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[00:14:39] <pcw_home> We have a 8 channel Thermocouple interface coming out (7I88)
[00:14:41] <pcw_home> If that works out we could make something more tailored to rep-rep type apps
[00:14:51] <pcw_home> rep-rap
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[00:17:08] <Tecan> http://www.indiegogo.com/linuxlaser?a=1705409 << is this offensive to anyone ? figured ide ask before someone decides to donate
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[00:18:58] <Tecan> duno if i can use the logo like that either
[00:21:50] <L84Supper> IMHO, I don't think you'll reach that goal
[00:22:18] <L84Supper> you can buy a laser off-the-shelf for far less
[00:22:32] <Tecan> hmmm where ?
[00:23:26] <Tecan> besides its hard to setup lasers in emc and the tools just arnt there yet
[00:23:44] <L84Supper> I have the links on my other Linux install.... I'll post them later
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[00:23:57] <Tecan> for graster ?
[00:24:48] <L84Supper> for the laser sources from China
[00:25:34] <Tecan> duno about finding the whole machine with 80 watt ps for that
[00:25:56] <Tecan> specially with moving z axis
[00:31:49] <roh> its really a question of whats not described there...
[00:32:31] <L84Supper> http://en.shenhuilaser.com/index.asp
[00:33:38] <roh> from my pov the expensive part is mechanics and quality not getting a tube and some mirrors and lens
[00:34:31] <Tecan> yep there are ways to get that cost down too- point taken though i'll specify more
[00:35:10] <roh> well.. it depends on what stuff you use in the machine you sell.. describe that a bit more.
[00:38:57] <micges_> pcw_home: hi
[00:39:13] <pcw_home> HI
[00:39:17] <micges_> pcw_home: will servo x4 and sserial x1 fit 7i43?
[00:39:41] <pcw_home> yes easily
[00:40:21] <micges_> cool
[00:40:27] micges_ is now known as micges
[00:40:58] <pcw_home> servo (PWM/encoder) are quite small, stepgen and sserial are bigger but that and more will fit in a 200K 7I43
[00:42:01] <micges> 2x sserial will be absoulte max
[00:42:56] <pcw_home> more sserial channels than one are not bad either ( more than 1 just add a UART until you get to 8)
[00:43:05] <pcw_home> 8
[00:43:38] <pcw_home> first one costs a processor, RAM and ROM
[00:43:54] <micges> ah
[00:46:04] <micges> one more thing - what power does output from 7i37 have? 0.25W ?
[00:46:44] <pcw_home> current?
[00:46:50] <pcw_home> 1A
[00:47:09] <micges> per output?
[00:47:16] <pcw_home> Yes
[00:49:55] <micges> thanks
[00:51:52] <pcw_home> 7I64 and 7I66 have more (2.5A I think)
[01:04:16] <micges> 7i66 will fit perfectly for sserial
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[01:04:33] <micges> if output will be too weak
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[01:39:41] <L84Supper> Tecan,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/80w16x24-laser-cutter-engraver-machine-with-higher-quality-cheap-price-free-ship-/130444174189?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5f14236d
[01:39:55] <L84Supper> US $3,999.00 with shipping
[01:41:46] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1427848145/build-your-own-laser-cutter?play=1&ref=search
[01:42:17] <L84Supper> $60,294 pledged of $300,000 goal 14 days to go
[01:43:30] <L84Supper> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fsl/affordable-20x12-laser-cutter-engraver-assembled-i?ref=search
[01:43:48] <L84Supper> $259,327 pledged of $100,000 goal
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[02:46:25] <Tecan> thanks
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[05:34:59] <Tecan> grummund ?
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[07:53:57] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:29:02] <Spida> moin
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[09:17:29] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[09:18:18] <Vq> g'dmorning
[09:19:04] <Loetmichel> <- coffee, then on the road to work... boss and his shipping deadlines... :-(
[09:19:48] <archivist> haha... /me off to play steam engines
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[13:05:27] <jthornton> holy crap it works in windblows now
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[14:43:58] * JT-Shop builds a small fire in the shop
[14:44:33] <Jymmm> making lunch from the alligator and it won't fit in the house?
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[14:46:03] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:25333
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[16:50:38] <IchGuckLive> hi all
[16:53:43] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: today i opend up the encoder case and i found i grayscale dial inside
[16:54:15] <IchGuckLive> so i guess it is not a incremental as always expected in the datasheeds o f the motor it can be a absolute one
[16:55:00] <IchGuckLive> this woudt also then give the 3 signal at the outputs
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[18:00:50] <Phobos> Hi everyone - I have a problem with a freshly installed linuxcnc 2.5.0 it crashes at startup just 5 secs after the spash screen
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[18:07:06] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: hit F6 at sturtup and delete the AHCP
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[18:08:41] <Phobos> ok
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[18:17:27] <Phobos> did you say AHCP or AHCI I got myself confused
[18:18:07] <IchGuckLive> there are 3 choces use one
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[18:24:33] <sliptonic> pcw_home: I might need a little guidance with actually wiring my VFD. I know it should be easy :-) With a pot wired between 10V and ACM on the VFD and the wiper on VIN, it controls speed fine. When I replace the wiper with the 0-10V signal from analog5 on the 7i77, it doesn't work.
