#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-05-27

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[00:00:10] <atom1> but then who could tell in this spagetti
[00:01:08] <jdhNC> I pncconf'ed my setup originally. It put x,y,z on stepgens 0,2,3
[00:01:58] <atom1> i don't remember where i got the example but i started with a stepper example and did most of it manually
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[00:03:30] * jdhNC goes to attempt boring again.
[00:04:57] <r00t4rd3d> you got that down
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[00:12:23] <jdhNC> thought I did... until I tried to move Y with the gibs still locked down.
[00:15:16] <JT-Shop> damm I need to clean my desk off at least enough for a glass of wine
[00:16:23] <atom1> ok, only difference was i jumpered a set of wires for the old driver optos...
[00:16:28] * atom1 checks that
[00:21:49] <atom1> ok 3.2v when limit is tripped
[00:21:54] <atom1> 0 when not
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[00:24:49] <andypugh> 3.2 is a bit marginal, possibly. 3,3v parport>
[00:24:50] <andypugh> ?
[00:25:12] <atom1> i can change the resistor
[00:25:24] <atom1> it's being pulled off the mesa card power
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[00:26:17] <andypugh> Ah, those are 3.3V, bit 5V tolerant if jumpered correctly
[00:26:45] <atom1> iirc, i put a 1k on the line for those
[00:26:52] <atom1> as a precaution
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[00:27:41] <atom1> and reading my notes, i think the original control had the direction reversed on the drivers
[00:36:17] <JT-Shop> Draftsight is similar to acad except free
[00:37:26] <Keknom> Draftsight is just a clone of Acad2000....., its closer to Acad2000 than Acad 2012
[00:37:45] * JT-Shop hates using the config picker now :-( far too much clicking to see where to go
[00:41:09] <atom1> ok, limits are tripping now
[00:41:12] <atom1> mmm
[00:41:19] <atom1> didn't change anything
[00:42:46] <atom1> ok, it's a grounding issue between the mesa card and the new driver / psu setup
[00:42:50] <atom1> that explains it
[00:44:58] <andypugh> didn't I say that as the very first thing?
[00:46:01] <atom1> probably
[00:46:27] <atom1> it didn't show up until i disconnected the psu power and ran thru the switches manually
[00:46:39] <atom1> but i've got a ground wire running between them
[00:46:43] <atom1> apparently not enough
[00:48:28] <atom1> i need to mount the mesa cards etc all in an enclosure anyway. but i think this test was successful
[00:48:38] <JT-Shop> Keknom: seems to be much better than using qcad
[00:49:01] <atom1> i'll check the shield ground on that set of signal wires too
[00:50:08] <Keknom> It is.., Qcad, librecad, and most open source CAD programs are not user friendly
[00:52:15] <atom1> haha, only one pad on the mount holes for the mesa cards is ground
[00:52:49] <atom1> none on the 7i47 and one on the 7i43
[00:54:20] <atom1> andypugh, do you think if i power the mesa cards from the psu using it's ground that will take care of this issue?
[00:54:30] <atom1> currently it's powered off the Vbus on USB
[00:55:22] <andypugh> atom1: Ask Pete
[00:55:38] <atom1> that is the end plan anyway
[00:55:48] <atom1> but it hasn't been implemented just yet
[00:56:14] <JT-Shop> holy moly it's 2am at Andy's house
[00:56:27] <atom1> i split off a center tap of one of the transformers to use a 5v smps to power the mesa cards
[00:57:10] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[00:57:12] <atom1> one of those
[00:57:25] <atom1> except i gotta pull the input cap on it
[00:57:31] <atom1> since it's not rated for 24v
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[00:59:04] <atom1> aww you made him check his clock and ran him off
[00:59:17] <JT-Shop> put him to sleep I think
[00:59:27] <atom1> i probably did that
[00:59:29] <atom1> :)
[00:59:36] <JT-Shop> LOL
[00:59:51] <atom1> ok well overall i'm pleased
[00:59:56] <atom1> i expected a few hitches
[01:00:03] <JT-Shop> cool, getting close?
[01:00:15] <atom1> looking at this test setup you'd wonder it would work at all
[01:00:39] <atom1> yeah everything seems to work but the limit switches now
[01:00:51] <atom1> i may add a ground wire to that set of cables
[01:01:07] <atom1> that might fix it until i get an enclosure made and rewire it all
[01:01:57] <atom1> i pulled those off the spare mesa 50pin ribbon
[01:02:04] <atom1> not sure where the gnd signal is on it yet
[01:02:40] <atom1> looks like pin 50 is GND
[01:06:19] <jdhNC> all even pins
[01:08:35] <JT-Shop> yea
[01:11:15] <JT-Shop> dang it's Robin Trower playing
[01:12:32] <atom1> well let's see if that might fix it
[01:13:03] <jdhNC> is he still alive?
[01:13:44] <JT-Shop> dunno, it comes from the speakers on the wall
[01:15:29] <JT-Shop> seems to be still with us
[01:17:01] <ReadError> hey i asked earlier but....anyone anodized aluminum ?
[01:17:12] <JT-Shop> yea rob__H does
[01:17:19] <JT-Shop> it all the time
[01:17:42] <ReadError> was wondering how much a small home setup would be approx
[01:17:47] <JT-Shop> a bit late for him as it is 2am there
[01:18:04] <ReadError> i hit my parts with a steel wool pad
[01:18:06] <JT-Shop> caswell plating is a good source in the US
[01:18:07] <ReadError> they all shiney
[01:18:14] <ReadError> but will certainly oxidize here soon
[01:18:20] <JT-Shop> are you on this side of the pond?
[01:18:26] <ReadError> US of A
[01:19:01] <ReadError> i could give them to my dad, he works with machine shops that do super fancy ano
[01:19:10] <ReadError> but ide like to do it myself
[01:19:10] <JT-Shop> steel wool may not be good for aluminum, I know it will rust stainless as it leaves iron oxides or something
[01:19:33] <JT-Shop> power supply a heater and a few tanks
[01:19:45] <ReadError> how many v/amps ?
[01:20:08] <ReadError> dont worry, i need to google and read up ,ore
[01:20:09] <ReadError> more*
[01:20:20] <ReadError> was just curious if anyone here did it too\
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[01:23:51] <roycroft> scotchbrite pads are better than steel wool for most things
[01:24:04] <ReadError> didnt have any
[01:25:20] <JT-Shop> kinda putting the cart before the horse I think
[01:25:47] <roycroft> a push cart?
[01:25:57] <JT-Shop> lol
[01:27:10] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/images/mains.jpg
[01:27:46] <archivist> they look ok but in phase!
[01:28:15] <JT-Shop> aye, I can't figure out how to show them as they really are or they are in phase
[01:28:22] <JT-Shop> dunno which
[01:28:32] <JT-Shop> your up late!
[01:28:49] <archivist> what are your two traces
[01:28:57] <JT-Shop> just the mains
[01:29:14] <JT-Shop> trying to sort out how to use the scope more than anything
[01:29:39] <archivist> both connected to the same point by the look of the traces
[01:29:46] <JT-Shop> I assumed they would be 180 degrees out of phase from each other
[01:29:51] <roycroft> they're slightly out of phase
[01:30:00] <JT-Shop> hmmm
[01:30:03] * ReadError saw boobs
[01:30:06] <JT-Shop> let me check
[01:30:12] <atom1> they look in phase to me
[01:30:24] <JT-Shop> boobs without nipples... what's the point?
[01:30:39] <roycroft> the lower one is slightly behind the upper one
[01:30:40] <archivist> note the invert button make sure both chans are the same
[01:30:49] <FinboySlick> JT-Shop: Pointy nipples.
[01:30:55] <atom1> optical illusion
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[01:31:28] <JT-Shop> checking
[01:31:32] <atom1> JT-Shop, move them so they're on top of each other
[01:31:46] <atom1> see if they are phase correct
[01:32:08] <archivist> JT-Shop, set the b timebase to 0 delay
[01:32:54] <JT-Shop> ok
[01:35:46] <JT-Shop> b timedelay is on min
[01:36:19] <JT-Shop> shouldn't one phase be 180 from the other?
[01:36:58] <atom1> is it your 220v line?
[01:37:11] <JT-Shop> aye
[01:37:37] <atom1> i would think so
[01:38:09] <jdhNC> is one channel inverted
[01:38:14] <JT-Shop> no
[01:38:39] <atom1> trigger on A?
[01:38:54] <JT-Shop> yes
[01:39:02] <JT-Shop> dang image is fuzzy
[01:39:19] <JT-Shop> a trigger is ch1
[01:39:30] <atom1> try both once
[01:39:31] <archivist> turn brightness down a bit and adjust focus and astig
[01:39:48] <JT-Shop> astig?
