#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-19

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[00:09:02] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/mill_in_shop1.jpg
[00:09:06] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/mill_in_shop2.jpg
[00:09:08] <Connor> http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/conversion/mill_in_shop3.jpg
[00:09:50] <Connor> OKay, Questions... I'm trying to decide how I want to setup my console... I like the idea of having the keyboard/mouse & monitor mounted on a movable arm..
[00:10:39] <Connor> and I'm thinking kinda in front of the hot water heater..
[00:10:42] <andypugh> Mouse?
[00:10:50] <ReadError> that mill is huge ;)
[00:11:04] <andypugh> Maybe better to have a trackpad, trackball or touchscreen
[00:11:15] <ReadError> what kind of mill is it?
[00:11:18] <Connor> I hate Tackpads, trackballs..
[00:11:50] <Connor> I use my mouse very high resolution.. and touchscreen is a possibility.
[00:11:58] <andypugh> Fair enough, but mice hate machine shops.
[00:12:15] <Connor> Yea, I found that crap getting under it was a pain..
[00:12:29] <andypugh> They need a flat surface, and flat surfaces end up under piles of swarf and tooling
[00:12:29] <djdelorie> http://pckeyboard.mivamerchant.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/Straight%20on%202.png
[00:13:10] <Connor> At some point.. I'm wanting to install a large chip pan and enclose it.. which probably means I'll have move my shelfing...
[00:13:35] <Connor> ReadError: That's my G0704..
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[00:14:37] <andypugh> djdelorie: I have http://www.devlin-group.co.uk/downloads/KSM067TS%20&%20TP.pdf on my machine.
[00:14:39] <djdelorie> http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/e0e7/
[00:14:39] <Connor> as you can see in photo 2. I have it on my MDF box that my shop vacuum is in.. that's for my shop bandsaw/drill press.. I've got them shoved over in the corner to the right..
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[00:15:28] <ReadError> where is the z-axis motor?
[00:15:51] <Connor> you can't see it, it's behind the spindle motor.
[00:15:58] <andypugh> That's a cute thing
[00:16:08] <Connor> if you look real carefully you can see the top of the rear shaft.
[00:16:43] <djdelorie> http://www.amazon.com/Seal-Shield-Glow-Keyboard-SW90PG2/dp/tech-data/B003N3DV66
[00:17:29] <djdelorie> andypugh: my linuxcnc keyboard is a generic $5 keyboard, but my main desktop has an original 1985 IBM Model M keyboard
[00:17:51] <andypugh> OOh! I always assumed that these were total vapourware: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/keyboards-mice/9836/
[00:19:10] <andypugh> I had a friend who insisted he wanted "a proper clicky keyboard like a model M" but I suggested he try one of the aluminium short-travel Mac keyboards, and he loved it.
[00:19:16] <djdelorie> at that price, they might as well be :-P
[00:20:22] <djdelorie> for $200 MORE, you can buy a used one on eBay
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[00:22:03] <djdelorie> I've used a LOT of different keyboards in my life, and vastly prefer the model M. But I know many people who have tried it and feel otherwise.
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[00:25:27] <andypugh> I think I would prefer no keyboard and electrodes in my brain.
[00:25:55] <andypugh> But I do seem to type a great deal faster on this Apple keyboard.
[00:27:37] <Thetawaves> is it a standalone keyboard?
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[00:27:42] <Thetawaves> or laptop keyboard?
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[00:32:45] <andypugh> Thetawaves: A bit of both.
[00:32:54] <Thetawaves> huh?
[00:33:28] <andypugh> I think it is identical to the keyboard on the alumnium Macbooks, but it is a standalone keyboard.
[00:34:13] <andypugh> So it has individual short-travel keys in an aluminium slab, with a distinct space between the keys.
[00:34:44] <alex4nder> that's like the keyboard on my air
[00:35:09] <Thetawaves> oh cool
[00:35:21] <Thetawaves> i do like this macbook keyboard a lot
[00:35:41] <Thetawaves> andypugh, it may feel faster to type because your fingers don't have to move as far down, right?
[00:36:05] <andypugh> http://store.apple.com/us/product/MC184LL/B?fnode=MTc0MjU4OTY
[00:36:33] <andypugh> I think it is the spacing reduces double-strikes. I am an awful typist :-)
[00:36:49] * Thetawaves doesn't make mistakes.
[00:37:50] <andypugh> I would prefer bigger cursor keys, and a delete key though (it has backspace, but you need to fn-backspace for right-delete). The full-size one has those
[00:38:18] <andypugh> It's not the ideal gaming keyboard, especially not for YPP swordfight.
[00:38:20] <Thetawaves> no
[00:39:03] <Thetawaves> 1) how often do you need to delete? Other than when writing
[00:39:25] <Thetawaves> if you are using delete as part of a key combination, you need to modify your programs
[00:40:08] <andypugh> All the CAD programs I use use "delete" not "backspace" to get rid of things.
[00:40:49] <Thetawaves> that will be a problem.
[00:40:57] <Thetawaves> on mac, nothing needs delete, obviously
[00:41:12] <Thetawaves> can you map delete to one of the function keys?
[00:41:44] <andypugh> Possibly. I admit that most of the problems are in Windows apps in VMware
[00:42:11] <Thetawaves> that is unfortunate :-/
[00:42:31] <andypugh> I want FreeCAD to grow the fatures I need, then I will be happy
[00:42:35] <Thetawaves> the full size keyboard has a delete key?
[00:42:49] <andypugh> I am not sure, actually
[00:45:00] <andypugh> Yes
[00:45:24] <andypugh> That has home/end/page up / page dowm delete in a blck
[00:45:49] <andypugh> And 19 function keys!
[00:46:02] <Thetawaves> lol
[00:51:49] <ReadError> i like mechanical keyboards
[00:51:54] <ReadError> cherry switches :)
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[00:58:10] <Thetawaves> they are good too
[00:58:17] <Thetawaves> i really appreciate my old ibm keyboards
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[01:09:05] <Jymmm> andypugh: For PS2 I still use IBM KEyboard for over 15 years. For USB, I usr the Apple Wired and a silicon cover http://km.support.apple.com/library/APPLE/APPLECARE_ALLGEOS/HT1216/Pasted%20Graphic.png
[01:09:50] <Jymmm> Love em both, but the Apple is thin, quiter, but still has a great feel comparted to the ibm clicky kybds
[01:10:29] <Jymmm> the silicon cover takes a little to get used to, maybe 2 weeks
[01:11:25] <Jymmm> battery kybds are jsut annoying as the battery dies when you dont have any spares
[01:11:53] <andypugh> Yeah, I rather like wired, but this machine came with the Bluetooth one
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[01:12:23] <Jymmm> So did my gf's, and she has the wired and a brand new BT one still in the bx
[01:12:58] <Jymmm> that came with her imac
[01:13:17] <Jymmm> the wired is a realy good kybd
[01:13:33] <ReadError> andypugh, u get the mighty pad?
[01:13:39] <andypugh> ?
[01:13:48] <Jymmm> just get a silicon cover off ebay if it's gonna get dirty
[01:13:52] <Jymmm> the track pad
[01:14:01] <Jymmm> magic pad or wth it's called
[01:14:04] <andypugh> No, the mouse.
[01:14:17] <Jymmm> that IS the mouse
[01:14:29] <Jymmm> but it's a pad instead of a mouse shape
[01:14:29] <andypugh> I like it, even if it is unergonomic and annoying
[01:14:52] <Jymmm> kensigtin trackball FTW
[01:14:56] <andypugh> But the mouse is a trackpad too. it's confusing
[01:15:07] <Jymmm> heh
[01:15:17] <ReadError> it does gestures
[01:15:18] <ReadError> too
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[01:15:20] <Jymmm> nuh uh =)
[01:15:24] <ReadError> so you can keep 1 hand on the pad
[01:15:27] <ReadError> 1 on the mouse
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[01:15:43] <Jymmm> ReadError: I got a gesture for that
[01:18:28] <andypugh> I wonder what the point of all the Z moves is? http://youtu.be/E3AqIZURMbI
[01:19:42] <roycroft> andupugh: that mill's mother probably dropped it on its head when it was a baby
[01:25:22] <gene77> Andy, just came by and saw your replies, thanks, I test that tomorrow.
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[02:02:04] <tjb1> still having some issues with the tungsten...
[02:03:51] <tjb1> thinking that maybe I'm getting it too pointy and the thin area is melting off
[02:05:08] <roycroft> stupid question
[02:05:12] <roycroft> don't be offended, please
[02:05:18] <roycroft> do you have polarity set correctly?
[02:06:07] <roycroft> for steel you want dcen
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[02:06:17] <tjb1> yes
[02:06:29] <tjb1> its set dc -
[02:06:37] <roycroft> ok, just making sure :)
[02:06:46] <tjb1> not that much of a noob :)
[02:07:00] <roycroft> i had no idea what your experience level was
[02:07:08] <roycroft> which is why i asked you not to be offended :)
[02:07:11] <tjb1> Never used a big before today.
[02:07:13] <tjb1> *tig
[02:07:56] <tjb1> I then had the tip holding nice somehow
[02:08:05] <tjb1> I think I'm getting it too close also..
[02:10:05] <tjb1> Also, part of the puddle jumped on to the tungsten and made a nice ball.
[02:13:18] <tjb1> roycroft: how close should the tip be from the end of the lens?
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[02:20:51] <Valen> puddle touching tip = contaminaition
[02:20:58] <Valen> grind it off and start again
[02:21:41] <Valen> the tungsten will often make a ball by itself though not generally for steel
[02:22:05] <Valen> i have the tungsten about 5-10mm or so past the cup
[02:22:12] <Valen> normally more like 5
[02:22:19] <tjb1> When I do that it seems to burn the taper off
[02:22:56] <Valen> define "that"
[02:23:23] <tjb1> Stick it out 3/16-1/4"
[02:23:28] <tjb1> it just takes the taper off
[02:23:37] <Valen> whats the taper?
[02:23:38] <tjb1> until I'm about back to solid tungsten
[02:23:45] <tjb1> whatever the chem sharp is putting
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[02:23:59] <Valen> eh either too many amps or dont bother about it
[02:24:02] <Valen> chem sharp?
[02:24:51] <tjb1> heat the tip, dip it in and it burns a taper on
[02:25:23] <tjb1> This is a 1/8" 2% thor at only around 100 amps
[02:25:37] <Valen> well laaade friggin dah mr fancy pants lol
[02:25:41] <tjb1> #7 lens on a lincoln 17 torch
[02:25:44] <Valen> we just use a gringer
[02:25:47] <tjb1> its cheaper than a grinder!
