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[00:00:07] <SWPadnos> hell, even a 29-yo N.T. would be OK
[00:00:09] <les_w> huh?
[00:00:11] <les_w> haha
[00:00:15] <SWPadnos> ie, not toothless
[00:00:42] <Jymmm> nah 29yo too close to wanting kids, biological clock and all that
[00:00:56] <les_w> did that. married a 28 yo (I think) when I was 50
[00:01:09] <les_w> I was so tired...
[00:01:17] <SWPadnos> I married a 32-y.o when I was 29 - does that count?
[00:01:23] <alex_joni> night all
[00:01:24] <les_w> haha
[00:01:28] <Jymmm> nite alex_joni
[00:01:30] <les_w> night alex
[00:01:33] <SWPadnos> see ya alex
[00:01:44] <alex_joni> yup.. have fun
[00:01:48] <alex_joni> but not too much ;)
[00:01:57] <les_w> the economy sure is good now...turning down work
[00:02:04] <les_w> hope it stays that way
[00:02:35] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:02:57] <les_w> billing at 100 per too..and getting it
[00:02:58] <SWPadnos> remember your favorite Vermont-based PCB and software house :)
[00:03:14] <les_w> sure
[00:03:18] <les_w> haha
[00:03:26] <SWPadnos> I've been at 75 for 5 years, 100 for some clients
[00:03:37] <SWPadnos> I was thinking it was time to increase to 100
[00:03:53] <SWPadnos> people don't seem to take you seriously if you charge too little
[00:04:00] <les_w> I think it's about time to give yourself a raise
[00:04:10] <les_w> 100 really is the going rate
[00:04:22] <SWPadnos> yep - I'll charge you 100 ;)
[00:04:32] <les_w> wait a minute here...
[00:04:33] <les_w> haha
[00:04:36] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:05:36] <les_w> and 1000/day is the going rate for plant trips
[00:05:54] <SWPadnos> yep - I do hat already, and half rate for travel or "down" days
[00:05:59] <SWPadnos> s/hat/that/
[00:06:09] <les_w> sounds like a lot but remember the money isn't worth anything
[00:06:23] <les_w> takes a whellbarrow full just to buy groceries
[00:06:36] <SWPadnos> yep
[00:06:52] <SWPadnos> I read an interesting treatise on how the Federal Reserve system works
[00:07:10] <Jymmm> ^doesn't
[00:07:10] <les_w> I have read a little
[00:07:17] <SWPadnos> they mentioned that in real terms (ie, a gold standard), the price of things hasn't changed much since Roman times
[00:07:50] <SWPadnos> an ounce of gold would buy you a reasonably nice suit in ancient rome, and about the same in a reasonably good mall or mens store now
[00:08:35] <les_w> well yeah. A growth economy requires inflation as money is created from loaning
[00:08:52] <les_w> but neat about the gold thing
[00:09:15] <SWPadnos> yep, but the amount of "stuff" remains nearly constant, so the larger money supply makes stuff cost more
[00:09:34] <les_w> the only thing is...gold mining is prob 1000% more productive now
[00:09:35] <SWPadnos> http://philologos.org/bpr/files/Misc_Studies/ms060.htm
[00:09:50] <les_w> looking
[00:09:57] <SWPadnos> it's long, but interesting
[00:10:18] <SWPadnos> must be taken with a grain of salt, but largely factual (not "interpretation")
[00:10:47] <Jymmm> where's my new phone dmanit, they said they would ship it today!
[00:10:58] <SWPadnos> they're trying to fax it over
[00:11:02] <Jymmm> lol
[00:11:44] <Jymmm> It'll be nice to upgrade the phones here.
[00:11:56] <les_w> My stuff for the rest of the cnc rewire came today
[00:12:07] <les_w> but I did not work
[00:12:18] <Jymmm> les_w well get your ass to wiring!
[00:12:37] <les_w> I was cloudless, no wind, and 70 degrees...a record or near record
[00:12:48] <les_w> so I played golf.
[00:13:03] <Jymmm> oh, play instead of wrok... good man!
[00:13:09] <SWPadnos> heh - in the 40s here, so we're all outside too :)
[00:13:21] <les_w> so 31 at 6 am, 70 at 2 pm
[00:13:23] <Jymmm> 40's?!
[00:13:24] <les_w> dry air
[00:13:27] <Jymmm> 40C
[00:13:35] <SWPadnos> 40F - this is Vermont
[00:13:46] <Jymmm> your outside in the 40's, fuck me
[00:13:50] <les_w> 40 is not bad for jan
[00:13:55] <SWPadnos> without even a sweater
[00:14:13] <SWPadnos> well - with a sweater if I want to be out for long
[00:14:18] <Jymmm> heh
[00:14:25] <SWPadnos> http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KVTESSEX1
[00:14:30] <SWPadnos> this is pretty close to my house
[00:14:31] <les_w> it can get cold down here...below zero once in a while
[00:14:56] <SWPadnos> oops - this one is near my house:
[00:15:03] <SWPadnos> http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KVTESSEX2
[00:16:41] <SWPadnos> man, LTO and AIT-3 tape drives are expensive
[00:17:06] <les_w> here's the vinyard across the street....
