#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-02-16

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[00:54:27] <Thetawaves> what can i do to reduce latency? using the 10.4 livecd
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[01:02:18] <Thetawaves> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Latency-Test my hardware gets the same numbers listed there
[01:02:25] <Thetawaves> does this mean it can not be improved
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[01:23:35] <skunkworks_> what does that mean? what latency?
[01:24:21] <Thetawaves> length of time between a timer interrupt and the interrupt service routing being run
[01:25:00] <skunkworks_> what are the numbers?
[01:26:00] <skunkworks_> * what are you getting for latency numbers and what is your system?
[01:26:18] <Thetawaves> 39099 and 28910
[01:26:31] <Thetawaves> Intel Core2Duo E6550 2.3GHz
[01:27:52] <Thetawaves> actually that isn't right
[01:28:51] <Thetawaves> yes it is
[01:28:52] <skunkworks_> have you disabled hyperthreading in the bios?
[01:29:04] <Thetawaves> i'll do that now
[01:29:30] <skunkworks_> that usually helps
[01:30:55] <pfred1> can't you dedicate one core to the RT process?
[01:31:05] <pfred1> there is some grub command
[01:32:34] <pfred1> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browse&diff=1&id=The_Isolcpus_Boot_Parameter_And_GRUB2
[01:32:45] <Thetawaves> i don't appear to have hyperthreading
[01:32:59] <Thetawaves> core multiprocessing to disable 1 core is there
[01:34:04] <pfred1> Thetawaves if it were me I'd try to dedicate one core to EMC
[01:34:32] <pfred1> Thetawaves this isn't a laptop you are trying to use is it?
[01:34:39] <Thetawaves> no
[01:34:43] <pfred1> good
[01:34:46] <Thetawaves> thinkpad m57
[01:35:27] <Thetawaves> i wonder if disabling virtualization will do anything
[01:35:47] <pfred1> Thetawaves I don't want to make yo ufeel bad or anything but I'm getting 18000ns out of a 1 GHz P3 here
[01:35:59] <Thetawaves> hahaha yeah
[01:36:19] <Thetawaves> old hardware seems to do well as reported on that latency test
[01:36:24] <Thetawaves> page
[01:36:34] <pfred1> try doing that "isolcpus=1" thing
[01:36:48] <Thetawaves> ok
[01:37:03] <skunkworks_> when you look at the system-> administration -> system monitor -> resources.. - how many processors show up?
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[01:37:14] <Thetawaves> 2
[01:37:21] <Thetawaves> as reported by /proc/cpuinfo
[01:37:37] <pfred1> are they throttled?
[01:37:47] <skunkworks_> ok - then I don't think you are hyperthreading
[01:37:51] <Thetawaves> there was some options for that in the bios
[01:37:56] * pfred1 is havins some issues about that with his i3
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[01:39:00] <Thetawaves> give me a second, i want to run a test before i try the isolcpus=1
[01:39:15] <Thetawaves> how do i get to grub console from the livecd?
[01:39:28] <pfred1> I have a core2 laptop and I have to say I'm not terribly impressed with the performance I've seen out of it but I never did EMC with it
[01:39:49] <Thetawaves> weird... i don't need anything faster than the core 2 duo
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[01:43:18] <pfred1> after reading that page about isolcpus I only hate grub2 worse
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[01:46:36] <Thetawaves> lol lemme guess
[01:46:46] <Thetawaves> you can not enter these options on the live cd
[01:47:18] <pfred1> I never fooled with the live CD
[01:47:30] * pfred1 doesn't even run LinuxCNC's image
[01:48:14] <Thetawaves> i'm running 11.10 with a custom kernel and rtai doesn't appear to have been updated yet
[01:48:16] <pfred1> I laid up a custom system of Debian Lenny and did the RTAI kernel and EMC on it
[01:48:21] <Thetawaves> so that idea was dead in the water
[01:49:24] <pfred1> was a pain but now that it is done I'm happy with it
[01:50:06] <pfred1> Thetawaves a while back the RAm in that machine died and I was running X with 22MB good RAM I thought it was a might bit sluggish ...
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[01:51:17] <Thetawaves> lol
[01:51:19] <Thetawaves> nice!
[01:51:39] <pfred1> yeah it'll idle in X using 32MB RAM so I was swapping some
[01:51:43] <Thetawaves> disabling cpu power management brought it down to 31790 and 30858
[01:51:56] <Thetawaves> the first number is 10us better
[01:52:03] <Jymmm> only 11000+ to go
[01:52:16] <pfred1> hey JymmmJymmm
[01:52:38] <pfred1> Jymmm you see my video?
[01:52:41] <Jymmm> howdy
[01:52:48] <Jymmm> nope
[01:53:07] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPKaHLzXes
[01:53:33] <pfred1> stepconf!
[01:54:09] <pfred1> I jacked up the microstepping and it runs even better but no new video of that
[01:54:27] <pfred1> when i get the whole axis done I'mm make something
[01:54:31] <Jymmm> pfred1: very cool!!! =)
[01:54:51] <pfred1> yeah its pretty funny that is just the bearing support was a pain
[01:55:07] <pfred1> I need to screw it into the slide now
[01:57:59] <pfred1> Thetawaves if all else fails this is how I did it http://pastebin.com/cYYqyKPX
[01:58:09] <pfred1> only about 100 or so commands :)
[02:04:31] <Thetawaves> thanks
[02:05:31] <Thetawaves> isolcpus=1 made it worse :(
[02:05:38] <pfred1> doh!
[02:05:59] <pfred1> did you try isolcpus=0 ?
