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[00:01:02] <rayh> Under Unix, the indicator is drawn with a sunken relief and a special color. Under Windows, the indicator is drawn with a check mark inside. If the checkbutton is not selected, then the indicator is drawn with a deselected appearance, and the associated variable is set to a different value (typically 0). Under Unix, the indicator is drawn with a raised relief and no special color. Under Windows, the indicator is drawn without a check mark inside.
[00:02:07] <rayh> whatever that means.
[00:02:22] <alex_joni> rayh: ty
[00:02:34] <SWPadnos> err - they look different on Unix vs Windows (so what's new?)
[00:02:37] <Jymmm> rayh: where did you find that?
[00:02:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni isn't quite sure where to put the optional stop check button on tkemc
[00:02:50] <alex_joni> anyone has any idea?
[00:03:10] <Jymmm> alex_joni: 4th page, offscreen by 100 pixels
[00:03:20] <alex_joni> no-one?
[00:03:40] <SWPadnos> how about a button along with the program control buttons
[00:03:50] <SWPadnos> near the g-code window
[00:03:59] <rayh> There is an html version of tcl/tk man pages.
[00:04:13] <Jymmm> rayh ty
[00:04:14] <rayh> I copy it to my machine so don't have a link but will look.
[00:04:25] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: good idea
[00:04:29] <Jymmm> rayh dont worry about it.
[00:04:48] <SWPadnos> thanks. I was thinking that since it controls an execution option of the program ...
[00:05:22] <Jymmm> rayh: I meant to ask you, have you considered getting a datacard from one of the cellphone carriers in your area? The service is like $60-$85/mo (128K)
[00:05:39] <SWPadnos> you're assuming cell phones work at his house ;)
[00:05:58] <rayh> I don't get cellphone in my area
[00:06:12] <Jymmm> rayh k
[00:06:18] <SWPadnos> I'm sure that lowers your property value ;)
[00:06:18] <rayh> http://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.4/
[00:06:27] <rayh> I wish I did.
[00:06:34] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:06:43] <SWPadnos> tazes killing you these days?
[00:06:45] <SWPadnos> taxes
[00:06:49] <rayh> Right. It might raise it some also.
[00:07:00] <SWPadnos> yeah
[00:07:04] <rayh> yep.
[00:07:09] <SWPadnos> for city folk anyway
[00:07:35] <Jymmm> Is emc written in C or c++ ?
[00:07:40] <SWPadnos> yes
[00:07:45] <Jymmm> primarily
[00:07:51] <SWPadnos> emc or emc2?
[00:07:56] <Jymmm> both
[00:08:12] <SWPadnos> I think the ratio may be different, but they're both primarily C
[00:08:18] <Jymmm> k
[00:08:25] <SWPadnos> C++ is used (horribly) in NML and some other places
[00:08:38] <Jymmm> and Tcl/Tk is the GUI aspect of it?
[00:09:08] <alex_joni> it's actually C disguised as C++
[00:09:09] <SWPadnos> tcl/tk is one GUI aspect, probably due primarily to a fairly complete customized wish shell with emc-related commands
[00:09:20] <alex_joni> or was that disgusted?
[00:09:32] <rayh> The Axis gui is written in python with the tk tool kit.
[00:09:45] <SWPadnos> I suspect that there are several places where real C++ could help, but it's too much of a PITA to convince anyone to do the work ;)
[00:09:58] <rayh> http://www.tcl.tk/man/ will get you a tar file of the whole manual.
[00:10:05] <SWPadnos> and then there are UIs like xemc and yemc that are C, I believe
[00:10:10] <alex_joni> there is keystick (written in C), likewise xemc
[00:10:16] <alex_joni> and usrmot
[00:10:21] <Jymmm> I'm thinking about learning C to create some GUI apps, but I've never done any GUI dev before. So not quite sure where to start.
[00:10:35] <alex_joni> Jymmm: get a good toolkit
[00:10:44] <SWPadnos> right, and the telnet cloen Eric Johnson (?) did recently
[00:10:52] <SWPadnos> clone
[00:11:18] <SWPadnos> if you want to *program* GUIs, get gtk or qt, and learn the libraries
[00:11:36] <SWPadnos> if you want to learn to *develop* GUis, get familiar with one or more of the more RAD-like tools
[00:11:52] <SWPadnos> such as KDevelop for KDE or Glade(?) for Gnome
[00:11:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/sim/axis.ini: support for linear units specified as words. use it in inifile.
[00:12:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: support for linear units specified as words. use it in inifile.
[00:13:03] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, for the difference, remember back to the early days of BC++ Builder, when you could write MFC apps or use the RAD GUI tools in VB/VC/BCB
[00:14:56] <alex_joni> jepler: thanks
[00:15:47] <skunkworks> logger_aj: bookmark
[00:15:47] <skunkworks> See
http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-09-26#T00-15-47
[00:16:03] <skunkworks> alex_joni: isn't it past your bedtime?
[00:16:15] <SWPadnos> shhh - you'll wake him
[00:16:22] <jepler> alex_joni: I saw the same tool size thing you mentioned earlier, but I won't fix it until we fix the way tool sizes are kept through all the layers from gcode through to nml...
[00:16:32] <jepler> alex_joni: without that I'm really not sure what the "fix" would be
[00:16:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: My C++ is ***WAY*** older than that... Try Turbo C++ under DO 6.xx days.
[00:16:48] <Jymmm> s/DO/DOS/
[00:17:06] <SWPadnos> I was only pointing out the difference between writing C/C++ code for GUIs and using available tools to create GUIs
[00:17:09] <skunkworks> jymmm: I have those 24 disks :)
[00:17:23] <SWPadnos> the "Programmer's Weightlifting Pack" ;)
[00:17:24] <Jymmm> skunkworks: Ha! I have the discs AND the book!
[00:17:34] <SWPadnos> I have all the books :)
[00:17:45] <alex_joni> jepler: I understand, just wanted to let you know
[00:17:53] <Jymmm> I do have Borland C++, but I think it's like v3 amybe v4
[00:18:25] <Jymmm> alex_joni: toolkit... Like I know what that truely means =)
[00:18:42] <jepler> alex_joni: I still can't turn off "optional stop" .. it always stops on an M1
[00:18:51] <Jymmm> gtk wx glade
[00:19:25] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I still have Turbo Pascal around here somewhere.
[00:19:47] <SWPadnos> it's just that you can write GUI code using C/C++ ( myButton = new LibraryButtonTypeWithVeryLongName(Xpos, YPos, XSize, Ysize, faceColor, ImagePointer, PressCallback * .....) )
[00:20:09] <SWPadnos> or you can drage a button onto a canvas and have the widget creation code written for you ;)
[00:20:14] <SWPadnos> drag
[00:20:22] <SWPadnos> there are advantages to either
[00:20:51] <A-L-P-H-A> got icewm working
[00:21:01] <A-L-P-H-A> doesn't look pretty at all. :(
[00:21:03] <Jymmm> SWPadnos From what I understand Glade allows you to convert your drag-n-drop gui in xml format into your project.
[00:21:09] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: who said it's pretty?
[00:21:29] <A-L-P-H-A> ooh... just the default theme was ugly
[00:21:37] <A-L-P-H-A> aqua-blue isn't bad.
[00:22:05] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... here's an issue I see right now...
[00:22:06] <Jymmm> poof! who was that masked man
[00:22:38] <A-L-P-H-A> I have my AGP monitor running at some retarded frequency... and it's causing waves/ripples...
[00:22:39] <A-L-P-H-A> odd
[00:24:09] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Are these what you were talking about?
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/7184/guitool.html
[00:25:26] <jepler> icewm isn't supposed to be pretty
[00:25:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos From what I understand Glade allows you to convert your drag-n-drop gui in xml format into your project.
[00:25:44] <alex_joni> Jymmm: not quite
[00:25:54] <alex_joni> Jymmm: glade is..
[00:26:00] <SWPadnos> stupid mozilla crash
[00:26:28] <SWPadnos> it saves the layouts in XML, but I think it needs a "window creator" library to read in the info at runtime
[00:26:38] <SWPadnos> I think it's similar to a windows resource file
[00:28:54] <jepler> at least historically, glade would also generate "C" code
[00:29:05] <jepler> I don't know whether the current state of the art is to generate "C" code or parse the xml code at runtime
[00:29:10] <SWPadnos> sure - it probably does that too
[00:29:39] <SWPadnos> it isn't necessarily XML at runtime - it would more likely be a binary data file of somesort
[00:30:53] <alex_joni> how does this look?
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/tkemc.png
[00:30:55] <fenn> you need libglade to parse an XML file at runtime
[00:32:01] <SWPadnos> hmmm. looking at it, maybe under the abort button would be better
[00:32:18] <SWPadnos> shrink abort a bit
[00:32:28] <alex_joni> wouldn't wanna do that
[00:32:39] <alex_joni> abort needs to stay big ;)
[00:32:47] <SWPadnos> isn't abort also ESC? that isn't estop
[00:33:05] <alex_joni> indeed
[00:33:06] <SWPadnos> or stop, for that matter ;)
[00:33:20] <alex_joni> rayh: any oppinions?
[00:34:20] <alex_joni> getting late over here.. I'm heading to bed
[00:34:32] <alex_joni> I'll check it in, whoever wants can change it or revert it :)
[00:35:50] <SWPadnos> heh - that's the spirit ;)
[00:36:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Do you actively do any C gui dev ?
[00:36:15] <jepler> alex_joni: ah, I've found the problem with "optional stop"
[00:36:29] <Jymmm> or anyone for that matter?
[00:36:29] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I stop X and get straight to the terminal? I want to install new video drivers, as the current nvidia drivers are causing an issue. I could log into another via alt-control-f1 or f2, and get into a term that way, but Xorg is still running.
[00:36:33] <jepler> .. maybe
[00:36:34] <alex_joni> jepler: really?
[00:36:34] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, not much these days
[00:36:57] <SWPadnos> A-L-P-H-A, init 1 from a terminal should do it
[00:37:11] <jepler> alex_joni: well it seems to matter how the "switch" is at the program start, not during the program
[00:37:14] <jepler> I'm not 100% sure yet
[00:37:17] <SWPadnos> I'm not positive that leaves you with networking though
[00:37:24] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A CTRL+ALT+BKSP ?
[00:37:33] <jepler> if it's off at the start of my program it plans all 420 movements without pause
[00:37:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: that just restarts xorg.
[00:37:38] <SWPadnos> that doesn't work - init respawns GDM
[00:37:40] <jepler> if it's on, it plans only about 50, and stops at the m1
[00:38:04] <SWPadnos> however, you should be able to install a new driver, set up the config files, then CTL-ALT-BKSP to change to the new driver
[00:38:06] <jepler> if I change it after the first m1 pause it still pauses at the next one
[00:38:27] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A SWPadnos : Ah, i have that disabled, I like my terminal login (and it aint any faster loggin in and going x either way)
[00:38:32] <jepler> bbl
[00:38:44] <SWPadnos> see you Feff
[00:38:46] <SWPadnos> Jeff
[00:38:49] <SWPadnos> damn
[00:38:56] <alpha-lappy> init 1 worked!
[00:38:59] <alpha-lappy> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet
[00:39:00] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, well of course, that's the easy way
[00:39:17] <SWPadnos> now you may have no connectivity though
[00:39:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Heh, NOW you tell him =)
[00:39:35] <alex_joni> jepler: odd
[00:39:44] <SWPadnos> if that's the case (and you need net access), you should be able to run /etc/init.d/networking start
[00:39:48] <Jymmm> I also have FB enabled too, gawd I love that.
[00:40:16] <SWPadnos> yeah. I'd love to see it on my high-res panel
[00:40:25] <SWPadnos> but I'd need a magnifier to read the text
[00:40:47] <Jymmm> you can adj to whatever size you like
[00:40:51] <alpha-lappy> okay this sucks ass...
[00:40:59] <alpha-lappy> I did an init 1, and it won't allow me to do dink
[00:41:03] <fenn> do init 3
[00:41:09] <SWPadnos> well, at 204 PPI, you need a lot of pixels for readable text ;)
[00:41:11] <alpha-lappy> init 3?
[00:41:13] <alpha-lappy> I'll try that
[00:41:19] <SWPadnos> 3 is full GUI/networking
[00:41:20] <fenn> init is a crappy way to turn off X
[00:41:27] <alex_joni> fenn: ubuntu has 2 for full X
[00:41:34] <fenn> just do /etc/init.d/gdm stop or /etc/init.d/kdm stop
[00:41:42] <SWPadnos> 2 and 3 are identical on most Debian systems, I think
[00:41:43] <alex_joni> unlike normal distros which have 5
[00:41:44] <fenn> alex_joni: well that's fucking stupid
[00:41:48] <alex_joni> fenn: indeed
[00:42:11] <alpha-lappy> the init.d worked!
[00:42:20] <alex_joni> id:2:initdefault:
[00:42:43] <alpha-lappy> :'(
[00:42:55] <alpha-lappy> nvidia drivers says it can't compile dink for me.
[00:43:01] <alpha-lappy> arrrrrrgh
[00:43:10] <fenn> get the kernel source and headers
[00:43:32] <alpha-lappy> apt-get install kernel-source kernel-header ?
