#emc | Logs for 2007-01-23

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[00:00:03] <ds3> there is suppose to be rigidity problems on that axis due to the way the lead screw nut is mounted
[00:00:06] <K`zan> The Y on this thing, to be as kind as I can be, sucks BADLY.
[00:00:23] <K`zan> Heh, I'm sure, it ain't a bridgport :).
[00:00:27] <ds3> so you confirm it
[00:00:41] <ds3> they are saying the X2 design is better
[00:00:57] <K`zan> problem with the current Y is that by the time you get somethiing mounted to the table, you are already well out of the gibs.
[00:01:14] <K`zan> Does not help with rigidity nor chatter...
[00:01:32] <ds3> Oh.
[00:01:43] <K`zan> Centered in the gibs, the quill comes down about on the front edge of the table.
[00:01:54] <K`zan> more to the front than that actually.
[00:02:04] <K`zan> Sucko big time...
[00:02:29] <ds3> I played with it at HF and there are 2 redeeming features on that mill - MT tooling and a working quill
[00:02:39] <SWPadnos> it's not immediately obvious to me how the motors mount with that cncfusion kit
[00:02:44] <K`zan> I really should just go ahead and order the damn Y extensions.
[00:03:13] <K`zan> http://www.cncfusion.com/images/X1mounts/X1assembly/CIMG3302.JPG
[00:03:27] <K`zan> SWPadnos: ^^^^^
[00:03:32] <SWPadnos> oh, now that is bad design
[00:03:41] <K`zan> Same as any for the uMill...
[00:03:56] <SWPadnos> using only two bolts on the motor faceplate ...
[00:03:57] <K`zan> same idea whether you use channel, plates and bolts or whatever.
[00:04:09] <K`zan> Ah, true...
[00:04:15] <SWPadnos> not that there's enough power there to strip an 8-32 screw ...
[00:04:50] <ds3> how much power does it take to strip a 8-32?
[00:05:14] <SWPadnos> dunno - but I can do it, so it's probably under 200W :)
[00:05:20] <K`zan> Probably more than the 276 in/oz I am looking at....
[00:05:31] <SWPadnos> it's a torque thing, not power
[00:05:47] <SWPadnos> and 276 oz-in probably wouldn't do it, depending on the screw material
[00:05:50] <ds3> Oh... okie so I am safe with the 200in/oz motors ;)
[00:06:06] <ds3> have you looked at the taig mounts? that might be more secure
[00:06:07] <SWPadnos> yeah - 200W and 200 oz-in are very different
[00:07:02] <K`zan> If I thought a bridgeport would not end up 4 floors down in the basement, I would probably just save my $$$ :).
[00:07:18] <K`zan> LOL, sure would be a LOT less frustrating :-).
[00:08:13] <SWPadnos> don't bet on it ;)
[00:08:29] <K`zan> Actually I suspect a bridgport (clone) would neither fit in the elevator nor fit up the stairs :), so I guess I go with what I got...
[00:08:33] <SWPadnos> I have yet to make motor mounts for mine (it's been less than 2 years though ;) )
[00:08:43] <K`zan> You have a uMill ?
[00:08:51] <SWPadnos> no, I have a Bridgeport
[00:08:58] <K`zan> Ah, sigh...
[00:09:07] <K`zan> For a moment I thought I might not be alone here :).
[00:09:20] <SWPadnos> they're not necesasrily less frustrating, and you can't exactly lay them on their back for easy access ;)
[00:09:32] <K`zan> There IS that :-).
[00:09:40] <SWPadnos> well, you may be able to, but standing them up again is a real pain
[00:09:51] <SWPadnos> luckily, it's only a ton or so
[00:09:53] <K`zan> Fork lift or chain hoist....
[00:10:06] <SWPadnos> not in my garage, unfortunately
[00:10:21] <K`zan> This wooden building would not support one and my landnazi would have a heart attack...
[00:10:26] <SWPadnos> in fact, I have to be careful about where I wheel it - the head is high enough to take out the flourexcent bulbs ...
[00:10:36] <K`zan> Hummm, it MIGHT be worth it for that :-).
[00:10:38] <SWPadnos> s/x/s/
[00:10:47] <SWPadnos> heh
[00:10:55] <K`zan> Tough life ;-) </envy>
[00:11:09] <SWPadnos> I'm sure my wife will be even happier wehen the 3000 pound lathe comes :)
[00:11:10] <K`zan> Tough life ;-) </HEAVY_envy>
[00:11:16] <K`zan> LOL
[00:11:33] <SWPadnos> though it'll be me who can't park in the garage (still)
[00:11:49] <K`zan> Gotta start someplace, sigh, I didn't know how good I had it when all I had to do was write programs for the moogs...
[00:12:04] <SWPadnos> I could really use a 1000 sq-ft shop with 12 foot or higher ceilings
[00:12:20] <K`zan> In seattle that would pretty much mean loosing your transportation...
[00:12:30] <K`zan> or a lot of damage rather constantly.
[00:12:30] <SWPadnos> here it pretty much means losing your wallet
[00:12:39] <K`zan> ??
[00:12:43] <K`zan> here??
[00:12:50] <SWPadnos> ie, it's rather costly
[00:12:50] <K`zan> If I may ask.
[00:12:54] <SWPadnos> Vermont
[00:12:58] <SWPadnos> specifically the Burlington area
[00:13:13] <K`zan> Same here, accounts for the ludicrisly high government mandated insurance...
[00:13:26] <K`zan> Wish I could get the gov to do that for my business...
[00:14:19] <K`zan> Lot of industry there, lucky you.
[00:14:27] <SWPadnos> not here, for the most part
[00:14:42] <K`zan> Burlington? Really?
[00:14:48] <SWPadnos> there used to be in the southern part of the state - in Springfield
[00:14:52] <K`zan> Thought that was pretty heavy industry.
[00:14:55] <SWPadnos> you have to get the right Burlington :)
[00:15:01] <K`zan> Ah :-).
[00:15:12] <K`zan> * K`zan avoids coasts anymore...
[00:15:17] <SWPadnos> no - a fair amount of high-tech (IBM has a fab here, and IDX - now GE healthcare software)
[00:15:34] <SWPadnos> not much in the industrial arena. I went to Buffalo for my mill
[00:15:44] <K`zan> Long haul...
[00:15:53] <SWPadnos> strangely though, I"m getting a very niec NC lathe from about 5 miles away
[00:15:59] <K`zan> with a mill, around the block is a long haul :).
[00:16:02] <SWPadnos> from an aerospace shop
[00:16:07] <K`zan> Cool...
[00:16:13] <SWPadnos> it's the last 20 feet that make all the difference
[00:16:28] <SWPadnos> most liftgates are only rated for 1500 pounds or so ...
[00:16:28] <K`zan> Once we get out of scabattle and out of frugging apartments, a lot of things open up for me.
[00:16:48] <SWPadnos> so the milling machine is a bit to big (200 pounds), and the lathe is away too big (3000 pounds)
[00:16:55] <SWPadnos> get a barn
[00:16:59] <K`zan> Yeah, read enough stories about that kind of thing on r.c.m
[00:17:02] <SWPadnos> or a garage with cathedral ceilings ;)
[00:17:19] <K`zan> :-)
[00:17:55] <K`zan> Here if you do industrial stuff, you are sort of evil, but good for much taxing...
[00:18:30] <K`zan> I'd be happy to just have a room all to myself :-) for a start.
[00:19:20] <K`zan> http://wrlabs.shacknet.nu/~vw/MyMachineShop/
[00:19:36] <K`zan> Entertainment for you folks with real shops :)
[00:19:54] <SWPadnos> heh. if I had a photo, you'd shudder ;)
[00:20:42] <K`zan> Something about "the grass is always greener..." LOL
[00:20:58] <SWPadnos> if only I had heat in the garage ...
[00:21:08] <SWPadnos> it would be better for the machines, that's for sure
[00:23:18] <ds3> just use the shops at the JC
[00:26:50] <SWPadnos> Junior College?
[00:26:57] <ds3> yes
[00:27:13] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure they have any metalworking equipment there
[00:27:17] <ds3> oh
[00:27:22] <SWPadnos> (we don't really have a JC around here)
[00:27:56] <K`zan> Sterting to wonder how much machining is left in the USA other than the hobbiest...
[00:27:58] <SWPadnos> there's a technical/vocational center next door to my house (for the most part), but I don't know what they have, and what's usable by the community
[00:28:14] <SWPadnos> not much. americans are too greedy, on the whole
[00:28:34] <K`zan> Sigh, it does seem to be a rampant disease these days :-(.
[00:28:40] <SWPadnos> there is still stuffrelated to aerospace and military, because we're more paranoid than greedy :)
[00:28:56] <K`zan> That is probably very wise...
[00:29:17] <K`zan> Just because we are civilized (such as it is) does not by any stretch mean the rest of the world is.
[00:29:58] <K`zan> "Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they are not out to get you" -- Sign on therapist wall...
[00:30:07] <SWPadnos> let's not go there tonight. there's plenty of other stuff to think about
[00:30:23] <K`zan> Yep and nothing we can really do about it anyway.
[00:30:44] <K`zan> Just keep your powder dry and plod on...
[00:31:58] <K`zan> Back to figuring out where to start....
[00:33:21] <ds3> replace it with an X2 or X3 ;)
[00:33:38] <K`zan> Probably wisest to just get the Y table mod.
[00:33:42] <K`zan> Heh, I wish....
[00:33:48] <ds3> the X2 isn't that much more
[00:34:02] <K`zan> Right now I'll keep most of my coins to get out of this sewer.
[00:34:20] <K`zan> ~= $500...
[00:34:35] <ds3> thought HF has that around $420ish
[00:34:46] <K`zan> table ~= $100 with shipping.
[00:34:53] <ds3> since it is a store item, it qualify for 20% off coupons
[00:35:32] <K`zan> Maybe / probably once I get out of here and can justify the expense. Any machining where I am heading might mean paying work :-).
[00:35:56] <K`zan> Always nice to get paid to play :-)!
[00:36:52] <K`zan> At the moment this is ALL educational and one does indeed pay for education :).
[00:42:21] <ds3> are you a student?
[00:43:31] <owad> I was at Cabin Fever over the weekend, and there were a lot of guys running Mach3, but none with EMC2. So I decided to ask a fellow who was selling circuit boards and exhibiting a mill controlled by Mach3 what he thought of EMC2 and the pros/cons compared to EMC2. Turns out I was talking to Steve Stallings. He had nice things to say about you all. :-)
[00:44:23] <K`zan> ds3: Not at any instituition - all on my own.
[00:44:42] <ds3> K`zan: then what's the difference if you get paid to do machining or not?
[00:45:01] <K`zan> None really, but it would be nice if it happened :-).
[00:45:08] <ds3> Oh heh
[00:45:23] <K`zan> Always nice to have a hobby pay for itself.
[00:45:50] <K`zan> And right now all I can call it is a hobby.
[00:46:23] <K`zan> :-(.
[00:46:27] <ds3> a lot of hobbies cease to be fun once you get paid for it :(
[00:46:51] <K`zan> True, but a good while back I worked at it and really enjoyed it.
[00:48:16] <K`zan> For some reason mechanical stuff is just fun.
[00:48:41] <K`zan> Getting there (cnc) this way IS a bit trying at times, to be sure :-).
[00:49:35] <ds3> the alignment and final tweaking might be more annoying
[00:50:15] <K`zan> Yep, I can see that coming to be sure.
[00:51:08] <K`zan> LOTS to do.
[00:51:13] <K`zan> LOTS to get right...
[00:51:28] <ds3> you got the indicators and clamps for them?
[00:52:03] <K`zan> Got indicators, no clamps yets as damn near everything is going to get changed out (x and y).
[00:52:28] <ds3> by clamps I mean holders
[00:52:31] <K`zan> Spending an awful :) lot of time planning at this point.
[00:52:41] <K`zan> end mill? collets?
