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[00:00:07] <pcw_home> smoke signals!
[00:00:18] <pfred1> smoke is a valuable troubleshooting tool
[00:00:39] <pfred1> bright flashes can often be missed in my experience
[00:02:01] <Aero-Tec> no flash, the wiring is still not a 100% short, the motor has to run for awhile before the smoke starts
[00:02:25] <Aero-Tec> it is just a small arcing
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[00:03:27] <Aero-Tec> you can not even see it with the cover removed, one does see the burnt coil, but it is not real bad yet
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[00:03:45] <pcw_home> Arcs generate major EMI
[00:03:51] <Aero-Tec> yes
[00:03:51] <pfred1> I've had shorted motor coils that look OK
[00:04:19] <Aero-Tec> and it was arcing to ground
[00:04:30] <pfred1> well where else would it arc to?
[00:04:45] -!- theos [theos!~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #linuxcnc
[00:04:48] <Aero-Tec> another coil
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[00:05:33] <pcw_home> Overheating can cause shorted turns
[00:05:36] <pfred1> polyphase motor?
[00:06:15] <pfred1> I have a grinder here someone cooked pretty good but it runs OK today
[00:06:28] <pfred1> I guess it has self healing winding insulation?
[00:06:33] <Aero-Tec> anyways, I sure hope this motor arc theory is correct and a new motor will fix things up good as new
[00:06:38] <pcw_home> burned -in?
[00:06:47] <pfred1> pcw_home really burned in
[00:07:01] <pfred1> it runs like a cham today though
[00:07:04] <pfred1> champ even
[00:07:10] <pcw_home> better than burned-out
[00:07:19] <pfred1> let me find the pic of it
[00:07:37] <Aero-Tec> sounds like someone stalled the motor for to long and it over heated
[00:07:52] <Aero-Tec> or over loaded it
[00:08:12] <Aero-Tec> a motor can smoke and still be OK
[00:08:38] <Aero-Tec> I was hoping mine would have had a small simple thing wrong and I could fix it
[00:08:48] <pfred1> well good old imgur isn't working too swift today
[00:09:12] <pfred1> http://i.imgur.com/ieMSq.jpg
[00:09:21] <Aero-Tec> like the starting switch not opening up
[00:09:46] <pfred1> yeah the starter switch in it might have been seized
[00:10:26] <pfred1> the coil looked like someone barbequed it
[00:10:37] <Aero-Tec> I checked it
[00:10:46] <Aero-Tec> the switch has working well
[00:10:48] <pcw_home> Thats no spring chicken...
[00:11:00] <pfred1> yeah I have another one just like it
[00:11:12] <JT-Shop> nor a springer
[00:11:34] <pfred1> you gotta love how whoever sold it had to write works in the price
[00:11:49] <pfred1> because when I first plugged it in it didn't work
[00:11:53] <andypugh> pfred1: Screwdrivers & etc? You didn't do latin at school did you?
[00:11:56] <pfred1> the thermal had been tripped
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[00:12:13] <pfred1> andypugh no I didn't
[00:12:43] <pfred1> but i see what you're driving at because etc means and
[00:13:01] <andypugh> "&" is a stylized "Et" I believe.
[00:13:18] <andypugh> You quite often see &c in older books.
[00:13:29] <pfred1> yeah well I put that there so I don't forget there is other stuff than just screwdrivers in that drawer
[00:14:03] <pfred1> at my age I'm lucky i remember my own name half the time
[00:14:06] <andypugh> I can't believe how often I look in the spanners drawer for a screwdriver.
[00:14:30] <andypugh> They aren't labelled, but that's no excuse, there are only 4 drawers.
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[00:15:06] <pfred1> well I repurpose the drawers in that box a lot
[00:15:34] <pfred1> or when i put the labels on the drawers I'd just repurposed them all so that helped me remember what was in any of them
[00:15:56] <pfred1> those are really my overflow screwdrivers not the ones i use all the time
[00:16:54] <pfred1> in this pic you can see the screwdrivers I don't need to label
http://i.imgur.com/1HE2r.jpg
[00:17:26] <pfred1> evne those aren't my main toolbox screwdrivers but those are the ones i use when I'm over in that spot
[00:17:47] <andypugh> You are a man of many vices, I see.
[00:17:55] <pfred1> yes i am :)
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[00:18:28] <pfred1> I can't believe the British don't have the word vise
[00:19:04] <pfred1> do you guys have vice squads or is that just an American thing?
[00:19:31] <andypugh> We use the same word to mean two different things. It makes for more amusing jokes.
[00:19:46] <pfred1> over here it just means some folks are ignorant
[00:20:21] <andypugh> http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/rr277/eagmeister/cj_009.gif
[00:20:43] <pfred1> heh
[00:20:59] <pfred1> I wonder if i have a pic of my woodworkign bench?
[00:21:02] <JT-Shop> so my surface grinder table has 0.018" tilt in the Y direction... if I shim up a test plate it is almost flat
[00:21:18] <pfred1> dang
[00:21:43] <pfred1> magnetic chuck on your surface grinder?
[00:21:47] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Does that actually affect the results?
[00:21:55] <JT-Shop> took the chuck off
[00:21:58] <pfred1> I had a really hard time learning how to surface grind
[00:22:06] <JT-Shop> yea it is tilted
[00:22:17] <pfred1> man when I started i thought the motion wasj ust the funniest thing
[00:22:44] <JT-Shop> the Y axis ways are flat
[00:22:57] <andypugh> JT-Shop: Yes, but it might still generate flats. It depends whether the top is parallel to the ways or not.
[00:23:19] <andypugh> Ah, OK. Tapered table then?
[00:23:30] <JT-Shop> it puts the magnetic chuck at an angle so things are tapered in the Y axis
[00:23:37] <andypugh> It isn't a build-up of concrungulate in the slides is it?
[00:23:49] <JT-Shop> something is out of wack
[00:23:57] <JT-Shop> the X axis uses rollers
[00:24:05] <pfred1> 0.018 is gigantic for grinding
[00:24:12] <JT-Shop> and X indicates really flat
[00:24:15] <JT-Shop> yea
[00:24:32] <pfred1> surface grinding is pretty bad assed though
[00:24:59] <pfred1> I can make a finish that looks like a magnetic tape with the oil slick and stuff
[00:25:06] <JT-Shop> I'll have to take the table off to see what is up
[00:25:21] <pfred1> we had a huge power surface grinder too
[00:25:30] <pfred1> I mean you could walk into it
[00:25:45] <pfred1> 4 foot diameter wheel
[00:26:22] <pfred1> whenever i had to do nickel chromium bodies I'd have to get them done on that
[00:26:38] <pfred1> they were too hard they'd warp
[00:27:00] <tjb1> Ive run a blanchard grinder that had something like a 4 ft diameter
[00:27:14] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av9fuRmEpDg
[00:27:45] <pfred1> tjb1 I didn't run the big grinder we had one guy that ran it all day long he wouldn't let anyone near it
[00:27:51] <pfred1> Stanley
[00:28:06] <pfred1> I don't even think he'd have let the company owner near it
[00:28:13] * JT-Shop wanders back inside now
[00:28:15] <tjb1> I dont see running grinders as fun
[00:28:28] <tjb1> My arm is usually tired after 20 minutes on a manual surface grinder
[00:28:29] <pfred1> I appreciate the job they do
[00:29:13] <pfred1> if you need stuff to a ten thousandth of an inch it is the way to fly
[00:29:38] <tjb1> I prefer to rub my parts with a piece of copy paper
[00:29:41] <tjb1> ;)
[00:29:54] <pfred1> we'd use wet or dry sandpaper sometimes too
[00:30:00] <tjb1> Im kidding
[00:30:04] <pfred1> I'm not
[00:30:17] <pfred1> I'd use that on the graduated bases
[00:30:38] <pfred1> we had a pneumatic rotary table for those
[00:30:52] <pfred1> but sometimes I'd finish dress them on some 600 grit sandpaper
[00:31:13] <pfred1> let me find a picture of what i used to make
[00:31:21] <tjb1> Ever pick up a piece of like 3000 grit sandpaper and ask yourself what the hell is this even going to do?
[00:31:56] <pfred1> http://www.emachinetool.com/images/catalogs/accessories/standard/js-dresser.jpg
[00:32:01] <pfred1> I used to make those
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[00:33:19] <andypugh> Those look too nice to be near grinding dust
[00:33:30] <tjb1> Very nice pfred1
[00:33:34] <pfred1> oh you should see the condition they came in we rebuilt them
[00:33:50] <pfred1> after they'd been slammed by sheels and stuff
[00:33:54] <pfred1> wheels even
[00:34:06] <pfred1> we'd send them back out like new
[00:34:18] <pfred1> just the rebuild cost $1,500
[00:34:39] <mikegg> pcw_home: any plans for a super port 7I40 ?
[00:34:41] <pfred1> new the unit that one there that is a mid sized one it is about $4,000
[00:34:54] <pfred1> the mike base is extra
[00:35:07] <tjb1> Anyone here seen the new Orange Vises?
[00:35:41] <pfred1> tjb1 got a link?
[00:36:00] <pfred1> I kind of like Wilton for vises but I'd never spend what they cost
[00:36:19] <tjb1> http://orangevise.com/
[00:37:06] <pfred1> my milling vise is a real POS
[00:38:31] <pcw_home> mikegg yes 8C21 (48V 30A 3 phase drive - can do brush as well)
[00:38:33] <andypugh> I have a Kurt double vise (looks like a vice to me) with no jaws. I really ought to try to get rid of it.
[00:39:19] <pfred1> but don't laugh too hard i got it at a flea market for $20
http://i.imgur.com/pwzbv.jpg
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[00:39:59] <pfred1> I had to pull it all apart and regrind the threads it was stripped out and the movable jaw was cracked
[00:40:34] <pfred1> I don't know it works OK to me now
[00:40:59] <mikegg> pcw_home, will you do a high voltage model as well?
[00:41:07] <tjb1> You have some nice flea markets...
