Back
[00:01:24] <Gabe_W> i guess the pentium pro is the best class for a core i7 or should i go with core 2 duo/later Xeon
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[00:04:30] <Gabe_W> also for the Timer frequency what is better?
[00:08:01] <andypugh> I have no idea what your questions even mean :-)
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[00:09:21] <Gabe_W> oh.. are the poorly asked? they pertain to the kernel config
[00:11:32] <andypugh> LinuxCNC kernels normally say i386, I think
[00:11:55] <andypugh> You need to match rtai patches.
[00:12:06] <cpresser> why do you think you need to somehow optimize the kernel?
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[00:12:26] <andypugh> Why do I need a 180hp motorbike? :-)
[00:13:19] <andypugh> I suspet he has reached the "hotrod kernel" stage, where it has nothing to do with practicality.
[00:13:52] <cpresser> take a look at
http://funroll-loops.info/ :)
[00:14:04] <Gabe_W> Im not optomizing
[00:14:05] <jdh> rice it up!
[00:14:18] <jdh> what is your end goal?
[00:14:20] <Gabe_W> im simply configuring it, for my computer
[00:14:24] <Gabe_W> and getoo
[00:14:41] <Gabe_W> making sure i have everything correct because im getting tired of waiting for the make process
[00:14:47] <Gabe_W> gentoo*
[00:15:20] <jdh> vs. just being up and running instantly with a canned kernel?
[00:15:25] <Gabe_W> i havethe kernel and rtai working, have some really poor latency's with overruns but i know its not hardware the standard linuxcnc install runs great
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[00:15:45] <cpresser> Gabe_W: the copy the kernel config
[00:15:52] <cpresser> take a look at /proc/config.gz
[00:16:13] <Gabe_W> on the ubuntu system or on this one im building?
[00:16:41] <Gabe_W> because the ubuntu system is gone..
[00:17:18] <cpresser> of course the 'old' config can only be found on the old system
[00:17:29] <cpresser> but just boot from the live-cd :)
[00:17:52] <Gabe_W> copy it to a thumb drive i like the way you think
[00:18:10] <Gabe_W> the .conf that is
[00:18:13] <jdh> I can pastebin my .config if you would like.
[00:18:31] <Gabe_W> it s nice reading about all of this on the kernel menuconfig
[00:18:41] <Gabe_W> but there is no core i7 processor
[00:18:49] <Gabe_W> in the processor family
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[00:20:42] <mutilator> anyone know where i can send (or otherwise order specific) enclosures to get some holes drilled?
[00:21:02] <jdh> do you have a drill?
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[00:21:09] <mutilator> its hard to make a 15x15m hole
[00:21:13] <mutilator> mm
[00:21:52] <Gabe_W> i tried browsing the git from my wifes laptop looking for the rtai .conf but i couldn't find it
[00:22:30] <mutilator> i have ~50 of these to do and 15 of them here right now i figured i could do but i just cant find a way to do it
[00:23:35] <jdh> drilled round hole? or 15x15mm square hole?
[00:23:56] <mutilator> square
[00:24:01] <mutilator> round holes are easy :P
[00:24:22] <tjb1> How thick of material?
[00:24:31] <tjb1> also what material
[00:25:36] <jdh> mutilator:
http://az.rsdelivers.com/catalogue/category/punches-and-dies/1754.aspx#PI-1|A-59743|A-247189
[00:25:39] <mutilator> its ~2.5mm thick
[00:25:43] <mutilator> http://www.pactecenclosures.com/product-detail.php?productid=77&seriesid=64&classid=31
[00:25:44] <mutilator> this enclosure
[00:26:05] <tjb1> Holes in the cover or the box?
[00:26:06] <mutilator> yea jdh its too bad i dont have a press
[00:26:09] <mutilator> both
[00:26:21] <mutilator> the 15x15mm hole is in the box tho
[00:26:23] <tjb1> Any corner radius at all?
[00:26:31] <mutilator> no
[00:26:35] <tjb1> Good luck :)
[00:26:40] <mutilator> heh
[00:26:51] <tjb1> Dont have many options for that
[00:26:59] <tjb1> Laser, drill and file, mill and file, or punch
[00:27:15] <mutilator> yea.. i tried to drill and file
[00:27:23] <mutilator> was a mediocure result
[00:27:31] <tjb1> Do you have a CNC router/mill?
