#emc | Logs for 2006-06-28

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[00:00:04] <davidf> Cool! So isn't there some way to run a script or something to do that rather than typing it in?
[00:00:26] <jepler> and at each reboot it will also be ready to use emc, not the printer
[00:01:24] <davidf> Right. I get it. I could cut & paste it each time but surely there's something that can enter those command automatically?
[00:01:40] <jepler> davidf: yes, that's possible. In your favorite editor create a file that says exactly "#!/bin/sh" on the first line (no quotes), and the "sudo" command on the second line.
[00:02:25] <davidf> Then how do I execute it?
[00:02:38] <jepler> then in the terminal, type "chmod +x thefilename"
[00:02:53] <jepler> then if it's on your Desktop you should actually be able to just double-click it
[00:02:53] <davidf> Cool.
[00:03:12] <jepler> ("+x" means "add the 'execute' permission to the file)
[00:03:40] <davidf> Excellent. :) Thanks!
[00:04:00] <jepler> you can also do it in the file browser by following these instructions with the name of your script instead of "emc2-install.sh": "Step 3: Now an emc2-install.sh icon will appear on your Desktop. Right-click that icon, select Properties. Go to the Permissions tab and check the box for Owner: Execute. Close the Properties window."
[00:04:24] <jepler> hmm .. I wonder if it's going to ask you each time whether to run in a terminal
[00:04:59] <jepler> and there's the issue of prompting for your password for the "sudo" ...
[00:05:58] <jepler> Jymmm: I've started with the "server" install of breezy (it's about 300 megs installed, if I recall), then added the X server, and run emc2.
[00:05:59] <davidf> Well, usually I'm not printing when I'm milling, and vice versa. So ...
[00:06:31] <Jymmm> jepler breezy is 5.xx and daper is 6.xx ???
[00:06:32] <jepler> Jymmm: but with a small change to the "emc" script you should be able to run "keystick" on a text terminal, not installing X at all
[00:06:36] <jepler> Jymmm: yes, breezy is 5.10
[00:06:53] <jepler> Jymmm: I don't have a lot of experience with dapper (6.06) yet.
[00:06:58] <davidf> Yes. 5.10
[00:07:13] <Jymmm> jepler is 6xx suppose to be debian untested?
[00:08:47] <jepler> Jymmm: the quality of the release is supposed to be very high, and versions of things (kernel, gcc, etc) don't change. I think that makes it more like debian's "stable", if you insist on making a direct comparison.
[00:09:12] <SWPadnos> the 6 refers to the year of release, and the .10 or .06 refer to the month
[00:09:30] <jepler> SWPadnos: interesting, I didn't know that
[00:09:51] <SWPadnos> yep - just version numbers, no correlation to testing / unstable ...
[00:10:15] <jepler> Jymmm: if you're interested in the version of a particular package, I would be happy to check for you
[00:10:15] <Jymmm> oh so in 2010 or 2099 we start all over again!!!
[00:10:27] <SWPadnos> yep - there's a y2.01k problem ;)
[00:10:34] <Jymmm> lol
[00:11:10] <Jymmm> I was trying to find was versions of pkgs are on 6xx
[00:11:31] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure where to look for that, without installing
[00:12:17] <SWPadnos> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/dapper
[00:12:30] <jepler> you could look in this package: http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz
[00:12:34] <jepler> er, in this file
[00:12:41] <jepler> (it's quite long :-P)
[00:14:09] <jepler> Jymmm: I don't know which packages you're interested in the version of, but here are some for you: gcc 4.0.3, kernel 2.6.15, gnome 2.14
[00:14:20] <Jymmm> apache and php
[00:15:15] <SWPadnos> 2.0.55
[00:15:25] <Jymmm> fudge
[00:15:27] <SWPadnos> for apache (or 1.3.4.something)
[00:15:28] <jepler> apache 1.3.34-2, apache2 2.0.55-4ubuntu2
[00:15:36] <Jymmm> cool
[00:15:38] <Jymmm> thanks
[00:16:01] <jepler> php4 4.4.2-1build1 php5 5.1.2-1ubuntu3
[00:16:15] <Jymmm> apache 2 it buggy, as is php5
[00:16:49] <Jymmm> that' ll work. I have daper, but maybe I grab 6xx server and install
[00:17:11] <jepler> mysql-server-4.1 4.1.15, mysql-server-5.0 5.0.22
[00:17:40] <Jymmm> works for me =)
[00:18:04] <Jymmm> I'm gonna miss using my lil laptop for milling
[00:18:18] <jepler> you have the dapper "live & install" cd? you can get all the same packages after you install that one to the hard drive
[00:18:35] <jepler> any more version questions? I'm going to shut this machine down if not
[00:18:46] <Jymmm> shut er down!
[00:18:53] <jepler> 'k
[00:19:36] <jepler> davidf: did you have any luck with the icons?
[00:20:03] <jepler> davidf: shortcuts, scripts, whatever you want to call them?
[00:20:38] <davidf> Hi. I've been having trouble.
[00:20:47] <davidf> Cant seem to find the file.
[00:21:08] <davidf> I typed chmod -x ~Desktop/Printer.
[00:21:16] <davidf> Getr no such filre
[00:21:19] <davidf> file.
[00:21:20] <jepler> davidf: did you save the file on your Desktop?
[00:21:26] <davidf> yes.
[00:21:40] <jepler> ok, in the terminal, type "ls -l Desktop" .. is the file listed?
[00:21:51] <davidf> I saved it as just "Printer"
[00:21:55] <jepler> or "ls -l ~/Desktop" if you are not in your home directory (~)
[00:22:08] <davidf> I'm used to having an editor add ".txt"
[00:22:29] <Jymmm> davidf this is nix, no extension needed =)
[00:22:50] <jepler> more like "you never know for sure if an extension is needed or not"
[00:22:54] <davidf> right.
[00:22:59] <davidf> It's there.
[00:23:42] <jepler> davidf: in your "chmod" you had a dot at the end. When you actually typed the command, did you type exactly the name exacty like "ls" showed it?
[00:24:00] <jepler> davidf: also, it needs to be "+x" not "-x" (add, not take away)
[00:24:09] <davidf> Actually windows notepad doesn't care either. It happily tries to open binaries.
[00:24:11] <jepler> oh, and ~/Desktop, not ~Desktop
[00:25:45] <jepler> davidf: if doing it at the terminal isn't working, maybe you should try the GUI method. "Right-click that icon, select Properties. Go to the Permissions tab and check the box for Owner: Execute. Close the Properties window."
[00:25:53] <Jymmm> Ok, 6.06 server on it's way down the pipe =)
[00:26:47] <davidf> That worked fine. Asked for PW & ran.
[00:27:26] <davidf> I had typed ~Desktop instead of ~/Desktop. OOPs.
[00:27:58] <davidf> Thanks loads for that. It is soooo humbling to be iliterate.
[00:28:01] <jepler> davidf: the commandline is like the genie of the fables: powerful, but ready to punish you for the slightest mistake of wording.
[00:28:09] <Jymmm> davidf: Unless you have a user called Desktop, that aint gonna work =)
[00:28:23] <Jymmm> lol
[00:28:46] <davidf> Right. I cut teeth on DOS. But 'nix is an ACTUAL operating system.
[00:28:59] <Jymmm> davidf I still use DOS
[00:29:11] <Jymmm> even on XP
[00:29:25] <davidf> Me too. I have a 486 running my Glass annealing kiln.
[00:29:55] <Jymmm> thats a good use of a 486, or a router/firewall
[00:30:27] <jepler> hahaha I should take this advice to heart: http://static.flickr.com/69/176617682_9b4ae23cb7.jpg
[00:31:30] <davidf> Has a Radio Shack digital multimeter reading an op-amp buffered thermocouple, plugged into serial port, and PID controller in software. <$100.00 total cost. Been using it for years with no problems. :)
[00:32:11] <jepler> speaking of genies, I hear this this joke is funny: http://scienceblogs.com/evolutionblog/2006/06/the_aristocrats_2.php (no, it's not actually "the aristocrats" joke, it's about a joke that is in the extras portion of the dvd)
[00:32:35] <davidf> Hmm... I should take a lesson from Bart as well...
