#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-01-30

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[01:07:41] <ssi> so I had something super fun happen tonight
[01:07:44] <ssi> my mill quill seized on me D:
[01:07:56] <ssi> all at once... it got stiff and then locked up almost completely, within like 30 seconds
[01:07:58] <Valen> :-<
[01:08:07] <ssi> not sure what to do :P
[01:08:16] <Valen> when they go they do quick
[01:08:31] <ssi> the spindle's still running fine, but the quill won't move
[01:08:52] <ssi> I guess I'm gonna have to take the damn head apart
[01:09:02] <ssi> never done it before on a bridgeport type mill
[01:09:02] <Valen> dunno what it is, i'd start by looking at the bits that make it go up and down
[01:09:29] <Valen> perhaps ask on cnczone or something if its known
[01:12:26] <skunkworks> quill?
[01:12:33] <ssi> it's a manual machine :P
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[07:16:35] <alex_joni> Jymmm: pong
[07:16:45] <Jymmm> LAG
[07:17:25] <alex_joni> connection issues..
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[09:06:58] <chaudhary> hi
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[12:21:37] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Save 20% http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sad/2824426031.html
[12:24:31] <TekniQue> LED and black hat in the same context
[12:24:32] <TekniQue> lolling
[12:24:48] <Jymmm> Who's LED ?
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[12:28:12] <TekniQue> Jymmm: light emitting diodes
[12:29:13] <Jymmm> I said WHO, not what. I guess Black Hat is not a company then.
[12:29:21] <Jymmm> in this context
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[13:39:31] <Jymmm> GoSebGo: <----- Is that a hint, or a reminder?
[13:42:58] <Jymmm> VINTAGE Shabby Chic my ass, try FUGLY instead... http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/for/2789250403.html
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[14:00:40] <alex_joni> fugly indeed
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[16:12:07] <skunkworks> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/
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[16:57:39] <mrsun> hmm, enmills with relief above the cutting edges, where the heck do you find that? :)
[16:57:50] <mrsun> or maybe one should just buy extra long endmills :P
[16:58:48] <syyl_> you mean with a thinner shank above the flutes?
[16:59:08] <mrsun> yes
[16:59:19] <mrsun> i know some sizes have that, like 7mm has 8mm shank or something
[16:59:49] <mrsun> no 7 has 6 :P
[17:12:45] <syyl_> those exist
[17:12:49] <syyl_> but are not cheap
[17:13:03] <syyl_> mostly that are hpc/mtc carbide cutters
[17:13:07] <syyl_> with a long shank
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[17:13:47] <syyl_> http://www.hoffmann-tools.com/Zerspanung/20-VHM-Fraeser/VHM-Fraeser-HPC-ZOX-10-mm-GARANT-oxid.html
[17:13:57] <syyl_> you have something like that in mind, right?
[17:13:57] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:17:31] <mikegg> mrsun: chuck the tool up and spin it slowly, then use a grinding wheel to carefully remove some material.
[17:18:00] <syyl_> thats the cheaper way :D
[17:18:12] <Loetmichel> *baaaaahhh* this PVC foam is the grandfahter of Dirt. its electrostatic, very light and flies EVERYWHERE :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12748
[17:18:13] <syyl_> with a cordless drill on the benchgrinder you get a pretty good reult
[17:18:30] * Loetmichel is making more cable spools
[17:18:57] <skunkworks> vacuum!
[17:19:19] <syyl_> shopair ;)
[17:22:31] <pcw_home> The leaf blower theory of cleanup --> blow the problem somewhere else
[17:22:38] <Loetmichel> skunkworks: will do... AFTER the part is done
[17:23:06] <syyl_> thats whot we do at work, pcw_home ;)
[17:23:18] <Loetmichel> syyl_: compressed air? so i have the green/red swarf EVERYWHERE in the machine and the shop?
