#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-02

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[00:00:00] <Valen> andypugh: there is just barely enough room for a pair of 805 packages
[00:00:35] <Valen> I want to use the mesa toolchain for the prototypes, I plan on rolling a custom avr per pin setup for the 49 motor package
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[00:01:42] <andypugh> Can you squeeze this in? It's a 2-channel photo-interrupter: http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/photointerrupter/7103825/
[00:02:48] <Valen> sure thats 2 ch?
[00:03:05] <PCW> yep its 2
[00:03:07] <andypugh> Yes
[00:03:18] <Valen> ahh right you are
[00:03:37] <andypugh> There are even smaller reflective style ones, but they seem fussy about target.
[00:03:58] <Valen> I'm not sure, but i'll find out, I'd much rather off the shelf it
[00:04:11] <Valen> don't spose they come with code wheels?
[00:04:50] <andypugh> Can you use the magnetic sensors on the end axis?
[00:05:07] <Valen> no, the motors are all single ended
[00:05:20] <Valen> and theres not enough room on the driven end
[00:05:35] <Valen> i would have done that in a heartbeat lol
[00:05:45] <andypugh> DC motors, or brushless?
[00:05:49] <Valen> dc
[00:06:09] <andypugh> But I was meaning embed a little magnet in the end wheel.
[00:06:22] <Valen> hmm interesting
[00:06:45] <andypugh> http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0d59/0900766b80d59dc6.pdf
[00:06:47] <PCW> with 1000/1 gearing 1 PPR may be enough
[00:06:49] <Valen> I can get a DC gearhead motor in this size for $20, for brushless its like $200 at least from my regular components
[00:07:36] <andypugh> That ams chip is a bit big.
[00:07:57] <Valen> it also needs to be on center and fairly close as i recall
[00:09:04] <Valen> hmm, open loop would suffice for all this, if i could get a cheap brushless or super mini stepper, then all this goes away
[00:09:59] <andypugh> I am using these, and they are proper tiny, but fussy about target http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-encoders/7160604/
[00:10:27] <andypugh> Ideally you would put a magnetic pattern in the edge of the wheel and sense it with a magenetic hall encoder sensor.
[00:10:39] <andypugh> But...
[00:10:43] <Valen> bit much work for what we are doing
[00:11:03] <Valen> although with 50 of them i spose heating a bit of iron wouldn't be insane to do
[00:11:38] <andypugh> If you take the output of an encoder in counter mode, pass it through a ddt component, then multiply the output by the direction, then you probably get what you need.
[00:12:17] <Valen> well that one you just posted looks pretty good
[00:12:33] <Valen> everything we are doing is CnCed so pointing shouldn't be too much of an issue
[00:12:43] <Valen> if it solves the other problems then i'm for it
[00:13:03] <Valen> where are you getting the codewheels from?
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[00:13:23] <andypugh> Laser cut by a stencil maker
[00:13:48] <Valen> what are you making out of curiosity?
[00:14:02] <andypugh> A hollow-shaft servo
[00:14:20] <Valen> for what?
[00:14:40] <Valen> i mean hobby or 5Kw milling spindle ;->
[00:14:48] <andypugh> These guys made my encoder wheels: http://www.sparkslaser.com/Sparks_Laser_Services.html
[00:14:56] <andypugh> Valen: Hobby
[00:15:02] <Valen> Al?
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[00:15:57] <r00t-Shed> :D
[00:16:05] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/108164504656404380542/CNCUnsorted#5761456633570778562
[00:16:13] <andypugh> You can see the detector there
[00:16:25] <Valen> how fussy is fussy?
[00:16:45] <andypugh> It needs to be really really shiny, and have holes in it
[00:17:26] <andypugh> You need holes through the wheel, I think.
[00:17:32] <Valen> polished Al or i spose stainless
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[00:17:47] <andypugh> And any sensor you get will limit your wheel width
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[00:19:21] <Valen> I'm still liking that reflective encoder you have there
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[00:20:34] <andypugh> I don't see how you can use it on your wheels though.
[00:20:47] <Valen> make new wheels
[00:20:51] <Valen> oh hang on
[00:21:13] <Valen> see http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/pin/CCW%203%20backs%20removed%20labeled.jpg
[00:21:17] <andypugh> The wheels have to interface with people as wellas with the sensor
[00:21:31] <Valen> the sensor is on the motor shaft itself
[00:21:51] <andypugh> Ah, OK.
[00:21:53] <Valen> you can see the "code wheel" as the red disk on the end of the motor
[00:22:04] <Valen> the same setup is used at the bottom motor
[00:22:14] <andypugh> How clever do you want to get?
[00:22:26] <Valen> simple and reliable
[00:22:34] <andypugh> There is this tiny encoder that I invented..
[00:22:51] <Valen> uh huh...... ;->
[00:23:16] <andypugh> You take a shaft and machine half away in 2 places with a 90 degree rotation.
[00:23:36] <andypugh> You then shine leds past the shafts.
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[00:24:16] <andypugh> You get two varying outputs, with a 90 degree shift, just like a resolver. And you solve for position using the same method.
[00:24:45] <andypugh> I had that working on a 3mm shaft in a 5mm housing.
[00:24:48] <Valen> I'm trying to stay away from the analog domain if i can
[00:24:50] <PCW> with a 1000/1 gear box 4 counts/rev is likely OK
[00:25:03] <andypugh> (but the software guys couldn't figure it out at the time)
[00:25:15] <PCW> thats less than .1 degree
[00:25:16] <Valen> i don't actually have access to the motor shaft, i'm coming off the end of the gearbox
[00:25:29] <PCW> Oh
[00:25:48] <Valen> nothing is "good" about this whole thing lol
[00:26:05] <Valen> unless somebody knows a source for tiny dual shaft motors?
[00:26:15] <andypugh> I would say sense commutation spikes.
[00:26:20] <PCW> are any of the magnetic sensors small enough?
[00:26:44] <Valen> the problem is they generally need to be on axis
[00:26:54] <andypugh> Codestrip.
[00:27:14] <Valen> magnetic code strip?
[00:27:19] <andypugh> yes
[00:27:41] <Valen> keep in mind this whole thing fits in something the size of your thumb
[00:27:51] <andypugh> Aye.
[00:28:15] <PCW> the 3 mm sensor is to big?
[00:28:27] <PCW> too
[00:28:29] <andypugh> Wrap the wheels in casette tape. Record a code pattern. Sense with {magic}
[00:28:46] <Valen> which one PCW? the photo interrupter or the reflective encoder?
[00:28:59] <PCW> the interrupter
[00:29:13] <Valen> it could be, I'll have to pass it to the mechanical guy
[00:29:28] <Valen> but worst case the reflective one looks good
[00:29:35] <Valen> and both give quadrature outputs
[00:29:43] <Valen> just need to find somebody to make a code wheel
[00:29:50] <andypugh> Tape is dirt cheap: http://www.machine-dro.co.uk/high-accuracy-magnetic-linear-tape.html
[00:30:02] <andypugh> Then you just need two tiny little hall sensors.
[00:31:37] <Valen> more screwing about than using either of those optical sensors methinks
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[00:32:30] <andypugh> How does the wheel motor rotate the wheel? Fricton drive?
[00:32:39] <Valen> bevel gear
[00:33:05] <andypugh> What's the bevel gear made of?
[00:33:09] <Valen> plastic
[00:33:49] <Valen> you can see it http://www.vapourforge.com/jake/temp/pin/CCW%20top%20back%20removed%20labled.jpg
[00:34:21] <andypugh> What diameter do you think you have for a codewheel>
[00:34:22] <andypugh> ?
[00:34:42] <Valen> I'll be estimating from the picture lol
[00:34:59] <Valen> looks like a bit over 6mm ;->
[00:35:55] <andypugh> That's really rather tight for the reflective sensor. But it looks like you could slot the body out for clearance?
[00:36:24] <Valen> its all offset to one side to get the drive wheel back on center
[00:37:05] <andypugh> I keep coming back to measuring commutation pulses.
[00:38:00] <andypugh> Anyway, I should be in bed
[00:38:34] <Valen> with ~100 other motors hanging off the same power supply and precious metal brushes it sounds like a tight game
[00:38:42] <PCW> what resolution do you figure you needed?
[00:39:01] <Valen> thanks for your help, I'll pass those onto the mechanical guy and see if he can fit something
[00:39:21] <PCW> 'nite Andy
[00:39:25] <andypugh> Maxxon motors?
[00:39:26] <Valen> PCW one of the problems we have with this project is there are no requirements, its all "as good as we can get"
[00:39:37] <Valen> actually a different group
[00:39:41] <andypugh> I always found them really helpful, they might have ideas.
[00:39:56] <Valen> they don't have sensors at 6mm from the factory
[00:39:59] <Valen> i have asked ;->
[00:40:13] <PCW> I notice you can get hall sensors in sot23s
[00:40:17] <andypugh> Piezo crawler onto the wheel edge?