[00:52:47] <ds3> holders for the indicators
[00:53:06] <ds3> be it a magmount, one of those flexible thingies or whatever else you like
[00:53:07] <K`zan> Magnetic holders at this point which is mess with the uMill.
[00:53:30] <K`zan> Very limited spaces to clamp to.
[00:54:10] <K`zan> Lost the Z indicator when I went to the belt drive.
[00:54:13] <ds3> always a bent rod in the collet
[00:54:23] <K`zan> Got to come up with something to replace that.
[00:54:36] <K`zan> Yep, can and do that.
[00:54:39] <ds3> setup a DRO =)
[00:54:48] <K`zan> Heh, LONGway down the road.
[00:55:14] <K`zan> If at all with this mill.
[00:56:00] <ds3> might be easier then replacing a micrometer collar esp. since the screws are part metric
[00:56:44] <K`zan> Might be easier, but on my budget it is undoable.
[00:57:13] <K`zan> "On the cheap" takes on new color and dimension here :-).
[00:58:47] <ds3> $12 + some creativity is still too much?
[00:59:11] <K`zan> Where did you find DROs for $12?!?!?!
[00:59:23] <ds3> HF digital calipers are $12 on sale
[00:59:45] <ds3> look up the shumatech DRO for a built out system based on them
[00:59:48] <K`zan> Yes, that could be done and perhaps eventually will be.
[01:00:01] <K`zan> Seen a few people that have done basically that.
[01:00:34] <ds3> but since you are going CNC, all you really need is some clamps to hold the caliper down on the Z axis and be done with
[01:00:39] <ds3> it'll come off after CNC is finish
[01:01:02] <K`zan> Still a nice thing to have if you have to do anything manual.
[01:01:15] <ds3> hehe... just use the jog function
[01:01:22] <K`zan> :-) true.
[01:01:50] <owad> CDCO Machinery sells some decent/cheap DROs
[01:02:32] <ds3> grrrrrrr perl is confusing "00", "0", 0, and undef :/
[01:03:29] <K`zan> CDCO does have decent prices on those!
[01:03:40] <ds3> cheaper then the shumatech stuff?
[01:03:49] <K`zan> IIRC 150mm is what I get with the expanded tables on the uMill.
[01:05:18] <K`zan> chase all over for shumatech pricing...
[01:05:23] <ds3> you decided what to use for limit/home switches yet?
[01:05:55] <K`zan> was considering hall effect sensors, but that is by no means written in stone at this point.
[01:06:24] <K`zan> As noted, I am doing a rather fantastic amount of thrashing at this point :-/.
[01:06:54] <ds3> found any comparisms for limit switches? trying to figure out what I want
[01:07:34] <K`zan> Just barely into researching that. Mechanicals have various problems as do the hall things.
[01:08:09] <K`zan> Hall, at this point, seems easier, but I may be wrong there.
[01:08:12] <K`zan> Liked this one:
[01:08:49] <ds3> one thing that bugged me is the lack of room
[01:09:02] <CIA-8> 03fjungclaus 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py:
[01:09:02] <CIA-8> Have the .ini file setting INCREMENTS in the [DISPLAY] area working
[01:09:02] <CIA-8> as described in the manual ...
[01:09:07] <owad> ds3, I don't know what schumatech charges, so I'm not sure. CDCO charges $175 for a 3 axis display.
[01:09:25] <ds3> owad: does it include the scales?
[01:09:28] <owad> no
[01:09:35] <K`zan> My bookmarks are getting to be a real mess :-(.
[01:09:40] <ds3> that is comparable to the shumatech kit
[01:09:46] <K`zan> http://www.balbots.com/article_info.php?articles_id=10
[01:10:05] <owad> What's shumatech charge? I was just looking at their website, and there wasn't any U.S. order link
[01:10:18] <ds3> shumatech is a kit
[01:10:46] <ds3> you order the parts given the BOM from Digikey or mouser; the board is the only non OtS part
[01:11:29] <owad> The shumatech enclosure looks sturdier
[01:12:14] <owad> guess they don't actually sell that enclosure though, looking closer
[01:12:26] <ds3> "machine your own"
[01:13:18] <owad> CDCO is somewhat cheap-looking plastic
[01:16:33] <ds3> wheeeeeeeeeeeee G code post-post processor works
[01:18:12] <ds3> is there a way to capture the output of axis into an STL?
[02:14:26] <fenn> not really
[02:14:39] <fenn> its what i've been working on this week actually
[02:15:12] <fenn> apparently jepler has been doing stuff in "secret" and made a lot of progress
[02:15:29] <ds3> that would be almost prefect now that I kind of have a haas to EMC post-post processor working
[02:16:26] <fenn> hmm did the logs move?
[02:16:33] <fenn> logger_emc: bookmark
[02:16:33] <fenn> Just this once .. here's the log: http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-01-23.txt
[02:18:11] <fenn> wow
[02:18:32] <fenn> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth3.png
[02:19:09] <ds3> nice
[02:19:46] <ds3> maybe I am missing something but is the G76 (multipass threading) in EMC fanuc style?
[02:20:24] <fenn> dunno if a consensus was ever reached regarding threading codes
[02:21:16] <ds3> is there a page describing g76?
[02:21:39] <fenn> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Lathe_Advanced_Features#Canned_thread_turning_cycle
[02:22:30] <ds3> no wonder I can't find it with a search for G76
[02:28:13] <ds3> blah seems only G33 is implemented
[02:35:25] <fenn> ds3: wow it seems a lot of progress has been made today while i was asleep
[02:35:52] <fenn> ds3: here is a script that previews your gcode output http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gdepth.py
[02:38:24] <fenn> python gdepth.py -t .3 -x "-2.1 2.1" -y "-2.1 2.1" -r 200 -o spiral.png emc2.cvs/nc_files/spiral.ngc
[02:55:47] <jepler> fenn: I'm glad you like it -- did you get it to run on your system?
[03:01:13] <cradek> ds3: see g76.ngc in cvs
[03:07:18] <fenn> no, i think i need to install an updated gcode module
[03:07:23] <fenn> then i got distracted looking at the source
[03:14:48] <jepler> fenn: it's my usual scatter-brained approach to coding
[03:15:06] <fenn> hmm.. python2.4/site-packages/gcode.so is from cvs but i get
[03:15:05] <fenn> code, seq = gcode.parse(args[0], Canon(), 'g20 g17 g64', '')
[03:15:05] <fenn> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'parse'
[03:15:51] <jepler> are you getting the gcode module you expect? python -c 'import gcode; print gcode.__file__; print dir(gcode)'
[03:16:12] <fenn> gcode.pyc
[03:16:12] <fenn> ['__builtins__', '__doc__', '__file__', '__name__', 'gcode']
[03:16:35] <jepler> python gets modules from the directory where the script resides before any other location
[03:16:50] <fenn> ah whooops
[03:16:58] <jepler> put gdepth in its own directory or rm gcode.py gcode.pyc
[03:17:40] <fenn> ok its cranking now
[03:19:39] <fenn> wow... that's great
[03:19:56] <fenn> looks just like the real thing eh?
[03:20:18] <jepler> subject to the resolution you can handle waiting for
[03:20:29] <jepler> I swapped my machine to death earlier trying to do a PCB gcode file at 500dpi
[03:23:01] <fenn> 100 dpi is quite usable
[03:23:15] <fenn> and certainly fast enough
[03:23:23] <jepler> officially announced: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01169521961
[03:26:51] <fenn> how long did that take to write?
[03:29:07] <ds3> bah
[03:29:15] <ds3> fenn, your script requires an installed EMC?
[03:29:21] <fenn> yes of course
[03:29:32] <fenn> otherwise how would you be sure that EMC does the exact same thing?
[03:29:36] <ds3> I'm running in place at the moment
[03:29:44] <fenn> oh
[03:29:50] <fenn> well, sudo make install
[03:29:57] <ds3> I need to rebuild to do that
[03:30:12] <ds3> but that's fine.... I want to finish my HAAS to EMC script
[03:31:26] <fenn> jepler: something broke between version 0 and 0.1, now all i get is a red square
[03:31:54] <ds3> wow this is a complex g76
[03:32:30] <jepler> fenn: hm, really?
[03:32:38] <jepler> that's no good
[03:33:23] <jepler> fenn: try this commandline: ./gdepth.py -t .3 -x "-2.1 2.1" -y "-2.1 2.1" -r 200 ~/emc2.1/nc_files/spiral.ngc
[03:33:30] <jepler> fenn: are you using the "acceleration module"?
[03:33:33] <cradek> ds3: the tapered start/end stuff isn't in 2.1 - it's not quite done
[03:33:37] <fenn> it draws the .png fine
[03:33:51] <cradek> ds3: so ignore "e" and "l" but I think everything else is there
[03:34:13] <ds3> cradek: still a lot of parameters compared to what I am translating from
[03:34:28] <cradek> you can probably leave out the ones you don't need, they have sensible defaults
[03:34:39] <ds3> Oh
[03:34:43] <cradek> ahem - sensible, undocumented, defaults
[03:34:52] <ds3> what is required?
[03:34:55] <fenn> jepler: ok, "make" fixed it :)
[03:35:13] <ds3> if I still see the tip of the tool at the end of the cycle, I am happy =)
[03:35:22] <cradek> ds3: probably just drive line and depths
[03:35:25] <cradek> yeah no kidding
[03:35:26] <jepler> fenn: hm it's probably something obvious
[03:35:46] <cradek> but you probably want compound slide angle, degression, and spring passes for any real cut
[03:36:18] <cradek> unless your controller cuts straight in? I hear some do, but I can't imagine that working very well
[03:36:33] <ds3> isnt' compound assumed to be 30 fix for UN threads?
[03:36:46] <jepler> fenn: if you care to fix it in your local copy: http://pastebin.ca/325332
[03:37:00] <cradek> most people use 29
[03:37:13] <cradek> at least that's how I was taught to set a manual lathe
[03:37:29] <cradek> you don't want the right side rubbing, you want it to cut a bit
[03:37:37] <ds3> I been told 29, 29.5, and 30
[03:37:47] <jepler> (huh, most of the time is spent shoveling the data through glVertex calls to make the display list?)
[03:37:54] <cradek> as you please - that's why it's a parameter
[03:38:00] <ds3> *nod*
[03:38:20] <ds3> except I am writing a translator so it'll be hard coded as I don't think Haas provides it
[03:38:42] <cradek> do they do 30 or 0 or some other number?
[03:39:12] <ds3> donno, they have at least 3 different codes for threading. Going to go dig out the manuals in a few minutes
[03:39:56] <cradek> someone at fest told me their control only does 0 (no compound)
[03:40:18] <ds3> might depend on the G code used
[03:40:21] <cradek> sure
[03:41:27] <jepler> fenn: "0.2" uploaded
[03:43:12] <fenn> much faster
[03:43:35] <jepler> with the accel module, you mean?
[03:45:21] <fenn> yes, i think..
[03:45:55] <K`zan> Something tells me I should have installed the ubuntu system here from the EMC CD rather than the regular, sigh. Ain't hindsight a wonderful thing :-/...
[03:46:10] <cradek> a few updates?
[03:46:19] <jmkasunich> like 200?
[03:46:36] <K`zan> Not sure what it would take, need to take a look at adapt and see if EMC is even there.
[03:46:37] <cradek> the emc cd is getting old too, but not as bad as the original dapper disc
[03:46:56] <cradek> K`zan: there are simple install instructions on linuxcnc.org
[03:47:32] <K`zan> Will take a looky see, the CNC box is in the shop and isn't networked (yet).
[03:47:52] <cradek> it's dapper right?
[03:47:58] <K`zan> Nope it isn't available through adept...
