#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-06

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[00:07:12] <JT-Shop> Jymmm: you keeping your laser machine busy?
[00:07:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: not that the moment
[00:07:39] <Jymmm> s/that/at/
[00:08:20] <JT-Shop> I was just thinking about the dog tag thing and was wondering if that took off
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[00:09:20] <Tom_itx> someone else is milling dog tags here i think
[00:09:27] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: People aren't buying trivial things right now, and petsmart/walmart with in-store engraving vending machines take a chunk.
[00:10:16] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: If I have a retail shop, might be different.
[00:10:32] <Tom_itx> sell bongs and dogtags?
[00:10:41] <JT-Shop> I know some big business guys who thought they would buy a factory and walse up to wal mart and have them as a customer... didn't work out that way
[00:10:57] <Jymmm> heh
[00:11:14] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: even that business is slow
[00:11:24] <Tom_itx> how fat can a LiIon battery get before you should show concern?
[00:11:35] <JT-Shop> people out there just roll their own
[00:11:36] <Jymmm> zero
[00:11:44] <Tom_itx> it's like 1.5x fatter now
[00:11:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: No, they'll use soda cans
[00:11:48] <Tom_itx> is it still good?
[00:11:54] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:12:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Li-Ion or Ni-MH ?
[00:12:08] <Tom_itx> it broke the cover off the back
[00:12:28] <JT-Shop> crap Tom_itx run for you life!
[00:12:35] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: If it's Li-Ion, I'd toss it in a metal can NOW!
[00:12:44] <Tom_itx> Li Ion
[00:12:46] <Tom_itx> :)
[00:12:50] <Tom_itx> can i hit it with a hammer?
[00:12:59] <Valen> if its a foil pack some of them can get "puffy"
[00:13:16] <Tom_itx> it's more pregnant than puffy
[00:13:23] <JT-Shop> yea let me hold your beer Tom_itx
[00:13:41] <Valen> whats it in?
[00:13:47] <Jymmm> Let my hold your sherline Tom_itx
[00:13:54] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:14:17] <Tom_itx> ooo i could mill .035 off the top!
[00:14:18] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: here's a hammer, have at it! I'll be over here
[00:14:26] <JT-Shop> I had a rough day floating down the current river in a kayak today
[00:14:35] <Valen> Tom_itx: whats the battery in?
[00:14:41] <Tom_itx> nothing now
[00:14:45] <Tom_itx> was in my old ipaq
[00:14:50] <Valen> ahh
[00:14:51] <Jymmm> Valen: an explosive state
[00:14:58] <Tom_itx> still is apparently
[00:15:01] <Valen> just get another one if you want to keep using it
[00:15:03] <Tom_itx> can i toss it in the barbie?
[00:15:08] <Tom_itx> i did
[00:15:25] <Valen> they aren't *paticularly* explosive like that but capacity is greatly reduced
[00:15:36] <Jymmm> ipaq?! toss that inthe metal can too!
[00:15:40] <Valen> I'd get a turnigy one from http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/index.rc
[00:15:47] <Tom_itx> no
[00:15:50] <Tom_itx> i need it
[00:15:59] <Jymmm> no you dont
[00:16:04] <Tom_itx> little you know
[00:16:25] <Jymmm> you THINK you need it
[00:16:30] * Valen had an ipaq somewhere around the place
[00:16:33] <Tom_itx> i use it 4hrs a day generally
[00:16:46] <Valen> my latest smartphone has caught up to it now lol
[00:16:46] <Jymmm> for what?
[00:16:52] <Tom_itx> stuff
[00:16:56] <Jymmm> lol
[00:16:59] <Tom_itx> i got 3
[00:17:04] <Tom_itx> 2 are identical
[00:17:05] <Valen> looking at porn whilst mobile
[00:17:29] <Tom_itx> i'd get an ipad for that
[00:17:40] <Valen> check out the samsung galaxy note Tom_itx, unless you have magical windows CE software they are pretty similar
[00:17:43] <Valen> no IRDA though
[00:18:55] * JT-Shop wanders inside for some chow
[00:18:59] <JT-Shop> see you guys later
[00:19:12] <Jymmm> Purina JT Chow
[00:23:08] <Tom_itx> i got magical CE software
[00:23:49] <Valen> some kind of parts managment thing innit?
[00:23:55] <Tom_itx> don't care to spend 1k to get it ported to a newer device
[00:30:04] <Valen> might need to do something like this
[00:30:05] <Valen> http://thereifixedit.failblog.org/2012/07/05/white-trash-repairs-playing-fifth-wheel/
[00:30:08] <Valen> lazy++
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[01:01:00] <r00t4rd3d> anyone ever cut some 16mm supported rails?
[01:02:10] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think a sawzall and a metal blade is gonna do ti
[01:02:11] <r00t4rd3d> it
[01:02:23] <jdh> might, slowly.
[01:02:26] <jdh> could grind first
[01:02:28] <r00t4rd3d> the support, yeah the rail no.
[01:02:37] <jdh> grind the rail first
[01:02:51] <r00t4rd3d> with my skateboard?
[01:03:24] <jdh> with your $10 harborfreight 4" grinder
[01:03:28] <r00t4rd3d> lol
[01:03:44] <r00t4rd3d> i would chew it in half before i bought anything from hf
[01:03:58] <jdh> why?
[01:04:02] <r00t4rd3d> junk
[01:04:06] <jdh> what's wrong with a $10 disposable tool?
[01:04:21] <r00t4rd3d> waste of 10 bucks
[01:04:26] <r00t4rd3d> spend 50 and buy a real one
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[01:08:23] <r00t4rd3d> i need a power bandsaw
[01:08:38] <r00t4rd3d> metal bandsaw
[01:08:41] * jdh doesn't mention his HF bandsaw
[01:08:44] <r00t4rd3d> power hacksaw
[01:09:05] <r00t4rd3d> i have a regular wood craftsman bandsaw
[01:09:42] <jdh> I have a regular HF 4x6 bandsaw
[01:09:46] <r00t4rd3d> ive read you should not put hacksaw bandsaw blades in them though
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[01:10:07] <jdh> cuts great on aluminum, reasonably well on steel. Haven't tried stainless
[01:10:34] <r00t4rd3d> you have a metal blade in it?
[01:10:42] <r00t4rd3d> or upside down wood?
[01:10:50] <jdh> metal
[01:10:55] <jdh> it is a metal cutting bandsaw
[01:11:00] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[01:11:11] <r00t4rd3d> how much was that?
[01:11:20] <r00t4rd3d> 39.95?
[01:11:23] <r00t4rd3d> :)
[01:11:45] <jdh> http://www.harborfreight.com/horizontal-vertical-metal-cutting-bandsaw-93762.html
[01:11:48] <r00t4rd3d> its probably going to cost me 40 to have a machine shop cut them for me
[01:11:57] <r00t4rd3d> maybe 30
[01:12:02] <jdh> stand sucks. Good blade is $20
[01:12:19] <jdh> $179 coupon for the saw.
[01:12:30] <jdh> clamp the stock in the vise and walk away
[01:13:04] <r00t4rd3d> gimme a coupon
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[01:14:30] <jdh> heh, this one expired 06/01/2012
[01:15:07] <jdh> home shop machinist, machinests workshop, maybe NRA mag has them
[01:16:47] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/PORTABLE-POWER-HAND-HELD-METAL-STEEL-CUTTING-ELECTRIC-BANDSAW-HACK-TOOL-BAND-SAW-/290672084365?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43ad68058d
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[01:18:20] <r00t4rd3d> oh shit
[01:18:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRI-STAR-METAL-CUTTING-BAND-SAW-mbs-45-3-4-HP-WORKS-/290722413538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b067fbe2
[01:28:12] <jdh> those both look identical to the HF ones, just a little more expensive
[01:28:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://n0m1.com/2012/04/23/on-the-cheap-supported-linear-rail/
[01:28:46] <jdh> http://www.harborfreight.com/portable-variable-speed-bandsaw-47840.html
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[01:31:07] <r00t4rd3d> you see that guy cutting a 4x4 with the HF metal saw ?
[01:31:18] <jdh> nope
[01:31:22] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_11408.jpg
[01:31:32] <r00t4rd3d> its in their ad
[01:31:43] <jdh> heh, that's lame
[01:31:48] <jdh> perhaps he is just notching it
[01:32:02] <A2Sheds> heh, everyone knows it's best to use a chainsaw
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[01:33:35] <jdh> I saw a mag article on making a table for one of those protable things. Looked like a lot of work for a $80 saw.
[01:33:52] <A2Sheds> seriously though, does Harbor Freight still have those 20-30% off any item coupons?
[01:34:17] <Jymmm> Just had 25% off on Kuly 4th only
[01:34:18] <jdh> 20% is normal
[01:34:48] <A2Sheds> wanted to get another sandblaster
[01:35:30] <A2Sheds> oh, it's already $90 off
[01:36:00] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: doens't matter
[01:36:20] <Jymmm> A2Sheds: 167.992
[01:37:23] <A2Sheds> Jymmm, whats the 167.992?
