#emc | Logs for 2007-01-21

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[00:58:36] <fenn> ahh wtf.. i locked up a python shell?
[00:58:47] <robin_sz> silly fenn
[00:58:53] <robin_sz> pythons dont have shells
[00:58:58] <robin_sz> thats a tortoise!
[00:59:06] <anonimasu> :/
[00:59:09] <fenn> and i cant kill it and it doesnt show up on ps??
[00:59:19] <anonimasu> damn.
[00:59:23] <anonimasu> fenn: you might want to add a quit at the end
[00:59:35] <skullworks> that took skill!
[00:59:38] <fenn> wasnt your script
[00:59:47] <anonimasu> ah ok
[01:00:06] <fenn> bleh
[01:00:24] <anonimasu> otherwise it left me with python windows all over the place
[01:00:27] <alex_joni> maybe it was too much for the python to swallow?
[01:00:31] <fenn> i hate the default vtk interactor
[01:00:39] <alex_joni> I hear they sometimes need a couple of days to digest things
[01:00:50] <anonimasu> fenn: agreed
[01:01:26] <anonimasu> fenn: odd huh?
[01:01:33] <fenn> will fix
[01:02:53] <fenn> pastebin.ca is faster btw
[01:02:56] <anonimasu> fenn: can you explain why it does this?
[01:03:04] <anonimasu> ok
[01:04:02] <fenn> http://pastebin.ca/323105
[01:04:10] <fenn> i gave up on pastebin.com
[01:04:47] <robin_sz> "maybe it was too much for the python to swallow?"
[01:05:00] <robin_sz> great line, I shall use it someday :)
[01:05:18] <fenn> first of all.. why is your cone a cube?
[01:05:39] <anonimasu> fenn: haha, I stole a example and didnt bother to change it..
[01:05:52] <alex_joni> busted
[01:06:02] <anonimasu> then I noticed the problem with the cubes..
[01:06:03] <alex_joni> the python shall bite your a$$ for that
[01:06:06] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: finish adding gcoderef to the cnc menu, take the udev restart out of -sim
[01:06:06] <anonimasu> with the z offset..
[01:06:11] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: finish adding gcoderef to the cnc menu, take the udev restart out of -sim
[01:06:19] <anonimasu> or whatever you would refer to it as
[01:12:09] <fenn> anonimasu: hmmmm....
[01:22:41] <fenn> anonimasu: h/2 - 0.5
[01:24:33] <anonimasu> Why -0.5?
[01:25:22] <anonimasu> fenn: but that breaks it on even stuff ;)
[01:26:05] <fenn> nope it works
[01:26:12] <fenn> http://pastebin.ca/323127
[01:26:13] <anonimasu> err uneven..
[01:26:20] <anonimasu> try with H = 5
[01:26:24] <fenn> i even tried zero and various decimal values
[01:27:24] <fenn> the cube on the left must be at -0.5
[01:27:49] <anonimasu> ah.
[01:27:51] <anonimasu> default origin..
[01:27:53] <anonimasu> that solves itself..
[01:28:10] <anonimasu> as all cubes will be generated at the plane..
[01:28:16] <anonimasu> then /2 should fix it..
[01:28:31] <fenn> although GetCenter says (0,0,0)
[01:28:56] <anonimasu> heh
[01:29:32] <anonimasu> no..
[01:29:34] <fenn> gee that's weird
[01:29:36] <anonimasu> yeah
[01:29:59] <anonimasu> I did offset the first cube to 0.5 and it works..
[01:30:11] <anonimasu> the 2nd..
[01:30:13] <anonimasu> :)
[01:30:32] <anonimasu> it works then..
[01:30:36] <anonimasu> but it seems like a bug..
[01:31:24] <anonimasu> no.. wait..
[01:31:32] <anonimasu> it's the offset of the height..
[01:31:34] <anonimasu> :)
[01:31:41] <anonimasu> how stupid of me
[01:32:03] <anonimasu> you always need to do H/2
[01:32:09] <anonimasu> to get the cube at the same plane..
[01:32:33] <anonimasu> if the cube height is 1 the origin needs to be at 0.5 for the plane to match :)
[01:34:09] <anonimasu> gETmatchstick1.SetZLength(H)
[01:34:08] <anonimasu> matchstick1.SetCenter(1,0,(matchstick1.GetZLength()/2))
[01:34:55] <anonimasu> :)
[01:35:57] <fenn> right
[01:36:08] <anonimasu> once you make it a proper function you wont ever see it..
[01:36:13] <fenn> that's what i'm doing now
[01:36:19] <anonimasu> im writing a stick array..
[01:36:57] <anonimasu> how large do you think sticks should be?
[01:37:08] <anonimasu> or well, ofcourse it has to be dynamic..
[01:41:28] <anonimasu> http://code.enthought.com/ets/doc/api_docs/enthought.tvtk.array_handler.html
[01:42:40] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/tkemc.tcl: backport 1.41: experimental fix for problem with abort offset confusion
[01:45:41] <anonimasu> hm, apparently "Numeric" is what to use for arrays..
[01:45:49] <anonimasu> it's faster then the built in lists..
[01:49:13] <fenn> yay
[01:49:22] <fenn> i made a matchstick class
[01:49:28] <anonimasu> :)
[01:49:36] <anonimasu> you are faster then I am
[01:49:36] <anonimasu> :D
[01:49:51] <anonimasu> im working on getting a 2d array..
[01:50:27] <fenn> if you show me yours i'll show you mine
[01:50:37] <anonimasu> :D
[01:50:42] <anonimasu> I dont have lots yet
[01:50:52] <anonimasu> from Numeric import zeros
[01:50:53] <anonimasu> A = zeros( (100,100) )
[01:50:53] <anonimasu> print A
[01:50:55] <anonimasu> that's mine
[01:50:55] <anonimasu> ;)
[01:50:58] <anonimasu> works :)
[01:51:25] <fenn> what does zeros do?
[01:51:31] <fenn> a 100x100 array of zero?
[01:51:38] <anonimasu> yeah..
[01:52:47] <anonimasu> http://www.penzilla.net/tutorials/python/numeric/
[01:53:55] <alex_joni> emc2.1.0~alpha1 uploaded
[01:54:13] <anonimasu> fenn: "empty" works also
[01:54:18] <anonimasu> instead os zeros
[01:54:22] <anonimasu> and it's 200% faster..
[01:54:28] <anonimasu> that's probably what we want..
[01:56:06] <anonimasu> and then size(A)
[01:58:27] <fenn> hrm
[01:58:39] <anonimasu> arrays in python seems rather messy
[01:59:13] <fenn> * fenn decides not to ask his question and take the easy way out
[01:59:19] <anonimasu> ask it..
[01:59:23] <anonimasu> :)
[01:59:24] <anonimasu> please
[02:01:28] <anonimasu> here's more
[02:01:27] <anonimasu> from Numeric import *
[02:01:27] <anonimasu> A = empty( (10,10) )
[02:01:27] <anonimasu> for i in xrange(0,size(A)):
[02:01:27] <anonimasu> print(i)
[02:02:09] <anonimasu> Hm, not right.
[02:02:19] <anonimasu> needs another dimension.
[02:08:31] <robin_sz> hmmm
[02:08:40] <anonimasu> hm..
[02:08:44] <anonimasu> python is really not nice with arrays.
[02:12:39] <fenn> ok.. what's goin on here
[02:12:41] <fenn> self.add(1, 1, 1)
[02:12:42] <fenn> TypeError: add() takes exactly 3 arguments (4 given)
[02:13:03] <anonimasu> remove your spaces
[02:13:10] <jepler> fenn: the 4th argument is the implicit 'self' argument
[02:13:59] <jepler> or, rather, the first argument is -- the third 1 is the 4th argument
[02:14:03] <jepler> does that make any sense?
[02:14:10] <fenn> yes
[02:14:23] <fenn> so i should have def add(self, x, y, z) or whatever
[02:16:40] <anonimasu> :)
[02:17:15] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/app-defaults/XEmc: font fix
[02:18:48] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/scripts/emc.in: starts too fast - temporary hack
[02:18:59] <anonimasu> fenn:
[02:19:03] <anonimasu> from Numeric import *
[02:19:03] <anonimasu> length=100
[02:19:03] <anonimasu> height=10
[02:19:03] <anonimasu> A = empty( (length,height) )
[02:19:04] <anonimasu> for yI in xrange(1,height):
[02:19:06] <anonimasu> for xI in xrange(1,length):
[02:19:09] <anonimasu> A[xI][yI]=height;
[02:19:11] <anonimasu> print A
[02:20:21] <jepler> there's an easier way to set all the elements to a scalar
[02:20:24] <jepler> >>> n = Numeric.empty((3,3))
[02:20:22] <jepler> >>> n[:] = 7
[02:21:00] <fenn> whee
[02:21:03] <fenn> i have an array of cubes
[02:21:07] <anonimasu> ok=
[02:21:34] <fenn> its horribly wasteful i'm sure
[02:21:37] <anonimasu> fenn: share your code :D
[02:22:14] <alex_joni> good night all
[02:22:22] <jepler> see you alex
[02:23:48] <anonimasu> fenn: I made a sticks class now
[02:26:45] <fenn> anonimasu: http://pastebin.ca/323175
[02:27:07] <fenn> i think i forgot to set the z position somehow
[02:27:27] <anonimasu> here's mine
[02:27:28] <anonimasu> from Numeric import *
[02:27:29] <anonimasu> def creatematrix(height,length,resolution):
[02:27:29] <anonimasu> stickmatrix = empty((height,length))
[02:27:29] <anonimasu> creatematrix(10,10,10) # Height in mm, Width in mm, resolution per mm
[02:28:11] <fenn> fixed http://pastebin.ca/323178
[02:28:41] <fenn> ok so how do you add an object to the array?
[02:29:07] <anonimasu> fenn: add?
[02:29:21] <fenn> you have an array of numbers
[02:29:21] <anonimasu> fenn: x/y will be the cutter coordinates..
[02:29:37] <fenn> i have an array of objects with no numbers associated with them
[02:29:55] <fenn> well, actually ou have an array of empties
[02:30:02] <anonimasu> fenn: I'm going to set it in another function..
[02:30:07] <anonimasu> so you can create the array then set the height for everything
[02:30:26] <anonimasu> or should I make it set height too?
[02:30:59] <anonimasu> ah..
[02:31:00] <anonimasu> wait a sec.
[02:31:01] <fenn> uh oh my brain just gave out
[02:31:20] <anonimasu> sorry
[02:31:50] <fenn> coding from scratch is so much more fun than trying to decipher someone else's code
[02:32:06] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[02:32:12] <anonimasu> from Numeric import *
[02:32:12] <anonimasu> def creatematrix(sizeX,sizeY,defaultZ,resolution):
[02:32:12] <anonimasu> global stickmatrix
[02:32:12] <anonimasu> stickmatrix = empty((sizeY,sizeX))
[02:32:12] <anonimasu> stickmatrix[:] = defaultZ;
[02:32:13] <anonimasu> creatematrix(10,10,5,10) # Height in mm, Width in mm, resolution per mm
[02:32:17] <anonimasu> there you go
[02:32:55] <fenn> shouldnt that be sizeX*resolution etc
[02:33:02] <anonimasu> yes
[02:33:25] <fenn> ok so.. we have this array
[02:33:37] <fenn> oh i get it
[02:33:45] <fenn> i'm just displaying the array
[02:33:47] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:34:33] <anonimasu> you need to call the stick array with the same arguments
[02:34:44] <anonimasu> to create the offsets for all stocks
[02:34:44] <anonimasu> sticks..
[02:34:53] <anonimasu> the x/y offsets..
[02:36:02] <fenn> uh, i dont like the global
[02:36:10] <anonimasu> we should make it a class..
[02:36:55] <A-L-P-H-A> ????????????
[02:36:56] <anonimasu> Or add it into your class..
[02:36:56] <fenn> will try to work it into what i've got for heightmap()
[02:36:57] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, what time is it?
[02:37:03] <anonimasu> 03:37
[02:37:12] <A-L-P-H-A> fenn? what was that about LH being my henchman?