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[00:41:18] <tjb1> Nothing but the same garbage every year at the one I go to
[00:41:32] <tjb1> The chinese have even started bring their junk too it
[00:41:36] <pfred1> oh i travel around
[00:42:01] <andypugh> mikegg: 8i20?
[00:42:38] <pfred1> tjb1 I got this vise for a dollar but when I got it it was all filthy I thought it was chinese
http://i.imgur.com/Y0kAC.jpg
[00:42:48] <pcw_home> 8I21 is what I meant
[00:42:54] <mikegg> heh, 400 volts is too high. I need something in the middle
[00:43:42] <pfred1> what is wrong with imgur tonight it is loading so slowly for me
[00:44:20] <pcw_home> 8i21 is 48V
[00:44:41] <tjb1> pretty decent pfred1
[00:45:14] <pfred1> tjb1 I mostly just buy my tools used anymore
[00:45:23] <mikegg> I'd like to try the 8I20's, but if I go that route I'd probably buy five of them. Just not ready to plunk down a grand I guess
[00:45:46] <tjb1> Not my picture but I got this -
http://www.bergeng.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/599-603-146-3.jpg Brown and Sharpe 0-6" depth micrometer for $60
[00:46:40] <pfred1> I got a Micotoyo for $3 at an estate sale but no extra anvils
[00:46:53] <pfred1> oh that sale made me sick
[00:47:13] <pfred1> a whole cellar loaded with tooling but I was in the process of moving so I had to pass on most of it
[00:47:29] <pfred1> I could have went back the next day and got it all for like $100
[00:47:56] <pfred1> but I didn't want to have to move it all
[00:48:21] <pfred1> I still regret that
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[00:48:47] <pfred1> because the people had no idea what any of it was worth
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[00:49:16] <tjb1> I havent really started getting tools yet
[00:49:22] <tjb1> Not sure if I am going to be working as a machinist
[00:49:25] <archivist> dont see many estate sales over here
[00:49:25] <pfred1> every time I went up to the girl with a handful of stuff she'd look at it and say, give me $3
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[00:49:53] <pfred1> it didn't seem to matter what it was
[00:50:45] <pfred1> archivist I go to a lot of estate sales but I never saw one like that one
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[00:50:56] <pfred1> this cellar was packed!
[00:52:07] <pfred1> estate sales are run by professionals and they run friday saturday and sunday and if you go late sunday everything is almost free
[00:52:23] <pfred1> because they figure it is now or never to get any more money out of anything
[00:53:35] <tjb1> Not that many machine shops around here
[00:53:42] <tjb1> So I dont imagine there would be a lot of people just packing tools
[00:53:47] <archivist> over here "estates" go to a local auction house general auction usually else a local "house clearance" company
[00:54:03] <pfred1> last one I was at i picked up this beautiful pair of Utica tools linesmans pliers took it up to the check out table they said give me a quarter for them
[00:54:28] <pfred1> I kicked myself because i left two other pairs of pliers behind
[00:54:50] <archivist> although an auction company quoted one family and I got to hear....7 car loads of books :)
[00:55:08] <pfred1> book scanning is big
[00:55:39] <pfred1> there are phone apps where you can scan the UPC symbol in books and they tell you what they are worth on Amazon
[00:56:02] <pfred1> so buying used books can be very competitive
[00:56:52] <pfred1> last good book I got was a 1957 book about Leonardo Da Vinci I paid $5 for it is is worth about $80
[00:56:57] <archivist> ebay and amazon have ruined the second hand market
[00:57:05] <pfred1> they have
[00:57:22] <pfred1> but what I like to remind people this ain't ebay
[00:58:35] <jdh> I like to remind sellers I can buy via ebay and amazon
[00:58:36] <mikegg> pcw_home, could I do 5I25 -> 7I74 -> 7I69 -> 2 x 7I40H ?
[00:59:11] <mikegg> Pretty round about way I suppose
[00:59:39] <mikegg> but these aren't anywhere near 3 hp servos
[01:00:46] <pcw_home> 7I69 cannot drive 7I40, not fast enough but its conceivable
[01:01:32] <tjb1> anyone happen to have a chart of wires and their power for PC power supplies?
[01:03:30] <pfred1> tjb1 ought oh what are you doing?
[01:03:36] <tjb1> actually I found it
[01:03:47] <tjb1> Im using a pc power supply in my electronics box because all my wall warts suck
[01:04:04] <pfred1> PC PSU today should have 3.3 5 12 and -12?
[01:04:20] <tjb1> yes
[01:04:38] <pfred1> make one of my PSUs
[01:05:17] <pfred1> tjb1 this one is amazing
http://www.instructables.com/id/300-Watt-Linear-Power-Supply/
[01:05:38] <tjb1> im not into building electronic items
[01:05:42] <tjb1> it usually always fails :)
[01:05:44] <pfred1> bah piffle
[01:05:58] <pfred1> althoug hthat one is deceptively simple even I screwed it up initially
[01:06:08] <tjb1> i already have this computer psu
[01:06:45] <pfred1> yes that is the popular argument always
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[01:07:53] <pfred1> PC PSU SMPS aren't ideal general purpose supplies though
[01:08:24] <tjb1> why?
[01:08:40] <pfred1> well because they are designed to run computers
[01:09:00] <pfred1> some very special designed in fact
[01:09:18] <pfred1> really the crappier the PSU is the more suited it is for general purpose use
[01:09:46] <tjb1> this is off an old dell, probably 10 years old
[01:09:48] <tjb1> or more
[01:09:49] <pfred1> but the nicer ones have sensing circuitry in them that makes them less desirable for different tasks
[01:10:11] <tjb1> well its stamped march 2003 on the side
[01:10:16] <pfred1> yeah the output filter caps on that aren't in too bad a shape I'm sure
[01:10:37] <tjb1> all you have to do is run green -> ground and it works
[01:10:55] <pfred1> some expect a 10% load for regulation
[01:11:11] <pfred1> you have ot understand how a regulated supply works
[01:11:17] <pfred1> they work with feedback
[01:11:51] <pfred1> insufficient load and they cannot regulate properly
[01:12:01] <tjb1> this isnt one of those :)
[01:12:12] <pfred1> yeah some won't even come on without a load
[01:12:57] <tjb1> hardest part about using this is cutting the hole in my box for the fan and plug
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[01:13:41] <pfred1> well let's hope the PSU isn't a current ripple pump these days for you
[01:14:11] <pfred1> that is what happens to them when the output filter caps go bad
[01:14:57] <tjb1> not a big loss for me
[01:14:58] <tjb1> heh
[01:15:11] <pfred1> some things don't need clean power
[01:15:34] <tjb1> this is for a couple relays, BOB, 4 inductive prox sensors and 2 fans
[01:15:46] <pfred1> the BOB might like clean power
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[01:16:10] <pfred1> it may have its own on board regulator though
[01:16:26] <pfred1> is it a 12 volt input?
[01:16:44] <tjb1> 5v
[01:16:47] <pfred1> oh
[01:17:03] <pfred1> I designed my BOB with on board regulation
[01:17:16] <pfred1> http://www.instructables.com/id/Parallel-Port-Break-Out-Board-BOB/
[01:17:38] <tjb1> im gonna tear this psu down and remove all but the 12v and 5v wires
[01:17:43] <tjb1> I dont need 20 of them lol
[01:17:46] <pfred1> people do that
[01:17:53] <pfred1> just be careful of the input caps
[01:18:05] <pfred1> well it has been off a long time now right?
[01:18:19] <tjb1> im not doing it now, ill let it sit all week
[01:18:37] <pfred1> most PSUs have bleeders on the input caps in circuit
[01:18:50] <tjb1> i just tore the cover off to see where the wires were going…they have like 6 yellow going through a hole in the board
[01:19:09] <tjb1> and then 1 yellow right in front of it so 1 joint and I just eliminated all of the yellow I dont need
[01:19:19] <pfred1> I want to get into making custom SMPS when I get back into electronics
[01:19:31] <pfred1> they are interesting
[01:19:57] <pfred1> it is what I'm into now high current electronics
[01:20:18] <pfred1> the low current stuff just seems boring to me anymore
[01:20:23] <tjb1> im into making things…mechanical things not electrical
[01:20:34] <tjb1> electronics drives me crazy
[01:20:35] <pfred1> oh electronics is my passion
[01:20:47] <pfred1> to me it is like magic
[01:20:54] <tjb1> yeah it is magic
[01:21:00] <tjb1> after this weekend im convinced
[01:21:05] <pfred1> well I dig that
[01:21:55] <pfred1> I make mechanical things to achieve goals and it's OK I guess
[01:22:13] <pfred1> but I don't like doing it nearly as much as I like fooling with electronics
[01:22:31] <pfred1> like I won't make mechanical stuff just for the fun of it
[01:22:40] <tjb1> that is the fun of it lol
[01:22:47] <r00t4rd3d> where the hell is the REPLY button in Google+
[01:22:51] <pfred1> nah I have to have a specific goal in mind
[01:22:55] <tjb1> who uses google+
[01:22:59] <pfred1> I do
[01:23:06] <tjb1> 2 people
[01:23:09] <pfred1> the reply appears when you hover over the comment
[01:23:17] <pfred1> normally it is hidden
[01:23:22] <r00t4rd3d> I dont see it anywhere
[01:23:26] <pfred1> it is by the +1
[01:23:30] <pfred1> to the right
[01:23:56] <pfred1> it should appear when your mouse is on the comment
[01:24:01] <pfred1> your cursor
[01:24:09] <r00t4rd3d> it doesnt show up
[01:24:18] <pfred1> are you logged in?
