#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-26

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[00:00:25] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Mac-user on Ubuntu with Mac keyboard, pasting with command-V not Ctrl-V
[00:01:02] <FinboySlick> Hehe, it looks fine to me anyway. Do you get an error?
[00:02:17] <andypugh> Yes, but just that text has to be string, not int.
[00:02:39] <FinboySlick> Oh... I think you can use just str()
[00:03:16] <andypugh> I am trying something like "width %i",width at the moment
[00:04:01] <andypugh> Hmm, that might only work in print
[00:04:11] <FinboySlick> Yeah, just str(width)
[00:05:00] <FinboySlick> set_text(str(width))
[00:05:00] <r00t4rd3d> http://imgur.com/a/BHUsv#0
[00:05:00] <andypugh> I want "width 1234"
[00:05:09] <FinboySlick> set_text("Width: " + str(width))
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[00:05:45] <FinboySlick> There's probably a fancier way of doing it too.
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[00:06:35] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: It is possible I designed parts of that X-ray microscope, I was a mechanical designer at v
[00:06:37] <andypugh> http://www.nordson.com/en-us/divisions/dage/
[00:07:03] <andypugh> FinboySlick: Ah, OK. In VBA you use & for string concat
[00:07:34] <FinboySlick> You may not even need the str()
[00:07:39] H264 is now known as WalterN
[00:07:40] <r00t4rd3d> andy do you reddit?
[00:07:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/srohf/i_work_with_industrial_xray_systems_i_digitally/
[00:07:44] <FinboySlick> But most likely yo do.
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[00:09:36] <FinboySlick> andypugh: The fancy way: set_text('Width: %d' % width)
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[00:17:15] <andypugh> Ah, that was what I was looking for, though I have this, which works
[00:17:18] <andypugh> set_text(format("Width {0!s}".format(width)))
[00:17:55] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I think format() is the new preferred way of doing things.
[00:19:00] <andypugh> I think I have too many "format" words, but it works
[00:19:12] <andypugh> All the LinuxCNC Python uses yiour format
[00:19:23] <FinboySlick> Though you might have gone a bit overkill there. You can do set_text('Width {0}'.format(width))
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[00:20:34] <FinboySlick> Strings are objects, so you can call methods straight on the tail end of them.
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[00:22:44] <andypugh> OK, Happy for tonight, time to sleep
[00:23:22] <andypugh> I can read a bitmap and display the size. The rest is just programming
[00:23:45] <FinboySlick> Glad i could be helpful.
[00:23:54] <andypugh> Yes, thanks very much
[00:24:14] <FinboySlick> Heh, I still owe you a few.
[00:24:15] <andypugh> The trick was making "builder" persistent and class-global
[00:24:35] <FinboySlick> That's typically the main purpose of __init__
[00:24:47] <andypugh> Night all
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[02:47:04] <jdhnc> what triggers a following error on a stepper system?
[02:47:23] <MattyMatt> closed loop?
[02:47:27] <jdhnc> nope
[02:47:47] <Jymmm> goin faster than the setting
[02:48:02] <pcw_home> software or hardware stepgen?
[02:48:03] <MattyMatt> not enough juice
[02:48:11] <jdhnc> 7i43 stepgen
[02:49:11] <jdhnc> I just changed the max settings to see how fast it would turn.
[02:49:30] <Jymmm> that would do it
[02:50:05] <pcw_home> If you try to step faster than the steplen and stepspace will allow you eill ge a FE
[02:50:27] <pcw_home> s/eill ge/will get
[02:50:45] <Jymmm> pcw_home: steplen and space is an isue with mesa cards or ???
[02:51:08] <jackc> youll never know if you have error though in an open looped system
[02:51:14] <jackc> (except by looking at it)
[02:51:23] <pcw_home> issue? its how you set the hardware timing
[02:51:51] <jackc> Jymmm you set those values to be safe for your motors and loading
[02:51:53] <Jymmm> pcw_home: No no I mean what would be the limitation from going 200MPH?
[02:52:05] <jackc> torque
[02:52:15] <jackc> steppers torque decreases exponentially with speed
[02:52:24] <jackc> (simplified, but bascially)
[02:52:52] <Jymmm> jackc: bot torque isn't that much of an issue just jogging.
[02:52:53] <pcw_home> if I set steplen to 20 usec and stepspace to 20 usec (4 usec cycle) setting the steprate faster than 40 KHz will generate a FE (as it should)
[02:53:10] <jackc> Jymmm: it is if your motor torque is less than that required to move the screw!
[02:53:11] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 7i43 is paraport?
[02:53:17] <Tom_itx> ja
[02:53:23] <pcw_home> 40 usec and 25 KHz sheesh
[02:53:54] <Jymmm> pcw_home: 7i43 is paraport?
[02:54:10] <pcw_home> parallel port interfaced yes
[02:54:24] <pcw_home> (for linuxCNC anyway)
[02:54:37] <Jymmm> pcw_home: and pci version wouldn't have those timing limitations?
[02:55:13] <pcw_home> its not a limitation its exactly what its is supposed to do
[02:55:53] <jdhnc> steplen and stepspace are 5000, the drives say they only need 1.2uS though
[02:56:33] <pcw_home> so 100 KHz would be your max steprate at those settings
[02:56:40] <Jymmm> pcw_home: isn't 20uS a tad much? I thought those were paraport timings or is that 20mS ?
[02:57:07] <jdhnc> where is the 100KHz set?
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[02:58:02] <jdhnc> the drive says dirneeds to be set for 5uS before pulse, is that DIRSETUP?
[02:58:08] <pcw_home> its set by the fact you have 5 usec + 5 usec = 10 usec = 100 Khz rate minimum cycle time
[02:58:40] <pcw_home> 10 usec minimum cycle time = 100 khz rate
[02:58:47] <pcw_home> i should say
[02:58:48] <jdhnc> oh, so I have to limit step rate to below that via the axis limits?
[02:59:01] <pcw_home> yes
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[03:00:39] <pcw_home> the step generator hardware will not violate the step timing so if you ask it to go faster than that it will just go as fast as it can (and of course not keep up and generate a FE)
[03:01:27] <pcw_home> so if you set the steplen and stepspace to 100ns you can generate 5MHz steprates
[03:02:12] <pcw_home> but if you set the steprate to 6mhz you would still only get 5 mhz
[03:04:19] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Just as a sidenote... the funny thing is I can go faster using TurboCNC than I can using EMC =)
[03:05:09] <pcw_home> I can see that might be true for software stepgen, not hardware
[03:05:30] <Jymmm> ah
[03:07:26] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Not a topic of discussion for this eveing, but I stil have never figured out how HW stepgen works RT and why SW wouldn't work as well.
[03:07:35] <pcw_home> if you have 1.2 usec steplen and lets assume 1.2 usec stepspace. This allows a 416 khz steprate
[03:07:37] <pcw_home> i dont think this is even physically possible on a LPT port
[03:08:07] <jdhnc> I see no current docs for dirsetup/dirhold
[03:09:12] <pcw_home> the hardware stepgen is just a digitally settable oscillator so has no rate limitations
[03:10:34] <jdhnc> Likewise, if dirhold is changed from 1 to 3, there will be at least three periods between the step pulse and a change of the direction pin.
[03:10:43] <Jymmm> • 2 MHz step input
[03:11:04] <jdhnc> does that set the time between teh last step and the Dir change, or the dir change and the next step?
[03:11:37] <Jymmm> pcw_home: What would a "• 2 MHz step input" equival to uS wise?
[03:11:39] <pcw_home> dir setup and hold are in nS
[03:11:40] <Thetawaves> does linux cnc give a number of pulses to execute to a hw stepgen?
[03:11:56] <jdhnc> right, ignoring the time base change.
[03:11:58] <pcw_home> thetawaves, no
[03:12:11] <Thetawaves> how does linuxcnc know how many pulses the hw stepgen has made
[03:12:16] <Thetawaves> delta t?
[03:12:36] <pcw_home> it reads a pulse counter
[03:13:35] <Jymmm> pcw_home: Ah, 200nS pulse MINIMUM are my drives
[03:13:43] <Jymmm> step pulse
[03:14:07] <pcw_home> Jymmm: 2 mhz (500 ns period) could be 250ns steplen and 250ns stepspace
[03:14:27] <Jymmm> pcw_home: is that avg? slow? fast?
[03:15:19] <Thetawaves> 500ns is down into transistor switch speed limits
[03:15:23] <Thetawaves> i think you're fine
[03:16:04] <Jymmm> bbiab
[03:17:05] <Thetawaves> 500ns is 20mhz
[03:17:07] <Thetawaves> btw
[03:17:30] <Thetawaves> oops
[03:17:39] <Thetawaves> 2mhz as already stated?? wtf im tired
[03:17:58] <Tecan> i bought an emotiv today
[03:18:13] <pcw_home> so both the hardware and software LinuxCNC stepgens basically work the same:
[03:18:14] <pcw_home> digital osc (DDA) --> counter --> linuxcnc feedback --> DDA
[03:18:55] <pcw_home> so they are closed loop and can generate FEs (as jdhnc found out)
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[03:22:07] <joe9> ReadError: u around?
[03:24:10] <ReadError> yea
[03:24:13] <ReadError> bits came today
[03:24:27] <ReadError> i need to open the box still though
[03:24:34] <ReadError> i can get some pics here in a few if you want
[03:24:46] <ReadError> well actually let me grab them now 1 sec goin upstairs
[03:24:52] <jdhnc> does base_period affect hardware stepgen?
[03:26:43] <ve7it> Jymmm: you around?
[03:28:38] <jdhnc> nevermind,it's all in the man page
[03:29:10] <pcw_home> you normally do not use a base thread with a hardware stepgen
[03:29:26] <jdhnc> I was just wondering what all was limiting speed
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[03:34:38] <pcw_home> well...
[03:34:40] <pcw_home> 1. You cannot step any faster than 1/(stepspace+steplen)
[03:34:41] <pcw_home> 2. you need to set the stepgen maxvel about 20% faster than any linuxcnc requested velocity
[03:34:43] <pcw_home> 3. if you have significant servo thread jitter you need to set the stepgen maxaccel about 20% higher than LinuxCNC maxaccel
[03:35:20] <ReadError> joe9, http://p.twimg.com/ArYKES_CMAE-jWW.jpg:large
[03:35:47] <pcw_home> other than that the 7I43 will cheerfully generate step rate up to about 12 MHz
[03:35:52] <archivist> jdhnc, steppers lose torque at higher speeds
[03:36:17] <jdhnc> archivist: I know, just got new motors and drives.
[03:36:30] <pcw_home> (yes these are just electrical/setup limitations)
[03:37:45] <jdhnc> I set steplen/space to 1500, anything under ~16.8KHz works
[03:38:41] <pcw_home> what is the stepgen hardware maxvel set to?
[03:38:44] <jdhnc> that's what the scope says anyway, that seems to low
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[03:39:19] <jdhnc> max_velocity is 3.667
[03:39:30] <sjd> quit
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[03:39:34] <pcw_home> IPS?
[03:39:37] <jdhnc> yes
[03:40:06] <ReadError> got some switches today
[03:40:08] <pcw_home> thats LinuxCNC maxvel or the stepgens maxvel?
[03:40:12] <ReadError> need to get them setup
[03:40:17] <jdhnc> 8000 scale (5tpi, 200, 1/8)
[03:40:34] <jdhnc> that is the ini specified Max_velocity for the axis
[03:41:07] <jdhnc> the .hal is 2.1
[03:41:07] <pcw_home> doesn't mean anything to me
[03:41:28] <ReadError> is there a "go to home" command?
[03:41:28] <jdhnc> hm2_7i43.0.stepgen.00.maxvel 2.1
[03:41:35] <ReadError> i see an option to home, unhome
[03:41:48] <pcw_home> right so thats you limit
[03:42:07] <pcw_home> 2.1 IPS
[03:42:48] <pcw_home> = 16.8 KHz
[03:45:00] <jdhnc> gotcha.
