Back
[00:00:07] <andypugh> ds3: Transistors are fine for Fwd-Rev
[00:00:19] <ds3> andypugh: eh?
[00:00:32] <ds3> thinking of for/rev by swapping the polarity to the motor
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[00:00:41] <ds3> you'd need a H bridge, wouldn't you?
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[00:00:50] <andypugh> So, centre-off relay?
[00:00:55] <ds3> DPDT
[00:01:13] <ds3> the chipitself is easy enough to debug...
[00:01:18] <ds3> SOICs are nice like that
[00:01:22] <ds3> to deadbug I mean
[00:02:34] <ds3> andypugh: www.sherline.com/reverse.htm
[00:03:10] <andypugh> Anyway, What power is that Sherline spindle?
[00:03:19] <ds3> around 1/4hp
[00:03:37] * Loetmichel gets the cramps whenever one modifies such a DC drive that way
[00:03:59] <Loetmichel> i dont like power PWM to a motor get switched.
[00:04:30] <Loetmichel> tends to burn the switch contacts AND burn the transostors in the control
[00:04:30] <andypugh> I know you _think_ you only want 125W, but as someone else said, nobody has _ever_ complained of too much spindle power.
[00:04:53] <Valen> whoever said that was awesome
[00:05:09] <Loetmichel> ds3: the 800W 3pha watercollend can be EASILY stopped with a 1/2" mill bit
[00:05:10] <Valen> 125w crap thats less than a dremel\
[00:05:13] <andypugh> Too much noise, too much vibration, yes.
[00:05:16] <ds3> I have a 1/4hp spindle right now
[00:05:30] <Loetmichel> so i wont like a 120W spindle on a mill :-)
[00:05:33] <ds3> Loetmichel: I've stopped a 3/4" bit with a 2hp spindle before
[00:05:50] <ds3> note - my spindle can only do 1/4" cutters anyways
[00:05:50] <Loetmichel> thats what i meant
[00:05:51] <Tom_itx> andypugh i've used seeed in the past as well
[00:06:29] <Tom_itx> how big is the board?
[00:06:39] * Loetmichel also fritcion-welded a TC 1/8" bit to the vice accidentally ;)
[00:06:41] <andypugh> My 2hp spindle at lowest speed (47 rpm) is probably capable of hauling in the moon. I have no idea what that speed range is for.
[00:06:45] <Tom_itx> laen does $5/sq in for prototypes
[00:07:07] <Loetmichel> andypugh: threading?
[00:07:14] <andypugh> Tom_itx: This would be about 1"2
[00:07:15] <ds3> andypugh: for those 20diameter cutters in tool steel ;)
[00:07:19] <ds3> 20"
[00:07:36] <andypugh> Loetmichel: It's a mill
[00:07:37] <Valen> doing weird stuff
[00:07:52] <JT-Shop> http://s307.beta.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/CONTINUATION%20OF%20MAIN%20ALBUM1/SAWMILLDRIVENBYWEBSTER.mp4.html
[00:07:58] <Valen> we use our lathe at that sort of speed to centrifugally cast things
[00:07:59] <JT-Shop> http://s307.beta.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/CONTINUATION%20OF%20MAIN%20ALBUM1/SAWMILLDRIVENBYATKINSON.mp4.html
[00:08:04] <andypugh> With the VFD I can use the spindle as a clock :-)
[00:09:06] <Loetmichel> s/thrading/tapping
[00:09:08] <Loetmichel> better?
[00:09:16] <ds3> you sure trust the clocks on your PC ;)
[00:09:26] <andypugh> 47 rpm. Not 47 rps..
[00:10:17] <ds3> looks like indeed the sherline can take a 0-10V signal
[00:10:45] <andypugh> JT-Shop:
http://social.ford.com/your-ideas/technologies/green/inverted-atkinson-cycle-in-ford-ecoboost-engines/
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[00:12:43] <Tom_itx> andypugh would that interface to an exhisting sherline control?
[00:13:00] <JT-Shop> cool
[00:13:21] <Tom_itx> guess i showed up late to the party :(
[00:13:40] <andypugh> Ford either have, or are about to have, an Atkinson engine in production.
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[00:14:16] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Would _what_ interface to a Sherline?
[00:14:26] <Tom_itx> your little circuit
[00:14:57] <ds3> apparently the sherline is a rebranded KBIC controller
[00:14:57] <andypugh> I can't see why not. It is basically a straight replacement for a potentiometer.
[00:15:07] <Tom_itx> nonstocked at mouser
[00:15:24] <ds3> if you're not doing a PCB, I might just dead bug something
[00:15:35] <ds3> and speghetti wire in a dpdt relay
[00:15:49] <andypugh> KBIC contollers float the pot at +DC bus V (120V) but that's OK with that opto.
[00:16:04] <ds3> yep, I like the isolation
[00:16:12] <Tom_itx> $3.63 @ dk
[00:16:25] <ds3> finding a decent isolator is was a stopper for using the sherline control
[00:16:37] <ds3> but motor + controls $230 w/o ebay is a plus
[00:16:45] <jdh> I looked for a DPDT relay for my spindle. Couldn't find one rated for inductive loads that high
[00:16:59] <jdh> well, not for reasonable $$
[00:17:39] <skunkworks> http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/54157-Ethernet-Motion-Controllers
[00:17:45] <ds3> if the spindle is required to be stopped, why would it need to be inductively rated?
