#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-06-03

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[00:00:01] <pfred1> well vextas
[00:02:10] <pfred1> I think these are the bipolar ones http://compare.ebay.com/like/190683033126?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y
[00:05:04] -!- ve7it [[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:05:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10847
[00:05:37] <r00t4rd3d> cheaper
[00:06:08] -!- freespace has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[00:06:18] <pfred1> oh a pac sci motor http://compare.ebay.com/like/130700611962?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y&cbt=y
[00:06:23] <pfred1> I always kinda liked those
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[00:16:04] <elmo40> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1986798693.png
[00:19:16] <pfred1> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1986800159.png
[00:20:15] <pfred1> I live way out in the woods
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[00:32:21] <JT-Shop> two more cannons are coming together :=)
[00:34:54] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop you gonna have to build a fort for them pretty soon
[00:35:04] <JT-Shop> we already have a fort
[00:35:27] <Tom_itx> these yours or your neighbors?
[00:35:38] <JT-Shop> the other children
[00:35:58] <Tom_itx> kids will play with fire given the chance
[00:36:01] <JT-Shop> one is like mine and one is slightly different
[00:36:04] <JT-Shop> you bet
[00:36:13] <JT-Shop> we like blowing things up
[00:36:22] <JT-Shop> very carefully mind you
[00:36:43] <JT-Shop> well except for Ray, we have to watch him closely
[00:37:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: What?! No road flare in the magazine yet?
[00:38:41] <JT-Shop> we prefer night vision...
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[00:39:24] <Jymmm> ah, come on.... one lit flare droped in the gun powder would do much
[00:39:34] <Jymmm> won't
[00:43:23] <JT-Shop> but they will see you if you light a flare
[00:43:56] <JT-Shop> did you have fun at phd?
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[00:44:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Going to tonight, had some other things I have to work on during the daytime.
[00:45:08] <JT-Shop> you want them to say oh shit someone is mad a the ....
[00:45:08] <Jymmm> arooo?
[00:45:17] <JT-Shop> well in the jerk it was the oil cans
[00:46:00] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Did you fall into the vat of beer; cause I'm not following what you're saying
[00:55:47] <Tom_itx> ok i get an occasional error but the limit switches seem much better
[00:56:18] <Tom_itx> what's the procedure to seek home using the limits?
[00:56:28] <Tom_itx> oh, i should remove that line from the ini i bet
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[01:01:04] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what values do you use for HOME_SEARCH_VEL and HOME_LATCH_VEL ?
[01:01:09] <Tom_itx> on your plasma
[01:02:18] <JT-Shop> http://gnipsel.com/shop/plasma/files/plasma.ini
[01:04:00] <atom1> ok
[01:04:15] <atom1> now, how can i zero the axis display once it's set?
[01:05:19] <JT-Shop> if you don't have any offsets it will be 0
[01:05:31] <atom1> like g54?
[01:05:54] <atom1> once i homed the axis it won't let me move them manually now
[01:06:24] <atom1> oh nevermind, it was me
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[01:13:36] <JT-Shop> whew!
[01:13:57] <atom1> trying to set the soft limits now
[01:14:01] <JT-Shop> is this Atom Ant?
[01:14:09] <JT-Shop> cool!
[01:14:11] <atom1> i still get some bounce but it's much better
[01:14:22] <atom1> i may add that bounce code to it
[01:14:26] <JT-Shop> bounce?
[01:14:36] <atom1> well, limit switch error
[01:14:36] <JT-Shop> during homing?
[01:14:42] <jdhNC> connor?
[01:14:48] <atom1> or during manual moves
[01:15:03] <JT-Shop> oh
[01:15:03] <atom1> the wiring made a big difference though
[01:15:20] <atom1> i'm still not quite done with it but i wanted to test what i had
[01:16:04] <atom1> does it matter if you use a plastic or metal screwdrive when you adjust the pots on the drivers?
[01:17:24] <JT-Shop> I think the pots are plastic so if it fits it will be ok
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[01:25:38] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVy0ZVQcl7E
[01:26:54] <pcw_home> Nice (Ive seen it but had forgotten about it)
[01:30:37] <atom1> had to set the positive soft limit to .1 since the axis zero is set .1 out from actual zero
[01:30:49] <atom1> does that sound about right?
[01:30:58] <atom1> i'd get a soft limit error otherwise
[01:31:25] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCupSOQp02U
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[01:38:05] <Connor> jdhNC: What's up?
[01:41:18] <pcw_home> pretty spirited fiddlin'
[01:41:41] <JT-Shop> I love it
[01:42:42] <JT-Shop> a favorite http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuEXM-i3t4
[01:43:25] <Connor> http://www.speedtest.net/result/1986870774.png
[01:45:07] <jdhNC> did you hook up your stepper enable lines?
[01:45:12] <Connor> yes.
[01:45:24] <jdhNC> relay?
[01:45:38] <Connor> Yes, and the BOB.
[01:46:02] <jdhNC> just short to disable?
[01:46:07] <Connor> no.
[01:46:20] <Connor> wire like you do the others.
[01:46:45] <Connor> I'll have to go look how I did it.. cause I don't recall.. but.. I can tell you how I did it in jsut a few
[01:46:56] <jdhNC> one output per driver? or one for all?
[01:48:02] <atom1> will debounce affect the end position of your limit switches on homing?
[01:48:46] <Connor> one for all.
[01:48:54] <Connor> off the PC 5v, into the enable +
[01:49:06] <atom1> i'm looking at hal scope and getting real short random pulses so i'm thinking i may need to add it
[01:49:08] <jdhNC> atom1: marginally. Put the undebounced and debounced on halscope and you can see how delayed it is
[01:49:14] <Connor> then I tied all the enable -'s together... and took that to the center contact of the relay.
[01:49:35] <Connor> NC side of relay to ground.
[01:49:41] <jdhNC> connor: so if the pc is dead, they are enabled.
[01:49:57] <jdhNC> s/dead/nonresponsive/
[01:49:58] <Connor> NO side of relay to a output pin on BOB.
[01:50:12] <Connor> Enabled, but, of course, no signal.. so no big deal.
[01:50:36] <Connor> so, in this setup. If the Charge pump kicks, it kills the relay, thus, completing the circuit.
[01:51:09] <jdhNC> oh yeah, I guess I should get one.
[01:51:12] <Connor> in the other way, if lips control over to the BOB, so if you drop the output pin on the BOB to ground... you can disable them too.
[01:51:18] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V04IBsz-9Wo
[01:51:40] <Connor> So, When you hit the power button in EMC (not E-Stop) it disables the drivers..
[01:51:57] <Connor> I can draw up schematic if you need.
[01:51:58] <jdhNC> JT: I have that on my driving-late-at-night cd
[01:52:13] <atom1> JT-Shop got lost in youtube tonight
[01:52:36] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Can you weld thing wall SS ?
[01:52:41] <Jymmm> thin
[01:52:51] <pcw_home> I remember when that came out
[01:52:52] <atom1> why not?
[01:53:21] <JT-Shop> so it seems... just giving you a taste of what I listen to
[01:53:36] <Connor> jdhNC: That make sense ?
[01:53:38] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: I can weld two beer cans into one
[01:53:52] <jdhNC> connor: yeah, but I have no charge pump.
[01:54:10] <jdhNC> and I can't find that other estop I've been hanging on to for a year
[01:54:10] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: SS beer cans? damn tough some tough beer!
[01:54:49] <Connor> Well, that relay is a DPDT relay, one side used for the drivers, the other used to send the 12v signal up to the relay that's used to control the AC side of the spindle.
[01:54:49] <Jymmm> jdhNC: It's in the same place where you lost your left sock at
[01:54:53] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSnc0fKvLpw
[01:55:33] <Connor> I need to draw out my schematic of how it's all wired up for mine, and other peoples benefit.
[01:56:18] <jdhNC> one night in bangkok on the sidebar
[01:56:33] <JT-Shop> Peter you got me on that one
[01:56:47] <Connor> jdhNC: Stepper Covers 1/3rd done. I need to cut out the 2nd layer parts and glue them on and resume the job..
[01:56:50] <Jymmm> jdhNC: There' s no such thing as ONE night in bangkok
[01:56:52] <pcw_home> RIP snakefinger
[01:57:39] <Connor> I had to adjust my end stops and soft limits from -9.5 -- 9.5 to -9.6 to 9.6 to get 5 of them on the board and have enough travel.
[01:58:18] <Connor> I changed the inner hub to be oblong instead of round to make a little easier to install..
[01:58:53] <Connor> After dinner I'll cut the 2nd layers and glue them on.. it'll take longer to do that then it will to pocket them out..
[01:59:08] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eq3YLhtuzTQ
[02:00:36] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udyNr0pY6ak
[02:02:01] <jdhNC> I found a little premade panel with a 4pdt relay and 2 SSR's I was going to use for e-stop, with spindle and drive power through an SSR
[02:02:46] <r00t4rd3d> I got this digital multimeter: http://i.imgur.com/61cHf.jpg And I got this power supply for my setup: http://i.imgur.com/C3fFC.png what do I set the dial to test the output of the power supply? :)
[02:03:58] <jdhNC> put the meter on 200vdc. 2 clicks ccw
[02:04:16] * Jymmm is tired of explaining estop to people that just heed the warning.
