set then 90 degrees to each other keep putting them in lose count as to how many 4x4=s sank into the mud
[04:23:22] <pfred1> just to move that pipe a little bit
[04:23:23] <Phydbleep> Then throw more on top when those sank.. :)
[04:23:29] <pfred1> well yeah
[04:23:38] <pfred1> we'd go maybe 10 stacks high pumped into the mud
[04:23:51] <pfred1> just to move that pipe 3/8 of an inch
[04:23:53] <Phydbleep> Gulf coast?
[04:24:12] <pfred1> it was a gravity return on the condensate line so it had to pitch right
[04:24:27] <pfred1> just pitching that line took 3 weeks
[04:24:45] <pfred1> nah it was a steam line for heat
[04:24:47] <Phydbleep> And 15 cords of 4x4's.. :)
[04:25:00] <pfred1> well we'd go scrounging around the job for scrap wood
[04:25:19] <pfred1> that place was the 1995 labrotory of the year worldwide
[04:25:22] <pfred1> it was a hell of a place
[04:25:39] <pfred1> it's abandoned today
[04:25:50] <Phydbleep> Did the foreman ever 'lose' his truck as a fill block?
[04:25:54] <pfred1> place cost billions though to make
[04:26:22] <Phydbleep> Whee was it?
[04:26:25] <pfred1> place had remarkable concrete
[04:26:26] <Phydbleep> where
[04:26:31] <pfred1> it's right across the street from me
[04:26:40] <pfred1> I'll find it's website
[04:27:14] <pfred1> http://www.wai.com/Structures/Labs/ciba.html
[04:27:20] <pfred1> that's one page about it
[04:27:43] <pfred1> and this is totall bullshit! Total Construction Cost: $120 Million
[04:27:57] <pfred1> the damned concrete contract alone was $220 mils
[04:28:25] <Phydbleep> Damn.. If it's empty i'd be tempted to move in..
[04:28:40] <pfred1> the whole complex is abandoned
[04:28:49] <pfred1> there must be like 60 buildings over there
[04:29:03] <pfred1> that's justo ne of them
[04:29:35] <pfred1> place got sold to shering plough and they're like tanking right now
[04:30:14] <pfred1> but that life sciences building is amazing
[04:30:24] <pfred1> it can withstand a nuke hit within like 100 yards of it
[04:30:35] <Phydbleep> Actually I need something like an old blastproof B-52 hanger
[04:31:08] <pfred1> you see the gaps inbetween the windows?
[04:31:12] <Jymmm> Phydbleep just get typo maps and look for dead end "jeep trails"
[04:31:12] <Phydbleep> Well... That's damn close.. What's the biggest room in the building?
[04:31:41] <pfred1> between each floor is a mechanical floor
[04:32:08] <pfred1> and the mechanical floor is oh I'd say maybe 7 foot ceiling
[04:32:10] <Phydbleep> Jymmm: I get the search and rescue maps.. Lot's of detail. :)
[04:32:29] <pfred1> and on each mecnahical floor is precast concrete trusses floor to ceiling
[04:32:45] <pfred1> the building has no steel in it per se
[04:32:53] <pfred1> it's all precast concrete
[04:32:53] <Phydbleep> pfred1: 12 or 16 foot ceilings in the rest?
[04:33:06] <pfred1> oh i don't know
[04:33:19] <pfred1> in the middle is an atrium goes ground to roof
[04:33:30] <Phydbleep> I'll take it. :)
[04:33:45] <pfred1> the place is the size of your typical surburban mall I'd say
[04:33:50] <Phydbleep> Where is this?
[04:34:23] <pfred1> it's riht across ths street fro mme
[04:34:32] <pfred1> I used to walk to work
[04:34:50] <pfred1> was quicker than goung down to my car starting it driving over and walking
[04:35:03] <Phydbleep> The house i designed covers a 1 acre (206"x206") lot with a 12 foot easement at the edges.
[04:35:18] <Phydbleep> 194" on a side.
[04:35:58] <pfred1> there's a heat exchanger in that ubilding 4 stories tall
[04:36:15] <pfred1> yeah sure it only cost 120 mils sure it did ...
[04:36:17] <Phydbleep> Hm.. But i'd have to move to Jersey......
[04:36:26] <pfred1> that frigging heat exchanger alone was millions!
[04:36:42] <pfred1> the whole place is positive pressurized
[04:36:52] <pfred1> and the fan rooms are unbelievable in it
[04:37:01] <Phydbleep> What's the hepa level?
[04:37:06] <pfred1> the tinknockers just about broke down and cried getting the pressure they had to spec at
[04:37:13] <pfred1> but they managed to do it!
[04:37:30] <pfred1> building os completely isolated from the environment
[04:37:39] <pfred1> nothing can get out
[04:38:22] <pfred1> it had to meet all kinds of federal regulations for the work they plannedon doing in it
[04:38:31] <pfred1> you know working with deadly diseases
[04:38:48] <pfred1> that's why it had to be nuke proof so even i nthe event of a nuke war the stuff couldn't get out
[04:39:25] <pfred1> one tinknocker held up this venturi valve and said to me hey yo usee this valve?
[04:39:28] <pfred1> I was like yeah
[04:39:37] <pfred1> he said this one valve costs $920
[04:39:44] <pfred1> I looked around me they were everywhere!
[04:40:28] <Phydbleep> BSL4
[04:40:40] <pfred1> at it's peak we were generating 4 40 yard dumpsters of debris a day at that job
[04:41:06] <Phydbleep> That's not positive pressure.. That a negative pressure enviroment.
[04:41:09] <pfred1> just form clean up of the mechanical work
[04:41:27] <pfred1> wel lwhatever it is it was unreal it was unheard of what it was specced at
[04:41:42] <pfred1> the fans in the fan rooms look like 747 engines
[04:41:45] <Phydbleep> Everthing goes to the filters in the center.
[04:42:34] <pfred1> yeah then up that heat exchanger shaft
[04:42:44] <pfred1> that cost like 4 million all by itself
[04:43:06] <pfred1> this building is I mean it's up there with the pyramids
[04:43:07] <Phydbleep> Hmmm.. But I'd have to move to Jersey......
[04:43:25] <pfred1> but to look at it you'd think nothing of it
[04:43:38] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep does not want to move to Jersey......
[04:43:52] <pfred1> I guess it broke ciba geigy to build it
[04:44:12] <pfred1> the place is the Hope diamond everyone that gets involved seems to go broke
[04:44:28] <pfred1> or run away screaming from it
[04:44:57] <pfred1> I seen another place on the web has pics of the labs
[04:45:14] <pfred1> tho while we were working on it cameras were forbidden on the jobsite
[04:45:24] <Phydbleep> I'd never be able to claim squatters rights..
[04:45:29] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[04:45:58] <pfred1> http://www.ewalab.com/projects/corp/ciba.htm
[04:46:03] <pfred1> I built that place!
[04:46:46] <pfred1> and see the pic of them labs?
[04:46:52] <pfred1> there's hundreds of those rooms!
[04:47:11] <pfred1> they just go on and on floor after floor hallway after hallway of them
[04:47:11] <Phydbleep> Nice, Clean out all the junk and set up some machines for me. :)
[04:47:37] <pfred1> man you wouldn't know how to act on evne the mechanical floors of this place
[04:47:44] <pfred1> it's huge!
[04:48:27] <pfred1> and look at the difference of info just between these two pages one says place is 800,000 sqft other says it's 444,000 sqft
[04:48:34] <pfred1> so no one knows the real deal what's going on there
[04:49:01] <pfred1> far as i know it's abandoned today
[04:49:09] <pfred1> I don't see anyone over there anymore
[04:49:31] <Phydbleep> I want room for the forge, furnace, thermal exchange units and air conditioner.
[04:50:00] <pfred1> I worked on the mechanical building across the street that supports this place
[04:50:24] <Phydbleep> And the surounding 24 acres for the garden and mirror array.
[04:51:00] <pfred1> we don't get a whole lot of sun here
[04:51:47] <Phydbleep> New Mexico, We have 3 seasons.. Cold, Dusty, Hot and Dusty.
[04:51:53] <pfred1> 98.7 3.1 814:36.38 mencoder
[04:52:11] <Phydbleep> Dusty is a biannual season.
[04:52:28] <pfred1> before my load average was running over 2.00
[04:52:52] <Phydbleep> Well.. Throw more cpu at it.
[04:53:01] <pfred1> Phydbleep so you don't want to see my sexy statue i just got?
[04:53:31] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is still scared, but morbid curiosity has hold of him.
[04:54:00] <pfred1> Phydbleep people throw out everything here
[04:54:02] <Phydbleep> Sure, Why not..
[04:54:58] <Jymmm> hey, what aluminum is the strongest/hardest?
[04:55:06] <pfred1> Phydbleep I'm hoping this season to get an upgrade system I should be findingthem more powerful than this system from here on in
[04:55:13] <Jymmm> the numbers mean shit to me
[04:55:32] <pfred1> hard=brittle
[04:55:58] <Jymmm> I think that'll be ok
[04:55:58] <pfred1> hard aluminum would more than likely crack under stress
[04:56:03] <Jymmm> as a rail?
[04:56:37] <pfred1> only cheap chinese make machine parts out of aluminum
[04:56:55] <Jymmm> pfred1 Well, I guess I'm now chinese!
[04:57:01] <pfred1> Phydbleep http://69.249.77.18:10000/new/Multimedia/PicsITook/MayStuff/p4170002.jpg
[04:57:25] <pfred1> Jymmm there's lots of valid reasons why good machines are made out of either steel or cast iron
[04:57:33] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. We're experiencing lag in Europe and will need to rehub. Mention this as needed to EU users as they come back.
[04:57:54] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Who told you that you could take pictures in my backyard?
[04:58:37] <pfred1> freaking services suck!
[04:58:47] <Jymmm> lol, nah just a rehub
[04:58:47] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Did you hear me? Who told you that you could take pictures in my backyard?
[04:59:05] <pfred1> Phydbleep no that's my front yard
[04:59:15] <pfred1> and she's just hanging out there til I get her to my new place
[04:59:23] <pfred1> man that thing is heavy!
[04:59:31] <pfred1> I'd say close to 300 pounds
[04:59:41] <pfred1> I cna just barely pick her up
[04:59:49] <pfred1> andi pick up 200 pounds like it's nothing so
[05:00:18] <pfred1> she's carved rock not evne concrete
[05:00:28] <Phydbleep> Cool! :)
[05:00:45] <pfred1> yeah she's not one of them cheap assed molded deals
[05:00:45] <Jymmm> pfred1 YOU BASTARD!!! She's handless!
[05:01:04] <pfred1> Jymmm I found her laying on the regrind pile at my town dumps
[05:01:14] <Jymmm> ah cool
[05:01:16] <pfred1> they were going to grind her up for roadbed!
[05:01:27] <Phydbleep> You can salvage there?
[05:02:44] <Phydbleep> pfred1: They let you salvage there?
[05:03:08] <Jymmm> * Jymmm buckles up for the ride (again) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
[05:03:22] <pfred1> Phydbleep scavange?
[05:03:25] <pfred1> yeah anymore this network getting as bad as flipping EFnet
[05:04:22] <Phydbleep> pfred1: 'Creatively aquire pre-owned merchandise'?
[05:04:27] <Phydbleep> Missed. :\
[05:05:09] <Phydbleep> pfred1: 'Creatively aquire pre-owned merchandise'?
[05:05:33] <pfred1> * pfred1 gives ChanServ a dirty look ...
[05:05:53] <pfred1> Phydbleep technically there is a town ordinance agaonst it but well I'm a hard guy to try to tell anything to
[05:05:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep give ChanServ a towel.
[05:07:04] <Phydbleep> Wheee!