[00:33:06] <Jymmm> Yeah, answer the door with "Who the hell are you man?"
[00:36:37] <davidf> Guys, gotta go. I appreciate the help. I'll check the archive and get it going. Have to work. Thanks again. The joke is funny.
[00:37:35] <jepler> see you davidf
[00:37:38] <jepler> come back any time
[00:37:52] <davidf> 'Bye! Thanks again everyone. :)
[01:23:42] <wholepair> It's 97F outside and probably hotter in this shop! Is anyone here? I know this is'nt the right forum for this question but does anyone use Flickr - or a Flickr uploadr that runs in Ubuntu?
[01:24:25] <cradek> sorry no idea
[01:28:29] <wholepair> I was trying to get flickrfs to run on the same Ubuntu OS I put on a computer in the shop. http://manishrjain.googlepages.com/flickrfs#ubuntu - but the >> sudo apt-get install libfuse2 fuse-utils python2.4-fuse Imagemagick << doesn't complete succesfully???
[01:29:01] <wholepair> the same Ubuntu OS I use for emc21
[01:30:59] <wholepair> I will look for an ubuntu forum - but thier always so packed with people.
[01:35:26] <Jymmm> do you have python already installed?
[01:35:41] <Jymmm> python2.4-fuse (if you have python 2.4 installed)
[01:42:03] <giacus> yaaaaaaaawwwwwnnssssssshhh!!!!!
[01:42:12] <giacus> night.
[01:44:22] <Jymmm> lol
[01:58:43] <wholepair> I tried to get Python with the apt-get command in the terminal but it fails - the terminal responds with Package fuse-utils is not available, but is referred to by another package.
[01:58:43] <wholepair> This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
[01:58:43] <wholepair> is only available from another source
[01:59:32] <wholepair> I was trying to follow this - http://manishrjain.googlepages.com/flickrfs#ubuntu
[02:22:49] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[02:25:08] <Jymmm> hey jmkasunich
[02:25:41] <jmkasunich> hey
[02:26:09] <Jymmm> how goes it?
[02:26:18] <jmkasunich> not bad
[02:27:57] <Jymmm> I'm trying to get the courage up to to finish building the new enclosure... I've had the framing for it sitting in the corner for months!
[02:59:03] <jepler> I've now used hal_dpp with some real hardware -- an ARM micro hooked up to the machine with a USB to serial converter
[02:59:13] <jepler> it currently does non-realtime reading of up to 7 external buttons
[02:59:20] <jmkasunich> cool!
[02:59:32] <cradek> slick
[03:00:20] <jepler> 12 bit -W FALSE dpp.0.pin-00-in
[03:00:20] <jepler> 12 bit -W TRUE dpp.0.pin-01-in
[03:00:20] <jepler> 12 bit -W TRUE dpp.0.pin-02-in
[03:00:21] <jepler> ...
[03:00:26] <jepler> with that said .. goodnight
[03:00:31] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:11:27] <Jymmm> I wonder why a USB2SERIAL?
[03:11:55] <Jymmm> unless it's a laptop
[03:23:09] <Jymmm> I have a quesiton if someone wouldn't mind giving their two cents, I'd appreciate it... I'm creating a new table top that's 28x24 with 1/4" holes that are in a grid 2" apart, starting at x2, y2.
[03:24:38] <Jymmm> I'd like to add another set of 1/4" holes around the perimeter at 1" apart starting at x1,y1. I was wonderinf anyone would think this is "too close" together and migth make the edge too qeak to clamp againest/to ?
[03:24:44] <Jymmm> s/qeak/weak/
[03:43:03] <A-L-P-H-A> microsoft is REALLY pushing that WGA bullshit.
[04:01:53] <Jymmm> wga?
[04:35:57] <Jymmm> Underwater turbines
[04:56:47] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm, Windows Guinine Advantage.
[04:56:54] <A-L-P-H-A> the callback program to check if you're legit.
[04:56:59] <Jymmm> ah
[04:57:37] <Jymmm> you mean during updates?
[04:57:42] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[04:57:56] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A xp ?
[04:58:17] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[04:58:39] <A-L-P-H-A> I have one legit copy of XP Pro, one of XP Home.
[04:58:49] <A-L-P-H-A> One of 2000
[04:59:01] <Jymmm> Yeah, dont use the web "Windows Update", use the automatic thingy, it lets you UNCHECK that nag thing so it doens't install.
[04:59:13] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah... I have.
[04:59:18] <A-L-P-H-A> but I unchecked it.
[04:59:22] <A-L-P-H-A> new update, it comes up again.
[04:59:31] <Jymmm> of course =)
[05:00:01] <Jymmm> I just dont like any SW "calling home"l I have nfc what it's sending/doing.
[05:00:26] <Jymmm> You should read the XP EULA, it's scarry.
[05:43:51] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Red70sShow
[05:43:51] <Red70sShow> Red70sShow is now known as Jymmm
[08:11:00] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[08:11:53] <ValarQ> hello mr Joni
[08:37:24] <alex_joni> hi captain
[09:24:43] <anonimasu> hm
[09:30:23] <alex_joni> hey anders
[09:31:07] <anonimasu> hi
[09:50:39] <alex_joni> hi les
[09:56:49] <les_w> hi alex
[10:27:53] <alex_joni> what's up?
[10:28:36] <alex_joni> that's a nice machine in that pic: http://www.matsuura.co.uk/products/gantry-type-large-5-axis
[11:18:38] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu... so what are you gonna use for a compy on the production machine?
[11:19:14] <A-L-P-H-A> uh? what is that... 4-6 stories?
[13:22:04] <alex_joni> any 'mericuns around?
[13:22:16] <alex_joni> how is the store called where you buy cake & cookies?
[13:26:57] <jepler> alex_joni: bakery?
[13:27:24] <alex_joni> isn't that only for bread & such?
[13:28:12] <alex_joni> after googling I found the term "dessert shop" :D wonder how common that is.. or maybe is "patisserie/pastry" a better word?
[13:28:27] <jepler> you're talking about german Konditorei vs Bäckerei ?
[13:28:38] <jepler> Both are "bakeries" in (american) english
[13:28:46] <jepler> you could have a "pastry shop"
[13:29:17] <alex_joni> ok, I was looking for the Konditorei (thanks for using proper words :D)
[13:30:13] <alex_joni> jepler: thanks
[13:30:17] <jepler> these definitions seem to include cakes in what a bakery may make. http://www.answers.com/bakery
[13:30:30] <jepler> but that's not to say that every bakery will make such sweet items
[13:31:37] <alex_joni> ok, so there isn't a more precise word.. (we have one just like in german, one for sweets, one for general baked stuff)
[13:32:21] <alex_joni> actually I think our term of "cofetarie" = "Konditorei", originally came from coffee shop
[13:32:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> konditori I recognise
[13:32:59] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: that's german..
[13:33:05] <alex_joni> and bad german ~ swedish
[13:33:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> coffeeshop-like place. swedish actually
[13:33:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> haha
[13:33:35] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: misspelled german mixed with some really bad english =~ borkbork
[13:35:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: 1/3 misspelled swedish, 1/3 bad english, 1/3 other stuff = german ;)
[13:36:03] <alex_joni> mmm.. yummy (cold pizza)
[13:36:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> tasty
[13:36:37] <alex_joni> it's even 1 day old
[13:36:54] <alex_joni> nice cardboard texture
[13:37:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> mmmm....
[13:44:49] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[15:08:17] <A-L-P-H-A> that's nasty
[15:08:39] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, help
[15:09:02] <A-L-P-H-A> no search?
[15:09:04] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[15:17:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Um, does anyone here know here how to finsh this? hardware spindle on/off switch -> parport in - (this link missing)> EMC/Axis -> parport out -> relay
[15:18:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> to clarify, I need assistance with the HAL commands to route an input pin (on/off) to the spindle control.
