#linuxcnc | Logs for 2012-10-16

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[00:05:42] <andypugh> evokanevo: PCI parallel cards are as good as any other parallel port.
[00:06:56] <andypugh> And probably good enough for many purposes. They can typically run steppers as fast as steppers can go unless the drive microstepping is very high. They tend to show their limits earlier with encoder counting.
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[00:08:57] <evokanevo> ok. i have 10x microstepping, so i imagine that's not pushing the limit.
[00:09:18] <evokanevo> thanks guys. i'll give it a shot. worst case is i overspent 15 bucks
[00:10:20] <andypugh> 10x might be
[00:10:44] <Tom_itx> my 203v run 10x on the mesa stuff, i've never tried parport
[00:10:57] <andypugh> DO you know what latency your PC runs at?
[00:12:13] <evokanevo> umm, i think the loop is set for 30k/second, but i don't recall what the jitter was. is 12 microseconds outlandish?
[00:12:21] <evokanevo> i can boot and double-check
[00:15:09] <andypugh> 12uS sounds plausible enough.
[00:16:09] <jthornton> I've run my 203v's off of the parallel port
[00:16:25] <andypugh> 30kHz at 10x uStep = 900rpm.
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[00:16:48] <jthornton> I'm glad Andy can do that math in his head :)
[00:16:51] <evokanevo> Yes, it looks like max jitter is around 13 microseconds. I currently run my 10x steppers off a parallel port - my question was really just whether a plugin card could be ruled out.
[00:17:07] <andypugh> (though there is the problem that the next speed down from 900rpm is 450 rpm.
[00:17:20] <andypugh> So you will probably not get 900.
[00:18:45] <andypugh> No, a plug-in card will work fine. But if that card is $15 for only a lot more ($60) you could have a Mesa 5i25 and not need to worry about speed.
[00:19:26] <andypugh> Sorry, $89 now I look.
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[00:24:40] <evokanevo> Sounds good. I'll do the basic card for now and perhaps end up with a Mesa. I mostly want to be up and running before trying something new (Mesa).
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[00:32:46] <tjb1> Any HR people care to take a look at my resume before the career fair tomorrow?
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[00:34:02] <jthornton> can you chop wood and hunt bear?
[00:34:06] <jdh> HR people don't CNC
[00:34:26] <jthornton> you would be suprised
[00:34:32] <jthornton> surprised
[00:34:44] <tjb1> Seriously, can someone look over it? :)
[00:35:06] <Tom_itx> jthornton, what's this drill tap chart you were working on the other day?
[00:35:32] <jthornton> http://imagebin.org/232071
[00:35:35] <jdh> HR people crawl back in to the slime after work.
[00:35:54] <tjb1> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3090951/resumecheck.pdf
[00:36:22] <Tom_itx> jthornton, did you see their formula on that site i posted?
[00:36:30] <Tom_itx> i think it was for 60% thread
[00:36:31] <jthornton> I think so
[00:36:38] <Tom_itx> it was easy to calc
[00:36:53] <Tom_itx> just subtract a thread pitch from the diameter for the drill
[00:40:22] <jthornton> tjb1, looks good to me no bullshit fillers, just the facts ma'am
[00:40:42] <tjb1> Thanks jthornton
[00:42:06] <jthornton> Tom_itx, this app gives you the thread percentage for the drill bits you have on hand so you can choose the most appropriate bit for the job at hand
[00:42:36] <Tom_itx> as a good machinist you're supposed to have a full set
[00:42:48] <jthornton> say your threading uhmw and you want 100% thread if possible, you just pick the tap and look at your options
[00:43:13] <Tom_itx> i generally just hold the bit in front of the tap and eyeball it
[00:43:28] <jthornton> well he may not have metric drills or if he is a home shop machinist he may not have letter and number drills either.
[00:43:34] <jthornton> that works too
[00:43:47] <jthornton> but if your bored you fire up my app
[00:43:54] <Tom_itx> i did one in wood the other day i purposely made the hole undersize
[00:44:08] <Tom_itx> and let the tap cut what it would
[00:44:29] <Tom_itx> i like that thing andy posted a few days back
[00:44:31] <jthornton> I've tapped without a hole in 6061 before
[00:44:51] <Tom_itx> for feed/speed
[00:44:57] <Tom_itx> fswizzard
[00:45:15] <Tom_itx> gives materials etc
[00:45:28] <jthornton> yea, they seem to get overly complicated for some reason
[00:45:53] <jthornton> he has just reworked it today if you have not seen
[00:46:02] <Tom_itx> what?
[00:46:09] <jthornton> I don't like it because it is windows or web based
[00:46:12] <jthornton> fswizzard
[00:46:15] <Tom_itx> really?
[00:46:20] <Tom_itx> hmm
[00:46:30] <Tom_itx> not sure i even kept the link
[00:46:44] <Tom_itx> it seemed fairly close to what we used to run stuff at
[00:46:44] <jthornton> yea today he released a new version
[00:47:06] <jthornton> try zero-divide.net
[00:47:28] <jthornton> time to veg
[00:47:34] <jthornton> say goodnight Gracie
[00:47:46] <Tom_itx> i was gonna solder until i found out i was short on parts
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[00:53:04] <Tom_itx> tjb1, you didn't mention #linuxcnc :)
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[00:54:13] <tjb1> Knowledeable in annoying the people in #linuxcnc? :)
[00:58:21] <tjb1> jthornton: I went with 12 gauge for my water table..it was cheaper
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[01:10:35] <r00t4rd3d> you should try 12gauge for your tooth brush too.
[01:11:15] <r00t4rd3d> oo
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[01:54:10] <tjb1> Hey r00t4rd3d
[01:54:15] <tjb1> You should fulfill my earlier request
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[02:58:17] <r00t4rd3d> there has to be something decent other then sheetcam for plasma stuff
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[03:25:25] <tjb1> Find it for me
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[05:54:54] <automata_> mhaberler: xenomai kernal task latency values are close to 5 - 15 us
[05:55:27] <automata_> so we can use it for fairly fast steppers too on intel atom single core architectures..
