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[00:09:38] <robin_sz> * robin_sz buys another part of his "plate loader" jigsaw
[00:09:49] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[00:09:49] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[00:10:56] <robin_sz> vacuum pump ...
[00:12:00] <fenn> laser jigsaw.. heh
[00:28:48] <Jymmm> bah
[00:28:59] <Jymmm> * Jymmm hates saws!
[00:29:12] <Jymmm> ok, hates cheap saws
[00:29:25] <Jymmm> too much chipout =(
[00:29:51] <Jacky^> :)
[00:31:23] <Jacky^> night
[00:33:18] <k4ts> night
[00:56:04] <alex_joni> hello
[02:46:18] <Jymmm> hi
[02:47:16] <alex_joni> hi
[02:50:22] <Jymmm> bit tired and slow tonight
[02:50:33] <alex_joni_> how did you know?
[02:50:44] <Jymmm> I was talking about ME!
[02:51:08] <alex_joni_> :P
[02:51:10] <alex_joni_> I know ,)
[02:51:54] <Jymmm> You know how every one in a while, dead goes by so fast, and other times, time just drags out? Well... I think someone is just fucking with us and speeding up/slowing down time.
[02:52:05] <Jymmm> s/dead/time/
[02:52:18] <cradek> it's a bug in the computer simulation we live in
[02:52:22] <alex_joni_> FO?
[02:52:30] <Jymmm> FO?
[02:52:35] <alex_joni_> feed override
[02:52:41] <Jymmm> heh
[02:52:46] <alex_joni_> can be triggered with a NML message
[02:52:51] <Jymmm> No, I mean the big clock on the sky
[02:53:06] <alex_joni_> yes, and I mean what cradek said
[02:53:11] <fenn> it's all time dilation, can be easily explained by relativity
[02:53:24] <Jymmm> oh shit, didnt even see ya chris
[02:53:36] <Jymmm> hi
[02:53:41] <cradek> hello
[02:54:00] <alex_joni_> fenn: so it is feed override..
[02:54:30] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/coming-in-a-little-hot.png
[02:54:58] <Jymmm> E!=mc�
[02:56:06] <fenn> side view:
http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/lightspeed-side.png
[02:57:23] <Jymmm> fenn your top secret project.... building a space shuttle
[02:57:49] <fenn> nah that's kid stuff :{
[03:01:54] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: E=mc2 ;)
[03:02:28] <Jymmm> mc*2 since when?
[03:02:41] <alex_joni_> since emc2
[03:02:53] <Jymmm> E=mc� ! E=mc2
[03:05:08] <les_w> oh how did you do that superscript?
[03:05:22] <alex_joni_> it's underscript here
[03:05:24] <alex_joni_> hi les
[03:05:27] <cradek> COMPOSE ^ 2
[03:05:28] <les_w> hi
[03:05:43] <les_w> ok. e=mc^2
[03:05:44] <les_w> so
[03:05:52] <cradek> no mc�
[03:06:00] <les_w> How much energy is in your body right now?
[03:06:22] <cradek> 1 �J
[03:06:35] <les_w> let's see
[03:06:44] <Jymmm> les_w it'll cost ya 99�
[03:07:01] <les_w> how about 10^10 joules?
[03:07:08] <les_w> oops
[03:07:12] <les_w> 10^18
[03:07:13] <Jymmm> Inquiring minds want to know �
[03:07:14] <les_w> duh
[03:07:33] <les_w> 10^18 watt seconds
[03:07:33] <Jymmm> les_w ok, well have a � off sale
[03:07:37] <cradek> Jymmm: ok ok, sheesh
[03:07:45] <Jymmm> cradek what?!
[03:08:00] <les_w> about enough to vaporize a solar system.
[03:08:09] <cradek> les_w: why can I hardly stay awake?
[03:08:10] <les_w> do you feel....energetic?
[03:08:12] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni * 10emc/scripts/generic/readme:
[03:08:12] <CIA-8> Update of the readme, it was a bit out of date.
[03:08:12] <CIA-8> This is the file that gets released with new tgz's..
[03:08:12] <CIA-8> It now holds instructions for install from sources and from bin,
[03:08:12] <CIA-8> along with a list of recent changes..
[03:08:13] <CIA-8> Any future changes to emc1, please append to that list.
[03:08:23] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ feels energetic
[03:08:36] <Jymmm> les_w I'm copy n pasting them =)
[03:08:42] <cradek> yay alex
[03:08:44] <alex_joni_> but I don't if I consider when I'll wake up..
[03:08:58] <alex_joni_> and I'm not even asleep yet :)
[03:09:00] <cradek> Jymmm: you can type them if you configure your X correctly
[03:09:06] <les_w> cradek, you are getting sleeeepy...sleeeepy....
[03:09:19] <cradek> Jymmm: you use the compose key
[03:09:33] <cradek> Jymmm: aka "multi" key
[03:09:38] <alex_joni_> les_w: did you study the simple_TP ?
[03:10:02] <les_w> subscripts, superscripts, integral signs and such would be good.
[03:10:12] <cradek> doesn't have any of that
[03:10:14] <les_w> I did study some code yes
[03:10:21] <cradek> just � and � I think
[03:10:22] <alex_joni_> how does it read?
[03:11:15] <les_w> Well, I think the whole course/fine (sub) interpolate thing is kinda weird
[03:11:55] <les_w> to do polynomial splines in tp would require a different queue structure
[03:12:00] <les_w> possible I guess
[03:12:41] <cradek> les_w: that's easy once you have the splines
[03:13:30] <alex_joni_> cradek: care for some splines?
[03:14:11] <cradek> I think I could easily (?) make emc follow them with exact stops at the end.
[03:14:25] <les_w> the whole blend/subinterpolate thing is a vestige of times long ago whan computational power was low I think
[03:14:43] <les_w> now you just spline up period
[03:16:11] <les_w> but then when was the emc core code written?
[03:16:19] <fenn> les ever heard of a pythagoras-hodograph curve?
[03:16:19] <les_w> 10-12 years ago?
