#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-18

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[00:00:00] <JT-Shop-4> send them over and I'll give them a shot of 1F
[00:00:09] <Tom_itx> heh
[00:00:23] <Tom_itx> i'm afraid he'd just argue your time away
[00:00:32] <JT-Shop-4> just stand in front of it and see if anything comes out!
[00:01:03] <Tom_itx> :D
[00:01:10] <JT-Shop-4> OK, my Mom told me never argue with an idiot, then drag you down to their level and beat you with experiance
[00:01:42] <Tom_itx> well it's all my fault anyway
[00:01:46] <Tom_itx> i banned him once
[00:01:54] <Tom_itx> about a year later i let him back in
[00:01:56] <Tom_itx> my mistake
[00:02:29] <JT-Shop-4> banned from?
[00:02:31] <Tom_itx> i'm done wasting time anyway. out to work on the psu and drivers
[00:02:39] <Tom_itx> banned from a irc channel
[00:02:47] <alex4nder> hah
[00:02:47] <JT-Shop-4> time for bubbles and squeak here
[00:03:05] <Tom_itx> he pm'd me for about a week after that
[00:03:17] <JT-Shop-4> DT's?
[00:03:33] <Tom_itx> huh?
[00:04:14] <JT-Shop-4> withdrawals
[00:04:27] <alex4nder> yah
[00:04:29] <Tom_itx> apparently
[00:04:35] <JT-Shop-4> holy crap djdelorie you made the driver boards?
[00:04:37] <alex4nder> there's a great beer named DT
[00:04:44] <djdelorie> yup
[00:04:59] <JT-Shop-4> I made a beer I called WB
[00:05:05] <JT-Shop-4> Weevil Beer
[00:05:12] <djdelorie> the whole project started with free motors and a challenge: "If you can figure out how to run these, there's enough for both of us"
[00:05:14] <frallzor> I made a beer too once
[00:05:17] -!- fatpandas has quit [Quit: leaving]
[00:05:21] <frallzor> first and only attempt
[00:05:25] <frallzor> I called it crap
[00:05:26] <alex4nder> djdelorie: haha
[00:05:45] <djdelorie> I still need to find time to redo the inner loops, though. They don't tune well.
[00:05:54] <alex4nder> djdelorie: BTW, with 80/20.. the only adjustment I've seen on their linear motion gear is through shimming.
[00:05:54] <JT-Shop-4> ROTFLMAO
[00:05:56] <JT-Shop-4> http://gnipsel.com/beer/beer.html
[00:06:29] <djdelorie> I'm thinking clever design of an 8020 system might be "good enough" for a starter mill
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[00:07:02] <JT-Shop-4> djdelorie: your work is impressive!
[00:07:06] <djdelorie> thanks!
[00:07:16] <djdelorie> and it only took three years, too! ;-)
[00:07:49] <djdelorie> (a little bit at a time, of course, not three years solid...)
[00:08:05] * JT-Shop-4 wanders inside to strap on the feed bag
[00:08:14] <JT-Shop-4> say goodnight Gracie
[00:08:20] <djdelorie> goodnight gracie
[00:08:22] <JT-Shop-4> see you guys later
[00:08:53] <Jymmm> djdelorie: 80/20 for a mill???
[00:09:15] <djdelorie> cnc wood router mill
[00:09:27] <Jymmm> router != Mill
[00:09:55] <Jymmm> 80/20 for a router, I got one. For a mill, dont think it be stiff enough
[00:09:58] <djdelorie> not as far as linuxcnc cares
[00:09:59] <alex4nder> let the hair splitting commence!
[00:10:52] <Jymmm> alex4nder: if ou think a router/mill is hair splitting, remind me never to let you touch any of my tools
[00:11:11] <alex4nder> Jymmm: please educate the class
[00:11:16] <djdelorie> I have a wood lathe and a metal lathe, they're both lathes
[00:12:00] <Jymmm> alex4nder: That is an exercise for you to research on your own
[00:12:09] <alex4nder> haha
[00:12:16] <alex4nder> please.
[00:12:45] <frallzor> awww the only pictures of my first build are no longer =/
[00:13:12] <alex4nder> Jymmm: so what's the answer?
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[00:13:44] <Jymmm> alex4nder: 42
[00:13:49] <alex4nder> that's what I thought.
[00:13:51] <alex4nder> it's splitting hairs.
[00:14:08] <Jymmm> alex4nder: And it's STILL an exercise for you to research on your own
[00:14:21] <alex4nder> that response only means you don't have an answer.
[00:14:42] <alex4nder> it's an argument tactic employed by junior-high school students everywhere.
[00:14:45] <Jymmm> It that's what you want to believe, then sure, why not.
[00:14:49] <alex4nder> haha
[00:14:54] <alex4nder> another good one.
[00:16:29] <alex4nder> s linuxcnc cares
[00:16:44] <alex4nder> sick misclick.
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[00:35:43] <ReadError> http://i.imgur.com/rKrUQ.png
[00:35:47] <ReadError> going to cut that tonight
[00:36:40] <alex4nder> nice
[00:36:42] <alex4nder> aluminum?
[00:39:39] <ReadError> yea
[00:39:42] <ReadError> 0.125"
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[01:06:12] <jdhNC> I replaced a PLC cpu module yesterday morning with a slightly newer, slightly faster one and things have been unstable ever since.
[01:06:38] <Connor> jdhNC: In what ?
[01:07:08] <jdhNC> automated TIG welder & Ultrasonic weld inspection machine
[01:07:15] <Valen> there is no defined difference between a mill and a router, its a sliding scale
[01:07:33] <Valen> I have often wanted to put the TIG torch in our mill ;->
[01:07:34] <jdhNC> Valen: I know the difference.
[01:08:15] <Valen> i'm sure you have seen examples of both
[01:08:50] <jdhNC> I know what 'pretty' is too !
[01:09:08] <alex4nder> haha
[01:09:20] <alex4nder> next jdhNC will be arguing that his god is better than my god
[01:09:36] <jdhNC> s/god/unicorn/
[01:09:37] <Valen> well obviously
[01:09:43] <Valen> how many arms does your god have
[01:09:47] <jdhNC> none
[01:09:52] <Valen> (mine has tentacles)
[01:09:57] <alex4nder> mine has testicles
[01:10:14] <Valen> lol alex4nder made the same spelling mistake i did
[01:10:21] <Valen> then picked the wrong correction
[01:10:58] <alex4nder> wrong my left nut
[01:11:07] <Jymmm> Braise JeeBus!
[01:11:19] <Valen> i bet your left nut is a damn imperial size too
[01:14:01] <alex4nder> it goes my god vs. your god, metric vs. imperial, and then emacs vs. vi .. in that order
[01:14:14] <Valen> pshaw nano or death!
[01:14:31] <alex4nder> nano is the scientology of text editors
[01:14:46] <Valen> nano is the agnostic of text editors
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[01:21:58] <ReadError> vim > *
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[02:37:41] <Connor> Anyone have any nice scripts for ncgui ?
[02:58:42] <Tom_itx> i'm guessing JT would since he uses it quite a bit
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[03:09:09] <linux-cnc-bob> hi
[03:09:55] <linux-cnc-bob> for a 3axis mill example, the coordinates are -4 to +4 on the XY axis' but the mill is setup from 0 to 10 coordinates so I get an error when I try to run the gcode
[03:10:11] <linux-cnc-bob> whats the best way to run gcode on a mill set up like this?
[03:10:12] <Tom_itx> so change the limits
[03:10:21] <djdelorie> or touch off a different origin
[03:10:44] <linux-cnc-bob> i'd have to chang the limits again if the next gcode was 0 to 8
[03:10:52] <Valen> you dont change the limits
[03:10:53] <linux-cnc-bob> seems slow
[03:11:09] <Valen> machine cordinates have nothing to do with the part your making
[03:11:53] <djdelorie> don't confuse the machine's physical origin with the "part origin" for each job
[03:12:15] <linux-cnc-bob> well i get this error: "program exceeds machine minimum on axisX
[03:12:41] <djdelorie> right, you need to touch off the part origin correctly
[03:12:42] <Tom_itx> yeah, once you have your limits set you shouldn't need to change it
[03:12:50] <Tom_itx> adjust your gcode to be within the limits
[03:13:03] <Valen> or touch off with sufficent offset
[03:13:16] <linux-cnc-bob> how do you create a touch off offset?
[03:13:16] <djdelorie> "touching off" confused me at first too. It's the process of saying "this part I manually moved to, is really point X,Y in the gcode"
[03:13:31] <Valen> when you touch off, it has cordinates in it
[03:13:48] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[03:14:21] <linux-cnc-bob> i see
[03:14:22] <djdelorie> er, "this point" I meant
[03:14:28] <linux-cnc-bob> i thought it was just for Z axis
[03:14:33] <linux-cnc-bob> but works for XY too
[03:14:34] <linux-cnc-bob> thanks
[03:18:09] <linux-cnc-bob> how can i take an example that has dimensions of 4"x4" and scale it down 10x?
[03:18:20] <Valen> get new gcode
[03:18:31] <linux-cnc-bob> if there are real numbers in the gcode
[03:18:38] <Valen> anything else is just screwing around
[03:18:41] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[03:18:43] <djdelorie> or hack your stepconf to 1/10th the steps per "inch" :-)
[03:18:56] <Valen> djdelorie: rember when i said screwing around ;-P
[03:18:57] <linux-cnc-bob> does that work?
[03:19:00] <djdelorie> yup :-)
[03:19:01] <Valen> it'll work
[03:19:08] <Valen> but its dodgy, like djdelorie ;-P
[03:19:18] <linux-cnc-bob> should have a button to set scale with that method in the gui :D
[03:19:25] <djdelorie> the only problem is, your tool bit will seem 10x bigger fron the gcode's perspective
[03:19:29] <Valen> nobody wants to do that
[03:19:30] <linux-cnc-bob> oh
[03:19:34] <Valen> and thats why
[03:19:35] <djdelorie> and feed rates will be all wrong
[03:19:39] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[03:19:50] <djdelorie> and chip sizes
[03:20:30] <linux-cnc-bob> my mill cnc3040 from ebay
[03:20:33] <linux-cnc-bob> every hear of it?
[03:20:35] <linux-cnc-bob> ever^
[03:20:44] <Valen> unfortunatly lol
[03:21:00] <linux-cnc-bob> it has small steppers on it, but I am putting 425oz.in ones on
[03:21:08] <linux-cnc-bob> nema23 same boltholes
[03:21:16] <Valen> is it worth doing that?
[03:21:19] <jdhNC> do you want power or speed?