[01:37:44] <Jymmm> http://www.harborfreight.com/40-lb-capacity-floor-blast-cabinet-93608.html less 20%
[01:39:50] <jdh> I'd like to have one of thsoe for a few hours, but not bad enough to buy one, or buy a huge ass compressor for it.
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[01:44:36] <A2Sheds> has anyone found a brand of Chinese machine tools that are made as well as say Fanuc?
[01:45:18] <Tom_itx> fanuc makes controls not machines
[01:45:24] <Tom_itx> but i doubt it
[01:45:27] <Tom_itx> jet is ok
[01:45:49] <Tom_itx> we had a manual jet (bridgeport) at the shop
[01:46:06] <A2Sheds> was thinking the old fanuc cnc
[01:47:21] <A2Sheds> heading there to do so shopping soon
[01:48:50] <A2Sheds> it should be interesting to see what they have in the showrooms
[01:50:38] <Valen> bandsaw wont go through hardened steel
[01:50:49] <Valen> not without a carbide blade
[01:50:53] <jdh> grind it
[01:50:59] <Tom_itx> yeah a good one will
[01:51:13] <Tom_itx> it may take a while
[01:51:13] <Valen> its tool steel Vs hardened steel
[01:51:28] <Valen> you might cut it, but you won't have any teeth left when its done
[01:51:49] <Valen> bah nvm r00t4rd3d left anyway
[01:51:59] * Valen was catching up
[01:52:01] <Tom_itx> heh
[01:52:20] <Valen> I want to get carbide or at least bimetal blades for our little bandsaw
[01:52:30] <Tom_itx> we ran Ti thru ours
[01:52:32] <Valen> too hard to find in our size
[01:52:36] <Valen> Ti isn't all that
[01:52:44] <Valen> its soft, though it can work harden
[01:52:45] <Tom_itx> tied a weight on the end of it and let it go
[01:52:49] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:52:58] <Tom_itx> these were good size parts
[01:53:19] <Valen> I say Ti is like mixing Al and steel
[01:53:26] <Valen> its not some wonder material
[01:53:50] <Tom_itx> a bit tricky to cut
[01:54:09] <Valen> eh just don't be a pussy about it ;->
[01:54:09] <Tom_itx> once you figure it out it's easy
[01:54:38] <Valen> oh also be carefull of the swarf
[01:54:44] <Valen> it'll burn good if it gets going
[01:55:09] <Valen> firefighting procedure is to stop stuff around it from catching fire due to radiant heat and watch the sucker burn
[01:55:22] <Valen> (through a welding helmet)
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[02:23:48] <A2Sheds> http://maxxtools.en.made-in-china.com/product/AqZxXtivLOVM/China-CNC-Milling-Machine-XK7132SD.html wow only $1K for a CNC MILLING MACHINE (must be a typo)
[02:25:35] <Thetawaves> is that door made out of rice paper?
[02:25:37] * Thetawaves lol
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[03:15:53] <tjb1> Just adding once again that putting down hardibacker sucks
[03:15:57] <tjb1> Over 700 screws...
[03:16:32] <Valen> get a screwgun
[03:17:20] <tjb1> We have one but it uses special screws
[03:17:34] <Tom_itx> Valen, what was the material you used on your spindle head?
[03:17:34] <Valen> :-<
[03:17:37] <Tom_itx> for the casting
[03:17:42] <Valen> one we made up
[03:17:45] <Tom_itx> yeah
[03:17:53] <Valen> its a vynil ester resin and basalt
[03:18:08] <Tom_itx> work pretty good?
[03:18:12] <tjb1> Valen: http://cf.mp-cdn.net/ac/a9/38a6cafa6f3574a2638846b286cf.jpg
[03:18:24] <Valen> seems to
[03:18:38] <Valen> we are hoping to make a whole 5 axis mill out of the stuff lol
[03:19:02] <Valen> they look like bog standard wood screws to me tjb1
[03:19:19] <tjb1> They are coated so they dont rust and Lowes doesnt sell them for the Senco gun
[03:21:03] <tjb1> We stripped the head on about 70 of the cheap bastards
[03:21:50] <Valen> bah get stainless ones, pref posidrive
[03:21:52] <Valen> made of win
[03:23:32] <tjb1> Were done :)
[03:23:36] <tjb1> I never want to do that again
[03:24:13] <Valen> heh I am going to be putting a new roof on soon, so its on my mind too
[03:24:39] <Tom_itx> i used those on concrete backer board
[03:25:27] <tjb1> Cheap ass things were stripped before they hit the backerboard :P
[03:25:35] <tjb1> Went through about 4 batteries today too
[03:26:02] <tjb1> About burnt up a 1/2 dewalt corded drill mixing the thinset
[03:26:44] <tjb1> Im sure tiling is going to be just great.
[03:27:51] <tjb1> We also put on a metal roof and new septic tank this summer...
[03:28:22] <tjb1> http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/283780_3896877376377_1471661350_n.jpg
[03:29:09] <A2Sheds> Valen: how did the vinyl ester resin work out? what % of basalt did you use and what avg dia?
[03:29:39] <Valen> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general_metal_working_machines/118358-phenolic_basalt_head_our_hm45.html
[03:30:47] <A2Sheds> ah ok, I remember that one
[03:33:39] <tjb1> Anyone know if you can tape the backerboard while tiling using the tile cement?
[03:35:32] <Tom_itx> if you're tiling over it why tape it?
[03:35:39] <tjb1> You have to tape the seams
[03:36:34] <tjb1> Probably the same reason you tape drywall seams
[03:52:59] <A2Sheds> it would be an interesting experiment to see what mixture holds up best, polyester, vinyl ester vs urethane's with various aggregates
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[03:56:10] <A2Sheds> http://www.aspe.net/publications/Annual_2008/POSTERS/04DMACH/2641.PDF
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[04:02:36] <A2Sheds> http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1516-14392010000400012&script=sci_arttext Behavior of granite-epoxy composite beams subjected to mechanical vibrations
[04:03:09] <A2Sheds> "The obtained results showed that composite samples, with weight fractions of about 80% of granite and 20% of epoxy, presented damping properties approximately three times greater than gray cast iron."
[04:07:47] <A2Sheds> Technical Characteristics of Diamond Reinforced Epoxy Composites http://www.materia.coppe.ufrj.br/sarra/artigos/artigo10692/
[04:07:59] <A2Sheds> when price is o concern
[04:08:07] <nlkdavid> Is it ok to cut-n-paste an error log I'm getting when starting LinuxCNC?
[04:08:22] <A2Sheds> pastebin.ca
[04:08:33] <A2Sheds> then post the link
[04:12:04] <nlkdavid> http://pastebin.ca/2167522
[04:14:25] <toastydeath> actual machine tools from china aren't that bad
[04:14:54] <toastydeath> china has a lot of internal machine manufacturers that supply the export manufacturing base
[04:15:16] <A2Sheds> toastydeath, any particular brands you've tried besides Jet, Enco, Grissly etc
[04:16:25] <toastydeath> my old shop had several import lathes that were quite solidly built, but they were the price you'd expect for a turning center, not a 10x20 tabletop lathe
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[04:19:16] <A2Sheds> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-t22K-SyCWH4/T74634GapoI/AAAAAAAAB3Q/0CvJrUnUl88/s1600/DSCF7198.JPG
[04:19:34] <A2Sheds> starting to find some decent positioners made in China
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[04:23:25] <r00t4rd3d> how do i combine gcodes?
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[04:24:15] <r00t4rd3d> grr
[04:24:23] <r00t4rd3d> how do i combine gcodes?
[04:26:42] <Valen> combine?
[04:29:15] <nlkdavid> I'm running the Vesa video drivers. Yesterday I tryed letting it install the Nvidia drivers labeled 'recommended', but then it wouldn't boot past the mouse pointer appearing, so I had to use safe graphics failsafe. This is my 1st attempt to start linuxcnc on this computer, I setup stepconf to my Fireball V90 & verified my parallel port address. When I run LinuCNC, after selecting a machine (whether my V90 or the samle ste
[04:30:29] <Valen> nlkdavid you got trimmed at "V90 or the samle ste"
[04:31:30] <r00t4rd3d> valen yeah, I have 3 different things i made and i want to combine them
[04:31:35] <r00t4rd3d> a pic and some text
[04:32:23] <Valen> you could just put them one after the other
[04:32:32] <nlkdavid> or the samle stepper_inch) I get an error "LinuxCNC teminated with an error". the attached log is at http://pastebin.ca/2167522
[04:32:32] <r00t4rd3d> i have to do alot of them, 100
[04:32:35] <Valen> perhaps with some offset settings
[04:33:04] <Valen> nlkdavid: your having issues with video card
[04:33:06] <r00t4rd3d> it would be 300 changes
[04:33:23] <Valen> i meant you can combine the gcode into one file
[04:33:31] <Valen> its just text
[04:33:32] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[04:33:45] <Valen> seriously learn the basics of gcode
[04:33:52] <Valen> you will understand whats going on then
[04:34:04] <r00t4rd3d> im sure i will over time
[04:34:04] <Valen> nlkdavid: what is the machine your running on?