[15:18:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> everything else is already done. (I can control the spindle via the mouse in axis and with halmeter I can see the input pin switch between 1 and 0 when I use the switch)
[15:20:37] <jepler> it doesn't look like the halui code for spindle control is completed
[15:23:50] <jepler> to get an idea of what it would take to add this, you could look at each place "mist_on" is used in src/emc/usr_intf/halui.c
[15:24:41] <cradek> also you will need two buttons, not a hard switch, for it to work right - one will be hooked to halui.spindle.forward, the other to halui.spindle.stop
[15:25:35] <cradek> I think a center-off double-momentary switch would be best
[15:28:38] <jepler> and you might still not get the control you want. emc will ignore the "manual mode" spindle control commands when you are in MDI or Auto modes (running a program), and will turn the spindle off when entering those modes.
[15:30:03] <jepler> if you want the switch to override (force on, or force off) the spindle control, then do it with blocks "or2" or "and2" with the hal signal iocontrol.0.spindle-on
[15:31:53] <cradek> I can't see why you'd want a switch that turns off the spindle during a program run
[15:32:38] <jepler> I don't understand what use the GUI spindle control is
[15:33:01] <jepler> you might want to turn the spindle off to run your program in the air with less noise
[15:33:13] <jepler> I dunno
[15:33:25] <cradek> I still think you should be able to machine by jogging, especially with a jogwheel
[15:34:02] <cradek> I think you can currently do that with axis (the spindle won't turn off surprisingly)
[15:37:18] <jepler> you're worried it would in the other GUIs?
[15:37:32] <cradek> no, I think it used to in axis
[15:37:36] <jepler> oh!
[15:38:08] <jepler> it probably still does if you "offset" or do anything else that axis implements as an mdi
[15:38:29] <jepler> (hm, that's probably a bug -- can't jog with jogwheel after offsetting)
[15:39:26] <jepler> (or after loading a file!)
[15:39:38] <cradek> oops
[15:39:40] <jepler> (these actually leave the machine in "auto" mode, not "mdi" as I expected for offsetting)
[15:40:15] <cradek> offset causes a load
[15:40:51] <jepler> yeah
[15:41:00] <jepler> I thought first about the fact they did an MDI
[15:41:20] <jepler> er, that offset did an mdi
[15:45:10] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: switch back to the mode implied by the active tab after loading a file (also covers the case of 'offsetting' when it reloads but there is no file loaded)
[15:53:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> err. I'm back now
[15:53:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I don't want a "hardwired" control
[15:53:34] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it should behave in the same way as the spindle clockwise/counterclockwise buttons
[15:53:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> is what I'd want
[15:54:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> (the buttons in AXIS)
[15:55:07] <cradek> then you need two buttons like I said, and that support needs to be added to halui, since it's not there yet
[15:55:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> why would I need two physical buttons?
[15:56:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the one I have now is a rotary toggle switch
[15:56:40] <cradek> because you also want emc to be able to turn the spindle on and off
[15:56:53] <cradek> there's a "turn on" signal and a "turn off signal" and you need to be able to send both of them
[15:57:13] <cradek> actually there's three, forward/off/reverse but you won't need reverse
[15:57:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes, but what would a rotary switch have to do with that? it is connected to emc via the parport, so emc should be able to ignore that signal
[15:57:46] <cradek> but your switch will be in the wrong position, momentaries don't have that problem
[15:58:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm. ok.
[15:58:46] <cradek> the most complete solution might be a "turn on" button, "turn off" button and an indicator light that says when it's on
[15:59:06] <cradek> then it can be fully controlled from any of the several guis
[15:59:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[15:59:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> uh, brb
[15:59:39] <cradek> but like jepler said, spindle control isn't in halui yet
[16:12:03] <NickServ> This nickname is owned by someone else
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[16:23:34] <alex_joni> ui ui... do I hear halui?
[16:28:07] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: still there?
[16:30:36] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: you could use one button in hardware for on/off but make sure it's momentary
[16:30:48] <alex_joni> then you can wire it in hal to a flip/flop :0
[16:31:01] <alex_joni> push once, spindle goes on, push again, spindle goes off
[16:32:47] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> alex_joni: here now
[16:33:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> alex_joni: it's not momentary :(
[16:33:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> It's a standard rotary toggle switch
[16:33:23] <alex_joni> you can use one that's not momentary too.. just remember to switch it back off
[16:33:36] <alex_joni> switch on, then back off
[16:33:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> hmm
[16:33:43] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> rather cumbersome
[16:34:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> is there a way to have the change in signal from 1 to 0 or 0 to 1 as the switch? (P-edge in siemens simatic)
[16:34:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> so that when it goes from 1 to 0 it sends a pulse to whatever
[16:34:41] <alex_joni> I think that might be done..
[16:34:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> in software that is
[16:34:51] <alex_joni> but as it is halui works like that
[16:35:03] <alex_joni> it looks only at 0->1 transistions
[16:35:21] <alex_joni> the only thing is that you will enable it by the external switch, spindle will go on
[16:35:47] <alex_joni> but if you push the AXIS spindle stop button, then the external switch will still be switched on, but the spindle will be halted
[16:35:55] <alex_joni> if you're ok with that, then there is no problem
[16:36:25] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> oh, thats fine
[16:36:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> will switching it on via hardware, and then off via hardware work?
[16:36:50] <alex_joni> so.. what pins should halui have for spindle?
[16:36:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> or can I only turn off via software=
[16:36:58] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: sure it'll work
[16:37:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> alex_joni: then that is the behavior I wanted to begin with
[16:37:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> the switch would only be used when jogging and so on
[16:38:08] <alex_joni> ok, so basicly> spindle-on, spindle-off, spindle-forward, spindle-reverse, spindle-speed (float)
[16:39:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> those are the commands I can use?
[16:39:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> or what do you mean?
[16:39:22] <alex_joni> halui pins I plan to add
[16:40:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> oh, right
[16:41:27] <alex_joni> hmm.. I seem to have named them differently a while ago:
[16:41:32] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.start
[16:41:34] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.stop
[16:41:38] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.forward
[16:41:41] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.reverse
[16:41:45] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.increase
[16:41:48] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.decrease
[16:41:53] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.brake-on
[16:41:56] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.brake-off
[16:41:57] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> Do I need to start halui to use these functions?
[16:41:58] <alex_joni> halui.spindle.brake-is-on
[16:42:19] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: they only exist in la-laa land right now (as jepler said)
[16:42:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> oh, right
[16:42:43] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: give me a while :D
[16:44:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> :D woohoo!
[17:14:45] <Jymmm> Mornin Folks
[17:15:09] <alex_joni> morning Jymmm
[17:19:32] <Jymmm> alex_joni: how ya doin on that side of the pond?
[17:19:43] <alex_joni> melting slowly
[17:19:48] <alex_joni> darn hot
[17:19:50] <Jymmm> hot huh?
[17:20:32] <Jymmm> Yesterday is was humid as can be, not as hot as it's been, but extremely humid
[17:20:43] <alex_joni> not very hot.. but still hot (abou 95/100F)
[17:20:59] <alex_joni> greece last week was terrible
[17:21:06] <alex_joni> 102F and 95% humidity
[17:21:46] <Jymmm> Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww! I'll never visit Greece then! Sounds like the South here - where les_w is at.
[17:22:13] <Jymmm> I can handle the heat (120+ in AZ) but not the humidity.
[17:22:16] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: added spindle command pins
[17:22:22] <alex_joni> Jymmm: but they do have a VERY nice sea to compensate
[17:22:26] <skunkworks> sounds like a normal summer day here in WI
[17:22:30] <skunkworks> :)
[17:22:37] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: done
[17:23:02] <Jymmm> skunkworks 95% humidity in WI ?
[17:24:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/ (halui.vcp halvcp.hal): added spindle command example
[17:25:10] <skunkworks> in august
[17:25:17] <alex_joni> ouch
[17:25:23] <Jymmm> what he said
[17:27:58] <Jymmm> If I used 1/16" aluminum angle, do you think it be too thin to use as a edge? flexing out too much maybe
[17:39:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> alex_joni: ooh
[17:39:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> alex_joni: link?
[17:42:06] <alex_joni> cvs up -dP ?