[03:16:45] <les_w> vaguely fenn but I don't remember
[03:20:20] <les_w> A while back I tried proving the pythagorean theorem like he did...with no analytical geometry. Just with some sticks. A purely geometric mathematical proof.
[03:20:32] <les_w> it was not easy!
[03:20:40] <les_w> took me a couple hours
[03:20:57] <les_w> those ancients were damn smart!
[03:21:09] <les_w> try it some time.
[03:21:19] <fenn> how do you add the areas together?
[03:21:45] <alex_joni_> did you say ancients?
[03:21:48] <les_w> you have to prove a skew first.
[03:21:51] <les_w> yeah
[03:21:55] <alex_joni_> they built the stargates you know...
[03:21:59] <les_w> heh
[03:22:31] <les_w> lots of java applets on geometrical proofs
[03:22:47] <les_w> but just try it without looking at them for clues
[03:22:49] <fenn> yuck
[03:22:52] <les_w> not easy!!!
[03:23:17] <jepler> there are some proofs shown here:
http://www.cut-the-knot.org/pythagoras/index.shtml
[03:23:26] <fenn> i dont know how to prove anything, much less do it without any words
[03:24:11] <alex_joni_> hi jeff
[03:24:52] <les_w> jeff, now you know. But try it without those learning aids
[03:25:00] <les_w> it was hard
[03:25:05] <les_w> for me at least
[03:25:47] <jepler> les_w: is the proof you found similar to any of the ones on this page? I think I'd be most likely to find proof 3 or 4 myself.
[03:26:23] <jepler> but I can believe the "ancients" were very smart. I was much smarter a few years ago than I am now, and just imagine how smart I would have been 2000 years ago if you do a linear regression...
[03:26:38] <les_w> proof 3 is the easiest. No I did not do it that way. I could not see it or didn't think of it.
[03:26:47] <les_w> I proved a skew first.
[03:26:56] <alex_joni_> jepler: lol
[03:26:57] <les_w> I did it the hard way I guess
[03:28:15] <cradek> proof #3 is brilliant
[03:28:49] <jepler> man there are a lot of proofs here
[03:29:13] <jepler> my question: is the idea of the Pythagorean Theorem somehow enhanced by another correct proof?
[03:29:17] <les_w> It is weird to think of the ancients being as smart as us or smarter, but being at the total mercy of their enviroment....dying in 20 years
[03:30:07] <les_w> I did the skew proof first. I did not need to though. I just didn't see any other way
[03:30:17] <alex_joni_> aieee.. too many ;)
[03:30:27] <alex_joni_> but #3 is great
[03:30:30] <les_w> I'm no Pythagorous!
[03:30:39] <les_w> I think he did #3
[03:30:40] <alex_joni_> 4,5 are just a bit different
[03:31:24] <les_w> yeah
[03:31:55] <alex_joni_> I wonder how many of those actually use knowledge that pythagora didn't have..
[03:32:44] <alex_joni_> like area of a triangle.. did he know that already? or discover it later?
[03:32:53] <Jymmm> les_w grab me when your not busy
[03:33:04] <les_w> I just see it as pre and post calculus. Kepler spent a lifetime trying to come up with a geometric model of what the calculus does.
[03:33:39] <les_w> calculus===industrial revolution and us living longer than 20 years
[03:36:43] <les_w> If the ancients had figured out the calculus we would be living on alpha centauri
[03:36:50] <les_w> or near...
[03:36:51] <les_w> haha
[03:37:29] <Jymmm> In a galaxy far far away....
[03:38:34] <cradek> les_w: I assume there was something like a normal distribution of intelligence, just like now, and we have surviving works from the very brightest
[03:38:47] <cradek> like today, I bet there were many, many dull-witted people...
[03:39:38] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[03:39:38] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[03:40:17] <les_w> cradek. I think about one dozen individuals were responsible for humans going from caves to the moon.
[03:40:22] <les_w> if that many
[03:40:40] <alex_joni_> I think there are caves on the moon
[03:40:48] <les_w> big big spread in human cognitive ability
[03:40:54] <les_w> alex: hahahaha
[03:41:05] <alex_joni_> so it's just like going to other caves
[03:41:08] <alex_joni_> ROFL
[03:41:14] <les_w> heh
[03:41:21] <fenn> les_w: why do you think there is such a large distribution?
[03:41:41] <les_w> hmm...
[03:41:43] <fenn> i mean in both senses, why you think that, and what is the mechanism behind it
[03:42:39] <les_w> I thought about that some with the pythagoran thing with sticks
[03:42:47] <Jymmm> les_w when your cutting your sign blanks, how do prevent chipout?
[03:42:57] <les_w> I showed other people and they did not understand
[03:43:07] <les_w> they just saw a pile of sticks.
[03:43:33] <les_w> chipout where?
[03:44:20] <fenn> Jymmm: duct tape :)
[03:44:27] <fenn> or maybe packing tape
[03:44:32] <Jymmm> fenn tried that, didn't work
[03:44:41] <Jymmm> les_w my cut pieces
[03:44:57] <les_w> good idea though...I have glued paper to the surface...sand off later
[03:45:27] <Jymmm> les_w how have you been doing it so far for your sign blanks?
[03:45:28] <fenn> jymmm get a better saw blade.. more teeth, sharper rake angles
[03:46:28] <Jymmm> my mitersaw is 60T but I need some way to "fill" the crevice to prevent bottom chipout
[03:46:30] <fenn> you could try cutting from both sides, finishing in the middle
[03:46:39] <Jymmm> fenn eeeeeeeeeeeww
[03:46:42] <les_w> I stopped using paper when I found that if I just left the filler coats on the wood it would hold the fibers in place
[03:47:07] <Jymmm> les_w filler coat, you mentioned that once before, what is it?
[03:47:29] <les_w> water based acrylic pore filler
[03:47:45] <Jymmm> clear?
[03:47:49] <Jymmm> dries clear?
[03:47:54] <les_w> basically .
[03:47:58] <fenn> are you using a sliding miter saw or a "chop saw"?
