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[00:00:04] <fenn> this rack cabinet has holes for casters but i dont really see how they are supposed to swivel
[00:09:22] <Ziegler> not enough room?
[00:10:10] <fenn> the mounting bracket is recessed within the bottom about 4-5 inches
[00:10:32] <fenn> so when the caster swivels it hits the "baseboard" for lack of a better term
[00:11:23] <fenn> i will just put 2x4's under it i guess
[00:22:35] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:got my usc today
[00:35:15] <skyfox00> usc?
[00:45:38] <skinnypuppy1334> jlmjvm probably refering to
http://jelinux.pico-systems.com/univstep.html
[00:46:49] <skinnypuppy1334> Can't wait to hear how it works for you jlmjvm
[00:48:33] <skyfox00> they do servo controllers to right?
[00:55:19] <skyfox00> what would be funny is to use an old 386sx as a breakout board....(use the isa slots like io and have a parport card for comunication with another computer running emc)
[00:57:51] <jlmjvm> skinnypuppy1334:will know in the next day or so,cant wait to see it work
[00:58:54] <jlmjvm> skyfox:yes,they will run a servo that has step and dir inputs
[00:59:45] <skyfox00> me and my brother were talking about making something like that untill I found the pluto board....
[01:00:22] <skyfox00> A Pic chip would have a hard time keeping up with encoders though.
[01:11:43] <skinnypuppy> jlmjvm, sounds great
[01:17:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> another long hard day - learning to program puma.kins - teaching the robots... 13 hrs today
[01:17:39] <skyfox00> talk about overtime.
[01:18:23] <skyfox00> are there any job openings for people who know next to nothing?
[01:21:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> well they have been hiring people with no exp
[01:21:54] <Skullworks-PGAB> never run a machine before
[01:22:13] <skyfox00> what education level?
[01:22:55] <Skullworks-PGAB> and give them a weeks training and cut them loose on a Okuma, Mazak or Hwacheon CNC lathe cell
[01:23:22] <Skullworks-PGAB> high school I'm guessing
[01:23:35] <skyfox00> well, that rules me out I guess...
[01:25:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> Skyfox: not finished HS yet?
[01:26:39] <skyfox00> I have no formal academic education...
[01:28:12] <skyfox00> so, no, I have not finished HS, nor have I started it, not to mention KG.
[01:28:44] <tomp2> then talk directly with local machine shops and show them your talents and enthusiasm. larger companies will depend more on education, smaller might listen ( < 10 man shops ) and get a GED while working
[01:29:14] <cradek> I think places that filter solely on education are good places not to work
[01:29:48] <cradek> skyfox00: are you in the US?
[01:29:54] <skyfox00> I dont have good people skills, thats the main reason I dont have a job.
[01:30:16] <skyfox00> yeah, never been out of the state.
[01:30:24] <cradek> your people skills seem fine from here
[01:30:54] <tomp2> name some reasons why you should be hired
[01:31:33] <skyfox00> um, I guess I'm a perfectionest(to a degree)
[01:32:05] <skyfox00> I like to do things one the right way, and not have to go back and reado them...
[01:32:25] <skyfox00> once, rather
[01:32:40] <tomp2> can you show something you've done to perfection? something that exemplifies your work methods? ( convince the boss now )
[01:32:43] <skinnypuppy> You can sell that to people hiring, take some examples of your work or pictures
[01:33:16] <skyfox00> I dont have anything to show and tell at the moment...
[01:33:22] <cradek> I took the introductory lathe and mill classes at the community college - it was surprisingly affordable and it lets you get your hands on machines and make a few things
[01:33:40] <cradek> don't know if that's an option for you or not, but it's a great start if you have something nearby
[01:34:02] <skyfox00> I live out in the country with no transportation...
[01:34:07] <cradek> ouch
[01:34:13] <cradek> hmmm
[01:34:21] <tomp2> then rely on your enthusiasm, you'll have to sweep chips till they let you crank handles, and someday run nc
[01:34:27] <skinnypuppy> Got some machines skyfox?
[01:34:30] <tomp2> any shops near enuf to work at?
[01:35:14] <skyfox00> my brother has 2 sherline mills, he said I could have one if i get it working under cnc. so thats why i'm here realy...
[01:35:18] <cradek> sometimes you can get someone to show you the ropes, solely because of your enthusiasm; this works best if you're young
[01:35:46] <cradek> cool
[01:35:59] <cradek> well do that, and it'll be a great project to show a prospective employer
[01:36:05] <skinnypuppy> Thats a place to start, look for small aluminum performance items on ebay stuff for r/c cars also. Lots of things you can make and sell
[01:36:11] <cradek> you can learn a lot about machining on a small machine
[01:36:32] <skyfox00> I did have a paper route for 6 months and the only complaints I ever got were when the wind blew the rain into a porch and got the paper wet, and when someone stole there paper...
[01:36:37] <skinnypuppy> And a broken tool bit doesn't cost an arm and leg either
[01:37:03] <cradek> can your brother show you how to cut some stuff?
[01:37:16] <tomp2> can your brother help you learn aboutmachining, if you can learn how to wire up a cnc?
[01:37:20] <tomp2> yes
[01:38:09] <skyfox00> um, he is more into electronics(he is an elctronics eng) I convinced him to get ino machining...
[01:38:52] <tomp2> he has a degree?
[01:39:15] <Skullworks-PGAB> I had an uncle take me to the WESTEC machine tool show at the Los Angeles Convention center when I was 13, He currupted me for life.
[01:39:32] <skyfox00> he graduated from an advanced computer class from the local skilles center.
[01:40:03] <tomp2> how old are you? ( dont answer if you dont elike, but i cant tell if you're old enuf to work )
[01:41:13] <skyfox00> lol, I would have to do some math(I dont remember excatly) but 20+
[01:41:38] <cradek> ha, I do that too, my birth year never changes so I only have to remember that one number
[01:41:42] <tomp2> your bro went to grade school and hi school and a special trades school it seems
[01:41:53] <tomp2> and/or
[01:42:07] <skyfox00> my bro ONLY did the advanced computer class.
[01:42:43] <tomp2> maybe you an apply to the same school, learn electronics, become a cnc repairman
[01:43:10] <skyfox00> he is mostly self tought... he has a few friends that tought him advanced math/algabra/etc
[01:43:39] <skyfox00> last I knew there is an age limit on the skills center(its free) and I am past that age limit...
[01:43:47] <skinnypuppy> I wish I had done PLC's after electronics... I kept on thinking that every time I looked at the heidenhein or fanuc
[01:44:03] <skyfox00> PLC?
[01:44:19] <skinnypuppy> Programable logic controllers
[01:45:28] <skyfox00> I was thinking about learning fgpa's (xilinx spartan-3e) for servo controll, but when I downloaded the xilinx WebPack and read the documentation, it all went a little over my head...
[01:47:12] <skinnypuppy> Couldn't tell ya anything about it...
[01:48:49] <skyfox00> but, I have a pluto board, and if I can get it working, I should be able to hook it up to a board my brother made(power amp) and it should all work.
[01:49:08] <Ziegler> Can an acme thread be cut with a V point tool?
[01:49:31] <skinnypuppy> Skyfox, have you heard of comptia certification?
http://certification.comptia.org/ the A+ and Net+ are an inexpensive route into the IT world
[01:49:32] <cradek> no
[01:50:21] <cradek> acme threads are not pointy, they are squarish
[01:50:44] <skinnypuppy> 14.5 degree angle if I remember correctly not 60
[01:51:14] <cradek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acme_thread_form
[01:52:34] <skyfox00> skinnypuppy: I'm not so much into IT but building things...
[01:53:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> plbkac
[01:55:13] <skinnypuppy> skyfox, here's a link with 5 videos on hobbing gears on a sherline
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sherline+gear+&search=Search
[01:57:04] <skyfox00> oh yeah, I stuck an 1800 line encoder(from an old inkjet printer roller) on the spindle of the sherline; Is that to high res?
[01:57:24] <cradek> depends what you want to count it with
[01:57:41] <skyfox00> oh, pluto...
[01:57:44] <cradek> if you want to count with software your top speed will be limited
[01:57:48] <cradek> oh, for pluto it's fine
[01:58:00] <cradek> but for threading you need an index
[01:58:33] <skyfox00> I have yet to come up with a fourth axis design yet.
[01:58:56] <skyfox00> has anyone every done milled inside threads?
[01:59:12] <cradek> milled or single point lathe cut?
[01:59:37] <skyfox00> milled with a little thread prove side mill...
[01:59:52] <skyfox00> profile
[02:00:10] <cradek> no I haven't milled threads that way, but it's possible
[02:00:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> skyfox - I will be porting a Fanuc Macro B sub program which will threadmill a female NPT thread
[02:00:24] <cradek> the stock sherline might have trouble with that because of backlash though
[02:01:04] <cradek> but you just cut a helix with a specially shaped cutter - very easy to program in gcode
[02:01:20] <skyfox00> um, these mills are actualy the bigger models I think.(no markings, but has the headstock spacer, etc)
[02:01:50] <cradek> they are both currently fully manual?
[02:02:58] <skyfox00> no, they were used in a school for cnc work, but the steppers were removed from the mounts, so we had to make mounts that would bolt onto the nema-23 blocks on the mill and then take some 48V pittman dc encoder motors...
[02:03:37] <skyfox00> the x and y leadscrews have lash adjustments....
[02:04:23] <skyfox00> and I plan to preload Z with a counter weight to reduce lash...
[02:08:10] <cradek> the spindle has plenty of weight already, Z is no problem
[02:09:30] <skyfox00> I was thinking of makeing the spindle pre-loaded with upward presure, so when the bit touches the metal, it cant deflect away from the workpiece.
[02:10:25] <cradek> oh ok, I see what you mean, that might be a good idea
[02:11:40] <skyfox00> My brother does have an old worn out manual mill/lathe that he uses for make stuff(how we made the motor mounts for the sherline)
[02:12:49] <skinnypuppy> Any suggestions for successful tapping with a #2-56 tap? Haven't used any this small before
[02:13:07] <cradek> use oil and be gentle
[02:13:18] <skyfox00> make sure it starts stright.