[06:00:36] <automata_> two instances of glxgears and 5 tabs of firefox open.. worst case latency in a kernel task is 23us
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[06:51:49] <Valen00> automata, one thing to check for your latency numbers, Sometimes there is a large spike when starting an openGL program, like glxgears, that never happens after then
[06:52:26] <Valen00> our latency spikes to ~30k on starting an open GL window. After that it sits around 4K
[06:55:16] <automata> in xenomai with a kernel task, regular latency is around 2us
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[06:58:15] <automata_> average latency is about 2 us worst case is 30 us
[06:58:22] <automata_> so the numbers are comparable to RTAI
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[06:59:02] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:06:03] <Valen00> I've often wondered about putting the latency back into the Rt task, and have it get called X early and just spin untill it is bang on the right time
[07:07:57] <Valen00> the amount you could *do* in the task would be reduced, because you loose the tail end of one task to the busywait of the next but still
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[07:38:39] <Cylly> mornin'
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[07:40:04] <Loetmichel> grrr, wrong nick... (cylly) again: mornin'
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[12:51:13] <IchGuckLive> someone knows if there is a sample config for the 5i25+7i76
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[12:51:52] <jthornton> yea, same as a stepper 5i20 config except the board name or ....
[12:52:19] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/linuxcnc/configs/index.html
[12:58:18] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: i got this already is the firmware needed for 2.5 or ias it inside already thats why im asking i got no I-Access in the education faciliti
[12:58:35] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?HostMot2 her it is not up to date
[13:00:23] <IchGuckLive> i dont think the live CD has that already in place
[13:01:18] <jthornton> firmware is preloaded in the 5i25
[13:01:50] <IchGuckLive> i will plug the board in and see what happens with this config files
[13:02:22] <jthornton> don't forget field power if you want to see/use any of the I/O
[13:02:34] <IchGuckLive> i know TB1
[13:03:04] <jthornton> ok just checking
[13:03:17] <IchGuckLive> not clear to other language is the thing with the 5V over the parport cable
[13:03:49] <IchGuckLive> is it better to go for this on 5 axis or put up a stable 5V generator
[13:04:59] <jthornton> I used cable power on my 7i76 but needed a separate 5v for my 7i77 due to the number of encoders
[13:05:15] <IchGuckLive> ok
[13:05:38] <IchGuckLive> so start with the cable jumpers and see if it works out
[13:06:10] <IchGuckLive> but as the mashine is running for 8-10hrs it is maybe better to go 5v externel at all
[13:06:34] <jthornton> only if you have a big load on the 5v buss like a bunch of encoders
[13:06:51] <IchGuckLive> no encoders
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[13:09:36] <IchGuckLive> jthornton: do i need this pin config file for the pncconf withard
[13:09:53] <IchGuckLive> or can i config this as it is plugt in via stepconf
[13:10:20] <IchGuckLive> as he maight know the plugt in card regenice it
[13:10:28] <jthornton> that is an excellent question for Chris Morley...
[13:10:54] <jthornton> I'd just modify the sample config
[13:11:05] <IchGuckLive> i will do so 2
[13:11:42] <IchGuckLive> some of my students managed to get the mashine reprogrammed as he found stepconf
[13:12:03] <jthornton> lol, remove it from the menu
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[13:13:50] <mazafaka> Who is Chris Morley, IchGuckLive ?
[13:15:11] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: a very importent man
[13:15:23] <mazafaka> As I asked before, is it a good tactics to use the tip of the end mill bit, hardly its side surface. and sharpen the tip when it's needed?
[13:15:44] <mazafaka> IchGuckLive: importent where and in what area of expertise?
[13:16:09] <IchGuckLive> wizard programming
[13:16:48] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: end mills are so cheep V-bits is more interesting
[13:17:23] <mazafaka> V-bits? What is it?
[13:18:26] <mazafaka> IchGuckLive: imagine a work of contour-milling of 40 mm thick hardening steel plates usin d20 mm end mills
[13:19:23] <IchGuckLive> oh then use a 9 teeth tool
[13:19:24] <mazafaka> The workflow is cheap, but the pay not much, so i am about to change the job. One occupation is some formerly secrret underground shop of one plant
[13:19:47] <IchGuckLive> co8 cant be sharpen on HM
[13:20:05] <mazafaka> d20 mm end mills has five flutes, 90-315 RPMs and 15-200 mm/min as feedrate
[13:20:36] <mazafaka> depends on the way cooland is presented, otherwise the mill bit burns
[13:20:48] <IchGuckLive> for HRC50+ we use 9 teeth cutter at 1mm steps
[13:20:52] <mazafaka> 'co8' what is it?
[13:21:09] <IchGuckLive> the cutter hardness
[13:22:19] <mazafaka> We have only cheap HSS end mills, diameter of 30 mm for HSS end mills is probably the biggest one. Mill bits with inserts are being bought to another milling machine, I had not dealt with them yet...
[13:23:25] <IchGuckLive> what is the metall number 1.2316
[13:23:32] <IchGuckLive> 1.1730
[13:24:15] <IchGuckLive> hss is to use with low steel quality
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[13:24:42] <IchGuckLive> VHM is for realy good milling on big stable mashines
[13:25:53] <IchGuckLive> mazafaka: http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-STK-VHM-FRAISA-SCHAFTFRASER-D-20MM-Z-8-FRASER-/130724920049?pt=Fr%C3%A4sen&hash=item1e6fcffaf1
[13:26:10] <IchGuckLive> this is realy good stuff
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[13:26:25] <mutilator> for usb -> parallel what do you guys recommend?