[00:18:01] <andypugh> Tom_itx:
http://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=R1093788
[00:18:15] <Tom_itx> i found it at digikey
[00:18:41] <Tom_itx> 0 can ship immediately
[00:18:48] <andypugh> That's good, as I just noticed that Allied is zero-stock :-)
[00:19:09] <Tom_itx> 199 at dk
[00:19:16] <jdh> I was thinking about spindown time, but I wanted it for rigid tapping so I guess it would spin down almost instantly
[00:19:50] <ds3> don't rigid tapping require an encoder on there as well?
[00:19:56] <jdh> yes
[00:20:02] <Tom_itx> index
[00:20:15] <ds3> I'd love to rigid tap but Z axis is a bit limited
[00:20:26] <ds3> always thought of doing a stepper controlled spindle for tapping
[00:20:33] <Tom_itx> i'd like to try it on the sherline
[00:20:45] <ds3> Tom_itx: u have a sherline?
[00:20:49] <Tom_itx> yes
[00:21:07] <ds3> Tom_itx: do you have the spindle controlled via S and M03/M04 codes?
[00:21:33] <andypugh> skunkworks: PCW really ought to be able to clean up with the 7i80 + Mach.
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[00:23:09] <Tom_itx> ds3, i put a ss relay on it
[00:23:17] <Tom_itx> no reverse
[00:23:25] <ds3> on a different thing - how bad of an idea is a dual processor PIII-800MHz for EMC?
[00:23:32] <ds3> Tom_itx: so no speed control either?
[00:23:33] <Tom_itx> speed is manual via the pot
[00:23:41] <ds3> I see
[00:23:52] <Tom_itx> i'm hoping this would replace that pot
[00:24:06] <ds3> Ooooh
[00:24:20] <Tom_itx> then i need a reversing relay
[00:25:46] <Tom_itx> i haven't poked around in it yet
[00:26:50] <jdh> I paid like $50 for my pwm->V speed control from cnc4pc
[00:27:20] <Tom_itx> reverse?
[00:27:38] <jdh> has relay for reverse, but it is signal only
[00:28:53] <ds3> Tom_itx: are you using 1 or 2 parallel ports?
[00:31:16] <Tom_itx> 1 with a 7i43
[00:36:30] <andypugh> 7i43 is cool. Much under-rated in the 5i25 era
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[00:37:04] <Tom_itx> well i got it just before the 5i25 release or i may not have it now :)
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[00:38:33] <jdh> <me too>
[00:40:15] <andypugh> It's got a lot more pins that a 5i25
[00:40:43] <JT-Shop> say goodnight Gracie
[00:47:36] <skunkworks> andypugh: there have been work on the 5i20 - but nothing seems to be happining
[00:48:58] <andypugh> Do you mean 5i20?
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[00:55:12] <Tom_itx> andypugh what did you use that opto on?
[00:55:56] <andypugh> Hitachi VFD and 5i23.
[00:56:15] <Tom_itx> ceramic cap ok?
[00:56:34] <Tom_itx> that would be a pretty small board layout
[00:56:44] <andypugh> (though it is now redundant, as I bought a 7i49)
[00:57:10] <andypugh> Yes. Mine is on a 6x6 dot bit of vero board.
[00:57:12] <Tom_itx> what's the 49 do?
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[00:57:48] <andypugh> 7i49 is a 6 resolver / 6 analogue out board
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[02:34:29] <Jymmm> This REALLY does work at fixing christmas lights
http://www.lightkeeperpro.com/
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[02:37:15] <andypugh> So, how?
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[02:37:47] <Jymmm> andypugh: Click on "How it works"
[02:38:03] <Tom_itx> ok board drawn up
[02:38:54] <andypugh> Ah, OK, it properly shorts the failed bulbs.
[02:38:57] <Jymmm> It's saved me grief for two years now.
[02:39:46] <Jymmm> But, DO remove the batteries each year
[02:39:59] <andypugh> I save myself grief by not having any such lights.
[02:40:08] <Jymmm> Sucks to be you
[02:40:46] <Jymmm> or do you have LED now?
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[02:41:20] <andypugh> My family do christmas, I don't have to.
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[02:42:09] <Jymmm> andypugh: Ok, Eb.
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[02:49:53] <Tecan> whats uP*
[02:50:32] <Tecan> whats uP *<*
[02:50:37] <jdh> North
[02:54:13] <Jymmm> {rice of Tea in China
[02:54:15] <Jymmm> P
[02:55:43] <Tecan> heh you guys have too much time on your hands :)
[02:56:21] <Jymmm> µP
[02:56:42] <icee> Z
[02:56:57] <Jymmm> Ω
[02:57:25] <icee> S
[02:57:45] <Jymmm> ∞
[02:57:48] <Jymmm> π
[02:58:03] <icee> ℧
[02:58:16] <icee> mo' mho
[02:58:44] <Jymmm> icee: ¡ǝɯ ɹoɟ ןooɔ ooʇ ʇsnظ ǝɹɐ noʎ
[02:59:11] <icee> i'm just talking about mho/siemens
[02:59:21] <icee> because everyone like siemen
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[06:29:59] <automata_> hi
[06:37:22] <alex4nder> hello
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[07:58:32] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:31:23] <theorbtwo> Is it just me, or is ظ really horrible as an upside-down j?
