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[00:33:07] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/src/hal/components/charge_pump.comp: add enable pin to charge_pump
[00:55:57] <Jymmm> ovl max latency 12113
[00:57:28] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07v2_1_branch * 10emc2/debian/changelog: add enable pin to charge_pump
[01:17:38] <eric_u> I should be able to use a chargepump with my mesa board, correct?
[01:18:18] <skullworks-PGAB> why/how?
[01:19:28] <eric_u> good question, I'd have to have some extra hardware
[01:19:50] <eric_u> the idea of the chargepump is to shut down if the computer goes out to lunch
[01:20:22] <skullworks-PGAB> charge pumps are a safety device on some para port breakout boards
[01:20:43] <skullworks-PGAB> how would you wire it
[01:21:36] <skullworks-PGAB> maybe as a lock to keep machine in e-stop
[01:21:40] <eric_u> I'd wire it into my estop circuit, which at a minimum is going to disable my drives
[01:36:33] <skullworks-PGAB> this looked promising...
http://www.robotpower.com/products/simple-h_info.html
[01:36:54] <skullworks-PGAB> until I saw the max voltage...:(
[01:37:31] <eric_u> I don't have a very good impression of most of the monolithic controller/power chips
[01:38:32] <eric_u> although International rectifier has the capability to make something that would be really good
[01:38:55] <eric_u> I think they've probably chosen not to do it
[01:39:31] <skullworks-PGAB> I just need an H-brigde with the capacity to power my Pittman 14437's and be driven by a Pluto-P
[01:40:55] <skullworks-PGAB> my Powersupply has been down graded to 30.1VDC with 20A available
[01:41:38] <eric_u> I don't know why the OSMC has to be so expensive, but it's not fair for me to say that
[01:42:08] <skullworks-PGAB> I think its flawed too
[01:43:45] <skullworks-PGAB> I'm in the OSMC yahoo group - too many people report majic smoke issues.
[01:47:56] <eric_u> I'm a member of that group too, don't really keep up with it though
[01:48:15] <eric_u> you could buy some of the AMC amps on ebay
[01:48:24] <skullworks-PGAB> AMC?
[01:48:25] <eric_u> the brushless amps work with brushed motors
[01:49:08] <eric_u> http://cgi.ebay.com/AMC-Brushless-PWM-Servo-Amplifier-BE12A6_W0QQitemZ150106279682QQcategoryZ78191QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[01:49:33] <eric_u> why can't ebay have links that just have the item number in them?
[01:50:33] <Guest905> Hello,
[01:50:37] <eric_u> amps like that one seem to be on there a lot
[01:50:39] <eric_u> hi
[01:50:58] <eric_u> Copley controls also makes some amps that might work for you
[01:51:28] <eric_u> seems like copley has pwm drives, so you wouldn't have to integrate the pwm
[01:52:25] <Guest905> I was just looking over the EMC lathe cycle proposals and wanted to contact the iter with some suggestions, but coud not send to the lerman-emc at se-ltd.com address. Is ther another way to contact them?
[01:52:59] <skullworks-PGAB> he's lurking here... now
[01:53:21] <skullworks-PGAB> or logged in atleast
[01:53:33] <skullworks-PGAB> which lathe cycle?
[01:53:52] <Guest905> I was going to make some suggestions, as I am a programmer for CNC's with about 30 years in it.
[01:54:13] <skullworks-PGAB> a fellow paper taper!
[01:55:06] <Guest905> I was noticing the Gcodes were a bit off of the norm. and yes, I started out with Bridgeport Boss3 with an actual Teletype attached to it.
[01:55:22] <skullworks-PGAB> but Lathes are not my strong point.
[01:55:43] <Guest905> The giveaway is if they know what L10 means.
[01:55:51] <skullworks-PGAB> yep Bridgeport with a Bandit was my start - and the teltype...
[01:56:23] <lerman_> lerman_ is now known as lerman
[01:56:56] <Guest905> I was never a Bandit fan, although they do havce a strong follwing.
[01:58:14] <skullworks-PGAB> I'm not a bandit fan either - but it later paid off when a company had nothing but the old program files to reverse engineer some parts from.
[01:58:35] <skullworks-PGAB> no one in the company knew how to read the code.
[01:59:36] <Guest905> I was going to suggest that the codes be standardise on G94 UPMin, G95 UPRev, G96 CSS, and G97 for RPM.
[02:00:44] <skullworks-PGAB> I agree on the G96/G97 - and would also like to see G50 made to max Sxxxx.
[02:01:16] <skullworks-PGAB> think G50 is assigned to something else currently
[02:01:50] <Guest905> I can understand what you mean, We had Okuma's and the owners barely know how to read code. We just purchased a Daewoo mill with a Fanuc 0Mic and I had to recode a number of 4 axis code to get a job up in a day.
[02:02:29] <skullworks-PGAB> Okuma code is all its own - somewhat
[02:03:08] <skullworks-PGAB> but I run Okumas and it bothers me less than the hoops I have to jump thru to do things on the Mazaks
[02:03:22] <cradek> Guest905: please put your comments on the wiki - we need input like this
[02:03:48] <Guest905> I agree with the G50 speed clamp, although it is used in Okuma lathe to reposition the part orgin if you have blaks of vaious lengths and wish to touch them off individualy.
[02:04:37] <skullworks-PGAB> cradek: How strict is EMC2 going to try and follow RS274NGC?
[02:05:51] <Guest905> Yes, I acn understand your MAZAK issues, It is like APT, describe the part and then see what it draws lout like. Fanuc FAPT was like that, I liked the early Okuma IGF programming, as you did each process and it showed you as you did it.
[02:07:09] <skullworks-PGAB> There is some strong Allen Bradley influence in the NGC that causes some incompatabilities with most common G-code.
[02:09:12] <skullworks-PGAB> It would be nice if EMC2 would be able to accept the code from common POST processors used in common cad/cam systems without hand edits to make the G-code NGC compliant.
[02:10:40] <skullworks-PGAB> They have IGF on the OSP5000 and OSP5020's at work
[02:11:03] <skullworks-PGAB> I've never used it - and no one has a clue about manuals
[02:11:11] <Guest905> Sadly. A-B's were a very problematic control out here, so their codes would seem a bit odd. I always figured that they all used the same dimensions, just different codes, It makes making Post Processors less confusing. If you know what one expects, you can search and replace it with the new code, and rename the post.
[02:12:44] <skullworks-PGAB> well one command which breaks almost every macro I have is the fat that EMC2 can't cope with this "G03 J-.5"
[02:12:50] <skullworks-PGAB> fact
[02:13:26] <skullworks-PGAB> EMC2 won't accept a single I or J
[02:13:43] <Guest905> the IGF on the 50xx was prety easy to use. you can play with it and get an idea of how it works as the machine runs, and if you change one of the parameters, you can still use the sart button to continue running parts.
[02:14:00] <skullworks-PGAB> must have a X or Y value on the same line
[02:15:48] <skullworks-PGAB> I really liked the OSP5020M (mill) control - I just wished they didn't want an extra $15K to add a DNC second serial port.
[02:16:17] <Guest905> Skull, I had the aame problem with Predator Virtual CNc with a customer. In it, we have a variable to make the IJK modal, which can cause the machine to carry the previous value, which is never the case on any CNC I have run.
[02:17:04] <skullworks-PGAB> true
[02:17:39] <skullworks-PGAB> have seen where IJK must be absolute ( Hurco )
[02:17:53] <skullworks-PGAB> but never modal
[02:18:20] <Guest905> I know all about the DNC-B protocol, I ahve several customer running Predator DNC with it. It is nice though, you can actually call programs from the source computer, store then back, or call for DNC and even restart like it was in the control. It is nice, but I do agree with the price issue.
[02:19:02] <skullworks-PGAB> but for my post to work with EMC2 I'm going to have to set output to "all"
[02:19:38] <skullworks-PGAB> worse - they are only salvaging boards from machine tradins
[02:19:50] <skullworks-PGAB> and re selling them
[02:20:21] <skullworks-PGAB> they quit supporting the hardware for the 50xx line years ago
[02:20:41] <Guest905> My ANILAM is like that too. I have to make the arc center absolute. plus, mine is an early one with only micro-cassette, not RS232, so every line of code has to be put in manually. Ths is the reason I am looking at the EMC.
[02:21:29] <skullworks-PGAB> never used the Anilam - but did put in the hours on the Proto Trak
[02:22:50] <skullworks-PGAB> one thing that has really given EMC2 the big jump lately is the use of HAL
[02:23:14] <skullworks-PGAB> you can rig up most anything with it...
[02:23:18] <Guest905> I know, It used to be $8000.00 plus install, but I think the 50XX lost support about 5 years ago. We have Gossiger out here as the new dealer. I know several of their people, but haven't any experience with them now.
[02:25:32] <skullworks-PGAB> I like the OKUMA machines, but they are going to be nearly impossible to retrofit to EMC2
[02:25:48] <Guest905> My big queston on the EMC is about what it will take for the interface to remove my ANILAM controller. My concern was that the STG boards are ISA and like RS@#@, it is considered "legacy" hardware, and is being phased out by the PC manufactures.
[02:26:36] <skullworks-PGAB> The OLD Mori Seiki with Yasnaq or Fanuc 3t to 5t covert much easier
[02:26:39] <Guest905> Rs232, had the caps lock down too long.
[02:26:39] <eric_u> stg was promising a PCI board 10 years ago, but it never got done
[02:27:23] <eric_u> it is very difficult to get isa nowadays, you almost have to go with a outboard cabinet over an external interface
[02:27:37] <skullworks-PGAB> I think there is a strong future with the MESA card
[02:28:07] <eric_u> that's what I went with, mostly for the price
[02:28:26] <eric_u> PCI 32 is looking a little weak though
[02:28:43] <eric_u> don't know how much longer you can count on having computers with it in there
[02:29:25] <skullworks-PGAB> Price is good - but its great that P.Wallace is on speaking terms with the EMC people - so things advance together.
[02:30:15] <Guest905> Boeing has a problem bigger than that, They have some old G&L PC based controls that were retrofitted to their boring mills, and to several Danly mills which are twin head hish speed spindles on essentially a planer mill frame. They were origianlly OS2, then updated to NT4.0, but G&L are no longer supporting them, and they have been having issues with the original hardware and replacing components.
[02:31:20] <eric_u> I had a conversation a lot like this the other day with my boss.