[00:17:09] <les_w> http://www.griffin.uga.edu/aemn/cgi-bin/AEMN.pl?site=GATG&report=gt
[00:17:22] <les_w> notice the huge diurnal temp change
[00:17:36] <SWPadnos> big tit there :)
[00:18:00] <les_w> look at the solar radiation tit
[00:18:12] <SWPadnos> no nipple on that one
[00:18:12] <les_w> got to 570 w?m^2
[00:18:22] <les_w> not bad for january
[00:18:23] <SWPadnos> that's not bad
[00:18:31] <les_w> super clear air
[00:18:37] <SWPadnos> isn't the worldwide average ~1KW?
[00:18:52] <les_w> wee get to about 950 in june
[00:18:55] <SWPadnos> (or 2KW outside the atmosphere)
[00:19:02] <SWPadnos> brb - dinner
[00:19:16] <les_w> yeah I would say 1000 at surface is average
[00:19:20] <les_w> k
[00:22:41] <les_w> that has got to be a record...70 degrees with a dewpoint of 12.....that would beat most deserts
[00:24:00] <Jymmm> what is the name of those things that req no pilots license... aero lites?
[00:35:51] <les_w> ultralights
[00:36:35] <les_w> good way to get killed...
[00:36:53] <Jymmm> lol, why?
[00:37:13] <Jymmm> they sounds great!
[00:37:15] <les_w> to be safe it takes a lot of training I think
[00:38:30] <Jymmm> still would be fun
[00:38:55] <Jymmm> you go camping, unpack it take off and enjoy the scenery
[00:39:01] <les_w> I'm not even trained enough to be really safe...and I have thousands of takeoffs and landings
[00:39:11] <les_w> survived engine failure once.
[00:39:44] <les_w> well fly is way fun...of course
[00:40:31] <Jymmm> awesome for photography too
[00:40:35] <les_w> once you get over the "doesn't work like a car" bit it feels like you just have wings. You forget all about the airplane
[00:41:16] <Jymmm> "What, you just hit the brakes and step out." Whats the big deal?
[00:41:35] <les_w> little things like this:
[00:42:08] <les_w> on a takeoff or landing run turn the wheel clockwise...and you go....
[00:42:09] <les_w> left
[00:42:27] <Jymmm> like a motorcycle
[00:43:03] <les_w> well the controls king of reverse at about 60 knots on light aircraft
[00:43:13] <les_w> it's called flying on the backside
[00:43:31] <les_w> pull on yoke...go down
[00:43:45] <Jymmm> down?
[00:43:48] <les_w> yup
[00:44:10] <les_w> at higher speeds the opposite thing happens
[00:44:21] <Jymmm> lol
[00:44:31] <les_w> a big bunch of the training is getting used to that
[00:44:56] <Jymmm> I bet
[00:45:43] <les_w> after a while you forget about it and think differently
[00:46:27] <Jymmm> just like all thigns I'd suspect
[00:46:38] <les_w> right
[00:47:04] <les_w> pitch is airspeed. power is climb
[00:47:07] <les_w> kinda
[00:48:14] <Jymmm> So, gimme the keys to the plane and the avgas card
[00:48:31] <les_w> avgas is really high right now
[00:48:33] <Jymmm> "We dont need no stinking flightplan!"
[00:49:17] <les_w> after learning the basics you find out something....
[00:49:27] <les_w> there is nothing to do
[00:49:34] <les_w> you just sit there really
[00:49:47] <les_w> monitoring systems
[00:50:06] <les_w> often pilots fall asleep
[00:50:24] <Jymmm> that's what "Cruise Control" is for... so you can go to the back of the motorhome and make a sandwich
[00:50:33] <les_w> haha
[00:51:29] <Jymmm> http://www.snopes.com/autos/techno/cruise.asp
[00:51:59] <les_w> so it's kind of weird...you just sit there like a bump on a log...but any second you could hit turbulence and have stuff stick to the ceiling
[00:52:19] <Jymmm> heh
[00:52:33] <les_w> ha
[00:52:54] <les_w> one of the 3 cars on my short list has radar controlled cruise
[00:53:04] <les_w> it tracks the car in front of you
[00:53:25] <Jymmm> seriously?
[00:53:32] <les_w> yeah!
[00:53:37] <les_w> but just for speed
[00:53:37] <Jymmm> jsut for speed though
[00:53:43] <Jymmm> lol
[00:53:56] <les_w> it locks into a certain numer of carlengths distance
[00:54:07] <les_w> number
[00:54:15] <Jymmm> ah, 2 second rule
[00:54:20] <les_w> that is the infiniti q45
[00:55:14] <les_w> I need to buy a car as soon as possible...but since I am doing the CPO thing I have to wait for the right one to come along
[00:55:30] <les_w> I monitor them every morning
[00:56:30] <Jymmm> ...for the last 10 years
[00:56:38] <les_w> the CPO looks good. Car off lease, but a full new car warranty starts when you buy it.
[00:56:54] <les_w> and about half price.
[00:57:31] <les_w> I always bought new cars but this looks better
[00:58:32] <les_w> Lokks new, drives like new, new car warranty. Half price. Works for me.
[00:59:57] <les_w> so the first Lexus Gs 300/420, Infiniti q45, or audi A6 with the right colors and stuff within 150 miles....
[01:00:03] <les_w> I'll grab it.
[01:00:42] <Jymmm> cool.
[01:00:43] <les_w> graphite or dark blue outside....tan inside.