[00:40:56] <Valen> sounds rather expensive
[00:42:39] <PCW> The linear magnetic sensors would give you fairly good resolution but I think the chips are big
[00:43:01] <PCW> and ic-haus is always offline
[00:43:50] <Valen> the problem i have with magnetics is the codewheel
[00:43:54] <andypugh> http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/news/fullnews.php?newsid=106
[00:44:27] <andypugh> Valen: I would look at magentising a pattern into the actual top wheel.
[00:44:38] <PCW> http://www.ams.com/eng/Products/Magnetic-Encoders/Linear-Encoders/NSE-5310
[00:44:48] <Valen> its all getting further from "the shelf" if you will
[00:45:01] <PCW> AMS is off the shelf
[00:45:59] <Valen> looking at them now
[00:46:07] <PCW> thats about 4000 counts/rev with 6mm codewheel
[00:46:16] <Valen> yeah i was just working that out
[00:46:22] <andypugh> I suspect that there is some form of piezo motor available off the shelf that would let you shring even smaller, and that would work as an open loop stepper.
[00:46:45] <Valen> probably cost more than $20 though I'd wager
[00:46:52] <Valen> the piezo motor
[00:47:00] <PCW> sorry 2000 (~9 1mm pitch pole pairs needed)
[00:47:24] <andypugh> I wouldn't bet on it, piezo is really quite cheap stuff.
[00:47:42] <andypugh> Buzzers cost pennies. Motors are rather more specialised though.
[00:48:08] <PCW> Nitinol!
[00:48:19] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric_motor
[00:48:22] <Valen> we were looking at using piezo stuff (actuators) for this in the past and they were like $100 an actuator
[00:48:29] <Valen> pcw is that muscle wire?
[00:48:46] <andypugh> USM motors are standard on camera lenses now, that has to have brought the price down.
[00:48:54] <PCW> Yeah (assumoing i spelled it right)
[00:49:01] <Valen> we also looked at that
[00:49:07] <Valen> had a whole design for it too
[00:49:27] <Valen> but to get the response speed, the wires (even in an oil bath) were like .1mm
[00:49:52] <Valen> then they decided they liked the wheel system because it didn't actually have a displacement
[00:50:34] <PCW> piezo electric (20 feet long)
[00:50:52] <Valen> looked at those too
[00:51:18] <Valen> needed something like 50:1 amplification to get enough motion from a small enough package ;->
[00:51:40] <PCW> I have a little linear piezo motor here (a inchworm)
[00:51:52] <Valen> even putting a lump of iron over the top of a grid of 6 coils but worked out we would melt the coils
[00:52:03] <andypugh> Inchworm directly on the wheel is a really attractive idea.
[00:52:28] <andypugh> How much force do you need?
[00:52:36] <Valen> "about that much"
[00:53:07] <PCW> certainly lighter and potentially cheaper (a slippy step drive)
[00:53:11] <andypugh> You could probably make a sector of a brushless motor and drive the wheel direct (embedded magents, all cast in epoxy). But you might not want to make 49. of the,
[00:53:39] <Valen> the force on that would be drastically drastically lower
[00:53:54] <Valen> they have played with a motor with a wheel on it and they liked it
[00:55:04] <PCW> the linear sensor might be usable directly for the linear axis
[00:55:18] <Valen> thats a good idea pcw
[00:55:38] <PCW> (the COB one is 2.5x3.9x.6 mm)
[00:56:37] <andypugh> If I think of anything, I will get back to you
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[01:00:51] <PCW> oops COB package is custom
[01:02:00] <PCW> how far does the wheel have to turn?
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[01:03:09] <Valen> continious rotation is desired
[01:06:35] <PCW> about to head home but Ill keep this in mind in case I get any inspiration
[01:06:41] <Valen> thanks
[01:06:54] <Valen> I'll see about stuffing those optical sensors in for the rotation
[01:07:34] <PCW> Those are cheap and should be good if they fit and have enough resolution
[01:08:07] <Valen> yeah, just need to see if they will work with that diamiter
[01:09:48] <Valen> those magnetic encoders all seem to use strontium magnets at a minimum, so magnetising up some iron looks doubtfull
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[01:22:22] <andypugh-iPhone> Valen?
[01:23:14] <andypugh-iPhone> How about an optical mouse sensor looking at the wheel?
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[02:26:31] <jp_> PCW, will the 7i73 eventually support 8bit parallel?
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[02:28:11] <pcw_home> Maybe though it seems unnecessary as almost all displays seem to support nibble mode
[02:28:44] <pcw_home> (its just something the driver chips do)
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[02:30:19] <pcw_home> Its a trivial change though it would probably need an EEPROM option to select the mode
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[02:31:05] <jp_> looking at the HD61830 data sheet from hitachi i dont see any mention of 4bit mode vs 8bit
[02:31:31] <jp_> should i just try it and see?
[02:33:23] <jp_> i was going to try and use an old robot teach pendant with it the HD61830 is the driver for the LCD
[02:33:28] <jp_> http://store.industrialcontrolrepair.com/product/fanuc-a05b2020c141-teach-pendant-rf-29120.cfm
[02:38:30] <pcw_home> Its looks close but it does not say it supports nibble mode
[02:38:32] <pcw_home> I would have to see if the protocol is identical as well (control signals look the same)
[02:38:33] <pcw_home> It may well be the the 7I73 has the 8 bit code in it as we started that way but found that all the current
[02:38:35] <pcw_home> character displays we could find worked in both modes
[02:38:54] <pcw_home> (so saved the extra pins)
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[02:40:02] <pcw_home> I think Andy found his display on Ebay and the suggested one is nice but expensive ($20 or so) from Digikey
[02:41:35] <jp_> ill try the LCD with my teensysy if it works then i see about getting the 7i73 to play with it. I have a few 4x20's kicking around as well that support 4bit.
[02:41:44] <pcw_home> (just fixed the manual since Optrex was bought out by Kyocera and the PN changed)
[02:42:10] <pcw_home> and the price went up :-(
[02:42:14] <jp_> just thought it would be neat to breath some life into these old pendants i have
[02:43:01] <pcw_home> I'll ask Gilbert about 8 bit mode its probably lurking in the source
[02:43:13] <pcw_home> (on Wednesday)
[02:43:18] <jp_> thx
[02:45:44] <jp_> pcw_home, oh one more thing is the 4x20 a limit on the 7i73 or just common size for reference?
[02:46:56] <pcw_home> Its a common (and useful) size
[02:48:01] <jp_> so larger sizes are not an issue?
[02:50:42] <pcw_home> They may be because the interfaces change (some larger panels are actually 2 controllers)
[02:51:50] <pcw_home> I think the 40X4 panels are 2x 40x2 panels for example
[02:52:07] <pcw_home> (logically)
[02:57:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/h1eIy.jpg
[02:57:26] <r00t4rd3d> a sign for a friend
[02:58:54] <r00t4rd3d> 12x3.5
[02:59:19] <pcw_home> Moose country?
[02:59:37] <r00t4rd3d> no, he is fat
[02:59:42] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[02:59:58] <r00t4rd3d> but yeah moose country too
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[03:01:22] <pcw_home> looks nice
[03:02:39] <r00t4rd3d> thx
[03:04:08] <r00t4rd3d> you can see the lines, I only did a 8% stepover with a vbit.
[03:04:21] <r00t4rd3d> but i hate waiting for 2-3%
[03:09:16] <panasync> that's why you walk away and goto sleep :)
[03:10:29] <r00t4rd3d> last time i walked away i came back to a broken motor shaft and garage full of smoke
[03:11:20] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/gJLX8.jpg
[03:12:50] <r00t4rd3d> For Sale: One used stepper, slightly used.
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[03:50:04] <panasync> well I've got 4 used steppers with 5/16" shafts for sale. odd ball shaft size. I needed eiher 3/8" or 1/4". too bad I didn't know to specify when I bought these
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[04:11:31] <r00t4rd3d> they make 5/16 couplers
[04:12:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_nkw=5%2F16&_sacat=0&_odkw=&item=330423833395&_osacat=0&_ssn=carolbrent
[04:15:26] <panasync> I needed 5/16" pulley's
[04:15:37] <panasync> 20 tooth or 22 tooth
[04:16:16] <panasync> I ended up using some copper pipe and made some split sleeve adapters for a 3/8" pulley
[04:16:46] <panasync> seems that 3/8" copper pipe is exactly 5/16" inside diameter
[04:17:45] <panasync> but I've since replaced the motors and gotten 1/4" shaft ones from good american companies instead of longs_motor in china
[04:27:57] <r00t4rd3d> "This web page at www.cnczone.com has been reported as an attack page and has been blocked based on your security preferences."
[04:28:06] <r00t4rd3d> lol
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[06:51:34] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:57:37] <oxomoxo> Hi there, first time here ..
[09:58:10] <Valen> quick lets all act alloof and stuff
[09:58:37] <Valen> ground rules are dont ask to ask a question
[09:58:47] <Valen> dont ask if somebody knows about X
[09:58:49] <Valen> just ask
[09:58:57] <Valen> also hang around if you want an answer
[09:59:05] <Valen> other than that, welcome oxomoxo ;->
[09:59:32] <oxomoxo> Thanks for welcome :D I'm trying to drive two joints on same axis
[09:59:47] <Valen> your on your own! lol
[10:00:07] <Valen> some kind of gantry machine?
