#emc | Logs for 2006-06-13

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[00:09:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/scope_disp.c: remove debug print
[00:35:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: set lowest jog speed to approximately one step/feedback every 2 seconds
[00:35:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/tcl/axis.tcl: set lowest jog speed to approximately one step/feedback every 2 seconds
[00:51:55] <asdfq-shop> O Godz, why can't I keep a connection on IRC?
[00:52:06] <asdfq-shop> Not enough burnt offerings?
[00:52:15] <SWPadnos> overcooked
[00:53:45] <asdfq-shop> I need to get out the welder, and weld together a bunch of old Volvo parts to make a 200-ft tower for an antenna - and then subscribe to the local WISP
[00:54:06] <asdfq-shop> Satellite sucks.
[00:54:49] <A-L-P-H-A> WISP... Wireless ISP. :P
[00:54:53] <A-L-P-H-A> who said satellite?
[00:55:03] <A-L-P-H-A> why would heed a 200ft tower for a satellite dish? :P
[00:55:15] <A-L-P-H-A> t'ink a'boot tit.
[00:55:25] <A-L-P-H-A> k... time to double check my wireing, and power up the mill.
[00:55:37] <SWPadnos> note that his address was from direcpc.com - a satellite provider
[00:55:51] <SWPadnos> he was talking about dumping that for a WISP, I think
[00:57:37] <skunkworks> asdfq-shop: what type of satellite?
[00:58:51] <SWPadnos> direcpt
[00:58:53] <SWPadnos> argh
[00:58:56] <SWPadnos> direcpc
[00:59:26] <skunkworks> that is what I had. (direcpc)
[00:59:48] <skunkworks> SWPadnos: you need to figure out what is missing from your diet :)
[00:59:55] <SWPadnos> typing skills
[01:00:10] <SWPadnos> I think maybe my chair is lower or something
[01:00:30] <skunkworks> maybe your fingers are changing length
[01:01:04] <SWPadnos> maybe
[01:01:32] <skunkworks> I have that problem
[01:01:59] <fenn> pebkaf
[01:04:36] <alphaEMC> :) whoohoo!
[01:04:42] <alphaEMC> emc works... and seems fast.
[01:04:55] <skunkworks> great!
[01:04:57] <alphaEMC> time to tweak,and make sure movements are specifically 1" etc.
[01:10:15] <alphaEMC> what the heck does "linear move -9 out of range" mean??
[01:10:46] <skunkworks> the stock ini only has like 10 inches of movement - check your soft limits in the ini
[01:11:17] <alphaEMC> but I tried to even move it back to 0,0,0
[01:11:23] <alphaEMC> it gaves me that error
[01:11:49] <SWPadnos> the limits probably are from 0 to something, so some axis thinks it has to move 0.00000000001 past that, and you get the error
[01:12:01] <SWPadnos> maybe
[01:13:10] <alphaEMC> 0.013" backlash. :(
[01:13:13] <alphaEMC> shitty.
[01:13:15] <alphaEMC> on X.
[01:13:44] <SWPadnos> that's quite a bit. is there a preload adjustment on the nut?
[01:15:30] <skunkworks> umm - I don't know how well backlash will work with emc2 with steppers. (I have heard of issues - have not used it)
[01:16:02] <skunkworks> where the backlash is taken up at too fast of a rate. - don't know if that has been fixed.
[01:22:37] <alphaEMC> <shrug>
[01:22:42] <alphaEMC> hmm...
[01:22:48] <alphaEMC> I dunno anything...
[01:22:54] <alphaEMC> I've still gotta double check everything.
[01:23:16] <alphaEMC> man...
[01:23:21] <alphaEMC> at least the machine runs at speed now.
[01:23:31] <alphaEMC> so... just need to do some fine tunning, and then I'm good
[01:23:33] <alphaEMC> "D
[01:23:34] <alphaEMC> :D
[01:26:18] <SWPadnos> woohoo!
[01:26:48] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[01:28:02] <jepler> you can lead more horses to water with the carrot than with the stick.
[01:29:00] <SWPadnos> a carrot stick
[01:29:46] <jepler> alphaEMC: hooray
[01:43:04] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone here play classic games??
[01:47:41] <Jymmm> such as? asteroids?
[01:47:51] <Jymmm> space invaders?
[01:47:52] <A-L-P-H-A> scorched earth!
[01:47:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I want to play people...
[01:48:04] <A-L-P-H-A> scorched earth *3d*!!! :D
[01:48:11] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php
[01:48:23] <A-L-P-H-A> go grab it... and lets play
[01:48:36] <Jymmm> what is it?
[01:48:51] <A-L-P-H-A> screens are there.
[01:48:59] <Jymmm> rpg?
[01:49:06] <A-L-P-H-A> no... kinda like an FPG
[01:49:12] <A-L-P-H-A> except you're tanks, and not real time
[01:49:21] <A-L-P-H-A> you get shit loads of weapons, which you kills people with
[01:50:51] <SWPadnos> I wonder if Wolf:ET still works on this machine
[01:51:21] <Jymmm> wolfeistein?
[01:52:14] <SWPadnos> wolf3D - a much better 3D wngine, based on the came "return to castle wolfenstein"
[01:52:19] <SWPadnos> encong
[01:52:20] <SWPadnos> asdfdas gag
[01:52:22] <SWPadnos> engine
[01:53:07] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I'm watching the video, but some other music is playing. does it have no audio fx ?
[01:53:55] <asdfq-shop> Yeah, I'm Direcway (direcpc)
[01:54:05] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah it doe
[01:54:06] <A-L-P-H-A> s
[01:54:21] <asdfq-shop> My cat could make a better internet connection
[01:54:28] <asdfq-shop> ...and scratch dirt over it
[01:54:53] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: by the way, did you end up using the ini generated by my web application?
[01:54:59] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, yes
[01:55:03] <A-L-P-H-A> with a slight mod.
[01:55:44] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: what did you change? Is it something the web page could have done for you?
[01:56:06] <Jymmm> jepler: url?
[01:56:21] <A-L-P-H-A> a setting, sec.
[01:56:31] <jepler> Jymmm: it's temporarily running at http://axis.unpy.net:8080
[01:56:35] <jepler> Jymmm: and experimental
[01:56:41] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I might dl this later.
[01:57:01] <Jymmm> jepler: ok, I'll take a quick peek...
[01:58:20] <Jymmm> min/max limit? is that travel?
[01:58:36] <jepler> Jymmm: yes
[01:58:37] <jepler> oops
[01:58:41] <jepler> * jepler notices that he just broke something
[01:58:43] <jepler> "oops, I bwoke it"
[01:58:46] <Jymmm> heh
[01:59:08] <Jymmm> might I make a suggestion?
[01:59:26] <jepler> only if it's trivial to implement :-P
[01:59:34] <jepler> I mean, sure.
[02:00:14] <Jymmm> maybe have the user input their motor speacs, deg/step, qty steps, pulley ratio, thread pitch and have it be calculated
[02:01:27] <jepler> yeah, I've thought about it too
[02:01:59] <Jymmm> and BASE_PERIOD default to a SAFE value, then give em a range to try if the want something other than default.
[02:02:21] <Jymmm> I still dont understand it a whole lot myself
[02:02:43] <jepler> 50 is a pretty safe value (lower numbers are more risky)
[02:03:22] <Jymmm> Right, but higher numers usually mean more/better/faster
[02:03:40] <Jymmm> it can be a tad confusing.
[02:04:20] <Jymmm> come on...finish verifyuing the damn dvd already....
[02:09:40] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler, right. back.
[02:09:43] <A-L-P-H-A> was playing that game. sorry
[02:09:49] <A-L-P-H-A> let me check exactly what was the problem.
[02:09:53] <A-L-P-H-A> something about servo something
[02:10:04] <SWPadnos> servo perios / traj period
[02:10:07] <SWPadnos> period
[02:10:26] <SWPadnos> either traj_period needed to be set to 2 ms, or servo period to 500 us
[02:10:26] <A-L-P-H-A> TRAJ_PERIOD = 2000000
[02:10:36] <SWPadnos> due to silly rounding issues
[02:10:39] <A-L-P-H-A> from 1million to 2million and it worked.
[02:11:20] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll make a spring loaded bracket to do preloading... later though.
[02:14:11] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone know of a free whiteboard drawing program ?
[02:16:41] <Jymmm> you mean shared whiteboard?
[02:16:45] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[02:17:00] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: hm, ok
[02:17:40] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: http://www.google.com/search?q=shared+whiteboard&sourceid=mozilla&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
[02:21:50] <A-L-P-H-A> http://70.26.65.189/drawboard/test.html
[02:22:11] <Jymmm> no java on this machine
[02:22:18] <A-L-P-H-A> what? why not?
[02:22:19] <cradek> nor here
[02:22:27] <A-L-P-H-A> everyone go install java!
[02:22:28] <Jymmm> dman java viruses
[02:22:40] <A-L-P-H-A> ti's a whiteboard!
[02:22:52] <cradek> I would if this works well
[02:22:55] <Jymmm> http://www.imaginationcubed.com/LaunchPage
[02:23:00] <cradek> is this a permanent setup?
[02:23:09] <cradek> Jymmm: I've tried that one and never got it to work
[02:23:15] <A-L-P-H-A> but how to you add people??
[02:23:19] <Jymmm> cradek: ah, ok
[02:23:22] <A-L-P-H-A> you can't... unless you email them, or IM them.
[02:23:31] <A-L-P-H-A> which is bad... I just want to pass a url to them.
[02:23:33] <cradek> Jymmm: also it's stupid, it won't give you a link you can paste to irc, it has to send email for you (after you give away your friend's email address)
[02:23:39] <cradek> yeah what he says
[02:23:51] <Jymmm> yeah, I understand
[02:24:01] <A-L-P-H-A> just get JAVA! and we'll have a white board!!! :D
[02:24:10] <Jymmm> http://web.okaygo.co.uk/apps/scratchpad/flashcom/index4.htm
[02:24:39] <Jymmm> aw fsck
[02:24:41] <Jymmm> nm
[02:25:07] <SWPadnos> hiya jmk. how goes the seminar?
[02:25:09] <cradek> hi jmk!
[02:25:17] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: you suck
[02:25:18] <jmkasunich> hi
[02:25:25] <A-L-P-H-A> hahahaha
[02:25:27] <A-L-P-H-A> LOL.
[02:25:28] <jmkasunich> seminar is as boring as expected
[02:25:37] <Jymmm> hey jmkasunich
[02:26:01] <jmkasunich> hotel internet is filtered, can't do a cvs up ;-(
[02:26:07] <SWPadnos> after the second or third sigma, I just start getting tired ... ;)
[02:26:14] <cradek> ssh is blocked??
[02:26:21] <jmkasunich> but there's an old james bond movie on the cable ;-)
[02:26:34] <jmkasunich> dunno the specifics
[02:26:41] <cradek> man I'd have a fit if ssh was blocked at a hotel
[02:26:55] <Jymmm> use a proxy
[02:27:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm. go get the game. lets play
[02:28:05] <A-L-P-H-A> everyone's invited... http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php
[02:28:22] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: I'm just killing time till this dvd is done verifying
[02:28:23] <jmkasunich> hmm, just tried again and it worked
[02:29:01] <cradek> hotel nets are like that :-)
[02:31:37] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek, cause they aren't switches, they're hubs.
[02:31:44] <A-L-P-H-A> some are getting smarted.
[02:31:46] <A-L-P-H-A> smarter
[02:31:53] <cradek> hubs are nice because you can snoop on your neighbors
[02:32:01] <A-L-P-H-A> heh. so is WEP.
[02:32:14] <A-L-P-H-A> and WPA (if you're on the same network)
[02:32:43] <A-L-P-H-A> lots of hotels that don't have wires, are hooking up as wifi.
[02:32:55] <cradek> yes that's much more common than wires now
[02:33:14] <cradek> extremely inexpensive to set up
[02:33:16] <A-L-P-H-A> in HK. there's city wide wifi... Toronto is getting it soon.
[02:33:16] <Jymmm> anyone have a gigbit network?
[02:33:23] <A-L-P-H-A> nope...
[02:33:26] <cradek> not me
[02:33:28] <jmkasunich> this is wifi
[02:33:59] <Jymmm> I'm thinking abotu setting up a SAN box, and jsut wanted a comparision to SATA
[02:34:11] <Jymmm> (RAID5)
[02:34:31] <SWPadnos> it'll depend more on the cachnig than anything else, I think
[02:34:56] <SWPadnos> a SAN box would have a larger cache than a set of drives on local SATA buses
[02:34:59] <Jymmm> LOTS of smaller files (<16KB) so it's really kiling me
[02:35:25] <Jymmm> I think im up to almost 2M files and it takes forever
[02:35:30] <cradek> I know where you can get some 9 gig scsi drives
[02:35:35] <SWPadnos> because the directories are too full?
[02:35:41] <SWPadnos> err - too large
[02:35:50] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: no, the sector size
[02:35:55] <SWPadnos> ah
[02:36:07] <SWPadnos> with Win or Lin?