[02:25:49] <Valen> grinder
[02:25:59] <Valen> grinder cost $20
[02:26:03] <tjb1> this was $10
[02:26:08] <tjb1> :P
[02:26:39] <Valen> mine will last alot longer and when you contaminate the tungsten it wont contaminate whatever that nasty ass checmical that can wat tungsten is
[02:26:42] <Valen> eat
[02:27:06] <tjb1> I think its just sodium
[02:27:28] <tjb1> can too much argon cause the tip to burn off?
[02:28:24] <Valen> its normal for the tip to ball up some
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[02:28:36] <Valen> i use ~10cfm for argon
[02:29:10] <tjb1> its turning like a 5/16 taper into an 1/8 taper
[02:29:17] <tjb1> with like 1 inch beads.
[02:31:20] <Valen> http://www.burnsstainless.com/Newsletters/Articles/Welding/TIG_Torch_Figure_6.JPG
[02:33:33] <tjb1> what am i looking for?
[02:33:53] <Valen> thats what they should look like roughly
[02:35:06] <tjb1> very short tapers
[02:35:44] <Valen> i'd use a bench grinder untill you know what your doing personally
[02:35:57] <Valen> normally about 45 degree angle
[02:36:41] <tjb1> I tried a bench grinder earlier
[02:36:58] <tjb1> with the 3/32 tungsten and I was burning them off faster than I could grind them
[02:37:13] <Valen> too many amps then
[02:37:39] <Valen> 100A is what i'd use on something like 6mm
[02:37:46] <Valen> tig is slower than mig
[02:37:57] <Valen> wind the amps down some, take your time
[02:38:03] <Valen> (6mm steel)
[02:38:15] <tjb1> The lincoln book says that 3/32 tungsten can handle max amperage
[02:38:45] <Valen> if your doing more than 45 deg it will melt pretty fast
[02:39:02] <tjb1> so it will melt itself down to the point where it will stop melting?
[02:39:02] <Valen> also if you contaminate the tungsten (with steel) it'll eat the tip
[02:39:13] <tjb1> then will weld all nice and fansy
[02:39:15] <Valen> yeah basically
[02:39:23] <tjb1> well screw it then
[02:39:32] <tjb1> ill just taper it and let it burn itself to where its happy.
[02:39:50] <Valen> i only bother with a fine point when i'm doing fiddly stuff and need to direct the arc
[02:40:10] <Valen> just do it on the bench grinder, it takes about 5 seconds ;-P
[02:40:22] <tjb1> that wheel has been used for steel
[02:40:27] <Valen> you can also make asymetric points and stuff if you need to shift the arc over
[02:40:28] <tjb1> and probably every material known in the garage
[02:40:47] <Valen> its ok the level of stuff your going to get isn't going to bother you
[02:41:19] <Valen> also practise with low amps and getting a decent bead
[02:41:27] <Valen> what are you practising on?
[02:41:32] <tjb1> washers
[02:41:37] <tjb1> didn't feel like cutting steel
[02:41:45] <tjb1> I was doing scrap pipe earlier
[02:41:50] <Valen> your putting 100A into a washer?
[02:42:06] * Valen is thinking something the size of a coin here
[02:43:11] <tjb1> about 1/8 thick
[02:43:17] <tjb1> i set the machine to 100
[02:43:21] <tjb1> the pedal wasn't at 100
[02:43:34] <Valen> ok then lol
[02:43:50] <Valen> if they are zinc or gal it'll screw stuff up
[02:43:58] <tjb1> screw the tungsten up?
[02:44:04] <Valen> also breathing those fumes is bad for you
[02:44:06] <Valen> the weld
[02:44:10] <Valen> make it uglier
[02:44:13] <tjb1> I'm not worried about the weld yet
[02:44:20] <tjb1> still trying to keep the tungsten from killing itself lol
[02:44:29] <Valen> get a lump of 6mm or so
[02:44:33] <Valen> 1/4
[02:44:36] <tjb1> at $6 a pop, need to fix things
[02:44:38] <Valen> just scrap
[02:44:50] <Valen> run about say 60A or so
[02:45:04] <Valen> just practise running a bead
[02:45:13] <Valen> make sure its shiny metal clean
[02:45:29] <Valen> any rust or scale will make it pop and fart and spray sparks
[02:45:44] <tjb1> 3/32?
[02:45:49] <Valen> and make your welds look like a turkey with diarrhoea
[02:46:11] <Valen> yeah
[02:46:25] <Valen> start at low amps
[02:46:37] <Valen> if your not making a puddle then add a bit more
[02:47:15] <tjb1> alright
[02:47:45] <tjb1> can I clean this with a steel wire wheel
[02:47:54] <Valen> yeah
[02:47:56] <tjb1> or do I need to spring for a fancy ass stainless wire wheel too?
[02:48:10] <Valen> i always use a stainless wheel
[02:48:18] <Valen> just because the wheel doesnt rust lol
[02:48:54] <Valen> but if your going to do stainless make sure you use a stainless wheel and only use it on stainless, otherwise it'll rust
[02:49:09] <Valen> angle grinder is good for cleaning steel too
[02:49:21] <tjb1> we use a lot of them sand paper discs
[02:49:29] <Valen> makes it easy to make a V to fill with weld
[02:50:34] <tjb1> any other tips?
[02:51:08] <Valen> did i mention it has to be clean? ;->
[02:51:17] <Valen> umm autodarkening helmets are awesome
[02:51:31] <tjb1> we got 3 of them
[02:51:32] <Valen> if you get sooty black marks around the weld, the tungsten is contaminated
[02:52:09] <Valen> if it goes blue when your finished (the tungsten) then your post weld purge is too short
[02:52:23] <Valen> (blue is oxygen contamination)
[02:52:25] <tjb1> I got the purge at about 12 now
[02:52:31] <Valen> 12 is pretty long
[02:52:51] <Valen> generally it just needs to be long enough that the tip isnt red any more
[02:53:12] <Valen> i also keep the torch over the weld as the purge runs to keep the shield over the hot part of the bead
[02:53:35] <Valen> keep preflow purge short or it just gets irritating
[02:53:38] <Valen> i think i have .7 or so
[02:54:31] <ReadError> will your machine do aluminum ?
[02:54:33] <tjb1> .7?
[02:54:39] <Valen> .7 of a second
[02:54:45] <tjb1> dang.
[02:54:48] <tjb1> yes read
[02:54:59] <tjb1> its dc+-,ac
[02:55:01] <tjb1> 230 amp
[02:55:03] <ReadError> how much is a decent TIG that will do aluminum ?
[02:55:22] <tjb1> One I got is a Lincoln Precision 225
[02:55:32] <tjb1> It was $2400 at Harris Welding Supplies with the cart
[02:55:41] <ReadError> needs gas?
[02:55:44] <tjb1> yes
[02:55:46] <ReadError> argon
[02:55:50] <tjb1> yep
[02:55:53] <ReadError> how much is one of those tanks?
[02:56:14] <Valen> I hear that a touch of helium in the argon makes for better Al welds
[02:56:16] <tjb1> No idea how much the tank is
[02:56:25] <Valen> i've only ever done it with straight argon though
[02:56:33] <tjb1> It was $65 to fill our 300 tank
[02:56:55] <ReadError> how long will that last you think?
[02:57:17] <ReadError> ive done steel on a wirefeed
[02:57:24] <ReadError> but i want to learn to do aluminum
[02:57:25] <tjb1> 300 is huge
[02:58:17] <tjb1> its 9"x55"
[02:58:22] <tjb1> 135lbs
[02:59:11] <ReadError> i want to get a nice drillpress
[02:59:11] <tjb1> I think our other tank is like a 150, its a 25/75 mix for our mig welder
[03:00:12] <tjb1> Ill try that all tomorrow valen and get back to you
[03:00:35] <tjb1> ReadError: we have this - http://www.tractorsupply.com/black-bull-trade-drill-press-with-laser-guide-work-light-16-speed-3900673
[03:00:40] <tjb1> its not bad but the table flexes
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[03:08:02] <tjb1> Valen: ill trying a nice blunt short angle point tomorrow on clean metal and report back
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[03:28:01] <ReadError> i think my chips are getting welded to the outside when i cut
[03:28:08] <ReadError> am i going to slow?
[03:28:22] <ReadError> looks like a fuzzy cut on the outside
[03:28:35] <ReadError> or inside, depending on what direction im going
[03:29:25] <Tom_itx> dull cutter
[03:31:59] <ReadError> it was brand new
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[03:48:30] <tjb1> Did not know that the long cover on the back was used to adjust tungsten length...
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[04:02:19] <Jymmm> ReadError: welded chips when you cut what?
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[06:57:37] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:09:26] <fragalot> Aah there's nothing like disassembling your cnc machine for a good & proper maintenance cycle and finding soot all over the spindle mount
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[07:41:33] <archivist> fragalot, reminds me of the cracking sound from my Z a couple of years ago...the dust was brown, I had fretting corrosion in the leadscrew coupling, oiled to keep it at bay for a day or two till I replaced with a better coupling
[07:45:42] <fragalot> :/
[08:04:57] <fragalot> ugh
[08:05:04] <fragalot> using loctite 435 out of poverty as threadlock
[08:05:10] <fragalot> even though it's more expensive ><
[08:09:30] <fragalot> I'm so *never* going to be able to disassemble this ever again, lol
[08:12:28] <archivist> heat is supposed to break threadlock, but I hate the stuff
[08:13:09] <fragalot> archivist: 435 is superglue on steroids
[08:13:23] <fragalot> sets in 20 minutes, and does. not. let. go.
[08:13:32] <fragalot> i've tested it on aluminium & the aluminium gave way instead of the glue
[08:13:46] <fragalot> (granted, it wasn't the best quality alu :P)
[08:31:28] <Tom_itx> is that the red stuff?
[08:31:32] <Tom_itx> or blue
[08:31:36] <Tom_itx> blue lets go easier
[08:41:25] <fragalot> Tom_itx: it's clear
[08:41:38] <fragalot> it's not meant for threadlock use, but for parts assembly as a structural adhesive
[08:42:15] <Tom_itx> ahh
[08:43:09] <Tom_itx> al isn't a good one to be threadlocking anyway
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[08:43:26] <alex4nder> hey
[08:43:36] <Tom_itx> straw
[08:44:00] <fragalot> Tom_itx: yeah
[08:59:04] <fragalot> hmph
[08:59:08] <fragalot> there's some play in my Z bearings
[09:01:22] <fragalot> .34mm
[09:01:23] <fragalot> >.<
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[09:07:03] <Valen> less that awesome
[09:07:20] <fragalot> I'm vaguely wondering if that's play on the drive nut or on the bearing now
[09:09:11] <fragalot> bearings..
[09:16:47] <fragalot> is there a way to make it so if it hits a limit switch (configured minimum limit + home), that I can still move it without having to disconnect the switch?
