#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-23

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[00:00:20] <mirage335> pcb2gcode gives me "No drill file specified." What exactly am I supposed to do about that, when all I have is gbr files?
[00:00:50] <Tom_itx> there's no drill file with them?
[00:00:52] <Tom_itx> should be
[00:01:29] <mirage335> No, not to my knowledge.
[00:01:39] <mirage335> I have the *front.gbr file though.
[00:02:00] <alex4nder> how would you do a PCB without a drill file, unless it's single sided, and all SMT?
[00:02:16] <mirage335> It is single sided, and all SMT. :|
[00:02:23] <Tom_itx> with no vias :)
[00:02:24] <djdelorie> do you have a *.cnc file ?
[00:02:33] <djdelorie> ah, you wouldn't then ;-)
[00:02:47] <mirage335> Ahh, yes. I do have a *.cnc file.
[00:02:52] <mirage335> Looks like it has the vias.
[00:02:58] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: not a lot of vias on single sided boards. ;)
[00:03:16] <Tom_itx> mmm true but there could be jumpers
[00:03:51] <alex4nder> non-SMT jumpers on an all-SMT board? ;D
[00:03:53] <mirage335> I have only 3 vias, each to resolve ground plane islanding.
[00:03:57] <alex4nder> werd.
[00:04:00] <mirage335> This is a high-performance RF board.
[00:04:01] <alex4nder> well then you need a drill file.
[00:04:09] <mirage335> Yeah, I see it now.
[00:04:34] <mirage335> Now, why do the PNGs show the traces rather than the outlines of those traces (which I would expect to cut)?
[00:08:54] <mirage335> pcb2gcode --mill-speed 1000 --drill-speed 1000 --mill-feed 5 --drill-feed 1 --cutter-diameter 0.001 --outline-width 0.001 --offset 0.002 --zwork -0.01 --zdrill 0.1 --zchange 0.5 --zcut 0.2 --cut-feed 1 --cut-speed 1000 --cut-infeed 0.5 --zsafe 0.5 --front ./Schematic.front.gbr --drill Schematic.plated-drill.cnc
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[00:25:58] <skunkKandT> hmm - just made 4 scrap parts perfectly mirrored from what I wanted...
[00:26:10] <skunkKandT> that sucks
[00:28:18] <skunkKandT> hmmm maybe I can salvage them...
[00:29:27] <skunkKandT> huh - I think I can
[00:30:11] <skunkKandT> if anyone asks.. the pipe plug is very important to the part.
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[00:38:34] <kb8wmc> repstrap?
[00:55:19] <Jymmm> I need to heat bend and create a CLEAN 1/4" crease in .030" plastic sheet that's 24" long. Any thoughts?
[00:57:04] <frysteev_> heat
[00:59:19] <frysteev_> Jymmm: whats it for?
[00:59:21] <kb8wmc> Jymmm: a calrod of appropriate length which might be inserted into cu tubing
[00:59:46] <Jymmm> kb8wmc: this is sheet material, not tubing
[01:00:39] <skunkKandT> he is talking about inserting a calrad element into a copper tube the right diameter to bend your sheet
[01:00:47] <skunkKandT> around
[01:00:52] <kb8wmc> yes, I thought it is, but to bend it with what I understood to be a radius of 1/4" you would need the tubing
[01:00:53] <Jymmm> calrod?
[01:01:04] <skunkKandT> calrad
[01:01:05] <kb8wmc> it is a heating element
[01:01:17] <skunkKandT> or is it calrod?
[01:01:24] <Jymmm> I need to fold over a 1/4" ----==
[01:01:28] <kb8wmc> similar to electric water heating type
[01:02:15] <skunkKandT> or you could just get a steel rod the right diameter and heat it the 'right amount' with a torch... might take a few trys
[01:02:47] <Jymmm> The heat isn't the issue, it's bending it over CLEANLY
[01:02:51] <frysteev_> just put a clip lead on each end of the steel and run some current through it
[01:02:52] <kb8wmc> or if you can find the proper material to pack within a tube, you could make your own heating element
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[01:04:26] <kb8wmc> you may need to have two parallel guides spaced appropriately to help in making a "clean" straight bend
[01:05:20] <Jymmm> Right, but once bent over need to be flattened, I dont have a pair of pliers 24" long =)
[01:06:24] <frysteev_> you have a sheet metal bender?
[01:06:32] <kb8wmc> sort of like a double-leaf bending brake, heating device centered above plastic, then bend one of the leaves to desired degrees
[01:06:49] <kb8wmc> I have two small ones
[01:07:07] <kb8wmc> 28" is the longest, the other is 24"
[01:07:50] <kb8wmc> oh, sorry, question was for Jymmm
[01:08:50] <kb8wmc> I should keep up with my reading
[01:08:51] <Jymmm> frysteev_: No, but that actually sounds like the perfect tool for this job. One of those little bench top ones.
[01:10:00] <frysteev_> ya
[01:10:04] <kb8wmc> yes, my little one would do the job well I believe....
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[01:58:28] <Jymmm> frysteev_: kb8wmc Interesting... http://www.harborfreight.com/18-inch-sheet-metal-folding-tool-96523.html
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[02:11:01] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: hey are you here?
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[02:48:10] <elmo40> ok, this is just amazing.
[02:48:32] <elmo40> machining pr0n ;) http://youtu.be/4NNlIAmk4xk
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[02:52:27] <ssi> shit that thing's fast
[02:54:10] <elmo40> those robodrill machines are amazing
[02:58:12] <elmo40> nothing like my machine! http://youtu.be/_QN7pyrm-NM
[03:04:27] <elmo40> id love to have my 4th axis spin (and be accurate) like this! http://youtu.be/t9pjYe3E64w
[03:10:31] <ssi> that's a cool machine
[03:11:12] <ssi> they're both cool machines :D
[03:11:36] <ssi> I like the autoworkholding
[03:11:50] <ssi> and holy fast trunnion batman
[03:13:30] <ssi> I'd be terrified spinning something as heavy as a cylinder head that fast on that table
[03:13:36] <ssi> better have faith in your workholding :D
[03:17:37] <elmo40> if you notice, the spinning is right in the centre of gravity.
