Back
[00:00:07] <Valen> (doesn't bother the current mill, it uses glass scales)
[00:01:41] <Theta9> dang allelectronics is finally out of those big ass 24v scooter motors
[00:02:06] <Theta9> Valen, why not drill/tap a hole in the shaft?
[00:02:15] <Valen> to what end?
[00:02:25] <Theta9> attach the encoder?
[00:02:43] <Valen> the end of the shaft is inside the ballscrew
[00:02:53] <Valen> the shaft is like 8mm long
[00:04:19] <Valen> the shaft also doesn't come out the back end
[00:04:40] <Theta9> that's what i meant... attach to the bag with a hole in the shaft
[00:04:46] <Theta9> s/bag/back/
[00:05:01] <Valen> the shaft is buried inside the motor
[00:05:19] <Theta9> dang
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[00:05:35] <Valen> http://secure.oatleyelectronics.com//product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=667&osCsid=4daaea9f72b61b86c6453e9ebc26eac4
[00:05:38] <Valen> is what we have
[00:06:40] <Theta9> that thing is huge!
[00:07:02] <Theta9> mine look very similar in style, minus the mounting bracket, and about 3/4 the size
[00:09:12] <Valen> it is pretty epic lol
[00:10:48] <Valen> andypugh: so what do you think, geckos or mesa with KL23-130-60 (NEMA23 from
http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html
[00:10:54] <Valen> or Theta9 for that matter
[00:10:59] <Valen> or anybody else
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[00:12:27] <andypugh> Does the Keling package come in cheaper for the Geckos?
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[00:12:48] <Valen> $1200 for a ready to run setup
[00:13:15] <Valen> http://www.kelinginc.net/CNC23ServoMotorPackage.html
[00:13:20] <andypugh> I don't really like step/dir servos, But I am sure that is just an aesthetic thing
[00:13:21] <L84Supper> Valen: do you really order from the midwest US to Australia?
[00:13:21] <Valen> kit 2
[00:13:32] <Valen> everything comes from overseas
[00:13:39] <Valen> australia makes nothing
[00:13:39] <L84Supper> keling has changed names
[00:13:58] <Valen> we also don't like step dir servos
[00:14:16] <L84Supper> he changed to
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/
[00:14:22] <L84Supper> same building
[00:14:23] <andypugh> Yeah, Valen, have you see the (much better) new Keling website?
[00:14:36] <Valen> as of 6 seconds ago yes
[00:15:39] <andypugh> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/ac-servo-motors/ac-brushless-servo-motor-and-driver makes the DMM look like a good price
[00:15:41] <L84Supper> China --> Chicago --> Melbourne.... I'm just trying to see if I can't find you a shortcut
[00:15:51] <Valen> sydney but close enough
[00:16:09] <L84Supper> ah ok, I thought you were down south
[00:16:12] <Valen> I do have one group who buys chinese motors close by, but mobile stuff (drill motors)
[00:16:32] <Valen> don't get me wrong that dmm is a good price
[00:16:52] <Valen> for the second mill (steel milling 4/5 axis machine) i think I'll be going that way
[00:17:04] <andypugh> I want someone to guinea-pig them. And someone too far away to hit me seems ideal.
[00:17:10] <Valen> rofl
[00:17:27] <Valen> It wouldn't bother me too much to split the encoder feeds back to EMC as well as the servo drive
[00:18:12] <Valen> run the servo as a velocity controller
[00:20:04] <L84Supper> http://www.motionking.com/index.htm is where I think they come from
[00:20:41] <L84Supper> I'm going to visit them in a few weeks
[00:23:19] <L84Supper> the smaller steppers anyway
[00:23:58] <Valen> friggin awesome btw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ffEYqGGYXRk
[00:24:16] <Valen> 2 guys in a helicopter rescue a RC plane from a tree
[00:24:28] <Valen> note a fair bit of language
[00:25:12] <Valen> L84Supper: i don't see any brushed servo motors there
[00:26:24] <L84Supper> http://www.stepper-dc-motor.com/products.html
[00:27:14] <L84Supper> Valen: DC brushed servo?
[00:27:35] <Valen> cheaper I was thinking
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[00:33:17] <L84Supper> scooter and wheelchair motors just keep coming up all the time
[00:34:00] <Valen> they are all generally single shaft though
[00:35:04] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/kl-stepper-drivers I haven't tried these yet. Low priced
[00:37:16] <andypugh> Valen, did you see:
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/servo-nema34-kits/4-axis-nema34-850-oz-in-72v20a-psu-g320x-gecko-driver
[00:37:44] <Valen> yeah i looked at that one
[00:38:00] <Valen> but the motors are heavier, and the 20A gecko cant hit the peak torque anyway
[00:38:04] <L84Supper> the guy has nearly no overhead
[00:38:24] <andypugh> Nema 42 steppers!??
[00:39:08] <L84Supper> just ~5k sq ft of warehouse, no showroom
[00:41:06] <L84Supper> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/career-opportunities he's hiring
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[00:56:58] <teb_> good evening
[00:58:04] -!- Tom_garage [Tom_garage!~Tl@unaffiliated/toml/x-013812] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:58:21] <teb_> being linuxcnc free and open, is there any "kind of library" with parts designs to make with using linuxcnc?
[00:58:51] <jdh> gcode is somewhat machine specific
[00:59:46] <teb_> that's the problem I'm having, this cnc machine I use at work uses very old files and I'd like to implement some new designs and make different parts
[01:00:19] <teb_> but this old files implement some words that are "propietary" to the controller software
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[01:00:46] <jdh> reject proprietary opression and embrace the freedom that is LinuxCNC
[01:01:18] <jdh> (did that sound convincing)
[01:01:40] <L84Supper> doesn't heeks generate g-code?
[01:02:05] <teb_> I would like to use linuxCNC at home to design parts and make the G-code and tests, but I can't figure a way of getting it to work with the cnc machine using it's propietary controller software
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[01:02:19] <jdh> what control does it use?
[01:02:31] <teb_> it's a brazilian one
[01:02:37] <teb_> i've got the manual right here lemme check
[01:02:45] <L84Supper> custom g-code?