[02:04:57] * jdhNC nods sagely at jymmmm
[02:05:09] <Jymmm> jdhNC: So, you are using a safety relay?
[02:05:35] <jdhNC> of course not.
[02:05:50] <pcw_home> completely forgot about traffic
[02:05:50] * Jymmm just shakes his head
[02:06:05] <Jymmm> pcw_home: the bridge?
[02:08:52] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf-eIgFJg4w
[02:11:03] <pcw_home> Always enjoyed Tom Lehrer (pollution, Vatican Rag, New math)
[02:11:24] <JT-Shop> and the elements lol
[02:11:28] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cOgEZcFoHA&ob=av2n
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[02:12:39] <Connor> jdhNC: Were did you find it ?
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[02:15:02] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4EsTEpCZHE&feature=fvst
[02:15:50] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFabjc6mFk4
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[02:17:52] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG3PnQ3tgzY
[02:18:09] <pcw_home> what a young David Byrne but lets make this on topic:
[02:18:11] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc9DJnvlvoY
[02:19:00] <Tom_itx> does debounce not take Base_period as a parameter now?
[02:19:58] <JT-Shop> polecats...
[02:21:40] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8UKf65NOzM
[02:21:48] <ReadError_> http://i.imgur.com/hDq8B.jpg
[02:21:52] <ReadError_> kat kong
[02:22:04] <Tom_itx> i'll check back on that next week
[02:22:11] <JT-Shop> lol
[02:22:54] <Tom_itx> iirc, it was in the example somone posted for me but it doesn't appear in the docs
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[02:24:25] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcRZ_J_VgNc
[02:27:08] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp0qi80AvZM
[02:31:04] <pcw_home> Was in love with Kate bush in the 80s
[02:31:36] <Jymmm> pcw_home: I have a couple of her cd
[02:31:39] <Jymmm> 's
[02:34:48] <pcw_home> Cloudbusting is nice
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[02:35:18] <JT-Shop> she has a range in her voice that is amazine
[02:35:27] <JT-Shop> amazing
[02:35:39] <atom1> addf debounce.0 gives me an error
[02:36:16] <atom1> the example shows: addf debounce.0 base-thread which also gives an error
[02:36:31] <pcw_home> Yes no Ima Sumac but still amazing
[02:37:30] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEyG76Euo_k
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[02:46:51] <Connor> jdhNC: Where did you find the panel with 4pdt and 2 SSR at ?
[02:47:34] <r00t4rd3d> You are 1,181,079,556 seconds old.
[02:48:17] <ReadError_> 37 years?
[02:48:22] <r00t4rd3d> ya
[02:48:37] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.paulsadowski.org/BirthDay.asp
[02:50:15] <ReadError_> Cypress Tree
[02:50:15] <ReadError_> The Faithfulness - Strong, muscular, adaptable, takes what life has to give, happy content, optimistic, needs enough money and acknowledgment, hates loneliness, passionate lover which cannot be satisfied, faithful, quick-tempered, unruly, pedantic and careless.
[02:52:58] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0tnh0xeDzw
[03:04:26] <Tom_itx> meh, i'll debounce with caps
[03:04:44] <Tom_itx> i get a parport error when i try to use debounce
[03:04:55] <Tom_itx> the 7i43 doesn't wanna load right
[03:05:18] <Tom_itx> maybe i'm not initializing debounce right
[03:06:07] <pcw_home> 7I43 load happens before any of the other HAL stuff must be a syntax error of some kind
[03:08:08] <Tom_itx> loadrt debounce cfg=4
[03:08:35] <Tom_itx> then any attempt to addf debounce.0 or addf debounce.0 base-thread
[03:08:38] <Tom_itx> throws the error
[03:08:57] <pcw_home> sure
[03:09:13] <pcw_home> there should be no base thread
[03:09:21] <Tom_itx> the example showed it
[03:09:25] <Tom_itx> the docs didn't
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[03:09:35] <Tom_itx> but it still throws the error even without it
[03:09:57] <pcw_home> on servo thread?
[03:10:12] <Tom_itx> i didn't try it on servo thread
[03:10:30] <pcw_home> gots to be on some thread
[03:10:40] <Tom_itx> the docs don't show a thread setup now
[03:10:54] <pcw_home> and 7I43 should only have a servo thread
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[03:11:26] <Tom_itx> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/man/man9/debounce.9.html
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[03:11:52] <Tom_itx> just shows the loadrt line
[03:11:56] <Tom_itx> not the thread line
[03:12:14] <pcw_home> yep missing doco
[03:12:32] <Tom_itx> got an example?
[03:12:44] <pcw_home> missing addf line
[03:16:31] <Tom_itx> you're saying it should be addf debounce.0 servo_thread?
[03:16:55] <Tom_itx> or servo_period
[03:17:13] <pcw_home> thread
[03:19:42] <pcw_home> heres a fragment I found: http://codepad.org/uuxwTn5U/fork
[03:20:28] <Tom_itx> ok that locked the pc up
[03:21:03] <Tom_itx> first i tried addf debounce.0 servo-thread and got an error
[03:21:20] <Tom_itx> then i changed it to addf debounce.0.0 servo-thread and it locked up the pc
[03:24:46] <jdhNC> addf debounce.0 base-thread
[03:24:46] <jdhNC> setp debounce.0.delay 20
[03:24:46] <jdhNC> net zhome-raw <= parport.0.pin-12-in-not => debounce.0.0.in
[03:25:04] <Tom_itx> no base-thread with the 7i43 card he says
[03:25:19] <jdhNC> net zhome-filtered <= debounce.0.0.out => axis.2.home-sw-in
[03:25:38] <Tom_itx> i think i've got the latter part ok
[03:25:40] <jdhNC> hmm. let me know when you figure it out so I can use it with my 7i43 :)
[03:25:47] <Tom_itx> naw
[03:25:57] <Tom_itx> i may just use caps
[03:26:02] <Tom_itx> if this proves to be a pita
[03:26:25] <jdhNC> I have 4 switches that are fine, just that funky one on my Z
[03:26:43] <Tom_itx> i get spikes in halscope occasionally
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[03:27:32] <jdhNC> just sitting there, or when the switch is almost hit?
[03:27:51] <Tom_itx> just sitting
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[03:33:50] <atom1> net deb-home-x debounce.0.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[03:33:54] <atom1> now that throws an error
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[03:35:15] <pcw_home> debounce.0.0 i think
[03:35:44] <alex4nder> hmm
[03:36:04] <atom1> net deb-home-x debounce.0.0 in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[03:36:06] <atom1> errors
[03:36:23] <atom1> oh i see why
[03:37:20] <atom1> net deb-home-x debounce.0.0.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[03:37:26] <atom1> that's better
[03:38:21] <alex4nder> ok
[03:38:22] <alex4nder> fuck
[03:38:29] <alex4nder> I have an axis bug to report.
[03:38:31] <atom1> net debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:38:38] <atom1> now that errors
[03:38:52] <alex4nder> said bug just drove a 1/2" endmill into my table at full jog speed
[03:39:11] <atom1> ouch
[03:39:14] * alex4nder checks the price of a new Taig table.
[03:39:30] <alex4nder> anyone have axis open, and want to try to reproduce it?
[03:39:47] <atom1> i don't but i don't need a new table either
[03:39:52] <alex4nder> haha
[03:40:09] <atom1> stuff a block of wood there to test
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[03:41:15] <alex4nder> I can reproduce it in a simulated environment.
[03:41:18] <alex4nder> it's just an axis GUI bug.
[03:41:53] <alex4nder> but it has nasty control consequences.. Z axis doesn't stop moving if you have the jog-step pulldown open
[03:42:25] <atom1> ok which of these lines should be correct:
[03:42:26] <alex4nder> so if you're right over the table, like I was, and you're switching from Continuous to .001, but you miss a mouse click and hit page down, it goes continuously down, even after you've released the key.
[03:42:28] <atom1> net debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:42:30] <atom1> or
[03:42:41] <atom1> net deb-home-x.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:43:00] <atom1> the first one errors but it would be my logical choice of code
[03:43:05] <atom1> the 2nd one doesn't error
[03:43:34] <atom1> but i don't know if it works either
[03:43:46] <pcw_home> Does net need a signal?
[03:43:48] <pcw_home> net foox debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:43:48] <atom1> it just doesn't error
[03:44:00] <pcw_home> second wont do anything
[03:44:13] <atom1> the first has a signal doesn't it?
[03:44:28] <pcw_home> No a pin
[03:44:28] <atom1> or do i have to specify it again
[03:45:00] <atom1> net deb-home-x debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:45:03] <atom1> like that?
[03:45:37] <atom1> no that errors too
[03:45:38] <pcw_home> you cant reuse the signal for in and out
[03:45:51] <atom1> so it's just a place holder?
[03:45:58] <pcw_home> (its a short!)
