#emc | Logs for 2007-01-08

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[02:22:42] <A-L-P-H-A> shit jymmm isn't around.
[02:29:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: trivial typo fix
[02:29:36] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/gcode/main.lyx: merge rev 1.16: trivial typo fix
[02:29:40] <roel01> hi
[02:29:46] <jepler> hello roel01
[02:30:32] <jmkasunich> hello
[02:31:28] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: refer to proper m-code to enable/disable adaptive feed
[02:31:52] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: merge rev 1.3: refer to proper m-code to enable/disable adaptive feed
[02:32:30] <roel01> any of us cutting with lasers !!
[02:32:43] <roel01> steel !
[02:35:10] <jepler> I have seen some other people talking about it
[02:37:10] <roel01> i know robin did - how many power i neet for 6mm c45 steel
[02:40:04] <jepler> I don't know anything about lasers but this page may provide some information: http://ils.pennnet.com/display_article/278187/39/ARTCL/none/Feat/Determining-cost-effective-CO2-laser-cutting/
[02:43:43] <roel01> <japler>wow they talk about 4 to 7 kw today
[02:44:39] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: document motion.feed-hold. typo fixes. markup improvements.
[02:46:00] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/config/emc2hal.lyx: merge rev 1.4: document motion.feed-hold. typo fixes. markup improvements.
[02:51:14] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: since it's been broken for quite awhile (and is not very useful) admit that -ini is required
[02:52:19] <jmkasunich> I'm glad that's done....
[02:53:28] <jmkasunich> removed unacceptably bulky and stiff 10AWG stranded leads from an inductor, and attached 14AWG leades instead
[02:53:49] <jmkasunich> the originals were crimped direclty to the very short solid magnet wire leadouts of the coil
[02:54:03] <SWPadnos> what did you use as a replacement crimp?
[02:54:06] <jmkasunich> I didn't
[02:54:10] <SWPadnos> oh
[02:54:34] <jmkasunich> I had some small brass tube thats a nice fit on the leadouts and a wee bit loose on the 14AWG
[02:54:40] <jmkasunich> used that, and soldered
[02:54:50] <SWPadnos> ah, ok.
[02:55:23] <jmkasunich> getting the old splices off was a pain
[02:55:24] <SWPadnos> I split the wires from the center tap on my toroid, but I wanted to replace the connection with a pair of solderless connections, as the original had been
[02:55:33] <SWPadnos> yes, I think I used a dremel cutting wheel ;)
[02:55:41] <jmkasunich> jewler saw
[02:57:04] <jepler> I looked at that and wondered what it was that I saw
[02:57:48] <SWPadnos> ?
[02:57:58] <jmkasunich> oops
[02:58:04] <jmkasunich> jeweler's saw
[02:58:53] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: add missing quotes around translated string
[03:00:44] <jmkasunich> quality control tonight, eh Jeff?
[03:01:21] <jepler> sometimes I try to make obviously correct changes :)
[03:01:23] <jmkasunich> an underappreciated task
[03:01:30] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: when there is a homing order defined, switch the Home button to a Home All button
[03:02:14] <jepler> but then I get back to making changes that will no doubt bite me in the ass because I didn't think them through fully ^^^
[03:07:09] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: do you have a gut feel for temp rise for smallish heatsinks and power dissipation? my years of high power have ruined my estimating ability
[03:07:39] <jmkasunich> I have a bleeder resistor that dissipates 11 watts all the time , and a diode bridge that should come in at about 12 watts at full load
[03:08:00] <SWPadnos> I don't think my years of being near others designing high and low power stuff has helped me any :)
[03:08:10] <jmkasunich> I have a 8x8 piece of 1/8" aluminum that is my panel, but there are relay sockets and a disconnect mounted on the other side
[03:08:46] <SWPadnos> well, with enough forced air, a 2x2 x 1" high HSF can cool a CPU that dissipates 50+ watts ...
[03:08:59] <jmkasunich> keyword forced
[03:09:06] <SWPadnos> keywords: enough forced ...
[03:09:11] <SWPadnos> :)
[03:09:40] <jmkasunich> I'm not worried about the resistor itself - its rated at 50 watts
[03:09:50] <jmkasunich> but it does 50 watts by rising to about 150-200C
[03:09:56] <SWPadnos> I think it really depends on how much air the panel is exposed to. you could heat a house with a candle if it were perfectly insulated ...
[03:10:02] <SWPadnos> right
[03:10:10] <jmkasunich> I don't want the diode bridge or relay sockets going over about 60C
[03:10:35] <SWPadnos> if you want only a ~50C rise, it'll dissipate e^-3 times as well (I think)
[03:11:10] <SWPadnos> or is that e^1/3 ?
[03:11:33] <jmkasunich> dunno
[03:11:48] <SWPadnos> (1/3 being the rough ratio of the temp. difference at 50C rise vs. 150C or thereabouts)
[03:12:14] <jmkasunich> I have a heatsink here that I could cut a suitable chunk off of and mount everything on that, but I suspect thats another case of jmk overkill
[03:12:27] <SWPadnos> you haven't seen my heatsink then ;)
[03:12:40] <SWPadnos> you won't feel like you're overkilling if you do
[03:13:02] <jmkasunich> I'm not talking about heatsinking the drives, I have a nice one for that
[03:13:17] <jmkasunich> I'm talking about heatsinking the DC bus bleeder resistor
[03:13:42] <jmkasunich> you know, just "saying" it out loud like that is enough to convince me - a sink would be dumb
[03:13:46] <SWPadnos> right. I have a large HS that I plan to saw in half for the geckos (one side) and the bridge / bleeder on the other
[03:14:22] <jmkasunich> saw it 1/3 and 2/3
[03:14:29] <SWPadnos> actually, check the datasheet for the diode bridge - that should have a recommended amount of heatsink, and should give you a gauge for low power stuff
[03:14:36] <jmkasunich> the bridge and bleeder won't be anywhere _near_ the gecko dissipation
[03:15:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - something along those lines. half, then half again so I can add a fourth gecko, and the remaining quarter has the diode bridge and bleeder(s)
[03:17:00] <jmkasunich> datasheet doesn't help much
[03:17:03] <SWPadnos> bummer
[03:17:13] <jmkasunich> it tells me the max Tj and Tc, and the internal thermal resistance
[03:17:33] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:17:40] <jmkasunich> what I really want to know is the Rth-sa for a piece of aluminum sheet
[03:18:05] <jmkasunich> then I can decide if the chassis is adequate
[03:20:17] <SWPadnos> is the 8x8" sheet intact other than the mounting holes for the stuff on the other side?
[03:20:32] <jmkasunich> pretty much
[03:20:53] <jmkasunich> couple holes with grommets for wires to pass thru, etv
[03:20:57] <jmkasunich> etc
[03:21:22] <SWPadnos> ok. I'm sure that's fine, though it will get quite warm (if the resistor is in circuit all the time)
[03:21:37] <jmkasunich> it is (on all the time)
[03:22:04] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: add 'homing' menu
[03:22:05] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/share/axis/tcl/axis.tcl: add 'homing' menu
[03:22:17] <SWPadnos> ok. 11W isn't that much, and you're talking about almost the same surface area as a CPU sink
[03:22:20] <jepler> 'night folks
[03:22:28] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[03:22:27] <SWPadnos> good night jepler
[03:22:32] <jmkasunich> thanks for all the work
[03:23:06] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: thats not a reassuring comparison - CPU sinks have fans
[03:23:18] <SWPadnos> yeah, but they also dissipate 10x the power
[03:23:38] <jmkasunich> I was thinking 5x, but I guess some get up to 100w
[03:23:38] <SWPadnos> with a pretty low delta T
[03:23:58] <SWPadnos> 95W for an Opteron, 130 for some older ones (even Athlons) and more for P4 ...
[03:24:08] <jmkasunich> its tempting to mount the diode on the big plate, mount the resistors on a smaller plate and space it off of the main plate
[03:24:11] <SWPadnos> but with only ~20-30C temp rise
[03:24:20] <jmkasunich> let it get hot, I don't care if that one hits 120C
[03:24:25] <jmkasunich> as long as no wires touch it
[03:24:51] <SWPadnos> do you expect the current to be high enough that the bridge will be dissipating more than the resistor?
[03:24:59] <SWPadnos> true
[03:24:59] <jmkasunich> not often
[03:25:35] <SWPadnos> if you have extra space on the plate, you can also just bolt a CPU heatsink to it somewhere. it'll radiate better that way
[03:25:51] <SWPadnos> though the cabinet will get warm unless you have some way of getting the heat out efficiently
[03:26:05] <jmkasunich> overall box cooling is another issue
[03:26:16] <SWPadnos> yep. that's the one you have to figure out first ...
[03:26:31] <SWPadnos> or just leave it open with a fan pointing inside :)
[03:26:33] <jmkasunich> I believe I'm going to have maybe 50 cfm coming in the bottom thru a filter, and exiting near the top
[03:26:43] <SWPadnos> ok, that should do some good
[03:27:05] <jmkasunich> the 11 to 23 watts from this assembly is only a small part of the total
[03:27:15] <SWPadnos> ok
[03:27:15] <jmkasunich> 18W x 3 for the geckos
[03:27:27] <jmkasunich> unknown losses in the spindle VFD
[03:27:32] <jmkasunich> hmm, lets gestimate that
[03:27:36] <SWPadnos> computer @ 30-50W
[03:27:45] <SWPadnos> unless you vent its fan
[03:28:12] <jmkasunich> 1 HP = 746 watts, 95% efficient means 5% loss = 40 or so watts
[03:28:48] <SWPadnos> plus the controls and stuff (that isn't included in overall efficiency, is it?)
[03:28:56] <jmkasunich> right
[03:29:08] <jmkasunich> I tend to neglect that part, when the 5% is thousands of watts
[03:29:13] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:29:17] <jmkasunich> the overall total probably approaches 200W
[03:29:30] <SWPadnos> and the case is painted steel?
[03:29:36] <jmkasunich> yes
[03:29:44] <jmkasunich> I already did that analysis...
[03:29:48] <SWPadnos> stick a couple of light bulbs in it and see how hot it gets :)
[03:29:51] <jmkasunich> completely closed and sealed won't fly
[03:30:06] <SWPadnos> put in the filtered fan and a couple of 100W bulbs
[03:30:27] <jmkasunich> but 50CFM will limit the rise with 300W inside to about 10-15C
[03:30:44] <jmkasunich> so 40-45C in the box when the basement is 30C in the summer
[03:30:48] <SWPadnos> is it 50 CFM with the filter, ot a 50CFM fan plus a filter?
[03:30:56] <SWPadnos> s/ot/or/
[03:31:05] <jmkasunich> its just "I will have 50 CFM" right now
[03:31:10] <SWPadnos> heh - ok :)
[03:31:10] <jmkasunich> fan and filter haven't been selected
[03:31:35] <jmkasunich> I have a crapload of fans here - for some reason I find it even harder to throw away fans than I do most other junk
[03:31:46] <SWPadnos> you should get theat checked
[03:31:48] <SWPadnos> that
[03:32:07] <jmkasunich> little ones, big ones, 12V ones, 24V ones, 120V ones, blowers, you name it, I probably have one
[03:32:33] <jmkasunich> I'm thinking a large 24V fan running on 12V
[03:32:49] <jmkasunich> that means low air velocity thru a large filter - less crap dragged in by the air
[03:33:11] <jmkasunich> and longer MTBC
[03:33:30] <SWPadnos> Mean Time Between Crap-outs?
[03:33:35] <jmkasunich> clogging
[03:33:38] <jmkasunich> or cleaning
[03:33:38] <Jymmm> what he said
[03:33:39] <SWPadnos> ah
[03:35:13] <jmkasunich> I have this strange idea in the back of my head to exhaust the air at the top right corner of the box thru the back wall, into the space between the new spindle motor and the back of the box, then let it flow thru the motor fins to the other end of the motor before exiting
[03:35:22] <jmkasunich> but thats down the road a ways
[03:38:01] <jmkasunich> found a piece of aluminum wide enough to neatly mount the 3 resistors (1 bleeder and 2 precharge)
[03:38:19] <jmkasunich> I'm gonna stand it off the main plate so air can hit both sides, and heat won't get into the main plate
[03:38:38] <jmkasunich> thats a compromize between a full-fleged heatsink, and just using the plate
[03:39:17] <jmkasunich> that way the diode can use the entire plate as its sink - it will be plenty cool
[03:39:40] <SWPadnos> sounds like a reasonable plan
[03:58:48] <cradek> cool, jepler put 'home all' sanely in axis
[04:05:02] <jmkasunich> as opposed to insanely?
[04:06:08] <cradek> yeah, I guess
[04:07:06] <cradek> 32773 float IN 1 comp.0.in0 <== Xhomeswpos
[04:07:07] <cradek> 32773 float IN 6.430167 comp.0.in1 <== Xpos
[04:07:07] <cradek> 32773 bit OUT TRUE comp.0.out ==> Xhomesw
[04:07:23] <cradek> what am I missing here?
[04:07:29] <cradek> 32773 float RW 0.01 comp.0.hyst
[04:07:29] <cradek> 32773 s32 RO 103 comp.0.time
[04:07:29] <cradek> 32773 s32 RW 82179 comp.0.tmax
[04:07:55] <jmkasunich> in1 is > in0, so out is true
[04:08:10] <jmkasunich> you passed the switch (by a lot)
[04:08:29] <jmkasunich> (I assume you know its a simulated switch)
[04:08:44] <cradek> oh, this block is greaterthan, not equalto
[04:08:58] <jmkasunich> there is no equal-to in the analog world
[04:09:16] <jmkasunich> comp = 1/4 LM339
[04:09:20] <cradek> "The output changes when the magnitude of the difference exceeds the hysteresis."
[04:09:26] <jmkasunich> or an LM311 if you prefer
[04:09:43] <cradek> that means little to me (and neither does this man page)
[04:10:16] <cradek> oh ok, I see "inverting" and "non-inverting" now
[04:10:24] <cradek> I didn't read all the words
[04:12:29] <jmkasunich> I wish I had a real unibit instead of this two-fluted taiwanese knock-off
[04:16:24] <cradek> mine have one flute, and they don't work much better
[04:16:38] <cradek> I wonder if the one with steps is better
[04:18:05] <cradek> now I don't understand "As long as the hysteresis is unchanged, the output is unchanged."
[04:18:45] <cradek> it seems wrong, but maybe it's supposed to mean something else and is just badly worded?
[04:19:29] <jmkasunich> that last sentence didn't make any sense to me either
[04:19:48] <cradek> I think it means to say "as long as the difference stays within the hysteresis, the output doesn't change"
[04:20:01] <cradek> but I think that's wrong too, since it's 2*hyst as the component is written
[04:20:03] <jmkasunich> yah
[04:20:32] <cradek> err, maybe it's not
[04:20:49] <jmkasunich> as long as the difference is within +/- hystersis, the output remains unchanged\
[04:20:55] <jmkasunich> that is a range of 2 x hyst
[04:28:05] <cradek> I'm finding definitions like 'The distance between the switching "on" point of the actuator approach and the switching "off" point of the actuator retreat.' which is more like what I expect (the range is hyst, not 2*hyst)
[04:28:31] <cradek> (I know we've had this discussion about deadband too)
[04:28:31] <jmkasunich> feel free to fix the behavior
[04:28:56] <cradek> do you also think it's wrong?