[04:34:21] <Valen> its kinda like saying you will learn driving "over time"
[04:34:54] <nlkdavid> hang on, i'll get the specs
[04:35:08] <Valen> the computer right not the mill ;->
[04:35:12] <r00t4rd3d> no one jumps in a car and is an expert
[04:35:33] <Valen> yeah but its a good idea to read the road rules before you try driving
[04:36:14] <Valen> i'll take all of 20 minutes to know what the G1 G2 G0 and some of the initilisation stuff is
[04:36:29] <Valen> for what your doing you want to look at whatsitcalled cordinate spaces
[04:36:34] <Valen> offests or something
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[04:36:55] <Valen> yeah G54 through G59 i think
[04:37:45] <Valen> that or a G92
[04:38:01] <Valen> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?CoordinateSystems
[04:38:28] <r00t4rd3d> ok ill check it out, thanks
[04:39:20] <Valen> that one is kinda confusing
[04:39:31] <r00t4rd3d> i think inkscape will do what i want
[04:39:48] <r00t4rd3d> if i save all my stuff to stl or whatever
[04:41:38] <nlkdavid> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135010 that motherboard, an AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+ Brisbane 2.1GHz, 1GB ram
[04:41:58] <r00t4rd3d> intel atom 525d
[04:42:23] <Valen> phone one sec
[04:43:00] <r00t4rd3d> err Intel Atom D525
[04:43:04] <nlkdavid> it's a machine I built 5yrs ago
[04:44:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-BOXD525MW-Intel-Atom-D525-1-8GHz-Dual-Core-BGA559-Intel-NM10-Mini-/300733365828?pt=Motherboards&hash=item46051afe44
[04:44:36] <r00t4rd3d> thats what alot of people use around here
[04:45:58] <Valen> have you run latency test on it nlkdavid?
[04:46:50] <nlkdavid> yes, stays under 10000ns of jitter
[04:47:10] <Valen> ok then
[04:48:11] <Valen> just need to work out what driver you want i think you probably need a legacy driver
[04:49:39] <Valen> hmm
[04:50:38] <Valen> no looks like current is correct
[04:52:46] <Valen> to get axis running your probably going to want the nvidia driver working nlkdavid
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[04:54:17] <nlkdavid> the Hardware Drivers screen give me the choice of "NVIDIA accelerated graphics driver" versions 173, 96, current (recommended). It couldn't boot with current
[04:55:22] <Valen> need to work out why that was
[04:55:36] <Valen> alternatly give say 173 a try
[04:56:10] <nlkdavid> ok, doing it now
[05:00:26] <nlkdavid> the mouse pointer has appeared, but no desktop
[05:00:52] <Valen> press ctrl + alt + F1
[05:01:03] <Valen> should get a terminal
[05:01:19] <Valen> login then take a look through /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[05:01:50] <Valen> nano /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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[05:11:26] <nlkdavid> crtl + alt + F1 made the screen go blank
[05:12:23] <Valen> try ctrl alt f2
[05:12:45] <Valen> sometimes stuff pinches tty1
[05:17:02] <nlkdavid> ctrl alt f2 did nothing
[05:18:33] <Valen> hmm you have some bigger issues
[05:18:48] <Valen> though i seem to recall some problem with ttys under 10.04
[05:19:09] <Valen> i suggest perhaps hitting up #ubuntu or the ubuntu forums for some help with this one
[05:19:18] <Valen> i'm a bit busy at the moment
[05:20:13] <nlkdavid> is there a way to activate a telnet server for terminal screens?
[05:20:43] <Valen> if you have installed opensshd you can login over the network
[05:21:37] <nlkdavid> ok thx
[05:21:48] <Valen> though you need to login to do that lol
[05:21:58] <Valen> then use putty to connect to it
[05:25:03] <nlkdavid> I'm new to linux, but an expert in windows & a fast learner, thx for your help, i'll twiddle with it somemore
[05:26:31] <nlkdavid> can opensshd be connect to from windows?
[05:26:41] <Valen> then use putty to connect to it
[05:26:50] <Valen> sshd is the "telnet server" if you will
[05:26:54] <Valen> putty is the client
[05:27:07] <nlkdavid> ah ok
[05:27:11] <Valen> its a secure protocol unlike telnet
[05:27:17] <Valen> and you can do pretty much anything over it
[05:30:25] <nlkdavid> cool thx. I'm disabled/on a vent & i'm in bed at the moment and accessing the linuxcnc computer (which is in next room) through VNC & watching the screen through a webcam & giving verbal commands to a family member when vnc isn't running. that'll be very helpful
[05:31:58] <Valen> vnc means you don't need a webcam
[05:32:06] <Valen> though you can use that to look at the work perhaps
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[05:33:50] <nlkdavid> the webcam is for times like this when the os hasn't booted
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[06:53:55] <DJ9DJ> moin
[06:56:15] <Jymmm> I hope "Ted" lives up to the hype
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[07:03:24] <Loetmichel> mornin
[07:05:37] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: YOu say morning every morning, be original, say something to WOW the day by!
[07:07:28] <DJ9DJ> :D
[07:07:44] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: you too damnit!
[07:07:55] <DJ9DJ> hehe
[07:08:51] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: i am german... let me have my mornin rituals ;-)
[07:09:01] <Loetmichel> +g
[07:09:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: OH HELL NO!
[07:10:05] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The only ritual you are permitted are #1 and #2
[07:13:07] <Loetmichel> ?
[07:13:24] <Jymmm> pee and poo
[07:13:48] <DJ9DJ> lo
[07:13:48] <DJ9DJ> l
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[07:15:49] <Loetmichel> hrhr
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[07:20:20] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: #1 and #2 will be done after my first coffe kicks in ;-)
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[07:22:52] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: TMI
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[08:05:08] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: your own fault ;-)
[08:05:18] <Jymmm> nuh uh
[08:05:32] <Loetmichel> you asked for it ;-)
[08:05:53] <Jymmm> nope
[08:07:11] <Loetmichel> oh yes you did.
[08:07:22] <Loetmichel> trolling sometimes backfires, you know?
[08:07:23] <Loetmichel> :-)
[08:07:29] <Jymmm> lol
[08:08:54] <DJ9DJ> hihi
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[08:38:08] <Jymmm> 220VAC 22mm LED Panel Lamp http://www.dealextreme.com/p/ad16-22d-s-22mm-led-signal-indicator-light-lamp-green-black-123939 They have other colors too
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[13:23:31] <jdh> frigidaire, LG, GE for a window unit?
[13:27:20] <jdh> Z: what do you use them for?
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[13:44:46] <JT-Shop> I like my LG's
[13:45:31] <archivist> I use glass for a window unit
[13:46:00] * archivist giggles at american "english"
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[13:59:17] <jdh> there are no .uk terms that are truncated for brevity?
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[14:18:29] <archivist> I think all those makers also make kettles
[14:21:05] <jdh> exactly.
[14:22:43] <archivist> so you are looking for a window defroster ?
[14:26:44] <jdh> It could serve that purpose, though it would be highly sub-optimal.
[14:30:57] <Jymmm> archivist: more like a window FROSTER =)
[14:31:23] <archivist> we use external weather for frosting
[14:32:04] <Jymmm> but you don't actually see the Sun the but like maybe one or twice every 10 years or so
[14:33:45] <archivist> we had summer yesterday, today is a months rain in a day
[14:33:59] <Jymmm> jdh: do you have 220 in your garage?
[14:34:04] <jdh> http://www.surfchex.com/
[14:34:07] <Jymmm> archivist: oh geeze =(
[14:34:08] <jdh> ^^ current weather here.
[14:34:47] <archivist> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18722054
[14:35:03] <Jymmm> jdh: This is the equiv of what JT-Shop and I have... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896140502
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[14:36:17] <jdh> I don't think that will fit in my window.
[14:36:39] <jdh> the 12k one should (and costs half as much)
[14:38:52] <jdh> a guy I dive with took this pic of the house across from his: http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/482132_4231095583785_1284747759_n.jpg
[14:39:17] <Jymmm> $319 at Home Depot
[14:39:53] <jdh> for the big one?
[14:39:58] <Jymmm> 12000
[14:40:07] <jdh> $299 at sams, not quite half price, but close.
[14:41:04] <jdh> home depot is much less hassle though.
[14:41:21] <jdh> I have 240, but I'd have to run new wiring.
[14:42:50] <Jymmm> $269 10,000 NFC.... http://www.lowes.com/pd_47129-2251-LRA107BU1_4294749561__?productId=3341618&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FgoToProdList%3Dtrue%26Ns%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&facetInfo=
[14:43:29] <jdh> yeah... 12k is probably marginal anyway and it will fit.
[14:44:07] <Jymmm> do clean the filter often too
[14:44:38] <jdh> the LG is a few inches wider and 15lbs heavier than the equiv. GE
[14:45:27] <Jymmm> Heh, I wouldn't buy GE anything today.
[14:45:53] <Jymmm> Not as a brand that is.
[14:46:07] <jdh> how about a GE turbine?
[14:46:16] <jdh> or locomotive? Or aircraft engine?