[00:43:36] <alex_joni> apt-get install linux-headers
[00:43:37] <fenn> * fenn shrugs
[00:43:49] <alex_joni> but you probably want the ones for your kernel
[00:44:09] <alex_joni> so on dapper something like linux-headers-2.6.15-27 I think
[00:44:22] <alex_joni> check which package you have: dpkg -l | grep linux-image
[00:45:04] <alpha-lappy> 17-9 on edgy
[00:45:14] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/emcsh.cc: add hooks for setting optional_stop
[00:46:56] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: optional stop button
[00:47:16] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/NEWS: added literal UNITS
[00:49:33] <cradek> holy cow alex, don't you have work tomorrow?
[00:49:58] <alex_joni> who me?
[00:50:06] <cradek> or are you up early?
[00:50:27] <alex_joni> lol.. my alarm usually goes off at 8:30 ;)
[00:51:11] <alex_joni> and even then I find it hard to wake up :P
[00:51:34] <alex_joni> anyways.. I should be getting some sleep now
[00:51:38] <alex_joni> good night all
[00:51:48] <cradek> goodnight
[00:52:26] <alpha-lappy> omg omg omg... it's building!
[00:52:37] <alpha-lappy> nm
[00:52:39] <alpha-lappy> :(
[00:52:44] <Jymmm> SWPadnos
http://microwindows.censoft.com/ScreenShots.html
[00:52:58] <alpha-lappy> X.Org SDK/development stuff as well
[00:53:00] <alpha-lappy> wtf.
[00:53:02] <alex_joni> jepler: jfyi .. I just tried optional stop on tkemc with the gridprobe, and it works as I'd expect it to
[00:53:32] <jepler> alex_joni: maybe my expectation is bad
[00:53:38] <jepler> alex_joni: let's talk about it another day
[00:53:45] <alex_joni> jepler: ok, no problem ;)
[00:54:08] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that's so.. win2.x style
[00:55:27] <A-L-P-H-A> that wasn't as painful as I expected
[00:59:03] <Jymmm> alex_joni: it's more CE style
[00:59:13] <Jymmm> http://microwindows.censoft.com/
[00:59:17] <SWPadnos> Crappy Edition
[01:01:11] <Jymmm> you wanna talk OLD style...
http://www.tutok.sk/fastgl/screens.htm
[01:03:07] <A-L-P-H-A> I actually shuddered, when I change iceWM theme to winXP new.
[01:03:14] <A-L-P-H-A> it looks practically identical.
[01:05:39] <A-L-P-H-A> whois the iceWM guru in here?
[01:06:01] <SWPadnos> cradek, I think
[01:06:10] <A-L-P-H-A> he's not around right now is he?
[01:06:14] <cradek> no
[01:06:15] <SWPadnos> doesn't seem to be
[01:06:17] <cradek> darnit
[01:06:22] <cradek> I always mess that up
[01:06:27] <SWPadnos> s/doesn't/didn't/
[01:06:31] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: ... hey! :) how do I get my gnome stuff over to iceWM?
[01:06:43] <cradek> what do you mean?
[01:06:44] <A-L-P-H-A> it's running, and I know I can run gnome stuff, as I'm using xchat-gnome right now
[01:06:49] <A-L-P-H-A> err, the menus.
[01:06:53] <SWPadnos> even I know that one - follow the instructions Alex linked to (on cradek's site)
[01:06:53] <A-L-P-H-A> the menus are missing my launchers.
[01:07:09] <A-L-P-H-A> good thing I bookmarked it
[01:07:13] <cradek> you have to decide whether to run gnome or not
[01:07:36] <cradek> running a nonstandard window manager WITH gnome is not for the uninitiated
[01:07:36] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: I honestly don't know what that would mean as a consequence.
[01:07:50] <cradek> but if you want to try it, those instructions worked on breezy
[01:08:42] <A-L-P-H-A> right now, it automagically starts iceWM already... as I made that the default session with the login manager with ubuntu edgy
[01:08:55] <cradek> right but there's no gnome
[01:09:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos alex_joni:
http://web.tiscali.it/morello/MGui/
[01:09:26] <A-L-P-H-A> how do I check if gnome is running? I did a /etc/init.d/gdk -stop and it stopped X.
[01:09:38] <cradek> it's hard to know which advice to give you since I don't understand what you want (and it sounds like maybe you don't either)
[01:09:58] <cradek> if gnome were running you'd have an active desktop and launchers and stuff
[01:09:59] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: my objective right now, is to get the launch icons into the start button.
[01:10:04] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, last update: Aug 28, 2003
[01:10:15] <cradek> the start button works different, you edit a file to put stuff there.
[01:10:19] <cradek> differentLY
[01:10:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Yeah, I saw that. Also saw that it has a DOS GUI too (that I like).
[01:10:45] <cradek> I think
[01:10:46] <A-L-P-H-A> cradek: ahh... so I'd have to put them all in there manually? or is there some nice app that does that for me already?
[01:10:56] <cradek> I'm not sure if the ubuntu folks did a magic thing or not
[01:11:10] <cradek> but for a normal icewm desktop you configure the WM by editing its files
[01:11:14] <cradek> ~/.icewm/*
[01:11:33] <A-L-P-H-A> I thought I saw a icewm - gnome thing in the packages... I'm looking again.
[01:11:50] <cradek> I'm not real clear on what that does
[01:12:17] <cradek> with modern gnomes I use the built-in window manager and set a few preferences to make it more comfortable
[01:12:25] <cradek> I don't see much lacking in their WM anymore
[01:12:56] <cradek> the gnome in dapper is much better than breezy
[01:13:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm using edgy.
[01:13:12] <cradek> the WM works better and it starts/exits faster
[01:13:22] <cradek> I don't know anything about edgy but surely it's no worse than dapper
[01:13:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm being difficult... :| and I'm paying for it now.
[01:13:33] <cradek> why did you want to stop using gnome?
[01:14:58] <A-L-P-H-A> umm... gnome-terminal was broken.
[01:14:59] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: This looks interesting...
http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/
[01:15:11] <A-L-P-H-A> and no one knew how to fix it, nor did I... so I decided to experiment.
[01:15:16] <A-L-P-H-A> and iceWM is fast.
[01:15:19] <A-L-P-H-A> very fast.
[01:15:28] <cradek> so don't use gnome-terminal
[01:15:34] <cradek> use xterm, or rxvt-unicode
[01:15:39] <cradek> that has nothing to do with the window manager
[01:15:40] <SWPadnos> what's the problem with it, in any case?
[01:15:47] <cradek> another good question
[01:15:53] <A-L-P-H-A> there's a bug
[01:15:54] <A-L-P-H-A> sec
[01:16:05] <cradek> I think gnome-terminal is the biggest improvement in dapper's gnome
[01:16:18] <cradek> it used to be really bad IMO.
[01:16:28] <A-L-P-H-A> well, it's borked in my setup
[01:16:29] <cradek> broken terminal emulation and molasses-like scrolling
[01:16:41] <cradek> what's wrong with it?
[01:16:46] <cradek> maybe they broke it in edgy
[01:17:08] <cradek> It offers a configuration API in three basic languages: C, Lua and LED.
[01:17:15] <cradek> C, who and what now?
[01:17:34] <Jymmm> cradek: ?
[01:17:58] <cradek> IUP's supported languages (I've never heard of 2/3 of them)
[01:17:59] <Jymmm> cradek: I'm looking to learn gui C dev
[01:18:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm looking for my error message... and now
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> alpha@alpha-desktop:~$ gnome-terminal
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> The program 'gnome-terminal' received an X Window System error.
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> This probably reflects a bug in the program.
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> The error was 'BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)'.
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> (Details: serial 98 error_code 2 request_code 78 minor_code 0)
[01:18:35] <A-L-P-H-A> (Note to programmers: normally, X errors are reported asynchronously;
[01:18:37] <A-L-P-H-A> that is, you will receive the error a while after causing it.
[01:18:37] <cradek> Jymmm: don't like gtk?
[01:18:39] <A-L-P-H-A> To debug your program, run it with the --sync command line
[01:18:41] <A-L-P-H-A> option to change this behavior. You can then get a meaningful
[01:18:45] <A-L-P-H-A> backtrace from your debugger if you break on the gdk_x_error() function.)
[01:19:01] <cradek> huh
[01:19:08] <A-L-P-H-A> just borked on this system... not my laptop, or emc machine.
[01:19:10] <A-L-P-H-A> those all work fine.
[01:19:17] <Jymmm> cradek: I know NOTHING of GUI dev.
[01:19:19] <A-L-P-H-A> nor on my PVR
[01:19:19] <skunkworks> this doesn't look too bad at all - It would be my first surface mount componant
http://www.analog.com/UploadedFiles/Data_Sheets/460727771AD2S1200_0.pdf
[01:20:04] <skunkworks> I would just have to figure out what my resolvers are ratio wise from primary to secondary
[01:20:24] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: request 78 is CreateColormap - what screen depth do you have?
[01:20:34] <cradek> A-L-P-H-A: oh are you using Xgl?
[01:21:36] <A-L-P-H-A> 24bit
[01:21:56] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't think I'm running xgl.
[01:21:57] <A-L-P-H-A> sec
[01:22:32] <Jymmm> cradek: But since you asked...
http://www.tecgraf.puc-rio.br/iup/en/toolkits.html
[01:22:33] <cradek> did you set gnome-terminal to have a bitmap or transparent background or something else out of the ordinary?
[01:22:35] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/182473 that's my xorg.conf file.
[01:22:54] <cradek> Depth 252644878
[01:22:58] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't think so, or remember.
[01:22:59] <cradek> uhhhh
[01:23:04] <cradek> Depth 256
[01:23:07] <cradek> uhhhhhhh
[01:23:23] <cradek> that doesn't seem quite right.
[01:23:25] <A-L-P-H-A> I didn't set those... that was nvidia's fault.
[01:23:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I'll change those immediately.
[01:23:34] <cradek> heh
[01:23:40] <cradek> I bet that will fix it
[01:24:33] <A-L-P-H-A> brb
[01:24:59] <cradek> I wonder how it came up with 252644878...
[01:25:20] <skunkworks> base 1.778273 instead of base 2
[01:25:36] <alpha-lappy> absolutely no clue... bug?
[01:25:44] <jepler> Is FF0 typically used at all? I can't imagine much value in adding a multiple of the commanded position to the servo voltage...
[01:25:52] <SWPadnos> truncation of a 64-bit evaluation of a 256-bit depth?
[01:25:58] <cradek> jepler: no, I think it's totally useless
[01:26:20] <SWPadnos> I suspect JonE has used it
[01:26:21] <cradek> jepler: my understanding is FF1 and FF2 are the useful ones
[01:26:27] <jmkasunich> unless the axis is pushing against a spring, and you are running in torque mode
[01:26:36] <jepler> is FF2 implemented in emc2 yet?
[01:26:38] <cradek> hi jmk!
[01:26:41] <jmkasunich> hi
[01:26:41] <cradek> jepler: no
[01:27:04] <jmkasunich> its not?
[01:27:11] <cradek> I didn't think so
[01:27:17] <jmkasunich> (haven't looked a the PID code in ages)
[01:27:31] <alpha-lappy> nope, didn't fix it
[01:27:32] <jmkasunich> it shouldn't be that hard to add, if theres a need for it
[01:27:38] <cradek> no ff2
[01:27:41] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/ini_config.lyx: markup improvements. other updates.
[01:27:51] <jepler> I have no idea if it's needed or not
[01:27:53] <cradek> alpha-lappy: you have all three set to 24?
[01:28:09] <cradek> darn that was so obvious a problem I figured it would fix it
[01:29:13] <cradek> jepler: same here, but I would have used it on my lathe if it were there
[01:29:31] <jmkasunich> want me to add it?
[01:29:44] <jepler> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/gnome-terminal/+bug/58232
[01:29:46] <cradek> jepler: I remember thinking I should try some ff2 gain to zero the error during the accel/decel
[01:30:09] <cradek> jmkasunich: I know JonE pined for it too, it might be nice if it's an easy thing
[01:30:10] <skunkworks> I think I remeber jonE really wanting it (ff2)
[01:30:39] <jmkasunich> looking at the code now, we'll see how messy it is
[01:31:15] <cradek> jepler: the reporter also has nvidia
[01:31:27] <cradek> alpha-lappy: pastebin your new X config?
[01:31:32] <jepler> looks like someone else has run into this gnome-terminal problem but they don't knwo what it's about yet...
[01:31:38] <jepler> alpha-lappy: cradek: ^^^
[01:31:56] <cradek> I saw
[01:31:58] <alpha-lappy> sec
[01:32:01] <cradek> I mean the one who filed that bug also has nvidia
[01:32:09] <cradek> like alpha does
[01:32:57] <jepler> oh sorry
[01:33:03] <jepler> yeah it's also an nvidia system
[01:33:26] <alpha-lappy> pasetbin.ca/182482
[01:33:51] <Jymmm> cradek: Oh, to answer your question; I think gtk is C++, not C.