[02:36:09] <fenn> jmkasunich: you learning any new buzzwords?
[02:36:17] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, so after verification of the DVD are you playing? or watching it?
[02:36:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: both
[02:36:42] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: neither, about to convert 4GB worht of graphics
[02:37:14] <jmkasunich> a few
[02:37:17] <SWPadnos> ok. NTFS should allow ~2TB disks with single sector clusters, I think
[02:37:39] <SWPadnos> as does ext2, I believe
[02:38:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: theyre on a 300GB ntfs partition atm, big lag
[02:38:34] <Jymmm> I'm thinking getting a 3WARE card
[02:38:53] <Jymmm> gb ethernet (yielding about 600MB/s)
[02:39:08] <SWPadnos> well - it's likely that a well-tuned file server would speed things up, possibly even with the same disk drive(s)
[02:39:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I was thinking of using the new box for video storage/editing too (multi purpose)
[02:39:57] <Jymmm> my DV camera sucks the disk space
[02:40:13] <A-L-P-H-A> gotta love VNC.
[02:40:14] <SWPadnos> I'd suggest that you dedicate a machine as a file server only - with 512M to 1G ram
[02:40:23] <Jymmm> you know... I have a dual G4 in the closet just sitting there....
[02:40:33] <SWPadnos> that'll give you a whopping big disk cache, which is probably a large par tof the problem
[02:40:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm... I smell a mac file server.
[02:40:50] <fenn> a fileserver with 1gb ram.. *sigh*
[02:40:52] <Jymmm> I have 1gb for it, maybe 2
[02:41:15] <SWPadnos> that's 600 megabits/sec, right?
[02:41:25] <SWPadnos> obviously not megabytes on gigE
[02:41:41] <Jymmm> yeah, I've found that you really only get about 60% on ehternet
[02:41:56] <Jymmm> sustained transfer
[02:42:09] <SWPadnos> with a small network, and jumbo frames, you can get ~90% from a linux server
[02:42:22] <SWPadnos> even more, on some benchmarks I've seen
[02:42:45] <Jymmm> maybe it's time to dust off this mac
[02:43:06] <Jymmm> would like RAID5 though...
[02:44:16] <SWPadnos> it definitely won't help speed
[02:44:25] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab oiling my computer fan... so damn loud those things
[02:44:45] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: more of a cya thing
[02:44:51] <SWPadnos> right
[02:46:07] <Jymmm> when he replaces his psu on his computer that he spilled oil in.... http://www.writeboard.com/
[02:46:48] <Jymmm> ok, it's done... now to do some converstion... this is gonna be fun..... NOT!
[02:47:41] <fenn> why are all these whiteboard sites so snarky?
[02:47:56] <fenn> they should follow the pastebin model of "dont pester the crap out of the user"
[02:57:59] <A-L-P-H-A> better... but there's still a resonating humm from something spinning.
[02:58:20] <A-L-P-H-A> speaking of sounds...
[02:59:43] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.ochenk.com/entry.php?id=63 check that out... I can hear all but 22000hz. So upto and including 21000hz I can hear.
[02:59:47] <A-L-P-H-A> use good headphones to check
[03:07:22] <cradek> ok I installed java and I get a semi-functional whiteboard thingy
[03:07:29] <cradek> but I don't know how to tell others to connect to it
[03:12:05] <asdfq-shop> [sighs]
[03:12:14] <asdfq-shop> dang MSI-6312 motherboards
[03:12:42] <asdfq-shop> too durable to get rid of, too lacking to use
[03:13:04] <asdfq-shop> i810, with usb 1.0, I think
[03:13:29] <asdfq-shop> Plus only two PCI slots
[03:14:59] <asdfq-shop> Was hoping a linksys USB100TX would give me temp networking for updating or ssh
[03:15:06] <asdfq-shop> no such luck
[03:15:28] <asdfq-shop> it works in usb 1.1 or usb 2.0, but not on this board
[03:22:10] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek?
[03:22:15] <cradek> yeah
[03:22:16] <A-L-P-H-A> which whiteboard thing? mine?
[03:22:27] <A-L-P-H-A> the 70.26.65.189 address?
[03:22:40] <cradek> yes
[03:23:01] <A-L-P-H-A> refresh
[03:23:13] <cradek> it's not doing anything now
[03:23:13] <A-L-P-H-A> i took down the java app earlier to oil my fans in my computer
[03:23:21] <cradek> ah
[03:23:44] <A-L-P-H-A> is it working now, after you freshed?
[03:23:47] <cradek> no
[03:23:48] <A-L-P-H-A> ctrl-f5 to force refresh
[03:23:51] <cradek> empty rectangle
[03:23:58] <A-L-P-H-A> no app at all?
[03:24:03] <A-L-P-H-A> sec. let me test something.
[03:26:14] <A-L-P-H-A> can anyone else verify?
[03:26:35] <Jymmm> password= cnc http://123.writeboard.com/dcba5792ebb86ac44/v/new
[03:26:48] <cradek> duh, I restarted ff and it works now
[03:27:03] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[03:28:20] <fenn> i dont really see the point of "writeboard" since you can't draw pictures?
[03:28:32] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn
[03:28:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://70.26.65.189/drawboard/test.html
[03:28:55] <Jymmm> didnt realize it AFTER I setup the link
[03:29:04] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't get it to type test.
[03:29:05] <Jymmm> no java
[03:29:14] <A-L-P-H-A> test=text
[03:29:14] <fenn> god i hate java
[03:29:23] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek and I both think it's useful
[03:29:53] <Jymmm> and you're both sadistic too
[03:30:08] <Jymmm> inkscape has inkboard via jabber
[03:30:46] <fenn> yes its useful, i just hate java
[03:31:07] <A-L-P-H-A> really?
[03:31:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't know inkscape had useful plugins.
[03:31:23] <A-L-P-H-A> that's cool then... but then you have to download inkscape (40 megs).
[03:31:55] <A-L-P-H-A> this is messed up... Text does work.
[03:32:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't get text to work though
[03:33:05] <fenn> i dont seem to be able to type either
[03:34:07] <fenn> java sure loves to hog the cpu
[03:34:48] <cradek> goodnight guys
[03:34:55] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: that's a nice experiment
[03:37:44] <A-L-P-H-A> night
[03:37:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I widened the screen.
[03:40:04] <Jymmm> nite cradek
[03:41:31] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn, even if it does hog your CPU... what are you using for anyways? :)
[03:42:26] <fenn> my computer tells me what to think
[03:44:22] <A-L-P-H-A> still trying to figure out why drawboard doesn't allow me to type in FF.
[03:44:23] <A-L-P-H-A> odd.
[03:44:55] <fenn> if java werent so hoggy it'd probably be easier to draw with
[03:45:44] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:46:02] <A-L-P-H-A> night
[03:52:30] <A-L-P-H-A> who hosts linuxcnc.org?
[03:53:38] <Jymmm> do a whois and find out
[03:53:51] <SWPadnos> dreamhost
[03:54:39] <SWPadnos> any particular questions about the hosting?
[03:56:20] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, do they support java?
[03:56:38] <SWPadnos> I suspect they do
[03:56:48] <A-L-P-H-A> get them to host drawboard. :D
[03:56:53] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure whast version(s) are available
[03:57:09] <SWPadnos> maybe ;)
[03:58:56] <Jymmm> sigh... now I have a 16" box fan sitting in front of my computer to cool it down as the temp alarm went off
[03:59:17] <SWPadnos> just turn up the alarm temperature ;)
[03:59:33] <SWPadnos> on that note, it's time for bed. good night guys
[03:59:37] <Jymmm> not till these scripts finish renaming 100K files
[03:59:43] <Jymmm> hasta SWPadnos
[04:00:02] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, java is installed on dreamhost, but no JSP or servlets
[04:00:07] <SWPadnos> see y ajym
[04:00:08] <SWPadnos> asdgfsdaasdgdadfhfsdh
[04:00:11] <SWPadnos> see ya Jymmm
[04:00:16] <SWPadnos> there - stupid keyboard
[04:00:20] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as SWP_Away
[04:00:22] <Jymmm> lol yeah. blam ethe kybd
[04:00:28] <SWP_Away> har
[04:00:40] <A-L-P-H-A> Java is fine...
[04:00:43] <fenn> HARRR!!
[04:00:46] <A-L-P-H-A> this isn't a jsp.
[04:00:54] <A-L-P-H-A> oh,... thismaybe a servlet.
[04:00:56] <A-L-P-H-A> hmmmm.
[11:52:24] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[12:13:53] <les_w> morning
[12:15:28] <A-L-P-H-A-3> morning
[12:19:08] <skunkworks> A-L-P-H-A-3: how is the machine running?
[12:20:44] <les_w> I answered a post on the list about how to round corners....
[12:20:59] <les_w> but not sure how emc clamps axis accel...
[12:21:44] <les_w> if VECTOR accel is clamped corners should be rounded to a circle
[12:22:08] <les_w> but if individual axes only are clamped the rounding would be ?
[12:22:13] <les_w> hyperbolic?
[12:23:01] <les_w> possibly asymetric if individual axis accels are not the same?
[12:24:36] <A-L-P-H-A-3> pardon?
[12:24:44] <les_w> haha
[12:24:57] <A-L-P-H-A-3> skunkworks: machine runs... but I've gotta tweak it now... backlash is out of wack.
[12:25:43] <A-L-P-H-A-3> but gotta go to my business partners house, and chill there for the morning, have lunch, and then do a photoshot with this girl. my life is boring. ;)
[12:29:49] <jepler> les_w: cradek has said the blends are parabolic, but I'm not sure if that's proven, or just his intuition
[12:31:11] <les_w> yeah the blending algo certainly is....I'm talking about an unblended corner constrained to constant velocity with clamped accel
[12:31:41] <les_w> if vector accel magnitude was clamped it would just be centripetal accel
[12:31:49] <les_w> therefore a circular path
[12:32:21] <jepler> either there's blending or it will stop at the programmed point before accelerating on the next segment
[12:32:38] <jepler> maybe I should wait until I have a cup of coffee so I can understand what we're talkinga bout
[12:32:53] <les_w> but if individual axes only are accel and velocity clamped ....
[12:33:00] <les_w> it can't be a circle
[12:33:18] <les_w> but it would still have some kind of rounding
[12:33:51] <les_w> I think a hyperbola
[12:34:37] <les_w> could you plot a path around a corner with low accel to see how emc2 rounds it?
[12:35:19] <jepler> with g64 p0?
[12:35:26] <les_w> yeah
[12:36:12] <les_w> I think it will be hyperbolic.
[12:36:30] <skunkworks> your talking about differnt accels and vel for each axis - the blending will be a parabla (whatever) instead of a circle.
[12:37:42] <A-L-P-H-A-3> Why not just a bunch of small straight lines tangent to the arc/path desired? :P
[12:38:37] <les_w> I think due to constant velocity constraint it would not be a parabola
[12:38:47] <les_w> but it would be some kind of rounding
[12:39:41] <A-L-P-H-A-3> would it be jittery velocity?
[12:40:02] <A-L-P-H-A-3> or would it be constant velocity calculated by distance travelled?
[12:40:31] <les_w> projectile motion is a parabola, but with constant accel velocity is not constant
[12:40:54] <jepler> jepler: working on it
[12:41:15] <les_w> therefore with a constant velocity the shape ought to be something else
[12:42:19] <A-L-P-H-A-3> les_w: .... uh...
[12:43:07] <les_w> yeah need coffee for this one
[12:43:08] <A-L-P-H-A-3> if it's constant velocity, in a straight line, there is no acceleration. if it's constant velocity over path travelled, then acceleration could do whatever.
[12:43:20] <les_w> I guess I should just work out the math
[12:43:46] <A-L-P-H-A-3> for example, a circle... accleration could accelerated forward, or reverse. depending on where you are on the path of the circle.
[12:44:00] <A-L-P-H-A-3> if you broke it down as XYZ.
[12:44:28] <les_w> specifically a corner with constant axis accel by clamping
[12:44:40] <A-L-P-H-A-3> I have no clue what "clamping" is
[12:44:48] <A-L-P-H-A-3> must be an EMC thing...
[12:45:03] <A-L-P-H-A-3> as I've got no knowledge of what clamping is... and I've got a lowly B.Sc in math
[12:45:30] <A-L-P-H-A-3> o/~ I'm a retard baby... why don't you love me? o/~
[12:45:33] <les_w> just software making it a constant
[12:45:34] <jepler> les_w: I took the standard simulator configuration (max velocity 1.0 inch/second, acceleration 20.0 inch/second^2) and reduced the acceleration to 0.3 inch/second/second.
[12:45:37] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel-backplot.png
[12:45:44] <les_w> thanks looking
[12:45:52] <jepler> and halscope plots of xvel, yvel, and xyvel: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel.png
[12:46:34] <A-L-P-H-A-3> pur-dy
[12:46:55] <les_w> looks like a circle!!!
[12:47:17] <A-L-P-H-A-3> is that good or bad?
