#emc | Logs for 2006-07-03

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[00:00:38] <fenn> heh.. "jiffies handler"
[00:00:43] <les_w> I have sold the concept of real time linux to control factory automation. The funding would come from a large corporation, and specific code would have to be a trade secret at very least
[00:00:50] <les_w> not released of course
[00:01:00] <robin_sz> so? ... thats normal
[00:01:03] <les_w> sure
[00:01:11] <robin_sz> it wold release only internally right?
[00:01:18] <les_w> right
[00:01:26] <jmkasunich> so I fail to see the problem
[00:01:29] <robin_sz> thats entirely compatible withthe GPL
[00:01:32] <cradek> me too
[00:02:07] <jmkasunich> if the problem is that you need a hal expert who can give you 40 hours a week and the available ones can't do that, I understand. but that has nothing to do with NDA
[00:02:11] <fenn> well, one problem is it doesn't really help EMC very much
[00:02:13] <les_w> I don't write code for real time linux operating systems obviously. I need to hire people thatr do though.
[00:02:45] <robin_sz> fenn, no it could still help EMC, as some none secret stuff will get pushed back into the core
[00:02:51] <fenn> i mean, say you just wrote an fft block, and then you couldnt legally write one right?
[00:03:06] <fenn> s/write/write another/
[00:03:20] <robin_sz> mmm, not knowing .. depends on the contract I guess
[00:03:22] <cradek> "depends"
[00:03:30] <jmkasunich> it would be silly for les to fund the writing of an FFT block and not make the block itself public
[00:03:35] <les_w> I need things like ffts and software phase locked loops
[00:03:48] <jmkasunich> the "magic" he's trying to hide isn't ffts and plls, its the application of them
[00:03:56] <les_w> true
[00:04:13] <cradek> but silly or not, still there's no obligation to release them
[00:04:28] <robin_sz> so ...
[00:04:42] <jmkasunich> so have your hired hand write the FFT and PLL block and contribute them, then write proprietary HAL code to connect the blocks and do your magic, and keep that private
[00:04:57] <jmkasunich> we'd be more inclined to help your hired hand if the blocks were gonna be public
[00:04:59] <les_w> No code my client funds would ever be released publicly....
[00:05:09] <robin_sz> even if they didnt make it public, there would still be stuff pushed back into the core code that helped
[00:05:17] <jmkasunich> then your client is an ass and we have no desire to help him
[00:05:29] <robin_sz> .like bug fixes etc
[00:05:34] <jmkasunich> (speaking only for myself)
[00:05:45] <fenn> * fenn seconds that
[00:05:57] <robin_sz> even for $$$? after all, its just a job, right?
[00:06:13] <jmkasunich> I already have "just a job", thank you very much
[00:06:15] <fenn> well.. nobody's gonna hire _me_ to write code
[00:06:38] <les_w> me either...but that's not my job!
[00:06:56] <robin_sz> im sure there a replenty of capable and hungry programmers out there
[00:06:57] <cradek> sometimes it seems like as soon as someone has $$$ he ceases to understand free software
[00:07:00] <jmkasunich> just making the point that waving $$$ doesn't always get things done
[00:07:05] <cradek> or it could be me who doesn't get it
[00:07:14] <robin_sz> shrug ...
[00:07:25] <les_w> I plead guilty...
[00:07:25] <robin_sz> its free softrware ... people can use it how they like
[00:07:36] <cradek> yes, within the limits of the license
[00:07:38] <jmkasunich> yep
[00:07:40] <robin_sz> quite
[00:07:48] <fenn> * fenn starts placing logs around les's feet
[00:07:49] <jmkasunich> dinnertime
[00:07:54] <les_w> haha
[00:07:57] <robin_sz> and that includes writing new stuff and keeping it internal
[00:08:10] <les_w> enjoy dinner jmk
[00:08:48] <les_w> I just want a system like I did years ago with soft RT dos...running a factory
[00:09:00] <les_w> 20 years ago
[00:09:21] <robin_sz> theres better ways now
[00:09:30] <les_w> exactly
[00:09:39] <robin_sz> CAN/OPEN is worht a look
[00:10:04] <les_w> I do some can car stuff
[00:10:53] <les_w> but it seems to me that c programs in real time linux have a lot of the attributes we had with the old dos stuff
[00:11:14] <les_w> BTW the old dos stuff is still being used in our UK plant
[00:11:22] <robin_sz> http://www.canopen.org/ and http://www.canopen.us/
[00:11:30] <les_w> looking
[00:12:05] <les_w> ach dead link?
[00:12:25] <les_w> oh never mind
[00:12:30] <les_w> pasted too much
[00:13:06] <les_w> well I could use lots of things
[00:13:28] <les_w> all manner of proprietary software and hardware
[00:13:45] <les_w> superplcs to galil
[00:14:06] <les_w> but the old c stuff in dos worked so well...
[00:14:24] <les_w> I want a modern equivalent
[00:14:37] <les_w> because...
[00:14:52] <les_w> we could do things that black boxes could not
[00:15:04] <fenn> like what?
[00:15:09] <les_w> and we kept it secret
[00:16:05] <les_w> well, fenn, a manufacturing system based on adaptive control that just kept getting smarter and smarter and smarter
[00:16:16] <les_w> relentless
[00:16:30] <robin_sz> I expect its been done already
[00:16:49] <robin_sz> its a balance isnt it
[00:16:55] <fenn> sounds mildly apocalyptic
[00:17:02] <les_w> I am going to srtay with that concept, because it made a lot of money in the past.
[00:17:16] <robin_sz> one the one hand you go "lets keep it secret, just in case someone wants to make our widget"
[00:17:42] <robin_sz> and perhaps, even if you released it no one ever would, because its protected by patents etc
[00:18:14] <robin_sz> and on the other hand, you might miss out on a random contribution from the opther side of the planet that saves you millions a year
[00:18:14] <les_w> AW we had millions spent in partent litigation
[00:18:31] <les_w> it was the relentless software that protected us
[00:18:45] <les_w> haha
[00:19:14] <robin_sz> shrug .. simple busines decision in the end
[00:19:21] <les_w> yeah.
[00:19:30] <les_w> But this time...
[00:19:38] <les_w> I don't write code.
[00:19:45] <Dallur> All it takes for evil to prevail is for a few good people to say "It's just business"
[00:19:55] <Dallur> :P
[00:20:01] <robin_sz> I tned to favour the public components in a proprieary application idea
[00:20:02] <les_w> heh right dallur.
[00:20:48] <robin_sz> like err, Apache
[00:21:06] <robin_sz> apache itself is GPL
[00:21:16] <robin_sz> the m,ajority of the apps that run on it are not
[00:21:49] <robin_sz> hence big business contributes coders to apache, because it helps them run and build better apps
[00:22:06] <robin_sz> (expecially stuff like struts and tomcat)
[00:22:31] <les_w> Anyway, I have to sit in front of the money men. I have told them I must have a real time pc based system. I have told them that proprietary systems are not acceptable, because we do not have complete control.
[00:22:44] <les_w> thery said....
[00:22:47] <les_w> ok.
[00:23:11] <robin_sz> coo
[00:23:22] <les_w> yeah.
[00:23:38] <robin_sz> actually, with the amounts your guys throw around, you could have whatever you wanted, from scratch
[00:23:50] <les_w> they like the "complete control" concept
[00:23:55] <les_w> music to their ears
[00:24:05] <robin_sz> yeah
[00:24:13] <robin_sz> liek Bystronic found out ...
[00:24:13] <les_w> yes we can do it from scratch
[00:24:20] <les_w> but would rather not
[00:24:29] <robin_sz> Bystronic build lasers ...
[00:24:45] <les_w> I see
[00:24:45] <robin_sz> then Trumpf bought out the comapny that made the RF generators
[00:24:53] <les_w> heh
[00:24:56] <robin_sz> kinda screwed them
[00:25:09] <robin_sz> they got going again, and now want cotnrol of EVERYTHING
[00:25:21] <les_w> yup
[00:25:28] <les_w> hey....
[00:25:38] <les_w> you have me working on a holiday.
[00:25:48] <les_w> I am supposed to be off today!
[00:25:50] <robin_sz> holiday? Wats that
[00:25:59] <les_w> haha
[00:26:14] <robin_sz> still on my birthday weekend :)
[00:26:27] <robin_sz> 43 .. sigh.
[00:26:28] <les_w> well, I mowed 5 acres and tried to play golf.
[00:26:39] <les_w> happy birthday.
[00:26:42] <robin_sz> drank LOTS of gin last night :)
[00:26:43] <robin_sz> ta.
[00:26:48] <les_w> 10 Years younger than me.
[00:26:59] <robin_sz> grandpa!
[00:27:04] <les_w> bleh
[00:27:07] <les_w> heh
[00:27:38] <les_w> want a hint in what shape you will be in in ten years?
[00:27:41] <les_w> cough
[00:28:11] <robin_sz> thin, tanned and relaxed?
[00:28:45] <les_w> I am thin and tanned.... I mowed all that without a shirt today!
[00:28:50] <les_w> but not relaxed
[00:29:14] <robin_sz> im doing OK at relaxing ... low stress these days :)
[00:29:21] <les_w> not me.
[00:29:26] <robin_sz> chill dude
[00:29:34] <les_w> can't
[00:29:38] <les_w> type a
[00:29:47] <les_w> create it if there is none
[00:29:52] <robin_sz> I used to suffer BADLY with stress, now I just do what I do ...
[00:30:03] <robin_sz> stuff happnens, some stuff doesnt,
[00:30:18] <les_w> Oh I worked myself into the hospital with the heater thing
[00:30:24] <robin_sz> I thnk about stuff, but it doesnt worry me as such
[00:30:29] <les_w> blood sugar...
[00:30:32] <les_w> collapsed
[00:30:39] <robin_sz> euww
[00:30:49] <les_w> was out for 3 months
[00:30:56] <les_w> stress induced
[00:31:06] <les_w> well, kinda out
[00:31:18] <robin_sz> change what you cant accept, accept what you cant change
[00:31:24] <les_w> Had a laptop to write code in hospital
[00:31:35] <robin_sz> bad boy, no cookie
[00:31:39] <les_w> haha
[00:32:19] <robin_sz> like we get jobs in that we cant possibly do in time ..
[00:32:30] <robin_sz> it cant be done, simply not enough hours
[00:32:36] <robin_sz> my wife stresses about it ...
[00:32:44] <les_w> Actually I am going to take off the next two days
[00:32:47] <robin_sz> I dont ... it cant be doen, and thats that.
[00:32:53] <les_w> as most in this country do
[00:33:04] <robin_sz> some celbrations?
[00:33:05] <les_w> this time of year
[00:33:17] <robin_sz> passover?
[00:33:18] <les_w> just july fourth
[00:33:28] <robin_sz> ahh
[00:33:48] <les_w> we have fireworks and stuff
[00:33:51] <robin_sz> I told you, if you had just kept quiet and paid your taxes to king george, youd have been better off long term
[00:33:54] <les_w> and BBQs
[00:34:04] <les_w> and parades...but not here
[00:34:08] <robin_sz> and now look, you got dubya!
[00:34:13] <les_w> hahaha
[00:34:36] <les_w> well at least I live in GEORGIA.....
[00:35:13] <robin_sz> let me guess, you still have slaves, right?
[00:35:24] <les_w> heh
[00:35:51] <les_w> we have no parades or fireworks here...too far oyut in the woods
[00:35:54] <les_w> but
[00:36:11] <les_w> I'll fire some of the black powder guns for the kids
[00:36:13] <les_w> and me
[00:36:53] <robin_sz> nice
[00:37:01] <robin_sz> plenty of powder and some wadding
[00:37:07] <les_w> hey 160 DBA at 1 meter...it's a nice bang.
[00:37:24] <les_w> then all the soap and water bit cleaning the guns
[00:37:29] <robin_sz> BP gives a nice low thump
[00:37:39] <robin_sz> hits you in the stomach
[00:37:42] <les_w> kind of a boom yeah
[00:37:50] <robin_sz> nitor is more of a crack
[00:37:55] <les_w> right
[00:38:40] <robin_sz> ok bedtime for me
[00:38:48] <robin_sz> 02:45
[00:38:54] <robin_sz> bugger.
[00:38:58] <les_w> Well, I won't think about work anymore today.
[00:39:05] <les_w> yeah late
[00:39:07] <les_w> go to bed
[00:39:09] <robin_sz> later ...
[00:39:11] <robin_sz> bye
[00:51:36] <Jymmm> hey les_w
[00:52:35] <les_w> oh well no more work talk. That twilight zone episode about the kid that "wished things into the cornfield" is on.....
[00:52:41] <les_w> remember that?
[00:52:48] <Jymmm> les_w the ORIGINAL TZ ?
[00:52:52] <Jymmm> B&W?
[00:52:54] <les_w> yeah.
[00:53:11] <Jymmm> Yep, remember that one well... Lil Obie
[00:53:16] <les_w> the kid was ron howard?
[00:53:18] <Jymmm> Ron Howard
[00:53:31] <les_w> what a scary story
[00:53:36] <Jymmm> lol
[00:53:52] <Jymmm> the episode I LOVED the most is "kick the can"
[00:54:03] <les_w> oh yeah
[00:54:24] <les_w> my favorite is the one with the gremlin on the airplane wing
[00:54:32] <Jymmm> When you stop playing kick the ca, you grow old.
[00:54:50] <Jymmm> heh, yeah, and everyone thought the guys was nuts
[00:55:22] <les_w> I have had a gremlin or two in aircraft.