[09:16:53] <fragalot> well, short it in this case
[09:18:16] <Valen> there is
[09:18:16] <fragalot> oh. i've got the Z configured as min. too while it should me max
[09:18:17] <fragalot> >.>
[09:18:19] <fragalot> be*
[09:18:25] <fragalot> that explains that then :D
[09:18:25] <Valen> but i forget what it is
[09:18:36] <fragalot> Valen: there's an override limits button that I just found in EMC2
[09:18:38] <Valen> i believe it will let you move off the limit
[09:19:00] <Valen> ie if you move into the limit it will let you move the other way until the limit is released
[09:19:28] <fragalot> yeah, i just had it configured wrong ^_^
[09:19:47] <fragalot> but no - on a limit switch it disables the machine until you hit the "override limits" button
[09:20:03] <fragalot> in which case, if configured correctly (this was my problem), it will let you move off
[09:21:53] <fragalot> kinda wonder if I could make homing faster.. like move fairly quickly towards home switch, back off & go slow
[09:22:15] <fragalot> meh i'll just move it close manually
[09:24:33] <fragalot> ... these switches seem to.. suck. lol
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[09:41:33] <fragalot> hm. my X and Y axis appear to try to home in the wrong direction :/
[09:42:09] <fragalot> the switch is at the far left of the table, Home location: 0 Table travel: 0 - 200.0 home switch location 0 and a search velocity of 10
[09:42:24] <fragalot> are those correct? or can I easilly change something to fix this
[09:43:41] <fragalot> fixed it by entering a negative velocity
[09:44:10] <fragalot> fuck.
[09:44:39] <fragalot> Y went on & decided to carry on past the limit & that's just ripped the switch mount out, lol
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[10:37:18] <Loetmichel> fragalot: the chinese aurcooled
[10:37:23] <Loetmichel> definetly
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[10:44:56] <jthornton> what the heck does w.r.t. mean?
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[11:00:20] <CareBear\> with regard to
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[11:06:02] <jthornton> thanks
[11:08:30] <archivist> jthornton, how is the redneck power station going?
[11:11:32] <jthornton> waiting on a throttle man to show up
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[11:13:32] <jthornton> seems my part time business partner has disappeared no doubt on some boy scout adventure
[11:14:57] <Jymmm> redneck power station? The 30kw generator?
[11:15:11] <jthornton> yea
[11:15:17] <Jymmm> or the tractor power takeoff?
[11:15:24] <jthornton> no
[11:15:44] <archivist> the assemblage
[11:15:55] <Jymmm> would the tractor be the hillbilly power station?
[11:16:03] <jthornton> it's a 6 cyl power unit
[11:16:21] <jthornton> tractor pto only turns 540 rpm which is too slow
[11:16:35] <Jymmm> gearbox?
[11:16:42] <archivist> the trailer being a fundamental part of the power station
[11:16:44] <jthornton> they make them yes
[11:19:40] <Loetmichel> jthornton: i've seen that in maroc.
[11:19:59] <jthornton> a cobbled up power station?
[11:20:05] <Loetmichel> renterd two 1MW diesel gensets locally.
[11:20:48] <jthornton> this is not even a genset lol
[11:21:21] <archivist> it is true redneck construction
[11:21:28] <Loetmichel> what arrived on the location: a shops diesel without exhaust welded to 2 railroad tracks and a genny coupled on int, transported on a semi
[11:22:21] <jthornton> that sounds close to what I have but straps instead of welding and trailer instead of tracks
[11:22:25] <Jymmm> I'm working on heat sealing 1/2" plastic tubing; 1) Is there something other than a pneumatic cylinder or electric solenoid that I could use to "pinch" the tubing? 2) I have lots of NiChrome wire to work with, but I can't get enough heat out to produce a 1/16" or 1/8" seal in the tubing, is there some material that will dissipate/distribute the heat out quickly enough?
[11:23:31] <jthornton> gold seems to be the best conductor
[11:23:32] <archivist> block of aluminium with a non stick cover
[11:23:43] <Loetmichel> ... and no power distribution, just 3(4) 30mm screw bolts on the back of the generator
[11:23:46] <Loetmichel> :)
[11:23:55] <Loetmichel> jthornton: wron
[11:24:02] <Loetmichel> silfer is the best conductor
[11:24:05] <Loetmichel> silver
[11:24:07] <jthornton> this one has some wires hanging out of an old bleach bottle
[11:24:10] <Jymmm> jthornton: Got any to spare?
[11:24:19] <jthornton> not even a tooth
[11:25:33] <archivist> Jymmm, you can get heaters to embed in the aluminium block
[11:25:59] <archivist> shape the edge for the seal shape you wand
[11:26:03] <archivist> want
[11:26:26] <Jymmm> archivist: Is there anything a bit better than aluminum as I've tried an 400W impulse sealer 8x in a row for 6s each and it barely did anything. I do have some teflon fabric for the insulator
[11:27:03] <jthornton> what is an impulse sealer
[11:27:17] <Jymmm> jthornton: hang on
[11:27:44] <Jymmm> jthornton: http://www.thesage.com/images/prod/9712_whole.jpg
[11:27:54] <archivist> Jymmm, you bring the plate to temp and keep it there for a days production
[11:27:59] <jthornton> the plastic factories use what archivist said to bond gas tanks together
[11:28:13] <archivist> and window frames
[11:28:34] <archivist> I used to repair a machine
[11:29:00] <jthornton> I have too, but we don't make window frames here
[11:29:15] <archivist> http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/img/P8311623b_p.png
[11:29:35] <jthornton> Jymmm, that seems to just be a heat sealer for plastic bags or something
[11:30:11] <jthornton> much too tiny to see
[11:30:25] <archivist> you need a larger thermal qty for thicker plastic an impulse wont cut it
[11:30:57] <Jymmm> Ok, I can work on that, just need to increase the wattage. If I coiled the nichrome wire, unlike mag wire it's not insulated, isthere somethig I could use to keep the coils from touching? I took apart a pencil soldering iron once and there was this "tape like" material in it.
[11:32:09] <Jymmm> jthornton: It is a plastic bag heat sealer. Same principal
[11:32:40] <Jymmm> Just not enough or continous wattage
[11:32:54] <Jymmm> s/wattage/heat/
[11:33:59] <archivist> jthornton, wee original is on too http://www.herronwindows.co.uk/img/P8311623.JPG
[11:34:24] <jthornton> does this make sense "G10 L2 offsets the origin of the axes specified in the coordinate system specified to the value of the axis word."
[11:34:46] <archivist> it is the teflon plate between the upper cylinders
[11:35:47] <Jymmm> ah kapton tape
[11:35:56] <archivist> jthornton, with some explanation probably
[11:36:04] <jthornton> ok
[11:36:19] <archivist> expand some :)
[11:40:52] <archivist> and use of word twice error error, should be a lawyer
[11:40:53] <Jymmm> Ceramic adhesive??? Never heard of such a thing... http://www.makergear.com/pages/ceramic-heater-core-instructions
[11:41:27] <jthornton> lol
[11:46:33] <Jymmm> 2300F expoxy-like putty
[11:47:13] <Jymmm> Since NiChrome melts at 2400F, that should work =)
[11:48:36] <Jymmm> archivist: Did you ever work on making the heating elements or just replace them?
[11:50:31] <jthornton> http://cartridge-heater-online.com/
[11:51:25] <jthornton> http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=cartridge+heater&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=925&bih=879&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=1475262201556307007&sa=X&ei=LIm3T-iHA4ariQKLm7GRBw&ved=0CLABEPMCMAE
[11:52:12] <jthornton> http://www.omega.com/toc_asp/subsectionsc.asp?book=heaters&subsection=d01
[11:53:21] <andypugh> "Ceramic Adhesive" probably means something like Autostic, but you can prpobably get away with fire cement (like Pyruma) which has worked fine for me.
[11:53:35] <Jymmm> jthornton: thanks, would have never googled for "cartridge heater".
[11:55:58] <jthornton> I kinda thought so
[11:56:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: That must be a UK thing, never heard of it
[11:56:23] <Jymmm> Can't find #907, but... http://www.cotronics.com/vo/cotr/ca_electricallyresistant.htm
[11:58:30] <andypugh> http://www.fortafix.com/autostic-range.html
[12:00:10] <Jymmm> andypugh: thanks
[12:00:44] <andypugh> But ordinary fire cement will be fine, probably. The sort of thing you seal flues with.
[12:01:20] <jthornton> Jymmm, I'd bet that wood stove gasket cement would work as well
[12:01:34] <jthornton> can get that from a hardware store
[12:03:05] <Jymmm> jthornton: Is it know by any other name by chance?
[12:03:12] <Jymmm> known*
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[12:09:39] <Jymmm> thanks guys, that gives me a great start on the heater element, any thoughts/suggestons on the pinch part?
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[12:10:16] <JT-Shop-2> Loetmichel: http://imagebin.org/213006
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[12:11:02] <Jymmm> jthornton: Heh, looks like that could easily be connected to your PTO =)
[12:11:27] <JT-Shop> looks can be deceving as you have forgot the speed of a pto
[12:11:42] <JT-Shop> http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=wood+stove+gasket+cement&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=8032870837&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=339453182146064929&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&ref=pd_sl_3mnuffday1_b
[12:11:49] <Jymmm> And I think archivist is right, it does look like a redneck power station!!! lol
[12:12:12] <JT-Shop> yep
[12:13:01] <archivist> chimney cement
[12:13:35] <JT-Shop> it's an allis chalmers power unit with a generator from a tug boat
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[12:14:24] <frallzor> JT-Shop
[12:14:31] <JT-Shop> hey
[12:14:43] <frallzor> heyhey, up for more issues with PP? =P
[12:15:17] <JT-Shop> don't have much time this morning just prepping the bike for a ride with the wife but shoot
[12:15:54] <frallzor> tried your PP and it complains about a G53 on a row
[12:16:03] <frallzor> saying it should be G0 or something
[12:16:16] <frallzor> just about to pop out and photograph the error =)
[12:16:33] <JT-Shop> well a G53 without a G0 or 1 will give you an error
[12:17:11] <JT-Shop> yea, I see it
[12:17:57] <frallzor> Is it me or the PP? Since Im all new to HSM =)
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[12:19:46] <JT-Shop> the PP is still flawed a bit, if you delete the g53 line is it ok?
[12:20:13] <frallzor> Ill check need to open the file first
[12:20:32] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/20120519_141704.jpg just for fun
[12:20:34] <andypugh> When I was a metallugist we always terminated furnace windings by making a big loop at the end and twisting it tightly together with the incomer, and the same with the other end. So you get triple-thickness (and cold) nichrome for the feeds and a good tight loop round the former too to hold it all in place.
[12:21:52] <andypugh> That was usung uninsulated wire though.
[12:21:53] <frallzor> G53 is the second last row so easy to find =)
[12:22:03] <frallzor> ill try without it, what does it do btw?
[12:22:19] <Jymmm> andypugh: That's what I have. About 100K worth in various gauges =)
[12:22:27] <JT-Shop> nothing by it self
[12:22:45] <frallzor> so no real need at the end then
[12:22:55] <andypugh> You might need to wrap the former in glass cloth or similar then.
