#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-07-16

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[00:00:08] <andypugh> Jymmm: They don't bend. At all.
[00:00:21] <andypugh> And they are extremely hard to snap by hand too.
[00:00:30] <Jymmm> andypugh: pure or thoriated?
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[00:00:52] <andypugh> Thoriated is all I know of, but the difference is likely to be negligible.
[00:01:11] <Jymmm> andypugh: Heh, glow in the dark tent stakes =)
[00:01:21] <andypugh> Thoriated are radioactive though.
[00:02:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: thus the GITD
[00:02:59] <andypugh> I can imagine that they would make pretty good guide rods for whatever it is you are working on.
[00:03:21] <Tom_itx> i was thinking of adding to my pendant but not sure if this was possible. adding buttons to jog at the Axis Manual control feedrate when pushed emulating the + - buttons on the axis screeen
[00:03:23] <Jymmm> andypugh: Just for tarp/tent stakes is what I was thinking
[00:03:46] <Jymmm> andypugh: thin, lightweight, strong
[00:04:00] <andypugh> It is about twice as stiff as the equivalent size of steel.
[00:04:16] <andypugh> But not even slightly light.
[00:04:38] <Jymmm> andypugh: at 0.125" ?
[00:04:52] <andypugh> 2.5x as dense as steel.
[00:04:54] <Tom_itx> it's pretty stiff but i bet you could bend those
[00:05:08] <Tom_itx> i have some plate i can't bend
[00:05:09] <andypugh> You would be better off with hollw steel tube.
[00:05:32] <Tom_itx> ti doesn't rust
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[00:05:43] <Jymmm> Heh, I have some thick walled SS tubing 1/4"
[00:05:56] <Tom_itx> is my button idea feasable?
[00:06:04] <Jymmm> bbiab... foodage
[00:06:21] <Tom_itx> just had bbq chicken
[00:06:28] <JT-Shop> iirc you have to set the halui jog speed somehow
[00:06:42] <Tom_itx> it won't recognize the on screen feedrate?
[00:06:54] <Tom_itx> i just wanted to emulate the - + buttons
[00:07:04] <Tom_itx> using the on screen rate
[00:07:24] <andypugh> Boron is just as stiff as tungsten, but 1/10th the density.
[00:07:32] <Tom_itx> it's no biggie, just a thought
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[00:15:20] * JT-Shop still tries to finger out how to execute a glade file from python
[00:16:14] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop, what are you working on with glade?
[00:16:36] <JT-Shop> just trying to learn how to make a simple screen
[00:16:45] <JT-Shop> trying to learn how to use Glade
[00:16:50] <Tom_itx> for a user interface?
[00:16:55] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:17:02] <Tom_itx> i thought it was air freshener :)
[00:17:05] <JT-Shop> I can make the Glade part
[00:17:15] <JT-Shop> sometimes that too
[00:17:17] <Tom_itx> never messed with it personally
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[00:25:20] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Section 7.2 here: http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/gui/gladevcp.html
[00:26:08] <andypugh> The actions are functions in python file loaded at the gladevcp command line.
[00:26:37] <JT-Shop> I'm just working on a plain glade file atm not gladevcp
[00:26:43] <andypugh> But If you didn't need that with PyVCP, why do you need it now?
[00:27:25] <JT-Shop> I'm just learning glade stand alone with python
[00:28:05] <JT-Shop> ie a HelloWorld in glade and python
[00:29:32] <JT-Shop> I think I found a tutorial
[00:29:47] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: http://www.pygtk.org/articles/pygtk-glade-gui/Creating_a_GUI_using_PyGTK_and_Glade.htm
[00:30:18] <JT-Shop> i was looking at that one but it seems to be glade 2.x not 3.x
[00:30:27] <Jymmm> ah
[00:30:44] <andypugh> Maybe wait for mah to pop up?
[00:31:00] <JT-Shop> kinda late for him I think
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[00:45:44] <JT-Shop> holy crap it worked
[00:46:05] <jdh> I had faith.
[00:46:31] <Jymmm> jdh: Then why are your toes crossed?
[00:46:33] <JT-Shop> about 15 lines in python
[00:46:34] <Connor> JT-Shop: What worked ?
[00:46:47] <JT-Shop> my glade python gui
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[01:07:31] <r00t4rd3d> screenshot?
[01:13:23] <r00t4rd3d> i got bee stung in the neck today
[01:14:06] <ink> ouch
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[01:47:59] <delkin> ora boas, maltinha
[01:50:10] <gmagno> good evening. I wonder what went wrong here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUA4xg7bWC4&feature=youtu.be Why drilling those holes was such a noisy and smokey task? You guys have any idea? Too much rotation speed?
[01:51:32] <Tom_itx> rpm too high feed too slow
[01:51:49] <Tom_itx> i dont have audio but that's what i see
[01:52:57] <gmagno> feed too slow?? Really? I thought the slower the better
[01:53:08] <Tom_itx> what rpm is it?
[01:53:14] <Tom_itx> i bet the rpm is way too high
[01:53:19] <gmagno> 20,000
[01:53:41] <Tom_itx> yeah
[01:54:03] <toastydeath> spindle is way way too fast for that feed rate
[01:54:15] <gmagno> how much speed would you recommend?
[01:56:03] <toastydeath> it depends on how fast your machine can plunge
[01:56:28] <gmagno> I mean rpm
[01:56:36] <Tom_itx> maybe 1/10th that
[01:56:36] <toastydeath> ..it depends on how fast your machine can plunge
[01:57:55] <gmagno> sry for asking, but what do you mean by plunging? The z movement?
[01:58:08] <toastydeath> you can leave it at 20k rpm IF your machine can feed in Z at 40-80 inches per minute
[01:58:29] <gmagno> oh i see
[01:58:51] <toastydeath> the reason it's burning is because you are not going fast enough in Z
[01:58:54] <gmagno> rpm should be way slower then :)
[01:59:08] <toastydeath> so you can either slow the spindle down, or make it move faster
[01:59:41] <toastydeath> that looks like a 1/8" drill or thereabouts, and MDF won't burn at 20k rpm with that size drill.
[01:59:56] <toastydeath> provided it's being fed fast enough.
[02:00:15] <Tom_itx> one or the other needs to change
[02:00:21] <gmagno> yeah, more or less. It is a 3mm drill
[02:01:16] <Tom_itx> your bit is likely trash now too, use a different one
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[02:01:26] <gmagno> broke :)
[02:01:53] <gmagno> it broke doing the matrix holes
[02:02:12] <toastydeath> how fast can your machine move
[02:02:28] <toastydeath> you need to be hustling along a lot faster with that spindle.
[02:02:37] <delkin> Don't forget the other bits that became completely flat and black burnt
[02:02:40] <toastydeath> the edge tear out will go away
[02:02:41] <delkin> gmagno
[02:03:24] <Jymmm> gmagno: Are you trying to "drill" holes larger thanthe bit you're using?
