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[00:00:13] <A-L-P-H-A> there's no ext2 filesupport. :/
[00:18:14] <A-L-P-H-A> err. I mean ext3 for windows
[00:19:35] <jmkasunich> hey, anybody here with a CNC mill at least 12" x 12" work envelope who wants to make some parts? (I'll pay, of course)
[00:20:58] <jmkasunich> item 1: 3/4" thick aluminum plate, currently saw cut to 10-5/8 x 10-1/8, needs milled to 10.5 x 10.0, about 10-12 holes, and a 1.5" diameter x 3/8 deep pocket in the middle - 4 pieces
[00:21:38] <jmkasunich> item 2: 1/2" thick aluminum plate, currently saw cut to 10-5/8 x 10-1/8, needs milled to 10.5 x 10.0, four holes, and a 1.5" diameter x 3/8 deep pocket in the middle - 8 pieces
[00:22:08] <jmkasunich> I provide material, pay shipping both ways - you name your price for the machine time
[00:24:07] <jmkasunich> I've made these parts manually, but it takes 3 setups on 3 machines, with 6 clampings - on a CNC mill its one setup, two clampings (so you can mill all four edges)
[00:32:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I'd offer... but I'm way to slow...
[00:33:38] <jmkasunich> how slow is too slow?
[00:34:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I've gotta make sure my setup works too perfectly before I offer.
[00:34:38] <jmkasunich> how big is your mill?
[00:34:51] <A-L-P-H-A> 26x7x3.5 hence jig.
[00:35:01] <jmkasunich> not big enough
[00:35:06] <A-L-P-H-A> okie doke.
[00:35:35] <jmkasunich> I don't think a bridgeport has enough Y travel, and I _know_ the table isn't wide enough to do it in one setup
[00:36:28] <jmkasunich> the idea is to clamp from two sides and mill the other two edges, then add clamps to the newly milled edges, remove the original clamps, mill the other two sides, drill the holes, and mill the pocket.
[00:36:44] <jmkasunich> so it wants a pretty big table
[00:43:32] <A-L-P-H-A> also, even if I did... I live in Canuckia.
[00:44:13] <jmkasunich> makes shipping a bit complicated
[00:49:41] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone know of an mythtv already built system?
[00:49:44] <A-L-P-H-A> err.
[00:49:47] <A-L-P-H-A> let me rephrase.
[00:50:02] <A-L-P-H-A> mythtv livecd, or mythtv inclusive system?
[00:54:50] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: looks like ubuntu has a bunch of mythtv packages but I know jack about them
[00:55:02] <jepler> Version: 0.18.1-5
[00:55:03] <A-L-P-H-A> found a knoppmyth package.
[00:55:05] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
[00:55:12] <jepler> * jepler wanders off again
[00:55:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I got a TV card, might as well use it right? :)
[00:55:18] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler. thank you though
[01:19:35] <jmkasunich> sent email request-for-quotes to three local shops
[01:19:58] <jmkasunich> we'll see if the even bother to get back to me, a lot of shops don't like small jobs
[01:20:07] <A-L-P-H-A> yup
[01:20:10] <A-L-P-H-A> that's very true
[01:20:16] <A-L-P-H-A> they usually hate small jobs
[01:20:23] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll do it for $5000 :)
[01:20:41] <jmkasunich> how about $500?
[01:20:41] <A-L-P-H-A> $3500 if you throw in a decent EMC computer...
[01:21:02] <A-L-P-H-A> that was the number I was actually thinking... but again, I don't have a machine capable
[01:21:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I think Jymmm does... but it's not a very robust machine...
[01:21:29] <jmkasunich> no, Jymm's machine is a router, not a mill
[01:21:36] <A-L-P-H-A> oh yeah.
[01:21:51] <A-L-P-H-A> I actually don't know anyone with that sized capable mill. :(
[01:21:55] <jmkasunich> I want something that can trim the 1/8" off the edge of a 3/4" aluminum plate in one pass
[01:22:11] <A-L-P-H-A> that is definitely not me. :(
[01:22:13] <jmkasunich> a bridgeport has the guts, just not the Y travel
[01:22:22] <jmkasunich> it could be done in a couple setups on the bport
[01:22:58] <jmkasunich> I can actually mill the edges on my mill (I can mill all 4 or 8 plates stacked up, in one pass per edge)
[01:23:14] <jmkasunich> but the drilling and pocketing would be so much faster with a CNC that I don't want to do it manually
[01:23:45] <A-L-P-H-A> rotary table! :)
[01:23:57] <jmkasunich> for the pocket?
[01:24:03] <A-L-P-H-A> sure.
[01:24:14] <jmkasunich> last time around I mounted it on the lathe faceplate and bored the pocket
[01:24:32] <A-L-P-H-A> you got a big lathe?
[01:24:44] <jmkasunich> no, a shoptask 3-in-1
[01:24:55] <jmkasunich> but the one thing they are good at is large swing
[01:24:58] <A-L-P-H-A> omg. those machines scare me.
[01:25:18] <jmkasunich> swings 14" over the bed, 8" over the table/carriage
[01:25:26] <A-L-P-H-A> nice.
[01:25:38] <A-L-P-H-A> mine's tiny. but it's a jewellers lathe.
[01:25:40] <jmkasunich> its a not bad lathe, a weak mill, and a crappy drill press
[01:25:44] <A-L-P-H-A> Schuablin 102, swiss thing
[01:25:55] <jmkasunich> teeny
[01:26:15] <A-L-P-H-A> yup. but it's made it's money back.
[01:26:24] <jmkasunich> machines are nice that way
[01:26:32] <jmkasunich> that shoptask cost me $1500 in 1998
[01:26:42] <A-L-P-H-A> nice.
[01:26:46] <A-L-P-H-A> they haven't really gone up or down since.
[01:27:03] <A-L-P-H-A> www.busybeetools.ca is Canada's version of HF, or Grizzly.
[01:27:11] <jmkasunich> I've made close to $20K since then (using it, and my $600 Van Norman mill)
[01:28:05] <A-L-P-H-A> I've spent 4.5K into my shop... made that all back, plus more.
[01:28:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I bought some gecko G201 R1, and resold them... made some good coin there as well.
[01:28:31] <jmkasunich> the trick is to find some customers and keep them happy
[01:28:50] <jmkasunich> I have a niche market that I make some jigs and lab equipment for
[01:30:41] <cradek> jmkasunich: you should ask dave-e
[01:30:51] <jmkasunich> thats a thought
[01:31:09] <jmkasunich> but shipping 75 lbs of aluminum across the country twice kinda sucks
[01:31:19] <jmkasunich> I'll see if any of the local shops are interested
[01:31:38] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't mind having a local shop I could farm out stuff to
[01:31:41] <cradek> if you planned at first to use him it would be better to have him buy it
[01:31:50] <cradek> yeah those contacts are priceless
[01:32:14] <A-L-P-H-A> no, they're the cost of coffee and beers.