[02:13:19] <cradek> back out and clean all the chips off about every half turn
[02:14:01] <eric_u> drill the correct hole
[02:14:13] <cradek> all good advice :-)
[02:14:40] <skinnypuppy> smaller needs much more removing and cleaning then yes... I can handle the hole and straight part
[02:15:22] <skinnypuppy> I saw how small it was and immediately said to myself shouldda ordered more than one
[02:15:41] <cradek> oh, only one? ouch.
[02:16:28] <skinnypuppy> :o) I probably wouldn't have asked until I'd broken a few.... but in this case
[02:16:43] <cradek> I've got a bunch, stop by for an extra or two
[02:17:25] <skinnypuppy> ;o)
[02:18:08] <cradek> are they spiral point or regular hand taps?
[02:18:15] <cradek> (and what material?)
[02:18:34] <skinnypuppy> My luck regular, material 6061
[02:18:55] <tomp2> deep?
[02:19:05] <skinnypuppy> wishing it were spiral, but 3/8 deep
[02:19:09] <tomp2> thru / bottomed?
[02:19:14] <skinnypuppy> bottom
[02:19:16] <cradek> not blind I hope
[02:19:37] <cradek> hmm
[02:19:51] <cradek> that tap looks awfully small to you right now I bet. :-)
[02:19:57] <skinnypuppy> thinking of making a thread former tap out of some 1/8 drill rod stock
[02:20:07] <tomp2> how many?
[02:20:08] <cradek> be sure to use a very small/light handle
[02:20:29] <jlmjvm> ive done some 2-56 before
[02:20:32] <tomp2> short handle, no need to gorilla it
[02:20:38] <eric_u> break into a machine shop and use a tapping stand
[02:20:46] <skinnypuppy> tomp...uuhhhmmmm too many 80
[02:20:55] <Jymmm> drill press, turn by hand
[02:21:02] <cradek> 80 #2 holes with one tap??
[02:21:05] <jlmjvm> get a thread form tap
[02:21:05] <tomp2> wait for reinforcemnets, get more & practice first
[02:21:25] <skinnypuppy> Yeah, there isn't really a priority on this
[02:21:26] <tomp2> get practice to getthe feel
[02:21:27] <skyfox00> get set up for cnc rigid tapping...
[02:21:36] <cradek> yeah sorry, you're not very likely to succeed I don't think
[02:21:49] <Ziegler> cradek: I realize acme threads have a flat... I just wondered if anyone has done them with a "pointy" tool :P
[02:22:09] <skinnypuppy> Yeah... I can do # 6 machine screws but this is just small
[02:22:21] <cradek> Ziegler: I don't see how you could, it would be 29 degrees
[02:22:29] <skyfox00> if the tool was VERY pointy, and you could sweep the angle of the tool, it might be posible....
[02:22:29] <tomp2> no reason to make #2 3/8 deep !
[02:22:47] <tomp2> 1.5 dia and rest is clearance
[02:23:06] <skinnypuppy> Prob not tomp, I should look at the screw length -material it clamps
[02:23:34] <jlmjvm> tomp is correct,1.5 dia= max thread strength
[02:23:42] <tomp2> it passes thru but neednt thread
[02:23:57] <tomp2> ask designer
[02:24:47] <tomp2> then look for print tolerance, something like +/-.010" and you dont have to put the threads in at all ;)
[02:26:39] <skinnypuppy> Alright with the supplied screws looks like .175 of the screw will be left after material thickness.
[02:27:27] <skinnypuppy> Think I should just file the end of a screw to give it a cutting edge and screw it on in?
[02:27:34] <jmkasunich_> a #2 is 0.086" dia IIRC
[02:27:47] <jmkasunich_> so you have about 2x diameter engaged
[02:28:07] <jmkasunich_> consider going one size larger on the tap drill
[02:28:16] <jmkasunich_> if you can, drill all the way thru, and use a gun tap
[02:28:33] <jlmjvm> form tap would be better on that dia
[02:28:43] <jmkasunich_> true
[02:28:52] <skinnypuppy> it's more than an inch through a little deep on the drilling could hold the chips
[02:28:55] <skyfox00> gun tap?
[02:29:02] <skinnypuppy> spiral tap
[02:29:04] <jmkasunich_> I have no first-hand experience with form taps
[02:29:07] <jmkasunich_> spiral POINT tap
[02:29:18] <jmkasunich_> spiral flute tap is a differnent beast
[02:29:20] <jlmjvm> they work fantastic on alum
[02:29:29] <jlmjvm> no chips
[02:29:34] <jlmjvm> no break
[02:29:43] <jmkasunich_> lube is critical for form taps isn't it?
[02:30:10] <jlmjvm> not nearly as much as u cut tap
[02:30:15] <Jymmm> jmkasunich_: I used tapping fluid on mine, threads came out nicely
[02:30:44] <Jymmm> Mmmmm cinamon scented
[02:31:03] <jlmjvm> a shot of wd40 on 1 will work good,or coolant,or alcohol
[02:31:21] <skinnypuppy> WD40 works awesome on AL
[02:31:26] <Jymmm> alcohol?
[02:31:32] <jlmjvm> yep
[02:31:45] <Jymmm> This is what I've been using
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/items/2C649?BaseItem=4PD51
[02:31:55] <skyfox00> isapropyl?
[02:32:05] <jlmjvm> i didnt believe it till i saw it
[02:32:09] <cradek> I like "alumicut" which is probably kerosene and oil
[02:32:13] <Jymmm> The only alcohol I have is 191 proof denatured
[02:32:13] <tomp2> use the largest allowable drill ( accord to print ) . tapmagic is great stuff and worth it. clean all chips outta the hole, csink each hole, and look into each. if you have a good repeatable setup, drill all first, else dril check tap dril check tap ....
[02:32:38] <jlmjvm> i prefer wd or coolant
[02:32:39] <skinnypuppy> Tapmagic is great and smelly
[02:32:50] <tomp2> how do you plan to tap? dead center in chuck and thandle?
[02:32:50] <Jymmm> and non toxic too
[02:33:07] <tomp2> Thandle
[02:33:23] <Jymmm> chuck it in a drill press and turn by hand
[02:33:29] <SWPadnos> there's a new Tap Magic Aluminum formula. It's not all that toxic, and smells nice, like cinnamon
[02:33:31] <cradek> no way, you can't feel it
[02:33:36] <cradek> you need a very light handle
[02:33:41] <Jymmm> cradek: sure you can, really.
[02:33:51] <Jymmm> and keep it at a right angle too
[02:33:53] <tomp2> yes, the feel is really important, and easy moving z to follow
[02:33:55] <cradek> no no no you'll just break it
[02:34:13] <Jymmm> I take off the belt when I do it
[02:34:19] <skinnypuppy> Spring center in chuck, aligning a pinvice with a divit in the rear t align to the center above it
[02:34:19] <jlmjvm> SWPadnos:im looking at the wiring diagram for the usc/gecko interface
[02:34:24] <SWPadnos> Jymmm - drill press works great for #8, #6, maybe #4, but #2-56 - uhhh maybe not
[02:34:29] <skinnypuppy> pinvice holding tap
[02:34:32] <cradek> maybe with a very small drill press?
[02:34:35] <jmkasunich_> http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/113/gfx/small/2550ap1s.gif
[02:34:38] <skinnypuppy> was what I had envisioned
[02:34:54] <cradek> jmkasunich_: I have one of those - works great
[02:34:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: 4-40 is the smallest I've done.
[02:34:57] <tomp2> tapping block, rememeber how to make one? keep it straight:)
[02:34:59] <jmkasunich_> yep
[02:35:09] <cradek> you can use a drill press, just don't tighten the chuck on it
[02:35:14] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, yep - not the easiest thing to follow, and I think there were some things missing when we went over it for the DeskCNC setup :)
[02:35:57] <jmkasunich_> for a 3/8 deep #2-56, if you have a spiral point tap and a deep enough (or through) hole, you can just spin it down and spin it back out again
[02:36:09] <jmkasunich_> (using the piloted handle)
[02:36:09] <jlmjvm> and it shows the encoder wires stopping,are they supposed to go to the usc,then jumper over to the gecko interface?
[02:36:38] <SWPadnos> jlmjvm, dunno. it was 2-3 years ago that I actually helped set one up. mine is in a storage bin
[02:36:39] <Jymmm> "Ya know ya want to just toss the 2/56 in a cordless drill and GO FOR IT!!!"
[02:36:46] <cradek> darn I wish I could loan you one of these 2-56 gun taps - I have several
[02:36:54] <Jymmm> gun taps?
[02:36:56] <SWPadnos> die grinder - might as well snap the tap that much faster
[02:36:56] <jlmjvm> it just shows the wires fron the usc to the gecko interface
[02:37:06] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: linemans pliers
[02:37:10] <tomp2> "A T-handle tap wrench should be used with all small taps. It allows more sensitive "feel" when tapping."
http://ase.tufts.edu/mechanical/shop/classes/me1/threading.htm
[02:37:42] <tomp2> maybe you'll need some edm after 80 holes ;)
[02:38:09] <skinnypuppy> Speaking of strange coolants some of the really old machinist books i have lists warm milk as the perfect coolant for copper
[02:38:17] <skyfox00> lol
[02:38:19] <cradek> haha
[02:38:47] <SWPadnos> "but make sure that the shop cat is nowhere nearby" ...
[02:38:57] <Jymmm> skinnypuppy Let me guess, and the previosu chapter of these books also tell you had to lube the utters before milking too
[02:39:02] <jmkasunich_> and clean off the machine very well when done
[02:39:14] <skinnypuppy> Shop cat loves to sleep when there is chips fying in the garrage
[02:39:27] <skinnypuppy> jymmm hilarious
[02:40:39] <cradek> * cradek tries to decide whether Jymmm meant cutters or udders
[02:40:39] <skinnypuppy> also mentions using rawhide and carbon coke made from nut shells in to caseharden..
[02:41:14] <skyfox00> whats so strange about that?
[02:42:09] <skinnypuppy> nothing wrong worked for them
[02:44:02] <skyfox00> anyone ever done color case hardening?