[04:29:07] <cradek> I will fix at least the documentation
[04:29:24] <jmkasunich> I think I agree that it should be 1x, not 2x
[04:29:48] <cradek> ok
[04:30:08] <jmkasunich> when I add 5mV of hystersis to an analog comparator with positive feedback from the output, it means 5mV between the two thresholds, not that each one is 5mV from nominal
[04:30:17] <cradek> right
[04:30:40] <cradek> if you plot out vs in, that's the width you see
[04:31:09] <ejholmgren> when a wallwart states that it can provide 12V @ 300mA ...
[04:31:20] <ejholmgren> what limits it to only 300mA?
[04:31:29] <cradek> the melting of the plastic case
[04:31:37] <jmkasunich> the load better not draw more than 300mA, nothing limits it
[04:31:37] <ejholmgren> it's just a transformer, a few diodes, and a cap?
[04:31:56] <cradek> yes, and sometimes not even a cap
[04:32:03] <jmkasunich> might have a regulator in it, but current limit might be rudimentary or missing
[04:32:13] <cradek> and sometimes just one diode!
[04:32:31] <jmkasunich> the spec on the nameplate means "you can draw 300mA at 12V from this thing" NOT "this thing will limit its output to 300mA"
[04:33:10] <ejholmgren> I cracked one open to put inside of the case for my parport relay project
[04:33:14] <cradek> also if you draw less you might get a (much) higher voltage
[04:33:29] <cradek> so if it's critical, measure the particular wallwart
[04:34:33] <ejholmgren> from what it looks like ...
[04:34:49] <ejholmgren> each of the 8 outputs are hooked up to a transistor array
[04:35:01] <ejholmgren> which switch the relays with 12V
[04:36:31] <ejholmgren> guess I should measure the actual voltage of the wart I cracked upen
[04:37:05] <ejholmgren> and figure out the draw of each relay when it's held open
[04:44:20] <cradek> jmkasunich: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/comp.man.png
[04:45:00] <cradek> jmkasunich: is this (1) right and (2) as clear as possible without being too wordy?
[04:45:43] <cradek> hysteresis is such a simple thing but it's hard to explain if someone doesn't know what it is
[04:46:35] <jmkasunich> looks great to me
[04:46:44] <jmkasunich> a better judge would be someone who doesn
[04:46:55] <jmkasunich> doesn't know what hystersis is
[04:47:07] <cradek> still better would be a tech writer who doesn't know what it is :-)
[04:47:19] <cradek> I'll check it in, thanks
[04:47:46] <cradek> my cat thinks she's a rhinoceros
[04:47:54] <cradek> she head-butts my chin
[04:48:03] <jmkasunich> we
[04:48:08] <jmkasunich> we've had cats that do that
[04:48:19] <jmkasunich> including our one remaining one
[04:48:32] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/comp.comp: fix hysteresis specification and clarify the docs
[04:49:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/comp.comp: fix hysteresis specification and clarify the docs
[04:49:22] <jmkasunich> all this checking, documenting, and other work makes me feel like I should be working on EMC instead of this project
[04:49:46] <SWPadnos> the more developers with actual equipment, the better :)
[04:50:04] <cradek> I sympathize with both viewpoints
[04:50:09] <SWPadnos> actual CNC equipment, that is
[04:50:19] <SWPadnos> ideally controlled by emc2 ...
[04:50:30] <cradek> it's easier to "test" if you're trying to get hardware to work
[04:50:46] <Jymmm> whatcha checking?
[04:50:53] <SWPadnos> yep, and it's easier to tell what's a problem when you're moving iron
[04:50:55] <Jymmm> gecko stuff???
[04:51:07] <cradek> Jymmm: ?
[04:51:21] <Jymmm> cradek if ref to jmkasunich comment
[04:51:24] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, nothing in particular, but as a developer ...
[04:51:41] <SWPadnos> (one should try to see what their changes do in the real world)
[04:51:45] <cradek> now she wants to eat the LED on the monitor
[04:51:55] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Ah, yeah. I've ALWAYS wondered about that with most of you guys over the last year or so.
[04:52:01] <SWPadnos> must be a fish, too - likes bright shiny things
[04:52:23] <cradek> great, a fish-rhinoceros
[04:52:44] <cradek> fruit-loop is more like it
[04:52:50] <ejholmgren> my cat jut broke the slide out keyboard tray
[04:52:51] <SWPadnos> hmmm - wouldnt' that be something like a platypus?
[04:52:55] <ejholmgren> ... great
[04:53:02] <ejholmgren> maybe it needs to go on a diet
[04:53:32] <cradek> so what does everyone else think about deadband?
[04:54:13] <cradek> I think it's wrong but I would be hesitant to change it
[04:55:19] <Jymmm> deadband as in stepper stalling?
[04:55:50] <cradek> forget it - it's too late to talk about it
[04:55:56] <Jymmm> k
[04:59:15] <cradek> applesauce?
[04:59:23] <SWPadnos> the cat?
[04:59:27] <jmkasunich> great planning - the capacitors are on top of the (countersunk) screws that hold the inductor on the back of the panel, and the inductor is on top of the nuts that hold the capacitors.... is that great planning or what?
[04:59:42] <cradek> SWPadnos: maybe - I didn't think of that.
[05:00:07] <SWPadnos> jmkasunich, that depends on whether you can tighten all the fasteners with the electrical components in place :)
[05:00:21] <jmkasunich> fortunately the inductor screws are only partly under the cap
[05:00:27] <jmkasunich> I can turn them, but not remove them
[05:03:28] <jmkasunich> I believe the technical term for this situation is "fuckup"
[05:04:03] <SWPadnos> heh
[05:05:09] <SWPadnos> was the component interference model approved by management?
[05:05:46] <jmkasunich> I'm management and labor, so yes
[05:05:57] <jmkasunich> signed off by engineering too
[05:06:22] <SWPadnos> oh, as long as you're doing all the ISO9004 or whaetver paperwork ;)
[05:06:56] <SWPadnos> I guess you wou;dn't be beyond ISO9002 for this (?)
[05:07:21] <jmkasunich> ISO(sqrt(-1)
[05:07:37] <SWPadnos> i see
[05:07:50] <SWPadnos> ISO9000+1i
[05:08:35] <jmkasunich> ISO-go-to-hell-you-paper-pushing-wankers
[05:08:58] <SWPadnos> oh that one - even I'm qualified for that :)
[05:09:34] <jmkasunich> alright, who stole my contactor!?
[05:09:47] <SWPadnos> the cat!
[05:10:29] <jmkasunich> cradek, your cat stole my contactor - make her give it back!
[05:12:27] <jmkasunich> note to self: remember which parts are actually mounted, and which ones are simple setting in place for visualization, _before_ flipping the panel over to look at the other side
[05:12:46] <SWPadnos> hah
[05:13:43] <SWPadnos> one of my old business partners would tack-solder parts in place (like 40-pin DIPs), and then forget which ones he had actually finished ...
[05:13:44] <cradek> jmkasunich: if so I could make a fortune replacing fed-ex
[05:13:48] <SWPadnos> made testing really fun
[05:14:04] <SWPadnos> cradek/schroedinger's cat ...
[05:14:11] <SWPadnos> express delivery/removal
[05:14:24] <cradek> SWPadnos: I've been bitten many times by soldering only the "needed" pins
[05:14:42] <cradek> SWPadnos: especially on two sided non-plated-through PCBs
[05:15:12] <SWPadnos> yeah - the theory was that you only fiddle with parts for a minute or two, then "bulk solder" all the connections (faster for production)
[05:15:16] <jmkasunich> cradek: except the cat would deliver things to the wrong address...
[05:15:30] <SWPadnos> but it's slower when someone has to check your work very carefully every time :)
[05:16:34] <jmkasunich> this is gonna be a very crowded panel
[05:16:38] <cradek> jmkasunich: yeah, I doubt she can read very well
[05:18:31] <jmkasunich> even if she could read, she's a cat... since when has a cat done what a human wanted them to do?
[05:19:42] <cradek> well, if you can think like a cat, you can sometimes outsmart them. cat food would probably be involved somehow.
[05:29:39] <jmkasunich> is CIA slacking again?
[05:30:22] <cradek> * cradek kicks CIA-8
[05:30:22] <CIA-8> ow
[05:36:00] <cradek> hmm, someone occasionally responds to the cvs commit emails
[05:36:17] <SWPadnos> really?
[05:36:19] <cradek> ... expecting it to go to the person who made the change
[05:36:28] <cradek> yes, one person, several times
[05:37:05] <jmkasunich> I sometimes "respond" by copying part of the commit message and sending to the dev list
[05:37:09] <jmkasunich> or the committer
[05:37:19] <SWPadnos> back when they had the committer as the FROM address, I could imagine that ...
[05:37:20] <cradek> that would actually be nice, I wonder if it's worth the trouble
[05:37:44] <cradek> hmm, it goes through sf - it would be a nightmare
[05:37:56] <cradek> iirc we had to play games to get them to accept the cvs server's mails
[05:37:57] <SWPadnos> that's how it used to work
[05:38:00] <SWPadnos> ok
[05:38:24] <SWPadnos> the commits shouldn't be through sf - unless CIA only works with SF projects
[05:39:04] <cradek> that's the easiest way for us to admin the commit list
[05:39:15] <cradek> people can subscribe, unsub, digest, etc.
[05:39:37] <cradek> the commit list is not just for developers
[05:39:37] <SWPadnos> ah - the problem is the list of people who get the commit messages (not the genreation of the messages)
[05:39:49] <cradek> yes
[05:40:04] <cradek> any interested user should be able to get commit emails as easily as -users or -devel emails
[05:40:20] <SWPadnos> actually, you should be able to set the FROM address as cia, but the REPLY-TO as the committer
[05:40:50] <cradek> maybe that would work
[05:40:57] <cradek> (but I'd need to maintain that list of emails)
[05:41:23] <SWPadnos> the commit emails used to have the developer as the FROM address
[05:41:39] <cradek> yes
[05:42:01] <SWPadnos> you only need to maintain the list of ceveloper emails (which you already do)
[05:42:05] <SWPadnos> developer
[05:42:06] <cradek> maybe I could Reply-To: [committer's username]@mail.sf.net
[05:42:28] <jmkasunich> SWPadnos: he doesn't have a list of emails today
[05:42:29] <SWPadnos> it used to be @users.sourceforge.net
[05:42:33] <jmkasunich> just users on the cvs account
[05:42:34] <cradek> assuming they all match the sf logins, which I'm 60% sure they do
[05:43:05] <SWPadnos> err - nevermind. I;m confusing CIA and the commit messages - duh
[05:43:05] <jmkasunich> bedtime for me...
[05:43:09] <ds3> wow AXIS is pretty nice once you have a reasonable machine
[05:43:22] <SWPadnos> night jmkasunich
[05:43:40] <cradek> ds3: glad to hear that
[05:44:12] <ds3> it was abysmal last night on a Pentium 200 laptop; but now on a K6-2 500, it appears usable
[05:44:31] <SWPadnos> ok. I guess SF was special in that their CVS server can email to an SF list, since it's
[05:44:39] <SWPadnos> ... "local" to the server
[05:44:52] <cradek> yeah.
[05:45:02] <cradek> ds3: that's still not real fast I bet
[05:45:03] <SWPadnos> ds3, I'm sure the 3D graphics support on the laptop was also not helping :)
[05:45:38] <ds3> SWPadnos, not like I have decent 3D on this newer box either
[05:45:53] <ds3> now to do a permanent HD install so I can try it on a real machine
[05:46:08] <SWPadnos> heh - adding a generation to the CPU and to the video card gives you a double-speedup, which is good
[05:46:15] <cradek> it's important to us that it works ok with software rendering - it's very hard to get realtime and accelerated GL to work together
[05:47:14] <cradek> I'm surprised you could boot the dapper CD on a pentium 200 laptop. Can't imagine many of them had enough RAM
[05:47:30] <ds3> I didn't use the liveCD
[05:47:43] <ds3> Ubuntu alternate text mode install; then drop in EMC
[05:47:47] <cradek> ah
[05:48:16] <ds3> any know if the magma kernels have I2C/LM_Sensors compiled in?
[05:48:45] <SWPadnos> you can check the kernel .config
[05:49:05] <cradek> they have pretty much everything the base dapper kernel has, minus the power control stuff like ACPI
[05:49:05] <ds3> is the one on the LiveCD the same as the normal magmma kernel?
[05:49:16] <cradek> yes
[05:49:23] <ds3> okay
[05:49:24] <cradek> just look in /boot for the config
[05:49:33] <ds3> thinking of using one of the fan inputs as a tach for the spindle =)
[05:50:01] <cradek> that's the nuttiest thing I've ever heard
[05:50:10] <SWPadnos> interesting idea. pretty bad resolution and no isolation, but a cool idea :)
[05:50:13] <ds3> what's wrong with it?
[05:50:26] <ds3> why is isolation an issue?
[05:50:30] <SWPadnos> slow, low res, single sensor only
[05:50:31] <cradek> I didn't say anything was wrong with it - just that it's nutty
[05:50:46] <ds3> this is on a mill and I am not using it to sync the spindle
[05:51:03] <ds3> I just have a SCR based DC motor controller w/o any other calibrations so I need to know the ball park speed
[05:51:23] <SWPadnos> well, those pins go from a motherboard chip to something that's supposed to be in the computer case, powered from the computer power supply
[05:51:24] <ds3> the plan is to use an optical pickup powered by the PC power supply so isolation, AFAIK, is irrelevant
[05:51:25] <cradek> so you'll generate pwm with a pid?
[05:51:47] <ds3> nothing that complex; just something that reads the sensors and outputs to a LCD
[05:51:47] <SWPadnos> components on the motherboard are extremely sensitive to voltage irregularities
[05:51:58] <cradek> you could also use the same optical pickup on a parport pin
[05:52:16] <SWPadnos> cradek, maybe not - the chipsets do fan speed monitoring
[05:52:21] <cradek> ah, I'd be tempted to do closed-loop speed control with emc2
[05:52:33] <SWPadnos> it's a single pulse tach, but it is in hardware (I think)
[05:52:38] <ds3> but the fan inputs just take a open collector input so there shouldn't be an active drive
[05:52:47] <cradek> then you could use VCP with AXIS to get a spindle speed display too
[05:53:11] <cradek> SWPadnos: I see
[05:53:12] <ds3> yeah, the chip is doing the counting; too lazy to wire up a PIC and I don't want increase interrupt load on the already painly slow parallel port
[05:53:15] <ds3> VCP?