[03:48:20] <jdhnc> the 7i47 seems to be pretty perfect for my config
[04:00:39] <Jymmm> 2.1 IPS?! I can fart faster than that!
[04:01:05] <Jymmm> whats that in IPM?
[04:01:07] <Jymmm> 120?
[04:01:25] <Jymmm> ok, not that bad I guess
[04:02:26] <pcw_home> but in any case it should be set about 20% higher than max_velocity so about 4.5
[04:02:58] <Jymmm> oh, tht's right to compensate for the snafu
[04:03:04] <Jymmm> I totally forgot about that =)
[04:03:11] <Jymmm> bbl
[04:04:06] <jdhnc> I set it to 4.1 for testing. These numbers came out of pncconf
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[04:19:53] <jdhnc> any guess on thread size?
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[04:34:22] <Jymmm> jdhnc: thread size of?
[04:34:44] <jdhnc> heh... of the G0704 Z lead screw
[04:34:56] <Jymmm> jdhnc: I'm not paying attenton to the conversation =)
[04:35:38] <Jymmm> are you trying to figure the rate?
[04:35:45] <Jymmm> (inversly that is)
[04:36:00] <jdhnc> no, trying to figure an easy way to attach a coupler to it.
[04:36:09] <Jymmm> metric?
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[05:37:35] <alex4nder> yoh
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[05:44:48] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[05:50:16] <alex4nder> how's it?
[05:51:02] <Loetmichel> bearable ;-)
[06:01:31] <alex4nder> haha
[06:02:00] <alex4nder> what're you up to?
[06:09:18] <Jymmm> about a 5th ;)
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[06:44:33] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:15:34] <Jymmm> Valen: ping
[07:18:21] <Jymmm> Valen: This is the charger I had seen (couldn't find the link yesterday) http://www.dealextreme.com/p/digital-balanced-li-ion-lipo-nicd-nimh-pb-battery-smart-charger-and-discharger-15225
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[07:55:00] <Valen> Jymmm: that one has the "adaptor" board built in
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[08:07:03] <Jymmm> Valen: when charging, do the large gauge wires come into play, or just the multi conductor cable?
[08:07:10] <Valen> both
[08:07:17] <Valen> large cables carry charge current
[08:07:29] <Valen> small wires carry balance current
[08:07:41] <Jymmm> balance cirrent?
[08:08:00] <Valen> say 1 cell reads 4.2v while the next one reads 4.1v
[08:08:01] <Jymmm> I'm assuming those types of charger are rapid ones
[08:08:32] <Valen> the charger will drain the 4.2v cell a little whilst still charging the pack as a whole, until the 4.1v cell hits 4.2v as well
[08:08:46] <Valen> overcharging a lithium cell at all will damage it
[08:08:48] <Valen> drastically
[08:09:01] <Valen> prolonged overcharge = flames
[08:09:05] <Valen> not nice flames either
[08:09:07] <Jymmm> oh so not like the RC Ni-CAD/Ni-MH packs
[08:09:13] <Valen> not at all
[08:09:15] <Jymmm> k
[08:09:21] <Valen> you need to treat lithium carefully
[08:09:28] <Valen> overdischarge = totally dead
[08:09:31] <Jymmm> Yeah. poof!
[08:09:48] <Jymmm> so better to charge when half drained?
[08:09:52] <Jymmm> or so
[08:10:05] <Valen> ..eeeh not so much
[08:10:13] <Jymmm> ?
[08:10:22] <Valen> each charge will take a cycle off their cycle life
[08:10:32] <Jymmm> oh
[08:10:37] <Valen> but if you charge to 4.1v rather than 4.2 it'll help with that
[08:10:53] <Jymmm> I have protected 18650's
[08:11:32] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-DcpANRFrI4#t=47s
[08:11:34] <Jymmm> Rated at 3.7, but DMM reads 4.soethign
[08:11:44] <Valen> 3.7v is the nominal voltage
[08:11:52] <Valen> range is ~2.7 - 4.2
[08:12:10] <Valen> it'll spend 80% of its discharge around 3.6 or so
[08:12:19] <Jymmm> ah
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[08:12:43] <Jymmm> I read 3.7 and tossed it on the charger
[08:12:49] <Jymmm> dmm
[08:12:55] <Valen> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vYn2lbBh0Q&feature=related
[08:13:28] <Valen> protected cells have circutry to stop over and under charging
[08:14:04] <Jymmm> Valen: Yeah, I'm just chicken and got the protected cells =)
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[08:14:24] <Valen> its a good plan if your trying to charge via solar panel
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[08:15:17] <Jymmm> Valen: I found a 110-220VAC / 12-24VDC charger, so I'll try that on the solar panel instead of directly.
[08:15:39] <Valen> how so?
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[08:16:17] <Jymmm> Valen: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ac-car-lithium-battery-charger-for-18650-100v-240v-12-24v-33912
[08:16:46] <Jymmm> Valen: I can connect the solar panel/charge controller to the cigar adapter on that charger
[08:16:48] <Valen> thats probably safer
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[08:17:06] <Valen> it'll be a dumb charger just cc/cv
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[08:17:17] <Jymmm> Valen: the DX one?
[08:17:20] <Valen> i wouldn't leave the batteries in there
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[08:17:25] <Valen> yeah the one you just sent
[08:17:48] <Jymmm> It SAYS it stops charging and LED lits when finished.
[08:18:06] <Valen> problem is when a cloud goes over it could start charging again
[08:18:25] <Valen> the micro ones will probably bitch about input undervolt and stop the charge
[08:18:29] <Jymmm> Oh, ew, I didn't even consider that.
[08:18:32] <Valen> do keep in mind lithium cells (paticularly A123/life) don't go flat just sitting there
[08:18:58] <Valen> thats the main reason I was saying these chargers are probably not the best way of doing the job you want to do
[08:19:09] <Jymmm> That 18650's can hold a charge for a year as I understand
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[08:19:20] <Valen> could do
[08:19:41] <Valen> I wouldn't bank on it but way better than anything else really
[08:19:50] <Valen> 18650 is a size of cell btw, not a type
[08:20:09] <Jymmm> I didn't think of clouds at all restarting the charge cycle.
[08:20:27] <Jymmm> 18650 to ME is just a size of Li-Ion cell.
[08:20:31] <Valen> the micro controller ones wont restart
[08:20:36] <Valen> they will probably sit there bitching
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[08:20:50] <Valen> i don't know what they will do if input voltage goes around 5v or so
[08:20:53] <Jymmm> ah, good to know. you mean like the one I linked to aboce?
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[08:21:00] <Valen> nothing good i think
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[08:21:08] <Valen> the first one yes
[08:21:30] <Jymmm> I think that one needs 18V too, I forget now.
[08:21:40] <Valen> up to 18v
[08:21:45] <Jymmm> k
[08:21:55] <Valen> I'd take a look at that panel output voltage open circuit
[08:22:08] <Valen> it could well be up around that in bright sun
[08:22:33] <Jymmm> Well, crap.
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[08:23:04] <Jymmm> I'd need a buffer in case of clouds. I didn't want a bulky setup
[08:23:22] <Valen> what is the use case your planning?
[08:24:02] <Jymmm> to be able to recharge the 18650's when no mains/car is available
[08:24:22] <Jymmm> backpack, etc
[08:24:25] <Valen> will you be with them whilst charging or leaving them unatended for days?
[08:24:55] <Jymmm> oh no, I'd never leave a Li-Ion unattended for days, maybe hours.
[08:25:07] <Valen> should be ok then
[08:25:20] <Valen> that second one you linked to would be how Id go i think
[08:26:14] <Jymmm> Yeah, I need a 12V charger just for the car. Figured I could just toss the solar panel on it.
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[08:27:03] <Jymmm> Well fudge, maybe I do need to use a 12V@7Ah gel-cell and tap off that
[08:27:12] <Jymmm> awful heavy
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[08:28:29] <Jymmm> Valen: Thanks, I'll have to think about this some more.
[08:28:44] <Valen> I still think the second one will probably work for you
[08:29:50] <Valen> though I'd think about sitting it on something that wont burn lol
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[10:35:32] <r00t4rd3d> Jymmm, you use 18650 batteries?
[10:35:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.batteryspace.com/Battery-holder-Li-Ion-18650-Battery-Holder-1S2P-With-2.6-long-20AWG.aspx
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[10:50:00] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: 1. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/100999
[10:50:38] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: 2 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/100997
[10:50:46] <Loetmichel> hmmm
[10:50:49] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: 3 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/100999
[10:51:00] <Loetmichel> why use a battery holder for 18650 liion?
[10:51:04] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: 4 http://www.dealextreme.com/p/103855
[10:51:13] <Loetmichel> they are not changed anywa
[10:51:15] <Loetmichel> y
[10:51:26] <Jymmm> changed?
[10:51:44] <Loetmichel> replaced
[10:51:55] <Jymmm> 14.8V@2Ah battery pack
[10:52:06] <Loetmichel> they are normally charged in the appliance they power
[10:52:29] <Jymmm> You remove them and charge invididually
[10:52:34] <Jymmm> becasue you can
[10:52:51] <Jymmm> carry spare and replace
[10:52:55] <Loetmichel> so /me uses a 40miliF Cap @ m80V to weld the wires to the endcaps ;-)
[10:53:09] <Loetmichel> -m
[10:53:42] <Jymmm> then you cant charge individually
[10:53:56] <Loetmichel> and then shrinktube to wrap the pack in
[10:54:03] <Loetmichel> -in
[10:56:01] <Jymmm> and i can create a multi-volt pack this way, replace/use/charge individual cells as I like, switch in/out to vary "pack" voltage, etc
[10:56:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: hmmm
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[10:57:01] <Loetmichel> i donbt
[10:57:04] <Loetmichel> grrr
[10:57:21] <viesturs> Hello!
[10:57:22] <Loetmichel> In my opinion its not a good idea to tear packs apart.
[10:57:35] <Loetmichel> the cells should be matched to each other more or less
[10:57:52] <Loetmichel> and whrer is the problem to fit a balancer plug to the pack?
[10:58:08] <Loetmichel> or buoild a balancher INTO the pack?
[10:58:19] <Jymmm> what am I gonna do if I want 5v to charge my cellphone?
[10:58:21] <Loetmichel> where , balancer
[10:58:23] <viesturs> Can anyone suggest a possible reason for a very odd problem: PC shuts down as soon as I press "run" for the default g-code file?
[10:58:34] <Jymmm> or 14V to run my radio?
[10:58:49] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: 2 cells and a 7805 and 2 Caps
[10:59:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: not with what you suggested of "keeping the 14V pack together" I couldn't
[10:59:42] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: or one cell and a stepup to 5v
[11:00:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: or use one cell for my flashlight
[11:00:34] <viesturs> I downloaded 10.04 + 2.5.0 livecd last night and the problem is for both running from livecd and also for installed version
[11:00:37] <Loetmichel> ok, for the flashlight i would have a seperate battery
[11:00:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: these are all seperate batterys
[11:01:04] <Jymmm> I can mix/match as my needs do.
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[11:02:14] <Valen> viesturs: that is a weird one
[11:02:24] <Valen> sounds like some kind of kernel level bug
[11:02:24] <viesturs> oh yeah, it is...
[11:02:25] <Loetmichel> i thinkt thats on everyones own opinion, do as you please, i do as i please ;-)
[11:02:29] <Loetmichel> @ Jymmm
[11:02:41] <viesturs> I have never seen mentioned something like that on mailing list
[11:02:42] <Jymmm> I plan on it =)
[11:03:06] <viesturs> I am now handwriting a test code file to see, what will happen
[11:03:21] <Loetmichel> viesturs: shuts down like power key üpressed or like power failure?
[11:03:26] <Loetmichel> -ü
[11:03:33] <Jymmm> Also, If I want 5V @ 8Ah, I cna paralllel the cells for longer duration too
[11:05:38] <viesturs> like power failure
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[11:06:07] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Sony CP-EL uses a single 18650 and just steps up for 5V output. Neat lil pack.