[03:48:02] <cradek> err 6.06 LTS
[03:48:03] <K`zan> Edgu
[03:48:08] <K`zan> edgy
[03:48:10] <jmkasunich> oh
[03:48:13] <cradek> we don't build releases for edgy
[03:48:19] <jmkasunich> edgy is not the preferred path
[03:48:21] <cradek> you should use dapper if it's just for emc
[03:48:32] <K`zan> Linux witch2u 2.6.17-10-386 #2 Tue Dec 5 22:26:18 UTC 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[03:48:43] <K`zan> Which means starting over with ubuntu on this box...
[03:49:08] <cradek> the install is trivially easy
[03:49:10] <K`zan> Heh, as I said, something about hindsight :-).
[03:49:19] <cradek> heh, yeah
[03:49:23] <K`zan> Yes, but getting everything back will take a while again.
[03:49:37] <K`zan> Finally about got this up to where the gentoo box is.
[03:49:51] <K`zan> For my use.
[03:50:15] <K`zan> Maybe just drag the emc box back in here since it is going to be a while before I get CNC together :-/.
[03:50:33] <K`zan> Got two spare slots on the KVM :-).
[03:51:12] <fenn> K`zan: i've used skate bearings (non-angular contact, shallow groove) and they do work, and better than a plain bronze bearing, but you can tell it's stressful for the bearing so they may not last a long time
[03:51:37] <K`zan> fenn: That has gone on the back burner for now, until I can get the right ones...
[03:52:12] <fenn> are they going on when you cnc it?
[03:52:23] <K`zan> Yes, once I get to it all :-).
[03:52:27] <fenn> anyway you need either angular contact or both thrust and radial
[03:52:32] <K`zan> Still thrashing a LOT on just what to do.
[03:53:15] <jepler> goodnight guys
[03:53:18] <cradek> bye
[03:53:22] <jmkasunich> goodnight jeff
[03:53:24] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/pid.9: man page for PID loop
[03:53:26] <K`zan> Spend all this time I am waiting to be able to afford drives and motors deciding whether to throw money at it (heh) or make something
[03:53:30] <K`zan> Night jepler
[03:53:33] <K`zan> Rest well
[03:59:31] <K`zan> Biggest problem is the dis and re-assembly process. Once I have two mills, life gets easier :).
[04:00:57] <fenn> you mean make a drive?
[04:00:57] <K`zan> I should be spending some of this time learning to make G-Code do what I need while the rest is pending.
[04:00:59] <fenn> or make a mount kit
[04:01:10] <fenn> or wind your own steppers :D
[04:01:25] <skunkworks> or you could make your own servo drives ;)
[04:01:32] <K`zan> fenn: I did that for a floppy stepper, but I am pretty much decided to forget the xylotex drives and get Geckos
[04:01:45] <fenn> ok
[04:01:48] <K`zan> AVR and a ULN2803...
[04:01:58] <fenn> yeah a real motor driver is a lot more involved
[04:02:22] <K`zan> True, I could cheap it, but that is getting as discouraging as the "savings" would be...
[04:02:54] <K`zan> The more I watched the xylotex group, the more that just seems to be a bad idea, no matter how cheap it is.
[04:03:30] <K`zan> Just seems to be really "delicate"...
[04:03:50] <K`zan> Jymmmmmmms experience is also not encouraging.
[04:05:16] <Guest156> hey everyone, having a problem with some gcode to do a circle, getting back a message that all axes are missing motion
[04:05:40] <K`zan> Sure you set feed rates?
[04:05:54] <Guest156> in tthe gcode ot ini?
[04:06:02] <K`zan> * K`zan is not God's gift to G-Code :-).
[04:06:13] <K`zan> In the code yes, got the be there to move anything.
[04:06:24] <skunkworks> if it is 1 or 2 lines - paste them here.
[04:06:33] <skunkworks> otherwise use pastebin.ca
[04:06:50] <K`zan> Hey skunkworks - you work for Lockheed :-)?
[04:07:02] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: add manpage for PID loops
[04:07:02] <CIA-8> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/pid.9: add manpage for PID loops
[04:07:14] <K`zan> There are canned routines for circles IIRC?
[04:07:13] <Guest156> feed rate 20 N3 G3 I-0.5 J0. F20.
[04:07:40] <skunkworks> k`zan: na - just own a dodge stealth ;)
[04:07:57] <K`zan> feed rate 20 <-- don't think that is legal G-Code..?!?
[04:08:01] <skunkworks> you need x an y posistions
[04:08:05] <K`zan> :-) Good start :-)
[04:08:22] <skunkworks> what is your post-proccessor?
[04:08:25] <K`zan> :-) Good start :-) Dodge that is :-)
[04:08:37] <skunkworks> its really a mitsubishi
[04:08:43] <Guest156> lol
[04:09:05] <Guest156> feed rate 20 was just a reply code started with 20 lol
[04:09:34] <Guest156> was using code that was previously run on mach3
[04:09:53] <skunkworks> guest156: you need the end position of the arc in x y cordinates.
[04:10:11] <skunkworks> emc2 uses the nist standard gcode.
[04:10:40] <K`zan> * K`zan hasn't done g-code in over 10 years now, so she will now shut up.
[04:10:45] <Guest156> ok tried the emc post under bobcad but it doesn't set that
[04:12:23] <skunkworks> http://axis.unpy.net/files/gcode.html
[04:12:33] <skunkworks> usually fanuc post works with minimal mods
[04:13:23] <skunkworks> rum and orange juice is starting to taste too good.
[04:13:45] <K`zan> * K`zan is a vodka and orange juice fan :).
[04:14:02] <K`zan> Will have to try rum someday...
[04:14:47] <skunkworks> itssss not toooooo baddddd ;)
[04:14:53] <K`zan> LOL
[04:15:48] <Guest156> fanuc doesn't give ending coords either
[04:16:05] <K`zan> Wonder if the mini-mill uses those damn plastic gears...
[04:16:46] <skunkworks> guest156: then there must be a setting in bobcad to put the x,y coordinates in the g2,g3 commands
[04:17:07] <fenn> ds3: if you're still here, look at nc_files/g76.ngc
[04:17:13] <K`zan> Apparently...
[04:17:21] <skunkworks> * skunkworks doesn't know bobcad
[04:20:03] <K`zan> Wonder if Homier ever has anything in stock for over 5 minutes ?!?
[04:30:35] <skunkworks> :) it is all on thier trucks driving around the us
[04:31:29] <cradek> a full circle has to specify XY the same as the starting position
[04:32:05] <cradek> G0 X1 Y1 / G2 X1 Y1 I.5 J0 will make a circle 1" dia around x1.5 y1
[04:33:27] <cradek> oh, he left
[04:33:26] <skunkworks> right
[04:33:28] <skunkworks> yes
[04:33:30] <cradek> oops
[04:33:39] <cradek> oh well
[04:33:59] <skunkworks> I did a quick search for bobcad post options and didn't find anyting
[04:34:44] <cradek> maybe some controllers accept that as-is, I don't know
[04:37:13] <cradek> nice thing about standards is there are so many to choose from
[04:38:56] <ds3> fenn: looked there, thanks.
[04:39:26] <ds3> oh so the I-J notation will let you do full circles? (vs max 180 w/the R notation)
[04:45:22] <Twingy> ok, added emc output for gcam
[04:45:37] <ds3> Hmmmm isn't g76 over defined?, that is, for a given geometry, isn't pitch tied to thread height?
[04:45:50] <ds3> (or does K mean something else)
[04:47:40] <K`zan> webcam to emc?!?!?
[04:47:55] <K`zan> Wow, that would simplify my life :)
[04:50:27] <K`zan> No such luck :-(
[04:51:57] <ds3> oh my U/W notation is not support it seems
[04:55:38] <ds3> guess not since threads are trucated
[04:58:56] <skunkworks> * skunkworks doesn't use R notation for g2/3.
[04:59:31] <K`zan> gcam looks pretty useful!
[05:02:08] <K`zan> looks like it needs fortran...
[05:04:25] <K`zan> ac_nonexistent.h...
[05:05:01] <ds3> R notation is handy when you have circles that end at odd places
[05:11:27] <K`zan> lots of theme packages, but no gtk :-/.
[05:12:30] <K`zan> eventually I guess gcam will be installable or ubuntu will get gtk.
[05:21:04] <fenn> i'm sure ubuntu has gtk
[05:21:44] <fenn> or does it need a certain version?
[05:23:41] <K`zan> fenn: Not sure, need to look at the config.log and see, IIRC > 2.0
[05:24:55] <K`zan> conftest.c:26:21: error: gtk/gtk.h: No such file or directory
[05:24:56] <K`zan> configure:18725: checking for GTK+ - version >= 2.10.0
[05:24:56] <K`zan> configure:18870: result: no
[05:25:13] <K`zan> configure:18948: error: GTK+ 2.10 or higher is required
[05:27:09] <K`zan> Look at it all more tomorrow, kind of too tired to mess with it tonight.
[05:27:24] <K`zan> I know I have that under gentoo, so worst case I can try it there.
[05:32:44] <fenn> i have libgtk2.0-dev version 2.8.20-3
[05:33:10] <fenn> does that make sense?
[05:50:21] <ds3> just dl and compile it
[05:54:29] <K`zan> fenn: Could do that, I am just leary about spreading unremovable things too deeply...
[05:54:55] <K`zan> Wonder why it isn't available through portage (or whatever they call deb package system)?
[05:55:27] <K`zan> Lemme try something here.
[05:56:27] <K`zan> Heh, like a dictionary :-), it helps if you know what to specify :).
[05:57:33] <K`zan> Hauls in 31 other packages with it :).
[06:56:18] <ds3> Hmmmm
[07:01:05] <K`zan> Finally got all the libraries loaded (I think) but make blows out with:
[07:01:10] <K`zan> gui_opengl.c: In function 'set_projection':
[07:01:12] <K`zan> gui_opengl.c:384: error: 'M_PI' undeclared (first use in this function)
[07:01:13] <K`zan> :-/.
[07:01:47] <K`zan> l
[07:17:03] <A-L-P-H-A> gasy. :(
[07:18:48] <tomp_> i came across some video tutorials that may be handy for newbies like me :) (python & blender) http://showmedo.com/videos/python
[07:22:50] <A-L-P-H-A> tomp_, repost that to the emc email list maybe? cradek, jepler, and alex_joni would probably be interested.
[07:47:46] <tomp_> A_L_P_H_A: i came across it looking into vpython, which is even more important, i just used synaptic to get idle & vpython, & now have scriptable 3d , something like what jepler did today but animated, but maybe not cgs like jeplers ( subtract one volume from another to simulate tool cutting workpiece)... but will post
[07:57:18] <alex_joni> morning fellows
[07:57:39] <tomp_> hi alex_joni
[07:58:17] <tomp_> A_L_P_H_A: i had better luck runnning vpython from eric (ide) than from idle (ide)
[07:59:13] <tomp_> alex_joni: regarding jepler's work yesterday, there's some tools 'vpython' available in universe. 3d scriptable scenes with animation
[08:01:31] <tomp_> yowp! 2 am again.... bye bye
[08:01:38] <alex_joni> bubye
[08:02:26] <fenn> moin
[08:02:56] <fenn> vpython.. hmmm
[08:04:05] <fenn> python-visual
[08:15:54] <fenn> those video programming demonstrations are rather painful to watch
[08:30:45] <fenn> woah the ruby on rails video is neat
[08:31:06] <fenn> i think i like ruby
[08:32:05] <fenn> "yeah it goes fast, dont blink"
[08:58:29] <anonimasu> hello
[09:04:26] <fenn> anonimasu: you seen gdepth.py?
[09:04:35] <K`zan> c++ libs didn't help either, oh well :-/.
[09:08:49] <alex_joni> gdepth scares him away :)
[09:17:16] <alex_joni> gdepth scares him away :)
[09:23:40] <K`zan> Night folks!
[09:38:25] <Jymmm> Yo
[09:48:34] <fenn> early or late?
[09:53:48] <Jymmm> 2am here
[09:54:26] <Jymmm> won't get to sleep till 0330
[10:01:37] <alex_joni> hiya Jymmm
[10:01:44] <Jymmm> hey alex
[10:11:06] <Jymmm> alex_joni what's goin on in your neck of the woods?