[03:17:43] <ssi> yea I know
[03:17:46] <ssi> but still... scurry :)
[03:17:51] <elmo40> so its like spinning nothing ;)
[03:18:01] <ssi> it's not quite nothing
[03:18:06] <ssi> it's just a whole lot of well balanced something
[03:18:10] <ssi> and a really powerful motor
[03:18:25] <elmo40> its not overly large
[03:18:38] <elmo40> the 4-th motor
[03:18:48] <elmo40> but I think it is direct drive
[03:18:52] <ssi> yeah
[03:19:20] <elmo40> I have yet to see one in a trade show
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[04:29:58] <Valen> do you think they are spinning more than they need to in that vid? ;->
[04:30:03] <ssi> a bit :)
[04:30:19] <Valen> i'm guessing the drive is the black one, whats in the yellow one?
[04:30:26] <ssi> giant encoder?
[04:30:28] <ssi> :P
[04:30:36] <Valen> why on that side though?
[04:30:45] <Valen> I have seen encoders that size, but they were on a telescope
[04:30:52] <ssi> I wonder if it's a brake
[04:30:57] <Valen> that'd be it
[04:30:58] <ssi> braking tailstock that is
[04:31:28] <Valen> oh the extra flips would be for "swarf removal" honest ;->
[04:31:35] <ssi> heheheh
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[05:11:38] <alex4nder> hey
[05:21:55] -!- MrTrick [MrTrick!8a192f01@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.25.47.1] has joined #linuxcnc
[05:22:22] <MrTrick> A friend's engagement party is tomorrow. I have a CNC router, 3mm ply, 3mm white acrylic, a small amount of aluminium stock.... any suggestions on what I might be able to make for them?
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[05:28:56] <Jymmm> MrTrick: what time is it where you are at?
[05:29:14] <MrTrick> 4:30pm.
[05:30:06] <Jymmm> hit the store and get one of those bamboo cutting boards. You can then engrave the back of it with their info
[05:30:37] <Jymmm> well, forget the bamboo, just a hardwood ctting board
[05:30:50] <MrTrick> Hmm, interesting idea. I don't know if my machine's big enough to fit a decent-sized cutting board in there.
[05:31:08] <Jymmm> you dont have to carve the whole ting, just a section of it
[05:31:09] <MrTrick> I'll give them a proper present for the wedding, was thinking more some kind of personalised token.
[05:32:26] <Jymmm> engraved keepsake box
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[05:33:24] <Jymmm> engraved wooden coasters
[05:33:46] <Jymmm> Heh, engraved baseball bat!
[05:33:59] <Jymmm> two of them... his and hers
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[05:35:22] <Jymmm> MrTrick: OH, how about engraved wooden kitchen spoons.
[05:36:04] <MrTrick> Jymmm: :-D Love the baseball bat idea! Hmmm, might get in wifely trouble for it though...
[05:36:27] <Jymmm> MrTrick: then pickup a dog house when you get the bat
[05:36:30] <Jymmm> s
[05:36:55] <Jymmm> or you can use the plywood, plastic, and aluminum to make yourself one
[05:37:09] <MrTrick> Hmm, you've given me some interesting ideas.
[05:37:29] <Jymmm> http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/274997687/Beech_Wooden_Spoon_Set_2.jpg
[05:37:36] <MrTrick> Coasters might be the most achievable thing.
[05:38:48] <MrTrick> I made a pair of them just yesterday, in fact: http://tinyurl.com/6vtejta
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[05:40:34] <Jymmm> MrTrick: where did yo get the candle holders from?
[05:41:04] <MrTrick> Dusk, I think. The wife bought them.
[05:41:10] <MrTrick> I don't have a 4th axis yet.
[05:41:21] <Jymmm> ah
[05:50:18] <MrTrick> nice idea though
[05:50:51] <Jymmm> what is?
[05:51:10] <MrTrick> It's a great technique for doing artwork - paint the material, then cut a shape into it.
[05:51:16] <MrTrick> I might try something like that, as an artwork.
[05:51:42] <Jymmm> that looks like molded glass that's been coated
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[06:14:11] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:28:17] * MrTrick found: http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/598477/598477,1308719894,3/stock-vector-lover-couple-love-proposal-wedding-marriage-hug-romantic-kissing-holding-hand-gift-angry-slap-kick-79687864.jpg
[06:29:18] <MrTrick> I'm going to try taking the first SIX images (not the last three ^_^) and cutting them into coasters with the couple's names around the outside
[06:30:42] <Jymmm> wuss
[06:30:51] <Jymmm> MrTrick: http://www.freeimageworks.com/vector-lover-couple-love-proposal-wedding-marriage-hug-romantic-kissing-holding-hand-gift-angry-slap-kick/-
[06:31:55] <MrTrick> bah. :-)
[06:32:46] <MrTrick> I'd already vectorised and cleaned them up!
[06:36:12] <Valen> MrTrick: nice lol
[06:36:43] <MrTrick> alright, thanks guys. Time to go home from work - I'll see how I go with this.
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[07:11:47] <mrsun> gah i hate being sick :(
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[07:40:27] <mrsun> hmm, power of a electromagnet, what is it that makes that?
[07:40:33] <mrsun> the more turns the more powerfull ? :)
[07:43:04] <Loetmichel> mrsun: Amperewindings
[07:43:20] <Loetmichel> i.E.: turns * current
[07:43:37] <Loetmichel> and then the Core which acts as a "field concentrator"
[07:45:22] <Loetmichel> so for a given core you have to take in consideration the number of turns, the current flowing AND the capability of the core to hold the field
[07:45:30] <Loetmichel> ("saturation")
[07:46:21] <mrsun> hmm ok =)
[07:46:27] <Loetmichel> if the core saturates it will instantly loose the field and though lessen in "power" even if the current goes up
[07:46:32] <mrsun> was thinking if electromagnets would be enough to pull and release a drawbar =)
[07:46:55] <mrsun> or more like release, a spring should be pulling i guess
[07:47:56] <Loetmichel> whats a drawbar?
[07:48:30] <mrsun> Loetmichel, the thing that holds the tool holder in place in the spindle
[07:49:41] <Loetmichel> ahg, the "overlong screw" thorou THE SPINDLEß
[07:49:46] <Loetmichel> ?