[01:40:19] <JT-Shop> atom1: horiz mode?
[01:40:53] <atom1> yours is a bit different than mine.. looking
[01:41:04] <archivist> connect both probes to same point to check channel invert
[01:41:25] <atom1> that would work to make sure about the scope settings
[01:41:48] <archivist> we are scope training here :)
[01:41:57] <atom1> if it's triggering off one phase though it won't pick up the other phase until it triggers again
[01:42:03] <atom1> will it?
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[01:43:49] <JT-Shop> archivist: aye
[01:44:31] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/214022
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[01:46:27] <archivist> mode should be A I think
[01:48:36] <atom1> they will be 180 deg out of phase from neutral
[01:48:52] <atom1> put a meter across them and you should get 220v or so
[01:49:03] <archivist> trigger source should be chan 1
[01:49:03] <atom1> and each one to neutral will be 110v
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[01:49:40] <JT-Shop> mode does not change anything
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[01:50:19] <JT-Shop> A&B Source is set to CH1
[01:51:24] <archivist> and mode set to A should give both chans triggering of chan1
[01:52:10] <atom1> change ch 2 to alt instead of chop?
[01:52:16] <archivist> btw that is timebase mode set to a
[01:52:16] <JT-Shop> no change in trace when I change Horiz mode from A to both to B
[01:52:42] <atom1> pull the invert knob on b and see if it changes
[01:52:46] <archivist> chop forces one to see the phases
[01:53:03] <atom1> ok
[01:53:13] <JT-Shop> alt makes the traces alternate off and on
[01:53:18] <atom1> i'm not generally looking at ac signals
[01:53:32] <atom1> it alternates between the two
[01:53:50] <archivist> I expect the invert switch to be the key here :)
[01:54:16] <JT-Shop> vertical, ch 2 invert?
[01:54:24] <archivist> yes
[01:54:39] <atom1> neither one should be inverted
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[01:54:51] <atom1> if it's triggering right
[01:55:22] <archivist> by connecting both to the same point and pressing chan2 invert you will find the correct state of it
[01:55:32] <atom1> agreed
[01:55:41] <archivist> or if the invert switch is faulty
[01:56:23] <JT-Shop> invert gives me what I expect two sinusoidal waves 180 out
[01:56:37] <atom1> put the probes on the same spot
[01:56:45] <atom1> that will tell you about your invert button
[01:56:53] <JT-Shop> both to the same phase?
[01:56:58] <archivist> yes
[01:56:59] <atom1> yes
[01:57:06] <atom1> they should be the same signal
[01:57:10] <atom1> if it's set right
[01:58:13] <JT-Shop> I think somehow I'm on the same phase
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[01:59:10] <archivist> there is no guessing about having both probes on the same point
[01:59:11] <JT-Shop> at least I've made some progress with understanding the scope a tiny bit
[01:59:27] <JT-Shop> yea on the same point the traces are the same
[01:59:41] <archivist> then you move one probe to the point you wish to compare
[02:00:25] <JT-Shop> I'll have to bring some wires out to do that, I assumed I had one phase on each outlet but perhaps not
[02:00:53] <JT-Shop> thanks for the help guy
[02:00:55] <JT-Shop> s
[02:00:55] <archivist> does your phase converter take those two wires as two of the 3 and create a middle?
[02:01:02] <JT-Shop> aye
[02:01:05] <atom1> mmm
[02:01:22] <archivist> thats crap as the should not be 180 deg
[02:01:30] <atom1> all you need to do is plug your v meter into the wires
[02:01:41] <atom1> if you get 220v it's 180 out of phase
[02:01:45] <JT-Shop> I need to open up and verify that I'm on two phases
[02:01:46] <atom1> and not in phase
[02:01:51] <archivist> 3 phase is supposed to be 120
[02:01:56] <atom1> all you need is a meter for that
[02:01:59] <JT-Shop> aye
[02:02:20] <archivist> no wonder its failing
[02:02:25] <JT-Shop> but the single phase comes from one wire to the transformer
[02:02:48] <atom1> well i'm using the voltage terms here loosely
[02:02:54] <JT-Shop> I think the simodrive 611 is a bit sensitive...
[02:03:07] <archivist> I want to see a wiring diagram not a textual description
[02:03:20] <atom1> just saying he will get double his 120vac if they are out of phase
[02:03:33] <atom1> which is what he's looking for
[02:03:34] <JT-Shop> wiring diagram of ?
[02:03:40] <atom1> your shop
[02:04:01] <archivist> the single to 3 that goes into the mill
[02:04:02] <atom1> just try the simple v meter test
[02:04:37] <archivist> I dont care about volt as much as I care about phase
[02:04:39] <JT-Shop> well I have typical 240vac single phase with a netural service
[02:05:13] <atom1> but your 240v comes in on 2 buss bars and a neutral
[02:05:25] <atom1> the 2 buss bars are opposite phase
[02:05:30] <JT-Shop> aye, I'll have to open up the mains panel in the am and bring out some test leads to make sure I'm on both phases
[02:05:49] <archivist> you have to be, thats not the problem
[02:06:29] <JT-Shop> with me learning how to set the o scope?
[02:06:35] <archivist> the problem is understanding that you need 120 degrees between phases not 180 between a pair
[02:06:50] <JT-Shop> I understand that
[02:06:52] <atom1> we agree on the phases
[02:07:05] <atom1> but he's starting with 2 and ending with 3
[02:07:17] <atom1> and needs to make sure the 2 are actually 2
[02:07:20] <atom1> and not 1
[02:07:30] <archivist> he it starting with one
[02:07:39] <archivist> the 240
[02:07:41] <JT-Shop> and they are 2 or the dryer would not work yes
[02:07:51] <atom1> they would
[02:08:09] <atom1> check each leg to neutral and across the live legs
[02:08:09] <JT-Shop> they are 120vac to netural
[02:08:12] <atom1> yes
[02:08:19] <atom1> now across the live ones
[02:08:26] <JT-Shop> that's not an issue
[02:08:36] <atom1> what is then?
[02:08:47] <JT-Shop> I only assumed the circuit I was using was one from each phase
[02:08:54] <atom1> if they were the same phase it would read 120v
[02:09:03] <JT-Shop> as I used 12-3 to wire it up
[02:09:24] <archivist> wanna see the circuit
[02:09:25] <JT-Shop> aye... I understand now
[02:09:31] * JT-Shop gets the meter out
[02:10:16] <atom1> online speed calculators anyone?
[02:10:18] <archivist> grrr , voltages are not really relevant
[02:10:28] <atom1> archivist, are you in the UK?
[02:10:31] <archivist> yes
[02:10:35] <atom1> that may explain it
[02:10:40] <archivist> what
[02:10:54] <JT-Shop> atom1: correct both circuits are the same phase
[02:11:04] <atom1> 120v?
[02:11:13] <JT-Shop> hot to hot is 0v
[02:11:17] <atom1> mmm
[02:11:24] <atom1> somebody wired that wrong
[02:11:26] <atom1> :)
[02:11:36] * JT-Shop points finger at me
[02:11:45] <JT-Shop> or it was a double breaker
[02:12:02] <atom1> make sure the breaker is in the right spot
[02:12:07] <atom1> not all spots cross the bar
[02:12:22] <atom1> depending on the brand of course
[02:12:29] <JT-Shop> crap it is a double breaker so both are on the same phase
[02:12:41] <atom1> just move it over a slot
[02:12:45] <atom1> that may fix it
[02:12:57] <atom1> see how the legs align on the buss
[02:13:00] <JT-Shop> not possible it is a single slot double breaker
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[02:13:14] <atom1> not intended for 240v
[02:13:32] <JT-Shop> not just two 120v
[02:13:38] <atom1> put your meter across the buss's inside the box
[02:13:43] <atom1> you'll get 240v
[02:13:45] <JT-Shop> I just assumed it came from two breakers not a double
[02:13:56] <JT-Shop> aye that is a given
[02:14:04] <atom1> and that's what you're after
[02:14:10] <JT-Shop> so problem solved
[02:14:33] <atom1> no fancy scope needed for this project :)
[02:15:03] <JT-Shop> well scope 101 is needed for phase converter diagnoistics
[02:15:16] <atom1> yeah
[02:15:25] <dgarr> JT-Shop: on scope, A-trigger, A&B Source should be on CH 1 or CH 2 (not Vert Mode) mode probably to see relative phases
[02:15:36] <JT-Shop> crap starting to rain here, must go inside or I'll float away
[02:15:54] <atom1> we're supposed to get it tomorrow i think
[02:15:57] <archivist> dgarr, we have been through that step :)
[02:16:07] <JT-Shop> dgarr: I was connected to the same phase
[02:16:13] <JT-Shop> hi dewey
[02:16:36] <dgarr> ok, didn't read back enough
[02:16:43] <atom1> JT-Shop, had the drier been a compressor or such it may not have run
[02:17:13] <JT-Shop> ?
