#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-03-31

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[02:29:18] <Jordan__> would a scissor jack work for z axis?
[02:31:23] <KimK> Yes, it would go up and down; No, it would be non-linear with regard to distance per shaft rotation. That's probably no help to you at all, though?
[02:31:47] <KimK> Maybe you could compensate for it in "kins", but I don't think I'd bother.
[02:31:50] <Jordan__> well is there a formula to us
[02:32:13] <Jordan__> if it isn't linear
[02:32:18] <KimK> How would you make it zero-play?
[02:32:39] <Jordan__> You mean the stage or the z movement
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[02:32:58] <KimK> The overall Z travel/position
[02:33:01] <Jordan__> z would be all in one direction
[02:33:17] <KimK> Not if you're doing any cutting. Is this a laser?
[02:33:54] <Jordan__> no
[02:33:57] <Jordan__> 3d printer
[02:34:05] <Jordan__> there is no force on it
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[02:34:36] <KimK> Oh, OK, well, if it's never a "rough ride", maybe it would be OK?
[02:35:11] <Jordan__> nah i don't like the non linear
[02:35:16] <Jordan__> i think of something else
[02:35:21] <KimK> Wait, if there's no force, why do you need a scissor jack to begin with?
[02:35:51] <Jordan__> what do you mean
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[02:36:44] <KimK> Well, people usually select a scissor jack when they need a mechanical advantage (over a heavy weight that wants to fall).
[02:37:37] <Jordan__> yea well the current system uses two threaded rods and two motors
[02:37:38] <KimK> (And they need it to be self-locking in position)
[02:37:56] <Jordan__> all it does is lower is lift 1 layer at a time about .1mm
[02:38:02] <KimK> Ah, excellent, a gantry system. Often a wise choice.
[02:38:24] <Jordan__> you like two rods & motors
[02:39:16] <Jordan__> trying to get out of a second motor
[02:40:00] <KimK> Yes, I do. It makes motion easier over whatever is serving as ways/rails/tracks/whatever. Rather than forcing one side and hoping the other one slides freely. It never does.
[02:40:18] <Jordan__> i see
[02:41:05] <Jordan__> what about a single z line and it has kind of L on the top for x/y
[02:41:06] <KimK> Well, I shouldn't say that. Maybe I should say, it may or may not slide freely enough for your purposes.
[02:41:48] <Jordan__> well if a second is good that's fine with me
[02:42:26] <Jordan__> well not L, its one line for x one y slides on x
[02:42:37] <Jordan__> xy slide on z
[02:42:37] <KimK> I shouldn't be discouraging you, maybe you will find a new, efficient, and simple design.
[02:43:22] <Jordan__> do you think a free floating overhand is bad idea or should go with bridge?
[02:43:35] <Jordan__> overhang*
[02:44:33] <Jordan__> i definitely came up with something unique
[02:45:04] <Jordan__> i should say unique everything has already been thought of but i haven't seen it yet
[02:45:13] <Jordan__> shouldn't*
[02:45:46] <Jordan__> hard to compete with 6Billion people
[02:46:01] <KimK> You mean that Z carries the entire X/Y carriage assembly, and lifts it as it builds the "pile"? That's an interesting idea. But I don't look at reprap much, so I can't say if anyone has done that before.
[02:46:04] <ssi> good thing it's not a competition :)
[02:46:37] <Jordan__> that's true
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[02:47:18] <ssi> KimK: btw thank you for the resolver driver :D
[02:47:23] <KimK> There may be some tilt/slope as X/Y hangs there, but at least it should be relatively constant. Well, except for the head moving around, however much that affects it.
[02:47:33] <Jordan__> well i don't care if they've done it i'm wondering if there is going to be tilt as you say
[02:48:08] <Jordan__> it's going to be 250mm high, y has to be 200mm but only move 100mm, and x only move 100mm
[02:48:09] <KimK> ssi: Thank Andy, he did everything on it so far. I'd like to develop it further, though.
[02:48:14] <ssi> Jordan__: have you seen the way that people use tensioned cables to slave a side without a motor?
[02:48:23] <ssi> KimK: I would like to thank Andy, but he's out playing sea captain
[02:49:03] <Jordan__> yea i'm going to try to make the head as light as possible
[02:49:09] <KimK> ssi: Ha, yes, that's right, any word from the "Derry-Londonderry"?
[02:49:19] <Jordan__> but kimK it is only 100mm movement in x/y
[02:49:25] <Jordan__> the overhang has to be 200mm
[02:49:36] <ssi> KimK: we were kicking around ideas on how to do gated index (my machine has like 5 resolver cycles per screw rev, and there's a fine home prox-switch on the screw)
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[02:49:49] <ssi> KimK: no, I'm not up to date on what's happening in the race
[02:50:20] <Jordan__> KimK is this a dumb idea is what i'd like to know or should i make a bridge
[02:50:30] <ssi> KimK: we were thinking it could maybe be handled in the resolver driver. I have been looking at the source but so far I don't have a full enough understanding of how it all works to be useful :/
[02:51:12] <ssi> Jordan__: gantry is a tried and true method, and slaving a second motor is usually cheaper and easier than trying to slave it mechanically
[02:51:36] <KimK> Jordan__: As you do your calculations, try (just for an experiment) adding an "opposite side" to the Z lifter, I think you'll be amazed at the improvement in "droop". As in one of those horizontal-section lifting-bridges to let ships underneath.
[02:51:51] <ssi> what if you had like a four post arrangement, where the posts are screws
[02:52:02] <ssi> and you put sprockets at the top or bottom, and run a chain around all of them
[02:52:14] <Jordan__> interesting
[02:52:20] <ssi> then you can drive one screw and it lifts the whole X/Y assembly
[02:52:24] <Jordan__> but i was trying to get out of the bridge
[02:52:44] <ssi> or maybe it just drives the TABLE
[02:52:47] <ssi> and the X/Y is fixed
[02:52:50] <Jordan__> i can make it much smaller without the bridge
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[02:53:44] <ssi> Evening pcw
[02:53:48] <Jordan__> but ssi why would i do four i could do that with two
[02:54:00] <ssi> Jordan__: fore/aft stability?
[02:54:00] <Jordan__> KimK, probably will
[02:54:27] <Jordan__> that should be fine
[02:55:07] <Jordan__> but my bet is a second motor may be cheaper
[02:55:25] <ssi> probably so
[02:55:36] <ssi> when I built my plasma table, I thought about all sorts of ways to try to slave the other side of the gantry
[02:55:44] <ssi> and at the end of the day slaving a second $40 motor is MUCH easier
[02:55:55] <Jordan__> yup
[02:56:32] <Jordan__> a belt and pulleys would be way more than the $7 motors
[02:56:35] <Jordan__> i'm using
[02:57:17] <Jordan__> the only way is if it isn't a bridge at all
[02:57:57] <Jordan__> it is only moving 100mm in x and y
[02:58:20] <Jordan__> but the x line goes out 200mm
[02:59:03] <Jordan__> 100mm is a little less than 4"
[02:59:13] <Jordan__> i mean come on that's not a lot
[02:59:55] <Jordan__> yea i'm not going to do bridge i have other plans ;) for stability
[03:00:10] <KimK> ssi: I don't think you need to do anything special except include both switches in series (they're normally-open, right?). So that both switches must be on to find home. "The first blade shaves you close, the second blade shaves you even closer". Oh crap, now they have five blades. Nevermind.
[03:02:08] <KimK> ssi: OK, wait, your coarse-home switch would have to go on only in a limited area (off on both sides) which means if it doesn't find home it will hunt all the way to the end if you don't stop it. OK, maybe that's not the best.
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[03:04:55] <Jordan__> what's a plasma table
[03:07:09] <Jordan__> KimK, would it be better to move the bed down or head up?
[03:07:16] <KimK> ssi: There is a special function for resolver that would solve your problem that I would like to add. Hang in there, it will happen eventually.
[03:07:34] <Jordan__> basically would it be better to fix the z on the bottom or the overhang
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[03:09:15] <KimK> Jordan__: Since your X/Y travels are so small (and I'm guessing your Z travel is in the same range) maybe no big deal? What is the smallest filament you plan to extrude?
[03:09:28] <Jordan__> 3mm
[03:09:41] <Jordan__> well that doesn't matter
[03:09:48] <Jordan__> the z needs to go 200mm
[03:10:02] <Jordan__> the filament isn't really an issue
[03:10:12] <Jordan__> you mean the layer height
[03:10:19] <KimK> OK so you are making relatively "tall" objects?
[03:10:24] <Jordan__> i think that is typically .1mm
[03:10:27] <Jordan__> maybe
[03:11:05] <Jordan__> but in general would it be better to move bed down or head up
[03:11:23] <KimK> Oh? You can extrude a 3mm filament with only a 0.1mm step rise? That seems odd, have I got it wrong?