[18:25:48] <archivist> I see no mention of a 0v connection in that sentence
[18:26:10] <sliptonic> Sorry to be dense but they didn't cover any of this in my psychology classes.
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[18:26:52] <Phobos> I went into BIOS and ascertained ACPI off. Is that what you wanted me to do?
[18:27:05] <IchGuckLive> no
[18:27:19] <IchGuckLive> there are choises at the start of ubuntu
[18:27:33] <IchGuckLive> NOLAPIC NOAPIC
[18:28:10] <IchGuckLive> Phobos:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Boot-Options.png
[18:28:18] <Phobos> cool thanks
[18:28:27] <IchGuckLive> F6 other options
[18:29:07] <IchGuckLive> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BootOptions?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Boot-F6-Other.png
[18:29:17] <IchGuckLive> the first 3 try one on its own
[18:29:33] <archivist> you need an electrical class not psychology
[18:29:36] <IchGuckLive> realtime needs lapic i guess
[18:30:26] <sliptonic> archivist: clearly. But in the meantime, I rely upon the kindness of strangers and blind luck.
[18:30:44] <archivist> a voltage is with reference to some 0v connection on both devices
[18:31:09] <archivist> so that 0v reference needs another wire
[18:32:32] <sliptonic> 0v being 'ACM' on VFD and GND on 7i77?
[18:32:43] <archivist> very likely
[18:32:45] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: is this a 2 kernel pc
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[18:42:01] <IchGuckLive> Phobos: ?
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[18:44:03] <sliptonic> archivist: Thank you. That clears things up considerably.
[18:45:46] <archivist> missing gnd and 0v connections can damage stuff, be careful
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[18:52:07] <IchGuckLive> ok im off by
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[18:53:25] <Phobos> @IchGuckLive Did that - bootrepair set grub options NOLAPIC NOAPIC - with no improvement. Odd thing is, in 10% of cases the gui does come up right (using sim.axismm)
[19:01:31] <roh> hm.. anyone an idea how far the rtai on arm stuff went?
[19:01:46] <roh> as in: is there a non-pc platform worth running axis and emc on?
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[19:09:12] <L84Supper> roh: I've been waiting and watching for that myself
[19:09:46] <L84Supper> roh: possibly an ARM soc with PCIe to connect to the Mesa FPGA cards
[19:09:53] <archivist> best watch the developers mailing list for that methinks
[19:10:21] <roh> L84Supper: i am thinking into another direction. cheaper, smaller, less power hungry
[19:10:31] <L84Supper> there are some new ARM soc boards with PCIe, but the price is higher than x86
[19:10:43] <roh> into the 'use a rasberry to run emc on and put the display on a rooted chromebook'
[19:10:45] <L84Supper> cheaper is the hurdle
[19:12:00] <roh> lets say 'more reliable, less moving parts and components'
[19:12:04] <L84Supper> without PCIe you are limited to the GPIO on an ARM soc, I haven't seen anything ARM yet with fast enough GPIO that makes any sense
[19:12:06] <roh> pc are dead cheap
[19:12:28] <L84Supper> except for imx6 boards
[19:12:35] <roh> L84Supper: gpio arent faster or slower than what you can to on pci-e.. depending on the latching
[19:13:23] <roh> in the end its all AHB.
[19:14:17] <L84Supper> for $60 i can get an AMD APU mini-itx with a decent GPU + PCIe
[19:14:37] <roh> sure. and it eats power for breakfast and has expensive moving parts which fail
[19:14:45] <roh> and its big.
[19:15:00] <L84Supper> I still can't come close with an ARM soc since they won't sell the SOC's to anyone except for a lucky few
[19:15:06] <roh> together with drives(psu/etc
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[19:16:57] <L84Supper> if i could actually buy imx6 or Exynos parts for $25 in volume, I'd make the boards. I can buy leftovers on Chinese overstock/leftover parts swap sites or out the backdoor for a while.
[19:17:45] <roh> yeah. making boards is hard (expensive) if one doesnt go to 5 or 6 digit scale
[19:17:47] <L84Supper> Renesas never got back to us either with their 2-4 core cortex a9 devices
[19:18:38] <L84Supper> the allwinner a10 cortex a8 doesn't have PCIe and there is no spec for the GPIO's
[19:18:56] <roh> thats why i ask about commodity boards. i could imagine using something like a mesa 7i43 board tied to some arm board via gpio to run the core on
[19:19:14] <L84Supper> somebody leaked source for the amlogic a9's dual core soc
[19:19:18] <roh> forget pci-e. that one doesnt exist in reasonable priced or available boards
[19:19:37] <L84Supper> roh: the ARM soc's just haven't been made available
[19:20:00] <L84Supper> nvidia won't talk to you
[19:20:17] <L84Supper> Samsung is about the same for anything better than an arm11
[19:20:37] <roh> thats why i wrote before.. forget building anything if you dont want to do >5 or 6 digits.