[03:46:10] <atom1> it's a pita :)
[03:46:12] <pcw_home> wire name is how I think o f it
[03:46:37] <pcw_home> Not really its just a netlist scheme
[03:46:57] <atom1> net in-home-x debounce.0.0.in <= hm2_[HOSTMOT2](BOARD).0.gpio.046.in
[03:46:57] <atom1> net out-home-x debounce.0.0.out => axis.0.home-sw-in axis.0.pos-lim-sw-in
[03:47:01] <atom1> better?
[03:47:03] <atom1> that loads
[03:47:22] <pcw_home> yep now you need to set the times
[03:47:35] <atom1> that's done above i think
[03:47:56] <atom1> addf debounce.0 servo-thread
[03:47:56] <atom1> setp debounce.0.delay 20
[03:48:08] <skunkworks__> alex4nder: interesting... just tried it here and I see italso
[03:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> A CNC-Made 3D Topo Map
[03:49:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.jcopro.net/2012/05/13/a-cnc-made-3d-topo-map/
[03:49:09] <atom1> so the next instance will be: net in-home-y debounce.0.1.in ?
[03:49:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.jcopro.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/3d-topo-map-side-view-full.jpg
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[03:51:28] <pcw_home> the debounce man page says it uses a signed number for the delay so you should be able to detect signals before they happen!
[03:52:03] <atom1> awesome! i can predict the future!
[03:53:32] <atom1> ok, got them all coded with no apparent errors. i'll test it tomorrow
[03:54:16] <atom1> feel free to return to youtube now :)
[03:55:21] <pcw_home> Been watching to a BBC documentary about Sister Rosetta Tharp all along
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[03:56:21] <atom1> is the 7i46 for steppers?
[03:56:27] <atom1> for the 5i25..
[03:56:45] <pcw_home> 7I76?
[03:56:57] <atom1> err yeah whatever it is
[03:57:22] <atom1> the one with a gazillion io
[03:57:42] <pcw_home> Yea stepper and I/O (though too much I/O for a simple mill/lathe)
[03:58:26] <atom1> i could use the extra for my christmas lights
[03:59:28] <pcw_home> we will probably add a couple more encoder inputs on the I/O section for MPGs
[03:59:40] <atom1> was my next question
[03:59:54] <atom1> although i'm not using /A /B on mine
[04:00:28] <atom1> can that be done in firmware now?
[04:00:32] <atom1> bit file?
[04:00:44] <pcw_home> These would be the field I/O so single ended
[04:00:47] <atom1> or is that a hardware thing
[04:01:05] <pcw_home> It takes a 7I76 firmware update
[04:01:53] <pcw_home> we now have the 5I25 firmware update tool for LInux and should eventually have a sserial remote update tool
[04:02:59] <pcw_home> once its added to the firmware it will always be an option (mode)
[04:03:29] <atom1> i'd feel better if these switches were buffered but it's the only thing i don't have going thru the 7i47 card
[04:04:27] <pcw_home> If you worried a 300 Ohm or so series resistor will prevent most mishaps
[04:04:43] <atom1> on each input line
[04:05:16] <atom1> i'll likely add that once i get a cabinet for all this stuff
[04:05:18] <pcw_home> the 7I43 input are safe up to about 7-8V (and then usually the bus switch goes)
[04:05:51] <atom1> unless i get a spike they'll only see 3.3v or so, maybe 5
[04:06:10] <pcw_home> this is because the bus switches turn off at about 4V
[04:06:50] <atom1> maybe caps would be better debounce to absorb some of the spikes
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[04:07:57] <pcw_home> Not too likely a problem (there are clamp diodes to 3.3V and 0V)
[04:08:38] <pcw_home> But unlimited current negative inputs or positive inputs >7-8V will cause damage
[04:08:39] <atom1> these are going to the 2nd 50 pin header on the 7i43 though
[04:09:02] <pcw_home> all I/O is the same
[04:09:06] <atom1> ok
[04:09:37] <atom1> if it blows it'll be an excuse to get the 5i25
[04:11:05] <alex4nder> ner
[04:11:08] <atom1> ok, enough for one evening
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[04:11:15] <pcw_home> most time people have damaged 7I43s its 12V/24V on an I/O pin, or
[04:11:17] <alex4nder> colliding with the table took the machine out of tram as well
[04:11:17] <pcw_home> using a separate 5V supply and live plugging the parallel cable
[04:11:18] <atom1> thanks pcw
[04:11:19] <pcw_home> (so the external 5Vsupply leakage from line voltage goes through some random pin)
[04:11:33] <pcw_home> nite (for me too)
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[04:12:14] <pcw_home> well you found an important bug, you should be proud
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[04:12:27] <atom1> ? oh the docs?
[04:12:47] <pcw_home> alexanders crash
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[04:12:51] <atom1> ahh
[04:13:41] <atom1> am i better off running the mesa cards from the pc 5v or a separate 5v?
[04:13:47] <atom1> or does it really matter
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[04:14:05] <atom1> i added a smps 5v to my main supply last night
[04:14:26] <pcw_home> probably PC but if you use external make sure its grounded to PC ground
[04:14:47] <atom1> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/misc_stuff/5v_switcher.jpg
[04:14:54] <atom1> one of those little buggers
[04:15:25] <atom1> had to take off the input cap
[04:15:34] <atom1> but other than that it works fine
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[04:17:48] <texastiger> I have a question about running a parallel port tester in the axis gui. I would appreciate it if anyone can help me out with this.
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[04:46:08] <Jymmm> I think what you want is halscope http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/hal/tools.html#_halscope_a_id_sec_halscope_a
[04:50:22] <Jymmm> texastiger: dont ask to ask, just ask. if someone can help they will. But it's late at night so a replay may be delayed.
[04:50:51] <Jymmm> *reply
[04:58:03] <texastiger> not asking to just ask. I have been trying to run the parallel port tester. I can see the panel in the axis gui. When I create the ptest hal file and run EMC will not run
[04:58:41] <Jymmm> open a terminal and try to run linuxcnc from there.
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[04:59:36] <texastiger> I am quite new to linux. what is the command to do this in the terminal
[05:00:02] <Jymmm> I believe it's: linuxcnc
[05:00:32] <texastiger> I typed in EMC and this brought up the EMC program
[05:02:20] <texastiger> I do get a warning in the terminal that says xpress200 detected. I know this is the onboard video driver. Don't know if this will cause problems for me in the future
[05:02:57] <alex4nder> yoh
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[05:03:10] <Jymmm> if you entered emc, you might have an older version
[05:03:40] <Jymmm> If it's running, then it didn't crash, which it would if there was an issue and would display the error messages if any
[05:03:55] <texastiger> I am running 2.3
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[05:50:59] <jdhNC> I hooked a momentary NO start pushbutton up to halui.machine.on. When I push/hold the button, it does nothing. When I release the button it turns on.
[05:52:08] <r00t4rd3d> normally open
[05:52:16] <jdhNC> right, NO
[05:53:27] <jdhNC> it's inverted... nevermind :)
[06:08:03] <Jymmm> jdhNC: rising/falling edge
[06:12:28] <jdhNC> it also was 'on' whenever I started emc. Which is almost cool, but not quite.
[06:15:56] <Jymmm> heh
[06:17:19] <jdhNC> I used up 3 poles of my 4pole relay for this
[06:22:18] <jdhNC> r00t: ever get your PSU straightened out?
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[07:06:43] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:57:04] <archivist> sk
[07:57:35] <archivist> skunkworks, ebay item 160627539245 a bit pricey though
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[10:39:05] <Motioncontrol> hi michael all good
[10:42:06] <micges> hi
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[10:58:26] <r00t4rd3d> i just extruded a rod
[10:59:49] <r00t4rd3d> wasnt my first but I am pleased how it came out
[11:04:02] <r00t4rd3d> it was alittle rough around the edges to start and at one point I thought it was going to snap in two!
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[11:15:59] <r00t4rd3d> In the end though she stayed together. I was slightly sad to see her go down the line and away from my grasp.
[11:18:43] <r00t4rd3d> About 8 hours and I will try another.
[11:21:25] <r00t4rd3d> Im waiting on some bitch to bring me more material, my hopper is only half full.
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[13:30:28] <ScribbleJ> So uh.. what kind of pump do I get to watercool my spindle?
[13:30:57] <Jymmm> water pump
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[13:33:34] <Jymmm> aquarium pump
[13:36:09] <ScribbleJ> Oh
[13:36:15] <ScribbleJ> Why didn't I think of going to a fish store?
[13:36:19] <ScribbleJ> That sounds like a good idea.
[13:39:35] <rott> hi,
[13:40:47] <rott> i got linuxcnc to start with enabling ACPI2.0-support and disabling ACPI-APIC-support, now when i start linuxcnc, i get some errors and the hint to look into dmesg, and this says dmesg: http://pastebin.com/4g4fKbSP
[13:42:37] <rott> i also run the latency-test, which shows now some values, but when i close the latency-test window and start linuxcnc again, the same error msg appears in linuxcnc-window ?
[13:48:00] <r00t4rd3d> try version 8.04
[13:49:19] <rott> r00t4rd3d: an older version ?