[01:03:18] <teb_> I'd actually like to get free diesigns (maybe CAD files) and get them to linuxcnc, drive tests and then machine them
[01:03:31] <teb_> Numeric Controller MCS SX570
[01:03:38] <L84Supper> teb_, there are plenty of files around for free
[01:04:32] <L84Supper> teb_, you can design your own simple parts without too much work
[01:05:34] <teb_> I'm a total newb to everything related to CNC, a friend of mine has a factory and thanks to visiting him I got to learn some stuff.. Then I applied for a CNC Lathe Operation Job and I just got the job lol
[01:05:37] <teb_> Now I'm im trouble
[01:05:49] <teb_> haha AND very interested in learning
[01:06:06] <L84Supper> https://sites.google.com/site/heekscad/Details
[01:09:17] <teb_> thanks L8
[01:11:13] <teb_> L84Supper, do you know of a linux alternative for heekscad?
[01:12:19] <L84Supper> teb_, another open linux CAD application?
[01:12:35] <teb_> I just found a .exe link for the latest version of heekscad
[01:12:51] <L84Supper> there are linux packages
[01:12:57] <teb_> oh, thanks
[01:12:58] <L84Supper> what are you running?
[01:13:02] <teb_> Debian Squeeze
[01:14:12] <L84Supper> there's an Ubuntu package
[01:14:37] <L84Supper> can you compile from source? or do you need a package?
[01:14:53] <teb_> No problem with source compiling
[01:15:31] <L84Supper> http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/downloads/list
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[01:17:24] <teb_> So what would be the best approach for starters design & cnc-testing of solid parts in the lathe machine?
[01:18:48] <mutilator> anyone etch glass? trying to find a good bit, all these diamond coated things are crap
[01:18:59] <mutilator> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/24715738/IMG_20121031_211029.jpg
[01:21:22] sliptonic is now known as sliptonic_away
[01:22:05] <teb_> L84Supper, do you know what steps should I follow to turn my cad design into a lathe-machined ZX toolpath? Is my resulting G-code going to be supported by the SX570 controller?
[01:23:46] <L84Supper> heh it's all in Portuguese!
[01:24:01] sliptonic_away is now known as sliptonic
[01:24:39] <teb_> Yes, and I speak spanish
[01:25:10] <teb_> I will have to become a garoto very soon
[01:25:21] <L84Supper> i don't know anything about that controller
[01:25:35] <teb_> Maybe I should try find an emulator
[01:26:46] <L84Supper> you can design parts and create g-code with heeks and then run it in simulation in Linuxcnc
[01:27:22] <teb_> Ah, that will be enough for starting :) thank ou L8
[01:27:55] <L84Supper> or even create some g-code manually and run it through simulation
[01:41:19] <Valen> L84Supper: where are you anyway?
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[02:31:41] <r00t4rd3d> midwest
[02:33:12] <r00t4rd3d> 2009-05-30 01:42:09 L84Supper anyone have recommendations for a CNC shop in the midwest to mill some 6063 flat stock?
[02:33:33] <jdh> googlestalking?
[02:33:45] <r00t4rd3d> :D
[02:34:25] <r00t4rd3d> this place has more logs then the McDonalds bathroom
[02:35:32] <r00t4rd3d> google your username plus cnc
[02:36:01] <r00t4rd3d> well for you jdh its linuxcnc
[02:40:03] <L84Supper> r00t4rd3d, maybe somebody in here
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[03:11:36] <r00t4rd3d> ?
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[03:38:41] <Valen> what would a good acceleration for a CnC router be
[03:38:49] <Valen> think fairly intricate work
[03:38:58] <Valen> gears, and knicknacks
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[04:39:09] <tjb1> Anyone know of a sheet metal machine that can handle a decent gauge?
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[04:45:31] <tjb1> Someone buy this for me -
http://www.southern-tool.com/store/Baileigh_SBR-5216.php
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[07:57:42] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:47:49] <r00t4rd3d> ROAR!
[09:53:12] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b5e_1351660242
[09:53:14] <r00t4rd3d> lol
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[12:22:05] <JesusAlos> Hi boys n girls
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[12:59:01] <jdh> Jesus: and the others too?
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[13:37:06] <JesusAlos> ofcourse
[13:39:31] <JesusAlos> omo llevais los preparativos para la noche de halloween?
[13:40:25] <JesusAlos> How you take the preparations for Halloween night?
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[14:11:45] <r00t4rd3d> I bought a family sized package of toilet paper.
[14:11:56] <r00t4rd3d> I only had to shit though.
[14:14:07] <r00t4rd3d> My buddy and his old lady didnt discuss who was buying the candy, they each got some and they ended up getting $60 worth of candy and it rained out last night lol.
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[15:22:47] <JesusAlos> hi people
[15:23:01] <JesusAlos> i want a question about emc2
[15:23:33] <JesusAlos> there some way to show a time to machining?
[15:23:46] <jthornton> properties
[15:23:53] <JesusAlos> time after finish
[15:29:01] <roh> i have a 'machine uptime counter' with session-reset button in axis
[15:29:10] <roh> custom script
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[15:31:24] <JesusAlos> you did it yourself?
[15:31:33] <roh> yep.. mompls
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[15:32:20] <JesusAlos> what's mean "mompls"?
[15:32:27] <DJ9DJ> one moment please
[15:32:35] <JesusAlos> ok
[15:32:43] <JesusAlos> BRG
[15:33:12] <JesusAlos> "best regards"
[15:33:43] <jthornton> JesusAlos, if your wanting the current run time there is a time comp
[15:34:16] <Mike24> Hello ! I'm struggling to configure a servo-based spindle with Mesa's 5i25 and 7i77 boards. Motor maximum velocity is greyed out in pncconf (100rpm) and I can't find how to modify it. The encoder output is good. Should I add "loadrt scale etc" (found in the manual) as with a vfd ? Thank you !
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[15:35:41] <JesusAlos> i ask is the time until finish
[15:35:47] <JesusAlos> the countdown
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[15:40:29] <roh> JesusAlos:
http://pastebin.com/X7SgxHch
[15:40:43] <roh> i guess i missed the and an or gate invocations
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[15:41:50] <roh> maybe there is a nicer way... thats how i did it
[15:42:09] <roh> need to check on the mill machine where and how the python script is invoked
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[15:43:23] <JesusAlos> this code are do youselfe?