[02:17:24] <atom1> if it were a 240v motor
[02:17:47] <atom1> plugged into that outlet
[02:18:15] <JT-Shop> dgarr: I see cradek pushed the changes for nncgui :=)
[02:18:41] <atom1> the drier motor is 120v and wired across only one
[02:19:17] <atom1> ok, i think it's time to rewire the mesa cards
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[02:19:33] <atom1> can't seem to get past this problem on the switches
[02:19:46] * JT-Shop needs to wander inside
[02:19:57] <JT-Shop> thanks guys for the help
[02:20:05] <JT-Shop> say goodnight gracie
[02:20:10] <atom1> np
[02:20:12] <atom1> later
[02:34:59] <atom1> can i manually home the axis?
[02:35:05] <atom1> or how can i?
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[02:37:40] <atom1> my scale appears to be way off on this
[02:38:19] <atom1> 200 step 20 tpi on the screw scale = 4000
[02:38:39] <jdhNC> microstepping on teh gecko?
[02:38:58] <atom1> maybe?
[02:39:07] <alex4nder-> yes
[02:39:16] <alex4nder-> 10 of them
[02:39:21] <atom1> how do you adjust that?
[02:39:23] <skunkworks__> 40000
[02:39:44] <jdhNC> that's a lot of steps
[02:39:52] <atom1> it's automatic on the 203v isn't it?
[02:41:05] <atom1> skunkworks__, where can i find that?
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[02:42:52] <atom1> i'm not doubting you but i'm not finding where it says what the step rate is either
[02:50:04] <atom1> the 540 is 10ustep or 2000ppr
[02:50:16] <atom1> haven't found the 203v yet
[02:50:30] <skunkworks__> try it?
[02:50:36] <atom1> ahh there it is
[02:50:38] <atom1> it's the same
[02:51:05] <atom1> so how does that figure into my stepper ppr and screw lead?
[02:51:26] <atom1> instead of 200ppr it would be 2000 on the stepper?
[02:51:43] <atom1> so your 40000 is likely correct
[02:51:47] <jdhNC> tpi * uSteps * steps per rev
[02:52:35] <atom1> that's alot of flippin steps
[02:54:01] <atom1> now, how can i manually home the axis?
[02:54:19] <atom1> i just wanna set home to an arbitrary point right now
[02:54:23] <atom1> so i can mdi
[02:54:31] <jymmm> mush
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[02:54:40] <jymmm> git e up
[02:55:05] <jymmm> git along lil doggy
[02:55:09] * atom1 ties jymmm to a whippin post
[02:55:42] <jdhNC> change home vel to 0 and hit home
[02:56:26] <atom1> HOME_SEARCH_VEL ?
[02:56:32] <atom1> and LATCH
[02:56:35] <atom1> etc
[02:56:45] <jdhNC> yeah. or add NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1
[02:56:55] <atom1> that may be easier
[02:59:15] <atom1> that didn't work
[03:08:00] <jdhNC> didn't work how?
[03:08:06] <atom1> force homing
[03:08:13] <atom1> setting the others to 0 did
[03:08:26] <jdhNC> it still wanted you to home before mdi?
[03:08:33] <atom1> yes
[03:11:47] <jdhNC> in [TRAJ]?
[03:12:25] <atom1> i put it in each axis
[03:12:48] <jdhNC> in [TRAJ]
[03:12:51] <atom1> ok
[03:12:52] <atom1> done
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[03:22:26] <atom1> ok, scale is ok, that fixed the homing for now
[03:22:42] <atom1> the velocity is way off now due to the scale change
[03:24:41] <atom1> where do i adjust the jog speed on the axis display?
[03:34:21] <freespace> below the jot control are a set of sliders
[03:34:56] <atom1> yes
[03:35:03] <atom1> i want to set the limits on those
[03:35:03] <freespace> one of them sys jog speed
[03:35:18] <atom1> i think i figured it out
[03:35:21] <freespace> ok
[03:35:28] <atom1> in the [display] section
[03:35:32] <jdhNC> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/config/ini_config.html
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[03:37:48] <atom1> and for G0 in program mode where do i set the max feedrate for that?
[03:38:25] <atom1> same vars different section?
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[03:51:15] <atom1> 70 ipm is a big improvement for this little machine
[03:52:37] <atom1> steppers in series still too
[03:52:46] <atom1> and minimal drive current
[03:53:13] * atom1 quits while he's ahead for the evening
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[04:04:54] <r00t4rd3d> quitter
[04:06:51] <r00t4rd3d> Total Debits This Period $-1072.52
[04:07:05] <r00t4rd3d> from my prepaid card i use on ebay :/
[04:07:59] <r00t4rd3d> router and camera stuff
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[04:26:06] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[04:26:08] <Tom_itx> decent link
[04:26:50] <jymmm> which one is HSS ?
[04:27:24] <Tom_itx> what do you mean?
[04:27:31] <Tom_itx> HSS is High Speed Steel
[04:27:47] <jymmm> they list 4 steels, which one would be considered "hss" ?
[04:27:49] <Tom_itx> ie cheap cutters
[04:28:09] <Tom_itx> tool steel
[04:28:10] <Tom_itx> probably
[04:28:13] <jymmm> k
[04:29:14] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[04:29:15] <Tom_itx> another one
[04:29:25] <Tom_itx> no material data given though
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[05:57:34] <alex4nder-> hey
[06:00:14] <jymmm> ug
[06:01:45] <alex4nder-> what's up?
[06:04:12] <jymmm> SSDD
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[06:59:51] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:25:36] <jymmm> Daaaaaaaaaaaaamn, When he turns it OFF, the cooling looks crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqEajWAuRfM&feature=related
[08:25:56] <jymmm> just unreal
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[08:30:33] <jymmm> Can you braize brass with a propane torch?
[08:58:51] <mrsun> jymmm, http://lmgtfy.com/?q=brazing+with+propane :P
[08:59:51] <mrsun> with a good propane torch i dont see the problem
[09:00:02] <mrsun> depending on how big the piece is =)
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[14:20:44] <Tom_itx> jymmm i can
[14:21:22] <Tom_itx> carefully
[14:21:23] <jthornton> YEA a counter bore subroutine for ngcgui
[14:21:34] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, good success last night
[14:21:41] <Tom_itx> all but the limit switches
[14:21:49] <Tom_itx> noisy lines is the problem there
[14:21:49] <jthornton> cool
[14:21:53] <Tom_itx> will fix that soon
[14:22:16] <Tom_itx> got the software tuned pretty good i think
[14:22:25] <Tom_itx> haven't set the pots yet
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[14:24:41] <Tom_itx> those new drivers are nice
[14:25:30] <jthornton> which ones do you have?
[14:25:33] <jthornton> I forget
[14:25:40] <Tom_itx> 203v
[14:25:52] <jthornton> ah, yea my favorite
[14:26:03] <Tom_itx> i see why now :)
[14:27:09] <Tom_itx> i haven't rewired the steppers for parallel mode or upped the current limit on the drives yet and i've already tripled my ipm from what i could previously do
[14:28:10] <jthornton> are you using ngcgui yet?
[14:28:19] <Tom_itx> no
[14:28:25] <Tom_itx> why would i need that?
[14:28:28] <Tom_itx> i've got cad cam
[14:28:53] <jthornton> for simple things it is much faster than cad cam
[14:28:55] <Tom_itx> i plan to load it though
[14:29:19] <Tom_itx> oh, is there a way to default the machine to G91 mode?
[14:29:26] <Tom_itx> on powerup
[14:30:14] <jthornton> you can edit your ini and add that, but why would you want G91?
[14:30:48] <Tom_itx> well, i haven't set any limits yet so once i do that it may not matter
[14:31:04] <Tom_itx> in mdi last night it tried to go from where it thought zero was
[14:31:11] <Tom_itx> and it wasn't set
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[14:32:41] <jthornton> do you have no force homing set?
[14:33:16] <Tom_itx> not yet
[14:33:50] <Tom_itx> well i did set it in traj to 1 but that's it
[14:34:19] <jthornton> I can't understand how you didn't have the home position set then
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[14:35:29] <Tom_itx> i'll post what i have and you can tell me what i'm missing
[14:35:56] <Tom_itx> i'm sure i don't have everything set yet
[14:36:31] <jthornton> when you power up and Axis comes on can you jog without homing?
