#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-06

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[00:02:40] -!- skunkworks__ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[00:03:05] <gene_> Hey ya-all!
[00:03:13] <pfred1> hey gene
[00:03:37] <JT-Shop> hay gene_
[00:03:50] <gene_> Lo. Good sky tonight here too
[00:03:59] <pfred1> yeah it is freaky
[00:04:08] <Tom_L> yep, nice n gray here
[00:04:28] <JT-Shop> dark and cloudy here
[00:04:32] <pfred1> little cloudy here but I still saw Venus and the Moon
[00:04:48] <JT-Shop> tomorrow is going to be sunny and 66F
[00:04:52] <Tom_L> any thoughts on the digital stepper drives kelinginc sells?
[00:04:57] <JT-Shop> it was 85F the other day
[00:04:59] <gene_> A bit here, I justchecked, not quite dark yet.
[00:05:21] <pfred1> Tom_L have a link?
[00:05:21] <JT-Shop> gee, I'd use G251's myself
[00:05:32] <Tom_L> http://www.kelinginc.net/KLDriverDigital.html
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[00:06:04] <pfred1> they spec real good
[00:06:05] <ssi> I have a couple of the keling drivers, and they're great for the money
[00:06:17] <gene_> I need a sort of a multiplier function, an antilog maybe, toput between the +- buttons for spindle speed inaxis, and the actual signal out
[00:06:18] <Tom_L> ssi, digital?
[00:06:27] <JT-Shop> oh that is up in the G203V range for voltage almost
[00:06:27] <ssi> eh maybe they're not digital
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[00:06:34] <pfred1> if it does what it says it does and I've no reason not to think it wouldn't then they look good to me
[00:07:15] <gene_> I need to be able to tweek slow speeds up in 5% of speed increments, all the way to full speed. Is there such a beastie?
[00:07:37] <ssi> spindle pid tuning is kicking my ass :)
[00:07:39] <JT-Shop> on the fly?
[00:07:52] <gene_> yup
[00:08:17] <JT-Shop> can't use stepgen acceleration as your limit?
[00:08:18] <gene_> ssi, what interface?
[00:08:55] <gene_> I don't think I have that in my .hal ATM, John.
[00:09:06] <ssi> gene_: what interface for what?
[00:09:25] <gene_> to control your spindle
[00:09:53] <ssi> VFD
[00:10:03] <JT-Shop> what are you up against gene_ ?
[00:10:35] <JT-Shop> ssi, are you using hal scope to tune?
[00:10:58] <gene_> I've been hacking at one of Arturo Duncan's C41's and finally have it working, but the slower speed stepsare poretty huge
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[00:11:12] <gene_> and I've been using a real scope
[00:11:45] <ssi> JT-Shop: yeah i'm using halscope
[00:11:52] <JT-Shop> what is a c41?
[00:12:03] <ssi> problem I'm having is overshoot and some oscillation when I change speeds
[00:12:08] <asdfasd> ssi , what for is that spindle? milling machine? if that is for milling then if you setup proper slip in your VFD drive then the speed will be so stable that you may not need PID at all
[00:12:18] <JT-Shop> ssi, the HNC is a vfd drive on the spindle?
[00:12:18] <ssi> asdfasd: it's for a lathe
[00:12:24] <ssi> JT-Shop: it is now!
[00:12:33] <gene_> I have also multiplied the bandwidth of the C41 by about 50x
[00:12:38] <ssi> JT-Shop: it was just ac-controlled fwd/rev contactors, and teh speed control is mechanical
[00:12:45] <ssi> ballscrew drives a trunion with a variable pulley
[00:12:51] <asdfasd> then you have to reduce Kp
[00:13:16] <asdfasd> may be by 10-15 %
[00:13:29] <ssi> just reducing P isn't enough... I dunno why
[00:13:47] <gene_> ssi, thatsounds as if the response times need a surveyer
[00:13:54] <asdfasd> you can set Ki to zero
[00:14:15] <asdfasd> just to make sure is not making troubles
[00:14:22] <ssi> I'm already running zero I
[00:15:13] <asdfasd> then with low Kd you are increasing Kp to make it work stable,
[00:15:24] <JT-Shop> gene_, are you running your spindle with the c41?
[00:15:37] <JT-Shop> and it ramps up or down too fast?
[00:15:48] <JT-Shop> crap I remember something about this
[00:16:15] <gene_> I don't know about the ramp, I wanted real time control though
[00:17:20] <gene_> yes, as a potreplacement for the oem controller
[00:17:29] <JT-Shop> your feeding the c41 with pwm and controlling a spindle?
[00:17:51] <gene_> not yet, testing on the workbench
[00:18:27] -!- WCMD [WCMD!adcabc9f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.202.188.159] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:18:55] <JT-Shop> your using pwmgen to drive the c41?
[00:19:46] <gene_> yes, I would imagine that I'll have to put an integrator since issueing an s1250 m3 may be more than the controller can do.
[00:20:36] <JT-Shop> yea, I wish I could remember what you need inbetween to ramp it up
[00:20:42] <gene_> but I also need something that increases the size of the step as it speeds up
[00:21:03] <gene_> right now its about 200 revs a step
[00:21:06] <JT-Shop> that would be an acceleration thing... crap what is it
[00:23:26] <JT-Shop> I want to think it is something like ddt but the man page is so blank I can't tell or limit1 HELP ANDY
[00:23:36] <WCMD> does anyone know if i could use an arduino and a bldc driver together as a servo controller? use the arduino for pid, monitor position commands and encoder readings.
[00:23:43] <JT-Shop> btw, has anyone seen Andy?
[00:24:04] <pfred1> he went sailing I think
[00:24:19] <djdelorie> WCMD: I use a mcu+driver in my bldc controller. How much you can do in the MCU depends on how powerful the MCU is
[00:24:21] <pfred1> last i saw him he was sating something about it
[00:24:22] <JT-Shop> he is done sailing
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[00:25:34] <pfred1> well I haven't seen him since then
[00:26:46] <JT-Shop> gene_, look at this http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/examples/spindle.html#_spindle_soft_start
[00:27:45] <JT-Shop> Andy arrived in SF a few days ago... dunno maybe homeland screwups arrested him or something
[00:28:06] <gene_> looks as if it will do part of it anyway.
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[00:28:29] <pfred1> JT-Shop was he in that yacht race out there?
[00:28:44] <JT-Shop> the round the world one yea
[00:28:44] <Tom_L> yes
[00:28:59] <JT-Shop> he sailed from China to SF
[00:29:03] <pfred1> I saw a news article about a british ship that got hit by a rogue wave
[00:29:09] <gene_> Now, I will have an encoder on the spindle, is there a page that shows me how to tell it 230 rpm and have the encoder control it for 230 rpms?
[00:29:17] <pfred1> I hope it wasn't him!
[00:29:31] <pfred1> they said there were injuries but they didn't give everyone's name
[00:29:34] <JT-Shop> pfred1, no it was the last boat
[00:29:48] <JT-Shop> Andy's boat came in 4th
[00:29:51] <gene_> it wasn't, he was in port alreqdy in his boat wen that happened to another competitor
[00:30:13] <pfred1> oh well not good to hear but good to hear it wasn't him
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[00:30:28] <pfred1> when I read about it I did think of him
[00:30:40] <tom3p> i needed a 'demux' comp ( 3bit binary input select 1 of 8 out bits ) for pendant axis selector http://pastebin.com/bMMrBRxg
[00:30:41] * JT-Shop heads inside to strap on the feed bag
[00:30:59] <JT-Shop> talk to you guys later
[00:31:07] <pfred1> l8r
[00:31:30] <gene_> don't tie it too tight!
[00:31:39] <pfred1> tom3p they make those ICs
[00:31:58] <tom3p> i never fiured how to solder hal pins ;)
[00:32:01] <pfred1> 3 in 8 out demultiplexers
[00:32:12] <Tom_itx> you're welcome to look at my code
[00:32:31] <Tom_itx> stolen and modified from jt
[00:32:48] <tom3p> eh? a demux comp?
[00:32:53] <Tom_itx> err...
[00:33:01] <Tom_itx> maybe not
[00:33:15] <Tom_itx> i did make a pendant axis selector
[00:33:47] <Tom_itx> for X Y Z A and different resolutions
[00:34:31] <tom3p> ditto, same idea, it kinda depends where reality ends and hal begins
[00:34:45] <Tom_itx> you can see if it would help
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[00:35:19] <tom3p> i found an old fanuc AB mpg and am using it too.