[13:49:27] <r00t4rd3d> that will cure most rtapi errors on older equipment
[13:49:41] <rott> r00t4rd3d: i got no old equipment
[13:49:55] <r00t4rd3d> when kind of motherboard?
[13:50:15] <r00t4rd3d> is it older then 5 years?
[13:50:24] <rott> no
[13:51:19] <r00t4rd3d> the live cd comes in a couple different versions
[13:51:38] <r00t4rd3d> 10.4 and 8.04
[13:52:08] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.linuxcnc.org/iso/ubuntu-8.04-desktop-emc2-aj13-i386.iso
[13:52:27] <r00t4rd3d> you can update emc2 to the latest version of linuxCNC
[13:53:22] <r00t4rd3d> if you install it to the hard drive and not just run the live cd
[13:54:30] <rott> r00t4rd3d: thanks
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[13:59:09] <micges> rott: what values do you have in latency-test?
[14:00:10] <JT-Shop> what does the latency test show?
[14:00:21] <JT-Shop> lol, too slow typing
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[14:00:43] <rott> micges: max-servo: 1033217 max-servo-jitter: 52444 last-servo-interval:997703
[14:01:02] <JT-Shop> how long did you run the latency test?
[14:01:22] <rott> base-thread-max:66871 base-thread-jiter:41995 base-thread-last:24899
[14:01:34] <rott> JT-Shop: 1-2minutes
[14:02:11] <JT-Shop> run for an hour
[14:02:27] <Jymmm> 24 hours
[14:03:07] <rott> JT-Shop: just running? and then closing with the window-close-button ? what does this do? stores permanently the values or are they lost after closing?
[14:03:44] <Jymmm> lost in the wind
[14:03:59] <JT-Shop> run the latency test for an hour and it will show the worst latency and yes the values are gone when you close the latency test
[14:04:20] <rott> JT-Shop: are the values ok till now?
[14:05:07] <micges> during this hour load your pc with running 'glxgears' in 10 terminals
[14:05:39] <JT-Shop> the jitter number is the important one, yours are ok but not great but your running a 5isomething so you don't need a base thread anyway
[14:06:43] <rott> JT-Shop: because of the fpga on the 5i25 , is this handling the base thread?
[14:07:09] <JT-Shop> the 5i25 is faster than a base thread
[14:07:32] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Heh, I thought you typo'ed i5 =)
[14:08:03] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: How did the bottling go?
[14:08:43] <JT-Shop> real fast we bottled up 6 gallons and he headed back to Mississippi with his ill gotten booty
[14:09:01] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Drink a bottle, cap a bottle. Drink two bottles, cap two bottles. etc =)
[14:09:39] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: lol, right on. and a tank full of racing fuel to outrun the revenuers?
[14:09:51] <JT-Shop> by the end he was handing me caps to fill he was so tired from driving
[14:10:13] <JT-Shop> no beer was hurt during the bottling
[14:10:42] <Jymmm> Glad to hear no alcohol abuse had occured ;)
[14:11:24] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Question... why did you hose your chiler instead of tossing it into a bucket of ice?
[14:21:29] <rott> to just test manually the steppers, how can i do this? i mean, just driving in x-direction with some keystrokes or mouse-clicks, is there a way?
[14:23:14] <rott> the is the "manual control [F3]" panel , but how to use it? setting ESTOP to off and "toggle machine power" to on and then?
[14:23:48] <rott> selecting the x-axis and click on +-sign ?
[14:23:59] <JT-Shop> yea
[14:24:30] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: didn't read the chiller page fully...
[14:24:49] <rott> if i click three times on +-sign, i get "joint 0 following error"
[14:24:53] <JT-Shop> rott: also you can select the increments of the jog
[14:25:03] <JT-Shop> stepper?
[14:25:19] <rott> yes
[14:25:22] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: I did, and looked at every photo in detail. What did I miss?
[14:25:37] <JT-Shop> the secondary coil in the bucket of ice
[14:26:05] <JT-Shop> rott: http://linuxcnc.org/docview/html/common/Stepper_Diagnostics.html#_following_error
[14:26:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, why not two buckets of ice instead of hosing it?
[14:26:44] <JT-Shop> not as efficent
[14:27:13] <Jymmm> Really? how's that?
[14:27:37] <Jymmm> thermal dissapation?
[14:35:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: ok that didn't makes sense. So Primary is just a massive heat dump, and the secondary to get down to desired temp. What I don't quite get is how a 1-2" hose going to drop temp faster/better than a 16" wide bucket with running water through. Seems the bucket would have more thermal absortion mass to it.
[14:38:26] <JT-Shop> it has to do with the latent heat of fusion and the thermal transfer rate as the temperatures of the two masses change. I forget the exact calculations it's been a long time and the CFC is 25' long
[14:39:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: So it's not so much absorbtion, as much as dumping what has been absorbed as fast as posible?
[14:40:23] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: And you have the water running the opposite flow from the wort too?
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[14:43:45] <JT-Shop> yea the water runs from the outlet side to the inlet side so it is constanly taking heat from the wort
[14:44:19] <Tom_itx> is this some kind of drunken spindle cooler?
[14:44:21] <Tom_itx> :)
[14:45:29] <Tom_itx> i'm not awake yet. read ScribbleJ asking about spindle pumps and next thing i know i'm reading about cooling wort
[14:45:57] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Ok, cool. Interesting idea (the hose that is), I wouldn't have thught it would have been large enough diameter. So 1/2" copper and 1" CFC ?
[14:45:59] <JT-Shop> LOL
[14:46:20] <JT-Shop> I forget you would have to go back and look
[14:47:32] <Jymmm> 3/8" OD copper, but you dont say diameter of the tubing, just the length
[14:48:38] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Do you remember the OD of the copper fittings?
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[14:48:50] <JT-Shop> no
[14:49:13] <JT-Shop> is it important enough for me to go down and measure it?
[14:49:36] <Jymmm> Nah, if I need it I'll ask later on.
[14:49:43] <JT-Shop> k
[14:51:28] <Jymmm> I'm going to use an Instant hot water heater and the copper coil as a heating element, but I also may need a chiller and I like your idea more than the heat exchanger I showed you for $90 the other day. Plus I can use ice/salt water bath too.
[14:52:31] <Jymmm> can't use salt on copper =)
[14:54:24] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Two different "heat related" topics =)
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[15:22:35] <rott> is pncconf and stepconf the same ? they build files in config folder?
[15:23:28] <pcw_home> stepconf is for parallel ports, pncconf is for Mesa cards
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[15:45:02] <jthornton> your getting sleepy... your eyes are closing... sleepy
[15:45:08] <jthornton> wow it works
[15:45:12] <jthornton> nap time
[15:45:17] <Jymmm> CODE WORD!!!
[15:45:21] <Tom_itx> is the ass magnet working?
[15:45:27] <Jymmm> and. G'night =)
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[16:06:48] <joe9> cradek: wondering if you have any pics of your probe? http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508
[16:07:17] <joe9> i just blew my fixture and the engraving when I made a mistake of a wrong z-axis touch off point.
[16:07:32] <joe9> and, am looking to avoid doing that again with your automatic touch-off stuff.
[16:08:03] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/emc/probe_index.php
[16:08:08] <Tom_itx> there's one i did
[16:08:28] <Tom_itx> still waiting to use it
[16:09:14] <joe9> Tom_itx: how does that work with setting the tool length?
[16:09:23] <joe9> or, is it for a different purpose?
[16:09:45] <joe9> http://softsolder.com/2010/04/14/emc2-ugliest-tool-length-probe-station-ever/ is what I am trying to do.
[16:09:47] <Tom_itx> i would probably use mine more for finding x and y G54 offsets
[16:09:51] <joe9> almost like a touch-off plate
[16:10:26] <Tom_itx> i just thought it would be a good thing to make
[16:11:47] <Loetmichel> joe9: hrhr, a BIT more precise would be nice ;-)
[16:11:59] <Tom_itx> i think you need a fairly flat surface to touch on
[16:12:28] <joe9> http://forscience.nl/?p=144 touch-off plate. Loetmichel
[16:12:37] <Tom_itx> i got a thin gage block to use possibly
[16:12:42] <Loetmichel> the snapper type momentary keyboard switches are not SO bad, but there should be a plate in exactly level over it
[16:12:42] <Tom_itx> .1"
[16:13:11] <Tom_itx> another option was to get an actual touch tool and mod it to wire into linuxcnc
[16:13:26] <Tom_itx> those are spring loaded
[16:13:56] <joe9> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#Single_button_probe_touchoff i am trying to figure out how this works.
[16:14:09] <joe9> will the drill bit not jam into the steel plate below
[16:14:29] <joe9> or, does it try to touch the edge of the steel plate rather than on it.
[16:14:31] <Tom_itx> it was just a thought
[16:14:37] <Tom_itx> i haven't implemented it yet
[16:16:34] <Tom_itx> http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?r=s&n=||UserSearch1%3Dprobe&q=block+id+33676+and+class+level3+id+29043
[16:17:48] <ScribbleJ> I have done tool probe on my reprap in that manner, using the printhead and the printbed to form a switch.