[02:31:22] <steve_stallings> steve_stallings is now known as steves_logging
[02:32:04] <skullworks-PGAB> yep - same where I work - they have an M&M and a Hess Mae metal spinners - running some long dead DOS programs
[02:32:14] <eric_u> he asked me if we were going to have to live with machines running off of old computers, and I said there are people out there running much older computers than we are
[02:32:18] <skullworks-PGAB> on 486's
[02:32:54] <eric_u> there is a lab on campus running a giant fatigue machine with a 386
[02:33:11] <eric_u> they tried updating the computer and it was using software timing loops
[02:33:25] <anonimasu> ouch
[02:33:28] <skullworks-PGAB> ouch
[02:33:52] <Guest905> On the legacy hardware issue. the latest Siemens 840D has no Comm Ports. it has a USB port on the front end, and alythogh Boeing ordered it with 2 comm ports, it did not have them on the cabinet. The response from Seimens was, We took them out of the HMI, and we aren't goig to use them any more.
[02:33:57] <eric_u> I thought that was dead by the time of the 386, but MTS thought different
[02:34:20] <skullworks-PGAB> 486's hit the scene broke many video games for that same reason
[02:34:25] <eric_u> the death of the serial port is almost criminal
[02:34:31] <anonimasu> yeah
[02:35:04] <eric_u> I can't believe there are so many parallel ports on new computers, haven't been able to buy a printer with one for a while now
[02:35:26] <Guest905> The idea is to put NIC cards in everything, and then use the network.
[02:35:42] <skullworks-PGAB> (hackers paradise)
[02:35:51] <eric_u> usb is great, but it's no firewire
[02:36:10] <toastydeath> i'm just waiting for an infiniband printer.
[02:36:45] <eric_u> hopefully we can standardize on PCI express for a while
[02:37:51] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB has too muh invested in his PCI 64's
[02:38:06] <eric_u> too bad Intel and AMD don't really value real-time
[02:38:27] <skullworks-PGAB> Those 39160's where NOT cheap!
[02:38:47] <Guest905> One note on NIC cards and connections. Boeing Seattle is pulling their CNC's off the network, as the NT based ones have a major issue with corrupting profiles when they log in, and when the XP based MAZAK machines logged in, the networked looked for updates and installed them. ehy had a 5 axis mazak download updates, install then and reboot while running after it installed them in the background.
[02:39:15] <eric_u> that story makes me feel better
[02:39:22] <skullworks-PGAB> yeah but the hardware mfg's are playing lapdog to the software giant...
[02:39:27] <eric_u> I have a lab with an embedded computer running xp headless
[02:40:03] <eric_u> the most recent update took out the video driver because there is spyware with the same name
[02:40:23] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB giggles
[02:40:44] <anonimasu> Guest905: cute
[02:40:53] <skullworks-PGAB> I use Win XP pro - to play video games...
[02:41:09] <Guest905> I heard from a customer of mine that just got a new MAZAK mill, that the techs suggested using the RS232 ports, as they have had to devirus a number of customer machines.
[02:41:23] <skullworks-PGAB> serious machines are using W2k or linux
[02:42:04] <eric_u> the IT group hasn't caught on that we are using these computers for data acquisition, and have them set up with spyware and virus protection and auto updates that can't be turned off
[02:42:28] <ejholmgren> blasphemy
[02:42:46] <eric_u> and their policy that can't be changed is that the updates are done at noon on tuesday when we are working
[02:42:50] <ejholmgren> ... has this caused workplace violence?
[02:42:55] <anonimasu> eric_u: heh
[02:43:03] <anonimasu> eric_u: it's quite simple to change, if they want
[02:43:09] <skullworks-PGAB> um.... I have this little linux ISO - it could allow you to fix that...
[02:43:11] <eric_u> yes, it's their choice
[02:43:18] <anonimasu> just change the GPO for your user..
[02:43:29] <anonimasu> a few clicks..
[02:43:33] <anonimasu> :)
[02:44:02] <eric_u> I actually have a fix: get rid of the windows computer entirely.
[02:44:14] <skullworks-PGAB> there is this little file named SAM...
[02:44:37] <eric_u> it serves up data it's getting from a linux computer
[02:45:17] <eric_u> we had a programmer that is only happy programming on windows, so that's how he did it.
[02:45:31] <Guest905> Oddly, the Open PC based controls were supposed to be new, but the original Bridgeport Boss machines had a DEC PCP computer as the brain, and Savignini used the came DEC for its million dollar sheet metal formers. so these guys are using 8 inch floppy disks and scouring junkyards for hardware to keep them up. The only other way was Kermit, and we put in a Kermit link inot Predator DNC just to accomodate them.
[02:46:16] <skullworks-PGAB> wow
[02:46:27] <anonimasu> :D
[02:46:30] <eric_u> I'd hate to rely on an 8" floppy for anything
[02:46:54] <ejholmgren> ouch
[02:46:57] <eric_u> I remember the days of recovering 5" disks when the secretaries used them for too long
[02:47:13] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB remembers the full sized desk sized Wang Computer with 10mb drum drive...
[02:47:39] <eric_u> I used a wang computer, but they didn't let me touch the hardware
[02:47:42] <skullworks-PGAB> hard sectored floppys
[02:48:00] <Guest905> The new HAAS controls are Linux based. Although I do communication to all kinds of controls, I think HAAS has one of the most user friendly layouts and is atually a very nice control to use.
[02:48:12] <eric_u> cobol, now there's a language to give any self-respecting programmer nightmares about running but not getting anywhere
[02:48:53] <eric_u> linux really is the only way to go
[02:49:04] <skullworks-PGAB> I used to play games on COBOL - via teltype - not even a CRT at that terminal...
[02:49:45] <skullworks-PGAB> When did Haas go Linux?
[02:49:58] <Guest905> I remember a company in Seattle in 1979 that was going to make a PASCAL computer as it was the future, they moved to software about a year later and I lost touch with them.
[02:50:10] <eric_u> weren't they using dos before?
[02:50:54] <Guest905> I dont know if it was DOS, as they were running Motorolla chips as I recall.
[02:51:28] <eric_u> ok, not dos then
[02:51:37] <eric_u> plan 9 or something?
[02:51:55] <skullworks-PGAB> CPM?
[02:52:29] <skullworks-PGAB> the OSP50xx were offshot of CPM
[02:52:43] <skullworks-PGAB> hence the PIP command...
[02:54:36] <Guest905> Well, Okuma originally was an office computer, but ran as a frontside and backside system, so using it for a control and having the ability to program with it was natural for an advance(for its time) control.
[02:55:00] <CIA-19> 03jmkasunich 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/ (halcmd_commands.c halcmd_main.c): getopt returns int, not char
[02:55:36] <skullworks-PGAB> Did you ever see one of the IGF programiing desktop units?
[02:55:52] <skullworks-PGAB> with the dual 8" floppies?
[02:56:40] <skullworks-PGAB> I know a shop that got one when they bought a MC4-VA
[02:56:47] <eric_u> the Acu-rite obviously boots into dos before the gui starts up
[02:57:22] <Guest905> I liked the old PIP command Punch bb1:a.min,tt: and Read tt:a.min,bb1:
[02:58:19] <skullworks-PGAB> they have an Acer knee mill with the Mititoyo CNC on it - its running W95.
[02:58:35] <Guest905> I saw the old units, but never knew anyone who had one. the closest I got to that was the old Brigreport EasyCAM or something like that.
[02:58:37] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB is LMAO
[02:58:52] <skullworks-PGAB> EasyTrak
[02:58:59] <eric_u> win 95 is ok as a machine controller if you never hook it up to the network
[02:59:57] <eric_u> I have a Tek scope that runs win ME or something like that
[03:00:02] <skullworks-PGAB> Eric - I got paid great money to support W9x O/S - so pardon if I think thats nuts...
[03:00:12] <eric_u> not too bad
[03:00:40] <Guest905> EasyTraK is the machine control, this was an old i believe NEC computer with 8 inch floppy and was an all in one box that jut did the offline programming.
[03:00:47] <eric_u> all I'm saying is that it doesn't go off and surf the web for 1/2 second like every windows since
[03:00:54] <skullworks-PGAB> then my job was outsource and I went back to my trade and did real work again.
[03:01:16] <skullworks-PGAB> ah
[03:01:51] <eric_u> I'll never forget the first time win NT did that to me and did $2000 damage
[03:02:27] <skullworks-PGAB> I trust W2K the most... (add salt)
[03:02:28] <eric_u> that was when I broke out the dos machine
[03:02:45] <eric_u> win2k no good for controlling a machine though
[03:02:53] <skullworks-PGAB> true
[03:03:02] <eric_u> use it for a front end to a linux or dos box
[03:03:17] <eric_u> linux is pretty obvious now
[03:03:20] <skullworks-PGAB> but it won't crash when I'm hours into a CAD/CAM project
[03:03:47] <skullworks-PGAB> unlike XP or any other M$ flavor
[03:04:59] <skullworks-PGAB> The next great boundry to cross is a really usable CAD/CAM package thats open source for linux.
[03:05:25] <skullworks-PGAB> once that is done I can dump M$
[03:05:39] <eric_u> that would be nice
[03:06:47] <skullworks-PGAB> there are some 2D cad - but its not really usable for machined parts and file import/export is dismal at best
[03:06:47] <Guest905> I would agree with the CAD\CAM program being a nice addition. The problem is that MS is so intrenced in the manufacturing world, CATIA went to a MS version to capture more market and attract new customers.
[03:07:13] <skullworks-PGAB> The French surrender again...
[03:07:44] <skullworks-PGAB> nevermind - last I was quoted $19,500 for a single seat of CATIA
[03:08:10] <skullworks-PGAB> SolidWorks started looking great in that instant.
[03:09:16] <skullworks-PGAB> Some of the giants use linux for the dev work and port to Win
[03:10:31] <skullworks-PGAB> but the cost of the linux version - which seem less polished because there dev team don't need it pretty is more than the Win version - because they assume a higher support cost factor.
[03:12:58] <skullworks-PGAB> kinda like Oracle - it the suppor that costs you.
[03:15:20] <skullworks-PGAB> I need to go move things...
[03:15:22] <Guest905> Year ago, all the heavy hitters were UNIX, I remember the days os SGI boxes running CAMAX CAMMAND. I had a pentium 90 running CAMMAND designer to airframe anaylsis and design aerodynamics inspection instruments. it was running NT3.5. Sved us 10k over the SGI box and was just as fast, only half the graphics resolution.