[00:35:25] <tom3p> sure, got links?
[00:35:45] <Tom_itx> winding up the mainspring on the other pc
[00:36:44] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/configs/hm2-stepper/my_jog.hal
[00:36:49] <tom3p> thx!
[00:37:13] <Tom_L> i was doing some testing on errorproofing so there may be some stuff in there that's incomplete
[00:37:50] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/pendant8.jpg
[00:37:58] <Tom_L> there's what i was working with
[00:39:39] <tom3p> nice, shiny AND engraved
[00:39:43] <Tom_L> the rest of the files should be there as well
[00:39:57] <Tom_L> not that fancy, it was a center drill :)
[00:40:53] <Tom_L> the estop will change to a larger button eventually
[00:40:58] <Tom_L> that's just a test box
[00:42:03] <ReadError> is that a knob off a safe? ;p
[00:42:37] <Tom_L> http://www.pmdx.com/MPG-01
[00:43:02] <ReadError> oooohhh lol
[00:44:21] <tom3p> you used gpio.005,7&9 to select xyz, thats why i used a demux, to get xyzwabc out of 3 inputs
[00:44:39] <tom3p> also acts like radio buttons ( only 1 at a time, better for me )
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[00:46:18] <pfred1> ah I found the fonts i need to IRC with anymore tiresias-info-fonts.noarch : Specialized fonts for info terminals for the visually impaired ...
[00:47:11] <pfred1> the tired eyes fonts!
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[00:56:03] <tom3p> a guy just asked the mailing list about probs with torque mode amps. doesnt that just act like a pwm controlled h bridge? ( a 'dumb' amp)?
[00:57:53] <ssi> JT-Shop: he hopped on here for a few minutes after he hit sf
[00:58:13] <ssi> oshi I was scrolled up
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[01:03:13] <Justin_CNC> Is there anyone in here who routes circuit boards?
[01:05:04] <pfred1> I do
[01:11:42] <Tom_L> yes
[01:14:37] <Justin_CNC> What kind of tools are you using to cut and what feeds/speeds?
[01:14:45] <Justin_CNC> If you do not mind sharing
[01:15:01] <Tom_L> oh heck i thought you meant 'cad' route
[01:15:05] <Tom_L> i etch mine
[01:15:22] <Tom_L> 10krpm or more with carbite bits
[01:18:46] <Justin_CNC> I am running 30k rpm at the moment and about 26IPM, I am just wondering how much faster I can go without snapping the tip off the tool
[01:19:17] <Tom_L> calculate the ipt
[01:19:31] <Tom_L> then calculate the chip load
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[01:19:54] <Tom_L> err vice versa
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[01:27:41] <pfred1> Justin_CNC I route board art I don't mill boards
[01:28:10] <pfred1> yeah I etch too
[01:28:33] <djdelorie> my pcb drilling spindle is 56k rpm but I haven't tried milling with it, other than a bit 0.125" bit ;-)
[01:28:48] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/etch_index.php
[01:29:05] <djdelorie> Tom_L: how do you know what the right chip load *is* for one of those bits ?
[01:29:06] <pfred1> djdelorie we've had a conversation about your PCB drilling before
[01:29:19] <djdelorie> yup, just adding my rpm to the mix
[01:29:21] <Tom_L> djdelorie, surface speed
[01:29:37] <Tom_L> no different than any other cutter
[01:29:45] <Tom_L> just smaller
[01:29:46] <djdelorie> if I want to calculate the surface speed, you need to know what the "right" chip load is for the cutter
[01:29:59] <Tom_L> yes you do
[01:30:01] <djdelorie> doesn't that depend on the cutter geometry?
[01:30:05] <Justin_CNC> Yeah, I am stuck there, I have no idea what the chip load should be
[01:30:29] <pfred1> if the bit snaps it is too high
[01:30:33] <djdelorie> :-P
[01:31:24] <Tom_L> well let's see here
[01:31:33] <Justin_CNC> trying not to snap it, I only have one :)
[01:31:36] <Tom_L> what's the tool diameter and number of teeth?
[01:31:49] <pfred1> buy them by the dozen PCB material is nasty
[01:32:26] <Tom_L> ahhhemm.. what's the tool diameter and number of teeth?
[01:32:43] <Justin_CNC> It is a 1/8th carbide, V bit I guess, 10 teeth
[01:33:02] <Justin_CNC> let me measure the angle
[01:33:11] <pfred1> the shank is 1/8 inch
[01:33:34] <Justin_CNC> pfred1, I plan to, I just need to get a couple boards done tonight
[01:33:40] <pfred1> figure they're going to go 1/32
[01:33:41] <Justin_CNC> yes, 1/8 inch shank
[01:33:54] <pfred1> that is reasonable
[01:35:26] <Justin_CNC> looks like 35 degree angle
[01:35:39] <Tom_L> and the spindle speed again?
[01:35:55] <Justin_CNC> 30k rpm is my max
[01:36:22] <pfred1> that is what you're going to want to run at 1/32 diameter cutter
[01:37:21] <pfred1> Justin_CNC you're not going to sink the whole bit through the board are you?
[01:38:11] <Tom_L> doesn't matter
[01:38:16] <Justin_CNC> No, just the copper, trying to keep the bit out of the fiber as much as possible
[01:38:50] <pfred1> I think you're going to want to get a different bit someday
[01:39:03] <pfred1> one maybe with a more rounded profile
[01:39:58] <pfred1> so you can get some teeth into the material
[01:41:05] <Justin_CNC> I am open to suggestions, I have no idea were to source small stuff like this, this tool came from drillbitcity.com, part of their circuit routing pack
[01:41:37] <pfred1> then it should work they don't have any data about it?
[01:41:57] <Justin_CNC> the tip is about 0.020", so it is too big for smt stuff anyway
[01:42:14] <pfred1> so it doesn't go to a sharp point?
[01:43:12] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBIDE-ENDMILL-COMBO-PACK-3-CNC-PCB-DREMEL-50-PIECE-/180850222193?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1b836471
[01:43:15] <pfred1> you could consider 0.020 your cutter diameter
[01:44:25] <Justin_CNC> I ask the guy at drill bit city and he did not really know, he said they just resharpen tooling. And yes, it is not a sharp point
[01:44:32] <Tom_L> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180848252056
[01:44:41] <pfred1> Justin_CNC you're better off
[01:45:57] <Justin_CNC> ok, thanks for the link
[01:46:15] <Justin_CNC> I think I should go back to etching, these tools are huge :-)
[01:46:38] <pfred1> the pros etch so there must be something to say for it
[01:46:47] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/etching/mills1.jpg
[01:46:55] <Tom_L> those aren't huge
[01:47:07] <djdelorie> my plan is to drill the pcbs first with the cnc, then etch the copper, before I'd etch first and try to drill all the little tiny copper rings out :-P
[01:47:08] <Tom_L> neither are they cheap
[01:47:45] <pfred1> djdelorie wouldn't the etchant eat the holes though?
[01:47:57] <pfred1> or are you going to mask them after you drill them?
[01:48:03] <djdelorie> I'm hoping the film will span the holes and plug them
[01:48:10] <djdelorie> I use UV film laminate, not toner
[01:48:21] <pfred1> we had this goo we called flesh we'd mask pads we didnt' want to get wave soldered
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[01:48:42] <pfred1> it was sort of like a rubber
[01:49:04] <pfred1> you'd dab it on and it'd dry rubbery
[01:49:12] <pfred1> then it picked off easily
[01:49:23] <pfred1> like you could brush it off with your finger
[01:49:48] <Tom_L> at 25k rpm and a .001 chip load your feed would be 50 ipm
[01:50:01] <pfred1> banging
[01:50:15] <djdelorie> I've used that goo before
[01:50:30] <pfred1> yeah it is like fake flesh the stuff we used was pink
[01:50:58] <Justin_CNC> Thank you Tom_L
[01:51:07] <pfred1> we had to mask all the pads for final parts we couldn't wave solder
[01:51:08] <Tom_L> that means each tooth takes .001" every rpm
[01:51:12] <djdelorie> Tom_L: is there simliar magic to calculate Z feed for drilling?
