#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-21

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[00:00:08] <JT-Shop> but he doesn't have pockets?
[00:00:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: That video is whats his name down in San Diego that make the bicycle parts
[00:00:33] <andypugh> Yes Jymmm, I know, which is how I know it is EMC2
[00:00:43] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Define "pockets"
[00:00:49] <Jymmm> andypugh: You mean LinuxCNC =)
[00:01:21] <JT-Shop> like Sams K&T with 100 pockets and a random tool location
[00:01:33] <andypugh> I think the problem is thinking that M6 TN has anything at all to do with the tool table.
[00:01:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: BIG ASS toolchanger =)
[00:01:40] <JT-Shop> that is Dan
[00:01:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yeah!
[00:01:56] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: BIG ASS MACHINE
[00:02:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: that too =)
[00:03:44] -!- factor [[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:03:57] -!- theorb [[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:04:02] <JT-Shop> I think some overcomplication is going on as Dan only does simple
[00:04:12] <JT-Shop> and he uses gang tooling
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[00:04:38] theorb is now known as theorbtwo
[00:06:53] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: do you think my neighbors will have the same appreciation as I do for my ill gotten booty I brought home today http://imagebin.org/194692
[00:08:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Yes, yes they will! Especially at 5am EVERY morning! How much?
[00:08:03] <andypugh> Excellent!
[00:08:24] <andypugh> I suggest standing a long way back for the proof-firing
[00:08:32] <JT-Shop> 1/2 scale fully functional 6 pound cannon
[00:08:46] <JT-Shop> it has been proofed all ready
[00:09:04] <Jymmm> how much?
[00:09:14] <EmcPT> the toolchange real do not work as I expected. Must be me as others do it. Mr Dan is the one I should talk to then? He is normally here?
[00:09:17] <JT-Shop> $600
[00:09:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did it come with balls?
[00:09:59] <andypugh> 1/2 scale 6lb = 0.75lb?
[00:09:59] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: what did you do and what did you expect and what did you get and he is here from time to time
[00:10:13] <JT-Shop> 1 3/4" diameter
[00:10:21] <JT-Shop> 3 lb
[00:10:21] <andypugh> EmcPT: I have decided that it is really quite simple, really.
[00:10:26] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nuRea6615s
[00:10:41] <JT-Shop> hi Sam
[00:10:48] <skunkworks> hi
[00:11:01] <Jymmm> Hi Son of Sam!
[00:11:05] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:11:25] <andypugh> EmcPT: The T word has _nothing_ to do with the tool table, that just tells the toolchanger which slot in the carousel to move to.
[00:11:27] <skunkworks> actually that statement is correct...
[00:12:01] <andypugh> EmcPT: Then the H-word says which line of the tool table to get the offset from.
[00:12:07] <Jymmm> skunkworks: I kinda figured as much for some reason.
[00:12:16] <skunkworks> ;)
[00:12:52] <EmcPT> So typing M6T1G43H1 should be equal to M6T13G43H1. But it is not
[00:13:05] <JT-Shop> for your amusement http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4-lUNa0CpY
[00:13:32] <JT-Shop> why are you putting M6 T1 on the line?
[00:13:49] <JT-Shop> if the tool is loaded then you just need G43 H-
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[00:14:12] <andypugh> EmcPT: No, M6 T1 will move to carousel position 1, and M6 T13 to carousel position 13.
[00:14:40] <JT-Shop> what Andy said
[00:15:17] <JT-Shop> M6 T1 G43 (load the offset for T1)
[00:15:25] <andypugh> (Assuming that you don't have RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER selected, and that your toolchanger logic hooks in to iocontrol.tool-prep-number
[00:15:39] <JT-Shop> G43 H13 (load the offset for tool 1 stored in position 13)
[00:16:24] <Tom_itx> wouldn't you typically use a multiple of say 10 to avoid confusion?
[00:16:48] <Tom_itx> ie T1 M6 H1 then G43 H11 or G43 H21
[00:16:56] <JT-Shop> depends on the size of your tool turret
[00:17:07] <EmcPT> 12 positions
[00:17:18] <andypugh> JT-Shop: You kind-off add to the confusion there by saying "the offset for T1". You mean "The offset for tool table entry index 1"
[00:17:19] <Tom_itx> how many H words are you allowed?
[00:17:25] <JT-Shop> 9999
[00:17:25] <Tom_itx> it could be a 100 offset
[00:17:55] <Tom_itx> then you wouldn't loose track of what offset went with what tool
[00:18:06] <JT-Shop> oh I left oof a couple of 99999's
[00:18:14] <andypugh> Yeah, H1, H101, H202, H301 etc.
[00:18:22] <Tom_itx> yeah
[00:18:25] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/2.5/html/gcode/tool_compensation.html#_tool_table
[00:20:24] <andypugh> JT-Shop: That doc page needs to be clear the "Pocket Number" only has any meaning at all for RAMDOM_TOOLCHANGER and is otherwise meaningless.
[00:20:45] <JT-Shop> Andy thanks, I'll fix that
[00:20:56] <andypugh> Well, check that it is true first :-)
[00:21:12] <JT-Shop> IIRC that is true
[00:21:56] <EmcPT> I appreciate all the help, but I remain quite confused. Please follow the most simple example: I have a tool that is located on slot number 1. This tool have offset 2. At the same time I need another offset for the same slot, lets say that is offset 4.