[02:03:53] <gmagno> toastydeath, 8mm/s i thnk
[02:03:55] <Jymmm> That is a very slow retracting Z too
[02:04:03] <gmagno> toastydeath, but we didnt feed at that rate
[02:04:55] <toastydeath> you should go faster.
[02:05:15] <gmagno> Jymmm, erm I'm willing to carve things like to one in the video, I consider a big hole as a continuously carving a circle several times. What do you mean?
[02:05:16] <toastydeath> at 20k rpm, you should be plunging with that drill at 17 mm/s
[02:05:18] <toastydeath> minimum
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[02:05:51] <Jymmm> gmagno: Is that an actual drill bit, or one of those "roto bits"?
[02:05:53] <gmagno> toastydeath, I can easily reduce rotation speed. I will do that
[02:05:59] <toastydeath> ya
[02:06:18] <toastydeath> gmagno, the reason i am harping on feed rate is that you are going too slowly overall
[02:06:55] <toastydeath> slowing the spindle down can only help you in a limited way before the feed rate really does have to come up
[02:07:10] <gmagno> Jymmm, in the first part of the video Im doing a hole matrix with one of those wood drill typically used with http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.virginia.edu/art/studio/safety/sculpture/wstools/handdrill.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.virginia.edu/art/studio/safety/sculpture/wstools/handdrill.htm&h=702&w=808&sz=73&tbnid=cg9S7FNeJwNVvM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=104&zoom=1&usg=__ErTUxloiUBEz6iVUnzTEtD5Jr6k=&docid=BzWWTB6SXzbR3M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=N3cD
[02:07:10] <gmagno> UKOqNej24QSHn4ykCA&ved=0CF8Q9QEwAw&dur=4649
[02:07:42] <gmagno> in the second part I'm carving something a bit more complex with a carbonide tungsten 3mm drill
[02:07:47] <gmagno> cilindrical
[02:07:49] <toastydeath> you can see the top cut tear out on the mdf
[02:07:57] <toastydeath> when you are carving/milling
[02:08:22] <Jymmm> gmagno: slow the dremel to almost it's lowest speed when drilling and give that a try
[02:08:32] <gmagno> toastydeath, hmm i see
[02:08:48] <gmagno> Jymmm, absolutely!
[02:09:24] <gmagno> I was being too conservative. I thought that it would be better to be slow feeding and fastest spindle rotation.. :P
[02:09:51] <toastydeath> other way around
[02:10:02] <Tom_itx> it was like rubbing two sticks together very fast. you were just generating heat
[02:11:32] <gmagno> Tom_itx, yup, got that
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[02:12:57] <gmagno> btw, you guys have any reference sheet where you have these information about feed speed, rpm, how deep the drill should plunge... etc
[02:13:29] <gmagno> in terms of drill shape or thickness
[02:14:28] <Tom_itx> it's not specifically for mdf or wood but i ran across this the other day: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Simple_LinuxCNC_G-Code_Generators#Drilling_Speeds_n_Feeds
[02:14:37] <toastydeath> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speeds_and_feeds
[02:15:35] <gmagno> great stuff!
[02:15:44] <gmagno> thank you!
[02:16:19] <toastydeath> beginners tend to focus on spindle speed, when it is really the less important of the two
[02:16:41] <Tom_itx> it's more about chip load than speed
[02:16:52] <Tom_itx> if the feed AND speed match it will cut nice
[02:17:59] <Tom_itx> some materials will work harden if you cut them wrong and cause premature tool failure
[02:20:59] <Tom_itx> http://www.custompartnet.com/calculator/milling-speed-and-feed
[02:21:01] <Tom_itx> http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/GCode/Feed-Rate-Calculator.phtml
[02:21:15] <Tom_itx> those are a couple i've posted here in the past
[02:22:23] <Tom_itx> toastydeath what do you use for a chipload on wood/mdf?
[02:22:29] <Tom_itx> i don't cut much wood
[02:22:54] <Tom_itx> something around .006" per tooth?
[02:22:55] <toastydeath> i treat it like aluminum, but i don't cut it all the time
[02:23:04] <Tom_itx> maybe.004
[02:23:09] <toastydeath> anything from .001" to .010"
[02:23:30] <toastydeath> it will start to chip before aluminum does, so with bigger milling cutters i'll do .020 per tooth in alu
[02:23:39] <toastydeath> i won't ever go much beyond .010" in wood
[02:23:42] <toastydeath> even if it's mdf
[02:24:18] <Tom_itx> those small machines may not handle that
[02:24:47] <toastydeath> most machines will handle .001"
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[02:25:34] <toastydeath> and a lot of them will handle .010" if you reduce the depth of cut, either axially or radially
[02:26:27] <Tom_itx> yeah .001 should work on just about anything
[02:29:41] <Tom_itx> what percent of the mill width do you generally cut on say a pocket cutout?
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[02:30:47] <Tom_itx> in general.. i know each situation may vary
[02:31:11] <toastydeath> two options
[02:31:19] <toastydeath> 20% or less, or 80% or more.
[02:31:42] <toastydeath> those two options tend to eliminate corner burn and chatter
[02:32:40] <toastydeath> if the mill is under 1/4 of the diameter of the smallest corner radius it doesn't matter
[02:33:08] <toastydeath> but most pockets I did were square, and the mill had to pierce a wall and come to a halt before cutting the next wall face
[02:33:31] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:34:44] <Tom_itx> one of the noisest ones we did was a pocket cutout for the intake on a funnycar screw blower using something like 8" long cutters
[02:35:17] <Tom_itx> did the inside first then filled it with ballast and finished the outside
[02:35:41] <toastydeath> one of the coolest tricks I've seen involves very long cutters
[02:36:10] <toastydeath> you can take heavy cuts on a very long cutter if you nail a highly damped frequency of the system
[02:36:21] <Tom_itx> yeah
[02:36:34] <toastydeath> silent, no chatter
[02:37:07] <Tom_itx> i wouldn't say it was silent :)
[02:37:45] <Tom_itx> it was a one off part so we didn't try to fine tune it for production runs
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[03:10:24] <gmagno> I'm leaving, take care
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[03:40:44] <r00t4rd3d> :D
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[03:56:35] <tjb1> http://mashable.com/2012/07/08/nasa-mars-panorama/
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[05:46:44] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[10:23:39] <DJ9DJ> tag
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[11:14:05] <r00t4rd3d> YOUR IT
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[11:48:28] <r00t4rd3d> I can move all my axis with 1 finger now :)
[11:51:54] <r00t4rd3d> the nut on my x axis was misaligned by 1/4 inch
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[11:55:40] <Tom_itx> 1/4".. holy crap
[11:56:08] <r00t4rd3d> i probably owe sparkfun the 23 bucks for the motor they warrantied.
[11:56:37] <Tom_itx> 1/4" would explain alot
[11:58:52] <r00t4rd3d> i had my shit all apart and sandwiched the ends and the nut together and I could not see the nut hole :/
[12:02:14] <r00t4rd3d> not sure how i accomplished that, I eyed balled it in there perfectly.
