#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-09

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[00:20:31] <elmo401> I think cncjerry has too much backlash ;)
[00:20:37] <elmo401> but he doesn't want to admit it
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[02:12:43] <minibnz> hi all just wondering if anyone here has used a SEIG X2 mill, i am thinking of buying one to complement my 3d printer, and was thinking with all my left over parts i can CNC it :) just wondering what they are like to use
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[02:13:45] <minibnz> going to add a dividing head and DRO to it so i was thinking EMC might be a good choice to drive it
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[02:19:50] <Gensor> who here is running mirc?
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[02:22:38] <Tom_itx> me
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[02:23:33] <Gensor> I cant remember how to enable it so it opens web pages when www etc shows up
[02:24:05] <Tom_itx> automatically?
[02:24:14] <Tom_itx> i've never done that
[02:24:22] <Gensor> yes... i had it working one time
[02:25:08] <Tom_itx> Irc options catcher
[02:25:12] <Tom_itx> look there
[02:26:02] <Gensor> can you send me a www.xxx etc
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[02:27:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/Boxes/milling1.jpg
[02:30:06] <sirhoax> slowly loading here.
[02:30:24] <Tom_itx> yeah my router sucks
[02:30:24] <Tom_itx> sorry
[02:30:26] <Gensor> nice sherline
[02:30:38] <sirhoax> heh. need to downsize the image size ;-)
[02:30:50] <Gensor> can you send another link?
[02:30:58] <sirhoax> nice what are you milling wax?
[02:32:14] <Tom_itx> no a plastic box
[02:32:18] <Tom_itx> for my programmers
[02:32:41] <sirhoax> k.
[02:34:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/boards/USBTiny_Mkii/USBTiny_Mkii_index.php
[02:34:40] <Tom_itx> those
[02:34:40] <Tom_itx> don't click on that, i'm gonna reset the router
[02:34:40] <Tom_itx> gawd it's slow
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[02:35:43] <Gensor> Many thanks Tom
[02:35:51] <seb_kuzminsky> minibnz: i had one
[02:36:00] <seb_kuzminsky> it was good for what it was, but it had its limitations
[02:36:17] <seb_kuzminsky> lots of backlash
[02:36:20] <seb_kuzminsky> fiddly to tune
[02:36:29] <minibnz> ahh ok i am only plan on milling aluminum and plastics and not that big
[02:36:42] <seb_kuzminsky> i did only Al on mine
[02:36:49] <seb_kuzminsky> oh wait, some mild steel too
[02:37:06] <seb_kuzminsky> read up on the head drop problem before you break your spindle drive gears
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[02:37:14] <minibnz> oh backlash hmmm, i have a mate that said me would help if i need it to clean it up
[02:37:17] <Tom_L> that should be alot better
[02:37:47] <minibnz> ooo <seb_kuzminsky> thanks for the warning
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[02:38:25] <seb_kuzminsky> minibnz: it definitely needs cleanup and tuning and truing before you use it
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[02:38:49] <Gensor> anyone know of a bridgeport interact for sale other than ebay?
[02:38:58] <seb_kuzminsky> polish the gibs, align the column, align the spindle axis with the column (google for rollie's dad's method)
[02:39:23] <seb_kuzminsky> bbl
[02:43:27] <Tom_itx> Gensor, http://www.maritool.com/Tool-Holders/c23/index.html
[02:43:32] <Tom_itx> there's your other link
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[02:44:43] <Tom_itx> does that option really work?
[02:44:48] <Tom_itx> i didn't even know it was there
[02:47:05] <Gensor> works fine now
[02:53:22] <sirhoax> anyone know of a good spindle for small engraving bits?
[02:53:45] <sirhoax> using a portal cable now
[02:54:01] <jdhNC> how much do you want to spend?
[02:54:29] <sirhoax> money is the issue. was looking at wolfgangengineering's spindles.
[02:54:41] <sirhoax> guess there isn't a cheap alternative.
[02:55:08] <sirhoax> the porter cable is good for 0.06" not sure if its good any smaller.
[02:57:13] <sirhoax> for milling plexiglass is there a secret? heh.
[02:57:26] <sirhoax> because polycarbonate isn't as bad to mill.
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[02:57:58] <Tom_itx> don't get it hot
[02:58:54] <sirhoax> the polycarbonate was machining alright.
[02:59:11] <sirhoax> not the plex. or it could be acrylic.
[02:59:14] <sirhoax> unless its the same.
[02:59:21] <Tom_itx> same
[02:59:31] <Tom_itx> there are a couple different kinds
[02:59:44] <sirhoax> yea polycarbonate is a better alternative. compared to plexiglass.