[17:23:29] <syyl_> in YOUR shop :D
[17:23:31] <syyl_> not mine
[17:23:32] <syyl_> :P
[17:23:43] <Loetmichel> syyl_: BAD syyl_!
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[17:25:28] <archivist> machine should be faster so it throws the chips further away
[17:25:50] <syyl_> good technique
[17:26:15] <Loetmichel> hrhr, the G64P0.05 generates some strage noises. switching very fast between accelerating and breaking, like a tremolo ;-)
[17:26:35] <Loetmichel> archivist: already going 1200mm/min
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[18:52:49] <mrsun> hmm, in what configuration is steppers the strongest?
[18:52:54] <mrsun> full step ? half step etc?
[18:53:05] <jdhNC> 0 step
[18:53:16] <jdhNC> it's all downhill from there.
[18:53:42] <mrsun> haha =)
[18:57:52] <mrsun> oh damn, goest fast down when you try and step fast =)
[18:58:03] <jdhNC> yep
[18:58:42] <jdhNC> goes down fast from full->half
[18:59:08] <mrsun> but say what would be best for a cnc machine then, half step ? 1/4 ?
[18:59:51] <mrsun> or doesnt microstepping make a difference in the power of the motor ?
[18:59:58] <jdhNC> you have to trade off torque for speed, both of which are driven by size and cost
[18:59:59] <mrsun> read that like in half step you lose about 30%
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[19:00:48] <jdhNC> search for 'microstepping myths'
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[19:02:07] <jdhNC> you could over-spec your motor 10x, use 16/steps and still have enough power, but you lose speed
[19:02:39] <mrsun> 9,8% holding torque at 1/16 .. (thats what im running)
[19:03:22] <mrsun> tho holding torque does that have anything with how much it can handle to move ?
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[19:06:02] <jdhNC> yes, but you can still trade speed for power
[19:08:13] <mrsun> by just adjusting down the maximum speed you mean ?
[19:09:35] <jdhNC> if you can live with slow, then you can have more power
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[19:10:07] <mrsun> so lowering the microstepping + the speed would kick ass then ? :)
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[19:11:09] <jdhNC> full-step, 0 RPM is max torque
[19:11:26] <jdhNC> increase the speed, or the stepping and torque drops
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[19:28:56] <JT-Shop> mrsun: holding torque is how hard it tries to not move
[19:29:25] <mrsun> JT-Shop, ye but all steppers are specified in that, dont know how that is realy relevant information imo =)
[19:29:33] <mrsun> as i want to know how hard it tries to move =)
[19:29:57] <JT-Shop> depends on the voltage as well as a zillion other things
[19:30:26] <JT-Shop> good steppers have a torque voltage speed chart
[19:31:04] <PCW> Beyond the 1 to 1/2 step change higher microstepping ratios do not result in much torque loss
[19:31:06] <PCW> but because the flatness of the holding torque vs position which is determined by the fixed 50 pole
[19:31:07] <PCW> mechanics of the step motor, you dont gain much accuracy at higher microstepping ratios except
[19:31:09] <PCW> at very light loads
[19:32:02] <JT-Shop> http://www.automationdirect.com/static/specs/surestepmotors.pdf
[19:32:28] <JT-Shop> mrsun: look at page 2
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[20:25:33] <mrsun> http://www.lathes.co.uk/stepperhead/img17.jpg damn i like that "screw" =)
[20:25:40] <mrsun> leadthingie for the table =)
[20:26:06] <jdhNC> like a worm gear thing in there?
[20:27:08] <mrsun> yeah, the wormwheel insted of a leadscrew
[20:27:34] <mrsun> http://www.lathes.co.uk/stepperhead/page2.html its a quite amazing machine overall =)
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[20:30:04] <jdhNC> I like the toolpost
[20:31:55] <mrsun> theres a page3 and page1 also
[20:34:35] <JT-Shop> pcw is there a layout of the mounting holes for the 7i47 somewhere?