[11:06:16] <Jymmm> viesturs: paraport?
[11:07:01] <viesturs> no, 5i23
[11:07:41] <Jymmm> Unplug it from your CNC machine and hit RUN
[11:08:13] <Jymmm> the cable, not the card.
[11:09:34] <viesturs> handwritten test file ran ok, I tried just once, will try now something more
[11:09:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxO-_E8uqN4
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[11:10:28] <viesturs> I seriously doubt any problem with hardware - i can jog it around, I tuned servos last night, it was all ok, but today, when client wants to see machine in action, I get only "epic fail"
[11:11:30] <Valen> its not turning the spindle on or something?
[11:13:39] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: It's a neat little USB battery pack, I'm just thinking something a bit more universal voltage/capacity wise is all =)
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[11:14:45] <viesturs> with both spindle on and off, spindle is turned on by hand on vfd
[11:15:23] <Jymmm> only that ONE gcode file causes issues?
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[11:22:21] <Jymmm> Valen: Heh, 5 days in UK... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6l8V2SjDv4&feature=related
[11:23:55] <Valen> 5 days?
[11:24:13] <Jymmm> Valen: That's what he said in the video =)
[11:24:22] <Valen> i skipped through it
[11:24:31] <Jymmm> Valen: dont do that
[11:24:40] <Valen> eh i have other things to do
[11:24:46] <Jymmm> no you dont
[11:25:04] <Valen> yeah i really do
[11:25:33] <Jymmm> lol
[11:25:34] <viesturs> Jymm: currently the issue is caused by the default "linuxcnc" g-code script. I am testing with my handwritten files and it is ok
[11:25:54] <Valen> I wonder if its something out of the config lines
[11:26:49] <Jymmm> cradek: jepler alex_joni viesturs says he's having issues with the default linuxcnc gcode file, can someone take a look or chat with him about it?
[11:27:26] <jthornton> the splash screen file was not meant to run just to display linuxcnc
[11:27:31] <Jymmm> viesturs: Also, doens't it say not to run that file?
[11:28:06] <Jymmm> jthornton: Then maybe it needs to be change to one that CAN be run.
[11:28:28] <jthornton> if you insist on running it there is a tip on how to do so in the file or at least there was
[11:28:36] <Jymmm> ah
[11:28:47] <Valen> jthornton: it should cause the host machine to reset?
[11:29:08] <jthornton> no, just give a soft limit error
[11:29:21] <Valen> the problem he is having is the machine resetting
[11:29:44] <Valen> "(21:05:38) viesturs: like power failure"
[11:29:45] <jthornton> you mean the PC is shutting down and restarting?
[11:29:54] <Jymmm> jthornton: correct
[11:30:08] <Valen> thats not how a power failure sounds to me
[11:30:09] <Jymmm> jthornton: as soon as he hits RUN
[11:30:18] <jthornton> I don't see how a G code file can cause that
[11:30:28] <Valen> thats the curious part
[11:30:49] <jthornton> unless there is a endless loop perhaps that would look like a freeze up
[11:31:18] <Jymmm> I thought a short somewhere
[11:31:32] <Jymmm> short 5v line and the PS will shut down
[11:31:38] <Tom_itx> software short?
[11:31:50] <jthornton> could well be a wiring issue
[11:32:00] <Jymmm> He's using a PCI mesa card
[11:32:08] <Jymmm> 5i
[11:32:27] <viesturs> No, it behaves like this: I press the "run" button for default code, Z starts to move and PC just shuts off as if the power was unplugged. It does not reboot, I have to turn on afterwards. Tried at least 6 times, all the same
[11:32:57] <Valen> really does sound like a short
[11:32:59] <viesturs> jthornton: handwritten files work ok
[11:33:12] <Jymmm> viesturs: are you using any USB or 5V lines from the PC to the machine?
[11:33:14] <Valen> how are you powering the mill controllers?
[11:33:18] <jthornton> that has to be hardware
[11:33:26] <viesturs> it shuts off within 1 second after pressing "run" button
[11:33:31] <Jymmm> viesturs: are you using any USB or 5V lines from the PC to the machine?
[11:34:03] <Jymmm> or 12V for that matter
[11:34:24] <viesturs> if it was hardware, I would have issues with handwritten files as well. And I would have trouble jogging the machine around. I can jog 3 axes simultaneously with keyboard without problems
[11:34:29] <Tom_itx> what? you can't run steppers off the pc 12v??
[11:34:45] <viesturs> Jymm: yes, encoder power is +5V from PCs PSU
[11:34:51] <jthornton> if it was software thousands of people would have the same problem
[11:34:52] <Valen> Tom_itx: no, your very naughty when you do ;-P
[11:35:04] <viesturs> and 12V from PCs PSU for limit switch power
[11:35:06] <jthornton> I just ran the splash code here with no problesm
[11:35:13] <viesturs> machine has 3 servos and 2 steppers
[11:35:21] <Jymmm> viesturs: Ok, again like I originally mentioned... Unplug the mesa card from your cnc and hit RUN
[11:35:43] <Jymmm> including the 5V lines
[11:35:49] <Valen> Jymmm: it'll just ferror more than likley
[11:35:54] <viesturs> jthornton: that is exactly why I stated it as "very odd problem", because I have not seen any other reports on mailing list about this
[11:35:56] <Valen> and it won't move at all
[11:35:59] <jthornton> Jymmm, the config will not run without the mesa card in the pci slot
[11:36:02] <Valen> viesturs: hard acceleration could well be tripping something
[11:36:11] <Jymmm> jthornton: not the card, the cbales
[11:36:12] <Valen> do a series of G0's up and down
[11:36:25] <Valen> or G0 max distance diagonal
[11:36:38] <viesturs> Jymm - it won't work, because then encoder signals will not be received by LinuxCNC
[11:36:49] <Jymmm> viesturs: doesn't matter, just try it
[11:36:59] <viesturs> valen: thanks, I will try reducing it 2 times
[11:37:07] <Valen> see if you can re-cause it
[11:37:19] <Valen> if you can reliably cause it then you can work out what's causing it
[11:37:23] <viesturs> I will not be able to home machine at first...
[11:37:30] <Valen> eh
[11:37:39] <Valen> we went for years without homing lol
[11:37:57] <Jymmm> viesturs: Just unplug the cables and hit run
[11:38:06] <Valen> Jymmm: it will just ferror
[11:38:08] <viesturs> i guess not with servos
[11:38:15] <Jymmm> Valen: I DONT CARE
[11:38:24] <Tom_itx> seems we are stuck in an endless loop here
[11:38:32] <Jymmm> JUST DO IT FUCK! It's damn test already!
[11:38:56] <Valen> if you increase your ferror numbers a whole bunch it should let you run it
[11:39:04] <Valen> viesturs: yes with servos
[11:39:20] <Valen> homing just lets emc know where it is in the milling area
[11:39:34] <Valen> we didn't have limit switches either
[11:39:41] <Valen> still don't actually
[11:40:03] <archivist> viesturs, you dont have isolation if you are joining grounds using the pc supply like that, may have electrical noise problems too
[11:40:55] <Valen> archivist: i think thats probably the cause of the problem, not that he is sharing grounds nescicarily
[11:41:00] <Valen> just large loops
[11:41:18] <jthornton> viesturs, you say your using the PC power supply for your limit switches?
[11:41:46] <viesturs> yes
[11:42:10] <Jymmm> viesturs: Did you unplug the cables and hit RUN yet?
[11:42:20] <viesturs> no!
[11:42:42] <Jymmm> viesturs: FOR FUCK SAKE, IT'S A DAMN TEST JUST DO IT ALREADY
[11:43:00] <Valen> viesturs: Jymmm is prone to being like this
[11:43:02] * jthornton hands Jymmm a doggy downer
[11:43:12] <Jymmm> If you ht RUN and the PC doens't shut down, you have isolated the issue
[11:43:17] <archivist> Jymmm, switches wont be connected all will not work, test invalid
[11:43:36] <Valen> he says it runs for a second before failing
[11:43:50] <archivist> typical noise problem
[11:44:00] <Valen> thats really what it sounds like
[11:44:36] <archivist> and also possibly pulling his supplies down due to incorrect use
[11:45:03] <jthornton> that's what it sounds like
[11:45:42] <Jymmm> You can keep tlaking about it, or he could just unplug the cables and verify it.
[11:46:08] <archivist> Jymmm, the config will not run at all!
[11:46:16] <Jymmm> it doesn thave to
[11:46:31] <Jymmm> archivist: When he hits RUN, the pc tuns off
[11:46:31] <archivist> please be getting a clue about the set up
[11:47:41] <Jymmm> archivist: It doesnt have to actualyl do anything other than stay powered on when he hits RUN.
[11:47:53] <Jymmm> thats it
[11:48:19] <archivist> jymm I know and loading due to bad wiring will load supplies
[11:48:53] <Jymmm> archivist: Sure, but unpluging the cables is a simple verifyable test.
[11:49:20] <archivist> but what does it test!
[11:49:42] <Jymmm> Isolates the issue of controller vs machine.
[11:50:07] <Jymmm> 30s test and 20m discussion, for fucks sake.
[11:50:20] <archivist> the controller wont run when it is unplugged...oh I said that already
[11:50:43] <Jymmm> archivist: IT DOES NOT HAVE TO, it just has to stay powered on.
[11:50:59] <Jymmm> it can error or do nothing all day long.
[11:51:07] <Jymmm> jsut stay powered on
[11:51:45] <archivist> and have you diagnosed anything if it says on....no/yes/dont have a clue
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[12:13:03] <joe9> ReadError_: how do you want me to pick them up?
[12:13:12] <joe9> ReadError_: thanks for the pics.
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[12:19:07] <joe9> to use gcode from useful-subroutines.ngc, should I just copy that code to my .ngc file? or, is there a way to include that gcode in my current .ngc file?
[12:19:16] <joe9> like a #include or something like that.
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[12:23:32] <jthornton> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/o-code.html
[12:24:15] <viesturs1> Jymmm, I have no clue ow, but You were right. With detached hardware the default code started correctly, with attached hardware it switched off as soon as first move (G1 Z3) was about to end
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[12:27:24] <archivist> viesturs1, what amperage loads do you have on 12v and usb 5v
[12:28:50] <viesturs1> 5V have 3 USDigital E8 encoders, 3 differencial-to-singleended decoders, 2 Gecko drives, two 7i39s, one 5i23;
[12:29:05] <archivist> amps not a parts list
[12:29:23] <viesturs1> I understand that, but I do not know, how to measure that
[12:29:39] <viesturs1> I have connected them to 3 different plugs
[12:29:54] <viesturs1> that is 500W PSU
[12:30:37] <archivist> add up the requirements of each device
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[12:32:18] <archivist> note the limits of each supply, total wattage is not that relevant
[12:33:01] <joe9> jthornton: the useful-subroutines.ngc has more than one sub. I guess that means I cannot use o<useful-subroutines.ngc> call , as gcode would not know which sub to call.
[12:33:14] <archivist> is your 12v also supplying relays you mentioned the other day
[12:34:46] <jthornton> right you would have to create a file for each one or copy them into your G code file
[12:34:50] <viesturs1> archivist: yes, I should sum up requirements of each device. That is why I started listing them, because I do not know, where to see, how much does encoder need for its power.
[12:35:08] <joe9> jthornton: ok, thanks. just wanted to make sure I was not missing anything.
[12:35:11] <archivist> the datasheet
[12:35:43] <viesturs1> archivist: yes, there is one relay, but it is not turned on, when milling spindle is attached to the machine. It is for laser burning diode, which is not attached
[12:37:01] <Jymmm> viesturs1: Cool. Try an amp meter.
[12:38:54] <Jymmm> viesturs1: do you have limit switchs on your Z ?