[01:01:08] <Jymmm> My whitewash for filling in the carved didn't turn out too well =(
[01:01:18] <les_w> really
[01:01:39] <les_w> experiment some
[01:01:46] <Jymmm> Yeah, deep color in the deep creavices, but faded near the surface
[01:02:29] <les_w> try a couple coats
[01:02:34] <les_w> I spray it
[01:02:58] <Jymmm> dry, then sand off?
[01:03:50] <les_w> also. put some on...let it half dry and get sticky...then put more on....holds the stuff to the sides...works best with sprayinh
[01:04:16] <les_w> buy one of this spray can things with the glass bottle
[01:04:45] <les_w> forgot the name
[01:04:55] <les_w> sprayit or something
[01:07:50] <les_w> the slathering bit with a rag is only done on raised letter stuff
[01:08:17] <les_w> so the whole panel is coated
[01:08:33] <les_w> after carving it's only on the letters
[01:09:10] <les_w> for v carving spray is best
[01:09:25] <les_w> but can be done with a foam brush with care
[01:09:36] <les_w> couple coats if brush
[01:14:12] <les_w> well, off to the music room for a bit
[01:29:41] <Jymmm> see ya
[03:37:27] <jepler> axis 1.1.1rc4 released:
http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/downloads/01137117659
[03:46:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm waits till emc2 is released
[03:46:28] <Jymmm> tired up upgrading every 30 seconds
[04:16:19] <jepler> rc4 is going to be the only release of the evening, I promise.
[04:19:07] <cradek> thanks jepler for keeping up with everything
[04:23:07] <jepler> cradek: no problem
[04:23:24] <jepler> but if you'll excuse me, I have to feed this cat so she'll leave me alone..
[04:41:25] <Jymmm> jepler NA, it's not axis releases, but EMC ones
[05:03:41] <SWPadnos> has there been an emc release? ;)
[05:05:13] <Jymmm> Once since Paul did all those in two weeks time.
[05:05:21] <Jymmm> I think.
[05:06:55] <SWPadnos> ah - the BDI 4.38 release
[05:07:04] <SWPadnos> that's BDI, not emc(1) or emc2
[05:07:27] <Jymmm> So there's three now?! eeesh
[05:07:34] <SWPadnos> yep
[05:08:00] <Jymmm> so whats different from emc1 and bdi ?
[05:08:27] <SWPadnos> lots of code reorganization, libnml instead of rcslib ...
[05:08:34] <SWPadnos> builds on kernel 2.6
[05:09:12] <Jymmm> But all 3 are based upon debian, not RH?
[05:09:33] <SWPadnos> emc(1) and emc2 are source releases, and aren't dependent on a specific distribution
[05:09:49] <SWPadnos> the BDI is currently debian-based
[05:09:51] <Jymmm> Yeah? Hmmm
[05:10:01] <Jymmm> * Jymmm likes debian
[05:10:06] <SWPadnos> older ones were RH and morphix, I think
[05:10:08] <Jymmm> RH is icky
[05:10:36] <SWPadnos> I'm using Ubuntu onn my "big rig", and may try a Gentoo install as well, since Winblows won't even install on that machine
[05:10:45] <SWPadnos> (on a spare hard drive even)
[05:10:47] <Jymmm> and then two different real time kernels as well, no?
[05:10:53] <SWPadnos> where?
[05:11:09] <Jymmm> rtlinux and soemthign else?
[05:11:18] <SWPadnos> BDI 4.xx use RTAI only, I think - no RTLINUX
[05:11:25] <SWPadnos> ADEOS / RTAI
[05:11:41] <Jymmm> Yeah, I jsut can'tt keep up with it all.
[05:11:54] <djb_rh> * djb_rh takes offense at the "icky" comment!
[05:11:57] <SWPadnos> no problem - you have other things to think about
[05:12:05] <Jymmm> djb_rh goony goo goo
[05:12:13] <SWPadnos> like - if I tell you some restaurant names, can you tell me if they're any good? :)
[05:12:28] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Name and location?
[05:12:30] <SWPadnos> (in San Jose)
[05:12:34] <djb_rh> you've got RH founders hanging around here
[05:12:36] <djb_rh> don't make me hurt you!
[05:12:37] <djb_rh> :)
[05:12:48] <Jymmm> djd say what?
[05:12:48] <jepler> * jepler <-- fedora user, debian user
[05:12:59] <jepler> I like 'em both
[05:13:03] <SWPadnos> 19 Market, Vietnamese (400 South first street)
[05:13:09] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Did you need a list of places or have soem already in mind?
[05:13:11] <SWPadnos> "19 Market"
[05:13:16] <Jymmm> ah
[05:13:22] <djb_rh> Jymmm: I was the first tech employee hired by the two guys who started it
[05:13:35] <djb_rh> they often refer to the three of us and the other two early hires as the founders
[05:13:48] <SWPadnos> I have a list of some places near the convention center, I'd just like to see if they suck or not
[05:13:49] <djb_rh> I went to work every day to an apartment for the first six months
[05:14:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I dont do downtown SJ, except Original Joes, nice, food is good, lil pricey.
[05:14:18] <djb_rh> Marc moved out and three of us took it over with computers until we got thrown out
[05:14:25] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:14:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I like hole-in-the-walls personally.