[14:38:58] <Tom_L> once i set NO_FORCE_HOMING = 1 in traj
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[14:39:54] <jthornton> yea, that can trip you up, better to set that to 0 than put G91 as default
[14:40:20] <Tom_L> i wasn't able to mdi before i set that to 1 though
[14:40:26] <Tom_L> or added it
[14:40:32] <Tom_L> didn't try 0
[14:40:45] <jthornton> right you have to home first
[14:40:46] <Tom_L> what's your [HALUI] section for?
[14:40:59] <Tom_L> well i don't have working limits yet is why i did that
[14:41:03] <jthornton> on my?
[14:41:07] <Tom_L> plasma
[14:41:13] <jthornton> you don't need limits to home
[14:41:28] <jthornton> rapid to home button on my pyvcp panel
[14:41:37] <Tom_L> ok
[14:41:47] <Tom_L> i'll ask how to add that later :)
[14:41:55] <jthornton> ok
[14:42:08] <jthornton> it's about 4 lines iirc
[14:42:11] <Tom_L> i couldn't figure out how to set home without limits last night
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[14:42:36] <Tom_L> i also need to set the soft limits which are wrong in my file
[14:42:43] <jthornton> you just jog to the home position and press home for each axis after you select it
[14:42:56] <Tom_L> ok
[14:43:47] <andypugh> Tom_L: / Tom_itx (Are they the same) Limit switches can be safely debounced in software. Who cares if they take 1mS to trip, how far does the machine movin in that distance?
[14:44:04] <Tom_L> andypugh yes, as is atom1
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[14:45:00] <Tom_L> andypugh i wasn't able to get them working last night. too much noise on the line or the 3.2v was too low. i haven't figured it out yet
[14:45:07] <Tom_L> one of today's projects
[14:45:25] <ScribbleJ> Why does my spindle have four pins to connect wires, but only three of them connected?
[14:45:38] <Tom_L> gnd maybe?
[14:45:46] <ScribbleJ> Like, two gnd you mean?
[14:45:54] <Tom_L> no idea
[14:45:59] <ScribbleJ> I'd buy that explanation.
[14:46:04] <Tom_L> is it 3 phase?
[14:46:41] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/hm2-stepper/
[14:46:47] <Tom_L> JT-Shop, sherline is the one i'm using
[14:46:59] <Tom_L> along with the stuff for my pendant etc
[14:47:08] <Tom_L> not all of that is being used
[14:47:18] <ScribbleJ> I'm not sure, Tom. I know very little about my machine so far. :)
[14:47:27] <Tom_L> you will
[14:47:31] <ScribbleJ> Indeed.!
[14:49:38] <Tom_L> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[14:49:47] <Tom_L> JT-Shop that may be a bit clearer
[14:50:12] <Tom_L> seems i'm missing one there
[14:50:36] <Tom_L> ther
[14:50:37] <Tom_L> e
[14:51:04] <Tom_L> that should be the whole set now
[14:51:25] <Tom_L> needs some house keeping
[14:56:15] <ScribbleJ> What are folks here using generally for cad and making gcode out of models and such?
[14:56:28] <Tom_L> smartcam
[14:57:06] <ReadError> visualmill
[14:57:08] <ScribbleJ> So using linuxcnc wasn't a philosophical choice for you, I take it.
[14:57:28] <Tom_L> ngcgui
[14:57:31] <ScribbleJ> OK, let me try again. THose both look like qualit software packages.
[14:57:43] <Tom_L> :)
[14:57:47] <ScribbleJ> But I think I meant to ask, what open source tools are people using for cad and gcode generation?
[14:57:58] <Tom_L> ngcgui
[14:58:00] <ReadError> i have yet to run across a good one
[14:58:08] <Tom_L> add on to linuxcnc
[14:58:13] <ScribbleJ> This makes me sad. :(
[14:58:18] <Tom_L> don't know much about it yet
[14:58:31] <ReadError> so i got a camera
[14:58:34] <ScribbleJ> It just runs scripts, Tom_L, looks like.
[14:58:35] <ReadError> zipScope
[14:58:39] <Tom_L> peck your gcode out on the keyboard
[14:58:51] <Tom_L> you build on the scripts
[14:58:57] <Tom_L> from what i hear
[14:59:17] <ScribbleJ> Very interesting.
[14:59:44] <ScribbleJ> I would have imagined the state of the tools on open source CNC to be beyond that of open source tools for 3D printing
[14:59:51] <ScribbleJ> Simply because ya'll have been at it so much longer.
[14:59:52] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[15:00:00] <Tom_L> it may be. i haven't looked for one
[15:00:08] <ScribbleJ> I will keep looking.
[15:00:20] <ScribbleJ> the 3D printing folks seem to think HeeksCAD might be a thing to try.
[15:03:44] <Tom_L> http://www.cambam.info/
[15:04:26] <jthornton> I like gedit the best for creating G code
[15:05:08] <Tom_L> jthornton am i missing anything obvious in my files?
[15:05:34] <Tom_L> other than the limit switches being set up
[15:14:38] <archivist> ScribbleJ, one of the best cad cam is inside rear of skull
[15:16:33] <Tom_L> ScribbleJ, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gui/ngcgui.html
[15:17:01] <Tom_L> archivist for 2d stuff i agree
[15:17:11] <Tom_L> most of what we did were complex surfaces
[15:17:51] <archivist> there is no simple cam for some 5 axis stuff so brain is cheaper for that too
[15:18:23] <Tom_L> yeah probably so. i never did any 5 axis. i kinda wish i could have
[15:19:03] <archivist> a helical gear is not that difficult in our dialect of gcode
[15:21:38] <Tom_L> i'd like to come up with a rotary axis for this soon
[15:23:17] <archivist> because I built my mill for gear cutting my rotary was working before the Z
[15:24:32] <archivist> then after the Z I noticed how many differing setups I had, along came a B axis, now main problem is travels to fit the jobs
[15:24:40] <andypugh> I think people have had decent results out of HeeksCNC.
[15:25:05] <archivist> if they do the cad in another package it seems
[15:25:23] <andypugh> Yes, there is that drawback
[15:25:49] <andypugh> 2.5D can be done in SheetCAM. It isn't OS but the Linux version is in Beta, and currently free.
[15:25:55] <archivist> but everybodies workflows are different
[15:26:48] <andypugh> My encoder works great, until I mount it...
[15:27:14] <archivist> oops
[15:27:37] <andypugh> I think I need more non-reflective air behind it.
[15:28:09] <archivist> spay can of matt black
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[15:38:11] <andypugh> black marker helped.
[15:38:56] <Tom_L> are they uv or magnetic?
[15:39:01] <andypugh> Though it's not as simple as blackness, as black can be very shiny.
[15:39:04] <andypugh> IR
[15:39:05] <Tom_L> remember what is sensitive to uv
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[15:39:09] <Tom_L> err ir i mean
[15:39:30] <Tom_L> i found toner to work but inkjet not so much
[15:40:13] <andypugh> These encoders need 80% specular reflectance, both white and black paper are too matt
[15:40:20] <Tom_L> i made one from that aluminum duct tape (metalic)
[15:40:46] <andypugh> And they also need 75lpi marks, and I can't find a laser with more than 300dpi, and that aliases.
[15:41:36] <Tom_L> pull a strip from an old inkjet
[15:41:48] <Tom_L> if it's long enough
[15:41:51] <Tom_L> probably not..
[15:42:04] <andypugh> I just spent £60 on these laser-cut targets.
[15:42:36] <andypugh> The problem is mounting them correctly, they work beautifully.
[15:42:59] <Tom_L> yeah, that's why i'm stalling on my spindle encoder
[15:43:38] <andypugh> You can just machine a spindle encoder, lots of room back there.
[15:43:52] <andypugh> I am trying to squeeze things inside a motor.
[15:44:10] <Tom_L> i put one inside a hobby servo once.. c'mon!
[15:44:32] <andypugh> What did you use as the detector?
[15:44:47] <Tom_L> it was either a hamatsu or omron, i forget
[15:44:58] <Tom_L> hang on
[15:47:30] <Tom_L> not in the file.. have to dig
[15:49:04] <Tom_L> they were reflective sensors
[15:51:49] <andypugh> Quadrature?
[15:52:00] <Tom_L> no
[15:52:23] <andypugh> Ah, these are. 3mm x 5mm quadrature sensors. Though they now do a 3x3..