[03:21:21] <linux-cnc-bob> not sure
[03:21:30] <linux-cnc-bob> well the steppers were stalling
[03:22:09] <linux-cnc-bob> basically want decent feed rate
[03:22:14] <linux-cnc-bob> not power
[03:22:29] <linux-cnc-bob> guess the mill is a bit of a piece of junk :)
[03:22:47] <linux-cnc-bob> has rollerblade bearings on the leadscrews
[03:23:08] <Valen> putting bigger steppers on might just bend the frame more
[03:23:28] <linux-cnc-bob> frame is prebent?
[03:23:51] <Valen> things bend under load
[03:23:56] <Valen> push harder they bend more
[03:23:58] <linux-cnc-bob> like twist?
[03:24:07] <Connor> Doesn't look like a bad little router.
[03:24:26] <djdelorie> when I was testing my limit switch logic, I hit the end stop and bowed the whole leadscrew about 4"" off-center. Fortunately it was just a test rig
[03:24:43] <linux-cnc-bob> conner: ya it is pretty nice for the mone
[03:24:45] <linux-cnc-bob> y
[03:25:15] <Connor> 425oz-in steppers should be good for it.. It use ACME or Ball screws ?
[03:25:21] <linux-cnc-bob> acme
[03:25:29] <linux-cnc-bob> trapezoidal
[03:25:40] <linux-cnc-bob> a bit different angle than acme or something
[03:26:07] <djdelorie> it does look like a reasonable machine, with single-stack steppers.
[03:26:18] <linux-cnc-bob> i measured the gap from one "thread" to the next on the leadscrew about 2mm, but the table goes 4mm with one rotation!?
[03:26:22] <Connor> I'm running 425's in my DIY build out of MDF... Plenty of power and speed.. but, I use ballscrews.
[03:26:35] <djdelorie> so yeah, a double-stack upgrade with bigger power supply and drivers would seem a reasonable upgrade option
[03:27:00] <jdhNC> connor: where did you get the ballscrews for that?
[03:27:06] <linux-cnc-bob> djdelorie: it comes with toshiba 3Amp stepper drivers so hopefully they handle the 425s
[03:27:07] <Connor> LM2008
[03:27:12] <djdelorie> Connor: do you find the Y axis is flexible with MDF? Mine is, I need to find a way to keep it from wobbling
[03:27:13] <jdhNC> and what speeds are you running yoru g0704 at now?
[03:27:19] <Connor> Same ones you got for the g0704.
[03:27:29] <Valen> actually acme or just allthread?
[03:27:31] <Connor> be right back.
[03:27:38] <djdelorie> linux-cnc-bob: what do you have for a power supply?
[03:28:00] <linux-cnc-bob> its a 24V switching supply, think 15Amp not sure
[03:28:55] <linux-cnc-bob> its built into the electronics box that came with the mill
[03:29:42] <linux-cnc-bob> whats the best type of replacement bearings for leadscrews?
[03:30:30] <Valen> pairs of angular contact
[03:30:47] <linux-cnc-bob> one single row angular contact on each end?
[03:30:55] <Connor> djdelorie: No. Flex. But my Y is only 12" travel.
[03:31:10] <Valen> no a pair at one end then a plain one with a slip fit at the end
[03:31:15] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc13.JPG
[03:31:18] <Valen> at the other end
[03:31:55] <linux-cnc-bob> can the pair be replaced with 1 double row angular contact bearinG?
[03:32:16] <Connor> jdhNC: I get get 80-100IPM on the Z. X around 60-70IPM and Y about the same.. I was getting the Y faster, but, I tightened up the jam nuts to take out more backlash..
[03:32:52] <Connor> 1 Pair of AC with a single bearing on the other end floating.
[03:33:11] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc11.JPG
[03:33:43] <linux-cnc-bob> there are single row and double row angular contact bearings, i guess single row is fine if used as a pair, and can use 1 double row by itself instead?
[03:34:29] <Connor> 2 signle row's back to back. Matched set is typical .. Getting a matched set can be pricey...
[03:34:46] <djdelorie> I suspect flex depends more on Z travel - taller sides allow more motion
[03:35:24] <Connor> djdelorie: Yea. Mine is more compact.. by design. 18"x12"x4.5" with 6" clearance on the gantry.
[03:35:40] <linux-cnc-bob> looks good
[03:35:52] <linux-cnc-bob> im making pcb's too
[03:35:53] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[03:36:12] <Connor> Z was suppose to have been 6" but, I forgot to take into account the length of the ballnut.. Hence the lose of 1.5" of travel. :(
[03:36:14] <djdelorie> using that photo as a reference, on mine, the router can be pushed left-right quite a bit, because the two uprights allow it. I haven't figured out how best to solve that
[03:36:29] <linux-cnc-bob> gonna try double layer with the copper wire hand-sewed through via technique
[03:36:49] <djdelorie> linux-cnc-bob: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2605.html
[03:37:02] <djdelorie> I'm only using it for drilling, though
[03:37:18] <Valen> they dont need to be matched if they are opposed
[03:37:29] <Valen> matching is only for putting in say 2 opposed pairs
[03:37:42] <Connor> You want them opposed
[03:37:47] <linux-cnc-bob> djdelorie: coool
[03:37:53] <Connor> back to back... to take out backlash.
[03:38:00] <Valen> yes but matching doesn't do anything if they are opposed
[03:38:20] <djdelorie> instead of sewing copper wire, pick up some 28ga brass wire at a hardware store. It's a common size, and fits snug in a #80 (13.5 mil) hole
[03:38:37] <Valen> it basically means they deflect the same amount under load so if you put 2 of the pair in the same direction they will share rather than one taking all the load
[03:38:59] <Connor> djdelorie: How thick is your back board on the gantry? Looks like a 3/16" or so ??
[03:39:00] <linux-cnc-bob> djdelorie yo still have to solder both sides of the brass wire i gues
[03:39:15] <djdelorie> linux-cnc-bob: yes, but the wire stays put when you melt the solder
[03:39:27] <djdelorie> Connor: it's cheap 1/4 luan. It's first on the "Try this" list
[03:39:41] <Connor> Yea, mine is 3/4" MDF..
[03:39:52] <linux-cnc-bob> djdelorie: with the "sewing" technigue i saw, it stays put too cause its one long wire through all the vias
[03:39:56] <djdelorie> linux-cnc-bob: so you can solder one side, but it off, do the next hole, etc; then go back and solder the *other* sides without the wire moving
[03:40:02] <Connor> And it's not on the back, it's in between.
[03:40:20] <djdelorie> I've done both. Sewing is harder because you have to get the iron down inbetween the loops
[03:40:23] <Connor> I'm using the Cross Dowel nuts.
[03:40:42] <djdelorie> Connor: yeah, that's probably my biggest problem there
[03:40:55] <Valen> a single bearing with a pair of bearings in it is ok, but you will want to check out what the preload is on it
[03:41:20] <Connor> I would say that's 100% your problem. :)
[03:41:53] <linux-cnc-bob> valen: the mill i have uses roller bearings!
[03:42:07] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/img_2571.html is the best photo of it - it's attached to the back with a couple screws, that's all.
[03:42:07] <Valen> nothing wrong with those either
[03:42:14] <djdelorie> hey, it's my "learning" machine :-)
[03:42:18] <Valen> tapered roller bearings are good for higher loads
[03:42:25] <Valen> just preload them up
[03:42:31] <linux-cnc-bob> valen: ok
[03:42:38] <Connor> My mill uses thrust bearings..
[03:44:13] <Connor> Mine is all direct drive too.
[03:47:17] <linux-cnc-bob> whats a good way to make diy drill bit changer for drilling circuit boards?
[03:48:42] <Connor> Depends on the spindle..
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[03:49:56] <linux-cnc-bob> say er13 or er20
[03:50:30] <Connor> again, depends on the spindle.. you talking a router, or a a spindle with a draw bar ?
[03:51:50] <Connor> They're was some quick change chucks from sears, but the run-out was pretty bad...
[03:52:21] <linux-cnc-bob> its a spindle with a draw bar iguess
[03:52:27] <linux-cnc-bob> (not sure what a draw bar is)
[03:52:53] <linux-cnc-bob> er13 collet with collet nut to retain the bit
[03:52:54] <Connor> drawbar goes through the spindle.. you tighten it from the top and it pulls the collet in.
[03:52:58] <linux-cnc-bob> oh
[03:53:24] <linux-cnc-bob> this one has a nut on the bottom to tighten
[03:53:36] <Connor> Yea.. I'm not sure... I've not seen much for those..
[03:55:08] <linux-cnc-bob> is "jog speed" the speed the tool travels between cuts?
[03:55:31] <Connor> No, Jog speed is manually moving it yourself using keys.
[03:55:39] <linux-cnc-bob> ok
[03:55:44] <linux-cnc-bob> are there hot keys ?
[03:55:48] <linux-cnc-bob> for XYZ?
[03:56:06] <linux-cnc-bob> lol
[03:56:09] <linux-cnc-bob> just found em
[03:58:08] <ReadError> whats a good source for cheap aluminum ?
[03:58:16] <ReadError> besides a scrap yard...
[04:10:47] <Thetawaves> soda cans?
[04:10:56] <Thetawaves> you trying to cast?
[04:11:13] <Thetawaves> it's hard to get good casting from soda cans, but everybody suggests piston heads
[04:11:30] <Thetawaves> s/heads//
[04:15:33] <Tom_itx> scrap transmission casings, old aluminum heads etc
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[04:48:08] <Connor> trying to figure out the G76 command...
[04:48:10] <Connor> fun fun.
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[06:23:01] <alex4nder> hey
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[07:01:17] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:09:03] <bostjan_2> Hello everyone. I have a question about camview, as i cant get axis values into camera window. I have installed camview, camunits yes, but i havent install camunits-plugins-emc as it wants to deinstall linuxcnc and install emc2.. How to solve it??
[09:10:56] <r00t4rd3d> i wonder if they have a github with the latest branch that isnt dependent on emc2
[09:11:23] <bostjan_2> Im not so familiar with linux, im learning..
[09:11:33] <r00t4rd3d> oh well nvm then :)
[09:13:28] <r00t4rd3d> im sure someone knows a simple work around
[09:17:39] <r00t4rd3d> you probably would not know the difference between emc2 or linuxcnc besides the name change anyway
[09:18:04] <r00t4rd3d> if your new
[09:23:05] <archivist> the package just probably does not know new name so install manually or edit package setup(dunno how one does that)
[09:29:59] <alex_joni> bostjan_2: still around?
[09:30:48] <bostjan_2> alex_joni: im here..
[09:31:14] <alex_joni> seems psha is aware of the issue (he built the camview package)
[09:32:00] <bostjan_2> i will wait..
[09:32:27] <bostjan_2> Otherwise, it is a excellent tool..