[03:16:46] <skullworks-PGAB> Just to be rude - I'd love to find an DEC Alpha and get EMC2 running on it....
[03:17:06] <jmkasunich> heh
[03:17:13] <jmkasunich> funny you should mention that
[03:17:25] <jmkasunich> cradek has been messing around with a power-pc the last couple days
[03:17:45] <skullworks-PGAB> Motorola CPU?
[03:17:58] <jmkasunich> whatever a powerpc is
[03:18:21] <skullworks-PGAB> think they went thru a few
[03:18:37] <skullworks-PGAB> then IBM for the G series IIRC
[03:22:36] <skullworks-PGAB> If he's doing EMC stuff - I wonder what his output plan was... that 25 pin port was SCSI not parallel.
[03:25:07] <skullworks-PGAB> bbl - domestec duties call.
[03:38:48] <Jymmm> * Jymmm misses seeing LEs & Jacky around
[03:39:03] <Guest905> Didn't the DEC
[03:39:42] <Guest905> alpha use the same grahics adn other parts as a PC
[03:42:33] <Guest905> I recall an engineer friend of mine had one with soemthing like 7gig of memory and 8 trabytes of hard drives back when I was using Penium 90's. they were trying to develop a database of all the parts and data for every plane that Boeing had built and was building and wanted it to run out of RAM instead of going to disk for any info to speed up searchs.
[03:44:47] <Guest905> At the time I remember you had to just about hold DEC at gunpoint to have them admit to making the motherboard. It was almost like being in a cult when people talked about actually owning one. Usual DEC marketing from what I have seen.
[03:49:33] <Guest905> Has anyone been involved with replaing an ANILAM crusader control on a mill?
[03:59:07] <ejholmgren> jmk: adding mac support?
[03:59:12] <jmkasunich> no
[03:59:22] <jmkasunich> I'm not sure what cradek has in mind
[03:59:28] <jmkasunich> probably just seeing if it can be done
[03:59:34] <cradek> I'm just building sim
[03:59:40] <SWPadnos_> bummer
[03:59:46] <cradek> it would be nice to check that it works on a big-endian machine if nothing else
[03:59:46] <ejholmgren> ah
[04:00:04] <ejholmgren> I assume getting rt going would be a b*tch
[04:00:15] <SWPadnos_> RTAI is available for PPC, I Believe
[04:00:23] <SWPadnos_> at least an older version was (I think)
[04:00:31] <ejholmgren> and for freebsd?
[04:00:40] <SWPadnos_> not that I know of
[04:00:55] <SWPadnos_> but then again, I don't know a lot about RTAI :)
[04:01:29] <ejholmgren> I was under the assumption that os x was freebsd with a tweaked kernel and proprietary windowing system
[04:01:33] <jtr> Jymmm:
http://www.shopsmith.com/ownersite/partscat/productoptionspartscat.htm?item=555143&qty=1
[04:01:39] <ejholmgren> 4.1, 4.2 maybe
[04:02:01] <SWPadnos_> OSX is Mach Unix + pretty UI
[04:02:03] <jtr> Jymmm:
http://home.triad.rr.com/landj07/jimages/sander.jpg
[04:02:12] <SWPadnos_> basically the same as NextStep was (but updated, of course)
[04:02:31] <ejholmgren> jtr: I have a Mark V in my basement :)
[04:02:54] <jtr> Jymmm: It's not perfect, but it works - works better with sandpaper on the disc...
[04:02:59] <Jymmm> lol
[04:03:40] <ejholmgren> it's a glorified tablesaw at the moment
[04:03:53] <ejholmgren> my dad is still looking for the lathe chuck
[04:04:24] <Jymmm> bbiab... foodage
[04:08:02] <jtr> ejholmgren: I don't, but they look pretty slick. For this, I got the disc from ShopSmith ($40) and the table at Cabin Fever ($10)
[04:15:53] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (configure.in configure): test for more than simple existence of bitops.h
[04:16:35] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/usr_intf/iosh.cc: remove pre-hal IO kruft
[04:17:40] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/drivers/Submakefile: don't build bit images for sim
[04:18:22] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/utils/Submakefile: don't need to configure hardware for sim
[04:21:16] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/rtapi/ (rtapi_bitops.h sim_common.h): powerpc support
[04:34:09] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
[04:34:51] <cradek> argh
[04:35:27] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
[04:39:02] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 (2.6.16.20-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
[04:43:12] <jtr> Jymmm: how good does the sanding disc need to be? This one has .010 runout about an inch in from the edge.
[04:46:41] <jtr> I'm off to bed - bbl
[04:52:51] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (configure.in configure): repair asm/bitops detection
[04:55:29] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 (2.6.16.20-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot6_log.txt
[04:58:30] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot2_log.txt
[04:59:25] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build FAILED ; see
http://linuxcnc.org/compile_farm/emc2head_slot7_log.txt
[05:18:09] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 6.06 LTS (dapper) realtime (2.6.15-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[05:18:20] <jmkasunich> yay
[05:20:29] <skullworks-PGAB> that was fast - what was broke?
[05:25:28] <Jymmm> jtr: Well... I'm trying to better than that if possible
[05:29:17] <jmkasunich> cradek accidentally broke an include file while working on the power pc stuff
[05:29:24] <jmkasunich> he fixed it right up tho
[05:29:39] <jmkasunich> now we're just waiting for the compile farm to finish
[05:29:48] <jmkasunich> my system is pretty bogged down at the moment
[05:30:37] <jmkasunich> load average: 10.43, 9.18, 7.51
[05:31:15] <skullworks-PGAB> running VM ware?
[05:31:21] <jmkasunich> three of them
[05:41:34] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07BDI-4.51 (2.6.16.20-rtai) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[05:44:19] <Jymmm> I wonder if I could just buy the disc as a replacement part for that sander
[05:47:48] <Jymmm> logger_emc bookmark
[05:47:56] <Jymmm> logger_emc help
[05:48:02] <Jymmm> !bookmark
[05:48:03] <Jymmm> sigh
[05:48:17] <jmkasunich> logger_emc: bookmark
[05:48:17] <jmkasunich> Just this once .. here's the log:
http://www.linuxcnc.org/irc/irc.freenode.net:6667/emc/2007-04-01.txt
[05:48:29] <jmkasunich> you just have to know how to talk to it ;-)
[05:49:31] <Jymmm> jmkasunich what you think about me buying the cast iron disc for a 12" sander and connecting it to my own motor?
[05:49:50] <jmkasunich> might work
[05:49:56] <eric_u> logger_emc: tato pe lat marunga or tumhe acha lagegga
[05:49:56] <eric_u> I'm logging. I don't understand 'tato pe lat marunga or tumhe acha lagegga', eric_u. Try /msg logger_emc help
[05:50:08] <jmkasunich> if your motor shaft is the right size for the hole in the disk
[05:50:10] <jmkasunich> and the disk isn't crap
[05:50:26] <eric_u> apparently you can buy spare parts from grizzley
[05:50:33] <Jymmm> I'm think ing it has to be better that cast aluminum disc
[05:51:54] <eric_u> guitar makers just build their own out of wood
[05:52:00] <eric_u> although they are dishes, not flat
[05:52:04] <jmkasunich> the disk itself?
[05:52:12] <jmkasunich> or the stuff around it, like the table?
[05:52:29] <eric_u> ever try buying a 24" disk?
[05:52:54] <jmkasunich> I wouldn't want to be in the same room as a wood disk turning really fast unless I knew exactly how it was made
[05:53:11] <eric_u> they turn pretty slow, you have to hold the guitar after all
[05:53:32] <Jymmm> jmkasunich:
http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/FULLPRES.exe?PARTNUM=31-300
[05:53:47] <jmkasunich> true - I'm thinking of the ones that throw sparks when you sand/grind steel
[05:53:57] <jmkasunich> for wood it would be slower so you don't burn the wood
[05:54:56] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: unless you know exactly what the shaft hole in that disk is you are taking a chance
[05:55:03] <jmkasunich> without a lathe, you can't modify it to fit your motor
[05:55:42] <eric_u> there have been companies that made kits for sanders
[05:55:43] <Jymmm> jmkasunich I think I can see one of these in person, I suspect it would be a "standard" size. 5/8" etc
[05:55:46] <eric_u> but google is no help
[05:59:01] <CIA-19> 03compile-farm 07Ubuntu 5.10 (breezy) realtime (2.6.12-magma) * 10emc2head/: build PASSED
[06:01:02] <Jymmm> holy shit... the disc alone is $82
[06:01:02] <skullworks-PGAB> yeah for breezy!
[06:01:58] <Jymmm> I knew dewalt and Black and decker were the same compney, I never knew Delta and porter cable were too
[06:02:43] <eric_u> that was a recent thing
[06:02:43] <ds3> milkwalkie might be part of PC too
[06:03:08] <eric_u> no, they were bought up by a European company
[06:03:31] <ds3> bouch(sp)?
[06:03:43] <eric_u> no, thank goodness
[06:03:44] <Jymmm> BOSCH
[06:04:14] <Jymmm> and $220 for the motor, are they on crack or what
[06:05:17] <Jymmm> too bad I couldn't just find a disc brake rotoe for a midget car! lol
[06:05:19] <Jymmm> rotor
[06:06:11] <Jymmm> OH, maybe I could find one for a motorcycle though...
[06:06:24] <Jymmm> I think the bearings would be strong enough =)
[06:06:32] <Jymmm> gawd I'd hope so =)
[06:06:44] <eric_u> never seen one that was flat
[06:07:03] <eric_u> i.e. the hub sticks through
[06:07:23] <Jymmm> forgot about that
[06:07:44] <jmkasunich> jymm: what do you intend to sand?
[06:07:52] <eric_u> plastic
[06:07:57] <Jymmm> jmkasunich plastic - remove toolmarks
[06:08:12] <Jymmm> so I can buff/polish it
[06:08:25] <jmkasunich> on flat surfaces I assume
[06:08:48] <Jymmm> Yes, maybe some curved too, but that would be the exception
[06:09:06] <jmkasunich> you are gonna want low speed
[06:09:21] <jmkasunich> most of the belt/disk sanders I've seen would make a melted mess of plastic
[06:10:26] <Jymmm> I see the local fab shop uses a 12" disc sander for their stuff, but they flame polish it afterwards.