[07:50:15] <mrsun> yes
[07:50:35] <mrsun> but replace that with a power drawbar and a pull stud on the top of the thingie you put in the taper
[07:50:45] <mrsun> to pull and release the whole thing mechanicly =)
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[07:55:50] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:48:09] <Loetmichel> mrsun: i doubt that a magnet will hold enough force
[09:48:48] <Loetmichel> normally that is made with stacked "dish" springs and a compressed air cylinder for release
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[09:51:14] <Loetmichel> the point on this is: the cylinder can press on the drawbar top without any bearing 'cause the spindle is stationary if the tool gets released
[09:51:42] <Loetmichel> in normal operation the cylinder is drawn beck by a internal spring so it hast so9me play to the drawbar
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[09:51:57] <Loetmichel> back
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[09:53:03] <vin321> morning
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[13:11:00] <skunkworks> #linuxcnc-devel
[13:11:06] <skunkworks> boy
[13:15:18] <tehDarkAura> think i can put 27 volts through a nema 17?
[13:16:00] <skunkworks> nema 17 what?
[13:16:16] <tehDarkAura> i read somewhere that 10 times the coil voltage is okay but on my cheap chineese controller board it says i dont want to go above 19
[13:16:34] <tehDarkAura> stepper -- one sec ill go grab the datasheet
[13:17:41] <tehDarkAura> http://i.ebayimg.com/t/NEW-Nema17-Stepper-Motor-7-5-ohm-0-8-Amp-1-8-Deg-3400g-cm-CNC-Reprap-Arduino-/00/s/NjQ3WDc0NQ==/$(KGrHqN,!oUE63(fpTjqBOzRnOgRRw~~60_58.JPG
[13:18:04] <skunkworks> sounds like you are limited by the controller
[13:18:05] <tehDarkAura> let me clean up the specs before i past
[13:18:06] <cncbasher> if the controller cant handle more than 19v then thats your limit , regardless of the motor
[13:18:28] <tehDarkAura> ahh but the max voltage for the controller is 35V
[13:18:46] <tehDarkAura> but then they break down each stepper and say dont use more then X for a nema X
[13:18:51] <cncbasher> in that case then 35 is your limit
[13:19:34] <cncbasher> it's not the voltage thats the major problem it's current capacity
[13:20:00] <cncbasher> voltage gives you velocity and current is the holding torque
[13:20:12] <cncbasher> put simply of course
[13:20:32] <tehDarkAura> ahhh
[13:20:45] <cncbasher> just dont go above say 30v
[13:20:56] <tehDarkAura> ahh okay cool :)
[13:21:24] <cncbasher> what current capacity is your power supply
[13:21:52] <cncbasher> and how many steppers
[13:22:30] <cncbasher> and what is the current rating of the stepper motor
[13:22:34] <tehDarkAura> Size 17 Nema Voltage 6.0 VDC Current 0.8A Holding Torque 3400 g-cm
[13:22:35] <tehDarkAura> Resistance/phase 7.5ohm Inductance 8mH
[13:22:35] <tehDarkAura> Phases 2/4 Wires 6 Rotor Inertia 82 g-cm^2 Weight .35 Kg
[13:22:40] <tehDarkAura> there is the motor specs
[13:22:57] <tehDarkAura> bought i bigger PSU then i think ill need -- let me go grab the specs off it real quick
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[13:23:27] <tehDarkAura> 320W @ 27V
[13:23:30] <cncbasher> ok so a rule of thumb gets you in the ball park stepper is rated at 0.8A
[13:23:49] <cncbasher> each stepper has 2 windings
[13:23:56] <cncbasher> so 2 x 0.8a
[13:24:02] <tehDarkAura> 11.85 Amps i guess
[13:24:04] <cncbasher> = 1.6a
[13:24:08] <tehDarkAura> Ahhhh
[13:24:11] <tehDarkAura> okay
[13:24:17] <cncbasher> 1.6 x number of steppers
[13:24:30] <tehDarkAura> and i want to use a total of 5 steppers
[13:24:37] <tehDarkAura> so looks okay right?
[13:25:17] <cncbasher> ok so 1.6 x 5 = 8A in total
[13:25:25] <tehDarkAura> dang chineese instructions scared me ;)
[13:25:37] <cncbasher> so a 10A supply would be fine
[13:25:49] <tehDarkAura> sweeeet
[13:25:54] <cncbasher> given that this is a quick guide
[13:25:59] <tehDarkAura> sure
[13:26:07] <tehDarkAura> thanks for putting my mind to ease ;)
[13:26:18] <cncbasher> as not all steppers will pull maximum current at any one time
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[13:27:06] <cncbasher> so you could say a 6 - 7a supply would be capable , but better to go higher than lower
[13:27:22] <tehDarkAura> yeah no doubt
[13:27:23] <cncbasher> and that takes into account any cable loss
[13:27:32] <tehDarkAura> ahhh okay cool
[13:27:45] <cncbasher> just a quick way of getting in the ball park
[13:28:26] <cncbasher> just make sure your stepper drives are current limited to something around 1.5A
[13:28:38] <tehDarkAura> ohhh okay cool
[13:28:57] <cncbasher> it's the current limiting which is the major factor
[13:28:58] <tehDarkAura> max output of 2.5A for each so i was going to start at 25%
[13:29:04] <tehDarkAura> **3.5 A
[13:29:19] <tehDarkAura> maybe ill skip that and try %50
[13:29:29] <cncbasher> your motors are 2 x 0.8a
[13:29:37] <cncbasher> so 1.6a max
[13:29:45] <tehDarkAura> ahhh
[13:29:55] <cncbasher> so you need to get as close to that as you can
[13:30:27] <cncbasher> ok so the max is 2.5A EACH
[13:30:32] <tehDarkAura> okay cool - ill start at 25 and try 50
[13:30:37] <tehDarkAura> no 3.5
[13:30:38] <tehDarkAura> sorry
[13:30:44] <cncbasher> arh ok
[13:30:48] <cncbasher> 3.5 max
[13:31:31] <cncbasher> so 50% = 1.75a
[13:31:43] <cncbasher> 3.5/2
[13:32:16] <tehDarkAura> okay cool -- thats pretty close to what i need then!
