#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-17

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[00:09:48] <Jymmm> andypugh: You dot know, your STUUPID, remember?
[00:09:50] <Jymmm> dont
[00:09:53] <r00t4rd3d> hmm so I just realized my new 525mw has no ide ports :/
[00:10:30] <andypugh> It bothers me when it looks like a new guy gets hacked off and gives up.
[00:11:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: Well, when you get that kind of response, I'm glad he left
[00:12:04] <Jymmm> andypugh: If I want that kind of abuse, I'll do IT
[00:12:50] <Tom_itx> probably a kid
[00:14:31] <Jymmm> 20¢ for soapstone, that's too damn expensive!
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[00:17:58] <Jymmm> cpresser: Man, I really have to thank you for the soapstone idea. It's cheap, easy to get, and exactly the size i need =)
[00:19:38] <Jymmm> cpresser: now, I just have to see if it actually works =) lol
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[00:35:32] <SolarNRG> Beddy byes for snoozey pies!!!
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[02:10:01] <r00t4rd3d> this intel 525 is pretty quick for what it is
[02:11:19] <Tom_itx> i like mine
[02:11:41] <Tom_itx> wish i had a spare
[02:11:59] <r00t4rd3d> they are cheap
[02:12:10] <r00t4rd3d> buy another
[02:12:30] <jdhNC> I'm thinking about it.
[02:12:38] <r00t4rd3d> i got 4gig of memory for 15 bucks lol
[02:12:53] <jdhNC> need another amazon gift card
[02:12:56] <Tom_itx> ebay?
[02:12:56] <PCW> the d2700mud should be even a little faster
[02:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[02:13:10] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/360457553475?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
[02:13:16] <r00t4rd3d> he has more
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[02:15:04] <jdhNC> I was planning on mounting the atom board in my enclosure, but no good way to mount the disk
[02:15:14] <r00t4rd3d> what do i use the mini pcie x1 slot for?
[02:15:37] <jdhNC> wifi?
[02:15:43] <Tom_itx> maybe mesa will make a card for it soon
[02:15:44] <Tom_itx> :D
[02:16:02] <r00t4rd3d> is that all they make for mini pcie is wireless cards?
[02:16:24] <jdhNC> sata/ssd
[02:16:45] <Tom_itx> mount it to an aluminum angle
[02:17:07] <jdhNC> this 'huge' enclosure keeps getting smaller
[02:17:39] <Tom_itx> not sure if it was intended to go there but i put mine on it's side: http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/intel_atom/atom2.jpg
[02:20:39] <r00t4rd3d> what case is that ?
[02:21:39] <r00t4rd3d> APEX MI-008
[02:21:44] <r00t4rd3d> nvm
[02:23:03] <Tom_itx> cheap
[02:23:17] <alex4nder> http://www.mini-box.com/M350-universal-mini-itx-enclosure
[02:23:19] <alex4nder> that case is great
[02:23:49] <Tom_itx> will it hold a full size card?
[02:24:12] <Tom_itx> or just half size
[02:24:20] <r00t4rd3d> no size
[02:24:22] <alex4nder> height? with a riser, full size.
[02:24:32] <alex4nder> if your MB is thin enough
[02:24:46] <alex4nder> like a DN2800MT
[02:25:20] <Tom_itx> the heatsink is rather tall on the intel one
[02:25:23] <alex4nder> ah
[02:25:27] <alex4nder> my setup is this
[02:25:28] <alex4nder> http://www.mini-box.com/I-O-shield-and-riser-card-for-DN2800MT
[02:26:55] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[02:27:10] <jdhNC> that's what I have.
[02:27:35] <alex4nder> yah, you'd need a full height riser for that
[02:27:43] <alex4nder> to clear the ports, let alone the heatsink
[02:27:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091
[02:28:02] <Tom_itx> i think i paid 39 for my case
[02:28:07] <Tom_itx> on sale
[02:28:13] <alex4nder> nice
[02:28:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/200708342703?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
[02:28:17] <r00t4rd3d> 49
[02:29:16] <PCW> I think ths is a pretty much exact (updated) replacement http://www.logicsupply.com/products/d2700mud?gclid=CIKPiPuihrACFUkaQgodYBIDnQ of the d525
[02:29:35] <alex4nder> yup
[02:30:08] <alex4nder> lower power consumption, but shittier graphics
[02:30:24] <alex4nder> well, shittier support for the graphics hardware... the hardware is better
[02:30:39] <PCW> same graphics as 2800?
[02:30:42] <alex4nder> yup
[02:30:52] <alex4nder> "GMA 3650"
[02:31:37] <PCW> did you have any problem with the video?
[02:31:48] <PCW> problems
[02:31:56] <alex4nder> functionally no, but performance definitely could be better
[02:32:04] <alex4nder> I'm running full res, but with the vesa driver.
[02:32:11] <alex4nder> software opengl, etc.
[02:32:13] <PCW> ahh
[02:32:33] <PCW> may get sorted out in time
[02:32:37] <alex4nder> other than that, the dn2800mt is a fantastic board
[02:32:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lian-Li-PC-Q11B-Black-Aluminum-Mini-ITX-Tower-Case-/110788591945?pt=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item19cb83c149
[02:32:59] <r00t4rd3d> probably one of the best mini itx cases ive seen
[02:33:02] <alex4nder> PCW: I put an mSATA SSD, and intel wifi card in it, and the whole thing is just as thin as it is stock.
[02:33:13] <alex4nder> so no space used on an internal drive
[02:33:24] <alex4nder> and room for a full-height PCIe card
[02:33:29] <PCW> i like that it has a intel MAC
[02:33:36] <alex4nder> yah, that's a plus
[02:35:27] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lian-Li-PC-Q25B-Black-Aluminum-Mini-Tower-Mini-ITX-Computer-Case-/270954636730?pt=US_Computer_Cases&hash=item3f1627a5ba
[02:36:21] <PCW> so with that riser you can add a second parallel port or a 6I25 :-)
[02:38:18] <alex4nder> PCW: exactly
[02:38:34] <alex4nder> so now we just need better video drivers. :/
[02:41:23] <PCW> Intel must make some info avaliable since the previous chipset is supported
[02:42:17] <alex4nder> the new chipset is PowerVR-based, so Imagination Technologies owns the IP. :/
[02:42:22] <alex4nder> apparently someone is a dumbass at intel
[02:42:46] <r00t4rd3d> im gonna put a pci video card in mine
[02:42:58] <PCW> I always think Power Rangers when I see that
[02:43:03] <alex4nder> haha
[02:43:13] <PCW> bbl ttgh
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[02:45:03] <r00t4rd3d> time to get high?
[02:45:39] <r00t4rd3d> when isnt it time?
[02:45:45] <alex4nder> while operating heavy machinery
[02:46:37] <r00t4rd3d> construction workers are some of the biggest druggies on the planet
[02:46:49] <alex4nder> yah, not a good thing
[02:47:42] <r00t4rd3d> i could build you a million dollar mansion baked out of my head and it would be perfect.
[02:47:52] <alex4nder> alright
[02:48:01] <r00t4rd3d> i need the million up front
[02:49:14] <alex4nder> no can do, druggie. you might run off with my money
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[02:52:10] <r00t4rd3d> i like pot not prison
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[03:15:38] <niteghost> hi
[03:15:46] <jackc> hi
[03:16:44] <niteghost> i have a question on pc hardware for a new setup
[03:18:01] <niteghost> can anyone help me to choose a good agp card that workes with rtai ?
[03:29:40] <ReadError> http://p.twimg.com/AtERspSCQAAx2r4.jpg:large
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[03:53:10] <Connor> ReadError: What's that for ?
[04:01:51] <Jymmm> motor mounts is what they look like to me
[04:02:03] <Jymmm> NEMA23 ?
[04:02:10] <Connor> Yea.. I was wondering if it's for his conversion... or what..
[04:02:12] <Jymmm> no, NEMA 17
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[04:14:44] <niteghost> can anyone help me to choose pc hardware that workes with rtai ?
