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[00:05:31] <andypugh> My Z axis tends to sit with 2A of motor current after an up-move and about 0A after a down-move. Should I be able to get it to nudge itself up and zero-out the current with a bit of I-gain?
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[00:11:54] <RyanS> So what would be the ultimate CNC fanboi's milling machine for the home workshop. If you were a multimillionaire?
[00:12:07] <icee> a hexapod
[00:12:35] <RyanS> That's a walking robot...
[00:13:06] <icee> http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x95xyw_okuma-pm-600v-hexapod-part-1_tech#.UME0lhLraVw
[00:13:17] <RyanS> You would probably want single phase power for residential?
[00:15:09] <andypugh> You are a multimillionaire, you have 3-phase
[00:16:12] <RyanS> Can you get three phase to any residential address or it depends on the infrastructure?
[00:16:14] <skunkworks> we have 3 phase... :)
[00:16:35] <skunkworks> If you have enough money - you can get three phase anywhere
[00:16:40] <RyanS> As in perhaps you can't get it in some neighbourhoods?
[00:16:46] <andypugh> These Brother ones are pretty cool, but a bit small for a millionaire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5aC5Kpvibc
[00:17:27] <icee> i just like the little epsons
[00:17:36] <icee> when i move to oregon and have my large shop i'm getting one
[00:18:17] <icee> er
[00:18:21] <icee> not epsons, brother threw me off um
[00:18:22] <icee> sharps
[00:18:23] <icee> there we go
[00:18:35] <RyanS> so the hexapod can pretty much get at any part of the work piece without having to reclamp?
[00:18:42] <icee> RyanS: not necessarily
[00:18:45] <icee> but it can approach from many angles
[00:18:50] <icee> and sculpt/surface/etc
[00:18:57] <icee> http://www.sharpcnc.com/vmc/SV2414.html
[00:19:00] <RyanS> Does it sacrifice rigidity?
[00:19:02] <icee> these can be had for ~$35k
[00:19:09] <icee> RyanS: not if done properly
[00:21:16] <RyanS> I was having a look at Haas office mills, they are like $20,000 more than the larger models..
[00:23:52] <RyanS> This looks like it could do a similar to that hexapod
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gmTPlNE-mU
[00:24:18] <cevad> http://www.flickr.com/photos/davecaswell/8250268385/ carved with my 8020 router.
[00:24:19] <icee> yes, but think about how much of your work volume it gives up etc
[00:24:41] <icee> it looks very.. sexy-gyrating-though
[00:24:47] <icee> i want to tuck a $20 into it
[00:25:46] <RyanS> Why would use up more room than hex?
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[00:26:33] <mhaberler> andypugh: in the UK, single phase is default?
[00:26:43] <andypugh> Yes
[00:26:47] <RyanS> it sounds like its pneumatic or something
[00:27:03] <RyanS> tsss...tsssss....tsss
[00:27:10] <mhaberler> so you pay extra for 3 phase supply?
[00:28:37] <RyanS> And they would probably have three-phase in industrial districts/parks factories etc, but why would there be three-phase at residential areas?
[00:29:44] <icee> it's sometimes convenient for apartments etc to have 3 phase
[00:30:20] <mhaberler> like for a big mill in the bathroom
[00:30:50] <RyanS> The building itself? And you branch off single phase for each apartment?
[00:31:35] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lcnwdIYEfI
[00:31:53] <andypugh> I think if i was a multimillionare I would go for a Gildermeister:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNcKNDxC5yA
[00:33:52] <icee> RyanS: yes, and you can run fluorescent lighting and potentially big loads like stoves from phase-to-phase
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[00:35:09] <RyanS> This might sound like a dumb question but do machining centres with five axes negate the need for a dedicated lathe?
[00:35:23] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=35d_1354838547
[00:36:15] <icee> RyanS: n
[00:39:26] <RyanS> hmmm I expected there to be a few big German CNC manufacturers .. Most of the advanced, well-known machines seem to be Japanese companies
[00:40:19] <RyanS> And surprisingly only Haas are US
[00:42:02] <icee> germany and japan invested in this area earlier
[00:42:19] <icee> a lot of our existing machining tool manufacturers were superseded as a result
[00:42:29] <icee> especially with the favorable cost structure of cheap foreign imports
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[00:43:34] <RyanS> yeah but are there actually big German manufacturers still around these days?