[14:46:49] <Jymmm> Maybe GE engine or medical
[14:47:14] <cradek> you won't regret running 220 and getting a bigger unit
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[14:48:30] <jdh> I have terrible power. I'd have to switch some breakers out for half-size to fit another 220 circuit. The inside panel is pretty loaded as-is
[14:48:31] <JT-Shop> jdh, I have a 12k LG cooling my 1000 sq ft shop
[14:48:41] <JT-Shop> on 120v
[14:48:42] <jdh> JT: insulated?
[14:48:47] <JT-Shop> very
[14:48:49] <cradek> mine's full of half sizers :-)
[14:49:11] <jdh> mine is only about 25% half size.
[14:49:23] <Jymmm> is that like skinny jeans?
[14:49:31] <cradek> not really
[14:49:32] <JT-Shop> 6" walls and 3 1/2" + 12" in the attic
[14:49:40] <jdh> when the dryer is on, my scuba compressor is running, and the hot water heater kicks in, it sometimes trips.
[14:49:51] <cradek> the main??
[14:50:03] <JT-Shop> don't take a bath with your scuba gear on
[14:50:10] <jdh> the outside breaker that feeds the inside panel.
[14:50:16] <cradek> ouch
[14:50:28] <cradek> do you have natural gas?
[14:50:45] <jdh> nope
[14:50:48] <cradek> ouch
[14:50:53] <jdh> not much gas here. Not useful for heating
[14:50:53] <Jymmm> jdh: instant hot water heater?
[14:51:20] <Jymmm> jdh: Where's here?
[14:51:40] <jdh> wilmington.nc.us.earth
[14:52:07] <Jymmm> you forgot .MilkyWay biotch =)
[14:52:22] <archivist> .Universe
[14:52:23] <JT-Shop> jdh, I have the 15k LG in the 1000 sq ft garage due to less insulation in the attic only 3.5"
[14:52:57] <JT-Shop> good garage door seals made more difference than insulation in my garage
[14:53:38] <Jymmm> I've always found electric heating MUCH higher (and less efficient) than gas heating.
[14:53:41] <jdh> my seals keep out most water except when hurricanes come from the southwest
[14:54:01] <jdh> electric is much less efficient. It was 75F here on new years day.
[14:55:49] <Jymmm> I had an all-electric apartment once and someone crashed into the the sub-station. No electricity for 3 days, luckily we had a gas water heater and heating.
[14:56:17] <JT-Shop> when I had leaky door seals I could not cool the garage more than a few degrees with a 15k btu AC
[14:56:40] <jdh> I'll check those when I measure the window.
[14:57:32] <pcw_home> we have the pacific ocean for AC (currently 56 degrees here)
[14:57:45] <jdh> brrrr.
[14:57:57] <jdh> beach water temp is 81F here.
[14:58:39] <pcw_home> its almost alway cold here in July
[14:58:50] <pcw_home> always
[14:58:52] <Jymmm> FWIW... I have a 2000W Generator and cna only use a 1500W Heater with it that barely heats anything more than 5ft away from it. But that MrHeater and a 20# propane tank heats the whole living room and then some in 5minutes
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[15:00:08] <Jymmm> tjb1: What random comment are you going to enlighten us with today?
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[15:01:20] <Jymmm> jdh: tankless water heater?
[15:02:55] <jdh> not worthwhile
[15:03:15] <tjb1> Jymmm: None.
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[15:03:59] <Jymmm> jdh: Do you even have gas piped in from the street?
[15:04:17] <jdh> there is no gas in the street
[15:04:59] <Jymmm> Really?
[15:05:08] <Jymmm> all propane tanks in the area?
[15:05:18] <jdh> if anyone has gas, yes.
[15:05:34] <jdh> very few propane tanks for residential
[15:06:57] <Jymmm> How often do you have power outages and for how long?
[15:07:32] <jdh> last one was 4 or 5 years ago for half a day maybe. Small hurricane.
[15:07:57] <Jymmm> That's not too bad
[15:08:04] <jdh> big storms could have power outage for a few days but gas wouldn't be very useful
[15:08:20] <Jymmm> why's that?
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[15:08:34] <jdh> what do you do with gas when it is 95F?
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[15:08:55] <Jymmm> fire up the generator?
[15:09:04] <jdh> mine runs on gasoline.
[15:09:10] <jdh> assuming it still runs.
[15:09:23] <Jymmm> I meant the natural gas generator =)
[15:09:42] <jdh> different world.
[15:09:49] <Jymmm> why wouldn't it run?
[15:10:01] <jdh> haven't started it in 6 or 7 years.
[15:10:22] <Jymmm> Well, that's operator error =)
[15:10:45] <jdh> I used to have it to keep the freezer/fridge running post-hurricane.
[15:14:09] <Jymmm> Of course on the hottest day of the year back when the enron crap happened and we had manditory 6+ hour blackouts and the gf was sick as could be. she had to sit on th stairwell to get any kind of breeze and we lost all our fish in the salt reef tank. After that shit, I got the generator
[15:16:47] <Jymmm> We have an landlord that is MIA... The wall heater went out, it wasn't THAT cold (though could have been), I was able to fix it the next day, I got the MrBuddy heater and a few 20# propane tanks.
[15:17:41] <Jymmm> I think indoor heating in an emergency is the most difficult thing to do.
[15:17:55] <archivist> add clothes!
[15:18:33] <Jymmm> while sleeping not very comfortable
[15:19:06] <archivist> add bedding...warm as toast
[15:19:37] <jdh> and no added CO
[15:19:38] <Jymmm> We have animals too.
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[15:20:21] <Jymmm> jdh: The MrBuddy is "Indoor Safe" unvented, but you crack a window and we have CO alarms
[15:21:20] <Jymmm> I want to add the Tri-Fuel kit to me generator now that I have propane tanks.
[15:21:26] <Jymmm> s/me/my/
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[15:40:22] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[15:49:41] <Loetmichel> *grrr* end of work day... cleaned up my place... and gripped the soldering iron on the wrong end...
[15:50:03] * Loetmichel cools his thumb base, blister growing already :-(
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[15:54:24] <JT-Shop> ice it down
[16:08:45] <Loetmichel> already cooling it with ice water
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[16:22:32] <Connor> Loetmichel: Mustard
[16:24:43] <archivist> co2 fire extinguisher
[16:25:13] <Loetmichel> archivist: i want to keep my hand, not to freeze it off up to the elbow
[16:26:10] <Connor> http://mustardmuseum.com/burn-relief/
[16:26:27] <Connor> http://www.peoplespharmacy.com/2011/01/10/cold-yellow-mustard-relieves-burn/
[16:26:49] <Connor> Loetmichel: Seriously.. Give it a try..
[16:29:04] <andypugh> Does it have to be American polyester mustard, or does stuff made from actual plants work too?
[16:29:26] <Connor> Huh?
[16:32:17] <andypugh> My impression is that there is very little mustard at all in that yellaw sauce that is put on burgers and hotdogs
[16:33:51] <andypugh> (And a quick google suggests that it is largely turmeric and paprika
[16:35:55] <Tom_itx> Jymmm i cool my garage with linuxcnc
[16:36:13] <Tom_itx> how cool is that?
[16:37:02] <andypugh> Actually, I may be being unfair: http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/Frenchs-Classic-Yellow-Mustard-Recipe.html
[16:37:14] <andypugh> So I wonder why it tastes so bland?
[16:37:26] <Tom_itx> is vinegar added?
[16:39:50] <Tom_itx> i don't care for mustard anyway
[16:40:08] <andypugh> Aha! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_(condiment)
[16:40:14] <Loetmichel> andypugh: a brit complaining about food taste... i cant believe it ;-)
[16:40:18] <andypugh> It is boiling it that makes it bland.
[16:42:17] <andypugh> What I think of as mustard is what the Wiki page terms "Nowich mustard (very hot)"
[16:42:56] <Tom_itx> i do like homemade horseradish
[16:48:17] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what series belt/pulley did you use on your plasma cutter drive?
[16:52:59] <Jymmm> has anyone used rechargeable alkaline batteries before?
[16:54:32] <Jymmm> OH FUCK ME.... Hitachi (HGST).... A Western Digital Company
[16:54:52] <DJ9DJ> yo
[16:55:09] <DJ9DJ> there are only three hard disk companies left afaik
[16:55:23] <DJ9DJ> samsung is now seagate
[16:55:31] <Jymmm> is it?!
[16:55:41] <Jymmm> well samsung hdd werent very good
[16:55:53] <DJ9DJ> yeah, all my hard drives are from samsung
[16:56:22] <Jymmm> I've been loving my hitachi drives, but now WD *sigh*
[16:56:24] <DJ9DJ> but if you ask x different people, you will get x different opinios ;)
[16:56:30] <DJ9DJ> *opinions
[16:56:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm:_ au contraire!
[16:56:42] <Jymmm> Well, it does go in 8year cycles.
[16:56:50] <Loetmichel> the samsung spinpoint i have here are the best hdd i ever had
[16:56:51] <Jymmm> but still
[16:57:01] <DJ9DJ> Loetmichel knows whats good :)
[16:57:02] <Loetmichel> not one dead/loud/hot
[16:57:29] <DJ9DJ> not one samsung died here. but nearly all others, from WD over seagate, hitachi...