[12:22:59] <frallzor> and no real nead at all since I manually change tools etc etc
[12:23:02] <frallzor> *need
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[12:23:10] <Jymmm> poof!
[12:23:11] <JT-Shop> the code suggests it is a move to home but only the G53 part is printing
[12:23:32] <frallzor> well I killed that line, so ill try it now
[12:23:46] <frallzor> otherwise Ill go do other things for a few hours =P
[12:24:13] <JT-Shop> yea, just delete the G53
[12:24:18] <frallzor> wrote on the HSM-forum too, got a revised PP for EMC
[12:24:21] <JT-Shop> the offending line in the PP is writeBlock(gAbsIncModal.format(90), gFormat.format(53), gMotionModal.format(0), homeX, homeY);
[12:24:31] <JT-Shop> 949
[12:24:41] <JT-Shop> does it work?
[12:25:00] <frallzor> still prints out odd code, but I know how to fix that now so ill try it later
[12:25:11] <frallzor> still does O3, and demand numbers as name etc etc
[12:25:15] <frallzor> but ill remove that later
[12:25:50] <frallzor> now off to try the G53-less code =)
[12:25:51] <frallzor> brb
[12:25:54] <JT-Shop> ok, I'll work on the offending line when I get back but for now you can just comment that line out
[12:27:16] * JT-Shop goes to clean the dust from the bicyclette
[12:27:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Just don't armorall the set whatever you do!!!
[12:27:41] <Jymmm> =)
[12:28:08] <Jymmm> I did that ONCE, and ONLY once =)
[12:30:39] <Jymmm> Is there any "Bi-Metal" properties between aluminum and brass that anyone is aware of by chance?
[12:41:28] <JT-Shop> by bi-metal do you mean galvanic reaction or combining the two metals like a bi-metal hacksaw blade?
[12:45:33] <frallzor> seems to be working fine now
[12:45:56] <frallzor> did some research about cutters, feed etc too so im running 2x tests in one now =)
[12:46:06] <frallzor> 18krpm HSM with carbide
[12:46:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: reaction
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[13:35:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&item=320909267308&nma=true&rt=nc&si=xjp43HaMd3vznCV11rD5IAtuY6s%253D&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
[13:35:49] <r00t4rd3d> my new camera :)
[13:40:35] <r00t4rd3d> now i will be able to take better pics of my unfinished router
[13:45:04] <alex_joni> good deal
[13:46:34] <Valen> we are going to make a half sheet router soon
[13:46:42] <Valen> i'm thinking a concrete bed for the win
[13:46:49] <Valen> and a carbon fiber gantry
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[13:51:16] <r00t4rd3d> that would be fun to move
[13:51:46] <r00t4rd3d> how thick of concrete for the bed?
[13:55:21] <Valen> i was thinking 80mm-100mm
[13:55:43] <Valen> moving it consists of smashing the bed with a jackhammer, moving it, then re-pouring the bed ;->
[13:56:19] <frallzor> I got a 5dmk2 for taking crappy pics of my router
[13:56:47] <Valen> phonecamera FTW
[13:57:37] <frallzor> I need to learn to handle Alu-machining
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[13:57:45] <frallzor> allt goes fine until the cutting parts end
[13:57:54] <frallzor> I allways forget to put that info in
[13:59:40] <Valen> return to home through the part and the vice?
[14:13:56] <frallzor> seems like It tried to mill with the shaft being below surface top
[14:14:12] <frallzor> and therefore making more heat than it could handle
[14:14:12] <Valen> that'll cause problems too
[14:14:28] <frallzor> resulting in gooey Alu and super break of the carbide tool =)
[14:15:09] <frallzor> its allways fun to se a broken carbide tool, never think one can result in soooo many small pieces
[14:16:04] <Valen> ours always snap in 2
[14:16:08] <Valen> with a few chips
[14:19:23] <frallzor> you never thing about these things when milling plastic/wood
[14:19:30] <frallzor> *think
[14:19:40] <frallzor> need a new state of mind for Alu it seems =)
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[14:56:51] <archivist> frallzor, clearing the chips and not recutting are things to watch with ally
[14:57:22] <archivist> the right lubricant helps
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[15:25:18] <frallzor> clearing isnt an issue, they fly like hell =)
[15:53:35] <archivist> dont confuse some flying with success, some may be sticking and being re cut
[15:58:05] <archivist> how deep are you cutting per pass
[15:58:31] <archivist> and how deep are you attempting to get
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[16:00:43] <archivist> I think this thread covers a lot http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/endmill-breakage-feeds-speeds-depth-cut-118495/
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[16:08:00] <frallzor> are there any cons using arcs?
[16:08:28] <frallzor> seems the mach2 generis PP for HMS played ball better than my current emc2 arcs enabled PP
[16:16:14] <fragalot> urgh
[16:16:28] <fragalot> configure machine for home switches, everything works, reboot machine and do something else
[16:16:33] <fragalot> X axis moves in the wrong direction
[16:16:55] <fragalot> .... change the velocity to the negative number, moves in right direction, doesn't stop at limit switch
[16:18:11] <fragalot> hm, must be the switch acting up.. I just triggered it manually and everything worked ok the next time
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[16:25:33] <SolarNRG> Kick me if you think I'm a cheeky twat but... whose faster at making gears than your $2,000 machines? GEAR MADNESS: http://i.imgur.com/OC5Hi.jpg
[16:26:01] <SolarNRG> Cost $80 to make
[16:26:05] <SolarNRG> equivalent
[16:26:32] <SolarNRG> Per gear, maybe $3
[16:26:51] <SolarNRG> The answer is platinum cure
[16:26:57] <SolarNRG> Its awesome!
[16:27:02] <SolarNRG> IT flexes
[16:27:09] <SolarNRG> So you can pop the gear out
[16:27:12] <SolarNRG> ZERO SHRINKAGE
[16:27:27] <SolarNRG> All your warped surfaces problems gone for good and repeatably as shown
[16:27:45] <SolarNRG> I can even make you ANY gear mold you want, this example was designed on Openscad
[16:27:54] <SolarNRG> It was 3d printed!
[16:28:10] <SolarNRG> And it has been re-replicated at cost and time efficiency
[16:28:17] <SolarNRG> The original took 11 hours to make
[16:28:28] <SolarNRG> The mold about 2 days
[16:28:42] <SolarNRG> Then after that a mold can be made in 3 to 4 hours.
[16:29:15] <SolarNRG> Melting now takes no time at all with my bain marie style wax copying
[16:29:50] <SolarNRG> The wax copies are then coated in a special high temperature foundry plaster and baked, the wax is first melted out adn then the wax is recycled
[16:30:00] <SolarNRG> The negative mold is then baked again
[16:30:06] <SolarNRG> then molten steel is poured in
[16:30:24] <SolarNRG> There are 4 copes and drags per surface (added later) to minimize shrinkage
[16:30:41] <SolarNRG> In a tough economy, tough economical measures of production must be taken seriouslt
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[16:56:15] <frallzor> no good if you need metal gearing =P
[16:57:50] <frallzor> pretty sure most gears are molded that arent metal =)
[16:58:11] <SolarNRG> Hey, I'll send you a couple if you wanna check em out and you doubt my utterly brilliantness?
[16:59:13] <frallzor> nah, no need, never make things with gears =)
[16:59:26] <frallzor> im into modelmaking/prototyping
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[17:22:53] <frallzor> http://www.lolz.se/uploader/pics/IMG_3975.jpg now Im just playing it safe!
[17:23:04] <frallzor> but it ended fine atleast =P
[17:27:42] <SolarNRG> It looks parabolic!
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[17:32:51] <gene77> Hey guys, have the bigger motor up and running on the X axis of my lathe, but a calibration question.
[17:33:29] <gene77> When in G7 mode, an incremental move of .1" s/b a .050 at the toolpost, right?
[17:34:55] <gene77> When in G7 mode, an incremental JOG move of .1" s/b a .050 at the toolpost, right?
[17:35:06] <archivist> are you in diameter mode or radius mode
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[17:35:32] <archivist> cue penny dropping sound
[17:35:41] <pcw_home> clink
[17:35:45] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[17:36:07] <cradek> G7 means diameter
[17:36:24] <cradek> G7 G91 G0 X0.1 should move X out 0.05
[17:36:52] <cradek> a jog of 0.1 increment will move X 0.1
[17:37:27] <cradek> jogging doesn't know or care about radius or diameter
[17:37:55] <gene77> So my scale is off by 50% then, thanks Chris
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[17:40:56] <gene77> And if the motor does a wheeeoooo at start of a rapid, I am out of stepgen headroom?
[17:41:52] <pcw_home> is that a technical term?
[17:42:37] <gene77> sortof, meaning at a 24 us loop, its up against the stepgen max frequency
[17:44:20] <pcw_home> Is this just a noise issue or is it stalling?
[17:49:09] <gene77> No stalling, I finally found a joint following error at 33.4 ipm. I think I can hear the ripple in the psu too during the backlash catchup time as I exercise it
[17:51:12] <gene77> The motor is actually running below its current as 4.2 amps is all this driver can muster. This is with a 1600 scale in the driver, I think I'll try 1000 next.
[17:52:27] <gene77> Its a 5 amp motor, wired parallel, getting 4.2 amps. I may have to add some filters, or a bigger xformer. ;)
[17:55:55] <pcw_home> what drive and ustep setting?
[17:58:32] <gene77> drive is an 2M542, currently ustep currently 1000, and I finally got it to stall, near the end of a .6" move
[17:58:51] <gene77> at 33.7 ipm
[17:59:26] <gene77> .ini scale is 25400
[17:59:30] <fragalot> hmmmm
[17:59:54] <fragalot> prebuilt cnc kit.. rated current for stepper motors 1.8A .. measured current: 0.6A
[17:59:56] <IchGuckLive> gene77: this motor makes only 300RMP may at 400steps per Rev
[17:59:59] <gene77> metric screws, need mapped, running in inch mode
[18:00:09] <fragalot> would I risk setting it to the current its rated for?
[18:00:30] <fragalot> (at the moment they sometimes unpredictably stall)
[18:01:00] <IchGuckLive> gene77: it will stale over this value at the 2Nm torche value
[18:01:23] <fragalot> measured current with a multimeter.. not sure how well that works with chopped currents...
[18:01:54] <gene77> 4.2 amps is the the 2m542 can do, and 300 rpms are about what I am seeing. Yes, I intend, once I know what I'm doing, to set it down to a max of 30 ipm or less
[18:02:26] <IchGuckLive> do you got the chart for the steppers ?