[15:52:48] <Tom_L> oh
[15:53:01] <andypugh> http://www.avagotech.com/docs/AV02-0088EN
[15:54:18] <andypugh> Anyway, time to make a new housing I think, this one has been modified too many times in the wrong way.
[15:54:27] <Tom_L> those look pretty nice
[15:56:04] <andypugh> they are differential, though, so only really with with the specified line pitch. And 75lpi is quite fine.
[15:56:29] <Tom_L> yeah
[15:56:51] <Tom_L> are yours metal?
[15:57:06] <Tom_L> the strips you had cut
[15:59:06] <Tom_L> http://www.usdigital.com/
[15:59:10] <Tom_L> they probably have strips
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[16:33:51] <Tom_itx> who found that small enclosure on ebay the other day?
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[16:39:42] <andypugh> Tom_L: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/izs9EehSiBmY_omIxaSJBtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[16:40:21] <Tom_L> why the different encoders?
[16:40:29] <Tom_L> index on one?
[16:40:43] <andypugh> Two designs
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[16:58:57] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the blue Globe
[16:59:10] <DJ9DJ> hi there
[16:59:14] <DJ9DJ> http://quadrokopter.net/fraese/silizium/
[16:59:27] * jthornton wanders off for a nap
[16:59:28] <DJ9DJ> tried to build my own so-8 chip ;)
[17:00:22] <DJ9DJ> (just as a 'frame' for the silicium wafer to pin it at the wall)
[17:01:11] <IchGuckLive> where did you got the waver from
[17:01:21] <DJ9DJ> ebay :)
[17:01:21] <andypugh> You missed out the hook-up wires :-)
[17:01:23] <DJ9DJ> 3,32 euros
[17:01:37] <DJ9DJ> http://www.ebay.de/itm/220630091700
[17:01:39] <IchGuckLive> whow
[17:01:41] <andypugh> And I guess that isn't an SO8 die?
[17:01:53] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[17:02:00] <DJ9DJ> yes, a little bit too big, i think ;)
[17:02:26] <DJ9DJ> yeah, hmm, the bond wires are missing. hmm
[17:02:31] <DJ9DJ> little bit difficult ;)
[17:03:27] <andypugh> I designed a testing machine which had a tiny hook, XY stage and load cell, for seeing what force it took to pull off the bond wires.
[17:03:31] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: can i steel your idee for the University of K-town hermany
[17:03:31] <jymmm> DJ9DJ: float it
[17:04:01] <DJ9DJ> IchGuckLive, sure
[17:04:15] <DJ9DJ> but show me some pics, if you also build one :)
[17:04:20] <IchGuckLive> it will be in a corridor soon
[17:04:30] <DJ9DJ> nice for the students :)
[17:04:51] <IchGuckLive> outside the OLED clean room
[17:04:59] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[17:06:22] <DJ9DJ> you have a clean room at the university? wow
[17:06:48] <IchGuckLive> http://home.arcor.de/projekt_dm/ims/a-mst.htm
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[17:07:15] <DJ9DJ> ah, kaiserslautern
[17:07:32] <DJ9DJ> nice
[17:08:54] <IchGuckLive> i will place it in the upper picture (yellow) left of the window outside
[17:10:59] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: did you use a surtain scale ?
[17:24:22] <DJ9DJ> hmm, scaling factor is about 28 times larger
[17:24:35] <DJ9DJ> but its only proportional in x and y, not z
[17:24:46] <DJ9DJ> because mit wood workpiece wasn't thicker ;)
[17:24:51] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[17:31:16] * DJ9DJ is afk for a while
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[17:42:22] <andypugh> I think my old university had a chip-fab. They got it second-hand then found that old-tech chip-fabs weren't actally much use.
[17:42:56] <IchGuckLive> O.O B)
[17:44:52] <Tom_itx> link is broke in 1.2. sections [traj] doesn't bring up [TRAJ]
[17:44:59] <Tom_itx> in the html
[17:45:28] <IchGuckLive> im off have a nice sunday !
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[17:46:03] <Tom_L> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:[TRAJ]-section
[17:47:30] <Tom_L> looking for a ref to STEPLEN and STEPSPACE and didn't find it in the [AXIS_x] section
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[17:50:02] <andypugh> Tom_L: You can put it there if you want, but it normally only appears in the HAL as a number.
[17:50:23] <ScribbleJ> I think it's safe to say you will all be impressed by my mastery of cabling. http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7280777292/in/photostream/
[17:50:24] <Tom_L> in the hal file?
[17:50:35] <Tom_L> it was in the ini example file i started with
[17:50:53] <andypugh> Yes, and you can do that, but stepgen doesn't
[17:51:05] <andypugh> Sorry, stepconf, I mean
[17:51:14] <Tom_L> ok, i've never used that
[17:51:15] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Energy chain too small?
[17:51:41] <ScribbleJ> Just a bit tight.
[17:51:45] <ScribbleJ> Heh
[17:52:22] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: You may have to play around a bit with layout, you may be able to get everythign in there
[17:52:33] <andypugh> That looks like solid-core mains flex. That will have a life of minutes (maybe weeks) in an energy chain.
[17:52:58] <jymmm> andypugh: See scraps on ground, it's stranded
[17:53:06] <ScribbleJ> andypugh, it does look like romex, but it's not. IT's some funky three-core stranded with a ground shield around 2 of the wires.
[17:53:12] <andypugh> Yes, I just noticed and was typing a retraction.
[17:53:19] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Well, you coudl replace the grey with something else/batter
[17:53:41] <jymmm> andypugh: no worries, it's exactyl what I thought it was when I saw it yesterday too
[17:53:45] <ScribbleJ> jymmm, the reason there's scraps is the grey wasn't long enough, I had to splic on an extension using just plain insulated stranded wire, 14g
[17:53:57] <ScribbleJ> Maybe I should have just replaced the whole thing, woulda' made the fit a lot better.
[17:54:05] <andypugh> Are you going to keep that random loop?
[17:54:16] <ScribbleJ> Temporarily at least, yea. I could not get it out. :(
[17:54:53] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: While a bitch, I'd take it ALL out and do it right. It's somethign that you'll do once and never touch again.
[17:54:56] <andypugh> With the energy chain I have, you can snap off the tops, you lay the cable in, you don't pull it through.
[17:55:11] <jymmm> andypugh: lucky you =)
[17:55:30] <andypugh> I can't tell if that is the same or not
[17:55:50] <jymmm> I have to remove connectors, feed it through, then put on connectors.
[17:55:51] <ScribbleJ> No, no snap off tops. That would be nice.
[17:56:32] <andypugh> It's not terribly expensive
[17:56:39] <jymmm> andypugh: HA!
[17:56:51] <ScribbleJ> You don't even have to buy it really.
[17:56:59] <ScribbleJ> I printed out a length on my 3D printer that seems to work well.
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[17:57:46] <jymmm> andypugh: $5+ USD per foot is not "cheap" to me
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[17:58:03] <andypugh> OK, so it is quite expensive. I wonder where I got mine from?
[17:58:04] <ScribbleJ> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11978 it's only about 20mm but I bet it'd scale fine.
[17:58:22] <jymmm> andypugh: I got mine fro the flea market =)
[17:59:15] <jymmm> still cost me aorund $1/ft, but that's way more than reasonable
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[18:00:35] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Not that it's good or bad, but I just don't like the looks of that grey cable
[18:00:44] <jymmm> in general
[18:01:00] <ScribbleJ> I don't either. It's for powering the spindle. Do you tihnk it's kosher to just use three separate plain ol insulated wires?
[18:01:09] <ScribbleJ> I will replace it all... but not today probably.
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[18:01:42] <jymmm> Is it raw power to the spindle?
[18:01:50] <andypugh> Well, this should be non-refelctive enough: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/_N3VtNFbLvT7TjNgVVdFTtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[18:01:51] <jymmm> or a pulse? or something else?
[18:02:07] <andypugh> It's a 3mm deep groove chemically blackened (FeCl)
[18:02:26] <jymmm> iron what?
[18:02:27] <ScribbleJ> I don't really know how the spindle works. :/
[18:02:32] <jymmm> chloride?
[18:02:39] <andypugh> Yeah, PCB etchant
[18:02:43] <jymmm> ah
[18:03:19] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: It's a 3-phase motor.
[18:03:24] <jymmm> andypugh: Shit, I don't have a dman clue to chemistry =)
[18:04:17] <jymmm> andypugh: I have been reverse learning chemistry for the last couple of months
[18:04:30] <jymmm> the hard way too =)
[18:04:33] <ScribbleJ> Reverse learning!