[02:59:48] <Tom_itx> one is more expensive than the other
[03:00:19] <Tom_itx> one is cast
[03:00:27] <Tom_itx> i forget about the other
[03:00:49] <jdhNC> there are cheapish chinese spindle+vfd combos on ebay and keling
[03:01:13] <Tom_itx> put good bearings in them and i hear they're ok
[03:01:27] <sirhoax> what about an air spindle?
[03:01:27] <Tom_itx> no personal experience there
[03:01:40] <cstop> spindles? No clue about price, but we have three of the small machines in commercial service for over ten years without a hitch http://www.visionengravers.com/products/Vision-router-engraving-accessories.html#C2
[03:02:55] <sirhoax> dentistry tool, possibly.
[03:03:09] <sirhoax> must sound nice ;-)
[03:03:17] <sirhoax> neighbors will think i'm drilling teeth.
[03:03:22] * sirhoax snickers.
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[03:08:14] <hmm> Quick question: What's the difference between a profiling and a pocketing operation?
[03:08:39] <hmm> It's possible to profile the inside of a pocket but not possible to pocket the perimeter of a profile, right?
[03:08:39] <Tom_itx> pocket removes it all
[03:08:47] <Tom_itx> profile cuts the perimeter
[03:08:54] <hmm> ok
[03:08:56] <hmm> thanks
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[03:09:24] <sirhoax> heh.
[03:09:29] <jdhNC> unless you just want a pocket the same width as your cutter
[03:09:50] <Tom_itx> pocket usually allows for islands etc
[03:11:58] <jdhNC> cheap spindle: http://www.cnconabudget.com/
[03:13:56] <sirhoax> need a spindle to etch circuit boards
[03:14:10] <sirhoax> think its .005" if my memory serves me correct.
[03:15:06] <sirhoax> guess that spindle may do it.
[03:17:06] <sirhoax> just like the idea of air, but again would have to run a compressor.
[03:17:17] <sirhoax> but it doesn't consume much air from what i've heard.
[03:17:23] <jdhNC> compressors suck
[03:18:44] <sirhoax> yea just adds to the mess. heh. not much space here as it is.
[03:19:07] <jdhNC> the noise is awfuj
[03:19:44] <Tom_itx> stick it in a room by itself
[03:19:57] <Tom_itx> our screw compressor was
[03:20:13] <Tom_itx> but it was like standing next to a jet
[03:20:23] <Tom_itx> well not quite that bad..
[03:21:47] <Tom_itx> i should show you how to 'etch' circuit boards :)
[03:22:20] <Tom_itx> i tried milling and didn't like it
[03:22:42] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[03:22:47] <Tom_itx> that's my tank
[03:24:07] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyTPI2.jpg
[03:24:21] <Tom_itx> that has 3 traces under it (SOT23-6 package)
[03:24:39] <sirhoax> nicely done.
[03:24:39] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/tiny/tinyboard2.jpg
[03:24:53] <Tom_itx> toner transfer
[03:25:17] <sirhoax> http://youtu.be/DT0xDY31ZX0
[03:25:38] <sirhoax> successful milling PCB .. expensive spindle.
[03:25:51] <Tom_itx> my spindle rpm isn't high enough
[03:29:33] <sirhoax> need a better controller. his machine moves much faster than mine.
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[03:29:53] <sirhoax> er. frustrating w/slow speeds.
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[03:30:00] <Tom_itx> yep
[03:30:15] <Tom_itx> i figured with what i have it would be easier to etch
[03:30:34] <Tom_itx> most things i'm serious about anymore i just have done
[03:31:33] <Tom_itx> although i've got enough copper to last the rest of my lifetime
[03:34:04] <sirhoax> guy doesn't even sell the spindles anymore
[03:34:08] <sirhoax> http://stores.ebay.com/Wolfgang-Engineering
[03:49:55] <sirhoax> http://www.brusselsprout.org/CNC/1P-Probe/
[03:51:34] <sirhoax> grrr. mach3 !
[03:51:40] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/probe_index.php
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[03:53:35] <sirhoax> nice.
[03:58:23] <sirhoax> can't wait to finally work out all the quirks w/this cnc
[03:58:52] <sirhoax> between setting it up and coding. it has been a bumpy start trying to find the best means to get efficient using it.
[03:59:18] <sirhoax> think i may have a system. but, we'll see its constantly being revamped.
[03:59:57] <sirhoax> wanted to do the 4th axis.
[04:00:03] <sirhoax> not even sure i'll find the time.