[17:43:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> no cvs root specified
[17:43:20] <skunkworks> cradek: How is the lathe coming?
[17:43:53] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2_: you do have a CVS checkout of emc2, don't you?
[17:44:03] <jepler> you run "cvs up" from inside the top directory of the CVS checkout
[17:44:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> jepler: yep
[17:44:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> oh, right
[17:44:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2_> Lerneaen_Hydra2_ is now known as Lerneaen_Hydra2
[17:45:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: will I loose the update we applied previously, or did you commit that to cvs?
[17:45:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the one with latency and jogwheels
[17:46:33] <jepler> when you have changed the local version of a file, and someone else has checked in a new version on the CVS server, CVS "merges" the changes. It doesn't simply discard one or the other.
[17:46:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ooh. nice
[17:47:02] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: sometimes you do get merging problems
[17:47:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> that could bork code though, right?
[17:47:13] <alex_joni> when cvs can't decide how to combine the changes
[17:47:21] <jepler> however, when the same part of the code is changed in both your copy and the CVS copy, you can get a "conflict" which is marked with a row of ">>>" signs
[17:47:21] <alex_joni> then you need to look at the file yourself
[17:47:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ah, ok
[17:47:34] <alex_joni> what jepler said
[17:47:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: did you commit that fix to cvs?
[17:48:59] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: Yes, I did.
[17:49:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[17:49:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: ok. updated and compiled
[17:49:47] <jepler> One way to resolve a conflict is to tell CVS to just take the version from the CVS server: "cvs up -C FILENAME"
[17:49:56] <jepler> change FILENAME to the file with a conflict
[17:50:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh. ok. CVS is wiki-esque too right? in that it keeps all versions of a file?
[17:50:42] <jepler> yes
[17:50:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> that sounds really nice
[17:50:56] <jepler> you can look at other versions of the file in your web browser, if you like: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/halvcp.hal?graph=1
[17:51:03] <alex_joni> quite a bit better than wiki
[17:51:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> sounds like a good system for distributed developmend
[17:51:21] <alex_joni> it takes care of a lot of problems
[17:52:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> indeed. seems good.
[17:52:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: what is the next step for me and my spindle buttons?
[17:54:57] <alex_joni> connect them
[17:55:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> in a standard hal file?
[17:55:12] <jepler> linkpp button.spindle-start halui.spindle.start
[17:55:12] <jepler> linkpp button.spindle-stop halui.spindle.stop
[17:55:13] <jepler> linkpp button.spindle-forward halui.spindle.forward
[17:55:17] <alex_joni> linkpp parport.0.pin-12-in halui.spindle.start
[17:55:20] <jepler> you'd link something to halui.spinndle.XXX
[17:55:38] <jepler> button.YYY is a button shown by halvcp (right?)
[17:55:43] <alex_joni> right
[17:55:53] <alex_joni> jepler: run it once..
[17:55:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I think I need an introduction to halui, as I have no idea what it is
[17:56:01] <alex_joni> the halui_halvcp config I mean
[17:56:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> is halui some type of GUI for hal?
[17:56:20] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: a simple program that runs in the background
[17:56:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> like classic ladder for hal?
[17:56:35] <alex_joni> it exports some HAL pins, and sends proper NML messages when these change
[17:56:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> rt?
[17:57:00] <alex_joni> it acts like a GUI (tkemc, AXIS, mini, etc..) but using actual knobs and leds
[17:57:04] <alex_joni> not RT, userlevel
[17:57:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: ah, ok
[17:57:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> so the jogwheels use halui?
[17:57:23] <alex_joni> yes and no
[17:57:36] <alex_joni> halui has support for jogwheels, but so does the motion controller
[17:57:44] <alex_joni> the later is RT and preferred
[17:57:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, ok
[17:58:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, is there any chance of feedrate jogwheels?
[17:58:22] <alex_joni> but with halui you can (at least in theory) have the jogwheel on another PC (different than the one doing the RT control)
[17:58:39] <alex_joni> there is a feedoverride input to the motion controller
[17:59:07] <alex_joni> so I think you can connect an encoder component and make it work like that
[17:59:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> but no support in halui for jogwheels...
[17:59:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh? ok
[17:59:54] <jepler> you'd need something that takes a jogwheel position (which is an integer which can have essentially unlimited values) and turns it into a feed override value from 0.0 to 1.0
[18:00:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: exactly.
[18:00:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> which I have no idea of how to do in HAL
[18:01:03] <alex_joni> you need to scale it
[18:01:15] <alex_joni> then probably limit it
[18:04:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "HAL:16: ERROR: pin 'button.spindle-start' not found"
[18:04:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> this is strange as I have the linkpp "linkpp button.spindle-start halui.spindle.start" a few line earlier
[18:05:19] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: do you actually have a pin called button.spindle-start ?
[18:05:56] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: that pin is defined by halvcp, which you probably didn't start
[18:06:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: hmm. probably not. so linkpp doesn't add them?
[18:06:01] <alex_joni> you do want something like:
[18:06:04] <alex_joni> linkpp parport.0.pin-12-in halui.spindle.start
[18:06:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, no I didn't load that
[18:06:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> so I don't need halvcp?
[18:06:31] <jepler> you probably don't want to use button.spindle-start .. you want to use a physical button connected to parport, not a "virtual" button created by halvcp
[18:06:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: indeed
[18:06:50] <alex_joni> linkpp parport.0.pin-12-in halui.spindle.start
[18:06:52] <Jymmm> bbiab
[18:07:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> and remove the previous lines?
[18:07:21] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the linkpp
[18:07:55] <alex_joni> yes
[18:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "Starting emc...
[18:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> command (EMC_SPINDLE_ON) cannot be executed until the machine is out of E-stop and turned on
[18:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Traceback (most recent call last):
[18:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> File "/home/cnc-lathe/emc2/bin/axis", line 61, in ?
[18:08:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> import gcode
[18:08:52] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ImportError: /home/cnc-lathe/emc2/lib/librs274.so: undefined symbol: _Z22USE_TOOL_LENGTH_OFFSETdd
[18:08:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "
[18:09:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> so. how do I define that spindle-on isn't started untill later?
[18:09:30] <jepler> you need to "cvs update" in the axis directory too, then "make" again
[18:09:42] <jepler> cradek created some new incompatabilities when he checked in his newest lathe work
[18:09:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, ok
[18:09:49] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: it seems your parport pin is pushed by default
[18:09:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: which is fixed now?
[18:09:58] <alex_joni> that's why the message gets sent
[18:10:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: oh, so the spindle can't be set to on when starting?
[18:10:28] <jepler> my comment about "cvs update" for axis is to address this error: ImportError: /home/cnc-lathe/emc2/lib/librs274.so: undefined symbol: _Z22USE_TOOL_LENGTH_OFFSETdd
[18:10:44] <jepler> the other error about EMC_SPINDLE_ON will be a separate issue
[18:10:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: oh, ok
[18:10:57] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: no, emc needs to be enabled for you to switch on the spindle
[18:11:10] <alex_joni> for security reasons when in estop the spindle is stopped
[18:11:17] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> so axis main dir then cvs up -dP
[18:11:29] <jepler> yes
[18:11:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: oh, ok. seems strange that it would refuse to start though
[18:11:34] <alex_joni> and emc comes up by default in the estop state, then you push estop reset and machine on
[18:11:43] <jepler> it refuses to stop because of the ImportError
[18:11:49] <jepler> er, refuses to start
[18:11:51] <alex_joni> it should start, but the AXIS problems stops it
[18:12:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[18:12:11] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: that's the issue with bleeding edge :)
[18:12:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> uh, I've never got axis via cvs before, so I can't update it. Any idea of what the adress is?
[18:12:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: in this case it's worth it ;)
[18:12:52] <jepler> I need to find one of these on ebay so I can convert it to CNC! http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2006/06/28/brain-crane/
[18:13:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I find it actually to be very stable for being bleeding edge :)
[18:13:23] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: you can either download a new .tar.gz, or read the instructions to get a fresh checkout, here: http://axis.unpy.net/downloads/nightly
[18:13:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: ok thanks
[18:13:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: use EMC with it! :D
[18:14:27] <alex_joni> jepler: no way.. that's 21st century?