[18:02:47] <frallzor> I wonder how my CAM-software is thinking
[18:02:59] <gene77> Not for this particular motor
[18:03:00] <IchGuckLive> gene77: http://de.nanotec.com/images/graphik/341_neu.png
[18:03:10] <frallzor> it can mill all the way out in a pocket, despite the shaft being 6mm and the cutters 5mm
[18:03:35] <fragalot> only box I have available atm is the cnc controller ...god this is slow to browse the web with lol\
[18:04:21] <gene77> Stop linuxcnc & you'll gain a little speed ;-)
[18:04:21] <IchGuckLive> gene77: are you on 48V
[18:05:04] <gene77> no, 41, loaded to probably 39 in operation. Transformers are hard to find.
[18:05:31] <IchGuckLive> Meanwell 320Wat at 48V for 25USD
[18:05:47] <IchGuckLive> cased
[18:06:37] <gene77> actually 37.8 with this load on it. :(
[18:07:14] <IchGuckLive> ok 39 is good also and parallel for better torche WHy do you need 1600 pulses per rev on pitch ?
[18:07:43] <gene77> Where, and will it take the noise from the the driverrs without tripping off?
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[18:08:24] <gene77> I have had that sort of problems with switcher running that close to their ratings.
[18:08:26] <IchGuckLive> example on trapezional TR20x4 you need 400Steps for 0.01mm Thats 0,00039 inch
[18:08:49] <gene77> I'm down to 1000 now.
[18:09:31] <Loetmichel> so, the chinese has delivered, now i can make two little milling motors ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13212
[18:09:41] <IchGuckLive> the noice is the chopper frequency on the M542 you can change this inside by flexresistor poti
[18:10:42] <pcw_home> 1000 steps/turn = 5 usteps? sounds s little strange
[18:10:51] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: nice what price
[18:11:23] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: agree on that type of motor
[18:11:47] <IchGuckLive> 400 requirerd at lest 800
[18:12:20] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: about 80 eur complete for 1 set collets, 1 1/8", 1 6mm collet extra and two holders with 8mm shaft
[18:12:59] <IchGuckLive> whow thats cool
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[18:15:57] <cei> When I run the stepconf for initially setting up a system, inputing multiple parallel port doesn't seem to let me link commands to pins for each port. What am I missing?
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[18:17:00] <IchGuckLive> cei: what system / Version
[18:17:22] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: spindle will be looking this way when done-> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12846
[18:17:34] <cei> linux cnc 2.5.0 on ubuntu 10.04
[18:17:37] <Loetmichel> just with a er1 collet instead of the proxxon shaft
[18:17:41] <A2Sheds> is there a list somewhere of what is in a typical machine shop? let say you wanted to spend $$ and you needed to fill it with machine tools
[18:18:00] <Loetmichel> 200W 12V
[18:18:09] <Loetmichel> 24kROM
[18:18:11] <Loetmichel> RPM
[18:18:48] <IchGuckLive> cei 2.5.0 from livecd or from GIT PPa
[18:18:53] <Loetmichel> and of course with a hull over the square part, mussing in the foto ;)
[18:18:59] <cei> IchGuckLive, livecd
[18:19:06] <IchGuckLive> http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/
[18:19:22] <cei> IchGuckLive, rather, install 2.4.7 from livecd then upgraded to 2.5
[18:20:05] <IchGuckLive> cei did you add the ppa to the synaptic ?
[18:20:26] <Loetmichel> i am just thinking how to get a 2 or 3 speed gearbox in there ;-=
[18:20:28] <Loetmichel> )
[18:20:34] <cei> IchGuckLive, yes. Forgot about the upgrade sorry
[18:20:49] <andypugh> A2Sheds: It would depend on what was being made, but I would think lathe, miller, power hacksaw would be starting points.
[18:21:19] <IchGuckLive> cei: the stepconfwizard is changining last weks so quickly also pncconf
[18:21:48] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: the PWM will do the rest
[18:22:05] <cei> IchGuckLive, Im sorry, I don't know what you meant
[18:22:32] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: no, not for M6 taps ;-)
[18:22:51] <IchGuckLive> cei: open synaptic go to packetsource and add 3rd party deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ lucid v2.5_branch-rt
[18:23:05] <A2Sheds> andypugh, yeah, general machine shop to handle protos in steel and aluminum, was actually looking through tools lists from machine shops,, I know what I'd need but it's funny when somebody asks you for a list
[18:23:29] <andypugh> Welding? You probably want a bench grinder too.
[18:23:32] <cei> IchGuckLive, ok, let me go do that
[18:23:41] <andypugh> Maybe a surface and cylindrical grinders.
[18:23:46] <A2Sheds> and then think of all the tooling
[18:23:48] <andypugh> Inspection equipment?
[18:23:50] <gene77> Just noticed something else I've been meaning to check. Running a G76 cycle, cutting air ATM, the retrace motion is slowly turning the x axis inwards from the end of cut backup as it moves back to the start line
[18:24:03] <IchGuckLive> cei: update the packets by reload button and then add LINUXCNC
[18:24:06] <A2Sheds> yeah, found some big shops with long equipment lists
[18:24:08] <IchGuckLive> not EMC2
[18:24:27] <gene77> Is this intended behaviour?
[18:24:31] <IchGuckLive> cei: not EMC2
[18:24:32] <A2Sheds> andypugh, did you see that article yesterday on combustion efficiency?
[18:25:06] <andypugh> Yes. I was intereested to see what they were claiming as novel.
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[18:28:12] <IchGuckLive> ok sorry im off soccer Final here in germany
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[18:29:06] <A2Sheds> air compressors, welders, lather, mills, grinders, saws, drills, the list actualy gets pretty long
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[18:35:43] <fragalot> gotta love lather
[18:41:26] <ScribbleJ> lather, rinse, repeat!
[18:43:41] <archivist> just dont keep count of the toys, or allow the wife see them arriving
[18:44:53] <A2Sheds> I'm putting together a business plan, need a detailed list
[18:45:32] <archivist> except then the bank will secure loan on said list
[18:46:10] <archivist> I think banks have stronger claws than wives!
[18:46:17] <A2Sheds> heh, not for a loan
[18:46:23] <gene77> That is why I pay cash guys
[18:46:36] <A2Sheds> no loans, grants
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[19:22:08] <jymmm> andypugh: Found autostic via google cache at enco, now their website is offline! lol
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[19:30:59] <jymmm> andypugh: dissolves in water AFTER curing??? http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=2643&PMITEM=00322792&PMCTLG=00
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[19:56:44] <andypugh> Were you planning on washing it?
[19:57:22] <andypugh> It's quite expensive though, fire cement is probably good enough.
[20:02:50] <jymmm> andypugh: Well, not necessarily, but if I was just doing general cleaning, etc. =)
[20:06:00] <jymmm> andypugh: I was jsut surprised it disolved after curing is all
[20:09:55] <bostjan_2> Hello! Need help with camera on axis interface. Anyone familiar? On page http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Axis_Embed_Video there is howto, but i dont know where is .axissrc??? Download this file and place code from it in your .axisrc
[20:09:56] <bostjan_2> upload:axisrc-dynamic-tabs
[20:10:10] <bostjan_2> .axisrc
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[20:19:31] <andypugh> bostjan_2: You just need to create the .axisrc file in your home directory
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[20:19:59] <andypugh> It is an invisible file (begins with a dot)
[20:20:21] <andypugh> But you can create a text file in gedit and give it that name, and save to your home directory.
[20:22:08] <bostjan_2> but then i would not see it again??
[20:22:34] <bostjan_2> sorry, im not from linux world...
[20:24:46] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[20:25:31] <andypugh> You can see it if you turn on "show hidden files" which is a right-click option in the file select dialog (or a checkbox sometimes)
[20:25:55] <andypugh> (And I am not from the Linux world either)
[20:26:11] <bostjan_2> tnx. Found. So, now i create folder .axisrc and there put the file??
[20:27:29] <mrsun> gah im hopeless
[20:27:32] <mrsun> i should not own stuff
[20:27:37] <andypugh> No, .axisrc is the file name, so put the text from the example in that file
[20:27:54] <mrsun> just got the quick change holder on the lathe today, well now the lathe is in pieces waiting to get gear tooths repaired ... :P
[20:28:12] <andypugh> Oh der
[20:28:16] <andypugh> (dear, even)
[20:28:48] <andypugh> How bad is it? You might be able to drill where the missing tooth is and put a couple of pegs in.
[20:28:53] <mrsun> and i got to see how my bushing looks that i made before, still looks like the day i made it =)
[20:28:54] <andypugh> (then file them to shape)
[20:29:23] <mrsun> andypugh, one of the gears are missing 1 tooth, the other 2 tooths .. in different places
[20:29:38] <andypugh> Ah. Can you get spares?
[20:29:40] <mrsun> need to make guards for those gears
[20:30:05] <mrsun> andypugh, gears ? .. no ... its a real old south bend clone, might be able to get spares but dont know where to look
[20:30:19] <andypugh> The peg bodge will work as long as there are no missing pairs of teeth
[20:30:46] <mrsun> andypugh, cant i just put pegs and like silver solder the "mass" up and cut out new teeth ? :)
[20:30:50] <mrsun> to make it more solid
[20:31:02] <andypugh> Which gears are they?
[20:31:11] <mrsun> the two on the spindle, that connects to the back gear
[20:31:26] <andypugh> So, you can only use high speed?
[20:31:55] <mrsun> andypugh, i can use them ... but doesnt feel right to have two quite small gears that doesnt mesh in very many teeth running with teeth missing :/
[20:32:37] <archivist> mrsun, measure the od and teeth qty
[20:33:08] <mrsun> one of the gears are aparently pressed into the aluminium step pulley also
[20:33:43] <mrsun> archivist, and theen ? :)
[20:34:18] <archivist> we can work out the dp and how easy it is to replace
[20:34:20] <andypugh> What material are they?
[20:34:31] <archivist> should be steel
[20:34:49] <archivist> I have a southbend here :)
[20:34:50] <andypugh> Might be cast iron
[20:34:55] <mrsun> andypugh, atleast one of them is cast
[20:35:00] <mrsun> the big one
[20:35:06] <mrsun> the smaller one i guess could be ordenary steel
[20:35:14] <mrsun> (the one that is connected to the pulley)
[20:35:49] <mrsun> i think the whole thing is a south bend in reality atleast the spindle part
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[20:36:16] <mrsun> http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-ORIGINAL-SOUTH-BEND-9-10K-METAL-LATHE-HEADSTOCK-SPINDLE-BULL-GEAR-/370614229257?_trksid=p4340.m185&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC.NPJS%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D5%26pmod%3D150804618592%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8533483636694039109#ht_500wt_1056 looks exactly like that, the big one
[20:36:46] <andypugh> So buy that one?