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[13:07:34] <jdh> is your eyeball NIST traceable?
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[14:37:51] <jdh> I only quit due to gas reserves. If I had my RB, I'd still be there.
[14:38:00] <jdh> <urk>
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[14:39:46] <r00t4rd3d> WHAT
[14:40:42] <syyl> !
[14:40:44] <r00t4rd3d> http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/
[14:41:16] <r00t4rd3d> play that
[14:42:02] <r00t4rd3d> its fun even for old farts
[14:46:01] <Loetmichel> *AAAAAAh* ... have to cut 1500mm aluminium tape to 1000 snipplets 20*30mm... and every 10 cuts the paper cuiter will have to be cleaned because of the glue on the blades...
[14:46:50] <r00t4rd3d> hire a mexican
[14:47:29] <jdh> he's in .de
[14:47:41] <jdh> hire a ukranian
[14:47:41] <r00t4rd3d> ok a child laborer
[14:50:15] <r00t4rd3d> if you play kerbal space program watch this to learn how to make it to the moon
[14:50:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGd_BFu9e10
[14:50:43] <r00t4rd3d> i did it without watching that but they have some good pointers
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[15:03:19] <JT-Shop> now I'm sure ricky_a is a girl or a child
[15:04:41] <jdh> on the interwebbes?
[15:05:19] <jdh> all girls are guys... all underage girls are male FBI agents
[15:08:14] <JT-Shop> forum
[15:14:27] <Loetmichel> *snip* *snip* -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13429
[15:15:37] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: jdh http://i37.tinypic.com/nvqukn.jpg
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[15:21:13] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: jdh http://i37.tinypic.com/nvqukn.jpg
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[15:22:52] <jdh> I think once was more than enough.
[15:23:28] <Jymmm> jdh: JT-Shop disconnected
[15:23:45] <jdh> I assumed it was in reaction to the img.
[15:24:33] <Jymmm> nah
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[15:35:25] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[15:38:51] <micges> hi
[15:39:31] <Loetmichel> re @ home
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[15:44:36] <JT-Shop> hi
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[15:53:51] <pcw_home> One cold July here (55 degrees currently)
[15:54:28] <pcw_home> Our garden is in suspended animation
[15:55:45] <JT-Shop> my garden is providing well and all the bunnies are FD&H as well as a few deer
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[15:56:18] <cradek> I know a rotating U-joint does not transmit constant velocity, but I can't decide whether that matters when using one for struts on a delta platform. It seems like they would have a constant center-to-center distance; is that all that's important?
[15:57:05] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: Fat, Dumb, & Horny?
[15:57:06] <JT-Shop> cool, your building a delta?
[15:57:27] <JT-Shop> something like that yea
[15:57:50] <Jymmm> k
[15:58:17] <pcw_home> We have a 6 foot fence to keep deer/chickens/sheep out, though the sheep have all day and night to figure out ways to get in
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[15:58:53] <cradek> JT-Shop: only in my head so far.
[15:58:57] <JT-Shop> I have a 30" rabbit fence the deer just step over and the rabbits go under
[15:59:00] <Jymmm> Gotta love the guberment... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formaldehyde#FEMA_trailer_incidents
[15:59:32] <pcw_home> We had a 5 foot fence. 0 trouble for the deer
[16:00:12] <Jymmm> pcw_home: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100489143/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=motion+sprinkler&storeId=10051
[16:01:29] <TekniQue> clever
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[16:02:07] <pcw_home> The sheep work at the fence and get their heads under if we dont stake the wire to the ground between posts
[16:03:47] <pcw_home> is the U- joint running a jack? seems like that would cause periodic errors
[16:04:00] <Jymmm> pcw_home: electric fence?
[16:04:13] <cradek> no, I mean for the ends of the struts (the parallelograms)
[16:06:34] <pcw_home> Yeah I guess if the end to end distance is the same its OK
[16:06:35] <pcw_home> Is that an alternative to the ball joints?
[16:06:52] <cradek> I don't know what kind of joints are typically used
[16:08:12] <cradek> A Delta robot is a type of parallel robot.[2] It consists of three arms connected to universal joints at the base. [wikipedia]
[16:08:22] <cradek> so I guess maybe U joints are typical
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[16:10:08] <JT-Shop> hmmm, little yellow computer has 8.04 preloaded
[16:10:15] <pcw_home> Yeah googling looks like "Cardanic" joints are common (double u joints)
[16:10:44] <Jymmm> "W Joints"
[16:11:23] <r00t4rd3d> i like joints
[16:11:25] <cradek> I think those are CV
[16:12:46] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint
[16:13:12] <Jymmm> requires axels to be balanced to use a CV joint
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[16:23:53] <IchGuckLive> someone has ever workedout a robot like kuka or ABB in Linuxcnc
[16:25:49] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLxwAX8G3oI
[16:26:03] <mrsun> gah i need to get my vfd cabinett done ... but gaah :P
[16:26:33] <JT-Shop> I wonder if I can plug the CF card into my desktop and install the LiveCD on it that way?
[16:26:54] <skunkworks> http://youtu.be/80YhX73DuSg
[16:26:55] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you have any sucess?
[16:27:37] <jdh> have you tried booting a USB stick?
[16:27:43] <JT-Shop> no
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[16:28:27] <jdh> I burned the livecd to an old one and installed from there (normal pc though)
[16:30:37] <skunkworks> http://tech.woot.com/plus/corsair
[16:31:34] <JT-Shop> I'm doing the install script
[16:39:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/
[16:39:55] <skunkworks> logger[psha],
[16:40:11] <r00t4rd3d> JT-Shop, with unetbooting you could
[16:40:37] <r00t4rd3d> oh wait i though you wanted to use the cf card to install with
[16:41:20] <r00t4rd3d> but i guess you could run it live too
[16:41:59] <r00t4rd3d> unetbootin will take a iso and write it to a drive like its a disk
[16:44:17] <r00t4rd3d> i dont think you cant install linuxcnc on a disk in one computer and plug it into another computer with different specs.
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[17:11:54] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Yeah, you can.
[17:12:35] <Jymmm> for the most part.
[17:13:09] <Jymmm> If they shortened it a bit, it be perfect... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIPK2NQ85Fc&NR=1&feature=endscreen
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[17:34:30] <andypugh> I didn't realise I had gone back to work and stayed logged-in
[17:35:07] <andypugh> JT-Shop: It ought to boot from the 10,04 LiveCD. 8.04 (or, specifically, the 26 kernel) can't see the Compact Flash drive
[17:35:54] <andypugh> If you turn off the splash screen it you can see it fail to find the root volume.
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[17:46:03] <gene77> Andy: puzzle: That 7mmx1.00 tap measures 7.04mm across the top of the teeth. WHat the heck size it is really?
[17:47:17] <syyl_ws> what are you using to measure?
