#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-04-30

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[00:22:05] <andypugh> night all
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[01:02:38] <alex4nder> ok
[01:02:49] <alex4nder> 6 hours in, and my max jitter is ~4.5uS and ~5uS
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[01:41:14] <ReadError> pretty gusta
[01:42:11] <Jymmm> is that 5000nS ?
[01:42:24] <Jymmm> or 50,000nS
[01:44:15] <ReadError> 5k i think
[01:44:32] <Jymmm> yeah
[01:44:53] <Jymmm> alex4nder: using what mobo/cpu?
[01:45:12] <alex4nder> Jymmm: that Atom board I mentioned the other dat
[01:45:13] <alex4nder> er day
[01:45:15] <ReadError> im cutting Y U NO guy right now
[01:45:22] <alex4nder> the DN2800MT
[01:45:23] <ReadError> his teeth are very detailed
[01:45:25] <alex4nder> hah
[01:45:25] <Jymmm> alex4nder: the thin one?
[01:45:29] <alex4nder> yup
[01:45:36] <Jymmm> alex4nder: paraport?
[01:45:39] <alex4nder> yes
[01:45:49] <Jymmm> alex4nder: mesa card too?
[01:46:02] <alex4nder> I'm powering it off of a 12 volt supply.. I added an mSATA SSD and Mini PCIe wireless
[01:46:17] <alex4nder> Jymmm: no, this is for a simple stepper rig; no mesa card
[01:46:21] <alex4nder> it's hooked up to a G540
[01:46:26] <Jymmm> k
[01:46:45] <Jymmm> alex4nder: did you ever try running hidef video on it?
[01:46:52] <alex4nder> like, video playback?
[01:47:03] <Jymmm> yeah dvd BL etc
[01:47:17] <alex4nder> no
[01:47:47] <alex4nder> I've got 5 glxgears sessions running, a bunch of xterms spewing data, some gedits, and a continuous kernel build in the background
[01:47:49] <Jymmm> alex4nder: If you can connect a DVD drive and use a REAL DVD (not ripped or anything) I'd be interested inthe results.
[01:48:09] <alex4nder> haha, would you like fries with that?
[01:48:18] <Jymmm> alex4nder: No
[01:48:26] <alex4nder> I don't have a DVD drive unfortunately.
[01:48:29] <Jymmm> alex4nder: it can be a usb dvd drive
[01:48:43] <alex4nder> what information are you trying to get?
[01:48:52] <Jymmm> playback jitter
[01:49:26] <Jymmm> with AC5.1 full uncompressed DVD playback
[01:49:27] <alex4nder> well if it's going to happen, I doubt it'll be the fact you're using a DVD drive.. I'm using a VESA X driver, because the integrated video has no 'native' open-source drivers
[01:50:01] <Jymmm> VESA is fine, it's not the video I'm after, it's the mpeg decoding
[01:50:12] <alex4nder> well why don't I just decode an MPEG on it?
[01:50:19] <Jymmm> the jitter is just the results of the mpeg chicking =)
[01:50:27] <Jymmm> choking
[01:50:30] <alex4nder> I have VOB rips
[01:50:45] <Jymmm> Rips are not the same, those are easy to palyback
[01:50:54] <alex4nder> why would they be any easier?
[01:50:55] <Jymmm> did you remaster the rips?
[01:50:57] <alex4nder> no
[01:51:02] <alex4nder> they're the bytes off of the DVD
[01:51:22] * alex4nder installs VLC
[01:51:42] <Jymmm> perfect
[01:52:22] <Jymmm> alex4nder: did you remove the "overhead" by chance?
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[01:59:41] <alex4nder> Jymmm: haha, are you trolling me now>
[01:59:42] <alex4nder> ??
[02:05:24] <Jymmm> ?
[02:05:28] <Jymmm> oh, what did it come with accessory/cables wise?
[02:05:47] <Jymmm> I saw a atx plate
[02:06:25] <Jymmm> alex4nder: and power cables?
[02:06:27] <Jymmm> any
[02:07:56] <Jymmm> alex4nder: oh crap... RealTek NIC, WTF?!
[02:09:58] <alex4nder> what?
[02:10:45] <alex4nder> [ 1.803944] e1000e: Intel(R) PRO/1000 Network Driver - 1.0.2-k2
[02:10:49] <alex4nder> doesn't look like a realtek to me
[02:11:26] <djdelorie> stick with the e1000 - that's what I've got
[02:13:39] <alex4nder> Jymmm: it comes with two ATX plates, a couple SATA cables, and a power cable that plugs into the SATA-power-like connector on the motherboard
[02:14:24] <alex4nder> the power connectors are rated for over 8 amps.. I think their example power usage came in at < 100 watts.
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[02:22:31] <jdhNC> alex4: what case are you using?
[02:22:43] <alex4nder> jdhNC: not sure yet
[02:22:49] <alex4nder> I got the board on Friday.
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[02:45:25] <pfred1> who is the degenerate responsibile for the Linux FAQ?
[02:47:47] <jdhNC> you could blame Jymmm if you want
[02:48:05] <pfred1> heck I didn't even know page up and page down paged in less
[02:48:12] <pfred1> I always used the spacebar and b
[02:48:45] <pfred1> like normal people!
[02:49:08] <jdhNC> I knew it, but still use space/b
[02:49:53] <Tom_itx> what sort of bleed off do ppl use on the main psu for the caps on powerdown?
[02:49:58] <pfred1> well man pages use less as the pager and in the faq it says use page up page down
[02:50:03] <alex4nder> jdhNC: I might pick up one of these http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Mini-ITX-enclosure-PicoPSU-compatible/dp/B003DXI288/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1335754128&sr=1-1
[02:50:22] <jdhNC> alex4: that requires an external PS?
[02:50:43] <alex4nder> jdhNC: the board takes 9-18v DC in
[02:50:46] <alex4nder> directly
[02:50:49] <pfred1> Tom_itx I like an LED
[02:51:02] <Tom_itx> led would take a long time
[02:51:09] <pfred1> Tom_itx wit hthe appropriate current limiting resistor of course
[02:51:17] <pfred1> not really
[02:51:20] <jdhNC> oh, it doesn't need one of those funky atx ps adapter thingies?
[02:51:28] <Tom_itx> 20000 uf
[02:51:35] <jdhNC> excuse the technical terms
[02:51:43] <Tom_itx> on a 50v supply
[02:51:53] <pfred1> well if yo uneed it bled faster yo ucan jump it but you'd be surprised
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[02:52:48] <pfred1> actually with the light you should never be surprised
[02:53:12] <jdhNC> es file explorer
[02:53:16] <jdhNC> <urk>
[02:53:18] <Tom_itx> is it a good idea or does it matter if the logic supply comes up before the main load supply?
[02:53:46] <Tom_itx> the drivers aren't gonna move until they get a signal anyway
[02:53:47] <pfred1> Tom_itx if time is really a factor get a real power pig if an LED
[02:54:06] <Tom_itx> pfred1 i considered a 500 ohm r
[02:54:37] <pfred1> Tom_itx it is just how i build PSUs I wire the indicator lamp to the filter caps
[02:55:10] <Tom_itx> i suppose i could test that
[02:55:34] <pfred1> 50K cap will take some time but you can get some really piggy LEDs today
[02:55:55] <pfred1> I use the old red ones they suck some juice
[02:56:03] <Tom_itx> i got some of those
[02:56:25] <pfred1> plus i like watching it fade
[02:57:04] <alex4nder> jdhNC: no, you just plug in DC
[02:58:28] <jdhNC> nifty.
[03:01:21] <pfred1> Tom_itx try an LED with a 4.5K resistor it should live
[03:02:48] <Tom_itx> i'll have 3, i just added them to my psu caps board
[03:03:00] <pfred1> should be less than 10ma at 50V
[03:03:10] <djdelorie> get a 7 watt "night light" bulb
[03:03:22] <djdelorie> it will drain anything up to 160 VDC
[03:03:32] <pfred1> hmm lets figure out the current
[03:03:40] <Tom_itx> pfred1 i could drive it a little harder
[03:03:51] <Tom_itx> i have no idea what the leds are
[03:04:00] <djdelorie> for 50v and 20 mA, you need a 1 watt resistor...
[03:04:03] <Tom_itx> i just stuck an led and r footprint on the board
[03:04:31] <pfred1> really 7W @ 50V is only 0.14 of an amp
[03:04:55] <djdelorie> a night light bulb is just a 7 watt resistor, which is all you need
[03:05:23] <Tom_itx> i have the leds
[03:05:28] <djdelorie> and it's 7 watts at 120 VAC, not 7 watts at 50 VDC
[03:05:38] <Tom_itx> if they don't drain it quick enough i'll add something else
[03:05:46] <pfred1> true as the filament heats up the resistance goes up doesn't it?
[03:06:16] <djdelorie> don't know, don't care. It's a resistor, that's all I care about :-)
[03:06:20] <pfred1> bulbs are reactive loads
[03:06:36] <djdelorie> reactive?