[01:51:34] <Justin_CNC> djdelorie, I am curious about this UV film you are using, have any links?
[01:51:38] <Tom_L> google the machinist's friend
[01:51:55] <Justin_CNC> on it
[01:51:57] <pfred1> linuxcnc has pecking sysles doens't it?
[01:52:05] <pfred1> cycles even
[01:52:19] <djdelorie> it's basically this: http://www.thinktink.com/stack/volumes/voli/store/specs/m115spec.htm but I don't buy it from them
[01:52:48] <djdelorie> I know someone who bought a roll just to split up for everyone in the group, and I got some of that
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[01:53:24] <djdelorie> the technique is the same regardless though, and you can buy it online, look for "dry film resist"
[01:53:36] <djdelorie> pfred: for pcb drilling you don't need peck cycles
[01:53:52] <pfred1> and you use the presensitized boards right?
[01:54:01] <djdelorie> no, I laminate the film on myself
[01:54:11] <pfred1> oh
[01:55:07] <djdelorie> pre-sensitized tends to be positive acting, not negative, and you'd have to drill through the film since, well, it comes pre-sensitized :-)
[01:55:28] <Justin_CNC> thanks djdelorie, I have been turned off by the cost of presensitized boards, that may be the trick
[01:55:54] <djdelorie> it's still not cheap, and you need a temperature-controlled laminator, and you still need to figure out the trick to getting it laminated without bubbles
[01:56:23] <pfred1> for a little while I decaled tractor trailers
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[01:56:32] <pfred1> we'd use a brush and a blowtorch
[01:56:50] <djdelorie> the trick with uv film is to hold it *off* the board as you laminate, so the air can escape
[01:57:18] <djdelorie> if you let it rest on the board as it goes through, it will have bubbles
[01:57:35] * pfred1 hears the voice of experience talking ...
[01:57:42] <djdelorie> yeah, lots of bubbles
[01:57:51] <Justin_CNC> heh
[01:57:55] <djdelorie> there's a couple of us on Homebrew_PCBs that have tried lots of ways and shared the results
[01:57:58] <pfred1> why not let your CNC machine apply resist ink directly?
[01:58:14] <djdelorie> because I don't have an 0.005" pen
[01:58:16] <pfred1> sort of like a plotter
[01:58:33] <pfred1> what are you making ICs?
[01:58:36] <Justin_CNC> now that would be perfect
[01:58:44] <djdelorie> some in the group do direct-to-pcb printing, where they pass the pcb through an inkjet loaded with etch resist ink
[01:58:54] <Tom_L> mmm
[01:58:54] <djdelorie> 5/5 rules is not *that* small
[01:58:57] <pfred1> yeah I seen hacked inkjets
[01:59:12] <Justin_CNC> yeah, I have seen that too
[01:59:30] <pfred1> you need special ink
[01:59:30] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/
[01:59:34] <Tom_L> download machine.exe
[01:59:36] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/sdram/sdram-toppcb.html
[01:59:38] <Tom_L> see if you like it
[01:59:48] <Tom_L> i was unable to find a link to it
[01:59:51] <pfred1> oh I hate this terminal
[01:59:52] <Tom_L> the site was sold
[01:59:58] <Tom_L> brb
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[02:00:02] <djdelorie> does it run on Linux?
[02:00:05] <djdelorie> too late
[02:00:15] <Tom_itx> no
[02:01:06] <pfred1> djdelorie my eyes are going buggy looking at this board
[02:01:15] <djdelorie> the serpentines are 6/6 rules
[02:01:31] <pfred1> I was just going to ask why the traces go like they do
[02:01:35] <djdelorie> that's the top layer of a home-brew four layer board
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[02:01:47] <djdelorie> SDRAM interface, the trace lengths have to be matched to 10 mil or so
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[02:02:05] <pfred1> ah so it is time delay
[02:02:18] <djdelorie> yeah, in the picosecond range
[02:02:22] <pfred1> kooky
[02:02:25] <djdelorie> or at least sub-nanosecond
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[02:02:43] <djdelorie> well "that's how it's done" as far as I can tell. Magic and math
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[02:03:39] <pfred1> I'd never make a board like that just on principal
[02:03:46] <pfred1> it's too small!
[02:03:49] <djdelorie> heh. I made that one just to prove I could
[02:04:14] <pfred1> it looks like a radiator
[02:04:16] <djdelorie> and this one: http://www.delorie.com/pcb/inkjet/insanity_II.jpg
[02:04:32] <djdelorie> that one is 5/5 rules, and yes, it worked :-)
[02:04:59] <pfred1> worked doing what?
[02:05:07] <pfred1> is it a listening device?
[02:05:32] <djdelorie> two oscillators at not quite the same frequency, feeding an XOR that fed a LED that slowly throbbed as the two signals went in and out of phase
[02:05:47] <pfred1> oh it is a throwie
[02:05:55] <Tom_L> haha
[02:05:57] <Tom_L> http://www.calculated.com/prd311/Machinist+Calc+Pro.html
[02:09:32] <Justin_CNC> I used to have a feeds and speeds program for my TI calc, need to find that again
[02:10:02] <pfred1> I have the formula
[02:10:07] <Tom_L> i got a pile of 'slide rule' calculators from trade shows for feeds and speeds and materials etc
[02:10:30] <Tom_L> that little handbook i posted yesterday should have it as well
[02:10:34] <pfred1> SFPM = PI X DIA X RPM / 12
[02:10:59] <pfred1> though i usually want to figure for RPM
[02:11:37] <pfred1> RPM = SFPM X ((12/PI) / DIA)
[02:11:56] <Tom_L> chip load
[02:11:57] <djdelorie> the formula is just math. It's the chip load that's magic
[02:11:57] <Tom_L> ipt
[02:12:17] <djdelorie> how many ipt ?
[02:12:24] <pfred1> djdelorie if the bit breaks you went too fast
[02:12:27] <Tom_L> that's the question
[02:12:34] <Tom_L> not always
[02:12:39] <Tom_L> you may be going too slow
[02:12:43] <pfred1> true with stainless it is backwards
[02:12:46] <Justin_CNC> Is machine.exe a 16-bit app?
[02:12:47] <djdelorie> there's a minimum based on how sharp the edge is, and a maximum based on how big the pocket is
[02:12:54] <Tom_L> i think
[02:12:59] <pfred1> stainless unless you cut it you work harden it
[02:13:00] <Tom_L> it's rather old
[02:13:19] <Tom_L> it came with my cad cam software
[02:13:29] <Tom_L> i wasn't even aware i had it for years
[02:13:51] <Justin_CNC> Heh, I will have to try it out later, all I have is my EMC machine and a win7 x64 here at the moment
[02:14:09] <Tom_L> Great Solutions inc.
[02:14:14] <Tom_L> duvall Wa
[02:14:15] <pfred1> can't Linux run old dos apps in dosbox?
[02:15:09] <djdelorie> I suppose
[02:15:23] <Tom_L> their domain is for sale now
[02:15:35] <pfred1> is there another one called dosemu or did I just make that up?
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[02:16:59] <pfred1> hmmm http://www.dosemu.org/
[02:17:21] <pfred1> sometimes i wonder if half the stuff i htink I know is real or not
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[02:17:40] <pfred1> oh man this stuff says it can run doom!
[02:18:02] <Tom_L> i'll take a pic of these 2 pages
[02:18:28] * pfred1 ran doom in Linux but without the music it just wan't the same ...
[02:19:03] <djdelorie> yum search doom
[02:19:14] <pfred1> did they ever get the music to work?
[02:19:28] <djdelorie> dunno
[02:19:43] <pfred1> it didn't when I tried it maybe my system was misconfigured was a long time ago
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[02:20:53] <pfred1> I run the darkplaces Quake engine in Linux it rox
[02:21:19] <pfred1> there must be 2,000 maps out there now
[02:21:52] <pfred1> though recently i couldn't get gtkradiant to support quake 1 maps it was a bummer
[02:23:13] <pfred1> ha ha darkplaces.x86_64
[02:23:33] * pfred1 likes Fedora ...
[02:23:56] <pfred1> though they really should have htop packaged
[02:24:34] <pfred1> oh today they do
[02:25:39] <pfred1> djdelorie I never did thank you for talking me into running this so thanks
[02:25:46] <djdelorie> you're welcome :-)
[02:25:53] <pfred1> so far its OK
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[02:29:03] <Justin_CNC> I have a question about mach3, how do they get around windows not being real time?