[02:44:34] <SWPadnos> do you mean anodizing?
[02:44:41] <tomp2> mcmaster carr doesnt even have 2-64 nitrited... i suggest dont use bottoming tap, use 'plug' form ( some lead ) and drill a bit deeper than 3/8. a bottoming tap can go wrong easier than one with lead
[02:44:50] <SWPadnos> (the answer is no in either case, just wondering)
[02:44:50] <skyfox00> no, like how they did the the case hardening on the old colts
[02:44:57] <SWPadnos> ah, bluing
[02:45:28] <jmkasunich_> SWPadnos: not quite like blueing
[02:45:41] <jmkasunich_> color case hardening has a mottled appearance with many colors, not just blue
[02:45:48] <SWPadnos> shows what I know about gunsmithing :)
[02:45:52] <skyfox00> not blueing, blueing is a chemichal prossecc, case hardening involves carbon and heat, etc
[02:45:53] <tomp2> pretty
[02:46:07] <jmkasunich_> it's used on other stuff besides guns
[02:46:08] <cradek> bluing is not a chemical process unless you're a gunsmith
[02:46:15] <SWPadnos> heh
[02:46:24] <SWPadnos> it can also be "looking for high spots" :)
[02:46:40] <cradek> true, that too
[02:46:43] <SWPadnos> hmmm. maybe I should have ordered some of that when I placed that McMaster order
[02:46:43] <tomp2> martensite on surface, can be colorful (crystals )
[02:46:51] <skinnypuppy> I've got a blacksmith friend that i end up doing machine repairs for
[02:46:52] <cradek> watchmakers blue the right way, with heat
[02:47:01] <jmkasunich_> ;-)
[02:47:03] <Ziegler> ?
[02:47:05] <skinnypuppy> so do those bladesmiths
[02:47:07] <Ziegler> gin are case hardend
[02:47:12] <Ziegler> guns*
[02:47:20] <jmkasunich_> gunsmiths do too - if you are paying for that class of workmanship
[02:47:28] <cradek> ah ok
[02:47:34] <cradek> I know nothing about gunsmithing either
[02:47:41] <tomp2> german blue instead of dye-kem ( copper sulfate for layout )
[02:47:44] <Ziegler> "color case hardened"
[02:47:45] <jmkasunich_> I know next to nothing about it
[02:48:03] <jmkasunich_> I have a surface gage of my dad's that is color case hardened (I think)
[02:48:04] <skinnypuppy> Certainly seen a few nicely hand crafted and carved not etched guns very very nice work
[02:48:06] <jmkasunich_> * jmkasunich_ digs it out
[02:48:39] <SWPadnos> man. my dad has stuff like old math books, not cool things like machinists tools
[02:48:59] <skinnypuppy> Seeing those guys hot carve scuplture from glowing billet with Hseries tool steel chissels is neat too
[02:49:07] <jmkasunich_> my dad was a machinist for 40+ years
[02:49:16] <Ziegler> color case hardening is different from hot bluing tho
[02:49:35] <skinnypuppy> My grandad was a cnc machinist, I didn't know until I was in school
[02:49:39] <SWPadnos> I have a friend whose father was also a machinist - he grew up on Bridgeports and other machines
[02:49:41] <skinnypuppy> for machinist
[02:49:42] <skyfox00> classic hot blueing is done in a tank of hot water based chemichals...
[02:49:53] <Ziegler> bluing slats
[02:49:57] <skyfox00> yep
[02:49:57] <Ziegler> salts
[02:49:58] <SWPadnos> oops - it was his grandfather
[02:50:21] <jmkasunich_> skinnypuppy your grandad was a CNC machinist?
[02:50:27] <jmkasunich_> you must be young
[02:50:36] <skyfox00> let me dig up the brownels catalog, they have color case hardening stuff
[02:50:38] <SWPadnos> or the old dog learned some new tricks ;)
[02:50:40] <skinnypuppy> tape machines
[02:50:39] <tomp2> brownells for the salts
[02:51:04] <tomp2> www.brownells.com
[02:51:11] <Ziegler> brownells is good but expensive
[02:51:29] <skinnypuppy> I was young when he passed all I knew was he worked at the an aircraft manufacture plant
[02:51:31] <Ziegler> they really have nice equipment though
[02:51:33] <tomp2> and for teeny screws and other weird gun tools, yep, they got it tho
[02:51:58] <skinnypuppy> brownells it a super catalog
[02:52:06] <tomp2> there's a job for a tiny lathe... make those awfull expensive gun screws
[02:52:13] <skyfox00> tell me about it, I cant find what I'm looking for
[02:52:14] <Jymmm> skinnypuppyI never have seen the hot carving... love it though.
[02:53:01] <Jymmm> I wonder if I should fix the winchester or leave it as is.
[02:53:17] <Ziegler> What model is it?
[02:53:22] <Jymmm> it was a "working" rifle...
[02:53:29] <Jymmm> 1882 iirc
[02:53:39] <Ziegler> what shape is it in?
[02:54:02] <tomp2> long skinny ;)
[02:54:07] <Ziegler> LOL
[02:54:08] <Ziegler> haha
[02:54:27] <Jymmm> Heh, the stock (where it had cracked at one point) is bound together with copper wire that was beaten flat and soldered
[02:54:53] <Ziegler> Indian gun?
[02:55:03] <skinnypuppy> Guys would using a pci graphics card instead of the agp sis chip onboard reduce latency times any?
[02:55:04] <Ziegler> or something you did
[02:55:23] <cradek> skinnypuppy: very possible
[02:55:25] <SWPadnos> skinnypuppy, it's possible
[02:55:38] <SWPadnos> it really depends on whether the onboard chip shares memory with the CPU
[02:55:58] <SWPadnos> if it's got a separate memory buffer (rare, but possible), then it probably won't help
[02:55:58] <skinnypuppy> I've got lots of pci vid cards
[02:56:07] <cradek> use a matrox if you have it
[02:57:25] <Jymmm> Dumb question, but whats the differnce between a boolean AND and a logical AND operation?
[02:57:40] <cradek> what's the context? you mean in C?
[02:57:48] <Jymmm> cradek: sure
[02:57:52] <skinnypuppy> back from the attic, three pci s3virge chips on the cards
[02:58:03] <jmkasunich_> http://jmkasunich.com/pics/color-case-hardening.jpg
[02:58:08] <skinnypuppy> or 3 cards all s3
[02:58:19] <Jymmm> cradek: any language really - I'm just confusing them too much
[02:58:19] <skyfox00> ok, wood and bone charcole fore color case hardening...
[02:58:22] <SWPadnos> err - boolean logic is "logical" operations
[02:58:24] <cradek> C has & and &&, & is bitwise, && is logical (like one bit)
[02:58:42] <tomp2> lufkin, pretty
[02:59:08] <cradek> 010 & 001 = 000; 010 && 001 = "true" (because both are nonzero)
[02:59:18] <skinnypuppy> Are you using bubble quench for color caseing jmk?
[02:59:25] <skyfox00> sure is easy to get lost drooling over the brownells cataloge
[02:59:35] <jmkasunich_> skinnypuppy that was hardened by Lufkin many years ago
[02:59:38] <Jymmm> cradek: Right, but whats the difference between boolean and logical
[02:59:48] <jmkasunich_> I've never tried color (or regular) case hardening
[03:00:23] <Jymmm> cradek: your example I would suspect would be boolean
[03:00:24] <tomp2> none i think, you mean binary vs logical?
[03:01:31] <tomp2> aka bitwise vs logical?
[03:01:32] <SWPadnos> Jymmm, I think you're saying "boolean" to mean "bitwise"
[03:02:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> please tell me the #2-56 tap was NOT from Brownels...
[03:02:05] <SWPadnos> in all cases, boolean logic works only on binary data (whether you call it 0/1, true/false, yes/no - whatever)
[03:02:10] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 would love to go to the Colorado School of Trades
[03:02:38] <SWPadnos> in C, there are options for whether you apply that operation to the operand as a whole or for each bit
[03:02:40] <Skullworks-PGAB> Trinadad Gunsmithing College?
[03:03:15] <skyfox00> hmmm, never heard of it, sounds interesting though...
[03:03:40] <fenn> wow they are planning to use stepper motors to power the climbers on the proposed space elevator
[03:03:50] <SWPadnos> so "logical" (probably) means operand-as-a-whole. ie, a&&b will be 0 (false) if both a and b are 0, and will be 1 (true) if either a or b is not zero
[03:03:51] <Skullworks-PGAB> just up the road from New Mexico about 30 miles
[03:04:19] <Jymmm> ok, logical and bitwise...my bad
[03:04:21] <SWPadnos> err - I think I wrote that wrong ;)
[03:04:32] <skyfox00> Skullworks-PGAB:
http://www.schooloftrades.com/
[03:04:57] <SWPadnos> a&&b will be false if either a or b is 0, and will be true if both a and b are not zero
[03:05:13] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: in which bitwise or logical?
[03:05:16] <SWPadnos> but that's just how C does it. 0 = false and nonzero=true
[03:05:25] <SWPadnos> this is logical (or operand-at-a-time)
[03:05:28] <Skullworks-PGAB> Ug - Lakewood
[03:05:33] <Jymmm> I understand the logic tables, just not the difference between bitwise and logical
[03:05:33] <SWPadnos> bitwise does it per bit
[03:05:42] <Skullworks-PGAB> too close to Denver
[03:05:49] <SWPadnos> 17 in binary is 0001 0001
[03:06:03] <skyfox00> Skullworks-PGAB: whats with Denver?
[03:06:04] <SWPadnos> 43 in binary is 0010 1011
[03:06:23] <SWPadnos> 17 & 43 (bitwise) is 0000 0001
[03:06:32] <Skullworks-PGAB> They are not friendly to any "black" firearms
[03:06:50] <tomp2> fred is 7 ethel is 6 , so logical and sez fred and ethel is true fred is 010 ,ethel is 011 binary and sez fred and ethel is 010
[03:06:53] <SWPadnos> only when a certain bit position in both operands is 1 will the result have the corresponding bit set to 1
[03:06:54] <skyfox00> oh, I didn't know that, turkeys...