[02:37:15] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu... :)
[02:37:20] <anonimasu> fenn: that way we can grab the offsets at the same time..
[02:37:53] <anonimasu> fenn: uh
[02:37:56] <anonimasu> fenn: this is wrong..
[02:38:09] <anonimasu> fenn: matchsticks should go into a class called stickgrid.. or something
[02:38:22] <anonimasu> err heightmap ;)
[02:38:26] <anonimasu> my head's messing
[02:41:26] <fenn> self self self self self
[02:41:46] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:42:36] <anonimasu> fenn: I think this stuff will be nice when done
[02:46:45] <anonimasu> self.add(i,j,A[i][j]) #something pretty
[02:46:54] <anonimasu> err stickarray
[02:46:59] <anonimasu> or whatever..
[02:47:07] <anonimasu> my head just ceased working
[02:49:25] <fenn> uhhh..
[02:49:40] <fenn> A[i:j] gives me [5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 ... 5]
[02:50:07] <fenn> ah duh
[02:50:12] <fenn> ok a[i][j] works
[02:50:28] <anonimasu> :)
[02:50:37] <anonimasu> yep
[02:51:02] <fenn> ok i think it works
[02:51:36] <anonimasu> paste your code :)
[02:51:40] <fenn> its very slow with 10 cubes per mm
[02:51:43] <anonimasu> :/
[02:52:10] <anonimasu> that sucks
[02:52:21] <anonimasu> can it be your pc?
[02:52:30] <fenn> http://pastebin.ca/323193
[02:53:07] <anonimasu> hm..
[02:53:11] <anonimasu> runs super smooth
[02:53:59] <anonimasu> eh, that's not the right one is it?
[02:54:34] <fenn> that's only 200 cubes
[02:54:44] <fenn> apparently 200 is ok but 1000 is too many
[02:55:34] <anonimasu> hm
[02:56:03] <fenn> maybe it would be better to use vtkQuadPoly or something
[02:56:14] <anonimasu> hm, yeah maybe not a proper box..
[02:56:25] <anonimasu> I were thinking of using pyopengl and just creating the 4 sides manually
[02:57:27] <anonimasu> press w
[02:57:31] <anonimasu> in the window..
[02:57:51] <anonimasu> hm, the performance is pretty bad..
[02:58:15] <anonimasu> 200*4
[02:58:22] <anonimasu> that's just 800 polys..
[02:58:31] <anonimasu> if it does render all sides..
[02:59:05] <anonimasu> night
[02:59:12] <anonimasu> let's think about this more tomorrow :)
[02:59:18] <fenn> aww you wimp
[02:59:22] <anonimasu> heh
[02:59:25] <anonimasu> 03:59
[02:59:28] <fenn> i'll poke around and see what i can do
[02:59:29] <anonimasu> yeah do that
[02:59:37] <anonimasu> we'll find a way somehow :)
[03:00:10] <fenn> night
[03:03:39] <DanielFalck> fenn, cool. I got it running here- your code
[03:11:15] <DanielFalck> bbl
[03:25:12] <anonimasu> fenn: it shouldnt be slow.
[03:25:18] <anonimasu> http://rrvtk.free.fr/vtk/perfs/
[03:51:35] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/tripod.ini: this halfile is gone
[03:52:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/tripod.ini: this halfile is gone
[04:13:33] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/common/emc.nml: this breaks 32 bit machines!
[04:28:18] <jepler> cradek: why did you take that out again? is there a new report that it broke something?
[04:28:32] <cradek> it broke my machine
[04:29:10] <jepler> I guess that by running 2.1 and 2.2 concurrently you'll be running into the "leaves shared memory segments" bug a lot
[04:29:14] <jepler> but that's the problem, not the nml file
[04:29:20] <cradek> oh
[04:29:36] <cradek> I forgot that was the problem
[04:29:37] <jepler> after ipcrm -M <some number> 2.2 will run just fine with that nml file
[04:29:50] <jepler> at any rate I believe that's what's going on
[04:30:04] <cradek> I was pissed while dealing with other breakage, I should have looked into it more first
[04:30:28] <jepler> sorry about that
[04:30:42] <cradek> nah, my fault
[04:30:44] <jepler> I'm watching a particularly bad episode of star trek: deep space 9 and it's got me on edge
[04:30:56] <cradek> wow I have a lot of shms around
[04:31:12] <jepler> the 3xx ones are emc, I think
[04:32:31] <skullworks> which particularly bad episode?
[04:33:15] <jepler> skullworks: odo gets an infant changeling, and kira finally gives birth
[04:33:21] <jepler> season 5
[04:33:28] <skullworks> * skullworks wonders where he put that DS9 complete box set.
[04:33:41] <jepler> 'night all
[04:33:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/common/emc.nml: oops
[04:33:47] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[04:33:47] <skullworks> night
[04:40:03] <maddash> "oops"?
[04:43:10] <ds3> any idea what may be wrong with the supplied lathe similation config? It complains about a signal already having an output pin. This is the checked out config and nothing obvious from inspecting lathe.hal
[04:43:13] <ds3> http://www.pastebin.ca/323246
[04:43:46] <skunkworks> ds3: they are working on that now.
[04:44:02] <ds3> oh. okie...thanks.
[04:50:54] <skunkworks> bull-dozin berry is back.
[04:51:10] <skunkworks> (our cat)
[04:52:40] <ds3> where was it?
[04:56:36] <skunkworks> out and about.. good mouser.
[04:56:50] <skunkworks> likes to head butt
[04:57:16] <ds3> i need a one of those for all rodents, not just mice
[04:57:28] <ds3> only problem is most cats cause an allegeric reaction :(
[04:58:20] <skunkworks> that sucks. (well if you like catsO
[04:58:22] <skunkworks> )
[05:01:50] <ds3> yes, I do like cats. they are useful
[05:02:26] <ds3> the best arrangement was a stray that visited/lived in the yard. but then neighbors got dogs :/ no more cats, just barefruit tree. die squirrels die
[05:04:06] <skunkworks> :) all of our cats are strays..
[05:04:15] <maddash> "our"?
[05:04:22] <skunkworks> me and my wife..
[05:05:36] <skunkworks> berry make it half way up one of our cherry trees when a dog came around
[05:07:00] <maddash> the disease-carrying capabilities of strays don't bother yoiu?
[05:08:15] <skunkworks> they where strays. now they are 'fixes' and up to date on thier shots.
[05:08:24] <skunkworks> fixed
[05:08:56] <maddash> bug reports everywhere. haha.
[05:09:49] <ds3> Mmmm bugs
[05:16:11] <maddash> uh oh
[05:16:40] <maddash> can anyone help? `diff \"Step NC-code\" \"G-code\"`
[05:21:14] <fenn> need a \ after Step
[05:21:22] <fenn> er..
[05:21:39] <fenn> `diff Step\ NC-code G-code`
[05:21:55] <fenn> maybe a -R too
[05:22:14] <fenn> -r
[05:22:42] <maddash> no no, I was being nerdy
[05:23:02] <maddash> what's the diff b/n step-nc code and g-code? I thought g-code was aka nc code...
[05:23:11] <fenn> oh, well
[05:23:19] <fenn> that would be a good subject for a book
[05:23:48] <fenn> the long and short of it is that g-code is a low level data format and step-nc is a high level data format
[05:28:11] <SWPLinux> G-code says "go this way, this fast"
[05:28:32] <SWPLinux> STEP says "make this shape, taking into account the machine capabilities and material properties"
[05:28:43] <SWPLinux> so they're a little different :)
[05:30:32] <maddash> interesting.
[05:33:21] <fenn> step-nc has an internal version of g-code too, i think
[05:33:36] <fenn> it has to generate the toolpath some time
[05:33:50] <K`zan> Night folks
[05:34:51] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (control.c mot_priv.h motion.c motion.h): fix lathe threading
[05:34:51] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: fix lathe threading
[05:34:49] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/lathe.hal: fix lathe threading
[05:43:16] <skullworks> time to get drunk and go play FEAR - nite all
[05:45:53] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/motion/ (control.c mot_priv.h motion.c motion.h): fix lathe threading
[05:45:54] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/kinematics/tp.c: fix lathe threading
[05:45:52] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/lathe.hal: fix lathe threading
[05:47:12] <ds3> sounds like a cvs update is needed for me
[05:48:09] <cradek> and bedtime is needed for me
[05:53:36] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[05:54:51] <cradek> goodnight guys
[07:56:19] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (freqgen.9 stepgen.9): add man pages for stepgen and freqgen
[07:59:07] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/ (freqgen.9 stepgen.9): backport: man pages for freqgen and stepgen
[09:03:31] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[10:24:21] <anonimasu> her lh
[10:24:45] <lerneaen_hydra> no no no, I'm most definetly male :p
[10:25:51] <anonimasu> 2hey..
[10:27:18] <lerneaen_hydra> huh wtf?
[10:27:41] <anonimasu> just a typo
[10:27:47] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[10:38:48] <fenn> anon here's the latest http://pastebin.ca/323410
[10:41:48] <lerneaen_hydra> how's the simulator coming?
[10:42:20] <fenn> meh
[10:42:30] <fenn> its slow
[10:42:38] <fenn> and it doesnt simulate anything yet
[10:43:21] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/matchstick.png
[10:43:38] <lerneaen_hydra> hey, it's something
[10:43:41] <lerneaen_hydra> how slow is slow?
[10:44:08] <fenn> not bad until you hit a certain threshold
[10:44:19] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[10:44:36] <lerneaen_hydra> and is that image above or below it?
[10:44:54] <lerneaen_hydra> that's only 20x20 or so, so that shouldn't be hard at all
[10:46:01] <fenn> yeah that's plenty fast
[10:46:29] <lerneaen_hydra> what about setting the matchstick size to 0.5x0.5 mm and having a part say 200mm x 200mm
[10:46:37] <lerneaen_hydra> so 400x400 elements
[10:46:58] <lerneaen_hydra> so 100 times as many elements
[10:47:05] <fenn> no way
[10:47:13] <fenn> well, it doesnt work, i mean
[10:47:14] <lerneaen_hydra> what's the bottleneck?
[10:47:17] <fenn> not sure
[10:47:20] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[10:47:40] <fenn> feel free to fix it :P
[10:47:48] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[10:49:07] <A-L-P-H-A> MONKEYS!@
[10:49:14] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[10:49:14] <A-L-P-H-A> hi folks.
[10:49:30] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A!
[10:49:36] <fenn> alpha's here, guess its time for me to go to bed
[10:49:47] <A-L-P-H-A> I just got in
[10:49:47] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[10:50:18] <A-L-P-H-A> some asshole wouldn't leave my friend's party... so I stuck with my friend to make sure the dick left.
[10:51:08] <A-L-P-H-A> called us assholes cause we didn't know who the fuck he was, and the party was over, so we got him to wake up, and asked to call him a cab.
[10:51:17] <A-L-P-H-A> guy spent 30 minutes trying to call friends to see if he could crash there.
[10:51:43] <A-L-P-H-A> no one wanted to pick up the phone for him... and eventually called this girl he knows is mother...
[10:51:50] <A-L-P-H-A> to go to the girl's house.
[10:51:59] <A-L-P-H-A> WTF... what a loser.
[11:11:47] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[11:12:39] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos, SWPadnos, SWPadnos, he's our man... if he can't... so many maybe can.
[11:20:56] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: hey
[11:21:12] <robin_sz> emc development, where the sun never sets!
[11:21:24] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, yeah?
[11:22:10] <anonimasu> brb.
[11:22:17] <anonimasu> sorry
[11:22:21] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[12:02:23] <alex_joni> morning all
[12:11:34] <lerneaen_hydra> lo
[12:11:34] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/UPDATING: put info on configs into TRUNK too
[12:12:59] <anonimasu> iab
[12:18:09] <alex_joni> wb
[12:18:19] <anonimasu> thank
[12:18:20] <anonimasu> s
[12:18:28] <anonimasu> im looking at how to get more performance with the vt
[12:18:28] <anonimasu> k
[12:18:29] <alex_joni> yw
[12:18:31] <alex_joni> :)
[12:21:28] <anonimasu> logger_emc: bookmark
[12:21:28] <anonimasu> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-21.txt
[12:31:12] <anonimasu> hmm
[12:33:24] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/Makefile: install UPDATING doc
[12:40:07] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, how bad is it now?