[12:39:22] <viesturs1> yes, the limit switch is also home swithc for Z, remaining joints have dedicated home switches
[12:40:32] <Jymmm> viesturs1: Can you disconnect the Z switches cabling from the rest of the circuit at that FARTHEST end from the switches themselves?
[12:41:22] <viesturs1> That would be extra difficult. What is the purpose - to test, if something is induced in those wires?
[12:41:41] <viesturs1> Actually X limit switch is connected in the same circuit very close to Z switch
[12:42:20] <viesturs1> I have all them wired in series through NC contacts and connected to a single input pin
[12:42:28] <Jymmm> viesturs1: Well, disconnect em all temporarily as a test
[12:42:37] <viesturs1> ok
[12:42:40] <joe9> anyone used the o200 (slot subroutine) of useful-subroutines.ngc? why does it need a parameter for width? Isn't width = x2 - x1?
[12:42:55] <joe9> or, is "width" something else?
[12:44:19] <Jymmm> Is "width" like kerf as opposed to length of slot?
[12:44:40] <joe9> Jymmm: what is 'kerf'? let me google it.
[12:44:50] <Jymmm> 1/8' tooling creating a 1/4" wide slot, 2" long as exmaple
[12:45:03] <Jymmm> 1/8"
[12:47:17] <joe9> Jymmm: it seems to be a tool specific parameter? is it? can it be calculated?
[12:48:00] <Jymmm> joe9: I have no clue, I was just asking if the definition of "width" could mean something other than what you might be thinking it is.
[12:48:01] <joe9> my HSS cutter radius = 0.0625
[12:48:30] <joe9> Jymmm: oh, ok. I misunderstood it
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[12:52:20] <viesturs1> I just tested with disconnected limit switch circuit - it still powered off the PC
[12:53:24] <viesturs1> can anyone send me over some sample g-code file?
[12:53:35] <viesturs1> does not really matter, what is there
[12:53:50] <viesturs1> preferrably with more than 20 moves
[12:53:56] <viesturs1> just for testing
[12:55:01] <joe9> jdhnc: from some old linuxcnc logs, you seem to have experience with slots. any thoughts on what "width" (5th parameter) to o200 of useful-subroutines.ngc means?
[13:02:49] <jdhnc> never seen useful subs
[13:03:07] <jdhnc> see what arg5 does
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[13:05:23] <jdhnc> or just load it with 10, then with 100 and see what changes
[13:07:17] <joe9> jdhnc: i tried that. though it shows a bigger rectangle. I cannot see it making a slot.
[13:07:27] <joe9> s/bigger/wider/
[13:07:38] <jdhnc> isn't the rectangle teh slot?
[13:08:04] <joe9> i was thinking that the slot would be where all the center is removed off?
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[13:09:09] <joe9> ie., where everything in the inner rectangle would be milled away.
[13:10:02] <jdhnc> that would be my take also.
[13:10:25] <joe9> jdhnc: but, the backplot just shows the edges being milled away.
[13:10:39] <jdhnc> no backplot here, can't help with that.
[13:11:14] <joe9> jdhnc: this is the .ngc file: http://codepad.org/IDqQGDrc
[13:11:36] <joe9> and the o200, I copied it from useful-subroutines.ngc
[13:14:20] <joe9> that sub is not making a slot, just an inner rectangle, it appears.
[13:14:50] <joe9> jdhnc: do you have any slot making gcode that you do not mind sharing?
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[13:18:08] <archivist> viesturs1, linuxcnc comes with sample code
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[13:19:07] <archivist> viesturs1, you do have a multimeter? so you can measure currents
[13:20:30] <joe9> viesturs1: sample gcode http://codepad.org/ytcZZ3La to make a rectangle
[13:20:33] <joe9> s/make/mark/
[13:21:01] <joe9> viesturs1: does not have 20 moves, i think.
[13:24:11] <jdhnc> why the G10 there vs. just touch off?
[13:28:23] <viesturs1> joe9: it is all right, found the problem with powering off the PC
[13:28:42] <viesturs1> I had shortwiring
[13:29:21] <joe9> jdhnc: same thing, imho. easy to have it programmed instead of manual touch off, think
[13:31:01] <archivist> joe9, you probably wont want touch off in programs, think about multiple copies of an item
[13:31:45] <joe9> jdhnc: s/think/I think/
[13:33:44] <jdhnc> joe: you are doing the same thing, just more painfully with hardcoded touch off values.
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[13:45:23] <FinboySlick> Any of you guys know of shops that do small-run molded cable connectors? I need a strange rj-11 to 1/8 stereo jack that would be able to take lots and lots of abuse.
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[13:51:19] <jdhnc> no clue. How about a blocky adapter with female rj11 and 1/8
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[14:00:00] <FinboySlick> RJ11 bit has to be male and it's unlikely to fit... Though some sort of solid design might work if it's slim enough.
[14:02:41] <FinboySlick> Some sort of pcb-mountable rj11 plug... That's going to be hard to find though.
[14:09:07] <archivist> why rj11, its designed for static use indoors not rough handling
[14:09:50] <FinboySlick> archivist: Motorola apparently thought it was a great idea for outdoor units too.
[14:09:57] <jdhnc> rj45 is the wrong answer to most any cabling question
[14:22:48] <joe9> ReadError_: where art thou?
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[14:42:35] <JT-Shop> have you lost him?
[14:54:07] <skunkworks> JT-Shop: how was the trip? or whatever you did
[14:59:30] <ReadError_> joe9: just woke up
[15:00:05] <joe9> ReadError_: i am travelling from Atl this afternoon and will be back on Mon evening.
[15:00:45] <joe9> ReadError_: how do you want to do the transfer? Or, should I just mail you a check and you mail the stuff to me (usps). or, should we do this on mon evening or tue?
[15:01:11] <ReadError_> joe9: ill be at work monday, tue, wednesday
[15:01:33] <joe9> how about today? in the next hour or two? available?
[15:01:47] <ReadError_> im like 80 miles outside of atlanta ;/
[15:01:51] <joe9> oh, ok.
[15:01:58] <ReadError_> yea its a drive
[15:02:03] <joe9> let's do it on mon or tue.
[15:02:19] <joe9> i will ping you when I am back. can you bring them with you to work on Mon?
[15:02:21] <ReadError_> alright
[15:02:24] <ReadError_> you see the pic?
[15:02:27] <ReadError_> sure thing
[15:02:32] <joe9> yes, I saw it.
[15:02:35] <joe9> thanks for that.
[15:02:44] <ReadError_> got any pics of how you mounted your switches?
[15:03:49] <joe9> not yet. will see if I can find the cam.
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[15:05:03] <JT-Shop> skunkworks: long but fun to see family
[15:05:26] <JT-Shop> total driving of 2,500 miles
[15:08:38] <ReadError_> i wish there was something more efficient for conterting pngs to gcode
[15:08:49] <ReadError_> the image-to-gcode still makes full passes
[15:09:04] <ReadError_> even if the tool isnt used
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[15:26:09] <skunkworks> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/134713
[15:26:31] <skunkworks> Darwin is machs next generation printer port driver.
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[16:09:48] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[16:22:00] <jdhnc> I thought darwin was macos or something
[16:22:58] <TekniQue> Darwin was a release of macos without the gui
[16:23:10] <TekniQue> just the mach kernel and basic shit to make it work
[16:26:17] <ReadError_> do they have a razor blade spindle attachment?
[16:27:02] <ReadError_> i was wondering if i could do a vinyl cut
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[16:27:26] <jdhnc> drag knife or tangential knife
[16:28:14] <ReadError_> oh awesome
[16:28:15] <ReadError_> thats it
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[16:59:49] <joe9> ReadError_: imgur.com/a/xDlCa
[16:59:52] <joe9> switches pics
[17:00:32] <joe9> http://i.imgur.com/8AiGIh.jpg?1 is the Z-axis switch
[17:00:42] <joe9> http://i.imgur.com/6sp3Mh.jpg?1 is the X-axis switch
[17:00:56] <joe9> http://i.imgur.com/QLvQjh.jpg?1 same thing as the above
[17:01:08] <joe9> http://i.imgur.com/nSOVbh.jpg?1 y-axis switch
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[17:01:36] <ReadError_> did you use that exterior double sided tape?
[17:01:54] <TekniQue> I don't like mechanical switches for homing
[17:02:00] <TekniQue> they're fine for limits
[17:02:16] <joe9> ReadError_: for the Z-axis, there is nothing holding it other than that double-sided tape.
[17:02:21] <ReadError_> what do you use TekniQue?
[17:02:26] <TekniQue> inductive sensors
[17:02:37] <joe9> for the X-axis, both double sided tape and the clamp.
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[17:03:59] <joe9> TekniQue: any pics/
[17:04:10] <joe9> TekniQue: any pics, please?
[17:05:34] <ReadError_> hmm i got roller switches
[17:05:35] -!- davec has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
[17:05:38] <ReadError_> i saw those at frys though
[17:06:54] <TekniQue> joe9: http://www.asi-ez.com/pix/Prod/cap-metal.gif
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[17:07:10] <ReadError_> how much do those suckers run?
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[17:07:29] <TekniQue> inductive proximity sensors
[17:07:41] <TekniQue> I think you can get them for about 30 bucks from china these days
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[17:07:58] <TekniQue> they're more accurate than microswitches
[17:08:17] <ReadError_> wow like 60$ each on that site
[17:08:37] <IchGuckLive> TekniQue: howmany volts do they need
[17:10:19] <Jymmm> ore importantly they need steel, not aluminum =)
[17:10:21] <Jymmm> More
[17:11:12] <ReadError_> joe9: how hard was it to get the homing sequence setup?
[17:12:08] <TekniQue> IchGuckLive: 5V or more
[17:12:23] <TekniQue> I think the ones I use take 5-30V
[17:12:26] <alex4nder> hey
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[17:12:45] <TekniQue> the output is open collector NPN
[17:15:15] <ReadError_> TekniQue
[17:15:18] <ReadError_> you use mastercam?
[17:16:28] <IchGuckLive> TekniQue: are you shure they work at 5V mine only at min 15V
[17:17:07] <TekniQue> ReadError_: no I use cambam
[17:17:16] <TekniQue> IchGuckLive: I'm not sure
[17:17:22] <TekniQue> I run mine on 12V
[17:18:03] <ReadError_> dang trials
[17:18:23] <ReadError_> setting up a winxp guest on my esxi box, taking snapshot
[17:18:29] <ReadError_> free for life ;)
[17:19:22] <Jymmm> Against the EULA
[17:19:41] <ReadError_> yea well paying 150$ for software is against my morals
[17:19:46] <ReadError_> and budget
[17:20:05] <Jymmm> Software cheaper than attorney
[17:20:35] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: ther is bunch of free stuff available
[17:20:40] <Jymmm> I'm just sayin =)
[17:20:44] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive
[17:20:51] <ReadError_> i dont like how image to gcode does it
[17:20:52] <IchGuckLive> librecad heekscad
[17:20:57] <ReadError_> it goes laterally
[17:21:10] <IchGuckLive> also Disign space has free stuff
[17:21:12] <ReadError_> rather than creating a path
[17:21:31] <Jymmm> And alibere (sp) too
[17:21:46] <ReadError_> well, i have some svg files
[17:21:51] <ReadError_> that i want to convert to a toolpath
[17:22:04] <Jymmm> http://www.alibre.com/
[17:22:45] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: i got a tutorial for you
[17:23:02] <alex4nder> ReadError_: write your own converter
[17:23:18] <alex4nder> you just want to engrave, right?
[17:23:52] <ReadError_> IchGuckLive: oo nice
[17:24:00] <ReadError_> alex4nder: well for now, 2.5d
[17:24:05] <ReadError_> routing type work
[17:24:12] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI7uj-6KgyE
[17:24:39] <IchGuckLive> ReadError_: leave the gimp part and go to incscape
[17:24:41] <alex4nder> ReadError_: routing using an SVG?