[19:20:40] <L84Supper> freescale imx6 is months behind schedule
[19:21:10] <roh> i do reverse engineering for licence compliance, so i see whats inside a lot of devices... its not we dont have powerful enough chips
[19:21:16] <L84Supper> thee are a few <$100 arm boards ....
[19:21:25] <roh> freescale is utterly expensive.
[19:21:44] <roh> even if i like their open documentation
[19:21:49] <L84Supper> the imx6's are ~$25 for a 2-4 core
[19:22:03] <roh> maybe. too expensive for that market.
[19:22:15] <L84Supper> http://cubieboard.org/
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[19:24:09] <L84Supper> http://liliputing.com/2012/07/hardkernel-odroid-x-129-android-developer-board-with-quad-core-cpu.html
[19:24:28] <roh> L84Supper: there are thousands of useable boards. you dont need to post them all.
[19:24:37] <L84Supper> not really
[19:24:39] <roh> and any would need a proper working arm kernel with rtai or rt.
[19:24:50] <L84Supper> just a few <$100
[19:26:07] <L84Supper> http://wandboard.org/
[19:26:49] <roh> L84Supper: you seem to miss the point. there IS hardware. whats missing is the kernel. what happened to that rtai on beagleboard approach?
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[19:27:12] <L84Supper> if a tablet vendor would route the PCIe out that would solve it
[19:27:47] <L84Supper> roh: there is kernel, we would push RTAI if there was a board worth supporting
[19:27:48] <Jymmm> L84Supper: That's called ThunderBolt btw.
[19:28:23] <L84Supper> Jymmm: whats called "Thunderbolt" ?
[19:28:39] <Jymmm> L84Supper: "vendor would route the PCIe out "
[19:29:00] <roh> forget both. soc vendors dont care about pci-c on low power soc
[19:29:07] <Jymmm> L84Supper: ThunderBolt == External PCIe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_%28interface%29
[19:29:26] <L84Supper> oh external PCIe
[19:30:00] <L84Supper> for now AMD APU's are fine
[19:30:02] <roh> much too expensive power budget and component wise.. and not needed usually. remember.. those soc are mainly intended to go into smartphones, tablets and small notebooks. neither need pci-e or thuberbolt
[19:30:23] <L84Supper> no problem with availability, price, power, RTAI
[19:30:35] <roh> L84Supper: my point is: i wanted something which is 'not a pc'. no acpi, no broken harddisks.. etc
[19:30:59] <roh> and also widely available.. thus using a popular platform
[19:31:00] <L84Supper> yes, thats why we use AMD apu's + coreboot
[19:31:17] <L84Supper> BIOS and EFI are broken
[19:31:19] <roh> ah. coreboot. ok thats a solution to the acpi issue
[19:31:42] <L84Supper> if you have a better suggestion I'm all ears
[19:31:50] <roh> bbl.. need to run.
[19:31:51] <Jymmm> roh: horseshit! How else am I gonna connect my watchphone to a 60" big screen and 20PB NAS for high speed computing!
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[19:32:03] <FinboySlick> L84Supper: Speaking of coreboot... I got a new board at work (server, not linuxcnc related). The bios is 8MB... You could fit an entire kernel as payload with room to spare on those.
[19:32:32] <roh> Jymmm: not. it would run out of power fast anyhow.. i would bet that in a year or 2 most new phones dont have hdmi out anymore. eats space, costs money, nobody uses it
[19:33:21] <Jymmm> roh: you would be surprised.
[19:33:52] <L84Supper> FinboySlick: heh, 10 years ago we had 512K-1MB
[19:33:53] <roh> Jymmm: you know that motorola netbook-thingie?
[19:34:02] <L84Supper> thats why Eric wrote kexec
[19:34:13] <Jymmm> roh: But whats funny is they have their ENTIRE life on a phone, yet no real way to back it up and "reuse" in on another PC if needed.
[19:34:20] <roh> Jymmm: a tft with hdmi in, and a usb keyboard with battery... in a case to plug in your motorola phone...
[19:34:23] <Jymmm> roh: the google tablet, yeah
[19:34:48] <roh> now its sold off for 70E and people use it to build rasberry pi notebooks
[19:35:00] <L84Supper> he fit kernel and coreboot into <512KB or was it even under 256KB at one point
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[19:35:52] <Jymmm> roh: Oh, the "docking station" for your phone. ok.
[19:36:20] <roh> yep. people really like it for nonintened usecases.. i know nobody who has the fitting phone x-)
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[19:36:43] <L84Supper> the new Google/Samsung Chromebook as a dual core a15, not sure if there is any GPIO to hook into
[19:36:56] <Jymmm> roh: heh
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[19:37:04] <L84Supper> maybe SDIO
[19:37:18] <roh> L84Supper: i would use that only for the head to run axis on. ;) put the hostmod somewhere inside the cnc machine, connect via ip
[19:37:34] <roh> would be cool to have a carry-able userinterface
[19:37:45] <L84Supper> roh: have you seen the mini2440 with linuxcnc and RTAI?