[12:44:55] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: very bad
[12:48:39] <lerneaen_hydra> is that becuase of non-hardware 3d drivers or something else?
[12:54:04] <matrix200> Hi all
[12:56:15] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: no, the practice we are using
[12:56:28] <lerneaen_hydra> you mean the entire matchstick model?
[12:56:43] <anonimasu> no
[12:56:44] <anonimasu> the rendering
[12:56:52] <anonimasu> you dont need a separate actor for each stick..
[12:57:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-6.06/emc2.files: include Integrator Manual in the menu, provide sane comments to the menu items
[12:58:25] <anonimasu> bbl
[12:58:31] <matrix200> Hi guys
[12:58:36] <matrix200> I am sorry to bother
[12:58:36] <matrix200> I am looking for alex
[12:58:38] <alex_joni> hi
[12:58:42] <matrix200> Hi alex
[12:58:44] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, oh, I see
[12:58:45] <alex_joni> <- alex
[12:58:50] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, are you using a zbuffer?
[12:58:50] <matrix200> :)
[13:48:32] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/extras-Ubuntu-5.10/emc2.files: include Integrator manual in the menu, provide sane comments for the menu items
[13:58:55] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/ (Master_Developer.lyx Master_Integrator.lyx): bump manual versions to v2.1
[14:14:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/install/installing_emc2.lyx: no more emc2-axis for 2.1.x+
[14:15:20] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/install/compiling_emc2.lyx: we refered to HEAD, but meant TRUNK
[14:17:13] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: Z buffer
[14:17:14] <anonimasu> ?
[14:17:19] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: that's not related..
[14:17:28] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: this is with vtk whatever method it uses.
[14:18:10] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[14:18:35] <lerneaen_hydra> well, with something like matchsticks not having a zbuffer will cuase really bad performance
[14:19:37] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: that's not the ussue..
[14:19:46] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, ok
[14:19:46] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: the issue is that we are creating 3000actors..
[14:19:51] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[14:19:58] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: vtk should be fast even with lots of polys..
[14:22:52] <alex_joni> darn, the manuals have really grown
[14:23:12] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: apparently VTK should be blazingly fast..
[14:23:31] <anonimasu> as it's a very thin wrapper
[14:26:07] <lerneaen_hydra> anonimasu, oh, so there's not much overhead in it
[14:26:08] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[14:26:12] <anonimasu> yeah
[14:26:23] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni, isn't that a good thing? ;)
[14:26:37] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: sure is.. but makes proofreading a pita
[14:26:41] <alex_joni> 3x200 pages or so
[14:26:42] <lerneaen_hydra> eek
[14:27:07] <lerneaen_hydra> btw, are there any places where you need images/graphics?
[14:27:40] <alex_joni> how do you mean that?
[14:28:04] <lerneaen_hydra> well, is there some place where you know you would like an image/graphic to clarify something
[14:28:12] <alex_joni> well..lots :)
[14:28:26] <lerneaen_hydra> is there a list somewhere?
[14:28:30] <lerneaen_hydra> or just in your head?
[14:28:33] <alex_joni> in the beginning of the user manual there are some ugly older images
[14:28:42] <alex_joni> first couple of pages
[14:28:54] <alex_joni> the developers manual is really lacking
[14:29:03] <alex_joni> especially some graphs about system overview
[14:29:16] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I'll take a look at that
[14:29:25] <alex_joni> but it's a problem to draw those if you're not familiar with the system
[14:29:33] <lerneaen_hydra> is cvs the simplest?
[14:29:34] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, I see
[14:29:43] <alex_joni> graphics: quite a few images/screenshots need updating
[14:29:51] <alex_joni> the config picker, halmeter, halscope, etc
[14:29:56] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, I see
[14:30:17] <alex_joni> the tutorials would need someone to run the through again, and check for changed commands/names
[14:30:32] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: plenty :P
[14:31:07] <lerneaen_hydra> haha :D
[14:31:11] <alex_joni> sometimes emc2 evolves so fast, it's not possible to keep the docs in sync
[14:31:33] <alex_joni> docs meaning: lyx, man-pages, wiki, etc
[14:31:42] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[14:32:24] <alex_joni> and writing docs is really an unrewarding job
[14:32:30] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[14:32:38] <lerneaen_hydra> why comment when you can code :D
[14:32:50] <alex_joni> with code you see that what you do is usefull
[14:32:59] <lerneaen_hydra> hence, the commentator: http://www.cenqua.com/commentator/
[14:33:01] <alex_joni> people use it, argue about it, improve it, whatever
[14:35:33] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_User.lyx: fix alignment of config/stepper.lyx
[14:36:17] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: page 11 User Manual
[14:36:26] <alex_joni> Figure 1.7: EMC2 Process Diagram
[14:36:31] <alex_joni> looks like sh*t
[14:38:00] <alex_joni> the file is called whatpc.png
[14:39:12] <alex_joni> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/emc2/docs/src/common/whatpc.png?rev=1.1;content-type=image%2Fpng
[14:47:37] <lerman> Not only does it look like sh*t; it doesn't say anything. What do the arrows mean? Let's see... the g-code is input to the GUI (note that Axis isn't listed). Well, not really. The g-code is input to the interpreter... but that isn't shown. The leadscrews output to the machine axis. No. That isn't right. They move the machine axis. The drawing doesn't mean anything. Or maybe it means everything.
[14:48:41] <lerman> A drawing doesn't mean anything unless the notation is well defined. In some case that is obvious (the meaning of the notation). In this cas it is NOT.
[14:49:26] <jtr_> It does say overly simplified - that part is right. ;)
[14:49:42] <lerman> Indeed.
[14:51:32] <lerman> I would show: g-code input to interpreter which feeds canon (motion control) which feeds HAL which feeds drivers which feeds hardware. I would show gui probably with a dotted line connected to (I don't know where that connects -- canon, hal?).
[14:52:15] <lerman> Also gui can feed interp (MDI case).
[14:54:43] <lerman> Do we have a standard for figures? I would suggest that figures be in some standard format (or be convertable to that format). Say: .PNG files with in 8 bit grayscale with a size of 8 x 10 and a resolution of 300x300 dots per inch. They should not have figure numbers or captions as part of the image.
[14:55:05] <lerneaen_hydra> um, IMO graphics should be a vector format
[14:55:11] <lerneaen_hydra> say svg
[14:55:18] <lerman> Anything more restrictive than that would make it harder to have multiple contributors.
[14:55:29] <lerneaen_hydra> easuer to edit later on and no rasterisation nastyness
[14:55:54] <lerman> LH: I can't disagree, but is there enough choice on tools to generate it?
[14:56:28] <lerneaen_hydra> there's plenty of OSS apps available that use it
[14:56:33] <lerneaen_hydra> and it's quite a common format
[14:56:44] <lerman> I recently used both Visio and Alibre to generate figs for a patent application.
[14:56:56] <lerneaen_hydra> maybe not in MS paint, but people that use MSpaint aren't doing to make graphics for things like this
[14:57:01] <lerman> I would NOT like to have to learn a new drawing package.
[14:57:16] <lerneaen_hydra> they probably can export to svg if they're vector based
[14:57:32] <lerman> True. I suggested a bitmap format because everything can convert to it.
[14:57:57] <lerneaen_hydra> how about something like vector format preferred, else png, 300dpi, etc
[15:01:00] <lerman> Visio gan generate dxf, dwg, igs, ps, eps, and a bunch of bitmap formats.
[15:01:39] <lerneaen_hydra> no svg O_o
[15:01:43] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, it's a microsoft app
[15:01:47] <lerman> Alibre can also generate a large variety (I pick those two because I'm familiar with them ).
[15:01:58] <jtr_> I would say a max size of 8x10, smaller is fine.
[15:02:07] <lerman> True no svg.
[15:02:11] <jtr_> ps is vector isn't it?
[15:02:11] <lerneaen_hydra> 8x10 isn't a size as such
[15:02:21] <lerneaen_hydra> pixels are size ;)
[15:02:42] <lerman> I suggested 8x10 because you can always scale down. But scaling up can look crappy for bitmap formats.
[15:03:03] <lerman> Yes ps is vector. Is there a ps to svg converter?
[15:03:02] <lerneaen_hydra> 8x10 what? inches? at what resolution?
[15:03:36] <lerman> I suggested 8x10 inches at 300 dpi (or should that be dots per linerar inch).
[15:03:55] <lerneaen_hydra> so 2400x3000 pixels
[15:03:56] <lerneaen_hydra> sounds about right
[15:03:58] <jtr_> lerneaen_hydra: notebook paper size
[15:04:31] <lerman> Multi-headed LH's use some very large notebooks. :-)
[15:04:40] <lerneaen_hydra> indeed they do
[15:04:48] <lerneaen_hydra> standard ones look very punitive
[15:05:03] <lerneaen_hydra> A2 paper sheets are my preferred size
[15:05:20] <lerman> Not 'B' size?
[15:05:30] <lerman> :-)
[15:05:39] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[15:08:36] <lerman> googled ps to svg. There appears to be a converter. Status isn't obvious.
[15:09:18] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO svg is a good format because it's open and XML based, so backwards compatability is not an issue
[15:09:42] <lerneaen_hydra> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svg#Example
[15:15:56] <jtr_> pdf2svg released: www.svg.org/story/2006/3/23/14251/5858 - looking now.
[15:15:56] <alex_joni> if you make all images 2400x3000 you'll have quite a bit of weight on the CVS checkout
[15:15:56] <lerman> What tools would you use to generate it? On Linux? On Windows? Free?
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO inkscape is good
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> openoffce draw can export to it
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> gimp can too
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> all OSS
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> and cross platform
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> inkscape is really nice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InkScape
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> (the missing svg bits are not very important for the type of things EMC needs)
[15:15:56] <jtr_> Never mind - the link I sent was not OSS
[15:15:56] <lerneaen_hydra> if you're running KDE then karbon-14 seems nice
[15:15:56] <lerman> Inkscape sounds good for 2D stuff. What about 3D stuff? (Or don't we need it?)
[15:15:56] <jtr_> In the win environment I use visio - for linux I'm still using paper and pencil.
[15:16:19] <lerman> I didn't know that linux supported paper and pencil :-)
[15:16:35] <lerneaen_hydra> why would we need 3d stuff?
[15:16:42] <lerneaen_hydra> and what would the type of modeling be then?
[15:16:48] <lerman> I've been using quill and parchment. :-)
[15:17:32] <jtr_> that does make it difficult. I'm open for suggestions for linux cad.
[15:17:42] <lerman> If you wanted to show a (2D projection of) milling machine with the coordinate system.
[15:17:42] <jtr_> s/for/to/
[15:17:56] <lerman> Or a hexkins.
[15:17:57] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[15:18:02] <lerneaen_hydra> blender?
[15:18:17] <lerneaen_hydra> or just draw it in psuedo-3d
[15:18:45] <alex_joni> 3D-XML :)
[15:18:51] <lerman> That's OK for an artist. But not for an engineer (like me).
[15:19:10] <lerman> (pseudo 3D, that is)
[15:20:22] <lerneaen_hydra> if it's just a projection to show the X/Y axis of a mill, why not?
[15:21:38] <lerman> Hard to change. Gee, I can't see that feature real well. Could you rotate it another 20 degrees? Sure (I'll just have to redraw it and change most of the lines).
[15:22:12] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah, that's true
[15:22:27] <lerneaen_hydra> you'll have to make up your mind first and decide exactly the layout
[15:22:41] <lerneaen_hydra> take a look at blender if you want an OSS solution
[15:23:30] <lerman> Even if it were just me, making up my mind would be hard. Satifying even 50% of us here would require multiple iterations.
[15:24:58] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[15:25:12] <lerneaen_hydra> how often though is a real 3d model needed
[15:25:19] <lerman> But I could cheat. Keep the original in Alibre. Export to postscript and convert (if it works) to SVG. Import to Inkscape. Pretend I had done it all in Inkscape. When you want a change, smile and say "Sure, nothing to it."
[15:25:51] <lerman> Ideally, though, "we" would own the source (the original).