[13:26:42] <IchGuckLive> on linuxccn
[13:26:42] <mutilator> i see there are a few choices
[13:26:48] <mutilator> so support wise
[13:27:05] <IchGuckLive> HP compatible wirks
[13:27:10] <IchGuckLive> works
[13:27:14] <IchGuckLive> B)
[13:27:32] <IchGuckLive> the epson standard may not support your needs
[13:27:51] <mutilator> ..
[13:28:01] <IchGuckLive> im off by till 19:000 MEZ
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[13:28:59] <archivist> mutilator, I am not aware of any usb to parallel working with linuxcnc
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[13:34:40] <archivist> the latency of usb stops it being used for realtime control
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[13:35:58] <r00t4rd3d> how are they making usb controllers then?
[13:36:11] <r00t4rd3d> or how are they making them work
[13:37:30] <alex_joni> by putting some smarts in the usb controller
[13:37:35] <alex_joni> and buffering things
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[13:37:51] <alex_joni> so you send lots of data at various (not fixed) times intervals
[13:38:45] <alex_joni> so in your case it'll be something like lcnc commanding some steps, which don't get to the parport, they get buffered, then after a while they arrive all at once at the parport
[13:39:18] <mutilator> none?
[13:39:33] <mutilator> like i was looking at uc100
[13:39:35] <mutilator> and smoothstepper
[13:39:57] <mutilator> they have mach3 support but i didnt look for emc support
[13:40:48] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.probotix.com/pxb-usb_usb_interfaced_cnc_controller/
[13:41:00] <r00t4rd3d> Standard RS274/NGC G-code (EMC2 compatible)
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[13:44:48] <mutilator> o_O
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[13:45:05] <alex_joni> check http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[13:45:18] <alex_joni> and http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Emc2HardwareDesign
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[13:48:52] <mutilator> guess i have to dig a pc out of the grave yard then
[13:49:27] <r00t4rd3d> fanboi?
[13:51:25] <mutilator> ?
[13:51:53] <r00t4rd3d> apple user
[13:52:38] <mazafaka> " http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-STK-VHM-FRAISA-SCHAFTFRASER-D-20MM-Z-8-FRASER-/130724920049?pt=Fr%C3%A4sen&hash=item1e6fcffaf1 " <-- we had one for wFL, and used on this machine untill it was broken...
[13:52:44] <mutilator> i work at a school, i have closets full of old pcs
[13:53:57] <r00t4rd3d> mazafaka, what kinda bit is that?
[13:54:37] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: there was one http://www.ebay.de/itm/1-STK-VHM-FRAISA-SCHAFTFRASER-D-20MM-Z-8-FRASER-/130724920049?pt=Fr%C3%A4sen&hash=item1e6fcffaf1 , someone had broken it, and now there are only HSS
[13:54:48] <r00t4rd3d> i cant read german
[13:55:03] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: there's a picture
[13:55:48] <r00t4rd3d> apparently you have the same problem with english
[13:56:08] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: i have given you a link with photo
[13:56:27] <r00t4rd3d> yeah i realize, curious as to what kind of bit that is
[13:57:01] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: this is of what IchGukLive was talking about
[13:59:05] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: some VHM @VHM is for realy good milling on big stable mashines@
[14:00:30] <mazafaka> r00t4rd3d: http://www.voha-tosec.de/tl_files/Prospekte/TOS_HPC_Flyer_engl.pdf
[14:00:42] <mazafaka> we had one for WFL center
[14:04:23] <mazafaka> Would anyone of you try to sharpen HSS end mill of small diameter with lots of flutes (not 3 for d18-20 mm, but 5 for d20 mm)?
[14:05:25] <mazafaka> In civillife, I only capable sharpen its tip, only 2-4 mm, thereby reducing its height'
[14:06:52] <mazafaka> Indexable Endmills are good, but not cheap
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[14:10:59] <jdh> buy the indexable end mill. Save money by not eating for a day or three.
[14:11:20] <mazafaka> jdh: maybe, maybe...
[14:11:34] <mazafaka> students can break it
[14:11:57] <jdh> oh, I meant for personal use.
[14:12:07] <jdh> I wouldn't buy anything for students to use.
[14:12:34] <mazafaka> I left a student with mill working and he havs set up a bigger RPMs and burned the enmill
[14:13:35] <mazafaka> ...so as coolant couldn't cool it down, and the inserts and the indexable mill itself were kind of broken
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[14:26:33] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.cnczone.com/forums/1181942-post1654.html
[14:26:48] <r00t4rd3d> he makes some nice Z axis
[14:27:59] <r00t4rd3d> $159 + shipping
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[15:51:38] * djdelorie needs to rebuild his Z axis, but not any time soon...
[15:57:16] * Loetmichel has to dismantle his machine completely and change all three acme thrad nuts... have run out of adjusting space in them and still have some slack in x ... -> worn down.
[15:58:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.dumpstercnc.com/
[15:58:22] <r00t4rd3d> they got some good nuts
[15:58:37] <jdh> $1800 http://images.craigslist.org/3E33Kf3H35L65Ea5Hacag3a948065fd8d15fd.jpg
[15:58:48] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: made them myseld from delrin
[15:58:58] <Loetmichel> so: have to make some new ones ;-)
[15:59:17] <djdelorie> my Z nuts are maple...
[15:59:28] <djdelorie> actually worked quite well, too!
[15:59:33] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12539&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[15:59:45] <Loetmichel> maple?
[15:59:48] <Loetmichel> tha wood?
[16:00:24] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: the problem is more thats a PITA to get to the nus on my machine
[16:00:40] <Loetmichel> nuts
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[16:00:59] <r00t4rd3d> give it a couple beers first
[16:01:51] <djdelorie> yes, maple the wood
[16:02:14] <Tugge> r00t4rd3d: These z-axels look very very nice. How can I contact this person?
[16:02:40] <r00t4rd3d> read the whole message
[16:03:07] <r00t4rd3d> oh wait
[16:03:29] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: http://www.delorie.com/photos/cnc/
[16:04:00] <r00t4rd3d> Tugge, do you have a cnczone forum account?