[05:53:23] <SWPadnos> I'm not trying to discourage you - I think it's a great idea. you should just know that there are possible issues :)
[05:53:50] <SWPadnos> consumer PCs aren't meant to take industrial noise
[05:53:50] <ds3> *nod* that's why I am using old MB's I have lying around. really recycling my 'junk box' here
[05:54:28] <ds3> even putting in a ground clamp diode is easier then wiring up a DIP-16 PIC and programming it ;)
[05:55:19] <SWPadnos> true. an AVR would probably be easier ;)
[05:55:34] <cradek> haha
[05:56:09] <ds3> but then I would have to wire up a AVR programmer
[05:56:21] <cradek> 5 wires, a DB25
[05:56:22] <SWPadnos> it's pretty amazing that the PIC is like kleenex in the microcontroller world, even though they suck so badly
[05:56:41] <SWPadnos> (ie, nobody says "microcontroller" or "facial tissues")
[05:56:56] <cradek> if I see bit-banged serial on a PIC once more I think I'll be sick
[05:56:58] <ds3> AVRs weren't that common when I started messing with it and sourcing them was hard (compared to a PIC)
[05:57:09] <cradek> yep I think that's why
[05:57:12] <SWPadnos> true. they started out more expensive as well
[05:57:27] <cradek> I used to use them too, but jumped ship fast when I saw the benefits (gcc in particular)
[05:57:41] <SWPadnos> most people don't realize that the PIC started out as a college project ...
[05:57:52] <ejholmgren> is there such a thing as a terminal block where all the connections are on the same plane?
[05:58:04] <SWPadnos> I was particularly enamored of the functional carry bit, among other things :)
[05:58:11] <ds3> I've tried both and don't really matter which one
[05:58:14] <ejholmgren> instead of being separated into pairs
[05:58:24] <SWPadnos> ejholmgren, ?
[05:59:04] <ejholmgren> I need to split an incoming hot 110V AC wire off into 8 connections
[05:59:11] <ejholmgren> and I'd like to do it in a "safe" manner
[05:59:22] <SWPadnos> how many transformers do you have?
[05:59:38] <ejholmgren> ?
[05:59:59] <ds3> don't they have strips like that in a circuit breaker box?
[06:00:40] <SWPadnos> well, it's the "safe manner" thing ...
[06:00:54] <ejholmgren> make that 9 ... 1 for the 12v trans to run the relays and 8 for the individual outlets
[06:00:55] <ds3> yes, so use a circuit breaker box =)
[06:01:18] <ds3> and actually use a breaker on each one. that ought to be safe (but not compact)
[06:02:04] <SWPadnos> you can get bridges that will attach a couple of adjacent pairs
[06:02:20] <SWPadnos> you need a total of 10 connections (in, 8 relays, transformer)
[06:02:24] <ejholmgren> yes
[06:02:37] <ds3> rated for 110V? (I know they have all that for datacomm)
[06:03:14] <ds3> I just use a power strip and standard IEC power cords
[06:04:43] <SWPadnos> you also need the same thing for the unswitched line
[06:09:04] <SWPadnos> ejholmgren, there are "grounding strips" that are meant to go into breaker boxes (or control boxes). if you insulate them well enough, they'd probably work
[06:09:14] <SWPadnos> not that that's the best or safest approach
[06:09:19] <ds3> what about these -
[06:09:23] <ds3> http://www.surplussales.com/Electrical/TermStrip-1.html
[06:09:37] <ds3> search for item 39TB-18, claims a 30AMP/600V rating
[06:10:23] <SWPadnos> yeah - there are shorting bars for those, at least for adjacent pairs
[06:10:49] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10documents/scratch.txt: test
[06:10:53] <SWPadnos> the total current can't be over 15A, so the current rating isn't too important (as long as it's 15A or higher, that is)
[06:11:40] <ejholmgren> ds3: I have something like that, 600V 30A
[06:12:16] <ejholmgren> I might just connect the terms on the backside together
[06:12:24] <ds3> ejholmgren: couldn't you add a shorting bar (copper sheets cut to let them clamp on to the screws on one side
[06:13:32] <ejholmgren> I suppose with a dremmel I could zip the back half of the dividers off and run a shorting bar across the whole stip
[06:13:34] <ejholmgren> strip
[06:13:58] <ejholmgren> these even have a clear cap that goes over the top for better protection
[06:14:40] <SWPadnos> the local home depot should have shorting bars. they connect adjacent pairs (and still allow a wire to be connected). if you stagger them, you can short together 5 terminal pairs for the 10 connections you need
[06:15:10] <SWPadnos> stagger = one on the front between pairs 1 and 2, then one on the back pair of screws between pairs 2 and 3 ...
[06:15:57] <ds3> is all this going to be inside some kind of enclosure?
[06:16:18] <ejholmgren> yes
[06:16:30] <ejholmgren> ~6x6x8"
[06:18:45] <ejholmgren> the outlets are already mounted to the top
[06:19:08] <ejholmgren> and the relay card is ready to be put in after I cut the DB25 hole
[06:19:21] <SWPadnos> if you search for "distribution block" or "power distribution block" somewhere (ebay, MSC, digikey, surplus places, speaker stores ...) you should find what you want
[06:19:40] <ejholmgren> okay
[06:20:32] <SWPadnos> just make sure the voltage and current ratings are high enough :)
[06:21:27] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10CVSROOT/loginfo: get username for the log
[06:22:02] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10documents/scratch.txt: test
[06:22:20] <ds3> how are you cutting the DB25 hole?
[06:23:51] <ejholmgren> dremmel
[06:24:04] <ejholmgren> drill the corners and connect the dots ;)
[06:25:14] <ejholmgren> after all is said and done, the 8 relays will be ouputs in classicladder
[06:29:57] <ds3> so much for bugging someone for the DB series G code ;)
[06:30:48] <ejholmgren> cradek has it, if I remember correctly
[06:31:00] <ejholmgren> db25 at least
[06:31:01] <cradek> timeguy.com
[06:31:58] <ds3> THANK YOU... found it once a long time ago and couldn't find it regardless of googling
[06:32:41] <cradek> it's pretty new - google may not have found it yet.
[06:33:43] <ds3> someone had it a few years ago
[06:34:12] <cradek> must have been a different file - I made those a few weeks? ago
[06:34:15] <ds3> Hmmmm Yggdrasil? thought they were one fo the first few SLS CDs?
[06:34:25] <ds3> definitely different then
[06:40:11] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10documents/scratch.txt: test
[06:51:48] <ds3> is there any disadvantages to using the current BDI instead of the Ubuntu setup?
[06:52:57] <SWPadnos> the main ones I can think of are that (a) the BDI maintainer isn't too friendly towards EMC2, so it may not be easy to install and (b) there are more active developers working on EMC2 than the EMC1 hybrid that's on BDI
[06:53:22] <SWPadnos> (also that EMC2 is much more configurable without recompiling, though it can be harder to configure because of it)
[06:53:53] <ds3> oh... the package list on the latest BDI suggest it has EMC2 in it, is that misleading?
[06:54:34] <SWPadnos> it may or may not be a released version. it probably says 2.0.5 (or 2.0.4), but every release there seems to be some other issue ...
[06:55:30] <ds3> gotcha... guess I'll avoid that can of worms then
[06:55:46] <SWPadnos> yeah - it's a sad political state, but there it is /)
[06:55:51] <ds3> the breezer based live CD should have a stable version of EMC2?
[06:55:51] <SWPadnos> :/
[06:55:54] <SWPadnos> there
[06:56:18] <ds3> I only ask cuz BDI is used in a shipping product and was hoping it was a more stable snapshot but....
[06:56:25] <SWPadnos> yep. I'm not sure which version is on the liveCD
[06:57:02] <ds3> I'll drop that on the hard drive and give it a try
[06:57:07] <SWPadnos> emc2 is a bit newer, and it's only in the last few weeks that some of the final holdouts (from the exceedingly old school) have updated to it
[06:57:42] <SWPadnos> there has been a lot of reluctance, but I think that once the initial hurdles have been jumped, people have uniformly liked emc2 better
[06:58:15] <SWPadnos> some hurdles are just because soime things are not the same as they're used to, so it's not a problem for people new to both
[06:58:56] <ds3> the biggest thing I am hoping for is eventual stable lathe support with G70/G71 and sounds like only EMC2 has a chance of that
[06:59:21] <ds3> yep, don't care which one. just want something stable to start from before hacking at it
[07:00:01] <SWPadnos> I thought there was some lathe support in BDI, but it may only be in the interpreter, not the motion controller
[07:00:21] <SWPadnos> I think you'll find emc2 much easier to modify - it's actually modular and everything :)
[07:00:45] <ds3> none of the cheap/free controls have G70/G71 support
[07:00:57] <SWPadnos> does emc2? ;)
[07:01:08] <ds3> from what I can tell, EMC2 is on par with TurboCNC for lathe support at the moment
[07:01:34] <SWPadnos> only on par? I thought the spindle synchronizd motion was better in emc2
[07:01:40] <SWPadnos> is G70 a threading canned cycle?
[07:01:46] <ds3> nope. either I'll have to hack at it or some nice person will implemented before I get my lathe (been trying to buy a CNC ready lathe at a killer price for the last 2 years)
[07:01:59] <SWPadnos> * SWPadnos isn't a machinist
[07:02:02] <ds3> no, G70 == finish removal cycle; G71 == roughing removal cycle
[07:02:20] <ds3> this is the one where you give it a begin and end block number and it'll figure out how to whittle the peice down to the described geometry
[07:02:50] <SWPadnos> ah. there's something like that in emc2 now.
[07:03:04] <ds3> there is? the page says that is on the todo list
[07:03:09] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure if it was a preprocessor for the G-code or something in the interpreter
[07:03:12] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[07:03:17] <ds3> let me find that page
[07:03:22] <SWPadnos> I could always be confised :)
[07:04:31] <SWPadnos> ot confused, I suppose
[07:04:38] <SWPadnos> argh. it's getting late - I can tell
[07:04:48] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features
[07:04:52] <SWPadnos> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Code
[07:04:56] <SWPadnos> those two?
[07:05:07] <ds3> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features#Roughing_and_Finishing_cycles
[07:05:09] <ds3> that one specifically
[07:05:27] <ds3> would be overjoyed if this page is 'outdated' =)
[07:05:57] <ds3> G70/G71 is HAAS style
[07:06:03] <SWPadnos> I don't think it's as described there, but I recall seeing an Axis screenshot with a nice roughing pass on it
[07:06:07] <SWPadnos> that may have been a demo though :)
[07:07:13] <ds3> I'll check again if my seller comes through and completes the sale ;)
[07:09:16] <SWPadnos> ah well. I need to get back to cutting up cardboard boxes, or I'll never get any sleep tonight :)
[07:09:51] <SWPadnos> I'm proibably wrong about G70, but I know I saw a sample toolpath for it (it just my have been manually generated)
[07:37:15] <alex_joni> morning all
[07:49:41] <Jymmm> hi alex
[07:50:14] <alex_joni> what's new Jymmm ?
[08:11:36] <Jymmm> alex_joni SSDD
[08:12:48] <Jymmm> I have to hit Home Depot after work tonight to pick up some motion lights. It seems that we have a critters scratching on the back door at night.
[08:13:33] <Jymmm> At least we think it's critters =)
[08:13:40] <alex_joni> critters?
[08:13:44] <alex_joni> wot's that?
[08:13:57] <Jymmm> critters == racoon, possiu, "something" four legged
[08:14:04] <alex_joni> http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/Captures/CapturesA-D/Critters/critters_13.jpg ??
[08:14:07] <ejholmgren> have a pellet gun?
[08:14:27] <Jymmm> ejholmgren nope
[08:14:39] <Jymmm> Don't want to KILL anything, just run/scare them off
[08:15:29] <Jymmm> alex_joni Where did you find a pic of me in the morning?
[08:15:36] <ejholmgren> that's why I didn't say .22 ;)
[08:15:58] <Jymmm> I just to go rabbit hunting wiht a pellet gun.
[08:16:49] <Jymmm> Will racoons run away from a motion light?
[08:17:15] <Jymmm> I know they'll avoid light, not sure if they'll run away from it though.
[08:17:46] <ds3> mod emc to control a water jet abrasive cutter that is trained on the 'critter'
[08:18:12] <Jymmm> I just said I dont' want to KILL anything.
[08:18:20] <ejholmgren> or just hook it up to a radio
[08:18:39] <Jymmm> Then all our birds will go nuts too. lol
[08:19:05] <alex_joni> low frequency sound waves
[08:19:07] <Jymmm> I wonder if they sell the motions sensor you hook up to your gardne hose
[08:19:09] <alex_joni> makes em puke :P
[08:19:30] <alex_joni> Jymmm: you need a valve and a normal motion sensor
[08:20:10] <ejholmgren> maybe just "fling" them instead
[08:20:16] <SWPadnos> how about a motion sensor and a rap CD
[08:20:21] <ejholmgren> 'coons are tough
[08:20:29] <SWPadnos> not that tough
[08:20:43] <SWPadnos> no way they can stand 2 live crew
[08:20:53] <ejholmgren> heh
[08:21:05] <Jymmm> * Jymmm lol @ SWPadnos
[08:21:17] <Jymmm> SWPadnos or your wife's cooking! <ducks>
[08:21:36] <ejholmgren> you might incite them to break into your home and steal all the valuables with rap music
[08:21:37] <SWPadnos> who are you talking about? my wife doesn't cook
[08:22:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos No wonder you know the phone #'s for every restraunt in the country by heart!
[08:22:16] <SWPadnos> of course :)
[08:22:34] <Jymmm> Hell, I barely know my own phone number for that matter
[08:22:38] <ejholmgren> pretty soon they'll be driving powerwheels "donks" around in your driveway at 2 am
[08:23:13] <Jymmm> ejholmgren THAT I can deal with, but it'll be 3am by the time I hit Home Depot
[08:23:49] <Jymmm> Besides moth balls, is there anything else that will deter them?
[08:23:53] <Jymmm> scent wise
[08:24:02] <SWPadnos> piss
[08:24:13] <Jymmm> Eh, too expensive
[08:24:13] <SWPadnos> (I'm serious)
[08:24:19] <ejholmgren> are you above pissing all over your back door?
[08:24:24] <Jymmm> even the synthetic shit is expensive
[08:24:24] <SWPadnos> no - just buy a lot of beer :)
[08:24:28] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/blog/index.cgi/photography/01168244631
[08:25:05] <Jymmm> SWPadnos lol
[08:25:13] <SWPadnos> funny. it just stopped raining here ...
[08:25:18] <ds3> they sell this dry piss powder for repelling critters
[08:25:22] <SWPadnos> it may pick up again though
[08:25:53] <Jymmm> ds3 know the name? or where to get it?
[08:26:38] <Jymmm> maybe I'll get some borax soap and sprinkle it ourside. or a few bars of soap the highly perfumed kind
[08:27:04] <SWPadnos> soap might smell sweet
[08:27:24] <SWPadnos> borax isn't harmful to mammals, I think (great for carpenter ants though)
[08:27:34] <Jymmm> I don't want to kill anything, and I dont' want to accidently track it in the house either.
[08:27:38] <SWPadnos> right
[08:27:47] <Jymmm> SWPadnos and roaches too, but lethal to birds.