[15:25:51] <alex_joni> lerman: send me the alibre file(s)
[15:25:59] <alex_joni> :-P
[15:26:33] <lerman> I don't have any (for this project) yet. It's all hypothetical.-- so far.
[15:27:00] <lerneaen_hydra> as long as the format isn't bastardised when converting (merge to one layer, kill gouping, etc) then I don't see why not
[15:27:15] <lerneaen_hydra> if it makes a semi-rasterized mess of it though, it would be hard to edit the file
[15:27:34] <alex_joni> lerman: I know..
[15:33:08] <lerman> On another topic... I was talking to skullworks (I think) yesterday about macro libraries. It seems like I could have the interpreter automatically import them. When it sees an Oword (say Onterpolatecircle) it doesn't know, it would look in some fixed directory for a file called 'interpolatecircle.ngc' and use it.
[15:33:17] <lerman> Comments (anyone)?
[15:33:30] <alex_joni> Onterpolatecircle?
[15:34:07] <lerman> Or whatever. O words will soon have names rather than just numbers.
[15:34:09] <lerneaen_hydra> I take it you mean Ointerpolatecircle
[15:34:20] <tomp_> presentation tools for linux, scalable, svg, pdf, ps, & free see scribus http://www.scribus.net/ and sample of emc doc http://imagebin.org/6976
[15:34:27] <alex_joni> or is this limited to macros starting with i ?
[15:34:30] <alex_joni> :D
[15:34:30] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO an underscore might be nice, say O_interpolatecircle
[15:35:08] <lerman> Well, the actual syntax would be O<interpolatecircle>.
[15:35:38] <lerneaen_hydra> you could call your files _interpolatecircle though, right?
[15:36:04] <lerman> tomp: nice.
[15:36:21] <lerman> We could call them whatever we specified.
[15:36:43] <lerneaen_hydra> ok, sounds good
[15:36:43] <lerman> That's the least of the problem.
[15:38:23] <lerman> issues: (1) how do we specify the directory to look in (2) is there more than one such directory (3) what does Axis do with this.
[15:38:24] <lerman> Axis (and other guis) would need to be able to see the current file name as well as the current line number. I don't know how difficult that would be.
[15:38:43] <lerman> I think it would be really easy to implement.
[15:39:06] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm
[15:39:30] <jtr_> there's already a mechanism for M codes, isn't there?
[15:40:04] <lerman> Yes. I don't know how that works. What directory does it look in?
[15:40:36] <jtr_> not sure or no clue
[15:42:04] <lerman> This is another 'no brainer' though. Anyone who doesn't like it doesn't have to use it. And it won't break any existing gcode.
[15:42:40] <jtr_> gotta run - checkout time is approaching and Cabin Fever beckons.
[15:43:37] <tomp_> re OinterpolateCircle, so my OinterploateCircle is used when in the source, else the library OinterpolateCircle is used when not in the source
[15:44:31] <tomp_> it can be overloaded
[15:44:41] <owhite> hey people. If I'm running tkemc, do you think there's another application that I could run at the same time, for display the tool path of my machine?
[15:44:45] <lerman> Exactly. If it hasn't already seen it, the interpreter goes and finds it.
[15:45:05] <owhite> er, "display OF the..."
[15:45:12] <owhite> hello rayh.
[15:45:53] <tomp_> owhite: besides backplot? in addition to backplot?
[15:46:34] <owhite> tomp_: pardon my ignorance -- does backplot display the position realtime?
[15:47:41] <tomp_> owhite: you found mine ( ignorance): i dont recall if it's a dro, but it does "display the tool path"
[15:48:03] <rayh> owhite: What do you mean by realtime?
[15:48:42] <owhite> I was hoping to find an application that will do two things a) show the overall part that will be cut, and b) show the position of the cutting tool while the machine is performing the run.
[15:49:21] <rayh> ah. backplot shows the "position of the cutting tool while the machine is performing the run."
[15:49:57] <owhite> okay. so if I typically do the run in tkemc, can I also run backplot at the same time? do they communicate with each other?
[15:50:11] <rayh> Yes they do
[15:50:13] <owhite> * owhite knows he's heading dangerously close to "rtfm" land. :-).
[15:50:34] <rayh> backplot is under the view menu.
[15:51:24] <rayh> The only issue I know of with backplot is running your program so many times without clearing the backplot canvas that you run out of memory.
[15:51:49] <rayh> I heard of a Sherline user that did that.
[15:52:24] <owhite> rayh: okay. welll I'll look at it. Apparently I've broken my tkemc script when I use that menu item :-)
[15:52:50] <owhite> rayh: while I have you here though, I have another question with the USC board.
[15:52:57] <tomp_> bbl
[15:53:18] <rayh> okay
[15:53:38] <owhite> so you've recently added code to support the additional IO. but one of the things I realized is that I really would like to control some items when the machine is in e-stop.
[15:54:20] <owhite> so for example. I was hoping to control my laser's power supply, to turn off the overall laser system (not to fire the beam).
[15:54:41] <owhite> but unless the overall laser is powered up, it will be in e-stop.
[15:54:44] <rayh> with things like lube, coolant, and such you may run up against EMC's hard coded logic.
[15:55:00] <owhite> yeah. that's the problem.
[15:55:16] <rayh> You could turn on an individual pin with something like halvcp -- pyvcp
[15:55:28] <owhite> really?
[15:55:44] <owhite> that would be great, could I do that in tkemc if I hacked it a little?
[15:55:44] <rayh> You could also "or" that signal with the one from EMC
[15:56:12] <rayh> I've not tried to get access to HAL stuff from tkemc but it should be possible.
[15:56:37] <rayh> If you know a bit of tickle you could look at halshow and find the relevant code to toggle a pin.
[15:56:51] <rayh> basicly we use halcmd
[15:57:21] <owhite> so I'm googling emc2 and halvcp and not finding much.
[15:57:32] <rayh> and send a "sets" command to the signal you create for the control
[15:57:53] <rayh> You won't. Most of the documentation is in the EMC documents.
[15:58:19] <rayh> What version of emc2 are you running?
[15:58:22] <owhite> head.
[15:58:31] <rayh> good man
[15:58:51] <owhite> * owhite wouldnt set foot in the forum unless he was running emc2-head. :-)
[15:58:52] <rayh> The head docs are available at linuxcnc.org
[15:59:07] <rayh> I know the feeling.
[15:59:22] <rayh> 2.1 will really close that gap.
[15:59:28] <owhite> okay. I'm happy to look into it. poke around for halvcp, and use that to drive the pins?
[15:59:47] <tomp_> owhite: to look at halcmd, you look at the src. docs at that level >are< the src, not any handbook
[15:59:53] <rayh> You can test your commands using halshow
[16:00:09] <owhite> okay.
[16:00:20] <rayh> What are you using for IO
[16:00:27] <alex_joni> owhite: it's called trunk
[16:00:28] <alex_joni> not HEAD
[16:00:36] <owhite> hoo boy.
[16:00:50] <rayh> Thanks. Hi alex_joni
[16:00:57] <alex_joni> HEAD is the latest version
[16:01:03] <alex_joni> but that works for a branch too
[16:01:08] <alex_joni> TRUNK is the main branch
[16:01:25] <alex_joni> and of course it has a HEAD.. but so do v2_0_branch and v2_1_branch
[16:01:32] <owhite> rayh: what do you mean? I am using the USC, and then wiring to the new port (I forget its name) and then the pins on the USC will drive a relay board.
[16:01:34] <alex_joni> so using only HEAD is confusing
[16:01:45] <owhite> * owhite is using TRUNK.
[16:01:57] <owhite> trunk trunk trunk.
[16:02:12] <tomp_> tomp makes elephant noises
[16:02:13] <rayh> Um. I know very little about that addition to USC
[16:03:23] <owhite> oh cripes.
[16:03:32] <tomp_> owhite: what hardware do you wire to on the computer side? parport, stg, some card?
[16:03:33] <rayh> but you can create "newsig manuallaserpower bit"
[16:03:33] <owhite> * owhite confused rayh with jon elson.
[16:03:48] <owhite> duh. my mistake. different board member.
[16:03:52] <tomp_> doh: usc
[16:04:05] <rayh> no problems. I know Jon well and have a USC card.
[16:04:46] <owhite> ah. well he added the capability to use P8.
[16:05:39] <rayh> next you should "linksp manuallaserpower usc.xxx.yyy" where you supply a good name for the pin you want to use to turn on power to the laser.
[16:05:40] <owhite> I still wonder if since the board's IO is tied to e-stop if I will be able to do this, but I'll poke around.
[16:05:58] <rayh> Ah. You may well be right.
[16:06:19] <rayh> His estop does shut down the ability to pull his output pins.
[16:06:33] <rayh> You might have to add a second parport or a DIO card.
[16:06:57] <owhite> I figured. do you guys know of a way to drive 8 or so bits out of the USB or serial?
[16:07:27] <owhite> actually, parport cards are pretty freaking cheap.
[16:07:40] <rayh> Yes they are.
[16:08:02] <owhite> are there any problems with tkemc, or emc2, for driving two parellel ports at the same time?
[16:08:20] <rayh> No. I've done it here quite often.
[16:08:48] <rayh> You just have to edit the relevant .hal file for the extra port.
[16:09:17] <owhite> so cool. any documentation or examples anywhere?
[16:09:46] <owhite> * owhite awaits the dreaded "are you kidding?"
[16:09:55] <rayh> * rayh goes to look at the usc config
[16:10:26] <owhite> alex_joni: nows your chance to express the usual "wtfm".
[16:13:01] <rayh> it seems to me that univstep_load.hal would be the place to add the pci parport.
[16:13:54] <owhite> okay I'll do some research.
[16:14:49] <tomp_> i didnt find 'use 2 parports' but did find 'use 1 parport for somethng besides xyz stepper' http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Torch_Height_Control
[16:15:59] <alex_joni> owhite: loadrt hal_parport cfg="0x378 0xfb00"
[16:16:01] <owhite> thanks.
[16:16:05] <alex_joni> that will load 2 parport drivers
[16:16:49] <owhite> alex_joni: which hal file would that go into?
[16:17:02] <owhite> er, typically.
[16:17:20] <rayh> remember that one parport is already taken up with usc
[16:17:34] <tomp_> the torch height example does load 2 parports http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/dallur-advanced.hal
[16:18:21] <owhite> yeah hopefully something funny wont happen to the USC if I run two parports.
[16:19:44] <rayh> Are you running the usc from the mobo parport?
[16:19:54] <owhite> mobo?
[16:20:07] <rayh> motherboard's onboard.
[16:20:42] <owhite> ah. yes. the motherboard.
[16:22:38] <rayh> I'm just a bit confused about how hal_ppmc knows the parport address.
[16:23:13] <rayh> I presume that it is just polling until if finds the card.
[16:25:23] <owhite> is there a default? some of the config directories dont seem to specify it.
[16:25:54] <rayh> I added a pci parallel port card here and found it's address at 0xc000.
[16:26:58] <rayh> so the command to start a hal for it is "loadrt hal_parport cfg=0xc000"
[16:27:11] <owhite> got it.
[16:27:49] <rayh> phone brb
[16:28:31] <owhite> * owhite goes back to doing laser stuff.
[16:28:45] <lerneaen_hydra> sharks! and lasers!
[16:29:24] <owhite> * owhite just built a new ventilation hood, and mounted a little rubber shark to it. :-)
[16:31:37] <owhite> if I cant have a sharked with a mounted laser, at least I can have a laser with a mounted shark.
[16:36:30] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah :D
[16:57:45] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/configure: by changing to the directory of the script, running 'debian/configure sim' from the top level works
[16:58:23] <jepler> has anyone tested classicladder in these new 2.1~alpha0 packages?
[16:59:08] <alex_joni> not yet
[16:59:12] <alex_joni> alpha1 now..
[16:59:21] <jepler> my mistake
[17:00:19] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/hal_ax5214h.c: trivial grammar fix in comment
[17:00:54] <alex_joni> jepler: np
[17:01:32] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (Makefile Makefile.inc.in): correct version of the driver for the futurlec 8255 card
[17:01:33] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/ (pci_8255.c hal_8255.c): correct version of the driver for the futurlec 8255 card
[17:03:28] <tomp_> !