[00:22:02] <Tom_itx> what does RANDOM_TOOLCHANGER do?
[00:22:28] <JT-Shop> the tool change swaps tools in the same pocket
[00:22:35] <EmcPT> And currently I am machining with a tool on slot 3.
[00:22:38] <andypugh> It keeps a mapping between tool numbers and where they were last put
[00:22:47] <JT-Shop> so if you take tool 3 out and put tool 9 back in
[00:22:53] <Tom_itx> oh ok
[00:23:17] <Tom_itx> is that to save time indexing the turret?
[00:23:17] <EmcPT> To change to slot number 1 I do not need the M6?
[00:23:19] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: what kind of machine is it?
[00:23:23] <andypugh> EmcPT: In that case, you would load that tool with T1 M6
[00:23:45] <andypugh> Your tool table would have entries for T2 and T4
[00:23:48] <DaViruz> Tom_itx: yeah, the turret can rotate to the correct tool in advance
[00:24:09] <EmcPT> The machine in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLhbNmXOUvU
[00:24:15] <DaViruz> to the new tool. otherwise you need to put the current tool back before you can rotate the turret to the new
[00:24:41] <Tom_itx> yeah that takes some time when you have 99 or 119 etc tool belt
[00:24:44] <andypugh> EmcPT: Yes, if you already have slot 1 posiitoned, then you do not need M6. But if you do issue it, and it is already there, no harm is done
[00:25:11] <andypugh> Then, to apply offset 2 from the tool table, you need G43 H2.
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[00:25:21] <andypugh> To apply offset 4, you use G43 H4
[00:25:44] <andypugh> There is no need for the tool table to contain a tool 1 or 3 in this case.
[00:25:53] <EmcPT> but calling M6T1 (only) is loading the data in the tooltable where tool 1 is
[00:26:08] <andypugh> Arguably the column header in the tool table should be "H" not "T"
[00:26:10] <JT-Shop> it does not load any data
[00:26:18] <JT-Shop> it only loads the tool
[00:26:30] <andypugh> Only G43 loads data, M6 loads a tool.
[00:26:35] <JT-Shop> :)
[00:27:20] <JT-Shop> T1 M6 G43 H10 loads tool 1 with the offset from 10
[00:27:37] <EmcPT> here it does not.
[00:27:44] <EmcPT> Someting in the config?
[00:27:58] <andypugh> EmcPT: Could be
[00:28:07] <JT-Shop> possible, what version of LinuxCNC are you using
[00:28:19] <EmcPT> 2.6.0~pre
[00:28:26] <EmcPT> same on the stable one
[00:28:45] <andypugh> Can you pastebin the HAL file (www.pastebin.com)
[00:28:48] <EmcPT> i think
[00:29:20] <andypugh> I have a feeling that your toolchanger might be getting the wrong flags
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[00:29:44] <JT-Shop> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H10
[00:29:50] <EmcPT> I am using the standard config, as I am not running anything. I am using the standard sherline config.
[00:30:33] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H10 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[00:30:43] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H4 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[00:30:48] <EmcPT> so what goes wrong with T1 M6 G43 H14 (it loads the entry of tooltable where tool=1)
[00:31:05] <EmcPT> always what is on T1
[00:31:30] <andypugh> EmcPT: How are you determining the offset? The status box at the bottom of the screen is wrong.
[00:31:55] <rob_h> cant mix gcodes on tool change line bad things happen i think u will find
[00:32:17] <andypugh> If you look on the screen at the tool-tip position, you will see it move every time you G43 H<something>
[00:32:31] <JT-Shop> hi Rob
[00:32:35] <andypugh> rob_h: I use them all on the same line all the time, it depends on the toolchanger
[00:32:38] <rob_h> hi
[00:33:23] <EmcPT> !!!! "The status box at the bottom of the screen is wrong."
[00:34:00] <andypugh> Yes, I just noticed. It shows the selected tool, but makes an assumption about the offset applied.
[00:34:06] <rob_h> it alwasy will b with EMC and gang tooling.. unless config ur toolchanger/plc and tool pockets to relate to x number tools on a pocket/station
[00:34:59] <andypugh> I think it is probably an easy fix, to be honest.
[00:35:51] <andypugh> I could pretend it was a consequence of using the development version, but I suspect that it is the same in 2.4.7
[00:35:58] <rob_h> i guess could make it so tbl has,, t1 p1 t2 p1 . then make pocket locations ur turret postions
[00:36:35] <EmcPT> pocket needs to be unique
[00:36:39] <andypugh> rob_h: Not particularly easily.
[00:37:18] <EmcPT> but yes it appears it is working the toolchange. All this time I was looking on the offsets on the status
[00:37:30] <EmcPT> thank you all
[00:38:44] <andypugh> Now, who put that status box there? I recall it happening, I was on IRC at the time. Was it JT-Shop ?
[00:39:32] <JT-Shop> not me...
[00:39:53] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: is there some feature of 2.6 that you need to use?
[00:40:54] * JT-Shop listens to the Stray Cats :)
[00:41:26] <Tom_itx> where do you get 2.6 from?
[00:41:43] <andypugh> buildbot?