[03:07:23] <Skullworks-PGAB> now here in Colorado Springs... Anything goes
[03:07:49] <tomp2> s/binary/bitwise
[03:08:07] <skyfox00> Skullworks-PGAB: your in Colorado Springs?
[03:08:19] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: as example this
http://php.he.net/manual/en/language.operators.bitwise.php versus
http://php.he.net/manual/en/language.operators.logical.php I'm not understanding the difference between the two. I know 1 and 1 = 1, 0 and 1 = 0, etc
[03:08:41] <SWPadnos> I don't know how to make it clearer
[03:08:48] <Skullworks-PGAB> If you could find a 16" bore navel cannon - no problem - assuming you have permission to fire accross several properties...
[03:08:52] <SWPadnos> bitwise does the operation for each bit in the operands
[03:08:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> yes I live in C/S
[03:09:11] <Skullworks-PGAB> in the free zone
[03:09:21] <jmkasunich_> ;-)
[03:09:36] <tomp2> coors
[03:09:40] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Ok, take an ip subnet mask, which would that be?
[03:09:47] <SWPadnos> bitwise
[03:09:52] <skyfox00> Skullworks-PGAB: cool, can I stay in your dog house so I can attend the CST?
[03:09:58] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ok, and a logical would be?
[03:10:02] <Jymmm> example I mean
[03:10:11] <SWPadnos> in C, the result of a logical operation is always 0 or 1
[03:10:27] <jmkasunich_> Jymm: logical is usually used for conditionals
[03:10:34] <Skullworks-PGAB> Grew up in Los Angeles - but bailed out and headed to the free zones
[03:10:35] <SWPadnos> in other languages, it may be a boolean, like true or false
[03:10:50] <jmkasunich_> if (( foo == 4 ) && ( the_sky == blue )) { do somethiing }
[03:10:56] <Jymmm> so logical is just T/F ???
[03:11:00] <SWPadnos> yes
[03:11:00] <jmkasunich_> yes
[03:11:05] <Jymmm> 100 XOR 200 ?
[03:11:18] <Jymmm> make than bin, sorry
[03:11:23] <Jymmm> 0100
[03:11:24] <SWPadnos> depends on whether that's a bitswise xor or logical xor ;)
[03:11:25] <Jymmm> whateve
[03:11:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: make it logical
[03:11:39] <SWPadnos> 100 xor 200 (assuming hex) is actually 300 ;)
[03:11:50] <jmkasunich_> (if bitwise)
[03:11:56] <SWPadnos> right
[03:12:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> oooh since were talking logic - Question about variables in EMC
[03:12:06] <jmkasunich_> I'm not sure C has a logical xor
[03:12:07] <SWPadnos> no, no EMC talk here
[03:12:13] <SWPadnos> I was just thinking that
[03:12:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> EMC][
[03:12:34] <Jymmm> is logical ever used in electroinc circuits?
[03:12:41] <tomp2> !?!?
[03:12:47] <skinnypuppy> ???
[03:12:48] <SWPadnos> it's usually dones a if ((a&&!b)||(!a&&b))
[03:12:56] <SWPadnos> done as ...
[03:13:10] <Skullworks-PGAB> is there a way to set a variable to null - undefined?
[03:13:12] <Jymmm> but that's bitwise
[03:13:17] <Jymmm> correct?
[03:13:17] <skinnypuppy> Jymmm have you looked at ttl
[03:13:26] <SWPadnos> no it's not - in C, when you double the operator, it's logical
[03:13:29] <Skullworks-PGAB> not Zero - since zero is a real number
[03:13:35] <tomp2> electronic logic was created when some guy invented the first and gate (past electromagnetic)
[03:13:41] <SWPadnos> so && and || are logical and and or, respectively
[03:13:50] <SWPadnos> Skullworks-PGAB, in HAL?
[03:14:03] <SWPadnos> or in EMC, lke variable 5397?
[03:14:06] <Skullworks-PGAB> no - in functional G-code
[03:14:07] <SWPadnos> (the interp)
[03:14:14] <Jymmm> ok, a good old fashion AND gate from rat shack.... bitwise?
[03:14:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> right like #101=12
[03:14:22] <tomp2> how do you type those updside down U's needed to explain booleans?
[03:14:23] <SWPadnos> hardware always works on bits
[03:14:30] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:14:38] <SWPadnos> Skullworks-PGAB, I don't think so
[03:14:45] <SWPadnos> there's no equivalent of #undefine
[03:14:54] <SWPadnos> (or #undef)
[03:15:04] <skyfox00> well, thanks everyone for all the help!
[03:15:05] <jmkasunich_> Jymmm yes, and gates are bitwise
[03:15:08] <tomp2> #undef = forgetaboutit
[03:15:22] <SWPadnos> #undef == forgetaboutit ;)
[03:15:24] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 heads for the door...
[03:15:28] <SWPadnos> see ya
[03:15:31] <Skullworks-PGAB> Fanuc used the simple cheat to say that #0 would always indicate null or undefined
[03:15:39] <Jymmm> -1
[03:16:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> so to clear a variable just #101=#0
[03:16:08] <tomp2> Heidenhain has a 'No Enter' button for when you dont want to answer ( really!)
[03:16:15] <SWPadnos> I'm pretty sure EMC has no such facility
[03:16:29] <SWPadnos> but there's also no way to test for whether #101 is undefined, I think
[03:16:46] <SWPadnos> so you might as well choose -1000000 and check for that
[03:17:04] <tomp2> preload every var and make sure it's not the secret number ( hope you never need the secret number tho )
[03:17:08] <Skullworks-PGAB> it is used in macros as a check to be sure all variable are defined - or clear them
[03:17:33] <SWPadnos> yeah. it's a good idea, but I don't think either half is implemented
[03:17:59] <SWPadnos> but you can set #0=123456789, and check for #n == #0
[03:18:21] <SWPadnos> it's very unlikely that someone would use a number so large in an actual program
[03:18:59] <SWPadnos> I think it could be a good feature, I'm just suggesting workarounds
[03:19:17] <Skullworks-PGAB> yeah and that what I'm collecting
[03:19:33] <SWPadnos> (for instance, I can imagine cases where a single function can take several different sets of parameters, and calculate the missing one(s), if it knows which they are)
[03:19:46] <Skullworks-PGAB> methods to port existing Macro B code to EMC
[03:20:33] <tomp2> so if all # are strings, you can use "NAN" or "Fred"
[03:20:52] <Jymmm> Mmmmm Garlic Nan
[03:21:03] <tomp2> and use isanum to see if its a valid numeric
[03:21:18] <SWPadnos> I don't think the values are strings
[03:21:18] <tomp2> Nam ( not a monkey )
[03:21:18] <Skullworks-PGAB> Not sure how EMC stores # values
[03:21:29] <SWPadnos> the names may be able to be (it's on the list, if it isn't done already)
[03:21:39] <Skullworks-PGAB> prolly a signed long word
[03:21:40] <SWPadnos> but I'm pretty sure the vars are doubles
[03:21:49] <SWPadnos> they're floating point, not ints
[03:21:56] <Skullworks-PGAB> right
[03:22:03] <Jymmm> my bad.... Garlic Naan
[03:22:16] <tomp2> understood, naan, roti...
[03:22:21] <SWPadnos> mmmm - maybe I'll have some Indian food for lunch tomorrow
[03:22:23] <Jymmm> no I guess it's speeld both ways
[03:22:34] <SWPadnos> can't forget pappadum
[03:22:39] <tomp2> but >if< they were strings...
[03:22:50] <Jymmm> I've been wanting indian food for weeks
[03:22:51] <SWPadnos> it's spelled in Farsi (or whatever) - everything else is a transliteration
[03:23:33] <eric_u> I love mango pickle
[03:23:48] <Jymmm> say what?
[03:23:55] <Jymmm> pickled mango?
[03:23:59] <eric_u> talking about indian food
[03:24:06] <Jymmm> never heard of it
[03:24:12] <Skullworks-PGAB> mango and red chili peper salid - sweet and spicy
[03:24:16] <Jymmm> tell us moe Don Pardo
[03:24:16] <SWPadnos> mango lassi
[03:24:20] <eric_u> they "pickle" lots of things
[03:24:30] <Jymmm> Not like Kim Chee ?
[03:24:41] <tomp2> not buried
[03:24:43] <eric_u> in a way, but not at all similar taste
[03:24:48] <Jymmm> ah, ok
[03:25:15] <eric_u> Indian pickles supposedly last nearly forever, 100 years according to my boss
[03:25:26] <SWPadnos> mmmm. kimchee
[03:25:28] <Jymmm> yeow!
[03:25:33] <SWPadnos> damn. no korean restaurants around here
[03:25:43] <tomp2> bulgogi
[03:25:43] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: No Korean BBQ for you!
[03:25:46] <SWPadnos> damn you jymmm!
[03:25:56] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Come on down, I know a few =)
[03:26:03] <SWPadnos> I'm gonna have to go out there and kick your ass for that (after eating at the Palace BBQ :) )
[03:26:24] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: I'm game for Palace BBQ, never tried it yet
[03:26:30] <SWPadnos> it's good. and all you can eat
[03:26:46] <SWPadnos> though I like the kimchee ay Ga-Ya better
[03:26:49] <SWPadnos> at
[03:26:59] <SWPadnos> too bad that's in Dusseldorf
[03:27:04] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: works for me... especially since I'm trying to avoid startches
[03:27:16] <SWPadnos> oh - load up the meat and kimchee then ;)
[03:27:21] <Jymmm> yep
[03:27:34] <SWPadnos> oh, they have some really excellent spick marinated pork
[03:27:43] <SWPadnos> spicy - Y dammin
[03:27:43] <Jymmm> spick ?
[03:27:45] <SWPadnos> dammit!
[03:27:46] <Jymmm> ah
[03:27:49] <tomp2> Korean BBQ in Colorado Springs?
[03:27:49] <SWPadnos> damnit!