[18:14:38] <cradek> jepler: I especially like the automatic eye-stabbing feature
[18:14:39] <alex_joni> I think they missed the action by 4-500 years
[18:14:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> haha
[18:14:50] <jepler> alex_joni: 20th. "Source: Science And Mechanics 6-1952"
[18:15:05] <alex_joni> oh, then it's more plausible
[18:15:08] <alex_joni> lol
[18:22:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm
[18:22:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I seem to get many errors
[18:23:08] <alex_joni> oh-oh.. what kind?
[18:23:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> axis
[18:23:19] <alex_joni> paste..bin?
[18:23:22] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> and the same one as before
[18:23:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> in progress...
[18:25:12] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> http://pastebin.ca/74143
[18:27:05] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: hm, I don't get that error here
[18:27:20] <jepler> did you download a snapshot, or did you get the CVS?
[18:27:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> do you have the spindle-start pin in your hal file?
[18:27:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> snapshot
[18:28:09] <jepler> axis-latest.tar.bz2?
[18:28:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes
[18:28:30] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: didn't you get an error when running 'cvs up' in the axis dir?
[18:28:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes, I did
[18:28:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> because I had never gotten axis via cvs
[18:28:51] <jepler> alex_joni: he's not working from CVS of AXIS, but from snapshots
[18:29:09] <alex_joni> right, but that means he needs a newer snapshot
[18:29:15] <alex_joni> to work with the latest emc2 changes
[18:29:17] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: in your emc2/src directory, you need to remove the old snapshot and re-run configure (--enable-run-in-place) after you untar the new snapshot. did you do that?
[18:29:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes
[18:29:51] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: do you get the problem when you run the configuration configs/sim/axis.ini?
[18:30:36] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> heh, a different error >.<
[18:31:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> http://pastebin.ca/74147
[18:31:41] <jepler> ooh you got a palindrome number
[18:31:51] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: that's a problem with udev
[18:31:55] <jepler> did it really print lines and lines with just "."?
[18:31:59] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes
[18:32:06] <alex_joni> jepler: the scripts/realtime does that
[18:32:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> at an interval of once per second, roughly
[18:32:30] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: try it again
[18:32:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> same config?
[18:33:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> huh. it worked now
[18:33:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> no errors or anything
[18:33:59] <alex_joni> probably a bad cleanup the last time
[18:34:06] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, ok
[18:34:16] <jepler> so .. sim/axis.ini works again?
[18:34:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes
[18:34:22] <jepler> is your own config file still broken?
[18:34:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "Shutting down and cleaning up EMC...
[18:34:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Could not find pid(s) for task halshow
[18:34:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> Cleanup done" when exiting
[18:35:15] <alex_joni> that should be ok
[18:35:20] <jepler> I think it always says that
[18:35:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes mine is still borken
[18:35:31] <alex_joni> same errors as in the pastebin?
[18:35:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> should I check in detail=
[18:35:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it looked roughly the same
[18:36:02] <alex_joni> wonder if AXIS barfs if it receives the error before the interface is completely up
[18:36:11] <jepler> this one?
[18:36:12] <jepler> NameError: global name 'live_plotter' is not defined
[18:36:23] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: can you switch the spindle button off?
[18:36:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> that came up before I saw the GUI
[18:36:48] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> same behavior
[18:39:02] <alex_joni> whoa.. I had no idea you can use tab completion on ./configure --ena<tab>
[18:39:11] <alex_joni> for --enable-run-in-place
[18:39:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ooh! nice
[18:39:47] <jepler> doesn't work here (breezy)
[18:40:00] <alex_joni> works here .. dapper :D
[18:40:08] <jepler> bbl
[18:40:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> dapper here, sim axis works
[18:40:17] <cradek> jepler: . /etc/bash_completion
[18:40:26] <alex_joni> I see tab-completion works in a lot of places
[18:41:40] <alex_joni> ooohh.. shiny
[18:41:55] <alex_joni> Love the 1.4a0 version string :D
[18:42:12] <skunkworks> Cradek: how is the lathe coming?
[18:42:21] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: it's working here
[18:42:26] <alex_joni> latest AXIS and halui
[18:42:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> what is?
[18:42:34] <cradek> I'm off to pick up some material for it soon
[18:42:37] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> how do I test just that?
[18:42:58] <alex_joni> I'm running halui_halvcp config
[18:43:07] <cradek> lathe support in emc/axis is coming along just great
[18:43:07] <alex_joni> and I replaced the DISPLAY = tkemc with axis
[18:43:50] <alex_joni> cradek: should I say this?
[18:44:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: works fine here too
[18:44:03] <cradek> say what?
[18:44:27] <alex_joni> cradek: there seems to be a problem with the redrawing of the AXIS screen
[18:44:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "HAL:1: ERROR: signal 'axisui.jog.x' not found" though.
[18:44:42] <alex_joni> if I drag the window around, sometimes the 3D preview stays blank
[18:45:15] <cradek> move the entire axis window, or translate the view inside axis?
[18:45:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: mine stays good
[18:45:23] <alex_joni> entire AXIS window
[18:45:42] <cradek> does it redraw when you translate the view or use the scrollwheel?
[18:45:56] <alex_joni> it does redraw OK
[18:45:56] <cradek> any errors on stdout?
[18:46:01] <alex_joni> no
[18:46:11] <cradek> might be an xserver issue then
[18:46:15] <alex_joni> this only seems to happen if I drag it outside the screen
[18:46:28] <cradek> what do you mean
[18:46:51] <alex_joni> If I drag AXIS around my workspace it's OK
[18:47:04] <alex_joni> but if I move it outside the viewable area then it happens
[18:47:15] <cradek> probably not an axis bug
[18:47:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> doesn't that happen with most apps?
[18:47:19] <cradek> try other GL apps
[18:47:55] <alex_joni> glxgears flickers when I drag it outside
[18:48:03] <alex_joni> but I guess they redraw more often :)
[18:48:10] <cradek> yes it redraws all the time
[18:48:15] <alex_joni> any other Gl apps I might try?
[18:48:20] <cradek> what gl driver are you using?
[18:48:36] <alex_joni> I think mesa-soft
[18:48:41] <alex_joni> but I have no clue :D
[18:48:46] <cradek> glxinfo|head
[18:48:48] <alex_joni> didn't alter with it
[18:48:48] <cradek> direct rendering: Yes
[18:48:49] <cradek> server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
[18:49:05] <alex_joni> SGI
[18:49:24] <alex_joni> direct rendering: No
[18:49:24] <alex_joni> server glx vendor string: SGI
[18:49:24] <alex_joni> server glx version string: 1.2
[18:49:52] <cradek> OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation
[18:49:52] <cradek> OpenGL renderer string: GeForce FX 5600/AGP/SSE2/3DNOW!
[18:49:57] <cradek> seems it should say Mesa in there somewhere
[18:50:32] <alex_joni> OpenGL vendor string: Mesa project: www.mesa3d.org
[18:50:32] <alex_joni> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
[18:50:32] <alex_joni> OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.4.1)
[18:50:38] <cradek> ok
[18:50:43] <cradek> I'm surprised it doesn't work right then
[18:50:54] <cradek> maybe you should use breezy :-)
[18:51:17] <cradek> OpenGL renderer string: Mesa GLX Indirect
[18:51:17] <cradek> OpenGL version string: 1.2 (1.5 Mesa 6.2.1)
[18:51:21] <cradek> this is breezy
[18:51:34] <alex_joni> hmm.. after running glxgears, I can't replicate it anymore
[18:51:45] <cradek> yuck
[18:52:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> cradek: anything that you were wondering with lathes?
[18:52:37] <alex_joni> never mind..
[18:52:49] <alex_joni> cradek: I can live with this
[18:52:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> s/wondering/wondering about
[18:53:11] <cradek> I think emc/lathe is done for a while
[18:53:24] <cradek> I'm going to work on building my lathe now
[18:53:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ooh, ok
[18:53:54] <cradek> I think it's working quite well and has the most important features now
[18:54:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> indeed
[18:55:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: any idea of how to get the switch to work?