[19:38:05] <roh> nope? but i have one of those boards around in our collection
[19:38:07] <L84Supper> arm9 board
[19:38:57] <roh> bbiam. switch locations
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[19:41:45] <L84Supper> http://code.google.com/p/miniemc2/ he used xenomai with Linux kernel version 2.6.35.9
[19:42:00] <L84Supper> mini2440 platform: ARM920T CPU running at 400 MHz, 64Mb
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[20:04:12] <andypugh> roh: Carryable UI? Have you seen
http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/forum/21-axis/18951-touchscreen-operation-with-ipad-possible?start=6&lang=english#25968
[20:07:32] <L84Supper> andypugh: how important is it to have 16b+ res for simulation in LinuxCNC? Is the line art quality good enough for most CNC operators?
[20:08:30] <andypugh> Can you try rephrasing the question in a way I understand?
[20:09:08] <L84Supper> thinking of axis
[20:10:05] <L84Supper> would having the tool path simulation/preview in high res vs the current line art be of any value?
[20:13:15] <L84Supper> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/devel/html/gui/images/axis-2.5.png if this was more photo-realistic would it be of any value?
[20:15:40] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSnNtgZrfyU oh a new ARM Linuxcnc project running on Pico-SAM9G45
[20:15:51] <andypugh> You are thinking of something a bit like awallin's "Cutsim"?
http://www.anderswallin.net/2010/08/cutsim-progress/
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[20:16:52] <L84Supper> andypugh: yes, i haven't seen that yet
[20:19:58] <roh> andypugh: i dont use apple devices.
[20:21:05] <L84Supper> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3Ls5ta7eg8&feature=plcp Linuxcnc (emc2) running on Pico-SAM9G45 high speed spindle test
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[20:22:15] <andypugh> roh: I think that the idea is probably usable on other devices.
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[20:29:32] <L84Supper> http://www.mini-box.com/pico-SAM9G45-X is $69 still ?!
[20:32:21] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6TFW1F6oY0
[20:33:14] <roh> L84Supper: nice board. just no pci-e on the pci-e connector (usb only)
[20:33:26] <L84Supper> if the i.mx6's actually ship for <$20 (single core) then you could make an ARM board with GPIO to support a few steppers drivers for <$50
[20:33:33] <ve7it> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MYQB1NdsXA&feature=related calking extruder making fishing bait.... cool use for emc
[20:34:07] <L84Supper> roh: yeah for steppers, PCIe + FPGA is going to be the only solution for servos for a while
[20:36:36] <L84Supper> ve7it: nice way to 3dp flexible parts
[20:37:11] <ve7it> an o-ring extruder would be handy
[20:38:35] <roh> L84Supper: i will go the parport+7i43 way when using a fpga at all
[20:39:03] <roh> to be fair.. none of the machines we run emc on even has pci-e .. they all are too old
[20:39:49] <roh> we'll see how the lasercutter retrofit works... still need to decide on stepperdrivers and interfacing. (currently we got a newlydraw controller and sw for it)
[20:40:26] <SWPadnos> there are also PCI options, it doesn't have to be PCIe
[20:40:30] <L84Supper> roh: maybe a mod to the VHDL in the 7i43 for other GPIO? make the best use of an ARM SOC's IO
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[20:41:30] <L84Supper> AMD APU's are down to <5W, DDR3 sticks are real cheap
[20:41:39] <andypugh> ve7it: This guy made his own O-rings because he neede super-small ones…
http://www.f1-2000.co.uk/index.php?f=fuel_injectors
[20:41:43] <roh> L84Supper: exactly.. i think we can find 8-16 gpio even on dirt cheap dsl routers
[20:42:19] <roh> andypugh: just cut the o-rings with a lasercutter?
[20:43:09] <roh> or what material is that? ... man thats small
[20:44:10] <L84Supper> silicones for high temp
[20:45:53] <L84Supper> roh: we worked with the mini2440's and the sam9g45's in the past few years for printers
[20:46:33] <roh> btw.. for able people these chinese lasercutters are great fun and bang for the buck. especially if you are not afraid of tinkering and retrofits. the worst part is software (of which we all know better one)
[20:46:38] <L84Supper> there's not much cpu power left for other processes
[20:47:16] <roh> L84Supper: well.. so its a candidate to only run the pid loops etc on and do the ui on something else (gl-capable netbook, chromebook etc)
[20:47:18] <L84Supper> roh; part of what I'm working on is taking Linuxcnc into machines made in China
[20:47:44] <roh> i am right that i can run axis on a non-rtai platform as long as the rest of emc is on rtai/xenomai?