[17:47:33] <gene77> digital caliper, dua scale
[17:47:42] <gene77> dual
[17:48:07] <syyl_ws> its a m7x1 tap :P
[17:48:11] <andypugh> Gene 7mm probbaly. It is designed to make a clearance nut, it isn't a screw.
[17:48:30] <syyl_ws> and a caliper doesnt measure to 1/100mm
[17:49:07] <andypugh> Mine does. Reasonably repeatably too.
[17:50:14] <gene77> Oh? Odd that it should be for sale at Lowes lumber yard. If zeroed with the jaws wiped clean, these do to about .01mm
[17:50:55] <syyl_ws> just my opinion ;)
[17:51:00] <andypugh> Taps will always be nominal or a bit bigger, I think. Screws are generallt smaller.
[17:51:09] <syyl_ws> if i want to go better than 0,05mm, i use a mice
[17:51:56] <syyl_ws> my m10x1 tap is 10.07
[17:52:09] <syyl_ws> measured a few seconds ago ;)
[17:52:25] <andypugh> Looking at the specs it should be nominal + H/8
[17:53:10] <syyl_ws> mh
[17:53:14] <andypugh> H = thread depth (theoretic)
[17:53:25] <gene77> So I should be able to use it for the larger portion of the screw then.
[17:53:38] <andypugh> Yes.
[17:54:02] <syyl_ws> i measured a few of my metric taps, they are all a few 1/100mm plus
[17:54:05] <andypugh> As long as you have a finer-pitch screw for the smaller diameter.
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[17:54:53] <gene77> 10-32
[17:56:36] <gene77> Right now I'm sweating making a 5/16-18 thread on the end of the extension to retain the bearling preload nut. The nut measure .277, and the bore is .247 (inches)
[17:57:52] <gene77> And my spindle is complaining about the cutting load! Running too slow.
[17:59:05] <andypugh> I guess you can't increase the speed for fear of running out of Z speed?
[17:59:22] <cpresser> andypugh: does it say "H/8" or "H8"?
[17:59:41] <andypugh> (I do feel that threading should refuse to try when it knows it can't keep up, but AFAIK it just cuts the wrong pitch at max speed)
[18:00:23] <andypugh> cpresser: H/8, it is a dimension, not a fit. Wouldn't H8 be rather right for a thread?
[18:00:36] <gene77> I'm nowhere near max, about 1.5 rps
[18:00:58] <cpresser> yet, it would. i am just looking it up.. H8 in the range of 6-10mm is +0.022mm max
[18:01:44] <andypugh> http://www.roymech.co.uk/images21/Iso_thread_5.gif
[18:02:51] <gene77> Probably about due to sharpen my single tooth, aka a cutoff knife. Keeping it wet helps
[18:04:00] <andypugh> gene77: I would run the spindle as fast as you can and still have the tool keep up, I think, to try to keep the motor nearer to design frequency. Ignore me if it isn't an induction motor.
[18:04:46] <gene77> That looks like the same drawing in my machinist #27 manual
[18:05:02] <gene77> Nope, brushed DC
[18:05:34] <gene77> With active feedback
[18:06:25] <gene77> But the halmeter says the error is quite small
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[18:18:07] <gene77> So I'm down to the last 2 or 3 thou of fine tuning this thread, so far (knock on wood, no daylight visible from inside it :)
[18:20:48] <gallenat0r> what CAM software do you guys use?
[18:22:59] <archivist> inside rear of skull
[18:23:50] <anonimas1> anyone have a price for a dot peen marking pen?
[18:23:52] <anonimas1> err head..
[18:23:53] <archivist> but working on understanding apt360
[18:24:42] <anonimas1> http://www.sic-marking.com/en/products/e8-i52-dot-peen-marking-head/ <- like that one
[18:29:33] <andypugh> No help with pricing, but another manufacturer: http://www.pryormarking.com/
[18:29:34] <archivist> gallenat0r, you need to state the type of work and machine, there is no one answer fits all
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[18:33:55] <anonimas1> i have alot of manufacturers but nobody states a price for them..
[18:34:20] <archivist> I wondered why I was getting a tingle touching the cnc, mains socket had a missing rivet for the earth connection (missing since built in 1961 probably)
[18:34:54] <archivist> they want to look at your wallet and quote a high price
[18:35:42] <anonimas1> worst case i'll design one..
[18:35:48] <anonimas1> but i'd rather buy a unit ready made.
[18:36:25] <archivist> they probably want to sell you a system not just the head
[18:36:28] <anonimas1> laser i have a quote for :D
[18:36:34] <anonimas1> well, i want a controller and a head..
[18:36:45] <archivist> and the software and...
[18:37:06] <anonimas1> they do rs232 most of them
[18:37:55] <anonimas1> laser is not a option because it's f-expensive.
[18:38:50] <anonimas1> also, i dont have a need for the speed laser offers.
[18:40:01] <jdh> how about a handheld engraver mounted on a mill/router?
[18:40:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SIC-S151004-DOT-PEEN-MARKING-MACHINE-/370622444275?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564ad1b2f3
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[18:40:56] <anonimas1> jdh: too bulky
[18:41:14] <anonimas1> jdh: it's for integrating into another machine
[18:42:43] <anonimas1> into a production run of like 40 units..
[18:43:07] <anonimas1> for now there's prototyping and I need a price per unit to see what it'll end up as
[18:43:30] <andypugh> anonimas1: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120923875696 $200 BIN
[18:43:45] <jdh> there are two of those
[18:44:37] * anonimas1 nods
[18:45:25] <anonimas1> well, need stuff that i can actually buy a series of so i dont have to re-adapt my mounts for it when i end up at production stage
[18:46:00] <anonimas1> i guess about 500$-600$ something for a new one
[18:46:06] <anonimas1> + controller ofcourse
[18:47:56] <gene77> Well, I guess I make another extension shank. I knew I was getting thin walled, but I just took my pocket knife and peeled the whole damned thread section off. Bummer.
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[18:50:30] <r00t4rd3d> make me one too
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[18:55:54] <JT-Shop> andypugh: were you able to boot from the USB drive?
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[18:59:05] <JT-Shop> I was able to get into the bios setup and make it boot from the usb
[18:59:57] <r00t4rd3d> then kernel panic and it stopped booting?
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[19:01:19] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I booted 10.04 LiveCD, but 8.04 LiveCD (LunuxCNC) won't boot.
[19:01:37] <andypugh> Or, rather, won't finish booting.
[19:01:57] <andypugh> Making it boot from USB is easy, press F11 during startup.
[19:02:04] <JT-Shop> did you get 10.04 livecd to install?
[19:02:20] <andypugh> No, the 10.04 LiveCD can't see the Flash drive.