[16:57:38] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Samsung was the fastest dying hdd I've ever had, including it's rma replacement.
[16:58:05] <Jymmm> seagate #2
[16:58:14] <Jymmm> wd #3
[16:58:23] <DJ9DJ> i would put WD at pos 1 ;)
[16:58:44] <Jymmm> wel I haven't gotten a WD in a while
[16:58:53] <Loetmichel> the last one i had dying on me was a de(sk|ath)star...
[16:59:02] <DJ9DJ> ah, ibm :D
[16:59:15] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=613
[16:59:22] <DJ9DJ> what company belongs IBM hard disk to now?
[16:59:23] <Tom_itx> who's got WD now?
[16:59:30] <Jymmm> hitach bought ibm, wd bought hitachi it seems
[16:59:39] <Jymmm> 3TB for $170
[16:59:45] <DJ9DJ> ah
[16:59:47] <Tom_itx> too much
[16:59:56] <Tom_itx> wait a year and it'll be on the clearance rack
[17:00:06] <Jymmm> heh
[17:00:47] <Jymmm> That's ok, I cna pickup 3TB for $50
[17:04:28] <Tom_itx> ok it seems the 'factory' battery even though it's probably been in the package a couple years works better than the ones i've gotten from china
[17:04:53] <Jymmm> they always do
[17:05:08] <Tom_itx> they must require tighter specs than aftermarket
[17:05:25] <Jymmm> nah, just cheap ass batteries from china
[17:05:45] <andypugh> Possibly the ones that were rejected by OEM QA
[17:05:48] <Tom_itx> i got a double pack once that held a charge less than the single ones
[17:06:00] <Jymmm> I pay $1.5 for my cellphone battery at it lasts a year or so
[17:06:06] <Tom_itx> i did too
[17:06:09] <Tom_itx> from dx
[17:06:10] <Jymmm> then I buy another =)
[17:06:47] <Tom_itx> this one came from one of amazon's many 'trusted' vendors
[17:06:54] <Jymmm> lol
[17:07:43] <Jymmm> I guess I should get this only becasue it's a USB charger for $4 http://www.frys.com/product/6650084
[17:08:00] <Jymmm> and comes with two batteries
[17:10:23] <Tom_itx> and it's the 'greenest' of all
[17:10:33] <joe9> an old PIII - 600 MHz has a better latency than a new G620 machine.
[17:10:38] <Jymmm> ha!
[17:10:54] <Jymmm> joe9: no surpise there
[17:10:55] <joe9> that is an interesting statistic to me.
[17:11:00] <joe9> Jymmm: oh, really.
[17:11:06] <joe9> good to know, thanks.
[17:11:32] <Jymmm> joe9: The key is to get the fastest P3 you can =)
[17:12:29] <joe9> oh, ok. good to know. thanks. the max jitter on the 1ms thread is 18120 and on the Base thread (25.0us) is 16621.
[17:12:33] <Jymmm> joe9: but honestly, unless you are on a REALLY TIGHT budget, dont bother. You can get a nice atom board with sata cheap enough
[17:12:37] <joe9> those figures seem reasonable, correct?
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[17:13:56] <Jymmm> joe9: a few ppl here have these... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121442
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[17:15:37] <Jymmm> joe9: Runs DIRECTLY on 8-19VDC (no PC power supply needed) and it's only 3/4" tall =) http://www.mini-box.com/Intel-DN2800MT-Mini-ITX-Motherboard
[17:17:48] <Jymmm> I *think* that last one has paraport (header), but not sure.
[17:18:33] <Jymmm> Yep, it does... http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/motherboards/desktop-motherboards/desktop-board-dn2800mt.html
[17:24:12] <ReadError> i get sub 5k on that board
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[17:29:58] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:30:36] <IchGuckLive> i need some help on CAM a Face on a Cilinder that is turning around it
[17:32:23] <IchGuckLive> http://foengarage.de/wendel.jpg Picture of the part in my Cam ProENc
[17:34:00] <IchGuckLive> Special is that the "Mill" does not provide a Y axis In fact its the Z in this case a A Rotary is mounted
[17:34:31] <IchGuckLive> someone can check if this is working on his CAM
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[17:35:31] <archivist> I would hand code that
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[17:37:36] <IchGuckLive> archivist: on the edges yes but not in the middle
[17:37:46] <IchGuckLive> as i need a 2mm width
[17:39:03] <archivist> I just see a twisted shape, which is just a helical form
[17:41:23] <IchGuckLive> yes its 180deg on the length
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[17:45:29] <archivist> we dont know where your 2mm dimension is, what the convex radius is
[17:48:07] <archivist> I can think of more than one way of making it, in all cases I would be hand coding but letting the gcode calculate dimensions/angles as needed as needed
[17:48:59] <IchGuckLive> radius of cutter is 10mm Ball 20D can provide a IGES
[17:49:03] <archivist> I start and finish outside the stock to get a good finish so need to over rotate the right amount
[17:50:59] <IchGuckLive> i will see how this comes out
[17:51:34] <IchGuckLive> soomeone Knowes a Freecam for linux that can provide 4 Axis
[17:53:15] <archivist> see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAtziCsUj5Q that only needs a different cutter and setting to 6 teeth
[17:54:09] <archivist> I have a set of constants in the gcode to adjust depending on job type
[17:55:32] <archivist> see threading video for another possible method
[17:56:09] <archivist> but cutter would need to be extended a lot
[17:56:15] <IchGuckLive> i know that all it is only one cut path on this the Teeth are not cutted in Width
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[17:58:52] <archivist> trouble with a ball mill is the lack of cut in the middle, may leave a line/mark
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[18:02:44] <archivist> that helical dates back to 2008 before I had a b axis and hand set the helix angle http://www.archivist.info/cnc/standard_helical_n_teeth.ngc
[18:04:57] <archivist> come in on part axis and no B or tilting needed but you do need to change the move length
[18:15:11] <IchGuckLive> i will try it
[18:15:40] <IchGuckLive> by for now Thabnks
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[18:23:54] <archivist> I wonder how long he take to realise its a one liner for the cut :)
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[19:53:00] <andypugh> I would do itt with a standard endmill and a tilted head to sweep out the radius.
[19:53:09] <Tom_itx> archivist why do you switch back and forth between absolute and incremental?
[19:56:42] <archivist> I supposed to remember from 5 years ago! I move to an absolute position at the last use angle and then a relative move into the material and back, rinse repeat
[19:57:36] <Tom_itx> Partly Cloudy
[19:57:38] <Tom_itx> Temp: 100.0 F (37.8 C)
[19:58:00] <archivist> been effin raining all day till just now
[19:58:00] <Tom_itx> archivist yes, it's why we comment code :D
[19:58:23] <Tom_itx> i'm just trying to learn more about hand written code
[19:58:26] <archivist> my code has more comments than anyone else I have seen!
[19:58:32] <Tom_itx> all we ever did was cad cam and adjust stuff a bit
[19:58:59] <Tom_itx> how would you approach a bit of code with step and repeat for x and y?
[19:59:05] <Tom_itx> subroutine?
[19:59:14] <Tom_itx> increment G54?
[19:59:35] <Tom_itx> there's more than one way to do it i'm sure
[19:59:46] <archivist> the same probably, not used G54 yet
[20:00:00] <Tom_itx> we did all the time
[20:00:07] <Tom_itx> we used alot of multiple fixture setups
[20:00:21] <archivist> one gets a way of working and just carry on
[20:00:50] <Tom_itx> i was trying to get my cam to output the different fixture offsets but haven't been able to yet
[20:00:52] <archivist> Im only ever working on one part so far
[20:01:51] <archivist> andypugh, I was wondering whether to mention tilted standard end mill earlier :)
[20:02:12] <Tom_itx> how do you calculate the cutter angle then?
[20:02:14] <archivist> my code would just work for that :)
[20:02:53] <archivist> except for the infeed axis needs changing to z
[20:03:28] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/jaws.jpg
[20:03:34] <Tom_itx> that's one simple example
[20:04:05] <Tom_itx> i think that had 3 positions
[20:04:23] <Tom_itx> simple flange
[20:05:28] <Tom_itx> i could have done it in one but the machine time would have been longer
[20:05:42] <Tom_itx> ball nose the profile standing up then cut the slot and holes
[20:07:16] <archivist> nearly all my stuff has been on the rotary and some regular pattern, so I think in that way now
[20:07:23] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/P3.jpg
[20:07:36] <Tom_itx> i guess it would have needed 2 anyway due to the hole
[20:08:38] <andypugh> Tom_itx: When I increment in x and y I tend to just use a nested loop.