[16:04:33] <Tugge> Hmm., Not yet.. Maybe I just need to make the account.
[16:05:30] <r00t4rd3d> Tugge, [email protected]
[16:06:27] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: ouch, that looks a bit... "bendy"?
[16:06:31] <djdelorie> yup
[16:06:51] <djdelorie> not nearly as much as you'd think though
[16:07:03] <djdelorie> the big problem is the Z rails are not held rigidly enough
[16:07:05] <Tugge> r00t4rd3d: Thank you :)
[16:07:21] <Loetmichel> i know, i have nuild some CNC out of wood, but i see a few "design flaws"
[16:07:31] <Loetmichel> like the use of non supported rods
[16:07:37] <djdelorie> need to make it taller, with the Y rails further apart and longer Z rails
[16:08:23] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: the biggest one i have build: http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11205
[16:08:34] <Loetmichel> ... helped to build
[16:09:06] <djdelorie> my original goal was to make a sheet-capable one, where Z slop isn't a problem since it would only be used for pattern cutting. But recently I needed to do precision carving with it, so I'm noticing the problem
[16:09:58] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=4935 <- and onn this one i have milled Carbon, FR4 and wood, even aluminium on a 8hrs/5d week basis ;-)
[16:11:40] <r00t4rd3d> how do you set up 2 motors on the x axis with a tb6560?
[16:12:33] <Loetmichel> you mean y?
[16:12:45] <Loetmichel> simply on the same driver
[16:12:50] <Loetmichel> with double current
[16:13:06] <r00t4rd3d> how do you double the current?
[16:13:23] <Loetmichel> or use the C axis and bridge step/dir from the y axis
[16:13:32] <Loetmichel> r00t4rd3d: with the switches?
[16:14:11] <Loetmichel> if you are already at max: use a 4 driver card and bridge the input signals
[16:14:42] <Loetmichel> but the important part is the belt on the back to sync the motors
[16:15:10] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7080
[16:15:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=7086
[16:15:20] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=7083
[16:15:49] <r00t4rd3d> hmm, semms overly complicated
[16:16:04] <Loetmichel> didnt find a toothed belt in long enough
[16:16:18] <Loetmichel> so i had to do some "magic"
[16:16:19] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[16:17:48] <r00t4rd3d> is it a german thing to name the x axis y?
[16:18:55] <syyl> only if someone doesnt know how the axes are named correct ;)
[16:19:25] <r00t4rd3d> isnt it X north/south , Y west/east ?
[16:19:33] <syyl> x is allways the longest axis
[16:19:37] <syyl> always
[16:19:49] <syyl> z is always in line with the machines working spindle
[16:19:51] <syyl> always
[16:20:32] <jdh> alwyas?
[16:20:44] <djdelorie> always! Unless it isn't.
[16:20:53] <tjb1> A rotates around the X axis :P
[16:20:59] <syyl> correct
[16:21:00] <syyl> :)
[16:21:08] <tjb1> B around Y and C around Z
[16:21:30] <djdelorie> as long as the relative orientations are preserved, it shouldn't matter which one is "longest"
[16:21:45] <syyl> yes, right hand rule
[16:22:01] <syyl> but its a standard
[16:22:21] <syyl> works on lathes, grinders, milling machines
[16:22:32] <djdelorie> in my case, it was more important that the jog keys on the keyboard point in the same direction as the movement they cause
[16:22:43] <djdelorie> but I ended up moving the PC instead of changing the machine
[16:23:10] <r00t4rd3d> i was trying to do that yesterday with a joystick
[16:23:18] <r00t4rd3d> backwards movement
[16:23:25] <syyl> and now name the axes of a shaper ;)
[16:23:38] <djdelorie> george, fred, and paul?
[16:23:45] <djdelorie> ;-)
[16:23:54] <syyl> hmpf ;)
[16:24:17] <tjb1> One of the companies at the job fair gave me an eraseable highlighter o.o
[16:24:51] <syyl> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24396704/23_xyzw.jpg
[16:24:53] <syyl> ;)
[16:25:09] <Loetmichel> syyl: i beg to differ
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[16:25:23] <tjb1> Start begging :P
[16:25:42] <jdh> tjb1: did they give you a job?
[16:26:04] <Loetmichel> x0 y0 is the left front corner of the machine, front depending on the intended place for the user.
[16:26:06] <tjb1> No jobs yet, most are hiring december graduates
[16:26:16] <Loetmichel> Z is the axix which follows gravity
[16:26:24] <syyl> and on a lathe?
[16:26:34] <Loetmichel> for milling machines
[16:26:44] <syyl> horizontal milling machine?
[16:26:46] <tjb1> ESAB said they were looking for my major…they want a damn salesman
[16:26:49] <syyl> boring mill?
[16:27:02] <jdh> Sales Engineer!
[16:27:05] <Loetmichel> syyl: still the same,only that the tool rotates in y
[16:27:17] <syyl> wrong, Z
[16:27:57] <syyl> thats why there are standards :)
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[16:28:13] <syyl> they work on every machine
[16:28:22] <tjb1> jdh: I want to work at this one - http://www.ash-tec.com/
[16:28:29] <tjb1> or SECO
[16:28:36] <syyl> "i have a zero-axis bench grinder"
[16:28:40] <Loetmichel> syyl: do as you wish
[16:28:50] <syyl> i do, as everyone does :P
[16:29:04] <syyl> who has a clue about machines
[16:29:08] <Loetmichel> i was told otherwise by my instructor
[16:29:17] <jdh> doing what?
[16:29:29] <tjb1> They just got a laser at ashtec
[16:29:56] <syyl_ws> shoot him to the moon
[16:30:01] <syyl_ws> and show him the DIN-sheet
[16:30:17] <syyl_ws> or now ISO, i think
[16:31:05] <djdelorie> syll: nothing you've said so far gives you an excuse to be rude or to tell others they're doing it wrong just because they want to be different.