[04:00:28] <Tom_itx> i know my time is limited
[04:00:40] <Tom_itx> i wanted to make a rotary but never seem to find time
[04:01:12] <Tom_itx> it might be different if i was doing production work
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[04:01:28] <frysteev> http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1127975--special-transit-meeting-karen-stintz-readies-motion-to-put-lrt-on-finch-and-eglinton-and-strike-panel-to-study-options-on-sheppard?bn=1
[04:01:37] <frysteev> oopos
[04:01:38] <frysteev> sorry
[04:01:48] <sirhoax> nice autojoin post.
[04:01:50] <sirhoax> ;-q
[04:02:02] <frysteev> copy paste fail
[04:02:21] <frysteev> err I ARE A BOT
[04:02:42] <frysteev> i was meaning to tease Jymmm with http://megacyclelabs.com/?p=198
[04:03:19] <sirhoax> nice.
[04:03:24] <sirhoax> can i get one.
[04:03:26] <sirhoax> yes sir.
[04:05:24] <sirhoax> http://www.flickr.com/photos/megacyclelabs/4597130635/lightbox/
[04:05:42] <sirhoax> wanted to add a small dvdr burning diode.
[04:05:54] <sirhoax> to the list of mods for this cnc. ;o)
[04:06:16] <sirhoax> not sure how it may or may not work.
[04:06:34] <Jymmm> frysteev: you bought that?
[04:07:09] <frysteev> yup
[04:07:32] <Jymmm> how much?
[04:07:44] <frysteev> guess :P
[04:07:45] <Jymmm> and does it work?
[04:07:59] <frysteev> dunno yet
[04:08:24] <Jymmm> it's been 2 months, whats the problem?
[04:09:03] <frysteev> free time!
[04:09:35] <Jymmm> no excuse
[04:10:22] <frysteev> been finishing off a job that paid for it
[04:11:12] <frysteev> :-)
[04:12:55] <frysteev> i will keep ya posted tho
[04:14:07] <Jymmm> $10 USD
[04:14:39] <frysteev> $2500 CDN
[04:14:59] <Jymmm> Is the company that made the laser tube local?
[04:16:29] <frysteev> no
[04:16:38] <Jymmm> Not in Canada?
[04:16:39] <frysteev> its a rofin sinar
[04:16:58] <frysteev> i have all the docs on
[04:17:18] <Jymmm> Fuck the docs, can you get another tube if you need to?
[04:17:46] <frysteev> hey, if he laser is dead, ill just use it as a plasma setup.
[04:18:39] <Jymmm> that's poor thinking. Work on reviewing the laser
[04:18:51] <Jymmm> reviving
[04:19:17] <Jymmm> Is it a sealed tube?
[04:20:09] <frysteev> that is the plan, but i always have a worse case scenario is what im saying
[04:20:29] <Jymmm> ah, ok.
[04:20:46] <Jymmm> frysteev: are there gas tanks with it?
[04:20:52] <Jymmm> of a place for them?
[04:21:04] <Jymmm> compressed gas
[04:21:07] <frysteev> http://www.rofin.com/index.php?id=100&L=1
[04:21:14] <frysteev> gas tanks yes
[04:21:30] <frysteev> dofin sinar dc 015
[04:21:43] <Jymmm> Oh, cool. then you just need to get the assorted gases. Should be 4 I think.
[04:22:07] <frysteev> it has a premix i believe
[04:22:37] <Jymmm> Eh, tha's okey too. You can have that done at any welding supply house
[04:23:06] <frysteev> :-)
[04:23:24] <frysteev> planning to fire up the cpu this weekend and start sorting it out
[04:24:22] <Jymmm> You in Ontario?
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[04:24:31] <frysteev> yup
[04:24:43] <Jymmm> they have an office there
[04:24:54] <Jymmm> http://www.rofin-canada.com/en/
[04:25:02] <frysteev> yup
[04:25:28] <frysteev> the control side is a control techniques fnc5
[04:26:00] <Jymmm> You'll just need to make sure the RF Exciter is working.
[04:26:50] <frysteev> ya
[04:27:05] <Jymmm> Well, GIT ER DONE already!!!
[04:27:50] <frysteev> lol! demanding
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[07:54:59] <Jymmm> cradek: jepler Did you guys come up with a way to estimate "run time" by chance? I'm trying to get a idea on how to accomplish something liek that.