[01:34:13] <jmkasunich> GTK is C
[01:34:16] <jepler> GTK is C
[01:34:22] <cradek> I hear GTK is C
[01:34:24] <jmkasunich> thats why I used it for halscope, I don't do C++
[01:34:51] <cradek> alpha-lappy: just for fun, try setting everything to depth 16
[01:34:56] <alpha-lappy> k
[01:35:07] <SWPadnos> so GTK is C then
[01:35:13] <cradek> so I hear
[01:35:27] <SWPadnos> and GTK+- is C++?
[01:35:37] <jepler> and pygtk is python
[01:35:46] <SWPadnos> and scheme is scheme
[01:35:50] <jmkasunich> GTK has bindings for several languages
[01:36:05] <jmkasunich> but the "least common denominator" is C
[01:36:14] <cradek> (1+ lispgtk)
[01:36:31] <jepler> a badger is not a hummingbird
[01:36:36] <jepler> what was the question again?
[01:36:42] <alpha-lappy> nada.
[01:36:43] <cradek> I don't remember
[01:36:43] <SWPadnos> mushroom! mushroom!
[01:37:07] <Jymmm> jepler: How much wood can a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
[01:37:23] <cradek> alpha-lappy: rxvt-unicode is a very nice terminal emulator
[01:37:35] <SWPadnos> a woodchuck would chuck as much wood as a woodchuck could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood.
[01:37:55] <SWPadnos> (in case you really wnated to know)
[01:37:57] <cradek> alpha-lappy: I suspect there's an interaction between gnome-terminal and the nvidia driver
[01:37:57] <SWPadnos> wanted
[01:38:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'll remember that the next time I'm a contestant on Jeopardy!
[01:38:38] <SWPadnos> remember to answer in the form of a question
[01:38:48] <alpha-lappy> cradek: doesn't look that much different than xterm
[01:38:57] <alpha-lappy> besides a scroll bar... which is nice
[01:39:07] <Jymmm> SWPadnos I'll even give alex_joni a noogy on your behalf =)
[01:39:13] <SWPadnos> ok
[01:39:18] <Jymmm> s/_joni/trebeck/
[01:39:19] <cradek> xterm jumpscrolling broke 5-10 years ago but rxvt-unicode works right
[01:39:25] <cradek> that's its sole advantage afaic
[01:40:17] <jepler> cradek: don't forget that rxvt-unicode is scriptable in perl!
[01:40:26] <cradek> uh roight
[01:40:36] <jepler> (I am actually a bit excited about that, because I was able to get clickable hyperlinks which is the one feature from gnome-terminal I wanted)
[01:40:49] <jepler> it also has an extremely-fragile "one process, many terminals" mode
[01:41:04] <cradek> cool that does sound nice
[01:41:11] <cradek> the former I mean
[01:41:28] <cradek> jepler: thanks for your docs work
[01:41:34] <cradek> I know how dry that is
[01:41:40] <jepler> thanks
[01:41:40] <jmkasunich> yeah, thanks!
[01:42:04] <jepler> I do what I can, and I'm so incompetent at writing code ...
[01:42:13] <jmkasunich> lol
[01:42:14] <cradek> uh roight
[01:42:46] <skunkworks> thats what everyone says ;)
[01:43:15] <cradek> I swear I've even seen you write a line of code correctly the first time
[01:43:34] <cradek> if we could all only say the same
[01:43:56] <jmkasunich> I'm sure I wrote at least one line that worked the first time
[01:44:08] <cradek> jmkasunich: comments don't count
[01:44:13] <jmkasunich> segfaulted the second time tho...
[01:44:17] <jepler> hah
[01:44:49] <jepler> well I just said that to roll out the compliments
[01:45:04] <jmkasunich> dang, PID has a lot of parameters
[01:45:11] <cradek> only if you can call these compliments did it work
[01:46:39] <cradek> /* done */
[01:46:40] <cradek> }
[01:46:45] <cradek> * cradek snickers
[01:48:11] <SWPadnos> this one always worked the first time: 10 PRINT "THIS STORE SUCKS" : GOTO 10
[01:48:23] <jmkasunich> blast from the past
[01:48:31] <jmkasunich> I wrote that on the TRS-80
[01:48:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[01:48:45] <SWPadnos> model 1, model 2, model 3, or CoCo?
[01:48:54] <SWPadnos> or all of the above ;)
[01:48:57] <jmkasunich> 1, IIRC
[01:49:11] <jmkasunich> the one that had 4K ram and a cassette recorder
[01:49:19] <SWPadnos> which one? ;)
[01:49:28] <SWPadnos> I think the CoCo started out that way
[01:49:42] <SWPadnos> but if it was black&white, it was probably a model 1
[01:49:48] <jmkasunich> yeah
[01:50:23] <jmkasunich> I wonder if you can walk into a computer store today and write a program on the default doze box?
[01:50:30] <jmkasunich> maybe a batch file
[01:50:32] <SWPadnos> I don't think so
[01:50:43] <SWPadnos> yes, a batch file could work
[01:51:11] <SWPadnos> @echo off
[01:51:13] <SWPadnos> :loop
[01:51:15] <SWPadnos> echo "WINDOWS SUCKS"
[01:51:16] <SWPadnos> goto loop
[01:51:17] <cradek> does the dos prompt have loops?
[01:51:23] <jmkasunich> it has goto
[01:51:28] <cradek> whee
[01:51:49] <SWPadnos> it needs goto for the advanced input modes
[01:51:53] <SWPadnos> you know:
[01:52:06] <SWPadnos> if ERRORLEVEL 255 GOTO OneLabel
[01:52:17] <SWPadnos> if ERRORLEVEL 254 GOTO AnotherLabel
[01:52:19] <cradek> oh make it stop
[01:52:20] <SWPadnos> ...
[01:52:21] <skunkworks> you need a semi-colon at the end of the print statement so is fills the whole screen
[01:52:50] <SWPadnos> yeah, but I like the left-justified text ;)
[01:53:24] <skunkworks> :)
[01:56:32] <Jymmm> I don't get it.... why would a toolkit be talking about network functionality?
http://www.memecode.com/lgi.php
[01:56:59] <SWPadnos> because netowrking, specifically for HTML rendering and hot-linking, is part of many basic toolsets these days
[01:57:15] <SWPadnos> (well, the link part of that anyway)
[01:57:23] <fenn> and that lends it "operating system independence"
[01:57:50] <Jymmm> Ok, I'll take your words for it.
[01:58:09] <skunkworks> isn't that what java was supposed to be?
[01:58:14] <Jymmm> * Jymmm just aint getting it today
[01:58:19] <SWPadnos> consider that file access and network access are somewhat (to very) different among platforms
[01:58:45] <SWPadnos> so toolkits include those as part of the toolset, like the GUI library, so you don't have to maintain 3 versions of your network code
[01:59:10] <SWPadnos> or your settings (ini/registry/dot-files) handling, etc.
[01:59:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: You know, that one tookit circa 2003, does sound appealing to me because it has DOS gui stuffs.
[01:59:56] <SWPadnos> if you're doing this for fun, then go for it. if you're trying to get some "modern skills" for work, I'd go with something more - err - modern :)
[02:00:30] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Actually, I want to write an email client (I have for many years).
[02:00:47] <jmkasunich> I should really change PID to use either the pin_newf functions, or convert it over to comp
[02:00:50] <SWPadnos> then you may want to look into the mozilla/firefox NPTL
[02:00:52] <jmkasunich> but not tonight
[02:01:07] <A-L-P-H-A> too much frustration.
[02:01:25] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Moz is the REASON I want to write a MAU, they fscked up and lost 5 years worht of email. And it hasn't been the first time.
[02:02:27] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: If I hadn't know about the way it works internally, I would have never been able to recover my email (and recovery took a couple of days too).
[02:02:38] <SWPadnos> they happen to have a prett ycomplete cross-platform networking / GUI platform though, so you can write your own app on top of that
[02:02:41] <cradek> make backups
[02:02:42] <jepler> jmkasunich: convert it to comp? how hard could it be...
[02:03:03] <jmkasunich> probably not that hard
[02:03:05] <Jymmm> cradek Backups is the problem when the client deletes them
[02:03:19] <jmkasunich> but it would be my first one, which means figuring things out
[02:03:19] <cradek> ?
[02:03:29] <Jymmm> cradek there ar ebugs in their IMAP code.
[02:03:39] <Jymmm> There always has been.
[02:03:46] <SWPadnos> then fix those ;)
[02:03:50] <jmkasunich> can comp deal with optional parameters?
[02:03:56] <SWPadnos> it's open source, after all
[02:03:59] <cradek> all software has bugs - one reason to make backups
[02:04:10] <jmkasunich> in this case, that means ones who'd data is always reserved, but which are optionally exported
[02:04:13] <SWPadnos> hey - there was one bug-free program
[02:04:26] <SWPadnos> it was for NextStep
[02:04:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos screw that, there are other features that I want tha no client has ever implemented.
[02:04:40] <jepler> http://zeniv.linux.org.uk/~telsa/boom/
[02:04:53] <jepler> jmkasunich: optional parameters?
[02:05:00] <jmkasunich> yeah
[02:05:01] <jepler> jmkasunich: everything is created all the time
[02:05:08] <A-L-P-H-A> this is weird... my enter key won't work in bon echo now
[02:05:12] <jmkasunich> pid has some internals that aren't exported unless you ask for them
[02:05:30] <jepler> you might be able to do it with EXTRA_SETUP
[02:05:34] <SWPadnos> what about multiple instances?
[02:05:35] <jmkasunich> they are mostly usefull for troubleshooting (scope em) and clutter the listings otherwise
[02:06:13] <A-L-P-H-A> ooooooooooh hey... it's fixed it self a little now... I only have one hda1 mount point now, instead of a duplicate.
[02:06:18] <cradek> wow, nice laptop photos
[02:06:32] <jepler> I have considered having "personalities" which would turn pins or parameters off, but haven't done anything about it
[02:06:33] <SWPadnos> yeah - I read about that on Slashdot today
[02:06:36] <cradek> hardware - another reason to make backups
[02:07:44] <jepler> I'm not sure exactly how that would work, how you'd specify the condition. I'd want to be able to support the different parallel port modes that way, for instance.
[02:08:10] <jepler> or different step types
[02:09:03] <jmkasunich> yeah, that can get complicated
[02:09:23] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna just leave it as is now
[02:09:28] <jepler> you mean, not written in comp?
[02:09:42] <jmkasunich> separating the FF2 and a conversion into comp into two separate commits is probably good anyway
[02:09:46] <jepler> yeah
[02:10:00] <cradek> ff2 is done already?
[02:10:10] <jmkasunich> I think so
[02:10:20] <jmkasunich> not built or tested or documented yet ;-)
[02:10:37] <jmkasunich> make that "not tested or documented yet"
[02:14:08] <A-L-P-H-A> Anyone got anything neat to machine for kicks?
[02:15:27] <fenn> a kicking machine
[02:16:10] <jmkasunich> cradek: I have a once in a lifetime opportunity for you
[02:16:15] <A-L-P-H-A> or some line art, I could use my pen contraption to draw with?
[02:16:19] <jmkasunich> you can be the _very_ first person to test FF2!!!
[02:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> what is FF2? what is FF? Firefox?
[02:16:53] <jmkasunich> 2nd derivative feedforward (part of the EMC PID block)
[02:17:02] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[02:17:08] <A-L-P-H-A> is that like lookahead stuff?
[02:17:22] <jmkasunich> no, just something used for tuning servo loops
[02:17:28] <A-L-P-H-A> oh
[02:18:15] <jmkasunich> aw crap
[02:18:33] <jmkasunich> to properly document the FF2 I need to redraw the block diagram
[02:18:38] <A-L-P-H-A> bbiab... want some tea
[02:18:52] <jmkasunich> oh, actually I don't
[02:19:01] <jmkasunich> the diagram already has FF2 in it
[02:19:05] <jmkasunich> duh
[02:19:29] <jmkasunich> in fact FF2 is completely documented
[02:20:04] <skunkworks> now the software matches the documents :)
[02:20:13] <jmkasunich> amazing isn't it
[02:21:11] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/pid.c: added FF2 term to PID block
[02:29:18] <A-L-P-H-A> How do I force ubuntu to recognize a usb CDROM, so I can burn a CD? I turned the USB cdrom after linux started.
[02:32:32] <SWPadnos> under gnome, an icon appears on the desktop when you plug in a removeable disk (USB drive, memory card, etc)
[02:33:01] <SWPadnos> it should be automounted under /media, I think (but maybe not if the device wasn't present at install time)
[02:34:07] <Jymmm> Tostados with refried beans, motcerella, red onion, cilatro, dash of lime juice and salt... tasty!
[02:34:21] <Jymmm> oh and pico pica!!!
[02:35:27] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: it's not being auto recognized.
[02:35:29] <A-L-P-H-A> that's the problem.
[02:35:46] <SWPadnos> there should be some command like scanusb
[02:36:05] <SWPadnos> actually, does dmesg indicate that the drive was recognized?