[02:29:20] <pfred1> they hijack the system
[02:29:43] <pfred1> mach runs in ring 0 and time slices windows
[02:29:57] <Justin_CNC> wow
[02:30:04] <Justin_CNC> so what does that break in windows?
[02:30:08] <pfred1> well it was the only way they could do it
[02:30:27] <pfred1> isn't mach full screen?
[02:30:52] <Tom_L> ok.
[02:30:58] <Justin_CNC> I guess, I have never used it
[02:31:12] <pfred1> I think when you're maching that is all you're doing
[02:31:23] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/calcs/inch1.jpg
[02:31:33] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/temp/cnc/calcs/metric1.jpg
[02:31:47] <Justin_CNC> Oh, I see what you mean :) Yes, it should be full screen anyway
[02:31:51] <Justin_CNC> are mach and emc related somehow?
[02:31:58] <Tom_L> no
[02:32:07] <pfred1> yes they are
[02:32:16] <pfred1> mach started with the nist code
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[02:32:50] <pfred1> the original nist code was public domain
[02:32:53] <Justin_CNC> Thanks Tom_L
[02:33:10] <Justin_CNC> Ok, so they branched quite some time ago
[02:33:15] <pfred1> how much of it is left in emc and mach remains to be seen today
[02:34:28] <pfred1> afaik even linuxcnc hasn't been able to track down everyone who's worked on the code
[02:37:02] <Justin_CNC> when did the name change from EMC to Linux CNC?
[02:37:17] <pfred1> /topic
[02:38:00] <pfred1> the third URL covers that
[02:38:34] <Justin_CNC> thanks
[02:38:39] <pfred1> np
[02:40:30] <Justin_CNC> go figure
[02:41:35] <pfred1> yeah times must be tough for IT on the Ivory Coast
[02:45:49] <Tom_L> i sorta recall it in it's infancy state
[02:46:57] <pfred1> yeah LinuxCNC could be easily confused with cloud computing there I'm sure
[02:47:27] <pfred1> check out the no vista sticker modification http://i.imgur.com/kK0M2.jpg
[02:48:02] <Justin_CNC> I saw a video on youtube the other day where someone was sharpening tooling with a 4th axis, can you run a 4th axis on EMC in "lathe mode" and "indexed" mode? Sorry, not sure on the terminology
[02:48:19] <Justin_CNC> haha
[02:48:28] <pfred1> if it is mechanical amd moves someone is using LinuxCNC on it
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[02:54:16] <ssi> bleh
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[02:54:47] <pfred1> ssi you have the PID blues?
[03:00:03] <ssi> no, i have the 'wtf why is it so hard to get a chuck off a JT arbor' blus
[03:00:05] <ssi> blues even
[03:01:01] <pfred1> I just about broke my RAS here trying to take the blade off it, then I realised it was left hand thread ...
[03:01:26] <ssi> haha
[03:01:49] <pfred1> it'd been a while since I'd changed that blade
[03:02:00] <pfred1> when I got the nut off i marked it
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[03:05:19] <ssi> I'm trying to setup a job
[03:05:39] <ssi> and I realized ten minutes in that the 7/16 drill won't fit in my 3/8" chuck that's on this lathe
[03:05:45] <ssi> I don't have anything bigger for this lathe yet
[03:06:22] <ssi> well, now I do cause I managed to get a 1/2" chuck off an arbor and on to another more diffrent arbor :)
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[03:23:13] <ssi> I need a brake resistor for my vfd
[03:23:19] <ssi> or to get the old mechanical brake working, perhaps
[03:27:32] <jdhnc> anyone used a yakasawa(?) f7 drive?
[03:38:05] <Nick001> the brake resister absorbs the amps genrerated stopping the motor. automation direct has them - did you solve the vactra 2 problem?
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[04:13:07] <ssi> Nick001: what was the vactra 2 problem?
[04:13:22] <ssi> Nick001: I have plenty of it... I was just talking about how I can't walk into a store and buy it
[04:13:45] <ReadError> i found a gallon size for like 15 or 18$
[04:14:40] <ssi> at enco... yea that's a good price
[04:14:49] <ssi> I paid like $23 from mcmaster, but I get everything overnight from them
[04:15:02] <ReadError> they got an amazon prime kinda thing?
[04:15:12] <ReadError> or you live super close
[04:15:42] <ssi> they have distribution centers in several cities, including atlanta
[04:15:52] <ssi> and for whatever reason, everything I order from them is always overnight
[04:15:57] <ssi> unless it's not in stock in atlanta
[04:16:08] <ssi> for odd shape stuff that's expensive to ship ups, tehy'll courier it for no extra charge
[04:16:12] <ssi> and then I get it same day
[04:16:22] <ssi> and if I NEED something same day, they'll courier it for a fee
[04:16:58] <ReadError> WAIT
[04:17:01] <ReadError> IM IN ATLANTA!
[04:17:21] <ReadError> sweet jesus
[04:17:23] <ReadError> thats going to be nice
[04:17:53] <ssi> haha
[04:17:55] <ssi> what part of town?
[04:18:05] <ReadError> well
[04:18:09] <ReadError> i *live* north
[04:18:15] <ReadError> but i work in the heart of the A
[04:18:17] <ssi> how far north?
[04:18:21] <ssi> I live in kennesaw, but work in midtown
[04:18:22] <ReadError> very north :)
[04:18:28] <ReadError> ellijay area
[04:18:32] <ssi> gotcha
[04:18:34] <ssi> that's not that bad
[04:18:37] <ReadError> ya
[04:18:40] <ssi> I mean, it's bad, but it's not like south carolina bad :)
[04:18:47] <ReadError> lol
[04:18:53] <ReadError> wheres midtown?
[04:19:00] <ReadError> i dont get this big city lingo stuff
[04:19:08] <ReadError> i work near phillips arena / cnn
[04:19:16] <ssi> I work FOR cnn :)
[04:19:17] <ReadError> whetever thats called
[04:19:24] <ReadError> wuuut?
[04:19:27] <ssi> but I spend most of my time at the techwood campus, up north of gatech
[04:19:30] <ReadError> i eat food @ CNN
[04:19:36] <ReadError> ;p
[04:19:44] <ssi> I'm at cnn center every other week for an afternoon, but that's about it
[04:19:54] <ssi> I work for turner, not cnn specifically
[04:19:59] <ssi> but I support cnn's software
[04:20:09] <ssi> i'm a tech architect
[04:20:23] <ReadError> i just do server admin stuff ;(
[04:20:33] <ReadError> but ill be back @ ga tech
[04:20:36] <ReadError> here in the fall
[04:20:42] <ssi> nice
[04:20:46] <ssi> what program?
[04:21:03] <ReadError> want to do masters in info security
[04:21:35] <ssi> cool
[04:22:51] <ReadError> where is mcmasters at ?
[04:22:57] <ReadError> what part of town
[04:23:27] <ReadError> i can have stuff sent to work
[04:23:33] <ReadError> if its like super close
[04:23:40] <ReadError> and they dont let you pick it up
[04:34:50] <ssi> I don't know exactly
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[05:22:23] <alex4nder> yoh
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[06:12:01] <ssi> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6WoCzcD_0
[06:14:15] <ssi> and on that note, gnite :)
[06:23:01] <djdelorie> sweet
[06:24:08] <Jymmm> FYI... OSX exploits http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Security/Mac-OS-X-Security-Must-Become-a-Priority-10-Reasons-Why-705108/
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[07:08:23] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:50:17] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:47:12] <mazafaka> morning, Loetmichel
[10:48:00] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: How do you think, gas for smooth surfaces for a 4-wheeler is OK? What if some smoking in the cabin?
[10:48:15] <mazafaka> I mean, gas tanks are below the cabin.
[10:50:40] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: IF the tanks are below the Cabin AND are open to the enviroment its ok in my opinion, 'cause gas is heavier than air, any leaks will "pour" down and dissoplve
[10:50:45] <Loetmichel> -p
[10:51:29] <Jymmm> ...right on top of the hot exhaust pipes.
[10:51:37] <mazafaka> oh, didn't check its gross weight
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[10:53:33] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: That UAZ spends up to 20 litres of benzine in off-road. Engine is weak and drivers tend to use high RPMs and have a momentum to get through the obstacles. And I plan to use it to get to the work as well.