[18:55:45] <cradek> the hardest part about my plan for the X axis is going to be finding a long 5-40 screw
[18:55:55] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> 5-40?
[18:56:03] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: I'm not sure I understand what is wrong with your setup
[18:56:22] <cradek> yes standard screws are 4-40 and 6-32, but my leadscrew has 5-40 holding the end piece on
[18:56:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> does this line work for you in a hal startup file? "linkpp parport.0.pin-11-in halui.spindle.start"
[18:56:49] <cradek> bbl
[18:57:11] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: did you run halui?
[18:57:19] <alex_joni> 'HALUI = halui' in the ini
[18:57:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, probably not
[18:57:41] <alex_joni> check the halvcp_halui/*.ini
[18:57:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> that should be before the lines that load the hal commands, right?
[18:58:08] <alex_joni> doesn't matter.. it should be under [HAL]
[18:58:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok
[18:59:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, I do load halui
[18:59:37] <alex_joni> ok..
[18:59:42] <alex_joni> can you pastebin again?
[19:00:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the errors in the terminal?
[19:00:48] <alex_joni> yeah
[19:01:53] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> http://pastebin.ca/74176
[19:02:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I closed emc wilfully
[19:02:43] <alex_joni> oh, so it is running?
[19:03:10] <alex_joni> cradek: can you take a peak?
[19:03:19] <alex_joni> er.. peek
[19:03:34] <SWPadnos> is the spindle_on button activated all the time, or do you need to change that to pin-11-in-not?
[19:03:47] <alex_joni> I guess he needs the -in-not
[19:03:56] <cradek> halui is causing an error by turning the spindle on while in estop
[19:04:06] <SWPadnos> there may be other issues, but I'd say that turning the spindle on automatically at startup is an error ;)
[19:04:08] <cradek> this error causes axis to puke because it comes in before axis has initialized itself
[19:04:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: I've tested starting with the switch in both positions, same effect
[19:04:18] <alex_joni> cradek: thanks for backing me up..
[19:04:25] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: halcmd show pin
[19:04:28] <alex_joni> and make sure it works
[19:04:37] <alex_joni> how did you connect it?
[19:04:45] <cradek> I agree with SWP's analysis!
[19:04:48] <alex_joni> cradek: I kinda thought so too..
[19:05:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> "linkpp parport.0.pin-11-in halui.spindle.start"
[19:05:24] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: I meant the physical button
[19:05:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh
[19:05:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> haha
[19:05:49] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it a toggle switch with a pullup. in effect one position gives 1 another 0
[19:06:03] <SWPadnos> does it stay where you put it?
[19:06:08] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> yes
[19:06:12] <SWPadnos> that's bad
[19:06:13] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, but that's not the issue here
[19:06:21] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: can you make sure it works?
[19:06:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> halmeter says it works...
[19:06:40] <alex_joni> start halmeter and look at the parport.0.pin-11-in value?
[19:06:44] <alex_joni> and switch it around?
[19:07:14] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> works like I said
[19:07:23] <alex_joni> ok, then leave it to 0 and start again
[19:07:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> one position true, the other false
[19:07:28] <alex_joni> start emc2 again
[19:08:46] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> wtf. It loaded now, after I had loaded it in the same way many times before, but without errors
[19:09:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the only difference was that I set it to <pin>-not
[19:09:11] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> becuase I wanted that with the hardware
[19:09:15] <Jymmm> After I get ubuntu installed, is it just a matter of apt-get install emc2 ?
[19:09:37] <cradek> Jymmm: you have to add a repository, but pretty much yes
[19:09:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> however the switch doesn't do anything
[19:10:02] <Jymmm> cradek Cool, is there a url with the list of repositorys?
[19:10:14] <cradek> instructions are on the wiki
[19:10:15] <jepler> Jymmm: not quite that simple. start at step 2: http://linuxcnc.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=4&lang=en
[19:10:16] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: load a halmeter and look at halui.spindle.start
[19:10:34] <cradek> and there
[19:10:44] <alex_joni> when that value goes from 0 to 1, it should start the spindle (see it in AXIS)
[19:11:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> halui.spindle.start is always false
[19:11:21] <SWPadnos> actually, this may be an initialization issue in halui
[19:11:25] <alex_joni> halcmd show sig
[19:11:26] <Jymmm> thanks
[19:11:28] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> but parport.1.pin-11-in-not works
[19:11:53] <SWPadnos> old_halui_data is never initialized (though it *should* be initialized to 0 by C)
[19:12:06] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: even if that's true.. I see no reason for it not to toggle
[19:12:11] <SWPadnos> I agree
[19:12:23] <alex_joni> but you're right..
[19:12:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> http://pastebin.ca/74188
[19:13:57] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: that's ODD
[19:14:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh crap
[19:14:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ...
[19:14:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> * Lerneaen_Hydra2 smacks head
[19:14:13] <alex_joni> ahahaha
[19:14:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> * Lerneaen_Hydra2 against the desk
[19:14:16] <alex_joni> parport.1 ?
[19:14:23] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> * Lerneaen_Hydra2 vicoiusly
[19:14:26] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:14:26] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: yes
[19:14:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> DOH!
[19:14:30] <alex_joni> LOL
[19:15:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py:
[19:15:12] <CIA-8> when an emc error (e.g., 'command cannot be executed until the machine is out
[19:15:12] <CIA-8> of E-stop and turned on') was pending when axis started, it could lead to
[19:15:12] <CIA-8> Python exceptions such as "AttributeError: LivePlotter instance has no
[19:15:12] <CIA-8> attribute 'logger'". Reorganize startup a bit to fix this.
[19:15:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> wtf.. I'm gettings errors again
[19:15:31] <alex_joni> yeah, you need to connect it to pin-11-in not -not
[19:15:40] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: why not -not?
[19:15:45] <alex_joni> or move the switch in the other position
[19:15:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> it's set to false currentöy
[19:15:57] <alex_joni> cause it probably worked OK the first time, but then we inverted
[19:16:01] <alex_joni> really?
[19:16:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh, ok
[19:16:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> uh, lemme test first ;)
[19:16:24] <SWPadnos> you know - there should be some way to disable HALUI until after loading and configuration are done
[19:16:28] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: don't bother.. jepler already fixed axis for that..
[19:16:41] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: so do I get a new version of axis?
[19:16:52] <SWPadnos> this is done in RT by not starting threads until everything necessary has been connected
[19:17:03] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: with a dedication
[19:17:04] <alex_joni> :D
[19:17:15] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: huh?
[19:17:23] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: kidding
[19:17:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I don't see it as a bug
[19:17:45] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> uh, ok. that one flew way over my head ;)
[19:17:56] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ...O.... <- joke
[19:17:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra2>
[19:17:58] <Lerneaen_Hydra2>
[19:18:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> o
[19:18:04] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> |
[19:18:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ^ me
[19:18:24] <alex_joni> :-/
[19:19:01] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> how long till the tar.gz us updated?
[19:19:14] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: grab the CVS version?
[19:19:39] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I don't know the adress
[19:19:59] <jepler> Lerneaen_Hydra2: :pserver:[email protected]:2401/cvsroot
[19:20:05] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> how do I use that?
[19:20:28] <jepler> cvs -d:pserver:[email protected]:2401/cvsroot co axis
[19:20:30] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> (I'm still somewhat new to linux and cvs)
[19:20:42] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: in the correct dir?
[19:20:57] <alex_joni> Anonymous access to the CVS server is available too. The CVSROOT is :pserver:[email protected]:2401/cvsroot
[19:21:07] <jepler> do that in ~ or tmp, then "mv" the newly created axis directory into emc2/src, remove the old axis dir, re-run configure
[19:25:13] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> I still get errors :(
[19:25:27] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm. I'll have to continue with this later
[19:25:27] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: what now?