[17:24:56] <ReadError_> alex4nder: i figured i could convert to monochrome
[17:25:00] <ReadError_> white/black
[17:25:05] <alex4nder> but where's your Z?
[17:25:11] <alex4nder> fixed?
[17:25:19] <ReadError_> and just create a path to route around the black
[17:25:26] <Jymmm> alex4nder: like engraving
[17:25:26] <ReadError_> well the depth is fixed
[17:25:31] <alex4nder> Jymmm: exactly. ;)
[17:25:33] <ReadError_> yea its engraving essentially
[17:25:39] <ReadError_> but at a greater depth ;)
[17:25:54] <IchGuckLive> with blender you can get the greycode to 3D
[17:25:59] <alex4nder> yah, that's easy
[17:26:08] <alex4nder> the problems come from when you have to have material removal strategies.
[17:26:17] <alex4nder> and need to consider spindle load
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[17:26:37] <IchGuckLive> alex4nder: zig zag
[17:26:59] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: serpentine?
[17:27:30] <IchGuckLive> thats what i mean
[17:28:03] <IchGuckLive> pycam or heekscnc can do this
[17:28:40] <alex4nder> well yah, whatever.. you could also just do 2.5D using voxels and a matrix
[17:28:59] <alex4nder> but my point is those are shitty tool pathes.
[17:29:01] <IchGuckLive> thats also in
[17:29:51] <alex4nder> it's why all the good CAM software is expensive
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[17:30:08] * alex4nder sells his body on the street for a VoluMill license.
[17:30:21] <archivist> or humans write the gcode
[17:30:33] <IchGuckLive> alex4nder: dreemill is you friend on this
[17:30:40] <alex4nder> archivist: amen
[17:30:42] <IchGuckLive> Freemill
[17:31:28] <archivist> alex4nder, I complained to the hypermill salesman about the price...he gave me a stress ball
[17:31:45] <alex4nder> haha
[17:31:56] <IchGuckLive> http://www.mecsoft-europe.de/freemill.html there are 50 postprocessors in the cam
[17:32:41] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: I haven't tried FreeMill yet
[17:33:05] <alex4nder> I've just been writing my own peel-milling/trochoidal/constant load algorithms
[17:33:07] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I think you might get more if instead of the streets, you hit the morgue or doctors college instead
[17:33:17] <IchGuckLive> its nice for zig zag parts
[17:33:28] <alex4nder> Jymmm: that has unfortunate sideeffects.
[17:33:48] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: I want to do HSM style removal techniques, using large amounts of the endmill's edge
[17:33:54] <Jymmm> alex4nder: you didn't need a spleen, did you?
[17:34:13] <IchGuckLive> alex4nder: http://foengarage.de/m8.jpg one part from freemill g-code
[17:34:17] <alex4nder> Jymmm: if I say I do, I'll look like a whiner
[17:34:29] <Jymmm> alex4nder++ lol
[17:34:44] <alex4nder> IchGuckLive: that is the type of milling I want to avoid
[17:34:54] <alex4nder> that looks like a simulation of a bad MRI
[17:35:28] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Ok, fine... just don't forget your fishnet stockings and tube top =)
[17:35:32] <alex4nder> archivist: maybe we can all save up our pennies, and buy a single license of hypermill, and access it via VNC. ;)
[17:35:55] <Jymmm> alex4nder: VM FTW
[17:36:02] <IchGuckLive> the part is part is very big 200inch
[17:36:09] <Jymmm> as ReadError_ already pointed out.
[17:37:39] <alex4nder> Jymmm: this is a licensing problem, not a technology problem. ;)
[17:38:11] <Jymmm> alex4nder: The VM is the save pennys and share thing
[17:38:32] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You share the VM once it's been installed into a VM
[17:39:01] <alex4nder> Jymmm: right, but if we're violating license agreements anyway, I'll just install it on my own windows machine. ;)
[17:39:40] <Jymmm> alex4nder: No, you wouldn't want to do that, as it would have network access.
[17:39:44] <ReadError_> but if you do a snapshot
[17:39:47] <ReadError_> and cut off network
[17:39:57] <ReadError_> restore the snapshot, re-install the trial
[17:39:58] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You disba;e network in the VM
[17:40:08] <ReadError_> so it has no reference to if it has been installed
[17:40:13] <Jymmm> so it can't "call home"
[17:40:25] <alex4nder> Jymmm: ... firewalls.
[17:40:37] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Yeah,uh huh
[17:40:41] <alex4nder> anyway, this is pointless..
[17:40:47] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You suck as a pirate btw =)
[17:41:00] <alex4nder> yes.
[17:41:05] <Jymmm> alex4nder: try beng a ninja instead =)
[17:41:12] <Jymmm> being
[17:41:52] <alex4nder> this ninja wants good CPU and OpenGL performance
[17:42:52] <alex4nder> ssi: see, we need good CAM software that's free
[17:49:46] <IchGuckLive> if you know a Student go and get the student version thats the best way to access good cam
[17:50:40] <IchGuckLive> solidworks with cam 160USD
[17:50:56] <alex4nder> that's pretty great
[17:50:59] <IchGuckLive> ProE with all moduels 110USD
[17:51:41] <IchGuckLive> go to the university and ask for it they mey got the old version for less
[17:52:37] <ReadError_> alex_joni
[17:52:39] <ReadError_> err
[17:52:42] <ReadError_> alex4nder: http://cheatingnetwork.net/forums/free-stuff/86404-free-edu-email-address.html
[17:52:44] <ReadError_> ;)
[17:52:57] <alex4nder> laf
[17:54:39] <ReadError_> http://www.blackhatteam.com/f51/your-own-edu-email-address-free-58882.html
[17:54:42] <ReadError_> that works too
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[17:57:23] <alex4nder> ReadError_: being a software guy, I don't tend to pirate much software. ;)
[17:57:28] <alex4nder> the 'code'
[17:57:33] <alex4nder> .. of conduct
[17:58:01] <ReadError> indeed
[17:58:02] <Jymmm> Yeah, it's the only legit code we'll ever see from a devleoper
[17:58:10] <ReadError> my background is software engineering
[17:58:37] <ReadError> well thats what i went to school for, but of course i do something totally different
[17:58:39] <ThadiusB> question, I'm using Solidworks and my design for all intents and purposes is measuring out in millimeters, load it up in Meshcam, save as EMC2 MM, pull it up in linuxcnc and it reads as inches, any ideas what i might be doing wrong here?
[17:59:44] <ReadError> did you change the units to MM in EMC2 ?
[18:00:22] <ReadError> i know when configuring it, it asked me which units it would use
[18:00:29] <cradek> can you elaborate on "reads as"? is it the correct scale or a scale 25.4x too big or small?
[18:01:00] <ThadiusB> its reading my 120 mm as 120 inches, I mean i wish i had 120 inches to work with lol, but sadly not
[18:01:05] <cradek> gcode can be in either inches or mm. you can configure (measure) your machine in inches or mm - the two are not related
[18:01:25] <cradek> then you're probably just missing a G21 code at the beginning
[18:03:23] <ThadiusB> i'm set up for inches not mm
[18:03:58] <ThadiusB> solves that
[18:03:59] <ThadiusB> lol
[18:04:11] <ReadError> how did you fix?
[18:04:25] <roycroft> hey folks - i'm new to the cnc world, and i hope you'll indulge my asking a few questions here
[18:04:30] <ThadiusB> havent yet, just going to resize my design, converting to inches
[18:04:38] <ThadiusB> hello Roy
[18:04:48] <roycroft> my imediate application will be milling pcbs, and i've decided to start with a zen toolworks router
[18:04:50] <ReadError> oh hai roycroft
[18:04:54] <ReadError> been homebrewin brah?
[18:04:55] * roycroft waves
[18:05:05] <roycroft> always :)
[18:05:15] <ReadError> zymurgy
[18:05:16] <roycroft> so the zen has some inherent issues
[18:05:25] <roycroft> like it's not flat
[18:05:37] <ReadError> well that sounds like a pretty big issue ;)
[18:05:39] <roycroft> folks say commonly as much as 0.010" out of flat
[18:05:42] <roycroft> well
[18:05:45] <alex4nder> nice
[18:05:46] <roycroft> i can fix that
[18:05:57] <ThadiusB> got a link Roy, to the zen?
[18:05:58] <roycroft> but then i have the other issue - pcbs also aren't flat
[18:06:04] <roycroft> zentoolworks.com
[18:06:17] <skunkworks> the zen is belt driven - isn't it? (used to have lead screws)
[18:06:17] <roycroft> there are various ways folks deal with that
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[18:06:24] <roycroft> no, it has lead screws
[18:06:27] <skunkworks> oh
[18:06:31] <alex4nder> roycroft: http://phk.freebsd.dk/CncPcb/ <- you seen that?
[18:06:31] <skunkworks> ok
[18:06:35] <roycroft> some use vacuum clamps to flatten the boards
[18:06:59] <skunkworks> some use double sided carpet tape
[18:07:00] <roycroft> that's what i'm getting at :)
[18:07:11] <ThadiusB> @Roy, kit?
[18:07:13] <roycroft> the zen folks like to use eagle and mach3
[18:07:24] <roycroft> i'm not going to get the complete kit
[18:07:40] <roycroft> mainly because i'm not terribly interested in mach3, and don't want to pay for a license i won't use
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[18:07:50] <roycroft> i would not be here if i intended to use mach3 :)
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[18:08:07] <roycroft> so there's some autoleveller code that those folks use
[18:08:17] <roycroft> but oddly (to me, at least), it's an eagle plugin
[18:08:40] <roycroft> it seems to me that autoleveller code would be part of the cnc controller, not part of the schematic editor/gcode generator
[18:08:42] <alex4nder> roycroft: did you look at that link?
[18:08:50] <roycroft> i just started to
[18:08:53] <mrsun> http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=161 hmm looks quite nice
[18:09:08] <mrsun> spindle 0 - 10V output and everything =)
[18:09:14] <roycroft> and i'm on the pcb-gcode list
[18:09:16] <alex4nder> roycroft: he does that with EMC, and he post/pre processes the g-code
[18:09:20] <ThadiusB> actually, couldnt i just run stepconfig wiz again and then configure for mm, load it up instead of the one using in inches?
[18:09:32] <roycroft> i'm trying to wrap my head around how all this stuff will integrate
[18:09:47] <roycroft> linuxcnc docs are pretty good, but start kind of in the middle, not the beginning
[18:10:03] <roycroft> so i thought i'd ask a few questions to be sure i'm on the right track
[18:10:05] <ThadiusB> roy, if i would of RTFM more, i wouldnt of had any problems with linuxcnc
[18:10:25] <roycroft> i'm not complaining about it - i think that it's very well-documented
[18:10:32] <ThadiusB> there's documentation out there for everything, provided google isnt being an ass, and the guys here are pretty rockin on the knowledge
[18:10:34] <alex4nder> ThadiusB: why don't you just slap G21 at the beginning of your g-code?
[18:10:52] <roycroft> i just think that asking a few questions of folks who use it already will help me with that big-picture view
[18:10:53] <skunkworks> ThadiusB: it would be easier to add G21 to the begining of the gcode.. http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g20_g21_units_a_id_sec_g20_g21_units_a
[18:11:37] <skunkworks> roycroft: shoot
[18:11:46] <ThadiusB> ya, but wouldnt i have to do that everytime i ran code? wouldnt it be more effecient to just make a mm and inch config ?