[20:47:57] <L84Supper> yes, over VNC
[20:47:57] <roh> L84Supper: nice. any way one can help?
[20:48:19] <roh> no vnc. i meant running emc distributed via ip
[20:48:34] <roh> i havent tried it but thats how i understood the documentation
[20:48:37] <SWPadnos> roh, yes and no
[20:48:38] <L84Supper> we are talking to the CNC makers there as we shop for our new equipment
[20:48:55] <roh> SWPadnos: dare to elaborate? ;)
[20:49:00] <SWPadnos> AXIS exports some HAL pins, which can't directly connect to the HAL on the RT box
[20:49:21] <SWPadnos> you can tell it not to, but then you lose some things like the currently selected axis and some others I don't remember
[20:49:32] <roh> hm. too bad
[20:49:43] <roh> but it doesnt sound like a unsolveable problem
[20:49:47] <SWPadnos> there was a network HAL component at some point (maybe just an experiment), and you could certainly do something with UDP to make that work
[20:50:16] <andypugh> linuxcncrsh is still there
[20:50:21] <SWPadnos> no, you can get the GUI running on a "remote" machine via SSH, remote X, RDP, or whatever you want
[20:50:36] <SWPadnos> yep, and linuxcncrsh - forgot about that one
[20:50:36] <L84Supper> isn't Peter working on new "over IP" fpga card?
[20:50:46] <roh> remote x11, rdp, vnc are all no solutions i would want to use or trust
[20:50:55] <andypugh> It exists. I am not sure if there is a linuxCNC driver yet.
[20:50:56] <SWPadnos> could be, but that's not HAL, it's whatever he's doing :)
[20:51:11] <L84Supper> UDP
[20:51:18] <SWPadnos> Mesa also has PCIe cards that can run through a cable
[20:51:39] <roh> SWPadnos: needs pci-e hosts again. whats wrong with parports?
[20:51:41] <SWPadnos> but that doesn't separate the RT PC from the UI PC, it only separates the FPGA hardware from the PC
[20:51:44] <L84Supper> ARM tablet with SDIO
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[20:52:28] <SWPadnos> roh, that was a response to the "FPGA not inside or right next to the PC" question
[20:52:49] <roh> on the other hand.. wasnt there a 'replace fpga by using an avr' project?
[20:52:52] <roh> SWPadnos: ah. right
[20:52:54] <roh> sorry
[20:53:00] <SWPadnos> the parport solutions, even FPGA-based ones, don't perform as well as PCI or PCIe ones
[20:53:16] <SWPadnos> there is a PCI adapter card that you can connect to the PCIe remote FPGA, incidentally
[20:53:21] <roh> atleast for simple stepper/encoder solutions i would think a avr based extension board would surfice
[20:53:23] <SWPadnos> 6i67 or something
[20:53:35] <SWPadnos> or 6i7-something
[20:53:40] <L84Supper> https://0xfb.com/shop.html AVR cnc controller
[20:53:47] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9bKdIG_Yw << freakin at the freakers ball
[20:54:02] <roh> SWPadnos: so you would advice against a 7i43 for example?
[20:54:25] <roh> L84Supper: does it work with emc?
[20:54:33] <L84Supper> http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard LPC1769 cortex m3 board
[20:54:44] <L84Supper> roh: no, too small
[20:54:47] <andypugh> 7i43 is a good solution for some things. I am happy with mine.
[20:54:53] <roh> L84Supper: i know loads of those reprap-style-poor-mans-gcode-player crap. not what i meant. proper cnc
[20:54:59] <SWPadnos> I wouldn't advise against anything, just pointing out that if you have 2 cards, with identical FPGAs, and one is PCI and the other parallell port, then the PCI one will likely have better performance
[20:55:01] <L84Supper> 512KB flash and only 64KB ram
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[20:55:19] <roh> L84Supper: not run emc ON the avr. use the avr only instead a mesa board to extend.
[20:55:28] <roh> means clockgen, and encoder inputs.
[20:55:29] <L84Supper> roh: yeah, these are their next gen boards
[20:55:34] <SWPadnos> in terms of the fastest update rate you can get (since PCI lets you transfer many megabytes per second, but parallel port only some few hundred kbytes/sec)
[20:56:11] <roh> SWPadnos: i havent run into issues yet. our hardware is much too slow to need that high steprates atm. not sure about the laser yet tho
[20:56:52] <SWPadnos> step rate and communication/update rate aren't the same thing, that's why you use an FPGA :)
[20:56:59] <L84Supper> yeah, so it comes down to how much data you need to move around and how fast you need it for your application
[20:57:24] <SWPadnos> the 7i43 can do the same MHz (or close enough) step/PWM rates as the 5i2x
[20:57:34] <L84Supper> a large enough FPGA wouldn't need the PC host
[20:57:37] <roh> sure. but what do most people do (when they need cheap and simple stuff)? retrofit a small 3-axis cnc or a sub-2k$ lasercutter?