[00:27:35] <mutilator> no
[00:27:39] <tjb1> or even cnc pcb drill
[00:27:56] <mutilator> i have pcb drills and my dremel+drill press
[00:28:14] <mutilator> it just ends up melting the plastic or breaking the drill bit if i try to go too fast
[00:28:27] <tjb1> What if you drill a hole and make a hot wire cutter?
[00:28:39] <mutilator> hm
[00:28:53] <tjb1> Drill hole, thread wire, turn it on and cut it :)
[00:30:23] <tjb1> These holes for little buttons im guessing
[00:30:55] <mutilator> the 15x15 is for a rj45 receptacle
[00:32:16] <mutilator> pactec referred me to electronicprecepts.com
[00:32:25] <mutilator> so i hit them up, we'll see what they say tomorrow
[00:33:27] <mutilator> maybe i could get a hot knife tip for my hakko
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[01:05:37] <Gabe_W> can i browse linuxcnc source files via a web browser?
[01:09:37] <PCW> yes
[01:11:15] <Gabe_W> i just want to read the rtai .conf from the ubuntu iso i don't feel like booting it up
[01:11:20] <PCW> http://git.linuxcnc.org/gitweb?p=linuxcnc.git;a=tree
[01:12:21] <Gabe_W> also when i re-ran make on the patchedkernel a linux folder shows up in /usr/src... is this just a copy or backup?
[01:13:00] <PCW> dunno
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[01:28:49] <Gabe_W> any care to pastebin there rtai .conf file? i don't feel like burning the ubuntu disk
[01:29:10] <Gabe_W> anyone*
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[01:50:57] <r00t4rd3d> grab it from the git
[01:51:11] <r00t4rd3d> newb
[01:51:51] <r00t4rd3d> https://github.com/jepler/linuxcnc-mirror
[01:55:13] <r00t4rd3d> or maybe its not generated till you install and run it
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[02:24:53] <Gabe_W> bingo
[02:25:13] <Gabe_W> don't worry i went the long route and burned a dsk
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[02:30:39] <jdh> GabeW:
http://pastebin.com/jtxSZHuw
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[02:35:29] <Gabe_W> thanks :)
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[02:42:57] <jdh> geez... I haven't had to build a kernel myself in like 10 years... 5100 line .config
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[02:53:39] <Gabe_W> well your missing out
[02:53:40] <Gabe_W> lo;l
[02:54:10] <Gabe_W> the live cd is a waste, emc users could just build it all from source
[02:54:19] <Gabe_W> make up a 400 page manual
[02:54:42] <jdh> or, just use the canned kernel. Works great.
[02:55:10] <Gabe_W> canned kernel? excuse my ignorance
[02:55:29] <jdh> the one that is installed off the livecd
[02:57:31] <Gabe_W> oh thats to easy though don't you want to spend countless hours re-making one untill you get it right
[02:57:46] <Gabe_W> the satisfaction it brings is worth it
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[06:35:13] <skorket> http://imgur.com/46dQ1 ...What do you guys think?
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[06:43:53] <BHSPiMonkey> skorket: sweet. context?
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[06:45:43] <skorket> cnc routing of a pcb. should be 20mil trace, 20mil clearance, but I don't think that's right. I did something wrong and the trace and the clearance are much lower than that...
[06:45:51] <skorket> it looks like 6-9mil trace width, maybe?
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[06:46:23] <BHSPiMonkey> well it's better than I would know how to do
[06:46:36] <skorket> 28mil clearance? anyway, I have to play around with it
[06:47:05] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[07:12:45] <skorket> I'm concerned I've screwed up my spindle. I shoved it into the work...would that cause it to increase it's runout?
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[08:00:49] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[08:22:40] * Loetmichel looks like after a fight with the housecat... AGAIN... 30µm copper foil tape ist like a razor... THIRD bandaid attached this morning...
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[08:58:20] <Valen> lol what are you doing Loetmichel?