[03:06:40] <pfred1> sure
[03:06:50] <djdelorie> what makes you say that?
[03:06:51] <pfred1> they aren't constant
[03:07:04] <djdelorie> "reactive" implies a capacitive or inductive component
[03:07:05] <pfred1> that is what makes them great current limiters
[03:08:14] <pfred1> bulbs react in their own special way
[03:09:05] <pfred1> there were speakers made once that used light bulbs as current limiters yo ucould plug the speakers into the wall and they wouldn't blow
[03:10:30] <pfred1> plus there is a popular stepper motor driver that uses bulbs as current limiters
[03:26:58] <alex4nder> case ordered
[03:27:12] <alex4nder> looks like I can fit a mesa pci-e card in there as well
[03:28:55] <A0Sheds> http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/bfs/2980580030.html Walker turner radial drill press - $600
[03:29:11] <A0Sheds> wish it had better pics
[03:30:10] ybit is now known as dailybitcoins
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[03:49:32] <pfred1> think my PC has enough cooling fans? http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/imageview.php?image=3101
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[04:10:26] <Jymmm> pfred1: No, there's still room for more.
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[04:14:30] <Jymmm> alex4nder: So, what cables come with the mobo?
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[04:39:40] <Thetawaves> incredible http://www.home-machine-shop.com/projects/Mark_Ho/HoArt7.jpg
[04:40:37] <toastydeath> eh? what's that?
[04:40:42] <toastydeath> perspective?
[04:40:42] <toastydeath> http://www.stolkmachine.com/images/cnc-horizontal-boring-mill-big.jpg
[04:45:22] <Thetawaves> the level craftsmen ship in those figures
[04:46:36] <djdelorie> even if it's CGI, it's still incredible
[04:47:08] <djdelorie> (but it doesn't appear to be CGI)
[04:48:58] <pfred1> that isn't raytracing?
[04:49:12] <djdelorie> http://www.home-machine-shop.com/projects/Mark_Ho/Artist_In_Metal_Mark_Ho.htm
[04:54:17] <pfred1> it looks CGI but i guess it is for real?
[04:54:24] <toastydeath> it's for real
[04:54:57] <toastydeath> he's got a good photographer
[04:55:03] <toastydeath> or is a good photographer
[04:55:23] <toastydeath> it's just crosslit and that gives things a very surreal quality to them
[04:59:43] <pfred1> this is fake http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/gallery_images/hubble_rns_compare_lg.jpg
[05:00:16] <pfred1> well one of them is
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[05:02:21] <toastydeath> i'm going to guess it's the one that isn't slightly out of focus and has a crumpled, metallized cloth finish
[05:03:59] <pfred1> they made it with this: http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/gallery_images/discover_ibm_0309.jpg which I don't think would fit very well onto my desktop
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[05:04:44] <pfred1> I wonder if it runs Linux?
[05:04:55] <pfred1> good chance it does
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[05:06:05] <pfred1> hmmm they're not saying but I can't imagine it is running anything else
[05:06:44] <toastydeath> there's no reason to have an ssi machine for raytracing
[05:06:55] <toastydeath> so chances are >95% it's linux
[05:07:16] <pfred1> http://www.hec.nasa.gov/news/features/2009/hubble_rns.072809.html
[05:08:58] <toastydeath> runs suse linux, apparently
[05:09:03] <toastydeath> http://www.nccs.nasa.gov/cluster_main.html
[05:09:10] <pfred1> oh it says?
[05:09:29] <pfred1> that looks like a different machine
[05:09:35] <toastydeath> same one
[05:09:53] <Jymmm> Valen: A universal charger perhapse? http://www.mini-box.com/OpenUPS
[05:10:54] <pfred1> yeah you almost have to be retarded today to run a cluster on anything but Linux
[05:13:15] <toastydeath> linux still doesn't do ssi very well
[05:13:27] <toastydeath> so there are some very large clusters out there that run other unix variants
[05:13:35] <pfred1> pretty soon we won't need telescopes we'll just be able to make everything up with CGI
[05:16:14] <Jymmm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tandem_Computers
[05:16:31] <Jymmm> (Guardian OS)
[05:17:12] <Jymmm> I will say the Himalaya's were very nice.
[05:18:35] <Jymmm> alex4nder: You ALMOST had me sold on that mobo. I still might, but doubtful.
[05:18:57] <alex4nder> Jymmm: what?
[05:19:01] <pfred1> Jymmm what do you need a mobo for?
[05:19:21] <alex4nder> buy whatever you want
[05:19:30] <Jymmm> alex4nder: It has a realtek nic chipset instead of an intel
[05:19:36] <alex4nder> no it doesn't
[05:19:46] <Jymmm> Yes, it does. Read the specs
[05:19:47] <pfred1> realtek nics are fine
[05:19:53] <alex4nder> Jymmm: dude, I have the board in front of me
[05:20:05] <alex4nder> I pased the PCIe info the channel earlier.
[05:20:16] <alex4nder> +to
[05:21:03] * pfred1 Linux and realtek got back a loooong time ....
[05:21:37] <pfred1> ne2k baby yeah!
[05:21:57] <alex4nder> Jymmm: http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20714/eng/DN2800MT_TechProdSpec02.pdf <- or you could read the specs
[05:22:10] <alex4nder> and see the Intel *257$L gigabit ethernet controller reference in 1.11.1
[05:22:19] <alex4nder> er 82574L
[05:22:37] <pfred1> is intel gigabit better than realtek gigabit somehow?
[05:22:46] <alex4nder> in theory yes
[05:23:40] <pfred1> expound on the theory I'm fascinated
[05:24:00] <Jymmm> alex4nder: ok, they fscked up http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[05:24:29] <alex4nder> yup
[05:24:32] <Jymmm> alex4nder: But some intel mobo's DO come with realtek
[05:24:37] <Jymmm> nics
[05:24:41] <alex4nder> of course, but not this one.
[05:24:45] <pfred1> yeah because intel knows it don't matter
[05:25:07] <Jymmm> pfred1: There are KNOWN issues under linux for relatek nics
[05:25:15] <Jymmm> and have been a for a coupel fo years
[05:25:38] <pfred1> Jymmm nothing I've ever known about
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[05:25:59] <Jymmm> pfred1: ok, so you dont know anything, that doens't change the fact.
[05:26:13] <pfred1> Jymmm got a link?
[05:26:26] <Jymmm> nope
[05:28:36] <alex4nder> well whatever
[05:28:40] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Ok, I may try it. But I'm kinda looking at the Jet with 6 sata ports
[05:28:55] <alex4nder> haha I don't care man, get whatever board floats your boat.
[05:29:04] <Jymmm> O_o
[05:29:10] <pfred1> I think it all boils down to feathres
[05:29:19] <pfred1> features not feathers
[05:29:21] <alex4nder> haha
[05:29:36] <pfred1> hey if you're that way maybe it does all boil down to feathers
[05:30:13] <alex4nder> yah
[05:30:20] <alex4nder> you look at your requirements, and you make a choice.
[05:30:30] <Jymmm> Hmm, I wonder if that OpenUPS + that intel board would be a good match
[05:30:36] <pfred1> or look at what is on sale
[05:30:41] <Jymmm> literally same price
[05:31:04] <pfred1> because in 2 years it is going to be so much junk anyways
[05:31:09] <Jymmm> alex4nder: What cables does it come with?
[05:31:34] <alex4nder> sata, and power for a sata drive from the motherboard
[05:31:56] <pfred1> Jymmm right now you want pcie3 and usb3
[05:32:36] <Jymmm> alex4nder: 1 or 2 pair of cables?
[05:33:07] <alex4nder> 2?
[05:33:18] <Jymmm> k
[05:33:22] <pfred1> why does sata power come off the mobo?
[05:33:36] <alex4nder> because the motherboard has an integrated power supply
[05:33:40] <Jymmm> alex4nder: do they give any specs for the power connectors?
[05:33:48] <Jymmm> alex4nder: internal
[05:33:50] <alex4nder> yah, they're in intel's tech document
[05:34:00] <pfred1> alex4nder is this an atom board?
[05:34:06] <alex4nder> yup
[05:34:07] <Jymmm> ok, only on pg18
[05:34:57] <alex4nder> you need to read the product tech specs
[05:35:08] <alex4nder> section 2.6.1 has a full breakdown on component power consumption
[05:35:21] <pfred1> what is it like 16 watts?
[05:35:57] <alex4nder> the CPU isn't the huge sucker of juice
[05:36:02] <alex4nder> it's all the little bits you can hook to it
[05:36:17] <alex4nder> I'll do a write-up on it once I actually test it on the mill
[05:36:20] <pfred1> forget about that what is it bare?
[05:36:32] <alex4nder> read the specs
[05:36:42] <alex4nder> there are all sorts of different conditions
[05:36:53] <alex4nder> idle is like sub 10 watts or something
[05:37:09] <pfred1> sounds typical for an atom
[05:37:41] <pfred1> dual or quad?