[05:07:21] <pfred1> oh these splits are horse crap
[05:07:56] <Phydbleep> Agreed, Going to go paint the rest of the shop.
[05:08:03] <Phydbleep> bbiaw
[05:08:09] <pfred1> yeah doing my movie here
[05:16:50] <lilo> [Global Notice] Hi all. Recapping, we experienced European hubbing problems a few minutes ago, and we've reconfigured our hubbing to resolve the issue. Thanks for your patience and understanding, and thank you for using freenode!
[06:27:41] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep cusses the autoroute in Eagle..
[06:45:30] <anonimasu> morning
[06:49:06] <Phydbleep> Morning anonimasu :)
[06:51:47] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is digging for more smd libraries for Eagle.
[06:53:49] <anonimasu> nice :)
[06:54:13] <anonimasu> I am working and looking half hearted for how much resolution I can get outof the 8bit pwm channel of a atmel
[06:54:52] <Phydbleep> 255 bits.
[06:55:11] <Phydbleep> 255 step rather.
[06:55:49] <Phydbleep> Clock/255?
[06:56:06] <anonimasu> 1.6mhz
[06:56:06] <anonimasu> that is
[06:56:39] <anonimasu> that should be plenty for 0-5v output..
[06:56:44] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is using 100kHz PWM with a 20mHz clock... Lots of spare cycles.
[06:56:54] <anonimasu> I have hardware pwm ;)
[06:57:37] <anonimasu> the chip will wait for a analog input interrupt then change the output in accordance to the input..
[06:57:40] <anonimasu> iverted
[06:57:44] <anonimasu> from 0-5v to 5-0
[06:57:45] <anonimasu> :)
[06:58:19] <Phydbleep> I can hear most hardware pwm.. Lazy bastards dont want to design a 50kHz supply..
[06:58:36] <anonimasu> hear?
[06:58:36] <anonimasu> heh
[06:58:37] <anonimasu> :)
[06:59:25] <anonimasu> 150khz hardware pwm ;)
[07:00:17] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a low tolerence for high frequency whines in the 17kHz - 28kHz bands.
[07:00:34] <anonimasu> hm, I hear tv's and stuff always..
[07:00:58] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[07:01:34] <Phydbleep> 35kHz is real painfull at anything > 70db.
[07:02:35] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder if the resolution will be enough
[07:02:43] <anonimasu> or if I need a 10 bit DAC chip to go with it..
[07:04:15] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is using PIC18F452's ..
[07:04:33] <anonimasu> I am using a attiny15l
[07:04:35] <anonimasu> :)
[07:04:36] <Phydbleep> Hardware pwm AND a 10 bit dac. :)
[07:05:03] <anonimasu> I cant program pics :/
[07:05:23] <anonimasu> well never tried it
[07:05:30] <Phydbleep> That's the aggregator.. The encoders use 16F819's
[07:05:45] <anonimasu> ok
[07:06:45] <anonimasu> I wonder if it'll be accurate enoug
[07:06:47] <anonimasu> h
[07:06:49] <Phydbleep> $120 in parts for 1 200V/20A and 4 100V/10A drive channels and 5 encoder sets. :)
[07:07:20] <anonimasu> yep
[07:07:29] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is building a signal converter for a sensor in he's car
[07:07:42] <Phydbleep> 4069 ppr on the encoders plus a sync marker for counting turns at velocity.
[07:08:07] <anonimasu> hm, so over a certain speed you switch to veltocity mode..
[07:08:25] <anonimasu> the only trouble with it is that I need to order a DAC if I need one..
[07:08:26] <Phydbleep> Anything over 360 rpm.
[07:08:32] <anonimasu> hm, ok
[07:09:40] <Phydbleep> Do it in the aggregator.. Set a move point and a velocity, poll for current position/completion.
[07:10:17] <anonimasu> what?
[07:10:46] <Phydbleep> $200 in parts to make it with all 5 channels as 200V/20A.
[07:10:54] <anonimasu> yeah
[07:11:14] <anonimasu> how how much would it add if you were to add counters, that you could poll from the aggregator ?
[07:11:26] <Phydbleep> You set a "move-to" point X rotations + Y degrees.
[07:11:43] <Phydbleep> That's all the parts.
[07:11:57] <Phydbleep> Encoders, drives, everything.
[07:12:10] <anonimasu> what happens to emc?
[07:12:19] <Phydbleep> emc2
[07:12:25] <anonimasu> are you going to generate all thoose messages and just toss them out
[07:12:25] <anonimasu> =?
[07:12:59] <anonimasu> motion planning will that be on the controller or on the computer running emc?
[07:13:03] <Phydbleep> It looks like hal will have a i/o set that is programmable.
[07:13:04] <anonimasu> s/emc/emc2
[07:13:24] <anonimasu> you will need segmentqueue at that speed..
[07:13:51] <Phydbleep> Comlpex motion will be emc, simple planar motion will be set&forget.
[07:15:44] <Phydbleep> I want something that will usually just display carriage position and with emc be capable of cutting threads with a servo on the leadscrew.
[07:16:08] <anonimasu> hm ok
[07:16:30] <Phydbleep> This is on an old monster 11x60 lathe.
[07:17:54] <anonimasu> I was thinking about the router les was talking about..
[07:18:06] <anonimasu> if you have non smooth motion at thoose speeds things break :)
[07:19:08] <Phydbleep> Yeah, That's one of the apps I was designing for as well... I could aatually offload the velocity calcs to the aggregator as well.
[07:19:34] <Phydbleep> use a 40mHz clock.
[07:19:38] <anonimasu> how does that work if you are cutting a circle..?
[07:19:45] <anonimasu> if you switch into velocity mode while cutting?
[07:20:24] <Phydbleep> lockout condition.. velocity mode is single axis at a time.
[07:20:44] <anonimasu> what do you mean with that?
[07:20:58] <Phydbleep> circles are 18ipm with a 20:1 drive.
[07:21:14] <anonimasu> :/
[07:21:33] <Phydbleep> 36ipm for 10:1
[07:21:40] <anonimasu> 427mm/min
[07:22:09] <anonimasu> hm, that'll be a rather large problem
[07:23:44] <anonimasu> if it's a router with a fairly high speed spindle, to keep the chipload up you need large feeds
[07:23:46] <Phydbleep> That can be pushed from 360 rpm up to 1200+ rpm at the shafts if you want to ad ~ $20 per channel in encoder parts.
[07:24:33] <anonimasu> how many ipm is 1200rpm of the motors?
[07:25:18] <Phydbleep> 60 for 20:1, 120 for 10:1
[07:25:29] <anonimasu> 3m/min
[07:27:27] <anonimasu> still far from the speeds industrial machines go at..
[07:27:31] <Phydbleep> There is also a way to get 100k ppr @ 20k rpm for ~ $40/channel.
[07:27:48] <anonimasu> although I cant go that fast, because I cant generate pulses fast enough..
[07:28:26] <anonimasu> hm ok
[07:29:07] <Phydbleep> This should process at 1 mHz for the data flow using 2 lpt ports.
[07:30:55] <Phydbleep> I think a P-II 300 can keep up nicely this way.
[07:33:08] <anonimasu> :)
[07:33:34] <anonimasu> hm I have the user interface designed for the product I am working on now
[07:34:45] <Phydbleep> Don't worry.. Marketing will F it up. :)
[07:35:22] <anonimasu> lol
[07:35:39] <anonimasu> I work with that aswell.
[07:35:44] <anonimasu> so I am not worried..
[07:35:46] <Phydbleep> Isn't that the way of the world?
[07:36:19] <anonimasu> not mine..
[07:36:20] <anonimasu> :)
[07:36:51] <anonimasu> my world rocks ^_^
[07:37:22] <Phydbleep> That's why I 'consult' for fun not profit.. i can call a dickhead a dickhead and walk away. :)
[07:38:43] <Phydbleep> All my motor ocntroller designs that are being used for bicycle motors I did for free just to get the tech jump started..
[07:39:21] <anonimasu> nice
[07:40:54] <Phydbleep> IRF520's are your friends.. :)
[07:41:06] <anonimasu> what's that?
[07:41:47] <Phydbleep> MOSFET/HEXFET 100V/10A
[07:41:55] <anonimasu> ah ok
[07:42:15] <Phydbleep> $0.99 each in single lots @ DigiKey. :)
[07:42:32] <Phydbleep> $55.00/100. :)
[07:43:46] <Phydbleep> Which is good because 5 channels of 4 wire stepper driver uses 100 of them
[07:44:08] <Phydbleep> s/100/80
[07:45:07] <anonimasu> hehe
[07:45:08] <anonimasu> yeah
[07:46:49] <Phydbleep> Woops.. Wrong # again.. 5 channels * 4 wires * 2 devices = 40 per set.
[07:50:05] <Phydbleep> Speaking of which..
[07:50:19] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has driver boards to design.
[07:51:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[07:51:44] <anonimasu> laters
[08:32:53] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep wishes the script kiddies would quit playing "flood the router".
[09:08:40] <anonimasu> * anonimasu ywans
[09:10:13] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep screams.. "Argh! smd packages that are measured in micrometers...."
[09:12:23] <Phydbleep> I can remember when I could read the part #'s on chips without using a jewelers loupe.. :\
[09:13:24] <anonimasu> neat
[09:13:26] <anonimasu> ^_^
[09:13:30] <Phydbleep> And a 0 Ohm resistor was a jumper wire..
[09:13:38] <anonimasu> hm, my project will work flawlessly..
[09:13:47] <anonimasu> since I can vary the pwm in %
[09:14:02] <anonimasu> I am not interested in the actual numbers just having a linear inverted outout..
[09:14:10] <anonimasu> since I can tune that any way I want in the car..
[09:14:38] <Phydbleep> Did you end up with exactly what you designed and nothing close to what you wanted?
[09:14:58] <anonimasu> nope..
[09:15:11] <anonimasu> I dont care for the values really
[09:15:27] <anonimasu> it's a different sensor :) that I need to tune the car for.. but the signal is inveted..
[09:15:29] <anonimasu> from the stock sensor..
[09:15:41] <Phydbleep> New O2 sensor?
[09:15:47] <anonimasu> no
[09:15:48] <anonimasu> :)
[09:15:55] <anonimasu> a MAP sensor instead of a AFM
[09:16:42] <Phydbleep> Ah.. Swapped one three letter acronym for another. :)
[09:16:51] <anonimasu> yeah
[09:17:00] <anonimasu> a pressure sensor instead of a airflowmeter
[09:17:21] <Phydbleep> Supercharger system?
[09:17:52] <anonimasu> turbo..
[09:18:14] <anonimasu> I couldnt fit a supercharger :)
[09:18:31] <Phydbleep> Crap.. i have a bad feeling that the faults around Guatamala are about to pop..
[09:19:28] <anonimasu> :(
[09:19:33] <Phydbleep> http://www.iris.edu/seismon/bigmap/index.phtml
[09:19:52] <anonimasu> the AFM limits how much air you can get into the engine..
[09:19:57] <anonimasu> and how driveable it is over 3000rpm..
[09:20:03] <anonimasu> since that's where it bottoms out
[09:20:20] <anonimasu> very fat at the top of the maps..
[09:20:57] <Phydbleep> What kind of car?
[09:21:13] <anonimasu> a toyota celica gt4
[09:21:46] <Phydbleep> 5-speed kidney remover. :)
[09:21:53] <anonimasu> haha
[09:22:07] <anonimasu> all wheel drive fun ;)
[09:23:25] <Phydbleep> Hmm I wonder if there's a 2400 dpi Xante at the shop that needs "testing".....
[09:23:46] <anonimasu> haha
[09:24:07] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs to print some 5" encoder wheels.
[09:25:25] <anonimasu> hm, I wonder if I should care to ensure everything is in the memory at all times.
[09:25:29] <anonimasu> on this project..