[07:55:55] <Loetmichel_> mornin'
[07:56:09] <Jymmm> hola
[07:56:44] <Loetmichel_> *jawn*
[07:57:36] <Loetmichel_> -15°c this morning says my car... and no garage... i SHOULD wake up 15 minutes earlier in winter, de defrost the car :-(
[07:57:43] <Loetmichel_> -de+to
[07:58:05] <Loetmichel_> was 15 minutes late to work... AGAIN :-(
[07:58:32] <Loetmichel_> s/cara/car windows
[07:58:58] <Jymmm> cant hose it off?
[07:59:46] <Jymmm> at 5F, I'd be more worried about starting the engine than anything else.
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[08:08:46] <Jymmm> I'm lovin this lil propane heater. More so now that I can connect it to 20# tank instead of using 1# tanks.
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[08:15:41] <Loetmichel_> Jymmm: hose it off?
[08:15:44] <Loetmichel_> with water?
[08:16:00] <Loetmichel_> 15 degrees celsius below the freezing pint?
[08:16:03] <Loetmichel_> point
[08:16:20] <seb_kuzminsky> i think jymm meant with isopropyl alcohol
[08:16:44] <Loetmichel_> ah... could do that
[08:17:30] <Loetmichel_> but it will freeze over as soon as i get on the road. been there, done tahtn , nearly got an accident because of it
[08:18:44] <Loetmichel_> (hosed the window with the builtin nozzles and winter window clean-> 50% alcohol... 20 secs free sight, than instant white front windshielt ;-)
[08:18:47] <Loetmichel_> -t+d
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[14:16:22] * JT-Shop ponders the age old question "how do you vacuum the inside of the vacuum?"
[14:16:59] <archivist> some of us have more than one vacuum
[14:17:32] <JT-Shop> I knew there was a trick
[14:17:41] <archivist> actually I have a qty of them /me needs to sell a few
[14:17:49] <JT-Shop> dang I'm wore out from yesterday
[14:18:36] <archivist> you have more "looking after" to do today :)
[14:19:14] <JT-Shop> actually she is supposed to get up and walk often, just no lifting, bending, twisting etc.
[14:19:39] <JT-Shop> but I still fixed her breakfast in the chair
[14:44:48] <archivist> hmm, apt programming book in the post :)
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[15:32:44] <mazafaka> i had been using a tape see-saw several last days. Lots of the blanks had bee' prepared for the work, what a great time!
[15:33:40] <mazafaka> And this day is a holiday, what a great time!
[15:34:51] <mazafaka> And for all the overwork I'll then take from those greedy taking to the needin' (to myself, to my money account), what a great time!
[15:41:23] <cradek> sirhoax: no, I'm in Lincoln NE USA
[15:41:35] <mazafaka> On this holy day, work could had been set my way, and could last the lifetime pretty well, making a great time!
[15:42:14] <cradek> Jymmm: there's an estimate in AXIS, it's in the File/Properties window
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[15:44:35] <jthornton> I must be missing a bunch of posts here as nothing makes sense
[15:44:48] <cradek> archivist: if we see cncjerry again let's ask to see the gcode
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[15:46:51] <cradek> jthornton: I'm responding to old questions, directed at me, yesterday
[15:47:04] <jthornton> ok, had me wondering :)
[15:47:15] <cradek> jthornton: but I also don't understand what mazafaka is talking about, so maybe I missed something there
[15:47:19] <jthornton> it has happened to me before
[15:47:33] <jthornton> I don't understand either
[15:47:45] <mazafaka> something like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc2koTGsKAQ
[15:48:58] <mazafaka> Damn drilling machine makes the gears sound in my had even after the work, makes it! Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha!
[15:50:03] <mazafaka> I think it's the oil pump is so much noisy.
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[17:57:10] <Loetmichel_> *bah! what a MESS!* note to self: cutting more than 0,2mm will stop the spindle of the C0. Next time: not sawing the square stock with 5mm plus material. :-( -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12794
[17:58:32] <Jymmm> not sawing???
[17:58:36] <Jymmm> not miling?
[18:01:10] <Jymmm> I need a diode for my solar panel to prevent from draining the battery ay night. I was going to use a 1N4001, but someone said to use something else because it has a lower Vfwd, anyone know what that might be?
[18:02:35] <mazafaka> Why do one need a micro lathe? For the items of micro world maybe?
[18:03:11] <Jymmm> mazafaka: Look ay your cellphone =)
[18:03:14] <Jymmm> at
[18:03:42] <mazafaka> for what?
[18:04:48] <Jymmm> mazafaka: You live in a micro world (your cellphone) and just don't know it yet =)
[18:05:52] <mazafaka> I'm big enough!!! And besides I eat macro-apples from a huge tree!
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[18:08:43] <archivist> Jymmm, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schottky_diode
[18:09:43] <sirhoax> anyone use cambam ?