[12:48:21] <les_w> that means that emc must clamp to ( xmaxaccel^2 +ymaxaccel^2 + zmaxaccel^2)^0.5
[12:48:40] <les_w> pseudocode...forgot the actual variable names
[12:48:50] <A-L-P-H-A-3> Oh...
[12:49:03] <A-L-P-H-A-3> so forced confinement to those specs.
[12:49:25] <les_w> If that is the case it just reduces to centripedal acceleration
[12:49:35] <les_w> which is circular motion
[12:50:23] <les_w> A check would be to run that with different accel clamps on each axis
[12:50:38] <les_w> and see if the circular corner warps
[12:50:46] <les_w> into an ellipse
[12:50:53] <les_w> or something
[12:50:58] <cradek> les_w: you don't run different axis accels on emc1 do you?
[12:51:28] <les_w> no, it would be just a check on what emc does
[12:51:31] <les_w> mathwise
[12:51:34] <cradek> ok
[12:51:44] <cradek> just asking because on emc1 it was pretty badly broken
[12:52:32] <les_w> So when someone asks us how to automatically round corners we can tell them what will happen by trying to do that simply by reducing .ini max accel on the axes
[12:53:18] <cradek> yes that definitely rounds
[12:53:44] <les_w> In my post to the list about that I had to say the rounding "might not be exactly circular"
[12:53:53] <les_w> with different axis values
[12:54:00] <les_w> but I just don't know
[12:54:17] <cradek> even with matching axis values it's not circular
[12:54:43] <cradek> but I agree on this right angle it looks pretty circular
[12:55:04] <les_w> sure does to me
[12:55:42] <cradek> but if jepler does 45 and 135 degree corners you certainly won't see circles anymore
[12:56:00] <les_w> clamping individual axis accels (not the vector magnitude) should not be circular
[12:56:50] <les_w> but if vector magnitude is clamped even different angles would be circular
[12:56:56] <les_w> could you try that?
[12:57:30] <jepler> unfortunately I need to be doing other things right now
[12:57:35] <les_w> oh ok
[12:57:42] <cradek> maybe you can get that by reducing the tooltip maxaccel (traj)
[12:57:45] <les_w> actually so do I
[12:57:52] <cradek> I'd have to think about it (and look at the code)
[12:57:54] <les_w> haha
[12:58:15] <cradek> (either way, this is the wrong way to generate the tool path you want)
[12:58:46] <les_w> Yes I sugested that cam is the place to round corners
[12:59:23] <les_w> but still corners get rounded automatically
[12:59:41] <les_w> depending on V^2/A
[12:59:45] <cradek> emc does a good job of approximating the path to keep feed up (like the spec says) but it's bad to rely on it to give you a certain path (other than the one you programmed)
[12:59:49] <les_w> seemingly in emc
[13:01:00] <cradek> fwiw I think we're in agreement
[13:03:21] <les_w> yeah....checking to see if the radius in jeff's run is in fact v^2/a=1^2/.3= 3.33 units
[13:03:54] <les_w> oh can't tell...but it should be
[13:04:53] <cradek> he could draw that circle with a g2 and see if the path follows it
[13:05:13] <les_w> yeah
[13:05:19] <cradek> or you could, if you install emc2
[13:05:45] <les_w> haha
[13:05:46] <skunkworks> :)
[13:05:48] <cradek> you're going to love halscope
[13:05:48] <les_w> yeah
[13:07:51] <les_w> oh well I just did not want to give incorrect info on a list post
[13:08:18] <les_w> I seem to have gotten it right
[13:42:05] <skunkworks> cradek: what are your thoughts on the high speed plots from yesterday les's ini
[13:47:00] <les_w> ha I really ought to be running them myself.....
[13:47:50] <les_w> but I may not get to mess with emc2 until I start the factory automation
[13:48:22] <les_w> Perhaps I should not have booked up the rest of my life with consulting huh....
[13:48:38] <SWP_Away> well - at least you may make enough money to retire ;)
[13:48:44] <SWP_Away> SWP_Away is now known as SWPadnos
[13:48:50] <les_w> ha I'll never retire
[13:49:08] <les_w> but being finacially independent would be ok
[13:49:13] <SWPadnos> then it's probably a good thing that you can keep yourself busy forthe rest of your life ;)
[13:49:29] <les_w> heh
[13:50:14] <les_w> I'll take this money thing for as long as it lasts anyway
[13:50:47] <Roguish> SWPadnos: up again and back at it. just listened to one Jacob Tau's 'tuning' lectures.
[13:50:52] <les_w> If I don't blow it on wine women and machine tools should be in pretty good shape
[13:50:57] <SWPadnos> heh
[13:51:16] <SWPadnos> Roguish, how was it? (never heard of him)
[13:51:20] <les_w> Roguish did you find the video useful?
[13:51:48] <Roguish> Jacob Tau is at Galil. also think Delta Tau.
[13:51:53] <les_w> Tal
[13:52:05] <Roguish> could be.
[13:52:29] <SWPadnos> ah. should be knowledgeable then ;)
[13:52:34] <Roguish> he is definitely one of the best in motion control. none better. maybe some as good.
[13:52:49] <Roguish> http://www.galilmc.com/training
[13:53:22] <Roguish> lots of really good stuff throughout the web site.
[13:53:30] <les_w> I've watched most all of them
[13:53:44] <les_w> years ago
[13:53:55] <Roguish> yes, it is Jacob Tal.
[13:54:20] <Roguish> videos are good refreshers.
[13:55:02] <les_w> yes and they have good detail. They actually show some system functions
[13:55:25] <Roguish> yes they do. real applications, not just theory bs.
[13:56:16] <les_w> I think the one you watched showed the consequences of using pid with a velocity mode amp
[13:56:22] <les_w> 4th order
[13:56:39] <les_w> and unstable
[13:56:51] <Roguish> hey, in chatzilla, how come every now and then one of your nicks changes to bold type?
[13:56:56] <les_w> Yhey mention that only PI should be used
[13:57:13] <jepler> Roguish: is it when we say your name?
[13:57:18] <jepler> (irssi does that)
[13:57:25] <Roguish> i think so.
[13:58:27] <Roguish> does it recognize the nicks? and bold them?
[13:58:50] <Roguish> ok
[13:59:06] <jepler> something like that (I don't use chatzilla0
[13:59:06] <jepler> )
[13:59:54] <SWPadnos> Roguish, this should be bold
[14:00:01] <Roguish> yes
[14:00:06] <SWPadnos> and this may be as well, dependiong on the chrome you're using
[14:00:08] <SWPadnos> oops
[14:00:15] <Roguish> with a 'bong' sound
[14:01:39] <Roguish> don't know what a 'chrome' is. a skin? i just use the default, what ever that is. just figured how to increase the font size so i can read it farther away.
[14:01:44] <SWPadnos> chatzilla -> preferences -> global settings -> global tab -? Sound events
[14:02:02] <SWPadnos> I prefer the "light" motif, myself
[14:03:51] <Roguish> ah, that's better.
[14:05:20] <SWPadnos> the hilighting feature is called "stalking" or similar. you can disable it if you like
[14:06:11] <Roguish> looks good to me. thanks. amazing what programmers can do.
[14:06:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[14:26:00] <skunkworks> damn satellite
[14:26:06] <skunkworks> ;)
[14:47:55] <dmessier> hello all
[14:48:29] <SWPadnos> bonjour dmessier. comment ça va?
[14:49:16] <dmessier> pas bien.... je m'ai fait mal au dos
[14:49:42] <SWPadnos> you have a bad DOS? ;)
[14:49:49] <dmessier> back
[14:50:10] <dmessier> spelling sucks when im in pain
[14:50:13] <SWPadnos> heh - my memory fades after these 20 years not speaking french
[14:50:42] <dmessier> that might happen
[15:24:38] <Roguish> anyone: what and where is there a config file for halscope?
[15:26:05] <jepler> Roguish: halscope writes one in the current directory when it exits
[15:26:20] <jepler> I think it's called ".scope.cfg"
[15:26:52] <jepler> if you start it using a menu item in AXIS, it gets put in the same directory as the .ini in use
[15:29:00] <Roguish> i'm using tkemc. running halscope from /etc/emc2
[15:30:07] <jepler> /etc/emc2 isn't writable by normal users, so if you're in that directory when you run halscope it won't be able to save a .scope.cfg
[15:30:43] <Roguish> guess not, jjust searched for the file.
[15:36:12] <jepler> btw we recommend making a copy of the sample configs .. directions here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?CustomizingConfigsOnUbuntu
[15:38:17] <Roguish> definitely working on a copy. changed to my 'home' directory to run halscope, no longer getting write error, but still cannot find the .cfg with a search
[15:38:51] <SWPadnos> note the leading . - ".scope.cfg"
[15:39:16] <jepler> how are you searching for it?
[15:39:28] <Roguish> the find file app
[15:39:41] <SWPadnos> terminal -> ls -ad .s*
[15:40:00] <Roguish> what does the leading '.' indicate?
[15:40:10] <jepler> files that start with a dot are "hidden"
[15:40:11] <SWPadnos> it gets hidden from ls and many guis ;)
[15:40:15] <jepler> many programs don't show them by default
[15:40:52] <jepler> for instance, "ls" doesn't show them unless you specify "ls -A" or "ls -a"
[15:41:20] <Roguish> ok, set file browser to show hidden, and voila!
[15:41:26] <jepler> ok, mystery solved
[16:12:46] <SWPadnos> heh - hi there Ray (?)
[16:13:09] <kerry__> Hi SWP
[16:13:28] <kerry__> downtown beijing now. darn long flight
[16:13:35] <SWPadnos> I can imagine
[16:13:56] <SWPadnos> what's the time there? (11:00, midnight, or 1:00 AM)
[16:13:59] <kerry__> midnight here
[16:14:09] <SWPadnos> ok, so 12 hours difference from here
[16:14:33] <SWPadnos> that's something like 18-20 hours in the air, right?
[16:14:49] <kerry__> Okay so if you dug a hole through the earth you migh indeed find it.'
[16:15:04] <SWPadnos> yep - straight down for me (except for that darned hemisphere thing ;) )
[16:15:29] <skunkworks> it is ray?
[16:15:37] <SWPadnos> ChinaRay ;)
[16:15:38] <kerry__> It is rayh
[16:15:54] <skunkworks> wow - quite a trip
[16:15:57] <kerry__> How you doing skunk
[16:16:35] <skunkworks> good - someone asked about you a few days ago as you have not been on for a while. Now we know :)
[16:17:35] <kerry__> I had a lot of work to do to get ready
[16:17:49] <skunkworks> work or pleasure?
[16:18:41] <kerry__> looking for a reasonalby low cost emc box with drives and power supplies and all.'
[16:19:09] <dmessier> cool.. ; )
[16:19:19] <skunkworks> nice
[16:19:40] <dmessier> can i place an order with you now??
[16:19:50] <kerry__> I really like the van sized disoplays. for machine control.''
[16:19:52] <dmessier> i trust ya
[16:19:57] <SWPadnos> if you can find the transformers and capacitors, that would make it easier
[16:20:12] <SWPadnos> cheap
[16:20:12] <kerry__> I know I'm wok=rker
[16:21:02] <dmessier> what kinda $$ you lookin' at??
[16:21:03] <SWPadnos> motors, too. did you look at the spam that was sent to the linuxcnc webmaster?
[16:21:20] <SWPadnos> (the one dealing woth motors, not all the pretty asian ladies ;) )
[16:21:59] <kerry__> those little displays seem like theylll handle a small mill dreally well./
[16:22:16] <kerry__> cant type worth a diddle tondight
[16:22:34] <SWPadnos> my problem must be contagious :)
[16:22:59] <SWPadnos> you said van sized displays - was there a typo in there?
[16:23:35] <dmessier> hand
[16:23:39] <dmessier> maybe??
[16:23:44] <SWPadnos> fan?
[16:23:44] <kerry_> the little ones that the kids watch in the back sear=t
[16:24:03] <SWPadnos> ah - little lcd displays for DVD players in cars (or airplanes)
[16:24:04] <dmessier> that could work slick...
[16:24:19] <skunkworks> I would say SWPadnos size is about as small as you want
[16:24:39] <SWPadnos> I'd agree with that, for the UIs that we like to use
[16:24:44] <kerry_> we would have to arrange the many things fo work all of enc with it
[16:24:56] <skunkworks> right - for axis anyways
[16:25:10] <SWPadnos> if you change things so that there's only one thing on the display at a time (similar to mini, but even more drastic) then a smaller display can be OK
[16:25:51] <dmessier> does it have to be so drastic??
[16:25:52] <SWPadnos> it makes the user go through a series of steps to do a lot of things, but that's often expected in a small embedded machine
[16:26:03] <SWPadnos> I'd think so, for a small 640x480 display (or smaller)
[16:26:24] <dmessier> understood
[16:26:24] <SWPadnos> a lot of those screens are actually below VGA resolution
[16:26:55] <dmessier> but most are at least vga compatible..
[16:27:03] <SWPadnos> it makes it harder to use touchscreens as well, since the size of a finger doesn't scale with the display ;)
[16:27:17] <SWPadnos> the interface isn't important, it's the number of pixels and the overall size
[16:28:02] <dmessier> axis would be way too loud...