[20:08:54] <Tom_itx> i want to learn about that but haven't yet
[20:09:18] <Tom_itx> like i said, if i needed more than one it was quicker just to copy and paste the model and post it
[20:09:34] <Tom_itx> but now i'm about the 'how it works' end
[20:10:11] <archivist> I started as a programmer so using a subroutine is normal
[20:10:41] <archivist> I can see it is a leap for others
[20:10:59] <Tom_itx> we just never used them
[20:11:12] <Tom_itx> but if you're not using cad cam i can see great benfits
[20:11:55] <archivist> there is/was no free cad cam for certain work
[20:12:12] <Tom_itx> mine wasn't free either
[20:12:29] <Tom_itx> but it paid for itself the first year i had it
[20:12:45] <Tom_itx> we got alot of models from vendors
[20:15:52] <Tom_itx> http://clearwateren.com/gallery.php
[20:15:56] <Tom_itx> there's some of what we did
[20:16:34] <Tom_itx> the 3rd pic over under 'titanium/steel' was originally cut from solid billet and later forgings were made for us
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[20:17:13] <Tom_itx> they tried to use an exhisting forging but it wasn't heavy enough for this part
[20:21:16] <Tom_itx> the hole in each end is ~3" to give some perspective
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[21:05:00] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:10:06] <JT-Shop> Tom_itx, you still wondering about my plasma
[21:11:38] <Tom_itx> yeah i may start drawing something for an A axis
[21:11:43] <Tom_itx> i figured i may use a belt
[21:12:11] <Tom_itx> that or a screw
[21:13:48] <JT-Shop> I used 3/8" wide belt so iirc mxc or something like that
[21:13:53] <Tom_itx> worm gear might be better for that but it's a lightweigh mill too
[21:13:55] <jdh> so, I can get a 24000btu 220vac unit, but it says it is 0.25" too wide for my window
[21:14:28] <Tom_itx> jdh get your router out and make the window bigger
[21:15:01] <JT-Shop> maybe XL belts
[21:15:17] <jdh> my downstairs heatpump is only 2t so that kind of seems like overkill for the garage.
[21:15:20] <JT-Shop> for 400 sq ft?
[21:15:34] <jdh> I haven't measured.
[21:15:37] <JT-Shop> or was that someone else
[21:15:44] <jdh> my guess was 400
[21:16:03] <jdh> it's a 3 car garage with a little extra on the side
[21:16:56] <JT-Shop> oh must have been someone else for 3 cars your up around 1000 sq ft more or less
[21:17:15] <jdh> I was guessing 16x25
[21:18:46] <andypugh> Tom_itx: That "push" component looks like a daft thing to machine from solid.
[21:18:54] <archivist> insulation could be cheaper in the long run than the electricity for the aircon, use a smaller one
[21:19:05] <Tom_itx> andy they make everything from solid
[21:19:10] <Tom_itx> but i hear you
[21:19:22] <Tom_itx> it's a door handle :D
[21:19:28] <Tom_itx> i think
[21:19:30] <andypugh> And 12"x7" makes the bauxite fairies cry.
[21:19:39] <archivist> seems the done thing with the aircraft industry
[21:20:52] <Tom_itx> yeah and alot of the time the grain direction is a big deal
[21:21:41] <archivist> I have seen old style steam hammer still being used to forge rings to get the grain right
[21:21:57] <andypugh> Forged rings are still a big business.
[21:22:34] <andypugh> Especially pierced and forged for things like ring-gears
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[21:24:23] <jdh> heh, it's 16' x 32'.
[21:26:22] <andypugh> There again, I spent this evening making something that I am sure they sell in shops: https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5762170767244166418
[21:27:15] <jdh> it's better when you make it yourself.
[21:27:35] <jdh> a conduit elbow/pullbox
[21:27:41] <andypugh> It's also rather a big one, that's 2" conduit
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[21:29:57] <andypugh> I started off trying to make an elbow using this technique, but it turned into a bit of a disaster: http://www.3wheelerworld.com/showthread.php/95083-How-to-build-an-expansion-chamber
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[21:31:07] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/221061103253
[21:31:30] <archivist> was with the photographer when he took this pic http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1689068
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[21:31:52] <andypugh> jdh: Suddenly making one seems competely sensible!
[21:32:21] <jdh> if you needed 5, that might be a good deal.
[21:32:30] <Tom_itx> free shipping
[21:32:48] <andypugh> I bet it wouldn't be free shipping to the UK
[21:32:57] <Tom_itx> likely not
[21:33:22] <jdh> http://www.ebay.com/itm/110897272856
[21:33:26] <jdh> you might need that too
[21:34:01] <andypugh> Yikes!
[21:34:27] <Tom_itx> fill that up with copper and see what it costs you
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[21:35:18] <andypugh> I got mine from ebay. A chap had a 25m roll for £100 BIN so I made an offer at £10. He initially was quite rude, then I got a second email when he read my note saying "the £10 is for one meter, if you are willing to split"
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[21:38:29] <linux-cnc-bob> hi
[21:39:02] <andypugh> Arty! http://youtu.be/ce-Soz3wMUk
[21:39:51] <andypugh> I did a project with Forgemasters, they really don't mess about when it coms to big lumps of metal.
[21:40:03] <JT-Shop> dang thunder keeps knocking my satellite connection out
[21:40:09] <linux-cnc-bob> whats good simple software to generate g-code for linux cnc to do simple 2axis+depth milling?
[21:40:45] <pjm> linux-cnc-bob i use cambam but under windows
[21:41:10] <linux-cnc-bob> i tried pycam but its for 3d milling and seems to take a long time to mill
[21:41:13] <JT-Shop> the simple g code generators perhaps on the wiki
[21:41:13] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: SheetCAM is OK, and runs under linux and Windows
[21:41:22] <linux-cnc-bob> k
[21:41:27] <linux-cnc-bob> i'll check them out thanks
[21:41:41] <andypugh> The Linux demo version doesn't actually seem to have any line-number limitations.
[21:42:30] <andypugh> Also, you occasinally see Les Newall (SheetCAM guy) around the LinuxCNC mailing list. In fact I think he wrote the "jog while paused" script.
[21:43:11] <linux-cnc-bob> cool
[21:43:37] <linux-cnc-bob> would be neat to have a c code to gcode converter i think
[21:43:55] <linux-cnc-bob> kind of like openscad
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[21:44:38] <JT-Shop> andypugh, anaheim automation had the motor/driver in stock :-)
[21:45:02] <andypugh> When does it arrive?
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[21:46:06] <JT-Shop> ships tuesday so 3-4 days from the left coast to me
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[21:48:28] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: I think there is something along those lines about. I have a very vague memory from a couple of years back
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[21:49:55] <archivist> linux-cnc-bob, if happy to write c got straight into writing gcode, its just a bit like dirty assembler
[21:50:05] <archivist> got/get
[21:50:52] <archivist> or perhaps apt360
[21:51:34] <andypugh> archivist: It's more like writing machine code, in Hex.
[21:51:50] <archivist> nah
[21:52:05] <linux-cnc-bob> would be cool to have c code wrappers though maybe
[21:52:13] <andypugh> (though maybe for a 6-bit CPU so you can rememeber all the numbers)
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[21:52:19] <archivist> the variable syntax is just .....
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[21:52:41] <linux-cnc-bob> like a 2d graphics library in c code but instead of drawing to a computer screen image it mills the image :)
[21:53:30] <archivist> you are almost describing APT which is a textual type of system
[21:53:47] <archivist> but... it is a culture shift
[21:54:12] <andypugh> I hate G-code
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[21:54:55] <archivist> the current syntax leaves a nasty taste I know
[21:54:58] <andypugh> It's just rubbish. it's even rubbish at doing what it is meant to do.
[21:55:27] <archivist> I blame the parser in it
[21:55:47] <archivist> as bad as the parser in apt360
[21:56:42] <archivist> fix the rules and you dont "run out of letters"
[21:56:46] <linux-cnc-bob> well a modern language could be a good gcode wrapper
[21:56:59] <linux-cnc-bob> like c# code that generates gcode
[21:57:11] <linux-cnc-bob> i checked out the apt it is from 1950's lol :D
[21:58:22] <archivist> but the ideas in still apply and are under the hood in some applications still probably
[21:58:36] <andypugh> mah seems to be doing a lot of ground-work to allow the use of different parsers in EMC2. Maybe in the future we can say "drill x100 y200 z2 depth 40 peck 4" rather than remembering G93 G81 X100 Y100 Z40 R4 Q3. Because I can't as I just proved.
[22:00:22] <archivist> patterns are in apt so that is probably easy
[22:00:29] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: It makes no sense to convert something else to G-code. You should just use a different interpreter to convert input files to LinuxCNC movement commands.
[22:01:09] <linux-cnc-bob> isnt g code higher level than linux cnc movement commands though?
[22:01:36] <andypugh> Yes. But why go via G-code from your language of choice?
[22:01:59] <linux-cnc-bob> just so its easier to write the gcode
[22:02:07] <linux-cnc-bob> like that example you made of the parser above
[22:02:54] <linux-cnc-bob> its just an idea i had - halfbaked
[22:04:01] <archivist> well the parser causes the revolting variable names in my code I hate the <> [] stuff http://www.archivist.info/cnc/standard_helical_n_teeth.ngc
[22:04:20] <andypugh> I would prefer to expunge G-code from the model to part path.