[05:37:48] <alex4nder> dual
[05:40:08] <pfred1> ah ha they haven't even released the quads yet
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[05:43:16] <Jymmm> alex4nder: 30¢ for a powee connector?! that's outragous!!!! lol
[05:44:20] <alex4nder> I picked up a DB25 to IDC26 adapter, and a case
[05:44:23] <pfred1> woah the newest atoms aren't very cheap
[05:44:39] <alex4nder> the case has got room for a mesa pcie card
[05:44:44] <pfred1> you could buy a real PC for what they cost!
[05:44:52] <Jymmm> alex4nder: Heh, I got a bag of those =)
[05:45:47] <Jymmm> alex4nder: it sas 8-19VDC, you shoudl try a 9V battery for the hell of it
[05:46:02] <pfred1> it'd work
[05:47:04] <alex4nder> yah
[05:47:08] <alex4nder> until it doesn't. ;)
[05:47:24] <pfred1> take a bit before it fell below 8V
[05:47:35] <alex4nder> I'm using two supplies on my mill right now.. 13.8v and 48v
[05:47:38] <alex4nder> so it works out
[05:48:08] <pfred1> it seems there are no Linux drivers for the latest atom GPU
[05:48:24] <alex4nder> there are
[05:48:30] <alex4nder> they're just binary only, and old.
[05:48:32] <alex4nder> which blows.
[05:49:38] <pfred1> then wikipedia is out of date
[05:49:46] <Jymmm> Cool, they still have BIOS recovery mode. I hope they NEVER get rid of that feature.
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[05:50:20] <alex4nder> pfred1: I tried getting them working today.. Meego is shipping with them
[05:50:32] <alex4nder> but they're an older ABI, and I don't want to downgrade X
[05:50:39] <pfred1> alex4nder you have an D2500?
[05:51:08] <alex4nder> dn2800mt
[05:51:11] <Jymmm> pfred1: are you having a bad hair day today by chance?
[05:51:20] <pfred1> Jymmm why?
[05:51:25] <Jymmm> pfred1: are you having a bad hair day today by chance?
[05:51:30] <pfred1> Jymmm why?
[05:51:36] <Jymmm> answer first
[05:51:45] <pfred1> no my hair rox
[05:52:01] <Jymmm> well, other things dont and why I asked
[05:56:36] <alex_joni> what's a 'custom solutions header'?
[05:56:56] <Jymmm> alex4nder: I only see the one sata power connector (I) near edge of heatsink on section 1.1.2, is it a dual cable?
[05:57:22] <Jymmm> alex_joni: This mobo doesn't use ATX 24 connector, it runs from 8-19VDC directly, any source
[05:57:40] <Jymmm> alex_joni: rear panel coax, or on board molex
[05:57:55] <alex4nder> Jymmm: the power cable is multiple connectors.
[05:58:04] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ah, thanks.
[05:58:21] <alex_joni> Jymmm: that doesn't answer my question
[05:58:41] <Jymmm> alex_joni: then rephrase the question
[05:59:13] <alex_joni> http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/dn2800mt/sb/CS-032652.htm
[05:59:20] <alex_joni> what is 'X'?
[05:59:52] <alex4nder> alex_joni: it's in the tech specs
[05:59:54] <alex4nder> http://downloadmirror.intel.com/20714/eng/DN2800MT_TechProdSpec02.pdf
[06:00:10] <alex4nder> they should have just called it 'misc. signal connector'
[06:00:17] <pfred1> I can't figure out what CPU alex4nder's board has on it
[06:01:00] <alex4nder> N2800
[06:01:20] <alex_joni> alex4nder: so it's some bits you can access?
[06:01:50] <alex4nder> alex_joni: yes and no, it's more of a grabbag
[06:02:12] <alex4nder> SMB_{CLK,DATA}_RESUME, 3.3v standby. PWRBT#, HDMI CEC, Watch Dog Timer, Ground
[06:03:05] <alex_joni> ah, so not really usefull ;)
[06:03:25] <alex4nder> I guess that depends on what you're doing. ;)
[06:03:30] <alex4nder> someone cares about it
[06:04:24] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Here you go... http://www.pcworld.com/article/143777/the_secret_feature_on_your_hdtv_hdmi_cec.html
[06:04:51] <Jymmm> alex_joni: You can now control your pc via tv remote
[06:05:52] <alex4nder> I think it's more like, now your custom digital signage control boards can now receive that signal and do something with it.
[06:06:00] <alex4nder> like turn your machine on and off.
[06:06:03] <alex_joni> Jymmm: when it works :)
[06:06:05] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Err, I meant to say your CNC fro your TV Remote =)
[06:06:26] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Hit the REWIND button and see what happens =)
[06:06:57] <alex_joni> they don't mention linux support for it :D
[06:07:02] <alex_joni> http://www.intel.com/support/motherboards/desktop/sb/cs-008326.htm
[06:08:04] <pfred1> alex4nder so this is what you have? http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXDN2800MT-Desktop-Board-DN2800MT/dp/B006XFIK08
[06:08:20] <Jymmm> alex_joni: That's only becasue those lazy ass romaian developers haven't written one yet!
[06:08:59] <pfred1> freaking romaians we should throw them back to the Klingon empire!
[06:09:15] <Jymmm> I say the wolves
[06:09:18] <Jymmm> alex_joni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC
[06:10:41] <Jymmm> alex_joni: Glorified Karioki machine maybe?
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[06:11:56] <Jymmm> Hmmm, now to find a LCD panel that fits
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[06:13:27] <Jymmm> alex4nder: the ONLY thing they missed was making the coax connector switch out the internal/external power.
[06:14:08] <alex4nder> pfred1: yup
[06:14:22] <pfred1> alex4nder Intel says it could be cheaper
[06:14:35] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I don't really understand the importance of something like that
[06:14:37] <pfred1> Recommended Customer Price $96 - $101
[06:14:52] <alex_joni> pfred1: was that meant for me?
[06:15:04] <alex_joni> Jymmm: but this way you can power something else from it
[06:15:16] <pfred1> alex_joni I don't think so
[06:15:41] <pfred1> /msg alex4nder Intel says it could be cheaper
[06:16:15] <alex_joni> pfred1: no, I meant the comment about romanians and klingons
[06:16:39] <pfred1> alex_joni do you have pointy ears?
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[06:17:31] <alex_joni> pfred1: I might develop them later
[06:17:39] <pfred1> alex_joni green blood?
[06:18:27] <alex_joni> in appropriate lighting
[06:18:46] <pfred1> then you should go back to the Klingons
[06:19:15] * alex4nder sets up a Debian repository
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[06:48:39] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:07:21] * Valen looks at installing a terminal server farm :-<
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[07:17:00] <Jymmm> alex4nder: If it had a switched coax connector on the rear, you could (potentially) make the internal connector a battery
[07:18:06] <Jymmm> a standby battery
[07:18:48] <Jymmm> I guess you could do it anyway, but would need to add some intelligence to it
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[10:06:17] <r00t4rd3d> e-ndy, you are not important enough to have an away nick.
[10:06:23] <r00t4rd3d> no one cares
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[10:29:17] <e-ndy> a still tongue makes a wise head
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[10:44:10] <r00t4rd3d> my tongue didnt move during the typing of that sentence.
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[10:53:58] <e-ndy> but that doesn't imply, that you are wise :)
[10:57:06] <jthornton> e-ndy, please turn off your status reporting it seems to toggle back and forth constanly and floods with messages about your being away from your keyboard
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[11:03:55] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:30:46] <jthornton> morning
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[11:45:29] <Tom_itx> hey
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[12:35:37] <jthornton> logger[mah], log
[12:35:38] <logger[mah]> jthornton: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-30.html
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[15:10:22] <jdhNC> pcw?
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[15:12:58] <pcw_home> ?
[15:15:06] <jdhNC> is there a way to keep my pwmgen from floating high when linuxcnc is not running?
[15:15:24] <jdhNC> 7i43/7i47
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[15:18:11] <pcw_home> One of the 7I47outputs will be low before Linux CNC starts. chose this output
[15:19:09] <jdhNC> one of the pair?
[15:19:38] <pcw_home> (this is the inverting output = +)
[15:19:49] <jdhNC> when I use the other half of TX0, the pwm is reversed
[15:20:16] <pcw_home> Then invert the PWM output (is_invert)
[15:20:45] <jdhNC> nice. i'll try that tonight. Thanks.
[15:21:22] <pcw_home> sorry tag is "invert_output"
[15:22:12] <Gromits> Anyone familiar with Gladevcp reload object?
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[15:25:45] <pcw_home> so its something like
[15:25:47] <pcw_home> setp blah.blah.blah.gpioN.invert_output true
[15:26:59] <jdhNC> I found an example where you answered a similar question a few months ago.
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[15:37:06] <JT-Shop> pcw_home: we had a power failure yesterday and trying to restart the BP with the 5i25/7i77 only the analog pins show up on the 7i77 when I view them in show hal config. Any suggestions?