[09:32:30] <r00t4rd3d> http://code.google.com/p/camunits/downloads/list
[09:32:38] <r00t4rd3d> has not been updated since 2010
[09:34:58] <bostjan_2> camunits-plugins-emc is the package from Snaptic that i didnt install..
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[10:11:21] <bostjan_2> Can maybie psha help me??
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[10:29:29] <alex_joni> psha[work] might
[10:30:42] <psha[work]> ?
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[10:37:45] <bostjan_2> Psha hello! Sorry to ask you, but im unable to install camview-plugins-emc on linuxcnc2.5, as it wants to install emc2...
[10:39:53] <r00t4rd3d> bostjan_2, its still early in the US
[10:40:07] <r00t4rd3d> 630 am eastern time
[10:40:33] <r00t4rd3d> not many alive at this point
[10:41:14] <r00t4rd3d> you got to wait 3-4 more hours
[10:41:46] <r00t4rd3d> post on the cnczone.com forums too
[10:42:58] <psha[work]> r00t4rd3d: i'm not in uS :)
[10:43:09] <psha[work]> bostjan_2: yea, fixed packages are on my todo list
[10:43:32] <psha[work]> as a quick workaround you may download package, unpack it and fix dep field in control file
[10:44:24] <alex_joni> dpkg -x = extract
[10:45:47] <bostjan_2> psha, where are you from ??
[10:46:35] <psha[work]> russia
[10:48:30] <bostjan_2> UFFF !!! fix dep field? dependency? in control file? what is the name of file??
[10:49:25] <bostjan_2> alex_joni: what means dpkg -x=extract
[10:51:09] <bostjan_2> r00t4rd3d: Behind us or in front of us?? ;)
[10:55:09] <psha[work]> hm, wait a bit
[10:57:40] <psha[work]> try http://psha.org.ru/tmp/camunits-plugins-emc-fixed.deb
[11:03:43] <bostjan_2> it has installed. So, now should i do other settings or there should be already labels in the camera window??
[11:04:35] <psha[work]> consult docs :)
[11:04:39] <psha[work]> i dont' remember
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[11:07:26] <bostjan_2> Thanks psha!!
[11:07:30] <bostjan_2> I will..
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[11:13:23] <skunkworks__> alex_joni: what was the issue you fixed with your hp color laserjet?
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[11:23:15] <skunkworks__> (2605)
[11:25:11] * jthornton thinks I need to size nine boot the shop computer with all those nicks
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[11:32:19] <skunkworks__> heh
[11:43:59] <alex_joni> skunkworks__: it started not printing magenta
[11:44:16] <alex_joni> inside the laser unit there's a mirror facing up which collects dust
[11:44:20] <alex_joni> bad design
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[12:01:52] <skunkworks__> alex_joni: did you have directions? ours started printing a light blue ;)
[12:02:32] <skunkworks__> bbl
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[12:31:03] <frallzor> ahoy hoy
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[12:59:55] <Jymmm> http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2012/05/man-buys-out-local-k-mart-donates-everything-to-charity/1#.T7ZGd79qP1L
[13:00:55] <ScribbleJ> That'as fucked up
[13:01:40] <ScribbleJ> If you're going to donate $200k to charity there's probably much better ways than doing it by lining K-mart's pockets with money. I bet that place was full of stuff the charity didn't need or want.
[13:06:03] <frallzor> At least he knows what the money goes too
[13:06:13] <frallzor> I wouldnt trust any charity with 200k
[13:06:56] <Jymmm> I think I'd trust the Salvation Army with 200k
[13:07:13] <Jymmm> maybe United Way as well
[13:08:34] <frallzor> I would rather do good my own way with the money =)
[13:09:14] <Jymmm> frallzor: distillery?
[13:17:22] <frallzor> booze is a solution? =P
[13:17:43] <Jymmm> Well, could be, if it's a business.
[13:23:15] <Jymmm> frallzor: Almost all things of indulgence have been very profitable, ever during the worse of times.
[13:24:21] <Jymmm> boose has financed wars over the centuries, drugs, even chocolate was profitable during the depression
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[16:07:20] <jdhNC> does anyone see a problem with drilling out mesa daughterboard holes to fit #6 bolts?
[16:08:58] <Jymmm> You would risk fubaring a pcb instead of getting smaller screws?
[16:09:09] <Tom_itx> not unless it got into the copper
[16:09:16] <Tom_itx> Jymmm sure
[16:09:37] <Tom_itx> jdhNC use 4-40
[16:10:14] <jdhNC> there is a lot of room around that hole
[16:10:29] <tom3p> 3.5" bay floppy (not usb ) not recognized on linuxcnc live cd install. is this common? not seen in lshw. tried 5 drives, 2cables, 2 computers
[16:10:31] <Tom_itx> how many inner layers would you screw up?
[16:10:52] <jdhNC> not likely any
[16:10:58] <jdhNC> but...
[16:11:15] <Tom_itx> i think it may void any hope of warranty
[16:11:24] <jdhNC> tom3p: do people still use those?
[16:11:39] <Jymmm> tom3p: Is it enabled in BIOS?
[16:11:54] <jdhNC> dmesg |grep fd ?
[16:12:40] <tom3p> yes in bios, yes still used ( primarily to move stuff off of them onto newer media )
[16:13:08] <tom3p> not found in dmesg ( outside of numeric xxxxfdxxxx addreses )
[16:13:51] <jdhNC> I'm making a plexi mounting plate for the 7i43/37/47 with a 1/8" end mill. Too big for 4-40. Guess I could just kiss those holes then hand drill
[16:14:47] <Jymmm> tom3p: Does it work in DOS or fro a LiveCD (maybe other than Linuxcnc, such as knoppix)
[16:15:23] <tom3p> Jymm, will try a live cd & no dos on these 2 boxes
[16:15:23] <Jymmm> other than ubuntu based primarily
[16:15:37] <Jymmm> tom3p: or DOS floppy
[16:16:23] <tom3p> i read that it was necc to "the floppy on Lucid works just fine provided you downgrade udisks from 1.0.1-1ubuntu1 to 1.01-1build1."
[16:17:23] <tom3p> Jymm, no dos floppys, trying to get rid of mac floppies and ST floppies ( both weirdo but tests are done with blank DS HiD sony disks )
[16:18:22] <Jymmm> tom3p: So you have no DOS formatted floppies at all? Not even one?
[16:19:53] <tom3p> correct, cant find one ( thers a chance that one of a few hundred ST floppies is MSDOS fmt, as it was one of a load of possible formats accepted )
[16:20:23] <tom3p> i could get an image and write it :) if i could get the drive recognized :)
[16:20:25] <jdhNC> when you reboot, does the floppy light come on and seek?
[16:21:11] <jdhNC> you can get a freedos usb boot image
[16:21:59] <tom3p> no i dont see that happen ( your right about that seek on boot thingy, i'll check if bios still has that as option) and no usb drive, these are real drives 2 heads
[16:23:01] <jdhNC> I mean you can burn a freedos image on a usb stick and boot that... see if the floppy is seen from there.
[16:23:38] <jdhNC> or, give up and toss the anachronistic floppies. (or get a USB one)
[16:24:11] <tom3p> ah, ok, unetbootlin to tjhe rescue, thx ( give up? not an option JWayne :)
[16:24:22] <Jymmm> usb fdd may not resolve anything
[16:25:00] <tom3p> i think jd said to boot a dos from a usb stick and see if the hdwr floppy was alive
[16:25:01] <Jymmm> fdd is dead simple, I'd check BIOS settings and version
[16:25:53] <Jymmm> Even if a mobo cmos was coruppted, a fdd STILL works for recovery, so check bios again
[16:26:06] <Jymmm> enabled, configured, legacy etc
[16:26:15] <tom3p> thats an interesting point, the lshw said the bios capabilities include int13floppy360,720,1200,2800 it skipped 1440 ! what i want
[16:27:05] <tom3p> will look more into bios, but im 'sure' it was enabled and even 1.4meg chosen
[16:27:09] <tom3p> thx
[16:27:14] <Jymmm> I'd reset the mobo cmos to compatability mode.
[16:27:34] <tom3p> good thought thx
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[16:35:50] <Jymmm> tom3p: make sure the power is connected to the fdd too
[16:36:16] <tom3p> :) and the cable is on pin 1 to pin 1
[16:36:33] <Jymmm> tom3p: the ribbon cable?
[16:37:33] <Jymmm> tom3p: Drive A is the second connector, Drive B is the end connector. Make sure both are enabled in BIOS
[16:37:52] <Jymmm> tom3p: If the ribbon cable is reversed, the LED never turns off =)
[16:38:02] <jdhNC> and it destroys the floppy in the drive.
[16:38:15] <Jymmm> jdhNC: never
[16:38:35] <jdhNC> always did for me, haven't done it in 15+ years though.
[16:39:52] <Jymmm> I've never had that ever, and I still use 3.5 and have working 5.25 too =)
[16:40:22] <frallzoran> gosh! I'b bored to hell
[16:40:39] <frallzoran> dress me up and call me Alice
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[16:40:46] <tom3p> right, rev cable is constant led, i remember some of this stuff, and the 4 pin power is keyed. i gotta ride back to the box and try some of this
[16:40:47] <jdhNC> hi alice, busy later?
[16:41:20] <Jymmm> frallzor: Fine, make me black powered that doesn't require an ATF permit =)
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[16:46:47] <frallzor> finally!
[16:50:51] <tom3p> Jymm black powder DIY, any use? http://www.musketeer.ch/blackpowder/recipe.html
[16:51:46] <Jymmm> tom3p: I have to get around the use of "black powder" is the issue, as it's an "explosive"
[16:53:39] <tom3p> fwiw: "Pyrodex is the original BP substitute. It is essentially BP modified so it can be shipped and not classified as an explosive" http://www.curtrich.com/bpsubsdummies.html
[16:53:53] <Jymmm> tom3p: I just hae nfc on chemistry is all, I'm just assuming the lack of an oxidizer no longer makes it defined as "black powder"
[16:54:34] <tom3p> thx for all the help, i'll go try the advice now, good luck on the black powder
[16:54:55] <Jymmm> =)
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[17:00:38] <Connor> jdhNC: Who did you say had NGCGUI files ?
[17:01:54] <jdhNC> someone else did.
[17:02:15] <jdhNC> I just said "someone here does", but I don't recall who.
[17:02:21] <Connor> oh
[17:02:40] <roycroft> so, assuming the motor ratings are appropriate for my mill (and if i install ball screws they will be), is this a good deal? :
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[17:02:44] <roycroft> http://tinyurl.com/84zqkdt
[17:02:52] <roycroft> it seems like it to me
[17:03:03] <jdhNC> for an X3? I'd go bigger.
[17:03:10] <frallzor> really?
[17:03:12] <Connor> um No.