[16:18:03] <ScribbleJ> Seems a little riskier on a powerful machine though.
[16:18:04] <joe9> ScribbleJ: yes, that is what I am planning.
[16:18:11] <Tom_itx> it needs a bit of give somehow
[16:18:17] <ScribbleJ> yeah -
[16:18:20] <joe9> how do you make sure that the head does not jam into the bed?
[16:18:23] <ScribbleJ> Well
[16:18:30] <Tom_itx> also considered a piece of FR4
[16:18:32] <ScribbleJ> First off, the reprap motors aren't strong enough to push through the bed.
[16:18:44] <ScribbleJ> Secondly, I mounted the print head and the bed on springs.
[16:18:56] <joe9> but, the bit would be destroyed with too much pressure.
[16:18:56] <ScribbleJ> Not really an option for a stiffer machine
[16:19:09] <joe9> ha, the springs..
[16:19:25] <Tom_itx> jt would tell you to set it with a dowelpin
[16:19:37] <Tom_itx> bring it down then roll the pin under it until it passes thru
[16:19:46] <Tom_itx> as you bring the tool back up
[16:19:50] <joe9> i know. I set it manually and destroyed a bit/fixture with my mistake.
[16:20:00] <joe9> I am thinking of a more automated way of doing that.
[16:20:11] <ScribbleJ> I was just thinking about putting a microswitch on the bed someplace predictable and touching the tool to it on my CNC. Is that not going to work?
[16:20:34] <joe9> http://softsolder.com/2010/04/14/emc2-ugliest-tool-length-probe-station-ever/ ScribbleJ: like this
[16:20:40] <Tom_itx> it needs to be flat and have some give
[16:20:59] <ScribbleJ> joe9, yea, like that, more or less.
[16:21:40] <joe9> ScribbleJ: how did you connect that input to the axis gui?
[16:22:02] <joe9> ScribbleJ: or, did you do that manually?
[16:22:34] <ScribbleJ> joe9, I haven't done it yet.
[16:23:06] <joe9> cradek's routines seem to do that. http://timeguy.com/cradek/01262579508
[16:23:16] <joe9> but, i do not know how his probe works.
[16:23:57] <Tom_itx> similar to any other i presume
[16:24:35] <Tom_itx> i'm not sure i've coded mine yet, i may have
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[16:31:27] <fireit> hi @ all
[16:31:53] <fireit> anyone got a sec?
[16:33:36] <fireit> im trying to set up emc2 so it can be used with a cnc that has been converted into a 3d printer but i cant seem to get emc2 to open the g code files from skeinforge
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[16:48:13] <micges> fireit: pastebin.com that gcode file
[16:48:37] <Tom_itx> ya, you may need to edit it a bit
[16:49:40] <MattyMatt> fireit, tell 'em about the .hal errors. they're more important first I think
[16:50:02] <micges> fireit: and here you have docs about emc2 gcode: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/gcode/overview.html
[16:50:07] <fireit> i have tried adding the lines in the .ini file that is on http://reprap.org/wiki/EMCRepRap
[16:54:01] <fireit> the instructions have me add the line [AXIS] into my_mill.ini [AXIS]
[16:54:02] <fireit> ... PROGRAM_PREFIX = /script/folder
[16:54:02] <fireit> PYVCP = /script/folder/repstrap-extruder.pyvcp
[16:54:32] <fireit> i have changed the paths to correct ones tho
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[16:55:27] <MattyMatt> and that pyvcp was written for emc2 2.3 or 2.4, will it need fixing or rewriting for 2.5?
[16:55:41] <MattyMatt> ^q to room
[16:56:34] <fireit> would an idea be to download an older version of emc2
[16:57:37] <MattyMatt> it might help, if you just want the printer running
[16:58:44] <fireit> ill try that i think sounds like a plan
[16:59:32] <MattyMatt> all the emc2 repstrap activity was a couple years ago, when 2.3 was current
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[17:01:26] <MattyMatt> I started building 2.5 from latest source but I gave up for some reason, I forget what. lazyness probably
[17:01:47] <MattyMatt> just in simulator mode on debian 6
[17:01:55] <fireit> well if i get it working ill post on the wiki then others wont fall int o same trap
[17:02:49] <MattyMatt> there's at least 5 different ways on that page already. who's were you following?
[17:03:19] <fireit> sam
[17:03:27] <fireit> sam0737
[17:03:32] <MattyMatt> I gotta put an extruder on my mill and try this myself :)
[17:04:25] <fireit> i just finished designing and getting parts for my mill and i saw thingiverse adn daym
[17:04:33] <MattyMatt> only tricky hardware bit is getting an a/d for the thermistor
[17:04:52] <fireit> a/d/
[17:04:55] <fireit> a/d?
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[17:05:34] <MattyMatt> simplest way is an arduino :p and once you get that it's simpler to use sprinter firmware etc
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[17:06:03] <MattyMatt> a/d = analog to digital
[17:06:23] <fireit> o i c
[17:06:51] <fireit> i already got an arduino laying around somwhere
[17:07:04] <fireit> so ill use that for temp controll
[17:08:26] <MattyMatt> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ContributedComponents#Arduino_ADC_PWM_and_digital_I_O
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[17:09:24] <MattyMatt> http://axis.unpy.net/01198594294 that's probably all for an older emc2 too
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[17:10:45] <fireit> yea i c
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[17:15:47] <MattyMatt> you could probably connect the drivers through the arduino and still drive them with emc2, but you lose the real-time benefits of emc2, or linuxcnc we are supposed to say now
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[17:20:04] <fireit> think its probably better to just get old version of emc2 and try that ,think the cnc to printer conversion work has stopped for now
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[17:22:05] <MattyMatt> mill an extruder first :D
[17:23:36] <MattyMatt> you could have the temperature controller independent. make it for 24V with a K-type thermocouple and you can use a soldering station base
[17:23:36] <fireit> yea that would be a good idea , i was just trying to get software working first before i start as its usually easiest part lol
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[17:25:32] <MattyMatt> btw skeinforge is almost obsolete. we all use slic3r for generating gcode these days
[17:25:36] <fireit> i was going to have it independent anyway
[17:26:04] <fireit> i looked into that ill see if it can generate code for emc to use
[17:26:33] <Tom_itx> get up to date 2.5 linuxcnc and start with it
[17:26:39] <MattyMatt> it can't really, but emc2 can filter the files
[17:27:12] <Tom_itx> then future changes won't hurt so bad
[17:27:27] <MattyMatt> yeah I should do that too before I try it
[17:28:23] <MattyMatt> M codes above 100 already trigger external files, so most reprap specific stuff is dealt with by that
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[17:28:58] <MattyMatt> but there are other subtle differences that need working around
[17:31:19] <MattyMatt> I'm still upset about the parport on thinkpads not working as EPP. that's stymied most of my plans
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[17:32:16] <MattyMatt> ECP should still work tho, right? with fewer pins available?
[17:32:20] <fireit> i had to dig out an old desktop
[17:32:35] <fireit> i think it needs to give out 5v
[17:32:53] <MattyMatt> that depends what it's connected to
[17:33:26] <MattyMatt> 74hc16 inputs on my TB6560 boards should accept 3.3V signals
[17:33:56] <fireit> i have the tb6560 and i couldent get it to go on 3.3v
[17:33:59] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i have used a x21 and a x60s (with ultrabase) for EMC2, without any problems on the lpt
[17:34:18] <MattyMatt> T30 and T40 here
[17:34:30] <Loetmichel> wit a L297 and a tb6560 board
[17:34:34] <aircraft> i'm using a cheap Oxford based pcmcia LPT adapter on t61 and it works well
[17:35:29] <Loetmichel> the x21 is a bit slow and less ram for actual linuxcnc
[17:36:10] <Loetmichel> with the old '06 ubuntu live cd it has run , though
[17:36:22] <Loetmichel> s/ has/had
[17:36:41] <pcw_home> Not using a HCT input chip for a parallel port interface is rather a design botch
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[17:37:28] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:38:52] <MattyMatt> I guess I should be glad my t30 and t40 have pcmcia :p modern lappy don't even have that
[17:39:27] <pcw_home> there are express card parallel ports (but beware some are USB based)
[17:39:29] <MattyMatt> I tried through the port-replicator on the t30
[17:39:44] <IchGuckLive> there are somany cheep old NB that support all kind of connects
[17:40:17] <MattyMatt> mine both have mini-pci (no e) and they are both full of wifi
[17:40:54] <aircraft> i mean pc-card
[17:41:20] <MattyMatt> cardbus?
[17:41:35] <aircraft> yup
[17:41:47] <MattyMatt> yep I need that. I just hate spending :)
[17:41:55] <pcw_home> some PC-card interfaces (PCI) support PCMCIA (ISA)
[17:42:28] <aircraft> my t61 have both pc-card and xpress card
[17:42:47] <aircraft> thats very usable
[17:44:10] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: isnt it: EVERY cardbus interface can fall back to PCMCIA?
[17:44:30] <pcw_home> No sure if thats true anymore
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[17:45:05] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: is there a wire schematic for limit sensors NPN or PNP
[17:45:19] <IchGuckLive> i think they are caled halsensors in English
[17:45:20] <pcw_home> for?