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[09:44:08] <Loetmichel> Valen: making a notebook Tempest-proof
[09:44:39] <Loetmichel> ... trying to :-)
[09:52:54] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/nAhBg.jpg
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[13:56:36] <Valen> Loetmichel: how does foil "tempest proof" stuff?
[13:56:46] <Valen> unless its an EMI storm?
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[14:01:20] <gmouer> few years back I remember a foil for shielding EMI, it was called mu-metal as I recall, used on military radio equipment
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[14:11:38] <mazafaka> gmouer: just any steel with Fe as chemical element, also called 'radio steel', the one lacking the carbon as much as it could be. Ferrum itself has such physical capabilities as covering the magnetic radiation, or conducting it if it is of a prooper shape.
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[14:16:13] <Loetmichel> Valen: hardened against eavesdropping, does Sdip-27 ring a bell?
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[14:18:07] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: my mill
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIDsnhCbzv8
[14:18:40] <Loetmichel> gmouer: and we use anything from copper foiul over aluminium foil over special dampening felt ofer frrite plates/beads and even copper/ni-layquer
[14:19:39] <Loetmichel> but the copper foil is the worst, the cuts of it wont heal.
[14:23:48] <mazafaka> copper for electric radiation?
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[14:29:25] <mazafaka> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4P3u7ydvPo
[14:39:10] <tjb1> damn machine hsop here is a sweat shop
[14:41:06] <Loetmichel> MarkusBec: right
[14:41:18] <Loetmichel> grr
[14:41:21] <Loetmichel> mazafaka
[14:43:49] <jdh> tjb1: go on strike.
[14:44:26] <tjb1> jdh: Need to turn the damn ac on in there...
[14:44:32] <Loetmichel> jdh: so he gets replaced with a dozen cheaper cinese kids?
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[14:52:42] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: what?
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[15:24:16] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.welldonestuff.com/2012/09/usb-flash-drive-concept.html
[15:25:02] <r00t4rd3d> I could use something like that
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[16:06:14] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d:
http://a.d-cd.net/e1ca9cu-960.jpg
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[16:13:31] <gmouer> Is Mesa Pete aka PCW usually around here? I have some mesa/servo drive questions for him
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[16:14:25] <awallin> gmouer: yes, he is around quite a lot... just ask
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[16:15:47] <skunkworks> (usually if you mention his name - he shows up)
[16:16:05] <gmouer> I have a bridgeport currently running under mach that I want to switch to emc but I want to chance the servo drives at the same time, thats where the problem lies
[16:16:21] <awallin> better change to servo motors also :)
[16:16:42] <skunkworks> what are the drives?
[16:16:50] <gmouer> Hi skunkworks! I have that lack of tachometer signal issue with the bridgeport also if I swap it to linuxcnc
[16:16:53] <skunkworks> I would guess some sort of step/dir?
[16:17:11] <skunkworks> well.... You really don't need a tach..
[16:17:13] <cradek> what do you have?
[16:17:22] <gmouer> the original powertron servos "had" tachs but they were disabled, the brushes removed
[16:17:50] <gmouer> I could fake the tach signal for new drives through the mesa board using the encoder velocity BUT
[16:18:08] <cradek> why not put the brushes back?
[16:18:35] <gmouer> brushes are long gone, plus not sure if tachs worked before
[16:18:36] <cradek> where are the original drives?
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[16:19:10] <gmouer> original drives long gone also, have dugong step/dir drives now, encoder ties to the drive
[16:19:12] <cradek> brushes are everyday replaceable items
[16:19:44] <cradek> argh, machine is ruined by a mach conversion :-/
[16:19:57] <skunkworks> heh
[16:20:05] <skunkworks> gmouer, learned the hard way...
[16:20:39] <skunkworks> cradek, gmouer is another one to used the simulated velocity back to the servo drive on one of his other projects.
[16:20:39] <gmouer> actually the machine works pretty darned good under mach, but now that I have used emc, I want to switch the mill over too
[16:20:55] <cradek> ok sorry, now that we know the terrible spot you're in, what's your actual question?
[16:21:34] <gmouer> prob with simulating the tachs is that it takes a analog channel for each servo, x4 in my case
[16:22:12] <cradek> what are you trying to replace your drives with?