[03:48:04] <les_w> slight haze
[03:48:16] <Jymmm> fenn chop, lil dinky thing, 8.5" blade
[03:48:58] <les_w> funny. We cut turkey call planks with a chain saw!
[03:49:19] <Jymmm> you know the hole in miter saws where the blade goes after it'ds thru the material.... mine is about 1/2" wide and about 6" long, any idea on what I could fill that with?
[03:49:23] <les_w> The cnc does the final edge trimming
[03:49:44] <Jymmm> les_w thats what I've been doing, but can't this time.
[03:49:48] <les_w> jymmm: bondo?
[03:50:14] <Jymmm> les_w can I hit the bondo with the blade or will it fubar my blade?
[03:50:36] <fenn> bondo is thermoset resin filled with talc, it should be fine
[03:50:53] <les_w> It won't hurt it for one quick slice
[03:50:54] <fenn> dont know how you will get it flat enough though
[03:51:14] <Jymmm> ok, my saw is painted cast iron should stick
[03:51:52] <Jymmm> fenn flat enough? just run a straight edge across it beefore it dries hard
[03:52:05] <fenn> i'd sugest casting it upside down actually
[03:52:27] <fenn> unless you do multiple coats of bondo
[03:52:34] <fenn> it tends to sag a little after you scrape it
[03:52:55] <Jymmm> all the newer saws have a replacable plastic piece, this is OLD
[03:53:07] <les_w> it is unsaturated polyester/styrene thermoset catalyzed with benzoyl peroxide or methyl ethyl ketone peroxide.
[03:53:22] <Jymmm> what does the peroxide do?
[03:53:41] <les_w> filled with talc, clay, microballons, or chopped glass
[03:53:47] <fenn> creates a free radical on the monomer probably
[03:54:11] <les_w> catalyst
[03:54:17] <Jymmm> ah
[03:54:34] <les_w> the stuff in the little tube...
[03:54:41] <fenn> smelly stuff
[03:54:53] <les_w> it's the styrene
[03:55:04] <les_w> smelly and bad to breathe
[03:55:05] <fenn> no the mek peroxide smells worse, and you cant wash it off
[03:55:16] <Jymmm> heh
[03:55:52] <fenn> jymmm why not just plunk a board down on the table?
[03:55:54] <les_w> I got sick last time I mixed up a bunch. Had poor ventilation.
[03:55:58] <Jymmm> I'll have to take a pic of my saw,
[03:56:28] <fenn> i used to use bondo resin for casting miniature models in my dorm room.. everyone thought i was making drugs
[03:56:33] <Jymmm> fenn at 90 deg the limit is 5.5", guess the width of the stuff I need to cut is?
[03:56:59] <les_w> 5.51
[03:57:06] <fenn> uh, 1"?
[03:57:08] <Jymmm> exatly =)
[03:57:12] <Jymmm> 5.5"
[03:57:23] <Jymmm> if I rasi it up, it'll be a tad short.
[03:57:41] <fenn> get a sawblade attachment for your router
[03:58:04] <fenn> you'll be the only kid on the block with a cnc jigsaw
[03:58:24] <Jymmm> lol
[03:58:38] <Jymmm> I'd rather have a 150 watt laser
[03:59:23] <Jymmm> excuse me a sec, brb
[03:59:27] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[04:00:11] <les_w> ?
[04:00:13] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[04:00:32] <Jymmm> les_w one of my alter egos
[04:00:39] <les_w> ha
[04:00:50] <Jymmm> had to bitchslap someone in antoher channel
[04:01:09] <les_w> I just finished playng trivial pursuit on paltalk.
[04:01:20] <Jymmm> night #2 huh?
[04:01:27] <les_w> I seem to do very well at that game.
[04:01:38] <les_w> I guess I am really trivial.
[04:02:16] <Jymmm> I always did shitty at it
[04:02:46] <les_w> I was always good at that and monopoly.
[04:03:14] <Jymmm> I'm just good at giving ppl a hard time
[04:03:28] <les_w> deviced a 3 decker monopoly with slum, middle class, and rich layers.
[04:03:36] <Jymmm> lol
[04:04:01] <Jymmm> wiht a express shuttle from the hookville to the lawyerville?
[04:04:08] <les_w> We had an anything goes monopoly too.
[04:04:33] <Jymmm> wiht a express shuttle from Hookerville to LawyerTown?
[04:04:57] <les_w> lie, cheat, loan shark, steal from the bank, dog ear chance and community chest cards
[04:05:24] <Jymmm> loan shark?
[04:05:25] <les_w> beer was involved too.
[04:05:34] <les_w> yeah!!!
[04:05:47] <Jymmm> how do you loan shark in monopoly?
[04:06:14] <les_w> need money? I'll loan it. 100% interest each time you pass go.
[04:06:29] <Jymmm> break theri legs on the playing piece?
[04:06:35] <les_w> hahaha
[04:08:24] <Jymmm> les_w but really, is it just my cheap saw(s), or something else to prevent chipout, like on mitered pieces, such as a picture frame.
[04:08:33] <les_w> no legs on mine. I was always the top hat token.
[04:08:48] <Jymmm> poor lil toto
[04:09:21] <les_w> for starters just try gluing some paper on
[04:09:42] <Jymmm> butcher paper?
[04:09:45] <les_w> it works.
[04:10:05] <Jymmm> you have to realize that I dont have the space/area to glue on and sand off like that.
[04:10:06] <les_w> printer paper with elmer's
[04:10:36] <les_w> well, try packing tape
[04:10:54] <Jymmm> I did masking tape on the piece that I had already PU'es, but still had tiny chipout.
[04:11:02] <Jymmm> PU'ed
[04:11:09] <Jymmm> micro chipout
[04:11:23] <les_w> masking tape is designed not to stick well
[04:11:30] <les_w> try other tapes
[04:11:46] <Jymmm> would a sliding computer miter saw do better?