[08:28:01] <Jymmm> of which we have 21 birds
[08:28:35] <SWPadnos> you have to be careful - things like propylene glycol (antifreeze) or ethylene glycol (windshield washer fluid) smell sweet to some pets (like cats), but are deadly to them
[08:28:53] <Jymmm> SWPadnos It tastes sweet
[08:28:55] <SWPadnos> hmmm - maybe I swapped proplyene and ethylene there ...
[08:29:24] <ds3> propylene glycol is mostly harmless
[08:29:29] <Jymmm> SWPadnos Yeah, we used to have to be careful when workign on cares.
[08:29:35] <ejholmgren> http://www.critter-repellent.com/raccoon/raccoon-repellant.php
[08:29:41] <SWPadnos> ds3, depends on the animal
[08:29:44] <Jymmm> antifreeze tastes very sweet
[08:29:55] <SWPadnos> remember - chocolate is poison to dogs ...
[08:30:09] <ds3> Jymmm: this is the company that was making them but they saying they are unavailable -
[08:30:10] <ds3> http://www.pestproducts.com/fox_urine.htm
[08:30:25] <ds3> Jymmm: what part of the country are you in?
[08:30:39] <Jymmm> ds3 San Jose California
[08:30:41] <ejholmgren> “I had 10 Raccoons living under my deck. I purchased 3 cans of Shake-Away for Deer and Large Animals (Coyote Urine) and followed the instructions. After 2 days, the raccoons left. I waited 2 more days then closed the hole. I am now raccoon free. Great Stuff!!"
[08:30:43] <ejholmgren> Jerry Myers – Wrightwood, CA
[08:30:55] <ds3> SWPadnos: well, that stuff is an ingredient in food coloring
[08:31:06] <ds3> Jymmm: oh... try OSH or if you are in the south bay, Payless Rockery
[08:31:11] <SWPadnos> ethylene glycol? I hope not
[08:31:22] <SWPadnos> or propylene :)
[08:31:34] <ds3> no, propylene
[08:31:42] <Jymmm> ds3 I'm heading to Home Depot at 3am, I'll see if they have anything there.
[08:31:57] <ds3> HD didn't have much in the way of non lethal stuff
[08:32:02] <ds3> which HD is open at 3AM?!
[08:32:04] <SWPadnos> actually, I shouldn't discuss this now - I should be sleeping. I can always ask my mother or father later on (both chemists)
[08:32:14] <Jymmm> ds3 One of Capital Ave, open 24/7
[08:32:30] <ds3> Capital and Almaden?
[08:32:37] <Jymmm> ds3 yeah
[08:32:41] <ds3> oh nice
[08:33:15] <Jymmm> ds3 you in Oakland ???
[08:33:24] <ds3> Jymmm: no, SJC
[08:33:34] <Jymmm> ds3 Ah, ok.
[08:33:42] <Jymmm> ditto
[08:33:48] <ds3> didn't know there was any 24/7 stores down here
[08:34:14] <Jymmm> I haven't ckecked in a LONG time, I better call first....
[08:34:56] <ejholmgren> there must have to be a fairly large metro to have a 24/7 HD
[08:35:15] <ds3> they have them down in LA
[08:35:43] <Jymmm> 1,000,000 in San Jose Alone
[08:36:08] <Jymmm> Well, shit. HG is no long open 24/7 shit
[08:36:27] <Jymmm> Guess it's WalMart then... They I know for sure are 24/7
[08:36:36] <Jymmm> err HD
[08:36:47] <ds3> uh..., last I checked non of the south bay walmarts are 24/7
[08:37:05] <Jymmm> Union City and Gilroy are both 24/7
[08:37:20] <Jymmm> Gilroy is alos grocery store with produce and meat
[08:37:29] <ds3> sure about Gilroy?
[08:37:39] <Jymmm> Guarnteed
[08:38:24] <ds3> guess I might be making more midnight runs down 101 then
[08:39:39] <Jymmm> Gilroy, Stockton, Dixon, and Union City all open 24/7
[08:40:01] <ds3> where is Dixon?
[08:40:06] <Jymmm> BFE
[08:40:26] <ds3> UC is further away then Gilroy
[08:41:20] <Jymmm> Yeah, but I work closer to UC than Gilroy
[08:42:50] <Jymmm> Hmmmm, maybe UC isn't 24/7, But I think it is
[08:43:12] <ds3> the food max near it is 24/7
[08:44:03] <Jymmm> Ah, ok... the website is screwed up.... it said it's 24/7 and then you look at the details they say differently but then to contact the store for it's hours.
[08:44:25] <ds3> oh
[08:44:31] <Jymmm> Gilroy is 24/7
[08:44:59] <ds3> they weren't before they moved to the new site
[08:45:23] <Jymmm> Gilroy has been 24/7 for at least 2+ years
[08:46:23] <ds3> that's perfect for those trips back from LA at 3AM
[08:46:54] <Jymmm> I just called UC, they are open 24/7 too
[08:47:36] <ds3> is UC north or south of I238?
[08:47:41] <Jymmm> 238?
[08:47:46] <Jymmm> 237 you mean?
[08:47:53] <ds3> that connector from 580
[08:48:00] <ds3> no, not CA237
[08:48:10] <ds3> guess I can dig out a map myself
[08:48:21] <Jymmm> or maps.google.com
[08:51:29] <ds3> its south of it; so that'll work as a snack place on the way back from NorCal
[08:51:40] <Jymmm> Cool.
[08:52:03] <Jymmm> Shit, that HD used to be open 34/7, damn that really sucks.
[09:12:41] <A-L-P-H-A> Jymmm... hey
[09:12:44] <A-L-P-H-A> good you're about.
[09:12:50] <A-L-P-H-A> I was looking for you earlier, as you may know
[09:12:59] <A-L-P-H-A> know of a tree/checkbox control for html/js?
[09:23:08] <anonimasu> hm
[09:23:28] <A-L-P-H-A> found a really nice one now. http://swat.silverorange.com/demo/index.php?demo=Checkbox
[09:23:30] <A-L-P-H-A> NOW!
[09:23:35] <A-L-P-H-A> after I spent 12 hrs programming one.
[09:29:54] <anonimasu> hehe
[09:32:30] <A-L-P-H-A> fuck'n sucks ass wasted so much time.
[09:32:33] <A-L-P-H-A> but did learn a lot.
[09:32:36] <anonimasu> :)
[09:33:03] <A-L-P-H-A> so what's new anonimasu?
[09:33:03] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: seems like the vibration I had went away after tramming my spindle..
[09:33:12] <A-L-P-H-A> cool
[09:34:41] <anonimasu> ^_^
[09:35:36] <anonimasu> what's up with you?
[09:36:04] <A-L-P-H-A> umm.
[09:36:16] <anonimasu> more then your issue ;9
[09:36:25] <A-L-P-H-A> married girl flirting with me... date today, in 10 hrs.
[09:36:35] <A-L-P-H-A> not witht he married girl.
[09:36:37] <A-L-P-H-A> different girl.
[09:36:43] <A-L-P-H-A> wish the married girl wasn't married.
[09:37:00] <anonimasu> heh.. nice problems
[09:37:18] <anonimasu> all I seem t be doing is waiting for people to get back to me with datas
[09:37:20] <anonimasu> data adn stuff..
[09:39:30] <anonimasu> :)
[09:41:44] <Jymmm> alex_joni cool pics, no pun intended
[09:44:31] <A-L-P-H-A> what picks?
[09:44:33] <A-L-P-H-A> pics
[09:49:27] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as MrAsshole
[09:49:42] <anonimasu> :)
[09:53:50] <MrAsshole> (dont ask)
[09:58:03] <MrAsshole> MrAsshole is now known as Jymmm
[10:05:25] <anonimasu> brb
[10:08:45] <Dallur> Have you guys ever seen any machine that uses a linear laser instead of an encoder for the feedback ?
[10:08:50] <anonimasu> hm
[10:08:53] <anonimasu> not lunch yet..
[10:09:10] <anonimasu> yes, though not a cnc
[10:09:46] <Dallur> Been thinking it would not be that hard to make one
[10:10:19] <anonimasu> I've seen this before..
[10:10:20] <Dallur> using a CCD, laser and Conoscopic Holography
[10:10:23] <anonimasu> the speed makes it kind of hard..
[10:10:37] <anonimasu> if you are measuring reflection atleast..
[10:10:53] <anonimasu> the commercial sensors are priced at 700eur
[10:11:14] <Dallur> anonimasu: Are they measuring the time it takes light to travel back and forth ?
[10:11:37] <anonimasu> yes
[10:12:01] <anonimasu> I have the catalog infront of me now
[10:12:17] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm I already wrote that off as not being precise enough
[10:12:24] <anonimasu> I'd go with one of thoose linear magnetic strip sensors as they are cheaper
[10:13:16] <Dallur> anonimasu: Im just thinking theory here, not planning on building anything atm
[10:13:30] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:13:38] <anonimasu> I just had the catalog on my desk ;)
[10:13:42] <Dallur> anonimasu: im thinking of building myself one of these -> http://dallur.com/fileadmin/user_upload/LaserCalibration.png
[10:14:35] <anonimasu> hm
[10:14:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[10:14:41] <anonimasu> dunno how well it'd work
[10:15:05] <Dallur> anonimasu: that only gives Z and X values for me to align my plasma table, but got to thinking that it would be possible to use conoscopic holography to get Y values
[10:15:53] <anonimasu> conoscopic?
[10:16:12] <Dallur> anonimasu: http://www.solarius-inc.com/html/holo.html
[10:16:18] <anonimasu> im in the middle of building a plasma table..
[10:17:11] <anonimasu> Dallur: interferometer?
[10:17:48] <anonimasu> thoose modules are expensive I think
[10:18:09] <Dallur> anonimasu: could be, i have not checked
[10:18:36] <Dallur> anonimasu: supposed to be the most accurate linear method to measure distance with light
[10:19:05] <anonimasu> yeah also the most expensiev
[10:19:06] <anonimasu> one of them
[10:20:03] <anonimasu> why do you need this precision anyway?
[10:20:22] <Dallur> anonimasu: I don't, just started looking at it for fun :D
[10:20:45] <anonimasu> :D
[10:20:48] <anonimasu> http://www.n4mw.com/hp5526/hple.htm
[10:21:22] <Dallur> anonimasu: I only need something to align my X/Z axis on my plasma, which a low diffraction laser and CCD should do very well
[10:22:04] <anonimasu> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferometer#Types_of_Interferometers
[10:22:13] <anonimasu> sagnac interferometer should be something what you want :)
[10:22:34] <anonimasu> probably much simplier to make
[10:24:05] <anonimasu> why dosent a dial gauge work?
[10:24:46] <Jymmm> anonimasu too much coke in it?
[10:24:47] <Dallur> anonimasu: the table is 6.5m long, I need to make it straight, it's hard to find very straight objects that long
[10:24:54] <anonimasu> ^_^
[10:27:34] <Dallur> anonimasu: perhaps I did not make myself clear enough, the rails on my plasma table are adjustable in both Z and X, so I need something very straight to measure against, I can't think of anything other than a laser that is straight over this kind of distance
[10:28:31] <anonimasu> each one of the rails?
[10:28:49] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup
[10:29:04] <anonimasu> hm, that sucks.. :)
[10:29:10] <anonimasu> I'd align them next to eachother..
[10:29:11] <anonimasu> first..
[10:29:13] <anonimasu> with a dial gauge..
[10:29:25] <anonimasu> then get a piece of something that's 6.49
[10:29:35] <anonimasu> and use a dial gauge and set up the final mm
[10:30:22] <anonimasu> that'
[10:30:58] <anonimasu> does that seem like a bad idea?
[10:31:17] <Dallur> anonimasu: im trying to understand what you are proposing
[10:31:33] <anonimasu> your machine can be picked apart?
[10:31:39] <Dallur> anonimasu: yup
[10:31:41] <anonimasu> tram your rails first.. so they are straight..
[10:31:43] <anonimasu> to eachother..
[10:31:51] <Dallur> anonimasu: that's not a problem
[10:32:00] <anonimasu> then get a bar of 6m iron, and adjust the final mm..
[10:32:19] <Dallur> anonimasu: the problem is that any bar of iron that is 6m is not nearly precise enough
[10:32:39] <anonimasu> that's why you mount a dial gauge to it..
[10:32:42] <anonimasu> on the end..
[10:33:34] <Dallur> anonimasu: hmm still not getting it, my problem is not getting the right distance between the two sides btw
[10:33:53] <Dallur> anonimasu: the problem is making sure that the Y axis not not wavy
[10:34:25] <Dallur> anonimasu: they can be the same distance from each other at all points but still be curves
[10:34:31] <Dallur> anonimasu: err curved
[10:35:07] <anonimasu> if you measure every meter with a dial gauge.. it shouldnt be curved..
[10:35:59] <anonimasu> you see what I mean?
[10:36:02] <anonimasu> you dont need it straight..
[10:36:10] <anonimasu> though you need 2 flat faces..
[10:36:13] <anonimasu> that's paralell..
[10:36:25] <Dallur> anonimasu: no, if they are not straight then the actual cut on the plate will not be straight
[10:36:33] <anonimasu> * anonimasu sighs
[10:36:42] <anonimasu> machine 2 flat plates, and mount them to your bar..
[10:38:27] <anonimasu> well, there's probably drawings of interferometers on the web :)
[10:38:42] <Dallur> anonimasu: there are :P but I don't even need that
[10:39:11] <Dallur> anonimasu: I really just need some sort of straight edge that is long enough and does not deflect
[10:39:44] <anonimasu> :
[10:39:46] <anonimasu> :)
[10:40:43] <Dallur> anonimasu: problem is once you get up to these sizes, even a 4"x4" profile with 1/8" wall thickness will deflect by 10mm just because of gravity
[10:47:37] <Dallur> anonimasu: (sorry if I'm pestering you) i'm trying to understand exactly what you meant before (if there is an easy way to do this that would be great), you were proposing to put a straight piece of steel between the the two sides (slightly smaller than the distance between them) and measuring the gap, correct '
[10:48:53] <anonimasu> yes
[10:49:17] <anonimasu> and use the floor as a guide
[10:49:20] <anonimasu> if your floor is flat..
[10:49:38] <anonimasu> :9
[10:49:39] <anonimasu> :)
[10:49:42] <anonimasu> brb I have lunch
[11:07:47] <Dallur> anonimasu: http://dallur.com/fileadmin/user_upload/adjustment.png
[11:47:58] <anonimasu> Dallur: yeah
[11:53:00] <Dallur> anonimasu: sorry, was eating lunch ;O
[11:54:48] <Dallur> in my experience floors are always way crooked, the problem I am trying to solve is getting pink/purple correct, to the best of my knowledge this requires some sort of a straight piece of metal or a beam of light to act as a reference line, did you have another way ?
[11:55:36] <alex_joni> laser pointer might be the cheapest way
[11:57:28] <Dallur> alex: yup, I found a company in Germany that sells lasers which have very low diffraction (0.1-0.5 mrad), thinking about joining that with a CCD and a lens to make a digital meter
[11:57:44] <Dallur> alex: should not cost more than $100 total
[11:58:43] <alex_joni> nice..