[10:18:33] <alex_joni> Jymmm: staying busy
[10:22:43] <Jymmm> ah, building a box so I can install MythTV on it.
[10:23:19] <Jymmm> You gotta love it... dl the latest distro, burn it, install it, and upon first boot it says you have 104 updates.
[10:25:29] <alex_joni> buntu?
[10:25:52] <alex_joni> *buntu?
[10:26:15] <Jymmm> ubuntu
[10:26:44] <Jymmm> I'd prefer kubuntu, but it has install "issues"
[10:26:49] <alex_joni> you can always switch later
[10:27:04] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[10:27:12] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[10:27:14] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[10:27:18] <alex_joni> sudo apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
[10:27:37] <Jymmm> I'll uninstall a LOT of things afterwords. Don't need all the overhead for the frontend box
[10:27:47] <alex_joni> I can understand
[10:28:22] <Jymmm> I'm only going to be using the front end as a video jukebox.
[10:30:14] <A-L-P-H-A> boo!
[10:31:14] <alex_joni> there was a linuxvdr project I think
[10:31:23] <A-L-P-H-A> vdf?
[10:31:26] <A-L-P-H-A> vdr?
[10:31:45] <alex_joni> http://linvdr.org/projects/linvdr/index.en.php
[10:32:00] <alex_joni> video disk recorder
[10:32:01] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I'm no doing any recording/ripping, strictly front end... player, menuing, and remote control a la LIRC
[10:32:32] <A-L-P-H-A> aren't those normally called PVRs?
[10:32:41] <A-L-P-H-A> Personal Video Recorders... like tivo
[10:33:16] <A-L-P-H-A> oh, with DVB cards.
[10:42:03] <Jymmm> laters
[11:14:25] <anonimas1> hello
[11:19:22] <A-L-P-H-A> hi
[11:19:28] <A-L-P-H-A> damn hiccups
[11:23:05] <alex_joni> gdepth scares him away :)
[11:23:13] <alex_joni> ah.. didn't work this time :D
[11:23:29] <A-L-P-H-A> ?
[11:23:29] <alex_joni> 11:03 < fenn> anonimasu: you seen gdepth.py?
[11:23:31] <A-L-P-H-A> :)
[11:23:35] <alex_joni> 11:07 -!- anonimasu [[email protected]] has quit [Remote closed the
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> connection]
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> 11:07 -!- anonimasu [[email protected]] has joined #emc
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> 11:08 < alex_joni> gdepth scares him away :)
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> 11:16 -!- anonimas1 [[email protected]] has joined #emc
[11:23:37] <alex_joni> 11:16 < alex_joni> gdepth scares him away :)
[11:23:40] <alex_joni> 11:16 -!- anonimasu [[email protected]] has quit [Remote closed the
[11:23:44] <alex_joni> connection]
[11:26:07] <A-L-P-H-A> timestamps are a funny thing... :)
[11:26:20] <alex_joni> how so?
[11:26:57] <A-L-P-H-A> your 11:16, is not my 11:16.
[11:27:28] <A-L-P-H-A> time is $time
[11:27:30] <A-L-P-H-A> time is 06:27:20
[11:29:38] <alex_joni> close enough
[11:33:47] <anonimas1> anonimas1 is now known as anonimasu
[11:34:03] <anonimasu> fenn: yes
[11:37:15] <A-L-P-H-A> where's Lerneaen?
[11:37:29] <A-L-P-H-A> LARNEAEN_HYDRA where art thou?
[11:37:46] <A-L-P-H-A> for my sniper rilfe needs to in the cross hairs to kill you...
[11:37:58] <A-L-P-H-A> anyone play UT99? Unreal Tournament 1999 that is.
[11:39:32] <anonimasu> heh
[11:39:39] <anonimasu> no shit
[11:39:49] <anonimasu> I thought you meatn 2999
[11:39:49] <anonimasu> meant
[11:41:36] <alex_joni> only UT07
[11:41:50] <anonimasu> :D
[11:42:03] <alex_joni> http://www.tothegame.com/screenshot.asp?id=4257
[11:42:53] <anonimasu> alex_joni: looks like a movie
[11:45:40] <alex_joni> * alex_joni wonders what specs you need for that
[11:53:29] <A-L-P-H-A> lots
[11:53:33] <A-L-P-H-A> and a kick ass vid card.
[11:53:36] <A-L-P-H-A> which I can't afford.
[12:09:08] <anonimasu> ´hehe
[12:16:34] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos!!! Sweet... it cleared customs... should be getting it soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:34:08] <alex_joni> * alex_joni jawns
[13:01:44] <anonimasu> * anonimasu aywns
[13:01:53] <A-L-P-H-A> * A-L-P-H-A puts pooh in their mouths
[13:04:01] <A-L-P-H-A> kyp
[13:04:18] <anonimasu> * anonimasu hits alpha in the head
[13:19:24] <anonimasu> I guess it was a bit hard..
[13:20:08] <alex_joni> don't sweat it :D
[13:25:47] <anonimasu> hehe
[13:27:58] <Dallur> things have really gone downhill since last night, seems you guys are force feeding each other poo.. .... ... ..... ....
[13:38:54] <tomp_> hello
[13:39:00] <Dallur> hey
[13:39:20] <SWPadnos> what?
[13:39:30] <SWPadnos> I mean "hi"
[13:41:05] <alex_joni> ni_
[13:41:10] <alex_joni> ni?
[13:41:21] <SWPadnos> nein. kein ni.
[13:41:34] <Dallur> doch, doch ni !
[13:41:48] <SWPadnos> nicht sprache ni!
[13:55:20] <tomp_> may be useful for those wanting to try 3D anim in python http://www.vpython.org/ in universe
[13:55:32] <tomp_> another but a vnc video http://showmedo.com/videos/python
[13:55:45] <tomp_> and how to make vnc videos as tutorials http://showmedo.com/videos/video?name=UsingVNC2SWFpy&fromSeriesID=10
[14:08:40] <SWPadnos> when does he nitoce that he misspelled "finished"? :)
[14:08:48] <SWPadnos> notice (oops)
[14:20:47] <Guest291> hey all, circle with flat edge problem here, can anyone help out?
[14:21:40] <alex_joni> Guest291: if you extend that a bit :)
[14:22:08] <Guest291> backplot shows a circle, when i run the code it draws a circle with flat edges
[14:25:06] <awallin> if you run it slower, does the shape change?
[14:26:58] <Guest291> will try it
[14:27:58] <awallin> I'm assuming that this is emc 2.0.5 and you've modified the ini file for some reasonable speed and acceleration settings
[14:31:11] <jepler> have you ruled out backlash as the cause?
[14:41:58] <Guest291> yep modified the ini, backlash comp is on 0.0034 now only flat sopts on the sides
[14:51:30] <Guest291> anyone ?
[14:51:43] <jepler> I still believe it's backlash
[14:52:08] <awallin> can you take a picture of what it looks like?
[14:53:01] <Guest291> i dialed in my backlash with a dial, imagine a donught thats been in a small box :)
[14:53:37] <awallin> how big is the circle and how long are the line segments?
[14:53:56] <awallin> this is programmed with G2 or G3, not a CAM program that outputs a lot of G1s ?
[14:54:34] <Guest291> circle is 1" dia arcs are about 0.25 the rest flat
[14:55:06] <Guest291> N4 G03 X0. Y1. I-1. J0.F30
[14:55:27] <Guest291> N5 X-1. Y0. I0. J-1. ... etc split into 4 segments
[14:55:37] <alex_joni> bbl
[14:55:47] <awallin> do you have G64PX.XX at the top?
[14:55:57] <Guest291> nope
[14:56:06] <Guest291> whats that one?
[14:56:16] <awallin> that will set a tolerance for the blending, try G64P0.01
[14:56:31] <awallin> i.e. stay within 0.01 of programmed path at all times
[14:56:33] <cradek> also tell us about your machine, what are the leadscrews and nuts? what are your acceleration and velocity settings?
[14:57:29] <cradek> are you using AXIS gui? if so you will be able to see how close the red and white lines are, which would rule out a software setting
[14:57:53] <jepler> you might also try doing a single 360-degree circle, to eliminate the joins between different motions as a cause.
[14:58:06] <cradek> another good idea
[14:58:27] <SWPadnos> stepper or servo ...
[14:58:36] <cradek> g0x1y0 / g3x1y0i-1j0
[14:58:37] <Guest291> steppers
[14:58:55] <Guest291> nope can't run axis going through vnc
[14:59:12] <SWPadnos> strange. it works under Cygwin for me ...
[14:59:19] <Guest291> if i export a full cirle my preprocessor doesn't snap in the coordinates
[14:59:30] <cradek> just write it by hand and test
[14:59:32] <Guest291> cygwin using an xclient right?
[14:59:41] <SWPadnos> cygwin is an X client on Windows
[14:59:56] <cradek> SWPadnos: vnc is based on xfree86 3, which does not have opengl in the xserver
[15:00:33] <SWPadnos> ah, ok
[15:00:52] <jepler> ooh http://xf4vnc.sourceforge.net/
[15:00:57] <jepler> xf4vnc provides two implementations of VNC in an Xserver. Both implementations are built around XFree86(tm) 4.x which provides numerous new extensions, such as RENDER and GLX.
[15:01:03] <jepler> * All features from tightVNC 1.2.9 included,
[15:01:19] <jepler> I wonder if it's stable/working
[15:01:23] <cradek> I sit corrected
[15:02:22] <Guest291> ok g64 continous gives flat sides
[15:04:41] <awallin> you probably need to pastebin your g-code and your ini file for anyone to have something smart to comment...
[15:05:22] <Guest291> ok how do i do that?
[15:05:35] <cradek> or do the things people already suggested
[15:05:55] <SWPadnos> http://pastebin.ca/
[15:05:59] <Guest291> i tried g64
[15:06:30] <awallin> G64P0.01 will set the tolerance, G64 by itself is not good if you have low acceleration values
[15:06:50] <Guest291> did g64o0.001
[15:07:02] <Guest291> oups thats supposed to be a p
[15:07:30] <Guest291> does emc take backlash setting into consideration on doing a circle?
[15:08:01] <awallin> yes it should, but you could try running your code with all backlash set to zero
[15:08:23] <cradek> what emc version are you using?
[15:08:48] <Guest291> neat http://pastebin.ca/325708
[15:09:37] <Guest291> 2.0.3
[15:10:02] <cradek> your X acceleration is 1, but Y and Z are 20
[15:10:29] <cradek> is that really what you meant? is X underpowered?
[15:11:01] <awallin> VEL and ACC values in [TRAJ] should be set lower than VEL/ACC in [AXIS_N]
[15:11:10] <cradek> that's not true
[15:11:14] <SWPadnos> awallin, not necessarily
[15:11:37] <Guest291> nope
[15:11:38] <SWPadnos> the vel/accel in TRAJ are vector sums of individual axis vel/accels
[15:11:40] <awallin> ok, so sqrt(vx^2 + vy^2 + vz^2) ?
[15:11:44] <cradek> usually they should be higher, since TRAJ limits in every direction, even diagonals, which can go faster
[15:12:25] <awallin> which would be sqrt(3)*v if all vs are equal?
[15:12:34] <cradek> yes
[15:12:35] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:12:42] <skunkworks> Guest291: what do you have for leadscrews and nuts?
[15:12:43] <Guest291> gonna go though my config again
[15:12:47] <awallin> so I'm only off by 1.7...
[15:12:58] <Guest291> it's a sherline mill, I'm running 196oz steppers on it
[15:13:19] <cradek> are those the steppers they sell with it?
[15:13:23] <Guest291> nope
[15:13:27] <cradek> ah
[15:13:32] <SWPadnos> awallin, heh. "within an order of magnitude"
[15:13:39] <cradek> ok then, I was surprised you had those going 60ipm :-)
[15:13:42] <Guest291> lol
[15:13:48] <Guest291> 75 is my top
[15:14:02] <Guest291> then they start stalling
[15:14:05] <SWPadnos> 72 actually
[15:14:28] <skunkworks> how long is the flat spot?