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[18:16:47] <Gromits> Anyone know where there are instructions for installing linuxcnc from a usb flashdrive rather than a liveCD?
[18:17:56] <mazafaka> there's something in the linuxcnc how-to
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[18:21:45] <Gromits> hmm, not finding it. I see instructions on installing it with a livecd to run on a usb flashdrive, but not how to install from a flashdrive...
[18:26:25] <Jymmm> archivist: thanks
[18:30:19] <Gromits> wikipedia comes through.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Live_USB_creator
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[18:32:18] <pcw_home> Jymmm you can use a MOSFET if you want ~0 drop (drive gate with tiny 5V solar panel)
[18:33:26] <sirhoax> or make a minder circuit.
[18:33:38] <sirhoax> cuts the circuit on no light condition.
[18:34:12] <sirhoax> have some small VW trickle charge battery keeper panels here.
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[18:34:24] <sirhoax> been meaning to use them for small applications.
[18:36:09] <sirhoax> http://tinyurl.com/8xqpln5
[18:36:25] <tom3p> archivist, is the apt book by Kral? i found deal at Powells, like 30$ and great condition
[18:38:16] <tom3p> or where the 360 came from in Apt360 :) http://books.google.com/books?id=DafkAAAAMAAJ&source=gbs_similarbooks
[18:39:52] <archivist> tom3p, yes thats the one I think mine is on its way costing me a similay amount £20
[18:41:43] <tom3p> good on you! its a great book too
[18:43:02] <archivist> I couldnt find a cheap one in the uk so waiting for shipping from US
[18:45:04] <tom3p> i was surprised i couldnt dig one up thru the library networks in Chicago, even tried while in NYC. but good, i hope the best for the Apt crew
[18:47:32] <archivist> at least the main dev has kept watching irc even if busy doing something else
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[18:50:06] <Jymmm> pcw_home: My Main intension is to build it into the connector and abuse proof it (epoxy encapsulation)
[18:53:44] <Jymmm> I eventually need to look at battery charging chips (LiPo, LiFePo, Ni-Cad, Ni-MH, etc) one of these days.
[18:58:23] <Jymmm> http://www.powerwerx.com/digital-meters/doc-wattson-meter-dc-inline.html
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[19:01:43] <awallin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMNalKC2Rqc
[19:03:42] <cradek> awesome
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[19:06:17] <awallin> similar-ish "wavefront-propagation" ideas are used in many "HSM" pocketing strategies. I'll try to start from something simple first..
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[19:22:43] <mrsun_> awallin, what is that? :)
[19:25:38] <Loetmichel_> so, turning done, now some threaded holes and then the rest of the spindle parts... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12797
[19:26:23] <clytle374> Jymmm, I think you can get that same meter for rc use much cheaper
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[19:26:58] <clytle374> I've got a $20 one that looks exactly like it
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[19:28:29] <clytle374> Jymmm, http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10080
[19:33:18] <mrsun_> awallin, do you have any documentation on how to use your opencamlib? :)
[19:40:40] <sirhoax> these also work well for solar applications http://tinyurl.com/7qgkne2
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[19:41:45] <sirhoax> you could have the display and shunt separate, remote monitor.
[19:41:50] <sirhoax> not sure how far you can extend it.
[19:42:24] <Jymmm> It's the shunt that makes the differnce there.
[19:42:50] <Jymmm> And realy wouldn't want to have a seperate PS for a meter/guage
[19:44:52] <Jymmm> Hubba hubba http://pinterest.com/pin/250160954271120923/
[19:45:16] <clytle374> The higher end one might have a better shunt. The cheap one can be powered either way
[19:47:06] <sirhoax> can make your own shunt.
[19:47:15] <sirhoax> just need to get 1mV per A
[19:47:22] <sirhoax> and a small meter.
[19:47:33] <Jymmm> I like the hobby one, can be plugged in-line as needed or removed. I use power pole connectors for everything
[19:47:53] <clytle374> I used a piece of wire the right length before I got the meter
[19:48:23] <Jymmm> I have shitloads of Ni-Chrome around here too.
[19:48:38] <sirhoax> yea you just get 12gauge wire. and a constant amperage source at 1amp. and adjust the length until you get the right mV drop on the wire.
[19:48:53] <sirhoax> free shunt ;-)
[19:49:41] <clytle374> I got the meter since flaming RC helies aren't much fun
[19:49:58] <Jymmm> I should have bought those 0.1Ohm 100W 1% resistors when I saw them
[19:52:33] <clytle374> Yep, they would be in the box with the Tesla capacitors I couldn't pass up ;)
[19:56:04] <sirhoax> http://www.cambam.info/doc/plus/tutorials/Drilling.htm
[19:56:16] <sirhoax> neato'
[19:57:33] <Jymmm> 1001 Things to do with a drill press?