[02:36:46] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[02:36:48] <A-L-P-H-A> dmesg does
[02:37:00] <A-L-P-H-A> [17192682.272000] usb 5-7: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7
[02:37:00] <A-L-P-H-A> [17192682.464000] usb 5-7: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[02:37:35] <SWPadnos> nothing similar to "using SCSI generic device sg0"
[02:38:32] <A-L-P-H-A> [17192682.272000] usb 5-7: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 7
[02:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> [17192682.464000] usb 5-7: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[02:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> [17193287.084000] usb 5-7: USB disconnect, address 7
[02:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> [17193309.248000] usb 5-7: new high speed USB device using ehci_hcd and address 8
[02:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> [17193309.440000] usb 5-7: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[02:39:07] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, I don't know what device name would be assigned on your machine
[02:39:28] <SWPadnos> even if I id, that wouldn't fix the non-auto-mount problem (which I don't know how to fix)
[02:39:35] <SWPadnos> s/id/did/
[02:39:38] <A-L-P-H-A> hmm... whacked.
[02:39:44] <A-L-P-H-A> brb... going to reboot... should find it then.
[02:40:30] <alpha-lappy> I'm completely surrounded by machines.
[02:42:03] <alpha-lappy> debating of going back to drake, or knot3... bah... I feel like pain. knot3.
[02:43:46] <skunkworks> gnome suits me fine :)
[02:44:28] <alpha-lappy> hahaha.
[02:44:34] <alpha-lappy> I can't even get into X now.
[02:46:10] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/comp.g:
[02:46:10] <CIA-8> require at least one function and at least one pin
[02:46:10] <CIA-8> if there are no parameters, do not include a parameters section in the manpage
[02:49:51] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (15 files): implement many things from 'blocks' in .comp. These need to be tested.
[02:52:03] <jmkasunich> jepler: any particular reason comp is in the src/emc/usr_intf tree instead of src/hal ?
[02:52:47] <jepler> jmkasunich: only an "it was easier ..." kind of whiny answer
[02:52:53] <jepler> jmkasunich: it should be in src/hal/utils or so
[02:53:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/ (and2.comp not.comp or2.comp): mark some functions as nofp
[02:53:38] <jmkasunich> is it difficult to move (makefile complications, etc)?
[02:55:37] <jepler> I'll have it done in two minutes
[02:55:46] <jepler> src/hal/utils make sense to you too?
[02:56:33] <jmkasunich> yeah, I think so
[02:56:48] <jmkasunich> the other utils are things you use a runtime, not buildtime
[02:56:56] <jmkasunich> but I don't think we need yet another directory
[02:57:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/Submakefile: move comp from emc/usr_intf/axis to hal/utils
[02:57:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (comp.g Submakefile): move comp from emc/usr_intf/axis to hal/utils
[02:57:59] <jmkasunich> thanks
[02:58:14] <jepler> I had been putting it off, thanks for bringing it up
[02:59:49] <jepler> goodnight
[03:00:07] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:00:35] <jepler> at risk of sounding pleased with myself, I just love that this tool gives manpages.
http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/edge.9.html
[03:00:52] <jmkasunich> that is very cool
[03:01:07] <Jymmm> what is it?
[03:01:25] <jmkasunich> what is what?
[03:01:31] <Jymmm> edge
[03:01:32] <jmkasunich> edge is a hal component
[03:01:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/edge.comp: fix type of pin 'out-width-ns'
[03:01:44] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[03:02:15] <jepler> Jymmm: 'edge' is an edge detector, it creates an output pulse of a specified length when it sees a rising or falling edge on its input
[03:02:29] <jmkasunich> btw, why does edge have its pulse width as a float?
[03:02:38] <jepler> 22:01:44 <CIA-8> jepler HEAD * emc2/src/hal/components/edge.comp: fix type of pin 'out-width-ns'
[03:02:39] <Jymmm> jepler I looked at the link, but still wasn't sure.
[03:02:46] <jmkasunich> duh
[03:03:22] <jepler> jmkasunich: originally it was a float, but that meant making the function uses-fp
[03:03:28] <jmkasunich> right
[03:03:29] <Jymmm> * Jymmm sighs... I got a job today, start next Monday, but eh. (just venting)
[03:03:33] <jepler> so I changed it, but missed that detail
[03:03:44] <jmkasunich> the param last-in
[03:03:52] <jepler> oh did I screw that up too?
[03:04:04] <jmkasunich> do you forsee a need to make it accessible? or could it be internal storage instead
[03:04:09] <jmkasunich> no messup, just wondering
[03:04:38] <jepler> it's easier than using 'data', but that's a pretty flimsy reason
[03:04:55] <jepler> and not much easier anyway
[03:05:03] <jepler> 'option data int' would do it
[03:05:43] <jmkasunich> I assume edge is retriggerable - if you get another edge during the output pulse it resets time-left-ns to the desired width
[03:06:03] <jepler> it looks like that's what I implemented
[03:06:08] <jepler> if(new_in && new_in != last_in) {
[03:06:08] <jepler> time_left_ns = out_width_ns;
[03:06:08] <jepler> out = 1; out_invert = 0;
[03:06:36] <jepler> that's the first case, before I subtract from time_left_ns and decide whether to turn the output off
[03:06:48] <jmkasunich> ok
[03:06:58] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich is sitting here and second guessing things
[03:07:01] <jmkasunich> not a good thing to do
[03:07:41] <jmkasunich> wondering about the tradeoff between use of floating point and the timing range
[03:08:24] <jepler> hm I hadn't considered that .. I guess the limit is around 2.1 seconds
[03:08:27] <jmkasunich> maybe I'll make one called "oneshot" that works the same, but uses a float for out-width and a double for the internal counter
[03:10:12] <jepler> will a 1-day out-width actually work, even if it's a float? 1 day / 1 millisecond is much bigger than 2^24, so it seems like the counter will just stay stuck
[03:10:24] <jmkasunich> thats why the internal would be a double
[03:10:28] <jmkasunich> (and hidden)
[03:10:31] <jepler> oh you said that
[03:10:43] <jmkasunich> time-left would be a float because thats all HAL supports
[03:10:48] <jepler> cf my computer proof (at age 16) that the harmonic series converges to 17.<mumble>
[03:11:09] <jmkasunich> ;-)
[03:12:18] <jmkasunich> hmm, I just realized that edge can be used as a watchdog
[03:12:42] <jmkasunich> have your user space or slow RT thread toggle a bit
[03:12:53] <jmkasunich> and let edge in a fast thread retrigger each time
[03:13:02] <jmkasunich> if it times out, estop the machine
[03:13:11] <jepler> interesting
[03:13:12] <jmkasunich> (that assumes the failure isn't in the fast thread)
[03:15:13] <jepler> hm, the actual sum of the harmonic sequence is: 15.403683
[03:15:17] <jepler> (when computed in 'float' precision)
[03:15:22] <jepler> goodnight (again)
[03:15:29] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[03:15:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: Isn't it close to your bedtime too?
[03:15:51] <jmkasunich> getting there
[03:15:57] <Jymmm> ah, =)
[03:16:35] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: HAve you used GTK under M$ ?
[03:16:55] <jmkasunich> no
[03:17:08] <jmkasunich> I haven't programmed under M$ since about 1995 or so
[03:17:36] <jmkasunich> well, maybe a few little things... but nothing serious
[03:17:44] <jmkasunich> and certainly nothing GUI
[03:18:12] <Jymmm> Yeah, I'm finally going for it. Starting from ground zero too
[03:18:42] <Jymmm> Loosing 5 years of email was the straw that broke the camels back.
[03:21:59] <alpha-lappy> Jymmm: no backups?
[03:22:44] <fenn> linux wont make backups for you either
[03:23:04] <alpha-lappy> fenn, will linux make my morning toast and coffee?
[03:23:06] <Jymmm> alpha-lappy: I eventually recovered (36 hours later), but Moz IMAP client just wiped out the local store.
[03:23:14] <fenn> alpha-lappy: if you tell it to
[03:50:18] <alpha-lappy> logger_aj: help
[03:50:48] <alpha-lappy> logger_aj, search raid
[03:50:48] <alpha-lappy> I'm logging. I don't understand 'search raid', alpha-lappy. Try /msg logger_aj help
[03:50:52] <alpha-lappy> :(
[03:57:34] <Jymmm> just messing around?
[04:00:02] <alpha-lappy> no
[04:00:21] <alpha-lappy> I forgot to keep the bookmark that I just wiped, on how to mount an reiserfs
[04:00:27] <alpha-lappy> alex_joni: isn't around either. :(
[04:37:17] <fenn> mount -t reiserfs?
[04:37:28] <alpha-lappy> yeah... but raid 0
[04:37:33] <alpha-lappy> two sda1 and sda2
[04:37:44] <fenn> how do you normally mount a raid filesystem?
[04:37:57] <alpha-lappy> fenn: I don't remember.
[04:38:05] <alpha-lappy> I'm downloading all the logs off aj's site, to do a search
[04:38:22] <alpha-lappy> learning how to use beagle as well
[04:38:41] <fenn> wait a minute now
[04:38:50] <fenn> you're just getting into linux and you have a raid 0 reiserfs??
[04:38:55] <alpha-lappy> "had"
[04:39:18] <alpha-lappy> "HAD" a raid 0 reiserfs... I lost if after I just reinstalled... I lost the bookmark, forgot to back that up
[04:39:29] <fenn> oh that was jymmm not you
[04:39:55] <Jymmm> ?
[04:40:50] <fenn> <- suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.. may be unintelligible
[04:41:11] <Jymmm> Got O2 ?
[04:52:20] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/oneshot.comp: added 'oneshot' component - configurable one-shot pulse generator
[05:00:58] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[05:01:02] <A-L-P-H-A> raid0 connected again!
[05:01:05] <A-L-P-H-A> swwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeet.
[06:03:07] <A-L-P-H-A> :D got xchat-gnome working now as well.
[06:03:09] <A-L-P-H-A> so much better
[09:00:49] <K`zan> Night folks
[09:01:01] <anonimasu> lunch
[09:38:38] <anonimasu> iab
[12:04:53] <alex_joni> hi all
[12:05:13] <anonimasu> hi
[12:05:18] <alex_joni> what's up?
[12:05:24] <anonimasu> not much
[12:05:32] <anonimasu> set up another w2003 server..
[12:05:36] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is playing with sugarCRM
[12:06:18] <SWPadnos> remember to brush afterwards
[12:06:24] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: :P
[12:07:11] <alex_joni> damn, my PBX'es serial doesn't work anymore :(
[12:13:15] <anonimasu> haha
[12:13:17] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:19:43] <alex_joni> anyone know a good free online recipe database?
[12:19:56] <alex_joni> * alex_joni vaguely remembers something ending in .edu
[12:20:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm - my mother had found one with many thousands of recipes, but I don't remember where
[12:20:43] <alex_joni> I remember that one had over 2 million recipes
[12:20:56] <SWPadnos> oh. I'm lucky she never found that one
[13:36:31] <skunkworks> interesting
http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/projects/_emc/emcsoft.html
[13:45:39] <alex_joni> skunkworks: ancient stuff :)
[13:45:51] <skunkworks> that is what I thought
[13:45:53] <skunkworks> :)
[13:46:19] <skunkworks> I like the k&T picture - it is a much larger version of what we have.
[13:46:41] <skunkworks> look how far you guys have come. awesome.
[13:48:09] <skunkworks> (I didn't know what nml stood for - I guess I never asked)
[13:48:11] <SWPadnos> how about that first photo - of young(er) Matt Shaver :)
[13:48:54] <skunkworks> was matt at the cnc workshop?
[13:48:59] <SWPadnos> yep
[13:49:03] <SWPadnos> the big guy ;)
[13:49:06] <skunkworks> Ok I know who he was
[13:49:07] <skunkworks> :)
[13:49:31] <skunkworks> whos mini mill?
[13:50:01] <SWPadnos> ?
[13:50:20] <SWPadnos> oh - good question
[13:50:47] <SWPadnos> maybe that was one that NIST bought for development
[13:51:04] <skunkworks> (just nist equipment? Isn't one of cradeks lathes borrowed from there?)
[13:51:04] <SWPadnos> ok. back to lapping heatsinks
[13:51:21] <SWPadnos> "endless loan" more accurately ;)
[13:51:28] <skunkworks> that works :)
[13:51:35] <skunkworks> lapping heatsinks?
[13:51:42] <skunkworks> for?
[13:56:16] <SWPadnos> heatsinks for my opterin machine
[13:56:36] <SWPadnos> ooooohh - I can see myself
[14:02:09] <skunkworks> your next project is grinding me a 16inch primary mirror for a telescope.. 70inch focal lenght.
[14:34:05] <alex_joni> skunkworks: why so small?
[14:34:20] <alex_joni> think big.. arecibo style
[14:43:11] <skunkworks> I want it to be semi protable
[14:43:15] <skunkworks> portable
[14:46:28] <rayh> logger_aj, bookmark
[14:46:28] <rayh> See
http://81.196.65.201/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2006-09-26#T14-46-28
[14:46:49] <jepler> it's too bad you can't "/msg logger bookmark"
[14:52:52] <anonimasu> lol
[14:54:34] <anonimasu> e/n
[14:54:39] <anonimasu> endless loans are nice
[14:57:39] <alex_joni> jepler: good you're around
[14:57:44] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is seeing an error
[14:57:54] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/183000
[14:58:24] <alex_joni> ever seen anything like that?