[09:25:53] <anonimasu> or if I should comply with the LOTUS guideline ;)
[09:26:08] <Phydbleep> This is silly.. Printing 5" encoders to build a printer that will print 2" encoders. :)
[09:26:36] <anonimasu> hm, yeah I'll save it in the memory..
[09:26:42] <anonimasu> mad users are scary.
[09:29:01] <Phydbleep> Not nearly as scary as a mad net-admin. Muwahahaha...:)
[09:30:17] <Phydbleep> Add "* * * * * service network restart" to root's crontab.
[09:41:13] <anonimasu> lol
[09:41:16] <anonimasu> users are more scary..
[09:41:43] <anonimasu> well I need to go now
[09:41:44] <anonimasu> laters
[09:48:50] <Phydbleep> This is scary.. I just learned how to hack Postscript code...
[09:50:33] <alex_joni> gmorning
[09:50:37] <Phydbleep> alex_joni: Morning. :)
[09:50:44] <alex_joni> hey fido ;)
[09:50:54] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is learning how to hack Postscript code...
[09:51:01] <alex_joni> heh
[09:51:06] <alex_joni> hacking a printer?
[09:51:10] <Phydbleep> I hate complex math.
[09:51:22] <alex_joni> tensors? vectors?
[09:51:29] <alex_joni> or simple integral calcs?
[09:51:41] <Phydbleep> Hacking the 2" 12 bit encoder wheel into a 5
[09:51:51] <Phydbleep> 5" 16 bit wheel.
[09:53:23] <Phydbleep> It's 5" 8 bit now.. Working on the other 8 bits. :)
[09:53:44] <alex_joni> heh
[09:54:42] <Phydbleep> Gotta have a hobby and I too poor for a drug addiction. :)
[09:55:27] <alex_joni> lol
[10:08:12] <Phydbleep> Wow.. i need to fix the pwm lookup table now, but it prints 2 - 5", 16 bit (8x2) balanced pwm encoders per page. :)
[10:09:08] <Phydbleep> Did a copy/paste on the data that was there to get 16 bits worth.
[10:47:04] <Phydbleep> Hmm.. Sleep first, then Iwrite a 16 bit Binary reflected Grey code lookup table..
[10:48:04] <Phydbleep> G'nite / G'morning / Good grief I need sleep.. Laters.. :)
[11:03:01] <alex_joni> laters
[11:29:25] <pemmet> g'morning!
[11:30:13] <alex_joni> morning pemmet
[11:30:29] <alex_joni> afternoon even
[12:17:30] <Deech> morning all.
[12:21:48] <alex_joni> hello
[12:41:19] <A-L-P-H-A> you know. I just realized.
[12:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> school is not conducive to learning for me.
[12:41:51] <A-L-P-H-A> when I want to learn something, I pick it up very quickly. When I couldn't give to $hits about the topic, I just ignore it.
[12:42:21] <A-L-P-H-A> like ASM. I couldn't figure it out at all in univesity, and now I can do it with a fair degree. I'm not SUPER, but that will come with experience. :)
[12:55:46] <les> did you get your reamer and stuff?
[12:57:45] <A-L-P-H-A> les, yes.
[12:57:53] <A-L-P-H-A> Yes I did. have I dont anything, no. no i have not.
[12:58:09] <les> ok
[12:58:26] <A-L-P-H-A> am I going to. Yes. Soon. Hopefully. :)
[12:59:13] <les> I had a meeting yesterday with the turkey call company and they want to bring the spray finishing back in
[12:59:28] <A-L-P-H-A> cool.
[12:59:31] <les> So I had better design up that paint robot
[12:59:48] <les> one thing I learned quickly...
[13:00:01] <les> I must not be in the spray booth
[13:00:28] <les> and I cannot hire anyone around here that knows spray finishing
[13:01:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I've totally migrated to thunderbird now.
[13:02:04] <A-L-P-H-A> no more craplook.
[13:03:32] <les> like it huh?
[13:03:43] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't mind it.
[13:03:47] <A-L-P-H-A> it's quick.
[13:03:55] <A-L-P-H-A> outlook was getting TOO slow.
[13:04:10] <A-L-P-H-A> and the migration from outlook to thunderbird is seemless, and painless.
[13:06:20] <A-L-P-H-A> hm.... face, dimple, oil, drill, oil more ream.
[13:06:27] <A-L-P-H-A> after brunch.
[13:15:40] <pemmet> webmail's been my savior...
[13:15:50] <pemmet> not even a program to hack
[13:26:02] <A-L-P-H-A> webmail, I don't like. just somethng about it...
[13:26:30] <pemmet> i guess that might depend on the quality of the webmail
[13:26:37] <pemmet> i have my school's mail and gmail
[13:26:46] <pemmet> gmail is nice... doens't ever stop working
[13:26:54] <pemmet> and it gives me 2+GB of space
[13:27:39] <pemmet> sooooooo
[13:27:46] <A-L-P-H-A> I use gmail too.
[13:27:59] <pemmet> i just found out that my 2D table was origionaly designed for an electron microscope
[13:28:01] <A-L-P-H-A> but just something I don't like having my information on someone elses computer/server
[13:28:21] <pemmet> well no matter what mail service you have, your stuff is on a server at some point
[13:28:56] <pemmet> to me, a mail client is just one more thing to break/gethacked
[13:29:32] <pemmet> but i guess it's just something that comes down to personal preference...
[14:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, les... should I make the shaft first, before I make the bored hole? I can't figure out which is actually better to do first.
[14:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> actually...
[14:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I should probably do this...
[14:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> in this order.
[14:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> sand down the dowel pin.
[14:20:37] <A-L-P-H-A> chuck part so that I don't need to do move it again. dimple, drill. ream. Do the shaft (rought it out), part. Flip part around, fit bearings (sand, test fit, etc).
[14:53:18] <les> hmmm how long is this thing?
[14:59:56] <Imperator_> paul_c: are you arround ???? Tomorrow I get response about a flight to fest :-)
[15:05:01] <Imperator_> have some questions !!!
[15:10:01] <paul_c> * paul_c is about.
[15:11:09] <Imperator_> Hi Paul
[15:11:18] <Imperator_> i have made a dessision
[15:11:29] <Imperator_> :-)
[15:12:02] <Imperator_> on which airport are you arraving ?? Dulles Washington
[15:12:24] <paul_c> yup
[15:13:33] <paul_c> staying at http://www.extendedstayamerica.com/minisite/default.asp?hotelID=697
[15:13:41] <Imperator_> How do you travel to gathersburg and in which Motel are you staying ?? and what are you paiing there ??
[15:13:55] <paul_c> (booked a full week 'cos it works out cheaper)
[15:14:01] <A-L-P-H-A> save money, bunk up.
[15:14:31] <Imperator_> bunk up ???
[15:14:32] <paul_c> will use http://www.supershuttle.com/htm/cities/dca.htm to get to Gaithersburg.
[15:15:13] <Imperator_> what wil it cost ?
[15:15:30] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_, share beds/rooms.
[15:15:41] <Imperator_> :-)
[15:15:47] <paul_c> Imperator_: Have a quote for $28
[15:15:55] <A-L-P-H-A> for a WEEK?
[15:15:55] <Imperator_> one way
[15:16:11] <paul_c> one way, yes.
[15:16:30] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab.
[15:16:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm ditching windows. too pissed at it.
[15:16:43] <Imperator_> A-L-P-H-A: do you also join fest ?
[15:16:59] <A-L-P-H-A> Imperator_. ask me again after I reboot
[15:18:15] <Imperator_> in which hotel are you staying, Paul ?
[15:18:34] <paul_c> http://www.extendedstayamerica.com/minisite/default.asp?hotelID=697
[15:20:23] <paul_c> $385 for a week's stay
[15:21:00] <Imperator_> a week means 6 or 7 nights ???
[15:21:32] <A-L-P-H-A> back
[15:21:35] <A-L-P-H-A> with a working system.
[15:21:44] <A-L-P-H-A> argh. haven't booted into linux in months.
[15:21:49] <A-L-P-H-A> and windows has given me enough pain.
[15:22:11] <Imperator_> I have asked if you are also travel to fest A-L-P-H-A
[15:22:28] <paul_c> for example, check in on the 23rd, check out on the 30th - One week.
[15:22:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I am about a 12 hour drive to codefest.
[15:22:44] <Imperator_> like my flight
[15:23:25] <paul_c> check out on the 29th, price jumps tp $524
[15:23:39] <Imperator_> ups
[15:24:09] <Imperator_> when are you arriving ?
[15:24:26] <paul_c> Thursday
[15:24:37] <A-L-P-H-A> No, I am not going to code fest... my coding is limited, and I don't even know the structure of code. So I'd be a chicken running around NIST without a head... and security would probably not like me, and think that I'm a Canuck spy.
[15:25:21] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: You would have the protection of H.M.gov
[15:25:49] <Imperator_> I'm a german spy
[15:26:40] <paul_c> Imperator_: You need to email Fred Proctor once your flight is confirmed.
[15:26:56] <Imperator_> ok
[15:27:14] <Imperator_> I have writen a mail to John
[15:28:48] <A-L-P-H-A> freak'n evil.
[15:29:00] <A-L-P-H-A> my mouse does not like to work in linux
[15:29:04] <A-L-P-H-A> it's acting funny
[15:29:56] <paul_c> scroll mouse ?
[15:30:56] <paul_c> and/or modem installed & conflicts with interrupts ?
[15:31:20] <A-L-P-H-A> microsoft wireless optical mouse 2.0a
[15:31:24] <A-L-P-H-A> it's acting REALLY funny
[15:31:32] <A-L-P-H-A> like it's clicking when I just move the damn mouse.
[15:31:35] <Imperator_> paul_c: have you booked over that opodo webside ?
[15:32:11] <A-L-P-H-A> argh! I'm gonna KILL this soon.
[15:32:27] <paul_c> no - I booked direct with BA and got the seat I wanted.
[15:33:31] <Imperator_> nice
[15:35:16] <paul_c> do you know when you arrive yet ?
[15:36:18] <Imperator_> I know a girl who is working in a traveling agency, she will look tomorrow for a flight
[15:37:16] <Imperator_> at that webside i see a flight from stuttgart also for 400 EUR that will arrive saturday 19:00
[15:41:12] <A-L-P-H-A> lets see if replacing batteries would work
[15:45:24] <paul_c> if you can still get a flight for 400 Eur, take it.
[15:46:18] <A-L-P-H-A> is there a way to select the type of mouse I'm using?
[15:47:34] <Imperator_> yes, paul ! btw. what are you paiing ?? I remember that in England everything is expensive
[15:49:15] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, is there a way to select the type of mouse I'm using in linux?
[15:49:56] <paul_c> Imperator_: The flight was (about) �230
[15:50:18] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Yes - You need to edit the XF86Config-4
[15:50:34] <A-L-P-H-A> XORG config file.
[15:50:41] <A-L-P-H-A> k. I'm gonna look into it now.
[15:51:36] <Imperator_> thats also ok, BA is also not so bad ! the flight i found is Delta Airlines, i think they fly with the older ones
[15:54:16] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: Try setting the mouse protocol to "auto"
[15:54:36] <paul_c> time for fod.
[15:54:45] <A-L-P-H-A> 'ight.
[15:54:53] <A-L-P-H-A> I was trying to fide the proper protocol
[17:00:37] <les> I am doing a search trying to find a good deal on a VFD
[17:00:57] <les> I need about 7-10 hp up to 400Hz
[17:01:23] <les> Has anyone seen any good deals out there?
[17:04:50] <cradek> your meaning of VFD doesn't seem to match mine - what are you talking about exactly?
[17:11:54] <les> 3 phase motor drive
[17:12:01] <A-L-P-H-A> omg... this was so painful.