[19:58:32] <sirhoax> yup. just another thing to add to the list of many things to try w/a cnc ;-)
[19:58:43] <Jymmm> does look pretty good though
[20:00:52] <tom3p> on the mailing list theres a longish thread about fp & modern cpu's
[20:00:54] <tom3p> isnt the idea really that realtime threads dont use fp? that fp is done in user space comps?
[20:02:01] <cradek> no
[20:02:28] <cradek> fp is optional in realtime threads
[20:02:52] <cradek> you can run the thread faster if you don't need fp
[20:04:28] <tom3p> ah! great. i had that all wrong & wrote a bazillion integer only comp version of existing ones ( tho now its true their thread could be faster )
[20:04:31] <tom3p> thx
[20:05:43] <mazafaka> i like to drill with 315 rpm and 0.060 mm as a feed rate per the revolution. this way, the chip breaks easily and the drill bit also works like an end mill bit.
[20:06:33] <mazafaka> I have asked the employer for a second drilling machine because I am idling while the first machine drills the metal.
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[20:11:00] <mazafaka> 8 or 12 holes in 240 items or so, it makes a huge work. Each time you fix a new pocket of details (e.g. about 4 or 5 in the column) you have to clean the table out of the chips and sharp tiny chip produced by the center of the drill bit.
[20:12:21] <mazafaka> there's ice in the coolant sometimes. in -30 or so Celsius, it's very cold in the shop.
[20:15:11] <tom3p> get a 2nd machine that can drill upside down ( when we had production edm we mounted work on ram and tools on table... dirt falls down :)
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[20:29:10] <mazafaka> yeah. this way, the fastest drilling is on the lathe, because the chip goes down ('pouring off')
[20:29:24] <clytle374> I've got precise running the 2.6.38 kernel. Trying rtai as soon as I figure out what weird option Ubuntu has in the kernel that kept root being read only
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[21:20:03] <cstop> Question about stepper indexing. Is there a method that addresses errors between the division of a full circle and the logical step increments determined by motor steps per rev and gear ratio?
[21:20:39] <cstop> The example would be in gear cutting. Will all the errors present themselves on the last tooth? Hypothetical
[21:20:41] <cradek> to some extent, microstepping smooths that
[21:20:54] <cradek> oh wait, maybe you're asking about something else
[21:21:04] <archivist> cstop, the errors will be distributed
[21:21:21] <cradek> yes you always place the motor at the closest possible position to the desired one
[21:21:25] <cstop> is that a function of G-code?
[21:21:45] <cradek> no, it's something you don't need to worry about when writing gcode
[21:22:01] <cradek> just program your desired positions, whether in inches/mm/degrees
[21:22:01] <archivist> the machine controller, just be as accurate as you can
[21:22:44] <archivist> cstop, make sure your resolution is high enough that your errors are small enough
[21:22:52] <cstop> as in Degrees minutes seconds or as accurate as 200 divisions of 360 degrees?
[21:23:14] <cradek> you would never have a rotary axis turned directly by a stepper motor
[21:23:23] <cstop> I can not change the resolution or can I?
[21:23:24] <cradek> there is a worm gear, just like you have threads on a leadscrew
[21:23:27] <archivist> cstop, for gear cutting I have worm division after the stepper
[21:23:42] <cstop> yes, 50:1
[21:23:51] <cstop> sorry, 40:1
[21:23:58] <archivist> better rotaries are 90-1
[21:24:05] <cstop> it's a regular dividing head
[21:24:19] <archivist> some cheap ones are 90:1
[21:24:25] <archivist> Vertex
[21:24:50] <cradek> so you'd get 8000 steps per revolution, or resolution of 1/22.x degree. but your drives will probably at least half-step, giving twice that
[21:24:57] <cstop> This is an oldie but goodie ;-)
[21:25:28] <cradek> but the important part is that the errors don't accumulate
[21:25:55] <cstop> cradek what part distrubutes the errors?
[21:25:58] <archivist> cstop, what I have measured with the lower division ratio rotaries are internal gearing error (cocked up some gears that way)
[21:26:33] <JT-Shop> is there a way to prevent jogging until an axis is homed?
[21:26:40] <archivist> you get a sawtooth error distribution
[21:28:12] <archivist> cstop, to test once you get going make a high count gear and then use a vernier over a set number of teeth and go all the way round
[21:28:53] <cstop> can you suggest the g-code that would divide a circle into 200 equal parts?