[06:11:48] <eric_u> you could use the disk brake rotor, just have to cut out the center of the sandpaper
[06:11:58] <Jymmm> lol
[06:12:06] <jmkasunich> coarse sandpaper on a fast disk would be ok, but would leave its own marks
[06:12:20] <Jymmm> 320 and 400 grit
[06:12:22] <jmkasunich> fine paper is the problem - it will clog up, and then heat up
[06:12:28] <Jymmm> is what I'm using now
[06:12:35] <jmkasunich> by hand, or by machine?
[06:12:39] <jmkasunich> and wet or dry?
[06:12:52] <Jymmm> dry hand
[06:12:52] <ds3> how about using a smaller disk on a hand held electric drill
[06:12:55] <ds3> ?
[06:13:02] <Jymmm> ds3 gouging
[06:13:18] <jmkasunich> I'd give serious consideration to wet sanding (with water)
[06:13:20] <ds3> even if the drill is well clamped down?
[06:13:44] <Jymmm> ds3 the problem is you can never clamp down a hand drill good enough.
[06:13:52] <ds3> oh
[06:14:15] <jmkasunich> have you located a source of adhesive backed disks in the finer grits?
[06:14:25] <jmkasunich> and if so, what sizes are available?
[06:14:29] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yes, up to 600 grit
[06:14:30] <jmkasunich> and what size are your parts?
[06:14:37] <ds3> what about tearing apart an old turntable?
[06:14:51] <Jymmm> ds3 can you even find one =)
[06:15:02] <ds3> I'd try capitol flea market
[06:15:07] <ds3> or the berryesa one
[06:15:08] <jmkasunich> turntable motor is too weak
[06:15:21] <jmkasunich> and hooking it to a proper motor would need a lathe probably
[06:15:38] <Jymmm> I have a bench grinder w/ variable speed, what Iwas thinking if I could get a good dic, create something to hold it and a couple of pulleys.
[06:15:44] <ds3> Okay
[06:15:51] <Jymmm> s/dic/disc/
[06:15:58] <ds3> how about modifying one of those tile saws HD sells for ~$80?
[06:16:05] <ds3> just glue the disk to the "saw blade"
[06:16:08] <jmkasunich> why not just take one wheel off the grinder and put a disk there
[06:16:11] <jmkasunich> no belt
[06:16:33] <Jymmm> jmkasunich tried, wobbles like a junky goign thru DT's
[06:16:56] <jmkasunich> is the grinder shaft wobbling?
[06:17:14] <Jymmm> jmkasunich remember that funky acme nut?
[06:17:24] <jmkasunich> not really
[06:17:31] <Jymmm> 1/2-10
[06:17:41] <jmkasunich> thats what holds the grindstone on?
[06:17:46] <Jymmm> yep
[06:18:00] <eric_u> http://www.harpmaker.net/chapter6.htm
[06:18:44] <jmkasunich> a grinder usually has a step in the shaft. with a large "washer" against the step - then a paper washer, the wheel, another paper washer, another steel washer, and a nut
[06:18:48] <jmkasunich> is your grinder like that?
[06:19:22] <Jymmm> yes less the paper wahers
[06:19:29] <Jymmm> washers
[06:19:41] <jmkasunich> ok, what did you try?
[06:19:52] <jmkasunich> removed the nut, outer washer, wheel...
[06:19:53] <eric_u> http://cgi.ebay.com/SHOP-NOTES-Vol-2-Issue-12-Shop-Built-Disk-Sander_W0QQitemZ300087605234QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
[06:19:55] <jmkasunich> removed the inner washer?
[06:20:07] <ds3>
[06:20:39] <Jymmm> jmkasunich cnc a two MDF discs.... one to mount on the shaft, the one to munt on th efirst disc, then a flat plastic disc to adhere the sandpaper to.
[06:21:11] <jmkasunich> you aren't answering my questions
[06:21:22] <jmkasunich> did you remove the inner washer, or use it?
[06:21:55] <Jymmm> shaft washer, mdf disc, washer, other mdf disc, plastic disc, sandpaper
[06:22:19] <jmkasunich> shaft washer, mdf disk, I understand
[06:22:34] <jmkasunich> then you either have a washer and nut OR another disk
[06:23:00] <jmkasunich> or do you mean the 2nd disk had a big hole in the middle to clear the washer and nut?
[06:23:23] <Jymmm> Ok, shaft is 1/2" (or there abouts), I munt the first disc to the shaft using both washers and the nut, then
[06:23:35] <jmkasunich> then stop
[06:23:54] <jmkasunich> did you ever try running it with just the first disk?
[06:24:10] <Jymmm> the OTHER MDF disc has a 2" hole in the middle that attaches to the first disc so the sandpaper clears the shaft
[06:24:20] <jmkasunich> if it doesn't run smoothly with one disk, no way in hell will it run smoothly when you throw more crap on it
[06:24:27] <jmkasunich> I understand now
[06:24:41] <jmkasunich> and I think that design is doomed to failure
[06:25:06] <jmkasunich> because theres no way you are going to get the 2nd disk concentric to the first to the tolerances that are needed to run smoothly
[06:25:41] <jmkasunich> one disk you might get to run smoothly, if the hold in it is just about a press fit on the shaft, and is CNCed accurately concentric to the OD
[06:25:42] <Jymmm> 6 holes, 3 are used with dowel pins, the other three are bolts
[06:25:56] <Jymmm> semetrical
[06:26:03] <jmkasunich> but how did you align it in the first place?
[06:26:20] <Jymmm> align the first mdf disc?
[06:26:34] <jmkasunich> no, the hole patterns in the two disks
[06:26:40] <Jymmm> cnc
[06:27:23] <jmkasunich> maybe, if you are extremely lucky, and extremely good at making all the parts
[06:27:25] <toastydeath> bolt circle drill
[06:27:39] <jmkasunich> I ask again - did you ever try spinning it with just the one disk?
[06:28:29] <Jymmm> jmkasunich no, now that I think about it, but I think th ebiggest problem is the washers, they have a LOT of play in them and with that funky acme nut, it's not easy at all to tighten properly
[06:29:59] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: if its the washers, it will vibrate with a grindstone too.... so does it?
[06:30:17] <Jymmm> jmkasunich a bit yes,
[06:30:31] <Jymmm> I'm using the grinder as a polishing
[06:30:42] <jmkasunich> buffing wheels?
[06:30:49] <Jymmm> cotton
[06:35:06] <Jymmm> well half the grinder that is =)
[06:35:26] <jmkasunich> how large are the parts you need to sand?
[06:35:48] <jmkasunich> can you use a 6" disk? a 4" one? a 2" one? a 6" one with a 2" hole in the middle?
[06:36:02] <Jymmm> from 2" to 24"
[06:38:04] <Jymmm> eric_u thanks I might just get that issue
[06:38:21] <jmkasunich> how can you sand a 24" part on a sander with a smaller disk?
[06:38:33] <Jymmm> just need to find another issue I can use to justify the shipping
[06:38:48] <jmkasunich> you know whats funny - I've seen that issue
[06:38:51] <Jymmm> jmkasunich It's 24" long, up to 2" thick
[06:38:53] <jmkasunich> I think I had it at one time
[06:39:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich is it worth it?
[06:39:22] <jmkasunich> thats the thing - I have no clue where the issue is, if I even still have it
[06:39:32] <jmkasunich> so I can't look to see the details
[06:40:05] <jmkasunich> for all we know, the first instruction is "go buy an nice cast iron disk, a shaft, and some bearings, then we'll build the table and stuff
[06:40:39] <Jymmm> that's what I was thinking already.
[06:41:08] <jmkasunich> but buying the key mechanical parts is gonna cost you more than you want to pay
[06:41:14] <toastydeath> can you hit ebay up
[06:41:17] <toastydeath> and buy a good unit
[06:41:19] <toastydeath> used?
[06:41:38] <Jymmm> Well, I'm looking at a $800 sander, if I can get away with less I'd like to
[06:41:52] <Jymmm> i just can't jutify that right now
[06:41:56] <toastydeath> oh, yeah, this is a sander
[06:42:02] <toastydeath> ha
[06:42:18] <toastydeath> i was thinking grinder
[06:42:19] <Jymmm> screw it, 12" disc on the table saw
[06:42:36] <toastydeath> that sounds like a disaster waiting to happen
[06:43:05] <Jymmm> I'd grind down the pointy things first
[06:43:06] <Jymmm> =)
[06:43:11] <jmkasunich> http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=1809
[06:43:14] <toastydeath> that's not really the issue so much
[06:43:28] <toastydeath> but if it works
[06:43:50] <toastydeath> i'd be afraid of bending something
[06:44:00] <Jymmm> bending?
[06:44:05] <toastydeath> bearings, spindle
[06:44:06] <toastydeath> something
[06:44:17] <jmkasunich> http://www.kayakforum.com/cgi-bin/Building/index.cgi/noframes/read/117869
[06:44:21] <Jymmm> toastydeath I'm using 400 grit, not that much pressure
[06:44:37] <toastydeath> well you're doing wood, not metal, right?
[06:44:41] <Jymmm> plastic
[06:44:43] <toastydeath> oh
[06:44:47] <toastydeath> uhm
[06:44:54] <toastydeath> plastic?
[06:44:59] <toastydeath> without kerosene?
[06:45:06] <Jymmm> acrylic
[06:45:10] <toastydeath> without kerosene?
[06:45:35] <Jymmm> who needs kerosene when you have nitro
[06:45:41] <toastydeath> does it work without kerosene? i've not personally seen someone work plastics without kerosene
[06:45:51] <toastydeath> and it seems like it would get into the motor on a table saw
[06:45:55] <jmkasunich> kerosene for what?
[06:46:02] <jmkasunich> lube?
[06:46:09] <toastydeath> plastics of all kinds LOVE kerosene
[06:46:15] <toastydeath> for lubrication, yes
[06:46:41] <Jymmm> toastydeath you mean a big blob where the sheet of plastic was
[06:46:44] <jmkasunich> not all kinds - some plastics craze and crack and get cloudy if you hit them with hydrocarbons (kero, gasoline, etc)
[06:47:00] <toastydeath> jymmm: no
[06:47:08] <toastydeath> some do, yes
[06:47:17] <toastydeath> most love the stuff
[06:47:23] <Jymmm> well, i don't need any lubee in this respect
[06:47:35] <toastydeath> have you done trial sanding
[06:47:45] <toastydeath> to see if you can do what you want without burning the plastic up
[06:47:50] <Jymmm> yep
[06:47:53] <toastydeath> cool
[06:48:10] <jmkasunich> what did you do the trial sanding on?