[04:16:02] <pcw_home> the Intel Atom based motherboards are popular
[04:16:40] <niteghost> i have some old stuff with agp
[04:16:57] <niteghost> for a first try
[04:17:35] <niteghost> e.g. amd xp2500 with 1 gram
[04:17:47] <Jymmm> For $80 you can get the whole thing that is known to work http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
[04:17:57] <Jymmm> less ram/drives
[04:18:17] <Jymmm> or spend $40 - $80 for an anicent video card
[04:18:33] <pcw_home> Well download the LiveCD and run the latency test that will tell you
[04:19:13] <Jymmm> PCW: he has no video card it seems and wants suggestions for an AGP video card that works with linuxcnc
[04:19:53] <niteghost> i have a x1950 but needs fglrx to be good
[04:20:20] <pcw_home> linux CNC doesnt ask much of the video
[04:20:42] <pcw_home> (ok with decent PCI video cards)
[04:21:01] <niteghost> but i is said that timing depends on it
[04:21:18] <niteghost> - i +it
[04:21:52] <niteghost> is it better to use scsi than ide ?
[04:22:16] <r00t4rd3d> faster
[04:23:50] <niteghost> then i first use my old firegl 1 card and see wat happens
[04:25:45] <pcw_home> with latency, o much depends on the specific hardware and driver that you really have to try it and see
[04:25:54] <pcw_home> so much
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[04:26:34] <niteghost> ok thanks
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[05:38:35] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:09:38] <alex4nder> hey
[06:10:06] <alex4nder> anyone have an opinion on plunge milling vs. trochoidal milling for MRR on a small machine like a taig?
[06:11:29] * Loetmichel geht mal in die Küche, stellt die Tasse unter die Saeco. *Knöbbscher drügg* *RUUUIIIIIIIII* *KlackKlack* *KlackKlack* *Miiiieeerrrrk* *Brrrrrrr* *Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr* *Miiiiiiiifubb* ... Karamelsirup rein, Milch hinterher... *nipp* "aahh, guuuuut!"
[06:11:51] <alex4nder> ...
[06:11:52] <alex4nder> ok
[06:11:55] <Loetmichel> oh, sorry, german... should state: $me is going t make himself a coffee ;-)
[06:12:34] <Loetmichel> <- is just making gcode for 2 dozen acrylic glass plates
[06:12:47] <Loetmichel> for trophys...
[06:13:13] <alex4nder> nice
[06:13:17] <Loetmichel> after making 8 trophys yesterday 'til 02:00 i wanted to have some sleep...
[06:13:29] <Loetmichel> its now 08:12 over here
[06:13:42] <alex4nder> now that my coolant is setup to remove chips, I want to figure out the best ways to use it to help remove material
[06:13:48] <alex4nder> I think I need to run some tests tomorrow.
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[07:09:25] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[14:57:18] <joe9> wondering if anyone would recommend any tutorials/links to use heekscad/heekscnc..
[14:57:29] <joe9> i checked their wiki but could not find much info there
[14:57:51] <jdhNC> I got it to draw a rectangle once. i can talk you through that.
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[14:59:29] <ktchk> joe9: try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBXlJj45rE
[15:03:17] <ktchk> joe9:HeeksCAD Unofficial Tutorial Part 1, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idV54AqNbPo
[15:03:24] <joe9> ktchk thanks.
[15:03:37] <joe9> keep them coming, if you know of more too.
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[15:04:47] <ktchk> joe9: search under the name HeeksCAD Unofficial Tutorial will get most of the tutors
[15:06:54] <ktchk> joe9: for heekscnc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2O9O59t6cc
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[15:19:03] <ReadError> joe9: http://p.twimg.com/AtERspSCQAAx2r4.jpg:large
[15:19:06] <ReadError> cut them last night
[15:19:19] <Connor> ReadError: Yea, what are those for?
[15:19:27] <ReadError> motor mounts for a quad copter
[15:19:42] <frallzor> seems hefty
[15:20:47] <ReadError> well each motor generates about 68oz of thrust
[15:21:06] <ReadError> its cut on 0.090"
[15:21:15] <frallzor> whats that in metric? =P
[15:21:26] <frallzor> 3mm or something?
[15:21:27] <ReadError> https://p.twimg.com/Asp_uB2CIAIolD2.jpg:large
[15:21:42] <ReadError> thats how it looks on the pvc i cut it on w/ the motor
[15:22:01] <frallzor> doesnt look quite as hefty now =)
[15:22:17] <ReadError> yea they are fairly large motors
[15:23:40] <jthornton> frallzor, are you using the express version of HSN?
[15:32:23] <JT-Shop-2> anyhow when you pop back in I learned a few things about it and how to modify the post processor
[15:32:32] * JT-Shop-2 heads for town for a while
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[15:43:16] * Jymmm informs JT-Shop's town sherriff
[15:43:24] <frallzor> JT-Shop-2 got a "proper" license for HSM non-express, but its not mine, just borrowing to try
[15:43:42] * Tom_itx suggests JT-Shop take the back roads to town
[15:44:14] <frallzor> even got the dongle =P, but I have to return it, but I assume its the same way to modify PPs
[15:45:44] <frallzor> so just shout when back, im cooking atm
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[16:03:52] <joe9> in the Heekscnc Properties Tab, what is the difference between "EMC2 Controller", "EMC2 simplified"? I presume that "EMC2 with cutter compi" is the gcode with G42 oslt.
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[16:04:53] <cncjerry> hello again
[16:06:22] <cncjerry> can anybody tell me, before I did deep, if it is possible to run another python program in parallel with Axis that would control the machine? Not unlike emcrsh but instead of telnet'ing to emcrsh, basically just running hal commands directly from a shell.
[16:07:19] <micges> what for?
[16:07:26] <cncjerry> I started this upgrade to my emc system to add a custom control system that communicates up thru USB.
[16:07:59] <cncjerry> I would like to keep it separate from Axis and not use the Hal user module.
[16:08:16] <cncjerry> I want to be able to debug it in realtime
[16:12:34] <cncjerry> basically, I picked-up one of the arduino boards, added some joysticks, switches and rotary encoders and want to build a pendant type interface
[16:12:43] <jdhNC> can't you just do "halcmd <whatever>"?
[16:13:01] <cncjerry> that's what I don't know but will look at it.
[16:13:10] <jdhNC> http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man1/halrun.1.html
[16:14:19] <cncjerry> do you know if that needs to run as a module as in loadusr from hal.whatever
[16:15:12] <jdhNC> loadusr is a hal cmd
[16:16:07] <jdhNC> connor: are you around?
[16:17:49] <archivist> cncjerry, look on the wiki for pendents that others have made
[16:18:33] <jdhNC> aren't there other pendent->arduino->usb/serial->hal things out there?
[16:19:02] <cncjerry> yes, I've seen them but they run as a postgui or some other type of linkage
[16:19:41] <Connor> jdhNC: What's up?
[16:19:55] <cncjerry> so basically, I would like to have axis up on the left side of the screen and then my interface thru python/tk on right but totally separate.
[16:22:13] <cncjerry> I was thinking about just patching axis to add serial usb functionality but I can't see how pyserial would be event driven like I need it.
[16:22:32] <jdhNC> Connor: trying to lay out my panel once again. Got drives, drive PS, 12v, 5v, mesa cards, c41, terminal strips. Anything I'm forgetting to put in?
[16:22:58] <cncjerry> I was just in the wiki and see how the pyvcp panels work.
[16:23:02] <Connor> charge pump ?
[16:23:18] <jdhNC> don't have one, but I'll add space
[16:24:01] <Connor> I left room for 6 drivers, BOB, charge pump. C4 is in control box...
[16:24:09] <Connor> maybe a relay board or something
[16:24:24] <Connor> but, that sounds about like everything.
[16:24:24] <jdhNC> Did you hook up the disable terminals on the spindle speed controller? Does that interfere with running spindle speed manually?
[16:24:51] <Jymmm> safety relay
[16:24:58] <Connor> jdhNC: Yes, I hooked those up.. and yes.. you have to turn the spindle ON in EMC to run the spindle with manually speed control.
[16:25:30] <Connor> but, I'm okay with that.. no reason to run the spindle without having EMC up anyway..
[16:25:45] <Connor> well.. except I'm using the speed controller for my lathe right now too.. :)
[16:25:54] <jdhNC> another switch in series would fix that, but it woudl be another switch.
[16:26:10] <Connor> yea.
[16:26:10] <cncjerry> one other quick question: is it possible in Axis to start from a specific line in a loaded program
[16:26:46] <jdhNC> you have the C41 hooked up to the lathe? why?