[16:22:16] <skunkworks> gmouer, you do have another option. Lots of drives allow you to set them to voltage/current mode. No velocity loop. Then you tune accordingly. (lots of people do...) I have the B axis of the k&t tuned that way.
[16:22:42] <gmouer> I seen amc drives that can use the encoder for velocity feedback but not in the higher voltage/current I need
[16:23:35] <gmouer> just checking out my options
[16:23:51] <cradek> getting brushes and getting extra dac outputs are both straightforward answers
[16:24:03] <cradek> and I guess keeping your working drives is also straightforward
[16:24:38] <gmouer> yes, the but the dugong drives just don't tune well, constant problems with dither since day one
[16:24:47] <skunkworks> yeck
[16:25:08] <gmouer> I got spoiled tuning using emc's pid loop, sooooo nice
[16:26:15] <gmouer> well, maybe investigating getting the tachs working again might be the best solution then it seems
[16:26:21] <skunkworks> so - you either buy brushes or buy an extra daughter board for the 5i25 (if you don't want to do voltage/current mode on the amps - which is harder to tune well imho)
[16:27:47] <gmouer> I have a different motor on the knee, a allen bradley, that has no tach but I could fake that one tach signal which wouldn't be bad
[16:28:00] <skunkworks> I think our BE40a40 do encoder feedback...
[16:28:25] <skunkworks> for velocity
[16:29:02] <skunkworks> (remember the B for brushless drives are normally convertable to brushed....)
[16:29:09] <skunkworks> for AMC
[16:29:17] <gmouer> That was sort of my idea, if I ditch the dugong drives, maybe there are some reasonable priced drives that could use the encoder for velocity feedback, I am going to check out the BE40a40, thats for the tip
[16:29:48] <gmouer> yea, I seen that amc's brushless drives can run brushed motors also, nice feature!
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[16:30:17] <cradek> yes I have one of those on my rotary table (brushed motor)
[16:30:36] <gmouer> the dither in the dugong drives has driven me nuts since day one, never totally got rid of it
[16:30:38] <cradek> iirc, it has a real tach.
[16:31:53] <gmouer> the block diagram for the amc drives shows a frequency to voltage converter for using encoder velocity for feedback, about the same as I did in hal with emc
[16:32:19] <gmouer> only they did it in the drive
[16:32:51] <gmouer> so far, I have leaned towards amc drives, are you guys happy with them?
[16:33:09] <cradek> the hm2 driver is smarter than that: it uses sub-period timestamps to give a better velocity estimate
[16:33:33] <cradek> er, hmm f->v in the analog realm would be something like that too
[16:33:39] <cradek> forget what I said
[16:34:22] <gmouer> figured I would throw some of the ideas out there , don't want to make bad choices again
[16:35:26] <fragalot> anyone here got good suggestions for 4th and 5th axis' for mills ?
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[16:36:43] <gmouer> I used a vertex 6" rotary table for a 4th axis, works well
[16:37:01] <Gabe_W> Does anyone know how to use the python-rtai modules?
[16:37:20] <Gabe_W> i get liblxrt error's when i try to import them
[16:37:45] <awallin> gmouer: any tricks to get rid of backlash? this was a manual rotary that you added a motor to?
[16:41:24] <gmouer> yes, a manual rotary table, the vertex has adjustable backlash and is pretty good quality, other brands have been tried but problems with backlash, the vertex is the preferred brand for that reason
[16:43:51] <gmouer> I drive the vertex rotary table with a nema23 570oz stepper from kelling and a gecko drive
[16:44:56] <archivist> I make sure my gcode is unidirectional for my rotary (Vertex too)
[16:45:29] <gmouer> I suppose you could comp out any tiny remaining backlash too
[16:47:08] <gmouer> skunkworks: the BE40A40 drives does not have encoder velocity feedback provisions, it can use hall sensor feedback for velocity though
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[16:50:11] <IchGuckLive> HI all :O
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[17:04:24] <skunkworks> gmouer, I think the E designates encoder velocity. They say the be40a40 is discontinued but this
http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be40a20.pdf shows encoder feedback
[17:04:47] <skunkworks> I will have to find the spec sheet - I think I have it here somewhere.