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[15:50:51] <pcw_home> Check field power
[15:52:02] <pcw_home> 7I77 is like the 7I76, all bit I/O is powered by the 12/24V field power
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[15:53:39] <JT-Shop> field power 24v CR3 is on
[15:57:20] <pcw_home> so you restart EMC and only the encoders/analog show up?
[15:59:58] <JT-Shop> yes, I powered down everything then powered back up a couple of times
[16:00:06] <JT-Shop> let me look to see the encoders show up
[16:00:51] <JT-Shop> yes encoders show up under 5i25
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[16:03:02] <pcw_home> Well I guess the next thing is to check the 24V and then the 3.3V on the field I/O isolated side
[16:03:40] <pcw_home> also (5I25 part of) dmesg may help
[16:10:19] <JT-Shop> where do I check the 24v and 3.3v?
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[16:13:09] <pcw_home> 24V is on the input (VIN = TB2 pin 5) relative to TB2 pin 8 (field power gnd)
[16:15:19] <pcw_home> 3.3V is on the bottom side of L1 (little ferrite inductor on center left of TB2) above lower electrolytic (C33)
[16:17:06] <JT-Shop> ok, I checked 24v on TB2 and that is ok
[16:20:21] <JT-Shop> what is the gnd for L1?
[16:24:39] <pcw_home> tb2 pin 8 (field power gnd)
[16:27:46] <JT-Shop> ok
[16:30:53] <JT-Shop> 3.28v on L1
[16:31:55] <JT-Shop> I'll clear dmesg and reload the config with an input
[16:32:05] <pcw_home> OK so maybe its a I/O fault of some kind. can you pastebin the dmesg
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[16:38:39] <JT-Shop> hmmm, for some strange reason I had to reboot and now it works
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[16:45:10] <pcw_home> power cycle or just reboot?
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[16:49:03] <JT-Shop> reboot
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[16:56:46] <pcw_home> Well thats mysterious then...
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[17:10:56] <JT-Shop> yea, you fixed it by magic
[17:12:04] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: how long inbetween powering down/up everything?
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[17:12:48] <JT-Shop> I didn't keep track
[17:12:58] <Jymmm> seconds? minutes? hours?
[17:13:05] <JT-Shop> truck hit pole at 2pm yesterday
[17:13:45] <JT-Shop> power was restored to the house at 9:31pm
[17:14:08] <JT-Shop> I don't know when I turned it on this morning
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[17:28:20] <Tom_itx> logger[mah]
[17:28:20] <logger[mah]> Tom_itx: Log stored at http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/%23linuxcnc/2012-04-30.html
[17:34:10] <Tom_itx> ok, what do you use to bleed off the main caps on power off? i asked this yesterday and someone said the power led was sufficient. i considered a 500 ohm 10w r or so. will the led's bring it down in a timely manner or should i look for another bleed off source. ~20,000 uf caps ~50v
[17:34:31] <Tom_itx> and does it matter if the logic supply comes online before the main supply?
[17:34:55] <Tom_itx> steppers with a 7i43 7i47 board
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[17:37:28] <pcw_home> well a fairly hefty LED current of 10 mA would be 5K Ohm = 100 seconds time constant
[17:37:54] <Tom_itx> my psu board will have a place for 3 leds
[17:38:39] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: on my phase converter I put some panel indicator lights AB for each phase and they work good to drain the caps...
[17:38:42] <pcw_home> do you like bright LEDs (newer LED are so efficient that they are often blinding at 10 mA)
[17:38:59] <Tom_itx> also, i'm coming off the centertap of one transformer to get a lower voltage for my 5v smps for the logic
[17:39:12] <Tom_itx> i don't care about the leds. i can hide them if i don't like it :)
[17:39:35] <Tom_itx> i've got some old old leds that should work good for this
[17:40:23] <pcw_home> for servos I would have an active charge dump but at 50V and step motors thats too much trouble
[17:41:01] <Tom_itx> i considered a relay or a dpdt power switch and use one leg for a resistor drain
[17:41:24] <Tom_itx> simple but effective
[17:41:36] <pcw_home> Yeah that good for servos as it will do braking as well
[17:42:18] <Tom_itx> i hope to get some wiring done on the stepper drivers today
[17:43:30] <pcw_home> Shorting out step motors doesn't work the same way it does with servo motors unfortunately
[17:43:57] <Tom_itx> the short would be at the psu caps
[17:44:32] <pcw_home> yes this brakes servo motors
[17:44:47] <Tom_itx> oh really? even thru the driver?
[17:44:53] <pcw_home> yes
[17:44:59] <Tom_itx> good to know
[17:45:05] <Tom_itx> i guess that makes sense
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[17:45:14] <Tom_itx> since they act as a generator
[17:45:38] <pcw_home> the driver is just a single or 3 phase bridge rectifier if theres no gate drive
[17:45:59] <pcw_home> (with the DC out on the capacitor terminals)
[17:48:25] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu_index.php
[17:48:28] <Tom_itx> progress report
[17:49:00] <Tom_itx> i need to find / build a box for all the driver psu stuff
[17:49:31] <Tom_itx> i lucked out on that heatsink material. scrap yard bonus
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[17:54:14] <Tom_itx> the sherline spindle motor was bitchin about taking a full cut off those fins for a mounting flange
[17:55:06] <Tom_itx> i miss the Okumas
[17:55:37] * Thetawaves nuked his power supply project yet again so just went and bought a danfoss s1000
[17:56:27] <Tom_itx> mine were surplus and so far are working out quite nicely
[17:56:45] <Thetawaves> the transformers?
[17:56:58] <Tom_itx> yeah
[17:57:11] <Thetawaves> it is nice to use transformers in home made psu, i can't find that kind of iron though
[17:57:14] <Tom_itx> 50v dc at about 18A
[17:57:57] <Tom_itx> i checked the output of each one before i combined them
[17:58:58] <Thetawaves> you know about hooking them up in the same direction and such
[17:59:07] <Thetawaves> yeah?
[17:59:08] <Tom_itx> yes
[17:59:11] <Thetawaves> k
[17:59:21] <Tom_itx> i joined them after the bridges though
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[17:59:32] <Thetawaves> why?
[17:59:37] <Tom_itx> otherwise i would have checked the phases
[17:59:45] <pcw_home> Nice heatsink
[17:59:55] <Tom_itx> because i originally was gonna make 3 supplies but decided one was better
[17:59:58] <Tom_itx> so i had the parts
[18:00:07] <Tom_itx> pcw_home i got about 8' of it
[18:01:31] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves, i did join the primaries on the transformers though
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[18:04:55] <Tom_itx> this is way overkill for the sherline but i'm building for future expansion
[18:05:33] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx: looking good
[18:14:24] * Jymmm lol @ Tom_itx
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[18:16:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: nice find on the heatsink though
[18:17:16] <andypugh> A guy on the forum is using some useful looking servo amps, 220VA input, and they take step/dir or quadrature or analogue or serial input.
[18:17:27] <andypugh> (22VAC I mean)
[18:17:48] <andypugh> No, I don't mean that either. I mean 220V AC
[18:17:56] <Jymmm> =)
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[18:18:18] <Jymmm> I liked the 22V AC better
[18:19:07] <Jymmm> 22V AC @ 220VA works for me =)
[18:20:46] <Tom_itx> Jymmm you don't like my wiring job? :)
[18:21:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Your wiring is perfectly fine
[18:21:41] <Jymmm> I like the c channel for the xfmr mounts too, easy to carry without pinching fingers
[18:22:55] <Tom_itx> i'm just using stuff i have on hand
[18:23:21] <Tom_itx> i hope to find / make a box for it all
[18:23:40] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I might have used grommets on the holes though, I can't count the times there has been a micro-slice in the insulation and cause intermittant shorts.
[18:23:54] <Jymmm> hard to locate too
[18:23:58] <Tom_itx> yeah i put thick heatshrink around them
[18:25:35] <Jymmm> those edges still look sharp, did you deburr them?
[18:25:40] <Tom_itx> yup
[18:25:45] <Tom_itx> both sides
[18:26:31] <Jymmm> still look sharp to me but *shrug*
[18:26:35] <Tom_itx> it's probably all gonna come apart again anyway once i get the boards for my caps
[18:27:08] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I'd bevel the edges with a reamer or large drill bit
[18:27:20] <Jymmm> no 90deg edges
[18:27:21] <Tom_itx> i used a debur bit
[18:27:35] <Jymmm> ok, maybe it's just the photo then =)
[18:28:15] <Jymmm> Why did you mix/match solder/crimp-ons?
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[18:28:50] <Tom_itx> did i?
[18:29:09] <Jymmm> Looks like it to me... http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/psu/psu4.jpg
[18:29:58] <Thetawaves> servo motors seem expensive and weak compared to steppers, whats the deal?