[20:37:28] <archivist> there are different sized southbends
[20:37:30] <mrsun> andypugh, have to check so its the right thing, and its money :/
[20:40:00] <mrsun> and can be a good exercise to learn to fix gear teeth =)
[20:40:19] <archivist> anyway you have a mill make a new gear complete
[20:40:34] <andypugh> Well, knowing that a spare is available makes it less frightening to try the fix
[20:40:50] <mrsun> andypugh, haha true =)
[20:41:17] <archivist> will be good enough to flycut using a hand ground tool to the old gear profile
[20:42:10] <mrsun> archivist, yeah found one that used the actual lathe as a shaper to cut his tooth also for a gear =)
[20:43:12] <archivist> I have riveted in new teeth and filed them up to repair clock gears
[20:44:08] <archivist> usually only do that for posh clocks, cheap stuff make a new gear as not a museum piece
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[20:48:40] <mrsun> any tips on reducing gear train noice?
[20:48:43] <mrsun> noise
[20:49:36] <archivist> replace the train with helical gears
[20:49:55] <mrsun> ough
[20:49:58] <mrsun> sounds expensive :P
[20:51:38] <archivist> check wear on gear locations (reverser) as spacing could be incorrect and causing noise, but involutes should not care about spacing except when worn out
[20:52:07] <SolarNRG> I mould gears, maybe I can mould helical ones
[20:52:21] <archivist> mine is noisy as hell too, but it is an old camel from ww2
[20:52:53] <SolarNRG> You tell me what you want, I'll make you as many of these parts as you want for a fee
[20:53:12] <archivist> heh, I AM a gear maker
[20:53:23] <SolarNRG> indeed!
[20:53:27] <andypugh> Me too!
[20:53:34] <mrsun> archivist, the gear on the actual back of the spindle is extremly worn ... :/
[20:53:59] <SolarNRG> I'm more on a mass production side than the precision machine side. But if you can CNC a prototype or 3d print a prototype I can make replicas of them
[20:54:27] <archivist> dreaming again I see
[20:54:51] <SolarNRG> I'm sat on a giant pile of self made gears and PROUD
[20:55:04] <SolarNRG> http://i.imgur.com/OC5Hi.jpg
[20:55:05] <SolarNRG> Look
[20:55:28] <SolarNRG> I currently have 2 types of gear in productino
[20:55:33] <mrsun> http://theageofindustry.com/sites/theageofindustry.com/files/geartrain.jpg those gears on the spindle shaft is worn like hell on mine .. dont know how they have managed to wear them down so much :/
[20:55:48] <archivist> out of focus
[20:56:02] <SolarNRG> Mrsun, I propose an alloy gear, far more sheer and bend resistant
[20:56:12] <SolarNRG> As they spin they microscopically warp in and out
[20:56:20] <SolarNRG> from the conservation of momentum
[20:56:30] <SolarNRG> And there will always be an imbalance of some kind in gears
[20:56:46] <SolarNRG> you can reduce it
[20:56:58] <SolarNRG> better more accurate designs and production
[20:57:08] <SolarNRG> Its a trial and error process
[20:57:22] <SolarNRG> If that didn't work, change the prototype a bit remold it
[20:58:08] <bostjan_2> andypugh: i have managed, but i have a plenty of errors now..
[20:58:30] <mrsun> and my guess is that a repair of those gears isnt very easy .. and a whole new spindle my guess is expensive =)
[20:58:49] <bostjan_2> Traceback says :
[20:58:50] <bostjan_2> andypugh
[20:59:21] <andypugh> Interesting errors?
[20:59:35] <bostjan_2> TypeError: 'Popen' object is not iterable
[20:59:47] <bostjan_2> Sorry!
[20:59:51] <archivist> mrsun, is that a picture of yours?
[21:00:10] <mrsun> archivist, no, can get a picture tomorrow, its horrid ... =)
[21:00:38] <mrsun> they must have had the forward/back lever in some odd position some time and just "milled" the teeth of with those gears or something
[21:00:38] <andypugh> I am not at all familiar with python
[21:00:48] <mrsun> its cant be normal wear =)
[21:00:50] <archivist> I have not looked at mine for many many years
[21:01:00] <bostjan_2> andypugh: the problem i have is that i dont have Axis values in image window..
[21:01:31] <jymmm> andypugh: If you can do c/c++ you can easily do python =)
[21:01:33] <archivist> mrsun, define normal, some lathes are on production work and get hammered
[21:01:55] <mrsun> archivist, yeah but nothing else is worn so badly
[21:02:09] <mrsun> or yeah .. the leadscrew is in kinda bad shape also
[21:02:17] <mrsun> so i guess it could be =)
[21:03:04] <archivist> mrsun, also look for v wear on the bed, mine has sunk a bit
[21:03:06] <andypugh> bostjan_2: You might need to come back when psha is online.
[21:03:19] <andypugh> I got the camera working, but it was a bit hit-and-miss
[21:03:20] <mrsun> archivist, how would i detect that? :)
[21:03:31] <mrsun> is it usaly visible to the eye ?
[21:03:41] <mrsun> the V grooves looks very nice when just looking at them atleast =)
[21:04:16] <andypugh> bostjan_2: Which LinuxCNC version do you have?
[21:04:28] <archivist> mrsun, tow ways a level on the saddle as you ride up and down, or finger nail on the ridge of the wear
[21:04:51] <archivist> saddle wears too
[21:05:10] <andypugh> bostjan_2: Anyway, all I can suggest is reading that Wiki page and the links. I am not really the right guy to be trying to help.
[21:05:13] <bostjan_2> andypugh:2.5 and 10.04 lucid.. I have image, crosshair, circle,đ
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[21:06:00] <bostjan_2> doesnt matter, i appreciate your help (sorry, bad English). i will try to contacr psha..
[21:06:23] <mrsun> damn just remembered i found a company that holds old stock of replacement parts for this lathe in sweden =)
[21:06:39] <mrsun> maybe should give them a call on monday and see what parts they have and the prices of them =)
[21:06:56] <mrsun> stupid people take like 50$ for the catalog with the spare parts :/
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[21:28:14] <alex4nder> hey
[21:30:47] <ReadError> sup
[21:31:07] <ReadError> i think my chips are getting welded ;/
[21:31:08] <alex4nder> not a lot, got my new 12v power supply for the mill, and the SSRs to control the spindle and coolant pump
[21:31:29] <alex4nder> ReadError: do you see chips in the endmill?
[21:31:38] <alex4nder> I mean, like aluminum nuggets
[21:31:49] <ReadError> i scrapped one out i think
[21:31:51] <ReadError> tiny spec
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[21:31:58] <alex4nder> was it hard to get out?
[21:31:59] <ReadError> but the outside, or inside of my cut
[21:31:59] <alex4nder> "hard"
[21:32:04] <ReadError> is like, fuzzy
[21:32:10] <alex4nder> oh, like it smeared?
[21:32:13] <ReadError> like the chips are hairs standing straight up
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[21:32:36] <alex4nder> what are your feeds and speeds?
[21:33:07] <ReadError> 1.7imp
[21:33:13] <ReadError> ipm
[21:33:24] <ReadError> not sure the spindle speed
[21:33:28] <ReadError> its right above the middle
[21:33:38] <ReadError> i can get a pic 1 min
[21:35:07] <alex4nder> what size endmill?
[21:35:39] <Tom_itx> ReadError are you milling copper?
[21:35:47] <Tom_itx> copper is 'stringy'
[21:36:38] <alex4nder> ReadError: your feed rate is really low
[21:36:39] <Tom_itx> if it's aluminum it's probably O material and that also sucks to mill
[21:37:06] <alex4nder> how hot is your endmill getting
[21:38:01] <jymmm> I asked ReadError what material 6 hours ago, still hasn't said what it is
[21:38:15] <alex4nder> jymmm: maybe you offended him
[21:38:27] <alex4nder> it's .1875" aluminum IIRC
[21:38:39] <jymmm> alex4nder: maybe you offended me?
[21:38:46] <alex4nder> jymmm: please say so.
[21:38:54] * Tom_itx offends jymmm on purpose
[21:38:54] <jymmm> why?
[21:38:55] <alex4nder> I have small goals in life, and that's one of them.
[21:39:09] <jymmm> Tom_itx: Yes, I know.
[21:39:12] <Tom_itx> :D
[21:39:19] <Tom_itx> it's all good
[21:39:19] <jymmm> alex4nder: gee thanks
[21:39:20] <ReadError> https://p.twimg.com/AtSfOrGCIAIGP9h.jpg:large
[21:39:23] <alex4nder> jymmm: :(
[21:39:26] <alex4nder> hugs
[21:39:36] <alex4nder> uh yah
[21:39:36] <ReadError> i was asleep then i think jymmm :)
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[21:39:54] <alex4nder> dude
[21:39:55] <ReadError> its like fuzzy
[21:39:57] <Tom_itx> well you're not asleep now and i just asked
[21:40:02] <jymmm> ReadError: are you asleep now?
[21:40:13] <ReadError> oh no i just ran downstairs
[21:40:15] <ReadError> to get the pic
[21:40:20] <ReadError> after i said pic 1 min
[21:40:22] <ReadError> then i post
[21:40:25] <ReadError> now im back ;)
[21:40:25] <jymmm> ReadError: WHAT material?
[21:40:30] <alex4nder> you're doing entire DoC?
[21:40:30] <ReadError> 6061
[21:40:32] <Tom_itx> i know what metal looks like
[21:40:33] <jymmm> ty
[21:40:42] <alex4nder> and just letting the mill plow through it?
[21:40:43] <Tom_itx> what hardness?
[21:40:49] <ReadError> yea
[21:40:55] <Tom_itx> T3 T6?
[21:40:56] <ReadError> 6061-t6
[21:40:57] <ReadError> i think
[21:41:06] <alex4nder> I bet your endmill is getting really hot
[21:41:12] <Tom_itx> then your feeds are all wrong or you got a dull cutter
[21:41:17] <ReadError> ya i wore the coating down
[21:41:20] <alex4nder> ok
[21:41:24] <ReadError> i put a brand new one on before Tom_itx
[21:41:26] <Tom_itx> toss that one
[21:41:33] <ReadError> it was brand new before i started
[21:41:39] <ReadError> and happened after the 1st cut
[21:41:42] <alex4nder> yes
[21:41:45] <alex4nder> you're burning it up
[21:41:46] <ReadError> niagara cutter, 3F
[21:41:52] <ReadError> so am i going to fast?
[21:41:53] <alex4nder> I bet it got hot as shit
[21:41:54] <alex4nder> no,
[21:41:56] <alex4nder> too slow
[21:41:58] <alex4nder> way too slow
[21:42:05] <ReadError> ohh
[21:42:13] <Tom_itx> aluminum should cut like butter if it's set right
[21:42:21] <ReadError> it sounded kinda scary when it was turning
[21:42:23] <alex4nder> ReadError: heat is removed from endmill by the chip of metal.. at that feed rate, and that spindle speed, you're creating aluminum dust.