[10:00:09] <oxomoxo> 've been reading about simply setting same source in stepconf but ...
[10:00:27] <oxomoxo> yep a gantry ;P
[10:00:42] <Valen> steppers?
[10:00:48] <oxomoxo> doesn't work the 'simple' way ..
[10:00:54] <oxomoxo> yep steppers
[10:01:15] <Valen> the 2 options i'm aware of are gantrykins and just setting them the same
[10:01:31] <Valen> whats not "simple" about it?
[10:02:31] <oxomoxo> tried the 'same source' in stepconf but one joint only actually responds ... is that a bob issue or is this info a
[10:02:51] <oxomoxo> known to be tricky ?
[10:02:59] <Valen> shouldn't be tricky
[10:03:16] <oxomoxo> ... mmmh ... sounds like a bob issue ?
[10:03:16] <Valen> i've never used stepconf though so i'm just feeling blindly
[10:03:34] <Valen> try changing which output your using perhaps see if it then works?
[10:03:50] <Valen> i mean, check to see if you can actually drive both motors individually
[10:04:05] <oxomoxo> I've tried various combinations of 2 joints binding but no success ...
[10:04:23] <Valen> don't bind them
[10:04:24] <oxomoxo> all motors are ok individually
[10:04:32] <Valen> driving from EMC?
[10:04:52] <Valen> IE you dont change the wiring at all (just software) and you can make them all move
[10:04:58] <oxomoxo> nope from "test this axis" in stepconf
[10:05:10] <Valen> thats still EMC then ;->
[10:05:31] <Valen> I dunno about using stepconf, I'd take a look at the ini and hal files and see what they say
[10:05:34] <oxomoxo> all motors are on independent drivers / pins and all work ok alone
[10:05:52] <Valen> unfortunatly most of the people are asleep here
[10:05:57] <Valen> what country are you in?
[10:06:51] <oxomoxo> France :D .. hehe I'll mess around for a while and will be back later with more infos (hal,ini)
[10:07:33] <Valen> pretty early there?
[10:11:09] <oxomoxo> It's noon here ;) where are you ?
[10:12:39] <Valen> sydney
[10:12:47] <Valen> if its noon there archivist may be around
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[10:32:37] <jthornton> oxomoxo, if this is say the Y axis select Y axis step and direction on the 2 pins for each motor. test this axis may not work but the configuration should run
[10:35:15] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/230612
[10:36:25] <oxomoxo> ... this is exactly what I did pin stepper 1 <- dir/step X and pin stepper 2 <- dir/step X
[10:36:30] <oxomoxo> Symptoms :
[10:37:45] <oxomoxo> (in stepconf test) stepper 1 step ok dir fail and stepper 2 step fail dir fail
[10:38:53] <jthornton> I don't understand your ascii art but test this axis may not work in stepconf
[10:39:50] <oxomoxo> whatever combination of stepper / axis .. when more than 1 stepper is fed with an axis source, test fails
[10:40:14] <oxomoxo> i'll try it out at runtime and tell ...
[10:41:52] <jthornton> I do know that it connects the pins correctly but the test this axis was not written for two steppers so the code might choke on it
[10:42:46] <oxomoxo> okok ... thanks for the info ... since it failed I didn't went thru ..
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[11:17:51] <oxomoxo> Ok guys it seems that in the end the test routine was broken ... config is running ok in linuxcnc :D
[11:18:29] <jthornton> maybe not broken but not designed to do that
[11:23:03] <oxomoxo> Thanks for sorting that out ... I'll be back when setting up gantrykin for homing the gantry correctly ;P
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[11:23:34] <pilla_> hi :)
[11:23:56] <pilla_> Really new to all of this... How do you make a CNC miller that's connected to LinuxCNC actually "stop" when it reaches home?
[11:24:35] <jthornton> how are you making it "go"?
[11:25:01] <pilla_> Machine -> home -> home x-axis, home y-axis, home z-axis? ^
[11:25:06] <pilla_> ^^
[11:25:46] <archivist> wire and configure limit switches correctly
[11:26:44] <pilla_> This is the first time I have ever seen a CNC milling machine, let alone touch it. Could you point me in the right direction to do that? ^ ^
[11:27:44] <jthornton> what happens when you home an axis?
[11:28:03] <pilla_> The machine, uh, "clicks"
[11:28:28] <pilla_> and keeps on clicking until I hit the emergency stop :)
[11:28:37] <archivist> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_homing.html
[11:28:51] <jthornton> can you pastebin your ini file?
[11:28:52] <pilla_> Ty!
[11:29:09] <pilla_> which ini file :)
[11:29:18] <archivist> I remember someone not reading from yesterday :)
[11:29:52] <jthornton> there is only one ini file per config
[11:34:43] <theos> pilla_ your name means puppy in my language :D
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[11:35:07] <pilla_> :D cute
[11:35:14] <priscilla> also, pastebin here : http://pastebin.com/NbzvngH5
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[11:36:00] <pilla_> what language? :)
[11:36:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/h1eIy.jpg
[11:36:37] <jthornton> will your axis move at 900mm/min?
[11:37:42] <pilla_> Vel = 452
[11:38:07] <jthornton> MAX_VELOCITY = 8.48214285714
[11:38:15] <jthornton> HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 15.000000
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[11:40:26] <pilla_> My x-axis has a vel of 508.926 on maximum settings if I try to manual control it... is that OK? What you said is in my ini, right? no idea what to do/fix :)
[11:41:00] <jthornton> change HOME_SEARCH_VEL = 8 and try that
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[11:53:30] <mazafaka> What a reason machine need Homing procedure? Is it only for moves to check the encoders?
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[11:54:07] <jthornton> to set the soft limits and put the machine in a known position
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[12:05:35] <RussianKid> if you have decent limit switches itll give you a precise datum to work from
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[12:48:24] <gmouer> Is this level of quiet the norm for the linuxcnc channel? New here and wondering
[12:48:58] <jdh> it is for this time of day.
[12:49:38] <gmouer> ah, I watched for a while a few times over the last day. When is it most active?
[12:50:53] <theos> gmouer when you start talking :P
[12:51:03] <jdh> we wait for you to leave, then talk about you.
[12:51:11] <theos> that too
[12:51:49] <jdh> usually more evenings US timezones, but lots of .eu people at their 'normal' times too.
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[12:52:17] <jdh> but, if you have a question, ask... someone might answer it, check scrollback.
[12:52:25] <gmouer> been years since I played with irc, bringing back memories though, 50 people or more logged in and dead quiet
[12:53:18] <JT-Shop> 113 people waiting for your LinuxCNC question...
[12:53:46] <archivist> or actually doing something
[12:53:56] <jdh> <- working.
[12:54:04] * JT-Shop working
[12:54:46] <gmouer> figured I might learn a few things watching with the morning coffee
[12:55:14] <JT-Shop> might try reading the forum with your coffee
[12:55:28] <gmouer> lol read just about every post there
[12:55:46] <JT-Shop> speed reader
[12:56:19] <gmouer> I did find it funny that there have only been maybe 20 threads in the lathe section over 5 years or so
[12:57:19] <jdh> perhaps it works so well that nobody has problems?
[12:57:32] <Jymmm\AE> O_o
[12:57:48] <gmouer> it does work well indeed, but for newcomers the learning curve is quite steep
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[12:59:18] <gmouer> I am a mach convert, crossed over a couple months ago after getting fed up with mach lathe
[12:59:36] <jdh> I'm planning on converting a lathe when it gets colder.
[13:00:01] <jdh> which, I guess, would have been a few months ago for rochester.
[13:01:10] <gmouer> I got a 14x40 I retrofitted to mach, then a couple months ago a american-way machine came along that I could not resist. Its about identical to a omniturn GT75, the AW lathe I retrofitted using mesa boards, just finished up last week
[13:01:39] <jdh> that's a bit bigger than what I had in mind :)
[13:01:58] <gmouer> 65 yesterday, 50 today, but yes, inside hobby time is just about here
[13:02:12] <gmouer> did a 7x lathe too but sold that one
[13:02:32] <gmouer> also did a bridgeport V2E3 mach retrofit
[13:02:33] <jdh> got any writeup or anything on the 7x?
[13:03:07] <JT-Shop> gmouer: are you using ngcgui with your lathe?
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[13:03:26] <gmouer> no, the 7x was a radical retro, linear rails/ground screws/ worked great
[13:04:01] <gmouer> no, have not used ngcgui yet, but a friend I dragged to linuxcnc is using it and loves it
[13:04:25] <JT-Shop> most of my subs are here http://gnipsel.com/shop/hardinge/hardinge.xhtml
[13:05:38] <gmouer> oh.... Jt is BigJohnT ! your subs are a must have from what I have seen. They are next on the list as soon as I get some tool holders made up
[13:06:03] <jthornton> this is me too
[13:06:29] <gmouer> read your whole webpage too LOL, took special note of the BP 308 that fits through a garage door
[13:07:45] <jthornton> it's fixing to come out of the garage this week and move over to the shop
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[13:08:45] <gmouer> your posts have been a big help in the learning curve, thanks much John
[13:09:01] <jthornton> your welcome
[13:09:26] <skunkworks> gmouer, how is the virtual tach working?