[03:12:15] <Jordan__> the filament is 3mm, but it comes out of a .5mm nozzle
[03:12:32] <KimK> Oh, I see. And the step rise?
[03:13:15] <Jordan__> i'm not sure but i thought for the outer edges of object it uses a smaller step like .1mm and the inner like .3mm
[03:13:19] <djdelorie> the nozzle points down, the diameter of the hole is independent of the thickness of the ribbon it extrudes
[03:13:40] <djdelorie> the diameter determines the *width* of the ribbon, not its thickness
[03:13:46] <Jordan__> anyway back to my question
[03:14:30] <KimK> djdelorie: OK, thanks. I don't completely follow, but I haven't done anything with reprap.
[03:14:37] <Jordan__> my gut says to move the bed down
[03:15:01] <Jordan__> but most the others move the nozzle up
[03:15:40] <KimK> Jordan__: You may be right, the plastic (plus heated table?) should be much lighter than the X/Y carriage assembly.
[03:16:18] <Jordan__> yea but i was planning to move the extruder off of it
[03:16:32] <djdelorie> KimK: imagine a 10mm nozzle 1mm above a surface, aiming down. As it moves *sideways*, it leaves a ribbon of goo 10mm wide and 1mm thick
[03:16:36] <Jordan__> so it would be pretty light hot end on the top
[03:16:52] <djdelorie> much like a paintbrush can be 3" wide but doesn't leave paint 3" thick
[03:17:05] <Jordan__> So the factor is which is lighter to move
[03:17:32] <ssi> KimK: right now I'm doing it with a set/reset flipflop... seeing both home switches sets it, and the coarse home going low resets it
[03:17:47] <ssi> KimK: it's working ok for now, but I think a gated index might be the way to go for the future
[03:19:07] <Jordan__> but it would also have 2 motors on top
[03:19:32] <ssi> Jordan__: plasma table is a CNC machine with a plasma cutter on the head
[03:19:37] <Jordan__> i'm kind of torn maybe ill see which i could do smaller
[03:19:42] <ssi> Jordan__: not terribly unlike what you're trying to do, but much bigger :)
[03:20:03] <ssi> mine is a 54x54" table with a gantry
[03:20:11] <ssi> I have about 48x42" working area
[03:20:31] <Jordan__> that would make one hell of a reprap
[03:20:57] <ssi> perhaps it would :)
[03:21:05] <KimK> djdelorie: Ah, OK, "...like a paintbrush can be 3" wide but doesn't leave paint 3" thick...", thanks, that helps a lot.
[03:21:06] <ssi> I don't think it's precise enough to be honest
[03:21:15] <Jordan__> you could print out buildings with that
[03:21:27] <Jordan__> well maybe tree houses
[03:22:33] <Jordan__> actually more like dog houses
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[03:22:44] <ssi> hehehe
[03:23:07] <ssi> my machine wouldn't be great as a reprap because it's only got 3" or so of Z travel
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[03:23:11] <Jordan__> i can only print out bird houses
[03:23:21] <djdelorie> or really big gears
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[03:23:30] <Jordan__> i see
[03:23:34] <ssi> yeah I could make a hell of a plastic planetary gearset :D
[03:24:09] <ssi> I want to add a plate marker and/or drill head to my plasma table
[03:24:15] <ssi> biggest problem with plasma is small holes
[03:24:32] <Jordan__> is plasma for cutting metal
[03:24:33] <ssi> if I had a plate marker, I could sorta centerpunch all the drill locations
[03:24:35] <ssi> yeah
[03:24:41] <Jordan__> what about laser
[03:24:51] <ssi> laser that'll cut metal is $$$$$$
[03:25:13] <djdelorie> plasme that'll cut metal is like "well, duh"
[03:25:17] <ssi> yeah :)
[03:25:28] <KimK> So, back to Jordan__'s question... If the finest step you wanted was 0.1mm (~0.004"), and the tilt/slope/mismatch/error was +/-0.01mm (~0.0004"), that would be +/- 10%, would that be OK (good enough)?
[03:25:28] <ssi> plasma won't cut anything but metal
[03:26:27] * KimK is just trying to find a "ball-park" figure
[03:26:31] <Jordan__> KimK i'll be using g2 5/8-4 drive screws
[03:26:46] <ssi> g2?
[03:26:49] <Jordan__> by g&g manufactoring i think
[03:27:02] <Jordan__> g2 is a quality lowest general
[03:27:13] <ssi> what kind of screw is it
[03:27:15] <ssi> acme? ballscrew?
[03:27:25] <KimK> 4 TPI?
[03:27:25] <Jordan__> acme
[03:27:29] <Jordan__> yeea
[03:27:46] <KimK> You might be better off with 1/2-20 allthread?
[03:28:04] <ssi> better off with allthread?!
[03:28:13] <Jordan__> why?
[03:28:18] <Jordan__> you know how slow that would be
[03:28:29] <KimK> Over a 4 TPI acme? Yeah, maybe.
[03:28:36] <ssi> Jordan__: well speed isn't everything, you gotta take into account your minimum step size
[03:28:45] <ssi> most steppers are what, 1.8deg/step?
[03:28:55] <Jordan__> yes 200 steps
[03:28:56] <ssi> 200 step/inch
[03:29:03] <Jordan__> and there are 1/16 micro steps
[03:29:09] <ssi> forget micro steps
[03:29:17] <KimK> You only have to rapid at the end, right? And during set-up?
[03:29:45] <ssi> so your inch is 800 steps
[03:29:46] <Jordan__> the normal repraps run about 80mm/sec
[03:29:58] <ssi> which makes your minimum positioning accuracy like 0.0012
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[03:30:23] <Jordan__> it has to be 4tpi to get anywhere near that fast
[03:30:47] <Jordan__> some run 250mm/s
[03:30:59] <ssi> 80mm/s isn't infeasible with a 10tpi screw I don't think
[03:31:13] <ssi> and the really fast ones are probably belt driven rather than screw driven
[03:31:17] <Jordan__> no the motor max you want to run is 15rps
[03:31:25] <djdelorie> I'm getting almost that with a 16tpi screw
[03:31:47] <Jordan__> well the motor i'm using won't be able to do that it's $7
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[03:31:58] <ssi> I made the mistake of trying to build a machine once with 2tpi, 5 start screws
[03:31:59] <ssi> it was FAST
[03:32:01] <djdelorie> mine is more than that, and takes up to 160 volts...
[03:32:02] <ssi> but imprecise as hell
[03:32:07] <KimK> You can only rely on microsteps for positioning accuracy to about the half-step level. Even quarter-steps get iffy. Beyond quarter-steps, it's a coin toss. Although steps up to about 10, 12, 16, even sometimes 20 can be good for smoothness, anti-resonance, etc.
[03:32:39] <Jordan__> yea i think they recommneded that for smoothness
[03:32:50] <djdelorie> my motors are effectively 333 microsteps, but I have an encoder to keep the position where it's supposed to be
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[03:33:21] <Jordan__> i have to use 4tpi
[03:33:29] <Jordan__> i think it will be fine
[03:33:32] <ssi> I think you'll be unhappy with the precision of the parts you can make
[03:33:40] <KimK> Jordan__: OK, then 4 TPI it is.
[03:33:52] <ssi> why is 80mm/s a requirement, btw?
[03:33:53] <Jordan__> really
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[03:34:03] <Jordan__> it's not but i don't want that sllow
[03:34:14] <ssi> maybe not... I don't really know what the precision requirements for 3d printed parts are
[03:34:17] <KimK> Maybe you can use a timing belt and gear your screw down?
[03:34:23] <Jordan__> 4 tpi is 800 steps an inch
[03:34:29] <Jordan__> how is that imprecise?
[03:34:36] <KimK> s/a timing belt/some timing belts/
[03:34:36] <ssi> that's 1.25 thousandths per step
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[03:34:59] <Jordan__> ssi that good
[03:35:10] <Jordan__> KimK, i don't want to add more costs
[03:35:15] <Jordan__> the screw is the drive
[03:35:16] <ssi> even my plasma table has better precision than that, and it's rack drive
[03:35:30] <Jordan__> ssi this is a 3d printer
[03:35:40] <Jordan__> it squirts goo out
[03:35:42] <KimK> Jordan__: OK, but you were saying earlier that you wanted to step in layers of 0.1mm (~0.004")?
[03:35:46] <Jordan__> it doesn't have to be that precice
[03:35:48] <ssi> well that's fine then
[03:36:05] <ssi> seems like it'd need to be more precise, but I've never worked with one
[03:36:51] <Jordan__> KimK, .00124 is less than .004
[03:37:26] <Jordan__> and half steps would double that too KimK
[03:37:47] <Jordan__> to 1600 steps/inch
[03:38:12] <Jordan__> but i think it will be running in 1/16 steps
[03:38:19] <KimK> Jordan__: What if you were printing, and you found that 0.1mm (0.1000mm) was too thick? What would you want as the next available choice? 0.09mm? 0.099mm? 0.0999mm?