[19:02:32] <Loetmichel> *NICE saw blade quality... cutting 10mm mild steel bar with TWO NEW blades... result: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13432 ... maybe i shouldnt buy my saw blades in the 1$ shop ;-)
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[19:02:57] <andypugh> I think we need to RTAI patch the same kernel as it was supplied with
[19:03:19] <JT-Shop> yikes
[19:03:45] <andypugh> Which is here, by the way: ftp://vxdx:[email protected]/Linux_DEMO/linux-image-2.6.30-vortex86mx_1.0_i386.deb
[19:04:18] <andypugh> From: ftp://[email protected]/vortex86dx/linux/Debian+Ubuntu_Linux_Installation_Guide.pdf
[19:04:58] <JT-Shop> seems to be installing here
[19:05:01] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Or saw frames either.
[19:05:19] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Interesting.
[19:05:42] <JT-Shop> I told it to used the unused space and install alongside 8.04
[19:05:48] <Loetmichel> andypugh: thats a "puk" saw... not the cheapest one (12 eur IIRC)
[19:06:11] <Loetmichel> but the blades are soft as chewing gum...
[19:06:51] <syyl_ws> for 12 bucks you get a full size hacksaw with a good blade ;)
[19:08:50] <Loetmichel> doesent want a full size, have that
[19:09:12] <Loetmichel> the 1500mm puk is more practical for small work
[19:09:33] <Loetmichel> but the spare blades i had bought were a BIT cheap i suppose ;.-)
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[19:14:45] <andypugh> 1500mm is small to you? What are you, a lumberjack?
[19:15:03] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Installling here now. Isn't that strange?
[19:15:36] <andypugh> I had broken 8.04 anyway, no idea what was wrong, the error windows were popping in in 2-pixel text
[19:16:29] <andypugh> Must be very odd being Mr Debian, and seeing the name everywhere, after Ian and Deb split up..
[19:16:51] <JT-Shop> 85% done here
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[19:29:06] <JT-Shop> I get insmod: error inserting '/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/rtai_hal.co' -1 Operation not permitted when running the latency test
[19:29:09] <Loetmichel> 150mm
[19:29:40] <andypugh> Yeah. Schooner things that is a LAPIC error. What does it say in dmesg?
[19:31:22] <mcenter> Loetmichel: I like this hacksaw blades. http://www.starrett.com/saws/saws-hand-tool-products/band-saw-blades/power-hacksaw-blades/redstripe-solid-hss
[19:32:38] <andypugh> I don't think you want solid HSS for a hand saw though. I have had good results with Eclipse and Bahco plades
[19:32:40] <JT-Shop> lost my lan connection on it
[19:32:50] <andypugh> Yes, he did mention that
[19:34:35] <Loetmichel> mcenter: they are fpor power hacksaw, am i right?
[19:35:43] <JT-Shop> debug http://pastebin.com/RAQW46SC
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[19:36:33] <Diony> Hi all
[19:36:36] <JT-Shop> RTAI[hal]: ERROR, LOCAL APIC CONFIGURED BUT NOT AVAILABLE/ENABLED.
[19:36:38] <andypugh> Line 13, for example, looks non-ideal
[19:37:00] <JT-Shop> and 14
[19:37:01] <mcenter> Loetmichel: After looking at the page, yes. But, I have bought the "red stripe" blades for hand hacksaws. Solid HSS. Must hold work securely, but they will cut grade nine bolts all day.
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[19:40:38] <tjb1> Heh 80/20 emails me and calls me to see if I got a catalog...nope
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[19:44:25] <skunkworks> JT-Shop, what machine is this?
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[19:45:26] <Diony> I encountered some proble with gladeVCP EMC_stat widget. It doesn't seems to send call backs. Whan loaded my glade VCP wrote on the console : "(gladevcp:2308): libglade-WARNING **: Expected <glade-interface>. Got <interface>.(gladevcp:2308): libglade-WARNING **: did not finish in PARSER_FINISH state". The Python file is here (shorted version for test) : http://pastebin.com/H3f3atf3 and the ui file (short also) is here : http://paste
[19:45:26] <Diony> bin.com/r5HzGQnP. Thank you in advance!
[19:45:45] <Diony> UI file : http://pastebin.com/r5HzGQnP
[19:47:19] <Diony> It's just tests files, the ui has 1 label, 1 button, and 1 EMC_stat
[19:48:25] <Diony> in the python file just 3 handlers, the button one's works well but non of the two EMC_stat work
[19:48:29] <Diony> works
[19:49:27] <Diony> I missed somethink?
[19:50:18] <andypugh> Don't look at me, I know nothing.
[19:51:15] <Diony> Hi andypugh, don't worry I don't see at you ;) (particulary)
[19:51:58] <Diony> You helped me many times yet :)
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[19:52:06] <andypugh> Just trying to make it more obvious that no-reply might mean no answers, rather than being ignored
[19:52:31] <Diony> yes I begin to understand how works IRC
[19:52:42] <Diony> no problem with that
[19:53:13] <gene77> Hey guys, the man page for g83 does not explain what L is, can it be ignored for drilling an axial thru-hole on a lathe??
[19:53:16] <Diony> And people are not here to solve all my problems ;)
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[19:55:03] <cradek> gene77: look up a ways to section 35.3
[19:55:19] <cradek> since L is common for all cycles, it's documented up above with the other common cycle stuff
[19:55:35] <cradek> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/gcode/gcode.html#_repeat_cycle
[19:56:19] <gene77> as in G83 z-2.7 r0.0 q0.01?, I backed it out to cut air, working as advertised..
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[20:02:38] <Diony> curiously, I get the warnings even if I delete the EMC_Stat widget. The button is still working.
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[20:07:42] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/zl1PO.jpg
[20:07:46] <r00t4rd3d> no more mdf
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[20:07:48] <r00t4rd3d> :)
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[20:15:07] <Diony> r00t4rd3d: what is the work sizes?
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[20:45:32] <andypugh> The problem with Ricky_a is knowing what question they are actually asking.
[20:45:33] <Anon2259> hello all,
[20:45:41] <andypugh> Hi
[20:46:17] <Anon2259> after many upgrades, I have the same problem. G2 vs G3, one gives me faceted curves and the other doesnt'
[20:46:18] <Diony> hi
[20:46:42] <andypugh> That's just strange!
[20:46:57] <Anon2259> I was running 2.26(maybe) and upgraded to the latest with tons of problems but it is all working, except same problem
[20:47:11] <Anon2259> it is almost like the interpolation of g2 vs g3 are different
[20:47:32] <andypugh> Stepper machine?
[20:47:33] <Anon2259> ran multiple programs, etc.
[20:47:38] <Anon2259> servo machine
[20:48:05] <cpresser> can you see the 'line segments' in the backplot?
[20:48:05] <andypugh> Full circles?
[20:48:23] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:48:27] <Anon2259> arcs, and as far as the backplot, that is a good question.
[20:48:38] <Anon2259> let me go look
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[20:49:06] <r00t4rd3d> Diony, like 12x30
[20:49:18] <cpresser> also, i would try different feed-rates
[20:49:32] <andypugh> I could almost understand it if it was particular quadrants, rather than particular rotation directions.
[20:50:03] <archivist> friction/stiction and servo tuning
[20:50:16] <andypugh> Could it be backlash? The difference between climb-milling and conventional millling?