[18:05:06] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Yeah, chemistry, thermodynmics, phsyics, trig
[18:05:12] <jymmm> all reversed learned
[18:05:13] <djdelorie> spelling
[18:05:23] <jymmm> djdelorie: Learn to speak typo!
[18:05:31] <jymmm> ans spello too
[18:05:33] <djdelorie> ;-)
[18:05:34] <jymmm> and
[18:06:04] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: You have a variable-speed drive which takes single-phase mains, rectifies it to DC, then creates a 3-phase supply at variable speed to drive the motor. Normal mains (in your strange country) is 60Hz, which will run a motor at a fixed speed of 3600rpm. But the VFD creates a 0 - 400Hz supply, so your motor can run at much higher speeds.
[18:06:27] <ScribbleJ> Oh, I see.
[18:06:46] <jymmm> ScribbleJ: Most learn to do something. I got the something and learn to create it.
[18:07:31] <ScribbleJ> So when I PWM the line to the VFD does the output spindle hz correspond directly to the PWM frequency?
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[18:08:06] <ScribbleJ> i.e. if I PWM 60pulses per second do I get 3600rpm?
[18:08:29] <djdelorie> depends on the drive, more likely the PWM duty cycle is 0-100% max frequency
[18:08:35] <ScribbleJ> Ok.
[18:08:36] <andypugh> ScribbleJ: No. Because the output PWM is fixed-frequency, but the duty-cycle changes
[18:08:39] <ScribbleJ> That's not as fun. :)
[18:08:49] <djdelorie> you'd rather have it the other way? ;-)
[18:09:28] <djdelorie> I still say linuxncc needs a cheap CAN solution so it can just send the desired RPM to the controller...
[18:09:32] <ScribbleJ> Well, the other way would basically make it a stepper I suppose. It would be a lot easier to determine the precise speed at the least.
[18:09:50] <djdelorie> My controllers work that way
[18:10:11] <djdelorie> it moves the control and coordination out to the controller, takes it away from linuxcyc
[18:10:30] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7280777382/in/photostream/ WHAT A MESS.
[18:10:38] <ScribbleJ> I need something fancier than a /floor/ to put all this on.
[18:11:15] <ScribbleJ> What controller is that, djdelorie ?
[18:11:16] <djdelorie> mine is on two sawhorses
[18:11:24] <ScribbleJ> My laser is on two sawhorses. I feel so ghetto.
[18:11:24] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/
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[18:12:32] <ScribbleJ> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13723140@N04/7032972967/in/photostream
[18:17:05] <ReadError> what reflow station is that ScribbleJ?
[18:17:22] <ScribbleJ> It's an aoyue... uh... I forget the model number exactly.
[18:17:39] <ScribbleJ> It was a great value, about $150 IIRC and it can use hakko tips which are nice.
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[18:18:42] <ScribbleJ> I believe it's an Aoyue 968, by photos on the internet.
[18:18:49] <ScribbleJ> I'm too lazy to go up to the garage and look now. :)
[18:22:10] <ReadError> i think thats what i was looking at
[18:22:18] <ReadError> http://sra-solder.com/product.php/6267/26
[18:22:45] <ScribbleJ> That looks like an updated model, but the same thing, yea.
[18:23:15] <ScribbleJ> Oh
[18:23:20] <ScribbleJ> That one looks nicer in a few ways
[18:23:48] <ScribbleJ> Mine only has an analog dial to set the solder iron temperature, that one appears to have a digital readout for the soldering iron as well as the air gun.
[18:23:56] <ScribbleJ> Mine only shows digital for the air gun.
[18:25:45] <andypugh> djdelorie: There is a Modbus component for certain VFDs
[18:30:42] <djdelorie> modbus is basically a serial port, can requires custom hardware
[18:30:51] <djdelorie> I haven't found a cheap can controller that isn't usb yet...
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[18:51:20] <jdhNC> pcw should make an sserial can controller
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[18:53:47] <djdelorie> can is 1 mhz, serial isn't that fast
[18:54:51] <djdelorie> I bet one of the mesa boards could do it, though
[18:54:58] * jdhNC points to the other s
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[20:05:25] <jdhNC> any suggestions for grinding/milling away part of a ballnut?
[20:11:04] <syyl> try to avoid it ;)
[20:11:56] <andypugh> If you want just a multi-mhz UART from a Mesa board, I am working on the driver now.
[20:12:16] <andypugh> You could put the CAN protocol in a HAL component
[20:14:03] <micges> andypugh: how is progress on driver?
[20:14:11] <micges> test loop working?
[20:14:45] <andypugh> No, I can't get the sample HAL comp to stop segfaulting. I will get back to it later.
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[20:15:25] <andypugh> As far as I can see it has never worked, so presumably Issy just never used the patch I provided
[20:16:34] <micges> he has programmer that could made it work, or just simply he used another solution for comunication
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[20:35:47] <joe9> ReadError: what did you buy for touchoff?
[20:35:57] <joe9> the tool for touching off the x and y axes, I mean.
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[20:46:48] <alex4nder-> hey
[20:46:54] <DJ9DJ> hey there
[20:46:58] <alex4nder-> how's it?
[20:47:19] <DJ9DJ> fine :) and at your end?
[20:48:38] <alex4nder-> good, drinking coffee, and working.
[20:52:24] <DJ9DJ> :)
[20:52:34] <DJ9DJ> i am going to bed in a few minutes ;)
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[20:58:22] <jymmm> DN9
[20:58:53] <jymmm> alex4nder-: I do not appreciate that kind of profanity in here.
[21:01:27] <andypugh> Actually, CAN might have to be a separate Hostmot2 function, as the protocol relies on open-collector(?) outputs and devices spotting that they are failing to drive the wire high.
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[21:02:13] <jymmm> andypugh: CAN actually specifics open collector as the norm?
[21:02:27] <andypugh> djdelorie: There is an SPI driver if that's any use.
[21:02:38] <andypugh> jymmm: Or open drain, or something like that.
[21:02:46] <jymmm> heh =)
[21:03:18] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller_area_network#Data_transmission (and it was open collector)
[21:04:52] <alex4nder-> jymmm: working pays bills
[21:05:03] <andypugh> So, you could write a badly-behave CAN implementation in HAL if you just pretend that the PC always has top priority.
[21:05:14] <alex4nder-> what about CAN?
[21:05:24] <jymmm> alex4nder-: so does prostitution, drug dealing, and gun running.
[21:05:31] <alex4nder-> that's all 'work'
[21:06:00] <jymmm> alex4nder-: How is laying on your back W***?
[21:06:07] <andypugh> CAN is work for me. I spend half my working life plugged in to the CAN bus.
[21:06:13] <alex4nder-> andypugh: me too
[21:06:29] <alex4nder-> I'm currently debugging a CAN frame transmit issue.
[21:07:44] <andypugh> Ah, I don't need to know how it works, I just use it.
[21:07:54] <jymmm> lol
[21:08:23] <jymmm> andypugh: you're sounding like me =)
[21:08:34] <djdelorie> one of the key selling points of CAN is that higher priority messages actually get higher priority
[21:09:16] <djdelorie> IIRC, the bus is differential-ish, either the two signals are the same voltage (idle) or one's pulled high and the other low (active)
[21:09:28] <alex4nder-> yup
[21:09:32] <alex4nder-> well, in two-wire CAN
[21:09:36] <djdelorie> right
[21:09:54] <alex4nder-> I really like CAN
[21:10:02] <andypugh> And that is handled by devices spotting if their attempts to drive the bus low are working. So can't really be handled in HAL. Curiously I think that some Parports can work that way, but probably too slowly.
[21:10:06] <alex4nder-> most stacks are dogshit, but it's overall a cool protocol
[21:10:10] <djdelorie> my bldc controllers have CAN but I haven't done anything with them yet
[21:10:25] <alex4nder-> and all of the newer CAN controllers fix the damage of the old controllers.
[21:10:33] <alex4nder-> just don't use the SJA1000
[21:10:36] <djdelorie> andypugh: the priority is handled by NOT driving the bus, and seeing if someone else IS
[21:10:41] <alex4nder-> yup
[21:10:54] <alex4nder-> and backing off is handled in hardware
[21:10:58] <alex4nder-> (with a sane controller)
[21:11:16] <djdelorie> so whoever has the highest priority on the bus, gets their message through
[21:11:23] <andypugh> djdelorie: Have you seen my bldc HAL component? Does that play well with your driver?
[21:11:45] <djdelorie> my driver doesn't have an interface for anything other than "pretend to be a stepper" at the moment
[21:11:54] <ScribbleJ> Everything is hooked up and my spindle and motors are all working, axes are moving!