[18:30:07] <Tom_itx> i cheated and took the sleeve off some of them so i could get both wires in then i soldered all the wires in place and put heatshrink over the bare ones
[18:30:30] <Tom_itx> Thetawaves they're not weaker, you use them differently
[18:30:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you soldered the crimpons?
[18:30:50] <Tom_itx> sure did
[18:31:04] <Thetawaves> Tom_itx, how so?
[18:31:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: not a good thing to do just fyi
[18:31:06] <Tom_itx> i don't like stuff coming loose
[18:31:14] <Thetawaves> gear down because they run faster?
[18:31:16] <Tom_itx> and pray tell why not?
[18:31:44] <Thetawaves> soldered crimpons are bad for cables, things that move
[18:31:51] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: servos provide MUCH more torque at higher RPMs
[18:31:59] <Thetawaves> the copper will fatigue at the end of the solder
[18:32:02] <Tom_itx> i don't think those are gonna move
[18:32:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: the solder makes the wire strands a solid and brittle, more tendancy to break
[18:32:23] <Thetawaves> it's not an issue for case wiring
[18:32:28] <djdelorie> Tom_itx: I used to solder crimps too, but no longer.
[18:33:26] <Thetawaves> djdelorie, how comparable are servo motors for small movements?
[18:33:33] <Jymmm> I used crimpsons all the time, but I have a $100 pair of crimpers too. The wire will break before coming out of the crimp.
[18:33:38] <djdelorie> if tuned right, I can hold 0.09 degree
[18:33:38] <Jymmm> s/used/use/
[18:33:38] <Thetawaves> where the higher rpm isn't necessarily used
[18:33:43] <Tom_itx> it's funny how forums and opinions vary
[18:33:57] <djdelorie> and since they're encoder based, I *know* where they are when they're "microstepping"
[18:34:22] <jdhNC> I know where my steppers are too... somewhere between the real steps.
[18:34:25] <djdelorie> Mine can do 100 oz-in continuous, 350 oz-in intermittent, and that's from dead stop to 3000 RPM
[18:34:28] <syyl> mh a correct done crimp will never come loose
[18:34:34] <Tom_itx> Jymmm, i have a $10 pair and kept the $90
[18:34:37] <syyl> soldering makes it only bad :(
[18:34:48] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: you used a lighter to shrink the tubing?! *sigh* what am I going to do with you
[18:34:50] <Thetawaves> so the screw design for servo systems isn't usually direct drive?
[18:34:51] <djdelorie> jdhNC: the difference is "somewhere" vs "I know exactly where"
[18:35:13] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: and thuse why you dont trust it well enough that you think you need to solder it too.
[18:35:22] <Thetawaves> sort of djdelorie, your encoders aren't exact
[18:35:25] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: I geared mine up/down to match the screw rods, but I suspect direct drive is popular.
[18:35:25] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't anyway
[18:35:36] <djdelorie> Thetawaves: how do you know?
[18:35:51] <Thetawaves> i suppose it depends on the encoder technology
[18:36:04] <djdelorie> Another advantage of encoder-based systems: you can't possibly "miss" a step, you just lag behind until you catch up
[18:36:53] <djdelorie> so, for example, my controllers keep track of the motor position even when the motor power is removed, and can correct when power is restored
[18:37:04] <Thetawaves> so 350 oz-in from dead stop to going... that is pretty handy and also not mentioned anywhere in the specs about these motors
[18:37:24] <Thetawaves> i assume you have 100oz-in rated servos
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[18:38:04] <Thetawaves> ac? brushless dc? brushed dc? what kind of servos
[18:38:52] <djdelorie> http://www.electrocraft.com/files/ead_bldc.pdf page 9, mine are the DA34GBB-13 graph
[18:39:18] <djdelorie> ok, 340 oz-in ;-)
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[18:40:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: what was the name of the place you got your power supply from?
[18:40:40] <djdelorie> They're marked DA34FBB-3AA, brushless DC, 160v design voltage, 134 oz-in continuous stall, 335 oz-in peak, 5000 RPM max
[18:41:08] <Jymmm> what is "continuous stall" ?
[18:41:22] <djdelorie> continuous stall is the equivalent of a stepper's "holding torque"
[18:41:34] <Jymmm> ah
[18:41:44] <Jymmm> funny name
[18:42:03] <Jymmm> continous hold seems like a better name
[18:42:14] <djdelorie> the terms assume the motor is running at some RPM, so "stopped" means there's so much load on it that the motor stalled
[18:42:31] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: Antek not Antec which is the first to show up with a google search even if you type in antek
[18:42:55] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ty
[18:43:03] <Thetawaves> why can't i find the column for the 34G in that table?
[18:43:03] <JT-Shop> http://antekinc.com/
[18:43:51] <JT-Shop> dang my 24v power supply is shorted in the CHNC...
[18:44:15] <Tom_itx> probably used heatshrink instead of grommets :)
[18:44:49] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Does the CHNC has fuses internally on the 24V line?
[18:45:00] <Jymmm> s/has/have/
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[18:46:18] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If there are 24V relays, pull them till no more short. I bet one might have arc'ed closed or some such nonsense.
[18:46:47] <JT-Shop> circuit breaker and the power supply has a fuse but it is not blown
[18:47:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: been there done that, the only thing that trips the breaker is the power supply
[18:47:52] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: 24V breaker?
[18:48:03] <JT-Shop> 120vac breaker
[18:48:21] <djdelorie> those tend to be slow-trip
[18:48:21] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: it is the power supply for sure
[18:48:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: is the PS original to the chnc?
[18:48:31] <JT-Shop> yes
[18:49:08] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ah, well shit... that's an easy fix =) I thought you meant the OTHER side of the PS.
[18:49:23] <JT-Shop> what other side
[18:49:29] <Jymmm> The Dark side!
[18:49:35] <JT-Shop> I thought so
[18:49:50] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: the 24V side of the PS, not the AC side.
[18:50:20] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Doesn't your new PS have 24V too?
[18:50:26] <JT-Shop> it's on the inside not the AC side or DC side
[18:50:53] <JT-Shop> the Antek is for the plasma and it has 5v and 12v
[18:51:00] <Jymmm> oh
[18:51:00] <Tom_itx> winding shorted?
[18:51:01] <JT-Shop> for/in
[18:51:31] <JT-Shop> dunnno Tom_itx
[18:51:48] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, contact antek and see if you get qty discount =) LOL
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[18:52:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Oh ghetto it together using wallworts temporarily =)
[18:52:58] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ghetto Swamp!
[18:53:03] <JT-Shop> nothing was cooperative enough to leave a smoke trail
[18:53:25] <JT-Shop> we should have some power supplies at the other shop on the shelf
[18:54:04] <JT-Shop> about 1/10 the size of this mod squad era power supply
[18:54:17] <Tom_itx> gotta lovem
[18:54:31] <Jymmm> mod who?
[18:54:52] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I don't need an Ankek power supply for the CHCN
[18:55:06] <JT-Shop> just a little 24v one for some relays
[18:55:21] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: And your telling me this, why?
[18:56:30] <Tom_itx> telling you what?
[18:56:53] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: nm
[18:57:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I was kidding.
[18:57:12] <Tom_itx> send me a torroid and i'll use it
[18:57:41] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Fine, it's 1/2" across, now use it!
[18:58:26] <Jymmm> I've never understood why xfmr mfr's NEVER put specs on them.
[18:58:55] <Jymmm> I find zillions of torroids/xfmrs and it's a guess at what they are.
[18:59:42] <Thetawaves> only a few minutes left on the clock http://www.spacex.com/webcast.php
[19:00:44] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: how much of that heatsink you have left?
[19:00:50] <Thetawaves> T-0:47
[19:00:52] <Tom_itx> plenty
[19:01:01] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: width?
[19:01:04] <Tom_itx> 5"
[19:01:16] <Jymmm> Hmmm
[19:01:39] <andypugh> Hang on, I have watched James Bond films, it's impossible to stop a countdown!
[19:01:41] <JT-Shop> clock is stuck
[19:01:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: =)
[19:02:05] <Tom_itx> andypugh they are set to stop at .001 sec
[19:02:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: It's Bond, James Bond I thought.
[19:02:39] <andypugh> Evil Overlord rule 4. Have the bomb detonate at 7 on the timer.
[19:02:41] <JT-Shop> someone call Wernher he can count down in several languages
[19:03:07] <alex4nder> yoh
[19:03:34] <andypugh> If the rockets go up / who cares where they come down? / He's our kind of Nazi is Werner von Braun.
[19:04:20] <JT-Shop> yep
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[19:08:30] <andypugh> Is there any update on what is going on? (other than the Twittter feed, as I am not a twit)
[19:10:21] -!- fliebel_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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[19:13:11] <andypugh> T -13 mins
[19:14:37] <JT-Shop> what's a twit?
[19:16:02] * JT-Shop will let someone else answer how to make a CNC color by numbers kit...
[19:16:13] <andypugh> Someone who uses Twitter, I assume
[19:16:37] <JT-Shop> must be... wonder what a Twitter is?