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[08:55:01] <_abc_> Hello. Maybe I am just daft, but I can't locate power (Watt) rating for most (all) steppers I am looking at. What is the reason for this?
[08:55:31] <_abc_> F.ex. I find current ratings and ohms ratings, so I assume one can compute Ptot = 2 * I^2 * R
[08:55:36] <_abc_> 2 for two phases on
[08:55:52] <_abc_> Where I is Irms when chopped and R is Rphase coil resistance.
[08:56:18] <_abc_> Why don't makers give the real tolerated heat power on the unit? Such as is customary in all electronic parts and assemblies?
[08:57:29] <_abc_> For example, I get a puny 7.68W for 0.4A 24Ohm NEMA23 steppers using that calculation, yet the steppers get so hot they reek of plastic when run at that power level.
[08:58:12] <_abc_> Surely the makers have some better ideas on the heat load allowed on their motors? And certainly test this? I don't think the likes of Sanyo and so on leave such "details" for the customer to test (and cuss about).
[08:58:55] <_abc_> Then I find NEMA23 rated 165 Watts. Which is not reasonable without considerable forced cooling.
[08:59:38] zz_satyag is now known as satyag
[08:59:43] <_abc_> CAN one assume that such a motor is rated for P=2*I^2*R or not?
[09:00:24] <_abc_> F.ex. also for NEMA23 I get for a 3A motor with 2 ohm windings, 36W, which is sort of okay excepting for the heat issue.
[09:00:28] <_abc_> So which is which?
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[09:07:39] <_abc_> Everyone is zzz?
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[09:44:14] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:53:34] <mazafaka> Loetmichel: are you here? do you have several minutes to talk?
[11:54:15] <Loetmichel> yes and no, i am at work
[11:55:02] <mazafaka> I know HSS mill bits, but what are those VHM and others, what types of the alloy are popular nowadays?
[11:58:46] <Loetmichel> VHM= Tungsten carbide... "VollHartMetall" in german
[11:59:36] <Loetmichel> meands they are of TC in whole, no cutting tip of TC soldered to a HSS shaft
[11:59:39] <Loetmichel> means
[11:59:41] <TekniQue> isn't tungsten generally known by its elementary name, Wolfram, in german?
[11:59:50] <Loetmichel> true
[12:00:13] <Loetmichel> but "hartmetall" means only "strong metal"
[12:00:19] <Loetmichel> and is a synonyme for TC
[12:00:55] <Loetmichel> not for tungsten in general
[12:02:15] <Loetmichel> like "widia" drill bits . Thats a (r) from a german company meaning "wie diamant" (= like diamond).
[12:02:46] <Loetmichel> and names a serioes of Concrete drills with a TC plate soldered to a hhss shaft
[12:03:55] <Loetmichel> just "wollframkarbid" (TC) is nowhere to find in german TC mill/drillbit descriptions
[12:04:06] <Loetmichel> :-)
[12:07:03] <TekniQue> I found that out reading the labels on german tool packages
[12:07:42] <TekniQue> from Proxxon
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[12:09:08] <mazafaka> thanks
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[12:13:20] <mazafaka> So, there are HSS, and also tungsten carbide?
[12:20:44] <TekniQue> yes
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[12:23:50] <mazafaka> TekniQue: and are there the others?
[12:24:59] <mazafaka> TekniQue: What is the price of HSS end mill bit, and VHM mill bit of the same diameter, something less 30 mm or 1 inch?
[12:25:11] <mazafaka> something like 6 vs 60 Euros?
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[12:27:45] <TekniQue> I don't think there's a tenfold difference
[12:27:47] <Tom_itx> Ti
[12:27:52] <TekniQue> but there is a considerable price difference
[12:28:38] <Tom_itx> they're good until you wear thru the coating
[12:28:53] <Tom_itx> just use carbide
[12:30:32] <Tom_itx> as long as you don't hammer em to death they'll cut faster and wear longer
[12:31:36] <Tom_itx> if you need big cutters use inserts
[12:35:07] <syyl> even a good 6mm TC endmill costs about 50eur ;)
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[12:42:28] <Tom_itx> http://www.lakeshorecarbide.com/
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[13:03:39] <mazafaka> but how longer? This difference maybe useful for soft alloys, but for steel, I probably will need to sharpen it
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[13:14:05] <mazafaka> syyl syyl_ws what would be a price for d=25mm VHM end mill, and same of HSS? I'm searching on the Internet, but find various stores for mini drills
[13:15:41] <syyl_ws> last 20mm tc endmill we ordered was about 200bucks
[13:16:01] <syyl_ws> mitsubishi suitable for hard milling
[13:17:08] <syyl_ws> for a hss endmill i dont know
[13:17:14] <syyl_ws> dont have the catalogue right here
[13:17:22] <mazafaka> and 20mm HSS? something like 8 USD?
[13:17:38] <syyl_ws> naa
[13:17:43] <syyl_ws> i think about 50eur
[13:17:46] <mazafaka> maybe 40 USD
[13:17:46] <syyl_ws> coated
[13:18:06] <mazafaka> so, prices are something like that:
http://toolinghouse.com/hssendmills-2.aspx
[13:18:11] <mazafaka> it's ok
[13:21:53] <syyl_ws> but on big diameters we go mainly for inserts
[13:27:51] <mazafaka> yeah, starting from 40 mm or so
[13:28:14] <mazafaka> i will not use prices in my report, prices are so different
[13:28:31] <syyl_ws> we run em up from 20mm
[13:32:52] <mazafaka> how many inserts on the circumferens, 4?