[13:10:03] <gmouer> hi Sam, it seems to work great. I halscope tuned the servos over the weekend, had done a prior coarse tune before
[13:12:45] <skunkworks> great! tuning is still something I am not comfortable with...
[13:14:03] <gmouer> yes, there is a lot to understanding tuning. I have a few servo retrofits under my belt now so it does get a lot easier
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[13:14:37] <gmouer> I can say that linuxcnc's internal pid loops are much nicer to tune than anything I ever did in Mach3
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[13:15:18] <jthornton> tuning the BP servos was too easy the MPG made up for that
[13:16:29] <gmouer> I setup a contour shuttle pendant for jogging, that was a hoot, but worked out fantastic. Big time Hal learning experience
[13:17:00] <skunkworks> heh - jthornton did the ilowpass solve it?
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[13:17:14] <jthornton> yep, works as expected
[13:17:23] <skunkworks> gmouer, you will be making your on hal comps soon ;)
[13:17:32] <gmouer> My bridgeport is getting re-retrofitted to linuxcnc down the road also, already bought the atom computer for the job
[13:18:24] <gmouer> yea right sam, I have now learned enough to know what I don't know, which is a lot!
[13:18:32] <skunkworks> The K&T was the first real world application of servo tuning for me. Lots of help from here.
[13:19:33] <gmouer> my bridgeport was a servo machine from the factory, my 14x40 lathe I did with kelling servos, the american-way gang lathe is also a factory servo machine
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[13:21:04] <gmouer> servo tuning under linuxcnc is a much easier beast to tame than under mach3, end result is far superior
[13:21:56] <skunkworks> Great - we like to hear that. (nice having all the configureing in one place too
[13:22:04] <skunkworks> )
[13:22:59] <gmouer> well, that is not totally the case with the AW lathe, there is the velocity loop on the drive board itself, another learning point, think I got the grasp of it though
[13:23:14] <skunkworks> sure.
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[13:25:18] <gmouer> ? for bigJohn, curious why your lathe routines are all in IPM feed mode when most lathes are programmed in IPR mode?
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[13:26:28] <jthornton> easier for me to understand I assume
[13:27:22] <gmouer> just wondering, from what I have seen, it seems IPR is the norm in the lathe world.
[13:28:02] <jthornton> I have no formal training on CNC equipment so often I guess at what to do
[13:28:23] <jthornton> I didn't even think of using G95 on the lathe till you mentioned it
[13:28:29] <gmouer> your guesses are darned good too
[13:28:59] <jthornton> often the first guess is not as good as the last guess
[13:29:26] <jthornton> G95 would make it easy to control the chip depth
[13:29:42] * jthornton is off to a customer now
[13:29:52] <gmouer> I have my other lathe set up in diameter mode and IPR feed right on startup
[13:33:59] <skunkworks> I actually did IPR on the K&T when I was boring some holes.. worked great (easier for me to think - I want to take .001 per rev)
[13:35:05] <gmouer> for the lathe it seems to be the norm, as is diameter mode, It is a lot easier to relate to I found
[13:35:55] <skunkworks> that is normally how the dials are calibrate on a manual lathe...
[13:36:24] <gmouer> yes, on a manual the power feed charts are in IPR usually
[13:36:35] <skunkworks> sure
[13:38:05] <gmouer> I look forward to getting linuxcnc setup on my bridgeport. Its a ways off yet though, the other lathe is more important to get done.
[13:39:15] <gmouer> I put a servo on the knee of the bridgeport also, I send the tool length offset to the knee and do normal Z cutting moves with the quill.
[13:39:28] <gmouer> makes up for only 5" of quill travel
[13:40:15] <skunkworks> I bet it is nice to be able to thread and to IPR and css... (really though - all you would have to have done was wait for M4)
[13:40:40] <skunkworks> Neat
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[15:01:02] <mazafaka> jthornton: this machine when it's turned on and homed finds the coordinates precisely enough if the CNC-software (some weirdo in Windows 98) works OK.
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[16:39:11] <tjb1> JT-Shop: http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/222003_4391654905506_288311715_n.jpg
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[16:46:00] <BHSPiMonkey> Steppers and belt: ordered. Controller: ordered.
[16:46:11] <BHSPiMonkey> Just gotta find a power supply and a few tools...
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[16:50:46] <V0idExp> hi everyone!
[16:50:50] <V0idExp> a rapid question :)
[16:51:00] <V0idExp> does it matter if I install RT-Linux or RTAI?
[16:51:56] <V0idExp> rt-linux is kept better in synch with main linux tree... but rtai is shipped by default with Ubuntu iso downloadable from linuxcnc web site
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[16:55:32] <pcw_home> I though rt-linux was dead
[16:56:17] <gentoox_> is it not?
[16:56:28] <pcw_home> with Yodaiken moving on to bigger and better things
[16:56:33] <V0idExp> latest stable is 3.4.11
[16:56:46] <V0idExp> https://rt.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Main_Page
[16:57:01] <V0idExp> maybe we're talking about different things
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[16:58:21] <pcw_home> Ahh you're talking about rt-preempt
[16:58:39] <V0idExp> it's not suitable for linuxcnc?
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[16:59:24] <gentoox_> no, there a few articles explaining rtai vs rt-preempt
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[16:59:41] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[17:00:39] <gentoox_> I have been doing research on the differences between rtai,xenomai, and rt-preempt for a while now
[17:01:52] <V0idExp> and only rtai is supported by linuxcnc?
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[17:03:24] <pcw_home> rt-preemt is workable but has somewhat worse latency than RTAI
[17:03:26] <pcw_home> (there are a number of developers that have LinuxCNC running under rt-preemt)
[17:07:39] <V0idExp> does the main 2.5.1 tree works with rt-preempt out of the box?
[17:10:00] <pcw_home> I dont think so (you could ask micges whats needed to get it running when he's around)
[17:10:38] <pcw_home> or ask on the LinuxCNC developers list
[17:10:56] <V0idExp> ok, thank you
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[17:13:20] <tjb1> Any specialize in getting data sheets?
[17:16:18] <tjb1> Id love it if someone could find the data sheet for this IKO Linear Motion Roller Guide "LWL15C1R108"
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[17:38:28] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: did you look at pbcliniar
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[17:43:11] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: what do you exactly need the datasheet pdf?
[17:44:37] <IchGuckLive> https://ikowb01.ikont.co.jp/technicalservice/ikoc0130.php?from=html&lang=en&FLG=LWL
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[17:47:43] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: Hi B)
[17:51:53] <kb8wmc> hello sir, how have you been?
[17:51:57] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: have you kept yourself busy sir?
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[17:56:33] <IchGuckLive> kb8wmc: yes we harvested 5.000tonns of corn last 4 days
[17:56:56] <tjb1> I would like the exact dimensions for the hole pattern IchGuckLive but the website doesnt have any files
[17:56:59] <tjb1> They all fail download
[17:57:16] <IchGuckLive> oh bad
[17:57:19] <tjb1> Well none of them exist
[18:01:40] <pcw_home> Here's a song to cheer you up:
[18:01:42] <pcw_home> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEXgqsrxE4g
[18:02:09] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: you certainly have been buse
[18:03:53] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: the pitch is 40mm and the end are 20mm
[18:04:12] <tjb1> What are you talking about IchGuckLive ?
[18:04:25] <archivist> tjb1, seems to download here ok
[18:04:37] <tjb1> The datasheet for it?
[18:04:46] <tjb1> I get this - http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ikont.co.jp%2Feg%2Fcatalog%2Fpdf%2Flwl.pdf&h=JAQELinMD
[18:04:47] <IchGuckLive> yes
[18:05:01] <tjb1> The data sheet for - LWL15C1R108
[18:05:01] <IchGuckLive> https://ikowb01.ikont.co.jp/technicalservice/ikoc0130.php?from=html&lang=en&FLG=LWL
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[18:05:45] <IchGuckLive> lwl is the typ 15 is the size C1 is the edge cshape and R108 is the length
[18:05:59] <tjb1> I was here - https://ikowb01.ikont.co.jp/technicalservice/download/cad_data/dl_cad.php?from=html&language=english
[18:06:06] <tjb1> And couldnt get any CAD data...
[18:06:29] <IchGuckLive> download the LWL datasheet from the link
[18:06:56] <IchGuckLive> CAT-1552(2)E catalog number
[18:07:46] <IchGuckLive> 3td line Download colon
[18:08:48] <tjb1> Found it thanks
[18:08:52] <tjb1> Trying to find the hole size now :)
[18:10:13] <IchGuckLive> table 3.3
[18:13:04] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: 3.1 gives the same numbers
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[18:17:27] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[18:17:49] <FinboySlick> Would you guys trust this to still be accurate? http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Starrett-no-20-Master-Precision-Square-Wood-Case-6-inch-/221132539350?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item337c86c5d6
[18:18:38] <FinboySlick> (It's a heck of a bargain compared to new)
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[18:24:33] <andypugh> It's pretty easy to test a square
[18:24:56] <andypugh> It just needs to read the same both ways. (similarly with a spirit level)
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[18:25:30] <archivist> turn a precision square
[18:25:58] <cradek> the answer to your question is you should probably trust no square to be square unless you test it
[18:26:31] <FinboySlick> andypugh: Well, I plan to test it if I get it. I'm just wondering if there's a situation where a solid square like that could become inaccurate. I don't expect them to bend a whole lot.