[03:38:57] <KimK> s/too thick/too much/
[03:39:39] <Jordan__> wouldn't a drive screw be much more precise than a belt and pulley
[03:39:49] <Jordan__> even at 4tpi
[03:39:57] <ssi> not necessarily
[03:40:05] <ssi> timing belts are quite precise
[03:40:14] <djdelorie> ha!
[03:40:28] <ssi> ha!
[03:40:33] <ssi> :'(
[03:40:43] <djdelorie> they're OK if you get all the slop out and tension them just right...
[03:40:46] <Jordan__> yea but it is probably 1 inch diameter, for one rotation so yea
[03:40:55] <Jordan__> 200 steps/inch
[03:41:09] <Jordan__> much less than 800steps/inch in a 4tpi drive screw
[03:41:35] <djdelorie> no, 1 inch circumfrence, not diameter. That's about 0.32 inch diameter
[03:41:36] <Jordan__> not diameter, perimeter
[03:41:48] <Jordan__> yea sorry
[03:42:27] <Jordan__> so is this matter settled or is there something i should know
[03:42:50] <ssi> if you already have the parts, then it's moot
[03:42:51] <ssi> build it
[03:43:07] <djdelorie> build one crappy machine, use it to build a better one :-)
[03:43:09] <Jordan__> no i don't have parts, i want to make sure what i'm doing is not stoopid
[03:43:26] <ssi> if it were me, I'd be using 10tpi acme screw
[03:43:50] <Jordan__> you know how slow that would be, you know how slow they already are
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[03:44:01] <Jordan__> it takes 12 hours to print out the parts for one prusa
[03:44:04] <ssi> I don't think it matters that much
[03:44:23] <ssi> what's your actual feedrate while printing
[03:44:59] <Jordan__> not sure
[03:45:08] <ssi> rapid speed is irrelevant, especially for that machine
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[03:45:27] <ssi> if it's gotta feed at 25mm/s, then what difference does it make how much faster it can go?
[03:45:29] <KimK> There are always engineering tradeoffs. If you know that you want (about) a 0.1mm (0.004") step layer, then 0.01mm (0.0004") allows a 10% adjustment, 0.001mm (0.00004") allows a 1% adjustment, etc.
[03:45:42] <djdelorie> ssi: speed might be required to bridge big gaps
[03:45:49] <ssi> djdelorie: maybe!
[03:46:00] <ssi> speed is an issue for my plasma cutter, because you need feed rate to cut thin metal
[03:46:05] <ssi> that machine'll run 600ipm
[03:46:47] <Jordan__> well i'm not concerned about it 4tpi would be higher res than what the hole community uses
[03:46:58] <Jordan__> whole*
[03:47:13] <KimK> Jordan__: Why, what are they using?
[03:47:22] <Jordan__> belts and pulleys
[03:47:41] <KimK> And what resolution are they getting?
[03:47:58] <ssi> http://wiki.makerbot.com/faq-frequently-asked-questions
[03:48:02] <ssi> Accurate to 0.08mm (.003") Minimum feature size is 0.08mm.
[03:48:06] <ssi> 33mm/sec (1.3"/sec)
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[03:48:25] <Jordan__> yea people laugh at that makerbot
[03:48:33] <Jordan__> for how slow it goes
[03:48:42] <ssi> I'm just trying to get an idea of some numbers
[03:49:15] <ssi> what's a "good" machine
[03:49:40] <Jordan__> the belt i got is about 12mm diameter. so its about 200steps/3inches
[03:49:47] <Jordan__> i mean pulley
[03:50:22] <djdelorie> 12mm diam = 1.5in around
[03:51:01] <Jordan__> oh right
[03:51:14] <Jordan__> still that's worse than a 4 tpi drive screw right?
[03:51:51] <djdelorie> depends on whether "too slow" makes it worse for its intended purpose or not
[03:52:10] <Jordan__> i mean as far as resolution
[03:52:16] <Jordan__> not talking about speed
[03:52:50] <djdelorie> well, yeah, a screw would give you more precision. But whether that's "better" or not depends
[03:53:18] <Jordan__> ok so 4tpi will have more precision than what they currently have so it's fine
[03:53:30] <djdelorie> but it's also slower, which may not be fine
[03:53:37] <Jordan__> yea that part i hate
[03:53:43] <KimK> Looked at another way, if your machine has 0.1mm step size, and you are making a part with 0.1mm layers and find them too thin (maybe your part was designed to be 5cm high, but it's coming out short, say, only 4.8cm. So your other choice would be to add another whole 0.1mm step, probably making the part come out 9.6mm instead. Is that close enough?
[03:54:14] <djdelorie> KimK: the trick there is to tell the software how thick the layers really are, and let it recompute the layer stack
[03:54:30] <KimK> Or redesign your part and hope you can "sneak in" some more layers?
[03:55:03] <djdelorie> but consider, the design of the Z axis is independent of the X and Y axes.
[03:55:08] <KimK> djdelorie: Yes, I think we're on the same track there.
[03:55:11] <Jordan__> oh well i'll try it anyway, ill show you guys when i'm done if you are around
[03:55:25] <djdelorie> the Z axis can be slow and precise, where the X and Y axes can be faster
[03:55:26] <ssi> please do
[03:55:53] <KimK> Jordan__: Yes, please, we'd like to see it. Don't take our comments as criticism.
[03:56:06] <Jordan__> the z axis uses off the shelf M8 threaded rod
[03:56:22] <Jordan__> that would be excruciatingly slow
[03:56:26] <djdelorie> right - the first step in design is to understand the goals and reasons, not to understand the steps to get there :-)
[03:56:28] <Jordan__> for x and y
[03:56:50] <djdelorie> Jordan_: the Z axis need not be fast in a makerbot - it steps once per layer
[03:57:01] <djdelorie> the X and Y have to draw each layer, they need to be fast
[03:57:06] <Jordan__> yea i know, z axis can be slow
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[03:57:33] <djdelorie> so generic 1/4-20 for the Z is probably fine, but would make XY unusable
[03:57:57] <Jordan__> yea i'll use 4 tpi for xy
[03:58:09] <Jordan__> so 20 is "fully threaded"?
[03:58:32] <djdelorie> or belts. Remember, you're painting with an 0.5mm nozzle, making X and Y much more precise than that might be unnoticable
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[03:58:42] <djdelorie> 1/4-20 is a standard US thread size, that's all
[03:58:59] <djdelorie> (for generic hardware store all-thread rod, that is)
[03:59:03] <Jordan__> is it acme
[03:59:18] <Jordan__> you wouldn't use acme?
[03:59:48] <djdelorie> generic hardware store all-thread? No. Standard 60 degree triangular. Dirt cheap
[04:00:14] <djdelorie> it's not needed for Z
[04:00:25] <ssi> seems like acme oughta run smoother
[04:00:38] <ssi> and is still pretty durn cheap
[04:00:45] <KimK> Jordan__: 1/4-20 should be something like 6mm-0.8mm(?) Good luck, I'll check back later. djdelorie: Thanks for your explanations. ssi: We'll talk more later.
[04:01:00] <ssi> KimK: thanks :)
[04:01:05] <Jordan__> ok thanks
[04:01:06] <djdelorie> ssi: acme is chosen when efficiency is needed - it transfers more power to the output, less waste
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[04:02:44] <KimK> Jordan__: Oops, sorry, more like 6mm-1.25mm
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[04:03:13] <Jordan__> is that 1.25mm per turn?
[04:03:22] <KimK> Yes, approx.
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[04:03:25] <ssi> so my spindle feedback from the resolver doesn't look too happy
[04:04:14] <ssi> I'm graphing the resolver velocity in halscope, and it's a big nasty waveform whose amplitude is bigger than the velocity itself at max speed
[04:05:04] <ssi> I need to put a real scope on the resolver outputs I think
[04:05:17] <KimK> ssi: Is it a sin or cos waveform? Or something else?
[04:06:05] <ssi> looks more like spiky noise
[04:06:14] H264 is now known as tiwake
[04:06:31] <KimK> ssi: OK. I'll have to check back later.
[04:06:43] <ssi> ok no problem
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[04:12:18] <Jordan__> djdelorie, but the g2 acmes should be higher tolerance than off the shelf screws
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[04:12:29] <Jordan__> for straightness and such
[04:12:39] <djdelorie> probably
[04:12:39] <Jordan__> right
[04:13:05] <Jordan__> i don't want any wobbly z screws
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[04:14:34] <KimK> BTW, before I go, any eBay fans around? I sometimes run across a seller that uses those "mouse over image to zoom" photos. If I try to print the first page (Ubuntu 10.04, Firefox 11.0), there's no photo, only the text. I was wondering if there's a way to fix this (without printing a screen shot). Are there any Firefoxscript-blockers or Java-killers that make this go away? Example at http://search.ebay.com/220988456703
[04:16:23] <Tecan> do they do 1/8 step ?