[15:43:25] <roh> so its not just copying in, but fixing a few lines..
[15:43:28] <roh> yep
[15:43:44] <JesusAlos> you are programmer so
[15:43:54] <roh> i put a reprap head to our machine as well, so we needed to make some adjustments
[15:44:25] <roh> dunno. i see myself rather as hacker and developer of hard and software.
[15:45:23] <JesusAlos> are aware of my need exposed a few days ago?
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[15:47:15] <roh> need?
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[15:49:28] <JesusAlos> i need to make a bar similar to axis speed control.
[15:50:15] <JesusAlos> but this bar must control a pause time between each change of direction in a two-axis machine
[15:51:28] <JesusAlos> this pause should not be within gcode
[15:55:44] <jdh> where should it be?
[15:57:18] <JesusAlos> i don't Know
[15:57:57] <JesusAlos> i want to say that ths pause is must be out gcode, because the user need change online it
[15:58:55] <skunkworks> hmm- it would be a lot easier in gcode.. You could pre-proccess the file into axs.. Otherwise - maybe exact stop mode - if 'in position' is activated at each end point - you could maybe use adaptive feed rate and set it to 0... (lots of ifs...)
[15:59:25] <skunkworks> (set it to 0 for an amount of time)
[16:01:08] <jdh> pretty much every time I have used a delay in any type of code, I have always been eventually disappointed.
[16:01:39] <JesusAlos> why?
[16:02:11] <roh> JesusAlos: what is the pause for?
[16:02:18] <jdh> things that need delays don't seem to need the same delay each time.
[16:03:59] <jdh> can you do an m66 for any hal pin?
[16:04:54] <JesusAlos> EPS foam when cutting to a high linear velocity, the hot wire is late and i must to wait for it recover before the change of direction
[16:05:26] <jdh> doesn't that depend on the speed of the move, the density of the foam, the cleanliness of the wire, the current through the wire, etc?
[16:05:47] <roh> hm.. m66 looks nice.. i was using m0 now and was thinking of adding some 'continue' button on the machine
[16:06:16] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: how long is the hotwire?
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[16:07:06] <jdh> you could pump a pwm through a pin with the duty cycle being the variable delay time, then preprocess the code to m66 low then high
[16:07:10] <JesusAlos> about 1500mm
[16:07:20] <JesusAlos> http://imagebin.org/234201
[16:07:43] <JesusAlos> is a software to a manufacturer machines
[16:08:26] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: How much of a delay are you needing?
[16:08:34] <Jymmm> to catch up
[16:08:45] <Jymmm> on avg
[16:08:49] <JesusAlos> about 4 seconds
[16:09:29] <roh> wouldnt it be nicer to wait for the wire to be straigtened again?
[16:09:34] <roh> instead of using time
[16:09:42] <JesusAlos> m66 and m0 involves alteration of gcode
[16:09:46] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: OUCH... I think you need to look at increasing your temp controller. Unless you are doing complex cuts, that's huge
[16:09:52] <roh> does the machine measure the tension of the wire?
[16:10:14] <skunkworks> roh's idea seems like a better solution...
[16:10:39] <Jymmm> hot wires are usually spring loaded
[16:11:02] <roh> i mean.. the sw knows the length of the wire if straight.. could one measure the lenght change under load?
[16:11:12] <JesusAlos> the wire have about 180N of tension
[16:11:19] <roh> i guess the head makes them longer as well?
[16:11:20] <JesusAlos> with springs
[16:11:28] <roh> irgh. s/head/heat/g
[16:11:31] <Jymmm> at 60" the hotwire thermally expands on it's own from 4 to 6 "
[16:12:04] <roh> whow. thats a lot
[16:12:07] <Jymmm> Nice idea, just not practical imo.
[16:12:33] <Jymmm> roh: Well, the working temp of NiChrome is 1800F =)
[16:12:52] <JesusAlos> about 90ºC
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[16:13:40] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: seriously?! for EPS you need to increase that by at 1.5x
[16:14:01] <JesusAlos> the problem is that you raise the temperature of the wire
[16:14:44] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Yes, but increase the temp AND constant controlled cnc movement will make for clean cuts
[16:15:09] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: If this was being cut by hand, I understand the lower temps
[16:15:12] <JesusAlos> burn more in the outer faces of the block that in the interior due to
[16:15:38] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: what gauge?
[16:15:48] <JesusAlos> the difference in indoor-outdoor humidity
[16:16:06] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Well, heat the warehouse =)
[16:17:14] <JesusAlos> note that cut block industrially
[16:17:32] <JesusAlos> about 1500x1500mm of section
[16:17:49] <JesusAlos> and 2500mm of long
[16:18:13] <JesusAlos> speak of pantographs
[16:18:22] <Jymmm> But look at what that 4s delay is doing.... It's holding the wire still at the outside edges, while he middle is still catching up.
[16:18:53] <JesusAlos> for all this, we need pause stop
[16:19:57] <Jymmm> I think you need to look at 1) the hotwire gauge/type and 2) your voltage/amperage, 3) humidity compensation
[16:20:15] <JesusAlos> believe me. It is the best way to work with these sizes
[16:20:33] <Jymmm> what gauge hotwire?
[16:21:03] <JesusAlos> about 0,5mm i think
[16:22:06] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: 30ga at 60"
[16:22:14] <JesusAlos> Jymmm: have much experience in cutting EPS. The best solution is the pause time
[16:22:30] <JesusAlos> What?
[16:22:42] <JesusAlos> 30ga?
[16:22:46] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Is your controller fixed output voltage?
[16:23:07] <JesusAlos> no
[16:23:11] <JesusAlos> is variable
[16:25:14] <JesusAlos> i need is change in emc2. Not change the way companies operate
[16:25:19] <Jymmm> I'd try a larger gauge hotwire and playing with controller settings
[16:25:51] <Jymmm> intentionally adding a pause/delay is never a good thing in cnc
[16:26:22] <JesusAlos> but, believe me, is necesary in this case
[16:26:43] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: why the precision for such a small hotwire?