[00:55:35] <fenn> my favorite is the one where the guy is being chased down the street by robot arms
[00:55:36] <Jymmm> lol
[00:55:54] <Jymmm> fenn I dont remembre that one
[00:56:18] <fenn> it wasn't a twilight zone episode.. :/
[00:56:23] <les_w> do anything today? I didn't. Just mowed a few acres, went to walmart, then drank beer.
[00:56:29] <Jymmm> les_w you gonna be around tomorrow?
[00:56:34] <les_w> yeah
[00:56:40] <les_w> I am off tommorow
[00:56:49] <les_w> oops
[00:56:51] <Jymmm> les_w: Ok, I got a coupel questions for ya
[00:56:55] <les_w> tomorrow
[00:56:59] <Jymmm> yep, tomorrow
[00:57:04] <les_w> haha
[00:57:36] <Jymmm> les_w it's regarding light tobe/difusers.
[00:57:46] <les_w> I just bought all flourescent lights forall fixtures since they suddenly got cheap
[00:57:48] <fenn> Jymmm: http://www.video-c.co.uk/microsite.asp?vidref=thec026
[00:57:56] <les_w> no more filament bulbs
[00:58:41] <Jymmm> les_w Now, you'll go blind
[00:58:50] <les_w> the bedroom lights have gone from 120 watts to 15 watts
[00:58:56] <les_w> but same lumens
[00:59:19] <les_w> the only filament bulb....
[00:59:25] <fenn> the fridge?
[00:59:26] <les_w> is in the lava light.
[00:59:32] <les_w> in the music room.
[00:59:37] <Mess> LOL
[00:59:40] <les_w> it needs the heat to work.
[00:59:58] <les_w> no even frige is flourescent now
[01:00:01] <Jymmm> les_w come on you wuss... convert that laval lamp to LED already =)
[01:00:17] <les_w> naw it just needs the heat
[01:00:39] <Jymmm> les_w LED's put out a LOT of heat =)
[01:00:44] <Mess> pussy... make it work,,,
[01:00:53] <les_w> haha
[01:00:56] <Jymmm> Yeah les_w, what Mess said.
[01:01:15] <Mess> tell us how...
[01:01:33] <les_w> you know I'm a lava light dippy bird type
[01:01:58] <cradek> les_w: do you know if there's some way to get the diameter of the currently loaded tool? is it in the vars somewhere?
[01:02:02] <Mess> i love them too.. so i coud use the help... LOL
[01:02:15] <les_w> and crooke's radiometer...the things that spin in the sun
[01:02:27] <Jymmm> les_w actually, that wouldn't be a bad idea... you know those things that turn when hit with light, use that yo make a LED lava lamp somehow. Joose arse kollaage edjumakated
[01:02:50] <les_w> heh
[01:02:58] <Mess> huh
[01:03:06] <Jymmm> les_w LOL, I was typing when you said that
[01:03:20] <Jymmm> les_w GMTA
[01:03:47] <les_w> uh...
[01:04:17] <les_w> go make tomatoes atmospheric?
[01:04:28] <Jymmm> les_w GMTA == Great minds think alike.
[01:04:36] <les_w> oh.
[01:04:38] <les_w> hahahaha
[01:04:46] <Jymmm> but I guess I was wrong =)
[01:04:51] <les_w> heh
[01:05:03] <Jymmm> it's all good =)
[01:05:07] <Mess> hey its potential atmospheric POTATOES.. ist itr
[01:05:16] <les_w> I just make finger burners.
[01:08:31] <Mess> learn to roll em
[01:09:27] <Mess> keep your thumbs together...
[01:15:37] <Jymmm> That's what a bong is for!
[01:16:08] <Jymmm> err... excuse me... "Water Pipe" ya, that's it, that's th ticket!
[01:18:05] <Rugludallur> fenn: I think you might have borked up the classicladder ui some more when you made that fix, now if I resize the window is not re-rendered and turns blank :(
[01:18:33] <fenn> Rugludallur: yes that is correct
[01:19:10] <Rugludallur> fenn: just thought I would mention it, was on my way to verify and close bug
[01:19:37] <fenn> Rugludallur: i commented out the offending code and it should work now (does it?) but i cant test because i cant currently compile on this machine
[01:19:53] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://static.flickr.com/71/176115969_d894084b87_o.jpg
[01:20:00] <fenn> oh now it's broken even more?
[01:20:11] <Rugludallur> Fenn: Yup,
[01:20:20] <fenn> * fenn sighs
[01:20:25] <Rugludallur> Fenn: now if I try to resize the main area goes blank and stays blank
[01:20:40] <fenn> well let me figure out my situation here
[01:20:54] <Rugludallur> * Rugludallur pats Fenn on the back, been there
[01:22:04] <Jymmm> {rock} {fenn} {hard place}
[01:22:36] <fenn> i seem to have broken it worse and worse each time i try to fix it
[01:22:51] <fenn> perhaps i should go to bed
[01:22:53] <Jymmm> fenn: I'm sure you'll find it.
[01:23:00] <cradek> use the cvs luke
[01:23:08] <Jymmm> Nooooooooooooooooooo!
[01:23:13] <cradek> just grab the version before your changes, and check it in
[01:23:22] <cradek> later, you can go back to finish your changes by getting those versions again
[01:23:56] <fenn> how do i specify which version to checkout? -r?
[01:24:13] <cradek> umm let me look
[01:25:43] <cradek> cvs up -r a.b.c -p file >file
[01:25:51] <fenn> i dont think i've ever had as much trouble compiling emc as today
[01:25:57] <cradek> cvs commit file -m'reverting to version a.b.c'
[01:26:05] <cradek> err
[01:26:11] <cradek> cvs commit -m'reverting to version a.b.c' file
[01:26:47] <Rugludallur> cradek: do I talk to you about getting permission to check in to CVS ? I was hoping to put my config under the sample configs but from what I gather an SSH key is required
[01:28:02] <cradek> sort of - we generally only give commit access to people who intend to be ongoing contributors (developers) and we ask that they send patches to a current developer the first couple times
[01:28:29] <Rugludallur> cradek: great, can I send to you ?
[01:28:51] <cradek> sure, I'll have a look at it
[01:29:12] <cradek> just email a tar to [email protected]
[01:29:28] <Rugludallur> kk
[01:29:42] <Jymmm> Does anyone have any 256 MB PC100 non-ECC DIMMS by chance?
[01:29:50] <cradek> is there novel stuff in your config that would make it a good sample?
[01:29:53] <fenn> Rugludallur: i think you've done good stuff so far
[01:30:04] <cradek> (I haven't kept up on what you're doing)
[01:30:24] <Rugludallur> cradek: biggest ladder around, vcp stuff, thc logic ...
[01:30:38] <cradek> oh right, you're the THC guy
[01:30:45] <cradek> sorry
[01:30:46] <Rugludallur> cradek: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
[01:30:50] <Rugludallur> cradek: NP :D
[01:30:53] <Mess> jymmi do... box is off line out of serrvice..
[01:31:13] <Jymmm> THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol)
[01:32:09] <jmkasunich> demon weed
[01:32:33] <Jymmm> Mess I have an old box that needs two of them, not wanting to invest a whole lot into it, but let me know much you would like for em if you want to get rid of em.
[01:32:46] <Mess> crystal THC (Tetrahydrocannabinol) ??? been a LONG time since i sen that stuff
[01:32:54] <Jymmm> jmkasunich hey now... you know you've had you share =)
[01:33:01] <jmkasunich> not
[01:33:07] <Jymmm> never ever?
[01:33:17] <jmkasunich> never ever
[01:33:22] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich was a boring geek
[01:33:27] <Jymmm> not one hit off a joint in your entire life?!
[01:33:38] <Mess> nor i.... i tend to SMOKE my vegetables...
[01:33:51] <jmkasunich> nope - been in the same room as others, but passed it along to the next guy
[01:34:10] <Mess> cuddos..
[01:34:18] <jmkasunich> intoxication (in all its forms) has little appeal for me
[01:34:21] <Jymmm> ok, I was almost gonna say what planet did you grow up on =)
[01:34:38] <Rugludallur> cradek: should have the file in 5 sec
[01:34:51] <Mess> so no alchohol either??
[01:35:05] <jmkasunich> beer, in moderation
[01:35:07] <jmkasunich> wine, ditto
[01:35:16] <zwisk> Whoa.. walk away from the computer for a bit and your scroll buffer fills up! :)
[01:35:36] <Mess> ahh so not SOBER..
[01:36:08] <Jymmm> Heh, school was really boring for me, so I got stoned instead. Only wish I would have learned more math/science.
[01:36:18] <zwisk> Hmm... so, we know jmk wasn't under the influence while writing hal :)
[01:36:38] <Jymmm> graduated at 16 and got the hell out of dodge!
[01:36:46] <Mess> i got stoned TO learn more maths and sciences... go figure
[01:36:58] <Jymmm> lol
[01:37:23] <Mess> i lasted till 19yrs old grd 13... ad got outta dodge
[01:37:46] <jmkasunich> hi zwisk
[01:37:49] <jmkasunich> long time no see
[01:38:02] <zwisk> yup. Just gettin' back into the emc swing of things. Howdy :)
[01:38:40] <zwisk> had some thoughts about revisiting the hal refactor (again again again ... ) recently...
[01:38:49] <jmkasunich> I keep putting that off
[01:38:55] <zwisk> hehe... me too.
[01:38:58] <Jymmm> Well, it would have been 15.5 but the school's secretary was hiding my papers from me. She wanted me to attend the graduation cerimonies. But the District Offices accidently narked her off when I received a notification in the mail =)
[01:39:03] <jmkasunich> and as more and more people start using it, a true refactor gets less likely
[01:39:25] <zwisk> Yesterday when I was having problems with the parallel port, I was wishing I didn't have to unload and reload everything though... which got me thinking again.
[01:39:43] <jmkasunich> thinking, thats dangerous
[01:39:48] <zwisk> indeed.
[01:39:58] <jmkasunich> btw, if we're gonna actually be discussing emc, we should probably move to #emc-devel
[01:40:05] <Jymmm> jmkasunich thinking is ok, it's acting on the thinking that's dangerous =)
[01:40:12] <zwisk> oh, is *that* where all the fun is these days? :)
[01:40:18] <Mess> My sis graduated grade 13 at 16yrs old... wasnt old enuf for a university pub till her 3rd yr... LOL
[01:40:21] <jmkasunich> dunno about fun...
[01:40:31] <zwisk> aww.. :)
[01:58:33] <Jymmm> has anyone laser cut paper phenolic ?
[01:59:20] <fenn> something tells me phenolic doesnt like being laser cut
[01:59:42] <Mess> It WIll smell LIKE shite...
[02:00:03] <Jymmm> I dont know what the resin is
[02:00:07] <Mess> and be VERY carcinogenic
[02:00:24] <Jymmm> ah. machining it is ok?
[02:00:42] <fenn> it machines fine if you dont mind the smell
[02:00:56] <Jymmm> it's only 1/32" if that makes a diff.
[02:01:12] <Mess> its phelol resin... machining it SUCKS too
[02:01:37] <Mess> lay the JUICE to it..
[02:01:58] <Mess> keep the airborn parts down...
[02:03:17] <Jymmm> juice? as in cooltant?
[02:03:26] <Mess> yes... FLOOOD
[02:03:35] <Jymmm> I have ZERO coolant
[02:03:41] <fenn> Because resin- and epoxy-based materials are cut by a chemical degradation process, cut edges are typically charred as material in the cut area is burned and then removed under pressure of an inert assist gas.
[02:03:55] <fenn> (this from a page talking about using co2 lasers to cut circuit board material)
[02:03:56] <Mess> not good for phenolic
[02:04:43] <fenn> so i guess it works
[02:04:59] <Mess> you would need a vacuum AND a highpressur asist gas
[02:05:24] <Mess> or they just BLOW 'er DOWN...
[02:05:54] <Mess> and hope the workers live till retirement
[02:07:30] <Jymmm> Ok, so laser is out. And maching your saying I should still exhaust?
[02:08:09] <Jymmm> or just have some type of coolant?
[02:08:14] <Mess> laser at 1/32 in the right machine... wont KILL ya..
[02:08:41] <fenn> Jymmm: actually the laser cut doesnt look bad at all: http://www.synrad.com/e-newsletters\08_19_04.htm
[02:09:05] <Mess> machining wet /flood shouldn't cause any health issues..
[02:10:04] <Mess> We are big on health and safety in canada...
[02:10:13] <Jymmm> fenn ok, cool.
[02:10:43] <Jymmm> I dont have coolant, I have a gantry router, and it would splash into the motor.
[02:12:29] <Mess> spray bottle??? keep the router wet...
[02:13:02] <Jymmm> it's totally enclosed to keep the dust contained.
[02:13:28] <Mess> it only makes poison when the temp get up
[02:13:39] <Jymmm> seriously?
[02:13:47] <Mess> and it IS POISON
[02:14:25] <Mess> sticks in the bottom of your lungs... never leaves
[02:14:51] <Jymmm> well, shit. is there another material that has the same heat properties?
[02:15:04] <Jymmm> continous 250 F
[02:15:18] <Mess> you CAN't push it out.. so it accumulates... but im the crackpot remember...
[02:15:53] <fenn> jymmm asbestos :)
[02:16:04] <Jymmm> fenn Gee, thanks! =)
[02:16:14] <Mess> oh thats a nice one to work with... NOT...