[17:03:16] <roycroft> with ball screws?
[17:03:40] <roycroft> folks talk about 270 oz/in motors for x3 conversions all the time
[17:03:45] <Connor> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/stepper-nema23-3-axis-kits/cnc-stepper-motor-3-axis-kit-1
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[17:04:01] <Connor> is what I'm using on my 704 - Direct Drive.
[17:04:28] <roycroft> those are some big motors
[17:04:38] <Connor> Yup. :)
[17:04:40] <IchGuckLive> the automotion ones have better performance and 300rpm the ones in the decko kit only 150 rpm at may tourch
[17:04:54] <jdhNC> I have some KL6050 drives I'll sell cheapish!
[17:04:57] <Connor> Oh. and yours doesn't have the PSU either.. that one I linked does.
[17:05:49] <Connor> roycroft: Check their other kits out too.. have a few smaller ones...
[17:05:52] * roycroft is still only 70% sure of what he wants/needs, but has money to start purchasing stuff now
[17:05:57] <jdhNC> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/stepper-nema23-3-axis-kits/cnc-stepper-motor-3-axis-kit-4
[17:06:03] <roycroft> i want to be 100% sure soon :)
[17:06:30] <roycroft> i do want 4 axis capability from the get-go, even though i'll only be using 3 axes initially
[17:06:34] <Connor> I found that my Z can move pretty fast.. but, it's not Ball screws yet.
[17:06:48] <Connor> roycroft: That's just adding another driver..
[17:06:51] <roycroft> a rotary table is not too far in my future
[17:07:11] <roycroft> and i still haven't decided whether to go direct drive or offset the motors
[17:07:20] <jdhNC> I haven't done over 51IPM on my Z ballscrew yet. Still only have it hooked up to a tiny xylotex 24v driver
[17:07:27] <IchGuckLive> ofset via timebelt
[17:07:44] <roycroft> on the z i am pretty sure i want to offset, so i don't have to put a giant motor up there
[17:07:45] <Connor> I can't speak to the X3.. I did direct drive..
[17:08:04] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: try to go with 48V thats the best performance
[17:08:18] <roycroft> the x3 only has one handcrank on the x axis, so direct drive on the other end would be easy if i wanted to keep the ability to operate manually
[17:08:22] <Connor> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TF8mByQ3F-4
[17:08:26] <roycroft> y is the only real decision to make
[17:08:33] <jdhNC> the cncfusion x3 kit would be a good source of inspiration.
[17:08:35] <roycroft> yeah, i was planning on 48v
[17:08:48] <IchGuckLive> on my opinion if you got space do etch axis one driver as leadshine M542-M882
[17:09:17] <IchGuckLive> you will be upset with the gecko on 4Axis
[17:09:30] <roycroft> so the one area where i'm really in the dark still is the controller
[17:09:49] <Connor> the controller is a matched to the stepper.
[17:09:52] <roycroft> i have two candidate computers for operating the mill, and both have a lot of jitter
[17:10:00] <IchGuckLive> if you got money go for the mesa kit
[17:10:04] <Connor> oH, you mean the PC.
[17:10:07] <IchGuckLive> its 199USD
[17:10:18] <roycroft> no, i mean the motor controller
[17:10:40] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: IBM A50 is 50USD at 5000 Jitter
[17:10:42] <roycroft> someone here mentioned that a computer with a lot of jitter can still work if i use a more intelligent controller
[17:10:51] <Connor> okay, then yea.. the stepper drivers are matched to the stepper.. you need one that can handle the amps/volts for the stepper.
[17:10:53] <roycroft> and recommended the gecko
[17:11:07] <Connor> Umm. No.
[17:11:15] <Connor> I don't think the Gecko helps with that..
[17:11:33] <Connor> I know Mach3 uses something called a Smooth Stepper (USB based micro controller)
[17:11:38] <Connor> to "fix" that issue.
[17:11:43] <roycroft> well if that was bogus advise, or if i misinterpreted it, that would account for why i'm still utterly confused on that topic
[17:11:53] <IchGuckLive> this A50 is al over the place with 3Ghz and 1GB Ram 80GB HDD its the perfect ÜPC
[17:11:54] <Connor> I think MESA helps with that.
[17:12:15] <Connor> MESA generates the drive train pulses, thus, offloading that from the CPU.
[17:12:42] <Connor> Gecko != MESA . Gecko is parport driven.
[17:12:52] <roycroft> ok
[17:13:04] <Connor> although, it could be driven via MESA.. It's just the motor controllers..
[17:13:24] <Connor> parport uses a breakout board. (which btw, that kit I linked has one)
[17:13:49] <IchGuckLive> roy therfor we ask you to go for seperate parts in all part then you are free of futher changes
[17:14:03] <roycroft> do the breakout boards usually use optoisolators?
[17:14:13] <roycroft> if not, is it advisable to get one that does?
[17:14:15] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: yes
[17:14:29] <Connor> roycroft: Typically yes.. They're a FEW that are just basic Break outs..
[17:14:44] <roycroft> i know that bobs are not alwasy necessary
[17:14:55] <IchGuckLive> the signal goes PCI->parport->74HC14->opto1->opto2
[17:15:01] <Connor> C10 is the place to start.
[17:15:01] <roycroft> but if they use optoisolators that's reason enough to use one
[17:15:14] <IchGuckLive> in mesa its cust pci -> driver
[17:15:29] * roycroft is looking at the mesa website now
[17:15:48] <IchGuckLive> roy 5i25+7i76
[17:16:00] <IchGuckLive> there is a kit
[17:16:19] <IchGuckLive> anything io dautercards
[17:16:38] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Isn't that a bit over kill for a 3 or 4 axis stepper setup? If he was doing servo's I could see it..
[17:17:12] <Connor> My little $180.00 ATOM PC with BOB has more than enough umph to handle the job.
[17:17:13] <IchGuckLive> agree but he wants to build a precise and steploas one
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[17:18:17] <Connor> what website for mesa ?
[17:18:24] <Connor> I've not even looked into them..
[17:18:37] <IchGuckLive> as he builds his first Router he is in a go/nogo part
[17:19:26] <IchGuckLive> for a chees on pcb it woudt be ZEN TB6560 and all is done by 36Dollar it works fine
[17:19:55] <IchGuckLive> 3 steppers from Epson at 2,1Nm for 12USD each
[17:19:58] <Connor> Oh god no. those things stink.
[17:20:12] <IchGuckLive> as you say
[17:20:18] <IchGuckLive> it works
[17:20:29] <Connor> I have one I'm using for my router.. I had to do some component level modifications to get it to work nice.
[17:20:35] <roycroft> to clarify, i've moved from building a router to doing a cnc retrofit on my x3 mill
[17:20:52] <IchGuckLive> my 5Axis foam http://mechmo.de/styrocut.html runs on this
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[17:21:18] <IchGuckLive> cheep and for foam its so cool
[17:21:41] <roycroft> and i haven't had time to diagnose the jitter problems i'm having
[17:21:53] <IchGuckLive> tiny case 250x250x96mm all fits in
[17:22:15] <roycroft> the machine i prefer to use is a 1u server, dual xeon 2.8GHz, 4GB of ram, and some kind of ati framebuffer
[17:22:38] <Connor> dual core not going to do anything for you.
[17:22:50] <roycroft> it's what it is
[17:23:08] <roycroft> i'm not saying i'll need nor even use all the capability of the machine
[17:23:16] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: what jitter you got
[17:23:20] <roycroft> just pointing out that the hardware specs are such that it should work
[17:23:25] <roycroft> i don't recall, but it was really high
[17:23:31] <roycroft> it's been a couple weeks since i ran a jitter test
[17:23:37] <roycroft> i'll do so again when i'm at home
[17:23:42] <roycroft> 350k or so, perhaps
[17:23:43] <Connor> turn off hyper threading.
[17:23:47] <roycroft> that number comes to mind
[17:23:57] <Connor> turn off wake on lan.
[17:24:04] <Connor> turn off power management crap.
[17:24:08] <roycroft> yeah, i haven't done any of that stuff
[17:24:10] <IchGuckLive> i think you can manage below 50k for shure
[17:24:15] <djdelorie> dual core lets you run RTAI on one core, and everything else on the other
[17:24:37] <roycroft> the machine also doesn't have a parallel port, but there is one expansion slot
[17:24:45] <roycroft> so i can add what i need to add
[17:24:49] <Connor> roycroft: That's better anyway.
[17:25:02] <roycroft> i have a 19" rack cabinet that's about a meter high
[17:25:04] <Connor> use cheap parport expansion card.
[17:25:16] <roycroft> i want to house the computer, power supplies, and controller in that
[17:25:25] <roycroft> and still have some room to store tooling, etc.
[17:25:46] <roycroft> and that's why i prefer to use that particular machine
[17:25:49] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/enclosure.JPG
[17:26:01] <roycroft> plus, i have about a dozen of those machines, so if it dies it would be easy to replace
[17:26:12] <roycroft> the main drawback is that it's pata only - no sata
[17:26:12] <Connor> My enclosure. Have room for 3 more drivers.. can stack the BOB's on top.. and have the drive bays too if I need them.
[17:26:19] <jdhNC> I got a 20x20 enclosure I was hoping to also put the computer in, but I don't think it will fit.
[17:26:25] <roycroft> but my thought was to get a 64GB pata ssd for it
[17:26:38] <Connor> Mines got a 60Db SATA.
[17:26:42] <Connor> SSD.
[17:27:25] <roycroft> i'll put some casters on the rack cabinet
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[17:27:40] <IchGuckLive> Connoris this the atom ?
[17:27:45] <roycroft> make it easy to move around
[17:27:49] <Connor> IchGuckLive: Yea
[17:28:09] <Connor> Mini-ITX in a standard ATX 4U rackmount case.
[17:30:02] <IchGuckLive> BOB come from automation ?
[17:30:05] <Connor> Were do people in US buy their MESA from ?
[17:30:22] <Connor> IchGuckLive: That's were I got it.. but, it's the C10 from CNC4PC.com
[17:30:35] <andypugh> Connor: Buy direct from Mesa.
[17:30:45] <Connor> mesanet.com ?
[17:30:50] <andypugh> Yes
[17:30:57] <Connor> The website looks like it's from the 90's
[17:31:02] <IchGuckLive> Connorpcw is here in the forum
[17:31:05] <jdhNC> indeed.
[17:31:19] <andypugh> Yeah, and you need to use the phone number to order. Very quaint.
[17:31:21] <jdhNC> Connor: hit them up for some free product for a decent site.
[17:31:37] <jdhNC> I don't think 'we' are their target market.
[17:31:45] <andypugh> I don't know why they don't list on eBay / Amazon
[17:31:58] <jdhNC> amazon would be easy
[17:31:58] <Connor> Who else uses them ?