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[04:18:14] <Jordan__> would acetal work well with the acme screws? can i make those myself out of acetal blocks
[04:18:32] <Jordan__> i don't want any play in them
[04:18:45] <djdelorie> my Z axis uses solid maple with all-thread, works fine
[04:19:04] <Tecan> http://www.easy-cnc.com/4axisdriver.html << these boards are awesome
[04:19:10] <Jordan__> mine is only 4tpi
[04:19:28] <djdelorie> you need a way to tap it
[04:20:23] <Jordan__> where do you get taps?
[04:20:46] <djdelorie> for acme? No idea. One bonus for using generic all-thread is that generic taps work :-)
[04:21:51] <Jymmm> Tecan: Fro the specs, I suspect that board uses the ahtena (?) chipset which are prone to heat issues. NOT a good thing.
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[04:22:00] <Jymmm> Same as the xylotex board.
[04:22:23] <Jordan__> how big of a problem is backlash of screws compared to belts?
[04:22:59] <djdelorie> if you care about backlash, you typically use an anti-backlash nut on a screw anyway
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[04:23:15] <Jordan__> yea but what if you didn't have it
[04:23:56] <djdelorie> then it depends on the specifics of your machine, I suppose
[04:24:57] <Jordan__> but in general is backlash a bigger problem in belts and pulleys?
[04:25:02] <Tecan> allegro
[04:25:03] <djdelorie> I don't know
[04:25:40] <Tecan> they manage fairly well without heatsinks
[04:25:40] <cradek> quality toothed belts and pulleys set up at the proper tension do not have backlash
[04:27:28] <Jordan__> how much backlash can i expect if i didn't use antibacklash nutes
[04:27:31] <Jordan__> nuts*
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[04:32:40] <Jordan__> what about acceleration, screws would have advantage over belts
[04:32:51] <djdelorie> depends on the belt
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[04:34:18] <Jordan__> just in general
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[06:14:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ping
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[06:20:40] <psha> hard ping
[06:22:03] <Jymmm> heh, well two hours of bouncing seems a tad much.
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[06:48:33] <archivist> kicking a redular is bad form
[06:48:38] <archivist> regular
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[06:56:14] <mrsun> archivist, if they are disconnecting/reconnecting all the time a kick is in order, its not to be mean to them its just to save other people alot of seing them connect/disconnect ;P
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[06:57:57] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:04:35] <ssi> I hope he gets that sorted out soon :/
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[07:22:26] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[07:24:38] <mrsun> gah i want a bigger melting furnace, the one i have built has gone broken over the winter :(
[07:24:49] <mrsun> and i might have made it a tad bit on the big side ;P
[07:24:52] <ssi> I want a furnace myself
[07:25:30] <mrsun> got burners and everything, just need a good furnace body that can stand the heat, prerebly i want to be able to melt cast iron =)
[07:25:44] <ssi> I'd be happy starting with aluminum
[07:25:49] <ssi> but yeah, cast iron would be nice
[07:25:53] <Loetmichel> ssi: get some fire clay, some heat resistant stones, a blower and some coal... bingo ;-)
[07:25:59] <ssi> yeah I know
[07:26:04] <ssi> it's just yet another project :)
[07:26:17] <ssi> that and I have no idea where to get refractory
[07:26:19] <mrsun> got a small one for alu atm, can melt like 1 liter or so of metal with it
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[07:26:41] <mrsun> ssi, furnace cement usaly is buyable at any hardware store .. atleast in sweden =)
[07:26:45] <mrsun> takes 1200 - 1300 degrees C
[07:27:00] <ssi> what do you need for iron
[07:27:01] <ssi> 1800C?
[07:27:17] <mrsun> highest carbon cast iron melts at 1260 or so degrees C
[07:27:27] <ssi> ah
[07:27:28] <mrsun> but a good 1500 - 1800 lining wouldnt be to bad :P
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[07:29:37] <mrsun> an electric "furnace" for alu wouldnt be to bad either
[07:29:43] <mrsun> its not like it needs high temperatures =)
[07:29:45] <ssi> inductive?
[07:30:17] <mrsun> nah
[07:30:19] <mrsun> just heating elements
[07:30:31] <mrsun> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYRWu5hpLZo&feature=g-vrec&context=G2024eb2RVAAAAAAAAAg like that
[07:31:20] <ssi> electric would be pretty good
[07:31:52] <mrsun> yeah no shortage of fuel atleast =)
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[07:35:07] <mrsun> if i only could find refractory blocks like the ones he uses =)
[07:37:46] <mrsun> sucks that the refractory cement isnt reactive to alu like concrete is
[07:38:06] <ssi> what do you mean?
[07:38:16] <mrsun> concrete + alu powder == low dencity concrete due to gases being produced
[07:38:30] <ssi> weird
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[07:38:44] <mrsun> it produces hydrogen gas i think it was
[07:38:48] <mrsun> making boubles in the concrete
[07:38:53] <ssi> makes it fluffy :)
[07:39:01] <Loetmichel> mrsun: put some NaOH in the concrete, than it eacts with the alu
[07:39:02] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[07:39:04] <Loetmichel> reacts
[07:39:17] <mrsun> ssi, yep
[07:39:32] <mazafaka> Why do you need low density concrete?
[07:39:47] <Loetmichel> iirc it isnt hydrogen, its Oxygen
[07:39:49] <mrsun> i went around the problem by adding some cement to the furnace cement to make it produce boubles :P
[07:39:55] <mrsun> Loetmichel, ahh might be =)
[07:40:06] <mrsun> mazafaka, furnace building, thermal insulation =)
[07:40:24] <ssi> I guess I need to sleep
[07:40:27] <ssi> bye all :)
[07:40:37] <Loetmichel> is there an international name for YTONG?
[07:40:45] <Loetmichel> (foam cement)
[07:41:24] <mazafaka> oh, how smart
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[08:31:41] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: thongs are just some sick pants, in an international scale ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thong_2.jpg )
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[09:51:37] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: YTON is a european trademark for Foamed Cement blocks
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[09:51:59] <mazafaka> oh... :)
[09:52:11] <Loetmichel> re @ home from bringing my wife to the airport, btw.
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[09:55:39] <mazafaka> random thoughts on your further pastime: Good bunch of veggies and fruits can make magic to happen. Know just that health is valuable. Stew the cabbage, Loetmichel :) I wish I wouldn't be lazy to do it...
[09:57:16] <Loetmichel> ???
[09:57:39] <Loetmichel> <- just eating a bag fill of McD food ;-)
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[10:05:07] <mazafaka> not bad
[10:07:00] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: I am only 105kg at the moment.
[10:07:24] <Loetmichel> my WIFE needs to diet so she can get a new hip joint.
[10:08:10] <Loetmichel> so I can eat what i want, but it would not be fair to eat junk foood if she has to eat 120gr spinach with 60gr Salmon as a dinner
[10:08:20] <Loetmichel> s/if/when
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[10:31:37] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: why diet must be so rough? Eating spinach or pastry is good but whaqt if you create normal vegetarian food (not fried in fats, but something normal, on a daily basis)?
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[11:14:21] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: because she has to lose some 60 pounds in less than a year?
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[11:39:41] <mazafaka> *spinach or parsley, Loetmichel
[11:40:39] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: stupid diet, it will be easier to start some *right* diet, not to starve.
[11:41:18] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: its doctor prescribend and controlled, and it was just an example
[11:41:37] <Loetmichel> its not EVERY day spinach and salmon ;-)
[11:42:43] <mazafaka> She needs a good hobby if she restricts hereself in food. TV would be stupid idea, Internet will have finally brought emptiness
[11:43:05] <Loetmichel> and no, i am fed up wirth people who agressively want to impose their vegetarian lifestyle on others.
[11:43:46] <mazafaka> no about the hobby which will fill life while on the diet
[11:43:47] <Loetmichel> if not for the taste i would eating flesh just be stubborn and to irritate them ;-)
[11:44:42] <mazafaka> anyway, one need some good pastime if restrcits self in what he used to eat
[11:44:50] <Loetmichel> and the hobbys of my wife are none of your business.
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[11:48:24] <mazafaka> I myself made a cleaning of the apartment today, prepare for 'right' pastime while in fact used to somehow survive through the problems.
[11:50:09] <mazafaka> Plan to use those shirt for wire of MIG/MAG to keep the cables on my MTB. Think to go and take angle grinder in the garage and work later in the evening, but need to clean windows at first.
[11:51:38] <mazafaka> 2 be young and in style http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilyagalkin/7031546129/in/photostream
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[12:04:06] <mazafaka> I today feel fear a little. Have to become more independent, do many thing by myself. Hate many my pals because of their moans on life and how much they're got payed (it's about 40-50% higher than me).