[16:28:11] <Roguish> anyway to change the axis accel without shutting down emc?
[16:28:21] <SWPadnos> unless the 3 main sections were separated into separate screens
[16:28:49] <dmessier> and you chose an active section
[16:28:58] <SWPadnos> Roguish, I don't think so - I believe the TP reads those directly from the ini (could be wrong though)
[16:29:34] <Roguish> that seem to be the only place i've seen it. checked everythign in hal. oh wellllll
[16:29:40] <dmessier> with an update button to update the oter 2 windows
[16:30:20] <SWPadnos> those are used in HAL, for the PID component, but they're also used in the TP
[16:30:23] <SWPadnos> I think
[16:30:52] <skunkworks> bye ray. Have fun. (goverment probably just cut him off) ;)
[16:31:43] <Jymmm> they cut off his food stamps?
[16:32:06] <Jymmm> or "guvment cheese"
[16:34:12] <dmessier> i doubt it
[16:34:38] <dmessier> he's realized he's been up 30+ hrs
[16:34:59] <SWPadnos> and on a plane for most of that
[16:35:34] <Jymmm> and sitting in airports for longer than that
[16:35:55] <Jymmm> it's really sad that the time your sitting in an airport is long than flight time
[16:35:58] <dmessier> not alot of blood flow to body makes ya sleepy
[16:36:00] <SWPadnos> hmmm - for that length of flight, I'll bet he was on airplanes longer than in airports ;)
[16:36:01] <Jymmm> longer
[16:36:21] <dmessier> hopefully..
[16:36:34] <Jymmm> eh fucking bush
[16:36:36] <skunkworks> we went to ireland on a 777 I think - still stacked in like sardenes
[16:37:07] <dmessier> that plane can stack em in like cord wood
[16:37:08] <SWPadnos> that's not too bad a flight - only ~8 hours from Chicago to London
[16:37:40] <dmessier> in asia they get 500 ppl on it for short hops..
[16:37:41] <SWPadnos> gotta get row 30 - infinite legroom, and you're staring at a flight attendant ;)
[16:37:54] <SWPadnos> at least in the United configurations
[16:37:56] <dmessier> really...
[16:38:06] <dmessier> front.. back??
[16:38:20] <SWPadnos> yep - roght next to the bank of 4 lavatories and an exit row to boot
[16:38:45] <SWPadnos> it's at the end of the coach plus section, but there's a wideexit aisle there - it's like the front row
[16:39:32] <dmessier> dont try that seat in an Ambriar...,,, theres a stupid little stand up wall
[16:39:47] <dmessier> i had my legs over it... ; )
[16:39:48] <SWPadnos> of course, business or first are way more comfortable, but totally unaffordable
[16:39:49] <skunkworks> but then you have the responsiblity of running the emergency doors in the event of a crash ;)
[16:40:08] <SWPadnos> better me than some other bonehead ;)
[16:40:08] <Jymmm> skunkworks: That's ok, I'd be the first one out it
[16:40:23] <dmessier> open it and show them how to jump by being FIRST out
[16:40:32] <Jymmm> exactly
[16:40:41] <SWPadnos> well, open it, wait for the inflatable ramp, *then* jump ;)
[16:40:51] <SWPadnos> see - it's better for me to be there ;)
[16:40:55] <dmessier> get your own sorry ass out of the airplane
[16:41:16] <Jymmm> SWPadnos if your in water - screw the inflatable ramp
[16:41:18] <dmessier> but sometimes they dont come out..
[16:41:50] <dmessier> open & go for me.. im NOT waiting for an inflatable
[16:42:15] <dmessier> its only 25' max.
[16:42:22] <Jymmm> you hope =)
[16:42:34] <dmessier> if the L/G are still in tack
[16:42:45] <Jymmm> and you are not next to a cliff =)
[16:42:46] <SWPadnos> depends on the angle of the crash
[16:42:49] <dmessier> less if shes on her belly
[16:43:16] <dmessier> oh come on.. we'll be lookin' for a fat guy to have a bbq next... LOL
[16:43:31] <Jymmm> WILSON!!!
[16:43:41] <dmessier> LOL
[16:43:43] <SWPadnos> have you heard of the "Gimli Glider"
[16:44:04] <dmessier> yes.. refresh my memory though..
[16:44:06] <SWPadnos> http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
[16:45:10] <dmessier> yeah.. they forgot to fuel her up..
[16:45:13] <skunkworks> I wonder how many parashutes it would take to land a plane saftly
[16:45:29] <dmessier> cesna... 1 brs
[16:45:38] <dmessier> cessna
[16:45:41] <SWPadnos> well, a relatively small airliner - an Airbus A320 - is ~150000 pounds at takeoff ...
[16:46:00] <SWPadnos> the big ones are closer to 300k pounds
[16:46:10] <SWPadnos> that's a lot of downforce ;)
[16:46:20] <dmessier> there in lies the catch... under shut with fuel... is a VERY bad idea...
[16:46:55] <dmessier> the A380 is almost 1/2 a millin lbs
[16:48:27] <dmessier> we make a centerline gear for the a340 to allow landing om inferior runways. its a HUGE butterfly
[17:00:15] <skunkworks> http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
[17:00:31] <skunkworks> oops - wrong window
[17:00:39] <SWPadnos> [12:49:08]<SWPadnos>http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
[17:00:40] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:00:52] <SWPadnos> pretty freaky story, huh
[17:03:10] <skunkworks> a very good story.
[17:03:32] <skunkworks> can you imagine looking up and seeing a plane landing
[17:03:53] <SWPadnos> heh - not really
[17:09:13] <dmessier> we had a cessna land on the roof of our building at work once... we were right off the end of the runwaw at Buttonvill airport in Markham
[17:09:44] <dmessier> well.. not exactly land... he stopped there... :)
[17:09:47] <Jymmm> LOL oh gawd.... They piled into a van with all their tools. They reportedly ran out of fuel en-route
[17:10:15] <dmessier> they ran out at 26000'
[17:10:28] <Jymmm> read the sidenote at the bottom
[17:13:28] <dmessier> some one dropped the ball there..
[17:14:09] <dmessier> but to side slip a jetliner without power.. takes some NUTS
[17:14:38] <Jymmm> like he had a choice
[17:15:23] <dmessier> precisly... emergency.... is the mother of motivators...
[17:16:09] <Jymmm> I'm just surprised that it's still operational after that.
[17:16:18] <dmessier> how do YOU react in a panic/ emergency situation??
[17:16:39] <Jymmm> Me? VERY straight forward.
[17:17:03] <SWPadnos> like homer sipmson ;)
[17:17:05] <dmessier> if it only dropped the nose on the ground its a repairable aircraft
[17:17:08] <SWPadnos> simpson
[17:17:20] <Jymmm> Then freak out when it's all over.
[17:17:23] <dmessier> oh you panic.. i see.. like my wife.... LOL
[17:17:29] <SWPadnos> they mention that the aircraft was repaired for ~$1-2 million
[17:17:44] <SWPadnos> not me - jymmm ;)
[17:17:51] <dmessier> not bad for a 25 million dollar aircraft
[17:18:15] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I'll just knock your ass out and throw you in the truck.
[17:18:17] <SWPadnos> only $25M - I'd expect it to be closer to $80M
[17:18:20] <SWPadnos> heh.
[17:18:37] <dmessier> its equivilant to a new tranny in a newer car...
[17:18:43] <Jymmm> property/feelings be damned
[17:18:55] <SWPadnos> yeah, or a new taillight
[17:18:56] <dmessier> naw.. f18 is only 60 million
[17:19:47] <SWPadnos> 747 is ~$150M, and this is half the size ;)
[17:19:58] <SWPadnos> F18s are pretty small aircraft
[17:20:03] <SWPadnos> relative to passenger jets
[17:20:04] <dmessier> 40 million dollar pilot
[17:20:44] <dmessier> and they put "oh shit" handles in em... disposable aircraft... go figure..
[17:21:59] <Jymmm> just wait till they make a plastic plane
[17:23:05] <dmessier> many busines jets are already using composite tubes.. and some fuselage sections
[17:23:34] <dmessier> Tube is the backbone of the airplane
[17:24:04] <dmessier> sections attatch to the tube
[17:24:34] <SWPadnos> heh - reminds me of the magic disintegrating wing spar from the Pentagon crash
[17:24:50] <Jymmm> or the missing 5000 gallons of fuel
[17:25:09] <SWPadnos> and on and on and on and ...
[17:25:22] <Jymmm> http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php
[17:25:31] <SWPadnos> been there, seen that
[17:26:00] <SWPadnos> man - aluminum is expensive these days
[17:26:12] <Jymmm> SWPadnos go scrape a plane
[17:26:18] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:26:24] <SWPadnos> but they're plastic ;)
[17:26:34] <Jymmm> ROTFLMAO...
[17:26:44] <Jymmm> that was good SWPadnos
[17:27:12] <SWPadnos> ty, ty
[17:27:48] <les_w> yes I read that too
[17:28:09] <SWPadnos> the gimli glider thing or the pentagon crash video?
[17:28:19] <les_w> gimli
[17:28:29] <SWPadnos> good job by the pilots, I'd say
[17:28:33] <les_w> since I have had to do that
[17:28:38] <les_w> in a small plane
[17:28:39] <SWPadnos> in a 757?
[17:28:41] <SWPadnos> right
[17:28:50] <les_w> in a piper archer
[17:28:57] <SWPadnos> something that a person could actually control without power
[17:29:04] <SWPadnos> like - with wires and stuff ;)
[17:29:25] <les_w> yeah easily. Even slipped it just like they did
[17:29:48] <les_w> you come in hot and then slip it off when you know you have the runway made
[17:30:05] <les_w> slip it and raise the nose
[17:30:35] <SWPadnos> hey - non-sequitur question
[17:30:42] <les_w> ?
[17:30:56] <SWPadnos> I have a CT transformer that I want to turn into dual-secondary
[17:31:14] <les_w> yeah...
[17:31:15] <SWPadnos> do you know where to get that strange enamel tape or the wire clips they use?
[17:31:36] <les_w> the yellow stuff?
[17:31:55] <SWPadnos> yell-wish tape, and non-solder crimps that work on solid and stranded wire
[17:32:01] <SWPadnos> yellow-ish
[17:32:11] <les_w> let me check
[17:32:46] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure even what they're called (the crimp connectors)
[17:33:06] <SWPadnos> the one I took off was rectangular, and held 3 wires (of course)
[17:33:09] <les_w> http://www.pleo.com/tape/tape2.htm
[17:33:16] <les_w> that's the tape...nomex
[17:33:49] <les_w> that's what we used at a transformer company I had a job at long ago
[17:33:51] <SWPadnos> ok - looks about right (hard to tell from the small photo)
[17:33:58] <les_w> the clips I don't know
[17:34:09] <dmessier> no motrin all the time... i expect it though...
[17:34:11] <SWPadnos> right - high temp and good insulation
[17:35:19] <dmessier> the pentagon one is cool... makes ya think eh..
[17:35:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:35:34] <skunkworks> on servos - wouldn't low inertia motors be bettet than high inertia?
[17:35:39] <skunkworks> better
[17:35:44] <SWPadnos> yes
[17:35:47] <skunkworks> funny
[17:35:48] <SWPadnos> in general
[17:36:10] <les_w> they should be matched to the load inertia
[17:36:16] <les_w> for best economy
[17:36:30] <skunkworks> "axis motors are high inertia 29 in/lb dc motors." that is one of the selling points ;)
[17:36:43] <les_w> ???
[17:36:45] <SWPadnos> sounds like a bad thinko on someone's part
[17:36:55] <skunkworks> right
[17:36:56] <les_w> yeah.
[17:37:11] <les_w> doe they say in/lb?
[17:37:14] <SWPadnos> I have 29 in-lb "medium inertia" motors, I think ;)
[17:37:28] <skunkworks> yes also ;)
[17:37:45] <skunkworks> funny
[17:38:09] <SWPadnos> les - did I ask you the inertia / torque question yet?
[17:38:14] <SWPadnos> I think I did
[17:38:17] <les_w> ok so the writer does not know physics I guess
[17:38:45] <les_w> got a link?
[17:39:43] <skunkworks> this is a paper bid I got for some small cnc mills
[17:39:55] <les_w> ok
[17:39:57] <skunkworks> bridgeport style
[17:40:07] <les_w> what bridgeport size or smaller?
[17:40:21] <les_w> ah
[17:40:43] <skunkworks> one is bigger with a 40 taper spindle - same style
[17:41:12] <les_w> ok typical well matched servo for that will be about 500 in oz cont/1200 peak
[17:41:14] <les_w> or so
[17:41:31] <les_w> with rotor inertia about .2 oz in sec^2
[17:41:48] <les_w> that's 0.2
[17:42:08] <SWPadnos> right on target for me then, I guess
[17:42:34] <SWPadnos> so - do you know if the result of inertia / torque is radians/sec^2 or revs/sec^2?