[11:58:46] <Dallur> alex: http://dallur.com/fileadmin/user_upload/LaserCalibration.png
[11:58:52] <alex_joni> seen that
[11:58:57] <Dallur> alex: :D
[11:59:01] <alex_joni> there are also laser for construction purposes
[11:59:11] <alex_joni> which generate a plane by rotating a laser
[11:59:24] <alex_joni> maybe one of that is also usefull for tracing linear things
[11:59:26] <Dallur> alex_joni: yup, and there are also prisms which make lines
[11:59:45] <alex_joni> right
[11:59:57] <Dallur> alex_joni: only problem is that they are either $5000+ or they have divergence around 2-3mrad (2-3 mm beam spread over 1m)
[12:00:09] <alex_joni> eek
[12:00:12] <Dallur> alex_joni: the construction lasers
[12:00:15] <alex_joni> would have thought better
[12:00:43] <Dallur> alex_joni: I was supprised, turns out most of the lasers sold to public are garbage
[12:00:50] <alex_joni> sounds like it
[12:02:02] <anonimasu> hm..
[12:02:45] <anonimasu> Dallur: how about a laser level?
[12:02:51] <anonimasu> one of thoose they use when building houses?
[12:02:55] <anonimasu> one sweep laser..
[12:03:07] <anonimasu> and the piece you align aginst..
[12:03:09] <anonimasu> that you can move around..
[12:04:21] <anonimasu> hm..
[12:06:04] <Dallur> For example: The top of the line Stabila laser has ± 0.3 mm/m (aprox. 0.3mrad), that's still 1.6mm error :(
[12:06:40] <jtr> http://www.lmwatts.com/straightedge.html describes a way to work over long distances with a precision level.
[12:07:05] <jtr> but long distance in this case is 1.3 meter
[12:11:02] <anonimasu> engineering laser levels..
[12:11:03] <anonimasu> :)
[12:11:05] <Dallur> jtr: thanks, probably a bit hard when the distances are larger
[12:11:16] <anonimasu> you can probably borrow one somewhere..
[12:11:57] <Dallur> anonimasu: or build my own :Þ
[12:12:31] <anonimasu> heh..
[12:12:35] <jtr> yep, 6.5m, 10 in. at a time. probably a long, long process.
[12:13:07] <Dallur> anonimasu: and make a guide on my website how to do it and hope someone makes a program to automatically generate a file with the error offsets which would be compatible with EMC :D
[12:13:59] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:15:09] <anonimasu> http://www.ucalgary.ca/~kmuldrew/cryo_course/cryo_chap14_1.html
[12:16:10] <anonimasu> I just drew the vortex thing of that
[12:17:02] <alex_joni> Dallur: you can already compensate for non-linearities in emc2
[12:17:15] <alex_joni> but those are per axis
[12:17:36] <alex_joni> although someone mentioned to do it with kins, and he got ~micron precision
[12:18:42] <anonimasu> err a Hilsch Vortex Tube
[12:23:32] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[12:23:43] <lerneaen_hydra> ooh, hilsch vortex tubes are nice
[12:23:47] <lerneaen_hydra> noise little buggers though
[12:33:09] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:33:11] <anonimasu> I'm drawing one
[12:33:19] <anonimasu> making a cad/cam of it..
[12:40:05] <anonimasu> going to make one to cool some alu with..
[12:40:20] <lerneaen_hydra> cool
[12:40:58] <lerneaen_hydra> do oy uhave a drawing or are you just eyeballing it relative to the image?
[12:41:45] <anonimasu> there's no exact specs..
[12:41:51] <anonimasu> but im drawing as the drawing says..
[12:42:02] <lerneaen_hydra> which drawing? the american scientist one?
[12:42:07] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:42:12] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[12:42:14] <anonimasu> might need some experimenting..
[12:42:26] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[12:42:43] <anonimasu> -70 degrees is pretty brutal..
[12:42:50] <anonimasu> for cooling coke ;)
[12:43:34] <lerneaen_hydra> if you can keep the hot end at 30degrees ;)
[12:43:43] <lerneaen_hydra> haha, coke
[12:43:53] <lerneaen_hydra> or you can have two in series
[12:43:56] <anonimasu> yeah..
[12:44:03] <lerneaen_hydra> one four times as large as the other
[12:44:05] <anonimasu> look at the diagram..
[12:44:07] <lerneaen_hydra> or thereabouts
[12:44:28] <lerneaen_hydra> ?
[12:44:32] <anonimasu> performance grapg
[12:44:32] <anonimasu> graph
[12:44:39] <lerneaen_hydra> oh? where?
[12:44:54] <anonimasu> http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/Hilsch238.gif
[12:44:58] <anonimasu> http://www.visi.com/~darus/hilsch/
[12:46:48] <lerneaen_hydra> seems to have an efficiency of 30% cold air at coldest
[12:46:52] <lerneaen_hydra> not bad
[12:47:15] <anonimasu> nope
[12:47:16] <anonimasu> not at all
[12:47:24] <anonimasu> getting dry ice is hard..
[12:47:30] <anonimasu> hard/expensive..
[12:47:36] <lerneaen_hydra> air is cheap
[12:47:52] <anonimasu> yep
[12:47:58] <lerneaen_hydra> cheaper at least
[12:49:40] <Dallur> hmm I can almost feel the overclocking potential mmmmm
[12:51:20] <lerneaen_hydra> ack
[12:51:22] <lerneaen_hydra> oh no
[12:51:43] <anonimasu> hehe energywise it sucks for that matter..
[12:51:58] <anonimasu> they cooled down to -80 and poured liquid nitrogen
[12:52:02] <anonimasu> at it..
[12:52:05] <anonimasu> where I saw..
[12:52:22] <anonimasu> and used dry ice to keep the nitrogen from evaporating
[12:52:38] <Dallur> hmm im thinking sustained overclocking :D
[12:52:38] <lerneaen_hydra> ..
[12:52:52] <lerneaen_hydra> how's that for energy efficiency
[12:53:00] <Dallur> lol
[12:53:13] <Dallur> I well at least you got a shot at reaching 10Ghz
[12:53:27] <anonimasu> they didnt..
[12:53:36] <Dallur> Toms Hardware ?
[12:53:50] <anonimasu> no :)
[12:53:53] <anonimasu> techsweden..
[12:53:55] <lerneaen_hydra> bah
[12:54:22] <lerneaen_hydra> tomshardware is as faked as it can get
[12:54:36] <anonimasu> they used dual cascade coolers..
[12:54:37] <anonimasu> homebuilt
[12:54:43] <Dallur> Today, they used to be ok but now I don't even read em anymore
[12:55:00] <Dallur> The problem most run into is condensation, but I figured why not build an airtight box and just purge the atmosphere from it and fill it with argon
[12:55:01] <anonimasu> http://marquzz.serveftp.org/ftp_public/dhw06/day2/ln2_smoke.jpg
[12:55:09] <anonimasu> hehe
[12:55:10] <anonimasu> yeah
[12:56:25] <Dallur> anonimasu I got 10x 450W peltiers and a block of 80x80mm 99.98% copper sitting at home for a year now, never gotten around to starting the project
[12:57:03] <Dallur> anonimasu: water cool the hot side, 450W peltier should sustain around -40°C under load
[12:57:02] <lerneaen_hydra> 450W peltiers?
[12:57:19] <lerneaen_hydra> is that 450W on the hot side or cold-sinking capacity?
[12:57:38] <Dallur> lernaen_hydra: 450W power draw
[12:58:05] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[12:58:14] <lerneaen_hydra> how much cold can you sink through them?
[12:58:17] <Dallur> LH: that's huge :P
[12:58:20] <lerneaen_hydra> 45W?
[12:58:48] <Dallur> LH: don't remember, there is a formula for how much you can sink, but it depends on how many degrees you want to cool
[12:59:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, yeah
[13:02:48] <Dallur> anonimasu: you planning on building these ?
[13:13:29] <anonimasu> just one
[13:13:39] <anonimasu> or two :9
[13:13:41] <anonimasu> :)
[13:15:06] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: jsut for fun or a "real" reason?
[13:16:02] <anonimasu> I'd like to use it for cooling endmills..
[13:16:53] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, how do you plan to do that?
[13:18:09] <anonimasu> how´+
[13:18:14] <anonimasu> cold air blast?
[13:18:33] <anonimasu> making a O around the spindle and angling the holes at the endmill..
[13:18:50] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, just air cooling?
[13:19:01] <anonimasu> 2yeah
[13:19:09] <anonimasu> I have flood coolant
[13:19:13] <lerneaen_hydra> then again, lots of air at -50,60 is good
[13:19:20] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, are you going to cool the coolant?
[13:19:23] <anonimasu> no
[13:19:39] <anonimasu> but to avoid having to shield everything/computer/stuff
[13:19:54] <anonimasu> I'd like to have the option to do dry milling with air..
[13:20:04] <anonimasu> and trade tool life ;)
[13:20:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, so you'd like to avoid coolant at all
[13:20:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[13:20:16] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds nice
[13:20:22] <lerneaen_hydra> less messy
[13:20:29] <anonimasu> I need to shield the machine to run coolant..(the room around)
[13:20:37] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[13:20:40] <anonimasu> at high rpm it splashes around so much..
[13:20:51] <anonimasu> at 3000rpm it's like a hurricane..
[13:21:42] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[13:21:50] <lerneaen_hydra> I ran some 10mm endmills at 6000rpm
[13:21:54] <lerneaen_hydra> really splashy
[13:22:16] <anonimasu> im going up to that speed later..
[13:22:23] <anonimasu> but I need to mod my spindle so I can run coolant through it..
[13:22:29] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[13:22:35] <anonimasu> oil cooler and oil :)
[13:23:52] <anonimasu> )
[13:23:53] <anonimasu> :)
[13:27:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni loves DVI
[13:28:26] <lerneaen_hydra> dvi as in?
[13:28:32] <alex_joni> as in not VGA
[13:28:34] <lerneaen_hydra> video interface?
[13:28:42] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, ok
[13:28:44] <alex_joni> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI
[13:28:48] <lerneaen_hydra> you notice a big difference?
[13:28:51] <alex_joni> yup
[13:28:54] <anonimasu> hehe
[13:28:54] <anonimasu> why?
[13:29:02] <alex_joni> it's way clearer
[13:29:14] <lerneaen_hydra> it's too bad they didn't go for a dsub connector though
[13:30:35] <alex_joni> why?
[13:30:53] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/6872
[13:30:58] <lerneaen_hydra> dsub are easy to make your own interface to
[13:31:10] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: you use solidworks?
[13:31:32] <anonimasu> yes
[13:31:52] <alex_joni> alibre all the way here :D
[13:32:13] <anonimasu> all my workstuff is in alibre ;9
[13:32:35] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: what cad do you use?
[13:32:44] <anonimasu> alibre express
[13:32:50] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: can you send the .sldprt? ;)
[13:32:54] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: sure
[13:33:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, expenseware?
[13:33:02] <anonimasu> no
[13:33:06] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, nice
[13:33:09] <anonimasu> crippleware..
[13:33:18] <alex_joni> http://alibre.istheshit.net/
[13:33:28] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: freeware :)
[13:33:30] <lerneaen_hydra> cool
[13:33:37] <lerneaen_hydra> err, crippleware isn't nice
[13:33:47] <lerneaen_hydra> so it's a crippled alibre cad?
[13:33:51] <lerneaen_hydra> *cam
[13:33:59] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/xpress/software/alibre-design-xpress.asp
[13:34:05] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: no cam
[13:34:11] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, it's cad
[13:34:15] <alex_joni> cam is available for the high end version :)
[13:34:24] <fenn> Dallur: mount your laser on the moving axis, point it at a piece of white paper a long distance away (or use mirrors if you dont have a long distance to work in)
[13:34:30] <fenn> watch the paper with a webcam
[13:34:30] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: parametric modeler
[13:34:33] <lerneaen_hydra> I recognise that toolchanger they have there O.o
[13:34:43] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: they're really nice
[13:34:55] <lerneaen_hydra> looks very similar to solidworks
[13:34:57] <fenn> Dallur: machinists used to use a gun sight to do this
[13:35:39] <fenn> there's your precision level
[13:35:41] <fenn> sorta
[13:35:42] <Dallur> fenn: Im pretty much thinking the same thing, only difference is that I'm thinking to shine the laser directly into the camera
[13:36:00] <fenn> ok, but why bother?
[13:36:09] <fenn> this is so much more low tech
[13:36:13] <fenn> and you dont need it on all the time do you?
[13:36:37] <lerneaen_hydra> you only get rotational errors in the long-distance type
[13:36:42] <fenn> yes
[13:36:42] <lerneaen_hydra> you don't get translational ones
[13:36:43] <Dallur> fenn: nope, but that way I can put a lens infront of the beam and focus it to get more accuracy, get rid of teh nasty diffraction blur
[13:36:55] <anonimasu> http://www.almaskin.se/vortex_chamber.sldprt
[13:36:56] <anonimasu> there you go :9
[13:36:58] <anonimasu> :)
[13:37:00] <lerneaen_hydra> whe
[13:37:01] <lerneaen_hydra> *whee
[13:37:38] <anonimasu> ^_^
[13:37:50] <alex_joni> is that a solidworks file?
[13:38:04] <anonimasu> yes
[13:38:14] <alex_joni> oh, ok
[13:38:18] <anonimasu> want a iges?
[13:38:25] <alex_joni> alibre part?
[13:38:36] <anonimasu> I'll export a iges..
[13:38:41] <anonimasu> I cant export it to alibre..
[13:38:42] <alex_joni> ok :D
[13:38:44] <alex_joni> stp ?
[13:38:51] <alex_joni> or are you working in solid now?
[13:38:55] <anonimasu> yes.
[13:39:01] <alex_joni> iges is fine then
[13:39:10] <anonimasu> I can give you a step..
[13:39:26] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: do you have 4mm endmills that long?
[13:39:52] <anonimasu> 10mm.. yes
[13:40:07] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: that 3mm hole is really going to eat a lot of air
[13:40:13] <anonimasu> yep
[13:40:26] <anonimasu> there's orfice on the back.. also..
[13:40:31] <anonimasu> but it's not drawn there..
[13:40:34] <lerneaen_hydra> you have an industrial compressed air system?
[13:40:37] <anonimasu> I dont have smaller then 4mm endmills..
[13:40:41] <lerneaen_hydra> huh? where?
[13:40:56] <anonimasu> I dont, but I think I can provide enough air for it..
[13:41:02] <anonimasu> on the back..
[13:41:03] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[13:41:12] <fenn> wouldnt it make more sense to just blow air at the tool?
[13:41:15] <anonimasu> the side with the indent on is the hot tube..
[13:41:28] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[13:42:22] <anonimasu> fenn: cold air is still nicer..
[13:42:31] <jepler> import sys, os
[13:42:31] <jepler> BASE = os.path.abspath(os.path.join(os.path.dirname(sys.argv[0]), ".."))