[01:32:18] <A-L-P-H-A> ;)
[01:32:28] <jmkasunich> I've about decided I'm not building any more of these jigs unless the money is really really good (good enough that I can farm out the work and still make $$)
[01:32:40] <A-L-P-H-A> walk into the metal supply place... bring a round of coffee, and you walk out with like $50 worth of scrap.
[01:32:46] <jmkasunich> so it will be interesting to explore the possibilities
[01:32:47] <cradek> well-timed beer (or donuts) can win you a lot of good will.
[01:33:29] <jmkasunich> until an hour or so ago, I was still planning to make the plates myself (just picked up the metal today)
[01:33:29] <A-L-P-H-A> weekday afternoons = coffee. Friday near end of work, beers. Saturday near end of work, beers. ;)
[01:33:37] <jmkasunich> I wasn't looking forward to it though
[01:33:45] <jmkasunich> and then I burned up the start cap on the lathe motor
[01:33:49] <cradek> does sound like a pain.
[01:33:56] <cradek> ah crap
[01:33:57] <jmkasunich> the pocket in the plates is the last lathe work needed
[01:34:09] <jmkasunich> cheap ass chinese single phase motors and caps
[01:34:14] <cradek> at least it's not sunday
[01:34:23] <A-L-P-H-A> jmkasunich, replace the motors... and do it yourself... you'll make more money that way
[01:34:23] <cradek> you can get a cap locally easily right?
[01:34:25] <jmkasunich> they're OK if you start the motor about 5 times per hour
[01:34:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder if anon ever did that hydrualic system.
[01:34:58] <jmkasunich> but I was threading, and with no half nuts, that means engage gears, make a pass, back the tool out, reverse, feed tool, make a pass, etc
[01:35:10] <cradek> oh yuck.
[01:35:20] <cradek> that's how sherline does it :-/
[01:35:24] <jmkasunich> in the past I've done a lot of threading turning the spindle by hand, but this time I got impatient
[01:35:41] <jmkasunich> let the stinky smoke out
[01:35:52] <cradek> well not my sherline, but everyone else's
[01:36:02] <jmkasunich> at least I don't have to thread 0.0005 per pass like the sherline
[01:36:10] <A-L-P-H-A> stupid last owner killed the threader... and tossed it. I wasn't happy about that.
[01:36:25] <cradek> it's much nicer now that I have constant-area passes
[01:36:29] <jmkasunich> my cuts were 0.005, 0.010, 0.015, 0.020, 0.025, 0.030, 0.035, 0.040. 0.042, 0.044, 0.044, 0.044 done
[01:36:59] <jmkasunich> 7/8-16 external threads in bronze, and internal threads in aluminum
[01:37:14] <jmkasunich> zorched the motor on the last one
[01:37:21] <cradek> 005 for the last pass seems pretty darn heavy
[01:37:27] <cradek> arg!
[01:37:34] <A-L-P-H-A> luckily my threading can be done by by a die... I usually never do anything over 5-40.
[01:37:48] <jmkasunich> last four passes were two of 0.002 and two spring cuts
[01:37:53] <cradek> ah
[01:38:09] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: dies are useless if the threads need to be concentric with something
[01:38:13] <jmkasunich> right
[01:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> threading concentric? like pipe threads?
[01:38:36] <jmkasunich> in this case, the bronze part is a 5/8" x 5tpi ACME nut
[01:38:46] <jmkasunich> the 7/8-16 threads attach it to the machine frame
[01:39:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I have a 1/2-10 ACME tap... [no die, I buy that shit]
[01:39:30] <jmkasunich> I chucked up a short length of the ACME threaded rod, screwed the nut on, and threaded the OD, so everything is concentric
[01:40:07] <jmkasunich> I buy the threaded rod - no way you can make it even remotely accurate with a die
[01:40:15] <cradek> how well does your 3-jaw center? my big one is crap
[01:40:25] <jmkasunich> about 0.002-3
[01:40:26] <A-L-P-H-A> my 4" is uber.
[01:40:42] <cradek> that's pretty nice
[01:40:53] <jmkasunich> if I need something better, I use a collet
[01:40:54] <cradek> I get that with my 4-jaw after lots of tapping and measuring
[01:41:14] <cradek> mallet-tapping, not thread-tapping
[01:41:26] <jmkasunich> with the 4-jaw I can usually dial things in to +/- 0.001 or better
[01:41:45] <jmkasunich> snug all jaws lightly, put the indicator on it, and rotate while tightening the jaws
[01:41:55] <jmkasunich> you can creep it a half-a-thou that way
[01:41:58] <cradek> I always get frustrated when setup takes longer than cutting, but that's how machining is
[01:43:00] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:43:15] <jmkasunich> the gearbox in these jigs is especially painfull
[01:43:20] <cradek> for my spindle encoder mount I had to mount raw bar stock and take about .005 dia off of it
[01:43:31] <cradek> it was the largest bar I had
[01:43:46] <jmkasunich> so you had to center it within 0.0025
[01:43:47] <jmkasunich> fun
[01:43:57] <jmkasunich> how big was it?
[01:43:58] <cradek> and it was dirty so the indicator jumped around at least that much
[01:44:08] <jmkasunich> (if reasonable, I'd just get a bigger bar)
[01:44:12] <cradek> 1 or 1.25, don't recall
[01:44:18] <jmkasunich> ah
[01:44:31] <jmkasunich> I have some bits and pieces floating around here
[01:44:40] <cradek> sure but that adds days to the project and I'm not patient when I just have one more part to make
[01:45:12] <cradek> it turned out maybe .001 or 2 under, just fine since the encoder mount clamps down some
[01:46:23] <cradek> and the bore turned out perfect, I was more worried about it (no clamping action there)
[01:47:02] <cradek> I really have to get a video made of that lathe!
[01:48:14] <cradek> jmkasunich: are these the last parts for your jigs?
[01:48:20] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:49:03] <cradek> good, hope you are in the clear soon
[01:49:30] <jmkasunich> can't wait
[01:49:36] <jepler> does anyone have trouble with this URL?
http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/hal_parport_inputs.patch
[01:49:58] <jmkasunich> works for me
[01:50:12] <cradek> fine here
[01:50:35] <jepler> ok thanks
[01:56:59] <cradek> wow how did it get to be 9:00 already
[01:57:10] <cradek> jeez I need a weekend
[01:57:41] <jmkasunich> I need to wash clothes and pack, we are going away tomorrow for the weekend
[01:58:11] <cradek> you missed the long weekend by a week...
[01:59:12] <jmkasunich> this weekend is our anniversary
[01:59:39] <cradek> which one?
[01:59:46] <jmkasunich> 17th
[02:00:27] <cradek> cool, my parents' was yesterday, 36 I think
[02:02:48] <jmkasunich> here's where we're going:
http://www.highlandssanctuary.org/hermitage/hermitage.htm
[02:04:24] <jepler> wow that looks great
[02:04:55] <jmkasunich> no TV, no phone, no computer - peace and quiet
[02:04:58] <cradek> looks very nice
[02:05:09] <cradek> and not too expensive at all
[02:05:16] <jmkasunich> no, I'm amazed
[02:05:17] <jepler> no computer !?!?