[21:42:23] <Tom_itx> especially with carbide
[21:42:27] <ReadError> when i was at a higher speed
[21:42:34] <ReadError> wasnt sure if that sound was normal
[21:42:40] <alex4nder> you can't just plunge the endmill into the material
[21:42:53] <alex4nder> you have to do multiple passes
[21:42:55] <Tom_itx> yeah and if you do, make sure it's a center cutting endmill
[21:42:57] <Tom_itx> not all are.
[21:43:02] <ReadError> ahh
[21:43:10] <ReadError> so like 1/2 the depth? but 2 cuts
[21:43:16] <Tom_itx> i generally ramp in if i need to plunge or drill a hole first
[21:43:23] <alex4nder> ReadError: watch my spiral video.
[21:43:31] <alex4nder> look at the chip size
[21:43:36] <ReadError> yea much larger
[21:44:04] <ReadError> other than that, they can out how i expected ;)
[21:44:08] <Tom_itx> find a feed and speed chart online for different materials and use it
[21:44:10] <ReadError> should work for what im doing
[21:44:14] <Tom_itx> look at chip loads
[21:44:28] <ReadError> well i was told each endmill had a datasheet
[21:44:33] <ReadError> but was unable to locate any for mine
[21:44:39] <ReadError> they are pretty cheap though, 10$
[21:44:48] <Tom_itx> call your local tool rep
[21:44:50] <Tom_itx> he knows
[21:45:08] <alex4nder> ReadError: you can ballpark it and be fine
[21:45:12] <Tom_itx> he was always coming by trying to sell us his new 'stuff'
[21:45:20] <ReadError> Tom_itx: amazon ;)
[21:45:29] <Tom_itx> go figure
[21:46:15] <Tom_itx> how many flutes do your cutters have?
[21:46:18] <alex4nder> ReadError: how big is the endmill?
[21:46:27] <ReadError> 0.125
[21:46:34] <ReadError> that was a 3F Tom_itx
[21:46:36] <Tom_itx> i use 4 on steel and 2 or 3 on aluminum
[21:46:52] <Tom_itx> 2 might work better
[21:47:08] <ReadError> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003BIEUZY/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00
[21:47:15] <Tom_itx> the chips coming off will be bigger than on steel
[21:48:25] <Tom_itx> i don't like 3 flute in general simply because you can't mic them to see how worn they are
[21:51:24] <alex4nder> ReadError: your feed per tooth is like .00014
[21:51:32] <alex4nder> it should probably be closer to .002
[21:51:44] <Tom_itx> or .004
[21:51:47] <Tom_itx> for alum
[21:51:53] <Tom_itx> somewhere in there
[21:52:02] <alex4nder> yah
[21:52:13] <Tom_itx> depending what the machine can take
[21:52:49] <Tom_itx> then it's a matter of watching the spindle load meter on the machine
[21:52:55] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: he's on a taig
[21:52:58] <alex4nder> let's not get crazy
[21:53:25] <alex4nder> Tom_itx: speaking of which, are those spindle load meters usually just displaying current consumption?
[21:53:33] <Tom_itx> i watched a Mori once flycutting a steel plate at 1/4" a pass with a 5" flycutter with carbide inserts, no coolant and the chips were flying off white hot
[21:53:57] <Tom_itx> sticking to the paint inside the machining center
[21:54:09] <alex4nder> hah
[21:56:05] <Tom_itx> carbide loves heat
[21:56:56] <Tom_itx> i think the hardest stuff we ever tried to mill was some tungsten ballast for some airplane wings
[21:57:12] <Tom_itx> if you weren't careful you'd crack it
[21:57:22] <alex4nder> did that work harden?
[21:57:22] <Tom_itx> and if you dropped it you were doomed for sure
[21:57:34] <Tom_itx> we cut it with tungsten carbide
[21:57:43] <Tom_itx> not so much that i remember
[21:58:16] <Tom_itx> the tool guy found us some really good inserts
[22:04:00] <frallzor> which is best for smoothes motion via
[22:04:08] <frallzor> EMC, arcs or non-arcs?
[22:04:57] <frallzor> just seems like somethings when doing something simple as a circle the motion isnt fluid
[22:05:12] <frallzor> *sometimes
[22:05:32] <alex4nder> you mean because it pauses at the end of its motion?
[22:05:46] <frallzor> sometimes durin too it feels like
[22:05:48] <frallzor> *g
[22:06:20] <alex4nder> is your control setup missing steps?
[22:06:31] <frallzor> nope
[22:07:01] <frallzor> im pretty certain its related to code somehow
[22:07:33] <frallzor> like when milling alu today, helixmotion for clearing was smooth, but circles feelt like allways
[22:09:43] <frallzor> pretty sure the PP for mach2 I used yesterday when EMC PP was behaving oddly felt better
[22:09:55] <frallzor> and now when using EMC PP with arcs its like this
[22:09:56] <ReadError> i need to get a set of those used drill bits on fleabay
[22:10:31] <alex4nder> why not buy a new full index?
[22:11:47] <frallzor> "The generic EMC assumes that you are using incremental arc center mode. If you are using absolute arc center mode then the arcs would be wrong.
[22:11:56] <ReadError> not sure what that is alex_joni
[22:11:58] <ReadError> alex4nder
[22:11:59] <frallzor> what is the difference between those two modes?
[22:14:37] <alex4nder> ReadError: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4150&category=-456343308
[22:17:37] <frallzor> JT-Shop here? =)
[22:23:45] <ReadError> http://www.ebay.com/itm/150729671178?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648#ht_4066wt_1382
[22:25:17] <alex4nder> oh, you want mini ones.
[22:27:39] <ReadError> well ill need some for PCB work too
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[22:37:42] <andypugh> frallzor: You can either give the arc centre as offset from the arc start, or absolute position in the current coordinate system
[22:38:24] <frallzor> what is the main difference?
[22:40:12] <andypugh> The numbers
[22:40:54] <frallzor> was talking to a friend that said something about "choppyness" with some mode that was fixed by switching modes
[22:40:58] <Tom_itx> does that have anything to do with G90 G91 mode?
[22:41:19] <andypugh> No
[22:41:42] <andypugh> Or yes. Depending on which question I am answering
[22:43:40] <Tom_itx> did gene get his steppers figured out?
[22:44:03] <frallzor> andypugh yes or no about choppyness or not to that? =P
[22:45:07] <andypugh> No to choppiness, yes to G90.1
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[22:45:29] <frallzor> any idea on what can fix that when just changing modes?
[22:45:51] <frallzor> my friend said that circles were choppy on a new machine and they changed some "mode"
[22:46:10] <frallzor> or probably all motion that isnt just straight lines
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[22:54:22] <Aero-Tec> anyone use EMC for water jet machine?
[22:54:57] <Aero-Tec> has anyone made or even played with water jet?
[22:55:20] <frallzor> considering the pressure needed Im sure noone will make one
[22:56:11] <Aero-Tec> no one?
[22:56:26] <Aero-Tec> funny thing is I would like to try and make one
[22:56:44] <frallzor> good luck then =)
[22:56:49] <Aero-Tec> so I guess some one will, if not me someone else
[22:57:09] <Aero-Tec> how hard can it be?
[22:57:38] <pfred1> pretty hard
[22:57:45] <Aero-Tec> high water pressure is safe to work with
[22:57:52] <alex4nder> well, someone had to make one
[22:57:55] <alex4nder> originally. ;)
[22:57:56] <pfred1> yeah if you don't like fingers
[22:58:00] <frallzor> lets just say that say pressure is enough to make things fly through your body =)
[22:58:01] <Aero-Tec> no explosions to worry about
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[22:58:25] <pfred1> water jets will cut through a foot of steel how dangerious can they be?
[22:58:30] <alex4nder> haha
[22:58:31] <Tom_itx> pop a line and you can sever a limb
[22:58:39] <Aero-Tec> lol
[22:58:43] <Aero-Tec> no
[22:58:50] <Aero-Tec> it does not work that way
[22:59:02] <frallzor> that why the compressor is as big as a house
[22:59:12] <frallzor> because of the low pressure needed
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[22:59:13] <Aero-Tec> pop a line and you get nothing but a little wet
[22:59:15] <pfred1> I met a guy with one he ran it 24/7 to keep the bank off his ass
[22:59:40] <Aero-Tec> now that is the problem with them
[22:59:50] <Aero-Tec> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[22:59:59] <pfred1> yeah they're real cool if you got a half a mil to blow
[23:00:01] <Aero-Tec> they are nuts expensive
[23:00:12] <frallzor> for a reason
[23:00:35] <Aero-Tec> and very high maintenance
[23:00:43] <pfred1> I have to say nothing cuts cleaner not evne lasers
[23:01:05] <Aero-Tec> they do not cut, they erode
[23:01:31] <pfred1> when you start out with part A and end up with parts C and C I'd say there is cutting going on
[23:01:39] <pfred1> B and C that is
[23:01:44] <Aero-Tec> the garnet gets added to the water jet and erodes the target away
[23:02:28] <Aero-Tec> the result is a cut, the action is erosion
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[23:02:51] <Aero-Tec> it is high pressure and low volume
[23:02:53] <pfred1> a cutting torch burns the steel it is still cutting going on
[23:03:25] <frallzor> a cut is a cut no matter what
[23:03:25] <pfred1> can't really torch cut stainless stuff don't burn right
[23:03:47] <pfred1> you can kinda go through it but it just isn't the same
[23:04:03] <andypugh> I can't see any reason that a LinuxCNC retrofit wouldn't be good for a waterjet, but building one from scratch sounds hard.
[23:04:09] <Aero-Tec> the thing with the expense is guys think it is dangerous and high tec
[23:04:28] <frallzor> andypugh pretty much impossible too :)
[23:04:33] <pfred1> get a pressure washer and thros some sand in see what happens
[23:04:48] <pfred1> maybe that is all there really is to it
[23:05:08] <Aero-Tec> and to a point it is high tec, to get the most out of it for the power, but is is not out of reach of us guys
[23:05:25] <andypugh> Anything which has been done can be done again. I don't see any reason that you couldn't make a waterjet, it would just be a lot of work
[23:05:39] <andypugh> The first guy to make one, made one, after all.
[23:05:54] <frallzor> probably was a company though =)
[23:05:59] <pfred1> yeah and he figured $500.000 was a nice round number
[23:06:00] <frallzor> with more resourses
[23:06:07] <frallzor> *resources even
[23:06:31] <Aero-Tec> not as much work as one might think
[23:06:38] <pfred1> the cut edges are beautiful like you sat there and sanded them by hand like forever
[23:06:41] <Aero-Tec> the work had been done
[23:06:55] <Aero-Tec> I can buy seal that I know work for the job
[23:07:06] <Aero-Tec> I do not have to redesign them
[23:07:22] <frallzor> why argue, prove us wrong instead =)
[23:07:24] <pfred1> let's put it this way if it was that easy to make them no one would get away with charging what they charge for the things
[23:07:45] <andypugh> I seem to recall that the idea was developed by a guy in a shed, actually.