[19:17:17] <Tom_itx> a twizzle of tweets
[19:17:52] <JT-Shop> do they taste like Quail?
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[19:36:54] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: possum
[19:37:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: gritty and mean as hell!
[19:37:27] <Jymmm> at least momma is
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[19:38:16] <Loetmichel> soo, a step further... 16V 20A Spindle power: done! 32V 3A Stepper power: done! now i have to make a 5V 0,5A supply for the Stepper driver and a 12V 0,5A suppy for the Limit switches. -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13155
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[19:40:14] <tom3p> i cant take advantage of this deal, but its 4 axis cnc edm with 16posn atc, servos and linear scales, 64amp p/s, dead clean, free delivery http://tinyurl.com/d82vzxu
[19:40:26] <tom3p> hope someone gets it
[19:40:59] <FinboySlick> tom3p: It is indeed quite lovely.
[19:41:00] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: or jsut use a PC power supply
[19:41:04] <djdelorie> holy pricetags batman!
[19:41:42] <tom3p> dirt cheap look around
[19:41:44] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the PC PSU is "downstairs"
[19:41:53] <Loetmichel> (in the other compartment)
[19:41:56] <tom3p> include erowa nose on the c axis
[19:42:11] <Loetmichel> i dont WANT to use the PC psu for the stepper power
[19:42:33] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: Are you being picky again?
[19:43:13] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I've harvested 12/5V PS from external hdd cases before, perfect size
[19:43:18] <Loetmichel> and the 5V and 12V are no problem, the left Toroid Transofter has fitting windings already, just some rectifiers, son caps and a 7805/7812
[19:44:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Look for the old external scsi drive cases, they have an internal PS and a IEC connector on the back, usually fused and EMI/EFI filter built in.
[19:44:17] <Jymmm> EMI/RFI
[19:44:23] <Loetmichel> Jymmm / FinboySlick: no, not picky, but i dont want to use the PC PSU cause i can switch the PC on and off without activating the Stepper PSU
[19:44:48] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: I'm not saying use THE pc ps, I said use A pc ps
[19:44:56] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the transformer is already there, why not use it?
[19:45:07] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I wasn't even following the discussion... It just seemed like a good opportunity to pick on you.
[19:45:10] <Loetmichel> you mean: another one?
[19:45:16] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: xfmr is AC, you still need the rest
[19:45:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Look for the old external scsi drive cases, they have an internal PS and a IEC connector on the back, usually fused and EMI/RFI filter built in. Cheap too
[19:45:54] <Loetmichel> so what? like i said: some Capacitors, a 7805, a 7812, a little Heatsink, done ;-)
[19:46:05] <Loetmichel> all components i have here
[19:46:50] <Loetmichel> to be honest: i am no fan of SMPS, i avoid them where i can
[19:47:13] <Loetmichel> to bad overload capacity and to noisy dc ;-)
[19:47:15] <Jymmm> I undestand not liking sw ps,
[19:47:30] <Jymmm> Just a Q&D solution is all
[19:47:48] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: MORE dirty as the photo i just showed?
[19:48:11] <Loetmichel> that "§$"§&%( machine will bie CRAMMED with electronics down in the base ;-)
[19:48:15] <Loetmichel> be
[19:48:27] <FinboySlick> While on this topic though, how realistically small could one make a 20V DC 9Amp PSU?
[19:48:36] <FinboySlick> (from 120VAC.
[19:48:47] <Loetmichel> xformer or SMPS?
[19:48:47] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: NOTHIGN is that dirty, not even a $2 crack whore on 'get down and dirty for free day' =)
[19:49:05] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[19:49:45] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: I assume that a transformer would make it bigger.
[19:51:00] <Loetmichel> you assume richt
[19:51:02] <Loetmichel> right
[19:51:21] <FinboySlick> the design priorities would be 1, no electrical (and preferably acoustic) noise. 2 compact.
[19:51:43] <Loetmichel> oh, no noise.
[19:51:47] <Loetmichel> -> no smps
[19:52:03] <Loetmichel> the filters will be bbigger than the xformer ;-)
[19:52:18] <FinboySlick> Basically, I want to replace this: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/webca/LenovoPortal/en_CA/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=460&Code=0A36227&category-id=1BD1071447A5491FBFADF0D7ECCCFC10&hide_menu_area=yes
[19:52:24] <Loetmichel> do you have three phase?
[19:52:41] <Loetmichel> why?
[19:53:06] <FinboySlick> Because it wouldn't take much for it to be bigger and heavier than the laptop it powers.
[19:53:20] <FinboySlick> It's enormous.
[19:53:27] <Loetmichel> oh.
[19:53:55] <FinboySlick> I'm exagerating... But still, I'm having trouble finding laptop cases that can accomodate the PSU comfortably.
[19:54:03] <FinboySlick> And I figured it'd be an interesting electronics project.
[19:54:09] <Loetmichel> lets put it this way: i have to dismantle and modify Notebook PSUs in my daily job.
[19:54:10] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: There are MANY aftermarket PS like that. Do you really need 170W though?
[19:54:27] <FinboySlick> Yes, the laptop will get angry with 95W
[19:54:28] <Loetmichel> the PSUs are as cheap and compact as it gets
[19:55:13] <FinboySlick> Loetmichel: OK. I assumed putting more time/money on it might help me.
[19:55:22] <Loetmichel> there is NOTHING to omit to make it smaller
[19:55:48] <FinboySlick> It's also hissing so I figured I'll need a replacement at some point.
[19:56:03] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: It's an i7, not under warranty still?
[19:56:16] <Loetmichel> hissing mustn be a sign of an early death
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[19:56:50] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Yes. I'll have it replaced, but I would have enjoyed replacing it with something that doesn't weigh 2 pounds.
[19:57:09] <Loetmichel> most of the time the hissin is just a not perfect moulded HF transformer
[19:57:10] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: At 170W I doubt it.
[19:57:41] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: or at least not something you would trust too much.
[19:57:50] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: I get that now... I figured I'd ask the guys who know that stuff first though.
[19:58:15] <Loetmichel> if you buy some chines stuff and open it you will get a nice laugh, though
[19:58:30] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: =)
[19:58:39] <FinboySlick> I see these picoATX PSUs within that sort of power range so I wondered.
[19:58:50] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: Sad that's also 10% of the cost of the laptop too.
[19:59:05] <Loetmichel> here a charger for a keychain cam: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=8991
[19:59:06] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Not that sad in my case.
[19:59:22] <Loetmichel> one has to admit: the chines have cojones.
[19:59:27] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: 10% for a PS, yeah it is.
[19:59:28] <FinboySlick> You throw in a Quadro 2000 and fast SSD and a few upgrades and it.
[19:59:30] <Loetmichel> to sell something like this ;-)
[19:59:39] <FinboySlick> ... ups the ratio.
[19:59:59] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: and how long does the abttery last?
[20:00:13] <Jymmm> 48 minutes?
[20:00:29] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: Surprisingly good. I actually never got it below 50% in my current use.
[20:00:38] <FinboySlick> I estimate at least 5h.
[20:00:57] <Jymmm> O_o
[20:01:32] <FinboySlick> I don't typically have the laptop working that hard when it's on battery and it manages things well I guess.
[20:01:32] <Jymmm> A laptop that needs at 170W PS with a 9 cell battery lasts 5h???? I'm not seeign it.
[20:01:57] <Jymmm> maybe
[20:02:13] <FinboySlick> If I had it actually doing real work, it would probably devour the battery in an hour and a half.
[20:02:19] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: if the i7 cuts 3 cores and halves the clock in battery mode: why not?
[20:02:50] <FinboySlick> Jymmm: It also shuts down the nvidia video card and runs on the intel.
[20:03:46] <FinboySlick> It's definitely the nicest laptop I've had.
[20:03:55] <FinboySlick> All kinds of thoughtful goodies on it.
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[20:04:25] <Jymmm> FinboySlick: If it can run THAT GOOD, why would it require a 170W PS. It just doens't makes sense.
[20:04:40] <FinboySlick> That likely I'll never use, like the wireless hdmi whatever.
[20:04:44] <Jymmm> 120W, 95W ok. But 170W
[20:05:50] <Jymmm> My Lenovo laptop will run on 9VDC, but it won't charge till 15.1VDC, and comes with a 20VDC PS. It's just weird.
[20:08:01] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: horray for widerange SMPS ;)
[20:08:42] <Loetmichel> the internal Swtichers can step the 9V up and down to the needed voltages
[20:09:07] <Loetmichel> but the battery is charged directly from the psu input
[20:09:24] <Jymmm> No, I used a bench test PS, not a PC PS
[20:09:29] <Loetmichel> so the batter can only be charged if the voltage there is higher than the battery voltage
[20:09:44] <Jymmm> The battery is 12VDC
[20:09:47] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: the INTERNAL SMPS in the Notebook
[20:09:56] <Loetmichel> i dont think so
[20:10:04] <Jymmm> It says right on the label
[20:10:36] <Loetmichel> its either 10,8V or 14.4V
[20:10:50] <Loetmichel> or is it a PB battery?