[17:32:08] <andypugh> LinuxCNC is about 10% of their market, I believe.
[17:32:31] <jdhNC> have to raise prices to make up for amazon$, but I'd pay a few $ more to be able to order spontaneously
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[17:32:57] <IchGuckLive> jdhNC: agree
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[17:33:14] <IchGuckLive> i need to order over the US forces from germany to get the part
[17:33:36] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: There is a shop in germany that sells them.
[17:33:43] <andypugh> Or is it Austria?
[17:34:06] <IchGuckLive> austria but double the price
[17:34:07] <jdhNC> or you could just buy 5 of each good item for the bulk discount price and ebay the rest.
[17:34:48] <andypugh> Also cz, for pretty much the Mesa price: http://www.duzi.cz/shop_cnc/index.php?main_page=index&language=cz
[17:35:07] <roycroft> my gf sells her books on amazon
[17:35:11] <roycroft> they take 60% of gross
[17:35:15] <roycroft> it's obscene
[17:35:58] <roycroft> they handle the orders directly, though
[17:36:01] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: I think the retrofit-plus.at price is about the same after import duties and taxes are considerd.
[17:36:13] <roycroft> i don't know what their take is if she processed individual orders
[17:36:59] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: not to germany
[17:37:20] <andypugh> You don't need to pay import duties from the US to DE?
[17:37:34] <IchGuckLive> 65%
[17:38:03] <jdhNC> I need some 50pin cables, or at least connectors.
[17:38:14] <ReadError> roycroft: they publish it too?
[17:38:16] <andypugh> There should be no import duty inside the EU, so that makes the retrofit / duzi prices look OK, I think.
[17:38:49] <IchGuckLive> 38% from austria
[17:39:05] <IchGuckLive> if you are over 25USD
[17:39:45] <andypugh> Ah. Well, it's only a short drive to .at or .cz
[17:40:05] <IchGuckLive> yes i did that on LIPO
[17:41:55] <Connor> jdhNC: Old SCSI cables. :)
[17:43:15] <IchGuckLive> roycroft: you will get a nice and good mill
[17:43:38] <IchGuckLive> B) :D O.O
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[17:44:44] * frallzor updates his DIY wishlist with a vacuum former
[17:44:56] <andypugh> IchGuckLive: retrofit-plus prices seem to include VAT, whereas duzi seems not to.
[17:45:09] <IchGuckLive> nice frallzor
[17:45:37] <frallzor> gotta have one of those =)
[17:45:38] <IchGuckLive> the material below the carpet is best for this doing and cheep also
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[17:46:33] <jdhNC> connor: I have some long ones, I need a few that are only a couple inches long.
[17:47:11] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_nkw=vacuum+former
[17:48:32] <frallzor> a wee bit on the small side considering what I had in mind =)
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[17:51:30] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: here is the wish to build in pictures http://www.rcf-marienheide.de/frames.html?/mod_techniken/tiefziehen.html
[17:53:26] <IchGuckLive> kingston vacuform USA
[17:55:07] <Tom_itx> how about a 17' canoe vacuum form?
[17:55:33] <frallzor> that would be a bit too large for me =P
[17:56:59] <IchGuckLive> best part is to mill the wood block
[17:57:24] <IchGuckLive> or go for silikat necuron 800
[17:57:36] <IchGuckLive> this speeds up the miling
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[17:58:48] <frallzor> is that like cibatool?
[17:59:24] <frallzor> polyurethane board
[17:59:51] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:00:41] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: goggle picture Necuron
[18:01:17] <frallzor> seems like what I use for models, the version I get "locally" is called renshape
[18:01:45] <IchGuckLive> it has many names around the world
[18:01:50] <frallzor> yup
[18:02:11] <frallzor> I currently have Necuron 480
[18:02:16] <frallzor> pretty nice
[18:02:18] <IchGuckLive> cheek 5USD per KG
[18:02:44] <andypugh> Wax is re-usable: http://www.techsoft.co.uk/products/materials/milling-routing/modelling-wax.asp
[18:03:29] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: for premolding the best
[18:03:41] <IchGuckLive> but you need a postiv part
[18:04:34] <IchGuckLive> then fill in the tooth doctors material
[18:04:39] <andypugh> That link was to machinable wax.
[18:04:53] <frallzor> at one time in my life I bought a few kilos of kolb modelling clay, wonder when I'll use it =P
[18:05:29] <IchGuckLive> it might be hard as steel as you turn the case
[18:05:58] <frallzor> at least it wont get old since its oilbased =)
[18:06:05] <IchGuckLive> or pouder dry to get mixed befor use
[18:07:42] <Connor> Tom_itx: I built my own little vacuum former.. it's small.
[18:08:14] <IchGuckLive> Connor and make money at the local RC dealer
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[18:10:22] <Connor> Not big enough for RC chassis.. It's only big enough to do around 8.5" x 11" little bit bigger..
[18:10:40] <Connor> I could do canopy's for airplanes..
[18:11:03] <IchGuckLive> thats what the money comes in
[18:11:07] <frallzor> maybe molds for medium sized latex sextoys too?
[18:11:39] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: factory store and testing O.O
[18:11:54] <Connor> frallzor: Umm No.
[18:11:59] <frallzor> =(
[18:12:45] <Connor> Yea, The idea was to use the router to make bucks/forms for the vacuum former..
[18:12:52] <IchGuckLive> frallzor: this maret is spamt all over the USA
[18:12:53] <Connor> for my roubots
[18:13:29] <IchGuckLive> let them look a bit spacy
[18:13:38] <Connor> robots...
[18:13:48] <IchGuckLive> Nerds like that shine
[18:15:55] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[18:27:01] <frallzor> bah I need to make something now just to try the PP JT-Shop helped me with
[18:35:31] <Connor> JT-Shop: You around ?
[18:37:22] <Connor> and can anyone give a little more explanation on G76 in regards to the Drive line and Thread peak and touching off appropriately..
[18:37:44] <Connor> Say, I wanna do a 1/4"-20 thread..
[18:39:11] <mrsun> hmm, my "axises" on the lathe moves when i do deep cuts, can this be corrected by just tightening the gibs? :)
[18:42:59] <andypugh> Connor: I am never sure how to touch-off for a thread, as the thread peaks are always below nominal diameter, but the tool has a radius too.
[18:43:44] <andypugh> I always seem to end up re-cutting the thread with steadily increasing depth until it works..
[18:44:18] <Connor> You would think you could touch off on the nominal diameter and go from there..
[18:44:19] <andypugh> You probably need to draw an accurate picture of the thread, allowing for rounding and fit.
[18:46:52] <archivist> Connor, the example g76 is a 1/4 20 thread
[18:47:24] <archivist> but it gouges a bit needs smaller infeed steps
[18:52:53] <archivist> I did a nice blind internal thread the other week, same as andy re run with increasing depth till it fitted
[18:54:32] <archivist> the part that is unnerving for a user used to manual threading is the lack of safety groove need
[18:55:12] <ds3> wow... internal blind threading?!
[18:55:26] <ds3> how many threading tools was used?
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[18:56:36] <archivist> only one
[18:56:57] <ds3> what size/pitch?
[18:57:26] <archivist> 11 tpi 3/4bsp parallel
[18:57:48] <ds3> nice
[18:57:52] <frallzor> I love my CAM-software, claims there is a tool clash when just pluning the tool
[18:57:56] <frallzor> it fools me
[18:57:59] <ds3> it is unnerving enough doing external threads
[18:58:55] <archivist> I was cutting air modding the code to get it deeper then adjusting the dia ,rinse repeat
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[19:08:53] <archivist> ds3, http://www.collection.archivist.info/archive/DJCPD/PD/2012/2012_05_06_Leawood/IMG_1240.JPG
[19:09:50] <andypugh> You know you can buy union nuts?
[19:10:44] <archivist> this is for the 1900's pipe work so wanted it to match ish
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[19:10:48] <ds3> you got chuck jaw marks
[19:10:49] <ds3> ;)
[19:11:59] <archivist> I used some brass that already was marked, I held it on a boss that I parted off
[19:12:25] <ds3> regardless, the internal threads are quite impressive
[19:13:09] <archivist> I was rather happy with the threading, specially as it is on a tiny starturn lathe
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[19:14:22] <ds3> that's from the same folks who make the Orac, right?
[19:14:38] <archivist> yes
[19:15:04] <ds3> what's your technique? snap both the half nut and the cross feed or sudden reversal of the spindle?
[19:15:18] <andypugh> CNC...
[19:15:28] <ds3> CNC is cheating :P
[19:15:30] <archivist> sit back and watch :)
[19:15:40] <ds3> oh... thought it was manual
[19:15:42] <ds3> nevermind :P
[19:15:56] <ds3> no point in a safety groove for CNC
[19:16:31] <andypugh> I think you want #linuxmanualmachining
[19:16:37] <archivist> I use safety grooves on the Sothbend
[19:16:48] <archivist> Southbeng
[19:16:59] <andypugh> 3rd time lucky?
[19:17:22] <ds3> depending on the conversion, some CNC lathes can be operated in pure manual mode. esp if it lacks an encoded spindle
[19:17:23] <archivist> Southbend third time lucky (wait for me to manage to spell that too)
[19:21:12] <andypugh> Oh, what a pain. It turns out that if you a) have a sserial config and b) have more than 1 port and c) have more than one autoconf card on the second port then it doesn't work properly. Clearly my testing wasn't exhaustive enough.
[19:24:25] <mrsun> if i would replace the leadscrew on my lathe which has to have the 100/127 gear to do metric thread with a metric leadscrew of pitch 2mm, could i just remove the 127/100 gear and use the geartrain without it then ? :)
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[19:25:54] <archivist> may need to get some gears to get the pitches you need
[19:25:57] <andypugh> Yes. But it would be more sensible to either CNC it, or replace the geartrain with encoder + stepper and do the gearing electronically.
[19:26:36] <tjb1> Is it normal for tungsten to burn away at a higher amperage
[19:27:33] <andypugh> TIG?
[19:27:43] <tjb1> yep
[19:28:01] <tjb1> just got it, gonna go find out what size the tungsten is but I think I need a bigger, its burning it away around 130 amps
[19:28:02] <archivist> do you have the correct gas amount
[19:28:06] <andypugh> I think it probably means the tungsten is too small for the current.
[19:28:09] <tjb1> 17 cfm
[19:28:23] <tjb1> pure argon
[19:28:49] <mrsun> andypugh, yeah im thinking of the encoder/stepper combo
[19:28:54] <mrsun> but requires yet another computer :/
[19:29:07] <mrsun> i guess there is no firmware for somehing like arduino to do it? =)
[19:29:21] <andypugh> Not necessarily a computer. Maybe an Arduino or similar.