[21:11:55] <djdelorie> if I redo the boards, I'll add more interfaces :-)
[21:12:03] <ScribbleJ> ... so I'm totally like OK now what.! haa
[21:12:14] <djdelorie> unless your HAL driver uses the CAN bus :-)
[21:12:27] <djdelorie> (or a simple UART)
[21:14:34] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:14:43] <jymmm> gn9
[21:14:46] <DJ9DJ> gn9 jymmm
[21:14:48] <DJ9DJ> :)
[21:14:57] <DJ9DJ> why are you small jymmm today?
[21:15:04] <DJ9DJ> and not Jymmm?
[21:15:22] <jymmm> I dont understand
[21:15:37] <DJ9DJ> hehe, just wondering about the first letter of your nickname ;)
[21:15:51] <andypugh> Well, the bldc component just handles interpeting Hall and Encoder signals, and determining appropriate phase volatges
[21:15:57] <jymmm> oh, it's all the same
[21:16:11] <jymmm> DJ9DJ: from jym to jymmmmmmmmm
[21:16:23] <DJ9DJ> ah, i see, you are very flexible :)
[21:16:35] <andypugh> Though it does have some secondary tricks, like converting between different commutation patterns, and making Fanuc Red-Cap look like Hall
[21:16:39] <djdelorie> phase voltages, or phase PWM cycles?
[21:17:05] <andypugh> Its the same thing inside HAL
[21:17:09] <DJ9DJ> k, see you in about 8-9 hours again :) bye
[21:17:24] <jymmm> bu bye
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[21:18:10] <djdelorie> one of my prototypes has the inverter on a separate board, it takes the six PWM inputs and provides the hall and encoder signals back
[21:18:42] <djdelorie> also the analog signals for the three current sense and die temperature
[21:19:03] <andypugh> I don't think you can really do motor PWM in software, but it will happily drive the Mesa Three-Phase-PWM component.
[21:19:47] <djdelorie> you'd need six phases for this
[21:20:18] <andypugh> It's 3 phases and 6 gate-drives...
[21:20:48] <djdelorie> right, but I found if I try to not drive the "low" side on the "high" phases, the gate driver caps won't charge and it stops working
[21:21:00] <andypugh> Phase UVW and PWMs UH UL VH VL WH WL
[21:21:08] <djdelorie> right
[21:21:21] <djdelorie> simple drives pull one of the *L low and PWM one of the *H
[21:21:34] <djdelorie> leaving everything else open
[21:22:20] <djdelorie> http://www.delorie.com/electronics/bldc/driver-prototype.jpg
[21:22:28] <andypugh> bldc will switch to Sinusodal drive unless you tell it not to,
[21:22:39] <djdelorie> that's best :-)
[21:22:57] <djdelorie> mine does that, and the *L portion of each PWM is used to charge the high side caps
[21:23:20] <djdelorie> there's even logic to keep the PWM duty cycle below 75%, although I could remove that limit at high enough RPMs
[21:24:23] <jymmm> can you pwm a SSR, or is that a bad idea?
[21:24:32] <djdelorie> depends on the SSR
[21:24:42] <djdelorie> if it's triac-based, not really
[21:24:54] <jymmm> those cheapo opto22 flat pack ones
[21:24:57] <andypugh> So, you have made a step-dir drive, and I have moved even motor commutation into software. So thats diverging from standard practice in two different directions.
[21:25:23] <andypugh> jymmm: Most only switch at zero volts.
[21:25:24] <djdelorie> you could do zero-crossing synchronized trigger, to get a fractional "on", but usually you don't use an SSR at that point.
[21:25:47] <djdelorie> andypugh: the fact that we *can* go in opposite directions, is a good thing!
[21:25:59] <andypugh> Actually, I withdraw that. _Many_ only switch at zero volts.
[21:26:26] <jymmm> It doesn't have to be fast, just using it as a heater control
[21:26:29] <djdelorie> it's probably accurate to also say that many will only switch *off* at zero volts, even if they can switch *on* elsewhere
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[21:26:57] <andypugh> You know the Mesa 7i39 is quite a nice dumb bldc driver, you could have saved yourself a fair bit of time.
[21:27:21] <djdelorie> "if I had known" :-)
[21:27:37] <jymmm> I thought about using one and a thermister as a dumb temperature control for a couple of light bulbs
[21:27:58] <djdelorie> wouldn't have worked for me, though. It only goes to 48 volts
[21:28:14] <djdelorie> my motor is 160 volts, my controller is designed for 350-450 volts
[21:28:34] <andypugh> 8i20 then.
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[21:28:47] <andypugh> I did the same thing with an Arduino by the way: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyeJfNg3NfQ&list=UUexvgsGz_QFvOublovDYoTQ&index=3&feature=plcp
[21:29:07] <djdelorie> yeah, that would have handled it
[21:30:21] <jymmm> andypugh: I think you could have used wider tape for a better fan blade to keep cooler =)
[21:30:42] <djdelorie> the 8i20 controls the current loop? One of the ideas for mine is to pass through the encoder, so the driver has better resolution than just the halls, to avoid cogging
[21:31:22] <andypugh> Yes, the 8i20 is fairly smart. You tell it the rotor electrical angle and the current that you want. It handles it from that point.
[21:31:41] <djdelorie> I suppose mine could do that too, over the can bus
[21:32:03] <andypugh> The 8i20 does it over a 2.5Mbs serial bus.
[21:32:23] <andypugh> You could make your board talk the same protocol...
[21:32:34] <djdelorie> I could, over the second serial port
[21:33:08] <djdelorie> it would need an adapter card for the rs-422 signalling
[21:33:12] <andypugh> I think that the protocol is documented in the 8i20 manual. But I skimmed past that section.
[21:34:55] <djdelorie> I think my existing step/direction interface can read PWM input too, but I'd have to actually try it to be sure it can measure %duty and not just pulse width
[21:37:15] <djdelorie> one project at a time, though ;-)
[21:37:37] <djdelorie> I need to take apart my ethernet switch for a few minutes to measure the fan for replacement, probably drop off for a while...
[21:38:12] <andypugh> The trick is to only ever work on one project at a time, then start a new one when the current one is 75% complete. That way you never fail.
[21:38:29] <ScribbleJ> Hrm, that sounds like how I operate.
[21:38:34] <ScribbleJ> I didn't know I was Doin it Right.
[21:38:46] <Tom_itx> andypugh how do you pull that off?
[21:39:02] <archivist> pfft we geeks have a recursive project stack :)
[21:39:23] <andypugh> Tom_itx: I am single, there's nobody to make me finish stuff.
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[21:39:39] <Tom_itx> heh
[21:40:12] <andypugh> It worked better during the week when I was an Academic, mind.
[21:40:54] <andypugh> Now I am in industry folk seem to expect their cars to be finished before they buy them. I need to get back into Academia.
[21:41:11] <ScribbleJ> That seems like a bad analogy.
[21:41:16] <ScribbleJ> I hope that's an analogy.
[21:41:31] <ScribbleJ> Of course people expect their cars to be finished before they buy them. A test drive is even common.
[21:41:43] <andypugh> I develop cars...
[21:41:52] <ScribbleJ> Oh.
[21:41:53] <ScribbleJ> Haa
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[21:45:23] <alex4nder-> andypugh: who do you work for/with?
[21:45:42] <andypugh> You might have heard of them. A company called Ford?
[21:46:13] <Tom_itx> who the hell are they??
[21:46:14] <ScribbleJ> I dunno, rings a bell. Do you have a link?
[21:48:04] <alex4nder-> andypugh: I am too am working for Ford. ;)
[21:48:07] <alex4nder-> -am
[21:48:14] <alex4nder-> as a subcontractor
[21:48:37] <andypugh> Oh? Which site?
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[21:49:05] <alex4nder-> I'm not in any of their facilities.. my company works for another company that works for another company.. etc.
[21:49:54] <Tom_itx> i have a friend who's sister's husband knows...
[21:50:17] <alex4nder-> exatly
[21:50:19] <alex4nder-> +c
[21:50:44] <roycroft> is that ford prefect's company?
[21:52:55] <andypugh> Aha! I am the driver here: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/spyshots/241198/ford_cmax_spied.html
[21:53:37] <andypugh> Yes, that is a small Winnie the Pooh zip-tied to the grill.
[21:54:27] <alex4nder-> nice
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[21:55:21] <andypugh> I think if we had known there was a photographer lurking in the bushes we might have removed the stuffed toy.
[22:04:26] <alex4nder-> or aimed the car at the photographer.