[13:32:18] <cncbasher> what other settings do you have % wise
[13:32:31] <tehDarkAura> 25 50 75 100
[13:33:16] <tehDarkAura> .875 at 25%
[13:33:28] <cncbasher> ok 75% gives you way too low a figure like 1.1a
[13:33:43] <cncbasher> so 50% is the closest you'll get
[13:33:49] <tehDarkAura> okay cool
[13:33:57] <tehDarkAura> :))
[13:34:20] <cncbasher> so using a slightly lower voltage than say 35v
[13:34:36] <jdhnc> or 12V
[13:34:46] <cncbasher> so say 28v - 30 would help
[13:35:01] <tehDarkAura> ahhh
[13:35:10] <cncbasher> at the expence of a slight speed reduction
[13:35:21] <tehDarkAura> ahh i see
[13:35:39] <jdhnc> I'd try 12V first
[13:35:57] <tehDarkAura> yeah i got a 12V for my reprap
[13:36:20] <tehDarkAura> think its around 300W too
[13:37:22] <tehDarkAura> atleast i bought the cheap chineese board that PTH and i got spares for every part on it ;) so if i fry something i can put some new stuff on
[13:37:51] <cncbasher> haha they only need to see voltage and they run a mile
[13:38:16] <tehDarkAura> cool
[13:38:39] <tehDarkAura> thanks for the help you two! -- I feel confident enough to wire this stuff up tonight now :)
[13:38:50] <cncbasher> blow plenty of air around and keep it cool and you'll be ok
[13:38:58] <tehDarkAura> okay cool will do
[13:39:17] <cncbasher> it's normal for steppers to run slightly hot
[13:39:30] <cncbasher> so dont worry if they feel warm to touch
[13:39:38] <cncbasher> so long as their not red hot
[13:39:39] <tehDarkAura> ahh okay
[13:39:57] <tehDarkAura> so aslong as i can withstand a touch its probably okay then
[13:40:01] <tehDarkAura> sounds good
[13:40:07] <cncbasher> remember they get hot and draw most current when stationary
[13:40:18] <cncbasher> yes thats fine
[13:40:19] <tehDarkAura> okay cool
[13:40:41] <cncbasher> so it's important to keep the controller air moving
[13:41:06] <cncbasher> which is why they tend to blow becoming over temp
[13:41:19] <tehDarkAura> ahhhh i see
[13:41:40] <tehDarkAura> this actually has a decent sink on it -- id like to put a bigger fan though
[13:41:42] <cncbasher> theirs not a great current selectable range available
[13:42:07] <cncbasher> get rid of the heat and you'll be fine
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[13:42:25] <tehDarkAura> http://www.ebay.com/itm/390362091264
[13:42:32] <tehDarkAura> thats what im using fwiw
[13:42:36] <tehDarkAura> okay cool
[13:43:18] <cncbasher> stick a larger fan in it
[13:43:22] <cncbasher> or 2
[13:43:30] <tehDarkAura> hehe okay cool will do
[13:43:31] <cncbasher> realy move the heat out
[13:44:16] <cncbasher> if you can stand the heat with your finger tips on the controller heatsink it will be fine
[13:45:04] <tehDarkAura> okay cool ill keep a hand on it and see how it runs
[13:45:11] <cncbasher> but moving the heat out if in a box will help quite a bit , cooler the better as far as the controller goes
[14:00:08] <jdhnc> and with a chinese tb6560, you need all the help you can get.
[14:00:36] <tehDarkAura> yeah no doubt
[14:01:15] <tehDarkAura> i was going to print a box for it -- but ill wait until its actually cutting something
[14:01:24] <tehDarkAura> not sure where i want to mount it yet...
[14:01:26] <cncbasher> those small fans they fit is a joke
[14:02:01] <tehDarkAura> yeah looks really out of place all alone on the heat sink ;)
[14:02:04] <cncbasher> try and blow across the heatsink , perhaps using 2 fans on the case
[14:02:19] <cncbasher> one pushing the air on , and one drawing the air out
[14:02:26] <tehDarkAura> ahhh okay cool one in one out
[14:02:32] <tehDarkAura> yeah okay cool good idea
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[14:03:15] <cncbasher> iv'e done that with a few designs , and a bit of card tunneling the air across , which worked sucessfully
[14:03:30] <tehDarkAura> ahh!
[14:03:42] <tehDarkAura> maybe i can incorporate that into the box i print
[14:04:22] <tehDarkAura> i got a bunch of those muffin fans used on servers -- think this will be a good task for them
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[14:28:15] <jepler> apparently Baptists can be either Calvinist or Arminianists, and those two groups have different ideas about just what "grace" is (irresistable grace vs prevenient grace)
[14:29:39] <jepler> I think the viewpoint that Michael was putting forward was the Calvinist "irresistable grace"
[14:30:14] <jepler> which is obviously only consistent with an evil god
[14:33:02] <tehDarkAura> religion in general does only a little good in my opinion
[14:33:11] <jepler> argh, I was typing into the wrong channel
[14:33:23] <tehDarkAura> hehe
[14:33:24] <jepler> apologies to all
[14:34:11] <cradek> ha
[14:35:20] <jepler> particularly for the last bit, where I got into flamebait territory.
[14:35:55] <JT-Shop> lol
[14:37:30] <alex_joni> jepler: Your penance will be five Our Fathers and four Hail Marys.
[14:40:28] <cradek> jepler: instead of apologizing, you should propose that the US should change to the metric system
[14:40:49] <cradek> it's very easy to distract us
[14:44:23] <awallin> umm, hasn't both the UK and US already officially switched in the 70s or 80s ?? (distracted already!)
[14:44:51] <jepler> The United States is the only industrialized country that does not use the metric system as its official system of measurement, although the metric system has been officially sanctioned for use there since 1866.[1]
[14:45:59] <jepler> reference goes to a NIST document with the radical title "Toward a Metric America" http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/1136a.pdf
[14:46:36] <awallin> ok... interesting..
[14:56:53] <djdelorie> jepler: that explains why soda comes in 2 liter bottles
[14:58:39] <djdelorie> and drugs are sold by the gram (or microgram)
[14:59:11] <jepler> I don't understand why soda comes in 2 liter bottles, since 2 quarts are 5% volume.
[14:59:14] <frysteev_> YO
[14:59:24] <jepler> er, 5% less volume
[15:00:58] <awallin> this looks mechanically at least half-promising, at least compared to many other 3d printer efforts.. http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120323-introducing-cartesio-cnc-3d-printer-kit.html
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[15:05:39] <awallin> belt-drive seems to be popular with 3d printers. no cutting forces..