[22:05:14] <archivist> I still think you need a machine control language because of the specifics of hardware control
[22:05:44] <andypugh> I suppose so. But it could be something less hideous than G-code
[22:07:07] <archivist> apt has direct part programming where you do that and then postprocess, almost there but
[22:07:08] <linux-cnc-bob> just put a modern wrapper around the gcode
[22:07:11] <linux-cnc-bob> and never look at it again
[22:08:05] <linux-cnc-bob> apt looks cool: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/uploads/spirograph.apt
[22:08:44] <archivist> been working on fixing a few typos in the manual and understanding what it can do
[22:08:51] <archivist> http://www.archivist.info/apt/aptos/apt360/doc/manual/p2p_programming.html
[22:09:06] <linux-cnc-bob> is that going to be part of linux cnc?
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[22:10:43] <archivist> dont think so as it is a separate project and can have many post processors
[22:12:19] <archivist> you can play with http://opensourcedesigntools.blogspot.com/2012/06/apt360-websockets-demonstration-apt360.html
[22:12:40] <archivist> to save the effort of getting it running
[22:13:20] <linux-cnc-bob> cool
[22:13:51] <linux-cnc-bob> that is cool
[22:13:52] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[22:14:08] <linux-cnc-bob> so if I want to make a circle 1" diameter what apt code is it?
[22:15:14] <archivist> I "cough" know the manual and code better that how to actually use :)
[22:15:49] <linux-cnc-bob> it looks pretty good but ya I have no idea how to use it
[22:15:53] <archivist> to me thats is a one liner in gcode
[22:16:40] <archivist> there is a point where one is easier than the other
[22:16:42] <linux-cnc-bob> i guess i should learn some gcode
[22:17:49] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: A 1" circle in G-code is G3 I 12.7
[22:18:11] <archivist> ! that is metric !
[22:18:18] <archivist> :)
[22:18:46] <linux-cnc-bob> i can convert - its metric radius i guess
[22:18:50] <archivist> is his machine defaulting to inch or metric
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[22:19:15] <linux-cnc-bob> think its set to inch
[22:19:26] <linux-cnc-bob> ya it is
[22:19:36] <archivist> hint we all add a preamble to set units and standard machine defaults
[22:20:07] <linux-cnc-bob> is it hard to make an oval in gcode?
[22:21:01] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: yes
[22:21:33] <Tom_itx> it would very likely be broken up into a whole bunch of short line segments
[22:21:52] <andypugh> Though it rather depends on whether you want an oval that Euclid would be proud of, or something close enough.
[22:22:18] <andypugh> You can approximate an oval with (I think) 4 arcs.
[22:22:22] <linux-cnc-bob> something between a circle and s rectangle would do
[22:22:23] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[22:22:36] <linux-cnc-bob> so that is where gcode fails
[22:23:26] <andypugh> But a true oval has a continuously changing radius of curvature. I have a feeling that a true oval is absolutely impossible in G-code.
[22:23:35] <JT-Shop> linux-cnc-bob, if your new to G code you might want to look at this http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tutorial/index.html
[22:24:08] <linux-cnc-bob> thanks i will have to read that
[22:24:24] <archivist> JT-Shop, g3 missing from table http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#_g_code_quick_reference_table_a_id_quick_reference_table_a
[22:24:53] <JT-Shop> what the heck happened to it?
[22:25:14] <archivist> andypugh, but a circle is a special oval...should be possible
[22:25:28] <linux-cnc-bob> ya thats true
[22:25:29] * JT-Shop wonders why unimplemented G codes are even mentioned
[22:25:36] <andypugh> http://www.rowan.edu/colleges/las/departments/math/facultystaff/osler/106%20APPROXIMATING%20AN%20ELLIPSE%20WITH%20FOUR%20CIRCULAR%20ARCS%20Sept2submission%20to%20MACE_Rev3a.pdf
[22:26:42] <andypugh> NURBS might allow you to make a perfect oval. (within machine limits)
[22:26:47] <linux-cnc-bob> is there tool diameter compensation in gcode?
[22:26:58] <andypugh> Of course
[22:27:14] <linux-cnc-bob> how does it know what side of the cut to compensate on?
[22:27:19] <andypugh> You tell it
[22:27:21] <linux-cnc-bob> like if you are milling a circle
[22:27:27] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#sec:G41-G42
[22:27:59] <andypugh> G41 is one side, G42 the other. One is left of travel and one is right. I have no idea which is which without checking :-)
[22:28:30] <archivist> one has to cut air to remember :)
[22:28:32] <JT-Shop> archivist, G3 was there at one time :(
[22:28:51] <linux-cnc-bob> im thinking of making a GUI that outputs Gcode
[22:29:01] <archivist> JT-Shop, its in the older html that pointed to that doc
[22:29:11] <JT-Shop> might want to look at the simple g code generators on the wiki
[22:29:52] <linux-cnc-bob> is there one that can make circles, and lines for 2.5D milling?
[22:29:53] <JT-Shop> yea, i just checked the old docs and it must have gotten lost some how as the descriptions are all different too
[22:29:53] <andypugh> G3 is the Widdershins Code, and must be avoided!
[22:29:55] <archivist> linux-cnc-bob, I did a gcode generator for gears and soon went back to gcode hacking, easier
[22:30:23] <JT-Shop> linux-cnc-bob, have a look on the wike
[22:30:26] <JT-Shop> wiki
[22:30:54] <linux-cnc-bob> this one i guess
[22:30:56] <linux-cnc-bob> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_EMC_G-Code_Generators
[22:32:53] <linux-cnc-bob> can linux cnc export a file of the actual data sent over the parallel port?
[22:33:09] <archivist> why!
[22:33:31] <archivist> it is realtime control
[22:33:33] <linux-cnc-bob> to save the machine code and then run it on a microcontroller maybe
[22:33:49] <linux-cnc-bob> ya but if its timestamped it could be run later too
[22:33:56] <linux-cnc-bob> if theres no feedback
[22:34:10] <linux-cnc-bob> my setup has no feedback except for estop
[22:35:48] <andypugh> I prophesy servos in Bob's future...
[22:36:11] <andypugh> And FPGA cards...
[22:36:23] <linux-cnc-bob> lol
[22:36:31] <linux-cnc-bob> i like stepper motors for now
[22:37:07] <archivist> steppers commit you to slow machines
[22:37:14] <linux-cnc-bob> for G1 F100 what is the F for?
[22:37:22] <archivist> speed
[22:37:49] <andypugh> In fact, he may never make a component again, other than parts for increasingly capable CNC machines. Welcome to the Dark Side of LinuxCNC, Where you _could_ make almost anything, but are too busy trying to get rid of the "almost" to actually do so.
[22:37:52] <Tom_itx> guess again
[22:38:02] <Tom_itx> F is feed S is spindle speed
[22:38:25] <archivist> speed of cut :)
[22:38:34] <Tom_itx> i know :)
[22:38:34] <archivist> feed speed
[22:38:51] <linux-cnc-bob> lol
[22:38:58] <andypugh> F for Vesence
[22:39:07] <linux-cnc-bob> its true, my first project is to make my 3axis cnc into a 3dprinter
[22:40:08] <archivist> we all do suffer from the changing the machine to do something different malady
[22:40:36] <linux-cnc-bob> bought a print head and can generate gcode for 3dprinting from slic3r
[22:40:39] <Loetmichel> andypugh: got a little depression?
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[22:41:25] <andypugh> Loetmichel: No, I am content in my hobby. But the Clock that I wanted to make is receding ever further into the distance :-)
[22:42:28] <Loetmichel> "you are only e REAL hobby machinist when you catch yourself building a tool to make a mould to build a mount to make a round table to do a project you have long since fergotten ;-)
[22:42:33] <Loetmichel> "
[22:42:53] <linux-cnc-bob> haha
[22:43:11] <Loetmichel> BTDT ;-)
[22:43:38] <archivist> I have some sets of castings....never finished any though
[22:43:59] <linux-cnc-bob> i plan on making a 3d electron beam printer eventually
[22:44:14] <Loetmichel> electron beam?
[22:44:15] <linux-cnc-bob> electron beam 3d printer i mean
[22:44:22] <Loetmichel> fused metal powder?
[22:44:26] <linux-cnc-bob> ya
[22:44:30] <linux-cnc-bob> one layer at a time
[22:44:38] <Loetmichel> why not laser?
[22:45:00] <linux-cnc-bob> electron beam can be aimed and focused simply
[22:45:12] <Loetmichel> cheaper , easier to build and less dangerous ifd one hase the right googles
[22:45:14] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[22:45:35] <andypugh> No, You are only a real hobby machinist when you are learning a language to write a driver to control some hardware to make a part to make a mould to make a part… And when you are into hardware you don't even own after step 2.
[22:45:50] <linux-cnc-bob> i havent seen a cheap laser that can draw a 2d image fast and powerful like an electron beam
[22:46:15] <JT-Shop> archivist, that is some kind of asciidoc mystery that I've yet to solve...
[22:46:15] <andypugh> Projectors are looking like a really interesting isea.
[22:46:20] <Loetmichel> linux-cnc-bob: simply? IIRC the CDT TVs i have repaired make a LOT of fuzz to get the beam stable in focus and have no "pillow" distortion
[22:46:46] <Loetmichel> the flatter the screen the more work to get it straight
[22:46:49] <archivist> JT-Shop, dunno , never looked at the asciidoc source yet
[22:46:50] <andypugh> Electron beam welding is amazing.