[04:11:56] <les_w> heh
[04:12:17] <Jymmm> ooops, I'm tired tonight.... compound
[04:12:44] <les_w> scoring before cutting works wonders too
[04:12:54] <Jymmm> dewalt has one, the blade alone of $120
[04:13:54] <les_w> yeah good blades cost about $100
[04:14:04] <les_w> forrest is the very best
[04:15:23] <Jymmm> http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=9793
[04:22:59] <Jymmm> does anything disolve bond once cured?
[04:23:27] <alex_joni_> usually a bond-girl
[04:23:47] <alex_joni_> and a martini
[04:23:50] <Jymmm> doh.... bondo
[04:24:03] <alex_joni_> what's bondo?
[04:24:12] <Jymmm> car body filler
[04:24:16] <alex_joni_> no idea ;)
[04:24:27] <alex_joni_> but I liked the bond stuff :D
[04:25:07] <Jymmm> yeah
[04:25:27] <alex_joni_> it's official ;)
[04:25:33] <alex_joni_> a new EMC has been released
[04:25:35] <Jymmm> you're pregnant?
[04:25:43] <fenn> Jymmm: no
[04:26:14] <Jymmm> alex_joni congrats to the you and the father!
[04:26:31] <alex_joni_> I think chris is the father
[04:26:33] <alex_joni_> ROFL
[04:26:44] <cradek> well that's sure a surprise
[04:27:06] <alex_joni_> see.. told you, you should have used some firewall :)
[04:27:11] <alex_joni_> or any kind of protection
[04:27:13] <alex_joni_> :P
[04:27:16] <cradek> but I trusted you
[04:27:27] <alex_joni_> I don't know how it happened... :(
[04:27:35] <cradek> oh I know how it happened
[04:27:45] <alex_joni_> you do? :-O
[04:27:52] <alex_joni_> don't tell ... :-x
[04:27:58] <cradek> ok then
[04:30:03] <alex_joni_> I'm off to bed
[04:30:12] <alex_joni_> hope I won't have any more surprises :D
[04:31:05] <cradek> goodnight
[04:31:12] <cradek> I'll finish the tags before bed
[04:31:23] <alex_joni_> before I go.. can you download for a test, and see if it's ok?
[04:31:46] <cradek> sure
[04:31:49] <alex_joni_> the size seems wrong :/
[04:32:15] <alex_joni_> I am trying that too.. but it's slow
[04:33:48] <cradek> I can't seem to download it
[04:33:52] <cradek> I don't think it's on the mirrors yet
[04:34:20] <alex_joni_> 50% downloaded here
[04:34:29] <alex_joni_> http://ovh.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/emc/emc-1.2.0-rc1.src.tgz
[04:35:10] <cradek> aha
[04:35:38] <fenn> are you gonna do a news item?
[04:35:48] <cradek> rcslib/src/java/rcsdesign/AlertDialog.java
[04:35:48] <cradek> tar: Unexpected EOF in archive
[04:35:48] <cradek> tar: Error is not recoverable: exiting now
[04:35:48] <alex_joni_> sure fenn..
[04:35:53] <alex_joni_> it's borked :(
[04:35:54] <cradek> alex_joni_: bad upload
[04:35:57] <cradek> yeah
[04:35:59] <alex_joni_> I'll upload again
[04:36:04] <alex_joni_> not the upload the problem :(
[04:36:15] <alex_joni_> when releasing you ftp it up,
[04:36:25] <alex_joni_> and from the web interface you connect it to a release
[04:36:36] <alex_joni_> I think I did that before the upload was finished :/
[04:37:09] <cradek> tags done
[04:38:13] <alex_joni_> uploading again
[04:38:29] <cradek> is the sun coming up yet?
[04:38:46] <alex_joni_> not yet.. I might outrun it
[04:39:16] <SWPadnos> do you want to mirror the tar file on cncgear?
[04:39:29] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: no thanks
[04:39:32] <SWPadnos> ok
[04:39:46] <cradek> sf has plenty of mirrors
[04:39:50] <alex_joni_> if it's on SF.. they have plenty of mirrors
[04:39:59] <SWPadnos> ok - I hear sf has lots of mirrors
[04:40:08] <alex_joni_> lol
[04:40:11] <Jymmm> alex_joni the other surprises will come in the form of morning sickness
[04:40:11] <cradek> the thing about sf is they have a lot of mirrors
[04:40:19] <alex_joni_> great minds.. think alike
[04:40:25] <SWPadnos> so you can never tell which is the real one, huh?
[04:40:38] <alex_joni_> no, but there are plenty
[04:40:52] <fenn> the real one will bonk you on the head
[04:41:57] <alex_joni_> almost there...
[04:42:06] <fenn> what about docs?
[04:42:18] <alex_joni_> those will follow
[04:44:11] <alex_joni_> should be ok now...
[04:44:16] <alex_joni_> who can check?
[04:44:36] <SWPadnos> from the url above?
[04:44:45] <alex_joni_> not yet
[04:44:53] <alex_joni_> http://osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/emc/emc-1.2.0-rc1.src.tgz
[04:45:04] <alex_joni_> but there are plenty of mirrors
[04:45:28] <alex_joni_> they don't have the file though :)
[04:45:55] <SWPadnos> ok, 2690k (vs 2260k for the earlier one)
[04:46:27] <alex_joni_> does it untar?
[04:46:28] <SWPadnos> total of 1239 files in the tar (that may include dirs, I'm not sure)
[04:47:13] <SWPadnos> WinZip seems to untar it just fine
[04:47:20] <alex_joni_> ok
[04:47:33] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: hint, use total commander
[04:47:46] <SWPadnos> in Windows?