[01:24:23] <r00t4rd3d> i get the +1 and flag but thats it
[01:24:40] <pfred1> yeah it is right to the right of +1
[01:24:48] <pfred1> but it isn't there unless you put the mouse there
[01:25:16] <pfred1> you cna always + the username then pick it off the floating menu it gives you
[01:25:18] -!- adb has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
[01:25:46] <pfred1> or here is another trick go to the user's page and get their ID number out of the URL then + that
[01:25:55] <pfred1> google will parse it int oa message to that user
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[01:26:23] <pfred1> plussing a user ID always works
[01:28:18] <pfred1> one thing I can't figure out on google+ is how to opt out of what's hot
[01:28:20] <r00t4rd3d> ahh that workded
[01:28:44] <pfred1> you plussed their user ID number?
[01:29:03] <r00t4rd3d> yeah
[01:29:08] <pfred1> that is handy if someone's name has some strange characters in it
[01:29:32] <pfred1> yeah plussing their ID is a neat trick
[01:31:07] <pfred1> ha I just figured out where to disable what's hot
[01:33:37] <r00t4rd3d> where ?
[01:34:06] <r00t4rd3d> ahh explore page
[01:34:10] <pfred1> go to the explore page then move the top slider al lthe way to the left
[01:34:12] <pfred1> yes
[01:34:35] <pfred1> last time I looked in my profile settings for it
[01:35:25] <pfred1> google+roll
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[01:35:44] <r00t4rd3d> now how to remove the find people shit
[01:36:04] <pfred1> beats me no one i know has ever found me in google
[01:36:13] <pfred1> facebook scared the crap out of me!
[01:36:30] <pfred1> if i haven't talked to someone in over 20 years I probably have my reasons you know?
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[01:41:28] <r00t4rd3d> do you live in delaware?
[01:41:48] <r00t4rd3d> cause I found your ass
[01:45:08] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d yes
[01:45:25] <pfred1> I am Paul Frederick on google+
[01:45:41] <pfred1> you cna add me but I rarely post anything i mostly troll other people's posts
[01:46:28] <pfred1> I mostly follow Linux news on google+
[01:49:07] <r00t4rd3d> do you have a android phone?
[01:50:07] <pfred1> no
[01:51:27] <r00t4rd3d> iphone?
[01:52:19] <pfred1> I don't have a mobile phone
[01:52:27] <r00t4rd3d> WHAT THE FUCK
[01:52:27] <pfred1> I never got in the habit
[01:53:04] <pfred1> I was older when mobile phones came out so I looked at it like I got this far without one
[01:53:23] <Aero-Tec> one last detail about the lathe
[01:53:55] <Aero-Tec> I got a new miller dynasty TIG welder
[01:54:21] <Aero-Tec> when the problems started it was right after doing some welding with the new welder
[01:55:42] <Aero-Tec> I am now thinking that the noise from the tig started the whole motor shorting problem
[01:56:36] <Aero-Tec> I was thinking it was the drives that got damaged from the TIG noise
[01:56:45] <pfred1> I have a miller econoTIG
[01:57:01] <Aero-Tec> that is what started the whole trip down the road I went down
[01:57:16] <pfred1> well when you electric weld stuff you should make sure you have disconnected circuit pathways
[01:57:28] <pfred1> like if you weld on a car disconnect the battery ground
[01:57:56] <pfred1> it saves you from possibly blowing out your alternator diodes
[01:58:28] <pfred1> but I guess the same applies to any machine make sure the path is open
[01:58:48] <pfred1> so there is no possibllity any current can flow in a circuit
[01:58:58] <Aero-Tec> would be a pain to unplug very thing to weld
[01:59:10] <pfred1> more of a pain to replace burnt out stuff
[01:59:19] <Aero-Tec> and the motor was switched off
[01:59:28] <pfred1> well motors are a special case
[01:59:38] <pfred1> they have coilk that can induce a current
[01:59:41] <pfred1> coils
[02:00:12] <pfred1> you know like a transformer can
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[02:00:59] <Aero-Tec> being a reversible motor the off switch would have completely disconnected the motor from power, except the ground wire
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[02:02:15] <Aero-Tec> the motor is encased in metal that shields the coils from stray induced noise
[02:02:29] <pfred1> if one leg of the motor is completely dicsonnected I can't see how it vould flow a current myself
[02:03:14] <pfred1> electric welding is some pretty nutty stuff though I hate to take chances
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[02:03:26] <pfred1> ever try to weld by a magnet?
[02:03:37] <Aero-Tec> the motor is completely disconnected except for the ground wire when the motor is switched off
[02:03:45] <pfred1> man i got no idea why they sell those magnetic holders for welding
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[02:04:00] <pfred1> any magnet totally messes up my TIG arc
[02:04:05] <r00t4rd3d> stick welding with a car battery is the best
[02:04:34] <pfred1> makes the arc waver all over the place
[02:05:17] <pfred1> r00t4rd3d yeah I said earlier whenever I electric weld on a car I always disconnect the battery ground
[02:05:35] <pfred1> I don't want people coming back saying I burned this or that out in their car on them
[02:05:56] <Aero-Tec> the wires going to the motor must have been enough of a antenna for the RF noise to arc the worn wire coatings
[02:06:22] <pfred1> I have burnt up some wires pretty badly welding
[02:06:28] <pfred1> but usually gas welding
[02:06:38] <pfred1> I fried one harness once
[02:06:46] <Aero-Tec> it must have been so close to burning through that the RF sig from the TIG punched through
[02:06:46] <pfred1> I mean literally fried it
[02:06:58] <pfred1> TIG is HF
[02:07:23] <Aero-Tec> yes and the weld is RF
[02:07:30] <Aero-Tec> the arcing
[02:07:41] <pfred1> my TIG converts to a stick
[02:07:52] <pfred1> and it is a sweet stick welder
[02:07:57] <Aero-Tec> try listening to a radio while someone is welding
[02:08:13] <pfred1> try listening to a radio anytime
[02:08:21] <Aero-Tec> arc welding that is
[02:08:22] <pfred1> here we got two kinds of music
[02:08:26] <pfred1> country and western
[02:08:40] <Aero-Tec> gas welding is no problem
[02:08:58] <pfred1> well gas welding can be a problem if distortion is an issue
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[02:09:32] <pfred1> I started off gas welding but I was having a lot of distortion issues
[02:10:02] <pfred1> you have to pump a lot of heat into a metal with a flame to get it up to welding temps
[02:11:51] <pfred1> ever zap yourself really good with your TIG?
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[02:29:19] <Xabster> pfred1, i installed 10.04 regular ubuntu on my machine and it found my sata controller - then i went through the steps to upgrade to linuxcnc as given on the site and then it lost the ability to detect my sata controller again
[02:29:28] <Xabster> do you remember me? :)
[02:29:36] <pfred1> yes
[02:29:52] <pfred1> it must be the kernel
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[02:31:13] <Aero-Tec> no, I have never zapped myself with any of my welders
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[03:55:47] <Jymmm> Does anyone know if fiberglass resin will adhere to ABS?
[03:56:23] <pfred1> probably if you scuff it
[03:56:32] <Jymmm> cool
[03:56:33] <pfred1> fiberglass resin sticks to pretty much everything
[03:56:59] <pfred1> I won't even get near the stuff unless i Have acetone
[03:58:50] <Jymmm> I have a gallon of acetone =)
[04:00:02] <pfred1> yeah don't go near fiberglass resin without it
[04:00:16] <pfred1> stuff is nasty!
[04:00:46] <Jymmm> heh, I'll be sure to wear a respirator too
[04:00:49] <pfred1> whenever I fiberglass anything I get hands like sasquach
[04:01:21] <pfred1> the fumes never bothered me
[04:01:54] <pfred1> you do have to be a little careful putting the hardener into the resin sometimes
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[04:02:12] <pfred1> a buddy of mine that worked at a boat yard tells me the reaction can run away
[04:02:39] <Jymmm> ah, good to know, I'll do small atches at a time
[04:02:40] <pfred1> he says he's seen pots of resin burst into flame
[04:02:54] <Jymmm> lovely
[04:03:04] <pfred1> using too little hardener isn't good either
[04:03:16] <Jymmm> I have a gram scale
[04:03:17] <pfred1> I've had the stuff take days to setup
[04:03:53] <pfred1> well I'd tend to err on too much rather than too little
[04:04:14] <pfred1> to get the resin to flame yo ureally got to dump a lot of hardener into it
[04:04:41] <pfred1> oh and they don't give you enough catalyist t oreally kick off the resin either buy more
[04:05:04] <pfred1> I always get a big tube extra
[04:05:29] <pfred1> I mix in an aluminum pop can and you can feel it heating up
[04:05:35] <pfred1> like i tear the can in half
[04:05:40] <pfred1> then mix in that
[04:05:53] <pfred1> some hot is good
[04:05:58] <Jymmm> yeah
[04:06:18] <Jymmm> It's just to re-enforce an ABS coupler
[04:06:38] <Jymmm> they are super thin
[04:06:48] <pfred1> yeah if the resin doesn't just stick to the plastic I can't imagine it not sticking if you scuff it
[04:07:18] <pfred1> I've seen fiberglass resin stick to waxed surfaces
[04:07:23] <Jymmm> easy enoug to just grab some 80grit and have at it
[04:07:29] <Jymmm> heh
[04:07:56] <pfred1> if nothing else the stuff is sticky
[04:08:34] <Jymmm> can I brush on the resin?
[04:08:41] <pfred1> that is how I do it
[04:08:46] <Jymmm> k
[04:08:53] <pfred1> I use either a china or an acid brush
[04:09:05] <pfred1> depends how much glassing I'm doing
[04:09:11] <Jymmm> I guess I'll have to do it it two parts one for each half
[04:09:26] <Jymmm> turn it over, do the over side
[04:10:04] <pfred1> hmmm once you get that resin and glass on stuff I don't know best to figure out a way to do it all at once
[04:10:12] <pfred1> like suspend the work from a wire or something
[04:10:32] <Jymmm> or a small section of pipe
[04:10:43] <Jymmm> as a handle
[04:10:49] <pfred1> some way you can do it all glass is best in one piece
[04:10:55] <pfred1> like the fibers
[04:11:07] <Jymmm> ah, so it doesn't drip all that much?
[04:11:07] <pfred1> mat or weave?