[18:11:49] <roycroft> i'm planning on using geda for schematic/layout editing and gcode generation
[18:12:14] <roycroft> so that height probe stuff should work for me, which is a big deal
[18:12:28] <roycroft> the other issue i'm struggling with is aligning the boards
[18:12:47] <roycroft> i'll be doing double-sided pcbs, and i want to pre-drill before routing them
[18:12:49] <cradek> ThadiusB: you should fix whatever's exporting gcode to put G20 or G21 as appropriate
[18:12:52] <roycroft> that way i can plate the vias
[18:13:09] <cradek> having two machine configs to avoid that simple solution is very silly
[18:13:34] <cradek> as I said before: gcode can be in either inches or mm. you can configure (measure) your machine in inches or mm - the two are not related
[18:13:37] <roycroft> i don't want to have to use sacrificial backing plates, so i want to drill half-way through the board, flip it over, drill the rest of the way, then route that side, flip it back over, and route the other side
[18:13:56] <roycroft> especially with the drilling, i'll need to keep alignment pretty tight
[18:14:04] <roycroft> like within 0.002" or so
[18:14:18] <roycroft> my thought is to mount a camera on the spindle plate
[18:14:33] <roycroft> drill two tiny holes in the board (0.5mm or so)
[18:14:49] <roycroft> then use those two holes to align the board every time i flip it over
[18:14:53] <roycroft> does that make sense?
[18:15:03] <alex4nder> why not just build a tooling plate with alignment guides?
[18:15:09] <JT-Shop> yep
[18:15:18] <roycroft> pcbs do not come in precisely-cut sizes
[18:15:31] <roycroft> i could certainly align accurately along one axis that way
[18:15:31] <alex4nder> if only you had a mill to fix that problem. ;)
[18:15:32] <cradek> nor with flat edges nor with right-angle corners
[18:15:39] <JT-Shop> but the pin holes will be precise
[18:15:52] <ThadiusB> thats just it though, i saved EMC2 mm, and its showing up as inches on in linuxcnc. Is that not because when i configured i used inches in the wizard?
[18:15:54] <Thetawaves> how flat are you guys talking? they use a cnc router to cut them out...
[18:15:56] <cradek> I think double-drilling like that is going to be a pain
[18:16:00] <roycroft> i thin it would be less work to do the pin holes than to mill two edges straight and square
[18:16:17] <alex4nder> I guess it depends what the end shape of the PCB is
[18:16:21] <alex4nder> etc.
[18:16:30] <cradek> ThadiusB: you have a gcode file that does not SPECIFY its units but ASSUMES the control defaults to mm
[18:16:33] <roycroft> especially since, in the end, it doesn't matter if the edges are straight and square
[18:16:40] <cradek> the fix is to SPECIFY the units using G20/G21
[18:16:49] <roycroft> so if i go this route
[18:16:56] <cradek> otherwise you have an indeterminate gcode program
[18:17:02] <roycroft> it seems silly to try to actually align the board precisely
[18:17:21] <roycroft> it makes more sense to center the holes under the crosshairs of my camera
[18:17:38] <ReadError> you got a camera on your mill?
[18:17:47] <roycroft> note the position (by pushing a button), and let linuxcnc figure out how to compensate
[18:17:51] <roycroft> i don't have the router yet
[18:17:58] <roycroft> i'm just about ready to buy it
[18:18:05] <roycroft> i want to figure out these issues first
[18:18:48] <ThadiusB> so i guess my options would be, 1. manually enter units in my gcode 2. Get CAM that specifies when it produces gcode file 3. Make additional stepconfig for linuxcnc in mm ?
[18:18:59] <roycroft> so does anyone know if there's code in linuxcnc currently, or whether it would be difficult to write some code, to do that?
[18:19:17] <alex4nder> roycroft: the first thing I would ask yourself, regardless of PCB alignment, is if something like the Zentoolworks mill has specs that are close enough to mill the PCBs you're interested in
[18:19:20] <jdhnc> roycroft: to rotate axis, or to use the cam to do so automatically
[18:19:22] <cradek> ThadiusB: cams have postprocessors that you are expected to adjust to what your control needs
[18:19:35] <roycroft> the former
[18:19:38] <roycroft> the cam is easy
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[18:19:44] <roycroft> i know there's camera code in linuxcnc already
[18:19:47] <roycroft> pycam, i believe
[18:20:01] <roycroft> alex4nder: quite a few folks use the zen router for doing this
[18:20:03] <cradek> it doesn't have to be part of linuxcnc
[18:20:05] <roycroft> and they claim it's precise enough
[18:20:08] <ThadiusB> the cam i'm using has PP for both inches and mm, i exported to mm from CAM and when i load into linuxcnc its reading it as inches.....crappy CAM?
[18:20:21] <roycroft> i'm dubious of using a router instead of a mill
[18:20:29] <alex4nder> roycroft: as long as it's precise enough for you
[18:20:30] <cradek> ThadiusB: you're not reading the responses are you?
[18:20:36] <roycroft> but with a fairly lightweight spindle, and the light cuts i'll be making, it's allegedly good enough
[18:20:38] <alex4nder> roycroft: the runout on the stock zen spindle sucks
[18:20:48] <roycroft> i do not intend on using their spindle
[18:20:51] <alex4nder> cool
[18:21:01] <jdhnc> if you clamp your PCB 5degrees off horizontal and ask the control to compensate, are your horizontal and vertical lines going to be as good as they would be if they were only moving on one axis?
[18:21:04] <roycroft> i'm looking for something with runout of 0.0005" or less
[18:21:06] <IchGuckLive> ThadiusB: Cradek answerd the question did you setup a inch mashine in klinuxccn
[18:21:14] <roycroft> since i'll be using 0.2mm tooling
[18:21:24] <ThadiusB> yes i setup inches in linuxcnc
[18:21:31] <IchGuckLive> ThadiusB: is there a G20 or G21 in the code
[18:21:44] <roycroft> that's a good question, jdhnc
[18:22:04] <IchGuckLive> ThadiusB: why if your came does mm
[18:22:16] <ThadiusB> I do both inches and mm
[18:22:30] <cradek> then use g20 or g21 in the gcode
[18:22:43] <IchGuckLive> so start with G17 G20 for inch and G17 G21 for mm in the first line
[18:23:23] <IchGuckLive> ThadiusB: and in the axis view you can select the vie in mm or inch
[18:23:57] <IchGuckLive> in the menue is a chanche hook
[18:24:05] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[18:24:15] <roycroft> btw, i plan on using this router for soem engraving work, and also for making chassis cutouts
[18:24:30] <roycroft> so if, in the end, it's not precise enough for the pcb work, it won't be a total waste
[18:24:48] <roycroft> plus, it's a cheap way for me to get my feet wet with cnc controllers
[18:25:13] <roycroft> i have a nice 17" elo touchscreen display coming next week for the linuxcnc machine btw :)
[18:25:27] <roycroft> touchy and i will become good friends
[18:26:36] <jdhnc> roy: first, do the auto alignment via camera then submit the patches.
[18:26:50] <ThadiusB> ok, just to make sure I understand, since i configured linuxcnc for inches, whenever i want to run millimeters, i need to edit my gcode to include G21 to change to mm, correct?
[18:27:06] <cradek> EVERY gcode program should have a G20 or G21 at the beginning
[18:27:31] <cradek> otherwise the gcode is broken and will run at different sizes depending on what units are currently active
[18:27:32] <jdhnc> you should use tell the CAM to use the units the machine is using.
[18:27:37] <cradek> no
[18:27:51] <cradek> you can use gcode in either units
[18:28:29] <JT-Shop> when I select touch off to fixture and touch off the Z axis to my spindle face what G code is that like?
[18:29:28] <cradek> G10 L21
[18:29:36] <JT-Shop> cradek: thanks
[18:29:39] <cradek> but weirdly I don't see it in the 2.5.0 docs - I swear it was there
[18:29:51] <JT-Shop> I don't see it either
[18:29:55] <cradek> no I'm wrong
[18:29:59] <cradek> it's L11
[18:30:03] <cradek> it's changing the tool table
[18:30:42] <JT-Shop> ok, thanks
[18:30:48] <cradek> which IS in the docs, yay
[18:30:54] <JT-Shop> YEA!
[18:32:38] <JT-Shop> so G10 L11 P#5400 Z0.0 would be a fixture touch off button for the current tool
[18:32:39] <roycroft> so on to the other thing that i'm not certain about - an appropriate controller
[18:33:07] * JT-Shop wanders back to the lathe to set up a Z touch off button
[18:33:19] <roycroft> when i run the jitter test on the machine i'll be using i get max jigger of about 15k ns servo thread and 19k ns base thread
[18:33:26] <ThadiusB> ok, I just compared the two CAM programs I'm using and one outputs code with G20 or G21, the other, well its just not there
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[18:33:35] <roycroft> the documentation refers to software control and hardware control
[18:33:45] <cradek> JT-Shop: I think P0 or P-1 or something special means "current" but I can't find that in the docs now
[18:33:46] <roycroft> and it appears that my setup is marginal for software control
[18:34:01] <cradek> JT-Shop: but other than that, you are right
[18:34:49] <roycroft> i'm looking at a tb6560 controller, and i believe that would be a hardware controller board
[18:35:02] <roycroft> but i've not found linuxcnc docs that discuss this more thoroughly
[18:35:44] <skunkworks> roycroft: the tb6560 is going to require you to use software generation
[18:35:55] <skunkworks> <20k jitter is decent
[18:36:00] <Jymmm> anyone need a 50A@1KV bridge for $2.30 USD ?
[18:36:07] <ReadError> roycroft
[18:36:10] <ReadError> i got the g540
[18:36:13] <ReadError> works really well so far
[18:36:17] <skunkworks> you need to know what sort of speed you need and calculate backwards.
[18:36:45] <roycroft> i don't need a lot of speed
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[18:36:53] <roycroft> this router is for prototyping
[18:37:03] <roycroft> if it takes 4 hours to mill a board i'll be fine
[18:37:20] <Jymmm> heh heh heh
[18:37:24] <roycroft> that's a lot faster than a several day/couple week turn around time from the pcb fab outfits
[18:38:19] <roycroft> g540 costs a lot more, but if does a much better job i could go with it
[18:38:31] <roycroft> i'm trying to keep cost down, but also not be frustrated in the end
[18:38:49] <roycroft> sometimes adding money removes frustration, and that's a good formula
[18:39:02] <skunkworks> well - if you can set your base period to 40000 (conservative with that jitter) - you will get a minimum 12500steps per second..
[18:39:30] <jdhnc> get a TB6560 board, everyone should have one in their junk box
[18:39:35] <skunkworks> heh
[18:39:51] <roycroft> this will not be my only cnc machine
[18:39:56] <roycroft> just the first one
[18:40:22] <roycroft> i can see myself cnc'ing my vertical mill, my lathe, and my plasma cutter over time
[18:40:23] <jdhnc> I'd give you mine, but I always think I might have a use for it some day.
[18:40:34] <JT-Shop> cradek: I seem to remember that P0 meant current tool or something like that
[18:40:44] <roycroft> having a spare controller board laying around really isn't a bad idea
[18:41:13] <roycroft> so i suppose i could start with that, and if it runs too slow for me, get a gecko and save the tb6560 as a spare
[18:41:17] <jdhnc> a spare controller woudl be nice... a spare tb6560 woudl be the next best thing.
[18:41:39] <JT-Shop> cradek: I see it in G10 L2 "For the currently active coordinate system program P0"
[18:41:55] <cradek> oh maybe it doesn't work for tool
[18:42:05] <roycroft> what would really be fun would be to cnc my tig welder
[18:42:11] <cradek> someone's gonna have to resort to looking at the source.
[18:42:23] <roycroft> but that would be a very major undertaking - certainly well beyond my current capability
[18:42:25] <JT-Shop> I'm lost in there
[18:42:41] <jdhnc> you need a really good arc starter for automated tig
[18:42:51] <roycroft> as i'd have to build a couple robots first to handle the torch and the filler rod
[18:43:07] <roycroft> that's something that will probably never happen
[18:43:24] <roycroft> but it *would* be fun
[18:43:30] <cradek> JT-Shop: looks like you have to specify tool number
[18:43:36] <ReadError> <roycroft> what would really be fun would be to cnc my tig welder
[18:43:39] <ReadError> wow
[18:43:45] <ReadError> thats gotta be a task
[18:43:56] <roycroft> yes, it would be
[18:44:38] <FinboySlick> If you mostly just do flat welding that might not be too bad.