[16:27:57] <JesusAlos> is pfor material utilization
[16:28:41] <JesusAlos> is possible the tread may be thicker
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[16:29:32] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: tread?
[16:29:57] <JesusAlos> sorry. Wire
[16:30:23] <JesusAlos> is there no way to implement the pause?
[16:31:04] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Ok, yeah please do try a thicker wire. I think you'll get better results long run, but you'll have to play around with the temp controller to find the sweet spot.
[16:32:19] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: and as you say compensate for humidity and room temperature.
[16:32:53] <JesusAlos> Jymmm: it's no easy for the operator machine
[16:33:18] <JesusAlos> so. the manufacturers machine put stop pause in her software control
[16:33:49] <JesusAlos> and for the moment i no have solution for my machines
[16:34:22] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: I've made hotwires for EPS that are perfect for hand carving sculptures, yet crap for other foams. and even different grades of EPS.
[16:34:54] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: I kind of customize the cutter to the material
[16:36:14] <JesusAlos> Please. I need some reference to do this function in emc2
[16:36:38] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: All I'm trying to say is inducing a delay isn't the right solution long term, it's just a hack imo.
[16:36:55] <hdokes|werkin> Hey Gents, I have a bridgeport series 1 manually operating mill that I would like to retrofit for cnc... is there a source for information on how to size the servo motors for such?
[16:36:55] hdokes|werkin is now known as hdokes
[16:37:38] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Teach the operator, or get a fancier heat controller to compensate.
[16:37:58] <JesusAlos> Jimmm: I understand your position. But my clients want it
[16:38:03] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: What are you usign for temp control?
[16:38:57] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: a variac?
[16:39:04] <JesusAlos> yes
[16:39:10] <JesusAlos> variac
[16:39:34] <Jymmm> so it's AC on the hotwire?
[16:39:45] <JesusAlos> yes
[16:39:49] <JesusAlos> AC voltage
[16:40:14] <Jymmm> 50Hz AC on a 60" wire == it hums (vibrates)
[16:40:36] <Jymmm> (dont ask how I know that =)
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[16:41:49] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: will the client be willing to try a better controller you think?
[16:43:29] <JesusAlos> what you mean?
[16:45:09] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Will your client be willing to spend the money to try a digitally controlled, environment compensating temperature controller?
[16:45:37] <JesusAlos> is possible
[16:45:43] <Jymmm> $300 - $1000 USD
[16:45:45] <JesusAlos> if i say
[16:45:51] <JesusAlos> is possible
[16:46:15] <JesusAlos> yes i think
[16:47:19] <Jymmm> ok, you might take a look at that for long term solution. Also, I don't think a variac provides isolation to the hotwire like a normal transformer does.
[16:48:26] <Jymmm> You might play with DC instead of AC controller, and see what results you get.
[16:49:20] <JesusAlos> what results you refer?
[16:49:34] <JesusAlos> quality cut or energy saver?
[16:49:49] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: performance (no delays), quality (cleaner cuts)
[16:50:28] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: Nah, in foam cutting there isn't any energy saving ever, MORE POWER!!!! LOL
[16:50:47] <JesusAlos> LOL??
[16:51:01] <Jymmm> JesusAlos: humor
[16:51:16] <JesusAlos> :)
[16:51:57] <jthornton> Jymmm, you on a Linux computer?
[16:52:19] <Jymmm> jthornton: whatcha need =)
[16:52:44] <jthornton> give that a whirl
http://www.gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[16:52:48] <JesusAlos> you know that are companies developing cutting equipament with wires bibrantes EPS?
[16:53:17] <Jymmm> bibrantes ???
[16:54:04] <JesusAlos> bibrate
[16:54:31] <JesusAlos> vibrates
[16:55:03] <Jymmm> you mean AC controllers?
[16:55:09] <JesusAlos> where are you from Jymmm
[16:55:11] <JesusAlos> ?
[16:55:22] <Jymmm> US
[16:55:38] <JesusAlos> no. I mean a mechanical device
[16:56:12] <JesusAlos> in Europe, energetic saving no joke
[16:56:54] <JesusAlos> http://www.tecnodinamica.it/index.php?lang=es
[16:57:05] <JesusAlos> this enterprise developed it
[16:57:13] <JesusAlos> all for enegy saving
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[16:57:27] <JesusAlos> less power, more beneficts
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[16:57:49] <JesusAlos> and he have pauses stop
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[17:08:28] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:08:47] <tjb1> ello
[17:08:52] <IchGuckLive> JesusAlos: how is it going
[17:09:19] <JesusAlos> bad
[17:09:22] <JesusAlos> :(
[17:09:24] <IchGuckLive> not good
[17:09:27] <JesusAlos> i no have solution
[17:09:41] <JesusAlos> (the solution that i looking for)
[17:10:20] <IchGuckLive> if you go down with the acceleration below 3mm/s² then you might also see a effect you looking for
[17:10:41] <jdh> he wants a 4 second pause
[17:11:06] <IchGuckLive> 4sec on what decission
[17:11:20] <IchGuckLive> 90 deg corner backwards move
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[17:15:08] <jthornton> that really should be handled by the post processor and only feed override for the operator
[17:17:08] <IchGuckLive> jt agree on that
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[17:20:28] <jdh> I think everyone agrees except jesus
[17:21:13] <jdh> I bet you could hack it in with the backlash compensation
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[17:22:13] <jdh> guess that wouldn't work for 90-degree corners though
[17:25:15] <JesusAlos> having seen, may be the solution
[17:25:51] <jdh> perhaps you should use mach
[17:28:15] <JesusAlos> match3?
[17:29:03] <ReadError> mack3
[17:31:43] <pcw_home> mock3
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[17:39:23] <tjb1> 4?
[17:39:50] -!- yuvipanda has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
[17:39:50] yuvipanda_ is now known as yuvipanda
[17:40:00] <JesusAlos> why Match?
[17:41:35] <jdh> perhaps they can add a delay for you.
[17:42:25] <tjb1> match? its mach
[17:42:48] <jthornton> mark3
[17:42:54] <tjb1> >:(
[17:43:18] <jthornton> tjb1, want to try something out for me?