[04:11:14] <pfred1> well it is gonna drip
[04:11:21] <Jymmm> haven't bought anything yet
[04:11:36] <pfred1> well you have fiberglassed before haven't you?
[04:11:43] <Jymmm> nope
[04:11:52] <pfred1> oh well it does take some getting used to
[04:12:09] <pfred1> the glass starts out real stiff but when you soak it it becomes moldable
[04:12:30] <Jymmm> Yeah, i figured. I'm mostly conserned about the finish. I dont need glass spikes
[04:12:38] <pfred1> you have to learn how to tamp the air out too you sort of pounce it with the brush
[04:12:46] <pfred1> well
[04:13:05] <Jymmm> I know you fold the edge under and press it down.
[04:13:09] <pfred1> it is hard to guarantee a smooth glass finish whout sanding after it sets up
[04:13:25] <pfred1> OK do this
[04:13:36] <pfred1> cut your glass pieces out and fit them dry
[04:13:48] <pfred1> use scissors to cut the glass
[04:14:17] <pfred1> I'm not going to lie once you get that resin going it gets pretty crazy
[04:15:05] <pfred1> because the glass itself gets pretty limp and wants to flow and stuff
[04:15:24] <Jymmm> k
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[04:15:33] <pfred1> and you're playing beat the clock for it setting up
[04:16:05] <pfred1> while you have hands all gooped up i mean I don't use gloves but you might want to
[04:16:19] <tjb1> fiberglass cloth is about impossible to mold to a compound surface
[04:16:25] <pfred1> when i say I get hands like sasquach I'm not kidding
[04:16:37] <Jymmm> heh
[04:16:40] <pfred1> yeah the mat is better
[04:16:59] <pfred1> you'd think the cloth would bat down better but it really doesn't
[04:17:23] <tjb1> if you are making a mold…wax 10 times after you think you put enough wax on :)
[04:17:37] <Jymmm> http://www.tapplastics.com/product/fiberglass/fiberglass_fabrics
[04:18:10] <pfred1> once the resin hits the mat it is all sort of like a fluid together
[04:18:34] <tjb1> mix your resin hot ;)
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[04:18:53] <pfred1> well I just figure I'll machine it after it sets up
[04:19:09] <pfred1> I don't get too hung up on what it is like before it hardens
[04:19:28] <tjb1> pfred1: Do you use cabasil?
[04:19:44] <Jymmm> Yeah, I just dont winat fiberglass fiber drifting in the air or on my skin
[04:19:45] <pfred1> I use bondo brand I think
[04:19:58] <pfred1> acetone takes it right off
[04:20:08] <tjb1> and acetone burns nicely too
[04:20:19] <Jymmm> tjb1: not me
[04:20:31] <pfred1> well yeah don't smoke while you're doing this no open flames
[04:20:39] <tjb1> I meant the skin
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[04:20:45] <pfred1> oh it doesn't burn me
[04:20:53] <pfred1> dries me out
[04:20:57] <Jymmm> acetone doens't burn my skin either.
[04:20:59] <tjb1> Maybe I put too much on...
[04:21:06] <Jymmm> I wash my hands it it
[04:21:09] <tjb1> Erm no it wasnt acetone, it was goof off
[04:21:12] <pfred1> nah i can soak in it heck girls use it to take off their nail polish
[04:21:16] <tjb1> and stain remover
[04:21:20] <pfred1> how bad can it be?
[04:21:21] <Jymmm> goof off is napatha
[04:21:27] <tjb1> Gel stain remover burns
[04:21:54] <tjb1> I didnt cover my arms when we primed our drywall…I had little white dots all over me
[04:21:58] <pfred1> acetone is highly flammable though
[04:22:08] <pfred1> stuff makes gasoline look like something you'd use to put a fire out
[04:22:20] <Jymmm> pfred1: Nuh Uh... Here let me shoe you.. POOF!
[04:23:09] <pfred1> protection is often the best cure but when I fiberglass i just figure I'm going to get the stuff on my hands
[04:23:31] <pfred1> I've tried to use gloves they just make it worse
[04:30:20] <pfred1> this is the middle of one glassing job I did
http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/38/201nq.jpg
[04:30:58] <pfred1> my holy truck
[04:35:11] <Jymmm> what year?
[04:35:27] <pfred1> 1983
[04:35:39] <Jymmm> really? looks MUCH older
[04:35:53] <pfred1> well it is an 83
[04:36:01] <pfred1> looked newer after I painted it
[04:36:12] <Jymmm> I had an 85 F150, it didn't look that old =)
[04:36:21] <Jymmm> no 84 F150
[04:36:51] <pfred1> you live in california don't you?
[04:37:01] <Jymmm> yeah, no road salt
[04:37:08] <pfred1> yes
[04:37:24] <pfred1> I love to go 4 wheeling in my yoda too
[04:37:44] <pfred1> i like to hit the roads before they get plowed or salted
[04:38:30] <pfred1> once it snowed 48 inches and I even drove through that
[04:38:38] <pfred1> I couldn't believe it it was up to the hood
[04:39:21] <Jymmm> lol
[04:40:38] <pfred1> I put some sweet michelin tires on that truck and it blows my mind how good it is in the snow
[04:40:56] <pfred1> I pass jeeps!
[04:41:31] <pfred1> like you're out on a sunny day
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[05:39:19] <tjb1> Here is a smexy video of my THC working
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRBCV_OhEoY
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[05:40:12] <pfred1> THC?
[05:40:46] <Jymmm> pfred1: pot, weed, maryjane
[05:40:52] <Jymmm> pfred1: (Torch Height Controller)
[05:40:59] <pfred1> Tetrahydrocannabinol
[05:41:03] <tjb1> second option
[05:41:21] <Jymmm> pfred1: exactly
[05:41:57] <pfred1> I knew a guy who made all kinds of crazy machines and he made the craziest trug paraphenalia you could ever imagine too
[05:42:08] <Jymmm> lol
[05:42:14] <pfred1> no for real
[05:42:25] <Jymmm> I believe you
[05:42:40] <Jymmm> I bet I've seen worse =)
[05:42:51] <pfred1> he made this one pipe called the distributor that was programmable
[05:42:53] <Jymmm> ligthtbulb crack pipe
[05:43:26] <pfred1> there was a gear with a magnet attached to it that would lift steel ball bearings out of seats
[05:43:37] <pfred1> it was quite involved
[05:43:47] <Jymmm> heh
[05:43:59] <pfred1> there were even LED lights at the ends of the hoses so people could know it was their turn
[05:44:30] <pfred1> it took him like a year to build
[05:44:33] <Jymmm> hahahaha
[05:46:10] <pfred1> when he hooked it up to refrigeration I mean he had this umbillical cord running through his house it looked liek an astronaut was lost or something
[05:46:45] <Jymmm> ever tell him to GET A LIFE?
[05:46:47] <pfred1> so I'd be very surprised if you've seen worse
[05:47:11] <Jymmm> I said worse, not creative =)
[05:47:21] <tjb1> As much as tv costs…how about they put decent tv on at night
[05:47:34] <pfred1> he is a retired multimillionaire
[05:47:37] <Jymmm> tjb1: PBS
[05:47:55] <pfred1> he made a fortune doing industrial controls and building machines
[05:48:13] <pfred1> he just liked to make stuff
[05:48:24] <Jymmm> that's cool
[05:48:27] <tjb1> dr wayne dyer…sounds like a hoot
[05:50:36] <tjb1> ewww pfred1 a hf multimeter
[05:51:03] <pfred1> tjb1 some of them are suprisingly accurate
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[05:51:11] <pfred1> some don't work at all
[05:51:23] <tjb1> play the lottery enough and youll win something
[05:51:57] <pfred1> hey for what they cost I can cut the banana jacks off the leads and I'm still ahead of the game
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[05:52:51] <tjb1> i like mine
[05:52:57] <pfred1> I've fried more than my fair share of expensive meters by now too
[05:53:29] <pfred1> so I hook the cheap ones up first
[05:53:48] <tjb1> lol
[05:54:47] <tjb1> I have this one -
http://easthillsinstruments.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/f/l/fluke-87-1.jpg
[05:55:25] <pfred1> flukes are nice don't leave it out in the cold though
[05:55:47] <pfred1> buddy of mine did that with his the LCD was never quite the same after that
[05:56:19] <tjb1> for the price that thing cost…fluke should fix it
[05:56:51] <pfred1> I never need that kind of accuracy
[05:57:00] <pfred1> that is what you're paying for with expensive meters
[05:57:12] <pfred1> well it is what you should be paying for
[05:57:15] <tjb1> I didnt want to keep buying them
[05:57:18] <tjb1> So I just got a good one
[05:57:31] <tjb1> I just need one of those amperage clamps
[05:57:34] <pfred1> good ones burn up just as quickly as cheap ones do
[05:58:12] <pfred1> I want a current probe for my scope
[05:58:24] <tjb1> I got a cheap scope too, havent mastered it yet
[05:58:34] <pfred1> I just don't want to pay a grand for it
[05:58:44] <tjb1> Cant remember the name of mine...
[05:58:51] <tjb1> Its those cheap ones that everyone firmware hacks
[05:58:52] <pfred1> mine is easy t oremember
[05:59:01] <pfred1> Tektronix
[05:59:33] <tjb1> rigol ds1052e
[05:59:35] <pfred1> I have a 2336 with the Y option
[06:00:03] <pfred1> let me tell you the Y option is the snizzle too
[06:00:13] <tjb1> I dunno what the Y option is
[06:00:15] <pfred1> that doubles the value of the instrument
[06:00:24] <pfred1> oh time cursors
[06:00:58] <tjb1> one day ill learn to use mine
[06:00:59] <pfred1> you can measure time in the wave
[06:01:45] <pfred1> I've used my scope as a characteristic curve tracer
[06:01:56] <pfred1> which if you know what that is is pretty cool
[06:02:14] <tjb1> Nopr
[06:02:16] <pfred1> it is about as advanced as scoping gets
[06:02:16] <tjb1> *Nope
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[06:02:52] <pfred1> you can do stuff like match transistors
[06:03:15] <pfred1> for a while I was on an audio amplfier kick
[06:03:20] <tjb1> can you download what you know about electronics to my head?