[20:34:59] <gene__> I'm back, with another headache
[20:35:54] <PCW> should be in the 7I47 manual (last page)
[20:37:41] <gene__> Its catching the probe break as a program stopping error on the next move away after the G38.2 has completed??????? IMO it should ignore the probe when not executing a G38.2
[20:37:55] <gene__> Ideas
[20:37:58] <gene__> Ideas?
[20:39:31] <JT-Shop> I must need to download the manual again it is missing from my copy
[20:40:36] <JT-Shop> yep, there it is in the manual :)
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[20:47:07] <JT-5i25> PCW on page 8 there is a tiny typo "If you wish to use a single power supply for the 7I76s field outputa and field logic power"
[20:48:25] <gene__> Humm, just found another problem, its all running on cpu0 & its pegged out
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[20:51:55] <gene__> isolcpus=1 is in the grub.cfg for this kernel, this is a showstopper I didn't have with emc-2.6.0-pre
[20:52:44] <mrsun> is it possible to use a lower resolution encoder compared to the stepping ?
[20:52:55] <mrsun> 200p encoder for 800 step/revolution stepper =)0
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[21:02:09] <PCW> thanks JT-5i25, fixed
[21:07:04] <gene__> Humm, just found another problem, its all running on cpu0 & its pegged out
[21:07:11] <gene__> isolcpus=1 is in the grub.cfg for this kernel, this is a showstopper I didn't have with emc-2.6.0-pre
[21:07:15] <gene__> Ideas?
[21:09:51] <mrsun> hmm, was thinking of making a manual control panel for the mill, using 3 rotary encoders for the moving then buttons to select to move like 1mm/step of the encoder, 0.1mm etc etc ... but how the heck would one get all that info into emc ...
[21:10:16] <mrsun> *linuxcnc
[21:10:17] <mrsun> :P
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[21:11:28] <mrsun> only got 5 inputs from the breakout board =)
[21:13:50] <mrsun> hmm, aparently can use usb interface for stuff like that ?
[21:13:54] <mrsun> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_Remote_Pendant
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[21:29:38] <gene__> In fact, nothing I do is using cpu1. WTHeck?
[21:30:51] <Valen> isocpus is good as a rule
[21:30:56] <Valen> improves your latency
[21:31:07] <Valen> how many cores do you have?
[21:31:27] <gene__> 2, and isolcpus=1 is in the grub.cfg
[21:31:45] <Valen> the isocpus things puts all the realtime tasks onto one cpu and leaves the other cpu to do silly things like put stuff on your screen
[21:31:55] <gene__> it is an atom board, a D525
[21:32:10] <Valen> the behavior is by design
[21:32:20] <Valen> turning isocpus off will give you worse latency
[21:32:43] <gene__> Taint working, all of linuxcnc is running on cpu0, and its plumb tapped out
[21:33:00] <Valen> thats normal
[21:33:12] <Valen> well everything running on one core is normal
[21:33:25] <Valen> you don't see anything running on the other cpu
[21:33:51] <PCW> shouldn't userland processes run on the other?
[21:33:56] <Valen> are you actually having a problem?
[21:34:18] <Valen> i'm pretty sure thats what he's seeing, one cpu is maxed out running linuxcnc stuff
[21:34:49] <gene__> Is .5 seconds response to a keypress, or release, normal? I set the base period out to 65 u-secs without seeming to restore real time control
[21:35:08] <Valen> you dont have hyperthreading or anything on?
[21:36:12] <gene__> Yes, one cpu0 is running 75% when linuxcnc is running, cpu0 is 0% full time, hyperthreading is off in the bios or gkrellm would be showing me 4 cores
[21:36:27] <Valen> no half a second of lag in the UI is abnormal
[21:37:07] <Valen> you can turn the isocpus thing off as a one off by editing the line in grub when it boots but i don't think it will solve your problem
[21:37:27] <Valen> you shouldn't be using 75% cpu doing nothing
[21:37:54] <gene__> I did not have this with emc2-6.0.pre2442, I do with linuxcnc-2.6.0-pre2442
[21:38:04] <Valen> sounds like a bug
[21:38:18] <gene__> How can I revert
[21:38:36] <Valen> how are you installing it?