[17:12:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I've resorted to going back to a wired mouse
[17:13:05] <les> VFD=variable frequency drive
[17:13:35] <les> best price I have seen is about $600
[17:14:31] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: The three protocols are PS/2 IMPS/2 and Auto
[17:15:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I set it to auto, and no go.
[17:16:06] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28273
[17:16:10] <Imperator_> I use IMPS/2
[17:16:22] <Imperator_> on /dev/psaux
[17:16:31] <A-L-P-H-A> this is USB.
[17:16:39] <Imperator_> no ps/2
[17:17:10] <Imperator_> do you have a USB Mice ?
[17:17:21] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[17:18:52] <Imperator_> oh
[17:20:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I freak'n give up for now. time to machine something.
[17:20:37] <A-L-P-H-A> maybe a nice BIG spike, to put through a linux Cd.
[17:48:25] <A-L-P-H-A> off to the supplier AGAIN!
[18:46:02] <robin_sz> meep?
[18:47:35] <A-L-P-H-A> proper use of a reamer?
[18:48:00] <A-L-P-H-A> what's the proper usage of a reamer? like do I just use it like a normal drill? peck? slow rpms? fast rpms?
[18:48:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm going from a .120" hole to .125" hole.
[18:50:29] <A-L-P-H-A> hungry
[18:50:47] <A-L-P-H-A> so hungry... I need buy some food from the grocer
[18:53:16] <paul_c> A-L-P-H-A: ream @ half drilling speed & twice drilling feed
[18:58:11] <A-L-P-H-A> half RPM, and double FEED. 'ight.
[18:58:27] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, ? that correct?
[18:58:35] <A-L-P-H-A> double the plunge rate
[19:00:37] <paul_c> That's what my little black book recommends.
[19:13:17] <robin_sz> and never use any lube. always keep your reamers altogether in a cardboard box
[19:14:18] <robin_sz> ideally in the back of your truck for a few months so they clang together nicely
[19:17:45] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: You forgot to tell him to soak the whole thing (reamers/box/truck) In 90wt gear oil for a month... :)
[19:18:30] <pfred1> Phydbleep use PB
[19:19:10] <pfred1> Phydbleep http://www.blasterchemical.com/index.cfm
[19:19:21] <Phydbleep> Can't.. Out of Grape jelly.. And peanut butter and KY is just 'Bleah!"..
[19:19:22] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: no never do that .. reamers are alergic to oil .. they prefer water
[19:26:45] <A-L-P-H-A> woohoo! that looks very good... the hole anyways.
[19:26:58] <pfred1> 1957 bathtub chemist William K. Westly invents PB
[19:27:12] <A-L-P-H-A> I stuck a 1/8" drill rod in there, and it just goes in.
[19:27:28] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A found it with no fur around it?
[19:27:50] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, ?
[19:28:04] <A-L-P-H-A> could you not be pfred1 for one day?
[19:28:38] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A you're the one who came in and said "woohoo! that looks very good... the hole anyways."
[19:28:54] <A-L-P-H-A> cause I was just in here, talking about boring a hole.
[19:29:09] <A-L-P-H-A> and linux decided to get up, and reboot itself into terminal mode.
[19:29:33] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A Linux is user friendly, it's just choosy about who it's friends are :)
[19:29:34] <A-L-P-H-A> paul_c, thanks for the info... worked mint.
[19:30:57] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A come to think of it I drilled a hole myself today like 5/32 to hold some tie wire in a pin
[19:31:13] <pfred1> I gotta quit lending out my engine hoist people always screw it up :(
[19:31:34] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: But, If pfred1 isn't pfred1 one for a day how would we know he wasn't a spy from one of the major manufacurers looking to rip off the emc code?
[19:31:56] <pfred1> Phydbleep isn't EMC open sores?
[19:32:12] <robin_sz> well emc1 is pd
[19:32:22] <robin_sz> so anyone can rip it off if they want
[19:32:33] <pfred1> yeah the government wrote it didn't they?
[19:33:07] <Phydbleep> Yeah, but some of the ideas that get discussed in here would make them very nervous, After all I want to 0 their profit margin.. :)
[19:33:43] <pfred1> Phydbleep I'm not a big believer in residual payments myself
[19:34:55] <robin_sz> it will be interesting to see if Art uses the segmetqueue stuff when its fixed
[19:35:07] <cradek> when?
[19:35:16] <robin_sz> it is?
[19:35:23] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is a believer in "Do it, Have fun, Tell everyone else how to do it and watch ceo's/cfo's tear their hair out.." :)
[19:35:27] <cradek> "if it's ever"
[19:35:28] <pfred1> robin_sz is it GPLed?
[19:35:35] <robin_sz> dont hink so
[19:37:25] <robin_sz> I do know hes planning to use a "modified EMC trajectory planner" in his new product .. i cant imagine he means the old planner
[19:39:08] <pfred1> product?
[19:39:19] <pfred1> ones and zeros doth not a product make in my eyes!
[19:39:32] <robin_sz> yeah well
[19:39:34] <robin_sz> whatever
[19:39:52] <robin_sz> if poeple pay hime cash for it .. its a product
[19:40:28] <robin_sz> he now has over 2500 licensed users ... at $150 a time .. you do the maths
[19:40:43] <pfred1> and if people put it up on gnutella?
[19:40:58] <pfred1> free the mallocs!
[19:41:02] <les> The current state of segmentqueue as I am seeing it is that it now runs without stopping as it did before chris' fix
[19:41:06] <pfred1> free willie
[19:41:12] <les> but
[19:41:24] <robin_sz> pfred1: that would be thievery and piracy
[19:41:35] <les> it sometimes miscalculates velocities
[19:41:39] <pfred1> robin_sz you ever been on a ship boarded by pirates?
[19:41:57] <robin_sz> ive had stuff stolen, smae ting
[19:42:00] <pfred1> robin_sz theft implies someone losing something
[19:42:12] <pfred1> he's still got his copy right?
[19:42:17] <les> and it will be jerky if the pionts are very close and the speed is high
[19:42:30] <les> points
[19:43:06] <robin_sz> pfred1: theft is theft. period. if you want free stuff, stick to open source, stealing other peoples non-free work is not right either.
[19:43:10] <Phydbleep> les: BTW.. 5 channel driver/encoder set, 1 chan 200V 20A, 4 chans 100V 10A, encoders are 4096 ppr minimum.. $120 in parts. :)
[19:43:29] <les> The latter may just be an issue of queue size and computer speed
[19:43:36] <les> The former is a bug.
[19:43:59] <les> Phy that sounds pretty good
[19:44:10] <pfred1> robin_sz it's only theft if someone loses something
[19:44:41] <pfred1> robin_sz if he has a disk of code in his hand and I grab it out of his hand I am stealing
[19:44:42] <Phydbleep> To get all 5 channels as 200V/20A is $200... These are 4 wire (stepper) drive channels as well.
[19:45:17] <robin_sz> pfred1: so you would be happy if I took some GPL code and used it in my closed source product then?
[19:45:37] <pfred1> robin_sz why not? as long as I can still download it
[19:45:45] <pfred1> the GPL allows you to sell code
[19:45:49] <Phydbleep> pfred1: That's the Islamic copyright model and i actually like it.
[19:45:52] <pfred1> for as much as you can get!
[19:46:35] <pfred1> all the GPL says is you have ot give credit and access to the sourcecode and if you modify it you have to provide your souece
[19:46:38] <Phydbleep> Under Islamic law an individual is allowed to make 1 copy of any work for personal use.
[19:47:01] <pfred1> Phydbleep with computers well copyright is out the window
[19:47:48] <robin_sz> right, so I can sell (without source code) GPL code on my embedded product (say EMC2) and you have no problem with that? kewl .. I'll use it on some routers then
[19:48:21] <pfred1> as long as you let whoever asks for it have access to the sourcecode it's perfectly legal
[19:48:33] <pfred1> TIVO is Linux
[19:48:39] <pfred1> they sell it
[19:48:57] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm...
[19:48:59] <robin_sz> so i dont want to give away the source
[19:49:07] <pfred1> they probably have the GPLed code on their website
[19:49:13] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm right now thinking... I need a right handed tool... and I've got a left hand tool.
[19:49:14] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Not at all.. The Islamic model works nicely there too.. If it's for you and you're not selling copies of someone elses work.. I.E. Go to the libraay and photocopy a book, it's a legal copy, try to sell that copy and you get into trouble.
[19:49:25] <pfred1> robin_sz why then the EFF will see you in court then
[19:49:29] <robin_sz> no
[19:49:35] <robin_sz> you said it would be OK
[19:49:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I either 1.) buy a new tool. 2.) flip the gantry around (which is easily doable, as it's modular)
[19:50:11] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: OK for"personal use" not OF for sale.
[19:50:16] <pfred1> robin_sz Redhat sells Linux no one seems to have a problem with them
[19:50:18] <robin_sz> pfred1: you said it would be OK for me not to give source code away and I wouldnt get into trouble
[19:50:20] <Phydbleep> s/OF/OK
[19:51:13] <pfred1> robin_sz technically everything's legal until you hear the cell door slam shut
[19:51:20] <Phydbleep> pfred1: And you can get a source pkg for every bit of redhat... What you are paying for with redhat is the support not the os.
[19:51:53] <pfred1> Phydbleep no they'll sell you the disk for $ before you ever get any support
[19:52:02] <pfred1> and they'll hope to hell you don't need any support
[19:52:32] <robin_sz> see .. when someone breaks GPL copyright you get on your high morla ground "the EFF will see you in court" etc, but when you talk about commercila software you are happy to break copyright "what if someone puts it on GNUtella" etc ...
[19:52:54] <robin_sz> both have their place
[19:53:10] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Technically 10% of what everybody in the US does every day is NOT legal.. It gives the govt a handle with unenforced laws that can be used to ruin your day.
[19:53:10] <A-L-P-H-A> sounds like a fun topic
[19:53:12] <robin_sz> people who rip off GPL software are thieves
[19:53:18] <pfred1> robin_sz I've worked for a living my whole life I don't believe in residual payments for work I want more money i go dig another ditch that's just how i am
[19:53:23] <robin_sz> people who rip off commercial sw are theives
[19:53:28] <robin_sz> theres no difference
[19:53:38] <pfred1> robin_sz people want to code for a living fine get paid by the hour to code
[19:54:02] <pfred1> but don't expect to write one piece of software and land on easy street
[19:54:18] <robin_sz> why not?
[19:54:23] <robin_sz> one piece of sw
[19:54:23] <pfred1> robin_sz you can't be a thief unless you deprive someone else of something
[19:54:26] <robin_sz> one book
[19:54:32] <robin_sz> one painting
[19:54:34] <pfred1> if i copy something i am not depriving anyone of ANYTHING!
[19:54:45] <pfred1> they still got their copy
[19:55:09] <robin_sz> well ... so what is your problem with people such a DLINK using GPL code intheir routers and keeping the mods secret then?
[19:55:16] <Phydbleep> I don't even have a problem with the commecial copyrights, My problem is with the extension after extension after extension to the length of them.. The original was 17 years and worked fine for over 150.
[19:55:54] <pfred1> robin_sz they're depriving everyone of code
[19:56:01] <robin_sz> bollcks ..
[19:56:05] <robin_sz> you still got your copy
[19:56:06] <pfred1> and I'm suprised no one has taken them to court over it
[19:56:14] <Phydbleep> Now it's 80 years and they're pushing for 200..
[19:56:20] <robin_sz> see ,... thats double standards
[19:56:28] <pfred1> no it is not
[19:56:41] <pfred1> I copy somehting I deprive no one of anything
[19:56:49] <pfred1> they hold something back they deprive everyone of that something
[19:56:56] <robin_sz> you deprive its owner of a license fee
[19:57:10] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep runs off to patent 'fire' in all forms.