[06:48:36] <Jymmm> acrylic
[06:48:41] <jmkasunich> duh
[06:48:45] <toastydeath> what machine
[06:48:47] <jmkasunich> what machine did you do it on
[06:48:59] <Jymmm> the grinder
[06:49:06] <jmkasunich> at what surface speed?
[06:49:26] <jmkasunich> if the grinder worked for trial, why not use it for real?
[06:49:32] <toastydeath> srs
[06:49:46] <Jymmm> jmkasunich worked for round discs, not flat edges
[06:49:56] <jmkasunich> http://www.amazon.com/Freud-CD008-8-Inch-Calibration-Sanding/dp/B00004RK0I
[06:50:20] <toastydeath> you can grind gently on the side of the grinder
[06:50:23] <toastydeath> just don't push
[06:50:47] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: did you sand on the grinder? or were you using the grinding wheel?
[06:51:12] <Jymmm> jmkasunich the discs I made with 320 grit PSA
[06:52:11] <jmkasunich> this is very frustrating
[06:52:27] <jmkasunich> YOU may understand exactly what you mean, but the rest of don't have a clue
[06:52:36] <toastydeath> signed.
[06:52:43] <jmkasunich> you stuck a PSA disk on the side of the grinding wheel?
[06:53:37] <toastydeath> or on the circumfrence?
[06:53:42] <Jymmm> jmkasunich No, the two discs that I made on the cnc, that i explained earlier, with the piece of plastic on it so the sandpaper would have a nice smooth surface to adhere to
[06:53:58] <jmkasunich> I thought you said that bounced around and was useless?
[06:54:06] <jmkasunich> now you say you got acceptable results with it
[06:55:17] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: <Jymmm> jmkasunich worked for round discs, not flat edges
[06:55:32] <toastydeath> i am so confused.
[06:55:35] <jmkasunich> ditto
[06:55:53] <Jymmm> it would gouge flat edges, if I sanded the edge of a 1/4" thick 4" diameter disc, it was okey
[06:56:22] <Jymmm> If I had a flat edge that was 6" or longer, it would gouge it
[06:56:43] <jmkasunich> because only part of the edge was on the wheel at once
[06:56:54] <toastydeath> holy crap you're trying to do that on a disc sander
[06:56:57] <jmkasunich> thats why I asked you how big the parts are
[06:57:15] <Jymmm> it's was a 6" sanding disc
[06:57:18] <jmkasunich> if you are trying to sand a 24" edge it will NEVER work
[06:57:25] <jmkasunich> on ANY disk sander
[06:57:43] <jmkasunich> hey - waits a minute
[06:57:57] <Jymmm> Well, that's what the local plastuic fab shop uses for 48" aquarim tanks
[06:58:10] <jmkasunich> are you always gonna be sanding the edges of not-terribly-thick stuff?
[06:58:12] <Jymmm> a 12" disc snader
[06:58:32] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yep, 2" thickness max
[06:58:38] <jmkasunich> the local plastic fab shop has a good sander (like $1000 good) and lots of practice
[06:58:57] <toastydeath> probably way more than that
[06:58:58] <toastydeath> but you get the idea
[06:59:01] <Jymmm> heh, not really.
[06:59:08] <jmkasunich> getting a straight edge on somethign that is bigger than the wheel diameter depends entirely on operator skill
[06:59:17] <toastydeath> and machine prep
[06:59:33] <toastydeath> which i guess does tie into op skill
[06:59:43] <jmkasunich> well, we're talking about a disk sander here - I bet the parts are hand-held
[06:59:50] <toastydeath> yeah
[06:59:59] <toastydeath> if the disk was a cone
[07:00:05] <toastydeath> you could probably get a flat edge
[07:00:14] <toastydeath> like, with the pointy part high
[07:00:15] <toastydeath> instead of low
[07:00:32] <toastydeath> so the sandpaper came into the part rather than parallel to, or gounging in
[07:00:53] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: you have a CNC rounter, right?
[07:00:59] <Jymmm> yep
[07:01:04] <jmkasunich> have you considered a sanding drum in the router?
[07:01:23] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yeha, but I edge clamp in the machine right now
[07:01:52] <toastydeath> i think what he might be suggesting is to turn the spindle on
[07:01:56] <toastydeath> and just use it that way
[07:01:59] <toastydeath> push it by hand.
[07:02:12] <jmkasunich> actually I was considering using the CNC capabilities
[07:02:13] <toastydeath> oh
[07:02:25] <toastydeath> i've sanded crap in a lathe before
[07:02:25] <toastydeath> cnc
[07:02:53] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: can you get suitably fine sanding belts? or only disks?
[07:02:54] <Jymmm> jmkasunich the lowest speed on my spindle is 8k
[07:03:07] <Jymmm> jmkasunich belts and discs
[07:03:08] <toastydeath> kerosene!
[07:03:23] <jmkasunich> and what is the speed of the disk sander?
[07:03:39] <toastydeath> set up two posts on the table, and bring the spindle barely into contact
[07:03:53] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: what is the speed of the disk sander?
[07:03:55] <jmkasunich> 1800?
[07:03:57] <jmkasunich> 3600?
[07:04:57] <jmkasunich> a 1" drum at 8000 is slower than a 6" disk at 1800, and a LOT slower than a 6" disk at 3600
[07:05:17] <jmkasunich> crap - 3am, the dog is whining to go out, and I need to sleep
[07:05:19] <jmkasunich> goodnight
[07:05:22] <toastydeath> night sir
[07:06:14] <Jymmm> g;night jmkasunich
[07:06:52] <Jymmm> Okey, maybe I'll make a jig to clmp the pieces in so I can edge send them
[07:07:24] <Jymmm> * Jymmm REALLY needs to get a laser pointer on this machine of mine.
[07:07:45] <ds3> why haven't you?
[07:08:07] <Jymmm> havne't found one that I can mount and calibrate
[07:08:19] <Jymmm> most are the $0.99 ones that have cheap thin walls
[07:08:39] <Jymmm> tighten a set screw and you've bent it out of wack
[07:08:56] <toastydeath> what do you use a laser for
[07:09:16] <ds3> make a case for them, they slide out of the cyclinder pretty easily
[07:09:22] <Jymmm> toastydeath to set XY, and just ofset it from the REAL center of the spindle
[07:09:30] <Jymmm> ds3 no lather =)
[07:09:33] <Jymmm> lathe
[07:09:44] <toastydeath> what's wrong with using a center finder?
[07:09:52] <Jymmm> PITA
[07:09:57] <toastydeath> ...?
[07:10:02] <Jymmm> Pain In the Ass
[07:10:05] <toastydeath> it takes like two seconds!
[07:10:18] <ds3> Jymmm: why you need a lathe to make it?
[07:10:30] <Jymmm> No, mount the cneter finder, unclamp it, chuck up a bit, tighten it down, etc
[07:10:34] <ds3> modeling clay + peice of PVC tube
[07:10:55] <Jymmm> I want it accurate?!
[07:11:23] <ds3> a lathe won't help you there
[07:11:37] <ds3> the lense module is not concentric to the beam
[07:11:48] <ds3> so you will need to adjust it
[07:12:33] <Jymmm> Sure, but PVC isn't made with tight tolerances
[07:12:48] <ds3> and?
[07:13:00] <ds3> was suggesting you hold it with modeling clay so it can be adjusted
[07:13:03] <Jymmm> i don't want to try and calibrate it every 15 minute
[07:13:17] <ds3> you want to put this on the spindle?
[07:13:22] <toastydeath> so use an edge finder!
[07:13:31] <Jymmm> ds3 No, on the spindle mount
[07:13:36] <ds3> Hmmmm
[07:13:59] <ds3> okay, then drill and tap the PVC tube and use a pair of nylon screws to clamp the laser module and allow for adjustment
[07:14:01] <Jymmm> ds3 there is a spot already with a 1/2" hole and set screw for a shaft
[07:14:13] <ds3> have a nylon locknut to prevent vibration from effecting it
[07:14:39] <Jymmm> ds3 No, more liek this
http://cgi.ebay.com/Adjustable-LASER-POINTER-SIGHT-AIM-Module-remote-switch_W0QQitemZ190097640956QQcategoryZ106974QQcmdZViewItem
[07:15:47] <toastydeath> can you use a piece of paper?
[07:15:49] <ds3> there is no set screw on the module in this picture
[07:15:53] <toastydeath> instead?
[07:16:22] <Jymmm> ds3 2nd pick
[07:16:23] <ds3> toastydeath: and put a dowel pin in the spindle?
[07:16:30] <toastydeath> no, and just use the cutter
[07:16:42] <toastydeath> it'll put you inside 5 thousandths
[07:16:50] <toastydeath> with a known cutter diameter
[07:17:03] <ds3> toastydeath: with the cutting spinning at 8K?
[07:17:08] <toastydeath> no, cutter off
[07:17:13] <skullworks-PGAB> WTF? >>>
http://www.google.com/tisp/install.html
[07:17:30] <toastydeath> rotate it by hand so the thick part is closest to the work
[07:17:37] <toastydeath> or the blade, as it were
[07:18:01] <toastydeath> i guess you could use a dowel pin
[07:18:03] <toastydeath> if you wanted to be pedantic
[07:18:05] <ds3> Jymmm: I don't see anything the picture that won't work with a $0.99 pointer
[07:18:35] <ds3> toastydeath: tried it once and couldn't get the hang of having to move 2 things to do that
[07:18:48] <toastydeath> hmm.
[07:19:47] <toastydeath> dunno, that's how i do stuff when i don't really care about 5 thou
[07:20:06] <ds3> I have better luck using a wiggler to point to the edge
[07:20:53] <ds3> but an 8KRPM wiggler will hurt a bit trying to center it ;)
[07:21:00] <toastydeath> lol
[07:21:08] <toastydeath> you can use a dial indicator
[07:21:13] <toastydeath> dial test indicator, sry
[07:21:26] <toastydeath> if you want center finder/wiggler accuracy
[07:21:31] <toastydeath> or better than
[07:21:49] <ds3> wiggler is suppose to be accurate?!