[17:45:26] <IchGuckLive> 7i76
[17:45:40] <pcw_home> 7I76 needs PNP sensors
[17:45:44] <MattyMatt> is there no demand for an anythingIO that size? :) dunno where you'd fit the IDC-50 tho
[17:46:31] <pcw_home> probabl just make a express card bus extender with a cheap HS cable (SATA?) to a external PCIE card
[17:46:50] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: a hall(!)sensor isnt a inductive limot switch
[17:46:54] <Loetmichel> limit
[17:47:11] <pcw_home> so PNP sensor + to +12/+24 gnd to gnd out to 7I76 input
[17:47:14] <Loetmichel> thats a different principle
[17:47:26] <IchGuckLive> ok
[17:47:40] <IchGuckLive> induktiv or kapaz
[17:48:07] <Loetmichel> hall-> magnetic inductive switches: ac field dampened by metal
[17:48:11] <pcw_home> also best to be off when tripped
[17:48:18] <pcw_home> (NC)
[17:48:30] <pcw_home> safety wise
[17:48:45] <MattyMatt> annoying thing about EPP is I'm convinced the intel chipset used can handle it, but the bios doesn't support it
[17:48:50] <Loetmichel> pcw_home: hmmm, i had a emergency switch on my last mill...
[17:48:58] <Loetmichel> 3 years
[17:49:07] <IchGuckLive> so its an opener pcw
[17:49:20] <Loetmichel> deactivated it after the second day... ( non shielded cable, bad idea)
[17:49:21] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[17:50:26] <pcw_home> yeah you want it so a broken or shorted to ground signal causes a fault (thats why we chose PNP sensors/NC switches to V+)
[17:51:48] <IchGuckLive> Thanks
[17:52:28] <pcw_home> MattyMatt: The normal IEEE1284 mode setting stuff does not work on the hardware?
[17:52:55] <pcw_home> I would expect any semi- modern hardware to support EPP mode
[17:53:31] <pcw_home> (other than the broken MOSChip/NetMOS parts)
[17:55:48] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: do you got a example line for linuxcnc hal to read the input from that switch
[17:56:38] <IchGuckLive> i got the 5i25 7i76 kit
[17:59:58] <IchGuckLive> TB6 pin5 if posible
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[18:07:27] <Loetmichel> hrmpf... vmware player update... *waaaiiiiit*
[18:07:32] <pcw_home> hm2_5i25.0.7i76.0.0.input-00-not would be the first input pin
[18:07:54] <IchGuckLive> thanks
[18:08:33] <pcw_home> "not" so its false when not on the limit with a NC switch
[18:08:38] <Loetmichel> shi* that corel8 doesent run with win7... need it to generate the gcode ;-)
[18:08:47] <IchGuckLive> got that
[18:08:53] <Loetmichel> reboot...
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[18:11:04] <jd896> Is there any body around the Sheffield uk area
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[18:12:46] <aircraft> found vexta stepper with harmonic reducer 100:1, is it suitable for rotary axis?
[18:15:28] <aircraft> this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/250970885942
[18:15:34] <archivist> aircraft, should be, been looking for one myself
[18:17:28] <aircraft> this guy has a lot of them http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=harmonic+vexta&_sacat=0&_odkw=harmonic&item=250971440409&pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&_osacat=0&hash=item3a6f104519&_ssn=fa-parts
[18:17:42] <aircraft> ith different ratio
[18:19:05] <archivist> the oriental motor websites take a little navigating though to find info
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[18:20:50] <Loetmichel> re
[18:22:26] <MattyMatt> pcw_home I had no luck. could the ieee1284 settings override the mode set in bios?
[18:32:01] <pcw_home> Yeah since the BIOS only does it at startup
[18:34:21] <pcw_home> There are a couple of utilities around that ought to be able to set the mode
[18:34:23] <pcw_home> (if you search the EMC2 users list archives I think you could find them)
[18:34:40] <MattyMatt> cool. I'll give that another shot
[18:35:38] <pcw_home> I think code has been added to most drivers that need EPP mode to turn it on to get around similar problems with the Intel D510 and D525 MBs (which have defective BIOss as far as setting PP mode goes)
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[18:37:53] <MattyMatt> more psu needed first. one fell under a cushion and baked itself :p I'm lucky it didn't ignite
[18:41:14] <pcw_home> I do worry a little about all these plastic wall warts. Wonder how often they burst in flames?
[18:41:28] <MattyMatt> has anyone made a harmonic drive? they seem fairly simple once you've got the right steel for the flexible part
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[18:43:06] <MattyMatt> cutting the fixed internal splines would be tricky too maybe, without a shaper
[18:43:42] <archivist> mill and a rotary
[18:44:58] <MattyMatt> depends what tooth shape I guess. I'm assuming trapezoidal
[18:46:05] <MattyMatt> based on my schemes to hack them together out of drive belt and drink cans :)
[18:46:54] <archivist> there was a large mill thread on the mailing list with an interesting method of internal milling
[18:48:10] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn7tsNG6pyo
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[18:48:33] <MattyMatt> I'm making a belt drive rotary, which will suffice just to make a worm drive one, and then 3rd iteration will be good enough to make the 202 tooth outer gear :)
[18:50:01] <MattyMatt> or is it 200 outer and 198 inner, for 100:1? I forget
[18:51:28] <MattyMatt> it is 202 outer and 200 flexible, if I'm thinking straight
[18:54:01] <MattyMatt> meh if I was thinking straight I'd buy one. there was one on ebay.de with faceplate and mount which went for €150
[18:55:52] <MattyMatt> it was too long to use across my fixed gantry X tho
[18:56:21] <MattyMatt> I need a flatter worm drive one
[18:58:05] <archivist> worms can have poor accuracy
[18:58:34] <archivist> make sure the ratio is high
[18:58:57] <MattyMatt> my first one will use M8 as the worm :)
[18:59:16] <MattyMatt> 180 teeth on the gear, cut with a tap
[18:59:50] <MattyMatt> accurate and strong enough for woodwork
[19:03:05] <MattyMatt> at least woodwork. I'm trying not to make wooden machine parts anymore if I can help it
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[19:04:31] <MattyMatt> it's depraved and hopeless. even if you get them straight, the weather changes or parts compress
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[19:07:22] <aircraft> i think inner shape can be done with EDM
[19:07:23] <MattyMatt> my vice has pressed a groove into my bed. leveling that is hopeless
[19:07:41] <MattyMatt> arr EDM may work
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[19:08:29] <MattyMatt> if you have a rotary that can stand being at the bottom of the oil bath
[19:08:40] <MattyMatt> I don't. mine is wood :p
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[19:10:34] <MattyMatt> and the belt is an old natural rubber one
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[20:03:11] <jd896> Is any body available for support in Sheffield uk I've also asked on the forum
[20:04:19] <JT-Shop> closest one I know of is archivist but I think he is playing with steam engines today
[20:04:32] <JT-Shop> he said he was 60 miles south of you
[20:05:09] <archivist> jd896, back home now :)
[20:05:19] <JT-Shop> wow there he is
[20:05:41] <archivist> its 9pm now
[20:07:05] <jd896> Hi archivist I'm after somebody with abit more than my zero experience in tuning servo pids I have been retrofitting our esab profiler and the tuning seams to be taking for ever
[20:08:21] <jd896> I've got the following error down to about 0.15 mm on the cross
[20:08:41] <archivist> it may be sensible to ask in here when doing it as many have experience
[20:09:09] * archivist not been reading forum
[20:11:46] <jd896> Yeah I think it's down on active members recently
[20:13:21] <archivist> have you seen http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Tuning_LinuxCNC/HAL_PID_Loops
[20:15:24] <pcw_home> tuning methods also really depend on whether you have torque mode or velocity mode drives
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[20:19:48] <jd896> There velocity mode drives I think I'm getting there I just know that I need this machine back running ASAP and feel others will achieve this soon than me ill get there I'm just not sure how long it'll take could easy spend another week with Hal scope and the tuning this the y axis I think
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[20:21:34] <jd896> But one question I do have is will backlash cause major tuning issues I ask because the y axis has some in its planetary gearbox and I think that cause me some harder tuning hurdles
[20:22:29] <jd896> Yeah I did read that those links no longer work tho
[20:23:14] <jd896> Also read another good one on the wiki showing the Hal tuning
[20:23:28] <pcw_home> might make it harder to tune if the motor load changes (a bare motor is very difficult to tune)
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[20:23:57] <pcw_home> I would do things in this order:
[20:23:59] <pcw_home> P
[20:24:01] <pcw_home> FF1
[20:24:02] <pcw_home> I
[20:24:04] <pcw_home> D
[20:24:45] <jd896> Yeah I assumed it may but then I thought of mills with the constantly differing loads
[20:24:59] <pcw_home> that is for a velocity mode drive dont use any I until you are very close (as it will make tuning FF1 impossible)
[20:25:31] <pcw_home> Loads are different but mass is mostly the same
[20:25:31] <jd896> Ah that's different to what I've seen before pcw I'll try that approach
[20:25:57] <jd896> I noticed that also it adds instability very quick
[20:26:26] <pcw_home> yeah the integral term will "fix" things you need to see
[20:29:23] <jd896> How so it sempt maybe dampened the loop down a bit but I maybe wrong
[20:30:16] <pcw_home> A velocity mode drive should not need much if any D
[20:30:18] <pcw_home> (that should be handled in the drive but of course that may need tuning as well)
[20:31:41] <jd896> The following error I have is limited buy deceleration as this is the only real following error Shown on the scope
[20:32:55] <jd896> The drives have no internal tuning that I can tell there's only tho adjustments on them but I'm unsure what there for
[20:34:07] <pcw_home> are these older analog drives?