[05:14:45] <SWPadnos> can you eat at each of these places in the next couple of months, and let me know how they are? ;)
[05:15:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Sure, Insert credit card here --> [ ]
[05:15:13] <jepler> I didn't get started with redhat until 3.0.3, pretty late to the party I guess. (before that I was a big fan of MCC, since it was a lite distribution .. 3 or 4 floppies, compared to that monster SLS)
[05:15:17] <SWPadnos> 1234 5678 9012 3456 exp 00/99
[05:15:21] <djb_rh> I'm sure I'll get used to BDI, but I would prefer it to be RH based
[05:15:31] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Invalid sequence
[05:15:42] <SWPadnos> djb_rh, you should have the knowledge to make an RH-based emc distro (hint hint)
[05:15:45] <djb_rh> jepler: that's pretty damned early...did you ever use the "redneck" install translation in later versions?
[05:15:46] <SWPadnos> :)
[05:15:53] <djb_rh> SWPadnos: oh, I'm quite certain that I do
[05:15:56] <jepler> djb_rh: No, but I remember reading about it
[05:16:05] <djb_rh> I've built more packages than most people have ever friggin used. :)
[05:16:15] <jepler> djb_rh: I would be very excited to see a realtime kernel packaged for fedora. *hint hint*
[05:16:16] <SWPadnos> or installed, even ;)
[05:16:20] <djb_rh> I'll bet
[05:16:24] <djb_rh> you ain't getting it from me
[05:16:25] <djb_rh> :)
[05:16:28] <jepler> awww shucks
[05:16:37] <Jymmm> Told ya RH sucks =)
[05:16:38] <jepler> you mean I wasted my time typing *hint hint*?
[05:16:40] <djb_rh> not any time soon, anyway
[05:16:47] <jepler> next time you're bored, maybe
[05:16:51] <djb_rh> shit, I hate that fucking kernel package
[05:17:07] <SWPadnos> come on, tell us how you really feel
[05:17:09] <djb_rh> I don't much care for how it evolved
[05:17:12] <jepler> I don't blame you; I looked at it once, and my eyes scabbed over
[05:17:28] <djb_rh> the spec file uses macros that didn't even exist when I left RH
[05:17:29] <Jymmm> jepler: Go ahead, you can blame him
[05:18:27] <djb_rh> I much prefer hardware hacking to software
[05:18:40] <Jymmm> djb_rh Anythign specific?
[05:18:55] <djb_rh> well, learning to machine so I can build race car parts
[05:18:58] <djb_rh> that specific enough?
[05:19:05] <djb_rh> that's the current thing, anyway
[05:19:07] <Jymmm> djb_rh oh, that, nm.
[05:19:15] <SWPadnos> you know - it's really annoying when you test and test and test memory, and it never works. but then, when you systematically go through all the BIOS tweaks, you test and test and test, and it never fails.
[05:19:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you using memtest?
[05:19:50] <SWPadnos> yep, repeatedly
[05:19:52] <djb_rh> I spend most of my time driving race cars, though
[05:20:06] <djb_rh> or playing with my kids
[05:20:07] <Jymmm> djd still nm.
[05:20:11] <djb_rh> :)
[05:20:30] <Jymmm> djd when you get to hackign with an electron microscope, drop me a note.
[05:20:55] <djb_rh> heh
[05:20:58] <djb_rh> sure
[05:21:05] <jepler> djb_rh: I only hope you can live up to Jymmm's high standards. Clearly he sets the bar around here.
[05:21:12] <djb_rh> clearly!
[05:21:15] <SWPadnos> old cheerios taste like shit, I've decided
[05:21:23] <SWPadnos> (in case anyone is wondering)
[05:22:06] <jepler> I didn't know they ever didn't not taste unlike shit when new either
[05:22:25] <djb_rh> honey nut cheerios are quite good when fresh
[05:22:29] <djb_rh> in cold milk
[05:22:37] <djb_rh> but plain? shit.
[05:22:37] <SWPadnos> I like them, unless they're supposed to have been eaten 15 months ago
[05:22:43] <Jymmm> lol
[05:22:46] <SWPadnos> yep - that's what I just had
[05:22:56] <Jymmm> jepler: Na, I just want free satellite
[05:23:00] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, this batch of HNC expired in Oct 04
[05:23:22] <SWPadnos> oh well - back in the back of the cabinet they go ;)
[05:23:59] <SWPadnos> has anyone here done much CPU benchmarking (comparing A64 / Opteron / Athlon XP, etc)?
[05:24:24] <Jymmm> * Jymmm has never done AMD
[05:24:37] <SWPadnos> jymmm is a bonehead
[05:25:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I have nfc which is which, they need a better naming convention to be comparable to intel folks
[05:25:28] <SWPadnos> the last Intel CPU I bought (when I had a choice) was a 486DX/25 (overclocked to 33 - w00t!)
[05:25:53] <SWPadnos> I did have to get a couple of Intel based laptops over the years, but that's not necessary any more
[05:26:03] <SWPadnos> like Pentium/A ?
[05:26:24] <Jymmm> I like the Pentium M cpu's....2M L2 Cache on them
[05:26:40] <SWPadnos> how would you know that unless you studied the Intel chip types?
[05:27:09] <Jymmm> I know intel, I dont know AMD. (is there an echo in here)
[05:27:18] <SWPadnos> ie, you studied one language, and expect AMD to conform to that language, rather than you learning AMD's language as well
[05:27:33] <SWPadnos> so - you're a bonehead ;)
[05:27:35] <jepler> SWPadnos: I'd love to see some good benchmarks for the various high-end systems used as compile servers with distccd. I have a feeling that my emplyer's 3 year old dual xeon would look slow by now...