[13:42:31] <jepler> sys.path.insert(0, os.path.join(BASE, "lib", "python"))
[13:42:34] <jepler> oops
[13:42:40] <jepler> good morning guys
[13:43:04] <anonimasu> morning jepler
[13:43:22] <anonimasu> alex_joni: http://www.almaskin.se/vortex_chamber.igs
[13:43:34] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/images/gallery/Soetikno1.jpg
[13:43:37] <alex_joni> that's crazy
[13:44:18] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: though you may be right, might have to scale it down..
[13:44:47] <alex_joni> nice
[13:44:50] <alex_joni> hi jeff
[13:44:51] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: gaah
[13:45:00] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni: I would not want to model that
[13:45:22] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: I cant machine any smaller without resorting to dremel tooling :)
[13:45:31] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, nasty
[13:45:40] <anonimasu> I think I have a 2mm endmill in a box somewhere..
[13:45:41] <lerneaen_hydra> don't you have any 2-3 mm endmills?
[13:45:46] <anonimasu> 3 I have..
[13:46:00] <lerneaen_hydra> you can do the rouging with a 5mm and just fix the remaining bits with a 2mm
[13:46:10] <anonimasu> no toolchanger...
[13:46:18] <lerneaen_hydra> do it manually
[13:46:21] <lerneaen_hydra> it's only two peices
[13:47:00] <anonimasu> that's why I'd avoid a toolchange..
[13:47:26] <alex_joni> http://www.alibre.com/images/gallery/radialengine.jpg
[13:47:28] <lerneaen_hydra> what's so bad about a toolchance?
[13:47:31] <lerneaen_hydra> err
[13:47:32] <lerneaen_hydra> with
[13:47:41] <anonimasu> just includes setting up the Z again..
[13:47:52] <lerneaen_hydra> don't you have a tooltable?
[13:48:01] <anonimasu> no
[13:48:02] <lerneaen_hydra> and multiple "hylsor"
[13:48:02] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[13:48:09] <lerneaen_hydra> then that's a bitch
[13:48:14] <anonimasu> I have one toolholder..
[13:48:25] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[13:48:31] <anonimasu> got one more on order
[13:48:41] <anonimasu> :)
[13:56:58] <anonimasu> *yawn*
[13:57:34] <lerneaen_hydra> http://alonewithmj.istheshit.net/
[13:57:36] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[13:58:50] <lerneaen_hydra> http://yanni.istheshit.net/ O.o
[13:59:26] <skunkworks> well our business had been broken into this weekend. Stole some mac's and nice monitors. ravaged some vending machines also.
[13:59:36] <alex_joni> skunkworks: ow
[13:59:54] <fenn> could be worse, eh? got insurance?
[13:59:57] <Dallur> skunkworks: Ouch, any suspects ?
[14:00:10] <anonimasu> http://portable_vlc.istheshit.net/
[14:00:10] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks: hmm, not so fun
[14:00:11] <skunkworks> not yet - police where finger-printing this morning
[14:00:20] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu: ARGH!
[14:00:43] <alex_joni> http://lego_car.istheshit.net/
[14:00:52] <skunkworks> it was only one department - not that big a deal I guess. they skipped all the pc's - there where 4 in there.
[14:01:30] <Dallur> skunkworks: at least you didn't loose any data, hardware is cheap compared to the bits
[14:01:39] <fenn> alex_joni: prolly cost more than the real thing
[14:01:41] <skunkworks> yep
[14:02:36] <anonimasu> agreed
[14:02:38] <alex_joni> fenn: nice though :D
[14:02:57] <lerneaen_hydra> http://warcow.istheshit.net/ wth
[14:03:31] <alex_joni> http://big_pussy.istheshit.net/
[14:04:12] <lerneaen_hydra> poor cat
[14:04:29] <lerneaen_hydra> http://sandiego.istheshit.net/
[14:04:34] <lerneaen_hydra> interesting
[14:08:09] <jepler> (http://www.technologyreview.com/printer_friendly_article.aspx?id=17831)
[14:12:50] <alex_joni> BS: ..
[14:13:11] <anonimasu> agreed.
[14:13:11] <jepler> I certainly enjoy every time I see that man's name abbreviated that awy.
[14:13:33] <anonimasu> I think the real problem is that "we" (that is, we software developers) are in a permanent state of emergency, grasping at straws to get our work done. We perform many minor miracles through trial and error, excessive use of brute force, and lots and lots of testing, but--so often--it's not enough.
[14:14:07] <anonimasu> well, the main reason is beacuse mose developers do not write sane API's.
[14:14:53] <anonimasu> ;)
[14:15:13] <jepler> don't worry, this man will make the need for programmers just fanish: http://technologyreview.com/Infotech/17969/
[14:15:18] <jepler> er, "vanish"
[14:15:33] <jepler> there will be no need for these "APIs" you talk about after he's through
[14:16:37] <anonimasu> heh
[14:16:41] <anonimasu> jepler: im not worried..
[14:17:49] <alex_joni> http://butthole.istheshit.net/
[14:19:09] <lerneaen_hydra> :|
[14:25:11] <alex_joni> bbl
[15:38:01] <jepler> cradek: from blocks.c:comp_funct():
[15:38:03] <jepler> if (tmp < -comp->hyst) {
[15:38:03] <jepler> *(comp->out) = 0;
[15:38:33] <cradek> hmmm
[15:39:26] <cradek> should we just delete blocks?
[15:40:18] <jepler> from 2.2, sure
[15:41:23] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07HEAD * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: fix hysteresis specification
[15:41:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/blocks.c: fix hysteresis specification
[15:46:45] <cradek> jepler: estimated delivery: tomorrow
[15:47:11] <skunkworks> cradek: same here
[15:50:06] <jepler> cradek: but I get the rest of my new PC today
[15:50:42] <cradek> uh-oh
[15:51:40] <cradek> Until I have a 240V feed, I need a voltage doubler circuit to run on 120V input.
[15:51:43] <cradek> /jmk's blog
[15:55:01] <jepler> cradek: I added something to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?UpdatingConfigurationsForDevelopmentVersions for the change to 'comp' but maybe you can clarify it
[15:56:12] <jepler> I need to *double* the existing value for .hyst if I want the same behavior?
[15:56:23] <cradek> yes
[15:56:29] <cradek> I was going to suggest that change
[15:56:55] <cradek> and in the first sentence "the hysteresis parameter"?
[15:57:13] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07HEAD * 10emc2/configs/sim/simulated_home.hal: double the value for comp.X.hyst to match change in comp's behavior
[15:57:40] <jepler> you can link to this change from the note: http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/configs/sim/simulated_home.hal.diff?r1=1.2;r2=1.3;f=h
[15:57:48] <jepler> will you do that? I have to leave now.
[15:57:56] <cradek> sure
[15:58:00] <jepler> thank you
[15:58:13] <skunkworks> hmmm - jmk's site seems to be timing out here.
[16:02:03] <cradek> jepler: done
[16:06:51] <skunkworks> now it is up.
[16:07:02] <skunkworks> that is a cool motherboard assembly
[16:09:35] <skunkworks> Departed FedEx location : WILLINGTON, CT
[16:20:54] <awallin> anyone know how the tooltable is read ?
[16:21:46] <awallin> do the text lines at the beginning matter at all ?
[16:23:58] <jepler> "The file consists of any number of header lines, followed by one blank line, followed by any number of lines of data. The header lines are ignored. It is important that there be exactly one blank line (with no spaces or tabs, even) before the data."
[16:24:22] <jepler> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/gcode/main/index.html#sub:Tool-File
[16:24:29] <awallin> jepler: thanks.
[16:24:41] <lerneaen_hydra> ugh, that seems rather convoluted
[16:24:47] <awallin> I'm thinking of a tooltable editor
[16:25:04] <jepler> the documentation needs to be changed to show the new "lathe tool" format
[16:25:29] <lerneaen_hydra> instead of having say # are comment lines all charachters after are comments and will be disregarded untill the next linebreak
[16:25:42] <awallin> but the header lines don't define mill/lathe, you just have to 'know'
[16:26:18] <lerneaen_hydra> jepler: is that rs748 (or something like that) spec?
[16:27:51] <jepler> that text was probably taken verbatim from http://www.isd.mel.nist.gov/personnel/kramer/pubs/RS274NGC_3.web/RS274NGC_3TOC.html
[16:32:32] <awallin> is emc2 based on the nist interpreter version3 (aug 2000) ?
[16:34:44] <cradek> awallin: yes that was the starting point
[16:35:00] <cradek> we still frequently refer to that document
[16:35:53] <awallin> any of the active emc2 contributors work at nist ?
[16:36:43] <jepler> not that I know of
[16:36:51] <cradek> currently active developers, no, but some of the NIST guys are still around and help us in various ways sometimes
[16:43:28] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders when SWPadnos wakes up
[16:43:55] <cradek> he was up late too...
[16:44:04] <alex_joni> I know...
[16:45:40] <cradek> awallin: matt shaver was at fest last year - I think he worked on emc at nist
[16:47:17] <alex_joni> not at nist
[16:47:44] <alex_joni> I think he was one of the first who used it outside of nist, while it was still been developed
[16:48:12] <tomp> matt 'found' it (emc)
[16:48:21] <jepler> hah -- I had never considered "lathing down" as a way to make a wax recording surface usable again. http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/01/08/dictaphones-save-time-of-stock-checkers-taking-inventory/
[16:48:54] <cradek> ah, ok (before my time)
[16:49:08] <alex_joni> tomp: I think JonE was earlier than that
[16:49:20] <alex_joni> but definately between the first 3 users
[16:50:28] <tomp> jepler: russian friends made rock & roll 45's on xray material during the 50's ... copied them from sailors stopping at ports... the russians called them 'rock & bones' cuz you could still see the xrays
[16:51:35] <jepler> cool
[16:52:06] <alex_joni> heh
[16:52:55] <tomp> I wanted to thank SWPadnos for his work.. the package arrived today with the Mesa boards... looks real nice :)
[16:59:05] <SWPadnos> tomp, you're welcome. thanks for lowering my costs :)
[17:17:49] <SWPadnos> yes! just 2 more spam and I'll have 10000 in my span folder
[17:17:53] <SWPadnos> (for that account)
[17:33:13] <alex_joni> I can send a couple thousands if you feel the need :D
[17:34:03] <jepler> I've got 20,000 here just waiting to be deleted
[17:34:18] <jepler> just shy of 200 megs apparently
[17:35:06] <SWPadnos> I must get bigger ones (they're "embiggened"), my 100001 are 124M
[17:36:19] <alex_joni> jepler: what timeframe?
[17:40:36] <skunkworks> I have 81567 emails in my inbox....
[17:40:57] <skunkworks> I figure ignoring them is easier..
[17:40:58] <jepler> alex_joni: these are messages since september 2006 which got a spam rating of more than 0.99 by spambayes
[17:41:12] <alex_joni> heh
[17:41:21] <jepler> (message scores go from 0 to 1)
[17:41:21] <cradek> I devnull spams that get a particular score - I have very little need to keep them...
[17:41:50] <cradek> although I did lose a "real" message that way recently
[17:42:22] <cradek> a picture sent from someone's cell phone: From address with all numbers, sent from a questionable relay, html message with no text and one big image
[17:42:29] <alex_joni> cradek: computers are unreliable
[17:42:34] <cradek> couldn't look more spammy could it
[17:42:48] <SWPadnos> alex_joni, people are unreliable :)
[17:42:59] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: sure, but we're used to that
[17:43:01] <cradek> well I tell the computer to guess for me, which it does
[17:43:10] <SWPadnos> computers are just more efficient at being unreliable ;)
[17:43:17] <alex_joni> heh
[17:43:20] <cradek> it guesses pretty darn well
[17:43:40] <alex_joni> it's a simple matter of respecting some rules
[17:43:46] <alex_joni> something people have a big problem with
[17:43:58] <SWPadnos> yeah - the jumk marker in Mozilla has been correct nearly every time. only a few newsletter type things get falsely marked aas junk
[17:44:10] <SWPadnos> junk. argh. time to make the coffee
[17:44:16] <SWPadnos> bbiab
[17:44:19] <alex_joni> well.. maybe they are junk
[17:44:34] <jepler> yeah I'm with alex_joni on this one
[17:45:16] <cradek> yep
[17:51:46] <alex_joni> I simply love newer spam
[17:51:51] <alex_joni> it's so fun to read
[17:51:51] <alex_joni> :)
[17:52:16] <alex_joni> They've already created an association between the name and the band and that's all you need. The goat stood up, and shook itself down like a dog. Please also note that not everything on this sheet will work with every language that has regular expression support. 13 were from Europe, Asia and northern Africa but none from the sub-Saharan African continent.
[17:52:43] <alex_joni> The format is as engaging and entertaining, as it is user friendly.
[17:54:14] <fenn> it's engaging and entertaining, but is it user friendly?
[17:54:36] <fenn> i think not
[18:05:32] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1-mF14GYhU
[18:12:39] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbBr9cbMqq4&mode=related&search= hahaha
[18:13:54] <alex_joni> 1 part / minute :D
[18:17:16] <skunkworks> wow
[18:21:03] <lerneaen_hydra> aarcg
[18:21:07] <lerneaen_hydra> *aargh
[18:21:27] <lerneaen_hydra> that's why having an accel input field is very, very, very good
[19:08:48] <cradek> wow I think I'd work on speeding that up a bit
[19:09:54] <SWPadnos> the comment mentions that they could run it faster if the vacuum pump were better. the vibration was causing the components to rotate at higher speeds
[19:10:04] <A-L-P-H-A> alex_joni, sad.
[19:10:24] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, use a claw!
[19:10:24] <A-L-P-H-A> :D
[19:10:59] <A-L-P-H-A> claw w/small jet of air to make sure the part leaves the claw at the right time.
[19:11:46] <SWPadnos> well, for pick-n=place applications, you probably need a little more precision than that :)
[19:12:05] <SWPadnos> note that they center/square the part on all four sides before placing it
[19:12:33] <A-L-P-H-A> speedy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghF7njMgZgs&NR
[19:13:34] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A: that's not really very fast in industrial terms
[19:13:38] <lerneaen_hydra> rather slow IMO
[19:14:12] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[19:14:28] <A-L-P-H-A> Least of my problems.
[19:14:35] <A-L-P-H-A> my problem is I got a date, and I'm not changed yet.
[19:14:35] <lerneaen_hydra> still, quite fast relative to hobby stuff
[19:14:50] <lerneaen_hydra> then why the hell are you in #emc
[19:15:17] <A-L-P-H-A> cause she's on the subway, for at least 30 minutes, while I got another 20 minutes to leave the house
[19:15:41] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A: you haven't by any chance read the game by neil strauss?
[19:15:47] <lerneaen_hydra> really funny book, you'd like it
[19:15:59] <A-L-P-H-A> nope...w hat's it about?
[19:16:36] <lerneaen_hydra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game:_Penetrating_the_Secret_Society_of_Pickup_Artists
[19:17:34] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah.
[19:17:43] <A-L-P-H-A> Based primarily on a Torontonian man.
[19:17:51] <lerneaen_hydra> heard of it?
[19:19:40] <A-L-P-H-A> nope... reading amazon review from the ditors.
[19:20:58] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[19:21:11] <A-L-P-H-A> anyways... gotta go.