[06:03:50] <pfred1> I spent a lot of time messing with the stuff
[06:04:19] <tjb1> well I have to get to sleep
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[06:04:26] <tjb1> cya
[06:04:37] <pfred1> nite
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[06:39:29] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[07:53:17] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[09:28:40] <Jam628> does th
[09:31:30] <Jam628> I'm trying to set up Mesa 7i43 with steppers, but getting all the time joint 0 following error. FERROR = 0.005 and MIN_FERROR = 0.0005 (mm) by default with PnnConf but even if i set those values to 5 and 0.5 I have the same error.
[09:33:45] <Jam628> What BASE_PERIOD should be set for 7i43? In actual confog there is no such parameter now. Can this be the problem? The velocity and accel values I couldn't increase to the desired one, so the movements (ramps) are very long...
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[11:34:20] <cncbasher> jam628 : make min_ferror 0.5
[11:34:51] <cncbasher> jam628: and make your ferror 1.0 , base period is not used with 7i43
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[12:29:16] <Tom_itx> no base period on the mesa 7i43
[12:29:21] <Tom_itx> use the servo period
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[12:31:15] <Tom_itx> oh well he didn't stick around long enough
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[12:41:00] <cncbasher> he'll be back .. i'm not convinced thats the problem
[12:43:02] <Tom_itx> probably but he didn't hear either one of us
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[14:54:05] <pcw_home> Jam628 (should you read this later) usual cause of following error on Mesa Stepgens is that the stepgen maxaccel parameter is not set. This should be set to about 1.25 times the machine maxaccel.
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[15:13:35] <JT-Shop> ways look good but they put the rollers in wrong on the V way
[15:14:15] <archivist> they...I thought someone more local rebuilt said item recently :)
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[15:15:57] <Xabster> hi, my onboard gfx chip interferes with the latency as the site's guide says
[15:16:15] <Xabster> so now i need a pci express card just to avoid this and i'm considering Radeon HD 5450
[15:18:56] <pcw_home> which gfx chip?
[15:19:34] <Xabster> CGAX-5452LI
[15:20:47] <pcw_home> I mean which onboard graphic chip
[15:21:03] <JT-Shop> I assume it was the shop that used to own it... I just noticed at some point they had ordered a set of rollers from notes in the parts book
[15:21:21] <Xabster> pcw_home: why?
[15:21:48] <pcw_home> Because there are workarounds for some
[15:22:54] <pcw_home> because its typically not the hardware thats a problem, but rather the driver
[15:23:36] <Xabster> pcw_home, it's a G530 celeron and all i can find on the gfx chip is "Intel® HD Graphics"
[15:23:46] <Xabster> the CPU*
[15:25:25] <archivist> do you have any video cards lying around to try before you buy something
[15:25:31] <Xabster> no
[15:25:47] <Xabster> thats my problem
[15:25:52] <pcw_home> Hm I wonder if that uses the same driver that the Atoms use
[15:26:21] <Xabster> "Graphics card capable of at least 1024x768 resolution, which is not using the NVidia or ATI fglrx proprietary drivers, and
[15:26:21] <Xabster> which is not an onboard video chipset that shares main memory with the CPU"
[15:26:37] <Xabster> my onboard does that
[15:26:38] <pcw_home> Oh thats obsolete
[15:26:45] <Xabster> oh really?
[15:26:50] <pcw_home> Yes
[15:27:51] <Xabster> do you have any suggestions on what i can do? my idle-latency is about 11 uS and if i view youtube video it goes to twice that
[15:27:55] <Xabster> about 24 uS
[15:27:58] <pcw_home> Atoms and AMD fusion have onboard graphics and are OK and the Intel HD graphics should be fine
[15:28:10] <pcw_home> live with it
[15:28:53] <cradek> but 24 is a fine number
[15:29:05] <pcw_home> you may be able to improve latency with the isolcpus trick
[15:29:08] <Xabster> that's only 25k hz
[15:31:42] <pcw_home> well 1/24 uSec is 41 KHz and with 2x margin thats 20 KHz
[15:31:44] <pcw_home> which is 600 RPM for 1/10 ustep ratio so not bad
[15:32:55] <pcw_home> 1500 RPM with 1/4 stepping which is very likely faster than the step motors will go
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[15:50:35] <Loetmichel> hmmm... depends... on the stepper driver voltage ;-)
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[16:06:07] <mazafaka> I did it! Not sex with female twins yet, but already something like in GTA San Andreas!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4WlwKSCkaA Next time I will have stolen a car. :)
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[16:09:27] <DJ9DJ> hmm, chasing your dog?
[16:09:35] <DJ9DJ> at least the first seconds ;)
[16:09:43] <Xabster> but i want it better, pcw_home :)
[16:10:36] <archivist> define better
[16:14:27] <mazafaka> DJ9DJ: just rode to garage, and took my dogs
[16:14:46] <DJ9DJ> :)
[16:14:52] <Xabster> faster movement with higher microstepping
[16:15:02] <Xabster> it's about 5 cm per second with 600 rpm
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[16:17:21] <IchGuckLive> hi folks a reamer for a Stepper is this available in the USA 6.35mm
[16:18:03] <IchGuckLive> or what is the shaft of a ordanary Nema 23 1/8 7/16
[16:18:31] <awallin> 6.35 mm does sound familiar...
[16:18:46] <skunkworks> Xabster: you do know microstepping doesn't help with accuracy?
[16:19:10] <Xabster> i dont know a whole lot about anything, no
[16:19:14] <Xabster> what does it do then?
[16:19:48] <skunkworks> manly gets rid of resonance issues at certain rpms of the stepper.
[16:19:56] <archivist> 6.35 is 1/4"
[16:20:05] <skunkworks> but you will not get any better accuracy than about 1/2 step.
[16:20:43] <Xabster> so, let's say i experience resonance then I *could* change to a different microstep to avoid it?
[16:20:52] <Xabster> but that's about it?
[16:21:02] <skunkworks> yes - raising the microstep will usually help
[16:21:35] <IchGuckLive> archivist: Thanks
[16:21:54] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: Half step 400/rev is the best to go
[16:23:01] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: what are you going to drive
[16:23:17] <IchGuckLive> Laser Mill lathe plasma ...
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[16:24:50] <Xabster> parts for a RC car
[16:24:54] <Xabster> or cars, rather
[16:25:14] <Xabster> but it's a hobby project and we're 2 on it and we're both trying to get our respective "tasks" to perform optimal
[16:25:19] <Xabster> mine is the software and PC setup
[16:25:31] <Xabster> and some more, and he's building the machine more or less from scrathc
[16:25:33] <Xabster> scratch
[16:25:43] <Xabster> unfair workload? :D
[16:25:46] <skunkworks> neat!
[16:25:48] <IchGuckLive> where are you from Europ USA ...
[16:26:06] <Xabster> europe, denmark
[16:27:24] <Xabster> do you think a non-onboard GFX card would solve some of the latency?
[16:27:31] <Xabster> since idle latency is about 12 uS
[16:27:39] <Xabster> and if i view a youtube video it's 25 uS
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[16:30:08] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: with 12000 you are well over 350 inch per minite
[16:30:48] <Xabster> but 12000 ns is only when the PC is idle
[16:30:57] <Xabster> viewing GFX stuff increases latency
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[16:33:12] <IchGuckLive> up to 50k you are also good on hobbyist
[16:33:28] <IchGuckLive> as your mill will not need to go that fast
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[16:34:11] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: im in germany DID you check for SMI so the latecy jumps on this PC issue
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[16:34:51] <Xabster> sorry what?
[16:35:36] <IchGuckLive> the latecy jumps high on pulses 20-30sec
[16:35:56] <IchGuckLive> Reset it and see
[16:35:57] <Xabster> what is SMI ?
[16:37:31] <IchGuckLive> a PC safty behavier somthing like a Watchdog
[16:38:01] <IchGuckLive> Xabster:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?FixingSMIIssues
[16:39:34] <Xabster> i see, but those numbers don't quite match my problem
[16:39:45] <Xabster> SMI is a real-time killer and to avoid latencies of several 100 microseconds up to a few milliseconds, you need to disable them
[16:39:51] <Xabster> i'm not close to 100 uS really
[16:40:36] <skunkworks> Xabster: a plugged in video may help
[16:40:48] <IchGuckLive> no it happens every whatabout secondes so reset your latesy and see if it is happening
[16:40:59] <Xabster> hmm
[16:41:11] <Xabster> well, my friend on skype just rushed to the store to get a pci gfx card
[16:41:17] <Xabster> he's got 20 min to get there =)
[16:41:45] <Xabster> if that doesn't help we'll take a look at the SMI thing
[16:41:49] <IchGuckLive> i woudt check first if a standard fix cand get you to <50K
[16:42:30] <IchGuckLive> The SMI interrupt usually is very periodic so check
[16:42:45] <Xabster> i'm not 100% sure how to check this stuff
[16:42:53] <IchGuckLive> reset laitency wait if it jumps reset again
[16:42:56] <Xabster> do you mean to look at the max latency?
[16:43:22] <IchGuckLive> just start your latency script in the CNC folder
[16:43:32] <IchGuckLive> yes
[16:43:55] <IchGuckLive> look at the max latency rset it when it goes high
[16:44:17] <IchGuckLive> lok again if it jumps up maybe 12k -> 80k
[16:44:31] <IchGuckLive> reset again and look
[16:44:56] <IchGuckLive> if this happens at maybe periodic its smi
[16:45:12] <IchGuckLive> im off By till 7pm Berlin time
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[16:45:20] <Xabster> oki
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[17:23:52] <tjb1> Anyone use DSLRs in here?
[17:24:58] <awallin> hm yes, why?