[18:26:37] <archivist> and that one looks well used
[18:27:04] <archivist> it has been rusty at some stage
[18:27:35] <archivist> box does not look like it has lived with that square
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[18:29:13] <FinboySlick> These are supposed to have accuracy to .0001" every 6". I assume rust spots on the base could mess that up.
[18:29:13] <L84Supper> the seller even says that he made the case for it and you can see the "staining in the pics"
[18:30:02] <andypugh> Have you priced up the same thing new? You might be surprised
[18:30:18] <FinboySlick> It's listed at 286$ new.
[18:31:04] <andypugh> Really? The stainless variant is £85
[18:31:52] <FinboySlick> I think it's the 'Master Precision' bit that makes it that expensive.
[18:32:13] <FinboySlick> Their 'machinist precision' squares are way more affordable.
[18:32:44] <andypugh> And which do you need?
[18:33:08] <FinboySlick> Hehe, I'd need to lease the master one for a week? ;)
[18:33:51] <FinboySlick> I blame OCD and my mill column not being straight.
[18:34:20] <andypugh> It's almost certanly as square as you need. And it it isn't. sell it on eBay.
[18:34:21] <archivist> I rarely need that type of square to be accurate I use box squares with levels for accuracy
[18:34:43] <andypugh> But a square isn't the way to set a mill head.
[18:34:59] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I need to line up the column before the head.
[18:35:11] <FinboySlick> The travel isn't perpendicular to the table.
[18:35:20] <FinboySlick> Then I can tram.
[18:35:35] <andypugh> A cube would be better. And a dial-indicator in the chuck.
[18:35:51] <archivist> FinboySlick, this is the toy you should be able to find a cheaper one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HILGER-WATTS-8-Precision-Square-Block-Level-Machine-Level-/170707152364?pt=UK_Measuring_Tools_Levels&hash=item27bef06dec
[18:36:33] <archivist> I have a spare one by cooke troughton sims uncased
[18:37:22] <FinboySlick> andypugh: I'm interested... Obviously with a cube I could adjust both axis, since this is tightening/shimming and messing one axis is very likely to affect adjustments on the other.
[18:37:55] <archivist> about 50-100 pounds usually
[18:42:56] <FinboySlick> andypugh: My plan was to set the square on the table, attach an indicator to the head or chuck, travel along the square to adjust the travel first. Then put an indicator in the chuck and tram to the table surface to adjust the head.
[18:46:41] <tjb1> Haha Fastenal wanted $3.81 for 20 - M3x10mm SHCS, its $4 for 100 at mcmaster carr
[18:47:09] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Another win for the free market.
[18:47:29] <FinboySlick> tjb1: Fight the metric screw cartel!
[18:47:38] <tjb1> They didnt have the other bolt I wanted
[18:47:49] <tjb1> but i bet fastenal does!
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[18:49:18] <archivist> FinboySlick, before you assume too much, first measure the table for parallel and squareness to the base
[18:51:11] <archivist> remind me, what make of machine
[18:52:38] <FinboySlick> archivist: Syil X5 Speedmaster (linear rails). Indicator on the table and full travel is a single measure on both X and Y axis.
[18:52:52] <Tugge> IS somebody familiar with pcb2gcode? I'm a noob what comes for linux and I don't fully understand how to use the software via terminal. Simple step by step would be great. The software is already installed.
[18:55:40] <archivist> FinboySlick, another thing you can get is a test bar to put in the spindle, mount an indicator on the table you can test runout and if the spindle is parallel to the z rails
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[18:57:02] <FinboySlick> archivist: That's one I ought to keep in mind.
[18:57:25] <archivist> I remember..at that price you get them to fix it if you find any fault
[18:58:23] <tjb1> SOrry I bet Mcmaster has the bolt I want...
[18:58:26] <FinboySlick> archivist: I was too much of a noob to find out when I bought it (just assumed the error was me not being very good) and they're too far to do on-site service.
[18:58:56] <archivist> what error, it may be in spec
[18:59:23] <FinboySlick> archivist: As in me drilling holes and them not being exactly where I put 'em.
[18:59:57] <FinboySlick> It's very much a hobby machine for me so it really doesn't get a whole lot of use.
[19:00:24] <FinboySlick> It's sort of an outlet for my OCD ;) I'm more interested in tweaking it perfect than getting production out of it.
[19:01:25] <archivist> holes being in the wrong place could just be technique, drills wander if there is no pilot dimple
[19:01:39] <FinboySlick> archivist: Yes, that was my initial assumption.
[19:01:49] <archivist> how far out
[19:02:37] <FinboySlick> 0.003 on a #1 center drill. Appears to be exactly the same ammount each time.
[19:03:12] <archivist> their claim is 2 tenths for positional accuracy
[19:04:00] <FinboySlick> archivist: Well, I'm pretty sure it's spot on in relation to the centre drill.. Problem is my indicator is longer than the drill so it's not measured from the same Z axis.
[19:04:20] <FinboySlick> That's how I figured the Z axis is tilted.
[19:05:13] <FinboySlick> :s/the same Z axis/the same position on the Z axis/
[19:06:23] <archivist> mount an indicator in the spindle offset from its axis pointing at the table rotate , ;oser till you touch the table and set 0, then rotate, should remain at the same figure
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[19:06:45] <archivist> lower till you touch
[19:07:00] <FinboySlick> archivist: Isn't that tramming?
[19:07:37] <archivist> yes
[19:07:51] <FinboySlick> I have significant error there.
[19:08:11] <FinboySlick> But that didn't tell me if it was just the spindle being tilted or the axis itself.
[19:08:34] <FinboySlick> So I also measured travel offset on both sides of a square (to make up for square error).
[19:08:50] <FinboySlick> That gives me ~0.0035 every 4 inches of Z travel.
[19:08:56] <archivist> go back a step
[19:09:48] <archivist> without rotating the spindle, move x and y see if the the table tapered
[19:10:24] <FinboySlick> archivist: That was the first test of all. This one is spot on both X and Y.
[19:11:24] <archivist> did you have to mount the column on the bed?
[19:11:32] <Jymmm\AE> FinboySlick: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202025674/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=punch
[19:11:35] <FinboySlick> No, it came pre-assembled.
[19:12:51] <FinboySlick> Jymmm\AE: I think this is a bit past just the drillbit walking.
[19:13:15] <FinboySlick> Jymmm\AE: But good one regardless.
[19:13:38] <Jymmm\AE> FinboySlick: Same one at Enco is $25
[19:14:01] <Jymmm\AE> http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=663&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=505-0415
[19:14:12] <archivist> Jymmm\AE, unrelated to his problem
[19:14:33] <Jymmm\AE> k
[19:14:38] <skunkworks> https://mtxone.com/shop/matrixone7S.html
[19:15:04] <FinboySlick> archivist: I called the Keith (the salesperson) today. He didn't seem surprised with what I described... Though his initial answer to adjust for backlash in Mach3 made me scoff a bit.
[19:15:51] <FinboySlick> When I showed I had done at least some homework he told me more about how they adjust it in house... Apparently 'tweaking required' is part of the deal... Just not written anywhere.
[19:16:19] <jdh> do they provide direction for how to do so?
[19:16:43] <archivist> at that price I would expect tweaking to be done
[19:16:43] <FinboySlick> jdh: Loosen/tighten bolts, see if it helps. If not, shim.
[19:17:44] <FinboySlick> archivist: Me too. But the denial and disappointment phases are behind me now. I'm more focused on fixing it.
[19:18:04] <archivist> the fun part :)
[19:18:38] <archivist> do you have a lathe and a good micrometer
[19:18:49] <FinboySlick> archivist: I'm seeing it as an adventure. Though I hope I'm not too annoying with my insecurities. I'm really trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible even though it's no substitute for experience.
[19:19:23] <jdh> if it were perfect out of the box, you would not have this opportunity to gain experience!
[19:19:34] <FinboySlick> archivist: My Sherline mini-lathe is in a terrible state. I have a good micrometer in the 0-1" range.
[19:20:05] <archivist> FinboySlick, make a circular square, turn a 3" bar exactly parallem
[19:20:24] <archivist> exactly parallel with a concave end
[19:20:54] <archivist> that is your precision square
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[19:22:30] <FinboySlick> archivist: Sit it on the table and measure up and down its side?
[19:22:33] <tjb1> What are you adjusting FinboySlick
[19:22:42] <archivist> FinboySlick, yup
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[19:23:05] <FinboySlick> tjb1: 1- Z travel perpendicularity to the table and 2- tramming.
[19:23:06] <archivist> as it is round you also have front and rear
[19:23:13] <tjb1> On what machine?
[19:23:22] <FinboySlick> archivist: And I know it isn't conical by measuring both ends.
[19:23:55] <FinboySlick> tjb1: One that doesn't have such adjustments :P Syil SpeedMaster X5.