[17:07:10] <awallin> (join #emc-devel
[17:07:16] <awallin> :)
[17:10:41] <jepler> ooh the freqgen/stepgen manual pages
[17:13:14] <lerneaen_hydra> inkscape is really nice
[17:14:48] <owhite> looks interesting
[17:15:15] <jepler> alex_joni: did you commit the changelog for ~alpha1? I still have ~alpha0 in my debian/changelog
[17:23:49] <alex_joni> let me see
[17:24:10] <owhite> I made me a dragon. nilno.com/head1.jpg
[17:24:11] <alex_joni> guess not
[17:25:57] <ejholmgren> nice
[17:36:27] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:27] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:28] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_sim_cl/demo_sim_cl.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:28] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:31] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/etch-servo/etch.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:32] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/halui.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:34] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:36] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/lathe-pluto.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:36] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/minitetra.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:38] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:40] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:42] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/nist-lathe/inch.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:44] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:48] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (8 files): cleanup for release
[17:36:50] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (sim_inch.ini stepper_inch.ini stepper_mm.ini): cleanup for release
[17:36:53] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:57] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: cleanup for release
[17:36:59] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep.ini: cleanup for release
[17:37:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: cleanup for release
[17:37:38] <Skullworks> just for giggles - Whats a lathe-pluto?
[17:38:51] <cradek> pluto is an FPGA interface that generates PWM and counts encoders
[17:38:52] <ejholmgren> hal driver for a pluto-p running a lathe?
[17:39:13] <cradek> yes
[17:39:21] <jepler> more about the pluto servo driver: http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/hal/pluto_servo.html
[17:39:25] <cradek> bbl
[17:39:32] <Skullworks> cool
[17:39:34] <Skullworks> homework
[17:49:35] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra pokes A-L-P-H-A
[17:49:52] <A-L-P-H-A> .(
[17:51:40] <lerneaen_hydra> ey wth
[17:51:45] <lerneaen_hydra> is PM'ing broken?
[17:53:37] <jmkasunich> are you "identified"?
[17:53:51] <jmkasunich> you know: /msg nickserv identify <password>
[17:53:59] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[17:54:18] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A, are you ident-ed?
[18:02:23] <A-L-P-H-A> yes
[18:08:52] <robin_sz> pluto looks useful
[18:09:18] <Skullworks> yez - JTAG
[18:09:24] <robin_sz> same fpga on a pci card, bit of buffering ...
[18:10:11] <jmkasunich> robin_sz: I like the mesa better - much bigger FPGA on a PCI card
[18:10:14] <jmkasunich> still no buffering tho
[18:10:26] <robin_sz> hmm
[18:10:38] <robin_sz> is there a mesa driver yet?
[18:10:45] <robin_sz> I was unaware of pluto
[18:10:50] <jmkasunich> there is a driver for the standard 4 channel mesa config
[18:10:58] <robin_sz> ah yes,
[18:10:59] <jmkasunich> and for the pluto servo
[18:11:01] <robin_sz> i remember
[18:11:09] <robin_sz> the mesa card is big $$$ though right
[18:11:14] <jmkasunich> $199
[18:11:17] <robin_sz> pluto is $trivial
[18:11:18] <jmkasunich> less in quantity
[18:11:45] <jmkasunich> a group of us have purchased mesa's and once version 2.1 is out we're gonna be working on additional configs and drivers for it
[18:11:55] <robin_sz> but you need the buffer cards and expansions etc for the mesa to make it useful though
[18:12:13] <robin_sz> which crought it to nearer $400 when I checked last
[18:12:13] <jmkasunich> depending on what you want to do, yes
[18:12:26] <alex_joni> robin_sz: I think 300$ is more like it
[18:12:35] <alex_joni> depends how "cheap" you are though
[18:12:39] <robin_sz> for $60 ... id bess about with optos etc :)
[18:12:45] <robin_sz> * robin_sz is cheap
[18:12:47] <alex_joni> I mean what you want to built yourself
[18:13:16] <jmkasunich> robin: and what you want to fit in the FPGA
[18:13:28] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure how many gates are in the pluto FPGA
[18:13:39] <jmkasunich> 10K, 20K, something like that
[18:13:41] <jmkasunich> the mesa is 200K
[18:13:49] <robin_sz> not caring ... if it can do 3 channles of servo thats enough
[18:13:56] <robin_sz> plus soem digitial IO
[18:14:11] <jmkasunich> the pluto is probably for you
[18:14:41] <robin_sz> I presume on the Mesa you could put the servo loop in the fpga too
[18:15:00] <tomp_> alex_joni: when i did "dpkg-scanpackages binary /dev/null | gzip -9c > binary/Packages?.gz", i got a file named 'Packages?.gz' :)
[18:15:21] <alex_joni> did I write that?
[18:15:39] <alex_joni> oh.. pesky wiki :)
[18:15:41] <tomp_> (yes) should i strike the '?'
[18:16:05] <alex_joni> yeah
[18:16:10] <alex_joni> the wiki software adds that automatically
[18:16:16] <alex_joni> I fixed it.. thanks
[18:16:40] <tomp_> thank you for making it simple
[18:18:32] <alex_joni> here's an idea..
[18:18:50] <alex_joni> one could use CD's or DVD's with lightscribe support as cheap encoders
[18:19:13] <alex_joni> they have very fine markings on the inside (probably for syncing the image burned on it)
[18:19:16] <Skullworks> that might make a great spindle tach
[18:19:36] <robin_sz> thos US robotics encoders are only $19.95
[18:19:57] <tomp_> maybe ' sudo apt-get update && upgrade' should be ' sudo apt-get update; apt-get upgrade' , & i like the encoder writing idea, even grey encoders, and THRU HOLE too!
[18:20:05] <Skullworks> $19.95 in quantity - and no Index channel
[18:20:16] <alex_joni> tomp_: yes, I assumed people who will be trying this know that
[18:20:31] <tomp_> cough cough
[18:21:12] <alex_joni> tomp_: don't want to make it too easy, so as not to encourage less advanced users to use it
[18:21:58] <alex_joni> I just did a label for emc2 disks using lightscribe
[18:22:06] <alex_joni> pictures coming in a few minutes
[18:23:21] <owhite> I made some encoders for someone out of sheet metal.
[18:23:38] <alex_joni> owhite: easier with a laser
[18:23:53] <owhite> well if people want something simple I could zip some up.
[18:24:09] <owhite> it probably had like 128 bit resolution.
[18:24:24] <alex_joni> 128 cpr you mean
[18:24:53] <jepler> the chip on the pluto is about 1/20 the size of the one on the mesa (10k vs 200k gates)
[18:27:19] <owhite> are you guys talking about the boards at knlm.com?
[18:27:57] <owhite> er, knjn.com
[18:32:45] <alex_joni> http://dsplabs.cs.utt.ro/~juve/dropbox/lightscribe/
[18:33:22] <jmkasunich> heh, nice
[18:33:35] <lerneaen_hydra> alex_joni, did you do that running *nix?
[18:33:39] <lerneaen_hydra> or windows
[18:33:41] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: unfortunately no
[18:33:44] <alex_joni> doze
[18:33:48] <lerneaen_hydra> ack
[18:33:55] <lerneaen_hydra> that's what I was afraid of
[18:34:03] <alex_joni> the linux lightscribe package is somehow crippled as far as I'm understanding it
[18:34:11] <alex_joni> there is something, but not fully OSS
[18:34:16] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[18:34:22] <acemi> acemi is now known as acemi_
[18:34:29] <acemi_> acemi_ is now known as acemi
[18:34:34] <alex_joni> and on doze I had to install an aditional thingie to increase contrast at the expense of time
[18:34:43] <lerneaen_hydra> ah, ok
[18:34:55] <alex_joni> that one took about 25 minutes
[18:34:57] <jmkasunich> wait, are those burned into the CD by the laser?
[18:35:00] <alex_joni> which is just wrong imo
[18:35:02] <Skullworks> Alex - those look sharp!
[18:35:02] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: yes
[18:35:04] <jmkasunich> slick
[18:35:11] <lerneaen_hydra> jmkasunich, yeah, with the laser
[18:35:12] <jmkasunich> and it doesn't affect the data at all?
[18:35:14] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: burn a full DVD in 5min
[18:35:20] <alex_joni> flip it over, burn the label in 25
[18:35:27] <lerneaen_hydra> my drive has a competing tech, it's based on blue colors though
[18:35:31] <alex_joni> feels.. stupid
[18:35:35] <lerneaen_hydra> labelflash
[18:35:44] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: lightscribe has 8 colours available
[18:35:58] <tomp_> alex_joni: looks very nice. are the central marks your's? ( what looks like encoder markings already )
[18:36:09] <alex_joni> no, those are on the blank
[18:36:14] <lerneaen_hydra> when I did labelflash I got good contrast at around 10 minutes burn time
[18:36:17] <alex_joni> so the software can sync the writing (my guess)
[18:36:24] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: depends on the coverage
[18:36:46] <alex_joni> I had a full picture (on the whole disc) and it took 30 minutes for crappy contrast
[18:37:00] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, with mine full image took 15 or so
[18:37:02] <lerneaen_hydra> was OK
[18:37:03] <jmkasunich> oh, I see - special disks and drives
[18:37:08] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich loses interest
[18:37:09] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[18:37:17] <lerneaen_hydra> expen$$ive
[18:37:18] <alex_joni> jmkasunich: for now..
[18:37:25] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: not that expensive
[18:37:32] <alex_joni> 5-10$ more for the drive
[18:37:38] <owhite> hey, it occurs to me, I have something that could burn CDs. :-)
[18:37:39] <lerneaen_hydra> here in sweden they're 4x the cost of standard disks
[18:37:40] <alex_joni> blanks are 20%
[18:37:41] <lerneaen_hydra> the drive is about as expensive here
[18:37:42] <Skullworks> yeah the media does command premium prices
[18:38:11] <alex_joni> 20%-50% more pricey (but I hope it'll drop)
[18:38:18] <lerneaen_hydra> a cool solution would be milling into the disc for DVDs
[18:38:26] <alex_joni> not really cool
[18:38:28] <lerneaen_hydra> as the data layer is in the middle of the disk
[18:38:38] <alex_joni> it'll ruin your drive if you don't mill symetrically
[18:38:48] <jmkasunich> heh, balance
[18:38:52] <tomp_> wobble wobble
[18:39:03] <Skullworks> thats critical
[18:39:05] <lerneaen_hydra> hmm, I'm not too sure, i've seen several disks that are offcentered by nearly a mm or so
[18:39:09] <alex_joni> on DVD's even a sticker/label glued off-center can make the disk unusable
[18:39:15] <lerneaen_hydra> O_o
[18:39:43] <alex_joni> lerneaen_hydra: not in all drives..
[18:39:45] <lerneaen_hydra> okay, use CAD that does autobalancing ;)
[18:39:51] <alex_joni> lol
[18:40:13] <alex_joni> or get it to a tire checking service afterwards
[18:40:20] <alex_joni> to glue little lead thingies to it
[18:40:22] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah >.<
[18:40:40] <Skullworks> M$ got sued over a batch of W95 CD that had heavy silkscreening on half the disc - and on slow PC's the drive was in use - out of balance long enough to cause drive failures during an install.
[18:41:19] <lerneaen_hydra> heh
[18:41:20] <alex_joni> heh.. and that was at low RPM
[18:41:27] <alex_joni> nowadays it's quite high :)
[18:41:37] <Skullworks> yep
[18:41:49] <alex_joni> 18x on DVD's
[18:41:54] <lerneaen_hydra> 18?
[18:42:02] <alex_joni> that's what my drive does
[18:42:02] <lerneaen_hydra> funny, not a 2^n speed
[18:42:13] <lerneaen_hydra> then again, neither is 12x
[18:42:20] <alex_joni> no, it's 16x with C<mumble>
[18:42:27] <alex_joni> constant something
[18:42:32] <alex_joni> velocity
[18:42:37] <alex_joni> CAV? CLAV?