[17:42:52] <SWPadnos> oops - torque/inertia
[17:43:38] <les_w> There's no law you have to inertia match, but the design is most economical if you do
[17:44:11] <les_w> normally I see it as torque/inertia...angular acceleration
[17:44:15] <les_w> in radians
[17:44:17] <SWPadnos> like load impedance matching - 1/2 of the power goes into the load when they're matched
[17:44:21] <SWPadnos> ok - radians. thanks
[17:44:24] <les_w> per second^2
[17:44:44] <SWPadnos> right. I figured it would be radians, since it's pure math, but wasn't sure
[17:45:11] <les_w> it is impedance matching
[17:45:27] <SWPadnos> right, just the mechanical equivalent
[17:45:33] <SWPadnos> of the electrical example
[17:45:36] <les_w> but usually only the inertial part of impedance is considered
[17:46:40] <les_w> you can run with impedance mismatched 5 to one or more
[17:47:01] <les_w> but it's either expensive or the motor inertia dominates over the load
[17:53:17] <les_w> getting a little rain now from alberto but need much more
[17:53:49] <skunkworks> hmm - I wonder if I could talk them into converting one of there existing mills to run emc
[17:53:52] <SWPadnos> you can have some of ours
[17:54:22] <les_w> no rain for 2 weeks
[17:54:32] <SWPadnos> basically no sun for 2 weeks here
[17:54:34] <les_w> till sprinkles now
[17:55:03] <Jymmm> les_w http://www.wadenelson.com/gimli.html
[17:55:16] <les_w> I read it!
[17:55:20] <Jymmm> k
[17:55:33] <les_w> And i've done it too....in a piper archer.
[17:55:50] <les_w> a little different....
[17:56:17] <Jymmm> in a bi-plane?
[17:56:21] <Jymmm> * Jymmm snickers
[17:56:24] <les_w> heh
[17:56:43] <SWPadnos> tri=plane
[17:57:01] <skunkworks> tri-2=plane
[17:57:03] <les_w> http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/000784.html
[17:57:14] <Jymmm> yeah... tri and land this bitch!
[17:58:29] <les_w> they are easy to land...even with the prop stopped
[17:59:12] <anonimasu> hello
[18:00:07] <les_w> hi anon
[18:00:13] <les_w> still in turkey?
[18:00:20] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:00:25] <anonimasu> sýppýng on a sanfrancýsco
[18:00:25] <les_w> neat
[18:01:02] <les_w> your i comes out as a y
[18:01:13] <anonimasu> heh weýrd
[18:01:19] <les_w> haha
[18:01:22] <anonimasu> I could copy and paste a real ý
[18:01:22] <cradek> I get a ý
[18:01:32] <anonimasu> cradek: ah thats better
[18:01:36] <SWPadnos> I also get a ý
[18:01:39] <anonimasu> they look lýke that over here
[18:01:53] <SWPadnos> do thei?
[18:01:57] <les_w> haha
[18:02:01] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:02:06] <anonimasu> they do Þ=
[18:02:10] <les_w> oh you are using a computer at the cafe?
[18:02:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:02:27] <anonimasu> were thýs '' close to brýngýng my laptop along wýth me
[18:02:42] <anonimasu> but I thought havýng a half computer free week ýs a good thýng
[18:03:04] <Jymmm> but I thought havýng a half computer free week ýs a good thýng
[18:03:12] <SWPadnos> thys ys veri weyrd
[18:03:19] <giacus> anonimasu: install UTF8 :D
[18:03:32] <Jymmm> the i's are accented y's
[18:03:33] <SWPadnos> almost as bad as beyng yn Wales
[18:03:43] <anonimasu> giacus: they have some weýrd polýcy settýng on the pc
[18:03:44] <anonimasu> s
[18:03:44] <giacus> ;)
[18:04:16] <giacus> how is the food there ?
[18:04:17] <jepler> that's OK, it reminds me of the opening titles to "Holy Grail"
[18:04:25] <giacus> I eard not very good ..
[18:04:25] <Jymmm> anonimasu wth is "A" San Francisco?
[18:04:35] <anonimasu> Jymmm: the only way would probably be to snag the passwd fýle and l00pht ýt.. but I kýnd of lack motývatýon to bother
[18:04:38] <SWPadnos> too bad we can't get the people in charge of the computers sacked ;)
[18:04:56] <anonimasu> Jymmm: a drýnk alcoholç.ç
[18:05:02] <anonimasu> cant remember whats ýn ýt ýt tastes nýce
[18:05:10] <Jymmm> anonimasu oh I dont care, just looks funny
[18:05:19] <giacus> :)
[18:05:26] <anonimasu> sorry Id try to fýx ýt but ýtd be a mess
[18:05:47] <Jymmm> no biggy... now that we know y is i, it's all good
[18:06:28] <giacus> next destination for me would be Thailand
[18:06:32] <giacus> or Cuba
[18:06:39] <giacus> cheap ..
[18:06:56] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:06:56] <Jymmm> I'd LOVE to hit Thailand, but the humidity would kill me big time!
[18:07:00] <anonimasu> cuba would be a nýce place
[18:07:04] <anonimasu> thaýland ýs nýce too
[18:07:09] <anonimasu> so ýs výetnam
[18:07:29] <giacus> yeah
[18:08:19] <anonimasu> yeah the food ýs good
[18:08:27] <giacus> nice
[18:09:30] <giacus> did you rent a car ? how you are moving
[18:10:00] <Jymmm> I knew someone once that has never been in a plane in his life, learned to fly from reading books, stole a plane from San Fernando, flew to SFO, and did a perfect landing to the awaiting cops.
[18:10:01] <anonimasu> boat
[18:10:13] <giacus> boat ? cool :D
[18:10:19] <anonimasu> we are stayýng ýn a lýttle place called turunc
[18:10:21] <anonimasu> near marmarýs
[18:10:44] <anonimasu> we arent movýng around too much
[18:11:05] <giacus> Jymmm: using a flight simulator ?
[18:11:40] <giacus> anonimasu: nice, enjoy
[18:11:53] <Jymmm> giacus: No, just by reading books
[18:12:17] <giacus> well pratice should be totally different ..
[18:12:48] <Jymmm> giacus this wasn't practice, he had NEVER EVER been in any kind of plane in his life.
[18:13:09] <giacus> strange thing
[18:13:14] <Jymmm> strange guy too
[18:13:37] <anonimasu> hm I wonder ýf thats sýmýlýar
[18:13:42] <anonimasu> flyýng ýn a flýghtsým to real flyýng
[18:13:43] <Jymmm> but I have to give the guy credit to learn from reading and make a perfect landing
[18:15:34] <giacus> anonimasu: so, you could go to fish a bit there around
[18:15:41] <giacus> I love that sport
[18:15:46] <giacus> in sea
[18:15:56] <anonimasu> not really just trýp boats here
[18:15:59] <anonimasu> and between marmarýs
[18:16:05] <giacus> ferry ?
[18:16:06] <anonimasu> thýs výllage ýs really small
[18:16:12] <anonimasu> smaller
[18:16:17] <giacus> oh .. :)
[18:16:27] <anonimasu> ýts a 45mýn boatrýde here
[18:16:33] <anonimasu> there one every hour
[18:17:13] <giacus> is it a small island ?
[18:17:20] <anonimasu> no a small výllage
[18:17:30] <anonimasu> separated by mountaýns
[18:17:35] <anonimasu> lots of englýsh pople around here
[18:17:52] <giacus> good
[18:18:15] <Jymmm> anonimasu but giacus only speaks ancient chinese
[18:18:19] <anonimasu> but hardly any swedýsh people
[18:18:21] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:18:28] <giacus> Jymmm: haha really
[18:18:33] <anonimasu> I know ýve seen that on occasýon
[18:18:38] <giacus> I talk as a monkey
[18:18:43] <anonimasu> ýts been pretty raýny today
[18:18:51] <giacus> that's my protocol
[18:18:53] <anonimasu> hopýng for better weather tomorrow
[18:18:57] <giacus> universal :D
[18:19:12] <giacus> anonimasu: got the rain ?
[18:19:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[18:19:30] <anonimasu> at home ýts 30c
[18:19:40] <giacus> here clouds yestarday, good sun today
[18:19:58] <giacus> the weather should be moving from west to east ..
[18:20:05] <giacus> you should get the sun soon :P
[18:20:10] <anonimasu> hehe I hope so
[18:20:28] <giacus> sure
[18:20:56] <giacus> to be honest, also here is a strange season
[18:21:07] <anonimasu> we leave at frýday mornýng
[18:21:12] <giacus> not very hot as the years of the past
[18:21:13] <anonimasu> so at thursday we go to marmarýs
[18:21:24] <anonimasu> ýt sucks ýts a large cýty wýth lots of tourýsts
[18:21:34] <giacus> I agree
[18:22:16] <giacus> I'd like to visit marocco, but not at this time
[18:22:26] <anonimasu> hm restless thre?
[18:22:34] <giacus> it could be very cheap right now
[18:23:21] <giacus> here ?
[18:23:28] <anonimasu> ther
[18:23:30] <anonimasu> e
[18:23:43] <giacus> nah, calm
[18:24:17] <giacus> restless is naples, where k4st lives
[18:24:22] <giacus> and around there
[18:24:25] <giacus> not here
[18:24:29] <anonimasu> hm thats bad
[18:24:50] <giacus> 500 km away
[18:25:58] <giacus> shot some photo ! :D
[18:26:22] <anonimasu> no camera
[18:26:28] <giacus> ouch
[18:26:40] <anonimasu> weve been here 5 týmes before so there ýsnt much new
[18:26:41] <giacus> bad
[18:26:43] <anonimasu> just to slack
[18:27:05] <giacus> are you there for work ?
[18:27:15] <anonimasu> no
[18:27:23] <anonimasu> Im here for restýng
[18:27:40] <giacus> and arent tired to came back to the same place ?
[18:27:50] <giacus> I'd be :(
[18:27:57] <anonimasu> not really thre ýsnt much to do except lýe on the beach
[18:27:58] <anonimasu> we
[18:28:06] <anonimasu> err we have been around lots
[18:29:54] <anonimasu> lots of dýff places but thýs one ýs close enough to leave for a week and o nothýng at all
[18:30:55] <skunkworks> giacus: any video updates?
[18:31:09] <giacus> skunkworks: sorry, nope
[18:31:15] <anonimasu> giacus: ýf you have a chance go to ýndýa someday
[18:31:18] <skunkworks> thats ok ;)
[18:31:20] <anonimasu> thats a cool trýp
[18:31:35] <giacus> working on blender right now with penguins and 3D objects
[18:31:53] <giacus> anonimasu: I'll consider it
[18:31:59] <anonimasu> =)
[18:32:10] <anonimasu> though flyýng there and such ýs pretty expensýve but well worth ýt
[18:32:40] <giacus> wanna know a weird thing ?
[18:32:50] <giacus> i'm very near to the greece
[18:33:08] <giacus> as geographical position
[18:33:21] <giacus> I never seen the greece :(
[18:34:16] <giacus> few months ago I was thinking to Egypt
[18:34:17] <dmessier> im very near the US... but only go if i HAVE to...
[18:34:21] <giacus> changed idea ..
[18:34:40] <giacus> but id would be cooool
[18:34:44] <giacus> also marocco
[18:34:48] <anonimasu> hm egypt was ok
[18:35:09] <giacus> anna is scared
[18:35:20] <anonimasu> why?
[18:35:30] <anonimasu> bombýngs?
[18:35:34] <giacus> yeah
[18:35:39] <anonimasu> greece ýs nýce too a být expnsýve
[18:35:41] <dmessier> my wife liked/disliked egypt.. the smells apparently
[18:36:01] <anonimasu> dmessier: seems lýke your wýfe havent been around that much
[18:36:03] <anonimasu> =)
[18:36:25] <dmessier> it was 1980 or so...
[18:36:29] <anonimasu> ah!
[18:36:41] <anonimasu> mýght explaýn ýt
[18:36:46] <dmessier> si
[18:37:54] <anonimasu> thýs place has moved decades ýn 10 years or so
[18:37:54] <dmessier> went with her folks... dad was offered jewelry sores for her... green eyed straberry blond in the desert...
[18:38:08] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:38:10] <dmessier> stores
[18:38:20] <anonimasu> they wanted to trade my ex for camels =)
[18:38:23] <anonimasu> I should have agreedç
[18:38:29] <dmessier> burnt to a crisp
[18:38:33] <giacus> :)
[18:38:34] <dmessier> LOL
[18:38:43] <anonimasu> serýously =)
[18:38:56] <anonimasu> quýte frankly they were just kýddýng
[18:39:05] <jepler> it's hard to take you seriously with all your ç and ý
[18:39:19] <giacus> haha
[18:39:33] <dmessier> not these guys... she is very easy on the eyes... ; ) and im keeping her
[18:39:34] <anonimasu> jepler: sorry =)
[18:39:55] <anonimasu> hehe mýne broke up after the fýrst week there..
[18:40:16] <dmessier> that sucks...
[18:40:19] <anonimasu> now I regret the relatýonshýp at all.