[04:47:53] <alex_joni_> it's so much better ;) and handles any packages
[04:47:55] <alex_joni_> yes
[04:48:15] <alex_joni_> I open .bz2, .tgz, .deb, .rpm, .iso you name it
[04:48:25] <SWPadnos> well - I actually have a WinZip license, so I might as well use it
[04:48:33] <alex_joni_> :)
[04:48:59] <alex_joni_> total commander is much more.. actually a file/system browser
[04:49:13] <SWPadnos> actually, it's a 3-user license, so I *really* should use it :)
[04:49:15] <alex_joni_> like the old norton commander, or mc on linux
[04:49:31] <SWPadnos> I also have take Command, which I like quite abit
[04:49:34] <SWPadnos> a bit
[04:49:52] <SWPadnos> if you've ever heard of 4DOS, this is the Win32 version
[04:50:04] <alex_joni_> I think so.. a while ago
[04:50:20] <SWPadnos> back in the big BBS days, it was very popular
[04:51:06] <SWPadnos> ok - the newest WinZip also supports bzip2
[04:51:16] <SWPadnos> though I'd have to pay for the upgrade, I think :(
[04:52:16] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: how much for winzip?
[04:52:48] <SWPadnos> I'm trying to find out what the upgrade costs. the normal price is $30
[04:52:52] <cradek> * cradek laughs at paying for an unzip program
[04:53:00] <alex_joni_> right :)
[04:53:08] <cradek> * cradek laughs at paying for an OS
[04:53:09] <SWPadnos> yeah - it is kinda funny
[04:53:13] <cradek> * cradek trolls
[04:53:14] <cradek> sorry
[04:53:42] <SWPadnos> I hate paying for a F*&^%$^ OS as well, but my fine development software only runs on Win$
[04:54:09] <cradek> SWPadnos: mingw
[04:54:28] <SWPadnos> not C development
[04:54:57] <SWPadnos> microcontroller, DSP, PCB, FPGA ...
[04:55:09] <cradek> ah
[04:55:13] <cradek> I only do avr
[04:55:25] <SWPadnos> and so you can use avr-gcc :)
[04:55:45] <cradek> of course
[04:55:50] <SWPadnos> I think the Atmel software (which is pretty good, BTW) will run under WINE
[04:55:50] <cradek> it works great
[04:56:03] <cradek> yeah maybe
[04:56:26] <SWPadnos> but if you're used to emacs/vi and have command line tools, plus gdb set up for it, then you're just as well off (almost)
[04:56:37] <SWPadnos> the only thing you lose is the nice simulator
[04:56:50] <cradek> I had a linux simulator, forget what it was
[04:56:52] <cradek> I never used it
[04:57:04] <cradek> you could attach gdb to it
[04:57:18] <SWPadnos> it's probably less necessary when you use C instead of asm
[04:57:22] <cradek> yeah
[04:57:34] <SWPadnos> I've never used C on an AVR
[04:57:34] <cradek> it's easy to write a correct C program
[04:57:41] <cradek> oh try it, you'll never go back
[04:57:50] <cradek> kicks ass
[04:57:57] <SWPadnos> I've used C many times on non-AVR stuff (including other micros)
[04:58:14] <SWPadnos> but al the stuff I've done on AVR is *HARD* realtime
[04:58:15] <cradek> it usually generates about the same asm you would write by hand
[04:58:29] <SWPadnos> like - count the cycles, make sure they line up nicely
[04:58:34] <cradek> ugh
[04:58:37] <SWPadnos> things like software radio reception
[04:58:46] <cradek> I generated ntsc for one project
[04:59:02] <cradek> there was a little bit of inline asm
[04:59:13] <SWPadnos> though the rest of it could easily be done in C (UI, EEPROM management, timing (using a timer) etc)
[05:00:12] <cradek> I'm off to bed
[05:00:13] <cradek> goodnight
[05:00:19] <SWPadnos> night
[05:01:01] <alex_joni_> night chris
[05:01:02] <alex_joni_> :=
[05:03:44] <Jymmm> WinZip USED to give free upgrades.... bastards
[05:03:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos there's always pkzip =)
[05:04:10] <SWPadnos> yep, but winzip works for me
[05:04:25] <Jymmm> oh you need tar huh?
[05:05:01] <alex_joni_> SWPadnos: for the same price get total commander, it does so much more
[05:05:13] <chris__> hi
[05:05:14] <alex_joni_> hi chris__
[05:05:16] <Jymmm> heh theres a free one now
[05:05:20] <SWPadnos> heh - you just missed cradek ;)
[05:05:33] <alex_joni_> * alex_joni_ prepares to crawl in bed too..
[05:05:40] <chris__> yeah i emailed the error he wanted
[05:07:14] <alex_joni_> ok.. that's it
[05:07:23] <alex_joni_> 7am .. way too late..
[05:07:27] <alex_joni_> night all
[05:07:41] <alex_joni_> chris__: any luck on your RTLinux ?
[05:07:57] <alex_joni_> I read some logs with your discussions with cradek
[05:09:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos FREE
http://www.zipgenius.it/index_eng.htm
[05:10:13] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos already has a 3-user license for winzip
[05:12:19] <alex_joni_> chris__: any questions before I leave?
[05:13:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni: How much wood can a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
[05:13:18] <alex_joni_> about 2 pounds
[05:13:24] <Jymmm> =)
[05:13:46] <alex_joni_> but that's only IF
[05:15:54] <Jymmm> =)
[05:18:31] <alex_joni_> ok.. night all
[06:43:01] <fenn> i can't figure out the story behind this one:
http://www.jrbassett.com/shuttle/SHTc30.JPG
[06:45:32] <Jymmm> is it legit?
[07:09:38] <fenn> of course.. but, wtf?
[07:10:18] <Jymmm> What... astronaunts can't have a sense of humor?
[11:53:30] <Jacky^> morning
[16:20:05] <jepler> in emc2, when are the .mo files built and where are they installed?
[16:20:22] <jepler> I'd like to use the translated rs274ngc error messages in AXIS when they're available
[16:21:43] <alex_joni> jepler: I think they don't get built as .mo
[16:21:53] <alex_joni> but I really don't have a clue how they get used
[16:35:54] <jepler> alex_joni: judging from the fact that 'msgfmt' won't even process de_rs274ngc_err.mo, I think you might be right that it's not used
[16:36:03] <jepler> on the other hand, I could have sworn I got some german messages from emc2 when testing
[16:36:06] <jepler> (not from axis)
[16:42:48] <alex_joni> it does work.. but not sure how
[16:43:54] <alex_joni> I think there is a define called USE_NLS
[16:44:06] <alex_joni> that activates gettext()
[16:44:54] <jepler> but gettext() always refers to a .mo fille, doesn't it?
