#emc | Logs for 2006-04-12

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[00:46:58] <Jymmm> jepler cool
[01:54:33] <_terr> back what a fscking job. Some asshole tow truck driver tore my Audi apart trying to take the spare tire out. It is so fsking simple to do - now I have missing peices adn borken pieces
[01:55:03] <_terr> Then my bumper has been borken and fixed and I borke it again while installing it because the damn thing wasn't fixed right.
[01:56:17] <_terr> and I can't get teh oil bung out either because the last guy who did an oil change torqued it down with a swing handle.
[02:24:35] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/Submakefile: workaround for ICE in bdi2's egcs
[02:25:35] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/debian/control: build now requires msgmerge
[02:26:55] <jepler> (and that log message is wrong, but who's checking)
[03:00:01] <_terr> anyone home?
[03:00:27] <jmkasunich> nobody here at all
[03:00:47] <_terr> I'm a little pissed off right now. I should be fsking mad
[10:38:00] <Bo^Dick> i'd like to know stuff about stepper motors. what holding torque is recommended for a medium sized cnc machine stepper motor?
[10:41:37] <Bo^Dick> btw, do the stepper usually have the same value of holding torque as rotating torque?
[13:55:50] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[15:32:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> Which page do you "log into" to get edit permissions in the wiki? becuase http://www.linuxcnc.org/administrator/ doesn't seem to work with emc as pw.
[15:33:48] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?action=editprefs
[15:35:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra> any username and emc as password?
[15:35:46] <fenn> emc is the administrator password
[15:35:56] <fenn> i dont think user password matters at all
[15:36:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[15:37:18] <fenn> ok 50 windows open.. time to close some windows
[15:39:32] <jepler> fenn: that happens to me all the time
[15:39:43] <bill2or3> yay: http://photos.xmission.com/bill/v/machining/delrin-nut.png.html
[15:39:54] <fenn> usually i just keep opening windows until the box crashes :P
[15:40:32] <cradek> bill2or3: cool, did you make that? I have similar leadnuts
[15:40:36] <cradek> bill2or3: is it acme?
[15:40:39] <bill2or3> yeah, finished it last night.
[15:40:57] <bill2or3> It matches the screws I have, you can see them in another pic in that same gallery.
[15:41:13] <fenn> how much force does it take to compress the spring?
[15:41:33] <bill2or3> not enough, I need to find a better spring.
[15:41:51] <fenn> i was planning on going with a one-piece o-ring based design, but it wouldnt be as adjustable as the two piece design
[15:42:15] <bill2or3> you mean using O-rings to squeeze it?
[15:42:35] <fenn> yeah just make an oversized groove next to the end
[15:42:38] <cradek> what is that, 3/4-8 ? that's huge
[15:42:46] <bill2or3> that seems like the pressure would change over time, as the o-ring stretched.
[15:43:00] <bill2or3> .8 in I think
[15:49:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/debian/ (changelog emc2-dev.files emc2.files postinst rules):
[15:49:19] <CIA-8> on the release branch, these should match exactly what's being used for
[15:49:19] <CIA-8> building the packages so anyone can build them.
[15:57:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:25] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:25] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (stepper_inch.ini stepper_mm.ini): turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:26] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:27] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:30] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/minitetra.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:33] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:36] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:39] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:45] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:50] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/etch.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:58:53] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_0_branch * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini: turn off debug and set ncfiles path in all configs for release
[15:59:05] <cradek> yuck
[15:59:18] <Jymmm> is it done?
[16:00:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra> CIA-8 is a bot I take it?
[16:00:59] <Jymmm> cradek do you have more to submit?
[16:01:01] <cradek> yes, it tells us what changes are being made in the source, helps us collaborate
[16:01:06] <cradek> Jymmm: not right now
[16:01:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra> changes in the cvs, posted live?
[16:01:27] <cradek> yes
[16:01:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> awesome! :D
[16:01:38] <cradek> you can get emails by subscribing to the emc-commit list, too
[16:02:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> I take it the cvs repository is publicly available as well?
[16:02:59] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes
[16:03:17] <fenn> * fenn is wondering how to _not_ get emails from emc-commit
[16:03:50] <cradek> fenn: now, you can just unsubscribe, with no ill effects
[16:03:59] <fenn> that works
[16:04:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra> * Lerneaen_Hydra enjoys the OSS-ness of emc
[16:04:44] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: me too, we're very dedicated to the openness
[16:05:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra> its good to know that there are people that still have such ideals *eyes closed source proprietary companies*
[16:06:16] <cradek> it helps our software be better
[16:06:20] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: more info on our CVS is here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CVS
[16:06:29] <approx> why emc outputs ony about 12.5kHz step pulsing when I set period to 100kHz?
[16:06:44] <approx> it seems that step pulse length is 40us
[16:07:33] <fenn> what are your setup and hold times? (in the ini)
[16:07:59] <approx> hold times?
[16:08:11] <fenn> oops thats not there anymore
[16:08:18] <jepler> approx: are you using emc1 or emc2?
[16:08:28] <approx> emc1 on bdi
[16:08:44] <jepler> approx: in the emc1 default stepper configurations, the .ini has lines that control the SETUP_TIME and HOLD_TIME of the stepper pulses
[16:08:47] <jepler> SETUP_TIME = 2
[16:08:48] <jepler> HOLD_TIME = 3
[16:08:58] <fenn> i think those only apply when reversing directions though?
[16:09:05] <approx> hmm
[16:09:22] <approx> should I put those in EMCMOT section?
[16:10:03] <jepler> approx: No, there's one per [AXIS_n] section
[16:10:10] <approx> I'll try
[16:10:11] <fenn> dont do that
[16:10:28] <jepler> From the wiki: "setup time is how many periods emc waits after a direction change, before outputting a step pulse hold_time is how many periods the step is kept active"
[16:10:31] <fenn> setup and hold introduces a delay of n cycles to allow the driver electronics time to stabilize
[16:10:39] <jepler> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?EMC1
[16:10:48] <fenn> i thought that might be what slowed your pulses down
[16:11:03] <jepler> decreasing HOLD_TIME may be what you want to try
[16:11:11] <approx> my drives can follow 500ns pulses
[16:11:26] <jepler> then try HOLD_TIME 0 (no extra cycles)
[16:13:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> In the EMC2 config slector, what is the difference between the simulated environments of axis, mill, and tkemc?
[16:14:03] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: those are different GUIs only
[16:14:06] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: Axis, Mini, and Tkemc are 3 different GUIs
[16:14:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra> so only aesthetic differences?