[15:07:13] <djdelorie> belt drive means less moving mass, too.
[15:07:53] <awallin> 1750eur for the kit, with 3D printed plastic fittings, is a bit steep maybe?
[15:09:29] <djdelorie> Once I get my cnc machine working, converting it to 3D is on my list of wild ideas to try :-)
[15:15:38] <Dave911> I want to know why you can now buy motor oil in 5.1 quart bottles???? Where did that come from?? If my car takes 5 quarts what do I do with the other .1 quart ?
[15:18:02] <djdelorie> you put it in anyway, of course.
[15:18:11] <djdelorie> or, more likely, spill it over the side of the engine :-)
[15:20:28] <tehDarkAura> i buy my drugs by the ounce for what its worth ;)
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[15:32:59] <Dave911> >>spill it over the side of the engine<< So I should simply be sloppier than I normally am...additional rust prevention!!! I can do that! :-)
[15:42:05] <ssi> awallin: that one actually looks pretty nice
[15:43:24] <ssi> I wonder how many hours it takes to print parts on it
[15:43:28] <ssi> looks fairly slow :P
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[15:56:51] <Dave911> awallin: That is the first 3D printer kit I have seen that looks like a decent design.. most appear to be junk.
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[16:15:29] <tehDarkAura> im pretty happy with my prusa
[16:15:57] <tehDarkAura> the mendel max looks a lot nicer though
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[17:29:55] <JT-Shop> to do an inside 90° turn with cutter comp on does that have to be an arc to not get the gouging error?
[17:36:37] <Tom_itx> i bet so since the tool has radius.
[17:39:27] <JT-Shop> dumb ass me the move was smaller than the tool diameter :/
[17:39:52] <Tom_itx> not such a good idea
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[17:56:48] <JT-Shop> neither is threading with CSS still turned on
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[18:10:12] <cradek> JT-Shop: no, you can do sharp inside corners now
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[18:10:36] <cradek> I think the docs even have an example you wrote...
[18:14:10] <JT-Shop> yes, I was trying to make a move that was smaller than the tool diameter :/
[18:14:17] <JT-Shop> kinda dumb mistake
[18:15:37] <cradek> ah
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[18:24:11] <IchGuckLive> Hi all around the globe
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[18:27:42] <IchGuckLive> jdhnc: there are large storms hidding your direction tonight
[18:29:21] <jdhnc> there are?
[18:29:47] <jdhnc> I was supposed to take the day off and go diving, but the waves are a little too much.
[18:30:08] <IchGuckLive> tornado warning in place
[18:30:17] <jdhnc> nah, not here
[18:30:42] <IchGuckLive> then its fine
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[18:54:22] <joe9> are these numbers good with the kern/latency/run: http://codepad.org/TsFii8vq
[18:54:38] <joe9> the lat_max is a lot lesser than the base period (100,000ns)
[18:54:52] <joe9> it is also in negative's most of the time. not sure if that is good or bad.
[18:58:12] <cradek> overruns=0 is the good sign
[18:58:20] <cradek> go ahead and build linuxcnc and run its latency test
[19:04:35] <joe9> cradek: ok, thanks.
[19:06:01] <joe9> the only thing that is worrisome is that the kern/switches/run just showed me the last few lines of /var/log/messages. whereas, for someone on this forum, it showed some results. http://codepad.org/xSet442t
[19:06:16] <joe9> i emailed the rtai mailing list about it, too.
[19:08:05] <cradek> that was me if you mean this irc channel (not forum?)
[19:09:41] <joe9> cradek, yes, I think it was you.
[19:11:00] <joe9> cradek: did not mean to be disrespectful there.
[19:11:16] <cradek> nah np
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[19:28:17] <ssi> cradek: do you recall any of the details about how you dealt with limit switches on your machine?
[19:28:20] <ssi> the hnc I mean
[19:30:22] <cradek> can you ask a more specific question?
[19:30:43] <ssi> sure, a few
[19:30:52] <cradek> (the strict answer to your question is surely "yes")
[19:30:53] <ssi> the only one I've gotten "working" so far is the spindle interlock
[19:31:00] <ssi> and it seems to sink when active
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[19:31:10] <cradek> I think that's just a mechanical switch, not a prox
[19:31:23] <ssi> so if I connect it to a pulled-up gpio pin, when the interlock pin is pressed in, I get a low
[19:31:26] <cradek> you mean the pin with the knob on the front?
[19:31:27] <ssi> yeah you may be right
[19:31:28] <ssi> yeah
[19:31:34] <cradek> yeah that's a switch
[19:31:39] <ssi> ok
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[19:31:50] <ssi> so the axis limits are a bit tougher
[19:31:56] <ssi> because I don't have any way of knowing when I'm over them
[19:31:58] <JT-Shop> mine is a micro switch under the cover
[19:32:07] <ssi> I don't know how to feed them,
[19:32:09] <cradek> yeah limits and homes are all proxes
[19:32:10] <ssi> what I'll get out of them,
[19:32:11] <ssi> anything
[19:32:21] <ssi> so I have 12v on the + side of the +Z limit
[19:32:22] <cradek> you can see at least the Z limit switches, you oughta know very well when you're over them
[19:32:34] <ssi> can you?
[19:32:41] <ssi> the silver threaded discs on the back of the bed?
[19:32:41] <cradek> yeah look on the back of the bed
[19:32:56] <cradek> yeah I bet that's what you're seeing
[19:33:05] <cradek> there should be a metal thingy that gets close to them as it goes over
[19:33:07] <ssi> so anyway, if I feed them +12v, what will the signal out do?
[19:33:13] <ssi> source or sink?
[19:33:19] <cradek> you've noticed they have three wires, right?
[19:33:24] <ssi> yes
[19:33:33] <ssi> so I've got +12V and ground on either side of them
[19:33:38] <ssi> and the signal line coming out is....
[19:33:39] <cradek> I don't remember if it sources or sinks. probably sinks.