[02:05:27] <cradek> I like how they say WE DON'T WANT YOUR DAMN KIDS HERE twice
[02:05:42] <jmkasunich> ordinary hotels and B&Bs in the area are _more_ expensive, but IMO not as nice
[02:05:55] <jmkasunich> (at least I hope its as nice as it seems - never been there before)
[02:06:10] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:06:29] <jmkasunich> the organization that runs it and the surrounding refuge is very picky
[02:07:02] <jmkasunich> they strictly limit the number of people allowed to hike, and if you stray off the trails and start tromping on the vegatation they get very angry
[02:07:18] <jepler> nature nazis
[02:07:18] <cradek> 'The Hermitage is not rented to any other guests.'
[02:07:22] <cradek> wonder what this one means
[02:07:31] <jepler> cradek: you get the whole thing, I think...?
[02:07:34] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:07:51] <jepler> jmkasunich: when you get back, let me know how you liked it
[02:08:03] <jepler> this sounds like something Ingrid would really like
[02:08:20] <jmkasunich> pretty long drive from NE
[02:08:21] <cradek> where is it?
[02:08:30] <jmkasunich> about an hour from Columbus OH
[02:08:32] <jepler> yeah it would be a long drive
[02:08:37] <jmkasunich> more or less the middle of ohio
[02:09:00] <cradek> that is a long drive from here...
[02:09:17] <jepler> but her conferences will take her close by someday
[02:09:30] <jmkasunich> no, the CNC workshop is a long drive... this is about twice as long
[02:09:34] <cradek> but you could go to HGR same trip
[02:09:39] <jepler> HGR?
[02:09:44] <jmkasunich> there you go!
[02:09:47] <cradek> haha
[02:10:17] <cradek> the best industrial surplus place
[02:10:20] <jmkasunich> http://www.hgrindustrialsurplus.com/
[02:10:27] <jepler> oh!
[02:10:51] <jmkasunich> and while you're in cleveland, don't forget Tommy's
[02:11:24] <jmkasunich> http://www.tommyscoventry.com/dinein/
[02:11:36] <jepler> unfortunately I'm most likely to fly into the area, making it hard to take anything that interesting home from HGR
[02:11:43] <jmkasunich> I think you guys would like tommy's - veggie friendly, huge menu
[02:11:53] <jepler> mmm
[02:12:04] <cradek> I'll definitely remember to ask you next time I go out there
[02:13:01] <jmkasunich> HGR has smaller stuff too
[02:13:05] <jmkasunich> accessories
[02:14:31] <cradek> jepler: that's where I got my nice scope
[02:15:18] <jmkasunich> I got a 4" Kurt vise for $125, collet chuck for $80, thread pitch micrometer, Halser speed indicator
[02:15:43] <jmkasunich> IIRC the indicator was $25, ebay wants $50:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=63945&item=7626475091
[02:16:03] <jmkasunich> cradek: you might like that - it uses (bulky) watch technology
[02:16:42] <jmkasunich> push the button and it clutches the input shaft to the hands for three seconds (as timed by a balance wheel, etc)
[02:17:14] <jmkasunich> the dial is calibrated in RPM
[02:17:23] <cradek> wild
[02:17:35] <cradek> so it actually counts the revs
[02:17:43] <jmkasunich> yep
[02:17:54] <jmkasunich> revs in 3 seconds, displayed as rpm
[02:17:56] <cradek> figured it was like an old car speedometer with a magnet
[02:18:22] <jmkasunich> no, you press the shaft against the spinning object, press the button, hold until it stops ticking
[02:18:29] <jmkasunich> the read at your leisure
[02:18:53] <jmkasunich> when I saw it, I didn't really need it, but it was too cool to leave behind
[02:18:59] <jmkasunich> I've used it once or twice
[02:19:22] <cradek> it is definitely cool
[02:20:11] <jmkasunich> never know what you will find at HGR
[02:22:48] <cradek> what winds the clockworks? just resetting it to zero?
[02:25:13] <jmkasunich> pressing the button
[02:25:37] <cradek> I guess you don't need much to run for 3 seconds
[02:25:43] <jmkasunich> nope
[02:26:00] <jmkasunich> IIRC there is about a 20 degree sector gear that is moved by the plunger
[02:26:28] <jmkasunich> (I always take things apart as soon as I get them)
[02:26:34] <cradek> of course
[02:26:44] <jmkasunich> I didn't take it so far apart as to have trouble putting it back together
[02:27:08] <jmkasunich> rather heavy construction by watch standards, more like clock, or somewhere in between
[02:28:31] <jmkasunich> heh, its also got a mechanical absolute value circuit in it
[02:28:48] <jmkasunich> doesn't matter which way you turn the input shaft, the hands always go clockwise
[02:29:14] <cradek> cool
[02:29:26] <cradek> about how many times a second does it tick?
[02:29:45] <jmkasunich> 2 to 3 I'd guess
[02:30:01] <cradek> that's surprisingly slow, must have a large balance
[02:30:27] <cradek> maybe it's 5 (2.5 full cycles)?
[02:30:47] <jmkasunich> the case is 2.5" diameter
[02:30:54] <jmkasunich> so the internals are not tiny
[02:31:14] <jmkasunich> could be
[02:31:51] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich gets out the little screwdrivers
[02:32:04] <cradek> eh don't on my account
[02:32:37] <jmkasunich> not on your account
[02:37:00] <jmkasunich> I like well made stuff
[02:37:06] <jmkasunich> the dial is enamel
[02:37:19] <jmkasunich> like - melted glass on metal enamel
[02:37:37] <cradek> nice, just like a pocket watch
[02:37:49] <cradek> it will last many hundreds of years unless someone molests it
[02:37:55] <jmkasunich> its even slower than I thought
[02:38:04] <A-L-P-H-A> with little screwdrivers. :(
[02:38:21] <jmkasunich> what I was counting as ticks were actually half-ticks I think
[02:38:35] <jmkasunich> balance is about .85" dia
[02:38:37] <jmkasunich> but heavy
[02:39:00] <cradek> any jewels (red bushings at the end of the shafts)?
[02:39:06] <jmkasunich> solid, not spoked, maybe 1/8" thick at the rim, and hollowed out about half depth inside for the spring
[02:39:22] <cradek> huh, very heavy, that's a surprise
[02:39:49] <jmkasunich> the end of the balance staff is hidden
[02:39:53] <cradek> pin-pallet escapement I bet
[02:40:23] <jmkasunich> the escapement fork or whatever its called, and the escapment wheel, are not jeweled
[02:40:46] <jmkasunich> big by watch standards
[02:41:01] <cradek> does the escapement fork have pins that rest against the wheel teeth?