[00:41:44] <JT-Shop> git or buildbot
[00:41:50] <EmcPT> not sure. Probably not. I would like to do something like implementing a G71 and share, but I am to green on all
[00:41:54] <Tom_itx> is it on the buildbot now?
[00:41:55] <EmcPT> from git
[00:42:04] <JT-Shop> just depends on if you want RIP or installed
[00:42:25] <andypugh> G71 would be lathe roughing? It's on my list but feel free to do it so I can take it off :-)
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[00:43:13] <JT-Shop> oh yes, please do that
[00:43:26] <Tom_itx> i don't see it on the buildbot
[00:43:31] <rob_h> i think many people would be happy :)
[00:43:35] <JT-Shop> EmcPT: do you do one off stuff or mass production?
[00:43:59] <EmcPT> Honestly I would like to try. But it is quite hard to even figure out the toolchange, so you can see my current "status"
[00:44:15] <EmcPT> I probably can't make the machine move ...
[00:44:34] <EmcPT> We do between 5 and 10 per year
[00:44:53] <andypugh> 5 and 10 machines, or 5 and 10 parts?
[00:44:58] <EmcPT> machines
[00:45:11] <JT-Shop> I use ngcgui for my lathe for 95% of my work, a real time saver
[00:45:37] <JT-Shop> ok, so you have well tuned g codes...
[00:46:18] <EmcPT> We made software that outputs fanuc compatible gcode
[00:46:31] <rob_h> like a CAM program
[00:46:47] <EmcPT> and I was hoping that linuxcnc read it easly
[00:46:58] <EmcPT> yes, similar to a cam
[00:47:06] <rob_h> i made a post for CAMWORKS for solidworks.. it out puts full EMC code and also does sub calls for EMC .. one day i will finish the lathe one
[00:47:08] <EmcPT> but with predefined shapes and tools
[00:47:29] <rob_h> mean like a conversation wizard on new controls
[00:47:30] <andypugh> I just looked at the video, and I am wondering what the trick is, whenever I machine plastic I get balls of melted stuff tangled everywhere
[00:47:43] <JT-Shop> sharp tools
[00:47:48] <EmcPT> chip cutter + vacuum + tools
[00:48:11] <rob_h> not too fast on the rpm
[00:48:11] <EmcPT> it is not plastic. it is more like rubber = more difficult
[00:48:14] <andypugh> Ah, that silvery cyinder is a chip cutter?
[00:48:22] <EmcPT> yes
[00:48:38] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isTD6bDF_LI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
[00:48:49] <EmcPT> rpm is at max 2500rpm so that the rod does not jump away
[00:49:28] <rob_h> what was secret to such a clean CHNC john mine still looks messy lo
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[00:49:43] <JT-Shop> lots of elbow grease for sure
[00:50:05] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, I end up pulling the swarf off by hand too, that was rather my point.
[00:50:10] <JT-Shop> and the machine dealer power washed it before the sale I assume
[00:50:42] <JT-Shop> for UHMW I will use my had for the swarf but not metal
[00:51:37] <JT-Shop> do you like my bar puller
[00:52:34] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmRUJk0ptN4&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
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[00:53:18] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M15RA1ft3Bc
[00:53:48] <andypugh> The bar puller is good, the part-catcher needs work.
[00:54:10] <JT-Shop> but I'm done with that job now...
[00:54:15] <rob_h> b watchin youtube alll night now, once watch one videio thats it
[00:54:23] <rob_h> video
[00:54:25] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:54:58] * JT-Shop better get back to drawing cheek parts for the cannon
[00:55:06] <rob_h> maybe i can some new ones soon :)
[00:55:23] <Tom_itx> sharp cutters?
[00:55:27] <JT-Shop> yea, with the CHNC you just converted
[00:55:35] <Tom_itx> woops scrollback messed me up
[00:55:39] <EmcPT> Just look at a oring being done:
[00:55:41] <EmcPT> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddno7YzyS6o
[00:55:41] <rob_h> one more step closer tonight
[00:56:38] <JT-Shop> I think I use those same inserts
[00:58:12] <andypugh> EmcPT: I am impressed, I wouldn't have thought that was possible (except perhaps by freezing the rubber)
[00:58:16] <JT-Shop> so the inside and outside ops are the same tool/different offset issue
[00:58:38] <JT-Shop> with the T shaped too
[00:58:40] <JT-Shop> l
[00:59:16] <EmcPT> that was what I was talking. I have tooling with 4 offsets at a time.
[00:59:32] <EmcPT> We can machine rubber quite easy
[00:59:59] <EmcPT> polyurethane is more difficult (the red one)
[01:00:22] <EmcPT> maybe I can turn this into linuxemc
[01:00:29] <andypugh> EMC2 will do tool-radius compensation too, if you need that.
[01:00:29] <EmcPT> linuxcnc
[01:00:45] <JT-Shop> lol
[01:00:57] <andypugh> I mean linuxcnc too, goshdarnit!
[01:01:11] <rob_h> to the sinbin
[01:01:48] <EmcPT> For a lathe it must have tool radius compensation. Period.
[01:02:13] <EmcPT> and the cycles G71, G72 and G73. Fanuc systeam A code.
[01:02:49] <EmcPT> AND no bugs ....
[01:03:20] <andypugh> Well, you can largely get by without the roughing cycles with G-code loops.