[00:44:02] <RyanS> CNC that is
[00:44:54] <icee> datron, maho, etc
[00:45:04] <icee> also, there's a big swiss machine tool industry
[00:45:09] <icee> those machines are weird.
[00:45:49] <RyanS> swiss... they must be very precise and timely lol
[00:47:03] <icee> http://www.todaysmachiningworld.com/how-it-works-%E2%80%93-why-swiss/
[00:47:25] <RyanS> Are there actually any Chinese machines that you could call reliable, well engineered et cetera?
[00:48:00] <icee> sold into the western markets? not really quite yet
[00:48:24] <icee> they tend to be poorly designed, look burly but have lots of metal in the wrong places for rigidity.. subpar/strange controls with.. yet more poorly engineered interfaces
[00:49:19] <RyanS> I wonder why tho.. I mean they have a pretty huge manufacturing industry
[00:50:19] <icee> it's not as big of a market as you think; it's a large, expensive-to-ship thing which eliminates some of hte benefits of producing it internationally; brand name and service organizations are very important which doesn't favor a model of dumping an undifferentiated product.. domestic consumption of the actual quality emerging chinese machine tools are high
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[00:51:02] <icee> and finally, the market here is flooded with enough chinese garbage that it's a little harder for new brands to stand out and differentiate themselves successfully, so it makes a lot of those other investments look a little more untenable
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[00:52:52] <RyanS> I suppose if your running a machine all day you have to consider whether parts and repair are readily available?
[00:53:18] <icee> yes
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[00:54:54] <RyanS> They probably also have financing , leasing and trading in options
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[01:00:30] <RyanS> are the majority of CNC machines owned by companies manufacturing parts in-house as part of their own production chain, or is there a big market for having CNC parts manufacturing outsourced to companies that specialise in that ?
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[01:01:27] <RyanS> I know rapid prototyping is often outsourced...
[01:01:29] <andypugh> Many outsourcing companies
[01:02:50] <RyanS> Is there much of a profit margin in manufacturing CNC parts? I guess you don't have as much labour costs!
[01:03:16] <andypugh> The company I used to work for outsourced everything. In fact they used 2 shops, one for R&D parts and another for production quantities.
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[01:03:59] <andypugh> On comany we used was this one:
http://www.milfab.co.uk/cncmills.htm
[01:04:28] <RyanS> I wanted to get something machined out of Styrofoam as a mould pattern. Far too expensive.
[01:04:46] <Jymmm> Huh?
[01:05:07] <Jymmm> RyanS: What was it?
[01:06:08] <RyanS> Was going to be used as a former for fibreglass. lost foam mould
[01:06:28] <Jymmm> RyanS: Depending on the detail, that is AMAZINGLY EASY AND fairly cheap to do
[01:06:44] <Jymmm> bbiab
[01:06:56] <RyanS> finished up using a hot wire cutter
[01:07:09] <RyanS> They quoted $600
[01:07:30] <andypugh> For one part?
[01:07:39] <RyanS> yep
[01:07:39] <andypugh> They may not have wanted the job.
[01:07:51] <RyanS> That's what my guess is
[01:08:05] <RyanS> Not worth it for them
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[01:08:47] <andypugh> It might have been $600 for one, $605 for 2, etc...
[01:09:20] <andypugh> Anyway. 'tis late
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[01:09:23] <RyanS> yeh, 'setup costs' or something
[01:15:29] <Tecan> what have you say
[01:16:26] <Tecan> setup costs or something else hmmm sounds like a condundrum
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[02:01:14] <Jymmm> RyanS: plastic bag, plastic stretch wrap, vacuum bag, and foam-in-a-can, or two-part polyurethane
[02:01:24] <Tom_itx> lost foam casting?
[02:02:12] <Jymmm> no loss about it =)
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[03:28:42] <L84Supper> saved foam casting?