[16:31:28] <djdelorie> can't we all get along?
[16:31:30] <Loetmichel> hmmm, so i think: you got your opinion, i got mine. EOD
[16:33:00] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: i know him eye to eye (i think)... he isnt a bad person, just a bit "german" when it comes to [imagined] standards
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[16:33:22] <djdelorie> ah, I know that type of person. Understood :-)
[16:33:23] <syyl_ws> because they work out
[16:34:33] <Loetmichel> syyl: did you were on the meeting with spam and grobi? did i meet you there?
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[16:38:47] <syyl_ws> no
[16:42:47] <Loetmichel> so i doesent met him eye to eye, but i still think he isnt a bad person. and has a lot of knowledge... (with industrial machines, that is). @ djdelorie
[16:43:57] <syyl_ws> i heard other things of me :P
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[16:49:32] <Loetmichel> syyl_ws: what dud you hear? ;-)
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[16:52:06] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:52:13] <djdelorie> hi
[16:53:02] <IchGuckLive> is today a specel daay in the usa the soldiers are all off duty
[16:53:21] <jdh> huh?
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[16:53:45] <IchGuckLive> at the base stuff is not working
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[17:00:50] <r00t4rd3d> why are you monitoring our bases? Are you al qaeda or something ?
[17:00:54] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[17:01:32] <jdh> because, all your base
[17:04:53] <Loetmichel> *snicker*
[17:06:17] <archivist> but for all the standards nuts, when A is mounted on B and then B is rotated 90 degrees should one rename A !
[17:06:43] <tjb1> all your base belong to us
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[17:08:01] <tjb1> All the soldiers are never off duty Loetmichel...
[17:11:05] <IchGuckLive> no the brested girl next door wars here not expected O.O
[17:13:12] <Loetmichel> tjb1: its like the old joke: chancellor kohl and gorbatchov meet... kohl: "mr. gorbatchov, why dont you attack us on a sunday? you know that our bases are empty at the weekend...?" gorbatchov:" I know, i Know. Our bases are not emty, but all soldiers are drunken"
[17:13:13] <Loetmichel> ;-)
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[17:17:17] <tjb1> jdh: Im going to work for Hardinge
[17:19:54] <IchGuckLive> i just finish G-coding of my sculp
[17:20:27] <IchGuckLive> 16Mb G-code
[17:20:38] <IchGuckLive> oh that will be a long mill
[17:21:00] <IchGuckLive> Greek statue at 2m Height
[17:21:20] <IchGuckLive> 25mm cutter at 350mm long
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[17:26:16] <automata> hi mhaberler
[17:26:35] <mhaberler> hi automata
[17:31:23] <Loetmichel> djdelorie: for your wooden CNC: at leas put some sheet metal around the transformer
[17:31:36] <Connor> So, what kind of Coolant does everyone use? I picked up some Premier 600 coolant.. Not used it yet, but, just read that it can stain Aluminum.. Which is what I'll be cutting mostly.
[17:31:39] <Loetmichel> so that it cant startt a fire when overheated
[17:31:47] <jdh> I use ambient air.
[17:32:25] <Loetmichel> <- ambient air and seldomly IPA or petroleum for aluminium
[17:32:39] <Connor> jdh: :) I've got my flood coolant system done.. Just need to wire it up.
[17:32:47] <Loetmichel> out of a Pump spray bottle
[17:32:52] <jdh> connor: finish the belt drive and controller?
[17:33:25] <Connor> jdh: Yes, Still need to change out the bearings in the spindle.
[17:33:36] <jdh> heh... find any lube?
[17:33:39] <Connor> Need to mount the controller in a enclosure.. it's big..
[17:34:06] <Connor> Just the stuff locally... I guess I'll just order some Kluber ISO Flex.
[17:34:25] <djdelorie> Loetmichel: what's the fun in that? ;-)
[17:34:26] <jdh> what controller did you end up with? KBIC or treadmill?
[17:34:46] <Connor> KBIC Reversable. :)
[17:35:07] <jdh> cool. ebay? how quickly does it reverse?
[17:35:23] <jdh> does the c10 do reversal fast enough for rigid tapping?
[17:35:38] <Connor> Yea, Ebay. Says 30 times a second, allowing 1 second between.
[17:35:53] <Connor> Don't have the C10 hooked up yet.
[17:36:16] <Connor> err. wait.. C10 ?
[17:36:18] <jdh> I just meant the time between you requesting reversal and it actually reversing. My c10 seems laggy on start/stop
[17:36:26] <tjb1> Im getting tired of GTS-Welco not answering the phone...
[17:36:36] <jdh> err... c-whatever
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[17:36:40] <jdh> the spindle controller
[17:37:25] <Connor> C6
[17:37:50] <jdh> yeah, that.
[17:38:24] <Connor> Shouldn't matter on the speed of the reversal. LinuxCNC adjusts the Z movement to the spindle.. so, it won't move if it's stopped.
[17:39:02] <Connor> Speed controller has dynamic break too :)
[17:39:14] <Connor> I'm NOT happy with my machining job on the pulleys..
[17:39:27] <Connor> Run-out too much... I get vibrations..
[17:39:30] <jdh> buy new ones
[17:40:03] <Connor> I'll have to.. and I'll have someone with better equipment and experience machine them.
[17:40:05] <archivist> mount pulley in a wood chuck on a lathe and fix
[17:40:36] <jdh> overbore and use an insert?
[17:41:18] <Connor> The one for the spindle MIGHT be able to be salvaged due to how it's designed..
[17:41:23] <Connor> to fit onto the spindle.
[17:41:56] <archivist> wood chuck is just a bit of woof mounted on a faceplate and a recess bored to a friction fit then item pushed in and lightly machined
[17:41:59] <Connor> problem is, trying to get it concentric..