[19:57:15] <pfred1> robin_sz no I don't they never had that
[19:57:26] <pfred1> robin_sz you can't deprive someone of something they never had
[19:57:29] <pfred1> that's illogical!
[19:57:32] <robin_sz> ok
[19:57:42] <robin_sz> so I can steal your pay check before you get it then ..
[19:57:50] <robin_sz> you wont object?
[19:58:01] <pfred1> robin_sz I won't because I'll get another one
[19:58:14] <robin_sz> your wage packet then
[19:58:18] <pfred1> and whoever you took it from will hang you by your balls
[19:58:19] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Uncle Sam does that already.. You object, They point guns..
[19:58:39] <robin_sz> well, yo cant have it both ways ...
[19:58:52] <robin_sz> either software copyright theft is right or wrong
[19:58:53] <pfred1> robin_sz no the paycheck is mine i worked for it
[19:59:07] <robin_sz> the licence fee is Arts, he wprked for it
[19:59:19] <pfred1> he can keep the license
[19:59:38] <pfred1> he can keep his code
[20:00:06] <pfred1> but whatever he puts out into the ether for whatever reason well it's tough nuts after what what anyone else decides to do
[20:00:15] <robin_sz> ok simple question: should software be protected by copyright?
[20:00:35] <pfred1> you want to protect your software do NOT distribute it at ALL!
[20:00:39] <robin_sz> ok simple question: should software be protected by copyright?
[20:00:43] <pfred1> keep it under lock and key
[20:00:45] <Phydbleep> That's why 99.9% of the software/hardware I design/write/use is gpl..
[20:01:26] <pfred1> if I have a nice car I'm not going to just park it on the side of the road with the doors open and the keys i nthe ignition counting on the honesty of my fellow man for it's safety
[20:01:46] <robin_sz> pfred1: exactly
[20:01:48] <pfred1> then again if someone comes by and takes a picture of it I'm not going to freak out about it
[20:01:51] <robin_sz> I agree with you 100%
[20:02:02] <pfred1> they copied my car!
[20:02:06] <pfred1> they copied it!
[20:02:10] <pfred1> the bastards!
[20:02:15] <Phydbleep> Software shoud have a ~15 year copyright, Art/music/film ~20..
[20:02:31] <robin_sz> so when someone copies EMC2 modifies it and uses it in a closed-source commercial product .. you'll be happy then
[20:02:32] <pfred1> Phydbleep no people should sweat blood if they want to earn a wage!
[20:02:49] <robin_sz> after all ...
[20:03:03] <Phydbleep> And some cheap s.o.b. just lit a cigarette from my patented 'fire'! Where's my license fee?
[20:03:11] <pfred1> robin_sz now you're getting into someone depriving someone else of something
[20:03:20] <pfred1> that's where i begin to have a problem
[20:03:22] <robin_sz> if you put out into the ether for whatever reason well it's tough nuts after what what anyone else decides to do
[20:03:39] <robin_sz> if EMC2 wants to be protected from copying or whatever
[20:03:47] <robin_sz> they should keep it under lock and key
[20:03:53] <robin_sz> (all your words)
[20:03:54] <pfred1> they should
[20:04:18] <pfred1> I'm sure it's getting ripped off plenty if it's of any value
[20:04:36] <robin_sz> well, thievery is thievery in my book
[20:04:39] <pfred1> and yeah i guess it's tough nuts
[20:04:41] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: That's why so many of the govt purchased/CAD software pkgs use a dongle on the lpt port.
[20:04:50] <pfred1> mine too just our definitions of it happen to be different
[20:05:08] <pfred1> you seem to think people can have things stolen from them that they never possessed
[20:05:12] <robin_sz> presumably because you are trying to find moral justification for your thievery
[20:05:21] <pfred1> my thievery?
[20:05:44] <robin_sz> yor support of thievery ...
[20:06:07] <pfred1> robin_sz are you saying I am a thief?
[20:06:30] <robin_sz> im saying you have voiced opinion supporting the actions of thieves
[20:06:37] <pfred1> how?
[20:06:51] <robin_sz> but whatever he puts out into the ether for whatever reason well it's tough nuts after what what anyone else decides to do
[20:06:56] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Hypothetical case.. you go to the library and read a tech manual..You learned something while depriving no-one of no-thing.. Do you now want to have to pay a license fee to the author every time you use that learning?
[20:06:56] <robin_sz> like that
[20:07:39] <pfred1> Phydbleep when Bill Gates vopyrights 1 and 0 we'll see how he feels
[20:07:41] <robin_sz> Phydbleep: knowledge gained is not theft. the book was purchased with the expectation of people reading it and gaining knowledge
[20:08:19] <robin_sz> pfred1: the same copyrights that protect GPL authors, protect commercial authors.
[20:08:39] <pfred1> robin_sz do they?
[20:08:43] <robin_sz> yes
[20:08:51] <robin_sz> thats how the GPL works
[20:08:52] <pfred1> how about Dlink?
[20:09:05] <pfred1> you said they have their own extensions
[20:09:13] <pfred1> and don't distribute the source
[20:09:21] <robin_sz> (hypothetical, it might have been linksys)
[20:09:22] <robin_sz> yes
[20:09:35] <robin_sz> therfore, they are thieves
[20:09:37] <pfred1> yeah well the nI guess copyright isn't helping the GPL out much
[20:09:59] <pfred1> it's helping out the router company though
[20:10:25] <anonimasu_> anonimasu_ is now known as anonimasu
[20:10:27] <anonimasu> re
[20:10:52] <robin_sz> but by breaking with their GPL licence conditions (you may use this if your share mods) they lose their license rights, so are in breach of copyright
[20:11:07] <robin_sz> therfore, they are thieves
[20:11:23] <pfred1> yes they are actually depriving people of something
[20:12:00] <pfred1> if i copy something I deprive no one of anything wel lI deprive myself of the time and resources it took to copy whatever
[20:12:06] <pfred1> but that is my own choosing
[20:12:14] <robin_sz> sounds like theft to me
[20:12:18] <pfred1> how?
[20:12:24] <pfred1> I am stealing from myself?
[20:12:28] <robin_sz> breach of copyright
[20:12:31] <pfred1> I'm the only one out anything
[20:12:41] <pfred1> I never agreed to this copyright
[20:12:46] <pfred1> I never signed anything
[20:12:47] <robin_sz> then you cant use it
[20:12:53] <robin_sz> you dont have to sign
[20:12:53] <pfred1> who says?
[20:12:59] <pfred1> I don't?
[20:13:03] <robin_sz> no
[20:13:05] <pfred1> now you're telling me how to live?
[20:13:10] <pfred1> who the hel lare you?
[20:13:12] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone ever made their own indexable carbide turning tools?
[20:13:14] <A-L-P-H-A> any tips?
[20:13:37] <pfred1> carbide tips?
[20:13:50] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, the carbide inserts.
[20:13:54] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone made their own holders?
[20:14:05] <robin_sz> well, you seem to be a confused individual. you can see how people stelaing GPL code for commercial use is worng, but seem to defend people stealing commercial code .. its all the same thing .. breach of copyright
[20:14:23] <pfred1> robin_sz I do not defend theft
[20:14:31] <robin_sz> you have .. repeatedly
[20:14:34] <pfred1> but I do not see someone copying something as theft
[20:14:41] <pfred1> that's your definition of it
[20:14:44] <pfred1> not mine
[20:14:46] <robin_sz> OK, so ... say I write a software package ...
[20:14:50] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1, that's IP theift.
[20:14:54] <anonimasu> theft of intelectual property..
[20:15:02] <pfred1> A-L-P-H-A you can keep your IP
[20:15:06] <robin_sz> my boss employs me to write this stuff
[20:15:25] <pfred1> your boss should get into s new line of work
[20:15:28] <robin_sz> but our competitors just copy it and use it anyway
[20:15:29] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz, since you are hired to do it, it is the property of the company, not you.
[20:15:39] <pfred1> I got a shovel for him right over here and whoever wants to copy them they can feel free
[20:15:47] <pfred1> copy the motions!
[20:15:57] <robin_sz> so .. the boss says " why bother" and sacks me.
[20:16:09] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz... stop being goaded.
[20:16:39] <A-L-P-H-A> pfred1's good at goading people... why do you get baited?
[20:16:42] <pfred1> look man yo uwant to be safe do somethign that's not easily copied don't try to make a mint on something that is that's just foolishness
[20:16:55] <pfred1> and if yo uwant everyone else to be foolish for your benefit that's compounded foolishness!
[20:17:00] <anonimasu> pfred1: what kind of english is that?
[20:17:10] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, american.
[20:17:11] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[20:17:14] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:17:15] <A-L-P-H-A> buahahhaha. :)
[20:17:28] <pfred1> anonimasu yeah and if you don't like it you can get off our Internet!
[20:17:45] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep says "Don't look at me, I just live here."
[20:18:03] <pfred1> the US did invent the Internet
[20:18:08] <robin_sz> well, still sounds like thievery to me. theft of GPL code, theft of commercial code .. its still theft.
[20:18:26] <anonimasu> * anonimasu nods
[20:18:48] <robin_sz> you always have to "pay" ...
[20:18:52] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is of the opinion that "Corporate personhood" was one of the worst fscks of all time.
[20:18:57] <pfred1> robin_sz it's all definition it's all so 1984 to me
[20:19:08] <robin_sz> with GPL code you pay with your own contributions back to the community
[20:19:16] <robin_sz> with commercial code you pay $$$
[20:19:16] <anonimasu> I hate when competitors come and videotape while you run your prototype machines.
[20:19:34] <anonimasu> fsckers.
[20:19:43] <robin_sz> quite
[20:19:43] <Phydbleep> "No Cameras Please" works as a sign. :)
[20:20:02] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: you cant keep people from photographing stuff unless your in a private property..
[20:20:11] <pfred1> if you're in public you're pretty much agreeing to being videotaped
[20:20:22] <robin_sz> anonimasu: of course pfred1 will tell you that "its not theft, you didnt lose anyting"
[20:20:48] <robin_sz> even when they copy your machine
[20:20:50] <anonimasu> pfred1: 50km out in the forest.
[20:20:51] <pfred1> robin_sz what you fail to recognize is that we all have free will
[20:21:05] <pfred1> it's your choice to go out in public with whatever
[20:21:09] <robin_sz> and music sharing?
[20:21:12] <pfred1> for good or bad
[20:21:12] <Phydbleep> You could also bury some fine print on page 200 of the nda saying that if they bring a camera it's $1,000,000 a minute to film and you have all rights to the tape. :)
[20:21:33] <pfred1> Phydbleep they'd have to agree to it
[20:21:36] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: since it's in public it dosent work that way..
[20:21:47] <pfred1> and even then it may not be legally binding
[20:21:50] <pfred1> because it is unreasonable
[20:22:46] <robin_sz> so, when some chinese company starts selling say copies of PC's using cloned Intel chips at 1/10th the price of US made product? thats OK?
[20:22:51] <Phydbleep> Not at all.. They may argue the amount, but for a private showing of the tech it's not unheard of.
[20:22:54] <pfred1> Phydbleep could just as easily demonstrate his machines shrouded in opaque materials
[20:23:18] <pfred1> it's his choice to hang it all out there
[20:23:34] <Phydbleep> ROFL @ robin_sz
[20:23:42] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is laughing
[20:23:53] <anonimasu> this discussion is stupid.
[20:24:00] <robin_sz> yep.
[20:24:14] <pfred1> robin_sz I think the chinese government is all about destroying the capitalist pigs
[20:24:14] <anonimasu> theft is theft.. no matter how you put it..
[20:24:17] <robin_sz> IP theft is still theft .. it works both ways
[20:24:20] <robin_sz> * robin_sz nods
[20:24:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[20:24:26] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Didn't you here.. IBM's 486 factory is moving to China even though they can't buy 486 chips in China due to export regs...