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[19:24:30] <FinboySlick> archivist: Could I use tubing to save weight if I machine the side too?
[19:24:31] <archivist> concave on the ends and parallel is most important
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[19:24:38] <tjb1> Cool looking little machine
[19:25:15] <archivist> tube may bend under the chuck holding pressure
[19:26:30] <sliptonic> JT-Shop: Time for a quick question?
[19:27:09] <sliptonic> I'm working from your 5i25/7i77 config and haven't done much to tweak it yet.
[19:27:22] <sliptonic> I've got limit switches and servo amps wired though.
[19:27:51] <sliptonic> When I go off e-stop and enable, the X axis move very quickly in the negative direction and then gets a following error.
[19:28:14] <sliptonic> I know what the following error is but I don't know why the axis is moving in the first place.
[19:28:21] <FinboySlick> archivist: Good point. One thing bothers me a bit tough... Since the column might be nodding forward/back (actually, I know it does), wouldn't that mess up my sideways measurement?
[19:29:26] <archivist> some flex is normal, that is yet another measurement
[19:29:37] <FinboySlick> archivist: I don't mean flex.
[19:30:18] <archivist> there should be no play if that is what you mean
[19:30:29] <archivist> adjust, fix
[19:30:40] <FinboySlick> archivist: Say my indicator is exactly at the tangent of the cylinder at Z1, it might be somewhere else around the perimeter at Z2.
[19:31:15] <FinboySlick> like at 89°
[19:32:01] <archivist> move xy so it is right in line
[19:32:08] <FinboySlick> This would exagerate the measure of the axis I'm trying to adjust because of misadjustment in the axis I'm not yet trying to adjust.
[19:32:44] <archivist> but learning to fix one error at a time is the right idea
[19:33:12] <archivist> hmm could be cake time
[19:33:19] <FinboySlick> archivist: Correct, which is why I think I'd be better off with a flat surface parallel to the axis I'm trying to adjust.
[19:35:32] <FinboySlick> archivist: If it's birthday cake, happy birthday ;)
[19:36:25] <archivist> no just a freebee from a neighbour
[19:42:13] <archivist> you can use a collimator with a mirror and prism too
[19:42:19] <mk0> is it enough ./configure --enable-run-in-place --enable-simulator and make to compile simulator? i get an error on linking rtlib/abs.so
[19:45:10] <tjb1> archivist: What do you think - http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/222003_4391654905506_288311715_n.jpg
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[19:47:46] <archivist> is there another slide under the plate that the ball screw drives
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[19:48:24] <tjb1> Those 2 holes in the plate are where the nut goes
[19:48:31] <micges> mk0: hi
[19:48:37] <tjb1> The nuts with no bolts in them
[19:48:49] <mk0> micges, Hi
[19:48:54] <micges> mk0: please use pastebin to show what error do you have
[19:49:18] <mk0> it's in russian ^(
[19:49:24] <mk0> :-\
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[19:50:15] <mk0> 5 min i'll translate
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[19:50:46] <tjb1> archivist: Those 2 linear slides are for the floating Z for plate touch off
[19:51:05] <FinboySlick> tjb1: I was going to ask about 'em.
[19:51:27] <FinboySlick> tjb1: How will they be actuated?
[19:51:36] <tjb1> They arent
[19:51:38] <tjb1> They float
[19:51:56] <tjb1> I might have a spring to ensure it always stay completely down but the torch weight should be enough
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[19:53:03] <tjb1> There will be a microswitch somewhere down there that one of the slides will trip for the probing sequence.
[19:53:11] <andypugh> mk0: --run-in-place is default, and might even be a problem now.
[19:53:16] <andypugh> Try without it.
[19:54:01] <mk0> http://pastebin.com/jfGqMkwL config.log
[19:54:11] <mk0> i tried several times
[19:54:20] <mk0> then googled but nothing
[19:55:56] <micges> mk0: please paste console output
[19:56:10] <micges> few lines with error with it
[19:56:12] <mk0> in 1 minute
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[20:02:51] <mk0> http://pastebin.com/DWKTJWLf
[20:05:02] <andypugh> Hmm, no idea.
[20:05:40] <andypugh> I wonder if it is a localisation error?
[20:06:43] <mk0> i don't think so. i'll try to reinstall ubuntu tomorrow to be sure
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[20:09:41] <andypugh> x86.get_pc_thunk doesn't appear anywhere in my repository.
[20:10:06] <andypugh> I have one instance of i686.get_pc.thunk in Makefile.
[20:10:12] <micges_> mk0: is it 32 bit ubuntu?
[20:10:19] <andypugh> So it may be dynamically created or something.
[20:10:25] <mk0> yes, definitely
[20:10:35] <andypugh> Did you make clean?
[20:10:40] <mk0> yes
[20:10:45] <andypugh> Also, why Simulator?
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[20:12:37] <mk0> it's 12.04 ubuntu, i installed on home machine.
[20:12:55] <mk0> maybe 12.04 does not suite
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[20:14:03] <djdelorie> mk0: I was unable to build a plain simulator with 2.6 recently too, on Fedora
[20:14:37] <andypugh> You can get the 12.04 simulator from the Buildbot: http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org
[20:15:16] <mk0> yep, in manual i saw links only for hardy and lucid.
[20:16:49] <andypugh> deb http://buildbot.linuxcnc.org/ precise v2.4_branch-sim
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[20:17:22] <mk0> why not master?
[20:17:58] <tjb1> Anyone have a Hypertherm Powermax 45 handy?
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[20:19:39] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: you still around?
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[20:22:30] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Did you see the picture of my floating Z?
[20:22:36] <JT-Shop> no
[20:23:21] <tjb1> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/222003_4391654905506_288311715_n.jpg
[20:23:22] <tjb1> So far
[20:24:53] <sliptonic> JT-Shop: Yeah, I'm here.
[20:25:17] <JT-Shop> did you sort out your problem?
[20:25:26] <sliptonic> No, not yet.
[20:25:45] <JT-Shop> tjb1: looks kinda like mine
[20:26:07] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: is the drive just wandering off on it's own
[20:26:32] <sliptonic> Seems to be. I'm not commanding any movement.
[20:27:33] <JT-Shop> when you power up the drive is Linuxcnc in control of the drive?
[20:27:59] <sliptonic> Yes.
[20:28:13] <sliptonic> Does linuxcnc initialize with a commanded position of zero?
[20:28:51] <JT-Shop> sounds like something is crossed up like encoder feedback and velocity direction
[20:29:15] <JT-Shop> when you turn the axis by hand does the DRO read properly?
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[20:29:48] <sliptonic> Let me check on that..
[20:30:28] <tjb1> JT-Shop: Im gonna make the plate tonight and probably EDM the torch clamp next week
[20:33:37] <sliptonic> It seems to be reversed. The encoder and the input to the amp are wired the same as Y which is working correctly.
[20:33:56] <gentoox_> i built rtai on ubuntu 12.04
[20:34:09] <gentoox_> with linux kernel 2.6.38.8
[20:34:21] <gentoox_> rtai-3.9
[20:34:49] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: reverse the sign of your scale on that axis and see if it goes the correct way
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[20:35:41] <mk0> gentoox_, it means release with precompiled linuxcnc is possble on 12.04?
[20:35:44] <JT-Shop> I just made my clamp from some 6061
[20:36:13] <gentoox_> Yes not with a v3.0 kernel though
[20:36:41] <gentoox_> this is WillenCMD or Gabe_W im installing gentoo so i am on the live cd don't know how tho change my name on this text base irq program
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[20:36:54] <lwizardl> hello\
[20:37:18] <mk0> "nick lalala"
[20:37:30] <lwizardl> I was wondering on a emc based cnc machine. if there would be any way to make clean cuts in heavy card stock
[20:38:39] gentoox_ is now known as WillenCMD
[20:38:43] <WillenCMD> alright
[20:38:49] <WillenCMD> thanks mk0
[20:39:16] <WillenCMD> rtai-3.9 is being a pain in the ass in gentoo
[20:40:35] <sliptonic> JT-Shop: That corrected the direction but not the movement.
[20:41:37] <WillenCMD> r00t you on here?
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[20:47:47] <FinboySlick> WillenCMD: What kernel are you trying to patch?
[20:48:03] <WillenCMD> i don't know i tried 2.6.38.8 with no luck
[20:48:18] <FinboySlick> Last I tried it was very picky.
[20:48:19] <WillenCMD> no im going to follow the emc instructions see if that works
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[20:48:25] <WillenCMD> now*
[20:48:26] <FinboySlick> I don't think you'll go beyond .32
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[20:49:12] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: can you jog the axis? does it go in the right direction when you do?
[20:49:41] <sliptonic> I can't jog. It starts moving as soon as I enable.
[20:50:06] <WillenCMD> what driver are you using?
[20:50:18] <sliptonic> It moves about 1/10th of an inch and then gets the following error. I haven't done anything to calibrate though.
[20:50:55] <WillenCMD> sliptonic: Stepper motors?
[20:51:11] <sliptonic> WillenCMD: Nope, servos.
[20:51:27] <WillenCMD> are you using lcnc to close the loop?