[05:27:45] <SWPadnos> likely
[05:28:13] <SWPadnos> I'm just noticing that a relatively high end Opteron isn't "shockingly" faster than an Athlon XP
[05:28:32] <jepler> SWPadnos: aren't the cache sizes different? I haven't really looked at the details.
[05:28:44] <icee> depends on the workload
[05:28:47] <SWPadnos> yes, the Opteron has 1M per core
[05:28:56] <jepler> anyway, at the high end you double the price and get a 5% performance increase .. or worse
[05:29:05] <SWPadnos> A64FX as well, but A64 is only 512k, I believe
[05:29:10] <SWPadnos> yeah
[05:29:22] <Jymmm> Shit, I want 8M L2 Cache
[05:29:25] <SWPadnos> raw memory performance (as reported by memtest) is 2.3x as fast on the Opteron (dual Opteron)
[05:29:31] <jepler> my last personal machine is sempron 64, but it feels plenty fast
[05:29:41] <SWPadnos> cache transfer speed is only 144%, L2 is 117%
[05:30:04] <SWPadnos> oh - the L1 caches are the same size on both chips - 128k
[05:30:21] <SWPadnos> I definitely see a performance improvement on the dual Opteron
[05:30:33] <SWPadnos> a full kernel compile (2.6.12 or so) takes around 15 minutes
[05:30:34] <djb_rh> dang
[05:30:45] <djb_rh> I missed an HP 16500A for $25 on eBay
[05:31:01] <SWPadnos> with all the modules that are selected by default on Ubuntu
[05:31:11] <SWPadnos> that's a scope mainframe?
[05:31:17] <SWPadnos> or logic analyzer?
[05:31:17] <djb_rh> or logic analyzer
[05:31:21] <djb_rh> it can be both
[05:31:23] <djb_rh> at the same time, even
[05:31:30] <SWPadnos> right - bummer (if it works)
[05:31:37] <djb_rh> cheapest BIN right now is $160
[05:31:43] <djb_rh> yeah
[05:31:49] <SWPadnos> any modules in it?
[05:31:52] <djb_rh> nope
[05:32:07] <djb_rh> all the modules I'd need can be had for under $300, though
[05:32:08] <SWPadnos> that can be a pain, unless there a re a bunch of those on eBay as well
[05:32:13] <SWPadnos> that's cool
[05:32:14] <djb_rh> yeah, they're there
[05:32:20] <djb_rh> pretty regularly, anyway
[05:32:25] <djb_rh> don't know about right *now*
[05:32:45] <djb_rh> sucky part is all the decently priced ones now are also on the west coast
[05:32:48] <djb_rh> that thing is heavy
[05:33:07] <djb_rh> I've already got a Tek LA
[05:33:13] <djb_rh> so I probably don't *need* it
[05:33:26] <SWPadnos> I just bought one of these:
[05:33:30] <SWPadnos> http://www.home.agilent.com/USeng/nav/-536897605.536905493/pd.html?cmpid=90419
[05:33:34] <SWPadnos> the MSO6104A
[05:34:03] <Jymmm> $$$???
[05:34:04] <djb_rh> one of these days I'm gonna switch to an IRC client that doesn't split URLs
[05:34:05] <SWPadnos> I'll sell you a 54622D :)
[05:34:14] <djb_rh> looks nice
[05:34:16] <SWPadnos> yes, roughly 15 thousand of them
[05:34:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos how much was the scope?
[05:34:53] <SWPadnos> $15k
[05:35:07] <djb_rh> how much for the 54622D?
[05:35:11] <SWPadnos> $2k
[05:35:35] <djb_rh> too much for me
[05:35:41] <djb_rh> I'm sure it's worth it
[05:35:51] <djb_rh> I just don't need something that capable
[05:35:52] <SWPadnos> heh - I know it's a bit steep
[05:36:01] <SWPadnos> but I need to pay for the new one, you see ;)
[05:36:04] <djb_rh> heh
[05:36:06] <icee> heh.. i'm happy with my little $1k tektronix DSO
[05:36:12] <Jymmm> what no 99% discount (today only)
[05:36:15] <djb_rh> icee!
[05:36:20] <icee> ahoy djb :)
[05:36:21] <SWPadnos> it's actually a good deal for that model, but it is a pretty high end (though not quite fast enough) scope
[05:36:55] <djb_rh> well, it's been fun, but I gotta work out in the morning
[05:36:57] <djb_rh> 'night
[05:36:59] <jepler> night
[05:37:00] <SWPadnos> see ya
[05:37:07] <Jymmm> G'Night SWPadnos
[05:37:13] <SWPadnos> har har
[05:37:14] <icee> cya djb :)
[05:37:15] <Jymmm> G'Night djb_rh
[05:37:50] <SWPadnos> jepler - is there a compilation task that I could run on the Opteron that would give you an idea of its relative speed?
[05:38:06] <SWPadnos> (like vim or something ;) )
[05:38:41] <jepler> SWPadnos: tough question, since we probably have a very different gcc version on the different machines
[05:38:55] <jepler> (the current xeon is redhat9 with locally built gcc 3.3 I think)
[05:38:59] <SWPadnos> yep - older usually is faster in that regard
[05:39:18] <SWPadnos> I think I have 3.3 or 3.4 on that machine (booting - I'll check in a sec)
[05:39:34] <jepler> SWPadnos: and since we rely heavily on distcc, the load is probably quite different from a machine that is building locally only
[05:40:03] <SWPadnos> does distcc do any caching?