[20:24:34] <robin_sz> heh
[20:24:43] <Phydbleep> s/you here/you hear
[20:25:09] <pfred1> hear ye hear ye
[20:25:30] <pfred1> robin_sz the simple fact is that the world has changed and law has not kept pace with reality
[20:25:45] <pfred1> you want to live in the past be my guest
[20:26:02] <pfred1> but don't hold me there!
[20:26:12] <Phydbleep> Mailing a 486-DX2/80 to mainland China is a Federal offence and IBM is mailing them the whole frikken factory. :)
[20:26:31] <pfred1> I didn't even think they made 486s anymore
[20:26:40] <pfred1> I know NASA has a hell of a time trying to buy them
[20:26:47] <pfred1> they get their on ebay now
[20:27:24] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a tray full of various 486 chips.. They can have the lot for $10. :)
[20:27:37] <pfred1> I bet they'd be interested
[20:27:49] <pfred1> last i heard 486 was the highest CPU rated for flight
[20:28:08] <pfred1> it takes them a long time to certify hardware
[20:28:36] <pfred1> and alter chips may just not be robust enough
[20:28:37] <Phydbleep> Last i heard they were still using hand-braided wire for program rom.
[20:28:51] <pfred1> later chips even
[20:29:00] <pfred1> space is a harsh environment
[20:29:09] <pfred1> ask the Japenese
[20:29:26] <pfred1> their probe burnt up no where near it's destination :)
[20:30:38] <pfred1> the US rules! http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html
[20:31:02] <Phydbleep> Space does less damage to the probes than the red-tape it takes to get them there.
[20:31:22] <pfred1> man them two rovers are the baddest assed CNC machines ever built!
[20:31:51] <Phydbleep> Yeah, but lets see them open a beer can.. :)
[20:31:56] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[20:32:02] <pfred1> they could
[20:32:11] <pfred1> whip out the rock abrasion tool
[20:32:40] <Phydbleep> Properly open a beer can..
[20:33:01] <robin_sz> pfred1: as a matter of interest, what do you do for a living?
[20:33:12] <pfred1> hmm i guess you're not big for shotgunning cans
[20:33:19] <pfred1> robin_sz I'm a union laborer
[20:33:32] <pfred1> robin_sz and i don't get residuals on holes i dug 20 years ago
[20:33:52] <pfred1> robin_sz but no one seems willing to copy me
[20:34:07] <pfred1> because I'm a digging dog!
[20:34:16] <robin_sz> so have you ever created a work someone would want to copy?
[20:34:21] <Phydbleep> Noisy too, :)
[20:34:56] <pfred1> robin_sz I don't know
[20:35:00] <Phydbleep> robin_sz: Oh, Nice hole, Mind if I dig one just like it over here?
[20:35:07] <pfred1> be my guest!
[20:35:18] <pfred1> feel free
[20:35:50] <pfred1> robin_sz come to think of it yes when the cut comes sometimes i guess guys do wish they'd been more like me
[20:35:51] <Phydbleep> Fell it is about all..
[20:35:56] <Phydbleep> Feel
[20:36:20] <pfred1> robin_sz if they get laid off and I'm still on the job
[20:36:22] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep now has to go get an excavation permit.
[20:36:31] <cradek> * cradek is disappointed to not find a funny comic or something searching for "don't feed the troll" on google
[20:36:52] <robin_sz> bloody hell!
[20:36:58] <robin_sz> it is a troll too!
[20:37:06] <robin_sz> it even lives in a hole in the ground!
[20:37:16] <Phydbleep> ROFL!
[20:37:19] <anonimasu> lol
[20:37:32] <pfred1> yeah well if it weren't for people like me you'd be typing in a field right now I guess
[20:37:43] <Phydbleep> ROFLMAO!
[20:38:10] <Phydbleep> 2 points for pfred1 ..
[20:38:26] <robin_sz> pfred1: no I wouldnt because I live in a house
[20:38:33] <pfred1> robin_sz you built it?
[20:38:36] <robin_sz> yes
[20:38:50] <pfred1> robin_sz all by yourself?
[20:38:52] <robin_sz> yes
[20:38:58] <robin_sz> well, my wife helped
[20:39:01] <pfred1> robin_sz I'd like to see that!
[20:39:08] <Phydbleep> Cool, You're doing better than 99% of the population.
[20:39:20] <pfred1> yeah most can't seem to manage to change a lightbulb
[20:39:30] <robin_sz> dug the foundations, layed the bricks, did the carpentry, the roof, the concrete for the floors
[20:39:47] <Phydbleep> pfred1: Most of them are praying fot the new led units. :)
[20:39:51] <robin_sz> moved 22 tonnes of infill for the floor bases by hand
[20:40:19] <pfred1> the thought of using a wheelbarrow didn't cross your mind at any point?
[20:40:24] <robin_sz> the only help we had was a guy to screed the floors and a roof tiler
[20:40:41] <pfred1> you floated it though? and troweled it?
[20:40:47] <pfred1> screeign is easy
[20:41:16] <robin_sz> we paid two guys to float it and lay it .. they did it better than we would
[20:41:31] <pfred1> I bet it's well there's more to it than it looks
[20:41:40] <Phydbleep> Always best to have lots of hands for a pad party.
[20:41:52] <pfred1> or a power trowel
[20:42:07] <robin_sz> so ... you were saying how I;d be living in a field?
[20:42:25] <Phydbleep> Lot's of hands.. You cant drink beer and b.s. with a power trowel. :)
[20:42:29] <pfred1> robin_sz OK you'd be on the dirt
[20:42:52] <pfred1> robin_sz to date my record for pouring concrete is 540 yards in one day
[20:43:13] <pfred1> tho i usually only do about 140 or so
[20:43:14] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs and goes away
[20:43:24] <robin_sz> yeah .. this has run its course
[20:43:35] <robin_sz> night ...
[20:43:36] <pfred1> robin_sz and as far as backfilling by hand goes I'm good for 9 tandems a day
[20:43:44] <pfred1> been there done that
[20:43:58] <pfred1> I could do 22 tons before morning break!
[20:44:00] <pfred1> I have
[20:46:19] <pfred1> when robin_sz I have to ask him what makes his house so unique that he didn't steal IP in order to build it
[20:48:35] <anonimasu> * anonimasu isghs
[20:48:50] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep remembers why he doesn't drink beer or hang out with construction workers..
[20:49:00] <Phydbleep> Hehehe.. :)
[20:49:04] <anonimasu> ^_^
[20:49:42] <Phydbleep> I knew there was a good reason..
[20:50:05] <anonimasu> anonimasu has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General linux discussions and support the rest of the week., PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL
[20:50:05] <ChanServ> ChanServ has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Enhanced Machine Control forum - Support and development of a linux based CNC control. | Home page www.linuxcnc.org | Regular Developer's meetings every Sunday between 14:00 & 18:00 GMT | General linux discussions and support the rest of the week.
[20:50:09] <anonimasu> :/
[20:51:06] <Phydbleep> I avoid most of the machine shops here in Albuquerque because I can't stand dealing with drunks and meth-heads.
[20:51:26] <anonimasu> hm, scary
[20:52:55] <anonimasu> dope-heads are scary..
[20:53:00] <Phydbleep> Really.. Wait till you're trying to get parts for a machine in a shop and you can't even get a partial serial # off the machine in question because the owner had an 8-ball for breakfast an is schitzing out..
[20:53:22] <anonimasu> lol
[20:53:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has no idea what a 8-ball is..
[20:53:57] <anonimasu> just the back ball that gives stupid replies to stupid questions ;)
[20:54:03] <anonimasu> s/back/black
[20:54:53] <Phydbleep> He wanted to know if I could fix it, I said "Sure, but I won't..You're a prick and you can pay to fly someone in from the UK to service it, Goodbye."
[20:55:39] <Phydbleep> 8-ball is a unit of sale.. 1/8 ounce/gram/something.
[20:55:51] <anonimasu> ah
[20:56:04] <Phydbleep> I don't play in powders so I don't really know.
[20:56:12] <anonimasu> * anonimasu neitehr
[20:56:24] <anonimasu> unlike 70% of the people my age over here..
[20:56:32] <dmes> am i interrupting something??
[20:56:44] <anonimasu> dmes: not really
[20:57:07] <dmes> oh sounded like a cheec and chong deal..
[20:57:22] <anonimasu> <Phydbleep> I avoid most of the machine shops here in Albuquerque because I can't stand dealing with drunks and meth-heads.
[20:58:11] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a friend who play with expensive white powders.. China white.. Potters are addicted to good fine clays.. :)
[20:58:47] <anonimasu> * anonimasu yawns
[20:58:58] <dmes> opiats are hard on the physique
[20:59:46] <Phydbleep> Not drugs, Clay/porcelien(sp).. It's really funny to see after he's been throwing.. He looks like he was painting a coke lab. :)
[21:00:04] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:01:16] <dmes> we have like 65 cnc's at this new place i stated at last week
[21:01:24] <Phydbleep> Clay everywhere.. hair/eyebrows/mustace/up the nose/in his socks..Big grin and a whole shelf full of Japanese tea or Saki sets.
[21:02:25] <Phydbleep> dmes: 205.189 IP? Sprintlink/ATT?
[21:02:59] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was looking for geo-data.
[21:03:05] <dmes> pardon??
[21:03:37] <Phydbleep> What part of the world are you on?
[21:03:54] <dmes> canada... toronto area
[21:04:15] <dmes> top left...
[21:04:16] <Phydbleep> Ahh.. A-L-P-H-A is in Ca as well.
[21:04:36] <dmes> we are near each other... 20 km..
[21:05:25] <Phydbleep> emc'ing for fun? or profit?
[21:06:11] <dmes> 1st for fun... then possibly if we can develop the right stuff for profit.
[21:09:35] <Phydbleep> Controls? full machines?
[21:10:06] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep is working on an absolute positioning encoder/driver set.
[21:11:25] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep pokes dmes with a vernier caliper..
[21:12:36] <les> We try to have fun and make a profit too
[21:13:30] <Phydbleep> I concentrate on having fun, profits are for beancounters to worry about..
[21:13:37] <les> I just won't do something 8 or more hours each day unless there is at least some fun in it
[21:14:46] <les> If I am not making money I don't need beancounters to tell me about it...heh...it's fairly obvious
[21:15:01] <Phydbleep> It has to be fun for me before I'll waste an hour on it.. That could be why I ignored re-newing my drivers license a few years ago. :)
[21:15:20] <les> ha
[21:16:12] <les> get caught?
[21:16:25] <Phydbleep> They finally got it down to a 20 minute wait and i went and renewed a couple of years ago..
[21:16:53] <Phydbleep> Caught for what? I didn't bother with a car either. :)
[21:17:40] <les> I didn't take care of emission inpection for one of my vehicles one year.
[21:17:55] <les> Got stopped for speeding or something...
[21:18:04] <les> it came up on the computer...
[21:18:13] <les> and I got arrested!!!
[21:18:18] <Phydbleep> <50cc scooters, no license/registration/insurance needed in this state.
[21:19:42] <les> oh well.
[21:20:17] <les> Was organizing the shop and noticed how many broken/ missing drill bits I had
[21:20:26] <Phydbleep> Did you know that a 49cc scooter motor with the input 1/2 of a Nissan turbo for a supercharger will hit 90mph?
[21:21:09] <les> so I ordered #0-60, A-z,, 1/64-1/2 extra set.
[21:21:09] <anonimasu> hm, how does the internals cope with it?
[21:21:31] <anonimasu> * anonimasu has bee toying with that idea
[21:21:38] <anonimasu> when I was younger.
[21:22:12] <Phydbleep> It moves enough air through it to not fry for 6-8 months if you start with a newer motor.