[16:27:10] <Connor> No. the mill speed controller.. cause the one in the lathe shorted out..
[16:27:55] <jdhNC> gotcha. I bought two treadmill speed controllers, but looks like the seller is flaking out
[16:28:08] <Connor> Ugg.
[16:28:11] <Connor> I hate that.
[16:28:56] <Connor> You would think there is a better way than using the speed control that comes with it + c41 to drive that motor.. Like a true PWM based H-bridge driver...
[16:29:28] <jdhNC> There probably is, but not for the price.
[16:30:04] <cncjerry> wrt treadmill speed controllers - i have a friend that has a treadmill where the tread is breaking. he keeps asking me how to fix it. I'm hoping duct tape doesn't work.
[16:30:20] <cncjerry> he offered me a motor and controller from a golf cart.
[16:30:37] <cncjerry> I wonder how many HP a golf cart is.
[16:30:52] <Connor> a Servo controller would probably work....
[16:30:54] <jdhNC> connor: the relay in the link should handle switching the motor forward/reverse.
[16:31:01] <Connor> but it would need to be good up to around 120v
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[17:01:45] <joe9> is this better than heekscad/heekscnc? http://cnc-club.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35#p65
[17:02:06] <joe9> anyone used it?
[17:03:43] <ReadError> joe9: ive had good luck with solidworks and visualmill so far
[17:03:53] <ReadError> solidworks is pretty intuitive
[17:04:05] <jdhNC> and cheap!
[17:04:14] <ReadError> yea....cheap
[17:04:15] <alex4nder> yes
[17:04:15] <ReadError> heh
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[17:10:49] <jdhNC> where do people put pullups for limit switches/etc?
[17:11:23] <Connor> typically as close to the break out board I belive.
[17:12:16] <archivist> where convenient
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[17:15:12] <pcw_home> IMHO limit switches should be NC and drive a pull down that is V+ --> switch --> pulldown sense. That way a short to ground is a fault
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[17:16:12] <pcw_home> and a open wire is a fault as well
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[17:22:31] <jdhNC> I was going to do pullup to pin, then NC switch to ground
[17:22:56] <jdhNC> doesn't that have the same effect for open wire or short to ground?
[17:23:31] <pcw_home> No a short to ground looks OK with that arrangement
[17:23:40] <jdhNC> oh, gotcha
[17:25:09] <jdhNC> do you need a current limiting resistor for the V+ to the switch?
[17:25:26] <pcw_home> sometimes it not convenient but over all I think its the most reliable
[17:25:28] <pcw_home> (fancier systems use a modulated signal so a short to ground or +V will be a fault)
[17:26:38] <pcw_home> I guess it you worry about damaging the switch with an accidental short
[17:26:40] <pcw_home> (you could also use a small fuse/PTC for all limit switch power)
[17:27:19] <jdhNC> I was worried about damaging the 7i47 with the 5V
[17:28:13] <pcw_home> 7I47 has differential inputs (but they will take 5V)
[17:29:07] <jdhNC> is there an idiots guide to wiring 7i47?
[17:29:29] <pcw_home> only limitation is power dissipation in the termination resistors (if termination is off inputs will withstand +-25V)
[17:30:31] <pcw_home> Only the manual, but a 7I47 is not the best for limit switches (single ended can be done but its a bit awkward)
[17:31:30] <jdhNC> the manual only says what the pins are, not why.
[17:32:37] <pcw_home> to use the 7I47 inputs single ended you need to disable termination and tie one of the differential inputs to a 1/2 way up reference (2x 100 Ohm resistor will do)
[17:33:01] <jdhNC> for step pulses, does it make any difference if you use (+) and gnd vs. (+) and (-)?
[17:35:21] <pcw_home> if you have a drive that does not common the OPTO LED anodes or cathodes it better to drive them with + and - (the reason is better noise immunity in the LED off state)
[17:36:29] <pcw_home> if you have a Gecko or other drive that commons the OPTO pins you have no choice but to drive them single ended
[17:37:09] <pcw_home> (single ended meaning signal & gnd or signal & VCC)
[17:37:43] <jdhNC> I haven't checked mine (keling labeled chinese drivers)
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[17:39:16] <jdhNC> how would do a switch with differential?
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[17:46:14] <Connor> pcw_home: Trying to understand what your were saying.. You have a schematic with the setup ?
[17:49:09] <pcw_home> which setup?
[17:49:23] <Connor> pcw_home: IMHO limit switches should be NC and drive a pull down that is V+ --> switch --> pulldown sense. That way a short to ground is a fault
[17:53:57] <pcw_home> OK for example a 24V system you would have +24V --> normally closed limit switch --> input that senses +24. So in normal operation the sense input is always driven to 24V. In a on-limit situation or the most common wiring faults (short to ground or open wire) the send input will not be driven so you get a on-limit indication (a detectable fault)
[17:54:12] <JT-Shop-2> frallzor: you about?
[17:54:27] <pcw_home> s/send/sense/
[17:56:20] <Connor> okay.. I think I understand.. most diagrams for limits just use a pull up resistor, and use NC with GND.
[17:56:44] <jdhNC> because that is simple and I cand understand it.
[17:56:46] <Connor> your talking about doing the inverse,
[17:57:16] <Connor> which is pull down with +v on the circuit.. with NC switches..
[17:57:40] <pcw_home> Yes
[17:58:13] <djdelorie> my alarm switch uses a resistor across a NO switch, with a second resistor in the alarm box, to detect both shorts and opens
[17:58:41] <djdelorie> (not the cnc machine, the house alarm system)
[17:59:20] <djdelorie> but you have to be able to sense VCC/2 vs VCC or GND to use it
[17:59:38] <pcw_home> and some safety loops use modulated signals
[18:00:11] <djdelorie> a modulated signal wouldn't detect a short
[18:00:24] <pcw_home> lack of signal
[18:00:47] <Connor> modulated would detect short to + short to gnd or open
[18:01:01] <pcw_home> right
[18:01:09] <andypugh> 4-20mA anyone?
[18:01:28] <Connor> which is why they're used for charge pumps.. I.E. watchdog signal.
[18:01:41] <archivist> 4-20ma...they still use that ? :)
[18:01:42] <djdelorie> if you're only running two wires to the switch, the switch is either NO or NC. If NC, a short disables the switch.
[18:01:53] <Jymmm> A SPDT NO/NC switch would detect opens and shorts
[18:02:07] <djdelorie> to test the wiring all the way to the switch, you need something at the switch which modifies the signal in a detectable way
[18:02:26] <djdelorie> Jymmm: mine uses SPDT, I run VCC *and* GND to the switch. A short would likely kill the whole controller :-)
[18:02:56] <djdelorie> I set it up that way in case I wanted to put optos there, they need power
[18:03:05] <Jymmm> most panles has a resistor inline to prevent a "dead short"
[18:03:40] <djdelorie> a 30mA current regulator would probably work too
[18:03:48] <djdelorie> or a PTC fuse
[18:04:07] <djdelorie> I wasn't trying to be paranoid with these controllers, just trying to get the motors to work ;-)
[18:05:00] <djdelorie> Connor: charge pump signals work because there's something on both ends of the wire. For a limit switch, you're powering *and* sensing on just one end
[18:07:47] <pcw_home> The point i was making is V+ --> NC switch +sense is safer for common faults than a switch to ground (as common wiring faults will cause a control fault)
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[18:10:03] <djdelorie> an NO switch to gnd means any such shorts stop the machine, and don't involve shorting V+ to gnd during a failure
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[18:10:43] <pcw_home> a wiring short to ground will make every thing look OK in that system
[18:10:55] <djdelorie> NO switch. Short to gnd == limit hit
[18:11:14] <pcw_home> ok an open will be hunky dory
[18:11:26] <pcw_home> =not good
[18:11:27] <djdelorie> I suspect cut wires is more common than short to chassis in real-world failures, though
[18:11:57] <djdelorie> a paranoid setup needs to detect all cases of short-to-chassis, short-wires-together, and cut-wires
[18:12:28] <pcw_home> well NO fails for even non-paranoids (open is good)
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[18:12:55] <djdelorie> hmmm... capacitor across an NO switch, used as part of an RC oscillator with osc-stop detection...