[13:34:30] <mazafaka> 20mm end mill bit with inserts could make a game, especially if I would use only low inserts.
[13:37:17] <syyl_ws> 2 or three inserts
[13:37:31] <syyl_ws> but for finishing cuts still a endmill with 6 or more flutes
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[13:48:38] <MattyMatt> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Glanze-Through-Coolant-Indexable-Endmill-20-mm-Dia-/370472476804 looks like a safer investment
[13:50:48] <syyl> get one from a real tool dealer
[13:50:54] <syyl> if you want to use it professionaly
[13:51:16] <syyl> that provides you feeds and speeds for different materials
[13:51:25] <syyl> and support if you have problems
[13:51:28] <MattyMatt> archivist, that BP has got too rich for me £536 atm
[13:52:52] <MattyMatt> chronos are OK
[13:53:13] <MattyMatt> and surely the speeds and feeds depends on the inserts used?
[13:54:01] <syyl> and on the material used
[13:54:12] <syyl> and a good tool dealer will provide you with that data
[13:54:15] <MattyMatt> a glanze holder is a glanze holder, so you can shop around on price I guess
[13:54:57] <MattyMatt> you could go straight to the manufacturer for any data
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[14:33:05] <awallin> just posted this to the list..
http://www.anderswallin.net/2012/12/latency-histogram/
[14:34:39] <alex_joni> cool ;)
[14:34:55] <alex_joni> awallin: still around?
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[14:36:57] <pcw_home> looks like the bulk of the jitter is the 1 ms thread sampling something that takes a roughly fixed time of about 20 usec (display/disk/Ethernet?)
[14:40:26] <SWPadnos_> I noticed that kjournald caused a lot of jitter, every 5 seconds
[14:40:37] <awallin> that is log scale... but there are thes 'bumbps' at +/-10us
[14:40:43] <SWPadnos_> well, it would cause high latency every 5 seconds
[14:41:05] <awallin> I guess if one wanted to really know things one should correlate the high-jitter events with other system logs
[14:41:38] <SWPadnos_> I'd start by looking at how those jitter values are measured
[14:41:46] <SWPadnos_> and latency
[14:42:02] <SWPadnos_> which is too deep a subject to look at right now :)
[14:43:14] <pcw_home> Also there's the issue of when hardware I/O is actually done, which may have worse jitter
[14:43:23] <SWPadnos_> yep
[14:44:03] <SWPadnos_> I actually scoped it on a 5I22 at one point, on the machines that I got down to ~200-2000ns latency
[14:44:25] <pcw_home> (you can always read the CPU timer but I/O.PCI/PCIE/Memory access may be blocked)
[14:44:57] <SWPadnos_> (headless, no network, no journalling, most drivers unloaded, with a cpu hog running on the non-RT core)
[14:45:00] <pcw_home> without video?
[14:45:04] <SWPadnos_> yep
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[14:45:16] <SWPadnos_> and an ext2 filesystem mounted read-only
[14:45:26] <awallin> I guess the fpga-clock is fairly stable, so one could count and log the number of fpga clock-cycles between IO events ?
[14:45:32] <SWPadnos_> not so useful for the average CNC machine, but it worked for this application
[14:45:51] <SWPadnos_> oh hey pcw_home, I had a problem with one of the 5i22-1.5 I just bought
[14:46:07] <pcw_home> Yeah is suspect DMA to hardware is a main10-100 usec jitter source
[14:46:19] <SWPadnos_> The PCI memory regions weren't getting enumerated properly, so I couldn't program (or use) the board.
[14:46:37] <pcw_home> Thats odd
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[14:46:53] <SWPadnos_> Is there any way to fix that with the various PCI utilities you provide?
[14:47:18] <pcw_home> I would return it so it can be checked
[14:47:18] <SWPadnos_> yeah, lspci would show several regions, but with either 0 or no address assigned
[14:47:35] <SWPadnos_> ok, will do. should I contact Lily for an RMA?
[14:48:17] <pcw_home> Yes ocassionaly we have found bad EEPROMs, best solution is to replace as re-writing only works for a while
[14:48:22] <SWPadnos_> ah, ok
[14:48:30] <pcw_home> leakers
[14:48:34] <SWPadnos_> heh
[14:48:39] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: Merry Ho Ho!!!
[14:48:57] <SWPadnos_> happy Chanukkah to you as well
[14:49:02] <SWPadnos_> you just can't spell that in english
[14:49:08] <pcw_home> Yes ask lily for a RMA That we we get to check whats going on
[14:49:21] <Jymmm> SWPadnos: heh
[14:49:25] <SWPadnos_> ok, I should get to it this weekend or early next week
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[14:53:06] <awallin> hydraulic lathe, still for sale, anyone!?