[03:27:56] <SWPadnos> no, San Jose
[03:27:58] <SWPadnos> Ca
[03:28:00] <SWPadnos> CA
[03:28:04] <Jymmm> SJC
[03:28:08] <SWPadnos> or Ga-Ya in Dusseldorf Germany
[03:28:12] <tomp2> ok, CS is too small to have missed that
[03:28:22] <SWPadnos> or Korea House in Austin TX
[03:28:38] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: whats the address
[03:28:41] <SWPadnos> which one?
[03:28:44] <Jymmm> TX
[03:28:52] <Skullworks-PGAB> Korean Butterfly cutt beef!
[03:29:00] <Jymmm> does it matter? you know them both by heart SWPadnos
[03:29:06] <SWPadnos> err - it's at the Village Shopping Center, somewhere along Lamar, I think
[03:29:21] <SWPadnos> I don't remember - I don't think I've ever driven there (and that helps)
[03:29:29] <Jymmm> ah
[03:29:37] <SWPadnos> it's also been a couple of years since I've been down to Austin
[03:29:39] <Jymmm> it's all good =)
[03:29:46] <tomp2> heh, used to live in the San Jacinto arms ( old rotc barracks sold off to UT for student housing )
[03:30:04] <SWPadnos> actually, I could probably point it out on a map, but I don't know the street off the top of my head :)
[03:30:31] <Jymmm> it's just more fun to tease ya about it =)
[03:31:13] <tomp2> google maps aerial views are cool, go somewhere you've been and add balloons about what you can recognize
[03:31:17] <SWPadnos> heh
[03:31:44] <Jymmm> lol
[03:34:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> my friend was a crypie in the AF - stationed at Fort Mead - was shocked that he could zoom in on his parking space - Fort Mead is not on the blackout list.
[03:36:13] <eric_u> I found the place where my tent was when I was deployed to Qatar.
[03:36:32] <eric_u> they've made some changes, but I'm pretty sure some of our tire tracks are still there
[03:36:57] <Skullworks-PGAB> not sand I take it
[03:37:06] <eric_u> no, on concrete
[03:38:03] <Skullworks-PGAB> When I go to the GLamis dunes - every mornig it looks like virgin sand at dawn - all the prior days tracks are gone.
[03:39:27] <eric_u> we were on the southwest side of the Doha Airport, there is no sand anywhere
[03:39:35] <eric_u> or rather, it's all glued down somehow
[03:40:09] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: Teh Sandman cleans it every night
[03:40:21] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: DUH!
[03:40:24] <eric_u> like at the ski areas
[03:40:25] <Jymmm> ;)
[03:40:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> El nino
[03:41:07] <Jymmm> El Diablo
[03:41:21] <Skullworks-PGAB> * Skullworks-PGAB wouldn't know - lives in Colorado but allready has enough expensive life threatening hobbies - I don't ski.
[03:41:50] <Jymmm> Skullworks-PGAB: Blowfish eating contests don't count
[03:42:01] <eric_u> leave at night, the snow is all messed up, in the morning it's all smoothed out, it's a miracle I tellya
[03:42:27] <Jymmm> eric_u: The SnowMen clean it up every night... DUH!
[03:42:36] <Skullworks-PGAB> high pressure / high velocity snow making machines...
[03:43:02] <eric_u> it's not the snowman, it's his snowcat, DUH
[03:43:23] <Jymmm> heh
[03:43:26] <Skullworks-PGAB> and Vail and Aspen are litterboxes
[03:44:06] <eric_u> don't make me think about that
[03:45:10] <eric_u> specially the snowdog
[03:46:14] <Skullworks-PGAB> suppose to get our first snow before end of Sept this year :(
[03:48:22] <eric_u> If you learn to ski, that makes you happy about snow, otherwise it makes you :(
[03:49:13] <Skullworks-PGAB> I drive a Mustang GT - Snow means I have to start being careful.
[03:50:01] <Skullworks-PGAB> I will be getting passed by Subaru Station wagons...
[03:50:23] <jlmjvm> we hardly ever get any snow here
[03:52:47] <Skullworks-PGAB> well bed time for me 0330 is getting too close
[03:53:16] <eric_u> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725838 your own predator for $150
[03:53:52] <jmkasunich_> I wonder if google follows "refresh" meta-tags?
[03:55:08] <SWPadnos> refresh or redirect?
[03:55:12] <jmkasunich_> my old webpage was the #1 hit for "Van Norman Milling Machine", but I just moved it - it would suck if google can't figure out the new URL
[03:55:15] <jmkasunich_> refresh
[03:55:20] <SWPadnos> it probably does not follow refresh
[03:55:26] <jmkasunich_> my understanding is that redirect is something that has to be done at the server end
[03:55:30] <jmkasunich_> which I have no access to
[03:55:40] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[03:56:02] <SWPadnos> do you have a shell account there, or just web/ftp access?
[03:56:10] <jmkasunich_> just web
[03:56:25] <jmkasunich_> http://home.att.net/~JEKasunich/vannorman/VN_Home.htm
[03:58:45] <SWPadnos> heh:
http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/reback
[03:59:00] <SWPadnos> "Don't use "refresh" to redirect! :)
[03:59:00] <jmkasunich_> right
[03:59:08] <jmkasunich_> I've read that in several places
[03:59:16] <jmkasunich_> but HTTP redirects aren't an option for me
[03:59:18] <SWPadnos> but you do need access to some config to return a 301
[03:59:26] <SWPadnos> no FTP huh
[03:59:40] <SWPadnos> are you sure about that?
[03:59:42] <jmkasunich_> FTP still won't let me change the server config
[03:59:45] <SWPadnos> it may
[03:59:57] <jmkasunich_> how?
[04:00:05] <jmkasunich_> I don't even know what software is serving up the pages
[04:00:06] <SWPadnos> if they're running apache, you may be able to put an .htaccess file in that dir to redirect
[04:00:23] <SWPadnos> I'm not sure you can configure 301s with .htaccess though
[04:00:58] <jmkasunich_> hmm
[04:01:01] <jmkasunich_> maybe you can
[04:01:07] <SWPadnos> yep - it looks that way
[04:01:12] <jmkasunich_> I was assuming that I'd have to alter a top level apache config file
[04:01:28] <SWPadnos> that would be difficult on multi-hosting services
[04:01:41] <jmkasunich_> s/difficult/impossible/
[04:01:49] <SWPadnos> right ;)
[04:01:52] <tomp2> google 'street view' is cool, pano tech w/o qtvr (dang requires flash 9 or > )
[04:02:01] <SWPadnos> Options +FollowSymlinks
[04:02:02] <SWPadnos> RewriteEngine on
[04:02:03] <SWPadnos> rewritecond %{http_host} ^domain.com [nc]
[04:02:05] <SWPadnos> rewriterule ^(.*)$
http://www.domain.com/$1 [r=301,nc]
[04:02:41] <SWPadnos> that's actually a full domain redirect, which you probably don't want ;)
[04:03:12] <SWPadnos> http://www.javascriptkit.com/howto/htaccess7.shtml
[04:03:15] <jmkasunich_> Redirect permanent /vannorman
http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman
[04:03:25] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:03:46] <jmkasunich_> I have no idea if that will actually work, gonna give it a try
[04:04:12] <SWPadnos> there are possibly other options you need to enable, like the "RewriteEngine on" setting
[04:04:21] <SWPadnos> but I'm not sure which ones
[04:06:21] <jmkasunich_> bah
[04:06:25] <SWPadnos> it looks like they're using Netscapr Enterprise, so .htaccess may not do anything
[04:06:29] <SWPadnos> netscape
[04:06:38] <jmkasunich_> the http based file rename tool won't let me name a file with a leading .
[04:06:51] <SWPadnos> it's odd that you can't log in with ftp
[04:07:05] <jmkasunich_> I probably can
[04:07:06] <SWPadnos> usually that's how you'd transfer site contents
[04:11:39] <jmkasunich_> bah
[04:11:44] <jmkasunich_> I can connect with FTP
[04:11:51] <SWPadnos> now where have I heard that before?
[04:11:58] <jmkasunich_> but a rename attempt fails with "Forbidden filename"
[04:12:10] <SWPadnos> oh, of course
[04:12:12] <jmkasunich_> (I uploaded it as htaccess, then tried to rename with the leading .
[04:12:34] <SWPadnos> try a fully qualified name, like ~/.htaccess
[04:12:55] <SWPadnos> they may restrict the use of leading periods to prevent ../../../../some/other/user
[04:13:02] <SWPadnos> or that kind of thing
[04:13:48] <SWPadnos> not that it matters, because iI don't know that Netscape Enterprise Server uses .htaccess files anyway
[04:13:57] <jmkasunich_> it allows me to rename to /foo, but not /.foo
[04:14:07] <jmkasunich_> right, it's probably futile anyway
[04:14:22] <SWPadnos> you might try emailing support or checking their forums/wiki, if they have those
[04:14:35] <jmkasunich_> hah, you gotta be kidding
[04:14:50] <jmkasunich_> att is only a tiny notch better than AOL
[04:14:54] <SWPadnos> no, but you did just use the word futile, so I thought I'd suggest those things :)
[04:15:00] <jmkasunich_> huge company that assumes all users are morons
[04:15:11] <SWPadnos> they are. can't even do a redirect ;)
[04:15:18] <jmkasunich_> and the users who aren't morons are bad, because they might actually ask questions that are hard to answer
[04:15:19] <SWPadnos> sheesh
[04:16:16] <jmkasunich_> the only reason I'm doing the redirect is because I'm going to be changing things anyway
[04:16:42] <jmkasunich_> my current isp is "ATT Worldnet", and I pay $39.99 for 384 down / 128 up
[04:16:59] <jmkasunich_> "ATT Yahoo" offers 6000 down 768 up for $34.95
[04:17:08] <jmkasunich_> you'd think ATT = ATT, but nooooo
[04:17:21] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:18:13] <SWPadnos> take a look at whatever google offers. you may be able to email someone there and have them "fix it"
[04:18:23] <jmkasunich_> that's a good idea
[04:21:17] <jmkasunich_> "While we can't manually change your URL in our search results... blah blah blah"
[04:21:31] <jmkasunich_> they suggest 301 redirects, which I already know I can't do
[04:21:31] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:21:47] <SWPadnos> well, it can't hurt to ask at ATT-whatever
[04:21:49] <jmkasunich_> and they suggest contacting people who link to the old site and asking them to point at the new one
[04:22:00] <SWPadnos> the worst that can happen is exactly what you have now
[04:22:24] <jmkasunich_> I doubt it's worth the effort
[04:22:43] <jmkasunich_> this isn't like dreamhost, where hosting is what they do
[04:23:04] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:23:14] <jmkasunich_> they're an ISP, and "personal web pages" is just one of those "oh, by the way we have these neat extras"
[04:32:15] <jmkasunich_> crap, it's tomorrow already
[04:33:02] <SWPadnos> do you have their domain manager?