[18:13:21] <Connor> Lets get practical for home and hobby use.. NC with GND and pullup, or NC with +5v with pulldown are both perfectly acceptable solutions.. most solutions I see are NC with GND and a pullup.
[18:13:52] <djdelorie> I set mine up as NO or SPDT just so that I'm not constantly driving current through that resistor
[18:14:15] <archivist> a series R and a switched R at the other end measure the current levels x ok y limit none open wire, too high shorted
[18:14:20] <djdelorie> but the controller doesn't care how you set it up. It gives you V+, gnd, and return, and the software lets you pick if high or low means "hit"
[18:15:04] <djdelorie> archivist: that's basically what my alarm system does. two resistors, one in the box, one across the switch, acting as a voltage divider
[18:15:11] <Connor> but the main reason for using a NC type setup is to have a fault in case the switch fails or the cables get cut.. the most common things to happen to a E-Stop or Limit switch cable..
[18:15:26] <djdelorie> yeah, I'm guessing cut is more common than short
[18:15:38] <Connor> cut, or being pulled loose.
[18:16:04] <Connor> besides, if my control shorts +5v to gnd, the BOB is going to short out
[18:16:09] <djdelorie> optos work that way, they drive a transistor to gnd when not obscured
[18:16:43] <pcw_home> But since they are equivalent parts wise +sense is a better choice if starting from scratch
[18:17:18] <pcw_home> since it catches the next most likely wiring fault
[18:17:26] <djdelorie> hmmm... series and parallel resistors at the switch, a third at the board, should be able to detect shorts and cuts, separately from normal switch operation
[18:17:48] <pcw_home> bad for noise immunity
[18:18:02] <djdelorie> so, pull-up to V+, a cut drops to gnd, short to chassis drops to gnd...
[18:18:21] <djdelorie> yeah, you'd need software to tell the difference between noise and operation. Or a filter
[18:19:10] <djdelorie> heh. power and gnd to the switch, the *switch* has an oscillator, which it sends back unless open. Reverse charge pump
[18:19:48] <Connor> okay, you're making my head hurt..
[18:19:51] <archivist> TDR, then you know where the short/open is :)
[18:20:11] <jdhNC> one TDR for each switch
[18:20:18] <djdelorie> then you'd need more wire beyond the switch so you could measure when it's closed
[18:20:20] <jdhNC> kindof bulky.
[18:21:03] <archivist> djdelorie, resistor value of cable impedance
[18:22:29] <archivist> one could switch in an inductor/capacitor to see direction of pulse in the replay to detect switch state
[18:24:22] <djdelorie> pic10 mcu at the switch, 555 missing-pulse detector at the board...
[18:24:37] <djdelorie> or a second pic, or two 555's depending on space/cost factors
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[18:30:18] <cncjerry> if I had a few lines of code patches to Axis, would someone be able to write a patch for me? two patches in two places. no big deal
[18:30:53] <JT-Shop-2> you can do that with .axisrc
[18:31:09] <cncjerry> what is .axisrc?
[18:31:39] <JT-Shop-2> have the user manual handy? it is in the Axis section last thing I think
[18:32:11] <cncjerry> thx
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[18:32:23] <IchGuckLive> cncjerry: patches on what 2.5 2.6.pre git head ?
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[18:33:26] <IchGuckLive> cncjerry: patches on what 2.5 2.6.pre git head ?
[18:35:11] <cncjerry> what ever version is in the latest livecd. basically just adds ctrl+key to jog in .001 increments. adds a jog_oni function and some key defines
[18:35:52] <cncjerry> in use, you jog or shift+jog to where you want then ctrl+jog key to step over for like when you use an edge finder'
[18:36:33] <Connor> any benefit by putting a encoder on the rear shaft on steppers?
[18:36:55] <IchGuckLive> Connor only fault detection
[18:36:55] <cncjerry> talked about that yesterday. don't see it
[18:37:01] <cncjerry> yes, fault only
[18:37:26] <cncjerry> once you lose a step it is all over unless you wanted to have an error bandwidth
[18:37:26] <IchGuckLive> cncjerry: did you mail it to the devels list ?
[18:37:27] <Connor> I.E. Missed Step
[18:37:48] <cncjerry> devels list? nope, don't know about it. still trying to get the doc on my mac
[18:38:29] <IchGuckLive> we have also a linuxcnc-devels channel
[18:38:31] <cncjerry> we all talked about the functions 4 yrs ago. for some reason, can't remember why the ctrl+jog key was shot down but they implemented the shift+jog for high speed
[18:38:33] <Connor> I see allot of talk about double ball nuts and backlash.. and I'm of the idea that, if you 100% predictable backlash.. what's the big deal ...
[18:38:53] <cncjerry> software backlash doesn't work under load
[18:39:09] <IchGuckLive> cncjerry: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-developers
[18:39:10] <archivist> no such thing as predictable backlash
[18:39:14] <cncjerry> double ball nuts is the only way to go assuming you have the lash out of the rest of the system
[18:39:43] <cncjerry> chk the thrust washers, most of the time you can take .001-.002 out of there first easily
[18:40:31] <cncjerry> and if you are using steppers, I think you have a limit to the backlash having something to do with quad encoding and bit direction though I have never analyzed it
[18:40:42] <archivist> backlash also screws servo feedback because the mechanical load drops during the gap
[18:41:09] <roycroft> semi-predictable backlash isn't a huge deal if you're only moving along one axis at a time
[18:41:09] <Connor> what about using a DRO or Scales ?
[18:41:10] <cncjerry> yes, that is the problem with software since under load with climb milling at a reverse the table is loose
[18:41:21] <roycroft> but if you're moving along multiple axes simultaneously it's nothing more than utter chaos
[18:41:33] <cncjerry> once your motor is out of step as cradek said yesterday you are screwed
[18:41:40] <cncjerry> you are off the path
[18:41:46] <IchGuckLive> normal linuxcnc users dont have to care for backlash
[18:41:58] <cncjerry> unless you are only moving one axis at a time, of course
[18:42:04] * roycroft intends to use zero-backlash ball screws on his mill
[18:42:10] <IchGuckLive> thinks that are be dione are in the leadscrew nut dimentions
[18:42:39] <cncjerry> you can use oversized balls in the ballscrew to get down to .002" for a lot less
[18:43:01] <cncjerry> repack the nut yourself. see Hoss machine. if he can do it with his big fingers anyone can
[18:43:09] <roycroft> it costs a lot to do a cnc retrofit
[18:43:09] <IchGuckLive> standard ballsrews are 50% cheeper then zero ones and do in 99.5% of the job
[18:43:18] <roycroft> why not spend just a little more to get zero backlash?
[18:43:22] <cncjerry> the problem with two nuts is it will take away from travel
[18:43:44] <cncjerry> so if you can give up 1.5" of travel on the Y go for it
[18:43:44] <jdhNC> anyone ever used a Festo PLC?
[18:43:55] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: onmy late the little more wars 1200USD
[18:43:57] <roycroft> assuming the nuts are the limiting factors
[18:44:05] <cncjerry> acme screws, believe it or not, can be dialed to have less backlash
[18:44:06] <ReadError_> i was under the impression there would always be some backlash?
[18:44:15] <Connor> cncjerry: Probably not a issue with the X, With the Y it would be.. less travel that is.
[18:44:19] <cncjerry> 99% of the time the nuts are the problem on the Y
[18:44:20] <roycroft> yes, i've elminated most of the backlash on my acme screws
[18:44:28] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: im living on side of festo production
[18:44:35] <roycroft> there does not have to be, readerror_
[18:45:08] <cncjerry> ballscrews have many advantages with the exception of backlash, contrary to public opinion
[18:45:10] <roycroft> ball screws with two nuts having spring washers in between them can eliminate backlash if installed and adjusted properly
[18:45:11] <jdhNC> IchGuckLive: if you have two rungs setting the same output (actually one setting, on resetting) which one wins?
[18:45:29] <cncjerry> spring nuts? climb milling?
[18:46:13] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: you need a and
[18:46:19] <cncjerry> I have an r55 in my basement that has 1100oz servos. that will compress most springs
[18:46:31] <roycroft> i should think so
[18:46:32] <cncjerry> r45
[18:46:37] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: http://www.scribd.com/doc/6901240/FESTO-Basic-PLC
[18:46:50] <frallzor> JT-Shop-2 yoyo
[18:47:00] <cncjerry> my mill has broken .625 cutters without slowing down.