[22:05:25] <andypugh> There are locals make extra cash by photographing development cars. On that trip we shared the hotel with Bugatti.
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[22:39:56] <FinboySlick> I don't think Butatti had the same "All of my workers should be able to afford my cars" ideas.
[22:40:13] <FinboySlick> ... as Ford, I mean.
[22:41:03] <andypugh> No. In fact it was quite odd looking at the car. It was like looking at an airliner. An interesting bit of technology, but no thoughts at all what it would be like to own one.
[22:46:21] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Put some more work on the ball worm gear. I think the biggest issue is that the diameter of the groove/tooth on the gear which the balls have to follow will change depending on which part of the screw is engaged.
[22:46:52] <FinboySlick> It's a bigger diameter on the edges than in the center.
[22:47:14] <FinboySlick> But then I wondered, don't traditional worm gears have the same problem?
[22:47:25] <andypugh> Because of the hour-glass shape of the worm?
[22:47:28] <FinboySlick> Yes.
[22:47:49] <andypugh> I think they do, but compensate in the tooth shape.
[22:48:16] <FinboySlick> I'm not sure that's possible with a ball.
[22:48:53] <andypugh> No. Especially not if the plan is zero-backlash
[22:52:22] <FinboySlick> You think the ikona gear would be a better bet?
[22:55:16] <andypugh> I am not sure what that is
[22:55:32] <FinboySlick> http://ikona.ca/technologies_advantages.shtml
[22:56:35] <FinboySlick> It sounds ideal except for the inherent vibration.
[22:57:27] <andypugh> You know something slightly annoying? I invented that about 8 years ago.
[22:57:52] <FinboySlick> They purchased it from the russians a while before that.
[22:58:12] <FinboySlick> They used it for helicopters.
[22:58:28] <andypugh> I couldn't figure out how to get the required motion, actually. But I was trying to keep the whole thing less than 2mm thick.
[22:59:05] <andypugh> Ah, now you mention it, I think I saw one of the Russion gearboxes sectioned.
[22:59:46] <FinboySlick> If you can keep the wobble bit light enough, I'm sure it would be quite good for things like steppers.
[23:00:25] <FinboySlick> At least at the low ratio end of things.
[23:01:43] <FinboySlick> Or you could just drive the wobble from the coils directly.
[23:02:03] <FinboySlick> though I'm not sure if this would give you good positional accuracy.
[23:05:10] <FinboySlick> Hmm. Each full step would be 1/4 wobble. With a 100:1 ratio, you would get a very rigid 400 step/turn.
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[23:08:58] <andypugh> It might work, why not build one?
[23:09:16] <andypugh> I think the problem might be that the magnet gaps need to be large
[23:09:17] <FinboySlick> I plan to. Still haven't figured out the tooth shape.
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[23:09:38] <andypugh> Well, for a first protoype you could use the wrong tooth shape.
[23:09:39] <FinboySlick> Yeah, but at those ratios, the tooth are likely to be pretty small.
[23:10:15] <andypugh> I just bought an internal and external gear from HPC when I was experimenting.
[23:11:31] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I'm encouraged. And to think I'm taking a week's vacation and can't take the mill with me. I guess I could spend some time on the CAD.
[23:12:17] <FinboySlick> I dug out the patent and tried my best applying the formula, it was a tad tricky. I should have paid better attention in maths.
[23:13:03] <andypugh> "maths"? So, you are not in the US then?
[23:13:23] <andypugh> (I lose track)
[23:13:24] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I worship the same queen!
[23:13:29] <FinboySlick> (Canadian)
[23:13:39] <andypugh> Aha!
[23:15:43] <FinboySlick> I'm surprised she isn't more fat. She demands something like 50 gallons of maple syrup as tribute each year.
[23:15:55] <andypugh> Aye, Mrs Queen is quite busy, with 16 nations to rule.
[23:16:34] <andypugh> It is still technically true that the sun never sets on bits of the world that she is monarch of.
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[23:21:41] <Tom_itx> on the 7i47 is the IO direction on the pins a function of the card or the firmware?
[23:21:53] <jdhNC> card
[23:21:54] <Tom_itx> if i need more in than out can it be reconfigured?
[23:22:20] <jdhNC> the pin directions are in teh first few pages of the manual
[23:23:16] <Tom_itx> i know, i have theme well documented to their functions
[23:23:23] <andypugh> The FPGA card has reconfigurable pins, but the isolation boards have it defined in hardware.
[23:23:30] <Tom_itx> ok
[23:23:32] <Tom_itx> dammit
[23:23:38] <andypugh> Well, AFAIK.
[23:23:59] <Tom_itx> i didn't know what drivers they used
[23:24:25] <Tom_itx> it would be great if it were a function of the pin file
[23:26:34] <andypugh> I just read the manual, the directions are fixed
[23:26:43] <Tom_itx> what page?
[23:26:49] <Tom_itx> i'm looking at it
[23:26:55] <jdhNC> 7
[23:27:11] <andypugh> 5
[23:27:17] <Tom_itx> i must have a different file
[23:27:25] <andypugh> http://www.mesanet.com/pdf/motion/7i47man.pdf
[23:28:02] <jdhNC> mine has it on page 4 of the doc, page 7 of the pdf
[23:28:04] <Tom_itx> if i'm using the bare io on the 7i43 would it be good to buffer them?
[23:28:27] <Tom_itx> i'm trying to debug this limit switch problem
[23:28:51] <Tom_itx> i tried adding grounds and taking the signal to 5v
[23:28:56] <jdhNC> you aren't hooking the limit switches to the 7i47 are you?
[23:29:02] <Tom_itx> instead of the supplied 3.3v
[23:29:05] <Tom_itx> no
[23:29:12] <andypugh> I have my limits wired almost direct to the 7i43
[23:29:28] <Tom_itx> do you use shielded wire to them?
[23:29:42] <andypugh> But they are optical switches, so it's a bit different
[23:29:43] <Tom_itx> and where are you getting power for them?
[23:29:46] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:29:53] <Tom_itx> these are cheap micro switches
[23:30:30] <andypugh> Just short the 7i43 pin to 0V. Can't do any damage if the pin is an input.
[23:30:51] <andypugh> They have a weak pull-up, so go true when not pulled down.
[23:31:01] <Tom_itx> yeah
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[23:31:24] <Tom_itx> they work ok when the main supply is unplugged but soon as i plug in the stepper psu they fault
[23:31:33] <Tom_itx> i know it's a noise issue or something similar
[23:31:38] <Tom_itx> just trying to isolate it
[23:31:55] <jdhNC> watch it in halscope?
[23:32:11] <Tom_itx> i can see it fault on the screen
[23:32:29] <Tom_itx> what's halscope gonna do for me there?
[23:32:44] <jdhNC> see what the signal looks liek.
[23:33:01] <andypugh> The debounce hal function is your friend.
[23:33:15] <Tom_itx> does it show signal levels?
[23:33:36] <andypugh> Tom_itx: No, it only sees the digital values in HAL
[23:33:40] <jdhNC> it will show high/low transistions
[23:34:00] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/configs/sherline/
[23:34:05] <Tom_itx> there's my current config files
[23:34:45] <Tom_itx> i really don't wanna dig the scope out and haul it out to the garage...
[23:35:36] <Tom_itx> the limits are commented out in there right now
[23:36:03] <Tom_itx> gpio 43..47
[23:36:40] <andypugh> Tom_itx: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/linuxcnc_formerly_emc2/118704-home_limit_switch_bounce-2.html
[23:37:39] <Tom_itx> it could be but i don't think it's bounce as they never are tripped when it faults
[23:38:01] <Tom_itx> you think the machine may be vibrating them?
[23:38:18] <Tom_itx> it's really not in motion when it happens
[23:38:40] <Tom_itx> start of a move will cause a fault
[23:38:43] <andypugh> No, nothing to do with physical bounce.
[23:39:53] <andypugh> The HAL function means that the switch state only changes if the input has been the same for a certain mumber of thread cycles. So, you can reject noise spikes of less than a certain length.
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[23:40:09] <Tom_itx> i may give that a try
[23:40:22] <Tom_itx> should i be using 5v instead of 3.3?
[23:40:33] <andypugh> If you see spikes in Halscope, then that seems like something to try.
[23:40:51] <andypugh> I don't know. The 7i43 is a 3.3V card, I think
[23:40:59] <Tom_itx> i think so
[23:41:04] <Tom_itx> but i think it's 5v tolerant
[23:41:18] <Tom_itx> i'd use a 1k to 5v if i did
[23:42:19] <Tom_itx> W2 selects that
[23:42:28] <Tom_itx> mine is set to 5v tolerant
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