[20:34:30] <jd896> Yes the machines a 1989year
[20:36:23] <pcw_home> You might do a little check for zero (set output to 0, enable drives and see if they drift)
[20:36:26] <pcw_home> Though it would be good to know which of the pots sets the zero
[20:37:45] <jd896> Yeah I have had to change the y to get It to sit still tho the change was it pncconf
[20:38:13] <jd896> The x sat still on its own when enabled
[20:46:01] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:46:19] <jd896> Have you any ideas on taming the overrun
[20:46:42] <pcw_home> so one of the pots on Y could be adjusted (if you knew which one)
[20:46:44] <pcw_home> probably one is zero and the other is gain
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[20:47:51] <jd896> Yes maybe do you think it's better to zero the drive rather than set an offset
[20:47:55] <pcw_home> try tuning the P, FF1,D.I method
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[20:49:17] <pcw_home> Adjust P until is oscillates then back off till stable, then do a long high speed cruise
[20:49:19] <pcw_home> and adjust FF1 for minimum error during the cruise part
[20:50:08] <jd896> Thanks I will do. I'll also try zeroing the drive will the open loop test set to zero do for this
[20:51:18] <pcw_home> (depending on FF1 value the actual position during cruise will lead or lag the commanded position)
[20:51:55] <jd896> When you say till it oscillates do you mean during a cruse
[20:54:03] <jd896> As appose to oscillating if I nudge the head
[21:02:06] <pcw_home> when you nudge it
[21:03:28] <pcw_home> oscillating means major movement , not a few encoder count buzzing
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[21:06:21] <jd896> Right similar to the Ziegler–Nichols method. But with out the maths
[21:07:22] <pcw_home> Yes
[21:09:08] <jd896> So I get it unstable then back off till I can knock it without it getting upset
[21:12:02] <pcw_home> A fancier way is to rig up a square wave position command and adjust for something a little less than critical damping
[21:13:34] <pcw_home> (that is a little overshoot is optimum)
[21:17:26] <jd896> Well that being the case my x axis has very little following error during cruse and accel (buy small I mean less than say 0.05mm it's just the spike on deceleration that raises the following error to 0.15mm then again this is an old plasma gantry am I asking too much maybe
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[21:19:00] <pcw_home> did you retune with I last? if "I" is compensating for FF1 it will overshoot at the end
[21:20:34] <pcw_home> (and under shoot at the beginning)
[21:20:44] <jd896> The I valve is maybe 0.000001 where as the p is 1 and d is 0.01
[21:21:17] <pcw_home> make sure I is zero or you cannot tune FF1
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[21:22:21] <jd896> Right I'll change that tomorrow when I continue public holiday or not
[21:23:08] <jd896> I'll be there
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[21:35:27] <jd896> Whist I'm on here I keep seeing the post scripts people have been changing for linuxcnc use are generally fanuc ones to start is there any control in particular that's the closest ?
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[21:49:12] <Tom_itx> fanuc is pretty generic
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[21:58:22] <jd896> How so im after a close post to start with so there's less editing
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[21:58:37] <jd896> I use bobcad
[21:58:44] <jd896> V21
[22:00:46] <Tom_itx> i don't think i had to change my post much if any
[22:00:58] <Tom_itx> i use smartcam
[22:01:50] <jd896> What post did you chose or do they have one for linuxcnc ?
[22:02:25] <Tom_itx> one i wrote for my sherline
[22:02:36] <Tom_itx> which was probably a fadal or fanuc originally
[22:08:01] <JT-Shop> jd896: bobcrap has an EMC post
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[22:08:54] <alex4nder> anyone want to try reproducing a bug for me?
[22:08:56] <alex4nder> in axis
[22:09:10] <jd896> Yeah I've just done a search for that dunno why I hadn't already
[22:09:29] <tom3p> hello? is psha's irc archive down?
[22:10:12] <mhaberler> backup here. http://linuxcnc.mah.priv.at/irc/
[22:10:18] <tom3p> thx!
[22:11:07] <mhaberler> alex4nder: if you want it fixed, your best option is to file a bug and describe the steps there
[22:12:28] <alex4nder> mhaberler: I can fix it myself and post a patch, I just want to make sure I'm not crazy before I dive into the code.
[22:12:39] <alex4nder> so I'm asking if anyone sees the same behavior
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[22:13:13] <mhaberler> if you have a patch, that bumps up the motivation, so go ahead!
[22:13:24] <alex4nder> ...
[22:13:37] <mhaberler> which version?
[22:13:45] <alex4nder> which brings me back to my question: anyone want to reproduce the issue?
[22:13:57] <alex4nder> I see it in the head of master, and older.
[22:14:30] <mhaberler> ok, so we'll have to find the oldest branch which has it, how far back did you try?
[22:14:41] <jdhNC> alex4nder: the axis jog thing?
[22:14:44] <alex4nder> jdhNC: yah
[22:15:13] <mhaberler> did you recently mail about it?
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[22:15:21] <jdhNC> does it here also. Pretty hazardous
[22:15:27] <alex4nder> ok, cool, thanks.
[22:15:37] <alex4nder> yah, it's a horrible bug.
[22:15:43] <alex4nder> my table has a nice 1/2" hole in it now.
[22:15:55] <mhaberler> what was the subject of your post, users or dev?
[22:16:01] <jdhNC> my estop works :)
[22:16:03] <alex4nder> I haven't posted anything, it happened yesterday.
[22:16:11] <alex4nder> jdhNC: my estop works too.. I had about 400 mS to react.
[22:16:14] <alex4nder> not gonna happen.
[22:16:23] <mhaberler> then did you post it here? I just remember something along these lines
[22:16:24] <jdhNC> I tested with my drives off
[22:16:33] <alex4nder> jdhNC: I was mid-touchoff.
[22:16:38] <alex4nder> about .5" over the table
[22:16:41] <alex4nder> tweaking the Z height
[22:16:49] <jdhNC> nobody wants a perfect table
[22:16:52] <alex4nder> haha
[22:17:04] <alex4nder> well now I don't get one, whether I like it or not. ;)
[22:20:35] <mhaberler> so?
[22:20:54] <jd896> Night lads thanks for the help
[22:21:38] <alex4nder> mhaberler: so what?
[22:22:02] <jdhNC> alexander: http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2883&category=
[22:22:05] <mhaberler> did you describe it on irc - and if so, which day? this channel or dev?
[22:22:31] <alex4nder> jdhNC: already own one
[22:22:48] <alex4nder> it would have been great if it was on the table when this happened.
[22:23:13] <alex4nder> mhaberler: it's simple to reproduce in axis,.. click the jog pull down once, and hit page down or page up
[22:23:27] <jdhNC> but, disable your drives first.
[22:23:29] <alex4nder> it doesn't catch the release event.
[22:23:30] <alex4nder> yes
[22:23:38] <alex4nder> please do it in axis sim, or with everything else off
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[22:25:15] <mhaberler> realistically, this is a jepler-is-the-only-one-who-understands-it issue
[22:25:53] <mhaberler> I dont have a PC keyboard so I cant reproduce it right now
[22:26:06] <alex4nder> you can reproduce it by sending the keyboard event.
[22:26:09] <alex4nder> I ran into it using a joystick
[22:28:33] <mhaberler> I think I reproduced it on Mac/Virtualbox/sim - result: continuous jog?
[22:29:08] <mhaberler> I repeat my recommendation: file a bug
[22:29:52] <alex4nder> ...
[22:29:59] <alex4nder> thank you for your recommendation.
[22:30:18] <micges_> alex4nder: here I see the same bug
[22:30:35] <alex4nder> ok, thanks.
[22:31:07] <mhaberler> it's about important bugs not getting lost in irc/list noise, not because of bureaucratic requirements
[22:32:00] <mhaberler> it IS a showstopper bug, which is why it needs recording
[22:33:31] <alex4nder> mhaberler: right, so asking other people if they see the problem, and verifying that it's not just something misconfigured in my environment, is why I'm asking people to reproduce the problem.
[22:33:54] <mhaberler> I reproduced it, micges too, you're credible ;)
[22:33:57] <alex4nder> yup
[22:34:01] <alex4nder> so now I'm logging a bug report.
[22:34:17] <mhaberler> I even file bugs which I caused
[22:34:39] <mhaberler> (sometimes, that is)
[22:35:31] <alex4nder> is everyone using the Sourceforge tracker?