[02:41:05] <jmkasunich> center to center from balance to escapement wheel is 1-1/4" or so
[02:41:16] <jmkasunich> yes
[02:42:16] <jmkasunich> looks like the input shaft is always driving the dial thru a friction pad
[02:42:30] <cradek> http://www.geocities.com/mvhw/wxeb17.html
[02:42:43] <jmkasunich> there is a very fine gear on the dial shaft, and a detent that is removed from the gear teeth for 3 seconds
[02:43:05] <jmkasunich> not really a gear, the teeth are triangular and fit only the detent
[02:43:56] <cradek> the triangular teeth are common in chronographs for that purpose (making the pointer rest right on a mark on the dial)
[02:44:26] <cradek> that's roundf() just like the fabs() you mentioned earlier
[02:44:31] <jmkasunich> those teeth are damn fine
[02:45:05] <jmkasunich> the dial has 100 major graduations, each broken up into 5 minor
[02:45:17] <jmkasunich> I dunno if the detent wheel has 500 teeth or not
[02:45:22] <cradek> how does the abs value work? a rocker with two equal size wheels?
[02:45:43] <jmkasunich> seems that way
[02:46:00] <jmkasunich> I'm not about to separate the two plates that hold everything together
[02:46:09] <jmkasunich> I can see a lot thru and around them tho
[02:46:36] <jmkasunich> one gear shifts back and forth when you reverse direction (can only see part of it, and nothing of what it meshes with)
[02:47:05] <jmkasunich> oh, there are two gears on that shifting assembly
[02:47:13] <cradek> yep I figured
[02:47:22] <cradek> you'd like watch work
[02:47:36] <jmkasunich> nah, too many fine details
[02:47:45] <jmkasunich> I can appreciate it, but I wouldn't want to do it
[02:47:50] <cradek> that's what makes it interesting
[02:48:14] <cradek> http://www.onthedash.com/pics/Valjoux22.jpg
[02:48:27] <jmkasunich> the escapement wheel makes one turn each time you actuate the button
[02:48:42] <jmkasunich> pretty
[02:48:49] <cradek> the chronograph wheels have those triangular teeth (you can't really see them)
[02:49:02] <cradek> those three wheels that look like they don't have teeth
[02:49:05] <jmkasunich> this one is more "workmanlike"
[02:49:12] <jmkasunich> still well made
[02:49:28] <cradek> yeah different kind of machine, but many similar ideas
[02:49:49] <cradek> and yours could possibly withstand a drop to the floor
[02:50:03] <jmkasunich> the plates have probablu
[02:50:06] <jmkasunich> oops
[02:50:08] <jmkasunich> probablu
[02:50:11] <jmkasunich> dammit
[02:50:14] <jmkasunich> probably
[02:50:35] <jmkasunich> the case is machined aluminum, about 1/8" wall
[02:50:38] <jmkasunich> 3/4" deep
[02:51:00] <jmkasunich> movement plates are brass, at least .080 thick
[02:51:29] <cradek> is it gilt or unfinished brass?
[02:51:38] <jmkasunich> just brass
[02:52:09] <jmkasunich> "engine turned" - the abrasive on a dowel method I think\
[02:52:26] <cradek> huh I'm surprised it has any decoration
[02:52:29] <jmkasunich> the balance adjustment lever and its mount are mirror polished
[02:52:50] <jmkasunich> it is Swiss after all, and old - they don't do anything half way
[02:53:17] <jmkasunich> built like a brick sh*thouse
[02:53:18] <cradek> I bet it's pre-WWII by the enamel dial
[02:53:28] <jmkasunich> the escapement wheel is at least 0.080 thick too
[02:53:37] <jmkasunich> make that 0.060
[02:53:58] <jmkasunich> the 500 tooth wheel is steel or stainless or something, not brass like most of the rest
[02:54:17] <jmkasunich> the detent that stops it also - and that is mirror polished
[02:54:24] <cradek> cool
[02:54:38] <cradek> I bet it uses some stock pocket watch parts of the era
[02:54:58] <jmkasunich> probably
[02:55:21] <jmkasunich> the "mainspring" is just a piece of spring wire
[02:55:34] <jmkasunich> two turns, with the ends sticking out
[02:55:46] <jmkasunich> "winding" is presses the ends toward each other
[02:56:17] <jmkasunich> one end presses on a pin on the sector gear, it travels about 90 degrees
[02:56:46] <cradek> I fixed a car clock like that once, it wound with an electromagnet every few minutes
[02:56:52] <jmkasunich> that is geared 4:1 to a widget concentric to the escapement wheel, with one tooth ratchet
[02:57:19] <cradek> so it really has only the one wheel?
[02:57:44] <jmkasunich> so when you push the button, the widget turns backwards one turn, then when you release the latch captures the escapement and that goes forward one turn regulated by the balance
[02:58:01] <jmkasunich> thats the timing part - sector, escapement, and balance wheel
[02:58:05] <jmkasunich> there is also the readout part
[02:58:15] <jmkasunich> input shaft, bevel gear to drive a fixed shaft
[02:58:16] <cradek> oh right
[02:58:33] <jmkasunich> that drives the floating abs() gears
[02:58:51] <jmkasunich> can't tell if theres anything between the abs() and the central dial shaft
[02:59:06] <jmkasunich> then there is a 'tens' dial geared down from the main shaft
[02:59:10] <cradek> haha abs()
[02:59:51] <jmkasunich> the reset to zero is by a pair of heart shaped cams on the two hands
[03:01:27] <cradek> so when it resets it must somehow separate the gearing between the two indicator wheels
[03:01:54] <jmkasunich> either that or the hands are friction connected to the shafts
[03:02:03] <jmkasunich> when I removed the dial, the hands came with it
[03:02:16] <jmkasunich> the cams are under the dial, hands on top, and the cam is hollow
[03:02:26] <jmkasunich> the shafts are still in the mechanism
[03:02:39] <jmkasunich> and pointy on the ends - they slip inside the hands
[03:03:05] <jmkasunich> pointy, polished, and with a small groove near the front plate
[03:03:27] <jmkasunich> reminds me of an earing post - the groove serves as a detent for the grippy part that goes on the post
[03:04:09] <jmkasunich> yep
[03:04:32] <jmkasunich> the connection between hand and cam is a short hollow shaft
[03:04:53] <jmkasunich> and there is a spring wire attached to the cam that enters thru a slot in that shaft and presses against the main shaft
[03:05:02] <jmkasunich> probably lines up with the groobe
[03:05:05] <jmkasunich> ve
[03:05:14] <cradek> ah that's the slip clutch and also holds it together I guess
[03:05:35] <jmkasunich> the slip clutch for reset, yes
[03:05:55] <jmkasunich> theres gotta be another one for drive, because the 500 tooth detent wheel is inside
[03:06:49] <jmkasunich> the face is spring loaded against the inside rim of the cover
[03:07:50] <jmkasunich> crystal is cracked, maybe should try to replace it someday
[03:08:05] <cradek> plastic or glass?
[03:08:14] <jmkasunich> I wonder how hard it is to get 2.5" diameter crystals?
[03:08:15] <jmkasunich> glass
[03:08:34] <cradek> flat glass or convex?