[18:47:07] <jdhNC> IchGuckLive: perhaps, but it should be deterministic. In my experience with other PLCs, the last rung 'wins'
[18:47:41] <cncjerry> try the oversized balls. if you are making more than one part, you can program around predictable backlash
[18:48:28] <cncjerry> also, from my experience, backlash isn't that much of an issue unless you are running in exact stop or have the CV path variance set to something less than the backlash.
[18:48:35] <jdhNC> IchGuckLive: I am seeing inconsistent behavior on the Festo. It also acts differently when you d/l the program and run it vs. power cycling. Almost like powercycling is not running the same program.
[18:49:38] <roycroft> you think single nuts with oversize balls are the better option?
[18:49:47] <roycroft> that would certainly save some money
[18:49:56] <jdhNC> I think double nuts with oversize balls woudl be better.
[18:49:57] <alex4nder> roycroft: if I had a nickle for every time someone asked me that..
[18:49:57] <JT-Shop-2> frallzor: hi I'
[18:49:58] <cncjerry> yes depending on how large the machine.
[18:49:59] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: witch module are you using
[18:50:01] <JT-Shop-2> m here
[18:50:05] <roycroft> ball screws aren't that expensive, but the nuts are pretty pricey
[18:50:14] <jdhNC> Ich: no clue, some built in thing on a big manifold
[18:50:16] * roycroft gives alex4nder a nickel
[18:50:29] <frallzor> I have found the PPs myself and can edit them, but I havent got a clue on PP-editing =P
[18:50:30] <JT-Shop-2> frallzor: did you ever get HSNXpress to work?
[18:50:34] <roycroft> i'm just doing an x3
[18:50:37] <roycroft> tiny mill
[18:50:46] <cncjerry> on a machine that has lots of travel then preloaded, on hobby machines oversized balls
[18:50:54] <JT-Shop-2> did you try the RS274 PP?
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[18:50:59] <cncjerry> X3 is acme if you ask me
[18:50:59] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: there is standard on powercycle a home return for the mashine to start off
[18:51:09] <frallzor> I have tried express before, atm im using non-express with a borrowed dongle, for trial purposes =)
[18:51:17] <cncjerry> unless you are trying to take the load of light motors
[18:51:21] <frallzor> RS274 PP nope, whats that?
[18:51:37] <JT-Shop-2> it was one of the ones that came with the Xpress version
[18:51:37] <cncjerry> also, I think the gibs will twist as well
[18:51:38] <jdhNC> Ich: no idea what you mean?
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[18:51:50] <JT-Shop-2> wanna switch to another channel?
[18:51:58] <frallzor> sure
[18:52:05] <frallzor> or just pm me
[18:52:20] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: there are 2 programms in the plc one that is running and one that is for poweron mashine return
[18:52:21] <roycroft> sticking with acme would save even more money
[18:52:43] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: that is what you are seeing
[18:52:49] <roycroft> but i was under the impression that the acme screws that come with them aren't all that accurate
[18:52:51] <jdhNC> Ich: oh, how do you specify which one?
[18:52:54] <Connor> I'm using ACME on my G0704.. I want to do Ballscrews at some point.
[18:53:00] <roycroft> do you suggest replacing with higher quality acme screws?
[18:53:10] <roycroft> or living with what's there?
[18:53:33] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: at download you can specify where to go in the plc
[18:53:56] <jdhNC> is that the 'save to eprom' or somethign option?
[18:53:57] <cncjerry> I would live with the screws until they wear out.
[18:54:22] <IchGuckLive> depending on the system yes
[18:54:34] <cncjerry> I have run hundreds of hours on my screws. with good lube they have lasted 5 yrs.
[18:54:43] <cncjerry> hundreds?
[18:54:55] <cncjerry> that is 100's
[18:55:00] <cncjerry> not hound
[18:55:04] <jdhNC> Ich: thanks, I'll check the manual. (not my system, someone is just having problems with a change they made)
[18:55:57] <cncjerry> you can get acme screws from ENCO I think, just about any size. I have them on my little sherline lathe and mill. I use delrin bearings on them
[18:56:12] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: if the mashine has no power on reset you need to clear this option
[18:56:31] <cncjerry> the delrin is compressed with a bolt the screw passes thru opposed to a single point.
[18:56:43] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: Power: ON PLC: RUN
[18:56:51] <cncjerry> both the little lathe and mill have zero backlash.
[18:57:02] <cncjerry> I use the mill for engraving mostly
[18:57:16] <cncjerry> the motors stall before the delrin becomes an issue.
[18:57:44] <jdhNC> Ich: it runs on power up, it just behaves differently than before cycling power.
[18:57:51] <cncjerry> an X3 is larger and I would stick with the stock screws. I don't know if emc has screw mapping but mach3 does. that fixes the accuracy
[18:58:31] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: also Power: ON, PLC: STOP
[18:58:46] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: this resets the main programm
[18:59:03] <cncjerry> the other problem with ballscrews on the Z is the head will drop if the motor fails
[18:59:27] <cncjerry> again, go to hoss and look at his g0704 mods. he walks thru all the issues.
[19:00:20] <roycroft> excellent
[19:00:21] <cncjerry> also, if you go ballscrews, that guy that sells the c5 and c7 screws he calls zero backlash is full of it.
[19:00:25] <roycroft> i'm on vacation for the rest of the day
[19:00:50] <roycroft> i get to "vacate" by renting a compactor and mashing down a gravel pathway
[19:01:12] <jdhNC> Ich: what do you mean resets teh main program?
[19:01:24] <cncjerry> on ebay. You can get a three piece machined set of c5 screws for cheap < 250 with mounts, etc. but they aren't zero since they have no preload at all
[19:01:24] <roycroft> it's the new path between my garage shop and my welding shop, so it will be good to get it done
[19:02:05] <cncjerry> compacting, never tried it, sounds like labor.
[19:02:18] <cncjerry> where are you roycroft?
[19:02:33] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: the standart plc has P0-P63 there are followed by order and if power Down acours it is marked in witch programmline it stopd
[19:03:19] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: then on power on depending on the settings the mashine makes its initial and starts from this point or from the standart P0
[19:04:14] <jdhNC> weird! I'll check the manual again.
[19:04:20] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: see FEC flowchart on powerup
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[19:05:16] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: on big mashines with many I/O its better to start from the action point then reset the system as there are parts in
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[19:06:38] <roycroft> i'm in eugene oregon
[19:07:05] <cncjerry> figured you were on the same coast. I am in sausalito, ca
[19:07:11] <roycroft> and it is a lot of work
[19:07:17] ReadError_ is now known as ReadError
[19:07:36] <cncjerry> I am pretty sure I am the only home shop machinist in marin county
[19:09:55] <cncjerry> one other thing wrt acme screws. if you have a lathe, you can make a better fitting nut by taking a piece of the screw and using it as a tap. you need to mill the grooves in the tap somewhat offset and then harden it.
[19:10:08] <cncjerry> I guess you would need the mill as well.
[19:11:07] <cncjerry> I made acme nuts this way. I also tried that epoxy to make a nut, it has graphit in it. the net was extremely tight but zero backlash.
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[19:11:59] <cncjerry> can't remember the name of the epoxy that has the lube in it. but you basically spray the acme srew and then mold around it. makes a perfect nut that will wear for years.
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[19:16:58] <syyl_> cncjerry
[19:17:02] <syyl_> its called "moglice"
[19:17:08] <syyl_> made by diamant
[19:17:26] <syyl_> http://diamant-polymer.de/en/products/moglice/
[19:17:43] <syyl_> i use that stuff quite a lot for slideways
[19:19:46] <cncjerry> yep, that is the one.
[19:20:15] <roycroft> i haven't been able to eliminate all the backlash in my acme screws
[19:20:16] <cncjerry> only problem is you have to have a plan before you mix it. I had a lot left over
[19:20:19] <roycroft> perhaps i could work on that some more
[19:20:42] <roycroft> an advantage of keeping them, besides the cost savings, is that i could still use the mill manually
[19:21:07] <syyl_> if the mill is cnc, you will never use it via the handwheels :D
[19:21:35] <roycroft> i think that's likely the case, but i'm not 100% certain
[19:21:57] <cncjerry> yep. I wouldn't jump right into ballscrews. as far as manually, I have a manual g0704. takes about 5 minutes of cranking before I switch to the larger cnc mill.