[07:21:54] <toastydeath> under a thou
[07:22:01] <ds3> did not know that
[07:22:25] <ds3> I learned to use that to locate a prick punch so I figure it is not very accurate
[07:22:42] <toastydeath> locating scribe marks and punch marks is inherently inaccurate
[07:22:49] <toastydeath> but finding edges or holes is a lot more accurate
[07:23:08] <toastydeath> that's what the balls are for
[07:23:15] <toastydeath> it works just like an edge finder at that point
[07:23:23] <toastydeath> except an edge finder is a lot safter at 8k
[07:24:41] <ds3> never figured out how to use the balls
[07:24:48] <toastydeath> measure ball diameter
[07:24:55] <toastydeath> get it spinning
[07:24:57] <toastydeath> bring it up to the edge
[07:25:04] <toastydeath> when it centers, you are close
[07:25:05] <toastydeath> when it kicks out again
[07:25:10] <toastydeath> you are tehre
[07:25:12] <toastydeath> *there
[07:25:27] <toastydeath> the radius of the ball away from your spindle centerline
[07:25:40] <toastydeath> if you do it a couple times you can get it to a few tenths
[07:25:46] <ds3> but when it kicks out, am I not ~1thou pass?
[07:25:56] <toastydeath> only if you are jogging in thousandths
[07:25:57] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB april Fools
[07:26:28] <ds3> Hmmmm doesn't seem to make sense for it to kick out if it is exactly at the contact point
[07:26:49] <toastydeath> if the radius of the ball is .05
[07:27:01] <toastydeath> you can't tell how true it is running
[07:27:03] <toastydeath> by eye alone
[07:27:05] <toastydeath> and you will never get TO .05
[07:27:15] <toastydeath> it will always be above .05 away
[07:27:33] <ds3> oh so that's the principle behind it
[07:27:49] <toastydeath> indeed
[07:28:13] <toastydeath> centerfinders do the exact same thing, except they just kick out
[07:28:15] <toastydeath> and slide to the side
[07:28:22] <toastydeath> much less chaotic
[07:28:33] <ds3> what is a center finder in this context?
[07:28:44] <ds3> the one thing I know by that name is the fish tailed thing
[07:29:06] <toastydeath> http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1959&category=
[07:29:33] <toastydeath> the ends float
[07:30:01] <ds3> that's the pointy end?
[07:30:05] <Jymmm> ok, so how do you use a center/edge finder?
[07:30:05] <toastydeath> both ends
[07:30:08] <toastydeath> both ends float
[07:30:18] <ds3> the other end is an edge finder (or that's what i know it as)
[07:30:24] <toastydeath> the pointy end is for picking up small circles and scribe marks
[07:30:38] <toastydeath> the cylinder is for picking up large holes and edges to a greater degree of accuracy
[07:30:49] <toastydeath> you pop the edge finder into the spindle
[07:30:50] <ds3> Jymmm: spin it up; approach and edge; keep aproaching til it moves off to the side; at that point, the spindle is exactly 1/2 of the diameter out
[07:31:04] <toastydeath> yeah, what he said =)
[07:31:28] <Jymmm> how far off the side?
[07:31:41] <toastydeath> it just goes
[07:31:51] <toastydeath> sometimes it bounces back and forth between center and out
[07:31:53] <toastydeath> that's the same
[07:32:00] <ds3> depends on the edge finder you get... but the sequence is: it will appear centered; then all of a sudden it will snap to one side
[07:32:01] <toastydeath> but it always goes the same distance, there is no halfway
[07:32:06] <Jymmm> but never inbetween?
[07:32:11] <toastydeath> correct
[07:32:15] <ds3> there are versions that will make a noise when it is there
[07:32:18] <Jymmm> why not?
[07:32:30] <Jymmm> why not never inbetween?
[07:32:29] <toastydeath> because it works on inertia and balance
[07:32:32] <toastydeath> not friction
[07:32:52] <toastydeath> the slightest bit out of balance will send it to the side
[07:32:53] <ds3> but most edge finders are not rated for 8K ;)
[07:32:59] <toastydeath> and going to the side forces it out further
[07:33:04] <toastydeath> they make digital edge finders
[07:33:09] <Jymmm> ds3 good to know
[07:33:17] <ds3> i was taught to run them at about 1K-1.2K
[07:33:26] <Jymmm> I think I'll stick with the idea of a $10 laser pointer
[07:33:30] <ds3> too slow and it won't snap nicely; too fast the spring gets "interesting"
[07:33:46] <ds3> you can get edge finders cheaper then $10
[07:34:01] <Jymmm> but I won't have to chuck it up
[07:34:03] <toastydeath> if you want to get real accurate, you use a dial test indicator and a parallel
[07:34:11] <toastydeath> you can get into millionths of an inch doing it that way.
[07:34:19] <Jymmm> No, just something better than my flashlight
[07:34:23] <toastydeath> which is only realistically useful on a jig borer
[07:34:41] <toastydeath> jymmm: use a piece of paper.
[07:34:44] <ds3> toastydeath; why not just put a renishaw probe in and...
[07:34:54] <toastydeath> renishaw probes aren't as accurate.
[07:34:53] <Jymmm> toastydeath Nah, flashlight is mrore accurate
[07:35:00] <ds3> really? Hmmmm
[07:35:04] <toastydeath> well to be fair
[07:35:10] <toastydeath> it depends on the style of probe
[07:35:16] <toastydeath> most renishaw probes stop at .0001
[07:35:30] <skullworks-PGAB> .0001 mm
[07:36:03] <toastydeath> the laser inferometer probes will go to millionths
[07:36:22] <toastydeath> but it's easier to get a 50 millionth indicator and use that
[07:36:44] <toastydeath> and considerably less expensive than the probe
[07:37:59] <toastydeath> anyway i am going to bed
[07:38:02] <toastydeath> goodnight sirs
[07:38:17] <ds3> hmmm
[07:38:31] <ds3> what about the age old method of approaching the material with a cutter and just touch off?
[07:38:32] <skullworks-PGAB> http://www.google.com/tisp/
[07:38:49] <skullworks-PGAB> someone planted a good joke
[07:39:03] <ds3> skullworks-PGAB: probally an employee
[07:39:25] <skullworks-PGAB> I bet - but there are pages of this stuff
[07:40:08] <skullworks-PGAB> it was well thought out - I like the google toolbar plugin which monitors data "Flow".
[07:42:42] <skullworks-PGAB> Thats what it is... An Offical Google April fools prank.
[08:02:55] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB: [04/01 00:25] <Jymmm> skullworks-PGAB april Fools
[08:54:09] <SWPadnos_> SWPadnos_ is now known as SWPadnos
[08:54:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos
[08:55:01] <alex_joni> that's automatic
[08:55:03] <alex_joni> hi Jymmm
[08:55:23] <Jymmm> the nick change is automatic?
[08:56:51] <Jymmm> hi alex_joni
[08:57:54] <Guest332> I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction.I recently reinstalled emc2 and realized that there is no longer a section to define the number of units per (mm,inch ) This is under the xyza stepper ini file
[09:01:24] <alex_joni> sure there is
[09:01:38] <alex_joni> Guest332: it's called INPUT_SCALE just as it has always been
[09:01:46] <Guest332> oh my bad
[09:01:56] <alex_joni> Guest332: no worries
[09:02:10] <Guest332> sorry i must have been doing it wrong i'll check that out thats
[09:02:12] <Guest332> thanks
[09:02:16] <alex_joni> Jymmm: yeah, some clients do that.. log in with a different nick, and change it when the old one dies
[09:02:24] <Jymmm> ah
[09:25:10] <incase> Hi everyone.
[09:26:15] <alex_joni> hi
[09:27:22] <incase> Anyone around who is knowledgable in the hardware-support area in emc? I'm looking into adding support for the EMIS/SMC stepper controllers, but quite frankly, I'm lost how and where to add it. I have working code for going a step in any direction, but that's probably less than half the work needed!?
[09:29:38] <alex_joni> incase: maybe it's usefull to tell us what EMIS/SMC is ?
[09:29:55] <alex_joni> is that that strange not step/dir driver?
[09:30:06] <incase> exactly.
[09:30:41] <alex_joni> you basicly need to replace or extend stepgen
[09:31:00] <alex_joni> found in emc2/src/hal/components/stepgen.c
[09:31:15] <alex_joni> I would suggest adding another stepping type or similar
[09:31:49] <incase> A friend and I are working on a microcontroller based adapter though which would translate step/dir based controll into the "strange" EMIS style controll. But direct support in EMC would be nicer.
[09:32:43] <incase> Thanks for the pointer.
[09:34:15] <incase> Do I see it right that stepgen is actually a kernel module?
[09:56:22] <incase> Hmm, stepgen seems not to be well documented when it comes to adding this unusual stepper controller.
[09:57:25] <anonimasu> hi
[10:14:01] <alex_joni> incase: yes, it is a kernel module
[10:14:11] <alex_joni> it needs to run in real-time to ouput 50kHz pulses or so
[10:14:26] <alex_joni> incase: what I don't get is how you can make the adapter
[10:14:51] <alex_joni> iirc (it's been more than half a year since I looked at that board) it can only move one axis at a time
[10:26:28] <anonimasu> :)
[10:48:31] <feoc2> ello
[10:49:57] <anonimasu> hi
[10:55:01] <skullworks-PGAB> or maybe not?
[11:06:01] <feoc2> having a join 0 following error on my machine
[11:06:22] <feoc2> it moves about an inch or so and then turns off with joint 0 error
[11:06:56] <skullworks-PGAB> encoder scale is not matching
[11:07:12] <feoc2> how do i sort that?
[11:07:28] <skullworks-PGAB> paging Alex...
[11:09:05] <skullworks-PGAB> I have not really got into the internals since EMC2 was offically released.
[11:09:12] <feoc2> ah ic
[11:09:32] <skullworks-PGAB> I'm trying to get caught up while building my hardware.
[11:10:15] <skullworks-PGAB> HAL now is about 70% of everything
[11:11:05] <feoc2> yah
[11:11:19] <feoc2> i might try swaping the encoder channels around
[11:11:37] <skullworks-PGAB> there are some gui issues and other stuff but HAL is the master widget
[11:11:48] <feoc2> yeah
[11:12:04] <feoc2> im fiding this a huge learning curve
[11:12:34] <skullworks-PGAB> Yes, as a builder there is
[11:12:42] <feoc2> ill pop back later when people are awake
[11:12:50] <skullworks-PGAB> then using it will be a breeze
[11:13:22] <skullworks-PGAB> * skullworks-PGAB is going to take a nap.
[11:13:33] <feoc2> catch you later
[11:15:56] <skullworks-PGAB> k
[11:28:16] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is back
[11:28:31] <alex_joni> feoc2: what's the issue?