[20:50:17] <archivist> friction can be directional
[20:50:20] <cradek> andypugh: you are probably climb milling in one of the directions. there are no segments in the output of arcs.
[20:50:29] <cradek> Anon2259: ^
[20:50:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/diy-cnc_router_table_machines/158386-want_buy_cnc_router_4x8.html
[20:51:00] <cradek> upgrading software will not change this, it is a basic machining problem
[20:51:05] <archivist> tool resonance too
[20:51:07] <Anon2259> the program looks smooth in the backplot.
[20:51:24] <cradek> the motion at the motors IS smooth
[20:51:26] <Anon2259> the program cuts one direction (climb) then the other (conventional)
[20:51:30] <Diony> r00t4rd3d: thx, do you plan to replace all wood parts by aluminium ones?
[20:51:41] <andypugh> Anon2259: The test might be to cut an internal and external surface clockwise and an internal and external surface anticlockwise, but I go for climb/conventional, I think
[20:52:12] <Anon2259> so it does the finish pass in climb milling all around the part. it doesnt change to conventional
[20:52:39] <r00t4rd3d> Diony, nah, i will probably just leave it as is. I might buy a aluminum z axis from CarveOne though.
[20:53:17] <Anon2259> the code is very simple, just a bunch of g2/g3 prismatic moves. imaging a trapezoid with rounded corners and the flats are inside arcs. so there are no straight lines on the part.
[20:54:12] <Anon2259> I don't think it is resonance since it happens at all speeds and feeds. I was running the most recent part at 20ipm and 4k rpm and it did it. Aluminum
[20:54:15] <andypugh> So, G2 "flats" and G3 corners?
[20:54:38] <Anon2259> it depends on the side as to the inside flats.
[20:54:53] <Anon2259> and the direction the cutter is going (climb vs conventional)
[20:54:57] <r00t4rd3d> carveone makes these sweet little z axis:
[20:54:58] <cradek> if you cut inside vs outside, I'd expect it to swap
[20:54:58] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/fiwA0.jpg
[20:55:03] <cradek> yes exactly
[20:55:24] <Anon2259> but the finish pass is only one way. I suspect it would take it out if I did a spring pass contra direction
[20:55:27] <archivist> I bet it sounds different too
[20:56:20] <Anon2259> one side of the part is smooth and the other faceted. I do have a little backlash, like .004 and I am running backlash comp.
[20:56:34] <Anon2259> the part hits the size to 3 zeros
[20:56:37] <cradek> once you have facets, it may be hard to get rid of them. try changing feed, speed, tool number of flute, etc
[20:56:45] <andypugh> You should probably ask here before trying to fix problems with an upgrade. I don't think the motion controller code has been touched for a year or so.
[20:57:27] <Anon2259> it isn't only one part. this started with a part a few months ago, I posted the picture, decided to upgrade all the software before I messed with it, ran more parts, different programs and have the same problemo
[20:57:29] <cradek> if you have .004 of backlash you should probably never ever climb mill
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[20:57:54] <archivist> I would think 4 thou backlash in a servo system is a lot
[20:57:57] <Anon2259> I would agree but I am running zig-zag and it cleans it up
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[20:58:29] <cradek> Anon2259: what's your exact question for us? I haven't read everything.
[20:58:58] <Anon2259> cradek, the exact question is there a difference in interpolation of g2 vs g3 and can it be changed and/or set
[20:59:10] <cradek> Anon2259: ok, the answer is no
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[20:59:42] <Anon2259> I was thinking about turning off circular interpolation in my cam system and seeing if the problem goes away. I would think it would.
[21:00:07] <Anon2259> the code would be huge since I can tell it to interpolate to .00001 of an arc
[21:00:17] <cradek> if you use G1 instead of G2/G3 you will get motion at the motors that is less round
[21:00:23] <andypugh> And that will tend to make LinuxCNC really slow
[21:00:38] <cradek> yes that will not help you
[21:01:15] <Anon2259> that is what I am wondering. I can tell it to spit out a ton of G!'s and it would interpolate to 5 zeros
[21:01:48] <andypugh> Is G3 faceted on both internal and external surfaces, or does it vary between internal and external?
[21:01:52] <cradek> that gcode would run very slowly, which may change your cut due to feed rate being lower, but otherwise it would be the same
[21:02:03] <skunkworks> I have seen similar faciting from dull cutters...
[21:02:21] <cradek> skunkworks: yes or just unlucky feed/speed combination
[21:02:26] <skunkworks> yes
[21:02:33] <cradek> in which case you just tweak the overrides until it sounds better
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[21:03:06] <Anon2259> it is hard to tell exactly which one is doing it, g2 or g3, but I was cutting brass with one cutter and aluminum with the other, feeds and speeds were different in both, depth of cut, rpm all kids of variables
[21:03:28] <cradek> you need to have fewer variables until you understand the problem
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[21:03:40] <Anon2259> it doesn't sound like chatter at all, runs as smooth as a grear head mill can
[21:04:13] <archivist> squeal ?
[21:04:42] <Anon2259> no squeal
[21:04:47] <Anon2259> no chatter
[21:05:06] <Anon2259> this is cncjerry by the way, my id didn't take
[21:05:32] <archivist> with the backlash I wonder if the servo loop is hunting
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[21:05:51] <toastydeath> a really, really common thing that gives the appearance of faceting is chip recutting.
[21:06:05] <Anon2259> they hunt a little but I don't have them that tight and if that was the case, it wouldn't be so consistent. I have it on 4 parts, all the same
[21:06:54] <Anon2259> at least it is consistent
[21:08:28] <cradek> is this hss on aluminum? what's your surface speed?
[21:08:33] <Anon2259> I can't figure it out. driving me crazy. the facets are probably less than my backlash.
[21:09:01] <Anon2259> this is hss or carbide on aluminum or brass. take your pick. one of the curves will always have facets.
[21:09:17] <r00t4rd3d> how many volts can speaker wire handle? The stuff like this:
[21:09:17] <r00t4rd3d> http://image.made-in-china.com/4f0j00ACQEbzngChcq/Speaker-Wire-Bare-Copper-Wire-BC-.jpg
[21:09:23] <cradek> what surface speed?
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[21:10:12] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: 1,000,000
[21:10:46] <Anon2259> I didn't calculate the surface speed but I was running 1970 rpm at 90 hz so that would be 2,955 rpm and 20ipm with a 4 flute .375 end mill but I had also run it with a 2 flute with heavier chip load but the same results
[21:11:15] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: @ 0.0000000000000001A
[21:11:25] <Anon2259> the finish pass is 10ipm at the same rpm
[21:11:35] <cradek> are you slotting (cutting on both sides of the tool at once)?
[21:11:38] <r00t4rd3d> 18v should be fine right?