[02:06:19] <Thetawaves> i will now
[02:06:30] <pfred1> what the hey never know
[02:06:54] <pfred1> I said it before and I'll say it again core2s don't impress me
[02:07:16] <pfred1> I'd like to see what my i3 can do with emc though
[02:07:30] <pfred1> that sucker flies
[02:08:10] <Thetawaves> i wonder how this old p4 would do
[02:08:14] <pfred1> though when i buy a system for emc I'm getitng an atom
[02:08:24] <Thetawaves> i saw those numbers
[02:08:27] <Thetawaves> !!!!
[02:08:32] <pfred1> yeah the atoms are hawt
[02:09:04] <Valen> and cheap
[02:09:12] <Valen> I'd like a quad core atom
[02:09:18] <pfred1> well not after yo uget done building one they're not that cheap
[02:09:27] <Valen> 3 cores for UI and one for realtime
[02:09:51] <Valen> $100 for motherboard + cpu is cheap compared to ~$200 for seperate components
[02:09:56] <pfred1> the bare system is like $130 still need everything but CPU mobo and PSU
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[02:10:49] <pfred1> need RAM and HDD or some storage
[02:11:13] <pfred1> RAM is cheap though today
[02:11:49] <pfred1> seems some of the PSUs the bare bones atoms ship with leave a bit to be desired to me too
[02:12:16] <pfred1> it is them hidden costs that are a killer
[02:16:07] <Valen> i have all that crap floating around my house so i don't see it lol
[02:16:21] <Valen> i have 4x hdds
[02:16:24] <Valen> 1x laptop hdd
[02:16:29] <Valen> and a sdd on my desk now
[02:16:35] <Valen> all of them are "good" too
[02:19:30] <pfred1> well I don't I don't have any spare computer parts worth a damn anymore
[02:19:47] <pfred1> I have 4 running computers right now though
[02:27:24] <Thetawaves> guess i have to find a new computer
[02:28:22] <Thetawaves> looks like the pentium 4s do well
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[04:08:20] <Kirk_Wallace> Hello. I'm trying to get a user comp working: http://wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/sj200mbbasic/sj200mbbasic.comp
[04:10:01] <Kirk_Wallace> I've added the option userspace and user_loop but it doesn't seem to run. FOR_ALL_INSTS seems to be an issue, but I don't know what this is.
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[04:36:10] <sirhoax> http://i.imgur.com/QUThm.png
[04:36:20] <sirhoax> -----------------------^
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[06:59:55] <The_Ball> ah, finally, irssi on the cnc machine
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[09:19:39] <Loetmichel_> mornin'
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[13:14:41] <quitte> hi. i finally have what i think are the necessary parts. a bunch of stepper motors h-bridges and a uC. can someone recommend further reading for how to make the pc interface?
[13:15:40] <Tom_itx> to use linuxcnc with?
[13:15:44] <Tom_itx> get a mesa card
[13:16:23] <quitte> i want to make the interface my semester project.
[13:16:52] <Tom_itx> you could also ask in #reprap
[13:17:06] <Tom_itx> i think they use �C to control their steppers
[13:17:08] <quitte> isn't that kind of the opposite?
[13:17:22] <Tom_itx> it's all motor control
[13:17:56] <quitte> sure but i'd prefer to make it in a way that is compatible with a emc driver.
[13:18:24] <Tom_itx> read up on the arduino stuff
[13:18:32] <Tom_itx> that's about all i can tell you
[13:19:00] <Tom_itx> they've attached them for various purposes i think
[13:19:41] <quitte> ok. will ask #reprap
[13:19:48] <quitte> thanks
[13:20:20] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure what you'd need to be compatible with linuxcnc
[13:21:03] <quitte> do you know of any existing controllers with a serial interface?
[13:21:19] <jthornton> Mesa
[13:21:37] <quitte> okay. i'll have a look at what that is
[13:21:44] <Tom_itx> they offload the work from the pc though
[13:21:55] <Tom_itx> using an fpga etc
[13:22:02] <jthornton> quitte: what are you trying to do?
[13:23:09] <quitte> jthornton: i have a proxxon mf-70 3 axis mill. and the hardware already mentioned. by the end of the semester i want to at least be able to mill pcbs
[13:24:09] <Tom_itx> i'd use your steppers and drivers and get a mesa card to control them
[13:24:10] <jthornton> what is a uC?
[13:24:16] <Tom_itx> microcontroller
[13:24:23] <Tom_itx> like an avr pic etc
[13:24:33] <jthornton> ah ok
[13:25:07] <jthornton> isn't a h bridge for a servo motor?
[13:25:28] <Tom_itx> it takes 2 full hbridges for a stepper
[13:25:58] <Tom_itx> or one for a normal motor
[13:26:19] <Tom_itx> all they do is drive the motor coils
[13:26:42] <Tom_itx> however many you happen to have
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[13:27:03] <Loetmichel> ... or thre halfbridges fpr e ac 3phase
[13:27:06] <jthornton> ok, just reading up on them a bit
[13:27:12] <Loetmichel> three
[13:27:22] <Loetmichel> just to confuse you even more;-)
[13:27:26] <Tom_itx> halfbridges won't allow reverse
[13:27:37] <Loetmichel> wrong
[13:27:50] <Tom_itx> generally
[13:27:55] <Loetmichel> for a ac motor they do
[13:27:59] <Loetmichel> three of them
[13:28:06] <Tom_itx> if i were making a dc motor i'd only get reverse
[13:28:20] <Loetmichel> 'cause you are creating a rotating magnetic field
[13:28:42] <Tom_itx> right, like a hdd servo motor
[13:29:25] <Loetmichel> and since 3 halfbridges make one and a half full bridges there are model ESCs out therte which can be switched from bruishless to brushed drive
[13:30:05] <Loetmichel> just buy changing the controller sofware
[13:30:37] <Loetmichel> btdt ;-)
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[15:29:38] <awallin_> so I've posted a plea for help on cutsim on the list.... let's see what happens..