[16:14:30] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: not really, they all have different features, try them all
[16:14:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ok
[16:14:56] <jepler> and once you've seen them all, stick with Axis
[16:15:03] <cradek> haha
[16:15:59] <jepler> (I'm one of the authors of Axis so I'll be hurt if you use one of the others)
[16:16:01] <SkunkWorks> <bo^dick> where the heck is a normal 1/4 watt resister symble in eagles library? </bo^dick>
[16:16:23] <cradek> rcl
[16:16:53] <SkunkWorks> nice - thanks much. duh
[16:17:47] <Bo^Dick> how much torque does your stepper motors give (you guys who use steppers and not servos) in your cnc setup?
[16:18:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> is there any easy way to get an axis-like gui in a "real" milling environment (the stepper_mm and hexapod had the simple axis + co ordinate display only)
[16:18:04] <cradek> "plenty"
[16:18:32] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: You have to edit the .ini file
[16:19:02] <approx> jepler, fenn: thanks! it worked, pulse times are shorter now :)
[16:19:03] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: In the section [DISPLAY] there a line DISPLAY = ...
[16:19:11] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[16:19:13] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: Just change it from whatever it says to "axis"
[16:19:20] <jepler> approx: you're welcome.
[16:19:21] <approx> now if i could only make axis working..
[16:19:22] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: to make a custom configuration, start with these instructions: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[16:19:23] <fenn> approx: hm that's not what i expected
[16:19:35] <fenn> means the setup/hold code is wrong
[16:19:50] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: yes, you should follow cradek's suggestion to only modify a copy of the sample configuration
[16:20:10] <jepler> fenn: emc2 handles it totally differently, so I wouldn't sweat it
[16:20:43] <fenn> cradek: i really think emc should open a "save config as" dialog the first time you run emc
[16:20:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra> why so, it's relativly easy to do a apt-get remove and then apt-get install
[16:21:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra> although it will wipe your other settings
[16:21:47] <jepler> fenn: in emc2, stepgen has these parameters (for each step generator): dirhold dirsetup steplen stepspace
[16:21:50] <fenn> especially since you need to put it in a particular (non obvious) directory
[16:22:08] <jepler> fenn: so you can specify the length of the step pulse, the length it must be off, and how long the direction signal has to be set before or held after a step pulse
[16:22:39] <fenn> so hold_time is supposed to apply to every pulse?
[16:23:16] <jepler> fenn: honestly? I'm not 100% sure what emc1 does, particularly the version on bdi.
[16:24:30] <jepler> fenn: I think that emc1 HOLD_TIME would be roughly like emc2's steplen: how long the step signal will be asserted.
[16:25:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: should one download/install the seperate axis environment? becuase changing the ini to axis still starts it with tkemc gui
[16:27:25] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: that's strange. If choosing /etc/emc2/sample-configs/sim/axis.ini displayed the Axis GUI, then I don't see why it wouldn't work when you specify "DISPLAY = axis" in another ini file
[16:27:43] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: emc2-axis is a separate package from emc2, but both are installed on ubuntu when you use cradek's script
[16:29:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra> ah, ok. yes that is strange. I'm editing line 36 of the standard stepper_mm.ini. (it was set to axis by default) but loaded the yellow-on-blue tkemc gui. When starting the axis sim it loads fine.
[16:29:41] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: I'm looking at that file now
[16:29:43] <approx> it seems that emc still uses two period lengths for step pulse even when I have SETUP_TIME=0 and HOLD_TIME=0
[16:29:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: otherwise my breezy installation is completely clean, no other apps installed (except the pre-installed ones), only updates.
[16:29:59] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: The "#" at the beginning of some of those lines means they're comments (ignored by the computer)
[16:30:00] <approx> I get 10us pulses when period 5us
[16:30:13] <cradek> approx: you need two periods to make a pulse: one on, one off
[16:30:28] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: in the version I have, line 36 is commented out, and line 41 (which selects tkemc, the blue one) has no "#" so it is used.
[16:30:32] <approx> yep, but this has two periods for ON time
[16:31:00] <approx> checked with scope
[16:31:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: *headsmack* sorry, I didn't notice that
[16:31:21] <cradek> approx: we won't be much more help with the bdi4emc version: you will probably have to ask on the bdi4 list.
[16:31:33] <approx> ok
[16:31:45] <SkunkWorks> approx: it has been a few weeks but I think when I had scoped the pulse I was getting a 5us pulse when my period was set to 5us
[16:31:54] <approx> i'll try ubuntu as soon as its downloaded
[16:31:59] <cradek> SkunkWorks: in bdi4emc or emc2?
[16:32:03] <jepler> approx: you can find a link to the bdi4emc mailing list on this page: http://ourproject.org/moin/projects/bdi4emc
[16:32:08] <SkunkWorks> emc2 ubuntu
[16:32:26] <cradek> SkunkWorks: it wouldn't surprise me if emc2 is more right in this regard
[16:32:43] <jepler> approx: but if you don't have a lot of time invested in bdi4, then try ubuntu and see which one works better for you
[16:32:56] <approx> downloading right now :)
[16:32:59] <SkunkWorks> that is how I put 2 and 2 togather as far as the period being the on pulse width ;)
[16:33:18] <SkunkWorks> little slow some times ;)
[16:33:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: I can make a Swedish translation of axis if that would be of interest
[16:34:30] <approx> why does emc use whole period for on time anyway? i think mach uses only very short pulses that are generated in single period
[16:34:47] <approx> 1us or so
[16:34:57] <cradek> approx: for picky drives
[16:35:11] <approx> faster option would be nice
[16:35:16] <cradek> I agree
[16:35:23] <approx> that would double pulse freq
[16:36:12] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07maint1_2 * 10axis/debian/changelog: as packaged
[16:36:34] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07maint1_2 * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: add calibration to the menu
[16:37:04] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: a swedish translation would be terrific
[16:37:43] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: http://axis.unpy.net/translations
[16:37:46] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: Do you know how to edit unix-style "po files"?
[16:37:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra> cradek: I could do other translation work for other things related to EMC if that would be of interest as well
[16:38:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: not at the moment, however I should be able to figure out how ;)
[16:38:40] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: OK. You can do it by editing the text file, but the programs "gtranslator" and "kbabel" are GUI applications to make it easier.
[16:39:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra> are they in the standard apt repositories (or in uni/multiverse)?
[16:39:20] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: yeah, I got them with apt-get
[16:39:38] <jepler> I have all the repositories enabled, so it might have been from universe
[16:39:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: Ok, I'll test getting that, where can I get the po files?
[16:40:03] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: sudo apt-get build-dep emc2-axis; apt-get source emc2-axis
[16:40:26] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: The .po files are in the 'i18n' subdirectory of the emc2-axis source
[16:43:09] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: to test changes to a .po file, first run 'make' in the i18n subdirectory, then 'sudo python setup.py install' in the emc2-axis directory, then run emc with LANGUAGE set accordingly.
[16:44:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: I'll test that soon, dinner now ;)
[16:44:48] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra: if you run into trouble, feel free to ask me questions. cradek is another good source of help on building axis.