[20:11:02] <Loetmichel> (HOW old is the laptop? ;-)
[20:12:57] <tom3p> your Smithy config directory has a load of goodies, eg add an MPG to a 5i20 ( see Naiky.hal); f
[20:13:02] <tom3p> or laser based tool setter, see Keyence files.
[20:13:03] <tom3p> and what was ez-trol anyaways, a custom Smithy-linuxcnc front end? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFLhIU0SCw
[20:13:22] <tom3p> i just used the NAIKY as a model for my Fanuc MPG, works great
[20:16:16] <JT-Shop> dang it was a shu-shu
[20:16:26] <andypugh> Hmm?
[20:16:43] -!- nots has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[20:16:46] <Loetmichel> oh MAN! i am lucky my wife is in GB at the moment... i (thoughtless) lit my cigarrette in the workshop (= part of the appartment) instad of gount on the balcony...
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[20:17:07] <Loetmichel> THAT would have got me in truible if she was here ;-)
[20:17:25] <skunkworks__> eztrol was a closed front end to linuxcnc.
[20:17:26] phantoxe is now known as phantoxeD
[20:17:34] <FinboySlick> Blackmail material.
[20:17:51] <Loetmichel> FinboySlick: dont think so
[20:18:22] <Loetmichel> 'cause: as long as nothing angers her nose on friday when she comes back everything is fine
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[20:18:43] <djdelorie> blow up a few capacitors and resistors to hide the smell? ;-)
[20:19:28] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: just open the balcony doors on both sides of the house
[20:19:34] <Loetmichel> the wind does the rest ;-)
[20:19:42] <tom3p> skunkworks ah, it looked like it was hooked to the Synergy cad system
[20:20:12] <skunkworks__> actually - I remember something about that... It could have been
[20:23:16] <tom3p> anyway i just wanted people to now, browsing the code body, even the configs, shows up a lotta cool stuff
[20:23:22] <tom3p> know
[20:23:57] <tom3p> and thx to the Smithy guys ( Ray & Jeff i spose are in there )
[20:25:41] <skunkworks__> neat
[20:28:51] <skunkworks__> also matt
[20:40:20] <FinboySlick> Anyone familiar with the Emco Compact 5 ?
[20:40:54] <FinboySlick> Wondering if it can be had in north america... Or if there's an equivalent.
[20:40:54] <tom3p> i meant matt (doh!)
[20:41:06] <cradek> I think they have ballscrews and are kind of cool
[20:41:15] <cradek> teeny tiny ballscrews
[20:41:28] <FinboySlick> They seem very nice.
[20:41:44] <FinboySlick> And just the right size for me.
[20:42:10] <tom3p> emco maier is from novi michigan
[20:43:11] <tom3p> make that 'also from'
[20:45:13] <andypugh> Not ballscrew, going ny the pictures: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emco-Compact-5-lathe-with-milling-accessory-extras-made-in-Austria-Free-Shipping-/251039723482
[20:46:03] <andypugh> But here is/was a Compact 5CNC: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco/page11.html
[20:47:30] <cradek> andypugh: that's not a cnc - I'm pretty darn sure the cnc one is ballscrew
[20:47:57] <andypugh> cradek: Second link?
[20:48:12] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:48:22] <cradek> first
[20:48:29] <Thetawaves> hip hip horray! i've got two job offers
[20:48:32] <cradek> the 5PC is cool
[20:48:44] <cradek> all you need is an XT to run it
[20:49:14] <andypugh> I am vaguely thinking of making an Emco style toolpost for my lathe.
[20:49:17] <cradek> weird - that's not an XT keyboard
[20:49:43] <andypugh> But then it would be a cheap, rubbish, Chinese lathe with even more time and money thrown at it.
[20:50:05] <andypugh> cradek: Your geekiness is showing
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[20:50:58] <cradek> :-P
[20:53:17] <andypugh> I feel under-intellectual. EBo is talking about "higher order osculants" and I am tallking in terms of "jerk the accel down if you are about to miss the endpoint"
[21:01:13] <cradek> if it helps, I have no idea what he's talking about either
[21:01:39] <andypugh> It does help, because you ahve actually written a trajectory planner.
[21:01:39] <cradek> on the other hand, he's talking while you're writing code
[21:02:14] <andypugh> talking of which, is t * t * t a sensible way to cube?
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[21:02:33] <cradek> yes many people have talked about writing planners, while my code has been making machines run for years
[21:02:44] <cradek> looks sensible enough to me
[21:02:57] <JT-Shop> :-)
[21:04:50] <cradek> yishin is the first one who's actually presented code for testing and seems interested in getting it working right
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[21:06:36] <andypugh> I need to get into the habit of typing "if (". I always have to go back and bracket the condition.
[21:07:30] <cradek> if, if(, and (if all show up in languages I use...
[21:07:51] <cradek> thankfully I can usually avoid if {
[21:08:07] <andypugh> if { would be?
[21:08:12] <cradek> tcl
[21:08:16] <andypugh> Eeew
[21:08:49] <andypugh> Hmm, what is actually required, in C, in if (cond=1) {z = pi ;}
[21:09:01] <andypugh> I think I can drop at least some of {;}
[21:09:11] <cradek> you can lose the {}
[21:09:22] <cradek> you might mean cond==1, but not necessarily
[21:10:28] <andypugh> Ah, yes, I do that a lot too. Luckily the compiler politely suggests that I might want to parenthesise the assignment used as a condition. (rather than saying "you idiot, this isn't BASIC"
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[21:20:55] <asdfasd> hi guys
[21:21:07] <andypugh> Hi
[21:21:57] <JT-Shop> I'm sure I could turned those two flat head bolts from 3/4" bar stock faster than it took me to make a die and hot forge them...
[21:22:40] <andypugh> JT-Shop: True, but the texture would have been wrong.
[21:22:57] <JT-Shop> yes the top of the head would not look cannon-like
[21:23:30] <JT-Shop> I did get some great experience in forging 101 today
[21:25:02] <andypugh> 101?
[21:25:34] <JT-Shop> hmm a primer class like school...
[21:25:53] <JT-Shop> but it was the school of hard knocks I went to
[21:27:21] <andypugh> Ah, I thought it was some sort of metal alloy grade.
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[21:31:40] <andypugh> Argh! Sombody on the internet is wrong! http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061104024241AA5YISI
[21:31:49] <andypugh> And it is 6 years too late to fix it.
[21:33:11] <JT-Shop> crap
[21:34:03] * JT-Shop goes to wander around at Caswell coatings for some plating material
[21:37:20] <andypugh> The "EN" in "EN8" is "Emergency Number" not "Euronorm". The confusion comes from the fact that all British Standards are now BS EN (which is a Euronormed British Standard). The EN-numbered steels are a set of standard alloys from WWII, which rather stuck, despite being abandoned in the 1980s. For example EN24 is now 817M40 and that would be SAE 4340 in the US.
[21:37:45] <JT-Shop> I see
[21:38:28] <andypugh> (I had to look up the US number on www.matweb.com )
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[21:39:25] <JT-Shop> dang brass plating kit doesn't come with a power supply http://www.caswellplating.com/electroplating-anodizing/brass-plating-kits/brp265.html
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[21:42:02] <andypugh> brass plating is evil and wrong. :-)
[21:42:16] <JT-Shop> why do you say that?
[21:42:20] <ds3> how does one plate brass? thought you cannot plate an alloy?
[21:42:39] <andypugh> Because it is purely a way to pretend that something is made from something it isn't.
[21:42:41] <JT-Shop> brass plate steel
[21:43:26] <JT-Shop> well sometimes it works out better to plate steel rather than paint it
[21:43:46] <andypugh> So use chrome or nickel, a functional plating.
[21:44:04] <andypugh> Or use solid brass.
[21:44:07] <JT-Shop> it wouldn't look right
[21:44:24] <JT-Shop> could not find solid brass acme nuts and screws
[21:44:40] <andypugh> You might have to make then, it's true.
[21:44:42] <JT-Shop> the rest could have been made from brass
[21:45:07] <andypugh> Though I think that the elevation screw would have been wrought iron.
[21:45:32] <djdelorie> brass? or bronze? which is better for high-wear surfaces?
[21:46:02] <andypugh> Bronze, generally.
[21:46:05] <JT-Shop> yes, I think the elevation screw was made from iron
[21:47:48] <JT-Shop> hmm bronze plating kits are 1/2 the cost of brass plating kits
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[21:48:39] <JT-Shop> anyhow I just want to put a tiny bit of bling on it :-)
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[21:57:49] <elmo401> bling sells better, too
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[22:08:07] <ThadiusB> Hey everyone. When I load a file to be cut into Linuxcnc, it shows the apparent dimensions, however they are way off from what the machine physically cuts. For instance, have a part thats 5inches, reads as such in linuxcnc but when i goto cut it goes way beyond that. I dont recall messing with anything, it only recently started happening.