[14:58:30] <alex_joni> it only happens with AXIS
[15:00:14] <cradek> can you run glxgears?
[15:00:28] <alex_joni> eek .. no
[15:00:35] <alex_joni> Xlib: extension "GLX" missing on display ":0.0".
[15:00:52] <cradek> when you fix your X server I bet axis works
[15:00:58] <cradek> it would be nice if we had a better error message though
[15:01:19] <alex_joni> any idea what to do?
[15:01:35] <cradek> is the X server a normal ubuntu?
[15:01:56] <alex_joni> cradek: should be
[15:02:04] <cradek> what video driver?
[15:03:29] <alex_joni> Driver "i810"
[15:03:55] <cradek> I thought I had one of those and gl worked (with direct rendering) on dapper
[15:04:28] <cradek> bbl
[15:06:15] <alex_joni> * alex_joni heads home..
[15:06:16] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:23:15] <anonimasu> hm..
[15:23:20] <anonimasu> weird..
[15:59:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/ (.swish_config .cvsignore Makefile):
[15:59:38] <CIA-8> create scripts and makefile rules for the use of the 'swish-e' full-text
[15:59:38] <CIA-8> indexer to search the emc2 source and documentation
[15:59:38] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/scripts/swish:
[15:59:38] <CIA-8> create scripts and makefile rules for the use of the 'swish-e' full-text
[15:59:39] <CIA-8> indexer to search the emc2 source and documentation
[16:01:15] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/.swish_config: indexing the tags file is silly
[16:02:19] <jepler> example: to find all the places that ANGULAR_UNITS_DEG is used (there are 14 places and finding them takes under a second): $ ./scripts/swish ANGULAR_UNITS_DEG
[16:22:41] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/.swish_config: searching eps files is also not very useful
[16:31:16] <skunkworks> swish?
[16:31:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/.vimrc: vim configuration to play nicely with emc2
[16:31:40] <jepler> skunkworks: swish aka swish-e is a full-text indexer
[16:32:50] <cradek> haha
[16:32:55] <cradek> function makerelative () {
[16:32:58] <cradek> python -c '
[16:32:59] <cradek> ...
[16:33:01] <cradek> '
[16:33:03] <cradek> }
[16:33:14] <jepler> if you want to re-write that as one line of shell script be my guest
[16:33:26] <jepler> I was a bit embarrased by that code, but it seemed to work
[16:33:47] <cradek> can I just snicker at your embarassment for a little while instead?
[16:34:28] <cradek> I'm not quite sure I understand what it does
[16:34:36] <cradek> deals with \0 IFS I see
[16:36:55] <jepler> it makes the filenames reported by swish (which start from the root directory) relative to the current directory, no matter what it is
[16:37:21] <jepler> so if you're in emc2.cvs/src it will report a match in hal/whatever.c or ../docs/src/whatever.lyx
[16:37:55] <jepler> as long as it's shorter than the absolute path
[16:38:22] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/.vimrc: ask vim to treat .comp files like C source code
[16:41:59] <cradek> wow, congratulations for getting through the swish manpages
[16:42:17] <cradek> I thought there might be an option or something
[16:44:07] <cradek> -yacht
[16:44:10] <cradek> -remodel your house
[16:44:13] <cradek> -pay off other loans
[16:44:21] <cradek> I got a spam containing this and my first attempt was to read it as a diff
[16:45:17] <jepler> an option for .. which thing?
[16:45:46] <cradek> don't print absolute paths
[16:46:08] <jepler> oh
[16:46:14] <cradek> oh wait, I think I get the point now
[16:46:16] <jepler> I think that if you give relative paths when you create the index, it prints those relative paths
[16:46:22] <jepler> but they're relative to wherever you made the index
[16:46:53] <cradek> ok but you're expecting that someone might put this in his path and use it from anywhere?
[16:47:09] <jepler> right
[16:47:25] <jepler> if my editor is in src/hal/components I should still be able to run '.../swish wcomp'
[16:47:28] <skunkworks> cradek: have you tried the ff2 yet?
[16:47:33] <cradek> skunkworks: no
[16:47:43] <cradek> did he commit it?
[16:48:26] <skunkworks> I think so - last night.
[16:48:44] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile:
[16:48:44] <CIA-8> enhance the 'tags' target to exclude generated files, and treat Submakefiles
[16:48:44] <CIA-8> and .comp files as appropriate file types
[16:49:54] <jepler> in0 hal/components/or2.comp /^pin in bit in0;$/;" v
[16:50:26] <skunkworks> CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/pid.c: added FF2 term to PID block
[16:50:35] <jepler> this is pretty cool -- ctags creates a good entry for the pin name in the tags file
[16:50:55] <cradek> nice
[16:51:06] <jepler> it's pure luck
[16:51:15] <jepler> even when there's a doc string -- that's even more luck
[16:51:15] <jepler> in0 hal/components/comp.comp /^pin in float in0 "Inverting input to the comparator";$/;" v
[16:52:15] <skunkworks> <jmkasunich> cradek: I have a once in a lifetime opportunity for you
[16:52:25] <skunkworks> <jmkasunich> you can be the _very_ first person to test FF2!!!
[16:52:33] <skunkworks> :)
[16:52:54] <cradek> it'll be at least tomorrow until I can do that
[16:53:40] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone here played with vmware?
[16:53:51] <skunkworks> No hurry - thats how I came up with the nist page this morning. I was trying to get more base on what the ff0-2 did :)
[16:54:09] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/Makefile: make :tag filename.c and :tag CLASS::member work
[16:54:25] <A-L-P-H-A> ahhhh.... I need wmware workstation.
[16:54:39] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: for what function? It's the -server product that is "free" (as in beer)
[16:54:40] <cradek> they add into the pid output a term proportional to the 0th, 1st, or 2nd derivative of position
[16:56:15] <A-L-P-H-A> jepler: looking to make a VM image for windowsXP, so I can use photoshop and autocad 2006
[16:56:26] <skunkworks> direvatives - boy - that was 15 years ago.
[16:56:49] <skunkworks> or am I thinking of integrating :)
[16:56:57] <jepler> A-L-P-H-A: you should abe able to do that with vmware-server (though I haven't done anything but Linux guests)
[16:59:33] <cradek> I know win2k installs on it fine
[16:59:51] <cradek> I'd be worried about the step where XP calls home to microsoft to tell them about your install
[17:06:12] <skunkworks> I have a question
[17:06:16] <skunkworks> ok - 2 questions
[17:07:01] <skunkworks> 1 - will emc do a brake for a vertical axis? (engaging the brake when the axis isn't moving)
[17:07:55] <skunkworks> 2 - what about temp compensation? (not as big a deal) Our big mill has a temp sensor in the spindle to adjust the depth as the spindle expands
[17:09:22] <skunkworks> (actually they are both not a big deal - I think the head is counter balanced - maybe the brake would only be used as a shut down/estop brake)
[17:16:20] <alex_joni> skunkworks: quite easy to set the brake
[17:16:30] <alex_joni> there is a motion.in-position pin which you can use
[17:16:42] <alex_joni> maybe using CL with a little delay
[17:20:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I think I'm depressed...
[17:20:52] <A-L-P-H-A> really freak'n sleepy, and zero motivation.
[17:21:34] <skunkworks> alex_joni: thanks
[17:22:34] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: that sucks :/
[17:24:33] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: same here
[17:24:37] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to get into a different kind of mindset.
[17:24:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to create... when I create i'm happy.
[17:25:03] <pier_casa> A-L-P-H-A: you are not alone...
[17:25:28] <A-L-P-H-A> now, :D, if I can create something I enjoy, and make $$$$$$$$$$$$ even better.
[17:25:31] <skunkworks> wife is getting corrective eye sugery. She is really excited. The fda finally approved her correction. (4.41 with stigmatism) (pop bottle glasses ;))
[17:25:38] <bill20r3> oof.
[17:25:46] <A-L-P-H-A> but I'll settle for $$... but not $... I'd like to make $$$/unit. :)
[17:25:49] <bill20r3> I'd be excited too.
[17:26:18] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: ... just make sure now that she'll be hot, she won't make you jealous...
[17:26:42] <skunkworks> I thinks she is hot with glasses - so that doesn't help ;)
[17:27:01] <A-L-P-H-A> skunkworks: tell the truth when she isn't looking over your shouldar. ;)
[17:27:08] <bill20r3> but now she'll be able to see you. -)
[17:27:20] <bill20r3> "honey, I didn't realize you were so old"
[17:27:23] <skunkworks> oh crap - never thought of that :)
[17:27:24] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: I'm at a low right now too.. not getting stuff done at all..
[17:27:54] <skunkworks> fiscal year end here at work - pain in the ass.
[17:28:22] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: ... Wanna make/build me an 90s2313 digital tachometer with 16x2 LCD display? I've got most of the code somewhere...
[17:28:58] <A-L-P-H-A> sensors are IR based... probably run them through a hex inverter.
[17:29:17] <anonimasu> ir based?
[17:29:31] <bill20r3> ir, or hall-effect?
[17:29:32] <A-L-P-H-A> LED infrared emmittor and detector.
[17:29:36] <anonimasu> hm, ir probably
[17:29:44] <bill20r3> that's pretty simple code isn't it?
[17:29:44] <anonimasu> why not a inductive sensor?
[17:29:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[17:29:53] <bill20r3> I've been thinking of building a tach for my scooter.
[17:29:54] <A-L-P-H-A> I already got the code.
[17:30:08] <bill20r3> avr attiny code?
[17:30:17] <bill20r3> is it asm or C?
[17:30:18] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: (you), AJ, and swampy helped me out with that.
[17:30:21] <A-L-P-H-A> asm
[17:30:23] <A-L-P-H-A> avrasm
[17:30:29] <bill20r3> ahh. no asm for me.
[17:30:42] <bill20r3> I barely struggle with C.
[17:30:43] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: long time ago right?
[17:30:49] <alex_joni> A-L-P-H-A: why not write C ?
[17:30:55] <A-L-P-H-A> almost 1.5years ago
[17:31:04] <anonimasu> :D
[17:31:18] <A-L-P-H-A> it's written, just hasn't been built...
[17:31:24] <A-L-P-H-A> tested only in the simulator
[17:31:49] <anonimasu> hehe
[17:32:02] <anonimasu> im writing a p-code interpreter for my avr
[17:32:13] <A-L-P-H-A> what's pcode?
[17:32:57] <A-L-P-H-A> Someone should right a cheap signal pulse generator.... like the G100/G101
[17:33:10] <anonimasu> just a sec
[17:33:19] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-Code_machine
[17:34:16] <A-L-P-H-A> oooooooh pascal.
[17:34:23] <anonimasu> something like it
[17:34:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I see.
[17:34:56] <A-L-P-H-A> right=write
[17:35:05] <anonimasu> mostly for practice
[17:36:26] <anonimasu> :)
[17:36:35] <anonimasu> but I dunno, not too motivated right now
[17:36:42] <A-L-P-H-A> neither am I.
[17:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> client said he figured something out, so he doesn't need me to drop by.
[17:37:02] <A-L-P-H-A> so... I'm like okay...
[17:37:09] <A-L-P-H-A> I could so just fall back asleep.
[17:37:24] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: you mean they dont need you anymore?
[17:37:32] <A-L-P-H-A> just for today
[17:37:32] <anonimasu> or just not now?
[17:37:36] <anonimasu> ah
[17:37:46] <A-L-P-H-A> otherwise I'd be really depressed.
[17:38:44] <A-L-P-H-A> I need to figure out g-parted, and make a 30-50 gig fat32 partition, so windows and linux can play nice.
[17:39:50] <anonimasu> ok
[17:41:44] <A-L-P-H-A> okie... if I have this line "mount -t reiserfs /dev/md0 /media/raid0/" what should I put in my fstab? "/dev/md0 /media/raid0 reiserfs fedaults 0 1"
[17:42:48] <bill20r3> except for the typo in 'defaults', yes.
[17:42:55] <bill20r3> afair, anyway.
[17:44:59] <A-L-P-H-A> bill20r3: :D see... that's why I need a proofreader.
[17:45:01] <A-L-P-H-A> thanks
[17:45:20] <bill20r3> np
[17:53:18] <MichelG> Hello everybody
[17:53:34] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[17:54:51] <MichelG> I think I found another glitch in stepgen which cause losing steps when going into estop
[17:57:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks is of the opinion that if your hitting the estop - you don't care if you lose steps.
[17:58:04] <skunkworks> estop = rehome on a stepper machine.
[17:58:18] <MichelG> In fact it occurs when joint->enable is 0, which occurs at home, or when probing.
[17:59:29] <skunkworks> if you don't want to loose steps and it isn't an emergency - then use the abort
[18:02:31] <MichelG> I have modified emc2 so that tripping the probe when not probing -> estop. (I have bended my probe twice before)
[18:04:35] <skunkworks> If I hit estop on a stepper machine - I don't want to have to wait for it to de-accellerate before it stops. I want it to stop. if that make sense
[18:06:10] <anonimasu> yeah perfectly
[18:06:16] <anonimasu> as you never know what's happened
[18:06:37] <anonimasu> might be a drive or something or somone caught in a axis..