[19:30:13] <mrsun> yeah but requires some linear interpolation etc for stepping between encoder pulses also if moving fast etc? :)
[19:30:21] <tjb1> its 3/32 tungsten
[19:30:21] <tjb1> red
[19:30:43] <tjb1> lincoln manual says 3/32 can handle max amperage on DC -
[19:31:15] <andypugh> mrsun: http://www.autoartisans.com/ELS/
[19:31:17] <mrsun> and how would it work to engage at the right place etc for the half nut when using that insted? :)
[19:32:13] <tjb1> can you use 1/8 tungsten on DC -? manual just has an X in the amperage column
[19:32:53] <Connor> safety groove ?
[19:33:57] <archivist> Connor, when manual threading one leave a groove for the threading tool at the end of the thread where you drop the leadscrew nut
[19:34:23] <Connor> oh. ok
[19:35:15] <tjb1> Anyone got an idea on the tig issue?
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[19:37:00] <roycroft> what tig issue?
[19:37:00] <andypugh> tjb1: Is red tungsten right for the job?
[19:37:14] <tjb1> 2% thoriated
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[19:38:29] <roycroft> what are you welding, tjb1?
[19:38:40] <tjb1> 3/16 steel pipe
[19:39:03] <tjb1> Im waiting on chem sharp to get here, could grinding it with an abrasive wheel be the problem?
[19:39:10] <tjb1> Was just excited to try it out...
[19:40:49] <roycroft> i use lanthanated electrodes for steel, myself
[19:41:07] <roycroft> a 1.5% lanthanated electrode is supposed to have similar characteristics to 2% thoriated
[19:42:28] <tjb1> this is just what came with it
[19:42:46] <tjb1> I'm gonna go get a 1/8 tungsten
[19:42:53] <roycroft> if you're using a grinding wheel that is used for other things besides your electrodes you are probably contaminating the electrodes
[19:43:03] <tjb1> yeah
[19:43:13] <tjb1> I couldn't wait for chem sharp :)
[19:43:14] <roycroft> i got a circular saw sharpener at hf on sale for like $25
[19:43:22] <roycroft> it comes with a disc that is diamon-encrusted
[19:43:25] <roycroft> diamond
[19:43:32] <roycroft> i took off the blade holding jig and all that crap
[19:43:42] <roycroft> and made a little jig to hold an electrode
[19:43:50] <tjb1> The dedicated sharpeners are ridiculously expensive
[19:43:52] <roycroft> i use it exclusively for tig electrodes
[19:44:15] <tjb1> so contamination is most likely the issue?
[19:44:24] <roycroft> http://www.harborfreight.com/120-volt-circular-saw-blade-sharpener-96687.html
[19:44:27] <roycroft> that's what i have
[19:44:37] <roycroft> although i know i paid less than that
[19:44:51] <roycroft> i probably had a 20% off coupon to put on top of some kind of super sale price
[19:45:12] <roycroft> you should be able to make an electrode-holding jig in an hour or less for that
[19:45:24] <tjb1> I'm an hour from hf
[19:45:30] <tjb1> see how the chem sharp works first
[19:45:32] <roycroft> and i hope you're not grinding the things radially
[19:45:39] <tjb1> no, straight
[19:45:40] <JT-Shop> lol
[19:46:00] <roycroft> i would suspect contamination of the elecrode
[19:46:40] <tjb1> alright well i gotta head out, this damn place closes at 4:30...
[19:46:45] <tjb1> thanks everyone
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[20:12:51] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:13:07] -!- DJ9DJ has quit [Quit: bye]
[20:17:15] * frallzor is still quite bored to death
[20:17:25] <alex4nder> frallzor: how could you be
[20:17:53] <frallzor> How cant i
[20:17:59] <frallzor> *I even
[20:18:00] <djdelorie> frallzor: download the 80/20 catalog and design a web app to build 80/20 orders for custom-sized cnc tables :-)
[20:18:14] <alex4nder> djdelorie: yes
[20:18:17] <frallzor> thats your project ;) not mine
[20:18:22] <alex4nder> or fuck, just build me a webapp to design 80/20
[20:18:25] <alex4nder> period
[20:18:26] <djdelorie> you're bored, I'm swamped :-)
[20:18:27] <alex4nder> with a price quoter
[20:18:31] <frallzor> I was about to make a vacuum former
[20:18:32] <alex4nder> and BoM generator
[20:18:40] <alex4nder> and I'd like to be able to just order direct
[20:18:48] <frallzor> but realized the issues that allways seems to appear, no material
[20:25:36] <whaat> If understood right, to replace parallel port motion driver with a custom usb one have to replace emcmot process. But that seems like reinventing the wheel. Is there a way to get emcmot to provide plain position, velocity and accel interface for writing a custom controller driver ? Sorry if asked something already documented, but didnt find such a convenient interface on any of the documentation
[20:26:18] <alex4nder> whaat: yah, modify emcmot
[20:26:49] <alex4nder> the "problem" with the current arch is that emcmot needs to have a low-latency link with the motion control
[20:26:49] <djdelorie> the problem with usb is that emc is more precise than the usb protocol allows
[20:26:57] <andypugh> EMC motion assumes realtime. USB doen't do realtime
[20:27:04] <alex4nder> specifically, quick turnaround.
[20:27:15] -!- PCW has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[20:27:31] <cradek> now look, you scared pcw away
[20:27:33] <alex4nder> hah
[20:27:53] <alex4nder> I'm curious, has anyone written any isochronous USB jitter benchmarking tools for Linux?
[20:28:09] <alex4nder> (obviously requiring a 'loop-back' USB device)
[20:28:11] <whaat> Usb controller takes care of all poisoning and timing, so the new emcmot wouldn't even need realtime
[20:28:49] <cradek> whaat: you might want to dig in the mailing list archives. a thousand people have talked about this and a few have even tried it.
[20:28:56] <djdelorie> whaat: it's like trying to control a cnc machine by US post office letters. You never know when the STOP!STOP!STOP! command will get there.
[20:29:22] <alex4nder> whaat: well then you don't even really want emcmot.. you just want the g-code parser right?
[20:29:24] <cradek> it turns out you have to reinvent a lot more wheel than you first expect, and that way lies extreme suckage
[20:29:35] <alex4nder> and the UI
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[20:30:07] <andypugh> Instead of USB, look at the Ethernet port
[20:30:07] <alex4nder> what you get from emcmot (and friends) are the kins, joints, axes, etc.
[20:30:10] <whaat> Stop sWitch is also tied to the hardware . Will try searching the mailing list,
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[20:30:20] <djdelorie> based on the archives, though, the real-time thread "just" interprets the generated path, yes? couldn't the path be streamed to the usb device, just like it's currently streamed to the realtime threads?
[20:30:22] <alex4nder> if you don't need those things, you don't need the emc motion control.
[20:30:26] <archivist> alex4nder, dont think anyone has dared play with the isochronous mode yet
[20:30:44] <djdelorie> whaat: you may substutite GO!GO! or LEFT!RIGHT! if you want to be pedantic
[20:30:44] <alex4nder> archivist: gotcha
[20:31:39] <cradek> djdelorie: sure you could "just" queue it up for a second or so, but that delay will cost you probing, index homing, spindle synchronized motion, adaptive feed, immediate aborts and feed override changes, etc.
[20:31:56] <archivist> alex4nder, will need some level of technical toys to test and the ability to stop any new device causing a latency glitch
[20:31:57] <whaat> Actually controller isn't that smart, just handles moving and homing. Acceleration for example needs still to be calculated on pc
[20:32:03] <djdelorie> ah, there's a lot more bypassing the queue than I realized
[20:32:05] <alex4nder> archivist: yah, I have those toys.
[20:32:24] <cradek> there is no queue, all of the motion planner runs in realtime
[20:32:27] <skunkworks> so then you move that to hardware... And then you move some more to hardware.. THen you have linuxcnc in the hardware and should have just kept it in the computer ;)
[20:32:35] <archivist> alex4nder, I have some toys too, but not the time/finance
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[20:33:51] <alex4nder> skunkworks: or you just make linuxcnc's architecture able to target alternate RTOSes on uCs, including dynamic comp loading, etc.
[20:33:59] <alex4nder> and at that point, it's not really linuxcnc
[20:34:05] <alex4nder> it's *cnc
[20:34:08] <whaat> Ic, so there is realtime feedback needed from the controller
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[20:34:53] <djdelorie> alex4nder: no, just target linux on other uCs like embedded arm :-)
[20:35:08] <archivist> whaat, the controller is IN the pc and realtime feed back is from outside for servo systems
[20:35:22] <djdelorie> archivist: except for me :-)
[20:35:24] <andypugh> It _has_ been done. There is at least one machine out there using a Mesa 7i43 on the USB port.
[20:35:59] <cradek> yes and they lost all those things I listed above, and I think are bravely trying to reimplement them one at a time
[20:36:17] <alex4nder> djdelorie: that's fine, but you don't get the 600 nS context switch times.. but I'n conceded that's mostly bragging rights.
[20:36:34] * djdelorie wonders if usb480 is any better, or usb3, jitter-wise
[20:36:54] <whaat> Saw something about that mesa controller, but though it was just an usb breakout board
[20:36:55] <djdelorie> alex4nder: embedded arm is up to 1.5 GHz, on part with an intel Atom
[20:37:44] <andypugh> whaat: No, the Mesa boards move step generation and encoder counting etc into hardware.
[20:37:56] <alex4nder> djdelorie: sure,. I'm an embedded ARM kernel developer. :) but no current common RT Linux kernel will see context switches anywhere near a stripped down RTOS on a shitty little Cortex-M4.
[20:38:24] <djdelorie> well, yeah, but if you want linuxcnc "as is" with the GUI et al...
[20:38:24] <andypugh> But for LinuxCNC use the Mesa board need to be on the PCI bus or the parallel port
[20:38:28] <alex4nder> yah
[20:39:09] <alex4nder> djdelorie: but if you change the LinuxCNC arch slightly, and support offloading motion to your uCs running emcmot, you now have scalable axes support with hardware step generation, or servo control.
[20:39:15] <andypugh> whaat: Do you want a CNC machine, or an interesting USB project?
[20:39:26] <cradek> or an albatross
[20:39:29] <alex4nder> yah
[20:39:43] <alex4nder> focus on actually getting your mill working. :/
[20:39:54] <djdelorie> alex4nder: you're talking to someone who has six MCUs, one running Linux, controlling his *furnace*
[20:40:14] <cradek> ha wow
[20:40:16] <alex4nder> djdelorie: exactly, which is why I feel like I'm preaching to the choir. ;)
[20:40:21] <alex4nder> but my point stands
[20:40:24] <frallzoran> machine > computer > software my five cents =)
[20:40:30] <djdelorie> but yeah, next up (when time permits) is redoing the inner control loops in the servo controller
[20:40:39] * archivist trusts djdelorie to do whatever he want in software
[20:40:50] <djdelorie> if I can get those nailed down, everything else should just fall into place
[20:40:58] <alex4nder> djdelorie: oh look, you have a a fan club. ;)
[20:41:19] <djdelorie> heh. Reminds me of when I helped out the local FIRST team. "Build it however it works, we'll compensate in software."