[02:16:40] <Mess> also accumulatete in lungs
[02:16:51] <fenn> just pushing peoples' buttons
[02:17:01] <Mess> and heavier than phenolics
[02:17:50] <Mess> i like a phenolic -asbesw many we could killtos mix just to see h
[02:18:01] <Mess> mix
[02:18:33] <Mess> fingers facked up sorry
[02:19:00] <Mess> i like a phenolic -asbesw many we could killtos mix just to see h
[02:19:00] <Mess> <Mess> mix
[02:19:09] <Mess> i like a phenolic -asbesw many we could killtos mix just to see h
[02:19:09] <Mess> <Mess> mix
[02:20:02] <fenn> great
[02:20:21] <fenn> me too
[02:20:29] <fenn> * fenn thinks its time to go to bed
[02:20:33] <Rugludallur> I'm starting to make a Corner Height Lock system for the plasma and I need a way to determine when feedrate drops below a configurable %, any thoughts on what is the easiest way to tap into the feedrate
[02:21:06] <Mess> mixed... it would have great mech prop's but a machining NIGHTMARE
[02:21:54] <Mess> for plasma... power to thickness ratio??
[02:23:07] <Rugludallur> Mess: What I need to do is lock the height of the torch relative to the material when the feedrate drops down due to cornering, but the actual speed can vary depending on material, amperage and more
[02:24:26] <Mess> inductive/ capacitance sensing??
[02:24:31] <Rugludallur> Mess: So what I need to do is detect maximum speed (normal feedrate) and as soon as the current feedrate < normal_feedrate*0.X I lock the height untill it is >
[02:24:52] <Rugludallur> Mess: inductive sensing for start only, the height during cut is done by measuring arc voltage
[02:25:59] <Mess> ok so adjust feed to meet the req'd arc volts??? might work??
[02:27:10] <Rugludallur> Mess: i already move the torch up/down based on the volts, but the problem is that when the feedrate drops the effect is that the torch is plunged down, this is not the desired effect during cornering so what I need to do is lock the height during cornering
[02:27:35] <Rugludallur> Mess: it's just to deal with the short time deaccelerating/accelerating
[02:28:38] <Mess> you need to set a MIN torch height.. 3-5 x kerf... and HOLD there in corners.. then resume ..
[02:29:15] <Mess> i love plasma cutting..
[02:29:39] <Mess> freehand..
[02:30:40] <Rugludallur> Mess: Right, except I want the MIN height to be configurable and I have to detect when I am actually cornering because if I set a fixed min height it can cause problems later
[02:33:42] <Rugludallur> Mess: So any thoughts on trying to detect the corners via feedrate ?
[02:34:28] <jmkasunich> Rugludallur: what is changing the feedrate? the program? or something external, thru the adaptive feed input?
[02:35:09] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: hmm I am not sure if the "feedrate" changes but the motors do slow down and speed up, this is what I had in mind to detect
[02:35:22] <jmkasunich> huh?
[02:35:55] <jmkasunich> if you are going parallel to X, only X is moving. if you then turn 90 degrees, X stops and Y starts... is that what you are talking about?
[02:36:05] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: yes
[02:36:16] <jmkasunich> the actual speed along the line might be constant (if the corner isn't too sharp)
[02:36:25] <jmkasunich> or do you care only about sharp corners?
[02:36:36] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: just the sharp ones
[02:36:53] <jmkasunich> I think jepler already wrote a HAL block that computes the vector velocity
[02:37:28] <jmkasunich> if you hook that up, its output will be the actual speed of the torch, independent of direction (aka feedrate)
[02:37:41] <jmkasunich> so you can send that to a comparator or whatever
[02:37:45] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: the problem is that if the torch spends more time at the corner it will make a wider cut, a wider cut will cause the arc voltage to decrease, and this moves the torch down
[02:38:03] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: That is exactly what I needed :D
[02:38:04] <jmkasunich> and you don't want it to move down
[02:38:16] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: yup
[02:38:22] <jmkasunich> so suppose you are cutting everything with F20
[02:38:47] <jmkasunich> the output of that block (dunno what its called) would normally be 20.0, but it would drop in tight corners
[02:39:08] <jmkasunich> it would also drop at other times, like whenver the torch stops, or if you use feedrate override to slow down, or...
[02:40:45] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: Yes, what I want to do is if a program is running I want to have a configurable % so that if the movement drops below the % the height is locked
[02:42:18] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: the corner will be a tiny bit undercut but at least the problem is minimised
[02:43:52] <jmkasunich> Rugludallur: the component is called "hypot", and its part of the "blocks" module
[02:44:04] <jmkasunich> (only in head)
[02:46:01] <Dallur> :( got disconnected right after jmkasunich> it would also drop at other times, like whenver the torch stops, or if you use feedrate override to slow down, or
[02:46:25] <cradek> logger_aj: bookmark
[02:46:25] <cradek> See http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-07-03#T02-46-25
[02:46:31] <cradek> Dallur: have a look at that url
[02:47:03] <Dallur> hypot, great
[02:50:26] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich Rugludallur: the component is called "hypot", and its part of the "blocks" module
[02:50:26] <jmkasunich> jmkasunich (only in head)
[02:50:35] <jmkasunich> thats all you missed
[02:56:17] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile: new sample config, torch height controller
[02:56:24] <Dallur> so just put the vel through a differentiator, hypot assumes that the inputs are 90° apart so true velocity is returned and if true velocity drops below % , looks like this is much easier than I thought :D
[02:56:56] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/ (10 files): new sample config, torch height controller
[02:57:52] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
[02:58:07] <cradek> hmm did I do that??
[02:58:09] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
[02:58:37] <cradek> uhh yep
[02:58:45] <cradek> I bet it started the build before the dir existed
[02:59:14] <Dallur> or just some of the files
[02:59:38] <cradek> anyone have anything to commit? :-P
[02:59:40] <fenn> it would be nice if it printed the first error instead of a url
[03:00:06] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[03:00:24] <cradek> ah, cool, they'll see the second commit and try again
[03:00:27] <jmkasunich> put the position thru a differentiator to get vel, send vel (x and y) to hypot to get true vel
[03:01:18] <Dallur> jmkasunich: yup :D
[03:06:18] <Dallur> I'm off to bed, good night everyone and see you tomorrow
[03:08:51] <cradek> goodnight, thanks for the sample config
[03:09:07] <CIA-8> 03compile-farm 07BDI-2.18 (2.2.18-rtl3.0) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[03:09:43] <cradek> yay
[03:37:32] <Mess> im in trouble...
[03:37:38] <Mess> i bought a house...
[03:37:38] <Mess> <dmessier> lol
[03:37:38] <Mess> <dmessier> get outta here
[03:37:38] <Mess> <Mess> what... i done it before... without authorization...
[03:37:38] <Mess> <dmessier> you were mildly authorized the last time need prevailed
[03:37:39] <Mess> <Mess> and this time.. its an investment property... RIGHT..
[03:37:41] <Mess> <dmessier> right
[03:37:43] <Mess> <dmessier> who the hell invests in pei? other than those who live there
[03:37:45] <Mess> <Mess> IDIOTS like ME
[03:37:47] <Mess> <dmessier> you better not have
[03:38:19] <Mess> my wife IS NOT IMPRESSED
[03:59:49] <Jymmm> what's so bad about PEI ?
[04:00:32] <Mess> she's NOT here..
[04:00:39] <Jymmm> lol
[04:00:47] <Mess> or seen the island
[04:01:31] <Mess> im an a_hole... i bought the last house without her see it
[04:01:49] <Mess> ... might do it again...
[04:02:41] <Mess> dmessier is in ontario.. Mess is in PEI..
[04:02:50] <Jymmm> Well, just make sure to buy a nice comfy couch too!
[04:03:09] <Mess> or a nice back shed..LOL
[04:03:54] <Jymmm> or both =)
[04:04:28] <Mess> yeah... the boyz need somewhere to sleep to...
[04:04:53] <Mess> we dont grow spuds....
[04:05:18] <Jymmm> and maybe a mistress too, cause you aint gonna get any, any more =)
[04:05:21] <Mess> but there's really nice dirt here... ; )
[04:05:46] <Mess> i already found 3 island cuties...
[04:06:45] <Mess> smilles for miles and built like they come off a spub farm... hard bodies...
[04:07:11] <Mess> but dont tell the wife,,,
[04:09:08] <Jymmm> Just make sure she doens't learn about IRC or weblogs
[04:10:43] <Mess> she uses irc too.. no weblogs though... song on its way to Jymmm
[04:12:04] <Mess> jymmm dcc??
[04:14:06] <Mess> last try... Jymmm
[04:19:40] <Jymmm> no dcc
[04:19:43] <Jymmm> firewall
[04:20:25] <Mess> i see.. understood... she;s still leavin me...LOL
[04:20:47] <Jymmm> Well, sign over everything to me before the divorce.
[04:21:18] <Jymmm> for $1
[04:21:27] <Jymmm> then you can give her half
[04:22:22] <Mess> good plan... my plan was to burn it alll.... and give her 1/2
[04:23:26] <Jymmm> Yeah, you just have to be fast about it.
[04:23:56] <Jymmm> Hey is phenolic really that bad to work with?
[04:24:23] <Jymmm> We have birds here whic are really sensative to respritory issues.
[04:24:25] <Mess> i had the chainsaw theory workin' for a few yrs... but thought against it
[04:25:03] <Mess> THEN DO NOT machine it.. it IS that bad...
[04:25:27] <Mess> what kinda birds??
[04:25:36] <Jymmm> cockatiels and parrots
[04:27:44] <Mess> DO NOT machine PHENOLICs around them.... my cockatiels got sick from extranious dust...
[04:28:47] <Jymmm> Is there another material than can handle heat?
[04:28:50] <Mess> fibreglass/phenolics/composites.... i woorked them alll and my birds went STUPID
[04:29:31] <Mess> are you doing transformer/switching apperatus??
[04:29:45] <Jymmm> no, templates
[04:29:55] <Jymmm> hot knife
[04:30:05] <Jymmm> err like stencils for hot knife
[04:30:29] <Mess> no good for Phen... we use it for hot wire hand templates...
[04:30:55] <Jymmm> and it does work for that?
[04:30:58] <Jymmm> doesn't
[04:31:12] <Mess> yes.. very well..
[04:32:04] <Mess> paste the phen tempd trace by hand with the hot wirelate .. an
[04:33:29] <Jymmm> well hells bells...
[04:33:45] <Mess> ring at 12:00
[04:34:22] <Jymmm> ok, so how are you creating the templates?
[04:34:46] <Mess> we did ours by hand on a band saw...
[04:35:06] <Jymmm> well that has got to create dust too
[04:35:59] <Mess> yeah... but 1/32" with a band saw is minimal
[04:36:48] <Jymmm> I would use a .0625 bit
[04:37:03] <Jymmm> .0625"
[04:37:23] <Jymmm> any smaller and I think the bit would break.
[04:37:33] <Jymmm> prematurly
[04:37:39] <Mess> then just lay the local vacuum cleaner to it..
[04:37:43] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: does it have to be non-metallic?
[04:38:09] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: safety wise, I think it SHOULD be. but I'm open to ideas/susggestions.
[04:38:17] <Mess> Must you use such a small tool???
[04:38:32] <Jymmm> Mess smaller tool, less swarf.
[04:38:42] <jmkasunich> well, any metal is going to solve the toxic dust problem
[04:38:57] <jmkasunich> how about 0.050" or so aluminum?
[04:39:14] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I think metal that thin is going to warp.
[04:39:28] <jmkasunich> 1/8" then
[04:40:08] <Jymmm> phenolic is $0.03 per sq in.
[04:40:20] <Mess> id rather cut 1/2 phenolic under the right circumstances...
[04:41:14] <Jymmm> I'd almost be willing to create some kind of filtration system, but I'm not sure what would be necessary.
[04:41:31] <jmkasunich> you have a shopvac?
[04:41:33] <Mess> fine paper system...
[04:41:50] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yeah, 4hp, 8gallon
[04:41:51] <Mess> in wet form.
[04:42:14] <jmkasunich> take the exhaust hose to the nearest window and send whatever gets past the vac outside
[04:42:15] <Jymmm> jmkasunich you reminded me of something, hang on...
[04:43:42] <Jymmm> Do you think 0.3 micron filteration is enough? http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Wet-Dry+Vacs&pid=00917831000&vertical=TOOL&subcat=Filters+%26+Accessories&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes
[04:44:17] <jmkasunich> why are you asking us? I don't know squat about birds
[04:44:39] <jmkasunich> I suspect at least some of the nasties from machining that stuff will be fumes, not dust, so no filter will stop it
[04:44:43] <jmkasunich> send it outside
[04:44:46] <Jymmm> lol, no I mena about phenolic dust. I have no clue what 0.3 micron is
[04:45:06] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Ah, ok. I thought it was mostly dust.
[04:45:18] <jmkasunich> 0.3 micron is the 0.3 millionths of a meter, 0.0003 mm
[04:45:57] <Jymmm> that's tiny!
[04:46:16] <jmkasunich> lungs don't like tiny stuff
[04:46:21] <Jymmm> Ok, so I dont need a vac as much as a blower.
[04:46:23] <Mess> flood it and filter it.. is THE BEST WAY... to save yourself.. so i'd imagine the same for birdies
[04:46:32] <jmkasunich> the big stuff falls out of the air anyway, its the tiny stuff that is the problem, it floats
[04:46:36] <Jymmm> Yeah, activated charcoal filteration
[04:46:55] <Mess> flood and drop it
[04:47:13] <jmkasunich> flood coolant?
[04:47:31] <Mess> yes... lots of it
[04:47:46] <jmkasunich> not an option. he has a router, not a mill. table is wood
[04:48:03] <Jymmm> This is what I have.... http://www.k2cnc.com/DuportalPro343Access/images/cnc3925c.jpg
[04:48:04] <Mess> and filter the crap.. its carcienogenic... (sp
[04:48:07] <Mess> )
[04:48:25] <Jymmm> Not Mine, but you get it.