[01:03:47] <andypugh> I think you will find that lying about the offset in the status box is a feature, not a bug :-)
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[01:04:30] <andypugh> Actually, it is odd that nobody has noticed before. Or if they have, they haven't mentioned it.
[01:04:52] <andypugh> I guess with a real machine there, you see that it is working and move on.
[01:05:16] <EmcPT> Honestly, until now, the most simple thing, I have troubles or find issues.
[01:05:38] <EmcPT> A few days ago, you also helped was with the current Gcode window.
[01:06:17] <EmcPT> I have submited a bug report to the bug traker system.
[01:06:19] <andypugh> I guess if you are used to a Fanuc lathe, then EMC2 is rather different.
[01:07:04] <rob_h> didt find it tooo different here.. every one is use to it now.. as emc is quite fanuc code friendly does not take alot ot make a program from on it, lathe or mill
[01:07:30] <rob_h> abit like when u go use a simends or mazatrol its differnet again but u soon get use to it
[01:07:51] <EmcPT> different but functional is one thing, but different and bugy ...
[01:08:27] <JT-Shop> so I'm back to the question "why are you using 2.6"?
[01:09:08] <andypugh> I find it functional, with niggles which don't interfere with it working.
[01:09:29] <EmcPT> for no especial reason. As I found issues, I took a peek to see if they where solved.
[01:09:53] <andypugh> (well, except that right now _nothing_ is working, which I think is related to the emc2 to linuxcnc conversion.
[01:10:48] <JT-Shop> I use 2.5 for about a year now but would not use the bleeding edge one if I "needed" something there
[01:11:41] <EmcPT> I am not running a machine. Just have the mesa hardware and trying to fell the code and the simulation, the toolchange and to understand if the labor that is needed to put all working.
[01:12:29] <EmcPT> But I really want to run a machine...
[01:14:17] <Jymmm> floor polisher is a machine
[01:14:18] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[01:14:24] <Jymmm> CODE WORD
[01:14:42] <JT-Shop> ZZZZZZZZ nap time
[01:14:53] <Jymmm> G'Night JT
[01:15:10] <JT-Shop> goodnight JYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYym
[01:15:39] <andypugh> EmcPT: Which Mesa hardware do you have?
[01:16:30] <EmcPT> 5i20 + analog servos (do not recall the model) + io
[01:17:14] <andypugh> servo-specific daughtercard?
[01:19:00] <EmcPT> 7i33TA
[01:19:01] <andypugh> There is a hm2-servo 5i20 demo config which should get you close. It's for a 3-axis machine, but converting to a lathe should be easier than starting from scratch.
[01:20:11] <andypugh> But, actually, pncconf is probably the place to start
[01:20:22] <andypugh> ( I always forget about that)
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[01:21:22] <EmcPT> Yes. I looked into it. But as I do not have so much time on the workshop I started at home (like today) only using and testing the code and the axis. If this would turn bad, then it would stop here.
[01:21:48] <EmcPT> I already configurated with pncconfig and it was ok.
[01:21:57] <andypugh> Are you the chap asking about emc2 lathes in Europe, on CNCzone?
[01:22:04] <EmcPT> yes
[01:23:13] <EmcPT> You can learn 10x faster if you meet a person
[01:23:23] <EmcPT> or see really examples
[01:23:28] <EmcPT> real
[01:23:32] <andypugh> There is someone trying to make a living from EMC2 conversions in Latvia
[01:23:53] <rob_h> was same in germany too andypugh
[01:25:00] <andypugh> You would be welcome to look at mine, but it's in the UK, it's stepper, it has no toolchanger, so all in all it's not a great example.
[01:25:19] <rob_h> then head up north from andy to our shop ;)
[01:26:20] <andypugh> Also, I am heading a long way north myself in a week, then when I get back from there, about 40,000 miles in a westerly direction.
[01:26:49] <andypugh> (40,000km I mean)
[01:26:54] <Tom_itx> headin on a boat trip?
[01:27:12] <andypugh> The boat is only 5600 miles.
[01:27:44] <andypugh> But with the flights at each end, I will have done a full lap.
[01:28:09] <Tom_itx> take lotsa pics
[01:28:15] <EmcPT> Take the laptop and be sure you have internet. You are quite helpfull here.
[01:29:00] <andypugh> Of what? Pictures of clouds from the plane, and pictures of sea from the boat? There will be bizarrely little to see.
[01:29:10] <Tom_itx> heh
[01:29:18] <EmcPT> Need to sleep. Tomorrow is working day.
[01:29:25] <andypugh> And no internets in the middle of the Pacific
[01:29:37] <Tom_itx> possible sea life?
[01:29:42] <EmcPT> Satellite?
[01:29:52] <Tom_itx> send EmcPT the bill for that
[01:30:01] <andypugh> There is a connection, but something like $8 per 100kB
[01:30:28] <EmcPT> At the end a Fanuc will be less expensive
[01:31:14] <andypugh> EmcPT: For the first one, possibly. But the next ones, will be a lot cheaper.
[01:31:44] <andypugh> How much is a Fanuc controller?
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[01:33:03] <EmcPT> with motors cables everthing for one machine (single aquisition) +-17000€ 0i-td mate (base model)
[01:33:14] <EmcPT> and with support
[01:33:35] <EmcPT> it can be down a lot depending on the number you buy
[01:34:28] <andypugh> Yeah, EMC2 support is free, but you get what you pay for, and can't insist if nobody wants to help.