[10:54:06] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: so what?
[10:54:31] <Loetmichel> 1m behind the engine the exhaust pipes are to cold to ignite anything
[10:54:46] <mazafaka> if only sparks
[10:55:59] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: the gas tanks should be "allowed" for car use
[10:56:22] <mazafaka> yeah, they will be bought with the certificate
[10:56:30] <Loetmichel> so they have a safety valve.
[10:56:42] <Loetmichel> then i see no problem
[10:57:05] <Loetmichel> maybe put some sort of heat shield between hot parts of the car and the tanks
[10:57:14] <Loetmichel> (exhaustpipe for example)
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[10:58:21] <mazafaka> exhaust pipe is at right of the frame, and gas tank(s) is at left, below the cabin, instead of the left fuel tank
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[10:58:48] <Loetmichel> that should be ok
[10:59:00] <mazafaka> Is it true gas is better than benzine? Benzine turns to gas condition and only then burns
[11:00:01] <mazafaka> Can't imagine my UAZ. There's one cheaper but in good condition. It's not the van though because van is too high for anything I possess.
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[11:03:40] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: better in which way?
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[11:06:02] <psha[work]> mazafaka: gas engines are not better, they are a bit different
[11:06:50] <psha[work]> usually they are cheaper to use since gas is not as expesnive
[11:08:19] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: thats relative becaus engines use about 30% more gas than benzine
[11:08:33] <Loetmichel> same car and engine
[11:09:51] <Loetmichel> at the moment in germany it would be cheaper 'cause the litre premium benzine costs about 185ct atm, the kg gas only 89ct...
[11:10:13] <Loetmichel> (tell me about the americans complaining about fuel prices)
[11:10:15] <psha[work]> Loetmichel: here we have (had in the summer) ~12rur/l gas and ~25 rur/l benzine
[11:10:30] <Loetmichel> whats a rur?
[11:10:34] <psha[work]> ruble
[11:10:40] <Loetmichel> ah, russia
[11:10:46] <psha[work]> eur ~ 40 rur
[11:11:02] <Loetmichel> psha[work]: tahts not fair..
[11:11:19] <psha[work]> wazzup man? :)
[11:11:28] <Loetmichel> i have just payed about 105 Eur for a fill of diesel on my Omega...
[11:11:41] <Loetmichel> 70 liters
[11:12:02] <Loetmichel> tahts about 1/12 of my monthly earnings :-(
[11:12:06] <psha[work]> diesel is nearly 20-28 depending on the place
[11:12:26] <psha[work]> near moscow and other large cities where lot of expensive cars use diesel it's not cheap
[11:13:09] <psha[work]> in distant parts of the country it's lot cheaper then benzine
[11:13:23] <psha[work]> however that's not up to date info :)
[11:13:41] <psha[work]> also not that prices were forzen to not annoy people before president election :]
[11:13:45] <psha[work]> s/not/note
[11:13:58] <psha[work]> so i guess +25% till summer end
[11:14:06] <psha[work]> s/guess/suspect
[11:14:11] <Loetmichel> its easter
[11:14:46] <Loetmichel> so the fuel prices in germany shoot through the roof as avery year
[11:15:00] <psha[work]> heh, at least you have better salaries :0
[11:15:01] <psha[work]> )
[11:15:07] <Loetmichel> right to the start of the easter holidays
[11:15:32] <Loetmichel> have we?
[11:15:34] <psha[work]> on my previous job i had ~250 eur/month
[11:15:58] <Loetmichel> i am a production manager in a mil-computer company
[11:16:08] <Loetmichel> and i have about 1200 eur a month
[11:16:37] <Loetmichel> after taxes
[11:17:27] <Loetmichel> my wife can easyly triple that, so we ARE not in any money trouble
[11:17:40] <psha[work]> heh, my wife still have ~300eur :)
[11:18:08] <Loetmichel> but paying 1100 eur rent a month wothoult telephone, heating and power my earnings alone would not be sufficient
[11:18:24] <Loetmichel> without
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[11:30:20] <Valen> 1100 rent? thaught about buying?
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[11:54:52] <Loetmichel> Valen: near Frankfurt am main
[11:55:02] <Loetmichel> i.e.: expensive
[11:55:17] <Loetmichel> its only a 100m^2 flat
[11:55:36] <Valen> I See
[11:55:43] <Loetmichel> 4 rooms + kitchen, toilet, bathroom
[11:56:05] <Valen> 4 rooms? sure you don't mean 4 walls? lol
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[11:57:23] <Loetmichel> living room , bedroom, my workshop (second bedroom), kids room (used as guest chamber, kitchen, toilet, bathroom, two balconys ;-)
[11:58:31] <Loetmichel> its about 10 km from frankfurt city, so the banksters commute from here
[11:59:04] <Loetmichel> two villages farther out you get the same flat for 700-800
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[12:24:45] <jthornton> www.f1-2000.co.uk
[12:24:58] <jthornton> guy just joined the forum
[12:29:48] <awallin> 1/4th size F1 engine !? ... oh well everyone is crazy in their own little way..
[12:33:14] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what if you buy some cottage with time?
[12:34:26] <mazafaka> Or in Germany cottage buys you? :)
[12:35:40] <Loetmichel> mazafaka: no money and no time to move
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[12:42:15] <ebe23> Can someone tell me the difference for the realtime builds and simulation builds of linux cnc?
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[12:46:20] <jthornton> afaik the simulation does not have the real time kernel
[12:47:24] <ebe23> This means the simulation builds cannot be used for real usage?
[12:49:09] * Loetmichel win8 customer preview executes in the VM...
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[12:58:09] <JT-Shop> what do you mean by "simulation builds"?
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[13:17:03] <cradek> sim means it's a build that does not require realtime extensions in the kernel, has no hardware drivers, and can not control machinery
[13:17:23] <cradek> everything else works, it just doesn't output the motion to hardware
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[13:40:31] <JT-Shop> I didn't know if he was talking about the sim configs or installing the linuxcnc pure simulator
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[13:41:40] <ssi> JT-Shop, cradek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT6WoCzcD_0
[13:45:26] <JT-Shop> what is the lump in the middle of your turret top plate?
[13:45:55] <ssi> it's one of the parts
[13:46:04] <ssi> the one I was doing initial programming with, which got ruined somewhat :)
[13:46:09] <JT-Shop> oh, it looked like someone welded something on
[13:46:22] <JT-Shop> cool vid!
[13:46:35] <ssi> my tools are loaded backwards
[13:46:42] <ssi> so they have to make a full rotation on each change :P
[13:47:01] <JT-Shop> that will learn you!
[13:47:18] <JT-Shop> btw, have you seen my cycle timer comp?
[13:47:26] <ssi> nope
[13:47:45] <JT-Shop> it displays the time for each part
[13:48:16] <ssi> nice
[13:48:17] <JT-Shop> and resets when you start the next part
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[13:50:43] <ssi> so my next challenge is rigid tapping
[13:50:48] <JT-Shop> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/time.9.html
[13:50:52] <frysteev_> NIPPLES
[13:51:05] <JT-Shop> the first one is always exciting
[13:51:11] <ssi> I need to make the complementary part to that part, which is 1.25" dia x 1.25" long, drilled and tapped M18x1.5
[13:51:24] <ssi> I'm sort of at a loss about how to hold that tap
[13:51:37] <JT-Shop> what is the shank diameter?
[13:51:45] <ssi> I'm hoping it's 5/8"
[13:51:50] <JT-Shop> LOL
[13:51:54] <ssi> :)
[13:52:18] <ssi> also the tap that he brought me isn't really great
[13:52:28] <ssi> and the tap DRILL that he brought me is too small
[13:52:55] <JT-Shop> a m18 x 1.0 is 13.75mm
[13:53:38] <cradek> ssi: awesome!
[13:53:46] <ssi> cradek: :D
[13:54:13] <cradek> those are sure neat little lathes.
[13:54:22] <ssi> they really are
[13:54:24] <asdfasd> ssi: did you setup your pid
[13:54:26] <ssi> I'm absolutely thrilled with it
[13:54:39] <ssi> asdfasd: it's working, but it's not perfect. I'll tweak on it more later
[13:55:15] <asdfasd> did it help reducing Kp
[13:55:23] <ssi> haven't touched it yet
[13:55:33] <cradek> it sounds right
[13:55:43] <ssi> cradek: talking about the spindle pid
[13:55:52] <cradek> ah
[13:55:55] <ssi> it's working ok, but on major speed changes it overshoots and bounces a bit
[13:56:12] <cradek> you're not using ddt of spindle position for the velocity are you?