[16:44:54] <jepler> (we're co-authors of axis)
[16:45:03] <jepler> have a good dinner
[16:45:05] <jepler> it's nearly lunchtime here
[16:45:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: Ok, thanks for the information.
[16:45:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra> jepler: Ah, the wonderful bliss of timezones and a round planet
[16:46:49] <jepler> yep
[16:53:48] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_motenc.c: fix deceptive error return codes
[17:09:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> test
[17:10:47] <Roguish_> Roguish_ is now known as Roguish
[17:17:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jog increment, is that the amount to move in a certain axis when pressing a button (page up for +Z movement)
[17:17:36] <cradek> yes
[17:17:46] <cradek> continuous jogs for as long as you hold the button, but incremental jog moves the set amount
[17:19:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> hwo do you change the jog speed?
[17:19:49] <cradek> using the feed override slider
[17:20:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok.
[17:20:24] <SkunkWorks> you can set the default feedrate speed in the ini file.
[17:20:55] <SkunkWorks> I think it is called default_velocity or something like that. in the traj section?
[17:21:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok. Can there be issues with a longer text in a translation breaking the GUI?
[17:21:11] <cradek> that's right
[17:21:44] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra: AXIS is pretty good at enlarging correctly to fit the text (see the picture of the german translation for an extreme example)
[17:22:14] <cradek> I guess I suggest you make the strings as short as possible without sacrificing clarity
[17:24:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok. Is there any way to see text in it's context, as some texts are rather cryptic?
[17:24:34] <cradek> probably just by running axis and looking through the menus etc
[17:24:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[17:24:44] <cradek> also beware of the keyboard accelerators specified by the _
[17:25:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> what do you mean?
[17:25:04] <cradek> you can reassign them, but you have to watch the context (other entries on the menu for example) to make sure you don't duplicate any
[17:25:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[17:25:31] <cradek> so it's best to do the translation while looking at the running program, to help you keep track of all those things
[17:25:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I don't see any _ under any charchters while translating strings
[17:26:23] <cradek> for example look at File:
[17:26:26] <cradek> #: ../tcl/axis.tcl:352
[17:26:26] <cradek> msgid "_File"
[17:26:26] <cradek> msgstr "_Datei"
[17:26:32] <cradek> this is from the german translation
[17:26:43] <cradek> the leading _ means the key shortcut
[17:26:57] <cradek> so in english, alt-F gives you the file menu, but in german, it's alt-D because alt-F wouldn't make any sense
[17:27:40] <cradek> but the german translator has to look at everything else on the File menu and not use D as a shortcut anywhere else
[17:28:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok. is the _ visible in gtranslator when applicable?
[17:28:23] <cradek> not everything has a key shortcut, but for what does, you should put one in your translated string too
[17:28:41] <cradek> I haven't used gtranslator unfortunately
[17:29:03] <cradek> but I am sure it has some method for manipulating those, it's an important part of the translator's job
[17:29:15] <cradek> can you find "File" and look at it?
[17:30:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> yes it shows the string in teh same way as the text file
[17:30:55] <cradek> great
[17:31:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> with a _ preceding the charachter
[17:31:28] <cradek> ok so just be careful to put a _ in your translated string, and watch the other things on the menu like I explained
[17:32:15] <cradek> we really appreciate the translation help - every translation opens up emc to a lot of new users.
[17:34:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I'm glad to help. :) I assume that one can do things like F_ile to have the i as the shortkey character?
[17:34:21] <cradek> yes you can put the _ before any letter
[17:34:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> And it applies to the letter following it?
[17:34:44] <cradek> yes
[17:36:50] <cradek> fenn: do you read japanese?
[17:37:02] <fenn> ostensibly
[17:37:14] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/tkemc-ja.png
[17:37:19] <cradek> is this at all right?
[17:37:22] <fenn> * fenn makes note to remember if he's in an ssh session or not before typing sudo poweroff
[17:37:43] <fenn> that's my translation so i can't really say whether it's right or not
[17:37:44] <cradek> fenn: we've all done that!
[17:37:59] <cradek> ok that's not what I'm asking
[17:38:05] <cradek> I'm asking whether it looks like you intended :-)
[17:38:08] <fenn> 'fu' for file and 'ku' for script? you mean?
[17:38:26] <fenn> i dont know how to pick which letter is underlined
[17:39:02] <cradek> jepler says he thinks it's common to put [File in japanese] (_F_)
[17:39:11] <cradek> with an english F showing the shortcut
[17:39:16] <fenn> ok
[17:39:21] <cradek> but beware I don't know anything about it
[17:39:33] <fenn> me either
[17:39:44] <cradek> but it does look how you intended then, that's all I was asking
[17:40:04] <cradek> I can look at the other languages and see if they look "reasonable" but the japanese could be totally wrong characters everywhere and I wouldn't know
[17:40:51] <fenn> well there's a kanji underlined, so that's not gonna work
[17:41:01] <cradek> hmm yeah
[17:41:01] <fenn> you cant really type kanji with one button-press
[17:42:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "send active axis home" does that move a selected axis to a predefined home position?
[17:42:26] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: yes, it moves to the home switch or position
[17:43:19] <cradek> the other one, Offset, means to leave the axis in place, but set this place as its zero position
[17:43:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "set g54 offset for active axis" is that to change the value of g54 or apply a predefined one?
[17:43:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, so when measuring in a new peice of material one uses that commadn once for each axis?
[17:44:18] <cradek> yes, if you want to set an offset origin to somewhere on the piece
[17:44:40] <cradek> often you set a Z offset so Z=0 is the top of the workpiece, for instance
[17:44:53] <bill2or3> do machines ever have multiple home switches, per axis?
[17:44:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> typically in translations, should one try to stay with a word-for-word translation or a contextual translation?
[17:45:17] <cradek> bill2or3: I'm pretty sure emc doesn't do that
[17:45:36] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I'll leave that to your experience, I'm monolingual
[17:45:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> In swedish at least it would be more common to say "use current position as G54 for chosen axis"
[17:46:10] <fenn> the original english messages dont make sense eithre
[17:46:34] <fenn> and when you're translating a .po file it isnt really obvious what it actually means
[17:46:45] <cradek> I think the offset is a difficult concept to express clearly
[17:47:03] <cradek> you should make the concept as clear as possible - it doesn't matter what the english says
[17:47:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[17:47:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> lets just hope I understand the concept ;)
[17:47:21] <cradek> :-)
[17:47:26] <cradek> ask more questions if not
[17:48:17] <jepler> fenn, cradek: without changing tkemc, you probably can't change the index of the character that is underlined
[17:48:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I'll try to clarify as well then, such as "set g54 offset for active axis" becomes "use current position as G54 for chosen axis"
[17:49:52] <cradek> I think you want the word origin, offset, or zero in there
[17:50:09] <cradek> g54 is a coordinate system which can have its origin anywhere in the "world" coordinate system (the one established by homing)
[17:50:40] <cradek> with the offset button, you are setting up the relationship (offsets) between the g54 coordinate system and the world coordinate system
[17:51:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I beleive it is the same as the G54 used in that lathe I use
[17:51:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> use current position as G54 offset for chosen axis?