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[12:06:36] <mazafaka> Just have found cycleexif.com magazine
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[13:13:19] <asdfasd> what the hell is that?
[13:13:22] <asdfasd> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vtZY9m_BsE
[13:13:33] <asdfasd> 14th second
[13:14:14] <archivist> you mean the cutter?
[13:14:44] <asdfasd> I mean the sensor below
[13:14:52] <asdfasd> some kind of homing
[13:15:18] <asdfasd> and strange movements to find the zero
[13:16:59] <archivist> probably also working out the effective dia of the cutter
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[13:18:12] <asdfasd> I have no idea what actually doing but probably with that complicated movements they are able to take all info needed to run straight away
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[13:18:53] <archivist> http://www.zund.co.uk/g3_options.php
[13:18:57] <asdfasd> it looks usefull
[13:21:06] <asdfasd> here they say for the tool lenght only
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[13:42:04] <mazafaka> heh, have to set zero for the coordinate system quite often to get the details.
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[13:50:46] <asdfasd> in documentation says stepgen.n.steplen is in nanoseconds, then why in my hal file is set to 1 ?
[13:51:04] <asdfasd> stepgen.n.stepspace is set to 0
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[15:01:23] <pcw__> <ssi> "I'm graphing the resolver velocity in halscope, and it's a big nasty waveform whose amplitude is bigger than the velocity itself at max speed "
[15:01:25] <pcw__> The velocity signal is likely to be totally useless unless the inputs are scaled correctly (the position will appear to move in steps to the tracking filter)
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[15:14:59] <pcw__> As you increase the magnitude of the sine/cos greater than the input limits, the A-D/input circuit clips so you get closer and closer to square wave modulation envelopes, eventually ending up with quadrature (90 degree steps) The tracking filter cannot possibly
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[15:15:01] <pcw__> follow these steps (whats the velocity of a step position change?)
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[15:40:45] <SolarNRG> Hi guys
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[15:46:34] <ssi> pcw__: ah that makes sense
[15:46:49] <ssi> pcw__: although, the velocity of my X/Z axes is pretty stable
[15:48:56] <ssi> pcw__: also, I captured this while the spindle was running at low speed
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[15:48:58] <ssi> pcw__: https://p.twimg.com/ApU5AaDCIAA3VX-.jpg:large
[15:49:02] <pcw__> did you measure the spindle sine/cos signals?
[15:49:04] <ssi> note the little bit of noise
[15:49:13] <ssi> yea it's 3V rms like the other axes
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[15:50:58] <pcw__> Yeah so the will be large amounts of a turn where the calculated position does not change and then jumps
[15:52:19] <ssi> yeah that makes good sense
[15:52:35] <ssi> did that hv card ship out wednesday?
[15:52:53] <pcw__> I think so
[15:53:03] <ssi> I may get it today if it went usps like the others
[15:55:52] <pcw__> The overload characteristics are not completely straightforward either as the input is oversampled (10 or 16 samples per carrier cycle) so some will be OK so the circle will gently morph into a square as you increase overdrive
[15:56:26] <pcw__> (so some samples away from the carrier peaks)
[15:56:56] <ssi> I snapped this as well
[15:56:57] <ssi> https://p.twimg.com/ApU5FqmCAAARbWM.jpg:large
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[15:58:13] <pcw__> if you look at the lmv842 output pins that drive the DAC you should see the clipping
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[16:01:05] <pcw__> those are like pins 1 and 7 of the bottom row chips. They should be at 2.5V with a superimposed sin or cos modulated carrier (clipping at 5V P-P)
[16:04:46] <pcw__> sorry lmv824
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[16:08:31] <pcw__> and outputs are 1,7,8,14 = corner pins
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[16:08:51] <ssi> looking at the datasheet now
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[16:12:30] <FredrikHson> i guess its a nobrainer that its worth updating my install right?
[16:12:44] <FredrikHson> running 2.1.6 atm apparently
[16:14:58] <pcw__> thats an oldie...
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[16:15:22] <FredrikHson> haven't had a reason to update it since i installed it waaay back
[16:15:43] <pcw__> look like jthornton has internetus interruptus
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[16:17:12] <ssi> yeah he's in bad shape :P
[16:17:45] <FredrikHson> speaking of reinstalling everything no chance that there is an usb stick installer around?
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[16:23:00] <FredrikHson> nm my old as hell laptop supports no such fancy things anyway
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[17:19:03] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: there is a loose connection
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[17:24:24] <IchGuckLive> im off
[17:24:41] <IchGuckLive> Have a nice suturday eveniing and 1April
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[18:00:40] <Jordan__> how much are double start lead screws?
[18:01:10] <mrsun> how high is high ? :P
[18:01:29] <Jordan__> vs single start screws
[18:01:29] <joe9> how do I connect this to a power outlet: http://www.antekinc.com/details.php?p=185 the spec says: 115Vac – 2 red wires to neutral & 2 black wires to hot.
[18:01:36] <Jordan__> i can even't seem to find double start screws
[18:02:18] <joe9> wondering if there are any fixtures for that. I should probably check in #electronics. sorry for the bother.
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[18:03:14] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: ping
[18:03:57] <archivist> Jordan__, ball or acme
[18:04:07] <Jordan__> acme
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[18:04:23] <Jordan__> i'm looking for cheap
[18:04:36] <Jordan__> it's the only way
[18:04:45] <Jordan__> are they 2x the price in general archivist
[18:04:56] <archivist> cheap is make it yourself
[18:05:20] <Jordan__> make screws my self?
[18:05:25] <Jordan__> i don't think so
[18:05:42] <Jordan__> are they the same price archivist or double
[18:06:15] <archivist> to get a price I would have to google or quote!
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[18:06:37] <Jordan__> i have they are all expensive
[18:06:54] <pfred1> I just got a computer for a buck
[18:07:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: you paid too much
[18:07:25] <pfred1> Jymmm maybe it needs a new power supply and something is wrong with the on board video too
[18:07:39] <pfred1> but other than that it runs great!
[18:08:05] <pfred1> it is a HP Pavilion a6712f Desktop
[18:08:31] <pfred1> 6 Gb RAM 500 GB SATA drive 2.5GHz dual core CPU
[18:09:35] <pfred1> whoever had it before me thought the motherboard was fried and I guess it kind of is being as the on board video doesn't work I think it is a bad solder joint on the connector though
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[18:09:53] <Jymmm> pfred1: Well, if you're happy with it CONGRATS!
[18:10:10] <pfred1> Jymmm for a buck? the HDD in it has to be worth $30
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[18:10:33] <pfred1> these mobos are going for like $83 online now
[18:10:54] <Jymmm> 500GB, ok that works. Just be sure to wipe it in case any virus/malware.
[18:11:30] <pfred1> oh its getting Linux on it
[18:11:37] * pfred1 doesn't do Windows
[18:11:56] <joe9> pfred1: that is a good deal.
[18:11:58] <pcw__> best antivirus
[18:12:01] <pfred1> right now it is running Vista something or other I'm just checking how it works
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[18:12:09] <Jymmm> pfred1: HP/Compaq has lots of hidden partitions, just wpipe the drive in advance wold be my recommendation
[18:12:25] <pfred1> yeah I see it has a hidden partition for Windows backup on it
[18:12:36] * pfred1 wants the full 500 GB he paid for!
[18:13:04] <pfred1> I need to buy a power supply I swiped one off my other machine just to see if it worked or not
[18:13:08] <Jymmm> Might be more than one hidden partition
[18:13:23] <Jymmm> a backup and a restore
[18:13:29] <pfred1> Linux fdisk should be able to figure it out
[18:13:56] <pfred1> initially when I hit the power button it was totally dead no fans no nothing
[18:14:49] <pfred1> but the PSU that was in it has a 20 pin ATX connector and the mobo has a 24 pin and I found it without the add in 4 pin connector in the main power
[18:14:59] <pfred1> but it wouldn't work like that with my PSU either
[18:15:17] <pfred1> so I don't know what is up with all of that
[18:15:37] <pfred1> but that PSU it came with is fried anyways I found a bulging cap in it
[18:16:07] <pfred1> it isn't worth me fixing it either all the caps in it are TEAPO brand
[18:16:17] <Jymmm> Also, I think HP might be playing that switch the pins on the PS around, you need to verify first before replacing it.