[04:48:39] <jmkasunich> actually jymm... how big are the parts you are making?
[04:49:10] <Jymmm> 4" to 12" sqaure
[04:49:12] <Mess> lay the shop vac to her
[04:49:18] <jmkasunich> how thick?
[04:49:24] <Jymmm> 1/32"
[04:49:46] <jmkasunich> and you were worried about 0.040 aluminum not being strong enough?
[04:50:15] <Jymmm> not strong, bending and kinking.
[04:50:23] <jmkasunich> anyway, is there a way you could clamp/fixture your parts inside a pan? cake pan, cookie sheet with edges, etc?
[04:50:26] <Jymmm> like when you crush a soda can
[04:50:38] <jmkasunich> then fill with enough water to barely submerge the parts
[04:50:50] <Mess> vacuum table..
[04:50:57] <jmkasunich> underwater?
[04:51:03] <Mess> same shop vac.. fyi
[04:51:09] <Jymmm> Yeah, but I fear coolant would spalsh into the router motor (see pic)
[04:51:29] <Jymmm> it vents towards the bit.
[04:51:40] <Mess> funnel around motor/spindle
[04:51:47] <jmkasunich> yeah
[04:52:04] <Mess> pointing large end down
[04:52:10] <jmkasunich> even just a flat disk, with a hole barely big enough for the bit
[04:52:44] <Mess> but submerge the workpiece in 1/4 " h2o
[04:52:51] <jmkasunich> if the air is coming _out_ of the bottom of the router, you don't have to worry about fine mist getting sucked in
[04:53:08] <Mess> positive pressure
[04:53:19] <jmkasunich> right - no circulation needed, just put it in a waterproof pan, fill the pan 1/4" deep
[04:53:20] <Jymmm> intake is on the top onf the motor.
[04:53:43] <Mess> good plan Jmk
[04:54:28] <jmkasunich> time for bed (1am here)
[04:54:36] <Jymmm> g'night jmkasunich
[04:54:36] <jmkasunich> four more parts done... yay!
[04:54:44] <Jymmm> \o/
[04:54:52] <Mess> 2 am here where are you??
[04:54:59] <jmkasunich> cleveland OH usa
[04:55:28] <Mess> ok... 1 hr behind me im on est
[04:58:29] <Mess> any blues fans in the house??
[05:00:29] <Jymmm> some... ligth stuff.
[05:00:44] <Mess> care for dcc
[05:00:50] <Jymmm> firewall
[05:01:03] <Mess> ok
[05:01:13] <Mess> email??
[05:01:25] <Jymmm> I gotta find out what "activated" charcoal is
[05:02:02] <Mess> why?? to do what with???
[05:02:26] <Jymmm> to help neutralize the fumes
[05:03:22] <Mess> requires.. large canisters of char... and positive prussure thru it
[05:03:32] <Jymmm> I can get a blower and then take a 5 gallon bucket of and run the ducting thru it
[05:03:59] <Jymmm> fill the bucket with activated charcoal
[05:05:20] <Jymmm> make sense?
[05:05:20] <Mess> should work... blow alot.. in the bottom... filter up thur... and vent.... thru a scrubber
[05:06:31] <Jymmm> I'm thinking put a divider in the middle of the bucket from the top to 6" from the bottom of the bucket and fill it up with charcoal. then run two holes in the lid intake and exhaust.
[05:07:15] <Jymmm> If that wasn't enough, I could daisy chain a coupel of buckets like this.
[05:07:43] <Mess> sounds reasonable...
[05:09:01] <Mess> 2 am... gotta hit the pit soom...
[05:09:06] <Jymmm> But, is bbq charcoal == activated charcoal ?
[05:10:06] <Mess> no...
[05:11:04] <Mess> look for the syuff they put in larger aquaruim filters...THTS activated char
[05:13:52] <Mess> you can get it in 5 lb bags in some stores
[05:14:52] <Mess> ive had fish too... :)
[05:15:45] <Mess> killed many...
[05:16:08] <Mess> saved a few...
[05:19:17] <Jymmm> bags ?
[05:19:26] <Jymmm> I've seen filters, but never bags.
[05:19:49] <Jymmm> but that works. how expensive?
[05:20:23] <Mess> we buy it as a powder...
[05:20:59] <Jymmm> poweder? Hmmmm, I'd have to make a sack or something so it diesn't get blowen out of the bucket.
[05:21:01] <Mess> 10 $ / 2.5 lbs last time i bought it
[05:21:41] <Mess> if i recall
[05:21:46] <Jymmm> not too bad, if it does the job.
[05:22:26] <Mess> worked in the tank for 6 months or so...
[05:22:37] <Mess> wit alotof fish...
[05:22:58] <Jymmm> and it's a fine powder?
[05:23:43] <Mess> not so fine... .02"-.03" particulate...
[05:24:38] <Mess> you would still have to chew it... to flush youself out... but it would flush ya
[05:25:34] <Jymmm> I just dont want the blower to blow it out of the bucket.
[05:26:16] <Mess> put water in the bucket.. let it bubble thru it...
[05:26:43] <Mess> ALL dry stuff wil remain inside..
[05:27:56] <Jymmm> Yeah, I dont need to keep the bucket near the blower itself.
[05:28:16] <Jymmm> just no water in the blower =)
[05:28:45] <Mess> right..
[05:29:36] <Jymmm> when I say blower.... I mean suction before the blower, wher ethe bucket would be, not after.
[05:30:23] <Jymmm> router --> bucket --> blower ---> exhaust to the outside.
[05:30:27] <Mess> blow into the bucket keep it + pressure.. not - pressure...
[05:31:18] <Mess> no... router sucker... bucket.. to outside,,,
[05:31:42] <Jymmm> blowers are LOUD. I have to stash it in the attice (this is an apartment bldg)
[05:32:40] <Mess> apt bldg.. has an attic
[05:32:43] <Mess> ??
[05:33:03] <Jymmm> My gf is the manager =)
[05:33:26] <Mess> i see... so you got the pent house suite
[05:34:30] <Jymmm> this isn't a you can sleep in the attic sorta thing, this is a crawl space sorta thing.
[05:34:58] <Mess> yeah.. vent space only...
[05:34:59] <Jymmm> just bigger than most crawl space.
[05:35:58] <Jymmm> I can sneak in a power line and 4" duct thru the ceiling to a blower in the attic, then exhaust
[05:36:06] <Mess> so suck from up there,,, go router.. bucket... sucker... out...
[05:36:18] <Jymmm> that's what I said =)
[05:36:25] <Jymmm> router --> bucket --> blower ---> exhaust to the outside.
[05:37:12] <Mess> but the bucket has to be a closed unit to allow pressur to pass thru
[05:37:49] <Jymmm> it will be.
[05:38:04] <Jymmm> but like you said, it'll be neg pressaure
[05:38:51] <Mess> it'll work... many friends have vented smellier stuff and gotten away with it
[05:39:48] <Mess> you need min 6" of air space over the char... to keep water from spitting out
[05:42:26] <Jymmm> most 5 gal buckets are what 18" at least ?
[05:42:41] <Mess> 600 plants STINK... if your not tending to 'em...
[05:43:00] <Mess> or 24"
[05:43:19] <Jymmm> if I divide the bucket in half up to 6" from the bottom of the bucket. Then fill up with 8" of water, I think I should be ok.
[05:45:28] <Mess> fill the bucket with char...then top with water... send the intake from the router in to about 2" from bottom.... suck from the top of the bucket
[05:46:18] <Mess> you should get bubbles... if you do its working....
[05:47:22] <alex_jon1> alex_jon1 is now known as alex_joni
[05:48:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, just no way of SEEING the bubbles, just hearing them hopefully =)
[05:48:47] <Mess> you will...
[05:49:05] <Mess> or the bucket will IMPLODE,,,
[05:49:17] <Jymmm> lol
[05:49:34] <Mess> its a 50/50 chance..
[05:50:01] <Mess> NOT..
[05:50:26] <Mess> i dislike catstrophic failures
[05:51:57] <Mess> i try to design them out .. in the planning stages...
[05:52:24] <Jymmm> maybe I'll use my shop vac instead of a blower. a blower right now is a tad costly.
[05:52:44] <Jymmm> still the same bucket setup though.
[05:54:01] <Mess> same sheite..... im still burping my lobster club ssamdwich.... i love this place..LOL
[05:54:19] <Jymmm> not as much volume as a blower, but much easier to implement.
[05:54:29] <alex_joni> go to bed guys ;)
[05:54:37] <Jymmm> it's only 2300 here
[05:54:38] <Mess> noisy though
[05:54:42] <alex_joni> Mess: missed that dcc
[05:54:54] <alex_joni> Jymmm: really?
[05:54:59] <Mess> care for a tune from the coast??
[05:55:05] <alex_joni> Mess: why not..
[05:55:15] <alex_joni> Mess: but can you email it?
[05:55:37] <Jymmm> Mess: Yeah, but I'll have to deal with ti for now.
[05:55:37] <Mess> sure..
[05:55:39] <alex_joni> DCC can't connect to 24.222.59.69 port 1024
[05:55:46] <alex_joni> so email would be better
[05:55:51] <alex_joni> Mess: still have my addy?
[05:55:58] <Mess> no
[05:56:04] <alex_joni> alex.joni AT robcon.ro
[05:57:45] <Mess> on its way
[05:58:03] <Mess> no subject.. sorry
[05:59:17] <Mess> this island is an amayanazing place...
[05:59:43] <Mess> its like everyones related...;)
[05:59:54] <Jymmm> incest is the best, forget the rest!
[06:00:27] <Mess> why spoil a perfect blood line.. right..
[06:00:58] <Jymmm> lol... yep!
[06:01:16] <Mess> but friendly to the MAX.... way cool
[06:01:27] <Jymmm> HOW friendly?
[06:01:37] <Mess> VERY...
[06:01:59] <Mess> and many have LARGE hooters
[06:02:08] <Jymmm> there we go!
[06:02:59] <Mess> the other 1/3 ar 250 lbs +
[06:06:33] <Mess> all the cuties are headed OFF island... To TO
[06:06:56] <Mess> so i offered a place to stay when they get there
[06:07:02] <Mess> ;)
[06:07:49] <Mess> understand i shared a house with my current wife and an ex gf for the better part of 2 yrs...
[06:08:13] <Mess> she wasnt my wife quite then.. yet...
[06:08:20] <Jymmm> lol
[06:08:22] <Mess> or so...
[06:08:43] <Mess> made for some interesting table talk...LOL
[06:08:54] <Jymmm> s/table/bed/
[06:09:16] <Mess> i tried them all.. with all of them...LOL
[06:11:52] <Mess> they are now VERY good friends... go figure..
[06:12:04] <Jymmm> you turned them bi?
[06:12:08] <Mess> and i get ignored.. ; (
[06:12:37] <Mess> seems so.... but they both deny it... ive mentioned it..LOL
[06:12:50] <Jymmm> hidden camera time!!!
[06:13:49] <Mess> i cant see it from either of them... they enjoy getting F'd too much for that..
[06:14:22] <Jymmm> lol, maybe friends with benefits
[06:14:23] <Mess> and i'd hear them anyway.. niether is quiet...
[06:14:29] <Jymmm> rotf
[06:15:04] <Jymmm> http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&pid=00921335000&cat=Wet-Dry+Vacs&subcat=Dust+Collection+Systems+%26+Attachments&vertical=TOOL&ihtoken=1
[06:15:37] <Jymmm> 500cfm, but no db rating
[06:17:03] <Mess> descent lookin machine..
[06:19:40] <Jymmm> I looked at grizzly, just as expensive. I like buyng from sears becasue they're open on sunday
[06:20:00] <Jymmm> so even if something screws up you can still get it replaced =)
[06:20:11] <Jymmm> on the weekends.
[06:20:20] <Mess> good warrentee too
[06:21:56] <Mess> i bought SNAP-ON tools... 20 yrs ago bcz of warantee now sears is as good.. and closer..
[06:24:54] <Mess> well 3:30 am on THis island is tim for naps..
[06:25:06] <Mess> g'nite all... ;
[06:25:08] <Mess> )
[06:37:13] <Jymmm> G'night Mess
[07:24:34] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmm
[07:42:38] <Jymmmm> damn... one pound of carbon (a quart container) provides a surface area equivalent to six football fields.
[09:02:40] <chinamill> Hello everyone
[09:03:20] <chinamill> I got a new linux based adsl modem, it will be intresting to find out how often I need to reboot it...
[09:03:46] <chinamill> newer I hope
[09:03:58] <chinamill> never :)
[09:12:18] <Jymmmm> Jymmmm is now known as Jymmm
[11:15:40] <Rugludallur> Did you guys know that there is a guy selling live cds with emc on Ebay ?
[11:15:52] <Rugludallur> http://cgi.ebay.com/Linux-CNC-Computer-Numeric-Control-EMC2-Ubuntu-BOOTCD_W0QQitemZ130003542269QQihZ003QQcategoryZ3771QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[11:19:06] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[11:51:26] <jepler> good morning.
[12:27:25] <micges> hello
[12:28:34] <micges> I founded very serious problem in emc
[12:29:00] <micges> memory error with file with 30000 lines of g code
[12:29:17] <micges> please help...
[12:49:10] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: get rid of the extra [0] on current_tool; None indicates no tool. fix display of lathe-type tools.
[12:53:17] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: another attempt to fix the 'feed override at 0scripts/axis.py on start' bug
[12:59:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: do more checking inside pause/unpause/step, fixes bug with keyboard 'resume' while not paused, and other bugs
[13:02:29] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/axisversion.h: remove debugging code
[13:09:26] <cradek> jepler: are you taking the day off to hack on axis?