[21:11:55] <tjb1> Its amperage that matters r00t4rd3d
[21:12:00] <Anon2259> since the facets aren't stepped at all I assume the finish pass of .010 is cutting the facets
[21:12:08] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: it's not the voltage, it's the amperage you have tobe concerned with
[21:12:32] <Anon2259> and yes, there is an open side on the cuts and the finish would have .01 gap on the non-part side
[21:12:34] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: just google wire charts
[21:13:14] <r00t4rd3d> well its a 24v 15a power supply but I have it turned down to 18v, not sure what the amps are.
[21:13:18] <cradek> so while finishing, you're deep in a slot, but there's a tiny bit of clearance on the waste side? do I understand right?
[21:13:44] <Anon2259> speaker wire is the largest rip-off there is, speaking as an audiophile who read stereophile for 20yrs
[21:14:09] <r00t4rd3d> i had a roll for other purposes
[21:14:11] <Anon2259> no, while finishing there is a large slot since there were two passes
[21:14:14] <Jymmm> Anon2259: But you're just a freak, so that doens't count =)
[21:14:38] <cradek> oh, ok
[21:14:46] <cradek> is your finish pass climb or conventional?
[21:15:04] <Jymmm> Anon2259: Don't make me take away your McIntosh amps now =)
[21:15:26] <Anon2259> finish was climb
[21:15:49] <cradek> when you change it to conventional does it change?
[21:16:19] <Anon2259> I don't know. I never have time to fully analyze the problem, just time to complain :-)
[21:16:33] <Jymmm> lol
[21:16:37] <cradek> well then, that's very silly
[21:16:42] <cradek> bbl
[21:16:50] <Anon2259> I ran 4 parts, all came out the same. one or two I had cranked up a little in inches per minute but the finish was all the same.
[21:18:27] <Anon2259> logically, having been in this for a very long time, it looks like there is a difference in interpolation between g2 and g3 with or without CV vs exact stop and maybe backlash comp. but the backlash bump at the axis change on this machine is almost invisible.
[21:19:14] <Anon2259> If I cut a circle it is almost perfectly round, to the limit of my ability to measure it.
[21:19:41] <Anon2259> if I cut a 2.000" box with rounded corners, it will come out 2.000", nearly perfect
[21:22:01] <Jymmm> Heh. get a 1/2" SS rod. make a 0.500" hole and a 0.505" hole, see how it fits in both =)
[21:22:27] <Anon2259> the .005 will be loose
[21:22:55] <Jymmm> a 1/2" rod will NOT fit in a 1/2" hole
[21:23:06] <Anon2259> I cut .3125 holes yesterday and they measured to .3123 on the short side and .3126 on the long.
[21:23:36] <Anon2259> my .5 stainless is .500" I would need to cut it .002 over
[21:23:57] <Anon2259> .001 all around or the aluminum will gall and make a mess
[21:24:28] <Anon2259> the .3125 hole was made with a 1/4" known ball end mill plung cut helically.
[21:24:42] <Anon2259> I couldn't believe how well it worked. I was going to drill them
[21:25:01] <tjb1> How I hate powdercoating...
[21:25:53] <Anon2259> I am going to cut another part this evening and try taking out the g2/g3 to see what happens. I'll report back tomorrow.
[21:27:53] <Anon2259> one other wierd thing I noticed, the program enters the part on an arc then immediately makes a left corner followed by an inner corner for the flat. the program runs one direction then the other. On the counter clockwise cut, it pauses at that first arc transistion, on the clockwise it doesn't
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[21:28:50] <Anon2259> even with backlash turned on or off, the machine never pauses, just keeps sailing along at pretty much constant speed.
[21:29:18] <Anon2259> for some reason it wants to pause at that spot. go figure.
[21:29:41] <Anon2259> it is running the same cut path on the return and it doesn't pause.
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[21:30:17] <Anon2259> stuff like this drives me crazy since any change in velocity changes the finish and I can't find any reason for it to pause.
[21:30:18] <andypugh> The g-code looks the same?
[21:30:32] <Anon2259> the same to the extent the arc are reversed.
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[21:31:08] <Anon2259> anyway, thanks for listening.
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[21:31:58] <andypugh> You might have a sharp corner in one direction, and LinuxCNC is trying to follow it exactly
[21:32:21] <andypugh> It need not be a very big corner, just a sharp one.
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[21:34:06] <andypugh> Anyone know where I might find the LinuxCNC liveCD kernel sources?
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[21:35:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb
[21:35:34] <r00t4rd3d> andypugh, in the software finder
[21:35:38] <r00t4rd3d> what ever its called
[21:36:01] <r00t4rd3d> do uname -a the search for the numbers
[21:36:05] <r00t4rd3d> then*
[21:36:26] <r00t4rd3d> they are called header files
[21:36:37] <andypugh> Hmm, yes, but the LinuxCNC one is patched..
[21:36:49] <WillenCMD> If anyone would like to shed some light on a few questions i have about mosfets i would greatly appreciate it.
[21:36:52] <r00t4rd3d> dont matter, the sources still are available
[21:36:55] <andypugh> No, I have the header files. I think the source is different
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[21:38:17] <andypugh> Jymmm: I don't think that the kernels are there
[21:38:35] <Jymmm> andypugh: should give ref to them I'd think.
[21:38:52] <cpresser> WillenCMD: just ask.. perhaps someone will know the answer
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[21:41:11] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: You were correct
[21:42:08] <r00t4rd3d> didnt feel like arguing :)
[21:42:30] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: you did too!
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[21:45:07] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: This is "interesting"... http://forums.azbilliards.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=197842&stc=1&d=1317500700
[21:46:14] <Jymmm> It's suppose to be for hinges, but I can think of another "interesting" use for it.
[21:47:24] <r00t4rd3d> whats so "interesting" about a punch?
[21:47:39] <cpresser> its automatic, you dont need a hammer
[21:47:44] <r00t4rd3d> oh
[21:47:53] <Jymmm> the sleeve specifically
[21:48:09] <Jymmm> the adjustable depth sleeve
[21:48:31] <WillenCMD> JT-Shop: When will the BLDC be in?
[21:48:53] <Jymmm> s/centerpunch/rimpunch/
[21:49:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-STARRETT-AUTOMATIC-PUNCH-18-A-in-original-Starrett-Box-/221071147233?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3378de00e1
[21:50:14] <Jymmm> thats not 819
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[21:51:02] <r00t4rd3d> its older
[21:51:38] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/starrett819automaticself-centeringpunch.aspx
[21:51:40] <r00t4rd3d> 35 bucks
[21:53:59] <andypugh> I have a couple of Starret auto punches (not self-centring though) and they are properly useful.
[21:54:29] <andypugh> r00t4rd3d: Interesting thing about the linux-sources. It installs an empty folder.