[17:43:32] <IchGuckLive> http://mechmo.de/venus.png To be milled tomorrow
[17:43:58] <IchGuckLive> this is a Blender3D render of the mesh
[17:44:20] <tjb1> And you need a 14" endmill for that?
[17:46:04] <IchGuckLive> length
[17:46:51] <IchGuckLive> hope it reatches the deepest point at 48x mm
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[17:47:10] <IchGuckLive> im on python getting the lowest point wait
[17:49:16] <IchGuckLive> 463mm below so 33 mm above rot axis
[17:49:24] <IchGuckLive> 37
[17:49:40] <IchGuckLive> i need to d a full sim
[17:49:49] <IchGuckLive> do
[17:54:49] <IchGuckLive> Rouph 361min
[17:56:06] <IchGuckLive> tjb1: http://3dcutting.com/solutions/frogtools.html
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[18:04:26] <IchGuckLive> im off By
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[18:37:03] <archivist> andypugh, did you teh giggles at that drawing :)
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[19:21:57] <tom3p> can anyone reproduce this? make gladevcp with 2x2table, populate 1st column with 2 btns, 2nd column with 2 meters. axis wont render the 2nd column at all.
[19:22:00] <tom3p> add a 3rd row or column, add anything after the 2nd meter, and its ok
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[19:52:36] <Kirk_Wallace> JT-Shop: I'm trying the GladeVCP tutorial on a non LinuxCNC PC. In a terminal, I changed to the directory with the .glade and .py files but running the .py just returns without any message. Do you have any hints while I am looking for more verbose output from Python?
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[20:03:38] <Kirk_Wallace> JT-Shop: Well that was embarrassing, my .py file turned out to be an empty file. I pasted the tutorial .py text in to the empty file, eh voil�, it works. Thanks for your work on this tutorial.
[20:07:46] <JT-Shop> hi Kirk_Wallace
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[20:09:06] <Kirk_Wallace> JT-Shop: I'm trying to get up to speed with GladeVCP.
[20:09:46] <JT-Shop> cool
[20:10:06] <JT-Shop> you can do quite a bit right out of the box with GladeVCP
[20:12:16] <Kirk_Wallace> There seems to be some I can carry over from pyVCP.
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[20:12:49] <JT-Shop> I did not notice that
[20:14:02] <JT-Shop> did you see the drill bit calculator I'm working on?
[20:16:11] <Kirk_Wallace> Not yet. It may be a bit of a stretch, but the pyVCP .xml file layout might be similar to the object layout in the builder. I've only been at it about an hour so I may all wet.
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[20:16:39] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/232071
[20:17:06] <JT-Shop> I never looked at the glade file...
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[20:20:34] <Kirk_Wallace> I'm looking into making a Spindle/VFD tab for Axis that can display the extra data from Modbus.
[20:23:12] <Kirk_Wallace> Well I gota go water the squash. Ciao.
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[20:51:02] <andypugh> Sorry archivist I was coping with the aftermath of an attempt to break into my workshop :-(
[20:51:39] <archivist> nasty
[20:52:07] <andypugh> They were defeated by my home-made security device in the bottom corner. I feel the urge to add another now.
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[20:52:22] <archivist> I have had a couple here but was a bar stewrd looking for cash not toys
[20:52:51] <andypugh> They were after my enduro bike, I reckon. Unfortunately they now know that there is one in there.
[20:52:53] <archivist> I have a camera on as well now
[20:54:12] <andypugh> They were chased off by a couple of the neighbours.
[20:54:40] <andypugh> I was sort-of relying on obscurity, but by now every chav in Chalvedon knows that there is a garage full of good stuff there.
[20:54:43] <archivist> that helps as they now know people are around
[20:54:45] <Connor> what sort of home made security device did you have ?
[20:55:08] <andypugh> So I guess I now need to go for obvious impregnability. I am thinking checker-plate.
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[20:55:47] <archivist> my rear garage door is an old fire door
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[20:56:23] <tjb1> Tried to triple boot ubuntu...killed windows...tried to delete ubuntu...deleted windows...now i cant remove swap file
[20:56:28] <archivist> add some alarm boxes and cameras
[20:58:35] <archivist> andypugh, pc plod said the chavs hate lights that are switched on by infra red
[20:58:50] <andypugh> It was noon..
[20:59:06] <Connor> andypugh: What sorta security device stopped them?
[20:59:38] <andypugh> Connor: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3A7q9zo5XhrqVakkxGldzNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[20:59:47] <andypugh> 25mm stainless steel rod.
[20:59:59] <archivist> and remember what looks good to you is non understandable to the idiots
[21:00:55] <Connor> Yup. I could see that stumping someone..
[21:00:56] <andypugh> I like that design because there is no obvious brute-force attack.
[21:01:13] <Connor> Only way would be a angle grinder.
[21:01:21] <andypugh> It tends to just spin annoyingly :-)
[21:02:06] <andypugh> These were three youths who dodn't even bring tools. they just took running jumps at the door.
[21:03:14] <Connor> Stupid kids
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[21:03:52] <andypugh> It very nearly worked though.
[21:04:34] <jdh> would a noisy alarm have helped?
[21:04:43] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:05:10] <andypugh> They made enough noise bouncing off the door to alert the neighbours.
[21:05:20] <andypugh> I can see myslef buying one of these: http://securityforbikes.com/anti-pinch-pin.php
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[21:05:38] <Connor> Get one of those alarms with dog barking and growling.. and rig something up to the door to rattle it like the dog jumping on it..
[21:05:41] <andypugh> (Made by a mate)
[21:06:40] <andypugh> It's a separate garage. I don't think it will be convincing. I prefer the idea of a Kuka robot / shotgun experiment going tragically wrong.
[21:07:35] <archivist> self defence of ones property is getting easier :)
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[21:08:06] <archivist> chav damage is more legal than it used to be
[21:08:32] <JT-Shop> what is a chav in American?