[05:40:07] <jepler> (mostly running cpp and network activity, I think)
[05:40:23] <SWPadnos> what kind of interconnect do you use?
[05:40:28] <jepler> no, ccache does caching, but we don't use it
[05:41:15] <jepler> 100 megabit ethernet to a switch, nothing too beefy. In fact, there's some evidence that the network bandwidth is limiting performance
[05:41:39] <jepler> (we use the 'lzo' option of distcc to compress data to/from the remote machines)
[05:41:49] <SWPadnos> maybe, maybe not - that's enough bandwidth to transfer all of emc2 every second
[05:42:00] <SWPadnos> (I think the checkout I just did was 9M)
[05:42:32] <SWPadnos> with a dozen machines asking for header files, it could be a bottleneck though
[05:42:37] <jepler> I think a typical preprocessed file is well over 1M, we have a lot of headers that are included indiscriminately
[05:42:49] <SWPadnos> (though those should be locally cached anyway)
[05:43:03] <SWPadnos> oh - distcc does the cpp stage on a "server"?
[05:43:10] <jepler> distcc transmits preprocessed source over the network, so there's no opportunity for the remote machine to cache anything
[05:43:15] <jepler> right
[05:43:16] <SWPadnos> bummer
[05:43:30] <jepler> on the other hand, it means you don't have to cross your fingers that nfs is working right today
[05:43:41] <SWPadnos> true
[05:43:53] <jepler> (in fact, the machines don't even have to share a filesystem at all)
[05:43:59] <SWPadnos> that sounds like the bottleneck to me - how many clients per server (and how many servers)?
[05:44:19] <jepler> one server for the office, around a dozen clients
[05:44:43] <SWPadnos> one distcc server? (just to be sure we're talking about the same thing)
[05:44:53] <SWPadnos> shared with other iffice traffic?
[05:44:55] <SWPadnos> office
[05:45:15] <jepler> yeah, it's just on the LAN, nothing special (the clients are just developers' desktops)
[05:45:31] <jepler> all compiles get run on the dual xeon server, which parcels the work out with distcc
[05:45:49] <SWPadnos> ok - I have gcc 4.0.2 on the Opteron
[05:45:52] <SWPadnos> hmm
[05:46:19] <SWPadnos> is that machine also a "general" server (files, print, database, etc)?
[05:46:32] <jepler> files, yes. we don't do much print or database.
[05:46:57] <SWPadnos> I also have gcc 3.4 there, so it would be possible to do relatively similar testing
[05:46:59] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:47:45] <jepler> sure, pick a version of vim, I'l benchmark the same one on this dual opteron later
[05:47:50] <SWPadnos> I can say that compiling emc2 on a BDI install running under VMWare takes about a minute and a half
[05:47:52] <jepler> that'll tell me .. something
[05:48:11] <jepler> I can boot puppy on qemu before I get bored
[05:48:12] <SWPadnos> that's one CPU also
[05:48:53] <jepler> er, on this dual xeon
[05:48:59] <jepler> I don't have a dual opteron, or access to one
[05:50:32] <SWPadnos> I figured you meant that ;)
[05:50:49] <SWPadnos> I just downloaded the big vim6.3 archive
[05:53:35] <jepler> OK
[05:54:32] <SWPadnos> I've got it compiling now. I'll do a make -j4 next
[05:55:05] <SWPadnos> ok, real time 1 minute, 12.147 seconds
[05:56:28] <SWPadnos> make -j4 took 40.391 seconds (after a make clean)
[05:57:20] <jepler> what CPUs are in this machine?
[05:57:32] <jepler> er, one CPU?
[05:57:37] <SWPadnos> dual Opteron 244
[05:57:58] <jepler> next week when I'm back in the office I'll see how my machine does by comparison
[05:58:08] <SWPadnos> single core, not the latest "troy" stepping with the 1GHz HT
[05:58:08] <jepler> thanks for the information
[05:58:13] <SWPadnos> sure
[05:58:39] <SWPadnos> also, far fromthe fastest Opterons out there, by about 1 GHz (and one core :) )
[05:59:12] <jepler> "my" machine is dual xeon 2.8GHz, hyperthreading (4 threads total)
[05:59:36] <SWPadnos> ok - I'd be interested to see what -jn level is teh best on that machine
[05:59:38] <SWPadnos> the
[05:59:51] <jepler> it's bedtime in my timezone. see you later.
[05:59:54] <SWPadnos> usually, double the CPU count is about right (I think)
[05:59:56] <SWPadnos> see you
[06:00:01] <Jymmm> Hasta
[06:00:11] <SWPadnos> 1:00 again
[06:00:21] <SWPadnos> damn - that happens every day
[06:00:41] <Jymmm> SWPadnos for the rest of your unnatural live!
[06:00:43] <Jymmm> life!