[20:41:24] <whaat> Actually have already the usb controller, just was hoping to be able to connect it to emc2 instead of meeding a proprietary gcode interpreter for it
[20:41:42] <alex4nder> the USB controller is the least of your worries
[20:41:47] <alex4nder> get your machine working with a parallel port.
[20:41:57] <archivist> or most :)
[20:42:03] <alex4nder> haha
[20:42:05] <whaat> Sorry for the typos, am on a phone
[20:42:14] <alex4nder> whaat: where do you live?
[20:42:33] <whaat> Spain, why?
[20:42:39] <alex4nder> oh, well then shipping would be expensive
[20:42:50] <alex4nder> I have my first LinuxCNC machine that I want to give to someone local to me.
[20:43:01] <alex4nder> (it's a piece of shit, only useful in a pinch)
[20:43:21] <djdelorie> what's "local" to you?
[20:43:24] <andypugh> I feel the same about mine. But I reckon it would fetch £2000 on eBay.
[20:43:39] <whaat> Ic, thx anyways for the thought
[20:43:40] <alex4nder> djdelorie: 80 mile radius of santa barbara
[20:44:38] <andypugh> alex4nder: I wonder if Mesa could use it as a test mule?
[20:44:48] <PCW> andypugh: sorry I disappeared. set something on the keyboard and Windows shut down (didn't even ask if I really meant it)
[20:44:56] <fragalot> guys I've got a lil' question
[20:44:57] <alex4nder> andypugh: oh, I doubt it.. they have better hardware I'm sure
[20:45:17] <fragalot> i'm thinking of upgrading my spindle on my sable 2015 to either a kress 1050, or one of those chinese 1.5kW ER11 spindles
[20:45:29] <fragalot> both seem to work down to the same price, but the chinese one is a LOT more quiet...
[20:45:33] <fragalot> do you think I should risk it?
[20:46:00] <alex4nder> find a seller that is highly reviewed, especially one that will send you a video of it working before they mail it to you
[20:46:14] <archivist> fragalot, ask Loetmichel
[20:46:48] <fragalot> Loetmichel: kress 1050 vs chinese 1.5kW air cooled ER11 spindle .. Which one would you pick? i'm leaning towards the chinese one atm because of the low noise
[20:47:16] <andypugh> Are there any ER16?
[20:47:41] <frallzoran> choose after what you want to machine in the end
[20:47:49] <fragalot> yes there are
[20:47:52] <frallzoran> I wish I hade a kress too for Alu
[20:47:54] <frallzoran> *had
[20:48:06] <fragalot> frallzoran: generally PCB's but sometimes alu & brass
[20:48:51] <frallzoran> Go for a Suhner if you go the "kress route"
[20:49:08] <JT-Shop> dang it only took me 30 minutes to tie a surgens knot in this 0.007" diameter tippet
[20:49:13] <fragalot> frallzoran: I like the low-noise and external freq. control of the chinese one though
[20:49:44] <fragalot> the chinese one has a .02mm runout (wobble) on the collet though, not sure what the specs on the kress are on that regard
[20:51:25] <andypugh> Interesting: http://www.ebay.com/itm/220638581883 devices to screw on to an ER16 nose to hold bigger things.
[20:51:49] <fragalot> :D
[20:51:59] <fragalot> tbf I only said ER11 because I had no idea that was the collet size
[20:52:01] <andypugh> .02mm isn't a lot
[20:52:10] <fragalot> andypugh: indeed it isn't
[20:52:32] <fragalot> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1xu8xibI3w
[20:52:34] <frallzoran> It can be
[20:52:35] <fragalot> seems to run fairly quiet
[20:52:36] <roycroft> i'd like an r8 spindle with a belt-driven motor
[20:52:40] <frallzoran> but probably not
[20:52:53] <andypugh> r8 is too long.
[20:52:57] <roycroft> so i can use the main mill spindle to mount it, and not have to do some funky offset thing
[20:53:24] <roycroft> or a hs spindle that can fit in a standard collet, like a 1" collet
[20:54:14] <frallzoran> I think my spindles uses ER20 collets
[20:54:21] <frallzoran> *spindle even
[20:54:25] <fragalot> what does your average kress 1050 use?
[20:54:31] <fragalot> because I already have a few collets for that anyway :P
[20:54:38] <fragalot> (I just forgot the size)
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[20:56:39] <roycroft> i saw a project where someone made an r8 mount for a webcam, and used that to line up pcbs, but still had the hs spindle mounted off the side of the mill head
[20:56:51] <roycroft> so there was still some compensation that needed to be done
[20:57:07] <roycroft> it would be neat to mount the webcam, line things up, then swap the hs spindle in and go
[20:57:26] <alex4nder> roycroft: how do they compensate for the offset.. lensing?
[20:57:30] <alex4nder> with some digital shift?
[20:57:39] <roycroft> yeah, with a digital shift
[20:57:40] <andypugh> tool-table offset
[20:57:58] <andypugh> I have plans to make a BT30 webcam.
[20:58:10] <alex4nder> andypugh: well you have the lensing effect, it's not a straight linear offset.
[20:58:28] <alex4nder> I guess it could be so minor.
[20:58:48] <andypugh> It _ought_ to be a straight linear offset.
[20:59:28] * fragalot thinks he's going to go for the chinese spindle
[20:59:31] <andypugh> What do you mean by "lensing effect"
[20:59:54] <andypugh> fragalot: I think that using the right tool for the job is wise, and those are.
[21:00:11] <frallzoran> my spindle sounds like a 747 revving up
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[21:00:37] <archivist> alex4nder, you need a telecentric lens and well setup :)
[21:00:43] <frallzoran> Im glad I got hearing protection =P
[21:01:13] <alex4nder> archivist: yah, let me go find one in the garage. ;)
[21:01:41] <archivist> I dont like the price of them
[21:01:43] <andypugh> I am not sure you even need great setup. If you twist the spindle through 90 degrees the spindle axis is marked by the pixel that doesn't move.
[21:02:13] <alex4nder> andypugh: so it's not enough for most setups to care
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[21:03:04] <archivist> what size is the pixel :)
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[21:05:00] <fragalot> andypugh: so you agree? (going for ER16 as I need the 8mm size)
[21:05:09] <alex4nder> andypugh: I was thinking of doing something like that.. mounting a webcam on the taig spindle t-slot
[21:05:11] <fragalot> thanks for notifying me about that :P
[21:05:55] <andypugh> Are you sure that you don't need anything bigger than 8mm? There are lots of 1/2" router cutters
[21:06:38] <fragalot> andypugh: i'm european
[21:06:44] <fragalot> 8mm is default here
[21:06:59] <andypugh> So am I. and we still have lots of 1/4" and 1/2"
[21:07:09] <fragalot> I don't :P
[21:07:27] * alex4nder grabs some popcorn.
[21:07:29] <fragalot> I only do tiny things anyway, only reason I want 8mm is because I have some 8mm shaft mill bits
[21:07:36] <L84Supper> andypugh, http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/40422/?nlid=nldly&nld=2012-05-17 any input?
[21:08:04] <fragalot> andypugh: also, it's a sable 2015... it's not a very big machine :P
[21:08:05] <andypugh> There are ER20 ones too. I suspect that they might not have the speed you need. But it's worth checking
[21:08:53] * fragalot looks
[21:09:20] <fragalot> too big for my machine :/
[21:09:59] <fragalot> plus 3kW... that's waaay too much xD
[21:10:20] <andypugh> It's an interesting idea, but multple injections and EGR are normal in diesels.
[21:11:19] <andypugh> Something needs to change, though, as the number of bolt-on parts on a diesel now is stupid.
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[21:12:27] <andypugh> EGR, EGR cooler, EGRcooler bypass, intake throttle, turbo, turbo vane controller, intercooler, DPF, LNT, Cat….
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[21:13:26] <archivist> the old 3 cyl taxi engine had intake throttle waaaay back
[21:14:53] <andypugh> cradek: http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/french/component/kunena/?func=view&catid=41&id=20150&limit=6#20171
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[21:20:37] <whaat> Going afk a bit, thanks for the replies
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[21:23:11] <roycroft> so it occured to me that my previous comments about a hs r8 spindle were likely misinterpreted
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[21:23:20] <roycroft> i do not want a hs spindle that takes an r8 collet
[21:23:35] <roycroft> i want a hs spindle that fits in an r8 spindle
[21:23:45] <roycroft> so it mounts just like any other piece of tooling
[21:26:18] <PCW> Wonder if the simple z axis touch off that the guy on the forum wants could be done with two cheap MEMs accelerometers
[21:26:20] <PCW> and mechanics like the EDGE dial touch off but with one accelerometer mounted to the disk and one to the housing (for differential sensing)
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[21:29:13] <PCW> or maybe just a piezo disk. The tool touch has to have much higher frequency components than way vibrations
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[21:29:23] <andypugh> integrate accel by time (twice) to find out how far the tool has pushed it before tripping..
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[21:30:28] <PCW> those accelerometers are only a few bucks
[21:32:50] <archivist> roycroft, have you seen this homebrew spindle http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1562
[21:33:12] <PCW> even an ultrasonic BZT transducer on the back of a steel/tungsten carbide disk ought to make quite a pulse when hit
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[21:39:24] <joe9> anyone using openscad to generate 3d shapes to be later used by heekscad/heekscnc?
[21:39:50] <joe9> openscad is pretty cool. not sure how the integration with heekscad/cnc is.