[21:29:27] <cstop> graduating dials ;-)
[21:29:52] <archivist> use an o code subroutine
[21:29:55] <JT-Shop> G0 A1.8
[21:30:58] <cstop> repetitions of 1.8 degree steps results in all the error shown on the final division...that does not work :-(
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[21:32:00] <cstop> I've considered A91.8 and 181.8, but have not proven that useful. hence the question
[21:32:23] <mrsun_> how to measure the thickness of doublesided tape. ..
[21:32:28] <mrsun_> will not do it with calipers ;P
[21:32:36] <mrsun_> that thing is superstrong =)
[21:32:40] <JT-Shop> 360/200=1.8
[21:32:44] <cstop> micrometer on a piece of scrap
[21:33:07] <mrsun_> cstop, cant measure it without the glue being exposed? :P
[21:33:12] <mrsun_> ofc i could dust it with parting powder
[21:34:13] <cstop> JT-shop that is true 360/200 is 1.8 but the stepper gearing does not always land on an even step in many situations. This is not direct drive.
[21:34:18] <archivist> cstop, that basic for a gear (you need to modify) http://www.archivist.info/cnc/standard_clock_n_teeth.ngc
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[21:40:43] <JT-Shop> you asked for the G code that would divide a circle into 200 parts... is that not the problem?
[21:43:11] <Jymmm> NOT FOR THE GINSU 2000!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4q7GCuWFsSs
[21:44:07] <archivist> cstop, it is a digital system (all digital systems have error due to the resolution) it is probable that your rotary will be a larger error term than the digital division
[21:44:26] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: BUT WAIT! There's more!!!
[21:45:33] <cradek> this is wrong: repetitions of 1.8 degree steps results in all the error shown on the final division...that does not work
[21:46:10] <Jymmm> cradek: overlap?
[21:46:17] <cradek> either you have a misunderstanding of what's going on and have not tried it, or you need to explain your observations when you tried it
[21:46:26] <archivist> with half step you will be to 1 part in 8000 approx all the way round, it does not accumulate the errors
[21:47:36] <Jymmm> Epiphany... In more than 20 years the phrase "But wait, there's more..." is still used even though cultures have changed.
[21:49:26] <cstop> thanks I'll read a bit, Ahh that subroutine takes care of my question I believe.
[21:49:57] <cstop> Ahh. The subroutine does the work! great
[21:50:38] <archivist> yup just edit the numbers where needed, you will see what they effect
[21:52:18] <archivist> you will likely also need to adjust the F values to suit your machine and materials
[21:52:51] <cstop> feeds are like that
[21:54:36] <cstop> so if the angle and tooth count coincide to equal a full circle, the G0 A0 after the sub "should result in no movement at all.
[21:54:41] <cstop> True?
[21:55:17] <cstop> affirmation of error compensation
[21:55:42] <archivist> no it will rotate back to 0 from 360
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[21:56:50] * archivist would like a move to nearest 0 on a rotating axis after n turns
[21:57:19] <cstop> Oh, Certainly there is something special about continuation of rotation....
[21:57:50] <archivist> see wrapped rotary which may be ok for some cases
[21:58:13] <cstop> I do not require such moves at present
[21:58:41] <archivist> it bites you if making worms
[21:59:36] <cstop> for worm gears, would not slaving two axis be a suitable approach?
[22:00:06] <cradek> you can't do that in gcode, but you can easily move multiple axes together
[22:00:14] <cstop> So much of one results in so much of the other
[22:00:42] <archivist> G1 F.05 x-.063 Y[0-#20] Z[0-#5] A[0-#<rotation_angle>] (rotate blank 7 turns)
[22:01:06] <archivist> but the unwind is too damned slow
[22:01:58] <syyl_> hmmm
[22:02:00] <syyl_> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/wzw_spindel10.jpg
[22:02:03] <syyl_> toolchanger ;)
[22:02:08] <syyl_> looks a bit...
[22:02:11] <syyl_> strange ;)
[22:02:22] <syyl_> dont know if thats the right concept...
[22:02:27] <archivist> microscope
[22:03:04] <archivist> other tooling can hit the work
[22:03:35] <syyl_> jep
[22:03:42] <syyl_> hmm
[22:04:10] <archivist> and there is little space to insert a loose tool into the collet
[22:04:39] <archivist> so they stick out even more
[22:04:45] <mrsun_> haha archivist your machine is just thrown together of different kind of junk ? :)
[22:04:57] <syyl_> hmm
[22:05:01] <syyl_> many points against it
[22:05:02] <archivist> mrsun_, you just worked it out :)
[22:05:07] <syyl_> maybe..