[19:22:44] <roycroft> sometimes you just have to do a cleanup pass on a piece of metal
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[19:22:56] <roycroft> or drill and tap a couple holes
[19:23:10] <roycroft> there are lots of reasons to use a mill manually
[19:23:37] <cncjerry> I bought the manual mill just to have a drill press but I use if for mostly flycutting for some reason. I don't think I've drilled a hole yet.
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[19:24:28] <roycroft> and i hardly ever use my drill press any more
[19:25:14] <andypugh> I hardly ever flycut, I prefer to surface on a lathe in a 4-jaw chuck. Don't ask why, I don't know.
[19:25:56] <archivist> how good is the lathe it should be dished a little
[19:26:06] <archivist> never domed
[19:26:06] <roycroft> my current lathe is just a little 7x14
[19:26:18] <cncjerry> someone told my that lathes will generally dish a surface for some reason. Never measured one from a facing cut
[19:26:22] <roycroft> after i cnc the mill, getting a decent size lathe is my next major purchase
[19:26:48] <roycroft> like a 14x40
[19:27:06] <cncjerry> yeh, if your floor will hold it
[19:27:42] <cncjerry> I think lathes dish on facing because the speed changes as you move towards the center.
[19:27:49] <archivist> that will go in a garage ok
[19:28:04] <ReadError> is that in cm or inches roycroft ?
[19:28:07] <cncjerry> I would have a larger mill if it didn't take a crane to get it in the basement
[19:28:28] <roycroft> a 14x40 isn't that big
[19:28:34] <roycroft> inches, readerror
[19:28:46] <ReadError> UNIT TRADER!
[19:29:10] <roycroft> i don't translate
[19:29:20] <roycroft> lathes are sold in inches in this country
[19:30:21] <roycroft> and i actually do most machining in imperial units, because drawings come that way and more importantly, metric tooling is insanely expensive in the us
[19:30:53] <cncjerry> yes, I tried to buy a 19mm reamer.
[19:31:03] <roycroft> why should an otherwise identical 12mm end mill cost 4x as much as a 1/2" end mill?
[19:31:16] <syyl_> 19mm is a uncommon size
[19:31:22] <syyl_> even in metric-contries
[19:31:24] <roycroft> 19mm is quite common
[19:31:35] <roycroft> go put a wrench on a lug nut
[19:31:51] <syyl_> uncommon for a reamer :P
[19:31:58] <roycroft> for a reamer, perhaps
[19:32:01] <ReadError> .75 " ?
[19:32:04] <cncjerry> 19mm matches again what is called .75 or 3/4 carbon tube
[19:32:12] <cncjerry> but it is .787
[19:32:33] <syyl_> ah
[19:32:41] <syyl_> my tool supplier lists a 19mm machine reamer
[19:32:43] <cncjerry> so I bore on the lathe to .787 because the freaking reamer was like 60 bucks
[19:32:44] <syyl_> :D
[19:32:50] <syyl_> costs 80eur
[19:32:52] <archivist> schlesinger spec is dished 0 ,02mm per 300mm in dia
[19:33:20] <syyl_> or less :D
[19:33:47] <archivist> that is the 0 :) never domed
[19:34:08] <syyl_> ah, missread :D
[19:34:12] <roycroft> cncjerry: adjustable reamers are unit-agnostic :)
[19:34:22] <syyl_> but a pain to use ;)
[19:34:37] <roycroft> more painful than setting up and adjusting a boring bar?
[19:34:59] <syyl_> close up :D
[19:35:16] <syyl_> but a well made boring bar is easy to setup
[19:35:25] <archivist> I got lucky and got a copy of testing machine tools 8th ed
[19:35:42] <syyl_> the complete schlesinger?
[19:36:17] <archivist> complete?, it is only a 110 page book
[19:37:00] <syyl_> a friend showed it to me
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[19:37:08] <syyl_> its not that easy to get any more
[19:37:26] <cncjerry> 80 eur in the US
[19:37:34] <archivist> I saw a silly £400 price on amazon after I got mine
[19:37:41] <cncjerry> cant use a blade reamer in a blind hole
[19:38:25] <cncjerry> so I am planning to turn down some drill rod and make a simple reamer since the material is aluminum.
[19:38:54] <cncjerry> pretty easy to make, only has to be smooth and within .002
[19:39:00] <syyl_> make one like a dbit
[19:39:14] <syyl_> and drill trough it, to feed air while reaming
[19:39:20] <cncjerry> If I could find a 19mm drill bit I could grind the tip off
[19:39:42] <cncjerry> that 19mm drill bit for $5.
[19:40:38] <andypugh> What you want is my Wohlhaupter
[19:40:47] <syyl_> or my wohlhaupter ;)
[19:41:04] <syyl_> got a nice upa1
[19:41:05] <syyl_> http://gtwr.de/wohlhaupter.jpg
[19:41:06] <syyl_> ;)
[19:43:01] <andypugh> Ooh! I want a UPA1, they are so cute.
[19:43:08] <syyl_> :)
[19:43:10] <andypugh> I onlu have a 3 and a 4
[19:43:14] <syyl_> bought it from a friend
[19:43:18] <syyl_> as i was in his shop
[19:43:23] <cncjerry> nice what do they run?
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[19:43:35] <andypugh> New price is about $6000
[19:43:44] <syyl_> he pulled out two upa1, and a upa2, upa3 and upa4
[19:43:45] <syyl_> ...
[19:44:04] <syyl_> used they range from 200 to 400eur
[19:44:05] <cncjerry> considering that you dont want the tool but the hole it makes
[19:44:07] <syyl_> over here
[19:44:45] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zAh6K3E0uRG9Uhj9WWvqG9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[19:44:59] <syyl_> oh yeah :)
[19:45:10] <syyl_> the shank on the upa3 looks a bit beaten up.. :D
[19:45:24] <andypugh> It was surface rust, it cleaned off
[19:45:32] <syyl_> ah good
[19:45:53] <syyl_> i love those
[19:45:56] <syyl_> they are fun to use
[19:46:30] <andypugh> The UPA3 has the advantage of having replacable shanks. (And the way they connect is really clever)
[19:46:43] <syyl_> with the differential screw?
[19:46:49] <andypugh> Yes
[19:47:17] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/htq_fG48t1woUa8e4Rs40dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink and the next two
[19:47:44] <cncjerry> I am waiting for someone to tell me why a boaring head should cost 6k.
[19:47:57] <syyl_> it a piece of precision tooling
[19:48:03] <cncjerry> what, are they automatic?
[19:48:04] <syyl_> and it has cross feed
[19:48:08] <syyl_> for surfacing
[19:48:18] <andypugh> Thet are beautifully made, all out of hardened steel.
[19:48:26] <cncjerry> cross feed? how does that work
[19:48:34] <andypugh> That UPA4 is the most nicely made thing I have ever handled.
[19:48:42] <syyl_> you hold the knurled ring while its rotating
[19:48:51] <syyl_> and it feeds the slide
[19:49:00] <cncjerry> cool
[19:49:35] <cncjerry> sounds about as dangerous as hand tightening router bits
[19:49:42] <syyl_> pff
[19:50:06] <syyl_> it even has two adjustable stops
[19:50:10] <syyl_> and an internal clutch
[19:50:14] <syyl_> for the cross slide
[19:50:20] <andypugh> On the UPA4 it increments by a variable amount depending on how many plungers you push in. The plungers are in pairs with a tiny gear between them so that as you push one the partner pops up. It then auto-feeds to the end-stop, and rapid-reverses back...
[19:50:23] <syyl_> the clutch trips like butter
[19:50:38] <syyl_> *click* and stops
[19:50:56] <cncjerry> ok, now I need one
[19:51:52] <andypugh> For quick adjustment the UPA4 has a hex socket on the end of the screw. There are 3 balls in the corners of the socket so that when you put the hex-key in it unlocks, but then it re-locks when you take the key out again.
[19:52:13] <andypugh> Definitely made to a quality, not to a price.