[22:46:51] <linux-cnc-bob> its simple by no moving parts, but ya its hard to get working initially
[22:47:26] <JT-Shop> I just tried a couple of things and seems some kind of quirk with an link in a table
[22:47:44] <linux-cnc-bob> loetmichel: i think you can use software to calibrate for the beam distortion
[22:47:55] <andypugh> I did a research project on it. 3mm welds straight through 75mm plate with no filler rod. And welding stainless to alloy carbon steel too.
[22:47:58] <Loetmichel> linux-cnc-bob: fir the image yes
[22:48:02] <Loetmichel> for the focus no
[22:48:03] <archivist> JT-Shop, is it a hand edited table
[22:48:21] <linux-cnc-bob> loetmichel ya for the focus too, if you use a focus coil that is hooked up to the PC
[22:48:38] <Loetmichel> linux-cnc-bob: ... and the PC is fast enough ;-)
[22:48:51] <Jymmm> so basically a CRT with the front cut off.
[22:48:54] <andypugh> linux-cnc-bob: But, there is the problem. An electron beam will cheerfully weld 1m depth. Lasers might be more suitable.
[22:48:55] <linux-cnc-bob> ya
[22:49:03] <linux-cnc-bob> jymmm: a 1.5kW beam CRT :D
[22:49:32] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: more or less... but MUCH more powerful electron emitter
[22:49:33] <linux-cnc-bob> andypugh: i never heard of an electron beam welding 1m depth
[22:49:45] <Loetmichel> if he wants to weld metal dust together
[22:49:49] <linux-cnc-bob> i thought the electrons will get stopped by the first 1mm or so
[22:49:53] <Jymmm> Ok, a 1942 CRT with the front cut off.
[22:49:53] <andypugh> I collaborated with twi :-)
[22:50:11] <JT-Shop> I'd go look at it more but the other children are here working on their cannons
[22:50:13] <linux-cnc-bob> twi?
[22:50:34] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Go look you yute!
[22:50:52] <andypugh> http://www.twi.co.uk/technologies/welding-coating-and-material-processing/electron-beam-welding/
[22:51:55] <linux-cnc-bob> how do the electrons penetrate to do a deep weld?
[22:52:14] <Jymmm> http://www.twi.co.uk/EasysiteWeb/getresource.axd?AssetID=229875&type=full&servicetype=inline
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[22:53:11] <andypugh> If you want a deep weld EB is tha best of the current technologies.
[22:53:22] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NONurFigP5I
[22:54:38] <Loetmichel> hmm, lets see... i am in progrsss of building a reprap(double size), finishing a cnc router for a co-worker to build parts for my owb big CNC (my old one is to msmall for that), building a new hexacopter and thinkung about how to geht the 1kg PVA chips here into a 3mm filament for the reprap...
[22:54:39] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[22:54:58] <Jymmm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvYcEEt4K0A&feature=related
[22:55:04] <Jymmm> eeeeesh
[22:56:17] <Jymmm> cosmetic pass?! (showoffs)
[22:56:21] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel make an extruder for the filament and feed it to your reprap
[22:57:30] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: forget gunpowder.... THERMITE!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCqG3rWtNbc&feature=related
[22:57:35] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: thats the idea
[22:58:08] <Loetmichel> to get water soluble supports for the second extruder on the reprap
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[22:58:23] <Tom_itx> make a big glue gun nozzle cooling the output to a takeup spool
[22:58:30] <Loetmichel> but the only pva i could get was in small chips form ;-)
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[22:59:40] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: will do, something a bit more sophisticated with an extruder screw in it
[22:59:52] <linux-cnc-bob> theres one being made
[22:59:55] <linux-cnc-bob> from kickstarter
[23:00:12] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_beam_welding says "To explain the capability of the electron beam to produce deep and narrow welds, we have to explain the process of "penetration" " but that is the last sentence that makes any sense at all.
[23:00:43] <Tom_itx> weld with thermite
[23:00:44] <linux-cnc-bob> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rocknail/filabot-plastic-filament-maker?ref=live
[23:01:18] <Loetmichel> linux-cnc-bob: i know.
[23:01:29] <Loetmichel> but too long to wait
[23:01:30] <andypugh> (When I say it makes no sense, that is from the perspective of someone who spent a PhD worrying about electron beam scatter)
[23:01:31] <linux-cnc-bob> its opensource too :D
[23:01:35] <Loetmichel> will do it myself ;-)
[23:02:04] <Loetmichel> andypugh: maybe you are worrying to much?
[23:02:24] <Loetmichel> put enough power in and some percent of it will get where you want it ;-)
[23:02:29] <linux-cnc-bob> ya electron beam scatter doesnt matter for metals
[23:02:40] <andypugh> Loetmichel: http://xkcd.com/386/
[23:02:55] <linux-cnc-bob> only for semiconductors with sensitive layers of photoresist or whatever
[23:02:58] <Loetmichel> andypugh: HRHR
[23:03:10] <Loetmichel> you too?
[23:03:11] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[23:06:32] <andypugh> Maybe I should Kickstater one of my ideas?
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[23:06:59] <andypugh> Here it is: A drill vice with switchable magnets in the base.
[23:07:01] <linux-cnc-bob> ya lots of opportunities on there right now
[23:09:05] <andypugh> Very old school, but it would be nice to drill a hole, then change bit to counterbore, and know that the vice was not going to move or wobble on the next op.
[23:09:35] <andypugh> I know you can clamp down a drill vice, but who does?
[23:10:15] <andypugh> (Not suitable for non-ferro-magnetic drill tables)
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[23:20:02] <Tom_itx> i usually do
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[23:22:29] <Tom_itx> the problem with that is i usually have to lower the table and that screws it all up
[23:23:45] <ReadError> i drillpress wobbles the bit too much
[23:23:48] <ReadError> i think i need a new one...
[23:24:45] <archivist> may just need a new chuck or a new arbour for the chuck
[23:25:48] <archivist> I turned the taper on the end of the spindle to fix one of mine
[23:32:48] <JT-Shop> I have clamped down a drill press vise at least twice iirc
[23:34:30] <archivist> adding a long handle to deal with torque is a bad habit, I know I should bolt the vice down
[23:35:52] <andypugh> So, do you see the attraction in a magnetic clingy vice?
[23:36:19] <Tom_itx> yup
[23:36:32] <Tom_itx> just like the magnetic base for dial indicators etc
[23:36:40] <archivist> I see a future of all the swarf sticking to the magnets
[23:36:40] <andypugh> 15 years ago, when I approached Eclipse, they dodn't get it at all.
[23:37:08] <Tom_itx> archivist it works on surface grinders
[23:37:10] <andypugh> archivist: Yes, bit no more so than with a magnetic DTI
[23:37:40] <archivist> I effing hate the swarf stuck to the indicator stand as well
[23:38:25] <archivist> the button is usually too tight on the eclipse dti stands to short out the magnetism
[23:38:39] <andypugh> archivist: Use Titanium instead :-)
[23:39:28] <archivist> I prefer brass more better shiny
[23:41:01] <linux-cnc-bob> i just wrote my first gcode
[23:41:03] <linux-cnc-bob> :D
[23:41:48] <andypugh> I like brass. It is a hugely unfashionable material, but has a number of great properties.
[23:42:56] <andypugh> And, very often, the machinability makes up for the material cost too.
[23:43:57] <archivist> corrosion and wear properties keep it in use too
[23:45:04] <andypugh> My bike panniers are held on by brass castings bolted to stainless rails.
[23:45:51] <andypugh> I admit my brass enthusiasm comes from : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RCS_Motor_Club
[23:47:15] <archivist> I must admit there is a brass fire hose coupling on the windowsill here :)
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[23:48:44] <archivist> well on the table now, it is a screw to a quick release adapter
[23:49:36] <andypugh> There was a chap at Kew bridge a few weeks ago with a lovely Steam Fire Pump using leather hose. I have not see anyone dare to do that before, but it worked well. Except his £60 30' eBay hose became 2x15' during the display.
[23:51:25] <archivist> maker of this adapter is C Winn & co bham, wonder what their dates were
[23:52:07] <archivist> and which brigade stamped OFB on their kit
[23:52:42] <andypugh> Oldham?
[23:53:12] <archivist> Oxford, who knows
[23:54:26] <andypugh> Any hint of Indian-ness? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OFB
[23:54:51] <archivist> it is possible it has local/Staffordshire connections
[23:55:00] <andypugh> Oswestry?
[23:55:24] <archivist> closer but still some distance and another county
[23:57:36] <andypugh> How much do you want to know? I am acquainted of some Uber-Geeks
[23:59:29] <archivist> I knew someone who infested a number of local groups and that is where it ended up with me, he wanted me to machine it, I never did
[23:59:30] <andypugh> (For example, http://www.whrsoc.org.uk/WHRProject/microETS.html Which seems to combine train-spotting and computer encryption is a quite frightening way)
[23:59:45] <archivist> I wonder if he got into http://www.burton-on-trent.org.uk/category/amenities/firebrigade/fire4