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[21:50:05] <roycroft> i hadn't seen that, archivist - thanks
[21:50:23] <roycroft> i'm interested in maximum speed, tir, and how much heat it generates, of course
[21:50:59] * roycroft bookmarks for later perusal
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[21:51:41] <archivist> as soon as I have spare cash I may try one
[21:51:41] <roycroft> i won't say a spindle is an afterthought, but since it's so independent of the rest of the system, i haven't yet made it a high priority to get spindles sorted out
[21:52:00] <roycroft> i was only discussing it earlier today because someone else was talking about spindles
[21:52:17] <roycroft> my focus right now is on the interface from the computer to the motors
[21:52:25] <roycroft> i want to purchase those components soon
[21:52:55] <roycroft> then i'll work on the motor mounts, and ball screws, should i decide to use them
[21:53:45] <roycroft> although my the primary driving force for this project is the ability to fabricate pcbs, once i do the rest of the conversion i'll have a full-fleged general-purpose cnc mill, other than the high speed spindle
[21:53:51] <roycroft> and i can do everything but engraving or pcbs
[21:54:08] <roycroft> i could even start out with that cheap spindle from zen
[21:54:18] <roycroft> it's $90, but tir is 0.0025", which is pretty poor
[21:54:31] <roycroft> and it maxes out at 8k rmp
[21:54:32] <roycroft> rpm
[21:54:46] <roycroft> i'd like at least 20k rpm and tir of 0.0005" or better
[21:55:07] <roycroft> and the ability to run it for more than 10 minutes straight without it self-destructing
[21:55:53] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=320909267308&nma=true&rt=nc&si=xjp43HaMd3vznCV11rD5IAtuY6s%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[21:55:55] <r00t4rd3d> won that
[21:55:57] <archivist> you have to pay a lot for good tir
[21:56:02] <roycroft> yeah, i know
[21:56:21] <roycroft> going from thousandths to tenths is a big jump in price
[22:00:31] <roycroft> and now i'm thinking that, when i disassemble the x3 for the cnc conversion, it is time for a one-shot oil setup as well
[22:01:18] <frallzoran> 2 flute carbide cutter, 13.5k-18k rpm, name a good feed rate
[22:01:30] <frallzoran> tool = 6mm or 1/4"
[22:02:54] <archivist> frallzoran, one works it out by the feed per tooth per rev, which is material and cutter dependent
[22:04:04] <frallzoran> I get that info via HSMworks, how to know if its any good? =))
[22:04:37] <frallzoran> material is Alu unknow alloy as an example
[22:04:42] <frallzoran> *unknown
[22:10:31] <archivist> by working it out knowing your machine and tooling and trying it
[22:11:19] <whaat> alex4nder, found the usb thread. fortunately, timing, threading, limits and homing are already performed in hardware, so usb might have a chance still
[22:12:12] <frallzoran> archivist pretty sure there are some generic things to try when you get values like these http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/datacnc.jpg
[22:12:21] <frallzoran> pretty much all one kan find out =)
[22:13:08] <archivist> frallzoran, have you used a manual machine?
[22:13:15] <frallzoran> nope
[22:13:25] <frallzoran> or I have but years ago =)
[22:13:54] <archivist> there are other calculators on the net http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling
[22:14:42] <archivist> often the noise a cut makes will force you to change speeds and feeds
[22:15:50] <frallzoran> I hate tooling with no data on them =(
[22:16:52] <frallzoran> playing around with no name brands
[22:17:28] <archivist> some suppliers have very good data books with data, sandvik has a good general book you can download
[22:18:32] <frallzoran> any link for sandviks book?
[22:21:04] <andypugh> whaat: So, what is the input format into your USB controller?
[22:21:54] <whaat> Time based commands
[22:22:46] <alex4nder> whaat: the best way to know is to measure.
[22:24:04] <frallzoran> that sandvik app for smartphones seems pretty nifty
[22:24:20] <frallzoran> gave me a nice value that seems plausible
[22:25:12] <whaat> Will try to figure out how to get the controller and emc2 to talk, if manage that to work might post results somewhere
[22:26:00] <frallzoran> usb-controller?
[22:26:39] <gene77> Does anyone have the winding color code for a xylotex 24H290-35-8B motor?
[22:26:41] <whaat> But seems it works somewhat different from how emc2 is designed, so dont know if it might work after all
[22:27:16] <whaat> Yes, usb connection to pc
[22:27:43] <andypugh> time-based commands in what format? millisecond-by-millisecond positions?
[22:28:48] <whaat> Time delta, don't know exact unit atm
[22:29:21] <andypugh> How does probing and threading fit into that? (Not that you need those on all machines)
[22:29:41] <whaat> For example x axis moves to # with accel # until time is #
[22:30:04] <andypugh> Think I found my bug, and it's a cool one: for (j = 0 ; i < hm2->sserial.instance[i].num_auto; j++){
[22:30:19] <whaat> Probing don't know yet, threading has its own command
[22:30:56] <andypugh> Well, you might be able to get that out of LinuxCNC, possibly in the HAL layer
[22:31:21] <archivist> whaat, that gives an error if x and y are accelerating differently for an angular cut unless x and y coordinate the acceleration to maintain the path
[22:31:27] <andypugh> I think you might have more luck doing it the normal, supported, understood way.
[22:32:56] <whaat> They're coordinated AFAIK, so they jeep proportion if one stays behind
[22:33:26] <whaat> Not sure how interacts with timing tho
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[22:34:52] <archivist> some servo controllers are fed over the network that way and talk to each other
[22:37:38] <whaat> Same controller has the 4 axes it supports, so they can be coordinated somehow, but still need to figure out how to get usb and pc sides to talk properly
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[22:38:56] <whaat> Moving straight lines is straightforward, but gets more complicated if feedback is needed to the pc
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[22:46:46] <jdhNC> gene: http://www.xylotex.com/24H290-35-8B.pdf might be useful
[22:47:59] <andypugh> gene77: How many wires? It might be easier to figure it out from first principles, I have known motors not to match their datasheets.
[22:48:48] <andypugh> Ah yes, 8-wire motors.
[22:48:59] <ReadError> hey
[22:49:01] <ReadError> stupid question
[22:49:10] <ReadError> if i pause during cutting something
[22:49:21] <ReadError> can i jog the z axis up to swap the endmill
[22:49:27] <andypugh> You can figure out the winding pairs by seeing which ones, when touched together, make the motor stiffer to turn.
[22:49:33] <ReadError> and when i resume, will it go back down to where it needs to be?
[22:49:38] <andypugh> ReadError: No, sorry.
[22:50:03] <jdhNC> you can do that if you insert a manual tool change
[22:50:24] <andypugh> It's a perfectly reasonable thing to want to do, but LinuxCNC has a structure that makes it currently difficult.
[22:50:47] <Tom_itx> how so?
[22:50:55] <jdhNC> andypugh: it works fine with the tool change thing.
[22:51:31] <andypugh> With the jog-during-toolchange patch, it can be done during a toolchange.
[22:52:01] <andypugh> But in that case you could just set the toolchange position to be quill-up
[22:53:19] <andypugh> If you need to swap a cutter during an unscheduled pause, the closest thing is to stop then run-from-line (which has its own problems)
[22:53:42] <Tom_itx> you're likely gonna need to touch off again too you think?
[22:54:08] <jdhNC> I think you can touch off while doing that.
[22:54:23] <andypugh> mah has part of the solution in a development branch. It is coming, but it's anyones guess when.
[22:55:59] <gene77> 8 wire & I want to use in BP
[22:56:01] <andypugh> ReadError: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Jog-While-Paused
[22:56:06] <gene77> 8 wire & I want to use it BP
[22:56:24] <gene77> no stripped wires, all solid colors
[22:57:17] <andypugh> gene77: I can't remember how to figure out which is A and which is B. But you can get the pairs by touching them together to see which make it stiffer.
[22:58:03] <andypugh> Once you have that you can find the start and end of each pair, one way connected they will make the motor twice as stiff, the other way they cancel, and the motor turns freely.
[22:58:54] <Tom_itx> http://www.linengineering.com/line/contents/stepmotors/Wiring_Connections.aspx
[22:59:00] <Tom_itx> maybe that will help
[22:59:47] <andypugh> So, if W1 and W2 are a pair and W3 and W4 are a pair, then W1-W3 / W2-W4 is one combo, and W1-W4 / W2-W3 is the other, and one way will be stiff, and one free.
[23:00:17] <jdhNC> isn't an ohmmeter more reliable?
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[23:00:31] <Tom_itx> it will give you the pairs but that's it
[23:00:53] <jdhNC> I'd start with the docs :)
[23:01:23] <andypugh> I had a motor with wires which didn't match the docs, I could not figure out how the motor could take 5A, get hot, and make no torque. I had start1A connected to start2A..
[23:01:58] <andypugh> Ohm-meter gives you ends, but not directions.
[23:02:01] <Tom_itx> nice little heater there
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[23:03:21] <Tom_itx> you can also put a 'flag' on the shaft and excite the coils with a 1.5v battery and see alot from that
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[23:05:03] <Tom_itx> won't necesarily give you the order but it may help with direction
[23:05:40] <Tom_itx> once you've ohm'd the pairs
[23:09:42] <Tom_itx> after that, if you combine the pairs and the battery won't turn it, they're the wrong pairs
[23:10:15] <andypugh> Yes, battery and zero torque indicates a start-start or end-end connection.
[23:10:44] <Tom_itx> so you can determine the direction for each pair once you've ohm'd the pairs
[23:11:13] <andypugh> Telling A from B is the part I can't recall how to do
[23:11:26] <Tom_itx> the battery won't turn the pair
[23:11:42] <Tom_itx> it'll be a nice little heater i think
[23:11:56] <andypugh> A1 in serais with B1 is a microstep
[23:12:04] <Tom_itx> or it won't turn it the full step
[23:12:17] <Tom_itx> watch the flag!
[23:12:39] <andypugh> No, it will sit on a half step, but how you tell that from a full step I am not sure
[23:12:49] <Tom_itx> me either
[23:13:05] <Tom_itx> but you can determine quite a bit with a couple simple tests
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[23:14:57] <Tom_itx> if it's sitting on a half step and you remove the power, wouldn't it be easy to turn it manually to the full step position?
[23:15:14] <Tom_itx> and if it didn't move, it would already be there
[23:15:51] <andypugh> Maybe.
[23:30:36] <alex4nder> yoh
[23:32:09] <ReadError> alex4nder https://p.twimg.com/AtNSDuOCAAAX-iW.jpg
[23:32:42] <alex4nder> sick
[23:32:46] <andypugh> I can't decide if that is a "thingy" or a "widget"
[23:32:51] <alex4nder> ReadError: motor mount?
[23:32:56] <ReadError> nah center hub
[23:33:06] <ReadError> will hold 4x 3/4 aluminum square tubes
[23:33:20] <ReadError> should be super strong, made it in 0.125" :)
[23:33:28] <alex4nder> nice
[23:33:36] * frallzoran demands a group hug
[23:34:04] <andypugh> wrong group, dude
[23:34:14] <alex4nder> yah
[23:34:15] <frallzoran> no it isnt ;)
[23:34:29] <alex4nder> ReadError: what was your feed rate?
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[23:49:08] <ReadError> i went kinda slow on that
[23:49:16] <ReadError> 1.7ipm
[23:49:20] <ReadError> since it was so thick
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[23:52:27] <alex4nder> ReadError: at what spindle speed?
[23:53:20] <ReadError> hmmm not sure
[23:53:24] <ReadError> right above the middle