[19:25:33] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> i'll pastebin them though
[19:26:31] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> http://pastebin.ca/74197
[19:26:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> also the behavior is strange
[19:26:39] <alex_joni> cradek: btw, just for info, seems that probe is working great
[19:26:45] <alex_joni> some german user reported this
[19:27:20] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> when first turning it on it works, but then I can't turn it off, so I turn it off via AXIS. after that I have to turn it to on, off, then on again to start it again
[19:27:44] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> anyway. g'night
[19:27:57] <SWPadnos> it's meant to be used with momentary contaqct switches
[19:28:18] <SWPadnos> so you should have to press another button, connected to spindle-off, to turn off the spindle
[19:28:23] <alex_joni> right
[19:28:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> oh.
[19:28:31] <SWPadnos> you should be able to flick the switch on then off, and still have the spindle start
[19:28:34] <alex_joni> or add another hal component to do that
[19:28:38] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> SWPadnos: that works
[19:28:51] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, I may add some hardware to emulate the two buttons
[19:28:57] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: it might get tricked if you do this:
[19:29:03] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't do that. it's that way for a reason
[19:29:11] <alex_joni> linkpp parport.0.pin-11-in halui.spindle.start
[19:29:17] <alex_joni> linkpp parport.0.pin-11-in-not halui.spindle.stop
[19:29:29] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: right
[19:29:32] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, I'll test that
[19:29:37] <alex_joni> I also advice against this :)
[19:29:38] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't do that. it's that way for a reason ;)
[19:30:03] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> the main reason being that it doesn't start spontaneusly on coming in to manual jog mode?
[19:30:25] <SWPadnos> yep
[19:31:02] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: that works now
[19:31:10] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: it's an UGLY HACK
[19:31:18] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: I take it the switch will only change the state in jog mode?
[19:31:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: indeed...
[19:31:25] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: yes
[19:31:25] <SWPadnos> an UGLY and DANGEROUS HACK
[19:31:37] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: not sure about dangerous
[19:31:43] <alex_joni> halui only switches on transients
[19:31:59] <alex_joni> so no reason fearing it will go on without touching the button.. I think
[19:32:10] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ideally there would be a function that when it receives a change in signal outputs a signal (basically the derivative of the input signal)
[19:32:10] <alex_joni> but I would still not go near that spindle
[19:32:11] <SWPadnos> hmmm - that may be OK, but contact bounce may still get you
[19:32:44] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: you can do that in CL
[19:32:55] <SWPadnos> you know - "oops - the switch is on, let me turn it off", and the spindle starts
[19:33:00] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> alex_joni: can I connect CL, halui, and the hardware?
[19:33:08] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: no.. it stops
[19:33:17] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: sure, that's the beauty of the HAL
[19:33:24] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> sweet!
[19:33:41] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: you CAN'T think of a too complicated design that can't be implemented :D
[19:33:55] <SWPadnos> unless you run out of HAL shared memory ;)
[19:34:14] <alex_joni> that's only a SMOP
[19:34:18] <SWPadnos> but you really don't want to think that hard :)
[19:34:24] <alex_joni> lol, yeah
[19:34:32] <alex_joni> unless you use an HAL-config generator
[19:34:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, the switch works in MDI, and gives an error when running a program
[19:34:43] <alex_joni> like an autorouter :D
[19:34:44] <SWPadnos> correct
[19:34:49] <SWPadnos> urk
[19:34:54] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: great
[19:34:57] <SWPadnos> do you have flash?
[19:35:02] <alex_joni> Lerneaen_Hydra2: sounds like the way it should be
[19:35:07] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ideally there wouldn't be an error, but this is good
[19:35:09] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah
[19:35:18] <SWPadnos> check out these autorouter videos:
[19:35:31] <SWPadnos> well - semi-manual multi=pin routing, that is
[19:35:47] <SWPadnos> http://www.altium.com/Evaluate/DEMOcenter/AltiumDesignerNewFeatures/Enhancementstosupportmultitrackrouting/
[19:35:50] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> ok, this works.
[19:35:54] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> g'night all
[19:36:16] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> hmm, terminal still gives tinker errors though
[19:36:29] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> (see pastebin link higher up)
[19:36:33] <jepler> maybe a HAL component that works like this would allow a 2-position switch to be used like 2 buttons: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/topulse.png
[19:37:09] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> jepler: that's what I was talking about
[19:37:19] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> anway, g'night
[19:37:23] <etla> SWP: whats the price of an altium license ? ;)
[19:37:35] <Lerneaen_Hydra2> thanks for the help :)
[19:37:49] <SWPadnos> $10k for the PCB + schematic. $12k for everything, including FPGA
[19:38:07] <SWPadnos> for that, you'd expect nice multi-track routing ;)
[19:38:08] <alex_joni> sounds like a yummy feature when making motherboards
[19:38:25] <SWPadnos> or anything with memory, LCD displays, ...
[19:38:40] <alex_joni> well.. I actually meant the pricerange :D
[19:38:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:38:59] <alex_joni> not your usual .2$ micro & 4$ LCD
[19:39:18] <SWPadnos> I think you can use timedelay / debounce to generate those one-shot pulses from a switch
[19:39:26] <SWPadnos> but I'd have to think about how
[19:40:06] <SWPadnos> and some logic, like and2's
[19:40:13] <alex_joni> seems like the need of a pulse component
[19:40:22] <SWPadnos> edge-detect
[19:43:04] <fenn> i hate you swpadnos
[19:43:29] <fenn> * fenn mutters about $10k pcb's
[19:43:46] <alex_joni> lol
[19:43:49] <alex_joni> fenn: hi
[19:44:05] <alex_joni> fenn: was looking for a 3-legged stewart today
[19:44:25] <SWPadnos> it's a lot of money, but when it allows you to complete a $850,000 project on time, it's a pretty good deal
[19:44:35] <SWPadnos> of course, that assumes that the $850,00 project actually happens
[19:44:39] <SWPadnos> +0
[19:44:45] <alex_joni> *0
[19:44:50] <SWPadnos> yeah :(
[19:45:08] <alex_joni> $850,00 * 0 = 0 :)
[19:45:20] <SWPadnos> I've noticed that
[19:45:51] <fenn> alex_joni: what for?
[19:46:06] <alex_joni> a slightly simpler turn/tilt table
[19:46:17] <alex_joni> fenn: found one eventually
[19:46:31] <fenn> 3 variable struts and 1 fixed strut?
[19:46:43] <alex_joni> no, only 3 variables
[19:46:49] <fenn> wuzzat called.. a tricept i think
[19:46:56] <alex_joni> tricycle
[19:47:00] <alex_joni> lol
[19:47:16] <jepler> maybe for halui it doesn't need to be a pulse .. so it's just IN and NOT IN for the two outputs
[19:47:28] <jepler> except then you are stuck with either senidng a "spindle start" or a "spindle stop" to emc too early
[19:48:00] <SWPadnos> hence the need for a "wait until init is done" input of some sort
[19:48:14] <alex_joni> fenn: http://serve.me.nus.edu.sg/ongsk/SP2004.JPG
[19:48:28] <jepler> halui.enable-in ?
[19:48:43] <SWPadnos> something like that, or even a parameter that the UI can turn on
[19:48:56] <SWPadnos> that way it can't be connected to a hardware pin
[19:49:23] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes to bed
[19:49:33] <SWPadnos> night night Alex
[19:49:34] <alex_joni> nuff for today :)
[19:49:51] <fenn> me too
[19:50:06] <SWPadnos> yep - I guess it's errand time
[19:50:12] <SWPadnos> or is that errant time? :)
[19:51:06] <fenn> i dont see how that tripod could possibly work
[19:51:26] <jepler> or just make halui not send a nml command if some input starts at high level .. only when it changes from low to high
[19:51:53] <SWPadnos> yep - that would also do it, but only for startup glitches
[19:52:12] <SWPadnos> a parameter / pin would allow a UI to enable or disable a physical pendant
[19:52:17] <SWPadnos> a GUI, that is
[20:01:19] <K4ts> hello
[20:50:23] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Did you say that you installed 6.06 server version?
[21:57:16] <robin_sz> meep?