[04:33:11] <jmkasunich_> "their"?
[04:33:15] <SWPadnos> AT+T
[04:33:21] <SWPadnos> http://www.wurd.com/pwp_domain-forward.php
[04:33:52] <jmkasunich_> oh - that's the opposite of what I want to do
[04:33:58] <SWPadnos> heh
[04:34:02] <jmkasunich_> my domain currently points to my home PC
[04:34:25] <SWPadnos> ok, that's the dyndns one (I figured it wouldn't work, but it was close - just opposite)
[04:34:27] <jmkasunich_> the problem is that I have 5+ year old content that is probably linked to from various places, and all those links point to att
[04:35:03] <jmkasunich_> I now have a real domain name - it also points here
[04:35:21] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich.dyndns.org = jmkasunich.com
[04:35:27] <SWPadnos> cool
[04:35:51] <jmkasunich_> I figured if I'm gonna move the site to a new URL, might as well be one that I won't change again later
[04:36:04] <SWPadnos> makes sense
[04:38:42] <jmkasunich_> time for sleep I think
[04:38:48] <SWPadnos> ok - night
[05:46:12] <Jymmm> WOOHOO
[05:46:18] <Jymmm> I'm drinking coffee!!!!!
[05:51:29] <ds2> This is another wacked out thing... ER chucks cost less then just a single ER collet nut!
[05:59:44] <skinnypuppy> Got the latency way down switching from the onboard agp video to a pci card. down to 26416
[05:59:58] <Jymmm> only 7000 more to go!!!
[06:00:09] <skinnypuppy> was well over 7million
[06:01:53] <skinnypuppy> hmmm what else can be done? I'd spring for a new video card, is pci or agp worse for latency ?
[06:02:54] <skinnypuppy> I really wasn't expecting this old pci to work in ubuntu but figured it was worth a try since the onboard video sucked so bad
[06:03:59] <Jymmm> disable everything you dont need in BIOS
[06:05:11] <skinnypuppy> including second ide chanel?
[06:05:19] <skinnypuppy> cd and zip
[06:06:05] <Jymmm> and serial ports, usb, anything you can
[06:06:19] <skinnypuppy> alright should I play with the ram latency?
[06:06:31] <Jymmm> nah, that's getting into it a bit much
[06:06:45] <Jymmm> Just anyhting the system doens't have to poll is the basic idea
[06:07:17] <Jymmm> I have noticed if you disba;e PnPOS that speeds things up too, but can cause more havoc on the distro too.
[06:07:25] <skinnypuppy> alright I,m going down to slimline. Thanks for the suggestion Jymmm!!!!
[06:07:35] <Jymmm> np
[06:07:42] <skinnypuppy> I keep pnp os disabled thx again
[06:08:16] <Jymmm> Well, just be leary when you install ubuntu... it might freak out on that. if it does, just re-enable it
[06:09:04] <skinnypuppy> no prob, say is one better than the other pci agp regards to latency?
[06:09:24] <Jymmm> agp if you have a choice, other than that, eh.
[06:09:59] <Jymmm> dont buy an 85yo agp card if you have a PCI laying aorund.
[06:10:21] <skinnypuppy> Ok, it was riduculous before, and I had this pci laying around I'll see what I can get outta it.
[06:11:05] <Jymmm> one of these decades we need to get a hardware list going.... mobo's and video cards.
[06:11:15] <Jymmm> and I/O cards too.
[06:25:41] <skinnypuppy> Slight improvement down to 24384 max
[12:08:59] <cradek_> cradek_ is now known as cradek
[16:17:21] <Adam_> Morning/Afternoon
[17:57:40] <skunkworks_> what is the compile server using for virtuliztion?
[18:01:56] <vdKroon> Hi all
[18:02:57] <skunkworks_> Hi
[18:03:17] <vdKroon> I'm just new on EMC, and have some problems configuring Axis.. I could not find any info on how to do axis-slaving (gantry style machine, 2 motors for X axis)
[18:05:00] <vdKroon> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
[18:06:41] <SWPadnos> To do that kind of machine "easily", you'll need the latest version of EMC2
[18:07:04] <vdKroon> I'm on 2.1.6
[18:07:07] <SWPadnos> at the moment, it means that you'll need to compile from source, since those features ahven't been released yet
[18:07:16] <SWPadnos> they'll be in the 2.2 series
[18:07:48] <vdKroon> I've downloaded the gantrykin.c, but I'm not so skilled in Linux to make a kernel compilation
[18:08:02] <SWPadnos> I don't know the specifics of how to configure that type of machine, but I do know that there are features for doing that in the CVS source code
[18:08:11] <SWPadnos> luckily, you don't have to compile the kernel :)
[18:08:44] <SWPadnos> here's information on compiling your own EMC2:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/emcinfo.pl?Installing_EMC2#On_Ubuntu_5_10_and_6_06_from_source
[18:09:10] <vdKroon> so, until 2.2 is available, the only way to go is the 'hard' way?
[18:09:26] <SWPadnos> I think so :)
[18:10:49] <skunkworks_> it really isn't that hard. I can do it :)
[18:11:11] <SWPadnos> true. if he can do it, anyone can ;)
[18:13:43] <skunkworks_> ouch :)
[18:13:50] <vdKroon> I'm a bit familiar with compiling source, but nor kernel
[18:14:08] <anonimasu> the main thing is to have all the right dependencies
[18:14:08] <SWPadnos> you only need to compile EMC2 - the kernel and realtime system are already done for you
[18:14:11] <vdKroon> so, is there ant 2.2 source version of EMC available?
[18:14:15] <anonimasu> then it's a straightforward compile
[18:14:35] <anonimasu> atleast last time I did it :)
[18:14:50] <SWPadnos> that wiki link I posted should tell you all the steps you need to compile EMC2 from CVS. It's only about 5 or 6 commands
[18:15:17] <vdKroon> Thanks SWPadnos, but, where to get the source?
[18:15:18] <anonimasu> oh yeah, and if you have the realtime stuff it's _very_ easy :)(comapred to if you dont)
[18:15:23] <anonimasu> via cvs
[18:15:40] <SWPadnos> getting the source is also explained on that wiki page :)
[18:15:44] <jepler> read down a little bit more: 3.2. Getting the source with CVS
[18:16:40] <vdKroon> The fact is that the machine running EMC has no ntwork connection
[18:16:49] <SWPadnos> oh. that makes it a little harder
[18:17:17] <skyfox00> do you have a thumb drive?
[18:17:17] <jepler> in that case, you can visit this page:
http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cvs/emc2/ then click the link "Download this directory in tarball".
[18:17:29] <jepler> this will give you a .tar.gz file you can copy across to the non-networked computer in any way that is convenient
[18:17:40] <vdKroon> perfect =) let me see
[18:17:45] <jepler> HOWEVER the lack of a network connection will make this step hard too: 3.1. Preparing Ubuntu to compile emc2
[18:17:57] <vdKroon> uhm, cause of dependencies
[18:17:58] <jepler> that installs a bunch of packages (such as the compiler, headers, and libraries) also from the network
[18:17:59] <JymmmEMC> one 720kMB floppy at a time
[18:18:32] <vdKroon> I think i'm going to move the PC to where it can reach a wifi signal or router
[18:18:57] <skyfox00> someone should put together a list of all the files that are needed for such operations on computers with no network...
[18:20:01] <jepler> indeed, there was at one time a list of packages to download shown on the wiki. However, it quickly became out of date.
[18:20:50] <jepler> apt-get has an option to show the files that would be downloaded (--print-uris, I think) but this depends on the set of packages installed to begin with, so if I run this on my machine the results won't be applicable to yours
[18:22:25] <anonimasu> the best thing is to move it to a place where you do have a connection and get done with it :)
[18:22:48] <anonimasu> if it's totally impossible to move you'll end up with lots of more work
[18:23:15] <vdKroon> yup, I see, I'm going to do so now
[18:23:16] <anonimasu> :)
[18:27:22] <jepler> "This document describes how to use APT in a non-networked environment, specifically a 'sneaker-net' approach for performing upgrades."
http://www.batmat.net/apt-offline/
[18:27:43] <vdKroon> thanks for the link jepler
[18:28:30] <vdKroon> one thing that confuses me is that, in
http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/ , seems that the last version of EMC source, is 2.1.7 aswell
[18:29:04] <SWPadnos> the latest release is 2.1.7, but the source you'll get is actually "pre-2.1.8" or TRUNK
[18:29:14] <SWPadnos> unless you specifically ask for 2.1.7
[18:29:47] <JymmmEMC> WTH?! Costco sells funerals... I wonder if you can return one after 60 days???
http://www.costco.com/Common/Category.aspx?cat=20595&eCat=BC|20595&lang=en-US&whse=BC&topnav=
[18:29:58] <SWPadnos> one year, no questions asked!
[18:29:58] <vdKroon> ok, but that function of slave axis will not ocme until 2.2 right?
[18:30:05] <jepler> if you are on
http://cvs.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/emc2/ and click "Download this directory in tarball" you will get what we call TRUNK, the version with new features that will become emc 2.2.
[18:30:26] <vdKroon> ok ok, now I got it
[18:30:35] <JymmmEMC> SWPadnos: LOL
[18:31:22] <jepler> if you use the "Show only files with tag", you can select a specific version of emc (e.g., RELEASE_2_1_7) or a branch (e.g., v2_1_branch) -- v2_1_branch will give you the version that would become emc 2.1.8 and may have a few bugfixes compared to 2.1.7
[18:34:44] <vdKroon> ok, but, the functionality that I was asking for, axis slaving, is yet available in last CVS?