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[15:40:36] <craynerd> Hello, is anyone familiar with the TB6560 3 axis drivers...el cheapo ones?
[15:40:46] <Loetmichel> yes
[15:40:56] <Loetmichel> repaired some lately ;-)
[15:41:02] <craynerd> The manual is totally confusing me!
[15:41:17] <Loetmichel> which manual?
[15:41:20] <craynerd> please bear in mind that I`m a cnc noob anyway so I`m easily confused
[15:41:32] <craynerd> well the sheet that came with the driver
[15:41:42] <Loetmichel> no, i meant: which one? i never got one ;-)
[15:41:52] <craynerd> ohhh!
[15:42:13] <Loetmichel> can you scan it and put it on webspace somewhere?
[15:42:19] <Loetmichel> so i can assist you?
[15:42:32] <craynerd> not right now as I have no scanner here...sorry!
[15:42:59] <Loetmichel> most of the standard china TB6560 boards are self-explaining. though
[15:43:12] <craynerd> I expect they are if you know what you are doing!!
[15:43:13] <Loetmichel> maybe a cell with a decent camera?
[15:43:38] <Loetmichel> so we are talking about the same board?
[15:43:49] <craynerd> http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/showthread.php/1373-eBay-TB6560-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Boards/page5
[15:43:51] <craynerd> this board...
[15:45:12] <Loetmichel> there is no photo
[15:45:29] <Loetmichel> i need to know which port ais where
[15:45:33] <Loetmichel> -a
[15:45:38] <Loetmichel> to help you
[15:45:45] <Loetmichel> at YOUR board
[15:45:54] <Loetmichel> what is the problem enyway?
[15:45:57] <Loetmichel> any
[15:46:34] <craynerd> http://cdn103.iofferphoto.com/img3/item/482/649/449/ykRC.jpg
[15:46:48] <Loetmichel> ohoh, boss is standing behind me... write your question, i will lokk in a few minutes...
[15:47:13] <craynerd> OK, basically, I`m confused about the voltage in... where it goes and what voltage I should even be feeding it!
[15:47:46] <craynerd> to the far side of the green connectors, the outermost pin is labeled 12/36v
[15:48:06] <craynerd> does my driver limit voltage to the stepper motor or do I need to control that?
[15:51:10] <craynerd> haha... found it online... here is the document I have: http://www.savebase.com/infobase/downloads/TB6560/TB6560_4Axis_Driver.doc
[15:51:29] <craynerd> but it is constantly going on about Mach3 and of course, I want to use emc2
[15:51:35] <Loetmichel> boss gone
[15:51:41] <craynerd> I`m also nipping out for 10 minutes.. brb sorry!
[15:52:35] <craynerd> I`m really sorry
[15:52:41] <Loetmichel> np
[15:52:46] <craynerd> my document is identical to that, only mine is the 3 axis!
[15:52:49] <craynerd> looks the same!
[15:52:55] <craynerd> right, brb
[15:54:38] <Loetmichel> ok, outermost pin is minimum 12V, maximum 36 V... i recoomend 30V to 32V... its the best compromize between speed and distance to Driver explosion voltage
[15:55:03] <Loetmichel> the nesx pin ist GND of the PSU
[15:56:08] <Loetmichel> and yes, the driver board controls the voltage to the steppers (sort of, more like something with the same effect to the motors)
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[15:56:47] <Loetmichel> so translate the pins and ports to mach23 ;-)
[15:57:05] <Loetmichel> erm FROM mach3 to linuxCNC i wanted to say
[15:57:12] <Loetmichel> thats the only point
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[15:58:21] <Loetmichel> and i have testet that the tb6560 need relatively long pin pulses. so set the stepconf wizard to about the double to triple timing of a L297/l298
[16:15:26] <Loetmichel> <-oinmg home, 20 minutes
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[16:42:00] <Jymmm> <-- going crazy in 20m.
[16:42:13] <Jymmm> (short drive too)
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[17:02:04] <craynerd> ok
[17:02:11] <craynerd> I`m back..anyone still about?
[17:02:40] <craynerd> got all the above. Just to test, what is the minium voltage I could supply just to test each axis at once?
[17:02:41] <cncbasher> craynerd > yes
[17:03:04] <cncbasher> what voltage do you have available
[17:03:15] <craynerd> or more importantly, I have a power supply that is variable... but it is limited to 2A max current
[17:03:29] <craynerd> will that be OK for one motor with no load?
[17:03:47] <cncbasher> at what voltage ?
[17:04:17] <craynerd> think it goes upto 18v
[17:04:26] <cncbasher> the steppers are current limited by the 6560 so voltage will not matter
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[17:05:22] <cncbasher> the voltage will give you the speed of the motor , so if anything the stepper motors will run slower
[17:05:27] <craynerd> OK
[17:05:46] <craynerd> so for testing sake, I could use my variable supply set to 18v.
[17:06:06] <cncbasher> so long as you do not go over 36v you will be fine
[17:06:11] <craynerd> ok
[17:06:33] <craynerd> just a pitty the documents I have a geared up to running it on mach3 and not linuxcnc
[17:06:55] <cncbasher> the current limit settings are the red dip switch blocks
[17:07:01] <cncbasher> on the pcb
[17:07:08] <craynerd> blue?
[17:07:17] <cncbasher> ha yes in your case
[17:07:18] <craynerd> don`t see any red ones
[17:07:22] <craynerd> :D
[17:08:08] <cncbasher> their are a few threads on the forum
[17:08:26] <cncbasher> for the tb6560 type boards
[17:09:03] <craynerd> ok, just one last one
[17:09:15] <craynerd> for each axis, dip switches 1 and 2 set the current
[17:09:25] <craynerd> as 100%, 75%, 50% or 25%
[17:09:41] <craynerd> and this is a percentage of...max current?