[13:56:33] <ssi> hrm
[13:56:39] <cradek> you should use the resolver velocity output because it's index-safe
[13:56:52] <ssi> I'm using both resolver position and velocity I'm pretty sure
[13:56:57] <cradek> otherwise it'll go very wrong when you try to thread and position resets
[13:57:20] <cradek> I mean for your pid, you must be using one or the other?
[13:57:32] <ssi> using velocity
[13:57:33] <ssi> net spindle-vel-fb hm2_5i23.0.resolver.02.velocity => motion.spindle-speed-in => pid.s.feedback
[13:57:37] <ssi> net spindle-revs hm2_5i23.0.resolver.02.position => motion.spindle-revs
[13:57:43] <cradek> that's perfect
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[14:22:15] <ssi> I feel as though I require a breakfast
[14:23:15] <frysteev_> make me some too
[14:23:25] <ssi> you get that damn laser running yet?
[14:23:29] <ssi> get back in the shop
[14:25:40] <frysteev_> make me wafles
[14:25:52] <ssi> I'm just gonna go to dunkin donuts :P
[14:27:53] <ssi> how much power do forming taps take?
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[14:34:00] <ssi> cradek: do you have a chuck for your hnc?
[14:36:19] <cradek> ssi yes I have a 3 jaw
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[14:48:58] <ssi> I want to find one
[14:49:15] <ssi> or I guess spend $500 on a backplate and new chuck maybe :/
[14:50:49] <JT-Shop> I have a 4 jaw chuck for the CHNC
[14:51:06] <ssi> you also have a taperlock spindle, and chucks with taperlock backs are common on ebay :/
[14:51:22] <cradek> I also have a little faceplate
[14:51:36] <JT-Shop> yea, I bought it new from MSC... beat the salesman up a bit and got it for a nice price
[14:51:51] <ssi> JT-Shop: get the backplate from them also?
[14:52:14] <JT-Shop> no just the 4-jaw with the proper mounting
[14:52:37] <JT-Shop> I've also used the 5c extra large collets for some 2 1/4" diameter parts
[14:52:51] <ssi> I'm using step collets for some big parts now
[14:53:01] <ssi> I have a 2" step closer and about four collets for it
[14:53:11] <ssi> the part that I have to make next is 1.25", and I already have a collet to fit it
[14:53:16] <JT-Shop> what do they look like?
[14:53:21] <ssi> the collets?
[14:53:28] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:54:01] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/HARDINGE-3-5C-STEP-CHUCK-3-SPLIT-/170814670489?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item27c5590699#ht_670wt_1180
[14:54:05] <ssi> like that
[14:54:05] <ssi> only mine are all 2"
[14:54:18] <ssi> http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-Step-Collet-With-Pot-Chuck-South-Bend-10L-13L-With-Wrench-/300667847289?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4601334279#ht_500wt_1180
[14:54:21] <ssi> closer looks like that
[14:54:27] <ssi> sorta
[14:54:27] <ssi> heheh
[14:56:09] <JT-Shop> ok, that is what I have too
[14:56:45] <JT-Shop> the second one is better
[14:57:04] <ssi> yeah I have a closer for mine
[14:57:09] <ssi> I haven't tried the type that don't use a closer
[14:57:25] <JT-Shop> closer is the outside ring?
[14:57:28] <ssi> yeah
[14:57:37] <JT-Shop> I don't have that type
[14:57:39] <ssi> the big dia of the body of the collet has a taper
[14:57:45] <ssi> and the taper matches a taper on the closer
[14:57:57] <ssi> probbaly get a lot less spring with that style
[14:58:09] <JT-Shop> yea and grip better
[14:58:14] <ssi> cause without that you're relying on the 5C taper itself to hold the part
[14:58:19] <JT-Shop> lucky for me the part is 6061
[14:58:31] <ssi> ah
[14:58:42] <ssi> these parts are cold roll now, but eventually they'll start being 4130
[14:59:00] <ssi> I'm doing this little job for a guy that makes custom motorcycle frames
[15:00:14] <JT-Shop> cool
[15:00:35] <ssi> there's six different parts he needs made, but one of them I told him I can't do
[15:00:41] <JT-Shop> I can hold up to 1.625 with my regular collets
[15:00:44] <JT-Shop> that is nice
[15:00:53] <ssi> it's big enough that I have to use my clausing to do it, and it's so worn out that it's not worth trying
[15:01:00] <ReadError> they taig mini mills any good?
[15:01:01] <ssi> yeah I'm jealous of the 16C spindle
[15:01:08] <ssi> and the servo spindle
[15:01:16] <ReadError> the*
[15:01:21] <ssi> ReadError: they're small!
[15:01:30] <ReadError> yea
[15:01:44] <ReadError> anything in the hobby price range thats good and bigger?
[15:01:56] <ssi> what's your budget?
[15:03:01] <ReadError> 8-900
[15:03:49] <ssi> can you get a taig up and running for $900?
[15:04:09] <ReadError> oh derp
[15:04:12] <ReadError> i meant lathe
[15:04:17] <ReadError> sorry i *just* woke up
[15:04:23] <ssi> what are you trying to do exactly?
[15:04:23] <ReadError> i already ordered the taig mill
[15:04:29] <ReadError> some PCBs
[15:04:32] <ReadError> motormounts
[15:04:34] <ReadError> small stuff
[15:04:45] <ssi> you talking about this?
[15:04:45] <ssi> http://www.taigtools.com/mlathe.html
[15:04:56] <ReadError> yea
[15:05:18] <ReadError> i dont need to make stuff thats long really
[15:05:25] <ssi> I'd be pretty leery of it
[15:05:36] <ssi> rigidity is important in lathes, and that thing doesn't look remarkably rigid
[15:06:09] <ReadError> my idea was maybe i could work on building a gantry style router once i have a mill
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[15:11:46] <Loetmichel> grr. $me had to turn 2 new Collet keys because the original have dissappeared something... now i whish to hafe a knurling tool... -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13027
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[15:30:25] <archivist> I got a knurling tool and a dumore tool post grinder at the scrap yard yesterday :)
[15:31:29] <archivist> I need a belt for the grinder and the motor needs looking at before I apply power to it
[15:33:39] <JT-Shop> nice find
[15:36:44] <archivist> cant find any data on this particular grinder, it has two posts for its vertical adjustment seems an old model
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[15:44:39] <alex4nder> hey
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[16:06:05] <joe9> alex4nder: any tips about how to get the motor alignment correct?
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[16:06:21] <joe9> alex4nder: i followed the steps here: http://www.cartertools.com/millset3.html
[16:06:27] <ReadError> you could use a feeler guage
[16:06:34] <ReadError> and see if the gap is the same
[16:06:39] <ReadError> but i have no idea ;/
[16:07:26] <IchGuckLive> joe9: direct is always a miss
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[16:07:49] <joe9> IchGuckLive: what do you mean? i do not understand.
[16:09:41] <IchGuckLive> did you use a Rigid rotation coupling
[16:10:24] <joe9> IchGuckLive: this is with a taig. http://www.cartertools.com/cncml31.jpg
[16:10:30] <joe9> http://www.cartertools.com/cncml30.jpg
[16:10:34] <IchGuckLive> joe9: something like that http://img.directindustry.com/images_di/photo-m2/flexible-coupling-549267.jpg
[16:11:38] <IchGuckLive> oh im wrong its not the stepper its the spindel
[16:12:01] <IchGuckLive> you are asking for or
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[16:18:39] <joe9> IchGuckLive: sorry had a system freeze there.
[16:18:47] <joe9> had to reboot
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[16:20:17] <alex4nder> joe9: what problem are you running into?
[16:20:37] <joe9> alex4nder: nothing. just not sure how to position the motor wrt the spindle.
[16:21:03] <joe9> alex4nder: not sure if there is any thing to be aware of, other than what is on that website.
[16:21:03] <alex4nder> joe9: ah cool
[16:21:34] <alex4nder> no, just position it above the spindle attachment points, remember the washers, and don't over tension the belt.
[16:22:31] <joe9> there are only 2 washers correct? that is what I got.