[17:11:17] <gmouer> I have been learning amc's drives available, bridgeport will need about 15-20 amps cont, maybe 30 peak and 130 volts or so
[17:12:40] <gmouer> the retrofit is a ways off, just doing some the homework so I can start gathering parts
[17:13:46] <skunkworks> ebay
[17:14:27] <gmouer> yup, good ole ebay.... working on a ebay hit list
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[17:23:12] <sliptonic> I'm reading the various wikipedia pages and linuxcnc documentation about servo loop tuning and I'm confused.
[17:23:23] <sliptonic> Integrator manual talks about setting PID.
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[17:24:11] <sliptonic> But JT-Shop's tutorial (
http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/tuning/servo.html) sets I and D to zero and adjusts FF1.
[17:24:41] <sliptonic> Is there a comprehensive tutorial or documentation that brings these things together?
[17:25:27] <JT-Shop> P and I and D and FF1 and FF2 and FF3 do different things and depending on the application which ones you might need
[17:26:21] <JT-Shop> for a velocity drive you need some, for a torqe drive you might need to use different one and for a spindle something else is used
[17:27:17] <cpresser> sliptonic: the tutorial is 'visit a lecture about control theory'
[17:27:21] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller
[17:28:56] <JT-Shop> looks pretty comprehensive to me
[17:29:39] <JT-Shop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_theory
[17:29:56] * JT-Shop goes to take a nap
[17:30:00] <sliptonic> Thanks JT-Shop
[17:30:27] <JT-Shop> np
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[17:50:38] <jdh> we still have some huge ProLoop(tm) dedicated PID controllers.
[17:50:44] <mazafaka> JT-Shop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIDsnhCbzv8
[17:51:06] <pcw_home> For velocity mode drives at least its important to tune FF1 first (with just a low amount of P)
[17:51:08] <pcw_home> since the other terms since I especially will obscure FF1 adjustments
[17:51:12] <jdh> you adjust them with this weird configurator that looks like an ancient TI30 calculator with different keys.
[17:51:59] <pcw_home> and I especially
[17:52:22] <mazafaka> What do you guys think of thin chip for stainless steel - 0.125''
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[17:52:56] <mazafaka> oh, no, 0.002''
[17:54:05] <mazafaka> This mm-in is 'I am a mathematician' thing... :)
[17:59:27] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrgwZLGb4M 12 Head (part )cnc
[17:59:59] <IchGuckLive> and etch head is coliding with the fixure
[18:00:04] <IchGuckLive> bad G-code
[18:01:43] <kb8wmc> IchGuckLive: that is a nice machine
[18:02:26] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UDaBuAjUD4 <- Better for money making
[18:09:26] <IchGuckLive> amaldo is this yours ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW6M3FdSSnk
[18:14:10] <IchGuckLive> im off by
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[18:53:04] <mazafaka> Have just finished the document which regulates the routine of milling when the time wirk takes is being measured to calculate the revenue of workers according to payment rates/ We will think of it tomorrow at work...
[18:53:43] <mazafaka> s/it/wirk
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[19:38:16] <mutilator> alright guys, bosch colt or rigid 2401?
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[20:31:06] <JT-Shop> nuffofthisworkshit... time to play
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[21:03:50] <r00t4rd3d> Great halloween costume:
[21:03:50] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/ezusl.jpg
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[21:04:40] <BHSPiMonkey> r00t4rd3d: *disapproving groan*
[21:05:41] Jymmm\AE is now known as Jymmm
[21:07:07] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[21:14:59] <r00t4rd3d> Venezuelan pipe repair:
[21:15:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/twJo5.jpg
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[21:25:40] <gmouer> PCE: On a 7i77, is a unused GPIO pin able to be used for step/dir for a stepper motor, is it fast enough?
[21:25:54] <gmouer> PCW, Pete I mean't
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[21:29:07] <andypugh> It could be done. There is an option to run a base thread with the hm2_5i25.0.read-gpio and write-gpio threads in it.