[22:05:14] <syyl_> back to the sketching board ;)
[22:05:26] <archivist> mrsun_, genuine fugly
[22:05:43] <mrsun_> looks like something i wouldnt even throw at the cats
[22:05:43] <mrsun_> :P�
[22:05:58] <archivist> syyl_, look at tormach tooling
[22:06:14] <syyl_> ah right, they have a toolchanger now?
[22:06:45] <archivist> no but the register is nice
[22:07:05] <archivist> you just need a rack to hold the tools
[22:08:08] <archivist> syyl_, are you intending to use standard tooling with 6mm shanks
[22:08:12] <syyl_> yes
[22:08:20] <syyl_> correct
[22:08:33] <archivist> hmm setting depth is a problem
[22:08:47] <syyl_> they will have a collar ring
[22:08:49] <mrsun_> archivist, but i guess, as long as it does the job =)
[22:09:01] <archivist> ah ok
[22:09:21] <syyl_> and after each change, it will go for a toollenghtprobe
[22:09:30] <syyl_> if the collar by itself is not accurate enough
[22:09:43] <syyl_> but, on our datron machines, that works fine
[22:09:52] <archivist> mrsun_, it was cutting gears before the z and x had steppers fitted
[22:09:54] <syyl_> under 1/100mm tolerance when changing tools...
[22:11:02] <archivist> at the moment I cannot imagine a method to set height with gear cutters
[22:11:27] <syyl_> optical?
[22:11:33] <syyl_> with a microscope?
[22:12:46] <archivist> needs measuring all the way round to take errors into account, shadow , video capture and software I think
[22:13:05] <mrsun_> archivist, setting the center point of the blank or what? :)
[22:13:50] <archivist> needs flank width at cutting depth depending on cut width one needs
[22:14:12] <archivist> and centre line and diameter
[22:15:10] <archivist> current method is microscope and make one see if its ok adjust, rinse repeat
[22:17:07] <archivist> reason is cycloidal clock teeth come to a point
[22:20:43] <tom3p> syyl that idea is common on 'milldrills' like fanuc/brother. here a diy interpretation http://home.insightbb.com/~joevicar3/Automatic_Tool_Changer_Plans.htm
[22:21:57] <tom3p> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ZcKoUSlqI
[22:23:31] <tom3p> tax time :)
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[22:23:45] <Jymmm> http://i54.tinypic.com/14cco4k.jpg
[22:33:13] <sirhoax> you know your playing her cd-right now. ;-)
[22:33:31] <sirhoax> heh.
[22:34:23] <sirhoax> cornelius!
[22:34:33] * sirhoax snickers
[22:36:16] <syyl_> oh
[22:36:24] <syyl_> thats a good link, tom3p
[22:36:27] <syyl_> mh
[22:36:29] <syyl_> he left
[22:36:30] <syyl_> :(
[22:37:44] <sirhoax> damn hardware stores around here only sell 1/8" stock
[22:38:48] <sirhoax> for flat stock aluminum. atleast.
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[22:49:07] <JT-Shop> and you can bet it is not 6061 but rather architectural aluminum... gummy soft junk
[22:49:47] <alex4nder-> yes
[22:49:52] <alex4nder-> so damn gummy
[22:51:33] <sirhoax> maybe worth talking with a scrap yard.
[22:52:04] <sirhoax> but i've seen them with signs saying, we don't sell.
[22:52:17] <sirhoax> thought it was odd. ;-q
[22:52:37] <sirhoax> but i guess they all aren't like that.
[22:52:40] <alex4nder-> do you live in alaska?
[22:53:03] <sirhoax> please translate.
[22:53:34] <JT-Shop> lol
[22:54:03] <alex4nder-> sirhoax: just buy some aluminum stock from a local metal supplier, or online.
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[22:54:45] <sirhoax> k.
[22:54:55] <sirhoax> to each his own.
[22:55:07] <alex4nder-> oh.
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[22:56:01] <sirhoax> they charge a lot over here. for 2x2 square stock. 3/8 wall steal.
[22:56:21] <sirhoax> so can only imagine aluminum prices.
[22:56:44] <alex4nder-> you could start smelting your own, using recycled aluminum cans.
[22:56:58] <sirhoax> heh. microwave forged.
[22:57:15] <sirhoax> need to crush it first.
[22:57:31] <sirhoax> into maybe a cube?
[22:57:39] <sirhoax> hydraulic. if anything.
[22:58:33] <sirhoax> my space is limited. just need scrap. for small test runs.
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