[15:14:29] <SWPadnos> (in the individual axis sections - only 60 in TRAJ)
[15:15:01] <skunkworks> (should be able to calculate the actual backlash from that if you know the circle and cutter diameter - shouldn
[15:15:07] <skunkworks> shouldn't you?
[15:15:31] <SWPadnos> sin(x) ~= x for very small x, so it
[15:15:33] <Guest291> well i did backlash with a dial gauge ...
[15:15:42] <SWPadnos> it's not any easier to measure it that way
[15:16:09] <skunkworks> right - but he can compare it to what the dial said.
[15:16:43] <SWPadnos> true. though the 0.0034 backlash should be a little bit hard to measure on the circle ;)
[15:17:07] <skunkworks> sounds like it is pretty big though from the description.
[15:17:32] <SWPadnos> yep - I got that impression as well
[15:17:55] <Guest291> flat sport is allmost 1/2"
[15:18:12] <SWPadnos> on a 1" circle?
[15:18:13] <Guest291> more like a square with a round bottom and top
[15:18:19] <Guest291> yeppers
[15:18:27] <SWPadnos> how wide is it across the flats?
[15:18:46] <Guest291> let me get the piece out and measure
[15:19:08] <cradek> by the way you should really run the update to 2.0.5 - I promise it won't break anything, and it fixes a few bugs
[15:19:35] <Guest291> x=0.73 y=0.855
[15:19:48] <SWPadnos> what size cutter?
[15:19:50] <Guest291> right now trying to setup cygwin
[15:19:51] <Guest291> 1/8
[15:20:06] <SWPadnos> and no G41/G42?
[15:20:10] <Guest291> flatspot 0.546
[15:20:27] <cradek> http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/debian/changelog?rev=1.5.2.11;only_with_tag=v2_0_branch
[15:20:34] <Guest291> nope no g41/42
[15:23:42] <SWPadnos> try replacing lines N4 and N5 with a single line: N4 g03 x-1 y0 I-1 J0 F30
[15:24:21] <SWPadnos> hmmm - no, do that on lines N5 and N6
[15:24:26] <Guest291> leave lines 6 & 7?
[15:24:52] <SWPadnos> so leave N4 alone, and make N5 X0 Y-1 I- J-1
[15:24:59] <SWPadnos> and remove N6
[15:25:15] <SWPadnos> oops - there should be a1 after that I: I-1
[15:25:33] <SWPadnos> argh - man, I need more coffee :)
[15:26:05] <SWPadnos> ok, N5 X0 Y-1 I0 J-1
[15:27:19] <SWPadnos> that should just do one 180 degree arc that goes across the X direction reversal (which is the problematic one)
[15:27:54] <Guest291> x is still flat
[15:28:14] <SWPadnos> I'd fix the accel as well
[15:28:54] <skunkworks> have you tried it without backlash?
[15:29:13] <SWPadnos> also at slower speeds, like F5 or something
[15:29:24] <Guest291> do you have to restart emc on ini changes?
[15:29:25] <SWPadnos> err - F2 even
[15:29:29] <SWPadnos> yes
[15:29:45] <cradek> that accel is VERY low and might actually be the whole cause
[15:30:09] <cradek> I think arcs use the same (lowest) accel of any axis which has arc motion
[15:30:29] <skunkworks> but wouldn't g64p.001 fix that?
[15:30:57] <cradek> I think it should, but then you're going to virtually get stops at the quadrants, which will mess up the part too
[15:33:05] <skunkworks> not seeing it. (doesn't take much though)
[15:34:51] <Guest291> still flat
[15:36:50] <cradek> paste your ini again please
[15:36:56] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: earlier change accidentally modifed DTG default
[15:38:27] <Guest291> http://pastebin.ca/325734
[15:40:10] <cradek> now your acceleration is 1 on both X and Y. Try 20 instead
[15:40:29] <Guest291> k, got axis running atleast :)
[15:40:36] <cradek> great
[15:41:16] <cradek> at these settings it will take an entire second to get up to full speed, then another second to stop. Your motors can do much better than that!
[15:43:33] <cradek> although even at these wrong settings I get excellent path following (because of N0 G64 P0.001)
[15:44:18] <tomp_> join #ftir
[15:46:31] <Guest291> ok will try that, gotta run off to work, thangs again will keep plugging at it and re-read the ini docs :)
[15:46:54] <tomp_> awallin: there's a bug in that tooltip, the extra window doesnt get destroyed on exit
[15:47:01] <Guest291> oh one last thing couldn't find anyware to set the step pulse duration?
[15:47:02] <cradek> ok, later Guest291
[15:47:19] <cradek> Guest291: you can find that in the hal documentation, or with 'halcmd show param'
[15:49:10] <awallin> tomp_: oh, ok, I haven't had time to look at it yet - probably won't ahve until the weekend
[16:21:11] <tomp_> awallin: a better dial widget http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbYLzsqJP0E :) the future was here yesterday!
[16:22:40] <awallin> there was one a while ago where they sorted images etc. very cool
[16:23:29] <awallin> here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89sz8ExZndc I want one!
[16:32:58] <cradek> http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/01/22/builds-giant-television-tube/
[16:43:00] <SWPadnos> holy crap. I want one too!
[16:43:14] <alex_joni> bet that beats the crap out of your 9MP displays
[16:43:53] <SWPadnos> not really :)
[16:44:01] <SWPadnos> but it does have touch input ;)
[16:44:15] <alex_joni> ahh.. thought you mean the one chris posted
[16:44:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[16:47:08] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/.cvsignore: ignore autogenerated stuff related to quickstart
[16:47:08] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/docs/html/.cvsignore: ignore autogenerated stuff related to quickstart
[16:48:32] <cradek> jepler says their method for zooming on that screen reminds him of goatse
[16:48:41] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/bin/.cvsignore: ignore debuglevel and pyvcp
[16:48:43] <SWPadnos> I don't want to know
[16:48:44] <alex_joni> ROFL
[16:49:04] <alex_joni> it might be interesting to try to zoom on that particular image
[16:49:12] <cradek> argh
[16:49:17] <SWPadnos> hmmm. nope, mot really
[16:49:21] <SWPadnos> s/mot/not/
[16:49:30] <alex_joni> well.. right
[16:50:23] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/.cvsignore: ignore index.db
[16:52:33] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man9/.cvsignore: more silencing
[16:55:17] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/.cvsignore: more silencing
[16:55:17] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/src/quickstart/.cvsignore: more silencing
[17:21:28] <eholmgren> I got offered a coldfusion dev job at work
[17:21:35] <eholmgren> cfml is _fugly_
[17:29:29] <awallin> Dallur: are you there? I found the relational geometry paper if you want it
[17:30:57] <Dallur> awallin: yup,im here, I would really like to see it :D
[17:32:54] <awallin> Dallur: can you send me your email adr? (private msg)
[17:34:48] <Dallur> got it, thanks
[17:37:40] <Dallur> awallin: good paper, makes perfect sense
[17:38:13] <awallin> Dallur: www.aerohydro.com might have a trial version of MultiSurf that you can download and try out if you want
[17:38:24] <awallin> the tutorials are good, you 'get' the idea pretty quickly
[17:39:29] <awallin> http://www.aerohydro.com/tutorials.htm
[17:40:00] <awallin> in my dreams, an open source version of multisurf would be a nice platform for further CAM work
[17:41:36] <Dallur> awallin: I'm just surprised that applications like blender don't use this sort of model, I honestly don't see any problems, only benefits
[17:42:08] <awallin> if we could setup an environment that everyone agrees on, then everyone would benefit from the collaboration
[17:42:27] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/.cvsignore: ignore generated comp.py
[17:42:40] <CIA-8> 03jepler 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/axis/scripts/axis.py: merge rev 1.46: fix [DISPLAY]INCREMENTS
[17:43:29] <awallin> the question is just to find all the required components that everyone can agree on (python/C/C++ ?, OpenGL/VTK/OpenCascade?, Tkinter,wxwidgets,GTK?) etc. etc. multiplatform, or both WinXP and linux, would be nice.
[17:43:34] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/.cvsignore: ignore generated .h files
[17:47:27] <Dallur> awallin: C or C++ is almost a requirement because I don't think anything else can even come close performance wise, but It might be feasible to only write sub-routines in C and do the rest in Python
[17:53:13] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/.cvsignore: ignore copied emc.nml
[17:54:44] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_sim_cl/.cvsignore: ignore copied emc.nml, core_stepper.hal
[17:55:06] <awallin> Dallur: right. I was trying to get a c++ compiler on WinXP to work yesterday, wxDev-C++, but it wasn't trivial to get the OpenGL examples to compile
[17:55:40] <awallin> Dallur: wxwidgets for UI has the benefit that it is cross platform
[17:55:51] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/lathe-pluto/.cvsignore: ignore copied emc.nml
[17:56:48] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/dallur-thc/dallur-advanced.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_mazak/demo_mazak.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:49] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_sim_cl/demo_sim_cl.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:50] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/demo_step_cl/demo_step_cl.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:50] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/halui_halvcp/halui.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/hexapod-sim/minitetra.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:52] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/m5i20/m5i20.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:54] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/max/max.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/motenc/motenc.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:56:58] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/sim/ (servo_sim.ini tkemc.ini tripod.ini xemc.ini): fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:01] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/ppmc/ppmc.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:03] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper-xyza/inch.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:05] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stepper/ (stepper_inch.ini stepper_mm.ini): fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:10] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univstep/univstep.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:14] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/univpwm/univpwm.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:16] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/stg/stg.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[17:57:16] <CIA-8> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/configs/vti/vti.ini: fix location of tkemc/xemc help files
[18:00:33] <Dallur> awallin: For now I think I will try to create a complete geometric hierarchy, if certain functions turn out to be to slow they should be easily replaced by C/C++ code
[18:01:37] <Dallur> I want to take a minimalist approach and just define the types required to represent any object, however it's not very efficient to define a circle as a NURBS curve and simpler representations should be added later
[18:02:28] <awallin> Dallur: ok, keep us posted on what you do!
[18:03:29] <Dallur> brb, getting good
[18:03:35] <Dallur> errr s/good/food/g
[18:04:03] <alex_joni> bad == no food
[18:04:42] <SWPLinux> s/good/good food/
[18:05:25] <SWPLinux> Dallur: here's a page on profiling python code, with some steps for getting adequate performance: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/12/15/profiling.html
[18:37:09] <SWPLinux> jepler_: do you have a version of psyco on your 64-bit install?
[19:13:14] <jepler_> SWPLinux: no.
[19:14:03] <SWPLinux> ah ok. I was trying to see how it would do on gdepth, but psyco isn't available (packaged) for 64-bit
[19:14:23] <SWPLinux> in fact, it's x86 only, but I figured it might work anyway
[19:17:34] <jepler_> SWPLinux: try gdepth 0.2, it has its own speedup module which does work on 64-bit systems
[19:17:52] <SWPLinux> ok. is it at the same place?
[19:18:42] <SWPLinux> using hotspot, I saw that triangle() takes most of the time (with make_list() a relatively distant second)
[19:19:30] <SWPLinux> of course, I somehow managed to screw it up so it only shows the +,+ quadrant ...
[19:20:14] <jepler_> SWPLinux: http://axis.unpy.net/index.cgi/01169521961
[19:22:16] <jepler_> SWPLinux: I didn't hotspot it, but it is the "triangles" stp that takes the most wall time
[19:22:48] <SWPLinux> yep. 19.3 seconds, of ~25 total
[19:22:51] <SWPLinux> (on spiral)
[19:29:51] <jepler_> on my system, callgrind shows 50% of the cycles are inside nvidia's libGLcore
[19:30:09] <jepler_> _gdepth.c:triangle accounts for only 85M cycles out of 3G
[19:30:13] <SWPLinux> callgrind? ...