[19:52:24] <syyl_> and everything on it
[19:52:28] <syyl_> it made to such a high standard
[19:52:37] <syyl_> even the stops are hardened and ground all over
[19:54:25] <cncjerry> so if I bought one, the first time I used it, I would crash it into my hardened vise jaws at 3000 rpm
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[19:54:38] <cncjerry> then I would do an x rapid to finish it off
[19:54:44] <syyl_> when i use mine
[19:54:48] <syyl_> i always double check
[19:54:52] <syyl_> and then check again :P
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[20:00:21] * frallzor cuddles mrsun
[20:01:12] <PCW> PCW slowly backs away
[20:01:47] * archivist gets a bucket of water to throw over the pair
[20:02:33] * Jymmm hands archivist the fire hose
[20:03:42] -!- factor [factor!~factor@r74-195-219-241.msk1cmtc02.mskgok.ok.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #linuxcnc
[20:04:00] <alex4nder> yoh
[20:07:37] <frallzor> Im not afraid to do you too
[20:07:59] <frallzor> that sounded somewhat wrong, ill just keep eating cake now
[20:16:22] <Jymmm> cake, crow, same diff.
[20:16:59] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_3967.jpg todays failure
[20:17:30] <frallzor> or more like an experiment showing pros and cons, and some issues I forgot =)
[20:17:42] <archivist> tool fell out?
[20:18:02] <archivist> or router fell of gantry
[20:18:35] <frallzor> trying to figure it out, either tool fell out some or a case cutter = 5mm and shaft = 6mm
[20:18:42] <frallzor> *case of
[20:18:58] <frallzor> forgot to take that in consideration when making the program
[20:19:30] <frallzor> but as a whole the test was a sucess, HSM worked fine =)
[20:21:30] <frallzor> but using el cheapo 2 cutter tools so no biggie
[20:30:05] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:41:51] <mrsun> frallzor, meh
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[20:43:21] <frallzor> schhhh
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[21:05:50] <Connor> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html <-- Is what I was looking for the other day.. nice setup to have pre-canned functions.. subroutines or whatever you want to call them.
[21:06:30] <Connor> Need one for plugging in G73 variables.. that would be threading easy.
[21:08:09] <Connor> err.. g76
[21:08:51] <jdhNC> someone here had a nice page of ncgui stuff
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[21:09:44] <jdhNC> sushi time!
[21:12:16] <frallzor> haaaai
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[21:31:45] <cncjerry> on the older version of emc2 there was a change for large DRO. can't remember the name. anyone?
[21:37:22] <andypugh> There is a tab for it?
[21:37:22] <andypugh> Or do you want bigger than that?
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[21:41:07] <elmo401> JT-Shop how many shops are you in? ;)
[21:49:29] <cncjerry> tab, what do you mean?
[21:50:23] <skunkworks> in axis - there is a 'dro' tab that switches from the preview to a dro
[21:54:40] <cncjerry> must be new to me. I'll go look
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[21:59:03] <cncjerry> theh tab is helpful but I am looking to make the dro on the preview larger
[21:59:23] <cncjerry> I can't remember how we did it with the old version. I don't think it was an axis mod.
[22:00:11] <andypugh> There is a huge DRO as a PyVCP example (might be GladeVCP)
[22:00:51] <cncjerry> yes but was trying to avoid the pyvcp
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[22:01:12] <cncjerry> there was a simple way to change the dro font in the past. I am looking at axis now
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[22:02:48] <cradek> it's on the view menu
[22:03:09] <cradek> and holy wow it's bigger than I remember
[22:03:33] <cncjerry> found it.
[22:03:39] <cncjerry> yes, it is bigger
[22:04:11] <cncjerry> ok, so this machine is slowing coming back to normal
[22:06:55] <elmo401> I want a selectable DRO on the LCD of my pendant. Any one done that before? (select between distance to go and the rest...)
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[22:12:24] <andypugh> I think that is going to depend enormously on your pendant
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[22:17:40] * frallzor wants his new cutters
[22:17:58] <JT-Shop-4> I can e-mail you some
[22:19:16] <frallzor> not sure theyll do much good in the machine
[22:19:22] <JT-Shop-4> lol
[22:19:34] <JT-Shop-4> I saw the part when I came back just now
[22:21:02] <frallzor> besides thes issue caused by some unknown occurance (spelling?) it looks pretty nice
[22:21:39] <JT-Shop-4> the gouge marks on the left lower corner?
[22:22:23] <frallzor> I assume its the cutter length + shaft that made some boo boo
[22:22:30] <frallzor> and then all was lost
[22:23:03] <frallzor> but it was el cheapo tools so I dont care =)
[22:23:44] <JT-Shop-4> quite a bit of time machining that part?
[22:24:15] <frallzor> yup
[22:24:25] <frallzor> but time is free
[22:24:31] <frallzor> I dot things while it machines
[22:24:35] <frallzor> *do
[22:24:37] <JT-Shop-4> I keep running out of it
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[22:36:50] <frallzor> jebus im bored
[22:36:59] <frallzor> 00.30 AM here
[22:38:15] <JT-Shop-4> no chips flying about?
[22:40:00] <frallzor> nah too late for me
[22:40:08] <frallzor> no fun without proper tooling too
[22:40:17] <JT-Shop-4> yea
[22:40:18] <frallzor> ordered some 3 flute cutters for alu
[22:40:37] <frallzor> both flat end and ball end
[22:40:52] <JT-Shop-4> I don't have a spindle that twirls fast enough to make use of 3 flute for al
[22:41:12] <frallzor> I only have a spindle that twirls enough for that :P
[22:41:49] <frallzor> what speed would you say is nice for 2 flute cutters in alu?
[22:42:06] <frallzor> I used 13500 RPM to get somewhat ok torque too
[22:42:11] <JT-Shop-4> my fastest is 6k but it won't go that fast atm
[22:43:37] <JT-Shop-4> the cutters I use recommend 1600-2000 SFM for aluminum
[22:44:06] <frallzor> im pretty sure I cant find any info on that for what I used =P
[22:44:28] <JT-Shop-4> so for a 1/4" cutter it would do 30,500 rpm at 275 IPM
[22:44:34] <JT-Shop-4> that's kicking ass
[22:45:00] <JT-Shop-4> you have flood coolant?
[22:45:24] <frallzor> nah im trying to keep it coolant-free
[22:45:36] <frallzor> since its not really a coolant-friendly machine
[22:45:42] <JT-Shop-4> from my experiance over the last few years chip load is most important for dry cutting
[22:45:51] <JT-Shop-4> to pull the heat out
[22:49:23] <frallzor> any links on that?
[22:49:36] <frallzor> thats something I allways wanted to know more about
[22:49:50] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you think i should scope my power supply before wiring up the mesa drivers?
[22:50:18] <JT-Shop-4> I use lakeshore carbide cutters for the most part and they have feed and speed charts lakeshorecarbide.com
[22:50:55] <Tom_itx> i think i'll have some time to work on it this evening
[22:50:57] <JT-Shop-4> Tom_itx: I don't know why unless your just bored
[22:51:06] <Tom_itx> meh, not really
[22:52:06] <JT-Shop-4> scoping out my BP with the Anilam control and drives the DC power supply is just a bridge rectifier with a cap and puts out like 170vdc from 120vac in
[22:52:24] <JT-Shop-4> the conversion seems simple enough
[22:53:11] <frallzor> HSM with SS, a dream?
[22:53:22] <andypugh> Saw some interesting parts at work today. All our new prototype cars have front suspension arms carved from solid. An exact copy of a forging, but machined from solid with a 6mm ball nose cutter (it looks like)
[22:53:59] <JT-Shop-4> bet that took a while to machine
[22:54:23] <andypugh> Aye, and there are probably 30 parts on site.
[22:55:19] <JT-Shop-4> oh bother, I got the wrong leader for my fly rod today... the numbers go backwards
[22:56:58] <JT-Shop-4> I assumed 6X was bigger than 4X but it turns out 6X is the smallest with a test of 3lb on the tippet
[23:00:25] <JT-Shop-4> frallzor: http://forum.hsmworks.com/index.php?topic=905.0
[23:07:55] <frallzor> Does it seem like I need localized language? :(
[23:09:18] <andypugh> Need, no. But maybe prefer?