[03:08:37] <jmkasunich> flat
[03:08:55] <cradek> still kind of hard to get
[03:09:06] <jmkasunich> its held into the inside of the front cover by a ring retained by three tiny pressed in pins
[03:09:33] <cradek> ah that's not so hard then, the size and edge finish aren't critical
[03:09:48] <jmkasunich> right
[03:09:49] <cradek> someone who cuts glass for art could even do it
[03:10:05] <jmkasunich> it would probably tolerate +/- 1mm
[03:10:15] <jmkasunich> minus anyway, plus would be a problem ;-)
[03:10:19] <cradek> in a pocket watch the glass snaps in to the case and has to be just right
[03:11:05] <cradek> or else pretty close and you cheat and use glue
[03:12:56] <cradek> I better get to bed, goodnight all
[03:13:28] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:15:39] <jmkasunich> there, all back together, and no leftover parts!
[06:48:13] <A-L-P-H-A> ubuntu... :/
[06:48:19] <A-L-P-H-A> STILL can't get the third monitor to work.
[06:48:30] <A-L-P-H-A> with new vid cards... from ATI to no nVidia.
[08:02:54] <acemi> after the last changes in CVS, I get some new library missing messages. the following shows the differences betwen the output of current CVS and the output of old CVS (2 day ago) at configure time
[08:02:57] <acemi> http://pastebin.ca/164062
[09:29:56] <danex> * danex is away: Away at the moment
[10:10:41] <acemi> after changing LIBS="-lXaw $LIBS" to LIBS="$X_LIBS -lXaw $LIBS" in src/configure at line 7704 and 7766, the above problem disappears
[10:18:49] <alex_joni> acemi: cool
[10:46:36] <alex_joni> acemi: around?
[10:47:01] <acemi> ?
[10:47:13] <alex_joni> ok.. the change you made is only to configure
[10:47:19] <acemi> yes
[10:47:28] <alex_joni> and that's not a proper fix, because configure is generated automatically from configure.in
[10:47:38] <alex_joni> so it's very likely the change will get lost in 2-3 versions from now
[10:47:46] <acemi> hmm
[10:48:02] <alex_joni> I'll make a change to configure.in, hopefully that'll be OK
[10:48:14] <alex_joni> but I do wonder why readline has anything to do with X_LIBS
[10:49:03] <acemi> there is -lXaw in readline compile command
[10:49:25] <alex_joni> really? .. odd
[10:50:26] <acemi> gcc-2.95 -o conftest -g -O2 conftest.c -lreadline -L/usr/X11R6/lib -lXaw >&5
[10:50:29] <acemi> from config.log
[10:51:59] <alex_joni> configure:7800: checking readline/readline.h usability
[10:51:59] <alex_joni> configure:7812: gcc -c -g -O2 conftest.c >&5
[10:51:59] <alex_joni> conftest.c:62:31: error: readline/readline.h: No such file or directory
[10:52:19] <alex_joni> * alex_joni installs libreadline
[10:53:55] <acemi> I checked CVS of 2 days ago. there no -lXaw when compiling and it works
[10:54:23] <acemi> the same for ncurses
[10:55:46] <alex_joni> it works here as it is now
[10:55:57] <alex_joni> maybe you changed configure locally? and it didn't get updated from CVS?
[10:56:37] <acemi> because in ubuntu, libxaw.a is in /usr/lib. in Sarge it's in /usr/X11R6/lib
[10:57:06] <acemi> you don't need to use -L
[10:57:06] <alex_joni> I know that.. but I don't see any point of having readline in /usr/X11R6/lib
[10:57:13] <alex_joni> now we use it there too
[10:58:36] <alex_joni> hmm.. I think I see what you mean
[11:00:08] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/164171
[11:02:26] <acemi> is -lXaw needed for this line "gcc -o conftest -g -O2 conftest.c -lreadline -lXaw" ?
[11:02:31] <alex_joni> no
[11:02:36] <alex_joni> I'm trying to remove that now
[11:03:16] <acemi> I think there is the same thing for ncurses and set locales
[11:03:25] <alex_joni> yes, indeed
[11:03:32] <alex_joni> and -lintl and anotherone
[11:03:34] <alex_joni> gettext
[11:07:33] <alex_joni> acemi: commiting soon, can you test in a bit?
[11:07:42] <acemi> yes
[11:09:48] <alex_joni> commit is a bit slow :)
[11:10:12] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): fix for debian systems, clean up LIBS after finding Xaw, futher tests (readline, ncurses, etc) don't need it anyways
[11:12:24] <acemi> readline and ncurses are OK
[11:12:49] <acemi> I have theese:
[11:12:50] <acemi> checking libintl.h usability... yes
[11:12:51] <acemi> checking libintl.h presence... yes
[11:12:51] <acemi> checking for libintl.h... yes
[11:12:51] <acemi> checking for gettext in -lintl... no
[11:13:23] <alex_joni> I get the same
[11:13:30] <alex_joni> but I have xgettext which works
[11:13:36] <alex_joni> further down
[11:14:39] <acemi> but this not new for me, I got the same with old CVS too
[11:15:40] <alex_joni> ok, so no problem?
[11:15:49] <acemi> yes
[11:15:55] <acemi> no problem
[11:16:09] <alex_joni> OK
[11:16:20] <alex_joni> it should find xgettext if you have it
[11:16:24] <alex_joni> a few tests later
[11:29:52] <A-L-P-H-A> so freak'n happy... monitors now all work in ubuntu.
[11:30:01] <alex_joni> heh
[11:30:17] <A-L-P-H-A> now, all I gotta figure out is how to have my two SATA drives in raid 0.
[11:30:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I better post my results somewhere, before my system crashses, and I have ZERO backups.
[11:31:18] <A-L-P-H-A> I also seem to have no sound. which is odd to me.
[11:31:21] <A-L-P-H-A> there was sound before.
[11:31:23] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[11:31:31] <A-L-P-H-A> and no it's not muted, and my amp is on.
[12:40:44] <A-L-P-H-A> whoot!
[12:40:49] <A-L-P-H-A> sound + 3 monitors!
[12:40:53] <A-L-P-H-A> this is a good linux day
[12:50:30] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone know who to mount a software raid drive?
[12:59:24] <jepler> I've never had two identical disks to run RAID on
[13:15:09] <alex_joni> morning jeff
[13:20:09] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A:
http://gridpt1.fe.up.pt/mlopes/blog/index.php/software-raid-in-ubuntu/
[13:20:50] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A:
http://gridpt1.fe.up.pt/mlopes/blog/index.php/software-raid-in-ubuntu/
[13:20:50] <A-L-P-H-4> heh.
[13:20:56] <A-L-P-H-4> this is whacked
[13:21:14] <A-L-P-H-4> I'm linux running wine running mirc.
[13:23:19] <A-L-P-H-4> alex_joni, thanks!
[13:27:19] <A-L-P-H-4> A-L-P-H-4 is now known as A-L-P-H-A
[13:27:19] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: GIYF
[13:27:23] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[13:27:36] <A-L-P-H-A> google it you fucker?
[13:27:58] <alex_joni> google is your friend
[13:27:59] <alex_joni> :D
[13:28:03] <alex_joni> but close enough
[13:28:07] <A-L-P-H-A> hehe.