[17:10:10] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:10:28] <cncbasher> ok they should be fine as they are in that case
[17:10:41] <craynerd> no sorry
[17:10:52] <craynerd> I don`t think I was clear...they are my options
[17:11:15] <cncbasher> just leave as default for now
[17:11:18] <Loetmichel> 2A is a BIT on the light side
[17:11:25] <Loetmichel> i thried
[17:11:28] <Loetmichel> tried
[17:11:48] <craynerd> I`m still not clear what this is a percentage of?
[17:11:52] <craynerd> what current?
[17:11:58] <craynerd> max motor current?
[17:12:06] <craynerd> max current that the driver can provide?
[17:12:10] <cncbasher> yes
[17:12:30] <cncbasher> but your supplying very low current in the first place
[17:12:40] <craynerd> I see...
[17:12:42] <Loetmichel> i had to switch the (4 axis) board to the lowes current on a 32V 2A smps and even then it needed 2 -3 trys to start wirhout going in overcurrent protect
[17:12:56] <craynerd> so this would be more of a concern if my power supply COULD draw more current
[17:13:12] <cncbasher> so no point in changing at the moment
[17:13:17] <cncbasher> yes correct
[17:13:19] <craynerd> ahh! i see..
[17:13:55] <cncbasher> remember 2a is low , so nowhere near optimum ,
[17:13:57] <craynerd> well, I think it is time to give this a bash and see what happens :D
[17:14:52] <cncbasher> you should get at least some movement , but nothing remotely near usefull of course
[17:18:00] <mazafaka> What a weird thing. Despite what I do, my concrete garage doesn't become more big. It's size is somewhat constant rather than mind-pleasing.
[17:18:12] <Loetmichel> cncbasher: that is, IF his PSU isnt going into overcurrent at startup
[17:18:32] <craynerd> I do have an 18v laptop charger that I could use?
[17:18:33] <cncbasher> yes good point
[17:18:47] <Loetmichel> craynerd_ that would do
[17:18:49] <cncbasher> that would be better
[17:18:53] <Loetmichel> if it has more amperes
[17:19:05] <Loetmichel> at least four
[17:19:10] <Loetmichel> if possible
[17:19:26] <Loetmichel> and double/triple check the polarity
[17:19:50] <craynerd> sorry, but I have a quick linux q here
[17:20:21] <Loetmichel> otherwise this will happen: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12554
[17:21:18] <craynerd> I`m using a different computer to run this from, one with a parallel port. I`ve downloaded the ubuntu with linuxcnc iso. I want to make a boot USB stick but using Universal USB installer, when I select Ubuntu 10.04 it won`t see the iso file... any thoughts?
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[17:21:46] <Loetmichel> no idea
[17:22:01] <craynerd> Loetmichael --> that looks quite blown up!
[17:22:13] <Loetmichel> why not booting the linux from a cd and use the builtin USB stick writer?
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[17:22:40] <craynerd> don`t ask... I can`t get this old computer to read the cd or dvd if I try a dvd!
[17:23:01] <Loetmichel> how old?
[17:23:08] <Loetmichel> board/cpu
[17:23:13] <craynerd> I CAN get it to read ubuntu 11.10 or whatever is newest from USB
[17:23:26] <craynerd> not that old, 3-5 year
[17:23:41] <craynerd> no clue..running windowsXp at present so can`t be that old
[17:24:24] <craynerd> I just get an error from the boot up when I try to boot from a cd/dvd image...however the usb worked fine
[17:24:44] <craynerd> just my typical luck, I can`t now seem to make a usb boot for the linuxcnc version I want!
[17:25:39] <Loetmichel> but the CD/dVD drive is working in windows?
[17:25:50] <craynerd> yes..
[17:26:07] <cncbasher> is the emc iso burned on a cd or dvd ?
[17:26:09] <craynerd> not terribly reliably. One of those where you can hear it spinning and eventually gets there
[17:26:13] <Loetmichel> and you have burned the iso to a CD and cant get it to boot?
[17:26:18] <craynerd> I`ve tried both
[17:26:43] <craynerd> yes, got a cd drive and dvd drive...got an image on cd and dvd and tried all 4 combos
[17:26:59] <craynerd> then downloaded latest ubuntu, made usb and it was fine!
[17:27:30] <Loetmichel> strange
[17:27:46] <Loetmichel> maybe something is wron with the downloaded iso?
[17:27:52] <Loetmichel> checked the MD5 sum?
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[17:28:03] <craynerd> no, don`t know how to do that
[17:28:08] <craynerd> I will google it
[17:29:10] <cncbasher> http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/interoperability/create-a-live-cd-on-a-bootable-usb-flash-drive
[17:29:37] <craynerd> D:
[17:29:48] <craynerd> ohh wrong way around... :D
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[17:38:57] <mazafaka> We have a problem with, assumably, a cable driving one of the axis, at our WFL at work.
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[17:51:11] <andypugh> WFL?
[17:52:37] <andypugh> I saw a really expensive looking part today, a 12" x 9" x 6" x 1/8" thick deep draw pressing. Except it was a prototype machined from solid steel!
[17:53:06] <andypugh> I can't help thinking it might have been cheaper to have made the press tool.
[17:55:38] <JT-Shop> or printed on one of those fancy 3-D printers
[17:57:12] <archivist> making a press tool would have needed at least the same amount of metal be machined away
[17:57:59] <andypugh> Indeed, but for the price of two sample parts, they could then have a dozen.
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[17:59:20] <archivist> er one sample part plus a bit for mounting/fixing
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[18:01:39] <archivist> a coke can is still one of the best bits of metal drawing imo
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[18:05:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the world
[18:07:31] <andypugh> archivist: Parker pen refills are more impressive.