[19:23:15] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[19:23:19] <lerneaen_hydra> good luck and all
[19:23:33] <lerneaen_hydra> or whatever one says in this situation
[19:25:09] <A-L-P-H-A> "play safe"
[19:25:26] <A-L-P-H-A> speaking of which... where are my jummyhats.
[19:26:38] <lerneaen_hydra> haha, play safe ^^
[19:26:46] <lerneaen_hydra> jummyhats?
[19:27:30] <A-L-P-H-A> jimmyhats aka condoms.
[19:27:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, right
[19:28:08] <lerneaen_hydra> damn I really need to get a better grip of the new slang in the us
[19:29:13] <A-L-P-H-A> jeez... I'm not an americant
[19:29:15] <cradek> me too
[19:29:29] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A: where are you now?
[19:29:32] <lerneaen_hydra> uk?
[19:29:45] <A-L-P-H-A> have always been a Canadian.
[19:29:54] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, cool
[19:30:00] <lerneaen_hydra> which county?
[19:30:21] <A-L-P-H-A> quit holding me here.. Toronto. cia now.
[19:30:28] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, byebye
[19:40:21] <robin_sz> wahey! .. looks like I might have found someone prepared to send me the boot disks for my robot!
[19:42:22] <roel01> hi all
[19:42:42] <jepler> robin_sz: great
[19:44:24] <robin_sz> guy from Comau.de
[19:44:41] <robin_sz> and .. the guy I bouhgt it off has found 6 more discs in a box
[19:44:43] <robin_sz> and ...
[19:45:02] <robin_sz> another guy has remembered he has a mate who used to be a comau distributor!
[19:45:16] <robin_sz> so thats 3 possible solutions.
[20:17:28] <anonimasu> hm..
[20:31:54] <anonimasu> robin_sz: are you awake+
[20:42:14] <SWPadnos> heh - Solitaire just crashed
[20:42:21] <SWPadnos> that was the best Windows program. sigh
[20:43:08] <anonimasu> :9
[20:49:50] <eholmgren> how did you manage to crash solitaire?
[20:50:14] <eholmgren> *click* *drag* *click* *click* *drag* *click* *click* *drag* *click* *click* *drag* *click*
[20:50:33] <alex_joni> ha
[20:51:31] <anonimasu> hm
[20:51:36] <anonimasu> im working on a odd plasma table design..
[20:52:27] <anonimasu> 2x1m..
[20:52:29] <anonimasu> single rail..
[20:53:33] <anonimasu> * anonimasu is pondering about feasability..
[20:55:03] <anonimasu> I dont think there's a problem with a load as light as the torch..
[20:55:12] <anonimasu> and with a 1m beam.. and counterbalance..
[21:07:31] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo chinmill
[21:09:23] <^eugenics> Hello world
[21:11:06] <alex_joni> hi
[21:12:11] <^eugenics> Hello alex_joni , how are you?
[21:12:29] <alex_joni> fine I guess
[21:12:35] <eholmgren> did you ever find a pallet jack?
[21:12:36] <^eugenics> alex_joni, what hapened to giacius?
[21:12:53] <alex_joni> he comes in here once in a while.. very seldom though
[21:12:56] <^eugenics> yep, the pallet is moved
[21:13:51] <^eugenics> I kind of miss giacus way of force com ;)
[21:14:53] <SWPadnos> eholmgren, I crashed it by rapidly left-clicking / right clicking. it didn't like it for some reason
[21:15:52] <anonimasu> tomp: hm
[21:16:01] <anonimasu> did anyone see what I said earlier about plasma?
[21:16:16] <anonimasu> would that be a stupid arrangement, for a 1m travel Y?
[21:16:52] <^eugenics> no
[21:17:41] <alex_joni> SWPadnos: was that spider or regular solitaire?
[21:18:04] <SWPadnos> regular
[21:18:11] <SWPadnos> "klondike" in teh Linux world ;)
[21:18:26] <alex_joni> I know what it is.. don't have it anymore I think
[21:19:59] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: building a plasma table with a single rail arrangement..
[21:20:57] <^eugenics> anonimasu, interesting
[21:21:32] <^eugenics> anonimasu, do you have any drawings?*
[21:21:37] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: not yet..
[21:21:46] <anonimasu> I think I'll skip drawing it up..
[21:21:48] <^eugenics> -* ;)
[21:21:51] <anonimasu> using some linear rails..
[21:22:16] <anonimasu> dual carrige linear rail.. on the X..
[21:22:22] <anonimasu> and a single carridge for the Y..
[21:22:33] <anonimasu> and welded steel for the frame..
[21:22:35] <anonimasu> and a belt drive..
[21:22:54] <anonimasu> if you think about a T
[21:23:31] <anonimasu> I dont see a problem with it, the load is light..
[21:24:21] <anonimasu> I guess I could draw it up..
[21:24:24] <^eugenics> maybe you will get larger errors when you are at the end of the T
[21:24:52] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: the torch is pretty light..
[21:25:30] <anonimasu> also, the rails are pretty nicely spec:ed..
[21:25:28] <^eugenics> I made a arrangement like that too but the aluminum profile was too bendable
[21:25:47] <anonimasu> how long?
[21:26:02] <^eugenics> 1,8 meters
[21:26:10] <anonimasu> this is/will be with steel..
[21:26:38] <anonimasu> http://www.solectro.se/Archive/Documents/Produktblad/LFS-8-5.pdf
[21:26:44] <anonimasu> that's the kind of linear rails..
[21:26:46] <^eugenics> probably better, anyway I changed to a H style with 2 motors
[21:26:52] <^eugenics> for the X
[21:28:01] <anonimasu> it's too complicated to build..
[21:28:15] <^eugenics> the problem for me was when I wanted to change dir of X when the tourch is at the end of the T
[21:28:38] <anonimasu> hm, did you use linear rails/homebrew stuff?
[21:28:59] <^eugenics> THK like rails
[21:29:03] <anonimasu> hm, ok..
[21:29:10] <anonimasu> it sounds odd..
[21:29:21] <anonimasu> I figure with having it counterbalanced it wont flex all that much..
[21:29:30] <anonimasu> square steel tubing for it..
[21:30:03] <^eugenics> maybe you can prepare for a alternative design if it dont work
[21:30:29] <^eugenics> steel is clearly stiffer
[21:30:47] <^eugenics> maybe it will work nice
[21:30:56] <anonimasu> where's fenn when you need him..
[21:31:05] <anonimasu> also, it's a 1m travel..
[21:31:22] <anonimasu> that adds up as much stiffer..
[21:31:26] <^eugenics> sound short!?
[21:31:30] <anonimasu> it's not..
[21:31:36] <anonimasu> 1x2m is the size of the sheets..
[21:31:36] <^eugenics> ok :)
[21:32:23] <anonimasu> there's larger ones for special steel..
[21:33:26] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: I dont get why you get bending with a linear rail..
[21:33:44] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: as you only need to fight the inertia to reverse the axis..
[21:34:08] <anonimasu> as you have no stiction with linear rails..
[21:34:20] <^eugenics> my first table was for protoyping only, and it was biuld too weak I guess
[21:34:44] <anonimasu> alu might even do for a 1m beam..
[21:34:52] <anonimasu> steel should be even better.
[21:35:25] <anonimasu> hm, maybe I should bolt a 1m steel beam to something and apply force..
[21:35:40] <anonimasu> http://www.solectro.se/Archive/Documents/Produktblad/LFS-8-5.pdf
[21:35:50] <anonimasu> that's the kind of slides..
[21:37:11] <^eugenics> my problem appered like this: when the torch wat out on the T I could change X small back and forth without that the torch would move
[21:37:39] <cradek> k
[21:37:51] <anonimasu> if anyone has a clue feel free to help :9
[21:38:25] <^eugenics> anonimasu, any good price on those rails?
[21:38:28] <anonimasu> yes..
[21:38:36] <anonimasu> 220eur.. rail and carrige..
[21:38:35] <^eugenics> about?
[21:38:39] <anonimasu> tech isel
[21:38:43] <^eugenics> ok
[21:39:58] <^eugenics> anonimasu, what is your demand for resoultion errors?
[21:40:11] <anonimasu> ^eugenics: +/- 2mm..
[21:41:20] <^eugenics> my guess would be that it might work, but try to think of a backup solution before you build
[21:42:00] <anonimasu> hm..
[21:42:04] <anonimasu> that was helpful..
[21:42:04] <anonimasu> :)
[21:42:20] <^eugenics> *smiling*
[21:43:14] <^eugenics> maybe if I wish it works good it will do so ;)
[21:43:50] <^eugenics> the safe bet is a H style
[21:43:55] <anonimasu> heh..
[21:44:00] <anonimasu> space is a issue..
[21:44:29] <^eugenics> (the X will be shorter)
[21:44:45] <anonimasu> x will not be shorter.. I need 2m..
[21:45:11] <^eugenics> yes but with a T style you need slighty longer X
[21:45:34] <^eugenics> right!?
[21:45:54] <anonimasu> not much..
[21:46:11] <Bo^Dick> it seems to be a lot of mechanical considerations in cnc applications
[21:46:35] <^eugenics> maybe around 30cm dif!?
[21:46:43] <SWPadnos> there are a lot of mechanical considerations in most mechanical endeavors
[21:46:48] <anonimasu> yeah..
[21:47:02] <anonimasu> something like 10..
[21:48:10] <^eugenics> the tighter the double wagon on the x will produce more probs at the end of the T
[21:48:52] <anonimasu> yeah, but if you look at the figures, on the sheet..
[21:49:02] <anonimasu> you can see how stiff the rails are..
[21:53:29] <^eugenics> anonimasu, its very important that you make the T sturdy
[21:53:35] <anonimasu> Yes.
[21:53:44] <anonimasu> :)
[21:53:52] <^eugenics> Ill keep my fingers crossed
[21:55:48] <^eugenics> maybe you will find some more advice from the others, but there is reasons for almost anyone to choose the classical H
[21:56:59] <alex_joni> * alex_joni was thinking of a tripod :)
[21:57:07] <alex_joni> and I'll still build that someday
[21:57:11] <anonimasu> tripod?
[21:57:16] <^eugenics> I learnd the hard way :)
[21:57:16] <alex_joni> anonimasu: wires
[21:57:19] <anonimasu> noce..
[21:57:39] <alex_joni> kins are simple, and proven :)
[21:57:48] <alex_joni> I have parts of what I need..
[21:59:29] <skunkworks> alex_joni: bigger version of your washer machine?
[21:59:58] <alex_joni> skunkworks: yeah
[22:00:06] <skunkworks> so 3 motors for 2 axis?
[22:00:07] <alex_joni> 3x3m workspace or bigger
[22:00:12] <alex_joni> skunkworks: 3 axes
[22:00:15] <alex_joni> there is also Z
[22:00:29] <alex_joni> washer was too light to show how Z works
[22:00:45] <alex_joni> gravity needs to play along
[22:00:46] <skunkworks> ah - ok
[22:01:23] <alex_joni> I'm thinking of using a couple of balancers
[22:01:53] <alex_joni> http://www.gluguru.com/Balancer%20Large.jpg
[22:01:59] <alex_joni> place a motor on the wire
[22:02:06] <cradek> arrrgh
[22:02:11] <cradek> home delivery/signature required
[22:02:23] <alex_joni> you're not home ?
[22:02:33] <cradek> not during the day, no.
[22:02:51] <cradek> why signature required?? set the box on the step, go away
[22:02:57] <alex_joni> heh
[22:03:17] <cradek> maybe they will anyway.
[22:03:26] <alex_joni> then you're gonna sue them for misplacing your 10million$ package
[22:04:59] <alex_joni> isn't there a place where you can pick it up?
[22:05:28] <cradek> maybe after the failed delivery, I don't know
[22:07:04] <skunkworks> alex: I think I asked you this before - how would you home the machine?
[22:07:22] <alex_joni> skunkworks: hardly
[22:07:27] <alex_joni> maybe markers on the wires
[22:07:41] <alex_joni> move all joints to max extended
[22:07:51] <alex_joni> then move one joint to it's minimum, home
[22:07:56] <alex_joni> repeat for other 2
[22:12:18] <skunkworks> interesting
[22:14:06] <SWPadnos> cradek, I didn't notice until the last package (which was going to a business) that there was an option about that. the two options were "direct signature required" and "adult signature required"
[22:14:27] <SWPadnos> they should leave a tag that you can sign
[22:14:33] <alex_joni> I think "adult.. " would be better for cradek
[22:14:34] <alex_joni> :-P
[22:14:41] <cradek> SWPadnos: no problem, I'm complaining? about them, not you
[22:14:44] <SWPadnos> "humanoid mark required"
[22:15:00] <SWPadnos> no problem
[22:15:03] <alex_joni> put your paw on the white spot
[22:15:03] <cradek> if not adult, maybe junior or buster can sign
[22:15:09] <cradek> yeah
[22:15:27] <cradek> maybe buster could be considered adult, I don't know for sure
[22:15:45] <cradek> he's 2 or 3
[22:15:53] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:16:05] <alex_joni> sounds like adult to me :D
[22:19:14] <alex_joni> lol.. http://www.entropiauniverse.com/en/rich/5676.html
[22:20:57] <skunkworks> odd - says I am banned from the ubuntu channel
[22:21:09] <lerneaen_hydra> skunkworks has been a very bad boy
[22:21:23] <lerneaen_hydra> I think I got banned from some channel way back
[22:21:35] <alex_joni> skunkworks: there you go for not helping out :D
[22:21:39] <lerneaen_hydra> said something that an op didn't like
[22:21:47] <lerneaen_hydra> I think it was yes
[22:21:55] <lerneaen_hydra> (that I said)
[22:22:33] <cradek> some people get a little silly when they have channel ops
[22:22:43] <lerneaen_hydra> btw, does anyone know of a circuit like the L298 but with more current output?
[22:22:54] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: yeah, tell me about it...
[22:22:55] <skunkworks> I don't think I have said anything on the channel for weeks
[22:22:57] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: two L298s?
[22:23:10] <cradek> (seriously - I think you can parallel them, check the datasheet)
[22:23:12] <lerneaen_hydra> in parellell?
[22:23:23] <cradek> depends how much more you mean
[22:23:23] <alex_joni> you definately can do that with L293
[22:23:25] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, wouldn't you get issues if one is high and the other is low?
[22:23:35] <skunkworks> skunkworks is now known as skunkworks_
[22:23:36] <cradek> you wire the inputs together too
[22:23:42] <lerneaen_hydra> and they will be different when the switch
[22:23:48] <lerneaen_hydra> if only for a few µS
[22:23:52] <cradek> heh
[22:23:56] <skunkworks_> going by my ip?
[22:23:59] <skunkworks_> odd
[22:24:03] <cradek> don't argue, check the datasheet!
[22:24:10] <cradek> I just think I remember seeing that.
[22:24:31] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: that's the thing, I didn't see anything when I looked through it
[22:24:38] <cradek> oh...