[17:52:09] <cradek> yes I think that's very clear
[17:52:18] <cradek> offset or origin, either works in that place
[17:52:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> lets just hope we dont have gui breakage
[17:52:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> offset is easier in swedish
[17:52:56] <cradek> since that's a tooltip, there isn't such a worry about the string's length
[17:53:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> at least more commonly used in daily CNC speech
[17:53:11] <cradek> you'll have to make a shorter version for the button itself
[17:54:36] <cradek> I will be away for a while, thanks again Lerneaen_Hydra_
[17:55:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> sure
[17:58:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Is stop program the same thing as abort program?
[18:01:32] <jepler> "Emergency Stop" and "Stop" are different. Stop (the rectangular blue button) leaves the motors active but stops moving and probably stops the spindle
[18:01:39] <jepler> "Emergency stop" shuts off the motors and the spindle.
[18:02:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: But would stop program be similar to abort program?
[18:02:14] <jepler> "Stop" is called "abort" in emc and maybe in some of the other front-ends.
[18:02:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: or cancel perhaps
[18:02:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[18:02:41] <jepler> I wouldn't use "cancel".
[18:03:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> the NC mill and lathe that I use use "cancel" for stopping programs, in swedish cancel is more of a abort/cancel type word, something in between
[18:04:59] <jepler> The reason I suggest not using "cancel" is that "cancel" already has a particular meaning (in the pop-up windows that have two buttons: OK and Cancel)
[18:05:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> hmm.. a valid point
[18:05:14] <jepler> if you think this word is the right one to use, then use it.
[18:06:12] <Roguish> cradek & jepler: thanks for the help. check this: http://www.kreysler.com/about/facility/gantrylarge.jpg i just finished this project.
[18:06:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I'll keep it for the moment. "turn spindle clockwise" by turrn is it meant a lathe-type turning or a "power up spinle"?
[18:06:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Roguish: Thats rather large. Is that foam you're cutting?
[18:07:55] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: Yes, it makes the spindle move. There's "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" because some spindles can turn either direction.
[18:08:01] <Roguish> yes, it is an architectural composite company. 25' x 12' x 5' working
[18:08:15] <jepler> Roguish: holy cow, you're not going to run that with emc are you?
[18:08:21] <giacus> giacus is now known as giacus_afk
[18:08:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "more quickly/more slowly" is that an absolute speed or does it make the spindle spin faster or slower than the current speed?
[18:09:00] <Roguish> not yet. it is run via Flashcut. but the client has plans to add a 4th and 5th axis and convert to emc2
[18:09:14] <jepler> Roguish: you should enter the "biggest emc mill" contest when it's done.
[18:09:47] <Roguish> that is small next to a machine i did a few years ago. i do the mechanical.
[18:09:51] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I believe that each time you click that button / press that key, the spindle speed changes by some increment.
[18:10:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[18:10:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "%d" is that some program variable?
[18:10:51] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: %d is replaced with an integer number. Somewhere in your 'translation', you should also have "%d".
[18:11:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> that shouldn't be translated I suppose?
[18:11:43] <jepler> Here's an example from the italian translation:
[18:11:43] <jepler> it.po:msgid "Tool %d, offset %g, diameter %g"
[18:11:43] <jepler> it.po:msgstr "Utensile %d, offset %g, diametro %g"
[18:11:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[18:12:16] <jepler> %g is a number with a fractional part
[18:12:22] <jepler> this is similar to "printf" if you've ever programmed in C.
[18:12:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> alas, I have not, though I plan to at some point in the future
[18:13:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> "Exit code %d" what does that mean?
[18:14:03] <jepler> It appears that these are the different % letters used in axis: %d = integer number, %g = number with decimal fraction, %s = string (any sequence of letters)
[18:14:39] <jepler> If there's more than one, they have to be in the same order in the translated text (unfortunately)
[18:22:14] <Jymmm> You know what pisses me off... The sheer cost of LED strips!
[18:23:09] <fenn> woah-wee that's a big gantry mill
[18:23:41] <bill2or3> led strips? like the smd led's mounted on little strips of pcb? or the flexible kind?
[18:23:53] <Jymmm> bill2or3 any of them...
[18:24:13] <Jymmm> it's like a $1/in and up
[18:25:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> IIRC lcd screens can be had for cheap
[18:25:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I got a 16x2 charchter one for 1$2
[18:25:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> *$12
[18:26:04] <Jymmm> Hell, I can buy 2 12" CCFL tubes, inverter, switch, and connectors for $5
[18:26:14] <Jymmm> Not LCD, LED
[18:26:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> would LCD work, or does it have to be led?
[18:26:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> there are ones with backlightning
[18:26:46] <Jymmm> LCD display (like in laptops) use CCFL lighting
[18:27:10] <Jymmm> 2x16 LCD displays use EL lighting
[18:27:18] <Jymmm> some use LED
[18:27:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> and you dont want that/can't use that?
[18:28:32] <Jymmm> I WANT LED because of spacing and thermal (or lack there of); CCFL inverter is somewhat bulky and needs cooling/ventelation.
[18:32:03] <bill2or3> Jymm, how much do you need? many many feet, or just a little?
[18:32:33] <Jymmm> bill2or3: just a few for now (for eval purposes) then many for production
[18:32:53] <bill2or3> I saw some at a surplus place earlier, lemmie see if I can find it again.
[18:33:00] <Jymmm> k
[18:34:53] <bill2or3> here it is: http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G15614
[18:35:22] <bill2or3> uh, I thought it was longer, but it's only 1.3 inches
[18:35:34] <bill2or3> what's this for, anyway?
[18:37:54] <Jymmm> damn.. back to that $1/in *ARGH*
[18:39:12] <bill2or3> how much do you need?
[18:39:30] <bill2or3> every .25in is pretty bright, maybe you could do with a less-dense bar.
[18:39:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> in the .po file, at one point it says "open g-code file [O]", is O bound to O, and if so will it affect things like _other or _obvious or c_orncob?
[18:40:03] <bill2or3> and does color matter?
[18:41:26] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: When things are underlined (_File) they're accessed with Alt (and moving the _ will change it to a different letter)
[18:41:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> whereas things liek [O] are not?
[18:41:45] <cradek> Lerneaen_Hydra_: that is a tooltip, so the [O] is just documentation that you should change to match your new keyboard shortcut
[18:41:53] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: When it's in brackets ([O]) it is done without alt, and you have to leave it as [O] in the translation
[18:42:08] <cradek> oops, I'm wrong, listen to jepler
[18:42:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[18:42:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> so [O] stays as [O]?
[18:42:27] <jepler> right
[18:42:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> beaseu it is hardcoded?