[17:26:38] <tjb1> Im looking at getting one, my phone does horrible video. Canon Rebel T3 looks to be good price
[17:26:56] <tjb1> $375 refurbished
[17:27:51] <awallin> the big money will go into lenses if you get hooked
[17:28:18] <awallin> they have different model-numbers in europe... 1000D or 1100D might be the base model now
[17:29:29] <awallin> now they are listing the 6D for preorder also, interesting..
[17:29:38] <tjb1> Im not looking to go pro or anything just a good one that will last
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[17:30:52] <awallin> all the cheaper models are fairly similar, you have to jump to 7D to get a bit of pro-feel into the body (metal frame etc)
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[17:31:13] <awallin> or maybe 60D
[17:31:59] <tjb1> Doesnt even have to be canon…any recommendations in the $300-$400 range that includes at least 1 lense
[17:32:57] <awallin> go with canon or nikon, there are so many more lenses for those
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[17:45:50] <alex_joni> I settled for canon
[17:46:04] <alex_joni> but you can also grab a sony (less lenses available, but stabilisation in the body)
[17:46:28] <alex_joni> they had a 49% off for the 60D the other day over here
[17:46:46] <alex_joni> that would have been nice to catch ;).. but I already had one
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[18:14:43] <IchGuckLive> Hi all
[18:14:58] <IchGuckLive> Fog all over the Freeway
[18:15:47] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: all clear on latency
[18:16:07] <Xabster> we installed new GFX card and that solved the latency
[18:16:09] <Xabster> yay
[18:16:19] <Xabster> but now youtube videos are played at 30x speed or something
[18:16:22] <Xabster> ridiculously fast
[18:16:33] <Xabster> we formatted and reinstalled, same problem
[18:16:37] <Connor> jdh: You around ?
[18:17:24] <IchGuckLive> Xabster: its on the realtime kernel did you check on the SMI
[18:17:33] <Xabster> no i didn't check SMI
[18:17:47] <IchGuckLive> is 10.04 on the system
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[18:52:20] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: died you see the sun today
[18:53:29] <archivist> you cannot see the sun if you died
[18:53:47] <IchGuckLive> O.O B)
[18:55:59] <awallin> just saw this on the fi forum. the 1:1 5th axis coupling sounds weak. what do you guys think?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CNC-Rotary-Axis-4th-5th-Axis-CNC-Rotary-Table-/261118755481?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3ccbe40299
[18:56:25] <syyl_ws> the whole thing looks weak Oo
[18:56:34] <syyl_ws> there is no gearing in it?
[18:56:36] <syyl_ws> just belt?
[18:56:58] <awallin> I think so
[18:57:13] <awallin> don't take out the 100mm face mill with that one :)
[18:58:14] <archivist> and one cannot be sure of being on centre
[18:58:51] <archivist> better off with a couple of vertex rotaries and an angle plate
[19:00:50] <IchGuckLive> for some folks it might work he did the 4th 5th axis but not for real milling
[19:04:35] <pcw_home> 5th axis is direct, you could spin it with your little finger
[19:05:06] <IchGuckLive> b)
[19:05:07] <awallin> yeah that's what I feared... :)
[19:05:14] <archivist> only use would be foam and wax
[19:05:24] <IchGuckLive> no foam
[19:05:29] <IchGuckLive> i must know
[19:05:47] <IchGuckLive> you might be impressed on the foam milling foarce
[19:05:58] <archivist> I might not
[19:06:51] <IchGuckLive> Im off By till tomorow :D
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[19:09:18] <awallin> pcw_home: with SPI, does 2 chip-select lines means you can have 2 devices or 4? or more?
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[19:14:12] <pcw_home> 2 CS bits will give 2 devices (but 3 bits could give you 4: 2 select bits and one frame signal)
[19:14:31] <pcw_home> (and a 1/4 decoder)
[19:16:45] <awallin> hm, ok. the raspberry pi seems to have 2 cs bits. then it has i2c also but I guess that is slower.
[19:17:57] <pcw_home> You can use GPIO bits to expand the SPI channels
[19:18:15] <awallin> as extra CS bits?
[19:18:49] <pcw_home> basically you need a frame signal and a decoder enabled by frame (no just plain old GPIO bits)
[19:20:12] <awallin> for raspberry pi, having HAL + some simple GUI (gladevcp) and a driver for SPI and the GPIO would be nice. would enable all kinds of tinkering..
[19:20:35] <pcw_home> Yeah the SPI is probably fairly fast
[19:21:49] <awallin> 3 or 4 or maybe more SPI-devices, and real-time with 1ms thread would already be nice
[19:21:57] <pcw_home> i2c is dismal speed wise
[19:25:18] <pcw_home> Yeah HAL is a nice tool for combined measurement and control without ~= text Labview
[19:25:58] <pcw_home> without coding I mean
[19:27:12] <mevon> hi everyone
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[19:29:01] <mevon> I have troubles with the managment of home switches, but I have no home switches, for some reason the machine always resets on the first move I ask
[19:29:32] <mevon> I need help on the homing too, for some reason to start a task you need to be at home position?
[19:31:03] <mevon> do I need debouncing on my virtual/software home?
[19:32:17] <andypugh> mevon: Read the INI setup page, especially NO_FORCE_HOMING
[19:32:37] <andypugh> And just don't connect the home switches in your HAL
[19:32:42] <mevon> Ill check that ty andypugh
[19:33:53] <mevon> andypugh, do you recommand a home-min combination?
[19:34:05] <andypugh> It's what I use.
[19:34:34] <andypugh> But I would make sure your machine is going to work _at_all_ before bothering with them
[19:39:20] <cradek> what do you mean by "the machine ... resets"
[19:41:01] <mevon> andypugh, oh its working now
[19:41:19] <mevon> cradek, have to press f1+f2 to put it online again
[19:41:29] <mevon> how do you call that?
[19:42:47] <pcw_home> a fault?
[19:43:52] <andypugh> It seems to toggle the limits whenever it starts up.
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[19:45:42] <mevon> well its impossible, and its mainly linuxcnc based actings because unless I sent the msg, nothing changes, I sure I dont sent a switch toggle anytime nothing is happening
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[19:46:22] <mevon> maybe because my homing is not disabled
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[19:48:49] <cradek> I have not seen this behavior. maybe you should tell us a lot more about what you have set up and something will ring a bell.
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[19:51:45] <mevon> I get a "cannot un home while moving" error
[19:52:03] <mevon> on the z axis
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[19:55:18] <mevon> is it better to have a home switch or a min-limit switch?
[19:56:16] <andypugh> Both. But they can be the same switch.
[19:56:28] <mevon> so combined is the best
[19:57:33] <andypugh> combined it easiest, with limited pins. Separate is best, then you can have the home switch somewhere convenient (like with the vice under the spindle)
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[19:59:30] <mevon> lets say I put a home sw like you described, is it toggled or active on one precise position? Im sry I have lots of questions I just want to learn all I can
[20:00:53] <andypugh> Ideally a centrally-placed home switch is on for one half of travel and off for the other (so might be operated by a cam-plate). Otherwise the machine can't tell which way to go to find home.
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[20:00:59] <mevon> because Im guessing, mechanically it would be rather odd to use a tact sw to do the job
[20:01:18] <andypugh> This is why home switches are normally at one end of travel, and outside the normal range.
[20:01:24] <mevon> ok :/ thks for the info
[20:01:34] <mevon> outside you say?
[20:01:43] <andypugh> I wouldn't want to use a physical switch that way, but a prox or opto would be fine.
[20:01:52] <mevon> so I had it all wrong
[20:02:59] <mevon> my home is 0.0, my min is -0.1 and max is 6 or 8 or 1.5
[20:03:15] <mevon> only z axis min is -0.5
[20:03:17] <mevon> inches
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[20:06:51] <tjb1> Your z negative is only .5?
[20:06:57] <andypugh> The home switch doesn't have to be at the home position. In fact typically it is HOME_OFFSET from the home position.
[20:07:56] <mevon> here is my .ini
http://pastebin.com/B83ts6an
[20:08:15] <mevon> tjb1, yeah :S
[20:08:19] <mevon> idk :(
[20:08:34] <mevon> figured it was the best for pcb milling
[20:08:43] <mevon> its a mantis
[20:09:02] <tjb1> Your ini says -.25 and 1.5
[20:09:41] <mevon> seems I havent changed it yet but what do I dont see that makes it a problem here?
[20:10:10] <mevon> i kept it safe for now
[20:10:43] <tjb1> Do you home your z axis at max height or close to it?
[20:10:58] <mevon> that was my goal
[20:11:30] <mevon> makes it easier for tool change
[20:11:49] <mevon> though Ive set a tool_change position to 0 0 1
[20:12:11] <tjb1> Im not sure since my homing doesnt work yet but shouldn't your min be greater since Z is working in a negative direction from the home position?
[20:12:30] <mevon> makes sens :P
[20:13:30] <mevon> but I made that so the top of my material is always 0
[20:13:52] <mevon> when the tool touches the mat, thats my z=0
[20:14:43] <tjb1> but that isnt home
[20:15:02] <mevon> well I wanted it to be a software home
[20:15:22] <mevon> i mean for all that I know it could be home
[20:15:33] <mevon> since i have a toolchange_pos
[20:16:04] <tjb1> Im not the best person to get advice from :P
[20:16:10] <tjb1> But I believe the home is get to g53
[20:16:11] <mevon> but like you said maybe its not the best choice
[20:16:17] <tjb1> touch offs are set to g54+
[20:16:35] <tjb1> andypugh: is that right?
[20:17:34] <andypugh> G53 refers to the machine coordinate system, that will correspond to the INI file numbers.
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[20:18:05] <andypugh> You don't work in that system though. (Unless you actively put a G53 before every single move)
[20:18:34] <tjb1> So home coordinates are set in g53?
[20:19:58] <andypugh> More G53 is set by home coordinates
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[20:21:19] <tjb1> and then software limits work off the g53 system?
[20:21:37] <tjb1> If you MDI g0 x0 y0, does that just default to g54?