[13:11:11] <jepler> cradek: I'm taking the day off
[13:11:20] <jepler> I don't know how much longer I'm going to work on axis
[13:59:14] <Bo^Dick> question: a "104" capacitor, is it 0.1µF or 0.01µF?
[13:59:44] <jmkasunich> 10 with 4 more zeros, in pF
[13:59:55] <jmkasunich> so 100000 pf = 0.1uF
[14:00:05] <Bo^Dick> thanks buddy
[14:00:21] <jmkasunich> likewise 223 would be 22 with 3 zeros = 22000pf = 0.022uF, etc
[14:06:35] <Bo^Dick> is this fine for a final design or should i complete it with any choking coils or input filters or whatever? http://www.carmi.se/misterstarshine/img/10.gif
[14:07:04] <Bo^Dick> i'm aware of the heatsinks
[14:08:45] <Bo^Dick> commersial designs use to have tons of stuff such as a termistor to limit the inrush current and so on. do i need to add all those stuff?
[14:40:15] <chinamill> Dallur: any progress on your torch height controller?
[14:40:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/extensions/minigl.c: file loading speedups: implement draw_lines in C. calculate extents after all lines are known. update the progress bar a little less frequently
[14:40:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/rs274/glcanon.py: file loading speedups: implement draw_lines in C. calculate extents after all lines are known. update the progress bar a little less frequently
[14:40:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: file loading speedups: implement draw_lines in C. calculate extents after all lines are known. update the progress bar a little less frequently
[14:53:51] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/.cvsignore: ignores
[15:00:37] <asdf23r> asdf23r is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[15:11:54] <Rugludallur> Rugludallur is now known as Dallur
[15:43:55] <chinamill> Dallur: ... and you implemented all THC functions without a custom HAL module?
[15:51:51] <chinamill> Rugludallur: ... and you implemented all THC functions without a custom HAL module?
[15:53:29] <Rugludallur> yes
[15:54:22] <Rugludallur> hmm can anyone think of a way to store a max/min value of a pin within the HAL ?
[15:59:03] <SWPadnos> you can probably rig up several comp blocks with mux blocks, and make something that updates the mux only when the input is above (or below) the stored value
[15:59:25] <chinamill> there is a HAL component that can be used to store both float and bin, but I do not remember it's name
[15:59:48] <Rugludallur> SWPadnos: I think that might work, i will give it a try
[15:59:55] <SWPadnos> there's a "const" blopck, that effectively converts a parameter to a pin - is that what you're thinking of
[15:59:59] <chinamill> I guess the tricky part would be to find the max/min
[16:00:18] <Rugludallur> chinamill:Using the mux w. comp it should be no problem
[16:00:45] <SWPadnos> Rugludallur, remember that the blocks update in whatever order you specify in the thread, and it is possible (I think) to run a single function more than once in a thread
[16:01:09] <Rugludallur> SwPadnos: thats good to know
[16:01:43] <Rugludallur> SwPadnos: although I see a use for min/max blocks in the future
[16:01:53] <SWPadnos> yes
[16:02:11] <Rugludallur> I will add a feature request in SourceForge just in case :D
[16:02:29] <SWPadnos> oh great - another feature request ;)
[16:02:38] <Rugludallur> SWPadnos: feel free to ignore it
[16:02:44] <SWPadnos> I will
[16:02:49] <SWPadnos> oops - I mean Of course not!
[16:02:55] <Rugludallur> :D
[16:07:30] <chinamill> Rugludallur: the hal component supply can store both a float and a bin
[16:08:26] <Rugludallur> ok, I just need to set it up to only store max
[16:10:12] <fenn_> fenn_ is now known as fenn
[16:18:55] <Rugludallur> Rugludallur is now known as Dallur
[16:30:43] <jmkasunich> Dallur: it is possible to do a max (or min) with existing components (although a dedicated one is still a good idea
[16:31:05] <Dallur> jmkasunich: yup SwPadnos pointed me in the right direction, using a mux with comp
[16:31:22] <jmkasunich> and feeding the mux output back to its other input?
[16:31:29] <Dallur> jmkasunich: yes
[16:31:32] <jmkasunich> cool
[16:32:13] <Dallur> jmkasunich: I think alot of people would be supprised by how flexible hal is
[16:33:12] <jmkasunich> yeah ;-)
[16:34:17] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/nc_files/useful-subroutines.ngc: a place to collect reusable bits of gcode in the form of subroutines
[16:35:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/sim/sim.tbl: we need some tools
[16:38:28] <jmkasunich> always need more tools
[16:38:50] <cradek> and some that are not 0-diameter would be nice, right?
[16:38:58] <Jymmm> lol
[16:44:44] <Dallur> hmm do you guys know of any way to multiply pins with the values of other pins? I can use scale or even sum to multiply pin with parameter but I want a dynamic value if that is possible
[16:45:29] <SWPadnos> I guess that should go into the hypothetical "hal_math" module
[16:47:17] <Dallur> Im thinking that is a "no" :D
[16:50:16] <SWPadnos> I'd say it's impossible at the moment
[16:51:46] <SWPadnos> we had also duscussed the idea f a "formula" block, but there were issues with gettiung the formula into the kernel module
[16:52:55] <Dallur> SWPadnos: My solution will probably be to use a fixed value for my threshold, and a TBD clause :D
[16:53:54] <SWPadnos> yep
[16:54:06] <JymmmEMC> ubuntu doesn't have a clipboard history by default does it?
[17:45:04] <Dallur> sheeesssh this corner height lock thing is becoming a monster already :D
[17:46:58] <Dallur> I have been thinking about splitting up each of the components of the TCH into seperate .hal files, is there any standard practice regarding what should be in the same hal and what should be split up ?
[17:49:39] <jmkasunich> its totally up to you
[17:50:15] <jmkasunich> I've been leaning toward single files lately, but just like programs, when it get to big to manage as a single file, time to split it
[17:50:44] <Dallur> jmkasunich: yup, Im passing 500 lines now and I think that is getting a bit much for one file
[17:51:21] <jmkasunich> the ini file supports multiple HAL files... so just go right ahead ;-)
[17:51:28] <SWPadnos> you know, it would be possible to add a reload command to halcmd
[17:51:35] <jmkasunich> reload?
[17:51:58] <SWPadnos> for RT modules. list everything connected to a module, unload it, load with new parameters, reconnect everything
[17:52:12] <SWPadnos> for things like blocks, it would be very nice
[17:52:17] <jmkasunich> possible but not a smop
[17:52:29] <SWPadnos> in fact, it's possible as a shell script, using halcmd as is
[17:52:49] <jmkasunich> ok, show me...
[17:53:24] <jmkasunich> (I thought it would be more complex than that....)
[17:53:31] <SWPadnos> one question: are load-time parameters held in the HAL shared memory?
[17:53:41] <jmkasunich> yes
[17:53:48] <SWPadnos> ok, then it's fairly SMOP-ish
[17:53:58] <jmkasunich> (so that save can generate the proper loadrt commands
[17:54:04] <SWPadnos> right
[17:54:20] <SWPadnos> take an example of blocks
[17:54:27] <jmkasunich> the real solution is to make loading a module into kernel space, and instantiating a block from that module two different operations
[17:54:35] <SWPadnos> yes, that is the correct solution ;)
[17:54:37] <jmkasunich> which is a key goal of the (someday) refactor
[17:54:40] <SWPadnos> yep
[17:55:07] <jmkasunich> thats why I don't want to invest too much time into a workaround (and get people accustomed to the workaround)
[17:55:16] <SWPadnos> fair enough
[17:56:35] <SWPadnos> now this is fairly amazing: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148140
[17:57:12] <jmkasunich> the price you mean?
[17:57:21] <Dallur> * Dallur wants a 16 disk raid array with those
[17:57:32] <SWPadnos> only $1680 ;)
[17:57:37] <SWPadnos> plus the machine and controller :)
[17:57:57] <Dallur> but you would get at least 4.5 TB of usable space with RAID 5
[17:58:06] <SWPadnos> what you really want is a 16-drive array of these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822148134
[17:58:29] <jmkasunich> zoiks
[17:58:29] <Dallur> yup :D
[17:58:33] <SWPadnos> heh
[17:58:42] <Jymmm> wait a few months, it'll be 1TB
[17:58:44] <Dallur> 12TB we have a winner
[17:59:21] <jmkasunich> ok, should the multiplier block be called mult2 (like sum2) or just mult?
[17:59:23] <Dallur> hmm thats more than the library of congress
[17:59:33] <SWPadnos> I'd say mult2
[17:59:47] <SWPadnos> though that could be confused with a block that doubles its input ;)
[18:00:06] <jmkasunich> there won't be such a block
[18:00:09] <SWPadnos> heh
[18:00:16] <jmkasunich> since the scale block can do that for an arbitrary gain
[18:00:19] <SWPadnos> sum2 can do that as well, of course
[18:00:24] <jmkasunich> mult2 it is
[18:00:42] <SWPadnos> I was also thinking that the hypot should just be extended to have 3 inputs
[18:01:09] <Dallur> hypot2 and hypot3
[18:01:12] <SWPadnos> if they default to 0, there's no effect, and it simplifies 3-axis vector velocity
[18:01:48] <jmkasunich> how bout just hypot, but it has three inputs
[18:01:54] <SWPadnos> that was my thought
[18:02:00] <jmkasunich> if you only want 2, don't connect the third one
[18:02:03] <SWPadnos> right
[18:02:14] <Dallur> :D
[18:02:23] <jmkasunich> will do
[18:05:43] <Dallur> Is there any particular reason why emc does not have a donation button available from the sourceforge website ?
[18:06:58] <jepler> Dallur: two reasons I can think of -- we'd have to decide who handled the money, and we'd have to have a use for the money.
[18:07:18] <jmkasunich> right
[18:07:52] <jmkasunich> fsck, classicladder_gtk.c is still fscked up
[18:07:58] <jmkasunich> grrrr
[18:08:00] <SWPadnos> plus, everything's easy until there's money involved - just ask any divorce lawyer ;)
[18:08:26] <jepler> luckily we are able to rely on donated webserver & cvs server
[18:08:42] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:08:52] <Dallur> ok, I just thought because although I work in IT my programming skills are lacking to say the least so I figured this is one way to donate
[18:10:32] <jmkasunich> oops, I think classicladder_gtk.c is fine, jepler's fixes conflicted with my attempted fixes when I updated
[18:11:07] <jmkasunich> yeah, warnings but no errors
[18:13:46] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: added two input multiplier block
[18:14:30] <SWPadnos> can you toss in a min/max block as well?
[18:14:38] <jmkasunich> working on that now
[18:14:42] <SWPadnos> ok ;)
[18:14:52] <jmkasunich> (I'm doing each as a separate commit, just because I can)
[18:14:52] <SWPadnos> I'd do it, but I have no emc dev box right now
[18:14:59] <jmkasunich> and so Dallur can try them out asap
[18:14:59] <SWPadnos> hey - that may be a good idea :)
[18:17:02] <jmkasunich> the minmax block is gonna have one input, two outputs (min and max) and a reset pin (bit)
[18:17:14] <jmkasunich> when reset is true, min and max both equal in
[18:17:30] <SWPadnos> tracking vs. minmax
[18:17:46] <jmkasunich> yeah
[18:31:44] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: added minmax (peak detector) block
[18:34:32] <jmkasunich> thats a really weird implementation of hypot...
[18:35:11] <jmkasunich> jepler: you around?
[18:36:39] <jmkasunich> guess not
[18:36:45] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich rewrites hypot
[18:37:02] <SWPadnos> heh - those should probably be floats as well (though that may be the reason for the weird algorithm)
[18:38:38] <SWPadnos> hmmm - it's also possible that the math chip sqrt execution time is dependent on the magnitude of the argument, and this algorithm keeps the sqrt arg below 2
[18:39:06] <jmkasunich> at the expense of a crapload of branches
[18:39:10] <SWPadnos> yes
[18:39:13] <jmkasunich> branches suck
[18:40:02] <jmkasunich> the fabs() calls, even if inline, also involve conditional branches
[18:40:14] <SWPadnos> you can replace those (mostly) with if (a<b) swap(a,b) like stuff
[18:40:29] <jmkasunich> I just recoded it with straightforward code
[18:40:32] <SWPadnos> no, fabs is a function of the math chip (though the implementation may be an if)
[18:41:01] <jmkasunich> *(hypot->out) = sqrt(a*a + b*b + c*c);
[18:41:11] <SWPadnos> well, that is more readable :)
[18:41:13] <jmkasunich> a,b,c are doubles
[18:41:29] <jmkasunich> so plenty of range given that the original values are floats
[18:42:36] <jmkasunich> although the average execution time (over many calls with different value args) for the fancy one may be better, I bet the max time for this one is better
[18:42:40] <jmkasunich> for RT, max is what counts
[18:43:13] <SWPadnos> actually, range may have been the reason - jeff's algorithm always reduced the magnitude of the arguments
[18:43:38] <SWPadnos> except b*b, which is guaranteed to be <1
[18:43:52] <SWPadnos> (or a*a in the other ranch
[18:43:54] <SWPadnos> branch)
[18:44:05] <jmkasunich> all very important if the input values were themselves doubles, to avoid overflow
[18:44:12] <SWPadnos> yep
[18:44:15] <jmkasunich> I bet he pulled that from a math lib somewhere
[18:44:33] <jmkasunich> which is optimised for average speed, and to handle the range issues
[18:44:35] <SWPadnos> though you shouldn't be talking about branches, if you scroll down to the mux4 ;)
[18:45:30] <jmkasunich> I suppose I could have packed the bits into an int and treated the inputs as an array...