[18:42:33] <jepler> right
[18:42:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> *because
[18:44:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> is there any way to tag a line without breaking it that one should look at it again?
[18:44:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> any standard way that is
[18:46:03] <jepler> I believe that you can add comment lines that say whatever you like. Comments begin with "#" and extend to the end of the line.
[18:47:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[18:57:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> strings with "Turn_spindle"... by turn is it meant power spindle on/off or lathe spindle <command>?
[18:58:45] <jepler> none of the 'turn'ing refers to lathe use
[18:58:52] <fenn> we're planning ordering a batch of pcb's for a 100mhz logic analyzer if anyone here is interested.. minila.sourceforge.net
[18:59:31] <bill2or3> * bill2or3 foods.
[18:59:39] <jepler> fenn: ooh, sounds neat. but I don't need one.
[18:59:46] <fenn> you know you want it
[19:00:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> * Lerneaen_Hydra_ nearly expects a link to an EMC2 maching producing PCB's
[19:00:46] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: that's one of the things cradek does on his machine. http://timeguy.com/cradek/cnc/pcb
[19:02:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> does it work well (machining PCBs that is)? I've heard that it doesnt work all too well from other people...
[19:02:29] <cradek> it works really great
[19:02:52] <cradek> well you can see the photos for yourself
[19:03:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> any issues with the solder not running well around the pins? (no plating in the holes)
[19:03:24] <cradek> it's true you have to solder vias by hand (two sides)
[19:03:38] <cradek> but soldering to the board works fine as long as the holes are the right size
[19:03:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[19:04:13] <cradek> I try hard to use single-sided boards whenever I can, since they're much easier to make
[19:04:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I tkae it it's easy to set EMC2 up to frist machine the track, then wait for toolchange, drill some holes, then wait for another toolchange and drill some more holes and so on?
[19:04:33] <cradek> but I have successfully made complex double-sided boards too.
[19:04:45] <cradek> yes that's how it works
[19:04:54] <cradek> also at the end, put in an end mill and cut out the board
[19:05:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> the outer contour?
[19:05:52] <cradek> yes
[19:05:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> dont they get dull very very quickly becuase of the fiberglass?
[19:06:03] <cradek> you must use solid carbide
[19:06:07] <cradek> it lasts a long time.
[19:06:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[19:06:16] <cradek> anything else (HSS) is destroyed instantly
[19:06:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> HSS is a no no I presume then
[19:06:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[19:06:31] <cradek> you can do maybe 3 holes with a HSS drill
[19:12:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> and then it's dead?
[19:13:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> or well, has to be resharpened
[19:13:16] <cradek> I don't have a sharpener, so it's dead for me
[19:13:42] <cradek> you can do a few more but the pads end up bubbled because it's pushing the board out of the hole instead of cutting it
[19:13:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah, ok
[19:14:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> so solid carbide only then?
[19:14:11] <cradek> carbide pcb drills are not too expensive and they last for a long time (I usually clumsily break them before I dull them)
[19:14:19] <cradek> yes, definitely solid carbide
[19:14:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> what about endmills? are they similar in appearence to a HSS endmill?
[19:15:08] <cradek> to cut the fine traces I use a 60 degree V shaped tool
[19:15:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> and maybe 2/10th mm deep?
[19:15:30] <cradek> them)
[19:15:34] <cradek> oops
[19:15:38] <cradek> http://thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/mechmill.htm
[19:15:53] <cradek> I cut .0045" deep = .11mm
[19:16:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> not that much then
[19:16:24] <cradek> only enough to get through the copper
[19:16:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[19:20:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> is there a bash command to compare two files?
[19:21:03] <cradek> diff -u oldfile newfile
[19:23:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I have translated the strings that I understood, however quite a few need clarification. what would be the best thing to do?
[19:25:06] <cradek> most translations are a work in progress - you could use your best guess and maybe fix it later, or leave it english, whatever you like
[19:25:24] <jepler> If you don't provide any translation, then the english message will be shown
[19:26:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> but this si something like 50 lines...
[19:29:01] <jepler> Is it because you don't understand what the messages mean, or you're not certain of the right translation?
[19:30:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Uncertain of the meaning minaly, and a few where I don't remember the correct word (I'll check in school tomorrow)
[19:31:48] <jepler> I'd be happy to help with any you don't understand
[19:32:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> I can send the .po file, I'm just checking through it again.
[19:32:32] <jepler> OK. My e-mail is [email protected]
[19:33:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> uh, I'll sned the rows I don't understand the meaning/context of
[19:33:17] <jepler> alright
[19:37:46] <jepler> aha. there is a worse powertool than the dremel! http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2005/11/16/turn-your-kitchen-mixer-into-a-power-tool/
[19:41:20] <alex_joni> lol
[19:44:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: sent mail
[19:45:23] <jepler> ok thanks
[19:47:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> how much does an "average" NC mill cost the "average" builder? (stepper motors, 3 axis's, medium benchtop sized)
[19:48:15] <fenn> $1500
[19:48:23] <fenn> excluding the mill
[19:48:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> what is the main cost in that?
[19:49:01] <fenn> ballscrews, motor controllres
[19:49:06] <fenn> er motor drivers i mean
[19:49:17] <fenn> belts and pulleys and stuff adds up quick too
[19:49:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> are ballscrews a must?
[19:49:20] <fenn> no
[19:49:34] <jepler> This is similar to the machine cradek started with, though he's upgraded nearly everything by now: http://www.maxnc.com/page3.html
[19:50:00] <fenn> you can probably build a really cheap mill for $400
[19:50:01] <jepler> (cradek's machine is the cnc machine I have access to; I don't have one of my own)
[19:50:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> isn't that one rather... small/weak?
[19:50:12] <fenn> (again excluding the cost of the mill)
[19:50:34] <fenn> small/weak is way better than nothing imho
[19:51:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> well, thats for sure. how much can you do with something that size? can you pull a 10mm endmilll 3mm down through aluminium at a high feedrate?
[19:51:57] <fenn> * fenn doubts it
[19:52:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> * Lerneaen_Hydra_ wonders if jepler has recieved the mail...
[19:55:03] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: yes
[19:55:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: Ah, good
[19:56:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> axis question: can one simiulate machining like... uh.. in the way the CAM software does (one sees a block of the raw material and sees how material is removed)
[19:56:28] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: no, it doesn't have that capability.
[19:56:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> jepler: Is it likely to be added?
[19:56:54] <jepler> that would be a major new feature -- I'm not even entirely sure how that would be implemented.
[19:57:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[19:59:00] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: do you want me to give credit to "Lerneaen Hydra" or to the name you gave in your e-mail?
[19:59:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> uh, what has everyone else done?
[19:59:35] <jepler> real names, I think
[19:59:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> then I'll do the same
[19:59:44] <jepler> OK
[20:00:21] <alex_joni> jepler: we discussed that simulation thingie with jmk a while back
[20:00:31] <alex_joni> it really would be eye-catchy ;)
[20:00:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> most definetly!