[22:24:41] <cradek> maybe I'm crazy then
[22:24:53] <alex_joni> cradek: it works for L293, I bet L298 works too
[22:24:54] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:25:04] <lerneaen_hydra> no, I'm just analphabetic
[22:25:11] <cradek> I can join #ubuntu - there are 1006 in the channel
[22:25:11] <alex_joni> L293 is dip though, so it's easy to stack them :D
[22:25:18] <lerneaen_hydra> "For higher currents, outputs can be paralleled. Take care to parallel channel 1 with channel 4 and channel 2 with channel 3."
[22:25:25] <skunkworks_> cradek: thanks
[22:25:31] <alex_joni> same here: 1007
[22:25:34] <alex_joni> quite a crowd
[22:26:02] <skunkworks_> #ubuntu You're banned from that channel
[22:26:23] <anonimasu> heh
[22:26:36] <alex_joni> /kickban skunkworks_
[22:26:40] <skunkworks_> :)
[22:26:42] <cradek> strange, I wonder why
[22:26:50] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I didn't quite get the datasheet completely, is the input to the l298 quadrature?
[22:26:57] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: is the nick registered?
[22:27:01] <skunkworks_> Maybe they always see me on there - and not contributing?
[22:27:09] <anonimasu> heh..
[22:27:12] <alex_joni> skunkworks_: that's not a reason
[22:27:14] <skunkworks_> alex_joni: tried it both ways.
[22:27:40] <cradek> lerneaen_hydra: no, it's only an h bridge
[22:28:04] <lerneaen_hydra> cradek: I don't think I can read images at all today actually
[22:28:13] <lerneaen_hydra> and I can't even write english today
[22:28:19] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra fels dum
[22:28:45] <alex_joni> * alex_joni passes lerneaen_hydra a 'b'
[22:29:03] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra gobbles it up
[22:29:08] <lerneaen_hydra> yubby
[22:30:06] <alex_joni> g'night
[22:30:12] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night
[22:30:18] <skunkworks_> night alex
[22:30:54] <skunkworks_> skunkworks_ is now known as skunkworks
[22:32:55] <skunkworks> bbl
[22:33:07] <skunkworks> take my ip an go home ;)
[22:41:17] <anonimasu> that'd hm..
[22:41:43] <anonimasu> hm...
[22:41:46] <anonimasu> I have a beam design..
[22:42:28] <anonimasu> deflection of 5N at the end shows a displacement of 3.396e-002
[22:42:45] <SWPadnos> inches or mm
[22:42:47] <SWPadnos> ?
[22:43:01] <anonimasu> mm
[22:43:09] <SWPadnos> ok - that's good then :)
[22:43:40] <anonimasu> how much does that end up as..
[22:43:43] <anonimasu> 0.03?
[22:43:51] <SWPadnos> yes
[22:43:56] <anonimasu> that's ok..
[22:44:07] <anonimasu> I guess it'll deflect less with the linear slide..
[22:44:15] <anonimasu> this is with 5N at the far end..
[22:44:36] <anonimasu> the slides has steel shafts also, that'll resist to bending..
[22:44:42] <lerneaen_hydra> 5N?
[22:44:50] <lerneaen_hydra> what are you going to be doing really?
[22:45:00] <anonimasu> plasma torch..
[22:45:01] <eholmgren> fig newtons?
[22:45:05] <lerneaen_hydra> even foam cutting has more force than that?
[22:45:07] <eholmgren> or the rasberry kind
[22:45:09] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[22:45:28] <lerneaen_hydra> no force on the torch?
[22:45:37] <anonimasu> nothing more then the motor..
[22:45:46] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:45:47] <lerneaen_hydra> nice
[22:46:00] <anonimasu> and that force.. will probably end up as linear..
[22:46:02] <anonimasu> |
[22:46:04] <anonimasu> with the beam..
[22:46:15] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, if it's constant
[22:46:16] <anonimasu> as the belt will run on the inside of the beam..
[22:46:24] <anonimasu> or on top..
[22:46:29] <anonimasu> havent decided on a design..
[22:46:35] <anonimasu> im just calc:ing
[22:46:56] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:47:08] <anonimasu> cosmosworks express..
[22:47:29] <anonimasu> I have a modification that'll make it stiffer..
[22:47:39] <anonimasu> capping the end ;)
[22:48:25] <lerneaen_hydra> bah, something that simple is best done manually :D
[22:48:27] <anonimasu> want to see the pic?
[22:48:31] <lerneaen_hydra> sure
[22:48:33] <anonimasu> simple?
[22:48:37] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[22:48:43] <lerneaen_hydra> it's very simple actually
[22:48:44] <anonimasu> what thing is simple?
[22:48:51] <lerneaen_hydra> doing it manually
[22:48:56] <anonimasu> calculating it?
[22:49:01] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, not with a cap
[22:49:07] <lerneaen_hydra> but a profile and a force
[22:49:10] <anonimasu> this is with \|/
[22:49:13] <lerneaen_hydra> and the deflection
[22:49:14] <anonimasu> to stiffen it up ;)
[22:49:24] <anonimasu> wait a sec.. and I'll show you
[22:49:26] <lerneaen_hydra> the \|/ ?
[22:49:30] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:49:31] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:49:32] <anonimasu> supports..
[22:49:36] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:49:48] <lerneaen_hydra> the base is the top of the text line
[22:49:59] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:50:00] <lerneaen_hydra> then it's harder if the lines aren't infinetly strong
[22:50:04] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:50:08] <anonimasu> I have a better idea.. really
[22:50:11] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:50:17] <lerneaen_hydra> I assume load is going to be placed to the right or left?
[22:50:22] <lerneaen_hydra> pulling to the right/left
[22:50:27] <anonimasu> yeah.. or center..
[22:50:47] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, you'd better send an image for I am now braindead
[22:50:54] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:51:21] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/6873
[22:51:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:51:58] <lerneaen_hydra> t3h nastiness
[22:52:05] <anonimasu> ?
[22:52:21] <anonimasu> I hope you dont hate me for doing that kind of thing ;)
[22:52:23] <lerneaen_hydra> if it was just a pipe or a square profile doing it manually would be easy
[22:52:30] <anonimasu> yep
[22:52:35] <lerneaen_hydra> are you going to weld the supports on?
[22:52:39] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:52:42] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:52:49] <lerneaen_hydra> what material?
[22:52:52] <anonimasu> iron
[22:53:12] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, it may be worth looking into having it in alu and thicker
[22:53:17] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, wait
[22:53:22] <lerneaen_hydra> it's stability that's the issue
[22:53:26] <anonimasu> hm, I can simulate it in alu instead..
[22:53:26] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:53:31] <anonimasu> stability/deflection..
[22:53:34] <anonimasu> and resonance..
[22:53:34] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[22:53:44] <anonimasu> but, if it's stiff enough it solves it..
[22:53:49] <lerneaen_hydra> with alu you get a much thicker wall with the same weight
[22:54:01] <lerneaen_hydra> however it has a lower modulus of elasticity
[22:54:06] <anonimasu> yeah.. it'll flex more..
[22:54:18] <anonimasu> I can run the simulation in alu if you want..
[22:54:30] <lerneaen_hydra> the best thing would be just to test it in alu with all parts thicker
[22:54:34] <lerneaen_hydra> to keep the same weight
[22:54:54] <anonimasu> im running the same part in alu.. exactly the same, just to see
[22:54:57] <lerneaen_hydra> iirc that's about 300% thicker
[22:55:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, then it's going to suck balls
[22:55:06] <lerneaen_hydra> literally
[22:55:25] <lerneaen_hydra> it's about twice as flexy
[22:55:27] <anonimasu> hm..
[22:55:41] <anonimasu> 5.891e002
[22:55:52] <lerneaen_hydra> nearly exactly twice as bad
[22:55:55] <lerneaen_hydra> not bad for a guess ;)
[22:56:03] <anonimasu> 0.05yeah..
[22:56:12] <anonimasu> not bad either..
[22:56:14] <lerneaen_hydra> now try stiffening it up
[22:56:15] <anonimasu> but welding alu..
[22:56:16] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:56:20] <lerneaen_hydra> so it's 3x as thick
[22:56:33] <anonimasu> still alu is pointless as it's hard to work in..
[22:56:37] <lerneaen_hydra> you could go for bolts every X cm
[22:56:38] <lerneaen_hydra> huh?
[22:56:50] <lerneaen_hydra> alu is wonderful to work with if you have a good alloy
[22:56:56] <anonimasu> hard to get/weld..
[22:56:59] <anonimasu> especially at 1m bar..
[22:57:05] <anonimasu> 6mm thick..
[22:57:22] <anonimasu> heat disspassion issues ..
[22:57:27] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, how about guy-wires?
[22:57:28] <anonimasu> hm, lets try it..
[22:57:34] <anonimasu> guy wires?
[22:57:45] <lerneaen_hydra> steel wires going to some central post
[22:57:45] <anonimasu> let's see if I cap the tne..
[22:57:48] <anonimasu> end..
[22:57:55] <anonimasu> to stiffen it?
[22:57:58] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[22:58:02] <anonimasu> I cant simulate that..
[22:58:04] <anonimasu> :)
[22:58:05] <lerneaen_hydra> like a bridge or something
[22:58:07] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[22:58:10] <lerneaen_hydra> heh
[22:58:12] <lerneaen_hydra> um
[22:58:20] <anonimasu> though if I do a H style brace
[22:58:21] <lerneaen_hydra> that's actually rather funny that you said that
[22:58:23] <anonimasu> with the roller in the center..
[22:58:30] <anonimasu> yeah I know ;)
[22:58:41] <anonimasu> then I'll get it stiffer in the Y direction..
[22:58:44] <anonimasu> |
[22:58:59] <anonimasu> as the front and the back wall will be connected and the load end up at the support..
[22:59:18] <lerneaen_hydra> at school there are some lecturers that seem to think that if you can't simulate it, it doesn't exist, and if the simulation says X, and reality says Y, reality is wrong/incorrectly measured
[22:59:25] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:59:31] <anonimasu> I cant do the math, so I simulate..
[23:00:22] <lerneaen_hydra> hehe, ok
[23:22:01] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night all
[23:26:31] <skunkworks> hmm still banned from ubuntu channel. (here at home also)
[23:26:34] <skunkworks> odd
[23:27:23] <skunkworks> I must have made someone mad by not talking :o
[23:31:58] <anonimasu> hehe
[23:32:05] <anonimasu> skunkworks: what do you think about this?
[23:32:30] <anonimasu> http://imagebin.org/6873
[23:32:32] <cradek> skunkworks: Seveas is the op in there - maybe you should msg him
[23:32:45] <anonimasu> or well cradek..
[23:32:55] <anonimasu> you guys probably know more then I do about this kind of stuf..
[23:33:30] <anonimasu> :)
[23:36:04] <skunkworks> anonimasu: looks like greek to me ;)
[23:36:26] <anonimasu> skunkworks: 0.03mm of deflection over 1m.. with 50N on the end..
[23:36:41] <anonimasu> that's without the rails that mounts onto it..
[23:36:45] <anonimasu> rails/rail..
[23:42:09] <ejholmgren> home depot should start carrying flat copper stock
[23:42:32] <ejholmgren> I had to buy copper plumbing brackets to make my shunts
[23:48:09] <skunkworks> cradek: thanks - he says it is because I was using a java irc client. They are now banning 'real name' clients set to 'java user'
[23:48:53] <skunkworks> I don't know if I can change it - On pjirc's site they show the /name being a command but it doesn't seem to work;
[23:49:07] <SWPadnos> skunkworks, what browser do you use?
[23:49:23] <skunkworks> Might have to get a real irc client again.
[23:49:25] <skunkworks> ie 7
[23:49:32] <SWPadnos> chatzilla works well for me
[23:49:34] <SWPadnos> ewww
[23:49:39] <skunkworks> :)
[23:49:41] <SWPadnos> can you install firefox?
[23:50:26] <skunkworks> I could. but people going from the irc java client on linuxcnc.org are now banned from ubuntu.
[23:50:39] <SWPadnos> bummer
[23:50:51] <SWPadnos> they should get a real client also ;)
[23:51:31] <skunkworks> unless you guys can change the default 'real name' that the client uses.. Supposidly it is set to 'java user'
[23:51:36] <skunkworks> I am still looking
[23:51:45] <anonimasu> hm..
[23:52:43] <SWPadnos> when you joined at 17:00 (EST), the n=yaddayadda was set to [email protected]
[23:52:48] <anonimasu> hm.
[23:53:18] <SWPadnos> anonimasu, why are you simulating a beam tha'ts only fixed at one end?
[23:53:33] <skunkworks> n=skunkwor d38-94.rb.lax.centurytel.net * Java User
[23:53:39] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: a plasma table with one open end..
[23:53:51] <SWPadnos> does the support have to be open ended?
[23:53:57] <anonimasu> perferably
[23:54:09] <anonimasu> the results with the latest design of it is better..
[23:54:11] <anonimasu> > 6.406e-003
[23:54:12] <SWPadnos> on the bottom? why would that be needed?
[23:54:30] <anonimasu> torch/thc assembly..
[23:54:42] <skunkworks> http://www.pjirc.com/help.php?p=1 - here it says I should be able to set - 'real name' by the /name command - but it says it is not a valid command.
[23:54:49] <SWPadnos> ah - nevermind. this is the "head", which needs to not have supports at the open side
[23:55:00] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:55:33] <anonimasu> it's to get the load on the carridge instead of on the beam..
[23:55:46] <SWPadnos> you should do it as a vertical load, and make sure the calcs include the beam mass
[23:56:04] <anonimasu> I think it does..
[23:56:05] <SWPadnos> ? is the beam not going to be supporting the carriage?
[23:56:09] <anonimasu> no..
[23:56:14] <anonimasu> there'll be a linear rail mounted onto it..
[23:56:19] <anonimasu> with 2 stell shafts..
[23:56:23] <SWPadnos> ok. nevermind me then, I have no idea what you're trying to design ;)
[23:56:28] <anonimasu> that'll distribute the load even more..
[23:56:32] <anonimasu> SWPadnos: a plasma table..
[23:56:35] <anonimasu> in a T shape..
[23:56:46] <anonimasu> that's the |
[23:56:51] <anonimasu> the Y axis..
[23:56:53] <anonimasu> the short one..
[23:57:25] <SWPadnos> ok, so the beam does support the carriage, and the steel rails ...
[23:57:32] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:57:47] <anonimasu> they add stiffness to it also..
[23:58:06] <SWPadnos> (support in this case meaning "prevents it from hitting the ground", not "it's fastened to this")
[23:58:14] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:58:25] <anonimasu> yeah it's fastened..
[23:58:39] <anonimasu> bolted onto the beam..
[23:58:47] <SWPadnos> this is supposed to be 1M long?
[23:58:51] <anonimasu> yes
[23:59:03] <SWPadnos> how much height do you have above it?
[23:59:16] <anonimasu> above?
[23:59:19] <anonimasu> you mean from the material?
[23:59:25] <SWPadnos> yes - above the machine ...
[23:59:29] <anonimasu> 10cm..
[23:59:31] <SWPadnos> oh
[23:59:31] <anonimasu> or more..
[23:59:51] <anonimasu> as im designing it's a matter of choice :)