[01:35:44] <andypugh> Still, though €3000 + some time invested gets you a nice working EMC2 installation, and the time is a one-off investment.
[01:36:30] <Tom_itx> time would be invested on any install
[01:36:41] <Tom_itx> so that could be considered a wash
[01:37:28] <jdhNC> I've spent a lot of time waiting for GE/Fanuc callbacks
[01:37:57] <EmcPT> lets see... I started it, don't know if will end it. Must do a lot. Including a nice graphic display.
[01:38:40] <jdhNC> can I install a sim only version off the live cd?
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[01:39:31] <andypugh> EmcPT: Yes, if you are selling a "branded" system, I can see there are overheads there. Do Fanuc provide that as part of the service?
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[01:46:27] <andypugh> I hate to see anyone giving up, especially as they are quite cool machines, but perhaps EMC2 isn't right for them.
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[02:01:52] <Jymmm> andypugh: for what?
[02:02:50] <andypugh> EmcPT, the seal-making lathe
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[02:03:01] <Jymmm> ah
[02:04:50] <andypugh> Darn! I forgot to make the radiusing tool tonight. Looks like an earlier morning than anticipated.
[02:04:53] <andypugh> Night all
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[02:06:02] <Jymmm> $440 for a propane tank electric blanket?! yeow!!!
[02:06:14] <Jymmm> http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200396875_200396875
[02:12:08] <Tom_itx> you should get a couple
[02:13:20] <sirHOAX> heh.
[02:13:22] <Tom_itx> might be kinda hard to use out in the backwoods at the still though
[02:14:02] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Especially when yoou're using the propane for a heater in the first place!
[02:15:02] <sirHOAX> just burn the propane to heat the tank.
[02:15:07] <sirHOAX> :-)
[02:15:12] <Jymmm> exactly
[02:15:20] <Tom_itx> too dangerous
[02:15:20] <sirHOAX> lol.
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[02:15:53] <Jymmm> I have to order this hose for my heater http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200362084_200362084
[02:16:11] <sirHOAX> log splitter. ;-q
[02:16:16] <Jymmm> These ilb propane cans kinda go quick and get expensive
[02:16:28] <sirHOAX> have fireplaces but they were gas, would have to chop them out and convert them.
[02:16:40] <sirHOAX> put the wood insert
[02:17:02] <Jymmm> I have one of these http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200395499_200395499
[02:17:11] <Jymmm> good price for it too
[02:17:19] <Tom_itx> i think i have a couple of those
[02:17:30] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the Mr Heater?
[02:17:39] <Tom_itx> hoses
[02:17:49] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: plasticizer free?
[02:17:58] <Tom_itx> huh?
[02:18:24] <Jymmm> Yeah,it's a special hose that is plactizizer free so no filter is required
[02:18:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: click on accessories
[02:19:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you have to use that filter iif you dont use that specific hose http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/NTEProdinfo?productId=200310651&storeId=6970&catalogId=4006970&langId=-1&cm_sp=Upsells-_-Accessories-_-Product%20Page
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[02:19:24] <Tom_itx> who says?
[02:19:34] <Jymmm> the mfg
[02:19:44] <Tom_itx> use a different mfg
[02:19:45] <Jymmm> the other hose leeech goo out
[02:21:14] <cstop> Goo must burn really hot!
[02:23:50] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: this hose is intended to be used WITHOUT a regulator.
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[03:48:46] <cstop> can anyone advise if it is practical to combine servo and stepper systems under EMC2? I have some misc. Parker S-6 Steppers, an Emerson FX-316 and an AMC servo setup. all accept step and direction. Just wondering if a Hybrid multi axis machine tool has some "gotchas".
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[06:12:31] <Jymmm> Poor bastard... http://i39.tinypic.com/2a5e1y.jpg
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[09:40:37] <mrsun> http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/shaper_book_page.htm just wante to share a link =)
[09:46:02] <MattyMatt> Jymmm why is his mouth open? what does he need to say? :) I'd just stare at the camera
[09:46:35] <MattyMatt> 5 secs of that, then "back to the studio"
[09:48:30] <MattyMatt> mrsun nice links, and not all shaper related
[09:49:10] <MattyMatt> the one on threads and tapers is not how to cut them with a shaper but a nice tute about doing them on a lathe, just what I need :)
[09:50:31] <mrsun> gah i want a shaper, they are so freakin beautifull machines =)
[09:50:38] <mrsun> dont know why but the pace of them
[09:50:43] <mrsun> is like soothing :P
[09:51:17] <MattyMatt> the giant ones are nice yeah
[09:51:29] <MattyMatt> a small one I guess could be quite screechy
[09:52:21] <MattyMatt> like broaching
[09:52:48] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZdbNWoySo0 small gingery still very nice =)
[09:54:46] <MattyMatt> yep :)
[09:54:47] <mrsun> there a freakin lot alu in them tho, so i would have to fire up the big guns to be able to melt the amount to make one :P
[09:55:33] <awallin> cradek: have you seen things like this from your ttt? (I'm using a modified version of ttt4.0) http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/01/non-smooth-output-from-ttt/
[09:55:41] <MattyMatt> can you get waste oil? there's none around here any more. someone already goes round with van collecting it
[09:55:51] <Mjolinor> it is illeagal
[09:55:56] <Mjolinor> illegal
[09:55:59] <Mjolinor> withouta license
[09:56:17] <mrsun> MattyMatt, fuel oil , home heating oil that is =)
[09:56:21] <Mjolinor> ok
[09:56:34] <awallin> that's perhaps not _quite_ up to modern safety-standards...