[20:00:52] <jepler> I agree
[20:01:02] <alex_joni> but it takes a lot of work to get properly done (kinematics & all)
[20:01:20] <alex_joni> and it needs a way to describe the machine
[20:01:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> does the simulation do at 1:1 speed of real speed?
[20:01:49] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: yes
[20:01:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> why would it need the machine?
[20:02:14] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: think xyz machine opposed to a hexapod
[20:02:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> isn't a graphic representing the tool and the block of matieral enough?
[20:02:22] <alex_joni> emc2 can drive them all
[20:02:34] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I thought you want to see the slides too
[20:02:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> slides?
[20:02:51] <alex_joni> axes
[20:02:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ah..
[20:03:36] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I just added the partial translation to axis 1.2, so it (or any updates you send me) will be included in the next release.
[20:03:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ok
[20:04:15] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra_: I'm not sure when that will be, so you have time to send me any improvements.
[20:04:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> uh, I'll be going to bed soon, when do you think you can send me clarification on the strings I placed *** in front of?
[20:05:09] <jepler> I may look at it this evening, but no promises.
[20:05:17] <alex_joni> promises & lies
[20:05:24] <alex_joni> one of my favorite songs :)
[20:05:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> anything within 16 hours is faster than I'll be able to check so I think that'l be fine
[20:06:01] <jepler> OK, we'll see.
[20:06:11] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: that sounds like too much sleep
[20:06:12] <alex_joni> :)
[20:06:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> well I've got school too ;)
[20:06:33] <jepler> otherwise I'm frequently around on IRC, give me a gentle reminder.
[20:06:33] <alex_joni> no mail at school? (lol)
[20:06:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> well, they wont be too pleased, and they've blocked IRC :(
[20:07:07] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: there's a java client on www.linuxcnc.org :D
[20:07:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> ooh
[20:07:24] <alex_joni> but I think it connects directly..
[20:07:29] <alex_joni> so that won't be good
[20:07:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> oh..
[20:07:49] <alex_joni> but I thought about putting a flash version (which uses a gateway), so that would totally work :)
[20:08:01] <alex_joni> but then again, school is needed too :P
[20:08:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> not during breaks ;)
[20:08:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> well then again, most people would be all, "WTF R U DOING!CNC IS 4 LUSERS!"
[20:08:57] <Guest836> testing, well this works
[20:08:58] <alex_joni> see... we just have a Guest from the website :)
[20:09:06] <alex_joni> hello Guest836
[20:09:12] <Guest836> I'm hydra
[20:09:17] <Guest836> just testing the java version
[20:09:37] <Guest836> hello there
[20:09:37] <alex_joni> any good?
[20:09:53] <Guest836> well, works at home, lets just hope it works at school too.
[20:10:04] <alex_joni> if they blocked irc, then probably not
[20:10:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> there's no way to change the port or use a proxy is there?
[20:13:24] <alex_joni> no, irc doesn't really work that way
[20:13:43] <SkunkWorks> hey alex - had a nice converstaion with jmk about the ir2111
[20:13:55] <alex_joni> oh, did I mention I hate those?
[20:13:57] <alex_joni> LOL
[20:14:00] <SkunkWorks> That guy is too smart for his own good.
[20:14:10] <SkunkWorks> you came up in the converstaion ;)
[20:14:21] <alex_joni> yeah, I've seen :)
[20:14:29] <SkunkWorks> he figured you where having problems with parasitics.
[20:14:33] <alex_joni> nothing escapes me eyes
[20:14:38] <SkunkWorks> :)
[20:14:49] <alex_joni> I should have used a better antivir
[20:14:58] <alex_joni> to get rid of the parasitics :)
[20:15:10] <SkunkWorks> was that breadboarded? or did you build a circuit board?
[20:15:17] <alex_joni> I built a PCB
[20:15:18] <SkunkWorks> avg for the win ;)
[20:15:26] <alex_joni> and breadboarded before
[20:15:38] <alex_joni> avg rules
[20:16:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> (are there issues with using a breadboard for the controllers (except for the high current areas)?)
[20:16:30] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra_: there might be some
[20:16:31] <SkunkWorks> interesting. played with eagle for a while - pretty powerfull but I don't think I get it yet. The pcb might be drawn in acad
[20:16:46] <alex_joni> oh, acad is wrong for that
[20:17:09] <SkunkWorks> I know it is wrong but I can draw files up in it quick ;)
[20:17:10] <alex_joni> eagle makes it so much easier
[20:17:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> Paint! :D
[20:17:26] <jepler> I feel bad using proprietary software, but eagle is nice for making schematics and circuit boards, at least at the hobbyist level.
[20:17:30] <alex_joni> no checks in acad
[20:17:36] <SkunkWorks> I might have to play with it some more. It seemed to be a pain - expecially trying to make larger traces
[20:17:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni used primarely orcad
[20:18:07] <SkunkWorks> I have not played with orcad since the early 90s
[20:18:43] <jepler> SkunkWorks: If you want to use the autorouter and get some traces wider than others, you have to set the "class" of the nets
[20:18:59] <jepler> SkunkWorks: in the schematic editor, type "class" and it brings up a list of net classes. you can assign them widths and clearances
[20:19:13] <jepler> then "change class", select a class, and click the nets or wires you want to change to the new class
[20:19:27] <jepler> now, the autorouter and the design-rule checker will use the assigned width for those traces
[20:19:34] <jepler> (that's all from memory)
[20:19:39] <SkunkWorks> Jepler: thanks - Looks like I will play with it some more. ;)
[20:20:09] <SkunkWorks> It lookes powerfull - drew up a quick schematic and made a simple circuit board.
[20:20:32] <SkunkWorks> I guess I need more time with it.
[20:22:05] <jepler> it takes a fair bit of time to learn
[20:22:17] <jepler> at first it's downright confusing
[20:22:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> gnight everyone (or morning or evening or afternoon or whatever)
[20:23:39] <SkunkWorks> Jepler: yes it is. Took me a while to figure out how to bring devices into the schematic :)
[20:24:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra_> bye
[20:24:58] <K4ts> hello
[20:37:06] <giacus_afk> Warning: taking the Church of Emacs (or any church) too seriously may be hazardous to your health.
[20:37:12] <giacus_afk> :)
[20:37:27] <giacus_afk> giacus_afk is now known as giacus
[20:37:31] <giacus> hello K4ts
[20:37:48] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/INSTALL: removed references to emc-config
[20:37:59] <K4ts> ciao
[20:38:12] <giacus> how is my Church ?
[20:38:42] <giacus> howdy ?
[20:39:00] <giacus> ok ?
[20:39:26] <K4ts> parli con me?
[20:40:03] <giacus> sure, any other around ?
[20:40:59] <giacus> arent you my church ?