[21:38:46] <gene__> installed last night
[21:38:47] <Valen> if stability is important you shouldn't be running pre-release lol
[21:38:54] <gene__> :-)
[21:39:04] <Valen> where did you get the pre-release emc from?
[21:39:12] <Valen> did you install it from source
[21:39:19] <Valen> nightly build bot?
[21:39:22] <gene__> so far its been nrock solid. From the repo
[21:39:37] <Valen> so you built it from source then?
[21:39:47] <Valen> running make and make install etc?
[21:39:53] <gene__> No, synaptic installed it
[21:41:07] <gene__> from buildbot lucid master-rt
[21:42:11] <Valen> probably easiest to uninstall then go to the 2.5 branch. thats the current release isnt it?
[21:42:55] <gene__> bad dog, no biscuit? Not sure, will I lose my data dirs?
[21:43:11] <Valen> generally shouldn't
[21:43:16] <Valen> might be an idea to take a copy
[21:43:34] <Valen> running nightly builds isn't for rookies lol
[21:43:51] <Valen> alternatly mention your problem on the mailing list
[21:44:07] <Valen> and see if anybody notices and makes a fix ;->
[21:44:54] <gene__> what do I edit that last line to? Who you callin a rookie, anyway I'm 77 and been using emc since 2.0 days
[21:45:29] <Valen> then quit yer wingin and learn how to edit a sources file ;-P
[21:45:30] <gene__> I forgot the smiley, sorry :-)
[21:45:39] <Valen> (note mine had a wink)
[21:46:12] <Valen> your in lucid i presume?
[21:46:15] <gene__> duly noted, gotta pull any low hanging chains ;)
[21:46:16] <Valen> 10.04 i think
[21:46:49] <gene__> I think I'm now using something that new in 2.6
[21:46:59] <Valen> something like "deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ hardy v2.5_branch-rt" i believe
[21:47:03] <gene__> But I'll try, bbl
[21:47:08] <gene__> Thanks
[21:47:22] <gene__> yes, 10.04
[21:47:38] <Valen> so you had http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ hardy master-rt before?
[21:48:17] <gene__> no, regular 2.4.7 something
[21:49:14] <Valen> hold up
[21:49:36] <Valen> oh you went from regular releases to the master branch?
[21:49:43] <Valen> in the sources file
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[21:55:28] <gene__> yes, about a month ago
[21:56:29] <gene__> this seems to have happened with the name change
[21:57:53] <gene__> I had to rename some dirs and fix paths in the ini file, did I miss adjusting something else?
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[22:01:50] <gene__> I renamed ~gene/emc2 to ~/gene/linuxcnc, and then fix the same thing in the ini files PROGRAM_PREFIX string. Was there something else I missed? Perhaps someoption in a loadrt statement in the .hal file?
[22:07:06] <Valen> I don't know, I'm running 2.5 because i needed some bits, i havent upgraded it in months
[22:13:56] <gene__> I just reinstalled emc-2.6.0-pre-2264 from the same buildbot and it all on cpu0 again, so that wasn't it.
[22:15:19] <gene__> I just reinstalled emc-2.6.0-pre-2264-gfecf238 from the same buildbot and it's still all on cpu0, showing about 25% of it, so that wasn't it.
[22:15:53] <gene__> Dinner time while I cogitate on this revoltin development :-)
[22:16:41] <gene__> When I get back, I'll reboot just for S&G.
[22:20:38] <Valen> its all *supposed* to be on one cpu
[22:20:52] <Valen> the other cpu is used for realtime tasks only
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[22:25:49] <Valen> and unless whatever it is is multithreaded it wont use multiple CPU's anyway
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