[18:34:55] <vdKroon> (sorry for my ignorance)
[18:36:36] <jepler> gantrykins is in there, but I don't personally know of anybody who has tried to use it yet on a real machine
[18:37:09] <vdKroon> OK, thanks all for your help, going to move PC, I will comment on later =)
[18:42:46] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 is away: for now...
[19:04:09] <Dallur> jepler: I have used gantrykins on a real machine
[19:04:50] <Dallur> jepler: works like a charm, only thing is one must be careful not to jog one axis before homing
[19:06:09] <alex_joni> Dallur: cool :)
[19:06:14] <alex_joni> how do you handle homing?
[19:06:28] <Dallur> alex_joni: homing is done automatically and the axis are synced up
[19:06:39] <alex_joni> cool
[19:08:00] <Dallur> stepper-gantry sample config has gantrykins config which worked fine for me
[19:09:58] <fenn> you have to use home_sequence right?
[19:10:10] <Dallur> fenn: yup
[19:10:43] <Dallur> fenn: and you can't home a single axis, you have to always home all axis
[19:11:24] <fenn> what happens if you press the 'home' button?
[19:11:39] <Dallur> fenn: if you home a single axis you will break something badly
[19:12:04] <fenn> i think having easily clicked buttons that break something badly is a bad idea..
[19:12:09] <Dallur> might be a good idea to grey out jogging and homing for single joints when in gantrykins config
[19:12:25] <Dallur> fenn: exactly
[19:12:45] <cradek> in that version does the home button get replaced with home all?
[19:13:26] <cradek> (seems to me like you might sometimes want to jog the joints a bit before homing)
[19:13:36] <skyfox00> * skyfox00 is back
[19:14:27] <fenn> i think if something gets messed up you'd either fix it by turning the motor with your hand, or editing the .ini file
[19:14:30] <Dallur> cradek: the UI is not changed at all as far as I know so it's quite possible to accidentally hit a single joint home and break it
[19:14:47] <fenn> better than having the machine rip itself to pieces
[19:14:48] <cradek> maybe that's a new AXIS feature in 2.2
[19:17:10] <jepler> I think you can always home a single joint with the Home key even if the button is Home All
[19:17:15] <jepler> Home All is the Ctrl-Home key
[19:17:31] <cradek> oh ok
[19:17:41] <jepler> Dallur: oh ok -- I thought you were still using a bunch of hal code
[19:17:47] <jepler> that's news I'm delighted to hear
[19:18:31] <Dallur> I snuck the code into trunk about 6 months ago when I finished testing it :)
[19:18:47] <Dallur> I only did one or two minor changes
[21:49:32] <Adam_> We are trying to get the spindle speed working (0-10Vdc output from the DAC) but the gain doesnt appear to be working
[21:49:52] <Adam_> also our voltage at the pin is a constant 2.5V no matter what value spindle-speed is at
[21:49:58] <Adam_> here's our code:
[21:50:02] <Adam_> -
[21:50:05] <Adam_> VFD Spindle Speed Control Dac-03-enable output P3 Pin45
[21:50:05] <Adam_> loadrt abs count=1
[21:50:05] <Adam_> loadrt or2 count=1
[21:50:05] <Adam_> addf abs.0 servo-thread
[21:50:05] <Adam_> setp m5i20.0.dac-03-gain 0.00235
[21:50:05] <Adam_> net spindle-speed motion.spindle-speed-out abs.0.in
[21:50:07] <Adam_> net spindle-on motion.spindle-on m5i20.0.dac-03-enable
[21:50:09] <Adam_> net spindle-speed-abs abs.0.out m5i20.0.dac-03-value
[21:50:12] <Adam_> -
[21:50:13] <Adam_> any suggestions?
[21:50:39] <Adam_> (# is on the first line :)
[22:12:21] <fenn> what's the value of spindle-speed-abs?
[22:13:59] <Adam_> if we turn on the spindle, its at 1
[22:14:16] <Adam_> its the spindle-speed value
[22:14:56] <fenn> spindle-speed-abs is 1?
[22:16:36] <Adam_> yeah
[22:16:49] <fenn> sounds like you mixed up spindle-on and spindle-speed-out
[22:17:17] <Adam_> its corresponding to the spindle-speed value... if it was 4000 our abs out would be too
[22:17:31] <fenn> what's the value of spindle-speed-out then?
[22:17:38] <Adam_> same
[22:17:41] <fenn> 1?
[22:17:44] <Adam_> yeah
[22:18:08] <Adam_> regardless, whatever we set it to, our Dac-03 output is always 2.5V
[22:18:24] <fenn> how are you setting the spindle speed?
[22:18:48] <Adam_> oh, m3 commands
[22:19:02] <fenn> i think you need to do S500 or something
[22:19:30] <Adam_> and we get a corresponding value at our m5i20.0.dac-03-value parameter using Hal Meter
[22:19:44] <Adam_> however, the pin itself isnt doing anything... our voltmeter never changes
[22:20:14] <Adam_> yeah, weve used many different s values
[22:20:22] <Adam_> its not that we cant input a speed
[22:20:49] <Adam_> its A) that it doesnt seem to provide a variable voltage out, and B) that it doesnt scale by the gain we've set
[22:20:50] <fenn> did you add the m5i20 functions to a thread?
[22:20:59] <Adam_> yeah the servo thread
[22:22:00] <tomp> do the other dacs work correctly?
[22:22:48] <Adam_> yeah, the y-axis servo works
[22:23:35] <Adam_> the x-axis has the same problem as this though... it outputs a constant 2.5V regardless of the value we send it
[22:23:54] <Adam_> despite having identical code to the y-axis config
[22:24:05] <fenn> try loading the m5i20 test panel
[22:24:18] <fenn> from a fresh emc.ini
[22:24:31] <fenn> maybe something else is coming along and stealing your dac's
[22:24:42] <fenn> actually that shouldnt be possible
[22:25:08] <fenn> anyway i gotta jet, maybe someone who knows something about m5i20 can help
[22:25:08] <tomp> please paste the .hal file
[22:25:17] <Adam_> thanks
[22:26:50] <Adam_> m5i20_motion.hal
http://pastebin.com/m1997c7a3
[22:27:47] <Adam_> m5i20_io.hal
http://pastebin.com/m1dc13e47
[22:28:34] <Adam_> core_servo.hal
http://pastebin.com/m203aeefc
[22:29:27] <Adam_> m5i20.ini
http://pastebin.com/m6b738737
[22:34:16] <tomp> how do you vary m5i20.0.dac-03-value ( S commands? or setp ? )
[22:36:29] <tomp> if axis 0 (X) has the same symptom as the spindle, and halmeter show the system thinks the output is correct, i would suspect wiring.
[22:37:13] <Adam_> actually i jsut checked
[22:37:30] <Adam_> the x-axis isnt outputting a value for dac-00.value
[22:37:43] <Adam_> so its an unrelated issue
[22:38:10] <Adam_> the y does, and works fine
[22:38:28] <Adam_> basically, dac-03 outputs a value but reads no voltage
[22:38:43] <SWPadnos> I don't see the analog output function added to the thread
[22:38:50] <jmkasunich_> jmkasunich_ is now known as jmkasunich
[22:39:01] <Adam_> and dac-00 outputs nothig, but reads the same voltage as dac-03... that is 2.5V (i assume, some kind of default)
[22:39:02] <SWPadnos> oh, there it is :)
[22:39:59] <Adam_> (sorry, reads no voltage change... it does read a constant V)
[22:41:09] <jepler> with X moving?
[22:41:25] <jepler> if X is stopped you'd expect its DAC to be around mid-scale
[22:43:27] <Adam_> x doesnt move
[22:43:50] <Adam_> nor does the dac-00.value change at all when we try to make it move
[22:43:54] <Adam_> it sits at 0
[22:43:59] <Adam_> and reads 2.5V on the meter
[22:44:17] <Adam_> which is crazy, since its configed identically to the y, which works
[22:47:09] <tomp> reading to same reference as Y?
[22:47:26] <Adam_> yeah
[22:47:39] <tomp> try unloaded
[22:48:46] <tomp> (maybe 2.5 is not being sourced, just visible there )
[22:53:05] <Adam_> we got a voltage to scale now to the spindle
[22:53:12] <Adam_> but its negative
[22:53:48] <Adam_> the readout for dac-03.value is a positive spindle speed, and it has an appropriate voltage to produce that... but its polarity is wrong
[22:54:10] <Adam_> (the x-axis is still fucked, but we'll ignore that for now)
[22:56:41] <Adam_> we're using abs... why is it outputting -ve?
[22:58:15] <jepler> dac -offset and -gain could turn a positive numeric input into a negative output voltage
[22:58:16] <SWPadnos> Adam_, change the dac scale and see if the output changes
[22:58:46] <Adam_> ok
[22:59:34] <Adam_> no
[22:59:41] <Adam_> if we put a scale of 2, we get the same voltages
[23:00:08] <SWPadnos> and what happens if you disconnect dac-xx-enable and sets it to false?
[23:00:26] <SWPadnos> (I'm assuming you're doing this in a halcmd, not by changing some hal files and reloading EMC)
[23:00:53] <Adam_> setp m5i20.0.dac-03-scale 2
[23:01:10] <Adam_> im not seeing the parameter "scale" in the hal meter
[23:01:21] <Adam_> apparantly this cmd isnt setting the scale
[23:01:28] <Adam_> what are we doing wrong?
[23:01:37] <Adam_> do we have to load the parameter before we set it?
[23:01:41] <SWPadnos> use halcmd show param m5i20 to see the names
[23:01:57] <SWPadnos> hal is very "discoverable", if you go looking for stuff
[23:02:43] <Adam_> it only shows dac-03-gain, interlace and offset
[23:02:53] <SWPadnos> gain is scale, but may be inverted
[23:03:05] <jepler> you probably want to "show pin" too
[23:03:20] <SWPadnos> what is the offset?
[23:04:05] <SWPadnos> ok - I see it's supposed to be 0 from the ini file
[23:05:04] <Adam_> offset is 0
[23:06:43] <SWPadnos> ok, let's be sure the 5i20 is getting updated - can you pastebin the output from `halcmd show thread` ?