[20:58:40] <roh> i bet most of those applications do not even need a fpga to be happy, since the mechanics cannot handle feedrates high enough to get into issues.
[20:59:11] <roh> can i ask what kind of machines and maximum feedrates you usually use and see?
[20:59:25] <pfred1> I was all worried about how fast my stepper motors spun until I hooked one up to a lead screw
[20:59:41] <pfred1> then I was like I don't want a lead screw running 2,000 RPM!
[20:59:52] <roh> i am at 1000mm/min on the mill atm, but i guess we could move even faster (syil bf20 cnc with direct steppers)
[21:00:30] <SWPadnos> it's not the feedrate, it's the update rate
[21:00:43] <SWPadnos> a laser has a low mass "head", with zero machining force
[21:00:45] <roh> pfred1: exactly.. in the end its only producing more wear and not real saved time... atleast without toolchangers and quick-clamping mechanisms
[21:00:49] <L84Supper> our idea was to see if the manufacturers would even be interested in the flexibility that LinuxCNC offers over say a Fanuc or Siemens controller
[21:01:23] <roh> L84Supper: from my pov axis is better than most of those simply because its not 20keuro to get a 3d preview rendered ;)
[21:01:25] <L84Supper> the scary part to them so far is that nobody in CNC is familiar with LinuxCNC but everyone has heard of Fanuc
[21:01:37] <SWPadnos> it should be high acceleration, and if you want to do rastering (something which I don't think LinuxCNC is particularly suited for at the moment), then you may want to change the laser power very frequently, while also moving at high speed
[21:01:40] <pfred1> roh thing is there is an upper limit of sane speeds
[21:02:09] <roh> pfred1: ack. thats what i am asking. whats your limit setting?
[21:02:22] <SWPadnos> the resolution of the raster on a machine like that is feed rate / update rate
[21:02:25] <pfred1> I saw a video on youtube where a guy had a 2,000+ IPM machine and when he tried to rapid move it he knocked his limit switch right off
[21:02:59] <pfred1> it was pretty funny
[21:03:16] <L84Supper> also if the machining center is $100K with a Fanuc controller, will a buyer be interested in a LinuxCNC version for $95K?
[21:03:31] <pfred1> probably not
[21:03:39] <L84Supper> for custom machines there aren't many options
[21:04:48] <L84Supper> thats where maybe Comedi and Linuxcnc are attractive
[21:06:05] <roh> L84Supper: on expensive, still in service machines you would need to give gurantees like the vendor does
[21:06:08] <L84Supper> otherwise you're stuck with expensive M$ tools and industrial PC's
[21:07:09] <roh> but in the end i have the feeling that everybody who only has one machine will modify it sooner or later. maybe thats different if you run a hall full of those
[21:07:15] <roh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-4456.jpg is the mill
[21:07:31] <roh> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/File:Raumfahrtagentur-prom-4457.jpg the lasercutter
[21:08:20] <L84Supper> roh; we are working on our own specialized CNC machines with LinuxCNC in China, we are trying to see if the same hardware and software will be of interest to the rest of the industry there
[21:08:41] <L84Supper> not sure yet :)
[21:08:58] <roh> L84Supper: nice to hear
[21:09:45] <roh> as you can see both of our machines are chinese.. then we also got some 3d printers whcih are german, dutch and i guess us in origin (shapercube, ultimaker and popfab)
[21:11:55] <roh> L84Supper: if you got any retrofit kits for chinese machines and want a serious test.. holler and send a board. i am sure i could provide proper traces/measurements/comments
[21:12:14] <L84Supper> roh: all FDM (FFF) filament types?
[21:12:25] <roh> i worked for a taiwanese company some time and still have some friends doing open hardware there and here
[21:12:45] <roh> L84Supper: the 3d printers? yes. all work with abs and or pla (depending on the head)
[21:12:56] <L84Supper> roh: we have a large CNC manufacturer nearby in Suzhou
[21:14:10] <L84Supper> roh; we are working on 3dp for manufacturing there, higher res and faster than FFF
[21:14:41] <roh> what concept? fluids? pulver?
[21:16:29] <roh> the nice thing about fdm is the availability and price of raw materials. basically you have running costs which are dirt cheap if you ignore the often needed service on the machines
[21:16:35] <L84Supper> fluids and also powder, some actually combine several types of deposition
[21:16:58] <roh> i havent seen the fluids and powders in that many colors and materials.. especially not for a nice price.
[21:17:14] <roh> >150E/litre isnt going to make people buy it ;)
[21:17:25] <L84Supper> yeah, the tech was sat on for the past 2 decades
[21:17:43] <roh> but i'd like to see that happen... a friend of mine even wants to become distributor for such machines.
[21:17:55] <L84Supper> photopolymers are under $40/L now, lower in volume
[21:18:11] <roh> how do you fixate? inkjet? uv light(dlp)? or laser?