[18:06:56] <MichelG> On a stepper machine, there is no feedback, and I NEVER want to loose steps. In addition, if max accel is correctly set, stopping properly is as fast, and at least we know what we do.
[18:07:31] <skunkworks> Then we agree to disagree :)
[18:08:17] <MichelG> Maybe not ;) (mean disagree)
[18:08:30] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: what was that command to list packages again?
[18:08:42] <anonimasu> libraries
[18:08:44] <anonimasu> ldconfig -v
[18:08:47] <anonimasu> :)
[18:09:07] <anonimasu> ther should be something like "pkgconfig -??"
[18:09:11] <anonimasu> to list what pkgconfig knows..
[18:09:12] <skunkworks> My machine is big enough that accelleration/deaccelleration take time. not much time - but time.
[18:10:11] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: in /usr/lib/pkgconfig or something there should be alot of .pc files
[18:10:35] <MichelG> I am not positive about that, but stopping in an orderly fashion couls actually take *less* time, as it keeps the stepper in phase?
[18:10:37] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah there's a lot in there.
[18:10:42] <A-L-P-H-A> 83 of them
[18:10:54] <anonimasu> are the ones you want there?
[18:11:35] <A-L-P-H-A> doesn't look like it.
[18:12:04] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is confused
[18:12:47] <A-L-P-H-A> the four missing packagess...
[18:12:56] <A-L-P-H-A> says this. sec.
[18:12:59] <anonimasu> ok
[18:13:27] <A-L-P-H-A> http://pastebin.ca/183203
[18:13:50] <A-L-P-H-A> and here's this.
http://pastebin.ca/183204
[18:15:32] <A-L-P-H-A> brb... I need more sugar in my body.
[18:15:38] <A-L-P-H-A> otherwise I'm going to keel over, and sleep.
[18:20:49] <anonimasu> asoryr had to go
[18:21:09] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: and you are certain you've got thoose things?
[18:21:15] <anonimasu> since you dont have the lib's either :)
[18:21:55] <anonimasu> I need to get going
[18:21:56] <anonimasu> ttyl..
[18:24:31] <A-L-P-H-A> guess I'll recheck those libs
[18:29:30] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu: ... apt-get build-deps xchat-gnome and that's getting me everyghing I need
[18:37:32] <MichelG> Bye
[19:59:02] <A-L-P-H-A> why's evolution so slow?
[19:59:18] <A-L-P-H-A> or is it just my connection to my imap server?
[19:59:22] <SWPadnos> because you need many generations for strong traits to dominate
[19:59:35] <cradek> SWPadnos: thanks for saying that so I didn't have to
[19:59:41] <SWPadnos> heh
[19:59:42] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: :) the program.
[20:00:08] <A-L-P-H-A> shit yozzers this is slow
[20:00:36] <SWPadnos> maybe it's the intarweb
[20:09:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't understand the file structure of linux.
[20:09:35] <A-L-P-H-A> /etc /var /usr stuff.
[20:09:42] <A-L-P-H-A> I understand /home "that's given"
[20:10:21] <bill20r3> it's pretty confusing @ first
[20:10:35] <A-L-P-H-A> like /etc is just settings?
[20:10:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ./var is like a dump space?
[20:10:58] <A-L-P-H-A> ./usr is just misc dump of binaries??
[20:11:18] <bill20r3> /usr/bin
[20:11:29] <bill20r3> /var is usually stuff that changes, logs and such.
[20:11:48] <bill20r3> I dont actually know if there's a formal definition anywhere
[20:11:53] <A-L-P-H-A> cause I have apps in both /usr/bin and /usr/local/bin
[20:11:57] <SWPadnos> LSB
[20:12:09] <SWPadnos> there is a formal document, but I'd imagine it's a pain to read
[20:12:10] <bill20r3> /usr/local is stuff that you've installed yourself, that didn't come with the base OS installation
[20:12:27] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know why when I compiled xchat-gnome 0.13, it put itself in /usr/local/bin
[20:12:32] <SWPadnos> the /usr structure has user programs
[20:12:44] <SWPadnos> /usr/local has locally installed programs
[20:12:48] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... so where would 'apache' go?
[20:13:33] <SWPadnos> I dunno where it puts itself
[20:13:49] <bill20r3> probablly /usr/local/bin or /usr/local/sbin
[20:14:05] <bill20r3> unless it's the one that came with your distribution, then it'd be without the 'local'
[20:14:43] <A-L-P-H-A> okay
[20:14:49] <A-L-P-H-A> that's starting to make a little more sense.
[20:15:21] <A-L-P-H-A> now, I gotta remember, that everytime I get a new kernel, I'll have to compile nvidia's drivers again... :( man... wish they made linux a little more easy to use...
[20:15:48] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm fairly computer savvy... I couldn't imagine many of my friends putting up with this much configuring.
[20:15:56] <SWPadnos> you could always make a script that does that for you
[20:16:03] <A-L-P-H-A> then again, their machines are a little more simple... no raid, no multiple monitors...
[20:16:36] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: true. apt-get install linux-header-386 and that should get me my latest headers...
[20:16:44] <A-L-P-H-A> or headers
[20:17:39] <SWPadnos> hmmm - aren't headers upgraded automaticelly (like kernels)?
[20:18:03] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know.
[20:18:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm not new to linux... but I'm still newb
[20:21:53] <SWPadnos> when you consider the amount of tweaking it takes to get a Windows system working well, I'm not sure there's much of a difference
[20:22:11] <SWPadnos> there is a difference in *what* you do, but not so much in *how much* you do
[20:22:52] <A-L-P-H-A> probably cause I'm just fimiliar with what needs to be tweaked.
[20:22:57] <SWPadnos> exactly
[20:23:14] <SWPadnos> but then again, how many programs did you have to install to get a usable system with Ubuntu?
[20:23:15] <A-L-P-H-A> like... after doing it once or twice... I knew what to lookfor, and figure it out to get my system back running.
[20:23:20] <SWPadnos> (for me, it was 0)
[20:23:49] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: apache2, php, phpmyadmin, xchat-gnome (don't like the original xchat), umm... nvidia drivers....
[20:23:54] <SWPadnos> on Windows, not only do you usually have to deal with drivers for: chipset, video, sound, sometimes mouse+keyboarsd, USB, etc
[20:23:58] <A-L-P-H-A> mysql-server
[20:24:32] <SWPadnos> then add in WinZip, QuickTime, media player, realplayter, winamp, acrobat reader, openoffice (or even worse, MS Office) etc.
[20:24:37] <A-L-P-H-A> but with those, it's just dbl click, click next till you're complete.
[20:24:50] <SWPadnos> sure, usually.
[20:25:04] <A-L-P-H-A> true... but my list is 7z, itunes, OOo, and foxit reader.
[20:25:10] <SWPadnos> but then again, it's hard to get drivers off the net when the chipset / network drivers aren't working
[20:25:36] <A-L-P-H-A> seriously, if I didn't have mylaptop on the desk as well... I'd be fucked atm.
[20:25:39] <SWPadnos> I have a list of around 20 programs that I need to install to have a fully functional Windows system
[20:25:48] <A-L-P-H-A> my workstation would be a nice black computer case, with nothing working in it
[20:25:58] <SWPadnos> then again, I do install things that already have equivalents, such as FireFox and Thunderbird
[20:25:59] <bill20r3> worklessstation
[20:25:59] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, my fav text editor as well.
[20:26:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm giving evolution a try, instead of thunderbird.
[20:26:45] <SWPadnos> I hear it's slow ;)
[20:28:56] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos: HAR HAR HAR.
[20:30:07] <Jymmm> it is slow
[20:33:34] <A-L-P-H-A> okay, so it isn't just my machine
[20:33:36] <A-L-P-H-A> or connection
[20:33:39] <A-L-P-H-A> it is that app.
[20:36:14] <Jymmm> It's the reason I'm finally going to learn gui C dev.... To write an email client.
[20:38:33] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: if you find some good tutorials, toss them over this way.
[20:39:14] <Jymmm> k
[20:39:47] <Jymmm> I have some very specific goals in mind (not of the norm), so I'm not sure you'ld want them or not.
[20:41:21] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm too used to nice drag and drop gui's... like delphi
[20:42:30] <Jymmm> delphi == Pascal
[20:46:48] <Jymmm> Piece of Shit email client... I'm search the TO for jsut the domain name and it doens't show up.
[20:46:59] <Jymmm> but it's there. *sigh*
[20:48:53] <A-L-P-H-A> thunderbird isn't bad... I don't mind it at all.. .but I also am using imap, so the server has a copy of all my messages, so I don't loose anything
[20:49:06] <A-L-P-H-A> just giving evolution a try
[20:51:24] <A-L-P-H-A> sweet... got php5 + apache to work now in linux
[20:52:22] <Jymmm> Any Mozilla email product is from the same base code... and all POS.
[20:53:01] <cradek> all email programs suck
[20:53:26] <Jymmm> cradek Well, I guess in one form or another. That's why I'm going to write one.
[20:53:55] <Jymmm> I LOVED the original Netscape email, but RIP
[20:54:08] <jepler> $ head -5 /usr/share/doc/mutt-1.4.1/manual.txt | tail -1
[20:54:08] <jepler> ``All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less.'' -me, circa 1995
[20:55:52] <jepler> aside from good performance on large mailboxes, and the fact that it's text mode, mutt is a very good piece of software.
[20:56:15] <jepler> (though my personal preference is for a text-mode e-mail client)
[20:56:23] <Jymmm> jepler do you remember Netscape Email?
[20:56:44] <bill20r3> I think I used that.
[20:56:53] <cradek> Jymmm: is the source out there?
[20:57:05] <Jymmm> no
[20:57:09] <bill20r3> like netscape 2.x or something, right after it wasn't Mosaic anymore
[20:57:30] <A-L-P-H-A> I used outlook, cause of VBA, I used it to scrape headers, and kill bad shit
[20:57:31] <Jymmm> bill20r3 Yeah, up to NS4
[20:57:40] <A-L-P-H-A> but filters got smarter, so I just started using them.
[20:57:57] <jepler> Jymmm: I am sure I saw it at one time or another, but I wouldn't have ever seriously used a graphical e-mail client
[20:58:27] <Jymmm> cradek Actually, there *MIGHT* be a copt of the source in the ORIGNAL (first release) of Mozilla code.
[20:58:38] <Jymmm> jepler then or now?
[20:58:58] <cradek> if so you might be able to build it with one of the free motif clones
[20:59:24] <robin_sz> meep?
[20:59:37] <cradek> but it probably won't support imap etc.
[20:59:50] <Jymmm> cradek: Actually, I'm considering writing it from the ground up. Partly for the learning experiance, and in part to make sure it's clean.
[21:00:06] <Jymmm> cradek: Actually that will be one of the primary things I'll be working on IMAP support.
[21:00:48] <Jymmm> The 2nd being able to archive/backup/restore/export mailboxes
[21:01:15] <A-L-P-H-A> you can the 2nd with thunderbird easily enough
[21:01:26] <robin_sz> thunderbird rocks.
[21:01:34] <A-L-P-H-A> I like thunderbird a lot...
[21:01:46] <cradek> I use thunderbird occasionally to make me remember how good mutt is
[21:01:49] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A Yeah, try archiveing the last 18 months worth of email?
[21:01:59] <cradek> thunderbird is definitely the best of the 3-pane gui mailreaders
[21:02:04] <cradek> (they all look the same to me)
[21:02:11] <robin_sz> most of the time, its good, but it does suffer on largeish mailboxes
[21:02:27] <robin_sz> anyting over a few gb and it slows up
[21:03:00] <robin_sz> but mr moore will save us :)
[21:04:52] <Jymmm> robin_sz: How big is your mail store?
[21:05:54] <robin_sz> total? oh, 5gb or so
[21:06:26] <Jymmm> is that a guess, or awefully close?
[21:06:44] <robin_sz> within 100mb
[21:06:50] <robin_sz> du -sh and all that
[21:06:51] <Jymmm> k
[21:07:03] <Jymmm> over how long a period?
[21:07:08] <robin_sz> years
[21:07:16] <Jymmm> 99 years
[21:07:23] <Jymmm> 2 yrs 10 years
[21:07:28] <robin_sz> I dump lots of crap and old mailing lists etc
[21:07:41] <robin_sz> but wait .. I check
[21:07:56] <Jymmm> yeah, that's fine. Just trying to get what/how others are using and duration.
[21:08:10] <robin_sz> 8 years
[21:08:48] <robin_sz> i was on compuserve before that :)
[21:09:55] <Jymmm> Well, I'm hoping that my exp in MTA's will help carry over to dev a MUA
[21:10:06] <robin_sz> started out with a DEC terminal and a 1200 baud modem. the computer I had (IBM 5110) didnt have a modem
[21:10:15] <Jymmm> There are many thing I've always wanted for years in a client, but have never seen yet.
[21:10:28] <Jymmm> I just got rid of my 300 baud modem =)
[21:10:35] <Jymmm> woo hoo!
[21:10:47] <robin_sz> I think mine was an amstrad, 1200 each way ..
[21:11:01] <Jymmm> My gf still keeps her $400 14.4 Intel Satisfaction modem.