[18:08:05] <andypugh> I think they are inside-out at one point.
[18:08:22] <bill20r3> woah
[18:08:37] <archivist> coke cans are narrower at the opening
[18:09:19] <archivist> probably using hydraulics these days
[18:11:28] <Loetmichel> i've seen a cnc metal drawing maschin letely somwhre.. (youtube?)
[18:12:13] <archivist> PET drinks bottle is also clever
[18:12:18] <Loetmichel> IIRC somethin like the car hull sheet metal "hand" tools to form rounded parts, but cnc controlled
[18:13:08] <Loetmichel> ... i.e, a steel ball on top of the sheet, a steel ball on the bottom, synchronized hammering on the sheet to from it in the way one want to have it.
[18:13:30] <Loetmichel> form
[18:13:51] <Loetmichel> was pretty amazing, but i cant find it now
[18:15:17] <jdhnc> scuba cylinders are deep drawn, it's pretty impressive (too me anyway)
[18:16:19] <archivist> oxygen cylinders too but hot so its forged really
[18:17:51] <andypugh> If I burn down my neighbours house, do you think it will silence their burglar alarm?
[18:18:10] <Loetmichel> andypugh: american "cardboard" house?
[18:18:20] <Loetmichel> nearly sure ;-)
[18:18:32] <archivist> UK brick probably
[18:18:39] <Loetmichel> german concrete house? not likeley ;-)
[18:18:41] <andypugh> No, brick and block (with beam and block flors)
[18:18:59] <andypugh> Also, attached to mine, so there is some risk.
[18:19:07] <Loetmichel> yeah
[18:19:31] <andypugh> My parent's house is a pile of rocks, with walls 1m thick :-)
[18:19:38] <Loetmichel> but a fire hose with a big fire engine behind it adjusted to max pressure may do the trick...
[18:20:00] <andypugh> Unfortunately, my fire engine is still broken.
[18:20:01] <Loetmichel> maxbe your local fire brigade wants to make a exersise?
[18:20:03] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 1,2m here also in ground floor
[18:21:18] <andypugh> I think it is important that a house should be built to last for at least 1000 years. I can't understand Americans who only expect a house to last three generations :-)
[18:22:48] <mazafaka> andypugh: WFL M35
[18:22:57] <andypugh> Which reminds me of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisiyama_Onsen_Keiunkan
[18:23:53] <andypugh> mazafaka: It's beyond repair, clearly, but I will take it off your hands.
[18:25:00] <mazafaka> i will try to work tomorrow, having pauses like 20 minutes of idling while waiting the machine will have started properly. (Ome axis isn't ud)
[18:25:08] <mazafaka> usually ready).
[18:26:04] <IchGuckLive> carneval here in Europ(Germany) no work only fun with the ladys
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[18:27:24] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: It was a very odd journey to work this morning (In Köln) as the tram was full of people with their going-to-work faces on, but dressed as ladybird, pirates, pandas, 18thC soldiers, clowns.....
[18:28:02] <IchGuckLive> that what the live is al about
[18:29:24] <andypugh> It seemed a shame to fly home this afternoon, certainly.
[18:30:03] <IchGuckLive> as frankfurt wars blockt for strike
[18:31:47] <andypugh> My hotel was full of people dressed like this: http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2458187.jpg (But I didn't see her)
[18:34:03] <IchGuckLive> yes there are lots of them tonight all over germany http://www.google.de/search?tbm=isch&hl=de&source=hp&biw=1425&bih=862&q=köln+tanzmarichen
[18:36:09] <andypugh> The really bizarre thing is that I was sat in the bar eating and reading a book about the battle of Waterloo, so being surrounded by chaps in shakos and crossbelts was a bit odd.
[18:37:01] <andypugh> Though this page seems to indicate that it is mainly about holding girls in the air :-) http://urban-research.blogspot.com/2011/03/cologne-carnival-2011-and-rose-monday.html
[18:39:53] <archivist> before cnc http://svtplay.se/v/1371069/oppet_arkiv/laggade_trakarl_tillverkas_i_bollebygd__utan_ljud__1923
[18:40:41] <IchGuckLive> andy the best the funky marys this year -> http://funkymarys.de/
[18:42:13] <IchGuckLive> archivist: what is this for
[18:42:32] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWOAAyN3btc&feature=g-vrec&context=G2349e98RVAAAAAAAABg maybe change the exit move? :P
[18:42:43] <archivist> a cooper making a bucket
[18:42:57] <andypugh> archivist: I still make quite a lot of stuff that way.
[18:43:16] <andypugh> (I spent last weekend hand-scraping a big-end bearing I had cast)
[18:44:02] <mrsun> andypugh, my guess is that man under her holding her is feeling quite nice :P
[18:44:04] <andypugh> I have never seen the big over-the-shoulder chisel before, though.
[18:46:05] <andypugh> I had to guess what shape an oil-groove chisel should be. And I have just explained to myself why the skin on the palm of my hand is peeling off (the oil grooving)
[18:46:44] <archivist> still making bearings...fix the lubrication
[18:46:44] <IchGuckLive> the funky marrys have there own youtiube channel nice http://www.youtube.com/user/funkymarys?ob=0&feature=results_main
[18:47:14] <andypugh> archivist: "Steptoe and Son make a buket"
[18:47:35] <mrsun> hmm, the gnd from the parport, should that be isolated from other gnd sources (like control cabinet?) is that gnd connected to the gnd of the chassie of the computer ?
[18:47:44] <mrsun> or is it its own signal ground? :)
[18:48:01] <andypugh> mrsun: Chassis ground, normally I think. Easy to check..