[17:43:26] <tjb1> Your gear calc?
[17:43:35] <tjb1> Thread calc sorry
[17:43:59] <jthornton> yea, been improving it a lot
http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[17:44:23] <tjb1> What areas do you want tested? or all of it
[17:44:51] <jthornton> just see if it is intuitive to use
[17:45:33] <tjb1> Ill take a crack at it once I get the ambition to go outside, only 39F here :(
[17:45:38] <tjb1> No heat in garage either
[17:45:51] <jthornton> you on a windoze box now?
[17:46:03] <tjb1> mac
[17:46:21] <jthornton> will it run on a mac?
[17:46:26] <tjb1> I tried to put linux on here but it took over and killed windows
[17:46:45] <tjb1> Which one do I click?
[17:47:03] <jthornton> where?
[17:47:11] <tjb1> glade, pyc, sqlite
[17:47:28] <jthornton> oh, sfc.pyc
[17:47:45] <tjb1> Let me see if I can get python
[17:47:54] <jthornton> be nice to know that up front I guess LOL
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[17:48:52] <tjb1> It is python correct?
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[17:52:25] <IchGuckLive> are there also metric treads in
[17:52:47] -!- automata__ has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
[17:53:39] <IchGuckLive> its in glade sqlite
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[18:00:43] <tjb1> I cant get it to run right on mac jthornton
[18:01:53] <jthornton> ok thanks for trying
[18:02:33] <tjb1> Ill test it out later today
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[18:02:56] <jthornton> ok thanks
[18:06:10] <mutilator> so.. etching glass.. anyone do it?
[18:06:14] -!- morfic [morfic!~morfic@unaffiliated/morfic] has joined #linuxcnc
[18:06:23] <mutilator> looking for a new bit
[18:07:28] <awallin> mutilator: what do you want to do in glass?
[18:07:54] <mutilator> etching mirrors
[18:08:40] <awallin> I've used saturated KOH solution to clean microscope coverslips. that is supposed to etch away a bit of the surface.
[18:09:06] <mutilator> i was just using diamond bi
[18:09:07] <mutilator> bits
[18:09:13] <awallin> we used Teflon/PTFE holders for the glass in KOH. don't put metal in the KOH
[18:09:17] <mutilator> but all the ones i had laying around were just crappy things
[18:09:45] <awallin> so you want some pattern etched, like making a pcb?
[18:09:53] <mutilator> yea
[18:10:22] <awallin> I guess they sell the photoresist for pcb-making as a spray?
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[18:10:50] <mutilator> heh
[18:10:53] <awallin> spray on that, make a mask, shine UV on it, was away partly the photoresist, then into KOH ?
[18:10:53] <mutilator> should i have used the work engrave
[18:11:00] <mutilator> word
[18:21:25] <jdh> perhaps. Or posted your pic link again
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[18:25:59] <IchGuckLive> i need to close a thunderstorm is hedding here i see flashlights outside
[18:26:04] <IchGuckLive> BY
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[18:27:04] <awallin> flash gordon approaching..
[18:27:21] <mutilator> think so eh
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[18:36:43] <L84Supper> mutilator, I saw the pic the other day. How fine a resolution do you need? line and space?
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[18:58:39] <tjb1> Anyone here have an oil furnace?
[18:59:45] <Jymmm> tjb1: read your memos!
[18:59:51] <tjb1> Memos?
[19:00:16] <Jymmm> tjb1: /msg memoserv help
[19:01:52] <tjb1> Im confused, whats that have to do with an oil furnace?
[19:02:14] <Jymmm> tjb1: not a damn thing, look at the TIME they were sent
[19:02:44] <tjb1> 6:07 pm?
[19:02:50] <jdh> wtf is a memoserv?
[19:03:26] <tjb1> You went to the future?
[19:03:51] <alex_joni> hey Jymmm
[19:04:10] <Jymmm> ho alex_joni
[19:04:39] <tjb1> What are you getting at Jymmm
[19:05:37] <alex_joni> you need a solvent
[19:06:06] <Jymmm> tjb1: you know what, nevermind. forget I said anything.
[19:06:19] <tjb1> Im confused...
[19:06:29] <tjb1> You sent me a memo from the future?
[19:06:48] <Jymmm> tjb1: forget it
[19:07:10] <tjb1> Alright then
[19:07:39] <alex_joni> maybe it was yesterday ?
[19:07:54] <tjb1> MemoServ: - 1 From: Jymmm Sent: Nov 01 18:07:14 2012 [unread]
[19:07:54] <tjb1> [3:00pm] MemoServ: - 2 From: Jymmm Sent: Nov 01 18:08:52 2012 [unread]
[19:08:07] <alex_joni> might be UTC then
[19:08:20] <alex_joni> it's 9pm here atm ;)
[19:10:49] <Jymmm> alex_joni: I thought you were gmt +1 ?
[19:11:34] <tjb1> Jymmm: What time is it there?
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[19:15:38] <alex_joni> Jymmm: +2 now, +3 last week (DST)
[19:15:56] <Jymmm> alex_joni: ah
[19:16:05] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[19:16:10] <DJ9DJ> wb Loetmichel
[19:16:21] <mutilator> L84Supper, yea space, doesnt need to be super fine i dont intend to do super detailed stuff
[19:16:28] <jthornton> alex_joni, want to try out my latest time sink?
[19:16:47] <mutilator> i just was looking to anyone with experience for their thoughts
[19:17:44] <jdh> mutilated: I nominated you to buy multiple bits and arrange a study to determine best tool usage.
[19:18:06] <jdh> how about a spring loaded diamond bit?
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[19:19:17] <mutilator> if i wanted to do that i wouldnt have asked and just went ahead
[19:19:21] <mutilator> thats what i was trying to avoid
[19:19:31] <jdh> someone has to be the pioneer!
[19:19:48] <mutilator> if it were new frontier i would be
[19:20:14] <L84Supper> mutilator, we used to use diamond bits that worked really well
[19:20:17] <mutilator> once we discover kryptonite i'll be the first to determine how to mill it
[19:20:20] <mutilator> just for you jdh
[19:20:27] <jdh> k00l!
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[19:20:49] <L84Supper> mutilator, are you trying to avoid chemical etching?