[18:40:36] <anonimasu> dýdnt expect her to drag me to egypt and suddenly end ýt all
[18:40:53] <anonimasu> worst thýng so far ýn my lýfe
[18:41:07] <anonimasu> ah well crap happensçç
[18:41:22] <dmessier> she went to greece .. just as we met... 3wks... lasted 2.. come home with a buddy of mine who's g/f was expectin'
[18:41:57] <anonimasu> who dýd
[18:42:02] <dmessier> find a nice egyptian lady... ; )
[18:42:05] <anonimasu> your wýfe or your gf?
[18:42:12] <anonimasu> or your ex
[18:42:18] <dmessier> my pre wife
[18:42:42] <anonimasu> ah atleast you werent stuck there for 8 days wýth a cold sýlence
[18:43:00] <anonimasu> or were you?
[18:43:13] <anonimasu> or dýd she leave thre wýth your frýend?
[18:43:14] <dmessier> no i went water siing in soo st. marie...
[18:43:24] <anonimasu> what?
[18:43:34] <dmessier> no she didtnt know i knew hom
[18:43:37] <dmessier> him
[18:43:43] <anonimasu> hm ok
[18:43:54] <anonimasu> I dont thýnk Ive regretted anythýng as much
[18:44:05] <anonimasu> I shouldnt have left for egpyt =)
[18:44:30] <Jymmm> I have ZERO desire to go to egypt...
[18:44:39] <anonimasu> but what can you do when the sky ýs blue and clear and suddenly ýt starts to raýn sulfur..
[18:44:42] <dmessier> when they showed at the airpor i was surprised to see them together... and hear their story of getteing off the boat and the to an airport
[18:44:51] <Jymmm> Love to goto N/S India though - for the food of course =)
[18:45:04] <anonimasu> n/s ?
[18:45:15] <anonimasu> I dont know that abbrevýatýon
[18:45:15] <Jymmm> North South, totally different foods
[18:45:19] <anonimasu> ah yeah
[18:45:22] <anonimasu> thats cool
[18:45:45] <dmessier> i cant stomach too much of that..
[18:45:53] <anonimasu> never been to the north the vacatýons goýng there were way too expensýve
[18:46:01] <anonimasu> or was ýt south
[18:46:05] <Jymmm> Lots of Indian ppl here in Silicon Valley, learned a lot about the various foods. still can't order crap from a menu though =)
[18:46:10] <anonimasu> we went to goa both týmes we wer there
[18:46:30] <giacus> uhm
[18:46:32] <dmessier> i wanna got napal... possibly make base camp
[18:46:39] <Jymmm> so it's "all you can eat" places and try a bit of everything.
[18:46:46] <anonimasu> hehe
[18:46:53] <anonimasu> I need to jet..
[18:46:57] <Jymmm> Not the BEST way to enjoy Indian food though.
[18:46:58] <anonimasu> catch you all later
[18:47:02] <jepler> bye anonimasu
[18:47:03] <Jymmm> hasta
[18:47:04] <anonimasu> and possýbly ýn a better charset
[18:47:14] <dmessier> wouldnt it be cool to have a v22
[18:47:16] <giacus> Jymmm: I was very hungry for 20 days there :/
[18:47:20] <Jymmm> were used to it now, change and we wont understnad you
[18:47:32] <anonimasu> lol
[18:47:33] <dmessier> or a ba609
[18:47:34] <anonimasu> laters
[18:47:34] <Jymmm> giacus you dont like curry?
[18:47:58] <giacus> Jymmm: the very bad thing I tried was a ciurro
[18:48:01] <giacus> or churro
[18:48:08] <giacus> bleach :/
[18:48:09] <dmessier> hes messed me UP
[18:48:18] <Jymmm> churro? You mean the pastry covered with cinnamon sugar?
[18:48:25] <giacus> yeah
[18:48:33] <Jymmm> It's just fried dough
[18:48:42] <giacus> with a very strange colour, violet
[18:48:42] <Jymmm> like a donut
[18:48:58] <Jymmm> doens't sound like a "churo" to me
[18:49:18] <giacus> it was looking like a spanish snack
[18:49:18] <Jymmm> The ones here are light brown, due to the cinnamon
[18:49:27] <giacus> I was to hollywood
[18:49:45] <Jymmm> http://www.churros.com/churros.htm
[18:49:50] <dmessier> designer one...
[18:49:51] <giacus> found an italian restaurant after 12 days ..
[18:50:13] <Jymmm> giacus where was this? India?
[18:50:13] <giacus> in S. Monica, but spaghetti was very bad :(
[18:50:20] <Jymmm> oh LA
[18:50:27] <giacus> yeah
[18:50:42] <Jymmm> giacus sounds like food poisoning
[18:51:01] <giacus> phone..
[18:51:10] <Jymmm> ...sex
[18:53:52] <giacus> back
[18:54:01] <Jymmm> bah... I got to take some photos, but I need to setup lighting. I need a studio =(
[18:54:10] <les_w> ah ordering some stuff from edmund opticl...expensive
[18:54:12] <giacus> Jymmm: to be honest, I never found a food better than italian food
[18:54:24] <les_w> hey I need more dippy birds!!
[18:54:24] <Jymmm> giacus Thai food is awesome
[18:54:28] <giacus> that's the only good thing remain here around ..
[18:54:40] <Jymmm> les_w lol
[18:54:51] <giacus> we lost cars industry, lost all ..
[18:54:52] <les_w> they have a new one
[18:55:02] <giacus> also lost soccer lately
[18:55:07] <giacus> but not food !
[18:55:20] <Jymmm> les_w how many do you have now?
[18:55:22] <giacus> I also like france food
[18:55:34] <giacus> hey les_w
[18:55:57] <les_w> http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3081521
[18:56:02] <les_w> hey jacky
[18:56:33] <les_w> I have none...last one got broken
[18:56:42] <giacus> hehe cool
[18:57:01] <les_w> That's a fancy one
[18:57:58] <giacus> http://www.muranonet.com/
[18:58:08] <Jymmm> I needs some PLASTIC fiber optic cable
[18:58:14] <giacus> I seen something of nice in venice
[18:58:18] <Jymmm> aka... the cheap stuff
[18:58:21] <giacus> about glass
[18:58:58] <giacus> bought a tropical fish years ago
[18:59:28] <giacus> when was with my first wife
[18:59:35] <giacus> it exploded :D
[18:59:41] <les_w> ha
[19:00:02] <giacus> les_w: was talking about holydays
[19:00:18] <giacus> are you thinking to came in EU or not ?
[19:00:33] <les_w> well, If I can buy UVC optical flats...I guess I can buy an "upscale" dippy bird for $69.
[19:00:45] <giacus> not for now I suppose.. you seems very busy
[19:00:53] <Jymmm> les_w: Just place outside your reach =)
[19:00:54] <les_w> I would like to come over at some point yes
[19:01:24] <les_w> actually I would like to live there part of the time
[19:01:39] <giacus> :)
[19:01:57] <les_w> Let's see how much money I make first heh
[19:02:27] <giacus> you should have some friend in travels companies
[19:02:33] <giacus> ;)
[19:04:06] <giacus> Jymmm: got tomatoes of 10 cm here
[19:04:16] <Jymmm> Yuck!
[19:04:19] <les_w> mmm
[19:04:26] <Jymmm> * Jymmm dont like raw tomatoes
[19:04:36] <Jymmm> too acidic
[19:04:48] <les_w> no tomatoes yet but lots of plants
[19:04:49] <giacus> woo I love tomatoes
[19:04:57] <les_w> jymm try yellow ones
[19:05:16] <les_w> I have about 20 plants
[19:05:18] <giacus> but from my garden
[19:05:23] <les_w> yeah
[19:05:42] <giacus> no ogm here around :)
[19:06:05] <les_w> I am growing pure organic this year
[19:06:31] <giacus> that's really good
[19:06:48] <les_w> The only thing I put on them is bordeaux mixture
[19:06:59] <les_w> "organic" fungicide
[19:07:08] <les_w> otherwise they will all die
[19:07:30] <giacus> yeah, my mother also use something like that
[19:07:54] <les_w> I say "organic" because it really isn't
[19:08:30] <les_w> a mixture of copper sulfate pentahydrate, calcium hydroxide, and water
[19:08:39] <giacus> les_w: dunno, I'm not expert with it
[19:08:48] <les_w> I read up on it
[19:09:15] <les_w> for some reason it is approved for certified organic foods here
[19:09:41] <les_w> must use something or all tomatos and potatos are killed by late blight
[19:10:00] <giacus> yeah
[19:10:25] <giacus> but there are gardens where a tomatoes comes up in few days O_O
[19:10:36] <giacus> that's not so natural
[19:10:40] <les_w> mine are growing fast
[19:10:47] <giacus> how much ?
[19:10:56] <giacus> how many time*
[19:11:12] <les_w> I would check them but there is rain now from tropical storm alberto now
[19:11:37] <giacus> mm understood
[19:11:46] <les_w> oh, first ripe tomatoes in about 60 days from planting seeds
[19:11:59] <giacus> dinner time for me, be back soon ..
[19:12:01] <giacus> later
[19:12:03] <les_w> ok
[19:12:05] <les_w> later
[19:24:59] <Jymmm> I found a place that mfg's plastic fiber cable, but sells in bulk and doens't have like 2' samples.
[19:25:19] <Jymmm> 20'/each sample kit for $50
[19:28:57] <fenn> les_w: reading the logs... it's not a circular blend
[19:49:25] <les_w> was typing fenn
[19:49:35] <les_w> looks pretty circular yo me
[19:49:40] <les_w> to
[19:49:47] <les_w> in jeff's run
[19:51:14] <les_w> if vector accel is clamped by emc it should be a circle
[19:51:39] <les_w> If individual axis accel is clamped I think it would not be circular
[19:52:08] <SWPadnos> it'probably s circular when you have the same F in both segments, and the corner is symmetric about a 45 degree angle
[19:52:14] <SWPadnos> s/s/is/
[19:52:48] <les_w> perhaps
[19:52:57] <les_w> I ought to work out the math
[19:53:42] <SWPadnos> if I remember correctly, all axes are clamped to the highest fraction of the requested feedrate that can be attained by all axes
[19:54:11] <SWPadnos> so if X accel/vel limits the move, all axes get clamped to the XMax/requestedX fraction
[19:54:33] <les_w> but I think even at 45 with symmetry individual axis clamping would result in non circular motion
[19:54:52] <SWPadnos> all axes are clamped to the lowest common denominator
[19:54:58] <les_w> because...lets say for a 90 degree corner....
[19:55:04] <SWPadnos> (err - metaphorically, not mathemnatically ;) )
[19:57:14] <les_w> half way around the arc VECTOR accel could be 1.414 times in magnitude the axis clamp value, no?
[19:57:37] <SWPadnos> yes, it can be unless the TRAJ max_accel is set lower
[19:57:46] <les_w> yeah
[19:58:12] <cradek> the max vel and accel *along the vector* is calculated, that acc/vel/vector is sent into the planner
[19:58:43] <cradek> the vectors are planned individually (accel, cruise, decel) and the decel/accel of adjacent vectors overlap
[19:59:56] <les_w> I suspect what it's doing will result in circular corners for any angle
[20:00:07] <les_w> as long as axis accels are the same
[20:00:14] <les_w> max accels I mean
[20:00:48] <SWPadnos> I suspect that the total delta V needs to be the same as well, for circular corners
[20:01:11] <SWPadnos> it should be ellipsoid if the deltaV or max accels are different
[20:01:21] <les_w> yes
[20:01:22] <jepler> because the accel ramps are linear, I think that particular blend follows this curve from t=0 to t=1: x(t) = k*(1-t)^2, y(t) = k*t^2
[20:02:47] <les_w> yes linear ramping of axis accels with axes 90 degrees out of phase will be a circle
[20:03:07] <les_w> if velocity is held constant
[20:03:17] <les_w> vector velocity
[20:03:31] <jepler> velocity isn't constant, though. In the graph, the XYvel is a kind of curve too
[20:03:41] <les_w> wait velocity is always a vector haha
[20:03:52] <les_w> oh really?
[20:03:54] <SWPadnos> heh
[20:04:13] <jepler> dx ramps down, dy ramps up, and the magnitude of the velocity is sqrt(dx*dx + dy*dy)
[20:04:23] <les_w> velocity along the arc is not constant?
[20:04:37] <jepler> so yeah, it dips down, probably to 1/sqrt(2) or something
[20:05:00] <les_w> oooh
[20:05:35] <jepler> the purple line in http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/blend-lowaccel.png
[20:05:36] <SWPadnos> it'll depend on the max accels, I think
[20:05:42] <les_w> looking
[20:06:37] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/blends2.png
[20:06:39] <les_w> ah but that is time parametrized
[20:07:18] <cradek> I'm pretty sure the acute one isn't circular
[20:07:44] <les_w> it very well may not be.....
[20:09:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra> g'night
[20:09:23] <les_w> But if the path was constant velocity with linear accel/time ramps It should be a circle
[20:10:41] <les_w> kinda depends on how emc clamps
[20:10:54] <cradek> I told you
[20:11:06] <les_w> yeah
[20:13:16] <cradek> sorry, not being difficult, I just figured if you want to talk about the algorithm I should explain how it works
[20:16:16] <les_w> well this is just to answer that list question about how to easily round corners....my answer was to just turn down accel, but the cam program would be a better place to control it.