[20:51:37] <djdelorie> another servo fan! :-)
[20:51:42] <WillenCMD> or do you have drives?
[20:52:16] <sliptonic> This a retrofit of a Supermax mill. Servodynamics amps and motors.
[20:52:51] <WillenCMD> using step pulses to the drive?
[20:52:59] <WillenCMD> or pwm?
[20:53:20] <sliptonic> Mesa 5i25+7i77 analog servo driver.
[20:53:41] <WillenCMD> ahhh.. sorry if you answered these questions earlier
[20:54:12] <sliptonic> No sweat. I've used linuxcnc for stepper based systems before but this is my first go at a servo system.
[20:54:25] <WillenCMD> does Axis DRO show movement when you try to jog?
[20:55:29] <sliptonic> If I move manually, the DRO shows correct movement. As soon as I enable, it tries to move the X axis rapidly in the negative direction. It goes too fast and disables after getting a following error.
[20:55:54] <cradek> enable what?
[20:56:44] <WillenCMD> i would assume jog
[20:56:49] <cradek> don't assume
[20:56:51] <sliptonic> I start linuxcnc, disable e-stop, and toggle machine power. As soon as I toggle machine power, off she goes.
[20:56:52] <cradek> enable what, how?
[20:57:04] <WillenCMD> sounds like an encoder issue
[20:57:13] <cradek> you mean like press f2 in the gui? or some hardware enable?
[20:57:14] <djdelorie> or hal isn't resetting the "I'm here" encoder value
[20:57:20] <WillenCMD> I have had that happen when i had A and B crossed
[20:57:55] <PCW> Most likely you have feedback reversed
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[20:58:03] <WillenCMD> that was where i was getting at
[20:58:05] <cradek> > If I move manually, the DRO shows correct movement.
[20:58:26] <cradek> maybe *command* reversed
[20:59:03] <cradek> or maybe pid isn't disabling when not axis.N.amp-enable-out
[20:59:12] <cradek> that's why I wonder what he is enabling/disabling exactly
[20:59:14] <WillenCMD> i would suggenst setting PID.0.maxvelocity to keep it from running away
[20:59:29] <cradek> it's clearly not under sane pid control so that won't help
[20:59:53] <cradek> (and there's no such setting)
[20:59:56] <PCW> did you verify that your drives work first?
[21:00:10] <WillenCMD> maxoutput
[21:00:12] <WillenCMD> my bad
[21:00:16] <WillenCMD> had to double check
[21:00:28] <sliptonic> PCW: verify how?
[21:00:33] <PCW> that is 0 input makes them just creep along an the fastest
[21:00:42] <PCW> at the fastest
[21:00:50] <andypugh> mk0: Just got back. There are builbot sims of the three main branches for recise.
[21:00:56] <andypugh> (Precise)
[21:02:14] <PCW> and that you can drive them slowly in each direction with a say 1.5V battery on the analog in
[21:02:14] <WillenCMD> how do i get cvs.gna.org/cvsweb..... hal-linux patch from cli?
[21:02:24] <mk0> andypugh, smth is wrong with installation. it does not want to install any of them. i'll download 12.04.1 again and install english
[21:02:52] <WillenCMD> mk0: do you want realtime or just the sim?
[21:03:06] <PCW> when you test with a battery note which direction it moves VS input polarity
[21:03:06] <andypugh> The buildbot isn't working, you mean?
[21:03:18] <sliptonic> PCW: I'm 95% certain they're o.k. but I'll verify now.
[21:03:21] <mk0> WillenCMD, no, just sim
[21:03:37] <mk0> andypugh, synaptic does not let install
[21:04:17] <mk0> and apt-get. they both say some dependencies are not met
[21:04:24] <WillenCMD> just download the source from the git repository and make install it
[21:04:38] <WillenCMD> i have always had good luck with that
[21:04:53] <mk0> nope, that was the initial problem :(
[21:05:03] <WillenCMD> what error are you getting?
[21:05:04] <djdelorie> WillenCMD: I can't build "just sim" from git either
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[21:05:42] <andypugh> That's odd.
[21:05:52] <andypugh> I don't know enough to know what the problem might be.
[21:05:54] <WillenCMD> i have installed the source on Xubuntu 12.04, lubuntu 12.04 and plain Ubuntu 12.04
[21:06:06] <mk0> WillenCMD, i rebooted. the link to pastebin in log
[21:06:17] <djdelorie> it really, desperately, definitely, wants a realtime kernel with extensions, even just for the sim.
[21:06:35] <mk0> djdelorie, YES!
[21:07:04] <WillenCMD> Is there a reason you need ubuntu 12.04? do you need drivers offered from the v3.0 kernel?
[21:07:31] <WillenCMD> i can easily wip up an realtime install instruction
[21:07:35] <djdelorie> "just the sim" shouldn't need any drivers, kernel or otherwise...
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[21:07:51] <PCW> once you know which direction they move for which polarity, connect up again but leave the motor disabled
[21:07:53] <PCW> now jog and the 7I77 analog output voltage polarity should be in the direction that would move the motor in the jog direction
[21:07:55] <PCW> if it does good but if it move in the other direction you will need to reverse the output polarity (there are a couple of ways to do this)
[21:08:01] <WillenCMD> i just installed it on ubuntu 12.04 minimal this week
[21:08:05] <mk0> WillenCMD, nope, just wanted to install new system on home PC
[21:08:26] <WillenCMD> try this
[21:08:46] <mk0> 12.04.1?
[21:08:56] <mk0> or first 12.04?
[21:09:13] <WillenCMD> it shouldn't matter
[21:09:42] <WillenCMD> are you on it right now?
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[21:10:37] <mk0> nope, win8 :) i rebooted before sleep
[21:11:08] <WillenCMD> add http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid lucid base to your /etc/apt/sources.list
[21:11:15] <DJ9DJ_> gn8
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[21:11:59] <WillenCMD> run # echo deb http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid lucid base >> /etc/apt/sources.list
[21:12:14] <WillenCMD> run # echo deb-src http://www.linuxcnc.org/lucid lucid base >> /etc/apt/sources.list
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[21:12:26] <WillenCMD> then you need to get the key from the key server
[21:12:52] <mk0> doesn't it get automatically?
[21:12:56] <WillenCMD> no
[21:12:58] <mk0> the key i mean
[21:13:04] <mk0> oh, okay
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[21:13:36] <WillenCMD> gpg --keyserver pgpkeys.mid.edu --recv-key 8F374FEF
[21:14:10] <WillenCMD> gpg -a --export 8F374FEF | sudo apt-key add -
[21:14:34] <WillenCMD> then just sudo apt-get update
[21:14:40] <WillenCMD> and open synaptics
[21:14:45] <WillenCMD> or use cli
[21:15:04] <mk0> luscid base in precise, right?
[21:15:23] <WillenCMD> yes i know its not exactly made for it, but it works
[21:15:28] <mk0> deb line. install linuxcnc-sim?
[21:15:45] <djdelorie> all that doesn't help me on Fedora, though...
[21:16:01] <mk0> oh, man! why did you say it!
[21:16:04] <mk0> ))
[21:16:35] <djdelorie> after all, it's linuxcnc, not ubuntucnc ;-)
[21:16:48] <WillenCMD> im with you djdelorie
[21:17:13] <mk0> i'd get angrey if not jack
[21:17:15] <WillenCMD> i sent the #ubuntu a nice message yesterday told them i was breaking up with them
[21:17:19] <alex4nder> building the software from scratch isn't that hard
[21:17:22] <mk0> jack daniels!
[21:17:39] <djdelorie> alex4nder: only when it works...
[21:17:40] <WillenCMD> alex4nder: it is if your new to linux in general
[21:17:55] <alex4nder> djdelorie: obvious statements are obvious
[21:18:01] <alex4nder> but it took me no time at all
[21:18:13] <WillenCMD> its weird to think i have gone back in time and actually prefer cli now
[21:18:17] <alex4nder> WillenCMD: if you're new to Linux, you shouldn't be worried about which distribution you're using.
[21:18:37] <lwizardl> anyone know if an EMC based cnc machine can be used to cut cardboard boxes ? and be able to produce smooth edges on the cuts?
[21:18:37] <djdelorie> in my case, the build failed for various reasons, some stupid (NULL undefined?) and some subtle (dependencies on RTAI for "just the simulator")
[21:18:41] <WillenCMD> im not, any more very familiar with it now but when i started i was new
[21:19:02] <WillenCMD> lwizardl: i wouldn't see why not
[21:19:07] <djdelorie> lwizardl: that's up to the machine, not the software. Also, "emc" is now called "linuxcnc" instead
[21:19:24] <WillenCMD> or "LCNC"
[21:19:32] <mk0> lwizardl, i think the question is in hith rpm
[21:19:36] <mk0> high
[21:19:38] <lwizardl> djdelorie, okay thanks for the update on that
[21:19:43] <mk0> sbout 20000 per min
[21:19:45] <djdelorie> or choosing a knife or laser based solution
[21:20:32] <WillenCMD> a 2 flute endmill should suffice keep the feeds up, don't let it rub
[21:20:50] <WillenCMD> you'll see smoke if you do
[21:20:52] <lwizardl> well I just bought the book for building a CNC machine. so I'm completely new to the process.