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[21:08:52] <archivist> low life
[21:08:57] <andypugh> Semi-seriously, what _would_ be the legal situation if a robot and gun went "wrong" ?
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[21:09:32] <Connor> In America, I would say equilivant to gun behind a closed door..
[21:09:51] <andypugh> (I would have to make the gnu first, and that is horribly illegal :-)
[21:09:55] <Connor> I.E. you could be charged with a Felony Murder..
[21:10:13] <archivist> I suppose we have to wait for the promised law relaxation that was promised a week or so ago
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[21:14:47] <andypugh> I might be tempted by an insulated roller door. It might make for a nicer workshop: http://www.garagedoorsonline.co.uk/product_details2.php?group=Novoferm_NovoRol_classic_polyester_sgl_special_offer
[21:15:28] <Jymmm> Acid based paint??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfZp1r2-eiI&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[21:17:41] <jdh> here, you can't use deadly force to protect property
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[21:18:12] <archivist> you can here if your life is in danger :)
[21:18:18] <Connor> jdh: Isn't that a state-by-state thing?
[21:18:35] <jdh> that is self protection, not proprty.
[21:18:41] <Connor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
[21:18:53] <jdh> Connor: sure, and really some parts of states are different.
[21:19:12] <jdh> but, overall, you need to be in some sort of danger.
[21:19:20] <Connor> Read That.
[21:19:31] <Connor> NC has it.
[21:19:39] <jdh> I've read it.
[21:20:16] <Connor> TN has the Stand-your-ground law.. but, that's a bit different.
[21:20:55] <Jymmm> andypugh: I know you can't have a firearm, but can you get/buy ammo or blanks?
[21:21:07] <jdh> if someone is robbing you at gunpoint, you are not protectign your property, they have escalated to deadly force by virtue of the gun.
[21:21:44] <andypugh> To be honest I thunk these were fairly young. I would probably feel guilty if I broke one.
[21:21:51] <jdh> why?
[21:22:00] <tjb1> Then it couldnt reproduce
[21:22:01] <jdh> other than the 'yeah, they are humans' thing
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[21:23:54] <Jymmm> andypugh: There is this lil block of aluminum that you can insert a .22 nail ramset into, and a small steel cable that could be attached to a door
[21:24:27] <Jymmm> andypugh: I'm sure it scare off someone if they thought you were shooting at them
[21:24:34] <andypugh> I think I would really much rather they looked at the door and gave up.
[21:24:52] <jdh> better to be discouraged and leave before causing damage.
[21:25:13] <jdh> that bike thing might keep them from stealing it, but you might not be able to ride it again afterwards.
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[21:36:34] <andypugh> Well, the muddy one is currently chained to the milling machine.
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[21:42:10] <andypugh> Unusual application of CNC: http://www.virtualshoemuseum.com/giulia-tannini/blue-ring
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[21:56:04] <MattyMatt> that might as well be powder printed. it's unwearable either way
[21:56:28] <MattyMatt> bloody art students :)
[21:56:56] <andypugh> Unwearable by me or you, but someone short, girly and thin might get away with it.
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[21:57:20] <MattyMatt> and with a passion for standing still, against a wall
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[21:57:43] <andypugh> There are worse hobbies.
[21:58:56] * MattyMatt goes cow tipping, in nightclubs
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[22:01:56] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna make some willow soles for my worn out boots, now my 4th axis is working
[22:02:25] <MattyMatt> Dr Scholl's Patent Steelmaking Clogs
[22:04:47] <MattyMatt> http://imgur.com/a/DNWJq#1 it's still a bit Wood Age
[22:07:03] <MattyMatt> gotta remember to make the worm drive before that belt breaks
[22:07:11] <andypugh> Is "Wood Age" a Myst reference?
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[22:08:03] <andypugh> http://www.clogs.co.uk/safety%20page.htm
[22:08:09] <andypugh> (Safety clogs)
[22:08:27] <MattyMatt> not to my knowledge. in my AoE skit I call it Age Of Sticks, it comes just after Age Of Mud
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[22:09:31] <MattyMatt> rubber treads under the wood? doesn't that defeat the purpose?
[22:09:53] <MattyMatt> I thought wet willow was the only safe stuff for walking on molten steel
[22:10:23] <andypugh> I suspect that it is advised just not to. :-)
[22:10:51] <MattyMatt> meh that kind of advice destroyed sheffield for good
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[22:18:33] <MattyMatt> ah cool, they offer iron shod and bare wood options
[22:18:44] <MattyMatt> proper clogs
[22:20:51] <MattyMatt> http://www.clogs.co.uk/posters.htm excellent
[22:26:25] <MattyMatt> I'm gonna hafta learn kinetics if I start proper 4 axis milling. at the moment A axis just rotates the workpiece and the XYZ stays relative to the machine. that suits me for pulleys and stuff
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[22:40:39] <r00t4rd3d> http://mitchclem.com/images/amish.gif
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[23:02:12] <MattyMatt> DIWYS
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[23:13:12] <tjb1> I have failed twice at triple booting
[23:16:49] <alex_joni> and triple at dual booting?
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[23:17:20] <Gast324> Hello?
[23:17:26] <tjb1> No I had dual boot for a while but Ubuntu doesnt play nice with Windows 7...
[23:18:50] <Gast324> I have a question
[23:19:02] <Gast324> eny body can help me?
[23:19:14] <andypugh> Ask away
[23:19:40] <Gast324> IS about encoder control with emc2
[23:19:45] <andypugh> Or, as we say round here, "don't ask to ask, just ask"
[23:19:53] <andypugh> OK.
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[23:20:22] <Gast324> ok
[23:20:25] <Gast324> thank
[23:20:45] <andypugh> What do you want to do with the encoder?