[19:21:17] <mutilator> yea
[19:21:44] hdokes|werkin is now known as hdokes
[19:21:48] <mutilator> not going to be full production line stuff i just want to be able to do it once in a while
[19:22:08] <andypugh> mutilator: Etching glass normally requires HF. You don't want to.
[19:22:30] <jdh> chemical etching is messy. pcb or glass. cnc rotary etching is such a wonderful idea.
[19:22:36] <mutilator> yea
[19:22:44] <mutilator> well i have plenty of spills from pcb etching
[19:22:51] <mutilator> FeCl doesnt come out of anything
[19:22:57] <jdh> heh
[19:23:06] <andypugh> At least FeCl3 doesn't soak into your skin and dissolve your bones.
[19:23:15] <mutilator> this is true, which is why i chose it
[19:23:42] <andypugh> Rubber mask and grit-blast is one way
[19:24:19] <jdh> we have HF as a byproduct here... we do 'sense and flee' training.
[19:24:33] <L84Supper> mutilator: photopolymer and a DLP to create the mask
[19:25:05] <andypugh> Reprap then grit-blast?
[19:25:52] <L84Supper> or photopolymer applied with a silkscreen
[19:26:01] <L84Supper> then grit blast
[19:27:49] <andypugh> Photopolymer _and_ silkscreen seems a bit excessive
[19:28:23] <L84Supper> cnc cut a steel mask and then blast
[19:28:59] <L84Supper> it depends on if you want a lot of the same pattern or all unique
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[19:29:56] <andypugh> Having said that, a spring-loaded Dremel and a diamond bit seems like an experiment worth trying.
[19:30:52] <JesusAlos> Hi
[19:31:10] <JesusAlos> Can emc2 run as two axis machine?
[19:31:37] <andypugh> You mean just XY ?
[19:31:50] <JesusAlos> hi Andy. Yes
[19:33:06] <jdh> http://www.2linc.com/glass_engraving.htm
[19:33:31] <andypugh> JesusAlos:
http://axis.unpythonic.net/etchcnc
[19:35:20] <andypugh> You can have a 1 axis machine or a 9 axis machine, or anything in between. LinuxCNC doesn't care
[19:37:55] <alex_joni> jthornton: time sink?
[19:38:55] <jthornton> yea it's been wasting my time all day LOL
[19:39:02] <jthornton> http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[19:39:18] <alex_joni> ha
[19:39:31] <mutilator> lol jdh
[19:39:35] <mutilator> thats the bit i was looking at
[19:39:37] <mutilator> the 120
[19:40:11] <mutilator> http://www.2linc.com/engraving_tools_diamond_tools.htm
[19:40:12] <mutilator> that one
[19:40:23] <alex_joni> jthornton: saw that, looks cool
[19:40:31] <jthornton> thanks
[19:40:37] <alex_joni> but other than functional, I doubt I can offer much insight
[19:40:53] <alex_joni> here's all I did today:
http://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/480281_457694610940253_1077615787_n.jpg
[19:41:11] <JesusAlos> eny body know where is the stepconf file of default installation emc?
[19:41:13] <jthornton> looks cool
[19:41:27] <alex_joni> cardboard + scissors.. no cnc ;)
[19:42:00] <alex_joni> for st. martin's day
[19:42:04] <jdh> alex_joni: I'd outsource that to my daughter
[19:42:54] -!- automata has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
[19:44:03] <alex_joni> jdh: my son's 3.. so had to help him out
[19:44:06] <alex_joni> http://ais.badische-zeitung.de/piece/02/3d/c7/70/37603184.jpg
[19:44:19] <alex_joni> or that:
http://www.schierling.de/htmls/archiv/archive/archiv2006/images/2006-01-06_rueckblick19.jpg
[19:46:11] <andypugh> JesusAlos: Look in /usr/bin at a guess
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[19:51:48] <JesusAlos> the're no are stepconf file
[19:52:26] <JesusAlos> stepconf
[19:55:33] <andypugh> Hang on, do you want the Stepconf program, or the Stepconf.stepconf files?
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[19:55:57] <andypugh> The sample configurations don't have stepconf files AFAIK.
[19:57:25] <JesusAlos> ok
[19:58:08] <JesusAlos> i want to modified a default configurations as 2 axis machine
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[20:00:23] <andypugh> You need to edit the HAL.
[20:01:19] <andypugh> (It's not difficult, you only need to edit the INI to change COORDINATES and NUM_AXES (or something like that). The extra stuff gets ignored.
[20:01:53] <andypugh> You then need to remove the bits of HAL that refer to joints and axes > 1
[20:11:31] <JesusAlos> I modified AXES=2 and COORDINATES= X Y in .ini file+
[20:12:01] <JesusAlos> but don't know what else change in hal file
[20:12:30] <JesusAlos> if execute change olnly that show error
[20:12:55] <andypugh> Start Linuxcnc from the terminal and delete the lines it complains about one by one...
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[20:28:53] <JT-Shop> or start with a lathe config and change Z to Y
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[21:23:40] <JesusAlos> can i use Heekscnc with 2 axis?
[21:24:09] <JesusAlos> andypugh: i try it. it run ok
[21:25:01] <andypugh> JesusAlos: I don't know about HeeksCNC. Possibly. dxf-to-gcode is an option, or gcodetools in Inkscape
[21:30:14] <JesusAlos> dxf2gcode is a 3 axis
[21:30:27] <JesusAlos> don't run in a 2 axis machine
[21:31:02] <andypugh> That seems odd, as DXF is 2D.
[21:32:01] <JesusAlos> yes but there are a Z parameters
[21:32:23] <JesusAlos> and when open with emc show error
[21:32:34] <andypugh> It may be possible to configure them away. Or serch-replace them away.
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[21:33:05] <JesusAlos> you say edit gcodefile?
[21:33:07] <andypugh> Alternatively, use coordinates=XYZ and simply ignore the Z. That might be the best solution anyway.
[21:33:51] <andypugh> I write most of my G-code by hand, so that's not so scary to me.