[18:45:10] <FinboySlick> Maybe a fourth axis on a router table, sort of like the fabric cutters.
[18:45:22] <jdhnc> I do automated tube TIG welding 24x7
[18:45:28] <FinboySlick> by router table I mean gantry setup.
[18:45:53] <archivist> roycroft, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2oaBtkpNpE
[18:46:18] <roycroft> i'll note that url - youtube isn't working on this computer at the moment
[18:46:22] <FinboySlick> jdhnc: As in joining tubes end to end? Or spaceframe construction?
[18:46:27] <roycroft> some plugin breakage that i haven't bothered to figure out
[18:46:56] <archivist> roycroft, its a 5 axis welding with linuxcnc
[18:47:01] <roycroft> cool
[18:47:06] <jdhnc> Fin: plugs in tubes
[18:47:14] <roycroft> i'll definitely check it out later on
[18:47:47] <roycroft> it sounds like you folks think what i'm trying to do currently is feasible, but not trivial
[18:48:11] <roycroft> that's encouraging
[18:49:24] <archivist> just about anything is possible within reason
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[18:49:56] <roycroft> well i appreciate your input
[18:50:09] <FinboySlick> archivist: With enough work, even the unreasonable is feasible ;)
[18:50:13] <roycroft> i'll start procuring hardware and may have more questions down the road
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[18:50:33] <roycroft> and in the meantime i'll lurk if that's ok
[18:50:39] <roycroft> there seems to be quite a number of idlers here
[18:50:49] <archivist> lurking is best way
[18:51:07] <roycroft> yes, it can be quite useful
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[19:08:47] <roycroft> jitter has jumped up to 290k for some reason
[19:08:53] <roycroft> that's not good
[19:09:10] <ReadError> is this inside a VM?
[19:09:13] <roycroft> no
[19:09:25] <roycroft> that would be a useless test :)
[19:10:24] <roycroft> i have a pile of semi-old 1u rackmount servers - i want to use one of those for linuxcnc
[19:10:44] <ReadError> turn off write-cache on the HD
[19:10:50] <roycroft> dual 3.0GHz xeons, 4GB ram
[19:10:54] <roycroft> i thought they would be capable
[19:10:59] <roycroft> ok
[19:11:19] <roycroft> you think i'm doing a big cache flush occasionally?
[19:11:33] <cpresser_> roycroft: perhaps thats the SMI interrupt which causes the jitter
[19:12:16] <roycroft> there's no parallel port on these machines, but there's a riser card, so i can get a card for that
[19:12:51] * roycroft will futz with it after lunch
[19:17:02] <archivist> roycroft, integrated graphics stealing shared memory time can be a pain
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[19:36:25] <JT-Shop> cradek thanks for looking
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[19:48:32] <JT-Shop> is there a way to call a subroutine file from MDI?
[19:51:57] <andypugh> I think so
[19:52:00] <mhaberler> o<subname> call
[19:52:34] <mhaberler> subname.ngc must be in path for ngc files
[19:54:30] <ReadError> oh this is cool
[19:54:44] <jdhnc> if you are doing O123 call, does the O123 sub/end sub have to precede the call?
[19:54:48] <ReadError> i can add other cpu's as distributed nodes for pycam
[19:55:09] <mhaberler> with o123 yes
[19:55:22] <mhaberler> with o<123> no (I think..)
[19:55:33] <mhaberler> in that case 123.ngc is assumed to exist
[19:56:12] <jdhnc> oh, I meant O<123>
[19:56:21] <mhaberler> jdhnc: 'if you are doing O123 call' - do you mean MDI or in auto?
[19:56:49] <jdhnc> in gcode, just wondered if the sub had to be in the file before the call.
[19:57:14] <mhaberler> o123 call should work as well
[19:57:45] <mhaberler> if you do MDI, that is a single line, so you cant 'define a sub before the call'
[19:57:50] <mhaberler> it has to be in a file
[19:59:51] <JT-Shop> I'm getting file not open
[20:00:30] <JT-Shop> 2.5
[20:02:00] -!- GeorgeH_ has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[20:02:25] <JT-Shop> the mdi doesn't like a dash in the file name
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[20:03:43] <mhaberler> the dash is a minus, so it might be interpreted as expression
[20:04:02] <mhaberler> with 'o<a-b> call' it should work
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[20:05:07] <mhaberler> that should look for 'a-b.ngc'
[20:07:09] <mhaberler> 'osomething call' will interpreter 'somthing' as expression, so if you have #20 = 100 and
[20:07:39] <mhaberler> 'o#20 call' it will be interpreted as 'o100 call'
[20:08:20] <jthornton> I was using o<z-offset> call
[20:08:31] <jthornton> and I got the error file not open
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[20:08:42] <mhaberler> in MDI?
[20:09:06] <jthornton> when I changed it to o<zoffset> call it worked, yes in MDI and a MDI_COMMAND
[20:09:32] <mhaberler> is it 'file not open' or 'file not found'?
[20:09:43] <jthornton> file not open
[20:10:42] <mhaberler> hm, that hints to a fishy behaviour ; can you restart axis and retry? I have seen that before, I tried to fix and havent seen it since but not sure it really nailed it
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[20:11:05] <jthornton> yea, give me a minute or three to get back out to the shop
[20:13:19] <mhaberler> it might have to do with execution history; there's an obscure LAZY_CLOSE feature which relates to the behaviour
[20:15:51] <ReadError> hey yall
[20:15:59] <ReadError> is there a way to "center" my code?
[20:16:08] <ReadError> when i import is going outside of the bounds of my red box
[20:16:47] <jdhnc> what are you importing, and in to what?
[20:18:16] <ReadError> pycam -> linuxcnc 2.5
[20:19:29] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/AlW9I.png
[20:19:32] <ReadError> thats what its doing
[20:20:15] <sumpfralle> maybe you should center it in pycam before generating the GCode?
[20:21:26] <sumpfralle> just use "shift to origin" - is that what you want to do?
[20:21:35] <jdhnc> that max 1200 in/min is pretty impressive.
[20:21:45] <ReadError> jdhnc: thats in a virtual
[20:21:51] <ReadError> ill export it to my machine in basement later
[20:21:55] <sumpfralle> @ReadError btw: your machine is not homed, yet - or?
[20:22:03] <sumpfralle> ok
[20:22:15] <ReadError> yea sumpfralle
[20:22:26] <ReadError> i want to shift the code into the bounds of my machine
[20:22:50] <sumpfralle> you can easily do this with "touch off" (German: "antasten")
[20:23:08] <sumpfralle> just put in any value - it is not related to the physical dimensions of your machine
[20:25:26] <jdhnc> use the values at the left/bottom for touch off
[20:26:33] <jdhnc> then consider some private time for reflection, or perhaps professional counseling to explore your drawing.
[20:26:33] <ReadError> oh and that will shift the bounds of the box?
[20:27:17] <sumpfralle> no - but it changes the mapping between the physical dimensions of your machine and the virtual coordinate system
[20:27:36] <sumpfralle> the upper limit of the y axis will no be printed in ugly red anymore
[20:28:29] <ReadError> jdhnc: im just playing around, im not _that_ crazy :)
[20:28:36] <ReadError> rage faces where easy to find in svg
[20:32:24] <alex4nder> not to mention they're awesome
[20:32:56] <ReadError> oh indeed
[20:33:07] <ReadError> im going to cut that and keep it on my desk
[20:33:14] <ReadError> so when im feelin frustrated
[20:33:16] <ReadError> i can look at it
[20:33:35] <ReadError> i speak with alot of derps at work
[20:35:38] <jdhnc> so do they.
[20:40:07] <ReadError> hmm wouldnt touchoff x,y @ 0,0 put the bottom left corner of the image down in within the bounds ?
[20:40:14] <ReadError> or do I need to use something besides G54
[20:43:13] <sumpfralle> if you would touch off there as 0,0 - then you would see the image magically shift up and to the right - just try it :)
[20:43:54] <sumpfralle> the coordinates in the GCode file are fixed - the "touch off" just tells linuxcnc how this maps to the physical locations within the machine
[20:44:23] <sumpfralle> in pycam you should just always use the "move to origin" button - then you won't get confused
[20:44:46] <andypugh> ReadError: Just use the "touch off" button
[20:45:23] <ReadError> ahhh yes after looking at the gcode, i see that it is hard coded in
[20:45:56] <andypugh> It almost always is
[20:46:23] <andypugh> The point is that X0 Y0 Z0 can be set to be anywhere, even places outside the envelope of your machine
[20:47:23] <sumpfralle> @ReadError: if you would sit in front of a real machine then you would now move the head of the mill to the left-bottom position of your stock material. Here would would touch-off for "x=8, y=7.5" - because this is the bottom-left coordinate of your GCode toolpath
[20:47:52] <andypugh> I feel slightly soiled, I just installed Microsoft Office on my brand-new mac
[20:48:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: LOL SUCKER!
[20:48:17] <andypugh> It cost me £8
[20:48:25] <cradek> yeah I hate when I have to resort to buying new overpriced hardware
[20:48:45] <Jymmm> andypugh: I don't care if they paid you to install it =)
[20:49:00] <Jymmm> andypugh: OO works finr
[20:49:03] <Jymmm> fine
[20:49:07] <andypugh> I have OO too
[20:49:38] <Jymmm> heh
[20:49:51] <Jymmm> so you added 1.2GB worht of poo too?
[20:51:00] <gene77> hey guys
[20:51:10] <Jymmm> Hi Gene!
[20:51:23] <gene77> Hi all
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[20:52:18] <andypugh> Well, I have an occasionally-profitable sideline writing Excel macros.
[20:52:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ah, ok.
[20:53:03] <gene77> Got an accell problem think, on this lathe, z is freezing the motor at the point where the backlash comp is done and it transistions to steady velocity in the 25" range
[20:53:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: So, how many virus have you written?
[20:53:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: 2-3 hundred?
[20:54:27] <andypugh> None.
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[20:54:41] <Jymmm> andypugh: why not?
[20:54:48] <andypugh> Because I lack imagination
[20:55:05] <gene77> If I jog that takes up the backlash, it freezes at the end of the backlash move, or shortly after, If I stop, then continue in the same dir, its all cool
[20:55:08] <Jymmm> andypugh: Eh, just make it turn everything upsidedown.
[20:55:21] <andypugh> google "askew" :-)
[20:56:22] <Jymmm> andypugh: I just get restraunts in the area
[20:56:33] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: I shut down Axis and started it back up and issued o<z-touchoff> call and got "File not open" error
[20:57:09] <mhaberler> I'll be back in a few mins; are you sure the OPEN_FILE was found and readß
[20:57:10] <mhaberler> ?
[20:57:18] <andypugh> I am not sure you are allowed - signs, as has been said. Can you call the sub from G-code OK?
[20:57:58] <JT-Shop> I can call another file ztouchoff.ngc from MDI fine, I've not tried to call z-touchoff.ngc from G code yet
[20:58:33] <JT-Shop> the manual says you can have lower case letters numbers the dash and the underscore as part of the name
[20:58:46] <JT-Shop> let me try the underscore for shits and grins
[21:00:14] <JT-Shop> o<z_touchoff> call gives me the same error "File not open"
[21:02:46] <Jymmm> WTH is a BLDC motor?
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[21:03:54] <djdelorie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brushless_dc_motor
[21:03:58] <gene77> Just found a showstopper in todays 2.6!! I asked it for machine status, it opened the window and restarted X!
[21:04:09] <Jymmm> djdelorie: ah
[21:05:40] <ReadError> G1 Z0E-12
[21:05:47] <ReadError> its having a problem with that
[21:05:51] <ReadError> exponent ?
[21:06:30] <alex4nder> that's quite a 0
[21:06:38] <ReadError> oh indeed
[21:06:44] <ReadError> which since its 0....