[13:28:19] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm in a slightly grumpy mood... I don't know why
[13:28:24] <alex_joni> http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/G/GIYF.html
[13:28:26] <A-L-P-H-A> I think it was cause linux was causing me headaches.
[13:29:15] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.googleityoumoron.com/
[13:30:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I feel so much cleaner, without windows.
[13:42:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni goes home
[13:42:51] <alex_joni> later everyone
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/comp.g:
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> make 'comp' able to directly compile (comp --compile example.comp) or
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> compile and install (comp --install example.comp) components
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/Submakefile:
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> make 'comp' able to directly compile (comp --compile example.comp) or
[14:15:44] <CIA-8> compile and install (comp --install example.comp) components
[14:26:06] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_HAL.lyx Submakefile): documentation of comp
[14:26:08] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (comp.lyx .cvsignore): documentation of comp
[14:27:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/debian/emc2-dev.files: comp belongs in the development package
[14:49:21] <A-L-P-H-A> what irc client's do you all use?
[14:49:28] <A-L-P-H-A> xchat annoys me a little.
[14:49:40] <A-L-P-H-A> chatzilla is... umm. dunno...
[14:49:54] <A-L-P-H-A> gaim beta3-1 seems to lock up my system.
[15:30:53] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: I'm using irssi
[15:30:56] <A-L-P-H-A> hey, this maybe a stupid question... but I've mounted a raid0 reiserfs, and now the whole thing is locked to root. fileowner is root, and group is root as well... how
[15:31:10] <A-L-P-H-A> do I make it so I can use it as a general data dump for myself?
[15:31:22] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: edit fstab properly, and mount it as user
[15:31:44] <alex_joni> make sure it has user or users under mount options
[15:31:51] <A-L-P-H-A> umask of what? 777?
[15:31:52] <alex_joni> also RW
[15:31:59] <alex_joni> yeah, that works too
[15:36:35] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm lost.
[15:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> /dev/md0/media/raid0reiserfsuser 0 1
[15:36:42] <A-L-P-H-A> that doesn't work...
[15:36:45] <A-L-P-H-A> if I do...
[15:36:56] <A-L-P-H-A> /dev/md0/media/raid0reiserfsdefault 0 1
[15:37:03] <A-L-P-H-A> it's mounted as root only
[15:38:33] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: after mounting it, change the ownership or permission on /media/raid0 so that other users can write to it
[15:38:50] <jepler> using chmod or chown
[15:39:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I did chmod 0777
[15:39:56] <jepler> and that succeeded?
[15:41:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I can copy stuff to it now.
[15:41:42] <jepler> ok good
[15:41:55] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks.
[15:41:56] <jepler> as long as you trust all the users on the system "chmod 0777" should be fine
[15:42:04] <A-L-P-H-A> only user is me.
[15:42:07] <jepler> ok
[15:42:44] <A-L-P-H-A> or should it be like 0167?
[15:42:59] <A-L-P-H-A> so only my user account can play with it?
[15:43:31] <jepler> well maybe using 'chown myuser' then 'chmod 0700' (only I can read or write to it) or 'chmod 0755' (only I can write to it) is better
[15:44:16] <jepler> it's unusual to see modes where "user" or "group" have fewer permissions than "all"
[15:44:43] <A-L-P-H-A> here's the whole situation. it's a raid0 reiserFS drive... I would like it accessible from both linux (which it is) and from windows (reiserFS is, but I do'nt know about a raid0 reiserFS).
[15:44:57] <alex_joni> wonder what happens on 0x007 as a file permission
[15:45:04] <alex_joni> or even 117
[15:45:27] <alex_joni> does that mean the owner can't access it? yet everyone can?
[15:45:33] <cradek> yes
[15:45:35] <alex_joni> doesn't he maybe count as everyone?
[15:45:48] <cradek> that means everyone but the owner (and his group if 007)
[15:46:03] <alex_joni> oh..
[15:46:08] <A-L-P-H-A> does this make sense for an fstab?
[15:46:12] <A-L-P-H-A> /dev/md0/media/raid0reiserfsuser,umask=755 0 1
[15:46:20] <cradek> no
[15:46:41] <cradek> reiserfs is a normal unix filesystem right?
[15:46:46] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[15:46:51] <alex_joni> right
[15:46:53] <cradek> umask= makes no sense then
[15:47:18] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... I just patternmatched from the ntfs partition.
[15:47:20] <cradek> and user makes little sense if you mount it at boot like normal
[15:47:28] <A-L-P-H-A> /dev/md0/media/raid0reiserfsuser 0 1 #is what I got.
[15:47:35] <alex_joni> change user to auto
[15:47:47] <A-L-P-H-A> k
[15:48:24] <cradek> now follow jepler's advice
[15:49:57] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... I just umounted the raid0
[15:50:01] <A-L-P-H-A> and used sudo mount -a
[15:50:25] <A-L-P-H-A> do I have to manually set the chmod to raid0 everytime I boot?
[15:50:34] <A-L-P-H-A> chmod on raid0
[15:50:37] <alex_joni> no, only once
[15:50:46] <alex_joni> if you already did, then you don't anymore
[15:51:23] <alex_joni> better do chown -r user /media/raid if you have some files there already
[15:54:41] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[15:54:41] <A-L-P-H-A> See
http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-09-08#T15-54-41
[15:56:41] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/164385
[15:57:37] <A-L-P-H-A> nm
[15:57:39] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[16:02:10] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab. hopefully.
[16:05:09] <A-L-P-H-A> logger_aj, bookmark
[16:05:09] <A-L-P-H-A> See
http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-09-08#T16-05-09
[16:05:23] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/comp.g: make it possible to build and install components written in C with comp
[16:10:38] <A-L-P-H-A> well... windows can't read a reiserfs raid0 drive...
[16:10:53] <A-L-P-H-A> back to linux. :)
[16:18:58] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: no, it can't
[16:19:11] <A-L-P-H-A> it can read reiserfs drives... with help.
[16:19:13] <A-L-P-H-A> but just not raid0
[16:19:18] <A-L-P-H-A> or raid for that matter
[16:19:21] <alex_joni> it can read some ext3 (actually ext2, but ext3 can be mounted as ext2)
[16:19:32] <alex_joni> oh, probably so..
[16:19:44] <alex_joni> anyways.. safest is to have a small VFAT partition to send data through
[16:20:15] <A-L-P-H-A> guess I could have like a 10gig partition for all my data.
[16:20:23] <A-L-P-H-A> and just keep the other junk in the parimary...
[16:20:25] <A-L-P-H-A> or vmware.
[16:20:36] <A-L-P-H-A> and samba across
[16:20:51] <A-L-P-H-A> vmware + samba sounds like the best option to me.
[16:22:11] <alex_joni> not sure vmware can boot your installed xp
[16:22:20] <alex_joni> it will set up another virtual pc
[16:22:54] <A-L-P-H-A> argh.
[16:27:54] <A-L-P-H-A> lets see... what do I really need windows for?
[16:28:04] <alex_joni> games
[16:28:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Autocad, flash, games.