[20:16:29] <cradek> I agree totally
[20:17:01] <cradek> but does he really want round corners, or does he want to keep the feed up?
[20:17:04] <SWPadnos> I think the question was directed at issues with cutter comp,since th gu mentioned "needing to round the corners for emc2", which makes no sense
[20:17:14] <SWPadnos> s/th gu/the guy/
[20:17:23] <les_w> let me check his post...
[20:17:35] <cradek> I guess I didn't even read it...
[20:17:59] <SWPadnos> "Most customers supply drawings of parts without actually drawing the rounded corners EMC2 requires as this rounding is largely negligible."
[20:18:06] <cradek> ohhhh
[20:18:21] <SWPadnos> afaik, emc2 doesn't give a damn about rounding corners ;)
[20:18:26] <cradek> yes he's asking about inside cutter comp on acute corners
[20:18:48] <SWPadnos> which is silly, because elsewhere, he mentions the 30 micron "cutter diameter"
[20:19:00] <SWPadnos> that would give nice sharp corners
[20:19:04] <les_w> he says "making the rounded corners emc requires"
[20:19:05] <SWPadnos> inside or out
[20:19:07] <les_w> hmm
[20:19:11] <cradek> but the part would be 60u undersized
[20:19:18] <SWPadnos> true
[20:19:29] <cradek> he's talkinga bout requiring arcs at the corners if you're cutting inside the corner with comp
[20:19:44] <cradek> ... I think
[20:19:49] <SWPadnos> could be
[20:20:09] <les_w> not much comp with a 30 micron beam heh
[20:20:12] <cradek> he should use "offset" in autocad
[20:20:26] <cradek> heh
[20:20:33] <cradek> that's what I do instead of using cutter comp
[20:20:36] <SWPadnos> I suppose if you're cutting 200 micron parts, it could be an issue ;)
[20:20:49] <les_w> well most cam has cut outside, cut inside, and cut centerline
[20:20:49] <cradek> I guess the part is 30u undersized, not 60u
[20:20:54] <skunkworks> cradek: me also. Never had cutter comp
[20:21:18] <cradek> someday I'll learn to use it
[20:21:43] <jepler> I wanted to figure out how to use it for cutting out eagle-generated circuit boards
[20:21:46] <les_w> I use it, but always in cam.
[20:21:58] <jepler> so I can use the thin line instead of the width-of-end-mill line at the board edge
[20:22:01] <jepler> but I couldn't figure out the entering cut
[20:22:39] <cradek> the ngc manual shows a simple approach - coming into a corner of the cut from outside
[20:23:55] <jepler> argh, I forget how to do the "chain rule" to calculate derivatives
[20:23:58] <jepler> man, I used to know calculus
[20:24:01] <SWPadnos> you can use a collinear move as the lead-in, I think
[20:25:08] <les_w> do loop on outside corners...
[20:27:03] <jepler> this curve (the emc2 blend) must be a hyperbola, because it's order-2, and it's not an ellipse or a parabola
[20:27:47] <jepler> or else I'm mistaken and it is a parabola
[20:29:00] <fenn> hmm axis's low sampling rate seems to be getting in the way: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot-g3.png
[20:29:04] <les_w> trying to do dy/dx from dy/dt and dx/dt etc?
[20:29:44] <jepler> yeah, something like that
[20:30:14] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/blend3.png
[20:30:29] <cradek> this is the blend path (red) and a matching arc (cyan)
[20:30:46] <fenn> thats quite a bit more difference
[20:30:53] <les_w> looking
[20:31:08] <jepler> I think the blend function is y = sqrt(1-x)-1)**2
[20:31:10] <jepler> in this case
[20:31:23] <jepler> my gnuplot of circle vs this looks like cradek's plot of circle vs blend
[20:32:02] <jepler> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gnuplot.png
[20:32:16] <cradek> very much so
[20:32:40] <fenn> nice work jepler
[20:32:47] <les_w> looks hyperbolic I agree
[20:32:55] <jepler> but what kind of curve is y = (sqrt(1-x)-1)**2 ?
[20:33:09] <cradek> heh
[20:33:12] <cradek> * cradek looks at les
[20:33:16] <jepler> maybe it's not a conic section at all, with the sqrts in there
[20:33:35] <les_w> might not be
[20:33:37] <jepler> one time I tried to simplify it I got y - sqrt(4y) + 1
[20:33:47] <jepler> then I got confused
[20:33:48] <les_w> let me check
[20:33:59] <jepler> well, I was confused all along
[20:34:07] <fenn> google is pretty useless for equations
[20:34:45] <les_w> well for a circle x^2+ y^2=r so
[20:36:05] <les_w> y=sqrt(r-x^2)
[20:37:12] <les_w> so not a circle
[20:37:15] <les_w> let me see
[20:39:53] <jepler> mathematicians clearly have too much free time: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ConwaysConstant.html
[20:40:12] <SWPadnos> I think that's been clear since the days of Copernicus ;)
[20:40:18] <les_w> and not a hyperbola
[20:41:29] <fenn> jepler how did you come up with this equation?
[20:42:37] <cradek> I'm still hoping it's a parabola
[20:43:16] <jepler> fenn: dx ramps down from 1 to 0 while dy ramps up from 0 to 1. integrate to get x = (1-t)^2 y = t^2 (I think). solve for x = f(y)
[20:44:04] <cradek> or y=f(x) even?
[20:44:15] <jepler> one or the other
[20:44:18] <jepler> whichever is easier
[20:50:18] <les_w> I got y= 2-x-2sqrt(1-x)
[20:53:01] <fenn> they look equivalent on gnuplot
[20:55:14] <jepler> rotate it 45 degrees
[20:55:40] <les_w> it's kinda a circle pulled with a parabola
[20:56:09] <jepler> and solve for y' = f(x')
[20:56:33] <les_w> I cannot get it to take the form of a circle, parabola, or hyperbola
[20:56:56] <les_w> in fact I don't think it is a conic.
[20:58:22] <les_w> if it were a hyperbola and a smooth path the blend would take infinite time
[20:58:44] <jepler> yeah
[20:59:10] <les_w> because the hyperbola is asymtotically approaching two lines
[21:00:31] <SWPadnos> it might be easier to analyze (though possibly harder to generalize) if the path involves accel in only one direction, such as when milling a '>' shape
[21:00:55] <SWPadnos> theoretically, Y vel should remain constant for that path
[21:01:14] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: that is messed up by kins
[21:01:43] <SWPadnos> though it would need to increase if constant velocity is needed, since X would be slowing down
[21:01:51] <alex_joni> right
[21:02:02] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, right - that mess-up is what peple are analyzing now, I think ;)
[21:02:12] <SWPadnos> ie, what form is the interpolation
[21:02:35] <les_w> constant accel in one axis with constant velocity in another is classic frictionless projectile motion
[21:02:38] <les_w> a parabola
[21:02:42] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: afaik interpolation is done in world view
[21:02:56] <SWPadnos> yes
[21:03:12] <SWPadnos> but limited by mechanics in the form of accel and vel limits
[21:04:38] <jepler> isn't this (the 90 degree turn in g0x0y0z0 / g1x1 / g1y1) a constant acceleration of x'' = -k, y'' = k?
[21:05:47] <les_w> ought to be
[21:05:57] <jepler> the problem is that none of us can manipulate it into being a parabola
[21:06:08] <les_w> right
[21:07:25] <jepler> I think the key is to rotate it 45 degrees and then solve for y' = f(x') .. then the focus and vertex of the parabola will be along the line x'=b or y'=b (depending on the direction of rotation) and everything will turn out nicely
[21:07:25] <les_w> not in spatial coordinates anyway
[21:07:37] <les_w> yeah
[21:08:19] <les_w> trapezoidal blends are always parabolic in TIME
[21:08:24] <les_w> for one axis
[21:08:35] <les_w> the position that is
[21:10:25] <fenn> gee this is weird.. i must be doing something wrong - there's no blending at all when i rotate it 45 degrees (with g64p0 on)
[21:10:46] <les_w> you mean no arc?
[21:10:54] <fenn> it stops at the corner
[21:11:09] <les_w> with the same max accels?
[21:11:12] <fenn> yes
[21:11:19] <les_w> that can't be right
[21:11:46] <les_w> you mean it makes a sharp corner?
[21:12:27] <les_w> yeah velocity at the corner would have to be zero
[21:13:45] <les_w> I think it has a filter to go to exact stop mode for angles over 90 degrees
[21:13:47] <fenn> would someone else run this code and look at it?:
[21:13:49] <fenn> g64p0
[21:13:49] <fenn> g0x0y0z0
[21:13:49] <fenn> g1x1f100
[21:13:49] <fenn> g1y1f100
[21:13:49] <fenn> g0x0y0z0
[21:13:50] <fenn> g1x.5y.5f100
[21:13:52] <fenn> g1x0y1f100
[21:13:53] <fenn> m2
[21:14:29] <SWPadnos> shouldn't it not blend in G64P0 mode, or am I totally screwed up?
[21:14:40] <SWPadnos> or maybe there's a third option
[21:14:50] <fenn> g64p0 is for compatability with old-style g64
[21:14:57] <alex_joni> p0 lets it blend as much as it can
[21:15:03] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:15:12] <SWPadnos> no tolerance, just keep up the speed
[21:15:16] <alex_joni> but still constant speed
[21:15:19] <skunkworks> g64 is the same as g64p0?
[21:15:51] <alex_joni> fenn: as SWPadnos said, you probablycan keep constant when you rotate it to 45 degs
[21:15:54] <fenn> it still does it with p.05
[21:16:13] <SWPadnos> and the accel is something like 0.5?
[21:16:24] <alex_joni> fenn: I suspect it will for any value
[21:16:26] <fenn> stock axis.ini - accell is 20
[21:16:40] <SWPadnos> ok - you need low accel to test this out, I think
[21:16:49] <alex_joni> the idea is that it will only cut corners if it NEEDS to
[21:16:50] <les_w> yeah
[21:17:05] <les_w> jeff used .3 i think
[21:17:11] <fenn> why does it blend one corner and not the other?
[21:17:19] <les_w> he had feed override at 20%
[21:17:26] <fenn> no matter how far i zoom in it's still a sharp corner - is this a sampling artifact or something?
[21:17:44] <alex_joni> no
[21:18:34] <les_w> numerical truncation could make the exact stop 90 degree filter go with some orientations
[21:19:10] <les_w> due to the math library using maclauren series to calculate trig functions
[21:19:13] <SWPadnos> so make the interim point x0.4y0.5
[21:19:30] <SkunkworksD> logger_aj: bookmark
[21:19:30] <SkunkworksD> See http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-06-13#T21-19-30
[21:20:01] <SWPadnos> les_w, the math library very likely uses the intrinsic trig functions - is that series used in the coprocessor?
[21:21:07] <les_w> most things I have seen use a taylor's series expanded about zero....
[21:21:38] <les_w> yeah I would imagine that is in the coprocessor
[21:22:42] <skunkworks> they both blend in 2.0.1
[21:23:46] <les_w> looked it up...yeah uses taylor's series
[21:23:57] <SWPadnos> ok
[21:24:26] <fenn> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot2.png
[21:25:04] <skunkworks> ouch - worked in head as of last friday
[21:25:04] <fenn> on the lower right you can see it does a tiny little bit of blending (the yellow dot)
[21:25:46] <fenn> that is with accel at 0.3, shouldn't it be changing the radius of the blend also when i change the accel?
[21:26:04] <les_w> yeah
[21:26:08] <fenn> i'm changing the trajectory accel btw
[21:26:21] <les_w> or min radius anyway
[21:27:11] <skunkworks> so your traj accel is lower than your individual axis accels?
[21:27:15] <les_w> damn I need new glasses. a 90 degree angle does not look like 90...and changes if I tilt my head!
[21:27:17] <fenn> right
[21:27:50] <skunkworks> there used to be funny issues with that - what happens if you lower the individual axises accels to match?
[21:28:26] <skunkworks> btw what is the command to update from csv?
[21:28:49] <SWPadnos> cvs update -dP, in the directory of the checkout
[21:29:20] <skunkworks> thanks
[21:29:25] <fenn> what is the difference between a red blend and a yellow blend?
[21:30:47] <A-L-P-H-A> hey everyone... missed me?
[21:30:54] <A-L-P-H-A> don't be shy... Iknwo you all did.
[21:31:01] <fenn> enjoy your photo shoot? :)
[21:31:09] <alex_joni> fenn: big difference between 1st case & second
[21:31:32] <alex_joni> fenn: 1st case you have one axis moving, the second is halted
[21:31:49] <alex_joni> the second case, you have one axis which will always be at some speed
[21:32:10] <alex_joni> and the second axis will accel/decel and reverse
[21:32:10] <A-L-P-H-A> it was cloudy... so we didn't do it.
[21:32:15] <A-L-P-H-A> we'll probably do it tomorrow.