[21:21:15] <djdelorie> do you *only* want to cut cardboard?
[21:21:33] <lwizardl> this book http://www.amazon.com/Build-Your-Machine-Technology-Action/dp/1430224894
[21:22:19] <lwizardl> djdelorie, no I want to do other stuff also. but I would like to be able to create boxes to store stuff in, like Arcade PCB game boards etc
[21:22:53] <djdelorie> I built my own without a book: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[21:23:13] <WillenCMD> nothing wrong with research though :)
[21:23:19] <djdelorie> it has interchangable heads so I can change cutter types, I probably could put a knife/laser on it if I had such things...
[21:23:21] <WillenCMD> it pays off in the long run
[21:23:42] <djdelorie> sure. In my case, I had a friend over who had already gone through the process :-)
[21:23:48] <WillenCMD> i read about everything, hell i don't by a toothbrush without reading the reviews
[21:24:22] <mk0> oh, that's not interesting )
[21:24:36] * djdelorie makes a note to try cutting cardboard with the 56,000 RPM spindle...
[21:25:04] <lwizardl> djdelorie, yeah that cnc machine so far (from the pictures) looks nice. how much room does that take up ?
[21:25:22] <djdelorie> it's about 3ft by 3.5ft
[21:25:22] <sliptonic> PCW: That got it. For some reason, X axis needs polarity reversed relative to the other two axis. It moves!!
[21:25:47] <lwizardl> djdelorie, how much it cost you to build it?
[21:26:08] <djdelorie> sliptonic: I went through that on my cnc machine, ended up drawing the axes and origin right on the cnc table so I could keep track of what it was supposed to be doing
[21:26:23] <djdelorie> lwizardl: hard to say, it was mostly built from scrap and surplus we already had
[21:26:32] <JT-Shop> sliptonic: yea
[21:26:36] <WillenCMD> djdelorie: i would say your above the "average" person building a cnc
[21:26:54] <djdelorie> perhaps for the electronics and software, but not for the machine itself :-)
[21:27:07] <WillenCMD> afterall you did build your own servo drives, and write the code. I would imagine thats not in his book
[21:27:35] <lwizardl> yeah i bet not
[21:28:20] <lwizardl> but the book guy does have a website about it http://buildyourcnc.com/
[21:28:24] <WillenCMD> pricing is has a huge spectrum and its all very relevant to what you wnat to achieve
[21:28:30] <WillenCMD> want*
[21:28:31] <djdelorie> sure, the servo drives are good to 0.00...001 inches, but the plywood still moves by a visible amount!
[21:28:46] <djdelorie> WillenCMD: speaking of that, I still owe you source code for the drives
[21:28:57] <WillenCMD> no i got it...
[21:29:00] <djdelorie> I eventually rewrote the core control loops, they work very nicely now
[21:29:02] <WillenCMD> unless you have updated it
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[21:29:29] <WillenCMD> im actually using it right now i built a stepper drive that runs on rectified ac mains
[21:29:29] <djdelorie> I updated it. Full park/clark PID loops with all the trimmiings now.
[21:30:10] <djdelorie> the drives are pretty much dead silent and low current until you try to move them, then they lock up solid :-)
[21:30:11] <WillenCMD> its going to be closed loop
[21:30:50] <WillenCMD> its one of my many projects... i tend to bounce around with them as i get bored
[21:31:14] <WillenCMD> im addicted to writing programs right now, so its all i want to do lately
[21:31:51] <djdelorie> I should make more boards, send you one, and let you write my software then :-)
[21:32:28] <WillenCMD> lol, i'll take a few boards. Do you still have the cad for the boards?
[21:32:35] <djdelorie> I do
[21:32:47] <djdelorie> I was thinking of adding a +-10 VDC analog input, too, though.
[21:32:47] <WillenCMD> hmm i wonder how much a batch of say 50 would cost
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[21:32:56] <djdelorie> just boards, or populated?
[21:33:11] <WillenCMD> you can buy them populated?
[21:33:29] <djdelorie> no, but you have to figure the cost of parts
[21:33:39] <WillenCMD> oh just the boards
[21:33:58] <WillenCMD> i would be willing to put some money in if your thinking about buying some
[21:34:18] <djdelorie> it's 3.1 by 4.8 inches, currently two layer but I should redo it as four - had problems with EMI
[21:34:31] <WillenCMD> i remember you saying that
[21:34:56] <WillenCMD> i also think your microcontroller is a bit pricey
[21:35:18] <djdelorie> $6 ?
[21:35:23] <WillenCMD> oh
[21:35:30] <WillenCMD> lol i thought it was $90
[21:35:33] <djdelorie> it's the inverter that's pricey
[21:35:43] <djdelorie> that sounds more like a per-board BOM cost
[21:35:56] <WillenCMD> the inverter is $20.00 bucks
[21:36:00] <WillenCMD> that not bad
[21:36:43] <djdelorie> I think I figured $100 per board "actual cost" with a $200-$300 equivalent retail cost
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[21:36:56] <andypugh> 50 boards is likely to be $160 for 4" x 6". Less if smaller, more if bigger.
[21:36:59] <WillenCMD> andy sent me some arduino code, i used on the fiarchild inverter first. pretty cool
[21:37:21] <andypugh> (bare boards, from that China)
[21:37:22] <djdelorie> I let the magic smoke out of one of those inverter chips and it *kept working* afterwards.
[21:37:41] <WillenCMD> thats the break in smoke
[21:37:58] <WillenCMD> now its running smoothly
[21:39:01] <WillenCMD> i used to laugh at how cheap the "electronic hobbiest where" untill i got into it. I thought $10.00 bucks for a mosfet thats cheap... well when you burn 6 up in a afternoon it hit me pretty fast
[21:39:46] <WillenCMD> not to mention there is only one local place that has a decent selection otherwise i have to wait 3 days for newark or digikey
[21:42:22] * djdelorie doesn't even have a "local place"
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[21:42:53] <WillenCMD> the one here is only open untill 5 and 45mins away from where i live. closed on sundays
[21:43:24] <WillenCMD> but man do they have a ton of stuff i mean wall to wall buttons,old scopes, motors, batteries i mean it looks like a junk store
[21:44:09] <WillenCMD> they keep the expensive components behind the counter though
[21:44:16] <WillenCMD> i wonder why....
[21:46:57] <WillenCMD> im having a hard time getting a cvs checkout of the hal-linux patch from gna.org
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[21:49:07] <WillenCMD> never mind
[21:49:08] <WillenCMD> got it
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[21:50:22] <WillenCMD> i have always wanted to hack in to something... like in the movies typing non stop never using a mouse
[21:50:33] <WillenCMD> someday...
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[21:52:53] <andypugh> I _can_ get to RS or Rapid if I need to. (Rapid even open Sundays). But both are 40 miles.
[21:53:09] <WillenCMD> 2 places
[21:53:11] <WillenCMD> damn
[21:53:30] <WillenCMD> i went to radioshack and wow what a let down
[21:53:50] <lwizardl> hehe ratshack
[21:54:02] <lwizardl> or CellularShack now
[21:54:18] <WillenCMD> true... pretty soon there will only be one drawer of components
[21:54:27] <WillenCMD> i love when they ask if i need help
[21:55:12] <WillenCMD> sure could you help me select the right filter capacitor...
[21:55:22] <lwizardl> yeah my local one they have 1 guy there (about 50 years old and worked there for last 20+ years). I walk in ask if Ivan is there, if not I say nope and I walk back out
[21:55:55] <andypugh> Oh, I forgot Maplin, that's a couple of miles away. Not the same as the RS or Rapid counters, but they sell basic stuff.
[21:55:59] <lwizardl> the other 5 people there are cellphone one people
[21:56:47] <andypugh> http://www.maplin.co.uk/components
[21:57:38] <andypugh> They tend to only have one of most components though...
[21:59:22] <WillenCMD> one of each? that wouldn't work for me
[21:59:41] <WillenCMD> i have a 60% scrap rate
[21:59:44] <WillenCMD> lol
[22:00:30] <WillenCMD> things have inproved though since i bought i really nice soldering pencil... instead of that bulky weller gun my dad let me borrow
[22:00:51] <WillenCMD> my wrist would be dead after holding that damn thing for on pcb board
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[22:22:35] <r00t4rd3d> http://new.weavesilk.com/
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[22:55:46] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/rdfDr.png
[22:55:51] <r00t4rd3d> fking canadians
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[23:14:25] <FinboySlick> r00t4rd3d: Worship the culd of Zamboni.
[23:14:31] <FinboySlick> cult
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[23:42:05] <r00t4rd3d> http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-57524063-76/report-3d-printed-handgun-project-faces-setback-with-revoked-printer-lease/
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[23:56:46] <WillenCMD> has anyone built rtai for gentoo lately?
[23:58:19] <r00t4rd3d> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?EmcOnGentoo
[23:59:00] <tjb1> Almost finished Z
[23:59:01] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/580257_4393785638773_1073429308_n.jpg
[23:59:21] <WillenCMD> i already tried that
[23:59:38] <WillenCMD> i was hoping you would be on root, i knew you used gentoo