[21:54:32] <JT-Shop> WillenCMD: it came in last week
[21:55:07] <Jymmm> I guess you didn't catch the hint I was implying
[21:55:54] <Jymmm> I guess you guys didn't catch the hint I was implying
[21:57:23] <Jymmm> Hint ---> s/centerpunch/rimpunch/
[21:57:47] <Tom_itx> Jymmm those are very handy for carrying in your glove box in case of emergency
[21:58:46] <Tom_itx> mine needs a new tip it's so old
[21:59:06] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: I have one of these on my keychain http://www.amazon.com/ResQMe-Escape-Tool-Made-Black/dp/B000IE0EZO/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1342475911&sr=8-11&keywords=emergency+glass+break
[21:59:28] <Jymmm> it has a breakaway clip on it
[21:59:54] <Tom_itx> the punch works
[22:00:12] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: doens't do any good in the glovebox though
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[22:00:25] <Tom_itx> go try it in the center of your windshield
[22:00:45] <Jymmm> *sigh*
[22:01:12] <Jymmm> Yes, I know. When I worked as a locksmith we always carried them when ppl locked their kids in the car.
[22:02:37] <Tom_itx> so design a 1/3 size one with a hoop on the end and market it for women's keychains
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[22:03:17] <Jymmm> the one I linked to IS, and has a seatbelt cutter too
[22:03:39] <Tom_itx> i thought it was a letter opener :D
[22:03:52] <Jymmm> its both
[22:04:38] <Tom_itx> i wonder how many have actually been used in a panic situation
[22:09:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: is there anything else I can try with the yellow box?
[22:09:41] <Nick001-Shop> Is there an actual ini & hal file for etch-servo around. Haven't been able to find one yet. Be nice not to fry something. Also, can a spindle speed be added for taping a hole and x controlling slide in & out for solid taping?
[22:10:14] <JT-Shop> in the sample files
[22:10:33] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: try? as in testing what it can do?
[22:10:50] <Loetmichel> hmm, i would never smash a side window to get my hypothetical kid out of the locked car...
[22:11:08] <Loetmichel> i would say to him/her to lift the locking pin
[22:11:19] <Nick001-Shop> found that one- looking for an actual working sample
[22:11:28] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: if the kid is passed out from the heat?
[22:11:33] <andypugh> JT-Shop: All the usual stuff.
[22:11:37] <Loetmichel> or, if to young for that: get some cord and open the door destruction free
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[22:11:51] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel someone i know was in a car that was on fire with electric locks and no knobs. the electric system failed in the locked position. there was no other option
[22:11:52] <andypugh> Compiling the ethernet driver would be handy.
[22:11:54] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: how can THAT happen?
[22:12:20] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The windows rolled up in the summer
[22:12:23] <JT-Shop> yea, I noticed quite a bit of other files on the CD for the wrong model
[22:12:31] <Loetmichel> Tom_itx: thats why there is virtually NO car over here in germany with no locking knobs
[22:12:49] <Tom_itx> Loetmichel i don't think there are here anymore either
[22:12:57] <Loetmichel> and you cant get a car street leegal in germany without at least ONE mechanical lock from the outside
[22:13:00] <Tom_itx> it was an older model
[22:13:51] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: even thoug: who leaves a kid unattended in his car, especially in the heat of the day?
[22:13:58] <Loetmichel> so again: how can this happen?
[22:14:02] <Loetmichel> though
[22:14:06] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: Parents are stupid. They leave their kids in a locked car to go into the store for just a moment. I'd break the window and dial 911
[22:14:24] <Tom_itx> it happens every summer
[22:14:47] <Loetmichel> i wouldnt call 911, i would call child support.
[22:14:51] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: The 911 wasn't for medical, but for the cops to nail the parents for child endangerment.
[22:14:54] <Tom_itx> they get arrested and the kids taken to child services too
[22:15:18] <Loetmichel> parents who do this should have their kids removed and them given to more responsible parents
[22:15:36] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: ok then
[22:15:38] <andypugh> I would consider it a perfectly resonable way to stop the kids getting soaked given the summer we are having.
[22:16:01] <JT-Shop> should I post the dmesg to the forum?
[22:16:19] <andypugh> We are all seeing the same thing, I think
[22:16:26] <JT-Shop> ok
[22:16:31] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: My Boss was on the city counsel at the time and that's was the SOP for such things.
[22:16:32] <Loetmichel> andypugh: only if the kids are old enough to be reasoned with. "i'l be back in five minutes, if not: open the doors and search a shady place!
[22:16:41] <andypugh> But it might prompt a response from Anthony
[22:16:57] <JT-Shop> ok
[22:17:08] <Loetmichel> Jymmm: sop?
[22:17:29] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: SOP == Standard Operating Procedure
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[22:17:50] <Loetmichel> anyways: why have the kids come with you to the grocery tore
[22:17:52] <Loetmichel> store
[22:18:08] <Loetmichel> or, if they are there: why not take them inside?
[22:18:30] <Jymmm> Loetmichel: first thign I said... "Parents are stupid"
[22:18:45] <Loetmichel> i am not the guy who would supervise his kids every wake moment, but to lock a kid in the dar is bad judgement at best...
[22:19:41] <Loetmichel> i made my first driving tryouts with 5 years, stolen the keys from my mom... so i would NEVER let a kid around this age ++ in the car alone ;-)
[22:19:44] <JT-Shop> best to lock them in the trunk so they stay in the shade and out of trouble
[22:20:01] <Loetmichel> JT-Shop: harhar... bad boy!
[22:20:17] <Jymmm> JT-Shop: duct taped too
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[22:21:51] <Tom_itx> yet another use for duct tape
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[22:23:57] <Jymmm> cable ties are easier, but they get the fun of pulling out arm hair when removeing the duct tape
[22:27:09] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop how did your glade demo end up?
[22:27:33] <JT-Shop> I got it mostly sorted out, now working on understanding signals
[22:27:52] <Tom_itx> are the signals interfaced the same as halui?
[22:28:04] <JT-Shop> the gtk.builder is the latest way to build the gui from the xml file
[22:28:33] <Tom_itx> is glade a better interface?
[22:28:42] <JT-Shop> I'm not even working on a linuxcnc iterface just a standalone one to get the basic understanding of how glade an python work
[22:28:48] <Tom_itx> i know
[22:29:18] <JT-Shop> glade is a RAD that uses GTK and glade3 is pretty good afaict
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[22:30:15] <Tom_itx> when you load a glade add on does it load to the right of the screen like the halui does?
[22:30:31] <Tom_itx> or is it more of an axis replacement tool?
[22:30:42] <JT-Shop> it can be anything you want iirc
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[22:57:25] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/694850905/the-desktop-ballista-shoot-toothpicks-into-the-anc
[22:57:31] <r00t4rd3d> who is the cannon nut again?
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[23:02:51] <andypugh> It's JT, and he has already built a full-size ballista
[23:05:33] <JT-Shop> you calling me a nut? http://www.gnipsel.com/ballista/videos/test-fire-1.mov
[23:13:24] <r00t4rd3d> hey i own a cannon also
[23:15:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnts4OZ75vc&feature=plcp
[23:15:57] <r00t4rd3d> not my video but the same one i have
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[23:29:31] <JT-Shop> yep, I remember
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