[21:30:07] <gmouer> great, I might want to use a single stepper motor along with the servos, thanks
[21:32:25] <PCW> umm... there are no unused GPIO bits on the 7I77
[21:32:51] <PCW> (by GPIO I mean at the FPGA interface)
[21:33:24] <gmouer> opps, thought unused pins on the 7i77 could be used for GPIO I read
[21:33:41] <PCW> all pins are used
[21:34:14] <gmouer> must be mixing it up with the 7i76 I have also
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[21:35:18] <PCW> theres no reason not to use the second connector on the the 5I25 for a hardware stepgen (or GPIO) however
[21:36:10] <PCW> if you use the 7I77/7I76 config there are 5 available step/dir outputs on P2
[21:36:49] <gmouer> Thought I recalled in pncconf that if you used less than the number of devices those unused pins were showed as GPIO in the pncconf setup screen
[21:37:04] <PCW> so if you dont need buffering/isolation you can use the 5I25 lines directly
[21:37:40] <PCW> Yes but the signals going to the 7I77 are committed
[21:38:39] <PCW> but the second 5I25/6I25 connector is free
[21:38:45] <gmouer> now I understand... The second 5i25 port is easy enough, a cheap breakout board would give the isolation
[21:39:52] <gmouer> thanks much Pete, love the 7i76 and 7i77 combos I got
[21:39:57] <andypugh> You could put a normal D-sub header on it and pretend it's a parallel port. Albeit rather a quick one.
[21:40:06] <PCW> You can cheat and get one high speed output from the 7I77 (the serial out)
[21:41:24] <PCW> Yeah you can use the second port as just GPIO, or use a 7I77/7I76 config or a 7I77/7I78 config to get some hardware stepgens on the second port
[21:43:03] <PCW> Theres probotics BOB config as well but I dont think theres a 7I77/PRB config ATM
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[21:43:27] <r00t4rd3d> Super Skyrim Bros. -
http://i.imgur.com/yWkVw.jpg
[21:43:54] <PCW> andypugh: did you mention that you had a utility to write sserial parameters?
[21:44:08] <andypugh> Not yet.
[21:44:28] <gmouer> well, you gave me some options for driving that single stepper motor, thanks
[21:44:33] <JT-Shop> wow 500 spammers a day register
[21:44:33] <andypugh> It can be done, with fiddling, with the current release.
[21:45:13] <r00t4rd3d> jt thats amazing for how small the linuxcnc forums are.
[21:45:36] <PCW> Yeah tryin to help Matt Shaver simplify motor tuning
[21:45:41] <andypugh> JT-Shop: I have found that if you view 500, select-all at the top and unselect the ones that look like humans then delete the rest, it isn't that painful. And I deleted 370 this morning..
[21:45:44] <JT-Shop> yea, they like out of date joomla
[21:45:48] <r00t4rd3d> but if you have a wide open door with garbage forum software, i guess you ask for that.
[21:46:01] <JT-Shop> holy crap then it is >800 per day
[21:46:43] <andypugh> Two new folks, both gmailers though.
[21:47:26] <JT-Shop> crumb
[21:57:27] <andypugh> A crumb of consolation, you mean?
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[22:21:07] <BHSPiMonkey> wooo, just ordered some endmills
[22:21:19] <BHSPiMonkey> my theoretical collection of parts is growing
[22:21:58] <pfred1> I buy endmills at flea markets
[22:22:09] <pfred1> buck a pop
[22:22:24] <BHSPiMonkey> but then I'd have to spend time and gas locating / driving to one
[22:22:33] <pfred1> well I'm going anyways
[22:22:35] <BHSPiMonkey> under the assumption that they would even have them
[22:22:52] <pfred1> yeah I haven't seen any in a while i could kick myself I didn't buy the last guy out
[22:23:36] <BHSPiMonkey> what in particular about a flea market makes it better poised than ebay for offering lower prices, anyway?
[22:24:02] <pfred1> last time I went all I got were escutcheon pins
[22:24:07] <BHSPiMonkey> is someone at your flea market just buying them in surplus overseas?