[18:48:20] <mrsun> yeah i guess, just not at a computer more then the lappy atm =)
[18:48:36] <archivist> andypugh, I bet that was father and son
[18:48:39] <mrsun> andypugh, but in the cnc control cabinet with a vfd etc, can the gnd from the parport mix with that gnd? :)
[18:49:25] <IchGuckLive> mrsun: you can connect this if you worry use a optocoppler
[18:49:31] <andypugh> I think it is best not to, but in the case of my components one of them does it for me.
[18:49:41] <IchGuckLive> you can also fit in a DC DC converter
[18:49:41] <mrsun> IchGuckLive, the bob has optocouplers =)
[18:49:52] <IchGuckLive> so dont worry
[18:50:23] <mrsun> ok so just throw it all together and be happy then ? :)
[18:50:31] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:50:54] <mrsun> okidoki
[18:51:00] <mrsun> ill send the bill ;)
[18:51:38] <IchGuckLive> B)
[18:52:20] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: No offence, but German is not a language for singing in, is it?
[18:52:23] <IchGuckLive> on a good board the optocoppler PC side is isolated to the Powerside
[18:52:35] <mrsun> dont know how i will be able to fit 4 axis controllers when i almost cant fit 3 tho :(
[18:52:38] <mrsun> sucks
[18:52:53] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: beer is in all languages the same
[18:52:58] <andypugh> mrsun: Give up now, get a Mesa card.
[18:53:00] <mrsun> and will need to make hole for fan
[18:53:04] <mrsun> andypugh, haha :P
[18:53:23] <IchGuckLive> mrsun: 5 are may on parport
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[18:53:33] <IchGuckLive> max
[18:53:35] <mrsun> IchGuckLive, im thinking more inside the cabinet =)
[18:53:50] <IchGuckLive> oh i had that problem 2
[18:53:53] <mrsun> i want to have one aux axis but the controllers are so big i almost cant cram it in :P
[18:54:06] <andypugh> mrsun: I had a 4-axis + spindle on parport, but then decided I wanted an e-stop too, and got a 7i43. $80 well spent
[18:54:07] <IchGuckLive> china TB6560 give me the clou
[18:54:09] <mrsun> i want oto have the vfd so ic an have some clear plastic so i can see it throught the lid of the box also =)
[18:55:00] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: 7i43 is well for this
[18:56:06] <IchGuckLive> ok i go towards the carneval by for today
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[19:26:42] * Loetmichel has made himself a little Belt holder for his Dell streak smartophone.... out of 1,5mm Aluminium sheet... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12855
[19:27:39] <Loetmichel> today i recognized a _little_ bad thinking: Aluminium and Wlan antennas is a bad idea ;-) ... so i modified it... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12867
[19:29:31] <Loetmichel> Now i have full wlan level IN the holder... and doesent look like john wayne any more (because of the streak and the leatherman on the same side of the jeans, the weight pulls the belt tilted ;-)
[19:29:38] <jdhnc> anyone ever cut PG7 thread? Are semi-oddball thread sized easy?
[19:31:45] <Loetmichel> jdhnc: yes, often... but with a thread drill bit, not on the lathe ;-)
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[19:34:45] <tom3p> archivist, ? heidenhain user? i just found i could up/download under linux using putty, even parms and plc! to a tnc406
[19:36:51] <andypugh> jdhnc: I cut a 14.75x0.9mm thread pair a while back. I ignored all standards, just made it 1:1:1 through the thickness of the parts.
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[19:41:58] <archivist> tom3p, no, I just use the "real thing" TM
[19:43:04] <jdhnc> pg7 taps seem to be fairly expensive
[19:51:13] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: What is in the low part of the photo at http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12867 ?? Trading? You will have to spent a lot of hours to make a profit. It is always better to have mnry from the job you occupy, and having a life which is free from sitting at night with coffee and the stuff behind the monitor and derive smart thoughts out of the DATA (which is the bars from the stock).
[19:51:47] <Loetmichel> wlan signal level
[19:51:52] <mazafaka> oh
[19:51:58] <jdhnc> heh
[19:52:08] <mazafaka> then stop predict the wlan !!
[19:52:15] <Loetmichel> hihi
[19:53:40] <Loetmichel> if you would have clicked on the pic it would be resized... so you could have read (after scrolling down) "wifi analyzer" in the display ;-)
[19:54:00] <Loetmichel> s/ would have/had
[19:54:27] <Loetmichel> s/would be/would have been
[19:54:45] <Loetmichel> sorry, enlish grammar was a LOOOONG time ago ;-)
[19:54:54] <Loetmichel> english
[19:55:01] <mazafaka> really? If only I were not so much in the sleep in my new bed 1900 by 2050 mm !!
[19:55:46] <Loetmichel> mazafaka_ sounds a bit small
[19:55:49] <mazafaka> I should invite some lady maybe... The one which is of 'my type.'
[19:56:11] <Loetmichel> ours is 2200 by 2000. and water filled ;-)
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[19:58:40] <mazafaka> well, this size is for old couples which still think they're young. The size of my bed is for really-doing-the-stuff young couples, where already-used warm part of the surface is still in question while trying some new tricjks
[20:00:32] <mazafaka> Besides, dof and cats appreciate the fact it's close to the water heat exchanger, because our apartment is cold. I need about 3000 USD to get new plastic windows to it. And instead, i wear woolen sweater and socks and plan to buy some rude russian suv
[20:00:47] <mazafaka> /s/dof/my dog
[20:01:28] <Loetmichel> lada?
[20:01:30] <mazafaka> it's cold as in the castle of poor castle's owner.