[18:16:17] <pfred1> TEAPO is Chinese for Cheapo
[18:16:41] <pfred1> well I'm running it onw with a generic coolermaster PSU out of one of my other machines
[18:16:50] <Jymmm> k
[18:16:51] <pfred1> it is running like a champ too
[18:17:05] <pfred1> but it ain't keeping it
[18:17:22] <pfred1> unless I get a nicer PSU for my other machine something I've thought about doing
[18:18:20] <pfred1> I'll have to try LinuxCNC on it but it being Intel I don't hold out a whole lot of hope for it really
[18:18:44] <pfred1> but who knows it might be better than what I have now
[18:18:57] <pfred1> my 1 GHz P3
[18:19:20] <pfred1> I thnk core 2s usually suck for RTAI though
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[18:42:59] <pfred1> whoah these crooks want $769.99 for this model PC http://www.pacificgeek.com/product.asp?c=220&s=1519&ID=847245&P=F
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[18:47:13] <pcw__> well that includes the valuable Vista license
[18:47:21] <pfred1> pcw__ I got it
[18:47:40] <pfred1> it is running Vista ultimate this that and the other thing right now
[18:48:18] <pfred1> I almost feel bad wiping it out though
[18:48:18] <Jymmm> and of course you haven't tossed an unknown computer on your lan, right?
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[18:48:37] <pfred1> Jymmm wouldn't matter all my systems are Linux good luck infecting that
[18:48:58] <pfred1> but no I haven't jacked it in yet
[18:49:18] <Jymmm> pfred1: you keep thinking virus, and not malware.
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[18:50:18] <pfred1> I've looked through it best I can tell it was the PC for the senior center I bought it from their sale at and it doesn't have any 3rd party crapware on it
[18:50:44] <pfred1> it has stuff like squaredance.xls files on it and junk no pictures no videos it is really clean
[18:51:30] <pfred1> I looked over the PSU I pulled out of it and I don't think it could have run with it it doesn't have the extra 4 pin jack for the power connector
[18:52:11] <pfred1> but it almost seems like it is the stock PSU too I can't figure it out
[18:52:41] <pcw__> so the PS doesnt have the 4 pin 12V connector?
[18:53:06] <pfred1> it has one but it was plugged in over by the CPU as the CPU power connector but just one
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[18:53:27] <pfred1> but it has this stupid LED light on it like HP talks about on their website
[18:53:38] <pfred1> but it doesn't have an HP sticker on it
[18:53:41] <DJ9DJ> namd
[18:54:20] <pfred1> I honestly don't know how the machine could have ever worked with it in it but the PSU also seems burnt out to me
[18:54:35] <pfred1> I mean it had some dust in it so it had to have run for some time
[18:55:56] <pcw__> so maybe the PS just died and they tossed it
[18:56:22] <pfred1> but the system didn't start with my good PSU without that 4 pin in the power connector
[18:56:27] <pfred1> I tried it
[18:56:55] <pcw__> Yeah usually the CPU power comes from that 12V conn
[18:57:44] <pfred1> well there is another jack on the board by the CPU and that was and is hooked up
[18:57:45] <pcw__> maybe they swapped supplies with another dead machine and then gave up
[18:58:09] <pfred1> well it was tywrapped to other wires
[18:58:20] <pfred1> I don't see old folks really tywrapping their wiring
[18:58:52] <pcw__> well a mystery...
[18:58:55] <pfred1> right now its a mess because I want to pull my PSU out of it
[18:59:21] <pfred1> but I didn't want to buy anything for it not knowing if it worked or not
[18:59:40] <pfred1> now that I do I'm kind of motivated though
[19:00:08] <pcw__> well sounds like you could use a spare ATX PS anyway
[19:00:26] <pfred1> there is an app on the desktop that looks like a wristwatch talk about an old people PC
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[19:01:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: that's default in vista
[19:01:08] <pfred1> it is called a gadget I just right clicked on it did it come with Vista?
[19:01:14] <Jymmm> it's a widget
[19:01:20] <pcw__> at least it not a pocket watch...
[19:01:40] <pfred1> pcw__ it looks like the face off an old wristwatch
[19:02:03] <pcw__> Never seen Vista (we have XP and 7 at work)
[19:02:06] <pfred1> this is the first time I ever ran Vista I've heard a lot about it
[19:02:11] <pfred1> me either
[19:02:17] <pfred1> it's Windows
[19:02:27] <archivist> its been a while since I took a pocket watch apart
[19:02:43] <pfred1> hey it had some fits and starts starting because it got shut down funky but it seems running OK to me it restored itself now it seems fine
[19:03:35] <pfred1> archivist taking htem apart is easy getting them back together so they run is the hard part
[19:03:53] <archivist> its not too hard
[19:04:32] <archivist> ladies wrist watch are the hard ones
[19:06:04] <pfred1> I do have to try this box out with LinuxCNC though I wonder how it'll do
[19:06:23] <pfred1> I can split the cores dedicate one to the RT process see how that goes
[19:07:16] <pfred1> the motherboard in it is an asus
[19:07:27] <pcw__> The LinuxCNC/Mach control computer Tormach sells uses a dual core intel so its possible
[19:07:29] <Jymmm> O_o
[19:07:52] <pfred1> yeah I've personally not had great luck with asus but some seem to like them
[19:08:26] <pcw__> the Tormach one uses an Intel MB
[19:08:44] <pfred1> I want to get an AMD system and try LinuxCNC on it
[19:08:51] <pfred1> poor AMD they're on the ropes now
[19:08:54] <pcw__> and some low end core-duo (2180?)
[19:09:01] <joe9> i have an amd system on linuxcnc
[19:09:10] <pcw__> AMD has always been on the ropes...
[19:09:20] <pfred1> joe9 AMD seems to perform well
[19:09:35] <joe9> it works. latency around 15us.
[19:09:53] <pfred1> not bad
[19:09:57] <joe9> with a ramdisk for the rootfs
[19:10:15] <joe9> would not work with the pata_amd module though.
[19:11:20] <pfred1> yeah this new box has 6 GB of RAM in it
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[19:14:37] <joe9> then, should be a breeze.
[19:14:41] <joe9> what distro?
[19:14:48] <joe9> are you planning on using.
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[19:15:15] <archivist> todays "little" gear top left http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/IMG_1214.JPG
[19:15:48] <Tecan> anyone know a good way to control the pwm for a laser with emc ?
[19:16:13] <pfred1> archivist you're making your own watches?
[19:16:31] <Jymmm> spindle speed control to pwm?
[19:16:39] <Tecan> ya
[19:16:56] <Tecan> do i use gcode for that ?
[19:17:18] <Tecan> kinda new to emc so maybe i need to use it more
[19:17:18] <archivist> pfred1, no, I used to make clock watch parts for customers, and that is a test for a model slot car for someone
[19:17:47] <pfred1> joe9 I'll try the CD image
[19:17:53] <Tecan> i could probably use a unused pin for that ?
[19:18:05] <Tecan> or do i need to take up the whole axis
[19:18:44] <joe9> pfred1: let me know how that goes.
[19:18:47] <pfred1> everyone says nvidia is pretty bad for LinuxCNC is that a fair acessment?
[19:19:28] <pfred1> joe9 my p3 I setup a custom Debian Lenny build for it didn't really help my latency out much if at all
[19:20:03] <pcw__> I think the open source NV driver is suggested
[19:20:13] <pfred1> I figure when I order a PSU I might as well get some kind of video card
[19:20:29] <pfred1> I have a really junky ATI running right now but I hate ATI
[19:20:58] <pfred1> I never have any good luck with their stuff
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[19:21:28] <joe9> pfred1: my custom build helped with latency.
[19:21:39] <joe9> it depends on what you are looking for, i guess.
[19:21:52] <pfred1> joe9 mine may have as far as average times go but it still can spike the same
[19:22:20] <pfred1> just the spikes come a lot further apart
[19:22:27] <pfred1> I mean a whole lot
[19:22:43] <joe9> mine has no spikes. I was able to figure out (i think) that the spikes were coming from random disk access.
[19:22:58] <pfred1> to the point where I can sort of get away running the lower number
[19:22:58] <joe9> once, I removed the disk stuff, i do not see any spikes.
[19:23:17] <pfred1> might be disk access
[19:23:21] <joe9> but, i also spent more than a week or so getting to that point.
[19:23:37] <pfred1> joe9 the RAM went sour in that box and I was running X with 22 MB of RAM
[19:23:57] <pfred1> it wasn't running bad either until I tried to start up iceweasel
[19:24:26] <pfred1> then I was like boy this seems awfully laggy today I wonder what is going on ....
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[19:24:54] <pfred1> I ran htop saw 22 MB total RAM and was like ah ha!
[19:25:32] <pfred1> changed out the RAM module and was back in business
[19:26:10] <pfred1> but just it running on 22 MB RAM suggests to me it is a pretty small memory footprint
[19:26:45] <pfred1> that box has a 512MB RAM limit due to the chipset on the mobo
[19:27:07] <pfred1> it just can't address any more I guess
[19:27:34] <Jymmm> For anyone wanting to build an EMBEDDED controller in older hardware (DOM have better reliability than usb sticks) http://www.suntekstore.com/goods-10010120-4gb_disk_on_module_40_pin-_ide_industrial_mlc_flash_dom_ssd.html
[19:29:10] <pfred1> oh nice it'd be too tight a squeeze for me though I mean I could do it but it'd be more work than I like to do
[19:29:15] <pfred1> I need about 6 GB
[19:29:30] <pfred1> 4 just a little too little
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[19:32:56] <Tecan> http://maps.google.com/?t=8&utm_campaign=8bit&utm_source=yt
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[19:40:32] <joe9> the gecko g540 manual says that it can provide only 3.5Amp. whereas my motor is rated at 4.2 Amps.