[21:18:26] <L84Supper> now with the patents expiring there's going to be some growth
[21:18:37] <L84Supper> all the above
[21:19:16] <roh> nice.. if you got something to sell or test.. holler or fire us an email
[21:19:27] <L84Supper> new fluids and materials is one of the big new areas, the older printers would lock you out from using your own materials, much like an inkjet printer
[21:19:58] <roh> exactly. thats why makerbot sells more than dimension printing in that market
[21:20:31] <L84Supper> the same will be true for other additive manufacturing printers
[21:20:38] <roh> even when their machines are less reliable and precise
[21:21:03] <L84Supper> the pro photoplymer printers don't even work well
[21:21:20] <L84Supper> lots of lawsuits over promises never met
[21:21:22] <roh> huh? so all the videos are fake?
[21:21:26] <roh> *g*
[21:21:44] <L84Supper> they work, just not as well as promoted
[21:21:58] <L84Supper> SLA has been around since the 80's
[21:22:18] <roh> true. what hinders the industry to just do it?
[21:22:44] <roh> i mean.. even a 40W co2 laser tube and psu doesnt cost more than 300-400E anymore
[21:22:48] <L84Supper> the previous patent holders and the CEO's of the companies
[21:22:59] <roh> how complicated can it be to melt something selectively?
[21:23:02] <L84Supper> just like inkjet
[21:23:20] <roh> ignore patents. build in china
[21:23:44] <L84Supper> the HP thermal patents are expiring, that's another reason why Lexmark is selling off the division
[21:24:19] <roh> so thats the 'bubblejet'-patent then?
[21:24:31] <L84Supper> inkjet is another industry held back by the big players controlling the industry
[21:24:57] <L84Supper> yes, the thermal inkjets
[21:25:24] <roh> sure. but that industry has proven that reliable mechanics for cnc machines are possible for consumer electronics
[21:25:29] <roh> which is nice.
[21:25:50] <L84Supper> $5/L ink for $3500/L in 35mL plastic cartridges
[21:26:13] <pfred1> inkjet sucks
[21:26:26] <roh> if they wanted they could sell a every-living-room-fdm machine at hp... but they dont seem to want to. instead they got that boring 3d designjet, which is big as an industrial oven
[21:26:50] <L84Supper> or 35mL but it starts to drop nozzles after 15ml since they count drops vs actually check the level
[21:26:59] <roh> pfred1: ack. we just got ourselves a lexmark laser printer for the hackspace. works. speaks ethernet. doesnt need service besides adding more paper
[21:27:14] <pfred1> laser is way better
[21:27:24] <roh> actually paper and power is more expensive than toner when you buy a sane machine
[21:28:13] <L84Supper> the laser printer industry has also helped dropped the costs of making SLA printers
[21:28:39] <L84Supper> all those great optics for cheap
[21:28:39] <roh> how much thermal power in which wavelength does sla really need?
[21:28:53] <roh> i mean.. could one use a properly retrofit lasercutter?
[21:29:01] <L84Supper> sure
[21:29:18] <roh> or maybe even diode lasers are powerful enough (and much smaller)
[21:29:37] <L84Supper> blue ray lasers are ~$5
[21:29:39] <roh> and i guess safer to handle.. most people have no clue how dangerous 20-30kV dc are
[21:30:06] <roh> <- certified tv mechanic ;)
[21:30:44] <roh> L84Supper: do you know anybody working on laser psu by accident?
[21:30:53] <L84Supper> I still have a scar on both sides of my forearm from the arc through my arm
[21:31:03] <roh> ouch.
[21:31:12] <L84Supper> wet arm got between flyback and chasis
[21:31:26] <L84Supper> learned that lesson :)
[21:31:35] <roh> i added extra insulation after ive seen how our machine was delivered
[21:32:03] <L84Supper> roh: what voltage and current are you looking for?
[21:32:23] <roh> also i can acknowlege the myth that one smells a co2 laser beam into a finger before you feel it
[21:32:43] <roh> smells like burning meat (aka 'if it smells like chicken...')
[21:33:28] <roh> L84Supper: dunno. from what i can measure mechanically (no hv measurement gear) and specs i guess our psu does 15-22kV and around 15-20mA
[21:33:48] <L84Supper> http://usabledevices.com/2012/11/03/first-shanghai-maker-carnival/
[21:34:06] <roh> i havent found any psu which looks similar to the one we have. but ive reverse engineered the schematic and think i know how it works.
[21:34:08] <L84Supper> http://i.youku.com/spanner888
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[21:35:54] <roh> its basically 2 boards mounted on a epoxy isolator. one with a tl494 based, 2 mosfet driver smpsu, one with 2 diode split transformers in series for making HV out of hf-ac
[21:36:06] <L84Supper> http://laser-cn.en.made-in-china.com/product-group/HqCmVYSbbnWg/Laser-Power-Supply-catalog-1.html
[21:36:11] <roh> but it doesnt have a pwm in. just ttl
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[21:36:51] <roh> yeah. i know those. ours doesnt have its own casing. any idea whats inside? (pictures, schematics?)