[16:22:35] <alex4nder> yup
[16:22:43] <joe9> and, they go on top of the mount, as in the pics.
[16:23:20] <alex4nder> if you don't already own some, I'd recomment bondhus t-handle allen wrenches
[16:23:30] <alex4nder> to have around your mill
[16:24:27] <joe9> yes, i got them with the taig.
[16:26:03] <alex4nder> no you don't
[16:26:21] <alex4nder> they ship t-handle bondhus allen wrenches now? :D
[16:27:01] <alex4nder> http://www.bondhus.com/products/t-handles/body-0.htm
[16:27:05] <alex4nder> ^-- those things
[16:27:42] <ReadError> wow that would be nice if it came with those heh
[16:27:54] <ReadError> joe9: where in GA are you?
[16:28:47] <joe9> oh, those. yeah, i did not get them with the taig.
[16:28:50] <joe9> ReadError: atlanta
[16:28:56] <ReadError> i work down in ATL but wasnt sure if they had any good stores around
[16:29:04] <joe9> mcmastercarr, the best around.
[16:29:11] <joe9> they have willcall, easy to pickup
[16:29:13] <ReadError> yea ssi said they have a store
[16:29:18] <ReadError> but didnt realize i could willcall!
[16:29:22] <joe9> a bit expensive though
[16:29:28] <ReadError> how late are they open?
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[16:30:36] <ReadError> wow, i should have noticed the 404 number earlier on their site lol
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[17:00:18] <joe9> alex4nder: for lubrication, on the axis nut/rod, do you use grease? or, just Vactra on everything?
[17:01:12] <alex4nder> I use vactra.. grease has an annoying tendency to hold onto chips
[17:11:08] <ReadError> i need to get the gallon of vactra
[17:11:19] <ReadError> and a machinist square
[17:11:21] <joe9> i am off to mcmastercarr to get that.
[17:11:35] <ReadError> joe9: ask how late willcall is open if you go by ;)
[17:11:39] <ReadError> i cant find much on their site
[17:11:47] <joe9> what is the difference between the T-square at homedepot vs machinist's square?
[17:11:57] <joe9> 6pm, check their websit.
[17:11:58] <ReadError> scumbag work makes me stay until 6pm
[17:12:01] <ReadError> ;(
[17:12:12] <ReadError> i can probably head down another day or go on lunch
[17:12:51] <joe9> alex4nder: i used the "try square" from Homedepot for the z-axis alignment.
[17:13:18] <joe9> alex4nder: is that a bad idea? should i buy a machinist's square, instead?
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[17:17:24] <alex4nder> joe9: the machinists square is actually square
[17:17:29] <alex4nder> assuming you get a good one
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[17:18:52] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#machinists%27-squares/=gzn5fd
[17:19:21] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a11 is what I am looking to buy
[17:20:13] <alex4nder> yah, that's pretty legit.
[17:20:17] <joe9> alex4nder: ok, thanks.
[17:20:34] <joe9> any size that you think might be the most helpful for use with a taig?
[17:21:04] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a14 seems a good price for the size.
[17:21:17] <ReadError> im going with the 4x6 i think
[17:21:57] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a14 is a 6inch x 4inch
[17:23:51] <joe9> i think the 9 inch version might be more useful though.
[17:23:57] <joe9> http://www.mcmaster.com/#2278a17
[17:25:06] <joe9> alex4nder: which one do you have?
[17:27:31] <ReadError> deepgrove didnt look like he had a huge one
[17:28:25] <alex4nder> joe9: I have a 3", 4" and 6"
[17:28:50] <joe9> oh, why do you need all 3?
[17:29:18] <alex4nder> beause there are times when you want a shorter length, when you're doing setup/fixturing.
[17:30:04] <joe9> alex4nder: and, you used the 6" one to set the z-axis?
[17:30:13] <alex4nder> yup
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[18:58:28] <Connor> anyone here use KL-5056's ?
[18:58:50] <ssi> ReadError: did you figure out where mcmaster's willcall is?
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[19:28:54] <ssi> blahhhh
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[20:14:04] <ReadError> ssi: i need to find the address
[20:14:39] <ReadError> oh its off fulton industrial
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[20:48:58] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:49:12] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: G'MORNING!
[20:49:18] <DJ9DJ> good night! :)
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[20:49:53] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: BTW... gn8 == G'Nate
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[21:11:44] <stevegt_> Hey all -- does anyone know if there is any tutorial, HOWTO, or other docs for setting up 5axiskins and AXIS? Seems like this would be a FAQ, but I'm not finding it...
[21:14:01] <stevegt_> I haven't even been able to figure out yet if AXIS will be able to properly show a backplot for the rotary axes, for instance.
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[21:28:55] <ReadError> Your Amazon.com order of "Taig Micro Mill 2019CR" has shipped!
[21:28:56] <ReadError> ;o
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[21:42:24] <alex4nder> re..
[21:42:33] <alex4nder> ReadError: congrats
[21:43:52] <frysteev_> anyone here handy with 3 phase power on their machines?
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[21:45:36] <ReadError> dang
[21:45:39] <ReadError> false positive ;(
[21:45:46] <ReadError> they clicked it by mistake
[21:51:10] <syyl__> why, frysteev_
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[21:53:40] <frysteev_> is there such thing as a diy phase rotation idicator? :P
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[21:54:52] <Thetawaves> there are are circuits that can give you phase offset
[21:55:08] <syyl__> get a 3ph motor :)
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[21:57:30] <alex4nder> ReadError: that sucks
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[22:35:39] * Loetmichel is doing it the redneck way...
[22:36:13] <Loetmichel> last piece of 20mm aluminium... got a little error setting xy-coordinates for zero...
[22:36:53] <Loetmichel> ... recognized the error AFTER milling the 1/" bearing seat...
[22:37:17] <Loetmichel> but 2-minute-bi-Resin to the rescue...
[22:37:28] <Loetmichel> -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13030
[22:37:31] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[22:38:25] <Loetmichel> (the bit plastics in the bearing seat is not really a problem, its the side without fixed bearings ;-)
[22:40:00] <Loetmichel> 1/2" bearing seat
[22:46:45] <alex4nder> Loetmichel: haha
[22:46:58] <Tom_itx> a little error??
[22:49:37] <Loetmichel> wrong sign
[22:49:46] <Loetmichel> -3mm instead of +3mm
[22:49:54] <Loetmichel> in both x and y
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[23:02:30] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: what's holding that workpiece in place?
[23:02:40] <stevegt_> (looking at the photo)
[23:03:04] <Loetmichel> CyanAcrylate ;-)
[23:03:47] <stevegt_> ohhhhh.... what's that substrate then? not delrin or uhmw?
[23:04:35] <Loetmichel> the same 2-minute-bi-resin as in the repaired workpiece
[23:04:48] <Loetmichel> polyurethane resin
[23:06:14] <Loetmichel> its my "sacrificial workplate"
[23:06:59] <stevegt_> huh! that's a great idea -- probably doesn't translate to where I am very well (US), but what brand or source did you get that from?
[23:07:05] -!- LawrenceSeattle [[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:07:53] <LawrenceSeattle> hey. I see people are using servos for cnc. Is this just for really big machines? Most designs seem to use steppers...
[23:08:44] * stevegt_ looks at mcmaster.com under "polyurethane sheets", trying to figure out if any of it is the same thing as what Loetmichel is using
[23:09:54] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: servos work for big or small -- just different control circiutry, motors must have encoders, etc... used to be a lot more expensive than just open-loop stepper control
[23:10:20] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: look for Sika G27 Bi.resin
[23:10:28] <Loetmichel> -.+-
[23:11:01] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: what are people liking better? Seems like you would end up with pretty expensive servos...
[23:12:05] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: its a cheap, fast (2 minutes) resin for molding.
[23:12:17] <Loetmichel> and its thin as water
[23:12:29] <Loetmichel> ... for 1,5minutes ;-)
[23:14:12] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: but you buy the same thing in sheets as well? McMaster's catalog doesn't seem to understand that concept (and they don't usually show brand names) -- I've always had trouble sourcing any of the machinable resins, for that matter, at least around here
[23:14:42] <Loetmichel> no, i just moldet the plate
[23:14:46] <Loetmichel> molded
[23:15:14] <Loetmichel> i buy that in 1kg bottles for about 20 eur
[23:15:19] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: steppers are simplest to understand and control, so that's sort of the default for linuxcnc projects
[23:16:05] <LawrenceSeattle> ok, I can make boards and have reprap boards too. wonder if there's a good design I can use
[23:16:09] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: 1kg of that stuff is about how many liters?