[16:47:51] <alex_joni> looking now
[16:50:50] <alex_joni> I really have no clue ;)
[17:22:31] <alex_joni> hi Martin
[17:24:27] <Imperator_> Hi Alex
[17:24:35] <alex_joni> what's up Martin?
[17:24:51] <alex_joni> did you ever use rs274 error messages in german?
[17:24:53] <Imperator_> was out with the bike
[17:25:12] <Imperator_> i have sean them, why ?
[17:25:51] <alex_joni> I asked if you used them ;)
[17:26:16] <Imperator_> how can i use error messages :-)
[17:27:08] <alex_joni> I mean to use the translations..
[17:27:11] <alex_joni> never mind ;)
[17:27:29] <Imperator_> ah, yes
[17:27:44] <Imperator_> it switched automaticaly to german
[17:27:53] <alex_joni> it did?
[17:27:58] <alex_joni> strange :D
[17:28:00] <Imperator_> yes
[17:28:15] <Imperator_> since a long time
[17:28:18] <alex_joni> you know I mean the rs274 stuff, not tkemc
[17:28:30] <Imperator_> ah, sorry no idea
[17:29:17] <Imperator_> hm
[17:42:14] <rayh> alex_joni: I seem to remember that work being done by Max Hess.
[17:42:27] <rayh> Last I heard he was somewhere near Berlin.
[17:43:04] <alex_joni> yeah, the work is ok.. not sure how to use it though
[17:43:20] <rayh> Don't look at me.
[17:44:00] <rayh> IMO the interp looked up errors based on numbers
[17:44:19] <rayh> so substituting the de file for the en one might do it.
[17:44:44] <alex_joni> rayh: btw, think you can generate new pdf's?
[17:44:57] <rayh> of?
[17:46:10] <rayh> * rayh fears, "all of it!"
[18:06:05] <alex_joni> heh.. the docs ;)
[18:06:26] <alex_joni> or should I say.. 'only the docs' ..
[18:06:33] <alex_joni> if they changed of course
[18:07:48] <rayh> They have all changed.
[18:08:10] <rayh> I put some new stuff in Hal_Introduction.lyx the other day.
[18:08:29] <rayh> but we should add to halcmd for the new.
[18:08:49] <rayh> and for the timer that swp wrote a few days ago
[18:09:03] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos runs away screaming
[18:09:29] <rayh> I could go through the user_handbook and rip out what doesn't apply any more
[18:09:37] <rayh> big changes with emc2 and the ini
[18:09:58] <rayh> a major revision to the g code stuff for lerman.
[18:10:41] <rayh> I'm finishing up a book edit right now but could get some work done by Monday.
[18:12:39] <alex_joni> oh.. I meant docs for emc1 first
[18:12:46] <alex_joni> those shouldn't be that different
[18:14:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes away for a while
[18:18:51] <rayh> okay. let me work on it a bit.
[18:20:51] <Jacky^> hallo :))
[18:21:07] <rayh> Hello Jacky^
[18:21:14] <Jacky^> hi rayh
[18:23:02] <Jacky^> today we got a wonderful day in Pompei !
[18:23:15] <Jacky^> uploading some photos :D
[18:23:30] <Jacky^> a very nice day :)
[18:25:39] <rayh> Great.
[18:26:10] <rayh> Not bad here, just a bit of snow on the breeze. About -5c
[18:26:58] <Jacky^> we got a very nice day today
[18:27:23] <Jacky^> planning to visit Capri Island tomorrow if the weather is good ..
[18:27:44] <Jacky^> tryng to get a bit of funny before to restart the hard work :(
[18:27:50] <Jacky^> some days yet ..
[18:29:25] <rayh> Sounds like a fun trip.
[18:29:43] <Jacky^> about 30 min of boat from here
[18:30:18] <Jacky^> I just hope in a good day, here was rainin since 22 dic with no break
[18:30:55] <rayh> sounds like where I used to live, Oregon, USA.
[18:31:10] <Jacky^> mmhh to much rain :(
[18:36:35] <Jacky^> life is strange .. I passed around Pompei lot of times. Never seen it. After I see Stallman photos in Pompei , I just decided to spend a day to go to visit Pompei
[18:37:00] <Jacky^> it was 40 min of car from here..
[18:40:41] <Jacky^> upload complete :D
[18:40:44] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/pompei/index.html
[18:41:45] <Jacky^> I made 400 or moro photos :P but upload just some
[18:41:53] <Jacky^> more
[18:44:19] <Jacky^> What you see is waht remain after vesuvio eruption
[18:48:18] <rayh> Years ago I read how they had found tiny fractures in some of the lava
[18:48:43] <rayh> caused by noises during the hardening.
[18:48:47] <Jacky^> yeah :)
[18:49:06] <rayh> by reading these fractures, they could hear the sounds
[18:51:02] <Jacky^> they found peoples covered by lava looking as sculptures
[18:51:22] <rayh> Nice set of images.
[18:51:24] <Jacky^> someone was eating, ome other in the bed ..
[18:51:26] <Jacky^> :)
[18:51:30] <rayh> That you?
[18:51:34] <Jacky^> yeah
[18:51:43] <Jacky^> and shes K4ts
[18:52:25] <rayh> that image has not gotten here yet.
[18:54:34] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/pompei/img087.jpeg.html
[18:54:52] <Jacky^> in this you can see the vulcan smoking ..
[18:55:18] <Jacky^> latest strong earthquake has been in 1980 here
[19:01:45] <rayh> darn, images stopped before k4ts got here.
[19:02:10] <Jacky^> hehehe
[19:02:47] <Jacky^> rayh: you want to switch at faster dsl :)
[19:03:24] <rayh> dialup -- I want faster anything!
[19:04:05] <Jacky^> :)
[19:04:43] <rayh> Much to far from town to get any connection other than sat.
[19:04:57] <rayh> Unless I set up a wireless link.