[20:41:27] <giacus> :)
[20:41:57] <K4ts> chiesa?
[20:42:04] <giacus> yes
[20:42:16] <K4ts> bha
[20:42:31] <giacus> i'm your religious fan
[20:42:53] <K4ts> I 'm devil
[20:43:07] <giacus> K4ts: a men who is really a man should believe in something ..
[20:43:15] <giacus> I believe in U
[20:43:30] <giacus> is it wrong ?
[20:43:40] <K4ts> I'm black
[20:43:43] <K4ts> dog
[20:43:49] <K4ts> my dog
[20:44:05] <K4ts> today
[20:44:06] <giacus> how is your dog ?
[20:44:43] <K4ts> veterinary
[20:44:49] <giacus> hm
[20:45:04] <K4ts> my dog have micosi
[20:45:31] <giacus> switch to cat
[20:45:35] <giacus> its better ..
[20:45:44] <K4ts> mercoledi
[20:45:59] <K4ts> you and me
[20:46:06] <K4ts> come salerno
[20:46:14] <giacus> nah ..
[20:46:15] <K4ts> with dog
[20:46:21] <giacus> i'm ungry
[20:46:25] <giacus> sorry ..
[20:46:29] <giacus> tired
[20:46:39] <K4ts> you come a naples
[20:46:49] <K4ts> ?
[20:46:52] <giacus> seems so
[20:46:54] <giacus> :)
[20:47:04] <giacus> saturday
[20:47:46] <K4ts> yes e mercoledi
[20:47:49] <K4ts> vieni con me
[20:47:52] <K4ts> andiamo a salerno
[20:48:07] <giacus> sorry ..
[20:48:11] <giacus> i'm afraid
[20:48:14] <giacus> I can't
[20:48:38] <giacus> I maybe will be in rome
[20:48:50] <giacus> for that date
[20:49:07] <K4ts> +qunado'
[20:49:11] <K4ts> a roma?
[20:49:16] <giacus> ??
[20:50:49] <K4ts> pvt
[20:51:09] <giacus> wednesday
[20:51:20] <giacus> ops ..
[20:51:57] <giacus> sorry I do not pvt query with female
[20:52:13] <giacus> I fear ..
[20:52:19] <giacus> talk here
[20:53:18] <giacus> could be dangerous
[20:53:54] <K4ts> =-=
[20:54:01] <K4ts> 0_0
[20:54:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10documents/lyx/EMC2_Compile.lyx: emc2 compile instructions
[20:54:44] <giacus> _ __________=__
[20:54:44] <giacus> \\@([____]_____()
[20:54:44] <giacus> _/\|-[____]
[20:54:44] <giacus> / /(( )
[20:54:44] <giacus> /____|'----'
[20:54:47] <giacus> \____/
[20:54:52] <giacus> :P
[20:55:29] <giacus> bang
[20:55:54] <giacus> bang bang !
[20:56:43] <giacus> /'`\ /|\
[20:56:43] <giacus> ,' : `\ , /' | `\
[20:56:43] <giacus> .' : `/| /| /' /' |
[20:56:43] <giacus> ._ | `\ |'|/'//' | | ,
[20:56:43] <giacus> `\`-\ | |/' |'| `\ |/|
[20:56:45] <giacus> /`\_`-,_|_-'_,-'/| `\,/'/'
[20:56:47] <giacus> |/~~~~~~\ /'~ /' `\___-~/_,'
[20:56:50] <giacus> Y `~`~\_Y ~~~
[20:56:52] <giacus> `\/ |_
[20:56:55] <giacus> _______ -`,/ \/'
[20:56:57] <giacus> _/~~ \ ~\ | /'
[20:57:00] <giacus> /' ~/~~~~~\| `~\ _.' _/'\
[20:57:02] <giacus> /'_/~| /'~`\ |\ |_ |
[20:57:05] <giacus> |/~_/~~~\/' `\ | `\| /'\
[20:57:07] <giacus> |/' `\ /~~~~`\____\'
[20:57:10] <giacus> `~'\___ _/__,-|
[20:57:12] <giacus> ~~' -|_
[20:57:32] <K4ts> quando devi andare a roma?
[20:57:38] <K4ts> con tuo fratello
[20:58:00] <giacus> wednesday
[20:58:19] <K4ts> questo?
[20:58:40] <giacus> maybe
[20:58:55] <jepler> is that a rabid squirrel with two butts?
[20:59:01] <jepler> I can't tell
[21:00:01] <giacus> its a rose
[21:00:08] <giacus> a sexy rose :D
[21:00:50] <giacus> rose's and guns
[21:03:24] <SkunkWorks> Jepler: got a second? Another stupid question on eagle - I found used class to change add a 3mm trace with 1mm spacing. but it doesn't seem to carry over to the pcb Is mil mm or some other unit?
[21:03:42] <alex_joni> g'night all..
[21:03:47] <SkunkWorks> night alex
[21:03:55] <giacus> night alex_joni
[21:04:03] <fenn> night alex.. i'll ask you about h-bridges tomorrow
[21:04:33] <fenn> SkunkWorks: mil is .001"
[21:05:17] <SkunkWorks> Thanks fenn.
[21:05:48] <SkunkWorks> fenn: http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/ir2111.pdf Going to use this to make an h-bridge
[21:06:02] <SkunkWorks> (why I am goofing around with eagle
[21:06:06] <SkunkWorks> )
[21:06:21] <giacus> btw guys
[21:06:27] <giacus> i'm happy to annouce
[21:06:36] <giacus> berlusconi lose
[21:06:42] <giacus> and democracy won
[21:06:43] <fenn> O RLY?
[21:06:48] <giacus> ;)
[21:06:58] <fenn> oh even better, a conspiracy
[21:07:59] <giacus> silvio RIP +
[21:08:05] <giacus> :D
[21:08:56] <giacus> he has been reset by peer
[21:09:48] <giacus> so, M$ and bush losted a 'strong' partner for the next 5 years here
[21:10:21] <giacus> and I'm happy to see that italian peoples are not so stupid ..
[21:10:26] <giacus> at the end
[21:11:18] <giacus> we thanks all italian peoples outside of country, all around the world, tha help to sack berlusca !
[21:11:53] <giacus> because they have been very important
[21:12:18] <giacus> for the vote
[21:12:23] <giacus> in this case
[21:12:48] <giacus> 48 million of peoples
[21:13:06] <giacus> where the difference has been oh 28k votes
[21:13:10] <giacus> :P
[21:13:22] <fenn> * fenn yawns
[21:13:37] <fenn> what was it, like 500 votes here in US?
[21:13:59] <giacus> as bush won in florida..