http://www.go-dove.com/en/event-17167/lot-37/Magdeburg-D-30-Precision-Hydraulic-Single-Spindle-Collet-Lathe#!prettyPhoto
[14:53:21] <awallin> quote a big cabinet for the hydraulics :)
[14:53:25] <awallin> quite
[14:59:18] <awallin> someone commented on my latency-histogram: ..."bumps centered around a multiple of 10us. This would suggest that there is a 100kHz scheduling (or sampling) clock involved somewhere along the line"
[15:04:52] <pcw_home> the relatively constant region from -10 to 10 suggest a constant delay block being randomly sampled by the 1 ms thread
[15:06:49] <SWPadnos_> awallin: yep, that's the kind of thing I was thinking about when I said that I'd study how the timings are measured
[15:07:23] <SWPadnos_> if there are only -10 and +10 values (no 0 values), then it would be a 50 kHz clock
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[15:10:05] <SWPadnos_> gotta run, see you
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[15:18:42] <pcw_home> the symmetry is an artifact of using timing deltas rather than time after the hardware interrupt request so the fixed block delay is close to 10 usec
[15:23:08] <awallin> pcw_home: could you have a counter at 10MHz or some other high frequency on the FPGA and with e.g. a loopback wire from one IO pin to another count the number of clock-ticks when the IO pin is wiggled? That would be somewhat independent of the pc-timer and hardware
[15:24:02] <pcw_home> yes its doable without anything special
[15:24:39] <pcw_home> just use the stepgen, set in velocity mode, and read the 32 bit position register, voila
[15:25:17] <awallin> ok. those numbers could then be compared to what HAL thinkgs the timing looks like.
[15:25:44] <pcw_home> Yeah
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[15:28:21] <archivist_herron> I am not convinced the current latency test is accurate, hardware would be better imo
[15:30:09] <awallin> should be fairly straightforward to test with a mesa card..
[15:31:47] <archivist_herron> I looked at the latency test code a few months back and started recoding it, need more round tuits
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[15:38:19] <pcw_home> It would be nice if it had the option of reading a parallel port before recording the time
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[16:21:53] <kanzure> does anyone know someone who would be willing to decap the nintendo 3DS chip and do SEM imaging?
[16:30:55] <awallin> what would you hope to see in the SEM?
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[16:42:36] <archivist> kanzure, ##electronics ask azonenberg
[16:43:45] <kanzure> oh good point. i know azonenberg and it didn't occur to me.
[16:44:04] <kanzure> what's that other channel he hangs out in?
[16:44:13] <kanzure> ah #homecmos
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[17:51:36] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:52:10] <IchGuckLive> after yesterdays disaster Day today i got everything fixed and all is up and running
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[17:52:33] <IchGuckLive> DJ9DJ: B)
[17:54:21] <DJ9DJ> hi IchGuckLive
[17:54:25] <DJ9DJ> :)
[17:54:33] <IchGuckLive> :D ;-)
[17:55:10] <IchGuckLive> i replaced mos battery and emoved all Memory for a few houres
[17:55:28] <IchGuckLive> as Fujitsu suport gave me a tip
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[17:59:08] <pilla_> Hi! Can someone point me towards some sort of plugin that converts a CNC machine controlled by linuxCNC into a 2d scanner with a webcam?
[17:59:42] <awallin> pilla_: you would have to hack this together yourself I think
[18:00:03] <awallin> move the cnc-machine around, take pictures with the webcam, and stitch all the pictures together..
[18:00:27] <IchGuckLive> best is to go via pyPIL
[18:00:46] <IchGuckLive> if you can get a Crossfade ocular into your webcam
[18:00:59] <IchGuckLive> on BW pictures you can scan your part
[18:01:07] <IchGuckLive> 2D ofcause
[18:01:16] <IchGuckLive> no height only shape
[18:01:41] <IchGuckLive> with a Distance laser you can go 3D
[18:02:06] <IchGuckLive> and with the poin array via Blender3D remesh your part
[18:02:49] <IchGuckLive> this will give you then a 2.5D part XYZ
[18:03:12] <IchGuckLive> with a given waterline height
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[18:03:42] <pilla_> Lovely idea, but I don't really need 3D :)
[18:03:46] <IchGuckLive> pilla_: with pypil it is easy to grep corners
[18:05:10] <IchGuckLive> just analyse the center pixel or 2x2 pixel array if it gets Dark or what you say 0-255 hit the point into a array
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[18:11:13] <pilla_> ty
[18:11:23] <IchGuckLive> pilla_: if local_image.getpixel((x,y))[0] == 0: 0 is Black
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[18:16:28] <IchGuckLive> http://effbot.org/imagingbook/ http://www.pythonware.com/products/pil/ http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/index.htm
[18:16:40] <IchGuckLive> 3 links to the use of PIL
[18:17:06] <IchGuckLive> and here are the funktions
[18:17:12] <IchGuckLive> http://www.pythonware.com/library/pil/handbook/image.htm
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[18:23:53] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[18:24:48] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: Snow tomorrow as mutch as we can 'Schipp'
[18:25:17] <cpresser> pilla_: openCV might also be a good staring point.
[18:25:31] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: hmm?
[18:25:56] <Loetmichel> i have a "facility manager" who does that for me ;-)
[18:27:00] <Loetmichel> (one of the tenants here has a lowered rent but has to do these chores ;-)
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[18:28:11] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: he myed love it and is in bed now to shuffel as early the snowflakes fall O.O
[18:28:22] <Loetmichel> anyway i drive a car which can cope with 20 cm snow, despite it is a rear drive ;-)
[18:29:03] <IchGuckLive> no 20 at your location
[18:29:13] <Loetmichel> not even one cm right now
[18:29:23] <Loetmichel> tomorrw: we'll see ;-)
[18:29:29] <IchGuckLive> we got 5 and expect 30 to come
[18:30:24] <Loetmichel> I sometimes wonder how bad some ppl drive... especially in winter.