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[23:21:11] <Gast324> I want to know if can paralel port to use to encoder inputs
[23:21:42] <andypugh> Yes, absolutely.
[23:22:21] <Gast324> why in emc2 refers to MASA cards to do this kind control?
[23:22:23] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/man/man9/encoder.9.html
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[23:23:34] <andypugh> It's hard to get more than 30kHz with the parallel port, and that might be a problem with a high line-count encoder and fast rotation.
[23:23:58] <andypugh> But if it is slow and/or low count, then it works well.
[23:24:13] <Gast324> ok
[23:24:15] <andypugh> The Mesa cards can count at 10MHz.
[23:24:57] <Gast324> and why the wizard configuration option lpt pors don't have encoder option inputs?
[23:25:02] <andypugh> Though the real advantage of the Pico and Mesa cards is that you can have many more than 17 pins. You can easily have thousands
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[23:25:33] <andypugh> The stepconf wizard is for steppers, and encoders are not very much help with steppers.
[23:27:15] <andypugh> What do you want the encoder for?
[23:27:42] <Gast324> for control servomotor
[23:28:03] <andypugh> OK, then stepconf is not likely to work well for you.
[23:28:26] <andypugh> You would be better looking at one of the parallel port servo sample configurations.
[23:29:23] <andypugh> "etch servo" is a very simple 2-axis example (for an etch-a-sketch) using parallel port PWM and encoder counting. I am not sure, though, that there are enough parallel port pins for a 3-axis servo.
[23:29:35] <Jymmm> Damn... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uYfSihXbFo&NR=1&feature=fvwp
[23:30:43] <andypugh> Jymmm: I like my cooking knives with a bolster.
[23:30:48] <Gast324> But can put 2 lpt ports
[23:30:58] <andypugh> True, you can.
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[23:31:13] <Jymmm> andypugh: you see the tomato?
[23:31:23] <andypugh> Jymmm: tldw
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[23:31:44] <Jymmm> andypugh: watch
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[23:32:06] <Jymmm> andypugh: theres FF, no excuse.
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[23:32:33] <Gast324> but there no are wizard configurator?
[23:32:49] <Gast324> for lpt port encoder configurator
[23:32:57] <andypugh> Gast324: PWM rate is possibly a little low for servo control on the parallel port/ At 30kHz base frequency you only get about 5kHz PWM frequency if you want reasonable resolution.
[23:33:49] <andypugh> (actualy, I got my maths wrong, you don't even get that, 2kHz would be pushing it)
[23:34:09] <andypugh> That gives you 15 possible voltages to drive the servo at.
[23:34:56] <andypugh> No, sorry, no wizards for parallel port servo. It's possible to do it, but the results are likely to be disappointing.
[23:35:41] <Gast324> ok.
[23:35:48] <Gast324> understand
[23:36:25] <Gast324> there are two way to control servomotors
[23:36:30] <andypugh> The Mesa 5i25/7i77 combination is around $200. (Call that €200 after import etc)
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[23:36:35] <Gast324> PWM and analog
[23:36:51] <Gast324> Ok. I Know
[23:37:08] <andypugh> PWM and analog are pretty much the same thing. The only way to make analog from a digital port is to filter a PWM.
[23:37:27] <andypugh> (Well, you _can_ use a DAC, and that is a possibility)
[23:37:47] <Gast324> do you know some D/A converter?
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[23:38:23] <andypugh> I don't know of any that are currently natively supported (other than the ones on the 7i77)
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[23:38:54] <andypugh> It ought to be possible to bit-bang SPI on the parallel port, but I don't know it it has been done.
[23:39:28] <Gast324> you recomend use 7i77 card?
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[23:40:29] <cpresser> Gast324: basically Mesa-cards are a good idea for a servo setup
[23:40:47] <andypugh> I think that the Pico PPMC or Mesa 7i77 will give you a better result than the parallel port. I started off with the parallel port myself, and upgraded after a few months.
[23:41:21] <andypugh> I will mention that I write a lot of the Mesa drivers, but I have no commercial involvement.
[23:41:53] <andypugh> I see no reason that you shouldn't try the parallel port first, though.
[23:42:25] <andypugh> It can work, and you can get your machine running quickly.
[23:42:39] <andypugh> (What is the machine?)
[23:43:21] <Gast324> is a myself fabric
[23:43:51] <Gast324> with a controltechniques servos and controllers
[23:45:47] <andypugh> I think the main problem you will have is that 30kHz base thread tends to mean that the PWM rate has to be about 1kHz. After filtering to analog that gives you maybe 250Hz bandwidth for the motor control, and that might not be enough.
[23:47:37] <Gast324> you say that i can't use a 7177 card?
[23:48:29] <andypugh> On the contrary, I rather think you _should_ use a 7i77 card. (and the 5i25 or 6i25 that is required to drive it)
[23:49:06] <andypugh> I am just saying that you _might_ be able to use a parallel port if you are in a hurry to see motors move.
[23:49:11] <Gast324> ok
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[23:50:49] <Gast324> summarizing. When i control servomotors with PWM use 5i25 card
[23:51:11] <Gast324> and when control servomotors with analog use 7i77 card
[23:51:16] <Gast324> �no?
[23:53:45] <andypugh> Well, the 5i25 doesn't have that many pins. (though there are 50 total, so it beats 2xparallel ports)
[23:54:51] <andypugh> It is more that the 7i77 is a convenient way to wire things, and adds a lot of extra IO pins (they connect through a serial interface, so 48 IO pins use 2 pins on the connector)
[23:56:15] <andypugh> If you want to use PWM to the drives (and they accept PWM) then you could also look at the Mesa 7i43. And the Pico PPMC.
[23:56:50] <andypugh> Both of those connect to a parallel port, but use it as a communications bus, and generate PWM / Count encoders in hardware.
[23:58:02] <andypugh> The fact remains though, that 5i25 + 7i77 plug-and-go kit is a really powerful and convenient combination for a servo machine.