[19:05:20] <rayh> and that costs to much for right now.
[19:05:34] <Jacky^> mmm.. yep
[19:15:19] <Jacky^> later
[19:15:25] <Jacky^> Jacky^ is now known as Jacky^dinner
[20:19:32] <chris__> hi
[20:23:56] <SWPadnos> hi chris__
[20:24:08] <SWPadnos> any luck with a DEBUG build?
[20:24:27] <chris__> yeah i emailed chris radek
[20:25:08] <SWPadnos> ok, cool
[20:25:36] <chris__> errno 22
[20:26:52] <chris__> _sen.c: rcs_sem_wait(): invalid argument
[20:27:06] <chris__> _sem.c
[20:27:15] <cradek> chris__: not really... I mean that tells us what's happening, but I don't see why
[20:28:06] <chris__> so no idea what caues that?
[20:28:28] <SWPadnos> I don't see an errno #22 ??
[20:28:51] <SWPadnos> oops - I should look at asm/errno.h as well :)
[20:28:53] <chris__> i do lots
[20:29:06] <cradek> SWPadnos: EINVAL
[20:29:10] <SWPadnos> oh
[20:29:15] <cradek> from semop()
[20:29:28] <ottos> good day gents...
[20:29:28] <cradek> EINVAL The semaphore set doesn't exist, or semid is less than zero, or
[20:29:28] <cradek> nsops has a non-positive value.
[20:29:46] <cradek> we can tell nsops is 1, semid >0, so it means "the semaphore set doesn't exist"
[20:29:58] <cradek> hello ottos
[20:33:02] <chris__> so whats that mean?
[20:33:17] <ottos> I was off for couple of months, so might sound green but are the recompile comands / structure same for the latest release as they ware before ( Redhat release) ?
[20:33:55] <cradek> do you mean the emc 1.2.0-rc1 release we're just now making?
[20:34:20] <ottos> the 4.38..
[20:35:38] <chris__> i go axis to work with emc1. alot has changed since i was here last, sep 7 2004
[20:36:42] <ottos> ouch... what would be that most stable version to work with vital motenc-100?
[20:36:59] <Jacky^dinner> Jacky^dinner is now known as Jacky^
[20:37:23] <chris__> dinner its 7:30am
[20:38:33] <cradek> ottos: the difference between the old redhat releases and the latest BDI is ... everything
[20:39:12] <ottos> hm...guess will have to get all the details... Viki is up to date?
[20:39:41] <cradek> some places more than others, but generally yes
[20:40:02] <jepler> "viki"?
[20:40:04] <chris__> im going on holidays for 2 weeks, cya
[20:40:04] <jepler> oh, wiki?
[20:40:08] <jepler> chris__: have fun
[20:40:14] <chris__> always
[20:40:21] <cradek> ottos: if you have an old working system, you can update emc with the latest release 1.2.0
[20:40:45] <cradek> ottos: that's another alternative to installing a new operating system (BDI)
[20:41:10] <nicky33> nicky33 is now known as TranceRiver
[20:42:06] <ottos> cradek : thank you. for recompiling on the new Bdi, commands are the same?
[20:42:28] <cradek> no, not really
[20:42:39] <ottos> ? suggestions?
[20:42:43] <cradek> compiling emc1 is not possible on the new BDI
[20:42:54] <Jacky^> hi
[20:43:04] <cradek> there is another version of emc that was made just for BDI, it's a combination of emc1 and emc2 code
[20:43:20] <rayh> ottos: There is a wiki page that describes how to set up 4.38 for compiling.
[20:43:25] <Jacky^> does it make much sense to compile emc1 ? :/
[20:43:29] <cradek> if you want to use emc2 (the release is upcoming) BDI is a good platform to use
[20:43:30] <ottos> ok. thanks.
[20:43:54] <rayh> You can NOT compile the emc(1) release on BDI-4.xx
[20:44:09] <ottos> anything that will support servo ( vital )
[20:44:40] <rayh> ottos wrote "most stable version to work with vital motenc-100?"
[20:44:57] <rayh> and the answer there is emc2 running on a bdi 4.30
[20:45:31] <rayh> That is the setup we used for the Mazak at Cardinal Engineering.
[20:45:43] <cradek> that is good to know
[20:46:13] <rayh> The only difference is we used the "lite" or four axis vital board.
[20:46:24] <ottos> nice. so 4.3 should do the trick...
[20:46:56] <rayh> Yep. You will need to work your way through the BDI compile page on the wiki.
[20:47:10] <rayh> at least down to getting the source for the compile
[20:47:18] <ottos> ok will try...
[20:47:29] <rayh> then switch over to getting the emc2 source page and work from there.
[20:47:45] <rayh> the compile is very easy thanks to Alex and the guys.
[20:48:28] <rayh> You could use quite a bit of the mazak config that you get with the emc2 source.
[20:48:41] <ottos> rayh, talking about the Vital cards, did you have any offset voltage on the card output?
[20:48:41] <rayh> but I think it will fail on the aux io.
[20:49:07] <rayh> a bit and it was different between axes?
[20:49:27] <rayh> jmk though it had to do with some sort of ground routing on the card itself
[20:49:51] <rayh> He and Abdul at vital talked about the problem.
[20:50:10] <ottos> who is he.,.>?
[20:50:20] <rayh> You can set the offsets with HAL to zero out drift.
[20:57:31] <CIA-8> 03rayhenry * 10emc2/tcl/bin/halconfig.tcl: startup tests for interactive hal and working tree display.
[21:08:18] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[21:08:18] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[21:11:37] <ottos> thank you guys...will jump on it...
[21:11:45] <Jacky^> :D
[21:11:52] <Jacky^> nice idea :)
[21:15:00] <Jacky^> alex_joni: you around ?
[21:20:10] <Jacky^> I succesful hacked Stallman photo!! :D
[21:20:24] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/pompei/img010.jpeg.html
[21:20:27] <Jacky^> :D
[21:20:31] <Jacky^> uahahahaha
[21:21:39] <Jacky^> I know .. its (c) .. but I just steal it :P
[21:23:59] <Jacky^> alex_joni: this damn auto-settings camera are producing dark images.. whats wrong ? :/
[22:13:56] <Sed_> will the emc2cvs work with a generic 2.6.12 kernel?