[18:45:51] <SWPadnos> the pin addresses could be an array, I think
[18:46:12] <jmkasunich> yeah, instead of in0 thru in3, it would be in[0], etc
[18:46:13] <SWPadnos> but anyway - I'm just easing
[18:46:17] <SWPadnos> right
[18:46:24] <SWPadnos> teasing, not easing
[18:46:29] <jmkasunich> good, cause I have no intention of changing it
[18:46:32] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[18:46:42] <SWPadnos> :)
[18:48:36] <jmkasunich> heh, jepler didn't change some of the comments when he copy/pasted the code for hypot from mux2
[18:49:57] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: expanded hypot block from 2 inputs to three, if you don't need all three just don't connect them (existing configs should work fine with no changes)
[18:50:14] <jmkasunich> of course none of these new blocks are tested yet
[18:50:23] <jmkasunich> Dallur will do that for me, right?
[18:50:28] <SWPadnos> but they compile, right? :)
[18:50:33] <jmkasunich> of course
[18:50:40] <Dallur> jmkasunich: of course I will :D
[18:50:54] <jmkasunich> any other blocks while I'm in the groove?
[18:51:36] <jmkasunich> absolute value?
[18:52:12] <SWPadnos> you can get that with hypot
[18:52:17] <jmkasunich> yeah
[18:52:30] <Dallur> not to the best of my knowledge, at least nothing I have need for at the moment.. but if we just go into math functions we could do division, average ..
[18:52:31] <jmkasunich> not the fastest abs() in the world, but...
[18:52:38] <SWPadnos> heh - or comp + mult + mux :)
[18:52:47] <jmkasunich> retch
[18:52:49] <SWPadnos> yeah
[18:53:18] <jmkasunich> actually, thats exactly what I'm asking... are there common functions that are a pain to build using the existing primitives?
[18:53:57] <jmkasunich> track/hold can be built with a mux, making a block for it would just save a single pin
[18:54:12] <SWPadnos> I wonder if some block that just does several unary functions and outputs all of them:
[18:54:21] <SWPadnos> unary, negate, sqrt, square
[18:54:36] <SWPadnos> unary = fabs - oops
[18:54:50] <JymmmEMC> you adding math functions?
[18:54:51] <jmkasunich> sqrt is a problem
[18:55:07] <SWPadnos> then one for 2 inputs as well: add, subtract, mult, div, a ^ b
[18:55:14] <SWPadnos> too slow?
[18:55:28] <jmkasunich> SWP: I'd rather have specific blocks
[18:55:35] <jmkasunich> and some of the ones you list have issues
[18:55:51] <jmkasunich> sqrt(negative), div(byzero)
[18:55:59] <JymmmEMC> AND OR NOT XOR shift
[18:56:04] <SWPadnos> sure, but those can be checked
[18:56:21] <SWPadnos> JymmmEMC, those are logic ops, not math ops (but still useful)
[18:56:26] <SWPadnos> and is there already
[18:56:37] <JymmmEMC> MODULUS ?
[18:56:38] <SWPadnos> AND, that is, not "and they're there already"
[18:56:41] <SWPadnos> mod is there
[18:56:49] <jmkasunich> JymmmEMC: any real logic should be done in classicladder IMO
[18:57:22] <jmkasunich> right now I'm focusing on analog functions
[18:57:33] <JymmmEMC> ah
[18:57:41] <jmkasunich> polynomials?
[18:57:52] <jmkasunich> poly2, poly3, poly4, etc?
[18:57:54] <A-L-P-H-A> speak to me people. :)
[18:57:59] <jmkasunich> pins: in, out
[18:58:08] <A-L-P-H-A> pins... how about out, in?
[18:58:09] <jmkasunich> params: a, b, c
[18:58:29] <jmkasunich> :-P
[18:58:48] <jmkasunich> talking about a possible polynomial function for HAL
[18:58:59] <jmkasunich> nobody seems interested...
[18:59:20] <SWPadnos> it's interesting, but I'm not sure I've seen a need for it yet
[18:59:31] <jmkasunich> wait till needed sounds like a plan
[18:59:52] <jmkasunich> there's that reverse deadband somebody asked about
[18:59:59] <SWPadnos> plus, the more you add to blocks, the greater the pressure to split it into separate files for math and binary functions ;)
[19:00:05] <SWPadnos> it's pretty big already
[19:00:09] <jmkasunich> but that is really a special case of a lookup table
[19:00:18] <jmkasunich> 2406 lines ;-)
[19:00:37] <Dallur> one thing I always thought would be usefull is a cast from one type to another but that leads to a whole new set of problems plus you can already kinda do it with mux and comp
[19:01:15] <jmkasunich> there are also components to take a group of bits and make an int out of them
[19:02:44] <JymmmEMC> cos sin tan
[19:03:10] <jmkasunich> tan gets ugly because it has infinity at certain points
[19:03:22] <jmkasunich> cos and sin might be usefull
[19:03:57] <jmkasunich> polar to rectangular conversion might be handy someday too
[19:04:38] <jmkasunich> heh, remember the guy that wanted axis at 45 degrees?
[19:05:06] <jmkasunich> take the outputs from emc thru a rectantular to polar conversion, then sum 45 degrees to the angle part, then back thru polar to rectangular
[19:05:25] <jmkasunich> except I'm sure there is some point where the math would explode
[19:05:32] <jmkasunich> and homing issues, and a lot more
[19:05:45] <jmkasunich> faking kinematics in HAL is _not_ a good idea
[19:06:31] <Dallur> jmkasunich: if you ever feel like some "easy reading" I recommend a book called "Divine Proportions"
[19:06:52] <jmkasunich> I don't have time to read lately
[19:07:04] <jmkasunich> let me know how those blocks work...
[19:07:09] <jmkasunich> I'm off to HGR for a while
[19:07:27] <SWPadnos> have fun
[19:07:34] <Dallur> jmkasunich: will do and thank you
[19:08:54] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: fix typo in comment
[19:19:31] <jepler> jmkasunich: sorry, I copied a too-clever implementation of hypot() from somewhere. The motivation was to make sure you didn't exceed the maximum representable number when calculating a*a or somesuch
[19:20:18] <Mess> howdy all..
[19:20:21] <jepler> since the temporaries are doubles and the args are floats there's really no danger of that
[19:22:18] <Jymmm> hey Mess
[19:22:24] <Jymmm> Mess: Got Lobster?
[19:23:31] <Mess> im almost fed up of it...
[19:23:43] <Jymmm> key word ebing ALMOST =)
[19:24:02] <Mess> had a lobster club for lunch... nice taste
[19:24:37] <Mess> they make lobster everything here...
[19:55:43] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/rs274ngc_pre.cc: make interp::doLog do even less when not logging; this actually accounted for 25% of the time it took to parse a gcode file
[19:57:01] <cradek> wow
[19:57:41] <jepler> yeah---I was surprised, but it's what the profiler tells me
[19:57:55] <cradek> btw I noticed leftover profiler droppings from axis
[19:58:37] <jepler> oops -- did I check that in?
[19:58:51] <cradek> I think so
[20:00:11] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10axis/scripts/axis.py: and files load even faster when it's not always done under the profiler!
[20:00:21] <cradek> heh
[20:01:14] <SWPadnos> strange that LOG_FILE is a compile-time define - I thought you could turn that on and off from the command line (or ini or something)
[20:07:07] <jepler> } else if ((c != '.') && ((c < 48) || (c > 57)))
[20:07:07] <jepler> ERM(NCE_BAD_NUMBER_FORMAT);
[20:07:15] <jepler> apparently this checks for digits or a decimal point
[20:07:33] <SWPadnos> yucky
[20:08:14] <SWPadnos> strange that they'd remember apostrophes for '.' and forget for '0' and '9'
[20:13:04] <jepler> and worse than that, it hurts portability to EBCDIC machines
[20:13:30] <SWPadnos> damn. my Linux/EBCDID quad-core opteron won't work
[20:13:36] <SWPadnos> EBCDIC
[20:14:06] <SWPadnos> and all the Fortransit code won't be compatible any more
[20:19:55] <jepler> offs
[20:20:17] <jepler> strtod() "supports" the hex notation 0x... for floating-point numbers
[20:20:41] <SWPadnos> like 0xfe.09 ?
[20:20:43] <jepler> when I try to change the use of sscanf() to strtod() it misparses lines like 'g0x12.50' as meaning 'g18.3125'
[20:20:54] <SWPadnos> argh
[20:21:37] <SWPadnos> are you positive that's what's happening?
[20:21:39] <jepler> yes
[20:21:48] <SWPadnos> something like 0xFe09 is ambiguous
[20:21:49] <jepler> the manpage makes it fairly clear, and 0x12 == 18
[20:22:08] <jepler> right, that's why "p" and "P" are used for the exponent
[20:22:15] <SWPadnos> ah - how clever
[20:22:16] <jepler> 0xfp09
[20:29:01] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_read.cc:
[20:29:01] <CIA-8> changing sscanf() to strtod() gains 15% while interpreting file.
[20:29:01] <CIA-8> Because strtod() interprets hex floating point values, 'g0x12.50'
[20:29:01] <CIA-8> would mean the same as 'g18.3125', so put a NUL just after the number
[20:29:01] <CIA-8> and then put back the old character before returning.
[20:30:26] <jepler> with these changes, "heart" (large demo program from emc1) now loads in 8 seconds on my laptop
[20:30:42] <SWPadnos> compared to?
[20:30:58] <JymmmEMC> I can only get 1024x768, but in a previous install I was able to get 1280x1024. Any suggestions? (breezy)
[20:31:00] <jepler> "longer"
[20:31:08] <SWPadnos> heh - great work!
[20:31:20] <SWPadnos> Jymmm - what video card?
[20:31:36] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, : onboard... intel ca810e mobo
[20:32:15] <SWPadnos> is 1280x1024 listed in the modes for your monitor (in xorg.conf)?
[20:32:23] <JymmmEMC> looking...
[20:33:29] <SWPadnos> I wonder if that's why they never used 'E' in the g-code spec
[20:34:27] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: I put the rpms zwisk made on linuxcnc.org, hope that's ok
[20:34:33] <SWPadnos> sure
[20:34:33] <alex_joni> hi all btw
[20:34:40] <alex_joni> ~200MB or so
[20:34:46] <Dallur> hey
[20:34:47] <SWPadnos> I still have the BDI discs on cncgear
[20:34:48] <Dallur> fontbase = int(o.tk.call(o._w, "loadbitmapfont", coordinate_font))
[20:34:53] <Dallur> oops err
[20:35:05] <alex_joni> * alex_joni hates when he has to fall back to expensive backups
[20:35:07] <SWPadnos> there's even a copy of one of the ubuntu isos as well
[20:35:16] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, it's showing 'generic monitor' not mine.
[20:35:23] <SWPadnos> I'd fix that ;)
[20:35:23] <alex_joni> I'm on GPRS right now :(
[20:35:37] <SWPadnos> good thing we type slowly ;)
[20:35:55] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: yeah, but 2$/MB is insane
[20:36:04] <SWPadnos> y
[20:36:11] <SWPadnos> (we'll abbreviate from now on)
[20:36:17] <SWPadnos> ? r u?
[20:36:24] <alex_joni> f ty
[20:36:27] <SWPadnos> np
[20:37:00] <alex_joni> alex_joni is now known as _aj
[20:37:14] <_aj> even shorter
[20:37:19] <SWPadnos> SWPadnos is now known as __
[20:37:27] <__> k
[20:37:41] <_aj> lol..
[20:37:46] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, NE sug on chngng Z crt ?
[20:37:52] <Dallur> Dallur is now known as Z
[20:37:55] <__> __ is now known as SWPadnos
[20:37:59] <_aj> _aj is now known as alex_joni
[20:38:08] <alex_joni> ok guys.. enjoy..
[20:38:17] <alex_joni> I'm heading for bed .. long day today
[20:38:19] <Z> shrt engh 4 u $2/MB
[20:38:25] <Z> Z is now known as Dallur
[20:38:28] <SWPadnos> oops
[20:38:30] <SWPadnos> had to change, __ might have come back and ghosted me ;)
[20:38:41] <alex_joni> seen it in dev too :)
[20:38:50] <SWPadnos> Jymmm - nope. you could try dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[20:38:55] <alex_joni> bbl
[20:38:59] <JymmmEMC> k
[20:39:00] <SWPadnos> cya
[21:01:22] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos, thanks, that did it.
[21:03:30] <SWPadnos> great
[21:04:20] <JymmmEMC> 1024 just kills me!
[21:04:47] <JymmmEMC> at least 1280 is tolerable.
[21:05:15] <SWPadnos> heh - and much better on 1280x1024 native LCDs
[21:06:09] <JymmmEMC> I'm on a 21" Sony CRT and usually run 1920x1440. I'd run larger but this video card doesn't support it. (it's ancient)
[21:06:23] <JymmmEMC> (I'm on a KVM switch)0
[21:07:04] <JymmmEMC> Even my laptop supports 1440x1050
[21:07:18] <SWPadnos> my laptop screen is 1400x1050
[21:07:27] <SWPadnos> it's too old to be 1920x1200
[21:07:49] <JymmmEMC> 1920 on a 15" is WAY TOO SMALL
[21:08:01] <SWPadnos> I'd get a 17" or 19" laptop with that
[21:08:10] <SWPadnos> though I do havea 22" 3840x2400 LCD
[21:08:13] <jepler> I use 1920x1200 on a 15" laptop .. it's fine except for the goddamned intarweb
[21:08:34] <SWPadnos> yeah - if only SVG and scalable fonts would take over
[21:10:26] <JymmmEMC> Mess, you awake over there, or did you turn into a lobster yet?