[22:24:16] <pfred1> but I did get those 5 boxes for a dollar
[22:24:46] <pfred1> nah i get domestic endmills like machine shop quality
[22:25:00] <pfred1> ones that'd normally cost $20 and up
[22:25:41] <pfred1> I don't ask people how they came across what they have
[22:26:31] <pfred1> one time I was at an estate sale and the whole basement of the house i was in was jamb packed with machine shop stuff
[22:26:47] <pfred1> but I was in the process of moving and i just couldn't take it on then
[22:26:54] <BHSPiMonkey> this is what I grabbed
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MICRO-MACHINING-KIT-10-NEW-CARBIDE-ENDMILLS-METRIC-/380469360194?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5895bdb642
[22:27:05] <BHSPiMonkey> based on a forum recommendation since I don't know what I'm doing
[22:27:07] <pfred1> but every handful os stuff I brought up to the girl that was there she would say to me give me $3
[22:27:19] <BHSPiMonkey> heh, nice
[22:27:39] <BHSPiMonkey> although also a bit of a downer
[22:27:54] <pfred1> I was getting stuff like mitutoyo depth gauges and parallels
[22:28:19] <pfred1> I could have went back the next day and bought the lot for peanuts
[22:28:33] <pfred1> but i couldn't move it all
[22:28:54] <BHSPiMonkey> some day it'll be our estate sales, and our daughters/etc. will be the ones selling our gadgets and tools by the handful
[22:28:55] <pfred1> I mean a lifetime of collecting
[22:29:00] <BHSPiMonkey> for 3 bucks
[22:29:37] <pfred1> well I'm trying to buy it all for $3 so it'll be even in the end
[22:30:35] <pfred1> I get stuff on the used market I'd never buy retail
[22:30:55] <pfred1> like once i got this swiss ultra high speed pneumatic die grinder for $10
[22:31:02] <pfred1> thing probably cost $400 new
[22:31:41] <pfred1> only reason I bought it was because I saw it and the price was right
[22:32:34] <pfred1> but you have to be patient to buy tools secondhand
[22:33:02] <pfred1> lately I've been getting Disston D8 handsaws for $3 a piece
[22:33:14] <pfred1> they sell for $130 on Ebay
[22:38:56] <andypugh> I have two Wohlhaupter boring heads, I paid less than £120 for each. That is quite a lot of money, but when they are £4000 new....
[22:39:29] <pfred1> andypugh I want to take a trip to the rust belt in this country someday
[22:39:39] <pfred1> there machinery goes begging!
[22:40:12] <pfred1> a buddy of mine got a CNC-1 for the price of taking it away
[22:40:57] <pfred1> well he was a buddy of mine back then I don't know what ever happened to him or that machine
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[22:54:26] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/Qm8rz.jpg
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[22:58:38] <r00t4rd3d> 50
[22:59:32] <pfred1> 42
[22:59:51] <r00t4rd3d> yeah it cost me 6 bucks for the piece of oak
[23:00:18] <pfred1> I grow some amazing oak
[23:00:23] <r00t4rd3d> and it probably got 2 bucks worth of stain
[23:00:28] <pfred1> stuff is heavy like iron
[23:00:49] <pfred1> I cut one tree down and I couldn't even pick up the stump
[23:01:02] <r00t4rd3d> send me some burl
[23:01:22] <pfred1> turns out the oak around here is renowned
[23:01:54] <pfred1> something about the climate I don't know
[23:01:56] <r00t4rd3d> where you live?
[23:02:00] <pfred1> Delaware
[23:02:15] <r00t4rd3d> you have a port. sawmill ?
[23:02:19] <pfred1> cabinet makers don't want the stuff because it is too hard t owork
[23:04:02] <pfred1> I don't know if the picture really does it justice or not
http://i.imgur.com/QPZtB.jpg
[23:04:13] <pfred1> but that is some mighty close grained oak
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[23:14:32] <andypugh> Yes, that looks like nice stuff.
[23:14:44] <andypugh> I like working oak, especially when it's green.
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[23:15:35] <andypugh> I need to take a phot of the settle I made.
[23:16:50] <pfred1> andypugh I have nails I put into it and I drilled the starter holes not much smaller it was still tough to drive them
[23:17:06] <pfred1> well they're more spikes
[23:17:12] <andypugh> Nails? Ewww!
[23:17:16] <pfred1> 3/8s shanks as i can recall
[23:17:46] <andypugh> A lot of the stuff I built with oak was 1" diameter oak pegs.