[21:14:03] <giacus> for few votes
[21:14:11] <giacus> same here now
[21:14:43] <giacus> well, there's an hope now, we can go on
[21:15:50] <NickServ> If this is your nickname, type /msg NickServ IDENTIFY <password>
[21:15:51] <giacus> thats is important
[21:16:18] <giacus> mean peoples is tired to be derised
[21:17:04] <giacus> and mean peoples who stay outside of this country, really know how this country was working
[21:17:08] <giacus> :D
[21:17:41] <giacus> first of all, I want free software on any school !
[21:17:56] <giacus> no ecdl for guys
[21:18:00] <giacus> haha
[21:18:43] <giacus> and no atomic bombs !
[21:19:16] <giacus> italian troups will come back soon from irak
[21:23:55] <giacus> K4ts: you agreed ?
[21:24:48] <K4ts> i'm sad
[21:25:03] <giacus> sad sad situation
[21:25:10] <giacus> :)
[21:25:44] <giacus> ut the show must go on
[21:26:01] <giacus> don't you believe in ?
[21:27:01] <giacus> anna the life is too short
[21:27:08] <K4ts> believe what?
[21:27:09] <giacus> there's no time for war
[21:27:16] <giacus> in piece ?
[21:28:28] <giacus> you can image it
[21:28:39] <K4ts> john lennon!
[21:28:44] <giacus> heh
[21:28:45] <K4ts> ahah
[21:28:48] <giacus> :)
[21:29:10] <giacus> learned it ?
[21:29:35] <giacus> should I take my guitar coming there ?
[21:29:39] <giacus> :P
[21:30:46] <giacus> K4ts: any idea about configuring gnus on emacs ?
[21:31:10] <K4ts> speak italian
[21:31:16] <giacus> dunno
[21:31:26] <giacus> I don't speak italian sorry ..
[21:31:30] <giacus> :(
[21:31:33] <K4ts> ok
[21:32:03] <giacus> i'm looking for a good english debugger
[21:32:17] <K4ts> bravo
[21:32:20] <giacus> K4ts: how is your english ?
[21:32:42] <giacus> really ..
[21:33:04] <giacus> good ?
[21:33:35] <giacus> fenn: still there ?
[21:34:08] <giacus> anyone here around speak english ? :(
[21:34:47] <giacus> jepler: ah ! you around ?
[21:35:11] <jepler> giacus: no
[21:35:13] <jepler> giacus: I mean, maybe
[21:35:15] <giacus> :)
[21:35:22] <giacus> http://www.giacus.org/en/index.html
[21:35:28] <giacus> please debug that
[21:35:36] <giacus> I helped you in italian
[21:35:44] <jepler> what's the "bug"?
[21:35:45] <giacus> so .. you can help me in english :P
[21:35:48] <jepler> oh
[21:36:08] <giacus> how many errors there around ?
[21:36:31] <giacus> :)
[21:39:00] <giacus> K4ts: found some error .. ;P
[21:39:16] <K4ts> cosi impari
[21:39:21] <giacus> haha
[21:39:24] <K4ts> a fare superman
[21:46:36] <giacus> K4ts: sigh
[21:46:45] <giacus> I never sayd i'm superman :(��
[21:46:49] <giacus> hehe
[21:47:28] <fenn> giacus: s/electronic/electronics/
[21:47:35] <giacus> ok
[21:48:14] <fenn> s/at 12:30 of/at 12:30/
[21:48:54] <giacus> reload the page
[21:48:58] <giacus> i'm uploading
[21:49:02] <giacus> :)
[21:49:03] <fenn> s/travels/travel/
[21:49:05] <giacus> k
[21:49:37] <fenn> s/relive/re-live/
[21:50:27] <fenn> on photo gallery page
[21:50:41] <giacus> yeah
[21:51:18] <fenn> you forgot to translate "Eclisse solare totale" too
[21:51:32] <fenn> s/holydays/holidays/
[21:51:48] <giacus> oh ..
[21:52:17] <fenn> i'm not sure what "to know" is supposed to mean.. "howto" maybe?
[21:52:32] <fenn> oh howto is already there
[21:52:46] <giacus> yeah .. I wpuld mean 'things to know'
[21:53:00] <giacus> would
[21:54:16] <fenn> "Since my english is not perfect you might find language errors on these pages. Sorry about that." would be better
[21:55:27] <giacus> ok
[21:56:35] <giacus> updated ..
[21:57:11] <giacus> done ?
[21:58:46] <fenn> yes sorry
[21:58:51] <giacus> :))
[21:58:53] <giacus> good
[21:58:59] <giacus> thank you
[21:59:23] <fenn> all in all pretty good
[21:59:25] <giacus> K4ts: I got results
[21:59:51] <giacus> only 20-25 errors in 80 words
[21:59:54] <giacus> :D
[22:00:57] <K4ts> well
[22:01:20] <giacus> that mean anybody ca learn :P
[22:01:23] <giacus> can
[22:01:28] <giacus> also you :))
[22:01:51] <giacus> since my learn curve is very low ..
[22:01:53] <giacus> :(
[22:03:08] <giacus> I will find a substitute for 'to know'
[22:03:22] <giacus> sound bad
[22:03:22] <fenn> see k4ts you already understand what he's saying
[22:04:09] <K4ts> fenn:
[22:06:55] <giacus> :)
[22:08:10] <giacus> fsf seems slow to update his supporters on theyr page
[22:08:29] <giacus> since i did donation one month ago
[22:08:32] <giacus> :P
[22:09:05] <giacus> my name isnt there yet :(
[22:12:55] <giacus> K4ts: ?
[22:13:00] <giacus> still there ?
[22:15:37] <K4ts> bother?
[22:16:13] <giacus> nah ..
[22:18:17] <K4ts> domenica di pasqua andiamo a mangiare a casa di eddy per te va bene?
[22:18:24] <giacus> ok
[22:18:48] <K4ts> martedi avevano organizzato di andare ad un agriturisnmo al matese
[22:18:54] <K4ts> non ho detto nacora dino
[22:18:56] <K4ts> ne si
[22:19:12] <giacus> ok...
[22:19:16] <K4ts> pensaci che per loro hanno gia prenotato
[22:19:22] <giacus> two question in 2 sec :(
[22:19:28] <K4ts> yes
[22:19:28] <giacus> are enough
[22:19:51] <giacus> K
[22:28:44] <K4ts> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=40
[22:29:18] <giacus> cool
[22:31:28] <giacus> K4ts: kyra seems to be ok
[22:31:40] <giacus> can I say you a thing ?
[22:31:57] <giacus> you can copy the image link from firefox
[22:32:10] <giacus> since you're using it :P
[22:32:42] <giacus> then, copy the image link is better then url website
[22:32:48] <giacus> when is possible
[22:33:05] <giacus> http://www.diamantiincantati.it/public/uploads/photos/40.jpg
[22:34:50] <giacus> :*
[22:54:16] <K4ts> night
[22:55:40] <K4ts> giacus: night
[22:56:03] <giacus> night
[23:14:15] <skunkworks> lookey what we found http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/460727771AD2S1200_0.pdf