[23:09:39] <frallzor> nah, its lame
[23:09:53] <frallzor> mostly issues when you need help too
[23:10:06] <frallzor> "how to make blurgen smoergen with the tool?"
[23:10:44] <andypugh> Was that real Swedish or Comedy Swedish?
[23:10:49] <frallzor> comedy
[23:11:10] <frallzor> name a word I should translate
[23:11:30] <andypugh> "Drag" :-)
[23:11:38] <frallzor> drag
[23:12:00] <frallzor> if you mean like "....queen"
[23:12:16] <andypugh> No, as in "Pull"
[23:12:30] <frallzor> i mean you name the english word :P
[23:12:44] <andypugh> That was one of the words I noticed was the same
[23:13:12] <frallzor> ah drag
[23:13:41] <frallzor> drag is more like "pulling along something"
[23:13:55] <frallzor> or well, never mind, same shit =P
[23:14:09] * frallzor is tired
[23:14:18] <andypugh> I noticed that there were quite a few Swedish words which were the "forceful" version of an English word. So, you might pull something, or drag something that didn't want to be pulled.
[23:14:44] <frallzor> yeah, that was kind of what I was going for
[23:15:09] <andypugh> But I think "Drag" is that they put on door handles?
[23:15:42] <frallzor> drag as in swedish or english now
[23:15:56] <andypugh> Swedish. We have "Pull" on door handles.
[23:16:17] <frallzor> seems wrong
[23:16:29] <andypugh> Well, it was Jokkmokk
[23:16:39] <frallzor> that explains alot
[23:16:56] <frallzor> they make up words as they go along there
[23:17:11] <andypugh> Not a lot else to do.
[23:17:19] <frallzor> its worse than "deep south" in the states
[23:17:30] <andypugh> Colder, for a start
[23:19:42] <frallzor> speaking of.... I have some 1 flute spiral tools here
[23:19:48] <frallzor> some for alu. some for plastic
[23:20:10] <JT-Shop-4> I just thought it migh be interesting
[23:20:39] <frallzor> the plastic ones does wonders with acrylic
[23:20:45] <frallzor> but 1 flute for alu?
[23:21:15] <JT-Shop-4> I have some Onsrud 1 flute for plastic and they cut skin in an instant or less
[23:21:46] <frallzor> ahh onsrud
[23:21:48] <frallzor> same as me then
[23:22:50] <frallzor> if I remember correctly
[23:22:55] -!- decome37 [decome37!52f67659@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.246.118.89] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:23:06] <decome37> bon soire
[23:23:15] <decome37> bon soir
[23:23:21] <frallzor> nah this is what I have
[23:23:22] <frallzor> http://www.amanatool.com/cncroutingdetails/aluminum-cnc-spiral-bit-51402.html
[23:23:25] <frallzor> and for plastic
[23:23:27] <JT-Shop-4> howdy
[23:23:37] <frallzor> hola Mr French
[23:23:50] <decome37> hola
[23:23:52] <JT-Shop-4> lol
[23:24:07] <frallzor> (pun intended for the yanks in the room)
[23:24:09] <decome37> il y a t'il des francais ?
[23:25:00] <frallzor> voule vouz couche avec moi?
[23:25:07] <frallzor> + grammar
[23:25:17] * JT-Shop-4 looks for some 3/4" spacers for the bearing caps
[23:25:47] <frallzor> JT-Shop-4 any idea what good the cutters i linked are?
[23:26:00] <frallzor> should work wonders for cutting through sheets?
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[23:27:57] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop do you have a youtube of your plasma in action?
[23:29:53] <JT-Shop-4> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvhvQu5Xxtk
[23:30:24] <JT-Shop-4> frallzor: I've not seen one like that before
[23:32:18] <djdelorie> are those 8020 hdpe glides?
[23:32:43] <JT-Shop-4> some are some are frameworld which I like much better than 8020
[23:33:07] <djdelorie> how much play in those?
[23:33:50] <JT-Shop-4> not too much, the frameworld ones have seperate sides that you can "adjust" the slop with
[23:34:21] <djdelorie> I was looking through the 8020 catalog earlier today wondering if those would be sufficient for a "cnc kit" instead of linear bearings
[23:34:37] <JT-Shop-4> for plasma?
[23:34:42] <frallzor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ntECc2eY38 might interest you JT-Shop-4
[23:34:56] <djdelorie> for an intro router-based mill
[23:35:21] <JT-Shop-4> too much slop for anything that has side pressure
[23:36:06] <JT-Shop-4> if you had some rollers with the slides might work
[23:36:22] <djdelorie> 8020 has rollers too, but they don't look adjustable
[23:36:34] <JT-Shop-4> their slides arn
[23:36:36] <JT-Shop-4> t either
[23:36:40] <JT-Shop-4> arn't
[23:40:19] <djdelorie> sigh
[23:40:34] <djdelorie> diy cnc should be easier than it is
[23:42:01] <JT-Shop-4> just depends on the CNC machine you require on how easy it is...
[23:42:34] <JT-Shop-4> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd5FFaGo1GQ
[23:43:06] <JT-Shop-4> that one looks easy
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[23:43:31] <djdelorie> it's also not a router ;0-)
[23:46:20] <JT-Shop-4> lol
[23:47:19] <JT-Shop-4> I assume you need more a more rigid XY axis for routing but hey I don't have one... only thing missing I think
[23:47:41] <djdelorie> yeah. plywood isn't quite ridig enough, although it does work
[23:47:58] <djdelorie> but if one could fill in a web form and get an 8020 order form back, that might be helpful to newbies
[23:48:16] <djdelorie> "Please give me an order form for a table with a 24x36 working area, 5" Z"
[23:49:14] <frallzor> MDF seems popoular
[23:49:30] <frallzor> look at that joes cnc
[23:50:25] <JT-Shop-4> still need some kind of linear bearing for MDF and that is the pricy part
[23:50:32] <djdelorie> sure, for people with the tools to cut mdf
[23:50:48] <frallzor> a saw? =P
[23:51:07] <JT-Shop-4> a hand held router with a template
[23:51:27] <frallzor> joes is nice, its angle irons and regular bearings
[23:51:34] <frallzor> and a pipe
[23:51:37] <JT-Shop-4> the template would take a bit of time to build but the finished parts would be easy
[23:52:01] <djdelorie> there have been a few folks that come here asking if there's a turnkey cnc package available, wood and pipe isn't turnkey, but an 8020 order with a pdf instruction set might be close enough
[23:52:19] <djdelorie> esp if the order has all the right cut/drill stuff in it for each piece
[23:53:35] <JT-Shop-4> the problem with 8020 is the fittings, I spent 50% of the time building the fittings to hold the 8020 together on my plasma
[23:54:14] <djdelorie> it would have to be like mine, where you have a faceplate on your Z onto which you mount whatever spindle you want
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[23:54:55] <JT-Shop-4> got a photo of yours?
[23:55:48] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[23:55:57] <JT-Shop-4> Tom_itx: did you see what you needed?
[23:56:07] <djdelorie> here's the empty Z faceplate: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2571.html
[23:56:23] <djdelorie> here's a router mounted: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2536.html
[23:56:36] <JT-Shop-4> ah, I remember that one, nicely done
[23:56:40] <djdelorie> here's an air spindle mounted: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2605.html
[23:56:53] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop yes thanks
[23:57:00] <djdelorie> thanks! I think I need to redo some of the pieces, like the Y side walls, for more Z and less wobble
[23:57:18] <JT-Shop-4> nice big linear shafts on that
[23:58:02] <Tom_itx> i'm discussing servo vs stepper with someone. they don't feel steppers work well
[23:58:22] <Tom_itx> or should be used at all for that matter
[23:58:31] <djdelorie> big linear rails, skinny screws. The max speed is limited by the screw diameter, they whip and chatter at high RPM
[23:59:08] <djdelorie> steppers are easier to control and cheaper, but slow. Servos are harder to control and $$$, but more powerful at high RPM and don't lose their place
[23:59:13] <JT-Shop-4> Tom_itx: steppers are fine for some applications and servos are not cost effective for those applications if you know what I mean
[23:59:23] <djdelorie> at least, that's my take on it :-)
[23:59:33] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop yeah i'm well aware
[23:59:36] <JT-Shop-4> djdelorie: screw wipping?
[23:59:39] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure they are though