[21:22:29] <anonimasu> hm, that's far from good enough :)
[21:22:36] <Phydbleep> Swapp all the bearings to needle races.
[21:22:42] <les> so <50cc and no license and stuff no matter what the manifold pressure is huh?
[21:22:52] <anonimasu> with some intercooling and water injection..
[21:22:58] <anonimasu> and some methanol mix..
[21:23:13] <anonimasu> err ethanol
[21:23:37] <anonimasu> over here they have 1hp..
[21:23:38] <anonimasu> max
[21:23:50] <Phydbleep> I could run 49cc's of combustion chamber and a truck turbo and still be legal... They dont measure boost just displacement.
[21:24:08] <les> heh
[21:24:12] <anonimasu> hm, with a low compression ratio on top of that..
[21:24:26] <Phydbleep> Although legally I am supposed to stay under 30mph.
[21:24:26] <anonimasu> I bet you could push ~20hp out of one..
[21:24:27] <anonimasu> easily
[21:24:29] <anonimasu> ;)
[21:24:45] <anonimasu> if I had access to a cnc I would have tried it..
[21:24:51] <les> yeah with turbo diesel and oxygenated fuel
[21:25:02] <anonimasu> disel?
[21:25:13] <les> yeah
[21:25:17] <anonimasu> hm, alcohol and gasoline mix..
[21:25:23] <les> high compression ratio...
[21:25:24] <Phydbleep> I tied knots in a cop one day.. I was running with traffic and got pulled over for speeding.
[21:25:27] <les> high efficiency
[21:25:35] <anonimasu> you need less compression for the engine to live under the boost
[21:25:44] <anonimasu> gasoline knocks under high pressure, while alcohol mis-fires saving the internals ;)
[21:25:55] <anonimasu> although you get less power, but you can compensate that with more boost..
[21:25:56] <les> yes it might
[21:26:00] <Phydbleep> i pointed out that i was also obstructing traffic and got ticketed for that too..
[21:26:10] <les> I was just thinking of otto cycle efficiency
[21:26:12] <anonimasu> that's why all turbocharges engines have low compression ratios.. :)
[21:26:19] <anonimasu> ah
[21:26:21] <Phydbleep> Showed up in court and the judge had a laughing fit.
[21:26:23] <les> I se
[21:26:26] <les> see
[21:26:34] <anonimasu> as soon as you get boost your effiency goes way up..
[21:26:50] <les> yes true
[21:27:05] <anonimasu> for a NA engine that'd be true
[21:27:22] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: use a gear/belt drive and run constant boost with a wastegate.
[21:27:52] <anonimasu> Phydbleep: takes too many hp to spin around
[21:27:53] <anonimasu> :)
[21:28:05] <anonimasu> exhaust pressure is free, as in free beer
[21:28:23] <anonimasu> err exhaust gas..
[21:29:04] <Phydbleep> So's hot air, but try getting a collection system fitted on a politician. :)
[21:29:19] <anonimasu> haha
[21:29:34] <gezr> something is wrong with this box im currently on, rebooting, to return when suitable
[21:29:45] <Phydbleep> anonimasu: I shaved the flywheel and put the mass back as the impeller.
[21:29:46] <les> yes well boost AND high compression ratio would be most efficient...but I understand it might be physically unrealisable
[21:29:59] <anonimasu> les: yeah ofcourse
[21:30:40] <anonimasu> les: that's how they build race engines nowdays since the materials are getting better
[21:30:51] <anonimasu> it dosent really matter if the engine has to last for 20 laps..
[21:31:01] <les> heh
[21:31:07] <Phydbleep> I figure it was ~ 14 hp and i was losing 1/2 of that to spin the impeller.
[21:31:30] <anonimasu> hm,
[21:31:53] <anonimasu> somone dyno:ed s 50cc with 9hp over here..
[21:31:56] <anonimasu> was in the newspaper..
[21:32:02] <anonimasu> or maybe 11
[21:32:08] <anonimasu> just ported..
[21:32:13] <les> what rpm?
[21:32:16] <anonimasu> no idea..
[21:32:17] <Phydbleep> It did not want to idle for more than 2-3 minutes though due to lack of airflow.
[21:32:34] <anonimasu> I'd think about 9000
[21:33:02] <anonimasu> cant remeber what it is..
[21:33:11] <anonimasu> but it was a newspaper article about some old man that managed to do it
[21:33:16] <les> heh... the makings of a router spindle
[21:33:22] <Phydbleep> Depend if it was a 2 or 4 stroke.. 7-9k for a 4 13-15k for a 2
[21:33:38] <anonimasu> 2stroke
[21:33:44] <Phydbleep> 10k +
[21:35:03] <Phydbleep> les: is 20k rpm fast enough for a spindle drive for you?
[21:35:16] <les> yeah
[21:35:19] <les> 24 is better
[21:35:53] <Phydbleep> OK.. did you get the parts estimate?
[21:36:13] <les> I was trying to find a good deal on a VFD today
[21:36:33] <les> looks like $500+
[21:37:23] <Phydbleep> 5 channels 100V 10A 4096ppr $100 in parts for a single unit, far less for production.
[21:37:36] <les> oh yeah
[21:37:43] <les> that sounds pretty good
[21:38:05] <les> your design?
[21:38:09] <Phydbleep> And I learned how to hack postscript last night for bigger wheels.
[21:38:18] <anonimasu> hehe
[21:38:18] <anonimasu> nice
[21:39:33] <Phydbleep> I need to write the Grey code lookup table for the 4.75" 16bit version now though. :\
[21:39:43] <anonimasu> les: that sounds pretty right
[21:40:04] <les> Well we are still mulling over the prospect of selling cnc routers
[21:40:22] <les> there are so many out there though
[21:41:24] <Phydbleep> les: What would you say to 100k rpm and 100k ppr?
[21:41:37] <les> gosh
[21:41:55] <Phydbleep> The encoder is 3x3x1 though.
[21:41:56] <les> I see steve s. bought a 120krpm spindle today
[21:42:00] <les> is he on?
[21:42:09] <les> hhm nope
[21:42:26] <Phydbleep> 3"x3"x1" 75mmX75mmX25mm
[21:43:29] <les> 1.5 radius at 100krpm is some serious centripedal accel
[21:43:48] <Phydbleep> Datapath is RF though.. 100mHz..
[21:44:17] <les> you mean MHz
[21:44:33] <Phydbleep> I mean "bloody fast" :)
[21:44:40] <les> heh
[21:45:54] <les> well , pretty soon we will be starting production back up for turkey calls with emc
[21:46:07] <les> I am taking the time to upgrade some stuff
[21:46:19] <les> bigger spindle and a painting robot
[21:46:38] <Phydbleep> 1.2" radius, 0.05" clearance, 0.25" scatter shield.
[21:46:54] <les> I want it more automated
[21:47:11] <Phydbleep> Can you program it for polka dots?
[21:47:15] <les> push a button and the quarters come down the chute
[21:47:38] <les> polka dots?
[21:47:40] <les> sure.
[21:48:27] <les> lets see how much will I get with the inprovements?...
[21:49:35] <les> 13 cents/second.
[21:49:57] <les> let's call it a dime
[21:50:03] <les> brb phone
[22:03:09] <les> aw better go...have a big deal funeral here tommorow
[22:03:18] <les> step great grandma
[22:05:17] <A-L-P-H-A> hey Dmess... I went to Olympia again today... I need to make a bigger purchase from them. heh. I'm always going in there for like ~$20 here and there... largest bill I think I've had in there was only $200.
[22:06:30] <A-L-P-H-A> les, I made the hole.
[22:11:12] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: The whole hole?
[22:16:53] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: Was it you that wanted linear bearings?
[22:17:38] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, this is the high speed spindle, that I'm making. It'll only be accepting 1/8" dia cutting tools.
[22:17:50] <A-L-P-H-A> so I've made the hold, and reamed it...
[22:17:59] <A-L-P-H-A> hold=hole
[22:18:12] <A-L-P-H-A> but I've got shitty tools to make the bearing seats
[22:19:32] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep, and no. I don't it was me that wanted linear bearings. I believe it was jymmm.
[22:25:51] <Phydbleep> I'll make mine on the lathe.. I found a shaft/bearings/1/4" collet in a dead Chinese die grinder. :)
[22:26:48] <Phydbleep> 6000 rpm pmdc motor and a 5:1 gearup for the drive. :)
[22:28:38] <Phydbleep> I'll replace the Chinese bearings with new 50k rpm units of course.
[22:34:23] <Phydbleep> It's even a Canadian made 6000 rpm pmdc motor. :)
[22:43:25] <A-L-P-H-A> electric die grinder?
[22:44:20] <A-L-P-H-A> Phydbleep
[22:45:21] <les> so you drilled and reamed the hole
[22:47:09] <les> .005 is a lot to take off with a reamer
[22:47:30] <les> often cuts big
[22:48:19] <les> well if the dowel pin DOESN'T fit...the hole is good.
[22:50:01] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: The die grinder was a 10k rpm 110V AC cheap Chinese unit.. Like <$15 new I paid $0.25 for the carcass.
[22:50:48] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was getting the child some water and pointing out that grape-soda requires a "Please". :)
[22:52:10] <Phydbleep> The motor is a 1.5hp pmdc drive unit from a defunct treadmill.. Cracked deck, ripped belt.
[22:54:09] <Phydbleep> 90% of my parts are salvage/scavenge/dumpster-dive the rest is barter of said parts. :)
[22:57:27] <les> I have done some dumpster diving in my day.
[22:58:36] <les> My best scores would be when we would close a division. I'd show up with a truck.
[22:59:19] <les> I have gotten several machine tools that way FREE
[23:00:10] <Phydbleep> Hehehe... Hit the exercise equipment places and maybe take the guys in the service dept a 12 pack. I have done 50% of my shop floor with the 10 mm rubber matting scraps. Big 2'x3' pieces.
[23:00:30] <les> Our last cleanout was B&S horizontal mills.
[23:00:54] <les> I did not take one...but they all went out for $250 scrap value.
[23:01:10] <les> These were perfectly good well maintained machines
[23:01:11] <Phydbleep> les: What's the word on the 20x3 chassis?
[23:01:31] <les> ther cnc?
[23:01:38] <Phydbleep> Yeah.\
[23:01:46] <les> well still doing market research stuff
[23:02:13] <les> I want to be very careful before I spend a bunch of money
[23:02:19] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep needs smaller fingers, a bigger keyboard or typing lessons..
[23:03:22] <Phydbleep> I think I'll go for the smaller fingers.. On a nice redhead. :)
[23:03:42] <Phydbleep> She can take the typing lessons. :)
[23:04:08] <les> I think we can make a superior machine....question is will people have a use for it in this country?
[23:04:39] <Phydbleep> Do drive/encoder retrofit kits as well?
[23:04:59] <Phydbleep> les: You're doing signs?
[23:05:10] <les> I think retrofit market is pretty well saturated
[23:05:35] <les> The sign market would be very important for this machine
[23:06:35] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep was thinking of the faux neon sign market..
[23:07:18] <les> yeah we do stuff with cnc carved light piping in acrylic
[23:08:13] <Phydbleep> Use flourescent acrylic and UV led edge lighting.
[23:08:31] <les> yeah that works
[23:09:05] <les> visible led and just rough areas that glow works too
[23:09:27] <Phydbleep> Yeah, Solid mask on the front and route through it with a 1/2 round bit.
[23:09:31] <les> TIR unless the surface finish is rough
[23:10:32] <les> We have toyed with a solar powered faux neon house sign
[23:10:39] <les> easy.
[23:10:49] <les> would anyone buy it?
[23:11:01] <Phydbleep> Kerap!.. Am I going to have to write a 16 bit binary reflected Grey code generator?
[23:11:50] <Phydbleep> les: House #'s / address? Yeah, Oh yeah.. The more obnoxious the color the better..