[18:30:40] <IchGuckLive> all tractors and snow moving viehicles are called to clear the AFB and special runway
[18:31:22] <IchGuckLive> they call the germa as the US may not get in early on snow
[18:31:24] <Loetmichel> i have a Opel Omega Caravan (1,7 ton rear drive, front motor)... and STILL had never a problem on german roads. not here in OF not in W where i was born
[18:32:25] <IchGuckLive> Frankfurt area is not as bad hit as Eifel and pfälzerwald
[18:33:23] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: i lived in Wuppteral some time ago. Like it says in its name: its a (narrow) Valley, with steep side walls
[18:33:42] <IchGuckLive> agree on that
[18:33:47] <Loetmichel> and i never had a proble to climb up the streets
[18:33:51] <IchGuckLive> its a nice place to live
[18:34:19] <Loetmichel> but have seen cars burning rubber on the street without going one cm ;-)
[18:34:26] <Loetmichel> ... as i drove across ;-)
[18:34:51] <IchGuckLive> it is good if you can drive across but if not you are also stock
[18:35:20] <IchGuckLive> no matter he has to pay the 60box for driving without proper wheels
[18:35:21] <Loetmichel> some 300kg steel plates in the back of the car, good winter tyres: all good ;-)
[18:35:35] <IchGuckLive> bad on gas
[18:36:49] <Loetmichel> not a problem, the car uses about 9 liters diesel per 100km, regardless of load ;-)
[18:37:15] <Loetmichel> the 300 kg are not much, the car weights 1,75 tons EMTPY :)
[18:37:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.spritmonitor.de/de/detailansicht/442560.html
[18:37:54] <IchGuckLive> im also on this value E320Tcdi
[18:39:46] <andypugh> I don't think I could live in Germany if you have to be up at 7am to clear the pavements when is snows.
[18:39:53] <Loetmichel> ( thats about 26mpg for our american friends ;-)
[18:40:10] <Loetmichel> andypugh: only one per home ;-)
[18:40:41] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: community bahavier
[18:40:46] <andypugh> Yeah, and I live by myself.
[18:41:08] <Loetmichel> and IIRC the pavement has to be "safe" from 06:00 to 22:00
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[18:41:22] <andypugh> And I got up at 0830 on tuesday to find a load of snow had fallen. Came as a complete surprise.
[18:41:23] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: wrong. Law!
[18:44:21] <L84Supper> we grew up with rear wheel drive cars in the US
[18:44:30] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: anyone who owns a house (or premises) adjacient to a pavement HAS to take care that between 06:00 or 07:00 and 22:00 there is NO danger of slipping
[18:44:39] <L84Supper> front wheel drive wasn't popular until the late 70's
[18:44:56] <Loetmichel> and no danger of Roof avalances, too, for that matter ;-)
[18:45:06] <L84Supper> snow was always fun driving
[18:46:06] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: i second that, but the german drivers seem to be unable to cope with it. mots buy 4wd or frond drive because of winter. ;-)
[18:46:15] <Loetmichel> s/ mots/most
[18:46:30] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: are you allowed to just coat the area with salt 10 cm deep all winter to avoid having to shovel snow?
[18:46:36] <Loetmichel> s/german/other german
[18:47:07] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: you have to make sure there is no danger of slipping.
[18:47:15] <L84Supper> Loetmichel: surprising since you have all that driving school, whereas here you can just show up and try to pass the test
[18:47:41] <L84Supper> that must be tough when there is freezing rain
[18:47:44] <Loetmichel> you CAN do that with gravel sand on a flattened snowbed
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[18:48:37] <Loetmichel> most citys here dont allow salt on priovate property OR oficcial grond, beside the autobahns and motorways
[18:51:06] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: and most younger germans woudlnt be allowed to drive a "normal" american truck, because the std drivers license inclides only cars up to 3,5 metric tons + 750kg one axle trailer
[18:51:08] <andypugh> Would have been a challenge this day:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-120206-freezing-switzerland-3p.photoblog900.jpg
[18:52:19] <Loetmichel> andypugh: hrhr, nice photo ;-)
[18:53:30] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: anything bigger: need a extended license for motorcycle or Truck and/or trailer drive
[18:53:43] <Loetmichel> which can be quite costly
[18:54:43] <Loetmichel> IIRC the truck drivers license (up to 40 tons) with 2 axle trailer costs about 12kEur at the moment
[18:55:13] <Loetmichel> because of the driving school hours that are mandatory to apply to the license
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[18:56:01] <L84Supper> when driving in Germany I could trust that the other drivers will stop at red lights, in the US not so much
[18:56:23] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: agree on that
[18:56:27] <L84Supper> the driving is pretty bad here, but not as bad as some other places
[18:56:54] <JT-Shop> in Italy aren't stop signs just a suggestion
[18:56:56] <IchGuckLive> Egypt is worse then india
[18:57:12] <L84Supper> I'm getting my drivers license in China next trip, it's sort of a free for all there as well
[18:57:24] <IchGuckLive> italyan love there car
[18:57:51] <andypugh> Hmm, if it snows while you are at work do you have to go home to clear the pavement outside your house?