[09:56:34] <mrsun> about 250 liters of it for free, and can get more free if i remove tanks :P
[09:56:42] <Mjolinor> but "waste" that makes it illegal to move without a license
[09:57:00] <Mjolinor> stupid european laws
[09:57:33] <Mjolinor> If I go to my mates garage to change my car oil I can leave hteooil there for him to burn in his waste oil burner, if I do it at home I cannot take it up there and give it to him
[09:58:38] <mrsun> i would do it anyways :P
[09:59:00] <Mjolinor> well I do but it is jsut an example of the stupid laws that we have soemtimes
[09:59:53] <mrsun> true that
[10:00:26] <awallin> so, what are shapers used for? that video shows something that could be done with a face-mill ?
[10:00:27] <Mjolinor> he used ot have a license but they put the price up and changed hte rules
[10:00:46] <mrsun> awallin, they got replaced by mills
[10:00:50] <Mjolinor> if he transports it on a trailer then the trailer must be a tank capable of holding the contents of any recepticles on the trailer
[10:01:05] <mrsun> but nice thing with the shaper is that you can easily make your own tooling
[10:01:08] <Mjolinor> so if mirraculously all the 5 gallon plastic barrels broke at opnce the trailer would hold it all
[10:01:15] <mrsun> do not need specialized tooling like for dovetail cutters etc =)
[10:01:34] <Mjolinor> millers killed the chaper :(
[10:01:46] <Mjolinor> I love shapers but they are pretty much a redundant machine nowadays
[10:02:24] <mrsun> not when looking at it like so: 1x dovetail cutter in sweden about 70$ or so .... 1x shaper in sweden about 150$
[10:02:33] <mrsun> and the shaper i can make my own tooling for alot easier :P
[10:05:51] <MattyMatt> and it looks like you don't need coolant
[10:05:59] <MattyMatt> or ear protectors
[10:06:14] <Mjolinor> hmm they can fairly grunt when you stress tehm
[10:06:22] <Mjolinor> but I have never seen one with coolant
[10:07:48] <mrsun> and they seem to leave a very nice finnish =)
[10:08:26] <Mjolinor> good finish is hard to get
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[10:10:09] <MattyMatt> it's way down my list. I don't even have a bench grinder yet so I'm nursing my bits of used lathe tooling
[10:10:37] <archivist> Mjolinor, a domestic user is allowed to move his waste
[10:11:17] <Mjolinor> I dont think it is that simple
[10:11:23] <archivist> no license needed, eg taking stuff to tip
[10:11:38] <Mjolinor> I dont think a domestic user can take it to a non licensed place
[10:11:46] <Mjolinor> but a tip is licensed
[10:11:55] <MattyMatt> I take a more flexible approach to authority. "allowed" = "nobody stopped me"
[10:12:14] <Mjolinor> :)
[10:12:20] <archivist> I do it every week
[10:12:25] <Mjolinor> "common sense" is that factor they are trying to remove
[10:14:19] <MattyMatt> the grace hopper defence. it's easier to get forgiveness than permission
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[13:18:28] <elmo40> some times
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[14:25:09] <rob_h> trying setup a 5i20 with 7i48 & 7I37 using SV12_2X7I48_72.BIT i get some warnings
[14:25:11] <rob_h> [ 8560.652944] hm2_5i20.0: firmware: requesting hm2/5i20/SV12_2X7I48_72.BIT
[14:25:11] <rob_h> [ 8560.831572] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: this firmware has Muxed Encoder v2!
[14:25:11] <rob_h> [ 8560.831576] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: velocity computation will be incorrect!
[14:25:11] <rob_h> [ 8560.831578] hm2/hm2_5i20.0: WARNING: upgrade your firmware!
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[14:35:38] <skunkworks> yes - the velocity will be off by 16.666 or something like that..
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[14:37:04] <rob_h> thanks skunkworks guess no firmwar that is newer then
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[14:37:43] <skunkworks> yes - it has been fixed..
[14:38:06] <rob_h> just grep says i have v0.8
[14:38:17] <rob_h> see here
[14:38:18] <rob_h> http://linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=27&id=17002#17002
[14:38:23] <skunkworks> But I don't know how you get the fixed version - someone will let you know
[14:38:55] <rob_h> ok grate, as im using it on a lathe so vel being off will play games on threading
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[14:39:06] <rob_h> ill see if pcw_home can help when hes around
[14:39:36] <skunkworks> actually - for the lathe you use position...
[14:40:04] <rob_h> true
[14:40:05] <rob_h> net spindle-velocity motion.spindle-speed-in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.03.velocity
[14:40:05] <rob_h> net spindle-revs motion.spindle-revs <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.encoder.03.position
[14:40:47] <skunkworks> velocity for feed per rev and stuff. I just scaled mine. (I have been too lazy to get the latest firmware)
[14:40:59] <skunkworks> I mean busy..