[19:30:22] <jepler_> valgrind-based profiler
[19:30:41] <SWPLinux> ok. gdepth0.2 is much faster
[19:30:50] <SWPLinux> all we nede now is a multi-threaded version ;)
[19:32:01] <jepler_> I don't really see anything about _gdepth.c:triangle that can be optimized
[19:32:50] <cradek> hello frank!
[19:32:55] <alex_joni> hi frank
[19:32:55] <cradek> thank you for your fix in AXIS
[19:33:06] <jepler_> fjungclaus: yes, thank you for fixing that. I appreciate it.
[19:34:07] <fjungclaus> Hi! Good evening to all ...
[19:34:44] <jepler_> SWPLinux: on my system this gives 4s user 8s wall: time python2.4 gdepth.py -t .25 -x "-2 2" -y "-2 2" -z " -.3 .05" ../emc2/nc_files/spiral.ngc
[19:35:28] <fjungclaus> I'm still fighting with the setup of chatzilla ... so give me some time and some more join&leave-cycles :-))
[19:35:46] <alex_joni> fjungclaus: that's ok :D
[19:35:58] <cradek> I think SWPLinux uses that too - so we're used to his join&leave cycles
[19:36:08] <jepler_> SWPLinux: just doing the calculation part is about 1.6 seconds (the -d flag except that doesn't work in 0.2)
[19:36:29] <rayh> I've got it running here also.
[19:37:03] <SWPLinux> hard to tell, since the time includes how long you view the result
[19:37:10] <SWPLinux> but it's a lot speedier
[19:37:39] <fjungclaus> Hi, Alex. I've been away from emc for nearly a year, but you've very actively supported the emc-users @ peter's cnc-ecke, as I've seen!
[19:37:41] <SWPLinux> (like real 3.63 / user 2.37 seconds)
[19:38:28] <alex_joni> fjungclaus: we all do out part
[19:38:45] <jepler_> SWPLinux: if you hit the window close button it'll exit right after preparing the display list
[19:38:50] <SWPLinux> ah - o
[19:38:53] <SWPLinux> k
[19:38:59] <fjungclaus> @Jeff: "I appreciate it": Does that mean the patch is working? :-)
[19:39:11] <SWPLinux> 2.832 / 2.128 in that case
[19:39:22] <jepler_> fjungclaus: yes, it worked for me too
[19:42:13] <jepler_> SWPLinux: in gdepth.py on the line with getopt.get add "d" to the end of the string. then run with -d on the commandline
[19:42:58] <jepler_> SWPLinux: this will tell me what fraction of the time is spent in each phase (calculation & display list creation) on your machine
[19:43:16] <SWPLinux> ah. ok
[19:43:17] <jepler_> SWPLinux: I had the impression last night that it was maybe 1:4 on my athlon64, but it seems to be more like 1:1 on this machine (with a slightly different version of _gdepth.c)
[19:43:23] <alex_joni> fjungclaus: try /msg it works better
[19:44:55] <SWPLinux> real: 0.691, user: 0.632, sys: 0.060
[19:45:52] <jepler_> SWPLinux: so 1/3 calculation and 2/3 display list creation
[19:46:09] <SWPLinux> closer to 1/4
[19:46:31] <SWPLinux> err - unless you're using the "user" numbers ...
[19:46:54] <jepler_> yes, "user" is CPU time, "real" is wall time
[19:47:13] <SWPLinux> user+sys seems to jive well with wall
[19:47:29] <SWPLinux> though not always, as I can see in a different run
[19:49:59] <jepler_> is this version any faster? http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/_gdepth.c
[19:51:00] <SWPLinux> 404
[19:51:19] <jepler_> oopsargh
[19:51:48] <jepler_> it won't serve files with a leading underscore,
[19:51:58] <jepler_> http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/underscore_gdepth.c (rename before using)
[19:52:54] <SWPLinux> heh
[19:54:03] <jepler_> jepler_ is now known as jepler
[19:54:05] <SWPLinux> slightly better: 0.666 / 0.604 / 0.064
[19:54:38] <jepler> this was an optimization of the display list creation step -- remove -d from your commandline again
[19:55:23] <SWPLinux> 2.635 / 2.016 - still a little better
[20:13:00] <K`zan> Morning folks!
[20:13:06] <jepler> hi K`zan
[20:13:14] <jepler> were you trying to get gcam to work on ubuntu dapper?
[20:13:44] <K`zan> Yes, and it won't compile under either ubuntu nor gentoo :-(, same error both places :-(.
[20:14:00] <jepler> this makes gcam compile with gtk+2.8: http://emergent.unpy.net/files/sandbox/gcam-2007.01.09+dapper.patch
[20:14:20] <K`zan> Ah, edgy here, does that matter?
[20:14:33] <jepler> was the error that you didn't have the right version of gtk+?
[20:14:38] <jepler> if so this patch will probably work for you too
[20:14:57] <K`zan> No, finally tracked down the needed stuff for that, hold a sec, lemme grab it.
[20:15:43] <jepler> that patch also fixes an error about M_PI being undefined
[20:15:49] <jepler> those are the two problems I ran into compiling gcam on dapper
[20:16:18] <K`zan> That was the one :-o:gui_opengl.c: In function 'set_projection':
[20:16:18] <K`zan> gui_opengl.c:384: error: 'M_PI' undeclared (first use in this function)
[20:17:16] <K`zan> v fixpatch
[20:18:02] <K`zan> Lemme see what it takes to apply that...
[20:18:05] <K`zan> :wq
[20:18:35] <jepler> patch -p1 (or maybe -p0) < gcam*dapper.patch
[20:19:46] <K`zan> p1 :-) worked.
[20:19:56] <K`zan> lemme give it a shot! Thanks!!!!!!!!!
[20:21:11] <K`zan> worked! Lemee see if I have to make install..
[20:23:19] <K`zan> Comes up! Coool. Verrry Coool :-). Many thanks. Now to figure out what to do with it :-). Will see if I can make the tool holder part for the QCTP :).
[20:25:07] <jepler> best of luck
[20:25:25] <alex_joni> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QhOBhI-bpk
[20:26:40] <K`zan> Heh... Just how many years do we have accurate climate data for?
[20:27:11] <SWPLinux> the Royal Observatory has been keeping track of some things (like temperatures) since 1659
[20:27:32] <K`zan> I still don't buy it...
[20:27:41] <SWPLinux> and polar ice cores give data going back ~650000 years
[20:27:46] <lerneaen_hydra> 'lo
[20:28:09] <K`zan> Much talk about ice pack melting, but not a word about the areas where it is thickening...
[20:28:25] <K`zan> "Insufficent data" and emotion is not data :).
[20:28:29] <SWPLinux> on a climatological scale, there aren't any areas of thickening
[20:28:38] <K`zan> Err, yes, there indeed are.
[20:28:44] <SWPLinux> rwmwmber - "weather" isn't the same as "climate"
[20:28:51] <SWPLinux> remember, that is
[20:29:03] <K`zan> Yep, quite well aware of that, something gory misses completely.
[20:29:08] <Martin_Lundstrom> intersting conversation
[20:29:31] <K`zan> LOL, usually here. Funny we get discussions here rather than emotional ranting, quite refreshing.
[20:29:43] <Martin_Lundstrom> :)
[20:29:54] <K`zan> My climate requires COFFEE, bbiaf :-).
[20:30:29] <lerneaen_hydra> what, too much water in your caffeine system?
[20:31:16] <alex_joni> too much blood
[20:31:29] <lerneaen_hydra> blood ~ water
[20:31:41] <lerneaen_hydra> some other odds and ends
[20:31:50] <SWPLinux> blood is thicker than water (expecially if you're high in iron)
[20:32:03] <lerneaen_hydra> still the main component is water
[20:32:29] <lerneaen_hydra> of course you've got various organic compounds (like haemoglobin)
[20:32:38] <alex_joni> well.. it is the main component of the human body :)
[20:33:53] <SWPLinux> yewah - all you have to do is watch that Star Trek spisode, and you'll know all about it
[20:34:06] <alex_joni> haha
[20:34:08] <lerneaen_hydra> huh?
[20:34:26] <cradek> uh-oh, one of us doesn't know his star trek
[20:34:31] <lerneaen_hydra> oh, wait
[20:34:30] <SWPLinux> shame
[20:34:31] <alex_joni> SWPLinux: no real treckies around here
[20:34:50] <lerneaen_hydra> the one where they went to the "primitive planet" where iron was toxic?
[20:34:59] <SWPLinux> no
[20:35:25] <Dallur> sounds like something from the original series (shrug)
[20:35:48] <cradek> some crystal? alien thing called the humanoids "ugly bags of mostly water"
[20:35:49] <lerneaen_hydra> becuase it's oh so likely that a planet will be nearly deviod of the atom with the lowest atomic energy
[20:35:55] <lerneaen_hydra> haha
[20:36:00] <Dallur> LH: right on
[20:36:12] <SWPLinux> it's the TOS episode where several people get turned into little polyhedrons of minerals
[20:36:17] <SWPLinux> "the other 2%"
[20:36:48] <lerneaen_hydra> uh wtf
[20:36:57] <lerneaen_hydra> and let me guess, they're back to normal by the end of the ep?
[20:37:32] <SWPLinux> only the main character that was affected ;) the others were "red-shirts"
[20:37:38] <cradek> they used the uh ... transporter to ... rehydrate them
[20:37:54] <cradek> no wait, that's the other half of the episodes
[20:38:02] <SWPLinux> no, they reversed the alien [TECH] device to put them back
[20:38:01] <cradek> man those were pretty bad weren't they
[20:38:24] <alex_joni> they used a phaser to capture the humidity from the planets atmosphere
[20:38:26] <alex_joni> somehow
[20:38:36] <SWPLinux> I just saw one of the fan-made "Star Trek - The Continuing Voyages" episodes in a movie theater
[20:38:39] <Dallur> Anything with William Shatner in spandex and high heels can't be good !
[20:38:41] <cradek> tractor beam
[20:38:47] <SWPLinux> it had better production value than TOS
[20:38:52] <lerneaen_hydra> Dallur; haha
[20:43:05] <Jymmmm> Which would cause less latency ya think: 700MHz w/ 512K cache -OR- 1000MHz w/ 256K cache ???
[20:43:19] <SWPLinux> same processor family?
[20:43:34] <Jymmmm> yeah P3
[20:43:47] <SWPLinux> hmmm. is one a celeron?
[20:44:06] <Jymmmm> I don't think so, both "should" be full P3
[20:44:25] <SWPLinux> ok. bus speed?
[20:44:30] <jepler> what's your target BASE_PERIOD? Either is likely to be fine for 20us
[20:45:02] <Jymmmm> No idea on the buss speed. But with the 700MHz I can get 18000
[20:45:16] <lerneaen_hydra> I have a PIII that I ran at 20k, but upped to 25k becuase I wanted better non-rt performance
[20:45:28] <SWPLinux> well, try the 1GHz one and tell us which was better ... :)
[20:46:28] <Jymmmm> SWPLinux Ok, fair enough. I just had ALL the systems torn apart atm and going Hmmmmm, what if I..... =)
[20:46:49] <SWPLinux> if the bus speed is the same, then I'll bet on the 1 GHz one, but not by much
[20:47:15] <SWPLinux> it depends on the chipsets as well. if you have the time, try swapping CPUs and see what happens
[20:47:18] <Jymmmm> Same mobo, just swapping CPU's is all
[20:47:24] <SWPLinux> ok :)
[20:47:42] <Jymmmm> Oh Slot1, so they HAVE to be P3, right?
[20:48:02] <SWPLinux> wasn't the P2 available in some slot thingie?
[20:48:34] <Jymmmm> Maybe, but these say Pentium III on them. But not sure of "celeron" was available in Slot1
[20:49:37] <ds3> Slot1 can be either a PII or a PIII processor
[20:50:06] <Jymmmm> Well, I'll play later with it as I'm not ready anyway. Working right now to build up the front end MythTV box.