[23:08:08] <pfred1> andypugh soe guys in sheds are pretty well equipped
[23:08:19] <andypugh> We try to be
[23:08:31] <pfred1> indeed you do
[23:08:36] <Aero-Tec> oh, BTW a good pressure washer will cut just like the real thing
[23:08:41] * pfred1 picked up some more equipment today
[23:08:47] <Aero-Tec> not as deep
[23:08:51] <Aero-Tec> not as fast
[23:09:01] <Aero-Tec> but it will cut if done right
[23:09:23] <Aero-Tec> the trick is the abrasive
[23:09:25] <pfred1> I met a guy at a craft show who had a jet he said he'd stack that steel up a foot high and have at it 1/4" plates
[23:09:49] <pfred1> sold each piece of his work for $300
[23:09:53] <pfred1> do the math
[23:09:54] <Aero-Tec> you have to add the abrasive to the flow and you will cut things with a pressure washer
[23:10:16] <frallzor> gotta be one hell of a washer then
[23:10:18] <pfred1> he also said he ran it 24/7/365 too
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[23:10:43] <pfred1> he had a bit of a scared look in his eyes
[23:11:00] <Aero-Tec> lol
[23:11:14] <Aero-Tec> can not run them that long and hard
[23:11:22] <pfred1> I'm sure if i was wearing a suit I'd have just seen his back as he was running away
[23:11:37] <Aero-Tec> they need a rebuild every 200 hours or so
[23:12:02] <Aero-Tec> not a cheap toy
[23:12:05] <pfred1> I hear the battery salvage biz is better
[23:12:23] <pfred1> them guys smile when the bankers show up
[23:12:38] <Aero-Tec> the big guys need speed and power, 100 to 200 HP pumps hammering away cutting things
[23:13:58] <pfred1> I stole the monotor off my CNC PC but I just got a new one for it
[23:14:05] <pfred1> monitor even
[23:14:24] * pfred1 is totally addicted to dual monitors now ...
[23:14:37] <Aero-Tec> but you can cut 1/4 steel with a pressure washer fitted with a garnet nozzle
[23:14:39] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Did you see: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_plasma_waterjet_machines/27852-home_build_water_jet_-.html
[23:15:07] <Aero-Tec> no but will check it out
[23:15:14] <Aero-Tec> how did it work out?
[23:15:25] <pfred1> Aero-Tec yeah but what happens when you stack 4 dozen of those plates on top of each other?
[23:15:55] <Aero-Tec> you cut very slowly
[23:16:01] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Some interesting things mentioned, and a link to a waterjet forum.
[23:16:02] <Aero-Tec> it can be done
[23:16:24] <andypugh> And lots of discussion about how nasty a waterjet injury is.
[23:16:30] <Aero-Tec> the cut may not look great with that many stacked up
[23:16:31] <pfred1> I see lots of homebrew plasma cutters
[23:17:00] <frallzor> cuts look the same
[23:17:03] <andypugh> I don't see many homebrew plasma torches though.
[23:17:09] <frallzor> but greater distance = angle
[23:17:15] <Aero-Tec> yes, a water jet cut can be very nasty
[23:17:34] <frallzor> exploding pipes too
[23:17:43] <Aero-Tec> the trick is not to get your hand in the way of the nozzle
[23:17:44] <andypugh> I think the difference is that you can buy a handheld plasma and CNC it, but you can't buy a handheld waterjet
[23:18:47] <Aero-Tec> frallzor: I was talking if you tried it with a pressure washer version
[23:19:07] <Aero-Tec> yes the real units can cut stacks with no problems
[23:19:08] <andypugh> We work woth 20,000psi diesel at work. I don't know of anyone actually getting hurt by it.
[23:19:31] <Aero-Tec> the pipes will not explode
[23:19:37] <Aero-Tec> they will bust
[23:19:43] <pfred1> andypugh nice to work with intelligent co-workers isn't it?
[23:19:58] <Aero-Tec> if your holding them when it does bust it could hurt you
[23:20:01] <andypugh> You can buy 20,000 psi flex piping off-the-shelf.
[23:20:43] <pfred1> I've heard about people blowing up their fingers trying to plug hydraulic leaks
[23:20:43] <Aero-Tec> if you know where to look you can get 50K plus off the shelf
[23:22:09] <Aero-Tec> that is different, a small split and high volume high pressure can cut
[23:22:22] <Aero-Tec> with water jut it is low volume
[23:22:31] <pfred1> yeah just a little pinhole squirt poof!
[23:22:49] <Aero-Tec> when it splits the pressure drops like a stone
[23:23:31] <Aero-Tec> I am not going to argue about it
[23:23:31] <pfred1> I always heard all kinds of horror stories about air tanks blowing up and i had one rot out on me it just hissed
[23:24:07] <pfred1> so some stuff is BS
[23:24:56] <andypugh> pfred1: Depends on the failure mode.
[23:25:21] <pfred1> this was a non ANSI tank and it just rotted through 125 PSI
[23:25:30] <pfred1> I welded it and it was fine
[23:26:05] <pfred1> one air tank I got has a date 1945 on it it is ANSI though
[23:26:20] <andypugh> I was involved in the investigation of a failure of a ball mill. Rocks + clay + sand + water churning round for several hours in a drum. The timer failed and it ran all night. It blew the end wall of a 3-floor factory out.
[23:27:08] <pfred1> ain't that just always the way some cheap part goes and it takes the whole shebang with it?
[23:27:36] <jdhNC> I've gotten He in bottles with 1930's hydro dates
[23:27:58] <pfred1> gotta love noble gasses
[23:28:13] <andypugh> http://asmedl.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=ASMECP002002019485000039000001&idtype=cvips&gifs=yes&ref=no
[23:29:06] <jdhNC> andy: are they run under pressure? what was it that exploded?
[23:29:21] <pfred1> I never heliarced I do like my argon though
[23:29:35] <pfred1> I have a 330cuft tank of it
[23:29:54] <jdhNC> I have 4 o2 and 4 He bottles
[23:30:15] <pfred1> after the 330 you have to get into pods
[23:30:46] <pfred1> big oxidizer bottles are usually 220 cuft
[23:30:53] <jdhNC> you can get HP argon, almost 2x the gas in the same size bottle
[23:31:23] <jdhNC> my o2 comes in 337ft^3 bottles
[23:31:25] <pfred1> my tanks comes with 2000+ PSI in it I don't think I'd want any higher pressure than that
[23:31:50] <pfred1> trick is to buy your gas on a cold day
[23:31:51] <jdhNC> normal is 2400 or 2640 (for 3aa steel bottles)
[23:31:56] <pfred1> then yo uget a little more :)
[23:34:52] <jdhNC> I don't care so much about volume, I just need more pressure for transfilling.
[23:34:59] <jdhNC> or a booster.
[23:35:16] <pfred1> neat how they make argon they freeze it out of the air
[23:36:20] <pfred1> once you put helium into the air it just drifts away
[23:36:23] <Tom_itx> huh
[23:36:48] <pfred1> argon is heavy enough it stays by the planet
[23:36:53] <jdhNC> yeah, sucks for the helium. I pay $12 for 337ft of o2, $95 for 320ft of helium
[23:36:56] <pfred1> helium isn't
[23:37:19] <pfred1> any helium we have we get from under rock ledges
[23:37:36] <pfred1> there is only a few places in the world yo ucan actually find the stuff
[23:38:12] <pfred1> evne if it is the second most abundent element in the Universe there ain't very much on Earth
[23:39:00] <jdhNC> we use it for tig welding at work. Two trailer tank things a week
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[23:39:20] <pfred1> well the original name for TIG welding was heli-arcing
[23:39:42] <pfred1> because back in the day I guess that is all anyone used
[23:40:28] <andypugh> Argon is a marvelous business to be in. You pull it out the air, sell it to people, and they put it back in the air exactly the same amount, totally unchanged.
[23:40:51] <pfred1> andypugh yup it takes a lot of energy to get it back out of the air again though
[23:41:23] <pfred1> it boils off at something like -187
[23:41:29] <andypugh> True, but it is probably the most sustainable industry
[23:41:49] <andypugh> Helium is likely to become a problem in the near future
[23:42:04] <pfred1> well we've found a couple more pockets of the stuff
[23:42:22] <pfred1> there are maybe 5 spots in the world
[23:42:34] <jdhNC> every year there is a big "helium is running out, suppliers cutting off balloon users/etc" event.
[23:42:36] <andypugh> But I think Indium is likely to be the first thing to run out. Then no more LCDs or touch-screens.
[23:42:57] <pfred1> I just scored another $5 flat screen
[23:43:15] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/zUAw8.jpg
[23:43:40] <jdhNC> and a ti30?
[23:43:56] <pfred1> yeah big run on Ti calcs today too a buck each
[23:44:34] <pfred1> I got one in my garage but I hate walking over to get it
[23:44:56] <pfred1> what a lazy American :)
[23:45:19] <jdhNC> I bought 68ft (rest of spool) of 22-4 stranded wire to use for hookups last week, tried to use it last night and it was solid
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[23:45:47] <Tom_itx> silly you
[23:46:05] <pfred1> I bought a spool if 14 MTW years ago I still have a bunch of it
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[23:47:01] <pfred1> jdhNC I haven't fired the old Ti30 up yet I hope it still works
[23:47:14] <jdhNC> havent seen one of those since... 1979?
[23:47:14] <pfred1> the Ti36 next to it works
[23:47:28] <pfred1> heck thing don't want to shut off
[23:48:05] <pfred1> man I remember when 7 segment red LEDs came out
[23:48:16] <pfred1> it really brings me back
[23:48:29] <jdhNC> cool... bet you were really glad when they came up with fire.
[23:48:44] <pfred1> just about
[23:49:13] <pfred1> I remember seeing Star Wars in a theatre and being blown away by the computer graphics
[23:49:21] <pfred1> today it looks like tic tac toe
[23:49:50] <jdhNC> how about watching the 'moon landing' on a b&w teevee?
[23:49:58] <pfred1> yup I remember that too
[23:50:12] <pfred1> it wasn't as thrilling because no one knew how much trouble they were really in
[23:50:26] <pfred1> it seemed totally under control at the time
[23:51:06] <pfred1> today we know the computer was crashed and he had 30 seconds of fuel to burn
[23:51:19] <pfred1> gutsy move to put it down
[23:51:48] <pfred1> you ever seen the footage of niel baling on the practice run?
[23:51:57] <pfred1> that was what got him the job
[23:52:09] <pfred1> that is insane!
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[23:54:54] <pfred1> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-gW6AdzgwU
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[23:56:41] <jdhNC> anyone have a config with a 7i37TA on a 7i43 (or any fpga card)
[23:58:53] <andypugh> Early start tomorrow guys, so goodnight.
[23:59:00] <pfred1> nite
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