[21:35:12] <JesusAlos> iiimagebin
[21:36:36] <JesusAlos> www.imagebin.org/234255
[21:36:50] <JesusAlos> problem
[21:37:04] <JesusAlos> the route cross in to the box
[21:41:58] <andypugh> Hmm, yes.
[21:42:27] <andypugh> What machine is this?
[21:43:10] <andypugh> Hotwire?
[21:43:51] <JesusAlos> :) ofcourse
[21:44:01] <andypugh> I am not sure how to get round that, as there is no easy way for the G-code generator to know which areas are "part" and which are "waste"
[21:44:18] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[21:44:57] <andypugh> You may need to edit the file to make all G0 moves into G1 (as you can't rapid through the material) and modify the paths to miss the actual part.
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[21:46:26] <andypugh> I wonder if SheetCAM has a way to define "avoid" areas?
[21:47:01] <andypugh> He says that a post might be free:
http://www.sheetcam.com/Features/Posts.shtml
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[21:50:18] <JesusAlos> i will try it
[21:52:30] <JesusAlos> how can modifi the file emc open by default mode?
[21:52:45] <JesusAlos> What file contain this information?
[21:52:57] <JesusAlos> i don't see in stepconf file
[21:53:46] <andypugh> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html
[22:04:04] <Jymmm> Got Tree?
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=BFTj0hM3DHM
[22:04:39] <JesusAlos> when execute emc from desktop icon an close. I's all ok
[22:04:56] <JesusAlos> when execute from command
[22:05:01] <JesusAlos> www.imagebin.org/234259
[22:05:08] <JesusAlos> appear some error
[22:05:47] <andypugh> That's wierd
[22:06:24] <andypugh> Is that a VNC window? Because that is a graphics quirk
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[22:10:03] <JesusAlos_> :)
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[22:10:17] <JesusAlos> :)
[22:11:00] <andypugh> A lot of your other screen-grabs have been Mac windows. I think that might be related to that graphics error.
[22:13:13] <JesusAlos> i will try to see it it's erros was for manual 2 axis configuration
[22:13:57] <JesusAlos> I fall groun sleep. Good night
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[22:14:50] <JT-Shop> andypugh: did you look at the thread thing? it has the thread depth now...
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[22:28:39] <Aero-Tec> need help
[22:28:48] <Aero-Tec> I have 2 IBM think centers
[22:29:09] <Aero-Tec> one has jitter of11420
[22:29:31] <Aero-Tec> the other over 250,000
[22:29:46] <Aero-Tec> how on earth can that be?
[22:30:14] <Aero-Tec> any help would be great
[22:30:58] <Aero-Tec> BTW the 11420 one was running the gears and update and fire fox and a few other things
[22:31:14] <Aero-Tec> the 250,000 only gears and the test
[22:32:05] <Aero-Tec> that is a huge problem I would think
[22:32:24] <Aero-Tec> I have a 3rd think center I can try
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[22:32:58] <andypugh> Different BIOS setups?
[22:33:18] <Aero-Tec> what should I be looing for in the bios?
[22:33:26] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Sorry, repooted and lost the link
[22:33:54] <Aero-Tec> is there some key places to look?
[22:34:53] <Aero-Tec> there is some other things one can do, custom edit of a fire to turn off some things, but will that be near enough
[22:35:05] <Aero-Tec> and why one need the turn off and one does not
[22:35:36] <andypugh> One might have a memory or drive problem.
[22:35:49] <Aero-Tec> is it the INI file I need to look at for the is it SIS or something like that?
[22:36:20] <Aero-Tec> some thing to do with interups
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[22:36:55] <Aero-Tec> is there some place to get test software to test the machine?
[22:38:00] <Aero-Tec> that would be cool to have some sort of testing software that would give the computer a complete going over and report problems and if the machine would be good for EMC
[22:38:30] <Aero-Tec> I am new to linux
[22:38:53] <Aero-Tec> so not sure where to go or what to do to get testing software
[22:38:56] <JT-Shop> andypugh:
http://gnipsel.com/shop/sfc/sfc.xhtml
[22:39:03] <andypugh> There is probably something, it might even be built in
[22:39:04] <Aero-Tec> or what one would be best
[22:40:07] <Aero-Tec> cool
[22:40:11] <Aero-Tec> app
[22:40:31] <Aero-Tec> so how do I test the computer drives and mem?
[22:40:52] <Aero-Tec> would be good to test the whole thing
[22:42:57] <andypugh> sudo apt-get install memtester
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[22:46:59] <Aero-Tec> does it only do mem?
[22:47:36] <Aero-Tec> looking in the web site and found some things to try and to look at
[22:47:42] <andypugh> I guessed a name and googled.
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[22:48:39] <Aero-Tec> the thing I was thinking of was not sis but smi
[22:48:56] <Aero-Tec> been awhile
[22:49:11] <Aero-Tec> also I need to change the INI
[22:50:11] <Aero-Tec> can I put my edits into a second file and have it read?
[22:50:13] <andypugh> http://askubuntu.com/questions/109935/are-there-any-hardware-diagnostic-tools
[22:50:19] <Aero-Tec> so 2 INIs that act as one
[22:50:54] <andypugh> Aero-Tec: Yes, you can copy the entire config folder, change the name and change the INI file name and have a complete separate config to break. :-)
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[22:51:52] <andypugh> Or, you can indeed have a separate INI in the same folder. Of you look inside sim->axis sample configs you will find that there are 4 or 5 machines all sharing config files.
[22:53:04] <Aero-Tec> cool
[22:53:06] <Aero-Tec> thanks
[22:54:42] <andypugh> Basically the INI defines a "machine" and appears as a choice in the config picker. Any INI can reference as many HAL files as it wants to.
[22:55:45] <JT-Shop> and HAL files can call other HAL files
[22:56:53] <andypugh> can they?
[22:57:14] <JT-Shop> yea, I saw that in a pnccnof config this morining
[22:57:21] <andypugh> scary!
[22:57:45] <andypugh> Ah. "source"?
[22:57:52] <JT-Shop> aye
[22:58:26] <JT-Shop> I had to use grep to find things in his config is was so convoluted
[22:58:54] <andypugh> That's the problem when you let machines do things for you.