[20:50:09] <ds3> PII are <500MHz, PIII > 500MHz; you can adapt a Socket370 to a slot1 board
[20:51:21] <Jymmmm> I just using what I have on hand, no need to buy when you have shitloads of systems laying aorund.
[20:51:39] <ds3> sounds like me
[20:52:20] <Jymmmm> I bought nine system from work for $6 for the whole lot.
[20:52:54] <Jymmmm> stripped 4, and brought home 5
[20:53:13] <Jymmmm> 3 dual cpu systems
[20:53:27] <ds3> they were disposing of a pile of dual CPU systems at work
[20:53:42] <ds3> so I got a lifetime supply of dual PIII's and dual athlons
[20:54:03] <Jymmmm> I just need some pc100/133 512MB ram though.
[20:54:13] <Jymmmm> ds3 that works =)
[20:54:23] <ds3> regular or registered?
[20:54:35] <Jymmmm> not sure, I think regular.
[20:54:42] <Jymmmm> (I'd have to look it up)
[20:54:48] <ds3> my boards had all registered memory :/
[20:55:10] <ds3> anyone need some PIII 550's?
[20:55:11] <Jymmmm> I have a stack of 256, but need 512's to max out the mobo.
[20:55:15] <ds3> =)
[20:55:21] <ds3> oh
[20:55:28] <ds3> n/m i only have 128's
[20:55:58] <Jymmmm> bummer, I'll probably toss a barter ad up on CL down the road.
[20:57:22] <ds3> even got a bunch of serial to LCD display modules and serial to EL display modules
[20:59:42] <Jymmmm> ds3 Yeah? what kind/size? 2x16?
[21:00:26] <ds3> 2x16 on the LCD; 4xsomething on the EL
[21:00:47] <Jymmmm> I have one Indigo Blue EL 2x16 I was thinking of putting on the front end MythTV box
[21:01:25] <ds3> 2x16 seem small
[21:01:31] <alex_joni> EL ?
[21:01:39] <Jymmmm> EL == Elctro Luminesant
[21:01:48] <alex_joni> the blue type?
[21:01:50] <Jymmmm> alex_joni that purrty glow
[21:01:55] <ds3> HSC had some miniATX cases a while ago that have built in 2x16 backlit LCDs except I donno the pin out
[21:02:27] <ds3> oops.. maybe not EL... more like vaccumm flourescent (?)
[21:02:31] <Jymmmm> ew
[21:02:35] <ds3> let me double check which is which
[21:03:08] <Jymmmm> this is EL http://www.gpegint.com/images/alpha/2x16.jpg
[21:04:12] <alex_joni> Jymmmm: thanks
[21:04:18] <ds3> Oh... I have a ton of these and just a few vacuum displays
[21:04:20] <alex_joni> I need one in 2x40
[21:04:22] <Jymmmm> alex_joni EL is kinda being repalced today with LED's instead as then they don't need the 10KV inverter
[21:04:25] <ds3> i like the vacuum displays
[21:04:33] <alex_joni> the led type
[21:04:50] <ds3> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_fluorescent_display <--- got these in 4xsomething..maybe 4x20
[21:05:15] <Jymmmm> ds3 Yeah, *I* think those are icky =)
[21:05:35] <ds3> okay
[21:05:42] <ds3> i like them cuz they are brighter
[21:06:10] <Jymmmm> Oh, I understand. They just have a fixed character display most of the time.
[21:07:01] <ds3> yep
[21:09:01] <SWPLinux> ha - found it: http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TOS/episode/68760.html
[21:10:25] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[21:11:54] <SWPLinux> weird
[21:12:20] <SWPLinux> I wonder why one machine would lose its connection while another one (on the same switch) wouldn't
[21:13:46] <alex_joni> it's a matter of timeout
[21:13:56] <alex_joni> they can't get packages at the same time
[21:14:29] <alex_joni> (during normal IRC operations)
[21:14:54] <SWPLinux> could be OS as well ...
[21:15:27] <Jymmmm> Anyone need a 486SX35 cpu?
[21:15:47] <cradek> I think there was no such beast
[21:16:02] <cradek> and, no :-)
[21:16:31] <cradek> if you glue on a handle, it would make a nice brush for your cat or dog
[21:19:47] <alex_joni> cat probably
[21:20:03] <alex_joni> the pins are too short for a dog
[21:21:13] <fenn> give it 24V it'll make a nice coffee warmer
[21:21:52] <cradek> http://www.englishrussia.com/?p=541
[21:24:21] <alex_joni> nice
[21:26:07] <cradek> I don't understand the router on the CDs
[21:26:52] <SWPLinux> I think it's just a materials/tools shot
[21:28:47] <cradek> ok that makes sense
[21:29:25] <alex_joni> http://englishrussia.com/?p=591#more-591
[21:29:36] <K`zan> fenn: Segfaulted out when I selected a line to draw :-(.
[21:29:40] <alex_joni> that's nicer
[21:29:49] <alex_joni> K`zan: you're not supposed to do that
[21:30:26] <K`zan> erre that was for jepler :-)
[21:30:41] <K`zan> Heh, I think that is what gcam is for :-)
[21:30:50] <alex_joni> you think, but it's not
[21:30:53] <alex_joni> :D
[21:31:30] <K`zan> LOL, between my budget and what is available in that department, I think I just need to learn gcode and be done with it.
[21:33:07] <K`zan> yep, consistent, oh well :-/.
[21:43:40] <fenn> that's the problem with C
[21:47:51] <anonimasu> going hm
[21:54:36] <K`zan> Will keep an eye on it for updates, most recent is 01/07.
[21:55:02] <anonimasu> K`zan: how's stuff going?
[21:55:22] <K`zan> Nothing really happening ATM, was messing with gcam...
[21:55:31] <anonimasu> K`zan: does it work?
[21:55:41] <K`zan> Re-thinking what/how to do again :-).
[21:56:05] <anonimasu> did you see any of the 5 axis movies yesterday?
[21:56:10] <K`zan> Nope, segfaults out if you select a line to draw. Just started trying it - got lots to learn :).
[21:56:20] <anonimasu> :/
[21:56:24] <K`zan> saw something on that, frugging AMAZING!
[21:56:29] <K`zan> ENVY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[21:56:34] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:56:38] <anonimasu> I need to watch again..
[21:56:43] <K`zan> HEAVY ENVY :-)..........
[21:56:56] <K`zan> Almost makes me want to toss the uMill in the trash :).
[21:57:19] <anonimasu> I could fit a 4th axis :D and 5th.. on my machine
[21:57:22] <anonimasu> but the work %"!
[21:57:32] <K`zan> And expense :-/.
[21:57:39] <anonimasu> im so amazed at the contouring
[21:57:51] <K`zan> And me still with an almost stock uMill :-(...
[21:57:59] <anonimasu> hm, I dont think it would be _that_ expensive
[21:58:03] <K`zan> Yes, it was really ****amazing****!
[21:58:14] <anonimasu> my spindle is homebrew anyway
[21:58:16] <K`zan> Heh, for me it would be.
[21:58:34] <K`zan> Gonna be at LEAST 6 months before I get a 3 axis going :-/.
[21:58:41] <anonimasu> 6 months?
[21:58:43] <anonimasu> :/
[21:58:54] <K`zan> Still, a manual uMill is better than no mill at all, by a LOT :-).
[21:59:03] <anonimasu> yeah
[21:59:12] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6442965485163123253&q=5+axis
[21:59:18] <K`zan> Yeah, budget, looking at getting out of scabattle and out of apartment into a house.
[21:59:21] <fenn> K`zan: really now, get some busted HP inkjet printers and steal the servos out of them
[21:59:27] <anonimasu> fsckers¤#"!
[21:59:27] <anonimasu> I hate that machine
[21:59:41] <anonimasu> fenn is right
[21:59:45] <fenn> no need to wait 6 months to save money for something you dont need (geckos and oversized steppers)
[21:59:45] <anonimasu> and build the H bridges yourself
[21:59:48] <K`zan> Not sure those would drive the umill, conventional wisdom says at VERY least 200 in/oz///
[21:59:53] <anonimasu> bah.
[21:59:54] <fenn> steppers are crap
[22:00:08] <fenn> and with enough gearing you can move anything
[22:00:19] <anonimasu> yep
[22:00:22] <K`zan> True, but gears ain't cheap either :-(.
[22:00:22] <anonimasu> you dont need speed for that kind of mill
[22:00:25] <anonimasu> heh
[22:00:28] <anonimasu> you have a lathe..
[22:00:30] <anonimasu> and a mill.
[22:00:47] <anonimasu> what's keeping you from making gears?
[22:00:50] <fenn> yeah i've been meaning to hob some gears for a while now
[22:00:58] <K`zan> Yes, just where to throw money is something I am being, perhaps too, worried about.
[22:01:05] <fenn> K`zan: 20DP is just a 20tpi tap used as a hob
[22:01:08] <anonimasu> fenn: I figure im going to machine gears someday
[22:01:09] <K`zan> Not enough to shit away...
[22:01:18] <anonimasu> well, use plastic gears..
[22:01:25] <K`zan> Ugh...
[22:01:33] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[22:01:39] <fenn> dont use gears
[22:01:50] <K`zan> Just replaced the crappy plastic crap in the mill with a belt drive :-).
[22:01:53] <anonimasu> fenn: do you think inkjet steppers will direct drive?
[22:01:58] <fenn> just use a different (better than stock) leadscrew
[22:02:01] <anonimasu> servos..
[22:02:16] <cradek> anonimasu: no
[22:02:27] <K`zan> scabattle is not a place to find any kinds of bargains on this stuff, unlike chicago or atlanta.
[22:02:27] <anonimasu> though plastic is crap. :D
[22:02:32] <fenn> they come with timing belts and pulleys i think
[22:02:35] <cradek> I use 3:1 with similar size motors (maybe mine are a little bigger)
[22:02:41] <anonimasu> hm ok
[22:02:40] <K`zan> Yes, it is, gets expensive quick...
[22:02:45] <K`zan> and a hassle.
[22:03:01] <fenn> ebay
[22:03:17] <K`zan> At least I have reached the point where trying to make motor mounts doesn't send me screaming to look at the checkbook :).
[22:03:28] <K`zan> ebay shipping will kill you :-(.
[22:03:34] <anonimasu> K`zan: well, why do you keep making excuses?
[22:03:34] <K`zan> "shipping"....
[22:03:54] <anonimasu> K`zan: either you do it or you dont, we are trying to give you the cheapest options..
[22:03:57] <anonimasu> maybe not the best, but the cheapest.
[22:04:04] <K`zan> anonimasu: because A) I'm confused, B) I have a nasty budget and C) because I can ;-).
[22:04:05] <fenn> its easier to make excuses than visiting a copy machine repair shop
[22:04:12] <anonimasu> fenn: agreed
[22:04:15] <fenn> they are throwing one out right now K`zan
[22:04:23] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1914686427679080572&q=5+axis
[22:04:25] <anonimasu> another one
[22:04:28] <anonimasu> omfg.
[22:04:57] <K`zan> Boeing surplus has pretty much dried up and gotten bloody expensive (outside of the problem it is a couple hours drive away ).
[22:05:23] <fenn> funny voice
[22:05:24] <anonimasu> bad video.
[22:05:29] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:05:53] <fenn> what kind of accent is that?
[22:06:49] <anonimasu> thoose stama machines are awesome :D
[22:08:14] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1111206615050276017&q=5+axis
[22:08:24] <anonimasu> if anyone is disturbed by my posting tell me :D
[22:09:08] <K`zan> Other than the envy that drives me nuts, none :-).
[22:09:13] <anonimasu> haha
[22:09:14] <SWPadnos> it sounds like a computer synthesized Danish voice
[22:09:20] <anonimasu> I really really want that machine.