[21:12:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/ (4 files): put custom M codes all in M-word modal group 11 instead of in 100 separate groups.
[21:28:55] <A-L-P-H-A> that's super high.
[21:29:08] <A-L-P-H-A> my three 17" LCDs are only... uhmmm.
[21:29:16] <A-L-P-H-A> 1280x1024
[21:29:42] <A-L-P-H-A> my laptops higher... don't remember what it is though.
[21:30:19] <anonimasu> 1900x1200
[21:30:22] <anonimasu> perhaps?
[21:30:29] <A-L-P-H-A> 1400x1050
[21:30:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I think
[21:30:42] <Rugludallur> Any of you guys running Axis via remote X11 ?
[21:30:52] <A-L-P-H-A> why not ask the authors...
[21:31:03] <cradek> I do all the time
[21:31:04] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek and jepler (I think it's those two)
[21:31:16] <anonimasu> Rugludallur: there should be nothing keeping you
[21:31:49] <Rugludallur> I was testing it with Xming to a windows box and axis seems to be the only ui that won't run
[21:32:08] <cradek> there's probably no GL in your windows xserver
[21:33:04] <cradek> it's only relatively recently (5 yrs) that xservers have GL built in
[21:33:10] <cradek> you can tell by using xpdyinfo
[21:33:28] <cradek> % xdpyinfo|grep GL
[21:33:28] <cradek> GLX
[21:33:29] <cradek> NV-GLX
[21:35:28] <cradek> have to run, goodnight
[21:39:30] <A-L-P-H-A> so glad they stick around to obtain the help they need.
[21:39:44] <SWPadnos> Rugludallur, I have run AXIS on CygWin-X quite successfully
[21:39:57] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos? you haven't took the full dive?
[21:40:09] <SWPadnos> for what?
[21:41:14] <A-L-P-H-A> linui
[21:41:16] <A-L-P-H-A> linux
[21:41:25] <A-L-P-H-A> freak'n misquito bite itches so bad
[21:41:30] <A-L-P-H-A> goldbond!
[21:41:35] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure it would be the most efficient thing to do at this point
[21:41:46] <SWPadnos> I have several programs that only run on Windows
[21:42:10] <A-L-P-H-A> such as?
[21:42:11] <SWPadnos> I can try them on VMWare, but if I'm going to do that (which still requires Windows), I may as well have a separate Win amchine
[21:42:22] <A-L-P-H-A> dual boot?
[21:42:37] <SWPadnos> Altium Designer 6, LabView FPGA module, several microcontroller and DSP IDEs ...
[21:42:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in windows on the workstation. laptop is linux only
[21:42:49] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos... oh
[21:42:51] <A-L-P-H-A> nm then
[21:43:04] <SWPadnos> yeah -it sucks, but that's how it is atm
[21:43:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I should ask you to design and program my nuclear detonation electronics. :)
[21:43:32] <SWPadnos> no problem
[21:43:38] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, when did you want to kill GWB?
[21:43:39] <SWPadnos> oh wait, you're in Canada ;)
[21:43:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I dunno... it's fun just trying to trigger carnivore...
[21:44:04] <SWPadnos> sorry - can't even joke about that - it's treason, and still punishable by death
[21:44:17] <SWPadnos> (seriously)
[21:44:19] <A-L-P-H-A> treason?
[21:44:24] <SWPadnos> uh-huh
[21:44:24] <A-L-P-H-A> for real?
[21:44:26] <SWPadnos> yep
[21:44:30] <A-L-P-H-A> how about mame him?
[21:44:36] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:44:40] <A-L-P-H-A> even though he's kind of gimpped already.
[21:44:42] <anonimasu> lol
[21:44:47] <anonimasu> just give it some tiem
[21:44:49] <anonimasu> time..
[21:45:04] <anonimasu> I think the american people will have had enough of that bugger soon :)
[21:45:06] <SWPadnos> of course, those rules only apply to us Americans
[21:45:11] <SWPadnos> too late :)
[21:45:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder when some terrorist will finally be smart, bring out the sniper rifle, and shot bush from like 2km away...
[21:45:32] <A-L-P-H-A> when's the next election? 2008?
[21:45:39] <SWPadnos> that's not terror, it would be a militaryt strike
[21:45:40] <A-L-P-H-A> another 2 years with the stupid monkey?
[21:45:43] <SWPadnos> yeah, 2008
[21:45:46] <SWPadnos> sigh
[21:45:48] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe...
[21:45:52] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, are you from a blue state?
[21:45:54] <Jymmm> SWPadnos tell me about it
[21:45:55] <SWPadnos> actually, until January 2009
[21:46:02] <SWPadnos> Vermont
[21:46:06] <A-L-P-H-A> that's a blue state.
[21:46:12] <SWPadnos> for 100+ years, the most REpublican state in the union
[21:46:19] <SWPadnos> then for 30 years, the most Democratic
[21:46:21] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm's in a purple state... well, traditionally blue, but with a terminator that's red.
[21:46:24] <SWPadnos> mow, the most diverse ;)
[21:46:40] <SWPadnos> now, not mow
[21:46:40] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: I've been pondering the same thing ;)
[21:46:49] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, what?
[21:46:55] <SWPadnos> it
[21:47:00] <SWPadnos> damn, now I said it
[21:47:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos. what? you want to kill the president? But how?
[21:47:25] <SWPadnos> I never said that :)
[21:47:28] <A-L-P-H-A> the secret service won't allow you within 500m.
[21:47:37] <A-L-P-H-A> that's not what you said when you called me. :)
[21:47:41] <A-L-P-H-A> hehehe.
[21:47:43] <SWPadnos> actually, I had secret clearance, back in the day
[21:47:43] <giacus> Hello World :)
[21:48:02] <A-L-P-H-A> I have proof! I recorded your voice... nm that it sounds like my voice, you're just really good at mimicking my voice.
[21:48:20] <SWPadnos> muahahahahahahaha
[21:48:25] <anonimasu> really?
[21:48:36] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, that's 'printf "hello" + chr(20) + "world!";'
[21:48:41] <SWPadnos> "hi, this is A-L-P-H-A, yes, please transfer all funds to SWP"
[21:48:50] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: yes! I'm alive :P
[21:49:01] <A-L-P-H-A> where's K4ts?
[21:49:06] <anonimasu> so, how's the operation going? um, machining op?
[21:49:09] <giacus> here around
[21:49:11] <SWPadnos> pessimistic programmers write "Hello, cruel world"
[21:49:19] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu... OH! good 'project' name.
[21:49:24] <giacus> planning the sea day for tomorrow :P
[21:49:28] <anonimasu> ^_^
[21:49:45] <anonimasu> I wonder how many family members the nsa will be watching
[21:49:50] <A-L-P-H-A> so this is operation 'machining op'... operation plans where SWPadnos goes to DC.
[21:50:04] <A-L-P-H-A> DC I think can be closed off too easily... you'll have to wait till he's out in more the open.
[21:50:05] <anonimasu> yeah :D
[21:50:11] <A-L-P-H-A> HEY!
[21:50:27] <anonimasu> having a decent dc voltage is a good thing when starting a operation like that
[21:50:37] <SWPadnos> http://www.pcpowercooling.com/products/viewproduct.php?show=S31ATX
[21:50:52] <SWPadnos> several decent DC voltages ;)
[21:51:04] <A-L-P-H-A> so... technically... if GWB was killed by a Iraq insurgent, that somehow go onto american soil, and took out bush... it would be a military strike, and not an assination, as Iraq insurgents are still at war?
[21:51:24] <anonimasu> heh yeah
[21:51:32] <A-L-P-H-A> interesting.
[21:51:39] <SWPadnos> it would be ahr dto categorize, since the individual isn't affiliated with any specific government
[21:51:44] <SWPadnos> ... hard to ...
[21:52:03] <SWPadnos> that's one of the problems with the "war on terror"
[21:52:07] <A-L-P-H-A> but if was say... John Malvo (sp?) somehow was able to sniper GWB, that would be an assination, as John Malvo wasn't an insurgent, not from a country at war with USA?
[21:52:33] <SWPadnos> there's no entity that can be defined as "terrorism", such that when it's gone, you've won the war
[21:52:47] <SWPadnos> we're not at war with Iraq
[21:52:59] <SWPadnos> we're at war *in* Iraq
[21:53:19] <giacus> that's not the iraq war
[21:53:21] <SWPadnos> (among other places)
[21:53:29] <anonimasu> agreed
[21:53:36] <giacus> that's Bush Family personal war :(
[21:53:48] <SWPadnos> family and friends, it seems
[21:53:59] <anonimasu> essentially they are breeding terrorism, not fighting it
[21:54:10] <giacus> far away to win on reality :/
[21:54:19] <SWPadnos> anyone with at least 0.37 brain could have predicted that
[21:54:30] <SWPadnos> I suppose that puts an upper limit on the Bush administration
[21:54:53] <giacus> Bush have to go home, how Berlusconi did ..
[21:54:54] <Rugludallur> Okey, that's it I will build my own digger and lay a new cable for my dsl this is not even funny .... .... .. .
[21:55:05] <SWPadnos> heh
[21:55:09] <giacus> :)
[21:55:37] <giacus> we have to expoert democracy not guns :P
[21:55:46] <giacus> export EMC2 :D
[21:55:48] <A-L-P-H-A> Berlusconi? it's pres?
[21:55:51] <A-L-P-H-A> IT's pres?
[21:55:53] <A-L-P-H-A> .it that is
[21:55:56] <giacus> all around the world !
[21:55:59] <giacus> hahaha
[21:56:17] <SWPadnos> we should import some democracy, so we can see how it's supposed to work
[21:56:25] <A-L-P-H-A> Rugludallur... what's up? axis will run remotely
[21:56:43] <anonimasu> heh
[21:56:57] <giacus> SWPadnos: peoples should export Knowledge
[21:56:59] <Rugludallur> sorry, I think I got disconnected, I am trying to get axis to run with Xmin
[21:57:02] <Rugludallur> Xming
[21:57:09] <giacus> the only way to win the war
[21:57:14] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos... USA isn't true democracy anyways.
[21:57:23] <giacus> when peoples understand this.. it could be late !
[21:57:25] <A-L-P-H-A> was never true democracy
[21:57:40] <giacus> US exported democracy here
[21:57:43] <SWPadnos> right - it's meant to be a "representative democracy", and a "democratic republic"
[21:57:52] <A-L-P-H-A> true democracy would allow everyone to vote... children, women, and all, on every issue, on every budget.
[21:58:02] <SWPadnos> no, only "full citizens"
[21:58:02] <giacus> I'm the first person I can confirm !!
[21:58:21] <giacus> we are free by mussolini thanks to US. really
[21:58:26] <SWPadnos> there's no requirement that anyone here on election day should be able to vote (like visitors...)
[21:58:29] <A-L-P-H-A> it's the United States of Republic American .
[21:58:35] <giacus> that was 40 years ago
[21:59:02] <A-L-P-H-A> freed by mussolini? or free from mussolini?
[21:59:08] <giacus> as saddam was a dictator, and to be against him is right
[21:59:10] <A-L-P-H-A> but they had such stylish browncoats.
[21:59:15] <SWPadnos> it's the sometimes united partially-democratically-elected state-fiefdoms of North America
[21:59:22] <giacus> you know who was mussolini ?
[21:59:34] <SWPadnos> Hitler's right-hand-mafia man
[21:59:51] <giacus> mussolini was the first Hitler friend
[21:59:57] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus, mussolini was the head of IT in WWII.
[22:00:07] <SWPadnos> they had IT in WWII?
[22:00:39] <giacus> mussolini was a killer
[22:00:58] <giacus> killer of freedom
[22:02:08] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe... Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini... BAAM! Ohhh... who's that annoying cook that says "BAAM!" all the time?
[22:02:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Legasi?
[22:02:11] <giacus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mussolini
[22:02:16] <A-L-P-H-A> Andre Legasi?
[22:03:10] <giacus> no idea
[22:03:14] <giacus> who is ?
[22:04:18] <jepler> SWPadnos: ha ha
[22:04:46] <giacus> :d
[22:05:52] <SWPadnos> jepler, which?
[22:06:00] <jepler> SWPadnos: "they had IT in WWII?"
[22:06:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[22:06:21] <SWPadnos> thought it might be "hello, cruel world"
[22:06:33] <giacus> nahhh
[22:06:40] <giacus> world is nicee :)
[22:06:47] <giacus> depend on point of view
[22:06:58] <giacus> adjust the camera visual :)))
[22:08:03] <giacus> the simplest things are the better
[22:08:04] <anonimasu> lol
[22:08:17] <giacus> planning to go to fish tomorrow !
[22:08:30] <giacus> and see the match germany-italy
[22:08:33] <giacus> :)))
[22:08:59] <giacus> watch*
[22:09:32] <giacus> Gattuso seems in form
[22:09:44] <giacus> :P
[22:10:13] <SWPadnos> holy cow: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=TNN-500AF.html
[22:12:05] <jepler> SWPadnos: I'd love something like that .. but, my god, the price!
[22:12:10] <SWPadnos> yeah
[22:12:15] <jepler> why not just make a computer that doesn't require 200W of power in the first place ....?
[22:12:19] <SWPadnos> and no dual-CPU option
[22:12:25] <SWPadnos> err - dual CPUs
[22:12:27] <giacus> cool
[22:12:34] <giacus> that's a nice job
[22:12:47] <SWPadnos> I was surprised - my touchscreen PC only takes ~56W
[22:12:59] <SWPadnos> that's including the backlight and LCD
[22:13:18] <SWPadnos> and including losses from the cheapo power supply it has
[22:14:15] <giacus> oh !