[19:33:44] <ssi> I'm hoping sink
[19:33:46] <cradek> one or the other! :-)
[19:33:50] <ssi> cause if it sources, I'll have to divide it or something
[19:33:59] <cradek> use a multimeter and test it
[19:34:13] <ssi> well that's what I was trying to do
[19:34:13] <cradek> signal wire to gnd, signal wire to +12, one of them will give you something
[19:34:26] <ssi> but I ran it across the whole bed (by hand with a damn allen wrench)
[19:34:28] <ssi> and it did nothing
[19:34:40] <cradek> maybe your metal thingy is missing
[19:34:42] <JT-Shop> put a quarter over the switch
[19:34:43] <ssi> maybe
[19:34:48] <cradek> can you see something that obviously triggers them?
[19:34:54] <cradek> yeah or wave pliers at it or something
[19:34:58] <ssi> I'll have to look at it again tonight
[19:35:01] <ssi> also, for what it's worth
[19:35:08] <ssi> the spindle interlock switch may be mechanical,
[19:35:10] <ssi> but it's three wire
[19:35:20] <ssi> at least it is on the drawing
[19:35:25] <ssi> I haven't looked at the physical switch
[19:35:34] <cradek> I can't say why they wired it that way, but it's mechanical :-)
[19:35:40] <JT-Shop> single pole with N/O and N/C contacts
[19:35:46] <ssi> I see
[19:36:03] <ssi> JT-Shop: well it's wired as having 12V on one side and 0V on the other, with a signal coming out
[19:36:06] <ssi> same as the limits
[19:36:11] <cradek> I cringe at the thought of traversing the whole bed with an allen wrench that can't turn all the way around!
[19:36:17] <JT-Shop> does yours have a cover on the X axis on the side away from the spindle?
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[19:36:22] <ssi> cradek: yeah it wasn't fun
[19:36:28] <ssi> JT-Shop: like a sheetmetal cover? yes
[19:36:40] <JT-Shop> take that off to see the X axis limits
[19:36:44] <ssi> ok
[19:36:49] <ssi> alright next question
[19:36:54] <ssi> how did you deal with the coarse/fine home switches
[19:37:16] <JT-Shop> seems to me I ignored one of them
[19:37:41] <cradek> I used the fine home switch as index mask on the mesa, and made sure that one of the resolver's indexes happened while fine-home was triggered
[19:38:02] <cradek> there are WAY too many indexes with the geared resolvers - you must use the fine home switch to select one
[19:38:18] <cradek> are you using 7i49?
[19:38:24] <ssi> so your homing procedure seeks for the coarse home, then seeks negative for the fine home + resolver index?
[19:38:27] <ssi> yes
[19:38:38] <JT-Shop> yea, mine is different and has encoders
[19:38:54] <cradek> wonder if there's something like index-mask for the resolver index emulation
[19:39:30] <cradek> I forget which way it seeks, but the idea is that it selects one particular index per screw rotation, instead of having 6 or 8 of them or whatever it is
[19:39:43] <ssi> right
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[19:39:44] <cradek> that's the whole point of the fine-home prox
[19:40:07] <ssi> and is that prox on the screw itself?
[19:40:15] <ssi> so you'll see that signal light up once per rev?
[19:40:23] <ssi> like, no matter where in the travel it is
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[19:41:32] <cradek> yes once per rev. it's on the big pulley that's attached to the screw
[19:41:44] <ssi> gotcha
[19:41:54] <cradek> you'll have to mess with your sin/cos/+/- to make an index happen while it's on
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[19:42:07] <ssi> so yeah, when I get to that phase, I'm definitely going to need some help figuring out what to do in hal to make homing work
[19:42:14] <ssi> I'm hoping I'll be ready for that this weekend
[19:42:27] <cradek> index mask is done in hardware, not much hal to do
[19:42:45] <ssi> I don't think the 49 has the ability to do that
[19:43:09] <cradek> uh-oh!
[19:43:14] <ssi> can you not do some boolean logic in hal to synthesize it?
[19:43:44] <cradek> you could AND the two home switches, but you'll probably overshoot and get messed up
[19:43:57] <cradek> or complain to your hardware vendor until you get index mask :-)
[19:44:17] <ssi> I was thinking AND the resolver index signal and the fine limit
[19:44:41] <cradek> the resolver index signal doesn't exist in hardware
[19:44:46] <ssi> yeah I know!
[19:44:55] <ssi> so that's why I'm confused about it being a hardware thing
[19:45:00] <ssi> the index is synthesized by the hal driver, yes?
[19:45:09] <ssi> or in the '49's firmware
[19:45:10] <ssi> or something
[19:45:17] <cradek> it doesn't exist in hal to be anded, either
[19:45:21] <cradek> here's how index works
[19:45:46] <ssi> fwiw, I see nothing in the 7i49 manual about index
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[19:45:57] <cradek> hal tells the encoder driver "next time you see an index, reset your count and then remember you saw it, I'll ask again later"
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[19:46:16] <cradek> then every servo cycle you can check the driver state
[19:46:19] <ssi> I see
[19:46:31] <cradek> if it saw an index since last time, you get that fact AND the new count that has happened since the reset
[19:46:43] <ssi> and it calculates position based on that?
[19:47:04] <ssi> is it possible to spin an encoder fast enough that it sees multiple indexes per servo cycle?
[19:47:09] <cradek> notice that the index probably happens between servo cycles
[19:47:17] <ssi> sure
[19:47:23] <cradek> sure, and if it does it will *still work*
[19:47:33] <ssi> ok so the driver counts how many indices it's seen as well
[19:47:36] <cradek> because you'll get "I saw index!" and the new count, which would be greater than one rev
[19:47:43] <ssi> ohh gotcha
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[19:47:56] <ssi> it only resets when hal says "ok I copy that you saw an index"
[19:48:01] <cradek> that's why index mask must be done in hardware/firmware
[19:48:06] <ssi> yeah I'm with you
[19:48:39] <cradek> otherwise you'd have to move no faster than one encoder count per servo cycle and look carefully for the index signal, hoping it'd be there one cycle
[19:48:53] <cradek> and that's doomed to work very badly
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[19:49:53] <ssi> yeah
[19:50:19] <ssi> so is that more at the bitfile level (ie should I bug Peter) or at the resolver driver level (ie should I bug andy)
[19:50:50] <cradek> bitfile
[19:51:12] <cradek> pretty sure it has to be done there
[19:51:19] <ssi> and how do you do the mask?
[19:51:35] <ssi> would the '49 actually need a gpio pin for the limit?