[14:41:03] <rob_h> same diff
[14:41:37] <rob_h> thx
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[16:00:59] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: LOL, that sounds good!
[16:01:57] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: But, people are so stupid, they would think that his mike was broken.
[16:02:03] <Jymmm> mic
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[16:55:17] <Jymmm> I don't think I've ever seen a pegboard cart like these before... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/category_storage-organizers+pegboard-carts
[17:01:04] <mrsun> worst part about doing casting patterns .... drying times ...
[17:04:58] <sirHOAX> what are you casting?
[17:06:33] <mrsun> new motor mounts for the cnc machine
[17:07:09] <mrsun> tho its a crude pattern, its just a temporary one, want to mill one out when i get the machine going again to make it nicer :P
[17:08:48] <sirHOAX> sand/foam casting?
[17:08:48] <sirHOAX> aluminum.
[17:09:28] <mrsun> sand and wooden pattern =)
[17:09:33] <mrsun> in alyu
[17:09:34] <mrsun> alu
[17:10:23] <sirHOAX> how does that work?
[17:10:49] <mrsun> wooden pattern, pack greensand around it, remove pattern, pour metal :P
[17:11:11] <sirHOAX> heh. k
[17:11:29] <sirHOAX> so its open the top. thought it was an entire piece.
[17:11:42] <mrsun> no its not open
[17:11:43] <mrsun> two halfs
[17:11:48] <sirHOAX> ah i see. k
[17:12:01] <sirHOAX> got any pics?
[17:12:05] <sirHOAX> sounds interesting
[17:12:58] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2mqlwMyZU
[17:14:12] <sirHOAX> that you?
[17:14:17] <mrsun> no
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[17:19:20] <sirHOAX> melt down some aluminum cans
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[17:29:13] <Jymmm> Or freeway signage =)
[17:29:44] <Jymmm> Oh, and those fancy aluminum window frames at the courthouse and police station!
[17:32:59] <mrsun> or not use non cast aluminium at all for casting :P
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[18:32:57] <mrsun> YEEEY
[18:33:07] <slime> ^^
[18:33:07] <mrsun> connected up the cnc computer and connected one of the steppers, and it still works! =)
[18:33:16] <mrsun> and damn the little motors are strong
[18:33:24] <mrsun> tried to hold the table from moving ... yeah right
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[19:04:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, this is kinda funny. watch the video... http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200375813_200375813
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[19:23:06] <mrsun> hmm, damn my motor for the mill is weak (spindle motor)
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[20:11:02] <Jymmm> mrsun: Well, put your blender back in the kitchen instead of on your machine
[20:13:47] <awallin> v-carving test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4P9SvT4L7g
[20:16:31] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: ouch... 2k4$ for siuch a cheap construction?
[20:17:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: Heh, but it has a key lock!!! lol
[20:17:04] <Loetmichel_> that cna be made out of 2 electric winches and some square steel tuebs...
[20:17:54] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: 1/2" EMT and one trailer winch, remember it only supports 200lbs
[20:18:23] <Loetmichel_> ah, ok ;)
[20:19:00] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i53.tinypic.com/2eq5d6o.jpg
[20:21:18] <Loetmichel_> mrsun: i just have upgraded last year from a 400W Proxxon spindle to a 800W China HF spindle... so dont talk about weak spindles... the new one is WAY better than the proxxon, but even that isnt capable of more than 6mm 2 flute in Steel ;-)
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[20:21:58] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: EMT stands for extrudet metal tube?
[20:22:35] <Loetmichel_> -t+d
[20:23:03] <Jymmm> Loetmichel_: $2USD for 10ft stick... http://cableorganizer.com/conduit/emt-conduit.htm
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[20:26:18] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i42.tinypic.com/kdr9g4.jpg
[20:27:21] <Jymmm> awallin: http://i39.tinypic.com/5ydukh.jpg
[20:29:02] <Jymmm> awallin: These two are the EXACT same artwork, just inverted... http://i42.tinypic.com/15hft77.jpg and http://i39.tinypic.com/iefmgy.jpg
[20:29:49] <Jymmm> awallin: all v-carved fwiw
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[21:19:59] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: thats called "stapa-rohr" in germany.
[21:20:32] <Loetmichel_> "STahl-PAnzer-Rohr" (steel armor tube)
[21:22:27] <Loetmichel_> and i dont know... i wouldnt load these tubes wiht more than a few pounds.
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[21:23:26] <Loetmichel_> i have seen that the welding split under moderate force on the tube... on the whole length ;-)
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[22:51:29] <MattyMatt> Jymmm, were they done in several depth passes? I think I finally get awallin's one now, it does it in one pass
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[22:56:37] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: you mean like 1" then 2", then 3" etc?
[22:57:59] <MattyMatt> on the text in your vid it does the outlines first, then comes back and carves the deeper bits
[22:58:12] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I have no video.
[22:59:19] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: awallin's video is showing the TTF trajectory his been devleoping
[22:59:21] <MattyMatt> oops sorry, I got to this one from his :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrXi_ffDAOk
[23:00:09] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Yes, that is how the pics I linked to are done.
[23:00:56] <MattyMatt> his does the tapering by digging deeper for the wider parts in one pass
[23:01:43] <Jymmm> Well, depth (other than maxiumum), is not settable.