[06:00:51] <SWPadnos> live long and prosper
[06:01:03] <Jymmm> Eat shit and die =)
[06:01:15] <Jymmm> wait... wrong movie
[06:01:36] <SWPadnos> I'd write it out, but I can't spell it - just think "Die Hard" :)
[06:01:58] <Jymmm> Yippi Ky Ay Mother Fucker
[06:02:14] <SWPadnos> yeah -that (however it's supposed to be spelled0
[06:02:32] <Jymmm> Say G'Night Gracy
[06:03:10] <SWPadnos> damn - this friggin memory won't fail any more
[06:03:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos thermal?
[06:03:29] <Jymmm> reseat em
[06:03:43] <SWPadnos> could be, but it's been pretty warm the last couple of days
[06:03:52] <SWPadnos> they've been reseated numerous times
[06:03:58] <Jymmm> let the test run all night
[06:04:15] <SWPadnos> I have only one module in the machine now, but this one and the other both failed singly as well as together
[06:04:31] <Jymmm> matched pairs?
[06:04:38] <SWPadnos> I've been letting it go around an hour each time - roughly 2.5 full test runs
[06:04:41] <SWPadnos> yes
[06:05:17] <SWPadnos> Geil Ultra-X
[06:05:28] <Jymmm> Then let it run all nite...
[06:05:37] <SWPadnos> the real pisser is that the memory is DDR400, and the machine is only DDR333, so it should be able to keep up
[06:05:59] <Jymmm> are the slots in a tight spot?
[06:06:09] <SWPadnos> and it's 2-5-2-2-1T at DDR400
[06:06:25] <SWPadnos> two are, but I've tried the modules in all slots (I suspected the MB)
[06:06:26] <Jymmm> oh, your tweeking your bios settings too?
[06:06:39] <Jymmm> current bios?
[06:06:45] <SWPadnos> yes - just trying to get it to work (or fail in this case)
[06:06:55] <SWPadnos> as current as this Abit AT-7 can get
[06:07:02] <SWPadnos> AT7 Max, actually
[06:07:26] <Jymmm> Did it fail BEFORE you tweaked the bios?
[06:07:28] <SWPadnos> remember that - the first "legacy free" motherboard, no PS/2 connectors, just a dozen USB
[06:07:50] <SWPadnos> I had replaced the CPU and RAM (because my wife's machine died, and she needed it)
[06:07:59] <SWPadnos> and it had been fine before that
[06:08:27] <Jymmm> so this is new memoery for the mobo?
[06:08:37] <SWPadnos> it's a 2-3 year old KT-333A motherboard, but it has everything (except for PCIe)
[06:08:39] <SWPadnos> yes
[06:08:47] <SWPadnos> brand new, along with a new CPU
[06:08:51] <Jymmm> did you buy the memory online or a local store?
[06:08:53] <SWPadnos> NewEgg
[06:09:06] <SWPadnos> (online)
[06:09:16] <Jymmm> well, if you just SUSPECT the memory, get them to replace it
[06:09:30] <SWPadnos> I can definitely RMA it if necessary, but I can't test in any other machine at the moment
[06:09:42] <SWPadnos> I'd rather replace the MB if necessary, so I want to test more
[06:10:12] <SWPadnos> A new MB is $60-$150, so it's not that big a deal, as long as the memory is compatible
[06:10:19] <Jymmm> If it worked fine with the old memory, it's either a seating issue, or a bad module. Either way get it repalced befor ethe rma period expires
[06:10:32] <SWPadnos> I like the CPU - I used a mobile one, so it only uses 30 watts or so
[06:11:07] <SWPadnos> sorry - the old memory was put into my wife's machine, I got hers (and her CPU), because I didn't have time to see what was the problem
[06:11:12] <SWPadnos> I then replaced both CPU and memory
[06:11:35] <SWPadnos> so the MB had worked before, but the mem and CPU are new, purchased at the same time
[06:11:55] <Jymmm> Still, it worked bofore the brand new stuff... I'd get it replaced. Not worth the hassel of semi faulty ram
[06:12:11] <SWPadnos> the RMA period is lifetime warrantee, so I'm covered there
[06:12:34] <SWPadnos> the CPU RMA period has already expired, I think (had to get an OEM CPU)
[06:12:43] <Jymmm> Well, maybe you need to return it for a new mobo you want to get.
[06:12:52] <SWPadnos> heh - I'd still need memory ;)
[06:13:01] <Jymmm> right,but maybe different specs
[06:13:07] <Jymmm> JAS...
[06:13:43] <SWPadnos> true
[06:13:49] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Just fyi, I got goos service from these folks -->
http://www.oempcworld.com/mmatrix.htm
[06:14:10] <Jymmm> they even buyback old memoery (but you could probably get better for it on ebay)
[06:15:09] <SWPadnos> eeeeeewwwww - cas3
[06:15:44] <Jymmm> They're local to me, so I can walk in the door to pick up an order.
[06:16:12] <SWPadnos> that's a plus
[06:16:48] <Jymmm> The owner is knowledable too.
[06:16:54] <Jymmm> Nice guy.
[06:17:01] <SWPadnos> I'd probably be bankrupt if there were a Fry's or MicroCenter near me
[06:17:10] <Jymmm> lol
[06:17:20] <Jymmm> oh hang on....
[06:17:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Somethign for you to foam at the mouth on then --->
http://www.frys-electronics-ads.com/
[06:18:48] <SWPadnos> heh
[06:22:26] <Jymmm> I just noticed that he doesn't have ALL the items that are on sale listed. But usually he does.