[19:51:52] <ssi> or can it somehow attach to another gpio pin from the 5i host
[19:51:53] <cradek> hook your fine-home prox to wherever the firmware wants to find it
[19:52:03] <ssi> yeah ok I gotcha
[19:52:52] <cradek> it doesn't have to be on the 49, but it does have to be a 5ixx input line somewhere
[19:53:04] <ssi> sure
[19:53:08] <cradek> probably it will be a certain fixed input you'll have to enable and wire to
[19:53:09] <PCW> I dont think is really practical to do it in the 7I49 firmware But because of the absolute nature of the resolver interface I doubt its needed
[19:53:37] <ssi> PCW: well without it I'm not sure it's possible to home to a repeatable place
[19:53:48] <cradek> ahhh maybe I missed something because it's absolute
[19:54:00] <PCW> No problem the resolver is absolute
[19:54:02] <cradek> I'll let wiser folks take over the thought experiment
[19:54:06] <ssi> oh wait I think I see what you mean
[19:54:28] <ssi> ...maybe I don't
[19:54:46] <ssi> so how do the indexes work in the resolver firmware
[19:55:02] <PCW> just dont go faster than 1/2 resolver cycle per servo thread invocation
[19:55:23] <ssi> is there an easy way to figure out what that speed is?
[19:55:37] <ssi> my scale is 0.02... how do I correlate that to what the resolvers are actually doing
[19:56:04] -!- kent__ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[19:56:04] <PCW> 20 mills per electrical turn
[19:56:05] <alex_joni> 1 resolver cycle = 1 turn
[19:56:23] <alex_joni> so you don't want to go faster than 0.01/sec
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[19:56:32] <ssi> so 50 resolver turns per linear inch?
[19:57:02] <PCW> so if you are no homing at more than 10 IPS you should be fine (+- index code bugs)
[19:57:29] <ssi> and by that you mean I don't need the fine home signal at all?
[19:57:42] <ssi> ie seek to coarse home prox, and then reverse to find the next resolver index
[19:57:43] <PCW> alex_joni is correct for a 1Hz servo thread
[19:57:44] <ssi> and all will be well?
[19:58:11] <PCW> assuming Andys index code works...
[19:58:21] <cradek> is your prox trigger repeatable to .01? surely not
[19:58:32] <ssi> cradek: yeah that's my concern!
[19:58:34] <cradek> remember you have A LOT of indexes
[19:59:24] <PCW> you can gate the setting of index enable with whatever you've got
[19:59:30] <ssi> PCW: how?
[19:59:34] <ssi> oh
[19:59:36] <ssi> in hal
[19:59:36] <PCW> in hal
[19:59:38] <ssi> yeah ok
[20:00:08] <ssi> so it'll be a combination of gating index-enable and going slow to avoid overshoot
[20:00:18] <cradek> you're saying AND them - that's not ideal because you get a tiny tiny home switch
[20:00:31] <cradek> but yeah if you go slow enough it'll work I guess
[20:00:42] <ssi> ie I have to make sure that I set enable when I see the fine prox, and in time for teh next servo cycle to see the index in the resolver driver
[20:01:02] <cradek> you don't set index-enable, motion does when it wants to seek index
[20:01:28] <ssi> sure, but it's the same thing
[20:01:38] <ssi> somehow I gate that with the fine prox
[20:01:42] <ssi> and then it's just race condition
[20:01:50] <ssi> did I gate it quickly enough to catch the index
[20:01:55] <cradek> hm maybe you could do index-mask in hal, but you have to deal with index-enable's bidirectionalness with a custom component
[20:02:04] <cradek> ... I think
[20:02:59] <PCW> I may be that could be added to the driver driver
[20:03:09] <PCW> sorry resolver driver
[20:03:41] <cradek> yeah maybe?
[20:04:33] <PCW> since the index logic is all in the driver anyway
[20:05:04] <ssi> you mean the hal-side driver, not the firmware, yeah?
[20:05:19] <PCW> yes hal driver
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[20:08:47] <mrsun> hmm, i wonder how to solve the milling of my motor mounts .. casted pieces with draft angles on all sides, i want the top side flat, and the two end sides flat against eachother, most critical is the end pieces (the one that goes against the table and the one against the stepper motor) i guess i should start with those ? =)
[20:10:09] <mrsun> if im smart i start with the front side, cause it will have two holes for two bolts, then i can use those to bolt it down to the table, that is hopefully perfectly aligned to the spindle to have the other side perfectly square against it =)
[20:15:15] <mrsun> but then again, it would be nice to have the backside milled first so i can align holes on both sides against that plane surface ...
[20:15:16] <mrsun> hmm
[20:30:13] <JT-Shop> one error that seems to be missing is "I don't have a clue what you want me to do on line 43"
[20:32:54] <alex_joni> any sailers in here?
[20:33:15] * Jymmm steps away from alex_joni
[20:33:18] <alex_joni> how do you call those elastic thingies you put alongside of the boat so it doesn't bump the port?
[20:33:28] <alex_joni> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Dlo_in_the_Friuli.JPG
[20:33:29] <Jymmm> bumpers?
[20:33:33] <alex_joni> like on the left boat
[20:33:53] <Jymmm> potunes? (sp)
[20:33:56] <alex_joni> boat dock fenders
[20:34:02] <Jymmm> pontunes
[20:34:13] <JT-Shop> yea
[20:34:19] <alex_joni> pontunes are the docks you walk on
[20:34:22] <JT-Shop> fenders
[20:34:24] <Jymmm> boat fenders
[20:34:31] <Jymmm> dock bumpers
[20:34:56] <alex_joni> thanks
[20:34:57] <Jymmm> http://www.cabelas.com/boat-fenders-and-dock-bumpers.shtml
[20:35:06] <Jymmm> ah pontoon
[20:35:23] <Jymmm> spare tire
[20:35:43] <Jymmm> hull fender
[20:36:16] <Jymmm> rubber baby buggy bumpers
[20:36:50] <Jymmm> boat fender seems to be the right term
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[20:44:00] <ssi> I wonder what kind of current I have to sink to run the turret solenoids
[20:44:03] <ssi> I might need relays to do that
[20:46:28] <skunkworks> opto22's ;)
[20:46:38] <ssi> don't want to have to do all that for two relays :)
[20:47:27] <skunkworks> I have not had an opto22 relay fail yet. Knock on wood
[20:48:14] <tehDarkAura> i got some tyco ssr's off ebay -- those are nice too found them to be cheaper at the time
[20:49:53] <JT-Shop> ssi: you don't have ssr's in your panel to turn on the solenoids?