[22:14:29] <giacus> _tarzan_ (n=user as not root !
[22:14:34] <giacus> what happen ? :PP
[22:14:50] <giacus> got it ? at the end
[22:15:24] <giacus> :))
[22:15:33] <Rugludallur> For the record I got Axis working over remote X11 to a windows box, just needed to add the fonts :P so Xming + emc + axis works
[22:16:28] <Mess> im alive... i held off the lobster for supper tonite... i was starting to crap GREEN...
[22:16:36] <giacus> Rugludallur: was you the person mixing stable - unstable debian packages in the ML ?
[22:16:47] <giacus> hi Mess :)
[22:16:50] <fenn> Mess: that's the butter drawing all the bile stones out of your clogged liver :)
[22:17:21] <giacus> I read about crazy peoples mixing stable-unstable packages ...
[22:17:23] <Rugludallur> giacus: Yup that would be me
[22:17:27] <Mess> is that a good thing?>???
[22:17:35] <giacus> Rugludallur: arrrghhh
[22:17:45] <fenn> Mess: yup
[22:17:45] <giacus> really ?
[22:17:48] <giacus> :((
[22:17:53] <A-L-P-H-A> FINALLY found his name.
[22:17:55] <A-L-P-H-A> Emeril Lagasse
[22:17:59] <giacus> bad bad bad !
[22:18:01] <Mess> BAM..
[22:18:04] <A-L-P-H-A> BAAM! BAAM! BAAM! BAAM! BAAM! BAAM!
[22:18:05] <giacus> haha
[22:18:14] <giacus> lol
[22:18:27] <A-L-P-H-A> flintstones, we're the flintson...
[22:18:28] <Mess> pump it up a notch... BAAM!!!
[22:18:33] <giacus> no, just crazy peoples can miox that packages
[22:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> yabadaba yabadaba doooo!
[22:18:35] <giacus> :DD
[22:18:47] <giacus> mix*
[22:18:50] <Mess> ist Betty HOT...
[22:19:15] <A-L-P-H-A> firerocks hot.
[22:19:22] <giacus> (00:26:36) Non ti scordar di me.: ciaoooooooooooooooo
[22:19:24] <giacus> hahaha
[22:19:38] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus... where's K4ts, did you kill her? What'd you do with her?
[22:19:50] <giacus> foumd lot of crazy peoples around the world :/
[22:20:02] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: msn
[22:20:12] <Mess> i gotta go walk off dinner....im StUFFED
[22:20:14] <giacus> she's tourturing mi laptop with xp ..
[22:20:26] <giacus> I really dont know why
[22:20:40] <A-L-P-H-A> what does europe have wine that comes in plastic bottles?? I can believe and agree with plastic corks/tops. or Metal tops... but PLASTIC bottles?
[22:20:54] <A-L-P-H-A> what=why
[22:21:07] <fenn> they should sell wine in boxes..
[22:21:16] <Mess> PEI still uses glass pop bottles..
[22:21:17] <giacus> who use plastic ?
[22:21:19] <anonimasu> heh
[22:21:26] <anonimasu> they use boxes already
[22:21:38] <Mess> bags ang boxes
[22:21:38] <giacus> that's bad the good wine should use only* glass
[22:21:45] <Dallur> I love my internet, my internet loves me
[22:21:56] <giacus> :D
[22:22:11] <Mess> bbl...walk time
[22:22:31] <giacus> uhu
[22:22:35] <giacus> hehe
[22:22:47] <K4ts> eheh?
[22:22:52] <K4ts> hello
[22:23:01] <giacus> that adress looks familiar
[22:23:06] <giacus> let me check ..
[22:23:25] <giacus> whoami
[22:23:29] <giacus> :)
[22:23:44] <giacus> K4ts: hello
[22:23:49] <giacus> how are you ?
[22:24:04] <K4ts> tres bien
[22:24:21] <giacus> bien shumacher ?
[22:24:39] <K4ts> ja!
[22:24:49] <giacus> didnt understand
[22:24:56] <giacus> ja ?
[22:25:00] <giacus> telefunken ?
[22:25:08] <giacus> sorry don't speak german
[22:25:20] <K4ts> limoncello di sorrento
[22:25:31] <K4ts> da alla testa
[22:25:34] <giacus> ahhh .. ok ok
[22:25:50] <giacus> understand you're aheaded
[22:26:06] <giacus> :)
[22:26:11] <giacus> gimme the five
[22:26:23] <giacus> 5
[22:29:55] <giacus> toniiii
[22:30:47] <giacus> wow
[22:31:16] <giacus> guys I wanna tell you the secret of the world
[22:31:29] <fenn> it's bullshit all the way down?
[22:31:29] <giacus> change a waorld
[22:31:40] <giacus> change a word
[22:31:46] <fenn> s/bullshit/turtles/
[22:31:51] <giacus> change the meaning of a world
[22:32:07] <giacus> and you'll change the world !
[22:32:22] <fenn> s/giacus/jackass/
[22:32:26] <giacus> ops
[22:32:29] <giacus> heheh
[22:32:36] <giacus> right, I repeat
[22:32:41] <fenn> did it work? i change the world yet?
[22:32:42] <giacus> change a word
[22:32:51] <giacus> change the meaning of a word
[22:33:01] <giacus> and you can change the world !
[22:33:06] <Dallur> fenn: to change the meaning of the world you have to make it global, like s/whoever/jackass/g
[22:33:14] <giacus> now its right :))
[22:33:26] <JymmmEMC> * JymmmEMC gives giacus a wedgy!
[22:33:27] <fenn> Dallur: i'm lazy
[22:33:48] <giacus> change a word*
[22:33:58] <giacus> sorry.. not a world
[22:34:03] <giacus> change a word*
[22:34:20] <giacus> change the mean of it
[22:34:42] <giacus> that's the big secret
[22:34:57] <giacus> hidden
[22:36:02] <fenn> sounds more like politics to me
[22:36:18] <fenn> i'll stick with my turtles hypothesis
[22:36:34] <giacus> sound likie laws editors
[22:36:41] <giacus> sound like power
[22:36:45] <giacus> that's is
[22:37:36] <giacus> they are just playng around the meaning of the words
[22:38:10] <giacus> :)))
[22:39:09] <Dallur> jmkasunich: you there ?
[22:39:16] <jmkasunich> yeah
[22:39:40] <Dallur> Remember that bootstrap problem with halui
[22:40:00] <Dallur> where I was unable to bind to halui pins because halui had not loaded
[22:40:01] <jmkasunich> vaguely, remind me.
[22:40:04] <jmkasunich> ok
[22:40:13] <Dallur> I think we might have the same issue with halvcp
[22:40:21] <jmkasunich> not too surprising
[22:40:29] <Dallur> I manage to start everything about 50% of the time
[22:40:33] <jmkasunich> jepler wrote a waitpin script for that I think
[22:40:48] <jmkasunich> wiat-for-pin
[22:40:58] <Dallur> jmkasunich: he did
[22:41:12] <jmkasunich> do "loadusr -w wait-for-pin <name-of-a-halvcp-pin>
[22:41:20] <Dallur> jmkasunich: but If I remember correctly there was also another sort of fix implemented
[22:41:23] <Dallur> let me check my logs
[22:41:48] <giacus> hi John :)
[22:42:11] <jmkasunich> hi
[22:43:12] <jepler> I have been working on a way for userspace components to signal that they're "ready", which would remove the need to wait for a pin
[22:43:19] <jepler> but I haven't checked it in yet
[22:43:31] <K4ts> jmkasunich: you are great
[22:43:49] <giacus> :)
[22:46:58] <A-L-P-H-A> K4ts! hi
[22:47:11] <giacus> jmkasunich: that's a really good thing sayd by K4ts !
[22:47:17] <giacus> :))
[22:47:18] <A-L-P-H-A> giacus was saying how he like the facist movement in WWII.
[22:47:33] <jmkasunich> K4ts: thank you
[22:47:48] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: I forgor it , right now :(
[22:47:49] <K4ts> A-L-P-H-A: hi
[22:48:05] <giacus> but that was true
[22:50:00] <Rugludallur> jmkasunich: nope that was it, what set me off is that it is actually called automatically
[22:50:16] <giacus> A-L-P-H-A: her father was a partigian
[22:51:01] <giacus> that mean a man a person who died and give is life for waht he's waht believe in
[22:51:12] <giacus> the freedom
[22:51:55] <giacus> that's really important and that's what we want defense
[22:52:08] <giacus> and what we believe in
[22:52:30] <giacus> back to the first argoument :)))
[22:52:54] <giacus> we was born to be FREE
[22:53:11] <giacus> and that's what we looking for
[22:53:54] <giacus> there are no people can tell we can't be free
[22:54:15] <giacus> because we are born for THAT !!
[22:54:24] <Rugludallur> fenn: fyi classicladder is still bugged when it is rezised
[22:54:42] <giacus> and thats is the biggest target we can reach
[22:54:43] <JymmmEMC> giacus, as in free beer?
[22:55:13] <giacus> JymmmEMC: no .. right now I'm drinking Limoncell
[22:55:19] <giacus> from sorrentoo :))
[22:55:21] <giacus> lol
[22:55:24] <JymmmEMC> giacus, does that mean we are all GPL? BSD? LGPL?
[22:55:25] <giacus> hahah
[22:55:31] <giacus> no
[22:55:55] <giacus> yo're FREE to chooose M$ too
[22:56:10] <giacus> but we now what peoples are doing right now
[22:56:39] <giacus> so, we know who jmkasunich IS
[22:56:52] <giacus> and other peoples too
[22:57:17] <giacus> clean ??!!
[22:57:40] <giacus> neat :P
[22:59:15] <giacus> neat
[22:59:39] <giacus> but I go away
[23:00:14] <giacus> sorry.. I talked a lot
[23:00:45] <giacus> see you tomorrow, after 23
[23:00:49] <giacus> :)
[23:01:35] <Jymmm> Well... at least we all know that giacus is a funny drunk =)
[23:03:01] <Rugludallur> Rugludallur is now known as Dallur
[23:21:19] <Mess> Hi all.. back from the beach... i got shells for my daughter.. :)
[23:21:27] <JymmmEMC> and more lobster
[23:21:40] <JymmmEMC> or was that lobster shells for your daughter?
[23:21:47] <Mess> no more lobster.... burger this evening...
[23:21:52] <JymmmEMC> lol
[23:22:09] <Mess> naw... oysters.. clams and mussels...
[23:22:24] <JymmmEMC> no abalony?
[23:23:18] <Mess> found 1/3 neat oysters stuc together with a snail attatched... no abalony... whats a abalony??
[23:23:49] <JymmmEMC> those big shells with pretty interiors
[23:24:12] <Mess> oysters..
[23:24:28] <JymmmEMC> 6" across
[23:24:30] <Mess> or are you thinkin of Conk
[23:24:46] <Mess> hand size oysters here
[23:26:03] <Jymmm> http://images.google.com/images?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&resnum=0&q=abalone%20shell&spell=1&tab=wi
[23:29:21] <Mess> none of them... i'll ask about tomorrow..
[23:32:59] <Jymmm> Yeah, kinda purrty
[23:33:17] <Jymmm> oh, what were you asking for those DIMMS?
[23:35:19] <Mess> i dunno...lemme check when i get home see what i have..
[23:38:22] <Roguish> hey everyone, anyone. what're the symtoms of the computer being toooo slow for emc2? runs good with 1 axis, runs poorly with 2 axes.
[23:40:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Nothing holds a light to ginger beer, for a pop/soda. :)
[23:40:17] <A-L-P-H-A> ginger beer rocks!
[23:46:36] <jepler> Roguish: I've never heard of a situation like that. Generally, the advice falls into two categories: if your motors stall, run the latency test if your motors stall (http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?TroubleShooting) and increase the base period if your machine locks up.
[23:47:19] <jepler> Roguish: are you using a period lower than the default (50000 nanoseconds, aka 50 microseconds)?
[23:47:26] <Roguish> jepler: thanks for the reply.
[23:47:43] <Roguish> no, period is 100000
[23:48:05] <Roguish> emc2.0.1
[23:48:12] <jepler> what do you mean when you say it "runs poorly"?
[23:48:44] <Roguish> the motors are stable individually. ie. when i have number of axis = 1.
[23:48:59] <Roguish> with axes =2, motors are not very stable.
[23:49:31] <jepler> do you mean that they stall or lose steps?
[23:49:39] <Roguish> gone thru the local diagnosits of wiring, grounding, shielding, switching motors and drives, etx.
[23:49:49] <Roguish> no the chatter.
[23:50:09] <Roguish> yaskawa ac drives with matched yaskawa motors.
[23:50:28] <Roguish> drives have their own PID intenally. got that sorted out.
[23:50:44] <jepler> so these are servo drives that take step+direction input?
[23:51:13] <Roguish> this is using m5i20 with a 7i33 to go from pwm to +-10.
[23:52:08] <Roguish> so, no steppers here.
[23:52:33] <Roguish> i'm using an old dell p2, 400mhz
[23:53:56] <jepler> I'm afraid I'm out of my depth here..
[23:54:51] <Roguish> i'll check the latency thing.
[23:55:08] <jepler> I'd try using halscope to see if the commanded PWM value is changing in an undesirable way, and a real scope to see if the filtered output has a ripple
[23:55:45] <Roguish> what do you mean by the 'filtered output'?
[23:55:55] <Roguish> which signal or pin or?
[23:56:44] <jepler> I mean the voltage output from the 7i33 board .. check it with a real oscilloscope