[22:10:40] <cradek> sounds like your scale (steps per inch) is wrong
[22:11:02] <cradek> either you changed those settings or something about your hardware, perhaps microstep settings
[22:11:39] <andypugh> Could be a jumper or DIP switch on the drive.
[22:12:01] <andypugh> Or a visit from the metric leadscrew fairy.
[22:12:20] <cradek> how far is it off? if it's a factor of 25.4 then it's just a gcode problem
[22:12:27] <ThadiusB> way off
[22:12:31] <cradek> haha
[22:12:35] <cradek> can you be more specific?
[22:13:02] <ThadiusB> well I didnt measure exactly, but a five inch part roughly has my machine traveling in excess of double the distance
[22:13:07] <djdelorie> it is bigger/smaller "off", or "not where I told it to be" off ?
[22:13:24] <cradek> you should probably measure it
[22:13:27] <andypugh> Not exactly double the distance?
[22:13:38] <cradek> incremental jogs and a dial indicator are good for that
[22:14:46] <ThadiusB> i'll check the jumps on my drive, and double check in the ini, and of course get a measurement as well
[22:16:23] <ThadiusB> quick question before i head out to the shop, between driver settings for full 1/2 1/4 or whichever on Microstepping, does linuxcnc need to coincide, or set to zero?
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[22:17:32] <andypugh> No, you can just re-home. It doesn't matter what random units historical steps were in
[22:17:58] <ThadiusB> ty
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[22:49:08] <skunkworks__> http://eds.dyndns.org/~ircjunk/tutorials/elex/ata2isp/main.html
[22:49:52] * JT-Shop still can't figure out what Andy said...
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[22:59:10] <archivist> I like the last line "Well if you don't gloat whats the point!?"
[23:01:42] <JT-Shop> lol
[23:03:19] <archivist> but he has used the ide port in a way not intended
[23:05:07] <JT-Shop> archivist: I just had to dress up a tiny thread on a model steam engine and my needle files looked like giant files under the microscope... what do you use to file tiny things?
[23:05:39] <archivist> tiny files :)
[23:06:23] <skunkworks__> logger[psha]:
[23:06:33] <Tom_itx> can't believe rue's site made a post here :)
[23:06:52] <archivist> the normal needle files are a bit big, watch and clock making ones are available in smaller sizes
[23:07:01] <Tom_itx> that made it on hackaday btw
[23:07:14] <skunkworks__> I saw it on cnczone
[23:08:39] <archivist> JT-Shop, crap website but the files are good http://www.vallorbe.com/Standard.php?p=510&m=4&l=3
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[23:11:41] <JT-Shop> archivist: thanks
[23:11:55] <archivist> JT-Shop, I also got some second hand files from clock fairs etc
[23:12:21] <JT-Shop> not much of that going on in my neck of the woods :-)
[23:14:06] <archivist> one thing clockmakers do is be careful what the files are used for
[23:15:05] <JT-Shop> so not to damage them I assume
[23:15:25] <archivist> yup, getting a mirror finish with a pivot file is a bit of an art
[23:16:04] <archivist> really its part file and part burnisher
[23:16:51] <djdelorie> and part micro-hand-plane
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[23:17:40] <archivist> JT-Shop, the smaller files are the "escapement files"
[23:19:03] <andypugh> Designed for baking into pies?
[23:19:39] <archivist> so a watchmakers escapement file should be ok for sharpening a gnats cock
[23:20:33] <JT-Shop> ok, I see now
[23:21:07] <skunkworks__> they need to be sharpened?
[23:21:55] <archivist> a "gnats cock" is a british standard small measure
[23:22:52] <JT-Shop> ok, mine are for sharpening the beak of Alaskan mosquito's
[23:25:44] <andypugh> archivist: http://sciaroidea.info/sites/sciaroidea.info/files/imagecache/preview/images/Ectrepesthoneura_gracilis-HT-BMNHE254345-male_genitalia-dorsal-20x.jpg
[23:26:25] <archivist> home brew burnisher is a bit of hss that you rub on an oilstone to get the lines side ways on the metal
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[23:30:29] <djdelorie> in woodworking, a "burnisher" is something different - a mirror smooth bit of extremely hard steel you use to turn an edge on a scraper.
[23:30:44] <djdelorie> stupid words. Mean one thing already! :-P
[23:30:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/sch/jtg1969/m.html?item=160773149605&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&_trksid=p4340.l2562
[23:30:51] <r00t4rd3d> ^^ very good ebayer
[23:30:58] <r00t4rd3d> if you need bits
[23:31:51] <r00t4rd3d> I ordered two bits and he send them in a case :)
[23:34:52] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Be cautios about buying an aftermarket seat: http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/30/man-being-hard-on-bmw-for-20-month-erection/
[23:36:18] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think both tools are doing the same thing, being very hard and pushing metal about.
[23:36:37] <djdelorie> yup
[23:37:00] <andypugh> I think that agate burnishers are used in some other craft.
[23:37:09] <djdelorie> except that in woodworking, you never touch the burnisher with any kind of abrasive
[23:37:29] <djdelorie> the burnisher isn't the cutting tool itself, it's used to form the cutting tool
[23:37:32] <andypugh> Ah, yes, leatherwork.
[23:38:04] <djdelorie> one cheap source of WW burnishers are car engine valve stems
[23:38:25] <andypugh> Yes, but your woodworking burnisher doesmuch the same to the scraper as the watchmaking one does to the pivot.
[23:38:56] <JT-Shop> he just needs to go to McDonalds and spill some coffee on his problem...
[23:39:17] <djdelorie> andypugh: really? It sounded like a watchmaker's burnisher is a miniature file
[23:39:17] <archivist> pivot file in use http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1s-VVfda1ns
[23:39:21] <Tom_itx> then sue McDonalds for having hot coffee
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[23:40:24] <archivist> the file has a cutting end and a burnishing end
[23:41:04] <JT-Shop> the bow is cool
[23:41:22] <JT-Shop> didn't they use something similar on early lathes
[23:41:28] <Jymmm> It's McDonald's "Hot Coffee" all over again... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-57423319-10391704/nutella-health-claims-net-$3.05-million-settlement-in-class-action-lawsuit/?part=webmd-cbsnews
[23:42:03] <archivist> I hate doing it on a support like that as the support can act as a grinder screwing your new surface
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[23:42:47] <JT-Shop> from the chips?
[23:42:55] <djdelorie> WW burnishers are used to bend over a sharp edge: http://woodgears.ca/scraper/burnishing_angle.png
[23:43:06] <djdelorie> they don't cut or polish, they just push
[23:43:21] <Tecan> http://www.dalkescientific.com/writings/diary/archive/2007/06/01/lolpython.html
[23:44:35] <andypugh> djdelorie: I think that the clock pivot burnisher is mainly pushing metal about to make a smooth and hard surface.
[23:45:00] <archivist> JT-Shop, yes
[23:45:01] <djdelorie> that sounds plausible, unless there's polishing compound involved
[23:45:04] <andypugh> Smearing out the cut-marks from the file
[23:45:34] <djdelorie> it *sounded* abrasive in that video. WW burnishers are nearly silent
[23:46:15] <djdelorie> maybe "burnishing" is a class of operations, not a specific one. Stupid English! ;-)
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[23:49:00] <toast2> burnishing is a metal forming operation that causes the surface irregularities to flow into one another
[23:49:13] <toast2> andypugh is correct
[23:49:28] <toast2> i.e. the high points get crushed and fill in the nearby low areas
[23:49:42] <Tecan> is modbus ethernet based ?
[23:50:13] -!- archivist has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[23:50:49] <PCW> can be
[23:51:51] <PCW> can also be async serial
[23:52:34] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200751223390?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[23:52:44] <r00t4rd3d> i got 3 of them today in the mail, pretty sweet
[23:56:08] <Jymmm> SWPadnos_: I just found out that the industrial surplus place out here is no more.
[23:56:40] <Tom_itx> not boeing surplus?
[23:56:56] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Where's that located?
[23:56:58] <Tom_itx> i guess that's in seattle
[23:57:02] <Tom_itx> we had one here for a while
[23:57:12] <Jymmm> ah, no in San Jose
[23:57:25] <Jymmm> It was the LAST industrial surplus place around too.
[23:58:43] <r00t4rd3d> Tom_itx, you mess with mini itx boards alot?
[23:58:52] <Tom_itx> not alot
[23:58:56] <Tom_itx> i have one
[23:59:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.viaembedded.com/en/products/boards/productDetail.jsp?productLine=1&id=81&tabs=1
[23:59:04] <r00t4rd3d> i have that one
[23:59:13] <r00t4rd3d> I am wondering if its going to give me issues
[23:59:17] <Tom_itx> mine is pretty dated now
[23:59:23] <r00t4rd3d> so is mine
[23:59:26] <r00t4rd3d> via m10000
[23:59:43] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/itx/itx_thumb_index.php
[23:59:56] <Tom_itx> MII 10000