[20:50:05] <ssi> JT-Shop: there are SSRs for a bunch of stuff, but not the turret solenoids
[20:50:11] <ssi> the SSRs all switch AC loads
[20:50:14] <ssi> the solenoids are 12V
[20:50:21] <ssi> I think the original control had some relays to run those
[20:50:35] <JT-Shop> ok
[20:50:39] <ssi> so I may move a pair of those old relays into the interface box and wire them to the solenoids
[20:50:40] <tehDarkAura> dc works fine in there too
[20:50:56] <ssi> if the SSRs will switch DC no problem, I can use them
[20:50:59] <ssi> because I have some extras
[20:51:12] <ssi> I'm not using the SSRs for coolant, spindle forward/reverse
[20:51:15] <ssi> so that frees up three of them
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[20:53:30] <ssi> and did we ever figure out what the spindle encoder is for?
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[20:58:49] <djdelorie> perhaps for RPM measurement?
[21:01:16] <ssi> resolver should be able to do that
[21:04:30] <cradek> I bet djdelorie is right. remember, no cpu in sight. resolvers are hooked to very specialized hardware and are position mode devices.
[21:04:53] <cradek> on the other hand, f-to-v is trivial
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[21:04:57] <cradek> it was a varispeed system
[21:05:20] <cradek> or if you really want to know, look at the schematics :-)
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[21:05:32] <ssi> I'm looking at the schematics :P
[21:05:44] <djdelorie> the rx61t app notes show how to use quadrature input for speed and position, not just position, made me think "more accurate RPM"
[21:05:50] <djdelorie> er, rx62t
[21:06:03] <ssi> but yeah, that makes sense
[21:06:09] <ssi> I assume I can ignore the encoder completely
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[21:30:44] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:35:32] <skunkworks> The k&t only had a pickup on one of the gears. used just to make sure the spindle was spinning below a certain rpm befor shifting
[21:35:42] <skunkworks> Coil style
[21:37:07] <ssi> yea I'm feeling like the encoder was for the varivpeed
[21:37:11] <ssi> varispeed even
[21:37:28] <ssi> and I'm going to ignore it and use just the spindle resolver
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[23:20:57] <JT-Shop> SHIT! all the files are gone on the Hardine :/
[23:24:29] <JT-Shop> Hardinge
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[23:27:00] <Tom_itx> how'd that happen?
[23:27:07] <Tom_itx> seems you've had quite a day today
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[23:29:32] <JT-Shop> dunno, started having issues with it and when I came back it is borked
[23:30:52] <JT-Shop> had an infinite loop in a subroutine and it went down hill from there :/
[23:32:30] <PCW> bad filesystem?
[23:32:57] <PCW> hard drive failure?
[23:33:01] <JT-Shop> pretty new hardware, only about a year or so old
[23:33:23] <JT-Shop> is there a way to do a HD check in Ubuntu?
[23:33:36] <JT-Shop> like scandisk in windblows
[23:33:39] <PCW> maybe the SMART stuff
[23:33:48] <tehDarkAura> chkdsk?
[23:34:14] <PCW> SMART logs any hardware disk errors
[23:34:32] <tehDarkAura> ahh my bad
[23:34:34] <tehDarkAura> Linux and Unix do not have a program called chkdsk. It is called fsck.
[23:34:35] <JT-Shop> yea, SWPadnos mentioned that before
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[23:36:11] <PCW> does it boot far enough to try fsck?
[23:37:02] <tehDarkAura> its better to run off a cd anyways i belive
[23:37:06] <JT-Shop> yea, SMART shows some errors... checking now
[23:37:17] <tehDarkAura> if you have a live cd /usb
[23:37:55] <JT-Shop> well the good news is Andy's boat is back in 3rd place
[23:38:30] <PCW> yeah if you are trying to recover config files and minimize usage of (possibly on last legs) disk
[23:38:57] <PCW> whats the race tracking site?
[23:39:39] <JT-Shop> http://www.clipperroundtheworld.com/index.php/follow/race-viewer/
[23:39:53] <PCW> Thanks
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[23:41:09] <JT-Shop> can't you force a drive check somehow on boot up?
[23:41:36] <alex_joni> it should get started automatically if it's not shut down correctly
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[23:41:52] <PCW> whats the symptom?
[23:41:52] <alex_joni> e.g. if you've power cycled the PC
[23:42:12] <alex_joni> but I doubt any infinite loop can cause a HDD failure
[23:44:29] <JT-Shop> SMART says I have bad sectors and some file are missing
[23:47:58] <Jymmm> Gat another hdd and dump the data over ASAP.
[23:49:05] <Jymmm> bad sectors are like cockroaches, where there is a couple, there are hundreds more soon on the way.
[23:52:42] <JT-Shop> ok
[23:53:10] <JT-Shop> sdfaetjerjfjmc fqw[tr fasdfljq qwefajf QWEPRJF FJASDLFJ adlfjqa ftqerjf !
[23:53:39] <Jymmm> what was that JT-Shop?
[23:54:12] <JT-Shop> a bit confused I think
[23:54:22] <Jymmm> you or the computer?
[23:54:31] <JT-Shop> yea
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[23:55:45] <JT-Shop> seems I only lost a few subs and such
[23:56:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: It's best not todo anything else on that computer hdd and get a replacement going ASAP
[23:56:40] <JT-Shop> nothing the Talking Heads can't fix
[23:56:48] <JT-Shop> looking
[23:56:57] <JT-Shop> And She Was
[23:58:00] <JT-Shop> it's been a bit flaky for a bit and shutting down for no reason
[23:58:40] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: When I say ASAP, I mean within the next couple of hours, not days
[23:59:04] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: any magic words to make my 84 year old MIL turn over her drivers license without having to put her in a headlock
[23:59:15] <JT-Shop> dunno if I have one that fits
[23:59:33] <Jymmm> Stop making the computer write to the hdd, stop overworking the hdd at this point till you have a backup.
[23:59:34] <JT-Shop> damm doctors have to play GOD!
[23:59:51] <Jymmm> drivers license?
[23:59:54] <JT-Shop> I've backed up it all