[21:06:51] <ReadError> not sure why its doing it like that
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[21:09:30] <andypugh> ReadError: E is a G-code command, G-code can't handle exponent notation
[21:09:57] <JT-Shop> mhaberler: I don't know how to know if OPEN_FILE was found and read. I do know if I misspell it I get "File not found". Running o<z-touchoff> call in a G code file works fine so it is limited to MDI
[21:10:07] <ReadError> i shifted my z in pycam up
[21:10:12] <ReadError> and that seemed to solve it
[21:10:18] <mhaberler> the inital ngc file is visible
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[21:14:38] <JT-Shop> when I issue <z-touchoff> call from the MDI box?
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[21:20:29] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[22:24:45] <andypugh> I am loving this 26" monitor. :-)
[22:25:33] <andypugh> (2560x1440)
[22:25:53] <r00t4rd3d> why so small?
[22:26:18] <andypugh> I am poor?
[22:26:28] <andypugh> (I wasn't poor until I bought it, mind)
[22:26:34] <isssy> I love my 46" TV
[22:26:53] <isssy> because is cheap andyengel
[22:26:55] <andypugh> That's presumably 1080 pixels high though?
[22:27:36] <isssy> after 2 beer , the resolution is not important , just the size
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[22:31:42] <roycroft> so where do you folks get things like panic buttons and big indicator lights?
[22:31:55] <andypugh> eBay
[22:32:10] <andypugh> look for "Arcade buttons"
[22:32:16] * roycroft uses the usual outfits like digi-key, mouser, allied, etc. but is always looking for new suppliers
[22:32:31] <roycroft> sparkfun has some really great joysticks that i may get for jogging
[22:33:01] <roycroft> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9182
[22:33:26] <andypugh> roycroft: http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-lit-Arcade-Push-Buttons-MAME-Multicade-/120832434848
[22:33:51] <roycroft> arcade buttons wouldn't be good for e-stop
[22:33:58] <roycroft> but for everything else they'd be great
[22:34:09] <andypugh> Indeed. I have them on my machine.
[22:34:16] <roycroft> i know where i can get e-stop buttons
[22:34:24] <roycroft> but like i said, i'm always looking for new suppliers
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[22:34:41] <roycroft> i do like those buttons you just posted
[22:34:48] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N7Z88ai8cR7012cckm4ihdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:35:00] <andypugh> I am not convinced by my graphics, but the buttons are good.
[22:35:00] <roycroft> they would be good for not only my cnc panel, but for the automated brewing system i'm developing
[22:36:06] <roycroft> nice
[22:36:11] <roycroft> what kind of touchscreen?
[22:36:15] <roycroft> i'm getting a 17" elo
[22:36:19] <roycroft> one of their newer ones
[22:37:40] <andypugh> I think that is 17" open-frame from eBay.
[22:38:18] <roycroft> yeah, the one i'm getting is open frame
[22:38:21] <roycroft> out of a kiosk
[22:39:30] <roycroft> that same outfit on ebay that has the buttons has nice joysticks for almost half the price of sparkfun
[22:39:31] <andypugh> Mine is an Eeti I think.
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[22:42:07] <roycroft> i designed some kiosks in the early '90s (running mosaic in full-screen mode was fun)
[22:42:12] <roycroft> and i used elo crts for that
[22:42:22] <roycroft> i still have one of them, and was playing with touchy on it
[22:42:48] <roycroft> i know that x11 has had good support for elo touchscreens since back then, so i went with what i know
[22:54:28] <andypugh> Yeah, the eGalaxytouch driver is a bit tricksy. It needs an xconfig hack to swap X and Y for a start
[23:01:25] <ReadError> hey djdelorie
[23:01:31] <ReadError> hey all
[23:01:42] <ReadError> i think i passed the backlash test
[23:01:47] <JT-Shop> hay
[23:01:57] <ReadError> i put my dial indicator on the x, set it 0
[23:02:08] <ReadError> ran the table out 6" then back like 20 times
[23:02:21] <ReadError> and when i stopped it, ended up right on 0.000 again!
[23:02:53] -!- djdelorie has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[23:03:34] <andypugh> good sign
[23:03:42] <ReadError> yessir
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[23:09:20] <JT-Shop> ReadError: if you move the table toward the indicator until it reads 0.0000" then start moving it away from the indicator in increments of 0.0001" until the dial moves and that is your backlash
[23:09:55] <JT-Shop> moving out 6" and back only proves your not losing steps which is a good thing too
[23:10:33] <ReadError> ahhh so rather than continuous, change it to 0.0001
[23:10:39] <ReadError> i need to get this PS3 controller setup
[23:10:40] <JT-Shop> yes
[23:16:01] <ReadError> this bit I have is so sharp
[23:16:13] <ReadError> i barely set it on my finger and twist, and it gets into the skin
[23:16:18] <ReadError> with no pressure
[23:16:52] <Jymmm> lick it
[23:18:37] <andypugh> ReadError: The cheap Chinese cutters are much safer :-)
[23:18:55] <ReadError> well this was one was only like 11$
[23:24:53] <r00t4rd3d> do they make stand offs with wood thread?
[23:25:41] <andypugh> there is no "wood thread" so no.
[23:27:31] <r00t4rd3d> you know what i mean
[23:28:31] <r00t4rd3d> if I wanted to mount a pcb to wood, whats the best option?
[23:28:34] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[23:28:45] <ReadError> nylon
[23:28:46] <JT-Shop> T nuts
[23:28:49] <ReadError> from lowes
[23:28:55] <ReadError> oh to cut?
[23:29:00] <JT-Shop> T nuts
[23:29:02] <ReadError> or mount your controller board
[23:29:08] <skunkworks__> double sided carpet tape
[23:29:13] <JT-Shop> T nuts
[23:29:19] <skunkworks__> ;)
[23:29:23] <JT-Shop> LOL
[23:29:35] <r00t4rd3d> i got some velcro
[23:29:46] <r00t4rd3d> and super glue
[23:29:56] <JT-Shop> what is the function of the mounting?
[23:30:07] <r00t4rd3d> tb6560
[23:30:49] <skunkworks__> vacuum works well
[23:31:09] <r00t4rd3d> i want to mount all my control stuff and power under my table
[23:31:09] <JT-Shop> make it easy to remove like rubber bands for the tb6560
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[23:35:59] <Jymmm> vac table
[23:36:20] <JT-Shop> dam VMC drives are not playing nice
[23:36:28] <Jymmm> vac table
[23:36:40] <JT-Shop> Z rapid is down to 75IPM and it still trips the dam drive out
[23:36:43] <Jymmm> vac table
[23:36:59] <JT-Shop> what do you mean Jymmm
[23:37:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: trips the circuut breaker?
[23:37:23] <JT-Shop> no
[23:37:24] <Jymmm> or stalls
[23:37:30] <JT-Shop> no
[23:37:37] <JT-Shop> drive errors out
[23:37:42] <Jymmm> servo?
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[23:38:11] <JT-Shop> yea big seimens servos on everything
[23:38:33] <JT-Shop> you can hear the Z axis pulsing just before it quits
[23:38:41] <Jymmm> is Z counter balanced?
[23:38:46] <JT-Shop> no
[23:38:59] <JT-Shop> it's a BP Discovery 308 VMC
[23:39:06] <Jymmm> does it occure on down motion, up motion, or both?
[23:39:12] <JT-Shop> both
[23:39:18] <Jymmm> consistantly?
[23:39:25] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:39:41] <JT-Shop> I can drill one hole and it errors out
[23:39:46] <JT-Shop> sucks
[23:39:49] <Jymmm> have you swapped drives around and see if it still happens?
[23:39:56] <JT-Shop> not possible
[23:40:02] <Jymmm> x to z as examle
[23:40:08] <JT-Shop> not possible
[23:40:16] <Jymmm> hardwired in?
[23:40:27] <JT-Shop> big box
[23:40:35] <Jymmm> ah
[23:40:57] <skunkworks__> JT-Shop: still using the origninal control?
[23:41:04] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:41:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Well, maybe you should take the time to swap drives
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[23:41:31] <JT-Shop> http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f163/johnplctech/Bridgeport%20308%20VMC/BP308-21.jpg
[23:41:48] <JT-Shop> I'll have to check to see if they are the same if possible
[23:41:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I count 5 wires man
[23:42:17] <JT-Shop> you can't see well enough
[23:42:29] <Jymmm> at the bottom
[23:42:49] <JT-Shop> yea that is power to the servo
[23:43:16] <Jymmm> do those term strips unplug?
[23:43:21] <JT-Shop> they do look the same
[23:43:38] <Jymmm> the grey ones at the top half
[23:44:08] <JT-Shop> yea they plug in
[23:44:09] <Jymmm> just above the 7 seg LED
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[23:44:28] <Jymmm> Ok, so how hard would it be to unplug and swap em?
[23:44:49] <JT-Shop> I'll have to see if the part numbers are the same... the Z may be a more powerful drive
[23:45:00] <Jymmm> k
[23:45:32] <Jymmm> or see if the problem occures when it's on X
[23:45:39] <Jymmm> or Y
[23:45:45] <JT-Shop> takes a couple of hours to take the power supply off the left side so it is a pain in the ass as the mounting screws are hidden
[23:46:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: why remove it?
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[23:46:39] <JT-Shop> I took it off once to replace the caps so I know what is involved for the other segements
[23:47:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: and you have to remoe the PS to swap drive cables?
[23:47:11] <JT-Shop> no
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[23:47:52] <JT-Shop> but I know how much fun it is to take one of the segments off
[23:48:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Even if Z is stronger, if you move it to X and the problem follows, you've isolated the cause.
[23:48:30] <JT-Shop> you have a point
[23:49:00] <JT-Shop> oh well tomorrow is shot now... can't play
[23:49:06] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If X works on the Z axis, you've eliminated the motor/encoder
[23:49:26] <JT-Shop> yea, I know
[23:50:02] <JT-Shop> I think I'll go check the buss bars to see if any is loose
[23:50:15] <JT-Shop> before I lose my mind
[23:50:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: slow it down, does it still die?
[23:50:43] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: that would eliminate loose cab;ing
[23:50:51] <JT-Shop> normal is 400IPM it is down to 75IPM
[23:51:01] <JT-Shop> maybe 450IPM
[23:51:03] <Jymmm> ok, go down to 25IPM
[23:51:34] <JT-Shop> too slow
[23:51:36] <Jymmm> then grab a wooden stick and start pocking at cabling =)
[23:52:00] <JT-Shop> how about a metal mop handle?
[23:52:12] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: only if you have grounded shoes on
[23:52:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: you have a clamp on amp meter?
[23:52:49] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1IoLMqpRY4
[23:52:54] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:53:14] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: measure each leg of each axis for differences
[23:53:33] <JT-Shop> won't run long enough to do that
[23:53:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: doesnt matter
[23:54:08] <JT-Shop> right
[23:54:42] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: All you are looking for is differences to isolate where the issue is
[23:55:00] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: it won't run long enough for me to take a measurement
[23:55:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: then slow it down more and see if it'll run a bit longer.
[23:55:23] <JT-Shop> na
[23:55:27] <JT-Shop> waste of time
[23:55:30] <Jymmm> all you need is 5 seconds
[23:55:37] <JT-Shop> it's way too slow now
[23:55:59] <Jymmm> your not trying to fix it, you're trying to fid the casue
[23:56:04] <Jymmm> find
[23:56:08] <JT-Shop> measuring the amps won't tell me what is borked
[23:56:26] <Jymmm> your not measing amperage, your looking for differences
[23:56:39] <Jymmm> clampon amp meter is just simple method
[23:57:00] <JT-Shop> difference in what?
[23:57:12] <Jymmm> between the work and non-working axis
[23:57:57] <JT-Shop> no comparison due to difference in loads to the axis
[23:58:21] <Jymmm> it coould be at the drives, motors, encoders, PS, all you need to find is something different than the rest to start narrowig down
[23:58:52] <Jymmm> If a drive is drawing less power idle than the rest, etc