[06:23:09] <SWPadnos> I don't even know where the closest Fry's is
[06:23:23] <SWPadnos> is there one in Boston?
[06:23:52] <Jymmm> Ill Ga and Indiana
[06:24:45] <SWPadnos> well - I can visit the one near Houston in a month, but that's the closest I'll be for a while
[06:25:35] <Jymmm> and you can see the ads before you walk in the door. But be sure to check the ads before shopping. Usually they have them hung up near the front door
[06:26:15] <Jymmm> The "main" ad is Friday to Mon|Tues, another one Wed to Thru.
[06:26:24] <SWPadnos> I'll try to convince my wife that going there is a good idea :)
[06:26:51] <Jymmm> SWPadnos If you buy, only pay woth a CC, no cash or check.
[06:27:03] <SWPadnos> I generally do - but why?
[06:27:05] <Jymmm> no ATM either
[06:27:16] <Jymmm> Theire return policys
[06:27:19] <SWPadnos> ah
[06:27:36] <Jymmm> Plus if they give you any shit, you can call your CC company as well
[06:27:58] <SWPadnos> true
[06:27:58] <Jymmm> Fry's in the place you love to hate.
[06:28:14] <Jymmm> You have to know the game
[06:28:22] <SWPadnos> I nearly got a gigabit hub for my sister there, but it was just a little too expensive for her
[06:28:24] <SWPadnos> yep
[06:28:30] <Jymmm> I bought a MP# player for my gf for xmas
[06:28:55] <Jymmm> I was told by two ppl that the return for christmas gifts was 15 days after xmas (Jan 9th)
[06:29:12] <Jymmm> I returne dthe mp3 player on Jan 9th, they said Jan 5th
[06:29:24] <SWPadnos> bummer
[06:29:57] <Jymmm> Well, I said they person got an ipod and I was told by two ppl 15 days after, they finally gave my money back.
[06:30:07] <Jymmm> But you have to know the game
[06:30:33] <SWPadnos> I usually take names - that scares them when you come back
[06:30:37] <Jymmm> They get all kinds in there, so they hear everything.... begging or getting pissed off will NOT get you anywhere.
[06:30:40] <SWPadnos> dates/times too
[06:30:57] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Fuck no.... dont work casue they have so many come thru the door it doens't matter.
[06:31:43] <Jymmm> You have to realize that Fry's probably does $50K in returns a day
[06:32:02] <SWPadnos> usually, if you say "billy told me last Tuesday ..."m they realize that you have your shit together
[06:32:03] <Jymmm> Just imagien the sales per day
[06:32:17] <Jymmm> Nah, it's Fry's
[06:32:27] <Jymmm> You just have to play the game is all
[06:32:57] <SWPadnos> my sister actually returned her hot chocolate at the cafe :)
[06:33:12] <Jymmm> See that's why ppl hate fry's... your thinking is what others think too. but they just dont care.
[06:33:19] <SWPadnos> (the milk was bad, but strangely she didn't notice until she was almost done :) )
[06:33:27] <Jymmm> Sure, why though, cold? icky?
[06:33:33] <Jymmm> ah
[06:33:39] <SWPadnos> rotten milk
[06:33:47] <SWPadnos> makes it taste bad
[06:33:52] <Jymmm> Well any food place will comp a bad meal
[06:34:12] <SWPadnos> I love this BIOS Setting "Enhance For Benchmark" (enabve / disable)
[06:34:17] <SWPadnos> enable
[06:34:48] <Jymmm> lol
[06:35:11] <SWPadnos> odd - with 2 DIMMS, the transfer rate is lower
[06:35:16] <SWPadnos> with identical settings
[06:35:33] <SWPadnos> (not a dual-channel board, but I'd expect the same rate)
[06:36:26] <Jymmm> Been an admin too long to actualyl care anymore. I just buy a faster box
[06:36:40] <Jymmm> if it's stable, I'm happy
[06:36:54] <SWPadnos> I'm going for stability here :)
[06:37:02] <Jymmm> this box is 6+ years old
[06:37:04] <SWPadnos> I don't generally overclock
[06:37:16] <SWPadnos> I'm using a 5-yo box for day-to-day work as well
[06:37:46] <SWPadnos> though I have upgraded the memory, replaced the hard drive (had an IBM DeathStar), and replaced the video card
[06:37:47] <Jymmm> brb coffee
[06:37:49] <SWPadnos> ok
[06:39:01] <SWPadnos> actually - I'm off to bed
[06:39:16] <SWPadnos> this stupid thing is working at the fastest settings now (with both modules installed)
[06:39:22] <SWPadnos> so now I'll let it run overnight
[06:39:26] <SWPadnos> see you later
[06:39:30] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[06:41:56] <Jymmm> lol
[06:42:01] <Jymmm> G'Night SWP_Away =)
[06:43:06] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[06:43:06] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[06:43:09] <ValarQ> morning folks
[06:47:35] <Jymmm> mornin
[06:47:54] <Jymmm> http://giles.fatboylan.net/gallery/albums/misc/500kV_line_opened_under_load.mpg
[06:49:23] <ValarQ> mighty
[06:49:27] <Jymmm> heh
[07:46:26] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[07:46:26] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[09:32:25] <Jacky^> morning
[11:09:32] <alex_jon1> hey Jacky^
[11:10:14] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[23:16:40] <alex_joni> night all
[23:25:27] <Jacky^> G nite alex_joni