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[23:02:30] <Jymmm> SWPLinux: howdy
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[23:03:14] <SWPLinux> hiya
[23:03:18] <Jymmm> lol
[23:04:01] <Jymmm> I got a 20lb propane tank for $5 off CL!
[23:04:20] <Jymmm> and it's only 4yo =)
[23:04:32] <MattyMatt> full? the price of gas is enormous these days
[23:04:42] <Jymmm> No, partial.
[23:04:45] <MattyMatt> sweet
[23:05:44] <Jymmm> Roughly $30 to fill. But $30 for exchange for only 15lbs.
[23:05:47] <MattyMatt> at the local shop butane bottle = £10 deposit. 50lb of gas £31
[23:06:44] <MattyMatt> sorry 12kg, so 25lb
[23:06:48] <Jymmm> I have one of these http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=24
[23:07:04] <Jymmm> It uses 1lb disposable, which are about $4 USD/ea
[23:07:28] <Jymmm> I just ordered the hose to connect to 20lb tank for $28 shipped, so should save me some money
[23:08:07] <MattyMatt> quite quickly
[23:08:12] <Jymmm> ?
[23:09:00] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: I lost ya there
[23:09:18] <MattyMatt> $4 a lb means you'll get your $28 back after one big bottle full
[23:09:51] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Oh, yeah. definantly. and $5 for the 20lb tank is a steal too
[23:10:07] <MattyMatt> even big bottles is more expensive than connecting to the domestic supply. I'd do that if I could
[23:11:34] <Jymmm> Well, I have been using the electric dryer to help heat the garage. but doens't work that well and is VERY expensive.
[23:12:23] <Jymmm> I can turn this lil propane heater on as needed, and works well enough to prevent my fingers from hurting from the cold.
[23:12:31] <MattyMatt> if you use bottle gas in a city here, it's because you're too poor to pay your gas bill
[23:12:43] <Jymmm> lol
[23:12:49] <Jymmm> Hey, whatever works.
[23:13:09] <MattyMatt> one advantage of living oon a crowded island is piped gas everywhere
[23:13:24] <Jymmm> I can also buy one of those adapters and refll the small 1lb tanks too
[23:13:37] <MattyMatt> it sure has got expensive the last couple of years tho
[23:13:43] <Jymmm> from the 20lb tank that is
[23:14:53] <Jymmm> from what I read, the trick is to FREEZE the 1lb tanks, and theget the 20lb tank as warm/hot as you can (sitting in the sun, etc)
[23:15:20] <Jymmm> That way, you fill the 1lb the most that way.
[23:17:59] <Jymmm> I guess it has todo with thermal expansion. The big tank wants to contract while the lil tank wants to expand. So you get a push/pull sorta thing.
[23:21:32] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Read the first few reviews they explain it better http://www.amazon.com/Heater-F276172-1-Pound-Disposable-Propane/product-reviews/B000AMC5WO/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
[23:21:37] <MattyMatt> if you're doing it as liquid, all cold would get you the most. I think warming the source is to prevent overfilling
[23:22:58] <MattyMatt> e.g. if you fill the 1lb tank to the brim when cold, then warm it up in the sun, kaboom
[23:23:50] <MattyMatt> it reminds me of Have Spacesuit, Will Travel
[23:24:28] <Jymmm> MattyMatt: Well, you NEVER fill 100% for safety reasons.
[23:33:42] <andypugh> MattyMatt (Scrolling back) Yes, my parent's hamlet has gas. No piped water or sewage, but piped gas.
[23:34:14] <Jymmm> andypugh: No water/sewage?! OH MY GAWD!!!
[23:34:40] <Jymmm> Whats a hamlet?
[23:35:02] <andypugh> They have a private water supply, and a septic tank for the village. The point is that the only mains services are electric and gas.
[23:35:16] <andypugh> Technically a hamlet is a village without a church.
[23:35:22] <Jymmm> oh, heh
[23:35:36] <Jymmm> DietyLess
[23:35:50] <Jymmm> Hevens!
[23:35:51] <Jymmm> lol
[23:36:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: you said no PIPED, did you mean no City service?
[23:36:45] <Jymmm> I'd consider septic piped, unless it's below an outhouse
[23:36:59] <andypugh> Nice water. Technically too full of faecal coliforms for EU regs (as it is totally untreated) but the locals live for ever.
[23:37:04] <Jymmm> and you have to go outside and hand pipe the water
[23:37:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: Why such high ground waer contamination?
[23:38:27] <andypugh> we reckon it is clean at the spring source, but the stone conduit through the cow fields is leaky :-)
[23:38:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: oh. They probably have become immune to it.
[23:39:16] <Jymmm> andypugh: I found a filter that does 1 million gallons
[23:41:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://www.sawyer.com/SP121.htm
[23:41:59] <Jymmm> andypugh: Or this one if you are in a 3rd world country http://www.sawyer.com/viral.htm
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[23:43:16] <andypugh> The folks just use a filter jug. But I think that was mainly because some sort of crustacean crawled out the tap one day :-)
[23:44:35] <Jymmm> lol
[23:44:58] <Jymmm> andypugh: this is cool http://www.justdrink.net/
[23:45:37] <Jymmm> it will screw on to a standard water bottle
[23:45:46] <andypugh> I think I have seen them before.
[23:46:01] <Jymmm> watch the video at the bottom of the page
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