[16:28:16] <alex_joni> flash?
[16:28:26] <A-L-P-H-A> adobe flash...
[16:28:34] <alex_joni> * alex_joni takes a nap
[16:28:35] <A-L-P-H-A> you know, the annoying shit...
[16:28:35] <alex_joni> later
[16:28:39] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, thanks for the help
[16:28:48] <alex_joni> who me? what did I do?
[16:29:05] <A-L-P-H-A> somethings.
[16:29:12] <A-L-P-H-A> everyone thanks.
[16:29:14] <alex_joni> :P np
[17:21:00] <A-L-P-H-A> a nap after this lunch sounds like a great idea now.
[17:21:04] <A-L-P-H-A> just had pizza
[18:46:49] <robin_sz> thats better
[18:46:57] <robin_sz> poxy wireless connectivity
[19:00:55] <alex_joni> hello all
[19:02:38] <jepler> hi alex
[19:02:46] <alex_joni> hey jeff
[19:04:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: updates
[19:04:14] <jepler> if you want to do me a favor, read the documentation for 'comp' and let me know any suggestions you have
[19:04:24] <alex_joni> sure, hang on
[19:06:15] <alex_joni> now that I read it .. was wondering..
[19:06:37] <alex_joni> on ddt.comp
[19:06:56] <alex_joni> is it (period * 1e-9) to convert to secs ?
[19:07:04] <jepler> yes
[19:07:09] <alex_joni> ok
[19:07:49] <alex_joni> was also wondering about params :)
[19:07:54] <alex_joni> you know how I feel about that..
[19:08:17] <alex_joni> and I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to 'guide' people not to use them any more
[19:10:45] <jepler> One day I can throw a switch and make the parameters all become pins
[19:10:51] <jepler> just re-run 'comp'
[19:14:41] <alex_joni> ok, I like the documentation so far
[19:14:56] <alex_joni> only "convenience Macros" can be extended a bit
[19:15:04] <alex_joni> maybe some examples?
[19:15:22] <jepler> hm what kind of example do you mean?
[19:16:01] <alex_joni> from reading the stuff the first time, it's not quite clear
[19:16:38] <alex_joni> for example #define data
[19:16:44] <jepler> do you want me to show what it's defined to?
[19:16:48] <jepler> I don't want to do that
[19:16:58] <jepler> because it's up to the details of 'comp' exactly what it looks like
[19:17:08] <jepler> but 'data' is of whatever type you asked for in 'option data'
[19:17:08] <alex_joni> no, I thought about a small example of how to use it
[19:17:21] <alex_joni> so what is 'inst' ??
[19:18:27] <alex_joni> #define data ... If 'option data' is specified, this macro allows access to the instance data. This macro assumes that 'inst' is a pointer to the instance data.
[19:18:31] <jepler> it's the struct in which all the pins, params, and instance data reside
[19:18:52] <alex_joni> that sentence doesn't make me understand how to use it
[19:19:44] <jepler> what I want to say is 'start the function with FUNCTION(functionname), use these macros for the pins, paramers, and data, and just don't worry about it"
[19:19:53] <alex_joni> use how?
[19:20:15] <jepler> like in the example
[19:20:34] <jepler> so if you have 'pin blah' you can just write 'blah' instead of *(inst->blah)
[19:20:45] <alex_joni> oh
[19:20:56] <alex_joni> I already assumed all that before I got to the #define part
[19:21:14] <alex_joni> just by looking at the example
[19:21:26] <alex_joni> and when I got to the #define stuff I got confused
[19:21:59] <jepler> oh
[19:22:51] <alex_joni> mind if I try to change the lyx a bit?
[19:23:05] <jepler> sure if you have an idea of how to explain it better
[19:23:07] <alex_joni> if you don't like it, you can always change it back :)
[19:23:24] <jepler> yep
[19:31:04] <alex_joni> another thing
[19:31:11] <alex_joni> comp --install example.comp
[19:31:25] <alex_joni> isn't this: sudo comp --install example.comp (on installed systems) ?
[19:31:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is talking about setups without RIP
[19:32:19] <jepler> I also left the paths out of the RIP-based setups
[19:33:03] <alex_joni> right, so this will probably fail in both cases
[19:33:12] <alex_joni> in RIP there will be no such command :)
[19:33:21] <alex_joni> in installed it won't have rights to copy there
[19:33:23] <jepler> I don't think the documentation benefits from "sidebar: run things as root soimetimes, and with paths sometimes" next to every fucking command
[19:33:40] <alex_joni> I do agree on that
[19:33:49] <alex_joni> and I'm not sure what we should do about it
[19:34:17] <jepler> we should make people understand unix (so they know you have to 'sudo comp --install') and assume those who RIP know they RIP
[19:34:42] <jepler> so, basically, write what I wrote in all the "type a command" examples, except for the one place where we try to spell it out for the newbie
[19:35:15] <alex_joni> I guess this is for the advanced users
[19:35:30] <alex_joni> not anyone digging this far through HAL if they are newbs
[19:36:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: idea of explaining the convenience macros a bit clearer
[19:37:27] <jepler> * jepler tries to read it as a diff
[19:37:43] <alex_joni> that's a bit hard
[19:37:47] <alex_joni> let me paste what I wrote
[19:38:09] <alex_joni> Convenience Macros
[19:38:12] <alex_joni> Once you have a number of pins, parameters and functions, comp will generate the "C" program using a preprocessor. During this process, a proper data structure will be generated, which will hold all pins and parameters. All the pins and parameters names you defined above will be part of a structure, referenced by 'inst' (instance data). However, you don not need to adress them using formats like *(inst->name), but you can easily address them as 'name'. Thi
[19:47:45] <jepler> hm
[19:50:20] <cradek> if the goal of comp is to hide complexity, it seems to me that spelling out exactly the hidden complexity in the docs is counterproductive
[19:50:51] <cradek> maybe a nicer variety of examples would work better?
[19:51:09] <alex_joni> I'd drop the whole chapter on convenience macros
[19:51:10] <jepler> cradek: yeah that's what I'm struggling with
[19:51:45] <jepler> the documentation has to explain why the stuff after ";;" looks so different from a traditional HAL component when I claim it's just "C"
[19:54:45] <jepler> bbl
[19:59:59] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:00:02] <robin_sz> * robin_sz meeps
[20:00:05] <alex_joni> beew
[20:00:29] <robin_sz> are we well?
[20:00:33] <alex_joni> swell
[20:00:37] <robin_sz> good
[20:00:45] <robin_sz> I had a nice day too
[20:01:26] <robin_sz> a customer re-ordered a fabrication from us, one we did before, so all I had to do was run the cutting files again on the laser. job done.
[20:01:50] <robin_sz> nice when that happens.
[20:02:11] <robin_sz> then .. he phoned back and ordered another
[20:02:18] <robin_sz> even better :)
[20:04:01] <robin_sz> and then ... they phoned back and increased it to 4 :)
[20:04:12] <alex_joni> even better :)
[20:04:55] <robin_sz> yip. these are "fairly big" fabrications, takes a guy 2.5 days to weld them
[20:10:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni yawns
[20:14:41] <robin_sz> want piccies?