[22:14:21] <Sed_> as far as the hal kernel modules and all that loading?
[22:14:45] <cradek> no, you need a realtime kernel
[22:15:06] <skunkworks> as far as I know - you need the real time kernel
[22:15:11] <skunkworks> wow I am slow
[22:15:57] <Sed_> I installed teh Serline BDI install, where do I get a real time kernel, or can that be built from a regular linux source tree?
[22:16:14] <cradek> the BDI comes with a realtime kernel
[22:16:19] <skunkworks> That should work
[22:16:24] <cradek> you should not change the kernel
[22:16:34] <cradek> which BDI version did you install?
[22:16:51] <Sed_> ok, how do I start emc in demo mode from whaat I compiled in cvs
[22:17:03] <cradek> cd to the emc2 directory
[22:17:07] <cradek> scripts/emc sim
[22:17:08] <Sed_> its bitching about not being able load the modules
[22:17:27] <cradek> what's the actual error?
[22:18:04] <Sed_> ERROR: cannot load /lib/modules/2.6.12.6-magma/rtai/rtai_hal.ko
[22:18:05] <Sed_> insmod: can't read 'rtai_hal': No such file or directory
[22:19:21] <cradek> did you make install, or are you running it in place?
[22:19:29] <Sed_> runing in place
[22:19:41] <Sed_> I read make install did not work yet
[22:19:50] <cradek> it's true it is not well tested
[22:20:25] <Sed_> 2.6.12.6-magma is the name of the kernel
[22:20:59] <cradek> unfortunately I don't have a rtai/bdi machine available right now
[22:21:00] <icee> the modules need to make their way into the /lib/modules tree for the kernel
[22:21:08] <icee> make install is a way to make that happen
[22:21:18] <cradek> icee: he should be able to run in place
[22:21:26] <icee> really? hm.
[22:21:27] <cradek> Sed_: what command exactly are you using to start it?
[22:21:36] <icee> i seem to remember some breakage with that
[22:21:51] <cradek> icee: no, that's the typical way to run.
[22:22:01] <Sed_> I have rebuilt the kernel since the CD install
[22:22:16] <cradek> Sed_: ouch
[22:22:26] <cradek> Sed_: does the built-in version of emc work?
[22:22:28] <Sed_> kernel-headers-2.6.12.6-magma I am not sure how to link the headers in
[22:22:31] <icee> building a rt-capable kernel isn't fun
[22:22:46] <cradek> Sed_: why did you recompile it?
[22:22:57] <Sed_> to ad NIC drivers
[22:23:05] <icee> sed: couldn't build them as modules?
[22:23:09] <cradek> Sed_: does the built-in version of emc work?
[22:23:22] <Sed_> no and I dont know why... but that seems to be the problem
[22:23:31] <cradek> ok so this is not an emc2 problem
[22:23:41] <cradek> you must not have some part of rtai installed correctly
[22:23:46] <cradek> I don't know how to help you
[22:23:47] <Sed_> when I rebuilt the kernel I didnt know how to link the kerne headers
[22:24:01] <Sed_> ok I will look into that
[22:24:08] <cradek> good luck Sed_
[22:24:10] <Sed_> I could load the original kernel but then no net...
[22:24:14] <icee> it's not just a kernel header problem if the existing emc install broke, too
[22:24:35] <cradek> it must be something about rtai modules?
[22:24:44] <icee> sed: what you ought to do is use the original kernel, and build networking modules
[22:25:04] <Sed_> icee I did, for some reason they didnt load
[22:25:11] <icee> * icee shrugs
[22:25:15] <cradek> icee: rarely does that work (building modules separately)
[22:25:25] <Sed_> but they built as modules after patching the kernel source.. and loaded
[22:25:42] <icee> cradek: i do that all the time
[22:25:53] <Sed_> so now Ihave to patch the kernel source with kernel-headers-2.6.12.6-magma or figure out were to download all this from scratch
[22:26:06] <icee> of course, you need to be careful with the module version settings and ues the same kernel source
[22:26:13] <cradek> right
[22:26:26] <cradek> always seems to have some problem for me anyway if I don't build them right together
[22:26:29] <cradek> oh well
[22:26:36] <cradek> Sed_: maybe there are docs on rtai.org
[22:26:39] <Sed_> the .config was generated by the existing kernel and other than the headers and nic patch should be the same
[22:26:47] <Sed_> oh ok
[22:27:01] <Sed_> rtai.org I didnt know about.
[22:27:27] <Sed_> I will get the kernel working first with the original EMC.
[22:27:36] <cradek> Sed_: digging up a different network card would probably be faster!
[22:27:49] <Sed_> yea my thoughts too
[22:27:59] <Sed_> but this is for somone else
[22:28:05] <cradek> I like to take the simple way out (and I have lots of hardware around)
[22:34:50] <Jacky^> anyone want to see an homemade videoclip ?
[22:35:04] <Jacky^> http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/mov00975.mpg
[22:35:06] <Jacky^> :D
[22:35:16] <Jacky^> very hard :)
[22:37:26] <Jacky^> hey k4ts !
[22:37:37] <Jacky^> best wishes to you :P
[22:38:00] <k4ts> hello
[22:38:13] <k4ts> thanks
[22:38:16] <Jacky^> nice epiphany
[22:38:17] <k4ts> ih ih
[22:38:25] <Jacky^> :D
[22:39:07] <Jacky^> I know its you birthday today :)
[22:41:54] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ give a broom to k4ts
[22:41:59] <Jacky^> fly now :D
[22:42:58] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ open the window ..
[22:43:33] <k4ts> I go!
[22:43:40] <k4ts> ih ih
[23:12:26] <sed_> wow geting rtai to build is a pain
[23:53:27] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ Playing MPEG stream from Lionel Ritchie - All Night Long.mp3 ...