[20:01:30] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:02:10] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: get a wood stove and go to the woods getting chep to free fuel ;-)
[20:02:16] <Loetmichel> cheap
[20:02:47] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Uaz-469-1.jpg/800px-Uaz-469-1.jpg
[20:03:29] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: our block mof flats is old. There's a wood stove in the kitchen in the third floor
[20:03:54] <mazafaka> so I can add a steel wood stove to existing piping
[20:05:19] <mazafaka> the problem is, i will have to disassemble its soft top to park it into my garage
[20:05:35] <mazafaka> because U
[20:05:46] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[20:05:57] <Loetmichel> why par it in the garage anywas?
[20:06:06] <Loetmichel> just put it outside`?
[20:06:13] <mazafaka> UAZ's height is 2015 and my garage doors' height is 1750 or so
[20:06:25] <mazafaka> well, soft top...
[20:06:30] <Loetmichel> so?
[20:06:34] <Loetmichel> not water tight?
[20:06:49] <mazafaka> it can be stolen for a joy ride
[20:07:35] <Loetmichel> so disable it when parking (take spark distribution finger out?)
[20:09:32] <mazafaka> maybe... who knows... I will have bought some used one, will have to get rid from rust and weld, then repaint - therefore keep it in the garage for some time
[20:09:42] <Loetmichel> or put a wireless switch somewhre in it to short the ignition coil out
[20:10:11] <mazafaka> maybe. The problem is i need to get driver license first.
[20:10:15] <Loetmichel> SOMEWHRE, not a commercially aviable anti-theft device, taht will be found by eager thieves
[20:10:23] <Loetmichel> harhar
[20:11:24] <Loetmichel> same problem here, i want to have some of this again, but my wife says "no, why? you dont even have a drivers license for it!" -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3527
[20:15:53] <mazafaka> i would buy Gas-66 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxmIPJJpv58
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[20:17:10] <mazafaka> http://www.risk.ru/i/post/20/20383_full.jpg
[20:18:18] <mazafaka> But trucks are huge for me. I will have to buy a cottage to park it on the private territory for it to be safe
[20:18:41] <mrsun> gah so hard to fit everything
[20:18:50] <mrsun> i will have to put fans all over this cabinet to keep the heat out :P
[20:18:54] <mrsun> or find a bigger one ...
[20:19:13] <mrsun> but the cabinett gets alot bigger then the mill itself :P
[20:19:55] <mazafaka> i'll go sleep
[20:20:07] <archivist> add stuph to the mill :)
[20:20:54] <mrsun> archivist, haha =)
[20:21:01] <mrsun> thats one way to "solve" it :P
[20:22:18] <archivist> I got a large milling machine box packer to jack the column up on mine
[20:22:57] <archivist> the B axis hangs on an extension too
[20:23:17] <Connor> Topic: Colbalt vs HSS vs Titanium Nitride Coated for drillbits.... GO!!
[20:23:17] <mrsun> im thinling of building a "bench" for the mill, that would contain the controller insted =)
[20:23:34] <mrsun> under the whole mill, tho water coolant wouldnt be so good then i guess :(
[20:24:16] <archivist> Connor, simple, use the right tool for the job, only you know the job
[20:24:47] <Connor> No specific job... Just need to get a new indexed set. I mostly do Alum and light Steel.
[20:24:57] <Connor> and maybe a little cast iron.
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[20:26:59] <mrsun> or ill just use my old big computer chassie
[20:27:09] <mrsun> its big but if i fit it on a shelf it wouldnt be in the way
[20:27:10] <mrsun> hmm
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[20:33:55] <didge> hi
[20:34:05] <didge> I went to school for CNC.
[20:34:15] <alex4nder> hi
[20:34:47] <didge> I'm conducting experiments with ultrasonics as one of my hobbies.
[20:40:40] <andypugh> Distance measurement? Or something more exotic?
[20:41:38] <didge> I've used an ultrasonic ruler. I'm just learning now.
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[21:11:58] <craynerd> I`m ripping my hair our here... can anyone make any suggestions. I just can not install the 10.04 with linuxcnc provided on the download page
[21:12:07] <craynerd> I just get errors...
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[21:12:17] <craynerd> during the download.. I don`t know what else I can try
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[21:14:24] <archivist> craynerd, I, on the same ISP, just trying a download
[21:14:30] <archivist> I am
[21:16:56] <archivist> 14mins to go
[21:18:02] <archivist> craynerd, Im on a business line so may get better service
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[21:31:06] <archivist> worksforme 5283b33b7e23e79da1ee561ad476b05f ubuntu-10.04-linuxcnc1-i386.iso
[21:31:52] <archivist> craynerd, what errors, what os
[21:40:13] <archivist> feedback error
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[22:01:24] <KimK> craynerd: I'm not clear on your trouble, but in case your getting a good download of the iso is the issue, I put back up an old torrent for you. See http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=eebd5ddae35ed3f9a0438efd0afbea467f456af1 for the torrent link. I'll check back later.
[22:03:05] <archivist> he is not giving us his real error messages, hard to help
[22:07:34] <andypugh> I wonder if there is any milage in volunteers in each country posting out known-good CDs (for a nominal charge)
[22:07:48] <cradek> ubuntu does that for you/us
[22:08:11] <cradek> then you just install linuxcnc etc from the repository
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[22:08:37] <Thetawaves> anybody have some latency numbers for the newer atoms?
[22:08:44] <Thetawaves> can't find any atom 330s anymore
[22:08:52] <cradek> in the lucid days, while we were still fresh-faced enough to think that we didn't need our own whole damn OS install, we ordered CDs from ubuntu and handed them out
[22:10:01] <Thetawaves> actually there is some numbers for the D525
[22:10:08] <andypugh> That still relies in a good internet connection. Which I am led to believe may not yet be ubiquitous (hard for me to believe, I have had many megabit/s since the early 90s. (superJANET))
[22:10:58] <cradek> sure but it doesn't need to be nearly as good.