[18:42:40] <lerneaen_hydra> linear or angular ;)
[18:42:48] <lerneaen_hydra> probably some psuedo mix
[18:42:50] <alex_joni> yeah.. something like that
[18:43:07] <alex_joni> CAV on 18x, ZCLV on 16x
[18:43:21] <lerneaen_hydra> does CLV up to 16x, gets the last data with a CAV stragegy and gets slightly higher speeds there on the outermost data
[18:43:45] <Skullworks> I think they also use multi track reads - like a download accellerator to increase transfer rate
[18:43:55] <lerneaen_hydra> multiple lasers?
[18:44:06] <lerneaen_hydra> or same laser but different tracks?
[18:44:09] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: bump to alpha1
[18:44:10] <alex_joni> fuzzy lasers :D
[18:44:14] <Skullworks> single laser - dual pickups
[18:44:32] <owhite> gonna run.
[18:44:39] <tomp_> bbl
[18:45:42] <Skullworks> I used to work for GTW - but got outsourced along with almost all of the U.S. staff
[18:46:14] <Skullworks> dealt with warranty related failures...
[18:47:18] <robin_sz> pretty busy then huh?
[18:47:24] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: having a writable, personal nc_files directory helps a beginning user.
[18:47:55] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/configure: print distrib name
[18:48:35] <Skullworks> kinda - shipping product before documentation was out - shipping without drivers...
[18:49:27] <Skullworks> Window ME (Microsoft Experimental) was a total fiasco.
[18:49:54] <alex_joni> maybe vista will be the same
[18:50:06] <lerneaen_hydra> what, MS changed their strategy from "it compiles, ship it" to "it should compile, ship it"?
[18:50:07] <Skullworks> was nice to go home and have a nice stable network I could use
[18:50:31] <Skullworks> Vista will be terrible for hardware!
[18:50:42] <Skullworks> no more unified drivers
[18:50:49] <lerneaen_hydra> IMO vista has so much DRM crap in it that even normal people will get pissed
[18:50:59] <Skullworks> yep
[18:51:17] <Skullworks> and blueray has allready been cracked in xp
[18:51:34] <Skullworks> there are vids of it on Youtube
[18:51:37] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[18:51:45] <lerneaen_hydra> all drm can be cracked given time
[18:52:25] <Skullworks> problem is M$ is now dictating hardware specs... not the other way around
[18:52:56] <lerneaen_hydra> brb
[18:53:11] <Skullworks> so even when you don't use M$ your stuck in there shadow.
[18:53:36] <awalli1> awalli1 is now known as awallin-VM
[18:54:48] <lerneaen_hydra> iab
[18:58:17] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: add pyvcp documentation to 2.1 branch
[19:00:55] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/Master_Integrator.lyx: include vcp documentation in the 2.1 integrator handbook
[19:03:49] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/vcp.lyx: clarify pyVCP/VCP status
[19:05:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/stepper/README: update with sim_inch.ini config
[19:07:42] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c: don't pop this message up like it was an error
[19:10:08] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/Submakefile: add vcp html documentation
[19:10:40] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/arrays.c: don't pop this message up like it was an error
[19:15:17] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/README: change wording a bit
[19:24:25] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: G50 is now M52 P1 / M52 P0
[19:31:47] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: G50 is now M52 P1 / M52 P0
[19:32:27] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/ (16 files): merge from HEAD: images for pyvcp documentation
[19:35:12] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/README: mention pyvcp
[19:41:12] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/html/gcode.html: document new codes m50..m53; remove documentation of m48/m49 since m50/m51 do the same job better
[19:51:53] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/Makefile: fix genhexkins by including _posemath and sincos
[19:53:47] <anonimasu> hello
[19:53:53] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: read program dir from ini
[19:54:37] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: fix genhexkins by including _posemath and sincos
[19:55:01] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/tcl/mini.tcl: read program dir from ini
[19:57:15] <alex_joni> hi Jon
[19:57:20] <elson> Hello, all
[19:57:27] <jmkasunich> hey jon!
[19:57:33] <jmkasunich> long time no see
[19:57:34] <cradek> hi
[20:01:26] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/html/gcode.html: merge revision 1.2 info about FO (feed override), SO (spindle override), AF (adaptive feed) and FH (feedhold)
[20:01:29] <anonimasu> :)
[20:01:39] <anonimasu> adptive feed hold
[20:01:40] <anonimasu> ?
[20:01:51] <alex_joni> adaptive feed control
[20:01:59] <alex_joni> 0..1 as a hal float pin
[20:02:06] <alex_joni> adapts to something like EDM voltage
[20:02:07] <awallin-VM> elson: I'm building a powersupply, but I'll be testing your drives real soon...
[20:02:39] <anonimasu> ah..
[20:02:42] <anonimasu> yeah I know..
[20:02:45] <anonimasu> awallin-VM: nice!
[20:03:04] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/AUTHORS: add awallin
[20:03:42] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/AUTHORS: add awallin
[20:04:30] <awallin-VM> alex_joni: that's very kind of you ;)
[20:04:43] <anonimasu> awallin-VM: did you see the test fenn did of the matchstick stuff?
[20:04:52] <alex_joni> awallin-VM: if I saw you didn't do it yourself :P
[20:04:52] <anonimasu> awallin-VM: not nearly fast enough with vtk
[20:06:40] <anonimasu> awallin-VM: but that's probably becasue we suck at using it..
[20:07:19] <Skullworks> elson: Would one of your amps be usable as a DC spindle drive 107VDC @ 16A peak to use a treadmill motor.
[20:08:24] <awallin-VM> anonimasu: no I didn't see fenn's stuff, is it online somewhere?
[20:08:32] <anonimasu> pastebin somewhere..
[20:08:39] <anonimasu> with 100x100 cubes it kills the computer..
[20:08:47] <awallin-VM> 'raw' OpenGL might be faster than vtk?
[20:09:34] <alex_joni> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/matchstick.pn
[20:09:48] <alex_joni> http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/matchstick.png
[20:09:52] <lerneaen_hydra> how are the matchsticks rendered? 6-sided cuboids?
[20:09:56] <anonimasu> yeah..
[20:10:28] <anonimasu> unless vtk dosent render non visible polys..
[20:11:03] <anonimasu> awallin-VM: still it shouldnt be that damn slow :)
[20:11:22] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/ (README core_sim_6.hal): loadrt genhexkins needed now
[20:17:11] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/vcp/vcp_main.c: add a 'use pyvcp instead' notice to halvcp
[20:18:42] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/vcp/vcp_main.c: backport: add a 'use pyvcp instead' notice to halvcp
[20:25:55] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (lathe.xml lathe_postgui.hal lathe.ini): this finishes the backport of pyvcp (I hope)
[20:25:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: this finishes the backport of pyvcp (I hope)
[20:25:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/Makefile: this finishes the backport of pyvcp (I hope)
[20:25:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/halmodule.cc: this finishes the backport of pyvcp (I hope)
[20:25:59] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/user_comps/Submakefile: this finishes the backport of pyvcp (I hope)
[20:32:14] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/pwmgen.9: add manpage for pwmgen
[20:34:08] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/pwmgen.9: backport: man page for pwmgen
[20:37:28] <CIA-8> 03awallin 07TRUNK * 10emc2/lib/python/pyvcp_widgets.py:
[20:37:28] <CIA-8> - add dial widget by tomp. I renamed a lot of the variables to make
[20:37:28] <CIA-8> the code more readable. I'm not sure the key-bindings will be intuitive
[20:37:28] <CIA-8> for first time users...
[20:37:28] <CIA-8> - add timed update for jogwheel (fixes problem where signal connected to
[20:37:29] <CIA-8> pin was not updated before an event ocurred)
[20:37:29] <CIA-8> XML for dial is now:
[20:39:08] <awallin-VM> tomp_: SWPadnos: if you want to add to pyvcp, please do a cvs update to get the latest pyvcp_widgets !
[20:44:21] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: package newly added files
[21:12:42] <ds3> morning
[21:13:42] <alex_joni> 23:12 < ds3> morning
[21:13:44] <alex_joni> not quite
[21:13:49] <alex_joni> er.. not yet
[21:17:47] <ds3> you on the other hemisphere?
[21:18:20] <alex_joni> GMT+2
[21:18:41] <ds3> is that around germany/denmark?
[21:19:09] <alex_joni> a bit more east
[21:19:11] <alex_joni> Romania
[21:19:23] <ds3> ah
[21:20:08] <eholmgren> it's like "dark and stuff" here
[21:20:33] <ds3> where are you, eholmgren?
[21:20:36] <eholmgren> that may be due to the clouds that are dumping snow on us though
[21:20:41] <eholmgren> MN, USA
[21:20:48] <ds3> ah
[21:21:19] <eholmgren> just putting in overtime hours at work on the weekend
[21:21:37] <eholmgren> empty parking lot was fun for about 15 mins before I actually came in ;)
[21:21:39] <ds3> I see.
[21:21:48] <ds3> donuts?
[21:21:52] <eholmgren> yeppers
[21:22:00] <eholmgren> in a large minivan no less
[21:22:12] <ds3> doesn't ABS/Traction control prevent that?
[21:23:12] <eholmgren> it's electronic 4-wheel drive
[21:23:17] <eholmgren> normally rearwheel only
[21:23:25] <eholmgren> unless it detects them spinning
[21:23:36] <ds3> but being more on topic, any idea what I am missing with the lathe simulation - it dies on the import vcpparse?
[21:23:48] <ds3> oh those.... the subarus are like that
[21:24:00] <cradek> ds3: trunk or 2.1 branch?
[21:24:29] <cradek> packaged, installed, or run in place?
[21:24:42] <ds3> one sec... this is run in place sim only
[21:24:48] <ds3> trying to cvs stat something
[21:24:56] <Skullworks> dumping snow in colorado currently too
[21:25:05] <ds3> trunk
[21:25:18] <ds3> (cvs status works better on files that are checked in ;))
[21:25:20] <cradek> hmm, that's been working, let me try
[21:25:36] <ds3> I just did a cvs up last night, should I do another one?
[21:26:22] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/README: instruct how to specify genhexkins
[21:26:56] <cradek> ds3: works for me. be sure you cvs update -dP in the toplevel directory (NOT src)
[21:27:13] <ds3> what's -dP? delete old files?
[21:27:23] <ds3> I did it on top at the check out point
[21:27:22] <jepler> cvs -H update says what -d and -P are
[21:29:43] <ds3> same thing
[21:31:28] <ds3> there is another one - import xml.dom.ext
[21:31:32] <ds3> is that third party?
[21:32:17] <alex_joni> -d is create new dirs, P prune empty dirs
[21:32:19] <alex_joni> iirc
[21:32:22] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/tcl/bin/pickconfig.tcl: having a writable, personal nc_files directory helps a beginning user.
[21:36:31] <jepler> ds3: on ubuntu, installing the package python2.4-xml should make 'import xml.dom.ext' work
[21:38:20] <ds3> jepler: doing a fresh compile of everything. had to download and install PyXML. but that solve it.
[21:40:56] <ds3> heh... HAAS lathe programs are definitely not happy hehe
[21:43:20] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/control.in: pyvcp uses xml.dom.ext, provided by python2.4-xml
[21:44:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/.cvsignore: some new ignores
[21:44:18] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/bin/.cvsignore: some new ignores
[21:44:19] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/.cvsignore: some new ignores
[21:44:20] <CIA-8> 03cradek 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/src/hal/.cvsignore: some new ignores
[21:48:23] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/configs/sim/.cvsignore: ignore scope cfg file
[21:50:51] <ds3> is the feed in lathe mode still IPM?
[21:51:11] <cradek> feed is in whatever units you like, depending on whether you program G20 or G21
[21:51:33] <jepler> inches or mm
[21:51:40] <cradek> right, sorry
[21:51:41] <ds3> not metric vs english; IPM or IPR
[21:51:55] <cradek> oh, yes
[21:52:03] <ds3> most lathecontrols default to IPR unless commanded otherwise
[21:52:15] <cradek> I understand the question now
[21:52:23] <ds3> that explains why the similation is taking forever ;)
[21:52:34] <cradek> feeds are per time (so far) in emc
[21:52:41] <ds3> gotcha
[21:53:45] <ds3> the spindle speed thingie on the sim is a nice touch!