[20:23:29] <mevon> send the wrong ini file :S I was using the wrong configs..... meh
[20:24:39] <andypugh> tjb1: Yes, soft limits sort-of live in G53. I think that you start up in the same working CS as you last shut down in. I think it is sticky.
[20:24:48] <mevon> the best way to troubleshoot them sw is with show HAL config, or Hal meter?
[20:25:06] <tjb1> I know if I home, it doesnt reset the coordinates in the display
[20:25:19] <tjb1> only a touch off does and even then sometimes that doesnt work if I forget to remove G92 :P
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[20:25:47] <mevon> tjb1, how do you set touchoffs?
[20:25:50] <tjb1> Can you apply codes to happen when linuxcnc starts or make it just reset?
[20:25:59] <tjb1> beside the home button
[20:26:03] <andypugh> mevon: Whichever works best. Halscope is handy too.
[20:26:35] <mevon> ahhh tjb1 now I know what that is ty
[20:26:52] <tjb1> the "End" key does that
[20:28:05] <mevon> much appreciated
[20:29:19] <tjb1> andypugh: Can it be made to reset everything on restart?
[20:31:19] <andypugh> tjb1: Yes, RS274NGC_STARTUP_CODE
http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#sub:[RS274NGC]-section
[20:31:36] <tjb1> That will even run when it wont allow a G92.1 without homing?
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[20:37:45] <gmouer> PCW around to peek at a servo runing screenshot?
[20:41:22] <pcw_home> I'm off but will be back in an hour or so
[20:41:58] <gmouer> great, thanks, could really use your help analyzing a halscope plot
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[20:46:01] <gmouer> anybody: what is that website used for posting screenshots here on irc? Need to get one ready to post
[20:46:15] <JT-Shop> imagebin.ca
[20:46:26] <JT-Shop> no .org
[20:46:32] <gmouer> thanks John !
[20:46:42] <JT-Shop> yw
[20:47:15] <gmouer> servo tune driving me bonkers, need to get help
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[20:55:22] <mevon> how can I reset the axis to the 0 0 0 position?
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[20:55:48] <gmouer> main menu under machine, zero the coordinate system
[20:57:22] <mevon> ok nice thaks
[20:57:27] <gmouer> sure
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[21:01:47] <mevon> trying to reprogram the arduino while linuxcnc is running is bad
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[21:05:53] <mevon> what is SCALE used for in the .ini
[21:06:32] <gmouer> scale can be used for several things, it is basically like a multiplier used to scale a value
[21:06:33] <andypugh> steps per inch
[21:07:34] <mevon> as in INPUT_SCALE in the [AXIS x] sections
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[21:09:40] <gmouer> assuming you have encoders, its the encoder resolution in quadrature per inch... andy correct me if I am wrong please
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[21:30:16] <gmouer> andypugh: got time to peek at a halscope servo plot and comment?
[21:31:01] <andypugh> Not right now, sorry, dinner just happened. (and I am actually no expert)
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[21:31:25] <gmouer> no problem, enjoy dinner! your a lot more expert than me
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[22:00:58] <tjb1> If I did "G10 L2 P0 X0.0 Y0.0 Z0.0" would that reset all axis to 0 upon startup if in the RS272 startup code
[22:02:38] <tjb1> I cant understand the difference between G10 L2 and L20
[22:08:59] <gmouer> PCW: you around? could use help with a halscope servo plot
[22:09:29] <cradek> gmouer: since others could probably help, instead of asking for a certain person, you should always just ask your question.
[22:09:56] <gmouer> ok, thanks! here is the plot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=717vb7kLKKk
[22:09:59] <JT-Shop> G10 L2 offsets the origin of the axes in the coordinate system specified to the value of the axis word.
[22:10:06] <JT-Shop> G10 L20 is similar to G10 L2 except that instead of setting the offset/entry to the given value, it is set to a calculated value that makes the current coordinates become the given value.
[22:10:27] <tjb1> I read that, dont understand the calculated part
[22:10:30] <gmouer> it is open loop, velocity loop in the drive, pos loop in linuxcnc, PID all zero'd only FF1 active
[22:11:12] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:11:20] <gmouer> my convern is those overshoots at the start and stop of motion, refuse to tune away, tried a diff brand servo amp and diff motor even, same result
[22:11:30] <JT-Shop> if you move to point X and say G10 L20 X0 then an offset is calculated to make the current location be X0
[22:11:48] <cradek> gmouer: that probably isn't the URL you intended
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[22:11:57] <tjb1> What would L2 do at the same position?
[22:12:00] <gmouer> oh oh your right !
[22:12:10] <JT-Shop> try it in the MDI window and see
[22:12:18] <tjb1> Not at home :)
[22:12:27] <gmouer> this one is better LOL
http://imagebin.org/236498
[22:12:36] <tjb1> G10 L2 P1 X0 Y0 Z0 (clear offsets for X,Y & Z axes in coordinate system 1)
[22:12:55] <cradek> gmouer: ok what's your question about it?
[22:13:01] <tjb1> So if L20 X0 sets the x to 0 and L2 X0 sets the x to 0…I dont get it
[22:13:18] <gmouer> the overshoot at the start and end of movement, it refuses to tune out
[22:13:42] <gmouer> when closed loop, it translates into following error the same way
[22:13:49] <cradek> gmouer: oh I see, you have overshoot with ff1 only.
[22:14:14] <gmouer> yes, and I tried a different brand servo drive and a diff motor, same results
[22:14:25] <gmouer> also the same results on my other axis, I am stumped
[22:14:37] <JT-Shop> G10 doesn't set X it sets an offset from the origin of X
[22:14:38] <cradek> when you say it refuses to tune out what do you mean? what have you tried?
[22:14:59] <PCW> Needs velocity loop tuned at drive
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[22:15:31] <gmouer> yes PCW, but I have tuned till blue in face, overshoot is unaffected
[22:15:51] <gmouer> open loop, drive adjustments do not effect that overshoot at all
[22:15:56] <cradek> you tried to tune the velocity loop? knobs or software on the amp?
[22:16:11] <gmouer> yes, even tried a different brand servo drive
[22:16:14] <gmouer> same results
[22:16:23] <tjb1> Ok so L2 sets the coordinates to that value, L20 sets an offset that will equal to the value you call…ex X-8.0 and you call X5.0 it sets an offset of X13.0?
[22:16:26] <gmouer> thats my problem
[22:16:26] <cradek> is this velocity loop a tach on the motor?
[22:16:37] <gmouer> no, its encoder derrived
[22:16:50] <cradek> encoder hooks directly to the amp?
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[22:17:50] <gmouer> yes, amc drive, also ran diff drive with emc generating a fake tach feedback for that other drive, same results, same results using real tach also
[22:18:16] <cradek> where is the encoder?
[22:18:23] <gmouer> on motor
[22:18:35] <cradek> did you check the set screw?
[22:18:38] <gmouer> x and z are diff brand motors, both do the same overshoot
[22:18:56] <cradek> ah ok
[22:19:10] <gmouer> yes, checked for mechanical "lag", putting force against cross slide has no effect on halscope trace
[22:19:21] <gmouer> I have a idea, but its a long shot
[22:19:37] <cradek> then your velocity gain is just too high. are you sure you're setting it right? distant memory tells me the amc amps set a gross gain with dip switches and fine gain with a pot...?
[22:19:41] <PCW> tuning the drives velocity loop has to change this
[22:19:57] <cradek> I agree with pcw
[22:20:21] <PCW> nothing much LinuxCNC can do about it
[22:20:41] <gmouer> the gain pot is 10 turns, 5 turns makes no diff, more gain will oscillate, less trace stays about the same
[22:20:45] <cradek> are you also 100% positive you have switches set correctly for encoder velocity feedback? check everything again
[22:20:47] <gmouer> always overshoot
[22:21:23] <PCW> Is this just FF1?
[22:21:27] <gmouer> yes, positive, I had identical problem with z axis, and that uses a real tach, also on the x with a diff drive
[22:22:02] <gmouer> I am wondering if the 7i77 has a very fast spike on its analog output and the various amps are trying to respond to it
[22:22:46] <PCW> still looks like drive tuning (you should be able to set the velocity gain low enougg that it lags considerably)
[22:23:09] <cradek> there are at least 3 switches that you should be experimenting with
[22:23:15] <PCW> 7I77 outputs are glitchfree (~100 usec risetime)
[22:23:16] <gmouer> I had gain backed down just about all the way with no effect to those overshoots
[22:23:24] <gmouer> on 2 diff brand amps
[22:23:41] <gmouer> I tried all the obvious things before I came here
[22:23:50] <cradek> current loop gain, current scaling, integrator capacitor
[22:24:02] <gmouer> x and z are diff motors too, z has a actual tach on its sem motor
[22:24:05] <cradek> gmouer: but we don't know what you think and don't think is obvious :-)
[22:24:31] <gmouer> gotta agree there cradek!
[22:25:03] <gmouer> after hours of tuning, over the weekend I tried the amc amp with direct encoder input, found the same behavior
[22:25:12] <JT-Shop> G10 L2 X2 changes the offset from the origin from what ever it was to 2, it does not set the current coordinates to anything
[22:25:39] <gmouer> all the tune adjustments on the amp behave as expected but with no effect on that overshoot at the beginning and end of movement
[22:26:12] <cradek> gmouer: perhaps you just can't accelerate that fast. if you zoom in to that rising edge we'd be able to see more
[22:26:27] <PCW> is it just tha you are exceeding the motors maxaccel?
[22:26:32] <PCW> ha
[22:26:36] <cradek> PCW: good grief
[22:26:49] <gmouer> ? if it was exceeding the motors accel, why would it overshoot?