[22:09:26] <anonimasu> look at that..
[22:09:45] <K`zan> Problems here are traffic from hell (makes chicago look tame) and everything! is a long way from where I am, sigh. That is why we want OUT of here.
[22:10:21] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964305417905388968&q=5+axis
[22:10:58] <anonimasu> though that turbocharger housing one is the most impressive
[22:11:12] <anonimasu> yet :)
[22:11:21] <anonimasu> it's as fast as thoose datrondynamics machines
[22:12:09] <fenn> the bar mill/turn doesnt look like its tall enough to swivel a full bar and not hit the floor
[22:13:06] <anonimasu> thoose seems to be surgical machines..
[22:13:10] <anonimasu> implants.. and stuff
[22:13:12] <anonimasu> small machines
[22:13:31] <anonimasu> relatively :)
[22:14:51] <anonimasu> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3550758284646677253&q=stama
[22:14:54] <anonimasu> 96 seconds per part..
[22:15:08] <fenn> what a waste of titanium
[22:15:13] <anonimasu> yeah :)
[22:15:28] <fenn> the tooth implant
[22:15:43] <anonimasu> fenn: though you wont complain when your hips wear out from all the time standing next to your mill
[22:15:47] <anonimasu> :D
[22:16:00] <anonimasu> but I think thoose are stainless..
[22:15:59] <fenn> looks like its cutting through cheese
[22:16:05] <fenn> said titanium at the end
[22:16:10] <anonimasu> :)
[22:17:41] <anonimasu> 50 hp spindles
[22:17:45] <anonimasu> spindle..
[22:18:05] <K`zan> Whew, that is just SO cool...
[22:18:58] <anonimasu> *cries*
[22:19:10] <anonimasu> how scary
[22:19:11] <K`zan> LOL, understand that :-)
[22:19:17] <lerneaen_hydra> how much of a bitch is titanium?
[22:19:22] <anonimasu> thoos machines costs more money then I'll own in my whole life
[22:19:26] <anonimasu> thoose..
[22:19:27] <K`zan> Probably less that a million dollars....
[22:19:30] <anonimasu> in total.
[22:19:35] <K`zan> Yeah, too true :-(.
[22:19:58] <fenn> lerneaen_hydra: quite a bitch.. low thermal conductivity causes it to melt and stick to tool tips, and its pretty flexible (relatively low modulus)
[22:20:14] <anonimasu> hm, sharp tools and cooling?
[22:20:13] <lerneaen_hydra> how low is the modulus?
[22:20:17] <lerneaen_hydra> 0.7-ish?
[22:20:41] <lerneaen_hydra> so it's similar to copper or shitty alu?
[22:20:56] <anonimasu> isnt all alu shitty?
[22:21:13] <anonimasu> *bitter*
[22:21:33] <lerneaen_hydra> no
[22:21:36] <anonimasu> hehe
[22:21:35] <lerneaen_hydra> tried speedal?
[22:21:37] <K`zan> At least the stuff from Lowe's and home depot...
[22:21:46] <lerneaen_hydra> wonderful to work with
[22:21:46] <anonimasu> actually 6061 cut's well, with sharp tools
[22:21:53] <K`zan> Fortunately online metals is close :-).
[22:21:55] <anonimasu> or was that 6063
[22:21:59] <lerneaen_hydra> 6063 is nice :D
[22:22:08] <K`zan> 6061 seems to work out OK here.
[22:22:11] <A-L-P-H-A> SWPadnos? it arrived, but they didn't ring my door bell... :( fackers.
[22:22:15] <anonimasu> or was it 6061-T6(maybe)
[22:22:18] <lerneaen_hydra> T6 is IMO good
[22:22:19] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, want to be my moving target?
[22:22:20] <anonimasu> I cant remember the tempering
[22:22:24] <lerneaen_hydra> * lerneaen_hydra dodges
[22:22:26] <lerneaen_hydra> ha ha!
[22:22:46] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra? deathmatch?
[22:23:08] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:23:12] <lerneaen_hydra> sleep :/
[22:23:19] <lerneaen_hydra> as in I get up at 6:20
[22:23:22] <lerneaen_hydra> and it's 11:20
[22:23:23] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra. wimp. but that's okay. :)
[22:23:28] <lerneaen_hydra> yeah
[22:23:44] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:24:15] <eholmgren> hrmmnn...
[22:24:32] <eholmgren> I wish the xylotex 1 axis driver was _way_ cheaper
[22:24:49] <eholmgren> need one more ef'ing drive
[22:25:22] <A-L-P-H-A> I wonder how impressed the GF would be if I made her a Ti ring...
[22:25:22] <anonimasu> eholmgren: why xylotex?
[22:25:44] <K`zan> I was wondering that too...
[22:25:45] <anonimasu> eholmgren: thoose things have no midband resonance compensation :/
[22:25:49] <eholmgren> who else sells single axis drives?
[22:25:49] <A-L-P-H-A> xylotex: enjoy it... :) As long as you don't know what you're missing from a gecko. :)
[22:25:54] <anonimasu> geckodrive?
[22:26:02] <eholmgren> ... I have 2 centent CN0162's
[22:26:03] <anonimasu> eholmgren: or well, rutex.. or japan servo
[22:26:04] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, no ... my member.
[22:26:40] <anonimasu> eholmgren: you really do want midband resonance compensation :) take my word for it
[22:26:49] <A-L-P-H-A> someone at the last party said they were hung like a gecko... I go... wait... the whole gecko, or just it's dick?
[22:27:05] <A-L-P-H-A> the girls got a chuckle out of that... :)
[22:27:06] <Jymmmm> I wish the prices on IP-KVM's would hurry up and go down.
[22:27:07] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: stop talking crap please
[22:27:18] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu. :P
[22:27:25] <anonimasu> ^_^
[22:27:32] <eholmgren> the centents do resonance comp
[22:28:21] <anonimasu> lerneaen_hydra: do you know where to get High density foam in sweden
[22:28:39] <lerneaen_hydra> no idea actually
[22:28:44] <anonimasu> :/
[22:28:48] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, got more picks of the waterblock you made... you still using that waterblock setup?
[22:28:55] <anonimasu> I'd love that kind of stuff for making molds of..
[22:29:02] <anonimasu> fibreglass/cf
[22:29:11] <fenn> anonimasu: the blue/pink stuff?
[22:29:23] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:29:32] <anonimasu> not the stuff used for building
[22:29:37] <fenn> no?
[22:29:44] <anonimasu> there's another kind of foam..
[22:29:52] <anonimasu> the blue stuff dosent end up with good finish
[22:30:10] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, any styrofoam will work... acetone will disolve the styrofoam... the white pellet stuff.
[22:30:15] <fenn> spray on a "tooling gel" layer?
[22:30:28] <anonimasu> fenn: where do you find that in sweden?
[22:30:33] <fenn> hell if i know
[22:30:34] <lerneaen_hydra> A-L-P-H-A; yeah
[22:30:39] <lerneaen_hydra> still using it
[22:30:41] <lerneaen_hydra> and got more images
[22:30:48] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, send them over...
[22:30:51] <lerneaen_hydra> mail?
[22:30:56] <fenn> anonimasu: if it were me i'd just use whatever resin i had and then buff it with paste wax
[22:31:04] <A-L-P-H-A> mall? all? or mail?
[22:31:24] <lerneaen_hydra> same address as you sent your resume from?
[22:31:38] <fenn> anonimasu: or if it's a one-off, put the styrofoam on the inside :)
[22:31:42] <A-L-P-H-A> lerneaen_hydra, dcc works too... but sure. where ever
[22:31:51] <lerneaen_hydra> ok
[22:31:52] <anonimasu> fenn: works for cf..
[22:31:54] <anonimasu> though not fibreglass
[22:31:58] <lerneaen_hydra> it'll be big though
[22:31:57] <lerneaen_hydra> ok?
[22:32:04] <lerneaen_hydra> oh
[22:32:09] <fenn> anonimasu: huh?
[22:32:10] <lerneaen_hydra> wait, I'll just host it
[22:32:12] <lerneaen_hydra> http
[22:32:16] <anonimasu> the resin eats the foam
[22:32:28] <fenn> oh.. use epoxy resin then
[22:32:43] <fenn> or polyester resin
[22:32:44] <anonimasu> well, then I might aswell do carbon fibre instad :D
[22:32:49] <anonimasu> polyester is what eats the foam..
[22:32:53] <fenn> have you checked CF prices lately? :)
[22:32:56] <A-L-P-H-A> what are you trying to cast?
[22:33:04] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:33:08] <anonimasu> fenn: I have a local supplier
[22:33:10] <fenn> * fenn guesses car parts
[22:33:21] <anonimasu> ;)
[22:33:24] <A-L-P-H-A> shit... Jymmmm sent me a link to this machinable wax company... that had epoxy casting resins... it was cool stuff.
[22:33:32] <anonimasu> they have good prices and I can buy in any sice I want
[22:33:35] <anonimasu> size..
[22:33:42] <anonimasu> one liter resin and 50 meters of twill..
[22:33:47] <A-L-P-H-A> make a negative mould, and cast. looked like it worked great.
[22:33:50] <anonimasu> or weave..
[22:33:55] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:34:00] <lerneaen_hydra> http://lerneaenhydra.shacknet.nu/images/files_temp/wb_images.zip <-- don't download unless you want them, it's 50mb and my upload is slow
[22:34:00] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: but that kind of stuff isnt avaiable here
[22:34:11] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu? couldn't they ship?
[22:34:20] <fenn> i want to do that with just regular gulf-wax stuff
[22:34:20] <anonimasu> A-L-P-H-A: from the usa?
[22:34:25] <A-L-P-H-A> yeah
[22:34:26] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:34:28] <anonimasu> probably no
[22:34:31] <anonimasu> t
[22:34:36] <anonimasu> also shipping costs lots of money :/
[22:35:11] <lerneaen_hydra> laters all
[22:35:14] <A-L-P-H-A> http://www.freemansupply.com/LiquidToolingMater.htm
[22:35:27] <A-L-P-H-A> later lerneaen_hydra
[22:35:58] <anonimasu> my geckodrive order is still missing
[22:36:20] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[22:36:32] <A-L-P-H-A> you paid by creditcard? you're protected at least. :)
[22:36:36] <anonimasu> Your item was processed and left our SANTA ANA, CA 92799 facility on January 22, 2007. Information, if available, is updated every evening. Please check again later.
[22:36:48] <anonimasu> hm, I'm not a happy camper this time..
[22:37:02] <A-L-P-H-A> my mesa is sitting in the post office... I gotta pick it up... I'll pick it up tomorrow
[22:37:24] <A-L-P-H-A> Jan22nd, that's only yesterday
[22:37:32] <anonimasu> yeah
[22:37:32] <A-L-P-H-A> it's probably on a cargo plane.
[22:37:37] <anonimasu> I ordered before christmas..
[22:37:46] <A-L-P-H-A> oh. was Mariss on vacation?
[22:37:48] <anonimasu> then I changed my order for another drive, that they could ship faster....
[22:37:51] <A-L-P-H-A> are these servo drivers?
[22:38:03] <anonimasu> and then it still didnt show up at the post tracking until today
[22:38:08] <anonimasu> or yesterday..
[22:38:10] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu... complain.
[22:38:22] <A-L-P-H-A> complain. and go get %20 off. :)
[22:38:29] <anonimasu> heh.
[22:38:37] <anonimasu> it's still shitty as I need the drives.
[22:38:49] <A-L-P-H-A> "Mariss, I would like to file a complaint against your shipping dept. I order blah blahb lahadsfasdf"
[22:39:05] <anonimasu> 20% off dosent bring me drives faster.. :/
[22:39:16] <A-L-P-H-A> :(
[22:39:33] <A-L-P-H-A> anonimasu, could have opted for over night express delivery for around $150USD.
[22:40:19] <anonimasu> yeah..
[22:53:41] <anonimasu> hm.
[23:43:54] <anonimasu> night