[11:29:05] <alex_joni> skullworks-PGAB: that's a big overstatement (HAL beeing 70% of everything)
[11:29:15] <alex_joni> it sure is 70% of the stuff that is configurable
[11:29:24] <alex_joni> but it's way less if you talk about all emc2
[11:53:16] <feoc2> alex_joni im getting joint 0 following errors when i try to motion the axis
[11:53:31] <feoc2> it moves about an inch or so and then turns off with joint 0 error
[11:55:06] <feoc2> il be back later need to get somthing to eat
[11:56:16] <alex_joni> hmm.. maybe it would be best if you describe your setup
[11:56:20] <alex_joni> steppers vs. servos
[11:56:21] <alex_joni> encoders?
[11:56:29] <alex_joni> then the next would be ini file, etc
[12:17:14] <kwajstabo> hello
[12:18:14] <alex_joni> hi
[12:20:00] <kwajstabo> i have 4 axis and i want to make circle with 2 axis and at the same time with other two axis: G3 x10 y10 R20 z10 a10 R20
[12:20:36] <kwajstabo> and i get an error: multiple R words in one line
[12:20:58] <kwajstabo> how can i make two circles at the same time then?
[12:24:51] <alex_joni> you can't
[12:24:58] <alex_joni> the RS274 standard doesn't allow that
[12:25:41] <kwajstabo> so than i should cut the circle to small lines?
[12:25:55] <kwajstabo> aor is there some other option?
[12:26:39] <alex_joni> I don't think you can interpolate 2 circles like you want ...
[12:52:11] <CIA-19> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/debian/emc2.files.in: emclog.tcl is gone
[13:23:37] <feoc2> alex_joni you about?
[13:23:58] <alex_joni> yup
[13:24:08] <feoc2> its a servo setup
[13:24:10] <alex_joni> about to leave :P
[13:24:12] <alex_joni> (kidding)
[13:24:25] <feoc2> :)
[13:24:26] <alex_joni> feoc2: go on, any information can provide valuable
[13:24:33] <feoc2> what you need to know?
[13:24:43] <alex_joni> motors, encoders, servocard, etc
[13:24:46] <feoc2> its a servomate driver board
[13:24:52] <feoc2> encoders are litton
[13:25:00] <alex_joni> not interested in brands
[13:25:03] <alex_joni> more like specs
[13:25:08] <alex_joni> encoder = how many cpr
[13:25:22] <feoc2> dont know to be honest
[13:25:33] <alex_joni> how do the motors drive the machine (rack&pinion?, direct drive?, ballscrew?)
[13:26:00] <alex_joni> what card did you use in the PC?
[13:27:00] <feoc2> 1000 cpm aparetly
[13:27:16] <feoc2> ball and screw
[13:27:27] <alex_joni> feoc2: you need information like that for stating min_ferror and ferror
[13:27:30] <feoc2> using mesa any io
[13:27:43] <alex_joni> mesa 5i20 ?
[13:27:46] <feoc2> yah
[13:27:57] <alex_joni> ok..
[13:28:09] <feoc2> using the analog converter board aswell
[13:28:11] <alex_joni> how did you tune PID?
[13:28:21] <alex_joni> you do know you need to do that.. right?
[13:28:28] <feoc2> err nope
[13:28:44] <feoc2> how do i do that?
[13:29:03] <alex_joni> feoc2: I suggest you first read about PID in general :)
[13:29:08] <alex_joni> and a bit about motor control
[13:29:33] <alex_joni> I put a bit into the emc2 manual, but it's far from what you need to know to successfully tune your setup
[13:29:42] <alex_joni> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.1/html/motion/pid_theory/index.html
[13:30:15] <feoc2> ok
[13:30:28] <alex_joni> there is a link to wikipedia there, which is also very usefull
[13:30:38] <feoc2> so my problem is the pid isnt setup?
[13:31:40] <alex_joni> feoc2: amongst other possible problems
[13:31:56] <alex_joni> but this is a definite problem.. PID needs tuning to work on your setup
[13:32:22] <alex_joni> after that you need to set velocities, accelerations
[13:32:31] <alex_joni> and ferror limits, and deadband
[13:32:32] <feoc2> ok
[13:32:56] <alex_joni> some of this is described in the emc2 manual
[13:32:59] <feoc2> ok
[13:33:14] <feoc2> it does motor the machine
[13:33:21] <feoc2> and can do small 0010 steps
[13:33:31] <alex_joni> feoc2: moving and moving with control are two completely different things
[13:33:32] <feoc2> but the larger movements get the follow error
[13:33:39] <feoc2> true
[13:33:47] <alex_joni> if the command goes faster as the motors can, then you get ferror
[13:34:34] <feoc2> oh
[13:34:57] <alex_joni> following error is the deviation between commanded and acutal position
[13:35:25] <alex_joni> you can probably reduce acceleration and get rid of the ferror's, but that DOESN'T mean the machine is tuned properly
[13:35:42] <alex_joni> you can probably tune the PID right, and get lots more out of the motors
[13:36:03] <feoc2> ok
[13:36:16] <CIA-19> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man3/ (hal_exit.3hal rtapi_get_time.3rtapi rtapi_prio.3rtapi): fix wrong TH header (referring to a different section)
[13:36:37] <feoc2> ill go have a read
[13:36:41] <feoc2> catch you later
[13:36:45] <feoc2> cheers for the help
[13:36:45] <alex_joni> feoc2: that's always best ;)
[13:36:55] <alex_joni> no sweat.. remember to write down where you had problems
[13:37:06] <alex_joni> and especially parts where docs are lacking
[13:37:06] <feoc2> ok will do
[13:37:12] <feoc2> sure ill be back :)
[13:37:18] <alex_joni> hope so :)
[13:37:33] <alex_joni> there are lots others around who can help if I'm not around..
[13:37:50] <feoc2> ty
[13:46:14] <CIA-19> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/axis.1: provide manpage for AXIS
[13:50:42] <steves_logging> steves_logging is now known as steve_stallings
[15:41:27] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[15:51:59] <smithy> test
[15:52:23] <smithy> I'm working on home with limits.
[15:52:32] <smithy> added the stuff to the ini
[15:53:10] <smithy> am I right to assume that the parport pin needs to be connected to both limits and homes in HAL?
[15:53:24] <cradek> yes
[15:53:51] <smithy> okay. Thanks
[15:54:27] <smithy> btw I've got a keyswitch that is connected to feedhold. works great.
[15:54:45] <cradek> cool
[15:58:14] <stustev> hello
[16:06:55] <stustev> I see nothing - I am using gaim - how do I connect so I can see the conversation
[16:07:31] <smithy> having a tough time with irc here today.
[16:11:41] <DanielFalck> you are conversing now
[16:11:41] <DanielFalck> can you see this
[16:11:41] <stustev> thank you
[16:11:41] <DanielFalck> stustev: does this show up in bold type for you?
[16:11:41] <stustev> yes
[16:11:41] <stustev> I see there are 40 people in the room. Does that mean there are 40 people using the chat right now or are they connected and not involved?
[16:11:41] <stustev> I see no bold type
[16:13:48] <smithy> I'm not getting home to work from a limit switch.
[16:14:03] <DanielFalck> stustev: when I type your name, on some irc clients, there is some indication that I'm replying to you. My client shows a different color text in the dialog window or the tab
[16:14:11] <DanielFalck> all those names in the side bar, people are doing other stuff, but check in regularly
[16:14:15] <smithy> Hi DanielFalck
[16:14:21] <DanielFalck> smithy: hi
[16:14:27] <smithy> ray here.
[16:14:28] <DanielFalck> is this Ray?
[16:14:39] <smithy> yup
[16:14:45] <DanielFalck> you must be closer to the equator today
[16:15:05] <smithy> a few miles.
[16:17:36] <DanielFalck> smithy: I've been doing a lot more python programming lately
[16:17:36] <DanielFalck> smithy: been working with the vapt/apt360 guys
[16:17:36] <DanielFalck> I think I found a niche
[16:17:37] <DanielFalck> figured out how to make a qcad/dxf to apt geometry converter
[16:17:41] <DanielFalck> irc is wacky today
[16:17:44] <cradek> smithy: lathe-pluto sample configuration has a shared home/limit switch for X axis
[16:18:12] <smithy> ah thanks.
[16:18:50] <cradek> but it's just what you said - the input is hooked to home-sw-in and pos-lim-sw-in
[16:19:06] <cradek> then the rest is in the ini
[16:19:11] <anonimasu> stustev: yes
[16:19:15] <anonimasu> stustev: :)
[16:20:38] <cradek> bbl
[16:22:34] <jmkasunich> smithy: rayh, are you on city sewer or septic (at home)?
[16:23:04] <jmkasunich> if city, the cure for your slow connection problems has been invented!
[16:23:07] <smithy> septic
[16:23:25] <jmkasunich> http://www.google.com/tisp/install.html
[16:23:31] <jmkasunich> bummer
[16:23:52] <alex_joni> hi guys
[16:24:14] <alex_joni> lol @ jmkasunich
[16:25:27] <smithy> The bitch is sitting on that fiber cable in the dark.
[16:25:50] <alex_joni> * alex_joni is afraid to ask
[16:25:55] <alex_joni> cradek: still around?
[16:45:30] <anonimasu> bzzt*click*
[16:48:47] <alex_joni> * alex_joni kicks anonimasu
[16:48:51] <alex_joni> why did you do that for?
[16:49:08] <anonimasu> what's up?
[16:49:41] <alex_joni> not nice to cause netsplits like that :P
[16:49:48] <anonimasu> haha
[16:49:50] <anonimasu> ;)
[16:50:05] <anonimasu> alex_joni: I can do it again if you arent nice ;)
[16:50:18] <alex_joni> :-s
[16:50:24] <anonimasu> mwahahaha!
[16:50:42] <anonimasu> s/mwahahaha!/kekekeke!
[16:51:12] <anonimasu> how are you?
[16:51:48] <alex_joni> ok... I guess
[17:29:02] <alex_joni> anonimasu: that's not nice of you
[17:29:08] <anonimasu> :/
[17:39:59] <CIA-19> 03alex_joni 07TRUNK * 10emc2/docs/man/man1/axis-remote.1: add manpage for axis-remote
[18:10:24] <incase> rehi, sorry I've beeen offline for a while. alex_joni: I saw the messages in the mailinglist archive for them EMIS/SMC adapters. They _can_ move multiple axis' at the same time it seems, but they can't change the settings for each axis at the same time. But I'm not yet sure wether I'm right or not.