[22:35:36] <mhaberler> yes
[22:36:14] <Jymmm> mhaberler: sometimes you file the report or sometimes you create the bug?
[22:36:17] <Jymmm> ;)
[22:36:21] <mhaberler> both
[22:36:34] <mhaberler> if somebode else bitched loud enough;)
[22:36:57] <mhaberler> create.. file.. in descending order, that is
[22:37:00] <micges_> you can even fix the bug ;)
[22:37:27] <mhaberler> not that one. I am clueless about Tk/Tcl esoterics and plan to remain in that state
[22:37:29] <Jymmm> "mhaberler: Yeah, jepler pissed me off today by not telling what color is blue! I'll fix him, I'll make a bug and report it, yeah, that's it!"
[22:37:47] <mhaberler> that is harsh indeed
[22:38:08] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Hey, it's YOU that I was quoting
[22:38:34] <mhaberler> with some transliteration, I assume
[22:38:46] <Jymmm> Never! lol
[22:39:25] <micges_> mhaberler: I agree about tk/tcl
[22:39:36] <mhaberler> "floggings will continue until morale improves." :-)
[22:40:11] <Jymmm> whats wrong with the tk iface?
[22:40:21] <Jymmm> mhaberler: exactly =)
[22:40:43] <mhaberler> how many deprecated layers does it take you to get confused? I eject at 1
[22:41:51] <mhaberler> jymmm: given your approval to my quote and the management style it permeates, I assume you're a Brit ;-?
[22:44:07] <mhaberler> in axis we have: python, control vanishing into tcl, vanishing into a undocumented widget 'bf'
[22:44:31] <mhaberler> I wouldnt even know how to insert debug prints
[22:44:42] <alex4nder> yah
[22:44:56] <alex4nder> a 'ball of code'
[22:45:37] <mhaberler> actually it works amazingly well, but I fail to get it
[22:50:41] <Jymmm> mhaberler: California
[22:50:54] <mhaberler> expat ?
[22:51:11] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Nope, native. Born and Raised =)
[22:51:27] <mhaberler> it all sounded very British
[22:51:28] <Jymmm> a rare breed =)
[22:52:07] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Just a smartass is all =)
[22:52:22] <mhaberler> it DOES help
[22:52:46] <Jymmm> mhaberler: But... I hear shit like that from dumbasses all the time, so more or less just paraphrasing.
[22:52:58] <Jymmm> and they REALLY do mean it too.
[22:53:15] <Jymmm> sadly enough.
[22:53:50] <mhaberler> that was straight from the british officer's playbook ca 1860 ;)
[22:53:56] <Jymmm> mhaberler: And that's when I just hand them a shiny new rope and let evolutation take over =)
[22:54:46] <mhaberler> you're lacking sensibility for necessarily divers management styles
[22:54:51] <mhaberler> diverse
[22:55:16] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Nah, THEN I would be a Brit if I had done that =)
[22:55:30] <mhaberler> see.. I was right all along
[22:55:40] <Jymmm> I allow them a choice of their own free will.
[22:55:57] <mhaberler> oh, the Ford T argument
[22:56:10] <Jymmm> as long as it's black?
[22:56:15] <mhaberler> yes
[22:56:31] <mhaberler> "lets converge on my point of view"
[22:56:38] <Jymmm> It's the whole McDonalds coffee thing.
[22:57:01] <mhaberler> California.. where?
[22:57:04] <Jymmm> and the recent Nutella one too
[22:57:14] <Jymmm> SFO
[22:57:21] <mhaberler> aja
[22:57:32] <mhaberler> I lived in the valley 84-87
[22:57:45] <Jymmm> SC Valley?
[22:57:53] <mhaberler> important academic chores
[22:58:04] <Jymmm> Stanford?
[22:58:10] <mhaberler> yes
[22:58:15] <Jymmm> Bezerkley?
[22:58:18] <Jymmm> ah
[22:58:29] <mhaberler> now, thats all LSD and BSD over there
[22:58:36] <Jymmm> American Jail Association (AJA) Homepage ???
[22:58:52] <Jymmm> And it's NOT a coincidence they both came from the same place either!
[22:59:18] <mhaberler> "east bay", what do you expect
[22:59:22] <alex4nder> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3531758&group_id=6744&atid=106744
[22:59:25] <alex4nder> reported.
[22:59:35] <Jymmm> alex4nder: now fix it!
[22:59:38] <mhaberler> thanks
[22:59:38] <alex4nder> cradek: it's by default assigned to you.
[22:59:43] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I'll take a look after dinner.
[22:59:58] <mhaberler> I think he can claim innocence on that one
[23:00:19] <Jymmm> alex4nder: you're not allowed to eat till it's fixed, hell you not allowed to take a dump till it is either!
[23:00:42] <Jymmm> mhaberler: You're in Corsico?
[23:00:50] <alex4nder> Jymmm: I also have to retram my machine,... I'm pretty sure the spindle running into the table took it out
[23:00:54] <mhaberler> no, Austria
[23:00:57] <alex4nder> so pissed off.
[23:01:00] <Jymmm> mhaberler: ah
[23:01:05] <alex4nder> I was just finishing setting it up again.
[23:01:15] <Jymmm> mhaberler: See, now alex4nder is a brit in true fashoin
[23:01:16] <alex4nder> had the crosshatches looking great.
[23:01:23] <mhaberler> 10km from Arnie's birthplace, which should convey something to you ;)
[23:01:39] <alex4nder> Jymmm: brit my ass
[23:01:40] <alex4nder> California
[23:01:41] <alex4nder> n
[23:01:43] <mhaberler> very well, sir
[23:01:47] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Got ANFO?
[23:01:55] <mhaberler> whatzat?
[23:02:04] <Jymmm> mhaberler: KaBoom
[23:02:14] <Jymmm> Well, more like Ka Booooooooooooooooooooooom!
[23:02:15] <mhaberler> a simulator helps
[23:02:40] <Jymmm> mhaberler: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANFO
[23:03:00] <Jymmm> mhaberler: used in mines, quaries, demolition
[23:03:16] <mhaberler> so I assume you done vote Republican..
[23:03:33] <Jymmm> mhaberler: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccQ9vkLrvfo
[23:03:37] <alex4nder> mhaberler: haha
[23:03:58] <alex4nder> thankfully pfred1 isn't here to hear that.
[23:04:09] <mhaberler> uh, oh
[23:04:49] <alex4nder> mhaberler: not all and explosives and gun owners in the US vote republican
[23:04:51] <alex4nder> but many do
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[23:06:49] <mhaberler> you know, when they talk about 'jerk-free' software on the list, I have my own ideas about creating a jerk-free zone, but they dont relate to trajectory planning
[23:07:10] <alex4nder> ah well
[23:08:08] <mhaberler> do you have a tentative change which fixes it?
[23:08:26] <alex4nder> not yet
[23:08:38] <mhaberler> you're my hero
[23:11:09] <mhaberler> re Berkeley: TCL, too
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[23:46:44] <Jymmm> mhaberler: didn't know that, but havent' really touched/looked at it either
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[23:54:01] <Tom_itx> what does linuxcnc use for comments in a nc file?
[23:54:08] <Tom_itx> i'm used to using ()
[23:54:15] <Jymmm> I tink that's it
[23:54:16] <Jymmm> think
[23:54:21] <Tom_itx> i got an error on a file
[23:54:26] <Tom_itx> and figured it was the comments
[23:54:34] <Jymmm> you cna't use multi-line though
[23:54:53] <Jymmm> ()\n()\n etc
[23:55:02] <mhaberler> ;this isnt executed either
[23:55:25] <Jymmm> mhaberler: really?
[23:55:27] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i put () () on separate N lines
[23:55:41] <mhaberler> yes, sir!
[23:55:42] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: well, can you remove them as a test?
[23:56:00] <Jymmm> mhaberler: cool beans, I cna't stand open/close comments for the most part
[23:56:07] <mhaberler> amen
[23:56:23] <Jymmm> multi-line /**/ I can live with
[23:56:28] <mhaberler> praise the semicolon and hand me the erase key
[23:56:46] <Jymmm> mh search and replace baby =)
[23:56:53] <Tom_itx> it didn't like the O word
[23:56:58] <Tom_itx> i removed that
[23:57:28] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Remember dos batch files? REM
[23:57:42] <mhaberler> I'm too young for that
[23:57:47] <Jymmm> mhaberler: liar
[23:58:09] <mhaberler> youth is a state of mind
[23:58:19] <ScribbleJ> load himem.sys!
[23:58:20] <Jymmm> mhaberler: Well, instead of REMark (comment), you can use :: instead
[23:58:38] <ScribbleJ> You want to know old? I actually did telephone support for DOS for Microsoft.
[23:58:47] <mhaberler> C here comes your FORTRAN COMMON!
[23:58:53] <ScribbleJ> And I cannot tell you the number of people who said "hymen" for "himem"
[23:59:08] <Jymmm> ScribbleJ: virgin dos?
[23:59:13] <ScribbleJ> Haa
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[23:59:34] <mhaberler> "can I do a bit of 'insalling'"
[23:59:38] <mhaberler> st