[21:11:12] <robin_sz> heh
[21:11:26] <Jymmm> Good old BBS days (I miss them)
[21:11:31] <robin_sz> and that was when $400 was a lot of cash!
[21:11:50] <Jymmm> You knew everyone on the bbs and could go out for coffee and stuff.
[21:12:06] <Jymmm> Yep, that's why she keeps it.
[21:12:15] <Jymmm> She waited 6 months to finally get one.
[21:17:58] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: yeah... I've archieved 2.5years worth.
[21:18:11] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: just backed up the profile directory. done.
[21:18:27] <A-L-P-H-A> slap it onto a DVD, and everything's happy
[21:18:51] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: $400 is still a decent amount of cash, that if you lost it, you'd be upset.
[21:19:42] <robin_sz> yeah, but now its like a day or twos wages, not a weeks worth
[21:19:51] <A-L-P-H-A> true.
[21:21:01] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: ok, now restore it.
[21:21:34] <Jymmm> backing up is easy, getting back into the client is the bitch part.
[21:21:51] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: if you're starting fresh, copy it all back, and edit the profile.ini file to point to the original profile folder.
[21:22:10] <A-L-P-H-A> if you're not start from fresh, still the same thing... just add a profile, and point to that folder.
[21:22:14] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A: No, no, not starting fresh... intergrating into your existing email.
[21:22:35] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: the merge the two, and use a program to delete duplicate based on msg IDs.
[21:22:43] <A-L-P-H-A> program = extension
[21:22:49] <Jymmm> Heh, if you say so.
[21:22:55] <A-L-P-H-A> I do, as I've done it.
[21:22:59] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[21:23:00] <Jymmm> uh huh
[21:23:08] <A-L-P-H-A> mute point now anyways.
[21:27:36] <robin_sz> moot
[21:27:42] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[21:28:23] <robin_sz> an easy mistake ...
[21:28:25] <A-L-P-H-A> now to try and figure out how to get bluetooth to work in linux
[21:28:31] <robin_sz> uh oh.
[21:28:38] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[21:28:51] <robin_sz> a gun has a breech and a butt, right?
[21:29:07] <A-L-P-H-A> bluetooth, and connect to razr v3c, then sync evolution with my razr.
[21:29:53] <robin_sz> well .. I once had a very serious safety discussion with a military officer about safety procedures on a range ...
[21:30:41] <robin_sz> and halfway through I reallized I had been referring to the piece of plastic inserted into the brrech when the gun is not in use as a butt-plug instead of a breech-plug
[21:32:08] <robin_sz> an easy mistake to make ;)
[21:32:26] <Jymmm> breech, as in revolver?
[21:32:44] <A-L-P-H-A> breech = open end. butt, where it rests against the shoulder.
[21:33:03] <Jymmm> opening in the rear of the barrel of a gun where bullets can be loaded
[21:33:12] <robin_sz> breech is the bit you put the cartridge into
[21:33:16] <A-L-P-H-A> oh.
[21:33:19] <Jymmm> yeah, that's what I thought.
[21:33:23] <robin_sz> butt is the end of the wooden bit
[21:33:39] <A-L-P-H-A> nozzel the end where the bullet comes out?
[21:33:42] <A-L-P-H-A> nozzle
[21:33:44] <robin_sz> mmm ...
[21:33:49] <A-L-P-H-A> I don't know guns.
[21:33:52] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm Canadian.
[21:33:57] <Jymmm> butt hits your shoulder or side of your palm closest to your pinky
[21:34:10] <robin_sz> muzzle!
[21:34:13] <robin_sz> thats it.
[21:34:19] <A-L-P-H-A> ahh
[21:34:27] <robin_sz> had to think for a bit then
[21:34:44] <Jymmm> No breech plugs for mine, semi-auto
[21:35:07] <Jymmm> but I can lockout a mag from being inserted
[21:35:48] <robin_sz> here in the UK, you would still have to put something inthe breech after the mag was dropped at most clubs ... just a bit of platic rod so a warden can see its "safe"
[21:36:01] <A-L-P-H-A> crapola... I need to find my machinery's handbook CDrom
[21:36:27] <Jymmm> not sure how I'd do that... Glock 17
[21:36:56] <robin_sz> pull back the slide ... stick someting into the chamber ..
[21:36:59] <Jymmm> though the cable lock I have does stick out of the slide
[21:37:11] <robin_sz> anyway, moot point, as we have no pistol clubs
[21:37:16] <Jymmm> lol
[21:37:50] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breech-loading
[21:37:50] <robin_sz> banned pistols over 10 years ago now
[21:38:10] <robin_sz> had a dramatic effect on hand gun related crime too
[21:39:13] <Jymmm> Whne they have removed hand gun restrictions here, crime drops by 30%
[21:39:41] <danex_> Jymmm, ever heard of Kennesaw Georgia?
[21:39:43] <robin_sz> our gun crimes tripled inthe last 10 years or so
[21:39:55] <Jymmm> robin_sz after the ban?
[21:39:59] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:39:59] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: ... what's that say about the UK?
[21:40:13] <Jymmm> robin_sz See, that's fscked.
[21:40:29] <A-L-P-H-A> Canada doesn't have remotely the level (even accounting for the population difference) compared against the USA...
[21:41:05] <robin_sz> we are at a similar level in the big cities, and near zero elsewhere
[21:41:41] <Jymmm> Well sure, when the criminals know that most dont have weapons on them, makes it much easier for the,.
[21:41:57] <Jymmm> s/the./them./
[21:42:29] <Jymmm> But if the criminals are not sure who is going to shoot back, they have reservations.
[21:42:30] <robin_sz> it goes up every year though, and every year they try and clamp down on legal owners, which are a) not reposnible for crime and b) a tiny tiny percentage of the populace
[21:42:44] <robin_sz> nah.
[21:42:52] <robin_sz> criminals dotn really think that hard
[21:43:21] <robin_sz> there are often gang fights here, the fact that the other side is tooled up doesnt put them off
[21:43:30] <danex_> Check the Kennesaw Gun Control Law
http://www.mcsm.org/kennesaw.html
[21:43:40] <robin_sz> anyway, way .. WAY of topic
[21:44:51] <Jymmm> robin_sz: CNC gatlin gun =)
[21:45:16] <Jymmm> 50mm hexipod
[21:45:39] <danex_> Anyone used M1xx codes in the Head version?
[21:45:40] <robin_sz> danex, I tink that depends very much on the community ... I can thnk of some community areas around here where if they had guns, it would indeed be worldwar 4
[21:45:41] <A-L-P-H-A> reminds me of the movie, the jackal
[21:46:11] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: some northern ireland parts, I would assume? :D
[21:46:24] <danex_> robin_sz, You are correct
[21:46:28] <Jymmm> they have guns be it legal or not.
[21:46:45] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: nah...they had more bombs...
[21:46:53] <A-L-P-H-A> bombs are way more effective in making a statement
[21:47:29] <A-L-P-H-A> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada#Violent_crime_in_Canada
[21:47:34] <robin_sz> A-L-P-H-A, strangley, although handgun possession is illegal in the UK, ther eis one bit of the UK it is still legal and one of the reasons you can give for wanting one is self defence ...
[21:47:39] <robin_sz> Norther ireland
[21:47:45] <robin_sz> weird huh?
[21:48:04] <A-L-P-H-A> robin_sz: odd. :D
[21:48:21] <robin_sz> actually, I think NI has stopped shooting each other now ...
[21:48:24] <A-L-P-H-A> I want to go to Oslo... that is the capital of Ireland right?
[21:48:27] <robin_sz> doesnt make the news here anymore
[21:48:48] <A-L-P-H-A> nope, norway
[21:48:55] <robin_sz> close.
[21:49:15] <robin_sz> Dublin is the capital of EIre
[21:49:27] <robin_sz> and Belfast the capital of NI
[21:49:39] <A-L-P-H-A> need to go to a part of the UK, besides London, to renew my passport.
[21:49:42] <robin_sz> or London, if you want to wind them up :)
[21:49:59] <A-L-P-H-A> Belfast then...
[21:50:02] <A-L-P-H-A> you far from Belfast?
[21:50:13] <robin_sz> well, its over the sea ...
[21:50:26] <robin_sz> so yes. :)
[21:50:31] <A-L-P-H-A> I could take a ferry across
[21:50:52] <robin_sz> guess so. its a hundred miles or so I think
[21:50:55] <robin_sz> never been.
[21:51:05] <A-L-P-H-A> where are you?
[21:51:23] <robin_sz> im close to Birmingham, smack in the middle of the southern lump of england
[21:51:30] <SWPadnos> lump - funny
[21:51:40] <A-L-P-H-A> anywhere there's a good passport office, where I can speak to people.
[21:51:52] <SWPadnos> well, you have to speak Irish in Belfast
[21:52:01] <robin_sz> hmmm ... probably Liverpool or London then
[21:52:10] <A-L-P-H-A> Brimingham!
[21:52:14] <A-L-P-H-A> I see it on googlemaps!
[21:52:38] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&z=10&ll=52.474416,-2.003632&spn=0.481821,0.895386&om=1
[21:52:46] <robin_sz> search for "DY12 1RB" to be spot on
[21:53:22] <A-L-P-H-A> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=DY12+1RB&ie=UTF8&z=17&t=k&om=1
[21:53:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I can see your house!
[21:53:54] <robin_sz> heh, indeed.
[21:54:07] <A-L-P-H-A> max zoom.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=DY12+1RB&ie=UTF8&om=1&z=19&ll=52.388567,-2.304573&spn=0.001156,0.00339&t=k&iwloc=A
[21:54:16] <A-L-P-H-A> is that an orange, or red car?
[21:54:28] <robin_sz> theres 4 houses around a courtyard, ours is the one at 4 0clock, silver car
[21:54:45] <A-L-P-H-A> with what looks to be a white car/van
[21:55:13] <robin_sz> yeah
[21:55:15] <A-L-P-H-A> that looks like a lot of grass to mow.
[21:55:30] <robin_sz> horse do that, saves time and trouble
[21:55:57] <A-L-P-H-A> I can see a windshield... man... that's a lot of details.
[21:56:48] <robin_sz> wait, I find my factory :)
[21:57:17] <A-L-P-H-A> I just wonder if you actually see the horse with shadows... that is like maybe 150 ft away, at about SE direction.
[21:58:34] <A-L-P-H-A> how does one take a screenshot in gnome?
[21:59:01] <A-L-P-H-A> brb... too much tea and coffee.
[22:02:54] <robin_sz> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=DY11+7RA&ie=UTF8&z=17&ll=52.366029,-2.244011&spn=0.004036,0.011233&t=h&om=1
[22:04:17] <robin_sz> factory is bottom right
[22:04:36] <robin_sz> and further south, across that empty field is???
[22:05:39] <A-L-P-H-A> in the middle of the empty field
[22:06:01] <robin_sz> no .. further south ..
[22:06:03] <A-L-P-H-A> that isn't the top gear building? where they digitally added "topgear"?
[22:06:29] <robin_sz> all those buildings ... with the earth banks around them
[22:06:42] <robin_sz> * robin_sz doesnt work in TV anymore
[22:07:08] <A-L-P-H-A> talking about your house, just south of your house, there's a empty field... but there's a shadow, just wondering if that was a horse.
[22:07:35] <A-L-P-H-A> looking at the buildings from your link... north east corner of ARthur Dr. and Frederick Rd?
[22:07:40] <robin_sz> mmm ... could be ... difficult to say.
[22:08:02] <A-L-P-H-A> xchat-gnome 0.13 is so nice. :)
[22:08:35] <robin_sz> arthur drive, frederick road .. yes ... 2 LARGE buildings
[22:08:45] <A-L-P-H-A> love how it groups nicks togethers, so it doesn't display the same nick over and over again if they're consecutive.
[22:08:49] <A-L-P-H-A> yes.
[22:08:52] <A-L-P-H-A> the two large buildings...
[22:09:04] <A-L-P-H-A> you own/lease them/one?
[22:09:04] <robin_sz> rh one is our steel stockholder
[22:09:07] <robin_sz> nah,
[22:09:19] <robin_sz> thats not us .. .we are smaller building ..
[22:09:33] <robin_sz> where it says road1
[22:09:39] <robin_sz> left a bit and down a bit
[22:10:04] <robin_sz> I wish there was a way of adding pins
[22:10:13] <robin_sz> anyway .. go south ...
[22:10:26] <robin_sz> across that empty field ...
[22:10:28] <A-L-P-H-A> I see a building that looks like a backwards F.
[22:11:15] <robin_sz> you should see lots of buildings, some with brown roofs
[22:11:30] <robin_sz> all in a large complex ... with earth bunkers around them
[22:11:38] <robin_sz> and blast walls :)
[22:12:45] <A-L-P-H-A> okay... I see the two LARGE buildings... just south of that, there's what seems to be like 10 or so blue trailers.
[22:13:03] <A-L-P-H-A> at the end of the street, there's a building that looks like a backwards white F.
[22:13:32] <robin_sz> hmmm .. zoom out some ...
[22:13:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ohhh... south of the empty field
[22:13:56] <Jymmm> If you click on a google map, you can use + and - keys to zoom in/out
[22:14:01] <robin_sz> yeah
[22:14:05] <robin_sz> see that complex?