[21:37:24] <roh> i'd love to add pwm input and or frequency input like the 'better' machines do (epilog etc)
[21:37:32] <L84Supper> very similar to the old CRT HV flyback circuits
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[21:38:04] <roh> true. but it seems they limit the amount of energy per half-wave by doing ac coupling. very weird
[21:38:20] <L84Supper> what you probably need ar sources for flyback transformers and HV tipplers and diodes
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[21:39:45] <roh> http://yamato.hyte.de/tmp/high-voltage_driver-board.pdf
[21:39:49] <L84Supper> there used to be more suppliers, the same parts are also found in high power RF
[21:39:51] <roh> thats the schematic i drew
[21:40:16] <L84Supper> I'll BBL
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[21:51:57] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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[23:07:22] <spamftw> Anyone have any experience with the probekins module? All the information on the wiki seems to start after you've mapped the bed
[23:08:00] <spamftw> I'd like to use a sensor to map the bed programatically (by jogging z, in a grid) but cannot see any info on that part of the process
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[23:10:17] <tjb1> Evening #linuxcnc
[23:12:39] <pfred1> its all your fault
[23:13:20] <tjb1> its your fault!
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[23:16:13] <pfred1> yeah it probably is but I like to lay blame
[23:16:43] <pfred1> I was making such good progress on my machine but I haven't worked on it in 2 days now
[23:17:19] <pfred1> I blame hurricane Sandy!
[23:20:08] <Tom_itx> claim a loss
[23:20:59] <pfred1> get me some Obamabucks!
[23:21:00] <tjb1> I worked on mine today some
[23:21:28] <pfred1> paulie needs a new pair of stepper motor drivers ...
[23:21:49] <pfred1> I cleaned my yard up some more
[23:21:51] <tjb1> http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/69147_4550007544223_756397905_n.jpg
[23:21:53] <tjb1> :)
[23:21:57] <tjb1> That thing is heavy!
[23:22:31] <pcw_home> Damn just let the dog out and he spooked a little deer.
[23:22:33] <pcw_home> It promptly jumped strait into the fence a broke its neck
[23:22:35] <pfred1> wow it takes up your whole garage
[23:23:00] <tjb1> That actually half the garage
[23:23:16] <tjb1> Thats good eatin pcw_home
[23:23:28] <pcw_home> if I ate meat
[23:23:32] <pfred1> I don't like venison
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[23:24:10] <pfred1> although if things ever get bad I guess I'll start eating them
[23:24:49] <pfred1> once here during rutting season I saw a field around the corner from me and it was packed with deer shoulder to shoulder acres of them!
[23:25:59] <pcw_home> They seem to be able to jump our fence to get in but never get out unless I open the gate
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[23:26:19] <pfred1> deer usually slink under split rail fences
[23:26:26] <pfred1> it is kind of funny to watch them
[23:26:46] <pfred1> I mean you'd think they'd jump it but they kind of forward limbo under them
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[23:28:09] <pfred1> tjb1 you look pretty far along with your build what do you have left to do?
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[23:39:22] <tjb1> finish water table and add thcud that JT made
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[23:41:17] <pfred1> oh that is a plasma cutter?
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[23:44:03] <Kirk_Wallace> It looks like LinuxCNC can be installed on Lenny:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Debian_Lenny_Compile_RTAI
[23:44:18] <Kirk_Wallace> I assume Squeeze should be similar?
[23:46:23] <pfred1> Kirk_Wallace I have LinuxCNC running on Lenny here
[23:46:45] <pfred1> well i think what I'm running is actually EMC2
[23:46:54] <pfred1> it is that old
[23:48:13] <Kirk_Wallace> I want to try LCNC with this kiosk setup:
http://www.alandmoore.com/blog/2011/11/05/creating-a-kiosk-with-linux-and-x11-2011-edition/
[23:48:19] <pfred1> as far as I can tell there is no actual performance advantage to installing LinuxCNC on Debian over Ubuntu
[23:48:37] <pfred1> I didn't get any higher latency score or anything
[23:48:58] <mutilator> i dont see why you would
[23:49:04] <tjb1> yes pfred1
[23:49:08] <mutilator> ubuntu is just debian packaed with more crap
[23:49:40] <pfred1> well that system boots up faster
[23:50:15] <pfred1> I improved the stock boot by 20%
[23:52:16] <Kirk_Wallace> The kiosk system has minimal software installed so there is less software to lock out. Boot, auto login, auto start CNC app, run, exit CNC, auto power off.
[23:53:56] <roh> hm.. boottimes never were an issue for us.. we let the machines warm up for 5min anyhow
[23:57:29] <pfred1> I've seen Windows systems that took about that long to boot
[23:57:55] <pfred1> but in the case of Linux 20% is only 5 seconds
[23:58:25] <Kirk_Wallace> Boot times are not my biggest issue. The look and feel of an industrial controller is the goal. I can get the standard LinuxCNC to do the automated bits, but the desktop keeps popping up here and there and there are too many places to wander.