[18:57:59] <L84Supper> i was surprised to see speed traps in Shanghai on the expressways, the cabs are immune it seems from speeding tickets
[18:58:15] <IchGuckLive> andypugh: you need to organise
[18:58:46] <andypugh> I think I prefer the "pedetrians have to fend for themselves" attitude in the UK.
[18:59:47] <IchGuckLive> in the USA it is cheeper to shoot the people that hurt it on your sidewalk then go to holpital
[19:00:01] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[19:00:33] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: you got the old 3 driver licence
[19:01:02] <Loetmichel> no
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[19:01:26] <IchGuckLive> i do
[19:01:51] <L84Supper> the written test in China has questions on the order of importance of what to do when in an accident
[19:01:57] * Spida made B according to 3 rules.
[19:02:08] <L84Supper> since you're pretty much guaranteed to be in one
[19:02:20] <Spida> L84Supper: (A) survive. (B) panick.
[19:02:26] <Spida> :-)
[19:02:49] <andypugh> I found driving in China to be fairly chaotic, except they were _really_ well behaved about traffic lights.
[19:02:50] <IchGuckLive> (c) RUN
[19:03:02] <Loetmichel> Spida: (C) hit the shit out of your opponent :-)
[19:03:26] <andypugh> And their traffic lights are pretty cool, they have count-down timers showing how long until the change.
[19:03:41] <IchGuckLive> yeah thats fun
[19:03:52] <IchGuckLive> not for the walking
[19:03:59] <L84Supper> andypugh: the direction of traffic is merely a suggestion, the red lights are about the same, it's pretty much whoever is bigger gets the right of way
[19:04:04] <IchGuckLive> all starts at 1
[19:04:21] <L84Supper> the audible timers are great
[19:04:25] <IchGuckLive> bu ntin the USA in Florida al with the Automatic shifting also start at once
[19:04:49] <andypugh> L84Supper: No, I found the traffic lights were extremely well obeyed. But almost nothing else was.
[19:05:02] <IchGuckLive> n the UK the traffic light is on the other side of the Road
[19:05:07] <L84Supper> andypugh: might have been the city you were in
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[19:05:15] <andypugh> Qindao
[19:05:21] <Loetmichel> andypugh: right car for china/US: a Tatra 813 ;-)
[19:05:35] <IchGuckLive> Volvo
[19:05:56] <IchGuckLive> or better a Karmac
[19:06:11] <Loetmichel> http://landscaper.de/db_0638.jpg
[19:06:16] <Loetmichel> this one ;-)
[19:06:45] <IchGuckLive> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFesc__j2M tatra
[19:07:23] <L84Supper> I drive a Land Cruiser in the US, mostly for the reliability
[19:07:30] <IchGuckLive> if there is no road ,lets do one
[19:07:38] <andypugh> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1172635/A-30-000-copycat-Rolls-Royce-It-China.html
[19:08:05] <IchGuckLive> most US people here drive a GMC
[19:08:16] <Loetmichel> IchGuckLive: s/do/MAKE ;-)
[19:08:51] <IchGuckLive> no tank get you a tatra 813
[19:11:09] <L84Supper> I just got tired of fixing cars with parts made of steel so soft you can drill it by hand
[19:11:38] <IchGuckLive> modern world tecnology
[19:12:30] <L84Supper> I repalced the head gasket on my '95 with 200K miles, I could not measure the piston wear, no lip in the cylinders
[19:13:06] <L84Supper> should be good for >500k more now
[19:14:25] <IchGuckLive> hit the snow
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/3181/dsc02334z.jpg
[19:15:34] <IchGuckLive> http://www.bootheeltractorparts.com/images/dismantled/eqft563-cs-385-2jpg.jpg bad at all
[19:16:43] <JT-Shop> that is very close to me :)
[19:17:01] <IchGuckLive> or some smaller ,-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPnD22i10Pk
[19:18:41] <L84Supper> A123 batteries is in bankruptcy court
[19:19:02] <L84Supper> great tech in the wrong hands
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[19:22:09] <L84Supper> that's interesting, many of the electric cars caught fire during Hurricane Sandy after the salt water hit the batteries
[19:25:15] <L84Supper> http://updates.jalopnik.com/post/34669789863/more-than-a-dozen-fisker-karma-hybrids-caught-fire-and
[19:29:04] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: ouch. someone hadnt made the batteries waterproof?
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[20:23:49] <tom3p> whats the accepted ettiquette? top or bottom quoting in emails
[20:30:24] <jdh> top if you are an MS Outlook corp type, inline or bottom with nicely trimmed quotations if you are a unix nerd
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[21:20:47] <mevon> happy to report that 3 axis can be moved simultaneously in my arduino over usb with minimal ferror at 1kHz
[21:21:58] <mevon> now I will add the switch managing tasks, all is working in ChibiOS
[21:22:21] <mevon> I will make a blog to present my work soon
[21:22:42] <mevon> thanks to everyone in here
[21:23:05] <tom3p> congratulations! is this with feedback? jogging or running gcode?
[21:24:29] <mevon> yes feedback is made every 5ms, could be faster
[21:25:05] <jdh> there is a bridgeport for $1200 a few miles from here :(
[21:25:45] <tom3p> mevon: does the encoder count = stepper ppr? and is it mechanically synchronized?