[18:12:30] <alex_joni> incase: ah.. ok, then it might be possible
[18:12:46] <alex_joni> I only searched through the manual, didn't read it fully
[18:13:59] <incase> Well I didn't do yet either. However, PC/NC in the SMC edition seems to be quite capable to move two or even all three axis' at the same time.
[18:15:27] <lewin1> lewin1 is now known as lewing
[18:43:01] <incase> anyway, brb.
[18:55:14] <Jymm> jmkasunich: Uh boy... The "build your own disc snader", um well... elaborate plans to make a fancy curved wood enclosure, base, top, and table.
[19:01:35] <ds3> Jymm: sinceyou have a router, why not route out a replacement disc? sheet stock of 6061 is pretty flat
[19:18:10] <Jymm> ds3 no cooling
[19:18:20] <Jymm> Jymm is now known as Jymmm
[19:18:46] <Jymmm> ds3 Also, not sure how I would attach it to a shaft
[19:24:20] <ds3> aluminum should be doable dry
[19:24:25] <ds3> mist some WD40 on it
[19:24:42] <ds3> how slow can you go?
[19:24:50] <Jymmm> 8k
[19:25:37] <anonimasu> do you have compressed air?
[19:25:45] <Jymmm> nope
[19:26:18] <anonimasu> Jymmm: well, technically it should work out, but I've never dont aluminium at 8krpm
[19:26:19] <anonimasu> :D
[19:29:21] <Jymmm> http://cgi.ebay.com/3-4HP-10-ELECTRIC-DISC-SANDER-CAST-IRON-BASE-DISC_W0QQitemZ250100609434QQcategoryZ20782QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[20:20:47] <alex_joni> "A friend of mine just told me about a carton of wine he saw in Australia. Somewhere on the side of the carton it said: "This product may contain traces of nut and fish." FISH??!"
[20:26:55] <alex_joni> http://pastebin.ca/raw/405753
[20:43:13] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Yeah, they use fish guts as food for the grape vines in the field.
[20:47:35] <Jymmm> nut/fish are highly allergic reaction items, lots of things have those warnings now. Just like in California MOST bldgs have signs near the entrances:
[20:47:35] <Jymmm> WARNING
[20:47:36] <Jymmm> THIS FACILITY CONTAINS ONE
[20:47:36] <Jymmm> OR MORE CHEMICALS KNOWN
[20:47:36] <Jymmm> TO THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
[20:47:36] <Jymmm> TO CAUSE CANCER, BIRTH
[20:47:38] <Jymmm> DEFECTS OR REPRODUCTIVE HARM
[20:47:59] <Jymmm> Calif prop 65
[20:48:00] <jmkasunich> jeez
[20:48:15] <jmkasunich> * jmkasunich wonders about california
[20:48:24] <jmkasunich> you couldn't pay me to live there
[20:48:29] <Jymmm> Well, it's the whole full disclosure thing
[20:48:57] <Jymmm> Blame it on corp coverups.
[20:50:20] <wallyGL> hi everyone.. i have a question regarding axis.ini... in the documentation it says [TRAJ][MAX_VELOCITY] is in user unit per second... is [AXIS_0][MAX_VELOCITY] also in user unit per second or this is a percent value? ... 1.2 means 120% ?
[20:51:24] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/ (configure configure.in): I think I finally got this test right
[20:51:29] <jmkasunich> user units per second
[20:51:55] <Jymmm> jmkasunich: how did you come to the fact that a 1" drum sander @ 8k was slower than a 6" disc @ 2k ?
[20:52:48] <alex_joni> Jymmm: tangential velocity
[20:52:58] <alex_joni> omega
[20:53:09] <Jymmm> if the drum was (close to) 6", I can understand, but 1" ?
[20:53:31] <jmkasunich> 1" diameter times pi times 8000 = 25120 inches/min = 2093 ft/min
[20:54:07] <jmkasunich> 6" dia times pi time 1800 = 33912 in/min = 2826 ft/min
[20:54:30] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/hal/classicladder/sequential.h: don't assume chars are signed
[20:54:44] <Jymmm> jmkasunich weird. Just doens't seem right =)
[20:54:50] <jmkasunich> why not?
[20:55:01] <Jymmm> @ 1" would seem to be much faster.
[20:55:18] <jmkasunich> surface speed
[20:55:39] <Jymmm> I believe ya, just seem funny is all =)
[20:55:44] <jmkasunich> the earth only turns one rev per DAY, but the surface speed at the equator is over 1000 mph
[21:17:34] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/emc/rs274ngc/interp_read.cc: this test allowed nonprintable characters and assumed signed chars.
[21:25:36] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: LOL Al Gore will be at the ESC talking about the Intarweb he invented!
[21:27:03] <ds3> 8000KRPM w/0.25 carbide cutter or even 0.50 should be just fine on Al (Surface speeds of about 500-1000SFM)
[21:28:09] <jmkasunich> ds3: as long as you have at least a little lube/coolant
[21:28:22] <ds3> I did suggest misting it with WD40
[21:28:26] <jmkasunich> right
[21:28:42] <ds3> but will the spindle stall? ;)
[21:28:49] <jmkasunich> but that might not work for jymmm, since his machine is a woodworking machine and might even have a wood table
[21:28:53] <Jymmm> 1000SFM == IPM ???
[21:29:04] <jmkasunich> SFM = surface feet per minute
[21:29:26] <ds3> HSS cutters want about 300SFM on Al; Carbide is anywhere from 2x-4x that
[21:29:30] <Jymmm> 83 IPS ?
[21:29:55] <jmkasunich> even if the table is metal, he'll have to clean very carefully before cutting wood again if he doesn't want wd40 on his wood
[21:30:08] <ds3> *nod* it would be messy
[21:30:14] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: you DO understand the differnce between cutter surface speed and feed, right?
[21:30:26] <Jymmm> I have some water based tapping/cutting fluid...
[21:30:34] <Jymmm> jmkasunich nOpe, that's why I asked.
[21:30:36] <ds3> or he can drill/ream the center hole to size; and use that to bolt it to a sacrificial peice of MDF
[21:31:01] <ds3> the MDF should catch most of the spray
[21:31:05] <jmkasunich> speeds and feeds.....
[21:31:55] <jmkasunich> http://www.efunda.com/processes/machining/chip_formation_2.cfm
[21:32:04] <Jymmm> I think I'd rather get/find a cast iron disc if at all possible. There is a Sears parts in SJ and I bet they have an ancient model sander that used cast iron and just buy the disc from them.
[21:32:26] <ds3> Jymmm: have you done a walk through Triangle yet?
[21:32:33] <jmkasunich> whatever you get needs to fit your motor shaft perfectly
[21:32:34] <Jymmm> d3 not lately
[21:32:51] <Jymmm> jmkasunich Yeah, hopefully with a key too
[21:33:23] <ds3> Jymmm : he might just have the part you need in some corner ;)
[21:33:28] <jmkasunich> Jymmm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_speed
[21:33:32] <Jymmm> ds3 they're probably closed today too. Maybe I'll try to stop by triabgle later this week
[21:33:40] <ds3> yeah, he's close sunday :(
[21:33:50] <jmkasunich> read and understand that article
[21:34:03] <ds3> only caveat there is, does it need a keyway!
[21:34:52] <Jymmm> ds3 Well, I don't have a motor, so I can either use my grinder and a pulley, but then I'll need to make the shaft and bearing mounts.
[21:35:08] <jmkasunich> what is triangle?
[21:35:19] <Jymmm> jmkasunich surplus machine place
[21:35:24] <ds3> jmkasunich: local industrial surplus/junk dealer
[21:35:26] <Jymmm> surplus industrial equip
[21:35:38] <jmkasunich> well hells bells - why don't you just look for a sander there?
[21:35:45] <ds3> hahahahaahah
[21:35:52] <Jymmm> jmkasunich It's not that kind of place =)
[21:36:01] <ds3> hey might have a sander
[21:36:14] <Jymmm> ds3 Where the back wall? LOL
[21:36:16] <jmkasunich> industrial surplus = bunches of old machines and stuff
[21:36:26] <ds3> last month, he had 2 bridge port clones, an atlas lathe, and the hardinge turret
[21:36:32] <Jymmm> jmkasunich think ghetto industrial surplus
[21:36:43] <Jymmm> fancy junk yard
[21:36:44] <jmkasunich> or is this guy heavy on the "and stuff" and light on the "bunches of old machines"?
[21:36:44] <ds3> Jymmm: no, near the front left of the entrance
[21:36:56] <Jymmm> jmkasunich BINGO
[21:37:08] <ds3> jmkasunich: he has both; a lot of it is semiconductor fab equipment
[21:37:13] <jmkasunich> oh
[21:37:22] <Jymmm> or pieces of semi cond fab equip
[21:37:23] <jmkasunich> silicon valley industry
[21:37:35] <jmkasunich> instead of rust belt industry
[21:37:52] <ds3> there are some rust belt stuff but those move quick
[21:38:15] <jmkasunich> Jymmm: did you read that wikipedia article?
[21:38:21] <Jymmm> not yet
[21:38:40] <jmkasunich> It doesn't matter what you use for a sander, or anything else - understanding feeds and speeds will serve you well
[21:38:45] <jmkasunich> read it!
[21:38:58] <ds3> would even explain why sanding on the center of the disk is not very useful ;)
[21:39:06] <jmkasunich> yep
[21:45:53] <Jymmm> http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/oldmachines.htm
[21:50:20] <feoc2> ola
[21:52:41] <feoc2> my brain hurts
[21:52:59] <feoc2> too much joint following errors and PID stuff to read about
[21:56:50] <Jymmm> Damn, already sold =(
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/tls/303927745.html
[22:29:01] <alex_joni> night all
[22:45:06] <Jymmm> night alex_joni
[22:55:30] <ejholmgren> "The Joe Martin Foundation tool collection is not on permanent display"
[22:55:33] <ejholmgren> now?
[22:59:57] <ejholmgren> gah ... april fool's day + internet = bad
[23:20:54] <Jymmm> Jymmm is now known as Jymmmmmm
[23:52:36] <CIA-19> 03cradek 07TRUNK * 10emc2/src/Makefile: I don't understand this; ppc works without it.
[23:55:59] <SWPLinux> nice commit message
[23:56:13] <cradek> I've had several compliments about it already...
[23:57:54] <SWPLinux> shouldn't that be Makefile.in or something though?
[23:58:13] <cradek> there is no Makefile.in
[23:58:16] <SWPLinux> oh - there's only Makefile.inc.in\
[23:58:20] <SWPLinux> -\