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[23:01:53] <JT-Shop> I should email you the config so you can have a good laugh
[23:10:14] <Aero-Tec> I need to get back to making chips
[23:10:25] <Aero-Tec> I will try the other spare unit I have
[23:10:56] <Aero-Tec> what is the best way to move the configs to a second computer
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[23:12:54] <JT-Shop> usb drive, floppy disk, LAN...
[23:13:34] <Aero-Tec> also seeing as I am doing up a new computer, should I download the any newer versions?
[23:13:48] <Aero-Tec> U figgered usb
[23:13:51] <Aero-Tec> I
[23:14:05] <Aero-Tec> but what dirs should I copy to them
[23:15:02] <Aero-Tec> will have to look and see what version of linux I haverunning
[23:15:33] <JT-Shop> if it is a newer computer use the 10.04 LiveCD
[23:15:49] <JT-Shop> all your configs will go in linuxcnc/configs
[23:16:58] <Aero-Tec> I believe it to be a P4
[23:17:05] <Aero-Tec> is that new enough?
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[23:17:42] <JT-Shop> you might be better off with the 8.04 LiveCD
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[23:18:06] <JT-Shop> you can still upgrade to the latest version of LinuxCNC after you install by following the instructions
[23:18:47] <Aero-Tec> ok thanks
[23:19:59] <Aero-Tec> could the problem be I am running to new a version?
[23:20:24] <JT-Shop> if your having a problem with Ubuntu yes that could be it
[23:20:31] <Aero-Tec> I think I am running the 10 version on the lathe and that is the one with 250,000 jitter
[23:20:44] <Aero-Tec> no problems that I know of
[23:20:49] <Aero-Tec> other then the jitter
[23:21:00] <Aero-Tec> every thing else is 100%
[23:21:02] <JT-Shop> the key is "that I know of"
[23:21:15] <Aero-Tec> the mill is running 8
[23:21:30] <Aero-Tec> it has 11420 for jitter
[23:21:57] <Aero-Tec> I would like to change the network name of the mill and can no
[23:22:02] <andypugh> Ah, yes, that is almost certainly the difference.
[23:22:20] <Aero-Tec> the lathe was no problem as the gui made it easy
[23:22:33] <andypugh> You may have different drivers with the different systems, for a start.
[23:23:31] <Aero-Tec> so what is the best way to install 8 on the 10 unit?
[23:23:51] <Aero-Tec> will try that first
[23:24:45] <Aero-Tec> it also has windows on it
[23:24:49] <Aero-Tec> win 2000
[23:24:55] <Aero-Tec> for running mach
[23:24:59] <andypugh> You could pretend that you doidn't have a working 8,04 and try all the usual things
[23:25:17] <Aero-Tec> witch is?
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[23:25:43] <andypugh> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?TroubleShooting
[23:25:49] <Aero-Tec> I have a working 10
[23:25:58] <Aero-Tec> would like to make it 8
[23:26:11] <Aero-Tec> ok
[23:26:16] <Aero-Tec> was there
[23:26:48] <Aero-Tec> have tried some of it, not all
[23:27:14] <Aero-Tec> I know 8 works so would like to do 8 if possible
[23:27:34] <andypugh> But 10 can work fine too.
[23:27:53] <andypugh> Is it possible you did the SMI fix on the 804 version and forgot on the 10?
[23:28:04] <Aero-Tec> I like 10 better
[23:28:17] <Aero-Tec> could be
[23:28:19] <Aero-Tec> will look
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[23:28:31] <andypugh> Is the 8,04 running now?
[23:28:51] <andypugh> lsmod will probably show if rtai_smi is loaded
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[23:31:40] <Aero-Tec> they are both running now
[23:31:48] <Aero-Tec> lathe 10 and mill 8
[23:31:51] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Trying to run your Calculator on my Mac I get "RuntimeError: Bad magic number in .pyc file". I don't know if that is to be expected.
[23:32:32] <Aero-Tec> Ismod?
[23:32:39] <Aero-Tec> I am very green
[23:32:57] <Aero-Tec> do I type that into the terminal?
[23:32:58] <cradek> it's incorrect to distribute a pyc. those are not portable.
[23:33:13] <cradek> just delete them
[23:33:17] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop the calc looks better with the scrolling list
[23:33:20] <cradek> they're autogenerated from the py
[23:34:26] <andypugh> There is no .py...
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[23:41:55] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I got the same thing trying to run it in windoze
[23:42:18] <JT-Shop> cradek: ok, thanks
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[23:45:24] <JT-Shop> andypugh: I've uploaded the py files now
[23:46:01] <JT-Shop> cradek: the pyc files only run on the same operating system?
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[23:48:03] <JT-Shop> now to finger out how to get glade on this windoze computer
[23:48:42] <Aero-Tec> mill has smi mod
[23:48:54] <andypugh> aha!
[23:49:10] <Aero-Tec> is there any differances from 8 to 10 in installing the smi mod?
[23:49:29] <Aero-Tec> can I just copy the file over?
[23:49:51] <andypugh> the rtapi.conf? I htink so.
[23:49:59] <Aero-Tec> yes
[23:50:10] <Aero-Tec> any way to know for sure?
[23:50:43] <Aero-Tec> would like to kep
[23:50:59] <Aero-Tec> would like to keep 10 if possible
[23:53:50] <Aero-Tec> The above works for installed emc2 - for 'run in place' it is a bit different.
[23:53:55] <Aero-Tec> what is run it place?
[23:54:05] <Aero-Tec> is that running off the CD?
[23:54:11] <Aero-Tec> live disk
[23:54:17] <andypugh> no
[23:54:27] <andypugh> Compiled in it's own directory.
[23:54:39] <Aero-Tec> do I need to worry about run in place?
[23:54:47] <Aero-Tec> ok
[23:55:01] <Aero-Tec> so seeing as I did a live cd install then I should be OK
[23:55:03] <Aero-Tec> right?
[23:55:14] <andypugh> aye
[23:55:39] <Aero-Tec> off to see if the smi mod works
[23:55:57] <Aero-Tec> the jitter jumps real quick
[23:56:07] <Aero-Tec> seems to be when I open something
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[23:56:29] <Aero-Tec> thought the SMI clitch only hit every 64 sec or so
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