[21:57:33] <robin_sz> * robin_sz meeps
[21:57:58] <anonimasu> hello
[21:58:09] <anonimasu> I'm finally off work
[22:00:13] <anonimasu> what's that thin in alex's dropbox?
[22:03:47] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: I dont know yet, as I have a USC I can still keep a reasonable period
[22:14:22] <jepler> 03 float -W -inf axis.7.motor-pos-cmd
[22:14:35] <jepler> I just noticed something interesting in my "halcmd show pin"
[22:15:00] <Jymmm> jepler: Meant to ask you... why did you use a USB2SERIAL with that ARM uC ?
[22:15:30] <jepler> Jymmm: oh yeah, I saw that scroll by but never answered
[22:15:37] <jepler> Jymmm: this laptop doesn't have a traditional serial port
[22:16:00] <Jymmm> jepler: Ah, ok.
[22:16:17] <jepler> Jymmm: but if you're going to custom-make a control panel + microcontroller + PC interface, USB is almost as easy as rs232 serial these days
[22:16:45] <jepler> (lower component count than the old max232 with several external caps, but packages that are harder for hobbyists to use)
[22:16:57] <robin_sz> sigh,
[22:17:13] <jepler> and it will even be on new PCs in 2 years from now
[22:17:19] <robin_sz> yet another crap day at the office .. no, wait .. a good day, but staff ebing a pain
[22:17:29] <robin_sz> being
[22:17:54] <robin_sz> somedays, I think I might have employed 6yr olds, not welders
[22:18:17] <jepler> is it possible that they're both?
[22:18:20] <jepler> 6 year olds, and welders
[22:18:28] <robin_sz> indeed.
[22:19:04] <robin_sz> anyway, got to quote on a good contract today. hope we get it.
[22:19:05] <Jymmm> jepler: Any reason ARM instead of atmel?
[22:19:22] <Jymmm> or do you mean the AT91xx ?
[22:19:58] <robin_sz> any of you ever worked in Cromweld? that the 'almost' stainless steel,
[22:20:12] <robin_sz> 3CR12 is another name, or 1.4003
[22:20:50] <jepler> Jymmm: it's what was handy. I would have to breadboard the stuff for the AVR, but I picked up this "arm stamp" and felt like using it instead. http://emergent.unpy.net/projects/01141702410 http://www.futurlec.com/ET-ARM_Stamp.shtml
[22:22:30] <Jymmm> jepler 46 I/O wow
[22:22:46] <robin_sz> quite a lot of the FPGAs now have cores for things like atmel AVR and 80C51 etc, so you can just embed one with a load of logic on a FPGA
[22:23:07] <jepler> robin_sz: FPGA is a "one of these" days things for me
[22:23:48] <robin_sz> if you get a moment and have a spare Windows machine, look at the Xilinx IDE, its super easy to use
[22:24:10] <robin_sz> free (as in beer) too
[22:24:33] <Jymmm> $25 for the stamp, and $23 for the dev board... Shit, that's the same price for the BASIC STAMP alone!
[22:26:19] <jepler> Jymmm: if you're an AVR fan make sure you check the ET-AVR board too (atmega128, $19.90)
[22:26:33] <jepler> I don't have that board but I assume it's also just fine
[22:27:02] <robin_sz> I sorta like these zworld RABBIT processors now
[22:27:05] <robin_sz> sorta :)
[22:27:34] <robin_sz> being able to program them in C helps
[22:27:42] <jepler> I wouldn't touch something I couldn't program in C
[22:27:47] <robin_sz> quite
[22:27:53] <robin_sz> assembler sucks
[22:28:46] <robin_sz> almost as much as Basic :)
[22:28:47] <jepler> I have programmed asm for avr, but usually fewer than 25 lines per project
[22:29:06] <robin_sz> quite. a little is OK for some interface or some such
[22:29:19] <robin_sz> or configuring the thing
[22:29:27] <robin_sz> but best avoided
[22:31:38] <robin_sz> I wrote the os for a TV once, all the I2C routines etc in assembler ... it even went into production. Im sure there must be people cursing it now "hey, why did it just mue the volume .. again"
[22:35:06] <Jymmm> I was looking at the 'gps modules' on the ARM page and it made me think... aren't the external gps antennas really the whole receiver and the gps just sends DC out to power it and the "external antenna" just sends the signal back?
[22:36:20] <robin_sz> the external antennae sends is usually just a antenae and a pre amp
[22:37:19] <robin_sz> but you can get a whole rx for $50 or so anyway
[22:37:32] <robin_sz> I think motorla even do a USB one
[22:37:52] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/External-Amplified-GPS-Antenna-Cable-Magnetic-Mount-15_W0QQitemZ170002900827QQihZ007QQcategoryZ73348QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[22:38:34] <Jymmm> For some reason I was thiking the ext antennas had a Rx in them too
[22:39:30] <Jymmm> That be totally cool... I could shove the NEMA data directly to my rig!
[22:40:26] <asdfq-shop> Since when does GPS need to Tx? You're just picking up 3 or more satellite signals
[22:40:49] <jepler> the previous generation of these receivers were like that. Everything is in the brick at the end, and at the other end was a RS232-voltage serial with a nonstandard pinout. Now they're USB. http://www.deluoelectronics.com/customer/product.php?productid=119&cat=27&page=1
[22:40:58] <robin_sz> well, usually, yes its RX only, but not always
[22:41:36] <jepler> bbl
[22:41:36] <asdfq-shop> What, now they have a 'here I am!' transmission?
[22:41:43] <Jymmm> asdfq-shop: When it's connected to my rig ---? http://www.gigaparts.com/parts/profile.php?sku=zkw-tm-d700a
[22:41:59] <jepler> asdfq-shop: haven't you watched the bad spy shows on TV? they always track people using the GPS transmitter in their cellphone...!
[22:42:29] <Jymmm> asdfq-shop: APRS --> http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs.html
[22:43:09] <asdfq-shop> Who would be using GPS Tx?
[22:43:14] <Jymmm> asdfq-shop: http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/track.cgi?call=k4hg-8&start=9999&geo=usa.geo
[22:44:30] <Jymmm> I've used findu.com when I took a road trip from SF to LA and gave all my friends the url... they could see where I was at at any time... so if they wanted to go to the store, they knew I was 100 miles away or whatever.
[22:44:33] <robin_sz> asdfq-shop, theres two way data on the GPS satellites AFAIK,
[22:45:59] <Jymmm> asdfq-shop: My HT has APRS as well... So if you're part of a search and rescue operation, base can see where everyone is, where they have searched, where they havne't looked yet, and not duplicate efforts.
[22:47:01] <robin_sz> we have that over here too .. RAYNET
[22:47:37] <Jymmm> asdfq-shop: (didnt see you dropped out...) My HT has APRS as well... So if you're part of a search and rescue operation, base can see where everyone is, where they have searched, where they havne't looked yet, and not duplicate efforts.
[22:48:07] <robin_sz> they used to get asked to help running checkpoints on various races and long distance events. then the cell-phone was invented.
[22:49:10] <Jymmm> Yeah the Foothill ARC (iirc) is the one that does the Rosebowl Parade every year, I remember them finding a bomb once.
[22:49:32] <robin_sz> did it go "bang" ?
[22:49:55] <Jymmm> I think they saw they guy trying to plant the bomb actually.
[22:50:08] <Jymmm> so ,no it didn't
[22:50:20] <robin_sz> gah, party poopers
[22:50:54] <robin_sz> everyone likes a nice bomb
[22:50:57] <Jymmm> eh, 120,000 ppl all around... all that blood and guts to clean up
[22:51:06] <robin_sz> makes things go off with a bang :)
[22:52:06] <asdfq-shop> Good grief, internet access is harder than pulling teeth today
[22:53:18] <Jymmm> jepler: this one says serial with the proper adapter... http://www.deluoelectronics.com/customer/product.php?productid=99&cat=1&page=1
[22:55:50] <Jymmm> Are you Jealous? Is your spouse cheating on you? Are your kids mucking around? Buy this ---> http://www.deluoelectronics.com/customer/product.php?productid=21&cat=11&page=1
[22:56:44] <Jymmm> "You too can become a professional stalker to the stars"