[22:14:02] <alex_joni> I'm finally happy (for now) with my connection ;)
[22:16:03] * skunkworks_ remembers when he was happy with 56k
[22:16:24] <archivist> I got a business line to make sure of fixed ip and a level of service
[22:16:42] <alex_joni> sounds expensive
[22:17:27] <archivist> it is a bit
[22:17:46] <alex_joni> 15.14$/month here for 120Mbit down, 6Mbit up
[22:18:06] <archivist> we get screwed in the UK
[22:19:02] <alex_joni> you need more providers to lower the price
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[22:19:21] <archivist> the basic network is all BT
[22:19:27] <alex_joni> archivist: don't feel bad. at work I pay about 70$ for 10Mbit ;)
[22:20:20] <archivist> all the cheaper providers only cover towns/cities
[22:20:23] <alex_joni> but that's fiber optics, and guaranteed uptime, etc
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[22:20:37] <alex_joni> well, living in a city does have advantages :P
[22:21:36] <archivist> my nearest exchange is over a mile in a straight line, I wonder how I get the rate I do get
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[22:28:06] <andypugh> I am about to be upgraded to 60Mb
[22:29:14] <andypugh> Though I am not sure I will notice.
[22:29:46] <archivist> they are upgrading in Burton, but dont think my exchange will see any upgrade
[22:30:22] <andypugh> Aye, this is Virgin cable.
[22:30:59] <archivist> cable! nearest is nottingham I think
[22:32:04] <andypugh> I have been on cable for years, to the extent that it is part of my decision when choosing a new domicile.
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[22:41:08] <skunkworks_> 1Mb here... which is been too slow for a few years now. :)
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[22:45:09] <clytle374> You all don't know how good you've got it, try a satellite connection
[22:45:27] <clytle374> slow, expensive, bandwith limits, weather sensitive
[22:47:41] <archivist> Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah
[22:48:17] <archivist> who can guess the next line
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[22:54:34] <clytle374> barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways?
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[22:55:28] <archivist> no http://www.phespirit.info/montypython/four_yorkshiremen.htm
[22:57:33] <alex_joni> heh
[22:59:42] <archivist> apt with us all discussing its worse for me :)
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[23:00:35] * archivist old enough to have watched on first transmission
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[23:10:35] <clytle374> is math functions in rtai required? Having issues building it with it on
[23:12:30] <alex_joni> well, not for rtai per se.. but for emc2 it's pretty much required
[23:15:34] <Jymmm> http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/tracking-87000-flights-day
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[23:26:54] <andypugh> rtai_math is all the mathematical functions used by the realtime components. I have a feeling that the trajectory planner would cease to work without it.
[23:28:30] <andypugh> Jymmm: Err, how do you spell "taxi fare" in the US?
[23:28:43] <bill20r3> like that.
[23:28:52] <bill20r3> or just "cab fare"
[23:29:03] <Jymmm> andypugh: what you/bill said
[23:29:20] <andypugh> Ok, because at the start of that clip the graphic has "fair"
[23:29:50] <Jymmm> fare (fee) is correct
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[23:30:06] <andypugh> OK, so the TV guys got it wrong.
[23:30:07] <clytle374> andypugh, thanks I didn't know if it relied on math through rtai or not.
[23:30:19] <clytle374> Getting weird errors trying to compile
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[23:31:01] <archivist> clytle374, ask about the errors then
[23:31:35] <archivist> I remember seeing something about maths the other day
[23:32:03] <clytle374> I'm trying to get it running on precise, trying to figure out why my Gentoo never worked.
[23:32:05] <clytle374> /usr/include/features.h:324:26: fatal error: bits/predefs.h: No such file or directory
[23:32:33] <clytle374> All google references to that error indicate missing 32 bit stuff on a 64 bit system.
[23:32:39] <clytle374> This is a 32 bit system
[23:32:57] <andypugh> That's outside the LinuxCNC code tree, isn't it?
[23:33:35] <clytle374> yeah, it's rtai
[23:33:54] <andypugh> I am not sure it is even RTAI
[23:34:27] <clytle374> well, it's the error I get building rtai
[23:34:31] <archivist> some part of Gentoo missing? dev libraries
[23:34:31] <andypugh> But I do know that I don't know enough to know if I know that,
[23:35:11] <archivist> where/what defines predefs.h
[23:35:17] <Jymmm> This is fucked up http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/right-or-wrong-cop-uses-excessive-force-disabled-man
[23:35:18] <clytle374> this is precise. I can build everything on gentoo just fine... It just doesn't run
[23:35:52] <alex_joni> clytle374: you're not running UP by any chance?
[23:36:01] <clytle374> no
[23:36:07] <clytle374> archivist, In file included from /usr/include/math.h:28:0,
[23:36:08] <clytle374> from /usr/src/rtai/base/math/e_acos.c:41:
[23:36:16] <alex_joni> there was a similar error on the rtai mailing list the other day
[23:36:22] <alex_joni> in the latest rtai cvs snapshot
[23:36:39] <clytle374> I missed that
[23:36:47] <clytle374> But, I think I miss a lot
[23:37:21] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You're neighbor? http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/great-romanian-sledding-fail
[23:38:23] <andypugh> Lucky to find a gate
[23:40:32] <andypugh> You see, when I was a lad sleds had the traditional pattern of a wood platform and two narrow metal runners (think "Rosebud") and nobody ever noticed that they simply didn't work. Then somebody invented the plastic tub design, and excitement and injuries followed soon after.
[23:42:18] <alex_joni> Jymmm: haha
[23:43:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni: couldn't resist =)
[23:49:03] <alex_joni> good night ;)
[23:49:48] <andypugh> And goodnight from me too.
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