[23:16:13] <Loetmichel> its cheaper than the heavy (green) ureol but has nearly the same properties
[23:16:19] <Loetmichel> about one liter
[23:16:30] <Loetmichel> it swims but barely so
[23:18:05] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: I resisted buying for a while, wanted to use purely open-source boards, but a friend convinced me to just go with the 4-channel gecko drive and matched steppers from cncrouterparts.com -- I'm glad he did -- I'm having a lot more fun trying to understand 4 and 5-axis milling instead of messing with motors and drivers
[23:19:42] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: yea I heard good things about the geckos
[23:19:48] <Loetmichel> stevegt_: two caveats of theat stuff: it shrinks a few % when hardening, so lage molds tend be go "banana" on you and it heats up while hardening, so dont make blocks thicker than 20 mm at once or it will stat to burn!
[23:19:55] <LawrenceSeattle> quite pricey though
[23:20:51] <Loetmichel> geckos are great but pricey
[23:21:07] * stevegt_ is looking up G27 specs
[23:21:47] <Loetmichel> if one has some experience with steppers one can buy the cheap chinese TB6560 stuff, but they have to be twaked to run smooth
[23:22:06] <LawrenceSeattle> I heard those boards sucked though
[23:22:51] <LawrenceSeattle> looking for something in between the two. Maybe $100-150 for electronics if possible.
[23:23:08] <LawrenceSeattle> I designed a reprap board so I could totally design one... but it's just easier not to
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[23:23:25] <asdfasd> the blue boards TB6560 are crap
[23:23:35] <stevegt_> Yeah, the price of geckos is what kept causing me to veer away from them. But they're good stuff, and I'm glad I spent the money. Sort of like buying a sherline mill instead of trying to cobble my own together from 80/20.
[23:23:57] <jdhnc> g540 is pretty damned cheap, relatively.
[23:23:58] <LawrenceSeattle> you guys prefer unipolar or bipolar steppers?
[23:24:15] <jdhnc> $229 for 4 drives, charge pump, breakouts, etc.
[23:24:24] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: cncrouterparts has 4 big steppers and a 4-channel geck for $600, total. I realized that would be hard to beat, so that's what I got.
[23:24:33] <stevegt_> gecko
[23:25:50] <stevegt_> yeah, the g540 is what I got, plus 4 steppers, 380 oz/in each
[23:26:03] <stevegt_> correction -- $665 for the set
[23:26:11] <LawrenceSeattle> nice. quite the beast. I just want to do pcbs though so probably overkill
[23:26:39] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: yes, those steppers would be overkill for PCBs ;-)
[23:26:42] <jdhnc> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/cnc-3_axis_4_axis_kits/g540-4-axis-nema23-381ozin-nema34-906ozin-48v7-3a-psu
[23:27:42] <jdhnc> oh, that includes a bigass 34 for Z
[23:27:43] <stevegt_> And here's the one I was talking about: http://www.cncrouterparts.com/4-axis-electronics-kit-p-75.html?cPath=22
[23:28:44] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: otoh, yes, even with PCBs you do need to worry about the Z axis motor torque, depending on how heavy the headstock is
[23:29:21] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: true. How geared down are these setups in the Z usually?
[23:30:40] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: remember that you want a high-rpm spindle/motor for the tiny little PCB bits -- 10k at least. That's going to push you into a palm router (heavy) or at least a dremel -- a normal mini-mill won't do it (sherline has a 10k option though)
[23:31:16] <LawrenceSeattle> yea, looking at the fireball v90. anyone use that here?
[23:31:28] <LawrenceSeattle> + palm router
[23:31:38] <LawrenceSeattle> wonder how much slop there is in that sort of a setup
[23:32:50] <stevegt_> the Z axis steps/mm isn't usually the issue -- you can't usually change that anyway for and off-the shelf mini-mill, which often has the same leadscrew ratio for x, y, and z, just to keep things simple
[23:33:05] <stevegt_> s/for and/for an/
[23:34:16] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: yes, you do want to care about backlash up front -- spend time on selecting for that, because again it's hard to tighten up a bad design later
[23:35:33] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: aren't leadscrew setups pretty low backlash? what do I look for?
[23:36:42] <stevegt_> For instance, my stock sherline has about .002-.005 inches of backlash in its various axes, for various reasons. Getting rid of all of it would mean redesigning both the motor mount thrust bearing retainer and the leadscre nuts themselves.
[23:37:36] <stevegt_> I wouldn't say the sherline has a *bad* design -- it's just a balance between cost and precision.
[23:38:34] <stevegt_> One way people have tightened it up, for instance, is replacing the stock brass leadscrew nuts with molded-in-place delrin or moglice ones.
[23:38:43] <LawrenceSeattle> well, I definitely need precision for pcbs. .002 would probably be tolerable. what would you recommend?
[23:38:56] <LawrenceSeattle> ah
[23:39:49] <ReadError> LawrenceSeattle
[23:39:52] <ReadError> i was lookin at it
[23:39:54] <ReadError> looks nice :)
[23:40:16] <LawrenceSeattle> ReadError: any idea how much slop to expect in that model?
[23:40:21] <ReadError> no idea
[23:40:27] <ReadError> i was lookin at them a week or 2 ago
[23:40:36] <ReadError> the wood kinda scares me though
[23:40:50] <LawrenceSeattle> well it's MDF
[23:42:32] <ReadError> i want the comet table kit
[23:42:37] <ReadError> but not the PC and stuff
[23:43:58] <LawrenceSeattle> yea PC just jacks up the cost unnecessarily
[23:44:08] <LawrenceSeattle> plenty of old PCs out there
[23:44:38] <ReadError> yea and they wont sell it w/o the PC :(((
[23:44:55] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: you saw that .007" in the "drive nuts" paragraph at http://www.probotix.com/FireBall_v90_cnc_router_kit/?
[23:45:49] <LawrenceSeattle> stevegt_: yea. wonder what the anti-backlash ones do
[23:47:22] <ReadError> where do you see that stevegt_?
[23:47:48] <LawrenceSeattle> dang the comet weighs 300lb
[23:47:55] <LawrenceSeattle> shipping must be killer
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[23:48:32] <ReadError> LawrenceSeattle: decided to get a mill
[23:48:35] <ReadError> and build my own ;)
[23:48:51] <LawrenceSeattle> yea probably cheaper
[23:48:56] <LawrenceSeattle> what mill?
[23:49:03] <ReadError> taig 2019cr
[23:49:19] <ReadError> smaller bed, but i can move stuff around to make the cuts i need i think
[23:49:35] <LawrenceSeattle> was looking at a proxxon mf70
[23:49:48] <ReadError> i think i saw that on amazon
[23:50:28] <stevegt_> LawrenceSeattle: looking at http://www.probotix.com/downloads/V90_antibacklash_nut.pdf -- looks like the anti-backlash option uses those springs to keep split delrin nuts compressed around the leadscrew threads -- closest thing to just heating the leadscre and molding the dlerin around it the way some people do with mini-mills
[23:50:31] <LawrenceSeattle> what sort of accuracy do you get with your taig?
[23:50:54] <ReadError> its not here yet
[23:51:01] <ReadError> but several folks here have em
[23:51:27] <ReadError> http://www.deepgroove1.com/engrave%20taig512K_Stream.mov
[23:51:28] <LawrenceSeattle> looks nice
[23:51:33] <ReadError> looks pretty accurate
[23:53:39] <LawrenceSeattle> have you seen any opensource designs like the comet? seems like you could just mill the connectors and buy the 80/20+hardware
[23:54:55] <ReadError> the linear slides seem the most expensive
[23:55:04] <ReadError> unless you use some kind of rolling bearings
[23:55:05] <LawrenceSeattle> makerslide
[23:55:43] <ReadError> oh cool
[23:55:48] <ReadError> it uses the 80/20
[23:57:08] <stevegt_> Loetmichel: I'm thinking that one of these castable urethanes might be similar (but not identical) to what you're using -- I'll have to try them: http://www.mcmaster.com/#casting-compound-resins/=gzrtfk