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[19:40:46] <joe9> that makes it running at 83% torque.
[19:40:52] <joe9> is that a very bad idea?
[19:41:06] <joe9> should I be looking at exchanging the motors?
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[19:42:53] <pcw__> unless you save some money I would not worry about it
[19:43:06] <joe9> no, it is more expensive.
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[19:43:19] <joe9> the ones I have are $39 and the others are at $48
[19:43:27] <joe9> not a lot, but, a little expensive.
[19:43:41] <joe9> and, adding in the mailing fees and all that, I probably end up losing.
[19:43:44] <pcw__> I'd stick with what you have
[19:45:04] <joe9> ok, thanks.
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[19:47:04] <joe9> pcw__: do you know of any place to buy IEC inlet's locally such as a homedepot oslt.
[19:47:26] <joe9> do not want to wait till they arrive, just want to pick something up.
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[19:48:47] <pcw__> steal from a bad PC PS?
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[19:49:35] <joe9> actually, pretty smart.
[19:49:48] <joe9> i have a few lying around. thanks, did not even think of it.
[19:50:58] <pcw__> Be careful if you have powered them up recently- they bite!
[19:50:59] <joe9> pcw__: brilliant, man. I already found one.
[19:51:19] <joe9> you mean the bad psu's?
[19:54:35] <pcw__> they have ~320V on the input caps so need some discharge time to be safe
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[19:55:54] <pfred1> pcw__ a lot of designs bleed the HV caps
[19:56:30] <pcw__> Yeah just be care if you test for bad then immediately dissasemble
[19:56:39] <pcw__> careful
[19:56:56] <pfred1> yeah i like to give the caps some time myself
[19:59:08] <joe9> ok, thanks. haven't used those psu's in a while.
[19:59:14] <joe9> so, I am good on that front.
[19:59:22] <pfred1> yeah they're probably deader than a doornail
[19:59:32] <pfred1> some of those connectors have built in fuses
[19:59:37] <pfred1> something to look out for
[19:59:48] <pfred1> hard to spot when they do too
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[20:03:28] <joe9> pfred1: ok, thanks.
[20:04:02] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:06:37] <joe9> what is the use of the "relay power supply" and the "vfd drive" of the g540. is it ok to not have them?
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[20:25:25] <joe9> alex4nder: did you hook up the taig vfd to the g540?
[20:25:47] <joe9> alex4nder: what did you do for the "relay coil"? is it needed?
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[21:36:17] <ctjctj> Does anybody have a source for a *.ngc icon?
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[21:38:05] <JT-Shop> what is a "*.ngc icon"
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[21:39:27] <ctjctj> A desktop icon to represent that this file is full of gcode
[21:39:45] <ctjctj> Rather than the default "text file" icon that ubuntu shows.
[21:41:48] <JT-Shop> ah I see
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[21:43:04] <JT-Shop> don't know if I've ever seen one
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[21:43:44] <ctjctj> Yep. Sort of where I'm at right now.
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[21:47:09] <JT-Shop> hi guys, I've been busy http://imagebin.org/206211
[21:48:13] <ctjctj> pretty 4 pounder cartage but not a good icon. *GRIN*
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[21:51:43] <ssi> JT-Shop: that looks like fun
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[21:57:06] <Tecan> what would i put for driver microstepping if its 1/8
[21:57:09] <Tecan> 2 it half
[21:57:13] <Tecan> is*
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[22:01:24] <ssi> if I had to guess... I'd guess... 8
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[22:06:04] <JT-Shop> ssi: yep
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[22:08:24] <ssi> so I'm gonna try to get some surface finish out of my lathe
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[22:15:14] <ve7it> Jymmm, http://www.flickr.com/photos/64111811@N00/ check link on sub photos.... sailed right past our place a few days ago... test range is about 5 miles away
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[22:18:31] <Jymmm> ve7it: Wiat, WHUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT?1 Canucks have a Navy? And a sub too?! No canoes????
[22:20:43] <Jymmm> ve7it: whale skin canoe at that! Very cool, I'm kinda surprised they stayed topside outside of port as most go stealth as much as possible.
[22:21:12] <Jymmm> ve7it: Was there a destroyer too by chance?
[22:22:46] <ve7it> yup... scroll back through pix (about 5)
[22:23:11] <Jymmm> ve7it: so there was a destroyer near by too?
[22:23:47] <ve7it> http://www.flickr.com/photos/64111811@N00/6887080976/in/photostream and a tender
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[22:24:58] <Jymmm> ve7it: Heh, almost ALL destroyers have a "ghost" sub tailing them. But they are not in comms with them or know their location.
[22:25:05] <ve7it> they did a crew change ... about 15 sailors were on deck at once
[22:26:04] <ve7it> I think this was more like a rescue ship in case the sub sank.... it was British surplus... the Canucks added new batteries :}
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[22:26:18] <Jymmm> ve7it: Yeah, on a sub you eat LOTS of lobster, gets old after a while.
[22:26:47] <Jymmm> ve7it: Canucks have bateries now too? I thought it was all whale blubber oil lamps and such.
[22:28:06] <ve7it> what is the fun of non exploding torpedoes? We have some tsunami junk offshore that needs a torpedo
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[22:28:23] <Jymmm> heh
[22:28:38] <Jymmm> ve7it: Hey, what HT do you have?
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[22:30:16] <ve7it> many... IC-02AT IC-4AT IC-W32A and a couple of converted commercial jobs
[22:30:38] <Jymmm> ve7it: Have you opened up Tx on any of them?
[22:30:50] <Jymmm> ve7it: beyond MARS
[22:35:33] <ve7it> most cover a pretty broad range... what did you need?
[22:36:01] <Jymmm> ve7it: DC to Daylight, but that's only in my wet dreams.
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[22:36:59] <ve7it> should be tons of older commercial stuff on ebay ... narrow banding has to be done by 2013, but hams probably wont change from the current channel spacing
[22:37:23] <Jymmm> ve7it: I hvae a TH-D7ag and I can be opened from 137-174, but the partial service manual speaks of "relaignment" and I think it's firmware settings based, not tweeking chokes.
[22:38:08] <Jymmm> ve7it: Does that make sense in a rig such as this?
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[22:38:25] <ve7it> a lot of handhelds cover about 10Mhz well and need the filters tweaked for beyond that
[22:38:26] <Jymmm> ve7it: I dont want to fry anything is my biggest issue.
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[22:38:54] <ve7it> buy a signal generator
[22:38:55] <Jymmm> ve7it: oh, filters. ok that makes sense. though I have nfc there
[22:39:08] <raynerd> know I`m being a dumb ass here but what are my steps per mm with a 200 step/rev, 1/2 stepping with a 2mm lead screw?
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[22:39:35] <raynerd> I thought it was 200 x 0.5 = 400 divided by 2 = 200s steps per mm
[22:39:38] <Jymmm> 200 * 2 * 2 =
[22:40:06] <ve7it> 200*2 / 2
[22:40:15] <raynerd> just getting that into my head then..
[22:40:22] <raynerd> yes, ve7it - that is what I thought
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[22:40:48] <raynerd> I`m doing 400 steps per revolution but one rev takes me 2mm, so 1mm would be 200 steps.
[22:41:01] <Jymmm> ve7it: Ok, so filtering WHAT in TRANSMIT? Rx I get, but not Tx filtering.
[22:41:10] <Jymmm> ve7it: harmonics?
[22:42:09] <ve7it> tx filter is probably just a low pass, so no tweaking required... but circuit will have been designed for some optimum range
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[22:42:40] <ve7it> anything outside of spec'd range is a crap shoot
[22:43:24] <Jymmm> ve7it: Ok, Now to find/make an antenna for it!
[22:43:58] <Jymmm> ve7it: dual band 2m/40cm opened Tx on both
[22:45:43] <Jymmm> ve7it: I do wish the darn thing had Rx down to 88MHz though.
[22:46:34] <ve7it> some of the little Chinese radios rx down there ... about $50
[22:47:03] <Jymmm> ve7it: Well, I'm tryign to reduce the weight/load count. thus the opened HT.
[22:47:16] <Jymmm> should the need arise.
[22:47:45] <Jymmm> ve7it: SAR, RC, USFS, etc
[22:47:50] <ve7it> http://www.ebay.com/itm/BAOFENG-UV-3R-VHF-UHF-136-174-400-470-DUAL-BAND-RADIO-/220770096334
[22:48:51] <Jymmm> ve7it: 2W ARE YOU NUTS?! lol
[22:48:55] <ve7it> lots of local guys using these.... no dtmf pad, but very easy to pack around and the price is awesome
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[22:49:17] <ve7it> 2W is lots for local repeaters
[22:49:42] <Jymmm> ve7it: Sure, for LOCAL work. Not simplex.