[23:11:59] <les> heh
[23:12:42] <Phydbleep> Yuppies for status, gang bangers for that "bling" look, little old ladies so 911 can find them..
[23:12:58] <les> 911 signs yes.
[23:13:08] <Phydbleep> Students for pizza delivery, etc, etc. :)
[23:13:12] <les> Well we can make em real quick
[23:13:16] <les> no problem
[23:14:15] <les> If someone could figure out how to sell the things I would want to talk to them
[23:14:17] <Phydbleep> Make a 5 digit frame and sell them 5 #'s or #'s and 2 blankouts.
[23:15:09] <Phydbleep> I would start with flyers on campus and in the neighborhood grocery stores.
[23:15:33] <les> students have money?
[23:15:38] <Phydbleep> The stores that are always full of the elderly. :)
[23:17:26] <Phydbleep> Students will spend $40 on pizza and $100 on weed.. I think they'd spend $20-$30 to make sure either delivery boy can find them. :)
[23:17:52] <les> hmm
[23:18:01] <les> trying to remember back
[23:18:38] <les> what did I spend money on?
[23:19:04] <Phydbleep> If somebody could get a license to deliver pizza AND beer in this town they'd get rich quick.
[23:19:04] <les> not girls...plenty of those around and they were pretty much free
[23:19:16] <les> YEAH
[23:19:35] <les> great idea
[23:19:47] <les> so is there a law against it?
[23:19:55] <les> why not?
[23:20:41] <Phydbleep> Here? Yeah, No delivery other than to package stores and bars..
[23:21:33] <les> I did not know that
[23:21:51] <Phydbleep> Have to be over 21 to sell it, distribution to a minor is loss of license and $10K fine.
[23:22:54] <les> silly law...delivery would keep a lot of DUI off the street going to the store to get some more
[23:23:54] <Phydbleep> Well yes, But then the city/state/feds couldn't whine about the dui problem and pass more restrictive laws..
[23:24:03] <les> yeah
[23:24:17] <Phydbleep> Plus they'd lose big $ on the lack of arrests.
[23:25:04] <les> with .08 you just can't go to bars hardly anymore
[23:25:17] <les> couple beers and you are over
[23:25:49] <Phydbleep> Sure you can.. Take a cab because there is no bus service in this town after 21:00..
[23:25:58] <les> heh
[23:26:13] <Phydbleep> Or before 06:00
[23:26:48] <les> One of my employees got caught a little while ago leaving a hillbilly bar.
[23:27:03] <les> He was drinkin beer and chasing women
[23:27:11] <Phydbleep> Don't get caught between the cab and the bar with >0.08 though, That's "Public Drunkeness"
[23:27:21] <les> here is the funny thing:
[23:27:28] <les> He is 76 years old
[23:27:57] <les> hi john
[23:28:19] <Phydbleep> Great Grandad was still raising hell @ 96? 97..
[23:28:27] <les> heh
[23:29:15] <jmkasunich> hi les
[23:29:35] <les> I have many VFD questions for you JMK
[23:29:45] <les> well a couple
[23:30:38] <jmkasunich> shoot
[23:30:45] <les> I must get a single phase 240v input VFD 7.5-10 hp
[23:31:02] <les> best deal I could find was about $600
[23:31:28] <les> Is that the best I can do?
[23:31:43] <jmkasunich> no idea
[23:32:11] <les> I am upping the hp of everything
[23:32:12] <Phydbleep> les: Dunno what to tell you.. I'm stuck at small scale due to the lack of a R&D budget...
[23:32:36] <jmkasunich> I can answer general technical questions, but I know nothing about the economics of small drives, even those made by my employer. and I know even less about our competitors.
[23:32:59] <jmkasunich> I couldn't tell you list price on one of our drives to save my life
[23:33:01] <les> I am in that mode...where 2x the kW=half the time
[23:33:17] <les> electricity is cheap...labor is not
[23:33:36] <jmkasunich> you going for high speed eh? how many Hz do you need
[23:34:15] <les> jan feb and march were 7 day work weeks...simply because I did not have enough spindle HP
[23:34:20] <les> 400 Hz
[23:34:39] <les> or so
[23:34:59] <jmkasunich> some drives top out at 250Hz
[23:35:05] <jmkasunich> many top out at 400
[23:35:14] <Phydbleep> les: What about adding another machine?
[23:35:24] <les> I need at least 300..but 400 would be better
[23:35:58] <jmkasunich> or how about another spindle on the existing machine, make two at once
[23:35:59] <les> PHY: Naw I just need hp on existing machines
[23:36:28] <Phydbleep> les: You need 24k rpm at the head?
[23:36:31] <A-L-P-H-A> les, the dowel doesn't fit... I hurt my hand pressing it in. the drill rod goes in though.
[23:36:32] <les> Well thet router has realistically about 2 HP on the spindle
[23:36:46] <A-L-P-H-A> like I got it in like a few mm.
[23:36:51] <les> It could easily handle 20
[23:37:08] <A-L-P-H-A> now... need to machine the bearing seats. :(
[23:37:26] <A-L-P-H-A> Good thing this metal is cheap.
[23:37:35] <les> dowel does not fit= good
[23:37:50] <les> yes 24k
[23:38:00] <Phydbleep> * Phydbleep has a vision of les fitting a Pratt&Whitney turboshaft drive to it..
[23:38:14] <les> I use 10k - 21k now
[23:38:17] <A-L-P-H-A> drill does this... I oil the drill rod... shove it in, and compress the air inside.. 2 seconds later, little bubbles come out around teh drill rod.
[23:38:19] <jmkasunich> les: you getting one of Martin's spindles
[23:38:47] <les> martins spindles are nice...but I need more power
[23:39:04] <A-L-P-H-A> les, from a 0.1200" to 0.1250" is a lot to take off for a reamer?
[23:39:13] <jmkasunich> but you must have something in mind if you're looking for the drive already
[23:39:17] <les> 90% of the tons of cherry for the turkey calls end up chips
[23:39:32] <les> I just need plain old kW
[23:40:01] <les> yeah...a rebuilt Columbo spindle
[23:40:07] <les> 10 hp
[23:40:32] <Phydbleep> All I can think of is a 36V golfcart motor running on 120V.. (600V insulation)
[23:40:40] <les> heh
[23:41:22] <les> I can get a 10 hp 240v colombo rebuilt with ceramic bearings for $1100
[23:41:26] <Phydbleep> ~4HP @ 10K rpm w/ 2:1 gear-up;
[23:41:36] <les> so I need a vfd to go with it
[23:41:52] <jmkasunich> gear noise and brush noise... don't want to be in the same county as that!
[23:42:02] <les> heh
[23:42:37] <Phydbleep> gear noise? Bleah! I'd rather run flat belts. :)
[23:42:53] <les> I guess the spindle and VFD will end up running me about $1700 or so
[23:43:09] <les> wouls like auto tool change
[23:43:18] <jmkasunich> just make sure the drive can do 400Hz
[23:43:19] <les> but that is so expensive
[23:43:49] <A-L-P-H-A> now this is clever... someone make an ascii/html drawing with the words "Viagra Cialis Valium Best Prices" heh
[23:43:53] <jmkasunich> you should match up drive amps to motor amps, don't trust HP or kW ratings
[23:43:59] <Phydbleep> les: That was why i asked about another machine.. Less retool time.
[23:44:12] <les> I will have to derate the vfd for single phase....and a high carrier
[23:44:27] <Phydbleep> A-L-P-H-A: That's banner.
[23:45:39] <A-L-P-H-A> make=made
[23:45:45] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't speak, type, or read.
[23:45:49] <A-L-P-H-A> excuse me.
[23:46:09] <les> jmk: yeah I know that. I may not need the full 10 hp with this job...you stop when the work burns up. But Idon't have to run a 10 hp spindle at capacity.
[23:46:34] <A-L-P-H-A> les, then what fun is that? :) heheheh
[23:46:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I wanna mill through solid titanium, and cut out a cubic feet in a minute.
[23:46:53] <jmkasunich> if you're gonna spend the bucks for a spindle and drive, you should get enough drive that it doesn't become the limiting factor later
[23:47:03] <les> yup
[23:47:22] <jmkasunich> this motor is 240V at top speed?
[23:47:22] <les> not a time to cheap out
[23:47:25] <Phydbleep> les: Hang a few hams in the shop and use Hickory. :)
[23:47:38] <A-L-P-H-A> smoked bacon. yummy.
[23:47:52] <les> I have to use 240...that's all I have
[23:48:07] <jmkasunich> what I want to know is the motor nameplate data
[23:48:18] <jmkasunich> if you ain't gots the volts, you ain't gonna gets the RPMs
[23:48:58] <A-L-P-H-A> les, transformers.
[23:49:04] <Phydbleep> les: How many amps does that thing want?
[23:49:11] <les> well the motors are three phase two pole induction....amps about 20 IIRC
[23:49:14] <jmkasunich> yeah, if needed... that's why I'm asking about the nameplate data
[23:49:30] <jmkasunich> does it have a constant power range?
[23:49:59] <les> not sure with induction motors
[23:50:03] <les> let me check
[23:50:21] <jmkasunich> some induction motors do, some don't... gotta read the nameplate
[23:50:42] <jmkasunich> (technically, all induction motors do, but they aren't neccessarily rated for it)
[23:51:57] <les> http://www.pdscolombo.com/fan_cooled_rs_rv_manual.htm
[23:52:24] <jmkasunich> what model?
[23:52:43] <les> uh...
[23:52:47] <A-L-P-H-A> there's a lot of us looking for highspeed spindles.
[23:52:52] <Phydbleep> So 3 pole, ~ 30A to be safe.. i saw FREDFET's for 500V 25A(?) for <$75 each @ Digi-Key.. Build a switching power supply and then generate your own VF?
[23:53:04] <les> rv110
[23:53:20] <jmkasunich> Phydbleep... lots easier to say than to do
[23:53:24] <les> hex freds
[23:53:43] <Phydbleep> 6 of pfred? NOOOO!
[23:53:50] <les> heh
[23:54:25] <jmkasunich> they have two different speed ranges... I take it you don't know which one you're getting yet
[23:54:45] <les> the high speed range
[23:54:49] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: 90% of the circuit design is done already.. Just need to integrate the bits.
[23:54:55] <jmkasunich> shaft driven fan, that's a bummer
[23:54:58] <les> I have a quote for it.
[23:55:24] <les> I can get water cooled too...much quieter
[23:56:11] <jmkasunich> phydbleep: been doing it professionally for over 10 years now... 90% done means you only have 50% of the work ahead of you
[23:56:20] <les> haw
[23:56:59] <jmkasunich> FETS at the 10HP level are almost unheard of
[23:57:24] <jmkasunich> 240V input means 340 or so V DC bus, and you normally use 600V semiconductors
[23:57:31] <les> IGBT?
[23:57:35] <jmkasunich> 480V input uses 1200V semiconductors
[23:57:38] <jmkasunich> yes, IGBTs
[23:57:51] <les> ok
[23:58:05] <jmkasunich> $75 each for a 500V 25A FET is why we use IGBTs
[23:58:12] <les> I see
[23:58:35] <les> I just want to make chips fast
[23:58:42] <jmkasunich> a 25A 600V (or even 1200V) six-pack of IGBTs is probably less than $75
[23:58:48] <les> you should see the piles of cherry chips
[23:58:52] <les> tons!!!
[23:59:17] <jmkasunich> and has less conduction loss than the FETs to boot (switching loss is another story, if you need more than about 12KHz
[23:59:34] <jmkasunich> what do you do with the chips?
[23:59:40] <les> 90+% of the prime black cherry ends up chips!
[23:59:54] <Phydbleep> jmkasunich: This was a monolithic block.. Like 5 or 6 wires and designed for vfd.