[23:18:03] <andypugh> Probably spent 10x as long shaving the pegs as drilling the holes.
[23:18:13] <pfred1> pegs would have been a good way to go too but I didn't want the piece coming apart
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[23:18:36] <pfred1> and I wanted the nails as details
[23:18:58] <pfred1> there are like foot long nails with large heads
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[23:20:10] <andypugh> We wanted something that would last. Nails supposedly corrode in oak. (when I say "last" I mean 500 years)
[23:20:31] <pfred1> I'm not going to be around in 500 years
[23:20:49] <pfred1> he spikes i drove in will last the rest of my lifetime though
[23:20:59] <andypugh> Nor me, but I hope the house will be. It's managed the first 500.
[23:21:17] <pfred1> I've no hopes beyond my own life
[23:21:33] <pfred1> not too concerned about it really
[23:22:10] <pfred1> right now I'm hoping I'll be able to live a comfortable life
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[23:40:51] <Tom_itx> what is the hardest tight grain wood?
[23:41:06] <Tom_itx> just happened to be looking for some hardwood myself
[23:41:22] <andypugh> Ironwood has the reputation
[23:41:22] <Tom_itx> i came up with hard maple, beech and dogwood
[23:41:32] <Tom_itx> that are obtainable in the US
[23:41:46] <JT-Shop> ironwood is the first thing that came to my mind too
[23:41:56] <Tom_itx> i need to make a 1.5" dowel with 3 tpi threads on it
[23:42:13] <Tom_itx> i found a piece of hard maple i'm gonna try
[23:42:25] <Tom_itx> oak sure as hell doesn't work
[23:42:44] <andypugh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janka_hardness_test suggest Lignum Vitae
[23:43:24] <skunkworks__> hickey? white oak?
[23:43:39] <Tom_itx> i also wondered about hedgewood
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[23:44:58] <JT-Shop> what failed with oak?
[23:45:04] <andypugh> They used Lignum Vitae for the prop shaft bearings of the first nuclear sub. Marvellous.
[23:45:13] <Tom_itx> cutting the threads just shattered the wood
[23:45:26] <skunkworks__> what kind of cutter?
[23:45:32] <JT-Shop> you using a razor sharp cutter?
[23:45:37] <Tom_itx> yes
[23:45:40] <skunkworks__> You would want something with quite a sharp curved edge..
[23:46:03] <Tom_itx> yeah
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[23:47:37] <Tom_itx> http://tom-itx.dyndns.org:81/~webpage/cnc/Lathe/thread.jpg
[23:47:43] <Tom_itx> that's what i'm tryin to fix
[23:48:19] <Tom_itx> not that the scar will keep it from working but whoever glued it in glued it wrong
[23:48:31] <Tom_itx> so that when it's in place it is in the wrong position
[23:49:47] <andypugh> Ideally you would cut the thread with live tooling.
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[23:49:55] <Tom_itx> yeah i know
[23:50:05] <Tom_itx> it's not ideal though
[23:50:53] <Tom_itx> i may end up replacing it with aluminum or steel as well
[23:51:06] <andypugh> I don't know how you would grind a tool for the job, but I suspect with a _very_ positive rake, and using a compound angle so that it only cuts on the one edge. (because you can't grind edges that meet both with enough rake)
[23:51:09] <JT-Shop> might take a multi-pass approach and take tiny cuts and stagger the Z start a bit for the first part of the thread
[23:51:34] <Tom_itx> it's a manual lathe
[23:51:45] <andypugh> I did that (cradek's idea) for the 3mm pitch on my lathe chuck backplate.
[23:52:07] <andypugh> Buid a big thread out of the little triangles of little threads.
[23:52:30] <JT-Shop> can you move the compound back and forth for each pass so you don't put much side load on the thread peak
[23:52:46] <Tom_itx> yeah
[23:53:01] <Tom_itx> i thought about cutting the 2 sides and working my way to the center of it
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[23:54:41] <Tom_itx> i think if i can knife edge both edges of the vee it will cut better but grinding that won't be that easy
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[23:56:01] <JT-Shop> http://www.garrettwade.com/wood-threader-and-tap-die-set/p/98N11.01/
[23:56:39] <skunkworks__> those are really slick...