[21:32:15] <skunkworks> fenn: head breaks it
[21:32:25] <giacus> helloooo
[21:32:26] <alex_joni> so in the second case it's easier to stay close to the point
[21:32:29] <skunkworks> I get the exact same thing
[21:32:46] <A-L-P-H-A> it was just this 28 yr old model... really attractive one, but not super model quality... still attractive. :D
[21:32:50] <giacus> ah ! bad time, bad days sic
[21:32:54] <skunkworks> was working as of friday - now it doesn't - guessing a jepler issue?
[21:33:12] <fenn> alex_joni: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot3.png
[21:34:20] <alex_joni> fenn: odd
[21:34:38] <cradek> fenn: what is that?
[21:34:48] <alex_joni> cradek: g64p0
[21:35:09] <fenn> thats emc not blending.. its actually g64p.05 in that picture
[21:35:35] <les_w> no blend past 90 degrees right?
[21:35:46] <cradek> les_w: no, that's not true
[21:36:16] <fenn> cradek: what's the difference between red and yellow?
[21:36:44] <les_w> don't understand what i'm seeing...
[21:36:50] <cradek> I don't either
[21:37:02] <giacus> les_w: you're not the only one
[21:37:09] <alex_joni> cradek: the 90 degree lines get blended
[21:37:10] <cradek> I don't know why there's yellow, that's supposed to be just jogs
[21:37:23] <SkunkworksD> http://www.electronicsam.com/images/KandT/blend.png
[21:37:38] <alex_joni> the ones where it goes to .9,-.1 it doesn't blend
[21:38:04] <alex_joni> cradek: read the gcode at the bottom
[21:38:37] <alex_joni> SkunkworksD: how's dapper working?
[21:38:45] <skunkworks> good - no issues
[21:38:50] <cradek> but there are 3 angles on the screen
[21:38:56] <cradek> the gcode only draws two
[21:39:05] <SWPadnos> hmmm - do you get identical blends if you go from (0,0) -> (1,0) -> (1,1) -> (1,0) -> (0,0)
[21:39:06] <les_w> yeah
[21:39:10] <fenn> that's left over from a backplot of the previous run - sorry
[21:39:12] <cradek> ok
[21:39:18] <SWPadnos> ie, the original right angle forward and backward
[21:39:21] <cradek> so the one that's not blended is the LAST g1 move
[21:39:27] <cradek> jepler knows about that problem
[21:39:49] <les_w> a little close to visually call since both are close to 90 degrees
[21:39:52] <fenn> cradek: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot4.png
[21:39:59] <cradek> les_w: 90 degrees has nothing to do with it
[21:40:07] <alex_joni> fenn: put anothe g0x0y0z0 at the end
[21:40:23] <les_w> you think it's just orientation or something?
[21:40:50] <cradek> no, like I've said twice now, it's a bug where the last G1 isn't blended in
[21:40:54] <alex_joni> les_w: a more simple bug involving the last g1 in the file
[21:40:57] <K4ts> hello
[21:41:02] <giacus> oh .. we got the expert wait ..
[21:41:03] <les_w> oh
[21:41:06] <les_w> hi anna
[21:41:06] <giacus> hi K4ts
[21:41:11] <cradek> haha me?
[21:41:12] <fenn> ah he's right
[21:41:22] <fenn> it does blend with another move afterwards
[21:41:30] <K4ts> hi les
[21:41:36] <alex_joni> fenn: of course he is.. he proobably wrote it
[21:41:39] <K4ts> hi dmessier
[21:41:47] <cradek> if you end on a g0 it'll always be right
[21:41:50] <giacus> K4ts: secondo te quale è la differenza perchè una riga è gialla e una è rossa qui :http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/emc/screenshots/blend-lowaccel-backplot3.png
[21:41:50] <alex_joni> fenn: the bug I mean :P
[21:41:52] <A-L-P-H-A> dmessier even here?
[21:42:02] <cradek> if your program ends with a g1 it may not blend
[21:42:26] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A pokes K4ts...
[21:42:32] <K4ts> bha?
[21:42:41] <A-L-P-H-A> hey... I saw a baby bird, that wasn't scared of me... till I almost poked it.
[21:42:42] <alex_joni> nice reply:)
[21:43:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I was like 1 foot away from it, knelt down... almost wanted to catch it... but then realized about birdflu... and decided against it.
[21:43:22] <giacus> fenn: then liste: K4ts sayd: the red green line mean good, The yellow line is bad, but not so much, the red line should be very bad.
[21:43:34] <alex_joni> should have passed it an aspirine
[21:43:41] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, bookmark
[21:43:50] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[21:43:50] <A-L-P-H-A> See http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-06-13#T21-43-50
[21:43:57] <alex_joni> see the logs on google
[21:44:26] <les_w> ok well it rounds corners...it's not a circle or hyperbola....does not got to exact stop at any angle threshold....right?
[21:44:54] <cradek> right
[21:44:57] <les_w> k
[21:45:02] <cradek> so we don't know what shape it is? :-)
[21:45:05] <alex_joni> les_w: unless you tell it to
[21:45:17] <cradek> sure you can tell it to, full control
[21:45:27] <les_w> well, it's a curve
[21:45:29] <alex_joni> cradek: I'dcall it a spline
[21:45:36] <les_w> not a conic section seemingly
[21:45:57] <les_w> but symmetrical perhaps
[21:46:23] <alex_joni> not a traditional spline, but determined by the 2 blended lines & the distance
[21:47:31] <les_w> possibly not constant vector velocity during the arc....right?
[21:47:50] <cradek> no did you see jeff's plot of vector velocity?
[21:47:52] <les_w> tangientially
[21:47:59] <les_w> yeah saw it.
[21:48:01] <cradek> yeah tangential velocity
[21:48:03] <fenn> um, this blending bug could be really bad
[21:48:06] <cradek> clearly not constant
[21:48:28] <cradek> fenn: I think jepler will fix it, but I bet it's standard to end a program with g0 anyway
[21:49:01] <les_w> well, not a major problem....but constant speed path is always better
[21:49:11] <fenn> oops nevermind i had a 0 and 1 mixed up
[21:49:14] <giacus> wonder what matter the interpreter with Axis ..
[21:49:36] <giacus> is it separated ?
[21:50:02] <cradek> les_w: you get constant speed with colinear, stop with full reversals, something in between for everything else
[21:50:21] <fenn> nevermind the nevermind - i had it right, its just acting really weird is all
[21:50:27] <cradek> I don't see how you could get constant speed on most corners without a lot of undesirable rounding.
[21:50:28] <les_w> yeah
[21:51:12] <cradek> for contouring, I bet we're pretty close to constant tangential speed now
[21:51:30] <cradek> arg, I've got to run about a half hour ago, bye all
[21:51:46] <alex_joni> bye
[21:51:54] <les_w> yeah dinnertime
[21:52:08] <giacus> red hot chili peppers
[21:52:10] <giacus> :)
[21:52:14] <les_w> and you will get a lot of rounding with constant speed
[21:52:35] <les_w> V^2/A in general
[21:52:38] <alex_joni> unreliable chinese networks
[21:52:45] <les_w> can get big at high speed
[21:52:54] <fenn> (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by government))
[21:53:24] <alex_joni> fenn: government doesn't reset the connections :)
[21:53:33] <alex_joni> they only listen
[21:53:34] <giacus> just censure it
[21:53:52] <les_w> Which is why we must have accel capabilities the square of the speed to get equal radius
[21:53:54] <giacus> listen = spy
[21:54:16] <alex_joni> les_w: unless you put g64 Pxx in there
[21:54:31] <alex_joni> then it will slow down just enough to make that
[21:54:39] <les_w> right
[21:54:50] <les_w> I'm just talking in general
[21:54:57] <alex_joni> right
[21:55:15] <les_w> A hight speed machine is little use without high accel capabilities
[21:55:54] <alex_joni> les_w: like a 1-horse wagon that eventually reaches 100mph
[21:55:58] <les_w> In general if you want the same path capability and double the speed, you need to quadruple the accel
[21:56:40] <les_w> Which explains my 5.6 kva of servos!
[21:57:01] <alex_joni> another way is to cut mass
[21:57:10] <les_w> yup
[21:57:35] <alex_joni> ok.. off to bed
[21:57:47] <les_w> and dinner
[21:57:48] <alex_joni> let's gooo.. time's a wastin'
[21:57:51] <les_w> later all
[22:14:57] <roltek> hi skunkworks what are you doing with your kt's lately
[22:17:36] <roltek> have to leave now talk to you later
[22:20:32] <dmess> bonjour tous
[22:30:50] <K4ts> bonne soir a toi
[22:36:03] <giacus> bonsoir all
[22:36:06] <giacus> :D
[22:36:20] <giacus> hey les_w
[22:36:20] <giacus> ops
[22:36:22] <giacus> LawrenceG:
[22:36:55] <LawrenceG> Hi guys... rebooted after a major os update
[22:37:03] <giacus> :-)
[22:37:14] <giacus> dist-upgrade ?
[22:38:53] <LawrenceG> not that bad.... will update from breezy to dapper soon...
[22:39:11] <giacus> ah, Ubuntu user :)
[22:40:07] <giacus> wow great K4ts
[22:40:20] <giacus> K4ts: shot some photo this afternoon: http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1234.html
[22:40:29] <giacus> a robot used by italian police
[22:41:01] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1246.html
[22:41:17] <giacus> she learned to upload photos on the web :P
[22:42:31] <giacus> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1244.html
[22:43:53] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1242.html
[22:43:57] <K4ts> ahah
[22:44:29] <giacus> :D
[22:44:48] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1338.html
[22:45:10] <K4ts> giacus is Bassolino wow
[22:45:43] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1342.html
[22:46:05] <K4ts> Tony Tammaro and Emanuele!
[22:46:10] <giacus> yeah ..
[22:46:19] <giacus> nice
[22:47:02] <giacus> K4ts: was an anti-terroristic simulation ?
[22:47:41] <K4ts> Polizia Scientifica
[22:47:57] <giacus> anti-kamikaze robot
[22:48:36] <giacus> nice
[22:51:10] <K4ts> http://giacus.altervista.org/GiugnoinFesta/dsc_1265.html
[22:51:29] <K4ts> Clown
[22:55:03] <K4ts> night
[23:01:43] <giacus> oh .. you don't know who is tony tammaro
[23:01:54] <giacus> he's an artist .. comedian
[23:03:45] <giacus> a blues by tony : http:/www.giacus.org/files/t1.mp3
[23:04:09] <giacus> :)
[23:05:03] <giacus> should be nice to understand the italian for that :P
[23:05:06] <giacus> its cool
[23:10:12] <giacus> hey dmessier :)
[23:12:27] <giacus> it was a man who give the cellphone to another ..
[23:12:34] <giacus> he*
[23:12:36] <giacus> lol
[23:14:23] <giacus> lend
[23:22:07] <dmessier> allo giacus
[23:28:46] <giacus> hey dmessier
[23:29:04] <fenn> giacus: what is the dead guy thing all about?
[23:29:48] <giacus> fenn: talking about kats photos ?
[23:29:53] <fenn> yeah
[23:30:00] <giacus> just a simulation
[23:30:33] <giacus> k4ts shot the photos in naples this afternoon
[23:33:20] <giacus> I think it was a demontration how scientific police work
[23:33:32] <giacus> about
[23:34:32] <giacus> there was a fest too http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/index.html
[23:35:30] <giacus> this is Emanuele the son of anna http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/dsc_1277.jpg
[23:36:04] <giacus> the other goes with the father yestarday ..
[23:36:18] <A-L-P-H-A> Fathers day is the 18th!
[23:36:44] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=fathers+day+2006&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
[23:37:53] <A-L-P-H-A> that's a good shot... http://giacus.altervista.org/Giugno/dsc_1324.html just needs more umphm.
[23:38:37] <giacus> father's day here is in 19 march
[23:38:45] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[23:42:57] <A-L-P-H-A> everyone go get this game. http://www.scorched3d.co.uk/downloads.php :)
[23:46:21] <giacus> was talking with k4ts nephed, the girlfriend leave him yestarday after 12 years
[23:46:23] <giacus> bah
[23:46:44] <giacus> togheter since 14 years old
[23:47:18] <giacus> bastard womens
[23:48:19] <giacus> womans
[23:49:43] <giacus> nephew*
[23:49:44] <giacus> uff
[23:50:12] <A-L-P-H-A> 12 years? and he never married her?
[23:50:18] <giacus> nah
[23:50:23] <giacus> 23 years old
[23:50:25] <A-L-P-H-A> 26... that's like same age as me...
[23:50:32] <giacus> one
[23:50:38] <A-L-P-H-A> hang on.
[23:50:47] <giacus> yeah ..
[23:50:52] <A-L-P-H-A> 12 years of togetheredness, since 14... = 26!
[23:51:07] <giacus> the guy
[23:51:21] <giacus> she's a bit more young
[23:51:46] <giacus> it's always the same story
[23:52:00] <giacus> old damned story
[23:52:39] <giacus> after 10 years togheter start the crisis