[22:49:51] <raynerd> anyone tell me what the gcode is to make an axis move the x axis move just 1 unit?
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[22:50:39] <raynerd> an axis = x axis for example! sorry, wasn`t very clear!
[22:51:38] <ve7it> if you are at x=0 then g0 x1
[22:51:54] <ve7it> or g0 x-1
[22:51:55] <Jordan__> what are some cheap plastic options for bearings?
[22:51:59] <Tom_itx> one unit of what?
[22:52:16] <Tom_itx> g1 x .000001
[22:52:39] <raynerd> ok... sorry, just 1mm
[22:52:41] <ve7it> units will be whatever you calibrated in... mm, inches, furlongs,
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[22:52:56] <Jymmm> ve7it: parsecs?
[22:54:43] <Jordan__> for bearing system, what is the best plastic?
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[22:54:47] <Jordan__> what's the cheapest?
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[22:55:32] <Jymmm> Jordan__: why plastic bearings?
[22:55:47] <Jordan__> well it's for a drive screw
[22:56:11] <Jordan__> is plastic no good?
[22:56:17] <Jymmm> you mean end bearings?
[22:57:08] <Jymmm> REAL end bearings are cheap enough, and you could even use skat bearsings if you had to.
[22:57:12] <Jymmm> skate
[22:57:20] <Jymmm> they come in different sizes
[22:57:26] <Jordan__> for drive screw?
[22:57:29] <raynerd> ahhhh!! thankyou for the gcode, but I`m only moving 0.5mm with that!!!
[22:57:49] <Jordan__> k Jymmm what about the nut?
[23:00:18] <raynerd> I`m confused.. g0 x1 is only giving me 0.5mm of movement, yet I`m half stepping, 200 step/rev with 2mm leadscrew and steps per unit set to 200!
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[23:07:32] <Jordan__> well looks like UHMW is the cheapest
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[23:11:17] <Jordan__> and very nice properties
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[23:13:23] <kb8wmc> Jordan__: I have used HDPE for end bearings with 1/2-10 drive screw
[23:13:56] <Jordan__> i'm looking something for the nut
[23:14:08] <Jordan__> i just want a big suare block
[23:14:18] <Jordan__> that i can fasten stuff to
[23:14:30] <kb8wmc> rgr....I have also made nut out of HDPE
[23:14:46] <Jordan__> is hdpe cheaper or something
[23:14:52] <Jordan__> i don't think it would be as good as UHMW
[23:15:09] <kb8wmc> it is something I had laying around in a bin
[23:15:14] <ssi> isn't hdpe just a particular type of uhmw?
[23:15:35] <Jordan__> UHMWPE is synthesized from monomer of ethylene, which are bonded together to form ultra-high-molecular-weight polyethylene (or UHMWPE). These are molecules of polyethylene that are several orders of magnitude longer than familiar high-density polyethylene due to a synthesis process based on metallocene catalysts.
[23:15:49] <kb8wmc> ssi: yes, a higher coefficiaent of friction
[23:16:04] <Jordan__> they aren't the same
[23:16:11] <Jordan__> UHMWPE that is
[23:16:28] <kb8wmc> no, they have very similar properties
[23:16:43] <Jordan__> hmm well which is better
[23:16:53] <kb8wmc> UHMW and UHMWPE are the same
[23:17:01] <Jordan__> for 1.5" 12x12 sheet is only 45
[23:17:09] <Jordan__> how much is HDPE
[23:17:19] <kb8wmc> I meant HDPE and UMHW have some similarities,
[23:17:35] <Jordan__> but UMHW is better
[23:17:45] <kb8wmc> can't help you with pricing Jordan__
[23:18:17] <Jordan__> well probably cheaper
[23:18:28] <Jordan__> but how much cheaper and how much worse
[23:19:04] <Jordan__> looks like maybe significantly cheaper
[23:21:08] <Jymmm> and do you have the tooling to fabricate whatever plastics you decide to use.
[23:21:16] <Jordan__> no
[23:22:11] <kb8wmc> Jordan__: find a site that provides properties comparison
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[23:22:47] <Jordan__> hard to find really thick hdpe
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[23:23:20] <Jordan__> and it actually doesn't look that much cheaper if any
[23:23:33] <kb8wmc> check with ALRO I believe they carry 'plastic' materials also
[23:23:47] <Jordan__> http://www.professionalplastics.com/HDPESHEETSRODS
[23:23:56] <Jordan__> not too bad $40 for 1.5" 12x12
[23:24:08] <Jordan__> but that's close to the 45 i saw at onlinemetals
[23:24:15] <Jordan__> for UHMW
[23:26:21] <kb8wmc> http://www.alro.com/divplastics/PlasticsProduct_Polyethylene.aspx
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[23:27:29] <Jordan__> not interested if they don't give a price
[23:27:38] <kb8wmc> it seems ALRO stocks PE up to 5 inches thick
[23:27:46] <kb8wmc> ok
[23:28:14] <Jordan__> i'm rewarding companies that actually can give you a price
[23:28:59] <kb8wmc> I remember I called the most local ALRO supplier for pricing....
[23:30:06] <Jordan__> ok at the professionalplastics.com is 47 for UHMW and 40 for HDPE
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[23:30:56] <Jordan__> if they don't give a price i consider it a sales pitch game and not interested
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[23:31:38] <Jordan__> so only minimally more expensive but i the UHMW is better
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[23:37:40] <Jordan__> well i could always try both
[23:37:56] <Jordan__> this site is saying HDPE is better for machining
[23:39:36] <Jordan__> this site says UHMW is much better...
[23:40:41] <Jordan__> http://www.machinist-materials.com/comparison_table_for_plastics.htm here we go a nice little chart
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[23:42:44] <Jordan__> what about teflon
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[23:43:31] <ssi> anyone know how I can convince linuxcnc to not stop the spindle for toolchanges?
[23:43:57] <ssi> I already have TOOLCHANGE_WITH_SPINDLE_ON = 1
[23:44:16] <Jordan__> my god teflon is expensive
[23:44:22] <Jordan__> like 7k
[23:44:51] <Jordan__> you can keep your teflon
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[23:51:08] <alex4nder> hey
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[23:51:24] <Jordan__> what tools do you need to tap the plastic?
[23:51:25] <alex4nder> joe9: there's no VFD on my taig
[23:51:40] <alex4nder> joe9: and I'm just using the stock 'lightswitch' to control the spindle.
[23:52:00] <joe9> alex4nder: what did you for the "relay control"? the stock "lightswitch"? do i need that?
[23:52:17] <alex4nder> well how do you want to control power to the spindle?
[23:54:31] <joe9> i did not know I had to do that. will use a light switch for that? is that in place of the "relay control" mentioned in the g540 spec?
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[23:54:37] <kb8wmc> Jordan__: I have used standard taps in the past....only tapped 1/4-20 and 5/16
[23:55:06] <alex4nder> joe9: don't you have the mill in front of you?
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[23:55:15] <joe9> yes, I do.
[23:55:18] <Jordan__> but is it going to have play in it? Do you need expensive equipment to do it right?
[23:55:27] <alex4nder> joe9: there's a light switch on the side of the mill column
[23:55:34] <alex4nder> by default the spindle is wired to plug into that
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[23:55:47] <joe9> oh, ok.
[23:55:50] <Jordan__> kb8wmc, ^
[23:56:02] <kb8wmc> yes
[23:56:14] <raynerd> sorry, know I mither like hell but why if you asked a machine to draw two concentric circles and they overlap, what could have caused that issue?? I`m ripping my hear out...
[23:56:17] <alex4nder> joe9: you don't need to wire spindle control into the G540.. I haven't.. but I plan to eventually.
[23:56:17] <Jordan__> what kind of equipment?
[23:56:37] <joe9> alex4nder: what about the "relay control" mentioned in the g540. Do I need that?
[23:56:55] <alex4nder> joe9: if you want to control a relay
[23:57:15] <joe9> alex4nder: i do not even know what a "relay" is. will google up on that.
[23:57:18] <Jordan__> kb8wmc, is it possible to pour it right on the screw and cast mold it like that?
[23:57:22] <kb8wmc> I tapped them to join other pieces of HDPE together
[23:57:22] <raynerd> the axis seem to be moving fine, but they seem to be out of sync!
[23:57:24] <joe9> so, I guess "no" then.
[23:57:38] <joe9> alex4nder: i was not sure if it was some kind of necessary stuff.
[23:57:40] <kb8wmc> I don't know on that Jordan
[23:58:04] <Jordan__> that would be awesome if you could
[23:59:17] <raynerd> :(