[20:15:47] <alex_joni> wot's that?
[20:16:34] <robin_sz> pictures
[20:17:12] <alex_joni> sure
[20:17:22] <robin_sz> just uploading ...
[20:18:02] <robin_sz> I think its 4 of these ...
http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/fabs/P1001478.jpg
[20:18:48] <alex_joni> nice, but not that much welding :)
[20:18:56] <alex_joni> lots of cutting though :)
[20:20:06] <alex_joni> the blue one is your bike?
[20:20:11] <robin_sz> mmm?
[20:20:14] <robin_sz> blue one?
[20:20:45] <alex_joni> E502 MLB
[20:20:53] <robin_sz> hell no
[20:21:07] <alex_joni> looks plain
[20:21:38] <robin_sz> yeah ... horrible old Honda, belonging to one of the welders
[20:23:19] <robin_sz> http://www.redpoint.org.uk/photos/upload/fabs/P1001477.jpg is the thing I was considering a robot for
[20:23:37] <robin_sz> the "bin" part of it anyway
[20:24:39] <alex_joni> right, would work
[21:24:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/comp.g:
[21:24:28] <CIA-8> When turning C identifiers into HAL identifiers, strip off the trailing
[21:24:28] <CIA-8> underscore. In this way, it is possible to have a HAL pin called 'sin' or
[21:24:28] <CIA-8> 'int' while not interfering with use of the function 'sin()' or the type 'int'.
[21:25:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/comp.lyx: add examples, re-word macros section once more
[21:25:24] <jepler> have a good afternoon all
[21:25:29] <jepler> or whatever time of day it is in your home
[21:26:16] <alex_joni> c ya
[21:34:09] <danex> hello alex_joni
[21:34:14] <alex_joni> hello
[21:34:26] <danex> How was your day?
[21:34:33] <alex_joni> ok..
[21:35:05] <danex> Mine was spent in Safety Meetings
[21:36:04] <danex> Could not get to the project machine
[21:37:11] <danex> Do companies in Europe have anual Safety Classes / meetings?
[21:37:26] <danex> annual
[21:37:36] <alex_joni> our doesn't
[21:38:16] <danex> Most in the US must have * hours per year or more
[21:38:23] <danex> 8
[21:46:55] <robin_sz> safety cannot be taught in my opinion
[21:47:21] <robin_sz> stupid people have accidents, no amount of telling them about safety can prevent that
[21:49:03] <danex> It is my belief that when the conditions for an accident occur ,it will, the conditions are caused by people and not always the one who is hurt
[21:57:08] <robin_sz> shrug.
[21:57:38] <robin_sz> at the end of any safety class, there is always one important point. and this is the one that counts. nothing else.
[21:57:43] <robin_sz> you know what it is?
[21:58:08] <danex> In any case we must follow the rules of the powers that be
[21:58:22] <robin_sz> this is where the employee signs to say he attended and understood what he was told
[21:58:44] <danex> But do they understand?
[21:58:52] <robin_sz> who knows
[21:58:56] <robin_sz> they sign ...
[21:58:59] <danex> I doubt it
[21:59:17] <robin_sz> even if they understand, thye usually ignore most of it
[21:59:28] <danex> TRUE
[22:04:59] <danex> Time to go watch High School Football, Good night all
[22:05:08] <danex> * danex is away: Away at the moment
[22:23:44] <alex_joni> phew.. seems I finished
[22:29:59] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/task/ (emccanon.cc emctask.cc emctaskmain.cc taskintf.cc): (log message trimmed)
[22:29:59] <CIA-8> Fixed bug #1384883 - optional stop is not optional
[22:29:59] <CIA-8> A new NML message was added (EMC_TASK_PLAN_SET_OPTIONAL_STOP).
[22:29:59] <CIA-8> The default value is On (any M1 will pause) to match previous behaviour.
[22:29:59] <CIA-8> The command to change the value may be sent at any time,
[22:30:00] <CIA-8> even during a program run.
[22:30:04] <CIA-8> Canon has 2 new functions: SET_OPTIONAL_STOP and GET_OPTIONAL_STOP,
[22:30:06] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/canterp/canterp.cc: (log message trimmed)
[22:30:08] <CIA-8> Fixed bug #1384883 - optional stop is not optional
[22:30:10] <CIA-8> A new NML message was added (EMC_TASK_PLAN_SET_OPTIONAL_STOP).
[22:30:12] <CIA-8> The default value is On (any M1 will pause) to match previous behaviour.
[22:30:14] <CIA-8> The command to change the value may be sent at any time,
[22:30:16] <CIA-8> even during a program run.
[22:30:18] <CIA-8> Canon has 2 new functions: SET_OPTIONAL_STOP and GET_OPTIONAL_STOP,
[22:30:20] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/ (halui.vcp halvcp.hal): (log message trimmed)
[22:30:22] <CIA-8> Fixed bug #1384883 - optional stop is not optional
[22:30:24] <CIA-8> A new NML message was added (EMC_TASK_PLAN_SET_OPTIONAL_STOP).
[22:30:26] <CIA-8> The default value is On (any M1 will pause) to match previous behaviour.
[22:30:28] <CIA-8> The command to change the value may be sent at any time,
[22:30:32] <CIA-8> even during a program run.
[22:30:34] <CIA-8> Canon has 2 new functions: SET_OPTIONAL_STOP and GET_OPTIONAL_STOP,
[22:30:36] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/nml_intf/ (canon.hh emc.cc emc.hh): (log message trimmed)
[22:30:38] <CIA-8> Fixed bug #1384883 - optional stop is not optional
[22:30:40] <CIA-8> A new NML message was added (EMC_TASK_PLAN_SET_OPTIONAL_STOP).
[22:30:42] <CIA-8> The default value is On (any M1 will pause) to match previous behaviour.
[22:30:44] <CIA-8> The command to change the value may be sent at any time,
[22:30:48] <CIA-8> even during a program run.
[22:30:50] <CIA-8> Canon has 2 new functions: SET_OPTIONAL_STOP and GET_OPTIONAL_STOP,
[22:30:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/halui.cc: (log message trimmed)
[22:30:54] <CIA-8> Fixed bug #1384883 - optional stop is not optional
[22:30:56] <CIA-8> A new NML message was added (EMC_TASK_PLAN_SET_OPTIONAL_STOP).
[22:30:58] <CIA-8> The default value is On (any M1 will pause) to match previous behaviour.
[22:31:00] <CIA-8> The command to change the value may be sent at any time,
[22:31:04] <CIA-8> (2 lines omitted)
[22:33:07] <alex_joni> guess there's no-one around to test?
[22:41:20] <alex_joni> well then.. I guess I'll head to bed, and read tomorrow about it :)
[22:41:21] <alex_joni> night all
[23:15:35] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: info about optional stop
[23:35:42] <ubuntu_guest> logger_aj: bookmark
[23:35:42] <ubuntu_guest> See
http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-09-08#T23-35-42