[21:55:28] <alex_joni> ds3: it's part of a thing called pyvcp (python virtual control panel)
[21:55:44] <alex_joni> users can extend that with all kinds of nice things (buttons/dials/leds etc)
[21:57:07] <ds3> alex_joni: it looks cool
[21:57:34] <ds3> is it correct that I need to do a G43 Hxx in the current lathe implementation to pickup the Z offset?
[21:58:45] <cradek> yes AND you must also be in G18 (XZ) plane
[21:59:38] <cradek> um, I think
[21:59:53] <cradek> to use shape compensation you do, not sure about tool offsets
[22:00:47] <ds3> tool offset is a bit more important for it to be useful; shape compensation can be avoided as long as all cuts are at prependicular
[22:01:06] <cradek> well we have both
[22:01:20] <ds3> you mean they are both implemented?
[22:01:22] <cradek> it's hard to cut an arc (the one you want at least) without tool shape comp
[22:01:25] <cradek> yes
[22:01:42] <ds3> ah, the page says otherwise
[22:02:57] <cradek> did you see that you can define the tool shape in the tool table
[22:03:17] <cradek> for instance in sim/lathe load tool 2 (t2m6) and you can see it in the gui too
[22:04:12] <ds3> is there a GUI for the tool table?
[22:04:19] <cradek> no
[22:04:21] <ds3> ah
[22:04:38] <ds3> no, was looking for a gui to edit it
[22:05:13] <cradek> after you edit it, you can reload it with Machine/Reload Tool Table
[22:05:23] <ds3> where is the text file for it?
[22:05:35] <cradek> configs/sim/lathe.tbl
[22:06:13] <ds3> whoa this more detailed then on the haas
[22:07:27] <cradek> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features#Lathe_specific_radius_compensation_done
[22:07:42] <cradek> this picture shows the available tool orientations
[22:08:21] <ds3> DOH. the catch there is '(done)' where as on top it says "not yet implemented" in bold :/
[22:10:29] <ds3> this is a lot of stuff to learn for one session. enough for the moment.
[22:14:08] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm decided to say screw it, whipped everything out and is organizing his nuts
[22:14:16] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm thought bout putting some nails in his nuts, but decided againest it.
[22:14:24] <Jymmmm> * Jymmmm put the nails in the ballcock instead.
[22:20:20] <K`zan> Gee, I want vista now... :http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/21/0042202.shtml
[22:20:54] <alex_joni> K`zan: hope you're beeing sarcastic
[22:21:14] <alex_joni> (for your own sake)
[22:22:31] <fenn> War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is strength.
[22:22:43] <SWPadnos> death isn't
[22:23:15] <eholmgren> hrmmnn... maybe the surgeon shouldn't be watching movies while they're operating?
[22:23:33] <SWPadnos> but they have to watch the instructional videos ...
[22:23:45] <fenn> the medical scenario is a red herring
[22:24:04] <Jymmmm> SWPadnos: Oh come one, gimme a break... Heart Transplant for Dummies.... Learn Cardiac Bypass in 24 hours.
[22:24:04] <fenn> the point of the original article is how totally ridiculous the entire scheme is and how it will never work
[22:24:11] <SWPadnos> why do you say that?
[22:24:19] <SWPadnos> (the red herring bit)
[22:24:34] <jmkasunich> more accurately, MS
[22:24:38] <Jymmmm> GAWD lets hope they aren't using M$ in the OR
[22:24:39] <fenn> uh.. because people visualize MRI data on special purpose workstations?
[22:24:47] <SWPadnos> not entirely true
[22:24:54] <jmkasunich> MS's claim that the medical example isn't true is a red herring
[22:24:58] <SWPadnos> and it's not just MRI
[22:25:14] <fenn> i'm saying it's a small market segment and isnt worth arguing about
[22:25:24] <jmkasunich> thats crap
[22:25:36] <SWPadnos> exactly. I was talking to a friend who works for GE Healthcare, and when I mentioned the original article to him, he got very distressed.
[22:25:46] <fenn> messing up an entire general purpose computer in order to watch DVD's is ridiculous
[22:26:19] <SWPadnos> he actually ended up writing a letter to their MS rep (they are responsible for probably 100000 licenses/year), asking what the deal is
[22:26:19] <K`zan> alex_joni: Totally sarcastic...
[22:26:29] <jmkasunich> messing up an entire general purpise computer in order to make sure people don't watch DVDs they shouldn't is even worse
[22:26:45] <fenn> jmkasunich: that's what i meant, sorry if my english is poort
[22:27:00] <SWPadnos> the "Physician's Desk Reference" is content-protected media ...
[22:27:08] <SWPadnos> (if it has videos)
[22:27:23] <Jymmmm> I rip DVD's. Give the ripped copy to the nephews and reburn another one when they scratch it.
[22:27:33] <SWPadnos> it's not just surgeons watching "The Abyss" while operating that's the problem
[22:27:45] <Jymmmm> Toss the original where they can't get at it
[22:27:47] <K`zan> As flakey as m$ stuff is I can't imagine anyone insane enough to run anything mission critcal on it...
[22:28:00] <Skullworks> and there are vids of blueray cracks allready posted on youtube
[22:28:07] <jmkasunich> K'zan - but they do, all the time
[22:28:08] <fenn> heh
[22:28:14] <SWPadnos> unfortunately, there are many places where Windows *is* used, even though it's a bad idea
[22:28:19] <K`zan> Fair use isn't anymore, need more $$$ to let you even near it.
[22:28:20] <fenn> i didnt even know there were any blu-ray discs out yet
[22:28:36] <SWPadnos> warships, nuclear plants, high energy physics labs, hospitals, governments ...
[22:28:38] <K`zan> Well, jmkasunich there is a lot of rampant insanity floating around these days...
[22:28:45] <Skullworks> demo runs
[22:28:54] <eholmgren> * eholmgren cracks out
[22:29:00] <SWPadnos> yeah - the first HD-DVD, "Serenity"
[22:29:00] <Skullworks> to show the hardware
[22:29:02] <fenn> * fenn puts on his tinfoil cowboy hat
[22:29:10] <fenn> yeeeehawww
[22:29:14] <K`zan> Last warship I heard of trying that had to be towed back to port<shudder>...
[22:29:20] <SWPadnos> good movie - I'd like to see it in HD
[22:29:29] <SWPadnos> K`zan, yeah that's the one :)
[22:30:02] <K`zan> Frightening. The very idea of m$ in my car scares me shitless, esp with the loony drivers in scabattle...
[22:30:24] <Jymmmm> K`zan: http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,13987,00.html
[22:30:31] <K`zan> * K`zan wonders why people think it strange I still have my 84 caddy :-).
[22:30:58] <Skullworks> lets all revert to linux micro kernals on PIII's
[22:31:13] <eholmgren> works for me
[22:31:15] <Skullworks> before M$ got in too deep
[22:31:25] <K`zan> Too depressing to think about this early in the day :).
[22:31:39] <K`zan> THis, however, might be cool: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio
[22:32:52] <Skullworks> couldn't find anything of interest on ePay
[22:34:54] <alex_joni> http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/windowsvista/archive/2007/01/20/windows-vista-content-protection-twenty-questions-and-answers.aspx
[22:35:05] <alex_joni> not one positive message on that page :)
[22:35:11] <alex_joni> I mean the user messages
[22:35:22] <lerneaen_hydra> how unexpected ;)
[22:35:42] <K`zan> Comes as no surprise to me, m$ and the entertainment mafia are getting more and more into the fortress mentality as time goes on.
[22:35:51] <K`zan> Bad part is that both can call down the men with guns...
[22:36:51] <K`zan> Waking up and smelling the shit burning seems to be completely beyond either :-(.
[22:37:34] <Skullworks> You know the us.gov did the same thing with GPS signals... distorted for the masses while pure signal was only offerred to approved parties.
[22:37:52] <K`zan> Skullworks: That I could see reasons for at the time.
[22:38:01] <Skullworks> and eventually that was abondoned.
[22:38:14] <K`zan> Yep, when the need was 'no longer there" heh...
[22:38:28] <Skullworks> the error was not enough to matter
[22:38:33] <K`zan> But in a real pinch they still can.
[22:38:46] <K`zan> Well, who knows what they can do that the mil receivers can handle?!?
[22:39:00] <jmkasunich> Skullworks: the error was up to a couple hundred meters
[22:39:18] <jmkasunich> thats enough to matter if you are guiding a non-nuclear weapon
[22:39:22] <Skullworks> I guy I went to HS with is now an EE in the GPS industry
[22:39:26] <K`zan> Would like that lot if the bad guys were using it to plot fire on my position :).
[22:39:32] <lerman> Not entirely true. The dropped the dithering, but the very high precision stuff is still encrypted. I believe it is 10 updates a second for us, but 100 updates per second for the military. (Or is it one update and ten ?)
[22:39:57] <alex_joni> "Sorry, I won't allow any content producer to take over my hardware even if this means installing linux as a second OS just for media (never used linux before actualy so I'm guessing it might do the job...)"
[22:40:14] <fenn> how exactly do they prevent civilians from using the military signals?
[22:40:16] <alex_joni> lerman: one and ten
[22:40:24] <alex_joni> fenn: encryption I think
[22:40:29] <K`zan> I am less enthralled with m$ as time goes on, I'll keep xp just for the flightsim stuff, but that is it anymore.
[22:41:44] <fenn> i thought it was all based on phase shift.. ehh. nevermind
[22:42:20] <lerman> bbl.
[22:42:22] <anonimasu> alex_joni: actuallu you will have no choice..
[22:42:22] <anonimasu> :D
[22:42:25] <anonimasu> actually..
[22:42:58] <Skullworks> It would be great if a mbd mfg would make a run of linux optimised main boards... ( I can dream still)
[22:43:15] <K`zan> jmkasunich: Caps arrived yesterday, THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[22:43:29] <anonimasu> soon traces and stuff have to be certfified..
[22:43:33] <anonimasu> err shielded..
[22:43:38] <anonimasu> to be m$ certified..
[22:43:48] <K`zan> Nannies neverending, sigh....
[22:44:15] <K`zan> I heard that drivers must be m$ certified to run under vista (making an already bad situation worse)...
[22:44:31] <K`zan> How do you get them certified if you can't install and test them?!?
[22:45:09] <K`zan> I guess you just pay $$$ for the blessings....
[22:45:09] <alex_joni> anonimasu: have no choice with what?
[22:45:42] <alex_joni> ""No. HFS uses additional chip characteristics other than those needed to write a driver. HFS requirements should not prevent the disclosure of all the information needed to write drivers."
[22:45:43] <Skullworks> worse - no more unified drivers - each unique device must have its own approved driver - hope the mfg does not go belly up or drop support for your hardware.
[22:45:46] <alex_joni> I am interesting in what problems might arise when a programmer reverse engineers the non-disclosed information about the hardware. Does the programmer get into legal trouble for using the undocumented features on a piece of hardware that he has paid for?"
[22:45:52] <alex_joni> haha
[22:46:10] <K`zan> Just bend over and pay, pay, pay....
[22:46:26] <Skullworks> they apply the DMCA
[22:46:48] <K`zan> Dunno what the truth of it is, but I have heard the business community is down on vista big time.
[22:47:05] <K`zan> DMCA is protectionist evil of the highest degree...
[22:47:07] <Skullworks> to reverse engineered drivers
[22:48:18] <Jymmmm> It's simple.... don't use Vista.
[22:48:29] <K`zan> I have no intention of doing so.
[22:48:32] <Skullworks> I won't
[22:49:31] <K`zan> The only thing linux doesn't do that I like to do is flightsim and that is a fricking GAME :-).
[22:49:55] <K`zan> FGFS and X-Plane, not quite the same, but ....
[22:49:53] <Jymmmm> K`zan There's always XP for that (a la wine?)
[22:50:01] <Skullworks> I run W2K on my Dell 530 dual 2.8 xeon system for Solidworks and my CAD/CAM.
[22:50:08] <SWPadnos> sadly, most high-end (but not super high-end) CAD software doesn't run on Linux
[22:50:13] <K`zan> Jymmmm: Nothing I ever wanted to run, runs under wine :-(.