[22:26:52] <cradek> PCW: the velocity loop does have an integrator
[22:27:09] <cradek> PCW: you can set it to one of two values :-/
[22:27:22] <cradek> gmouer: ^
[22:27:50] <cradek> gmouer: share a new plot with it zoomed in
[22:27:50] <gmouer> let me post a link to the drive being used
[22:28:15] <cradek> yeah, I'm going on a guess (B25A40)
[22:28:40] <PCW> Yes that would do it that looks like 10 ms to 15% of full speed so that very aggressive acceleration
[22:28:45] <gmouer> http://www.a-m-c.com/download/datasheet/be15a8.pdf
[22:28:57] <gmouer> good guess, its smaller brother
[22:29:15] <gmouer> running a dc brushed motor which it is spec'd to do
[22:29:56] <gmouer> as a note, the overshoot is directly proportional to the velocity requested
[22:30:13] <gmouer> the machine is 200 ipm, the plot was at 50ipm
[22:30:44] <PCW> I thin the accell is just way too high
[22:30:47] <gmouer> I varied accel in the ini file over a wide range but it did not seem to change the display much
[22:31:15] <gmouer> varied it from about 10 to 30
[22:31:24] <gmouer> inch units
[22:32:09] <tjb1> JT-Shop: L2 is moving machine coordinates then? g53
[22:32:10] <gmouer> I run the same motors on another lathe at 15 accel and it is moving much much more iron, this is a linear rail small machine, very easy to move
[22:32:18] <PCW> umm you trace shows cruise speed in 10 ms... thats not very realistic
[22:33:34] <cradek> zoom in zoom in
[22:34:04] <gmouer> I had accel up at one point, sort of simulating a battery for open loop
[22:34:49] <PCW> Well step inputs are good but cause trouble if you have any integral term
[22:35:21] <gmouer> being new, I am confused, it is actually going beyond the commanded speed, then slowing back down, it would seem to me that it is accelerating even more than requested. what am I missing?
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[22:35:33] <PCW> if the velocity loop has any integral term you need to limit the accel to something the machine can track
[22:36:01] <gmouer> this is open loop, P, I , D all at zero, only FF1 in effect
[22:36:13] <andypugh> gmouer: "Integral Windup"
[22:36:32] <andypugh> Integral Windup in the _velocity_ loop in the drive
[22:36:39] <gmouer> yes, I have seen that windup in the past, but I is at zero, open loop
[22:36:42] <PCW> if you enter a ramp faster than the drives velocity loop can track and the drive has any integral term on its internal velocity loop it will overshoot
[22:36:54] <cradek> no it's not. You can't set velocity loop I=0 on these drives
[22:36:57] <PCW> I in the drive
[22:36:59] <gmouer> ahhhhh in the drive !
[22:37:12] <gmouer> ok, PCW, now I am getting the picture
[22:37:31] <andypugh> cradek, run along and write us a finite-jerk tp, there's a good chap.
[22:37:42] <cradek> oh go fly a kite
[22:37:52] <PCW> jerk
[22:38:28] <gmouer> ok, so I in the drive is suspect, but there is no independent adjustments on the drive, just a overall gain pot
[22:38:43] <JT-Shop> tjb1: no
[22:39:11] <PCW> Well that means you need to tune with a velocity ramp the drive can follow (reduce accell)
[22:40:23] <gmouer> ok PCW, gottcha I will play with that theory on the machine and see what happens. I have learned a lot about servo behavior in the last few weeks, much from reading your posts on the forum
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[22:40:52] <PCW> so if you want to tune with a step you need to turn 'I' off in the drive
[22:41:12] <PCW> Ive just done it (too many times)
[22:41:27] <gmouer> don't think that can be done in the amc drive (short of a soldering iron)
[22:42:43] <gmouer> how do you turn the I off in a drive that does not have independent adjustments for pid? only a overall gain pot?
[22:43:05] <andypugh> Lower accel in LinuxCNC should give lower velocity ramp, should reduce the problem.
[22:43:23] <PCW> I would not bother, I would just reduce the accell
[22:43:28] <gmouer> ok
[22:43:38] <gmouer> you guys are fantastic teachers !
[22:44:04] <gmouer> thank God you don't charge LOL
[22:44:22] <andypugh> That's what you think :-)
[22:44:27] <tjb1> Ok JT-Shop, I think I got it…L2 moves the origin of the specified coordinate system, L20 sets the current coordinates to the numbers specified?
[22:44:35] <PCW> no guarantees...
[22:45:38] <gmouer> guess I am out to the garage for a few hours tuning tonight, armed with great info, thanks so much guys
[22:46:18] <andypugh> Some controllers zero the I term the instant you cross the setpoint.
[22:46:59] <gmouer> drives like the amc don't tell you much about the inner workings unfortunately
[22:47:23] <gmouer> and I am far too new at servos to tell by the symptoms
[22:47:54] <PCW> if you zoom into the leading edge of the step you should get a good idea of the drives acceleration capabilities
[22:48:46] <gmouer> I just never expected excessive accel would cause a overshoot in velocity, you set me straight though
[22:48:50] <JT-Shop> #5221 is the offset for the X axis in the G54 coordinate system
[22:49:37] <gmouer> I kind of assumed excessive accel would round off the corner as it came up to speed
[22:49:40] <JT-Shop> G10 L2 P1 X2.5 will change the value of #5221 to 2.5
[22:51:14] <JT-Shop> If your sitting at X10 in machine corrdinates and say G10 L20 P1 X2.5 it will change the value of #5221 to 7.5
[22:51:21] <gmouer> thanks again guys, hopefully the new info will allow me to get the fine tune done
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[22:52:10] <andypugh> gmouer: It would, generally, except that all the time there is a position error the I term keeps winding up in a (failed) attempt to corect it. Then when the error is the other side, it takes just as long to unwind it.
[22:54:08] <tjb1> JT-Shop: X-2.5?
[22:54:08] <gmouer> I didn't think the drive had a PID loop internal, just a single op-amp rather than a complex pid loop in play
[22:54:39] <PCW> Just PI I think
[22:55:11] <gmouer> now, I do recall reading about integration in the various drive docs I have been though,\
[22:55:58] <gmouer> the P is done with the op-amp and its gain pot, the I done with R/C components? is that the basic idea?
[22:56:08] <PCW> Probably
[22:57:11] <gmouer> the amc drive was just a experiment, the orig drives are servo-dynamics with the machine
[22:58:07] <gmouer> think I got it, the amp gain system is not a simple fixed gain amp, but they ususally have PI loops in play
[22:58:35] <PCW> so if you put a step velocity input, the integrator sees a huge error and ramps very quickly so overshoots
[22:59:18] <gmouer> ahha docs I have read don't mention that when describing the battery method
[23:01:02] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/236510
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[23:01:30] <tjb1> Lovely purple primer
[23:03:17] <JT-Shop> should be of interest to you
[23:03:46] <tjb1> Might be, what is it for
[23:03:56] <tjb1> water table input?
[23:04:05] <JT-Shop> it's a bulkhead elbow for the water tank
[23:04:17] <JT-Shop> water tank input/output
[23:04:21] <tjb1> Why arent you using steel? :P
[23:04:37] <JT-Shop> it doesn't glue well
[23:04:38] <tjb1> Mc Master has some nice weld in fittings for like $3 for 3/4 npt
[23:04:59] <JT-Shop> yes but they only have threads on one side... think about it
[23:05:22] <tjb1> weld into pan, screw pipe in?
[23:05:36] <JT-Shop> tank not pan
[23:05:40] <JT-Shop> tank under pan
[23:06:01] <tjb1> Here is the thcud that I used -
http://pastebin.com/widDGH3p
[23:06:26] <tjb1> What really gripes me is PVC and CPVC...
[23:07:20] <tjb1> I must go…driving home so I wont get there until probably 9pm est :)
[23:07:22] <tjb1> bye all
[23:07:30] -!- tjb1 has quit [Quit: tjb1]
[23:09:05] toastyde2th is now known as toastydeath
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[23:25:38] -!- ve7it [[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[23:25:46] <Jymmm> ve7it: yo
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[23:30:38] <ve7it> Jymmm, ho ho
[23:34:26] <Tom_itx> JT-Shop what did you end up with for a tank?
[23:34:33] <Tom_itx> beer kegs?
[23:38:44] <JT-Shop> a 40 gallon water heater
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[23:41:23] <JT-Shop> http://imagebin.org/236514
[23:44:11] <Tom_itx> is that goin under the table?
[23:44:17] <Jymmm> ve7it: you're alive?
[23:44:17] <JT-Shop> yea
[23:45:27] <ve7it> yup... trying to build a tig welder at the moment.... I always have to do things the hard way!
[23:45:36] <Tom_itx> did you epoxy your floor? that's entirely too clean
[23:45:58] <JT-Shop> no, just raw concrete... I do keep it clean
[23:47:20] * JT-Shop puts on his chef hat
[23:49:38] <andypugh> seems like about 4 too many chairs for a workshop
[23:50:07] <Jymmm> andypugh: those aren't chairs, those are saw horses
[23:50:14] <Tom_itx> it's for all the other kids to come and watch
[23:50:22] <andypugh> <Ponder>
[23:50:44] <andypugh> I intend to motorise my new dividing head.
[23:50:54] -!- pjm has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
[23:51:15] <andypugh> For compactness I am thinking of mounting the motor shaft rigidly in the worm gear.
[23:51:49] <andypugh> That saves the length of a coupling, and the motor flange can fit tight up against the body.
[23:52:29] <andypugh> Then, because that can't work just like that, I want to mount the motor on a torsionally rigid but axially/angularly complaint mount.
[23:54:02] <andypugh> This is pretty common for encoders, viz:
http://www.clrwtr.com/Images/Red-Lion-Controls/Red-Lion-ZOD-ZOH-Encoders.jpg
[23:54:24] <andypugh> Reckon it will work?
[23:54:54] <andypugh> (I could, alternatively, use a rose-joint torque-arm)
[23:56:26] <skunkworks> I have thought of using that for mounting servos/steppers.. I don't see why it wouldn't work..
[23:57:23] <andypugh> It makes things a lot shorter.
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[23:58:29] <skunkworks> yes
[23:59:51] <andypugh> (not to self, save before make before run)