[22:14:07] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: can you add pins?
[22:14:13] <A-L-P-H-A> yes I do now
[22:14:26] <robin_sz> locally people call it "the rocket factory"
[22:14:38] <A-L-P-H-A> looks like a government complex
[22:14:42] <Jymmm> pgup/pgdn/HOME/END to scroll BIGTIME, and left right up down to scroll slowly.
[22:14:56] <robin_sz> they call it that because its a rocket factory :)
[22:15:08] <Jymmm> A-L-P-H-A only thru the API
[22:15:15] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm: shib.
[22:15:40] <Jymmm> just read the api, it aint that big a deal.
[22:16:06] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.pininthemap.com/
[22:17:12] <A-L-P-H-A> anyways... time to go figure out my milling speeds.
[22:20:17] <robin_sz> pininthemap looks good
[22:21:02] <anonimasu> ?
[22:21:21] <A-L-P-H-A> MAN... how come automount for my usb CDrom doesn't work?
[22:21:44] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: nice
[22:23:18] <A-L-P-H-A> how can linux piss me off more?1?
[22:23:33] <bill20r3> make you configure XFree by hand?
[22:23:38] <anonimasu> bill20r3: that's easy..
[22:23:47] <A-L-P-H-A> bill20r3: been there. done that
[22:23:55] <anonimasu> :)
[22:24:00] <anonimasu> kde on the other hand
[22:24:01] <anonimasu> or gnome.
[22:24:04] <bill20r3> it's easy now.
[22:24:05] <anonimasu> *chuckles*
[22:24:19] <A-L-P-H-A> how to know what /dev my cdrom is even one?
[22:24:26] <A-L-P-H-A> my USB cdrom.
[22:24:36] <bill20r3> try 'cdrecord --scanbus'
[22:24:36] <anonimasu> hm, does that really end up as cdrom?
[22:24:38] <Jymmm> /dev/cdrom ?
[22:24:49] <bill20r3> usually /dev/sgX I think.
[22:24:53] <anonimasu> wouldnt that end up as a scsi emulation device like the usb harddrives?
[22:26:07] <A-L-P-H-A> screcord --scanbus returned my SATA array drives.
[22:26:18] <bill20r3> yeah, it will.
[22:26:23] <bill20r3> just that one, nothing else?
[22:26:40] <bill20r3> anything usefull from 'dmesg|tail' ?
[22:27:14] <A-L-P-H-A> k... going to turn off my cdrom, and turn it back on...
[22:27:19] <A-L-P-H-A> see what dmesg says then
[22:29:50] <A-L-P-H-A> dmesg says nothing
[22:32:23] <A-L-P-H-A> could be a FREAK'n problem, if I didn't have it plugged in
[22:32:29] <A-L-P-H-A> I'm such a dumbass
[22:32:48] <A-L-P-H-A> automounted now as well.
[22:33:18] <bill20r3> heh
[22:33:20] <anonimasu> :)
[22:33:21] <bill20r3> wewps
[22:33:39] <bill20r3> I'll take a easy answer over a hard answer every time.
[22:49:15] <A-L-P-H-A> machine specs... 110rpm to 2580 rpm (pully system), 3/4 HP ac motor. Anyone find objections to ~2000rpm speed, 2flute carbide ball nose endmill, going 16ipm? Is that sane?
[22:49:54] <A-L-P-H-A> that should be only 0.004 depth chips.
[22:51:10] <A-L-P-H-A> hey K`zan.
[22:51:23] <A-L-P-H-A> or should I be going to like 10ipm, with a SFM of 165.
[22:51:32] <A-L-P-H-A> endmill is 1/2"
[22:51:33] <A-L-P-H-A> dia
[22:55:23] <anonimasu> alpha-lappy: if your machine isnt flimsy try it..
[22:55:36] <A-L-P-H-A> nah, it isn't too bad.
[22:55:51] <anonimasu> got coolant?
[22:55:59] <A-L-P-H-A> I do for the lathe, not the mill...
[22:56:35] <anonimasu> go slow.
[22:56:54] <anonimasu> lets see how many m/min is 10 ipm?
[22:56:57] <A-L-P-H-A> well, if I got 10.1ipm, that's the rating for hss.
[22:57:09] <anonimasu> 254mm/min
[22:57:16] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[22:57:23] <anonimasu> that shouldnt be a problem
[22:57:29] <A-L-P-H-A> that's pretty slow
[22:57:33] <anonimasu> yep
[22:57:35] <A-L-P-H-A> <shrug>
[22:57:44] <anonimasu> I ran at 1m/min with my other mill..
[22:57:50] <anonimasu> though light cuts and no coolant..
[22:57:51] <A-L-P-H-A> this is a chinese mill...
[22:57:54] <anonimasu> :/
[22:58:17] <A-L-P-H-A> how light of a cut?
[22:58:36] <anonimasu> the only problem I can see is that you end up with a clogged endmill
[22:58:52] <anonimasu> I cant remember my feeds/speeds really
[22:58:53] <A-L-P-H-A> from the alu gumming it up.
[22:58:55] <anonimasu> yep
[22:59:02] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah, have had that happen a few times.
[22:59:10] <A-L-P-H-A> I can't remember what my speeds where either.
[22:59:31] <anonimasu> something like 0.03 I think I ran as chipload..
[22:59:37] <A-L-P-H-A> mm
[22:59:38] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[22:59:39] <anonimasu> 0.03 per tooth..
[22:59:50] <anonimasu> let me check
[22:59:59] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, wow. that's small light cuts
[23:00:10] <A-L-P-H-A> that's like 0.001" per tooth.
[23:00:34] <anonimasu> it sounds light.
[23:02:02] <A-L-P-H-A> time to try I guess...
[23:02:10] <A-L-P-H-A> just got to take some measurements, and then write some code.
[23:02:11] <anonimasu> I cant remember..
[23:02:18] <anonimasu> sorry, 0.03 isnt right
[23:03:38] <anonimasu> :)
[23:05:04] <A-L-P-H-A> where was that gcode reference page for emc again?
[23:05:21] <anonimasu> no idea
[23:06:31] <anonimasu> http://www.linuxcnc.org/EMC2_User_Manual.pdf
[23:06:33] <anonimasu> there
[23:06:42] <A-L-P-H-A> http://axis.unpy.net/files//gcode.html
[23:12:10] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: how is it cutting?
[23:12:25] <A-L-P-H-A> drawing the gcode... but I'm getting annoyed at it.
[23:12:33] <A-L-P-H-A> brb... going to the emc machine and I'll just code it by hand
[23:12:35] <anonimasu> ok
[23:13:46] <ALPHA-EMC> lala
[23:15:43] <anonimasu> *jealous*
[23:15:56] <anonimasu> I'd really like to cnc something ;)
[23:16:14] <anonimasu> I cant wait until my machine is togther
[23:16:25] <Jymmm> anonimasu I thought your machine was mostly together?
[23:16:34] <anonimasu> Jymmm: yeah it is
[23:16:55] <anonimasu> though I dont have a spindle yet ;)
[23:17:00] <Jymmm> ah
[23:17:09] <anonimasu> going to order parts tomorrow
[23:17:12] <Jymmm> have you been looking?
[23:17:27] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:17:34] <Jymmm> any luck?
[23:18:11] <anonimasu> after spindles?
[23:18:24] <Jymmm> no noodles. Yes spindles =)
[23:18:35] <anonimasu> heh
[23:18:39] <anonimasu> im building one
[23:18:45] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[23:19:06] <anonimasu> hydraulic :)
[23:19:17] <anonimasu> as putting a 5kw motor on top of the mill is impossible
[23:19:36] <Jymmm> will you get the same hp out of it?
[23:19:49] <Jymmm> can you control the speed (other than pulleys) ?
[23:19:56] <anonimasu> yes
[23:20:03] <Jymmm> Paper or Plastic?
[23:20:09] <robin_sz> I thought hydraulic motors were sloooow
[23:20:15] <anonimasu> robin_sz: small ones arent.
[23:20:16] <robin_sz> like 2000 rpm max
[23:20:24] <robin_sz> 5kw ones?
[23:20:29] <anonimasu> robin_sz: that's the electric motor..
[23:20:52] <robin_sz> and how many kw is the hydraulic one?
[23:21:05] <anonimasu> same as the electric one..
[23:21:07] <anonimasu> almost..
[23:21:24] <robin_sz> and how many rpm?
[23:21:27] <Jymmm> how many kw == 1 hp ?
[23:21:37] <robin_sz> 0.746
[23:21:42] <Jymmm> k
[23:21:49] <anonimasu> 5*1.36=hp
[23:22:07] <Jymmm> 6.8
[23:22:09] <anonimasu> err 5kw is wrong.
[23:22:20] <anonimasu> my memory is broken
[23:22:31] <robin_sz> and how many rpm?
[23:22:31] <anonimasu> it's around 4hp.
[23:24:10] <anonimasu> I think 6000 was what we calculated for..
[23:25:09] <anonimasu> the huydralic motor weighs < 1kg
[23:25:37] <ALPHA-EMC> this sucks... no studs to hold this thin down with.
[23:25:57] <anonimasu> :(
[23:26:50] <ALPHA-EMC> damn vise is 2mm too small
[23:27:36] <Jymmm> can you use the vise as a sorta reverse clamp?
[23:28:15] <Jymmm> opening the vise to clamp againest I mean.
[23:28:20] <anonimasu> yeah 4000 is the motor rpm.. but that's for a similiar motor
[23:28:55] <K`zan> A-L-P-H-A: Hey, G'day!
[23:32:15] <K`zan> Off to make chips and crank, crank, crank...
[23:32:40] <ALPHA-EMC> okie.
[23:32:41] <ALPHA-EMC> :)
[23:32:45] <ALPHA-EMC> found studs
[23:32:47] <anonimasu> ALPHA-EMC: good luck
[23:32:47] <ALPHA-EMC> clamped
[23:32:52] <ALPHA-EMC> firing up emc
[23:33:00] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[23:33:09] <anonimasu> I cant even rember how we calced the speed/power/stuff
[23:34:01] <anonimasu> http://www.jihostroj.cz/u-images/tm2.jpg
[23:34:03] <ALPHA-EMC> oops this is a 3ft ball nose.
[23:34:03] <anonimasu> something like that
[23:34:04] <ALPHA-EMC> :D
[23:34:25] <anonimasu> nice little machine ^_^
[23:35:26] <ALPHA-EMC> how do I get axis to jog?
[23:35:34] <ALPHA-EMC> ALPHA-EMC is now known as alpha-emc
[23:35:43] <alpha-emc> via the kb
[23:36:03] <alpha-emc> nm
[23:36:09] <alpha-emc> I had the jog speed way too low
[23:39:12] <alpha-emc> okie... aligned and everything... well... well enough aligned
[23:39:53] <anonimasu> I'd like to see that 3ft ballnose cut ;)
[23:40:04] <Jymmm> lol
[23:40:10] <Jymmm> anonimasu evil, aint ya =)
[23:40:12] <alpha-emc> maybe... but I'd have to setup my camera and stuff...
[23:40:24] <anonimasu> Jymmm: haha, large stuff rocks ;)
[23:40:35] <anonimasu> alpha-emc: it's ok :) though im curious
[23:40:43] <anonimasu> I'm 95% on my way into bed
[23:40:51] <Jymmm> anonimasu: I got 24" x 24" x 6" travel. So, large stuff sucks =(
[23:40:56] <anonimasu> Jymmm: I'm waiting for a nut for my y axis ballscrew
[23:41:02] <anonimasu> :)
[23:41:20] <anonimasu> not ballnut, just nut..
[23:41:32] <Jymmm> acme ?
[23:42:00] <anonimasu> no KM
[23:42:26] <anonimasu> http://www.whittet-higgins.com/part.php?series_id=43
[23:42:35] <anonimasu> to fix the screw to the bearing mount
[23:42:45] <Jymmm> ah
[23:42:55] <anonimasu> I could have made one
[23:43:23] <anonimasu> but ordering was easier
[23:43:30] <Jymmm> =)
[23:44:20] <anonimasu> then I just need to align and screw it all togther
[23:44:33] <anonimasu> should be pretty easy :)
[23:45:32] <anonimasu> I'm going to spin the mill as soon as it's mounted
[23:45:44] <anonimasu> see if I should order a larger servo for x
[23:45:45] <anonimasu> :)
[23:47:15] <anonimasu> the one I have should work, though 200w more wouldnt hurt
[23:48:13] <anonimasu> * anonimasu feels like being able to use pretty much preload
[23:48:35] <anonimasu> tightly adjusted gib's..
[23:49:10] <anonimasu> well
[23:49:11] <anonimasu> goodnight :)
[23:51:52] <alpha-emc> system works.
[23:52:18] <alpha-emc> just noisy as hell, as the sheet metal stand vibrates like freak'n hell, causing a huge ruckuss.
[23:53:25] <alpha-emc> 1910 rpm (read off chart), 3ft carbide, 16ipm, works fine... eed to make a new stand that won't virabte as much. this is insanely noisy.
[23:54:22] <alpha-emc> going back to the workstation