[22:50:22] <K`zan> Couple editors is about it.
[22:50:32] <Jymmmm> K`zan VMWARE?
[22:50:37] <Skullworks> Someday I hope that there will be a suitable linux alternative
[22:50:37] <K`zan> And that varies from release to release :-(.
[22:50:44] <SWPadnos> and wine has a problem on 64-bit machines (though I should try again, I think there have been recent improvements there)
[22:50:46] <jmkasunich> K'zan: you're welcome (about the caps)
[22:50:54] <K`zan> Jymmmm: Way too expensive and requires the original anyway.
[22:51:07] <SWPadnos> vmware is free, for some versions
[22:51:39] <robin_sz> Skullworks, with an openGL card?
[22:51:45] <K`zan> SWPadnos: Far too many things either don't run or aren't available under 64 bit anything at this point - I've reverted to 32 bit stuff on the 64 bit box here.
[22:51:46] <SWPadnos> and if you have an old Win2K, you can install that (though that's probably against the license, even if you uninstall it from the original machine)
[22:51:47] <Skullworks> but VMware takes such a performance hit
[22:51:57] <SWPadnos> it's not all htat bad, for some things
[22:52:08] <alex_joni> can't wait for Gutman's response
[22:52:18] <K`zan> For something like flightsim, you need all the horsepower you can get as it is...
[22:52:37] <SWPadnos> I have an installation of SolidWorks on Win2k in VMWare, and I can spin medium to large models in realtime
[22:52:41] <robin_sz> Skullworks, and if so, does the openGL card improve solidworks any?
[22:52:46] <SWPadnos> (DW2004 though)
[22:52:48] <SWPadnos> err - SW2004
[22:52:57] <robin_sz> ooh, ancient
[22:52:58] <Skullworks> OpenGL is the best
[22:53:07] <robin_sz> which card do you use?
[22:53:08] <SWPadnos> yeah, and VMWare has a good openGL driver
[22:53:13] <SWPadnos> 7800GT
[22:53:16] <robin_sz> ?
[22:53:22] <SWPadnos> I also have a pair of FX3500s I intend to rty
[22:53:41] <robin_sz> FX3500s I know
[22:53:41] <SWPadnos> NVidia 7800GT, 256M, manufactured by XFX
[22:53:49] <robin_sz> SW approved?
[22:53:53] <Skullworks> I run an old Quadro 900XGA
[22:53:53] <SWPadnos> not the 7800GT
[22:53:59] <robin_sz> thought not
[22:54:11] <robin_sz> I was going to go for a Quadro
[22:54:14] <SWPadnos> but it's very fast, like 13800 FPS in glxgears
[22:54:19] <robin_sz> of some flavour
[22:54:23] <SWPadnos> the quadro was actually singificant;y slower
[22:54:31] <robin_sz> hmm
[22:54:37] <Skullworks> Quadros are not speed demos for frame rates
[22:54:38] <robin_sz> stability is important to me
[22:54:45] <Skullworks> but the shading...
[22:54:50] <SWPadnos> like 1/3 the speed (though I never changed X drivers)
[22:55:12] <robin_sz> SW2006 occasionally craps out on me
[22:55:25] <robin_sz> I always blame the shitty onboard Intel 810 grpahics
[22:55:43] <Skullworks> I have 2007 - but have not installed it on the "BETA" box
[22:56:11] <SWPadnos> wait a couple of years - it'll require Vista ...
[22:56:23] <Skullworks> they moved a bunch of stuff around and changed icons... so there is a real learning curve on this upgrade
[22:56:26] <robin_sz> not looked at that yet, im out of service contract at the moment on SW
[22:56:44] <robin_sz> is sheetmetal any better on 2007?
[22:56:46] <Skullworks> I was too
[22:56:51] <Skullworks> was still on 2004
[22:57:28] <Skullworks> but had a few die jobs that made it worth it
[22:57:36] <lerneaen_hydra> 'night all
[22:57:52] <SWPadnos> see you LH
[22:58:09] <Skullworks> had my die engineer use it to do the job - but have not moved it back.
[22:59:45] <alex_joni> http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12314
[23:00:26] <Skullworks> I was hoping that Blender might someday mature into a useable ware for making geometry that could then be posted as G-code... but I think its kinda died off.
[23:07:30] <robin_sz> alex_joni, so, here was my plan
[23:07:31] <K`zan> Wish there was something for that, there is qcad, but I still can't imagine what one does with 2D...
[23:08:03] <robin_sz> 20mm steel plate, 500mm x 700mm ... welded onto some 100x50x10 C channel
[23:08:15] <robin_sz> I was thinking of welding it directly to the channel
[23:08:17] <robin_sz> or ...
[23:08:45] <robin_sz> I could make a raised base from some 10mm plate, vertically, so spread the load over some more of the C channel
[23:09:10] <robin_sz> the 10mm plates would have to go in X and Y to keep it stable I guess
[23:09:13] <alex_joni> what's the channel for?
[23:09:21] <robin_sz> the cell base
[23:09:28] <alex_joni> ahh.. ok
[23:09:37] <alex_joni> so not just one channel..
[23:09:51] <robin_sz> directly under the bot say 2 channels runing full width
[23:10:00] <robin_sz> then 2 running front/back
[23:10:04] <alex_joni> right
[23:10:09] <alex_joni> sounds good to me
[23:10:23] <robin_sz> plus a few more to make up the floor, with aluminium checker plate as tread plate
[23:10:26] <alex_joni> what thickness is the channel's width?
[23:10:35] <robin_sz> ?
[23:10:39] <robin_sz> its 100mm wide
[23:10:43] <robin_sz> 50mm tall
[23:10:57] <alex_joni> wall thickness
[23:10:59] <robin_sz> the walls are 10mm thick at the sides
[23:11:07] <alex_joni> oh, sturdy enough
[23:11:07] <robin_sz> I think 7mm on the 100mm back face
[23:11:21] <robin_sz> its either that or I section beam
[23:11:35] <alex_joni> I think C is better than I beam
[23:11:46] <robin_sz> I guess what is crucial is the stiffnes between the 'bot mount and the work table
[23:12:09] <alex_joni> don't think so
[23:12:17] <alex_joni> distance & co is more crucial
[23:12:22] <alex_joni> table won't move around I hope :)
[23:17:36] <jepler> wow, is /. always so clueless? "
[23:17:36] <jepler> wow, is /. always so clueless? "IT: Chinese Prof Cracks SHA-1 Data Encryption Scheme
[23:17:37] <jepler> "
[23:17:57] <jepler> "she and her team have taken out the SHA-1 scheme, which includes the (highly thought of) MD5 algorithm"
[23:18:21] <anonimasu> jepler: yes
[23:18:38] <anonimasu> jepler: it's filled with people that want to be geeks..
[23:20:48] <fenn> Skullworks: blender hasn't died off at all, it just was never suited for cad modeling in the first place
[23:21:11] <fenn> blender's main strength is its interface, which is crap for anything precise
[23:21:16] <anonimasu> fenn: http://public.kitware.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Examples/Rendering/Python/
[23:21:59] <robin_sz> alex_joni, my theory was to make the coupling between the table and the bot ultra rigid, so even if the bot managed to flex the floor beams, the table would move with it.. thus maintianing the relationship between table and bot
[23:22:04] <fenn> are these not in the vtk distro package?
[23:22:11] <anonimasu> fenn: I dont know
[23:22:19] <anonimasu> fenn: maybe somewhere
[23:22:23] <Skullworks> true
[23:22:28] <anonimasu> fenn: it looks like they make actors for all objects
[23:23:01] <fenn> but there's only a few parts
[23:23:13] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:23:18] <alex_joni> robin_sz: you might be overengineering it
[23:23:34] <fenn> oh that spline is sexy
[23:23:50] <robin_sz> alex_joni, woah .. you are the one that uses 40mm plates not me :)
[23:23:59] <robin_sz> but yeah, its only a baby bot
[23:24:03] <alex_joni> those are 3t turn/tilt tables
[23:24:14] <robin_sz> oh,. heeeee
[23:25:08] <robin_sz> this is only a 350kg bot ... with an 8kg payload .. nothing really
[23:25:28] <fenn> just bolt it to the concrete, sheesh
[23:25:43] <robin_sz> that is so not an option
[23:27:23] <anonimasu> fenn:
[23:27:24] <anonimasu> we do do something wrong!
[23:27:30] <fenn> i bet
[23:27:35] <fenn> what did you have in mind?
[23:28:06] <anonimasu> wait a sec..
[23:28:06] <alex_joni> robin_sz: guess your plan is way OK
[23:28:34] <robin_sz> I'll let you know what it looks liek when we get it built this week
[23:28:36] <fenn> anonimasu: i'm gonna try stuffing a vtk array like i said and see how it works out
[23:28:56] <anonimasu> wait a sec..
[23:29:03] <robin_sz> alex_joni, you recon on solid sides or 25mm mesh for the cell?
[23:29:27] <fenn> * fenn waits
[23:29:39] <alex_joni> 25mm mesh + protection you mean?
[23:29:41] <anonimasu> http://public.kitware.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Examples/VisualizationAlgorithms/Python/ExtractGeometry.py?rev=1.3&view=markup
[23:29:48] <alex_joni> whatever is cheaper :)
[23:30:01] <alex_joni> usually (over here) solid (thin) sides are cheaper
[23:30:05] <anonimasu> I used sample.SetSampleDimensions(200, 200, 50)
[23:30:08] <anonimasu> ;)
[23:30:44] <fenn> that's still pretty slow
[23:31:02] <anonimasu> it's not..
[23:31:02] <fenn> that's a crapload of cubes though
[23:31:04] <anonimasu> just on generating..
[23:31:07] <anonimasu> but it's a crapload :)
[23:31:49] <fenn> cool
[23:32:00] <alex_joni> heading for bed here
[23:32:03] <alex_joni> good night all
[23:32:05] <anonimasu> spinning around and stuff is smooth
[23:32:15] <alex_joni> anonimasu: screenshot?
[23:32:52] <anonimasu> alex_joni: no :/
[23:32:58] <anonimasu> I need to save it and copy it to the work server
[23:33:04] <alex_joni> imagebin ?
[23:33:06] <anonimasu> im half into bed :)
[23:33:06] <anonimasu> ah sure
[23:33:30] <fenn> alex_joni: http://fenn.dyndns.org/pub/irc/ExtractGeometry.png
[23:33:39] <alex_joni> thx
[23:33:58] <alex_joni> well.. it looks like .. something
[23:34:08] <alex_joni> and I like the orange
[23:34:22] <fenn> that's just an example that ships with vtk
[23:34:48] <alex_joni> I would have modeled a sheep as an example
[23:34:53] <anonimasu> heh
[23:35:01] <anonimasu> damn.
[23:35:04] <alex_joni> g'night
[23:35:05] <anonimasu> they really do add actors for each object.
[23:35:13] <anonimasu> http://public.kitware.com/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/Examples/VisualizationAlgorithms/Python/officeTube.py?rev=1.2&view=markup
[23:36:51] <fenn> what are you saying with this last one?
[23:37:11] <anonimasu> look at how they add actors for all objects..
[23:37:41] <fenn> but there are only like 6 objects
[23:37:49] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:38:47] <fenn> in the gazillions of cubes see where it says dataMapper = vtk.vtkDataSetMapper()
[23:38:52] <fenn> dataActor = vtk.vtkActor()
[23:39:00] <fenn> there's only one actor for all those cubes
[23:39:25] <anonimasu> yeah
[23:40:06] <anonimasu> maybe mailing the userlist would be a good place to start
[23:40:26] <fenn> i dont think its that hard
[23:41:03] <fenn> i would like to find some better docs than just doxygen
[23:41:05] <anonimasu> yeah..
[23:41:09] <anonimasu> that's the problem really
[23:41:40] <fenn> looked at this? http://www.imaging.robarts.ca/~dgobbi/vtk/
[23:41:57] <fenn> its a start at least
[23:42:11] <anonimasu> yes that's where I got my cone code :)
[23:43:46] <anonimasu> I need to go to bed now
[23:43:47] <anonimasu> laters
[23:45:52] <K`zan> rest well