[21:27:19] <mevon> the cmd-pos is fed to the arduino everytime its updated, in terms of steps to reach, can be updated on the fly, and every 5ms the current position is sent back
[21:29:26] <mevon> the stepping task in the arduino is run every 1ms, steps or not if the step to reach is not met, all in a RTOS implementation of ChibiOS in the arduino
[21:30:08] <tom3p> is the new trajectory target sent from Hal? or did you re-program something in the planner?
[21:33:19] <mevon> nno straight from HAL and motion planner of linuxCNC
[21:33:36] <mevon> without linuxCNC my arduino is not much
[21:34:00] <mevon> though Im thinking of making a version witch interprets gcode
[21:34:36] <mevon> could have a SD slot and be autonomous
[21:35:47] <mevon> but would be restricted to maybe only movements gcodes like G0 G1 G2
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[21:39:36] <tom3p> have you forced it to miss a step and see the result ( maybe put a divide by 2 circuit on the step line )
[21:40:24] <tom3p> or pull the step line off during a short slow move
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[22:09:06] <L84Supper> mevon: which cpu are you using?
[22:11:03] <andypugh> In other news, I am a happy bunny, my Harrison Mill moved for the first time under CNC control for the first time just now. Only one axis (Z) and it's been an awfully long time coming, but it moves, and pretty nicely too.
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[22:12:26] <andypugh> I will get video tomorrow, I was pretty fozen through by the time I finished.
[22:13:36] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:13:37] <L84Supper> anyone know which version Arduino he is using?
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[22:16:31] <L84Supper> http://linux-sunxi.org/Cubieboard should handle LinuxCNC nicely as well as support a display
[22:16:47] <L84Supper> http://cubieboard.org/
[22:18:08] <L84Supper> http://olimex.wordpress.com/tag/a10/ this will havethe a10 + 2GB DDR3 if they ever get it finished
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[22:32:41] <tom3p> andypugh,
http://www.rileysmachineryandtooling.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/IMG_0531-298x400.jpg?
[22:33:07] <andypugh> Yes, that's what it looks like.
[22:33:58] <tom3p> nice
[22:39:51] <JT-Shop> what is the command to show the kernel?
[22:40:53] <JT-Shop> ah uname -r
[22:44:51] <andypugh> I think my Harrison must be up the top of the number of HAL pins league. Currently there is a 5i23, 7i44, 7i64, 3 x 8i20, 7i49 and 7i39 attached.
[22:45:10] <andypugh> Oh, I forgot the 7i43.
[22:45:17] <andypugh> No, sorry, 7i73.
[22:45:24] <tom3p> hominy pins is that?
[22:45:39] <andypugh> I would have to count. It's a lot.
[22:45:59] <tom3p> btw Dan Falck has published a book on FreeCad
[22:46:49] <tom3p> FreeCAD: Solid Modeling with the Power of Python
[22:47:30] <tom3p> sliptonic: and you have credits in the book :)
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[22:49:08] <tom3p> ??? " 9 new from $19.99 2 used from $42.46 "
[22:49:43] <tom3p> haha even a kindle edition
[22:52:32] <andypugh> 13W3 connectors are a perfect match for a 7i39. Same number of power pins, same number of data pins.
[22:52:43] <andypugh> Probably a bit expensive to fit to the board though.
[22:53:03] <andypugh> I am planning on using them for my extra axes.
[22:56:15] <tom3p> oooh the nasty DB with big power pins, pretty special
[22:59:34] <kwallace> I've seen those special DB connectors on monitors an SUN computers. One might find these from a surplus vendor.
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[23:02:21] <tom3p> you always wish you could seperate hiV-lov, hipower-lopower,ac-dc,hi-freq-lo-freq, but eventually the dang device brings the cable sets together :(
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[23:05:52] <kwallace> http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/D13W3S17B5GX3CLF/609-2819-ND/1090343
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[23:12:07] <andypugh> The sun monitor cables use co-axial inserts. I am using the 40A-rated power terminals. There are also fibre-optic, pneumatic and (I think) liquid options.
[23:12:29] <JT-Shop> what's the best way to recover from letting synaptic upgrade the OS?
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[23:24:17] <andypugh> JT-Shop: save the config directory to USB and then reinstall from the LiveCD?
[23:24:45] <JT-Shop> that was my first thought but didn't know if there was a less drastic way
[23:25:21] <JT-Shop> I don't know why that option is not turned off before the LiveCD is created...
[23:32:44] <PCW> andypugh: we've added a CRC disable flag to SSLBP to get around the 8i20 programming issue should have a working bitfile shortly
[23:33:07] <andypugh> OK, that sounds promising.
[23:33:27] <andypugh> I have got to the stage where more working 8i20s would be useful :-)
[23:34:09] <PCW> we had to add a stack to the d8 processor to make the code fit
[23:35:18] <PCW> we had about 3 instructions free and needed about 20
[23:40:42] <andypugh> I wonder how many other people are so constrained?
[23:41:18] <kwallace> andypugh: The Digikey connector in the link above looks like it has 40 Amp contacts.
[23:44:20] <andypugh> I am not sure that the pins are interchangeable on the PCB=mount versions
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[23:48:17] <kwallace> Is there any reason why clearance on each side of a G76 thread should be much different than the OD clearance? I'm thinking of setting the side clearance and the lead line clearance with the same variable.
[23:59:59] <JT-Shop> I wish I knew what you said...