[23:07:18] <SWPadnos> actually, just pastebin the output of halcmd show
[23:07:34] <SWPadnos> or halcmd show all, if that doesn't work :)
[23:13:15] <Adam_> http://pastebin.com/m386a1fff
[23:13:18] <Adam_> there you go sir
[23:13:45] <SWPadnos> thank you
[23:14:33] <SWPadnos> one thing (which isn't the output problem) - the abs function needs to be before the dac-write
[23:14:49] <jepler> #
[23:14:48] <jepler> #
[23:14:49] <jepler> bit FALSE Xenable
[23:14:49] <jepler> #
[23:14:49] <jepler> ==> m5i20.0.dac-00-enable
[23:14:52] <jepler> #
[23:14:54] <jepler> ==> m5i20.0.out-08
[23:14:57] <jepler> #
[23:14:58] <SWPadnos> it shouldn't be a problem, but it's cleaner that way
[23:14:59] <jepler> ==> pid.0.enable
[23:15:02] <jepler> ouch that paste was bad
[23:15:12] <jepler> I notice that Xenable has become disconnected from axis.0.amp-enable-out
[23:15:25] <SWPadnos> is the machine "on"?
[23:15:30] <jepler> perhaps it's missing in your halfile, or perhaps you manually unhooked it
[23:15:52] <Adam_> we are using this to turn on the drives like this
[23:15:55] <Adam_> # Power Drives from "F2" Toggle Machine Power
[23:15:55] <Adam_> net machine-enable axis.0.amp-enable-out m5i20.0.out-05
[23:16:23] <jepler> when you put axis.0.amp-enable-out on the signal machine-enable, it's removed from the old signal Xenable
[23:17:17] <jepler> unfortunately in emc 2.1.7 that error passes silently
[23:18:26] <Adam_> ok that is completing a our relay loop to power the drives
[23:18:48] <Adam_> how should we pull down our power relay instead of that?
[23:19:08] <SWPadnos> instead of the net command, just send XEnable to the extra output pin:
[23:19:28] <SWPadnos> linksp Xenable m5i20.0.out-05
[23:19:46] <SWPadnos> or connect it to the output from pin 8, where it's already being output
[23:20:15] <Adam_> i just changed it to linksp Xenable m5i20.0.out-05 and it works
[23:20:23] <jepler> "it" being the X axis?
[23:21:12] <SWPadnos> you also need to reconnect the axis.0 output back to XEnable
[23:21:25] <SWPadnos> linkps axis.0.amp-enable-out XEnable
[23:21:39] <Adam_> yes, it does :)
[23:21:43] <jepler> (or fix the hal file and restart)
[23:22:15] <Adam_> Ok our x is fixed thanks alot for that, in retrospect it makes perfect sense
[23:22:39] <Adam_> however the negative voltage out of dac-3 is still confusing
[23:23:13] <tomp> later, tell me how was Y enabled and X not? (cfgs were same, F2 was universal )
[23:23:43] <Adam_> <jepler> when you put axis.0.amp-enable-out on the signal machine-enable, it's removed from the old signal Xenable
[23:23:48] <SWPadnos> the X amp enable was (silently) disconnected from axis.0.amp-enable-out but having it explicitly connected to a different signal
[23:24:02] <SWPadnos> s/but/by/
[23:24:43] <jepler> halcmd: loadrt and2
[23:24:44] <jepler> halcmd: net x <= and2.0.out
[23:24:44] <jepler> halcmd: net y <= and2.0.out
[23:24:44] <jepler> <stdin>:2: pin 'and2.0.out' was already linked
[23:25:11] <jepler> ^^^ emc 2.2 will treat this as an error, but emc 2.1.7 silently unhooks and2.0.out from x when it encounters the second command
[23:25:24] <Adam_> can we change the polarity of dac-3?
[23:25:34] <tomp> re: neg voltage, is SpindleFwd or SpindleRev active ?
[23:25:35] <SWPadnos> yes, make the gain negative
[23:25:41] <Adam_> we tried a neg gain
[23:25:48] <SWPadnos> ok, then no - it's not working ;)
[23:25:50] <Adam_> the abs still outputs a pos
[23:26:09] <SWPadnos> one thing - try setting it to something in the 0-10 range
[23:26:11] <Adam_> I will triple check this though
[23:26:29] <SWPadnos> issue S5 or something
[23:26:29] <Adam_> 0.00235 i belive is out gain
[23:26:35] <SWPadnos> out gain is 1
[23:26:45] <Adam_> s/out/our
[23:26:46] <Adam_> haha
[23:26:53] <Adam_> whatever that means
[23:27:15] <SWPadnos> it probably shouldn't be, and it looks to me as though you're using a slightly outdated EMC, just because the output_scale isn't justified the same as other ini parameters
[23:27:50] <Adam_> Well it works now dude
[23:28:03] <Adam_> after neg gain was set and a reload on axis
[23:28:45] <SWPadnos> "a reload on axis" - does that mean you restarted EMC?
[23:28:48] <jepler> SWPadnos: what about output_scale?
[23:29:04] <SWPadnos> sorry - I was looking at AXIS_0 etc
[23:29:06] <tomp> gain?
[23:29:07] <SWPadnos> in the ini tile
[23:29:10] <SWPadnos> file
[23:29:23] <Adam_> yeah
[23:29:59] <SWPadnos> ok - I see that it's explicitly set to 0.00235 in the hal file
[23:30:15] <Adam_> yeah we set gain to -ve and it reversed the polarity... is there some reason it normally produces a negative 0-10V? im sure a negative gain isnt the slickest way to do this
[23:30:46] <SWPadnos> the buffers used on the 7i33 are inverting buffers, so maybe that's how it's supposed to work
[23:30:56] <SWPadnos> then again, it could be that the driver negates everything :0
[23:31:47] <SWPadnos> in any case, negating the scale is exactly what you want to do. (and it is pretty slick that you can fix a backeards-traveling axis with just one character change in a config file :) )
[23:31:54] <SWPadnos> backwards
[23:32:36] <Adam_> haha
[23:32:42] <Adam_> thanks a ton for the help
[23:32:48] <SWPadnos> enjoy
[23:32:52] <Adam_> we'd be up a creek
[23:33:35] <tomp> if axis1(Y) unhooked axis0 (X), why didnt axis 2 (Z) unhook axis 1 (Y) ? (already linked )
[23:33:58] <jepler> tomp: I shouldn't have chosen the letters "x" and "y" in my example
[23:33:59] <SWPadnos> only axis 0 enable was reconnected to another pin using the net command
[23:34:10] <tomp> k
[23:34:13] <jepler> in Adam_'s case, the first signal was Xenable and the second was machine-enable
[23:34:21] <tomp> ah
[23:34:34] <Adam_> yep
[23:38:33] <Adam_> brb hardware issue
[23:40:43] <toast> toast is now known as toastydeath
[23:47:14] <Adam_> # Power Drives from "F2" Toggle Machine Power
[23:47:14] <Adam_> linksp Xenable m5i20.0.out-05
[23:47:17] <Adam_> this isnt working anymore
[23:47:34] <Adam_> halmeter shows out-05 going to true when we toggle power
[23:47:51] <Adam_> however the actual pin doesnt close anymore
[23:48:20] <Adam_> we never fried it, it has a 48vdc 1A tolerance
[23:49:24] <SWPadnos> and no wires have moved?
[23:49:28] <Adam_> neg
[23:49:38] <Adam_> out of the blue
[23:49:51] <Adam_> we run 3 24vdc relays off of it
[23:50:12] <SWPadnos> do you have reverse voltage protection diodes on the output?
[23:50:29] <Adam_> we have them at the relays
[23:50:39] <Adam_> 1000v 1A
[23:51:06] <Adam_> also reverse protection diodes on the mesa card
[23:51:21] <jepler> measure before the isolation transformer?
[23:51:27] <SWPadnos> you added diodes to the mesa card?
[23:51:49] <Adam_> The 7ist says it hast hem
[23:51:52] <SWPadnos> hmmm
[23:51:53] <Adam_> 7i37
[23:52:16] <Adam_> regardless we have them at the relay
[23:52:58] <SWPadnos> it says there are diodes on the inputs, but it isn't explicit about the outputs
[23:53:18] <SWPadnos> though it's supposed to be push/pull capable, so I'm not sure that's necessary anyway :)
[23:53:59] <Adam_> we also tried switching to out-2 and that didnt pull either
[23:54:08] <Adam_> seems the outs arent outing
[23:54:38] <Adam_> we verified in halmeter that they are infact enableing
[23:55:16] <SWPadnos> was the m5i20.0.digital-out-write function somehow removed from the hal file?
[23:56:08] <Adam_> I will pastebin for you
[23:56:24] <SWPadnos> ok - pastebin halcmd show all, not the input files :)
[23:56:50] <Adam_> ok forsure
[23:57:26] <jepler> wow the 7i37 isolated inputs take 25us to turn off .. that's glacial!
[23:57:35] <jepler> I guess not really for optos
[23:57:40] <SWPadnos> I think turn-on is even slower
[23:57:59] <SWPadnos> err - no, I guess that's like 7 uS
[23:58:08] <jepler> on in 5, off in 25 is what the datasheet says
[23:58:16] <jepler> (2/5 for the MOSFET outputs)
[23:58:19] <Adam_> i am having rtapi issues
[23:58:42] <SWPadnos> the outputs are isolated with a transformer, so it takes a while to discharge the output filter
[23:58:52] <SWPadnos> I guess the oscilaltor rings fora while
[23:59:02] <Adam_> cnc@cnc-desktop:~$ halcmd show
[23:59:02] <Adam_> RTAPI: ERROR: could not open shared memory (errno=2)
[23:59:02] <Adam_> HAL: ERROR: rtapi init failed
[23:59:02] <Adam_> halcmd: hal_init() failed: -9
[23:59:02] <Adam_> NOTE: 'rtapi' kernel module must be loaded
[23:59:13] <jepler> you have to run it while emc is running..
[23:59:17] <SWPadnos> is emc running?