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[06:15:37] <RyanS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1VtofzVG24 1:32....... jeez
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[07:49:18] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[10:53:32] <Loetmichel> mornin'
[10:56:04] <Loetmichel> *BAH* COOOLD* ... supervised the unload of 16 pallets Computers and monitors... now my fingers are feel-less :-(
[11:27:11] <mrsun> type faster so they get warm =)
[11:32:43] <DJ9DJ> you need an usb finger warm-up device
[11:33:03] * Loetmichel hat sich erst mal ein teechen gemacht ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802
[11:33:06] <Loetmichel> sorry
[11:33:08] <DJ9DJ> usb heated gloves
[11:33:21] * Loetmichel made hinself a little tea to warm the fingers and warm the inside ;-) -> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13802
[11:36:43] <syyl_> stop supervising, get to work ;)
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[12:09:00] <mrsun> finaly found what will dissolve powder coating
[12:09:06] <mrsun> benzylalcohol =)
[12:09:20] <mrsun> syyl_, +1 =)
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[12:09:54] <syyl_ws> :)
[12:10:55] <mrsun> just painted on a light coating of benzylalcohol and wrapped in plastic and put some heat on, in half an hour alot of paint has losened up already =)
[12:11:15] <mrsun> and havent coated nearly as much as it says to coat ... 1L is supposed to just be for 0.5 - 2 m2 of area
[12:11:25] <mrsun> but with plastic coating it cant evaporate z3
[12:11:27] <mrsun> <3
[12:11:47] <mrsun> the places where there is no plastic coating it has evaporated and dried out already and no mentionable effect on the powdercoat
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[13:02:04] <jthornton> Dave Brubeck died at the ripe old age of 91
[13:02:22] <p0g0> taking 5 on high...
[13:03:05] <jthornton> yep, my favorite tune is take 5
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[14:47:47] <L84Supper> mrsun: at least your powder coat, that link i posted showed that approach takes advantage of the pores in the polymer coating and gets into the pores and loosens the bond between it and the substrate
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[14:50:26] <L84Supper> http://www.flexisolv.com/documents/FlexiSolv%20Benzyl%20Alcohol%20Technical%20Data%20Sheet.pdf has some interesting formulations using it
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[16:15:52] <tjb1> JT-Shop: enlighten me the importance of homing
[16:16:06] <tjb1> Im not being a smartass, I just really want to know
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[16:27:34] <mrsun> L84Supper, atleast it works =)
[16:27:44] <mrsun> tried it before and nothing happened
[16:27:57] <mrsun> borrowed it and tried it .. now i bought a can so i can go mental :P
[16:28:00] <mrsun> expensive tho :(
[16:29:56] <mrsun> tjb1, to know where you are on the workpiece? :)
[16:30:12] <tjb1> I can do that with touch off
[16:30:20] <mrsun> yeah thats what i ment also :P
[16:30:23] <mrsun> i see that as homing :P
[16:30:33] <mrsun> homing i guess is for the machine to have a fixed point to return to
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[16:32:19] <gmouer> anyone know if firmware is available for the mesa 5i25 to use one 7i77 board and the spare port as a high speed standard parallel port?
[16:32:31] <gmouer> Didn't see anything on the mesa site
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[16:35:36] <pcw_home> you can use the other pins as GPIO
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[16:36:26] <gmouer> Hi Pete, I have 7i77x2 firmware on the 5i25 as shipped
[16:37:25] <pcw_home> Like all Hostmot2 firmware, all pins can be used as GPIO if the special functions are turned off
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[16:38:34] <gmouer> never went into that area, I used pncconf which setup all the pins for me on the single 7i77
[16:39:17] <pcw_home> so for example if you set all sserial ports, encoders and what not to 0 in the config line you would just have 2 ports of GPIO
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[16:39:56] <gmouer> the line where HM2 loads into hal?
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[16:40:44] <JT-Shop> tjb1: it sets the machine 0 so soft limits work as well as G53 G0 and G28 and G30 and and and
[16:42:06] <gmouer> What about the firmware flashed into the 5i25? that was factory programmed for 2x 7i77..... does that get in the way at all?
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[16:42:44] <pcw_home> no, all hostmot2 firmware can use all pins as GPIO
[16:44:16] <pcw_home> and you can also use the mesaflash utility to update the 5I25 firmware if you wish
[16:44:16] <gmouer> so setting the spare 5i25 port up as a parallel port would be done in the hal file, where the HM2 is loaded, on that same line, correct?
[16:44:44] <pcw_home> yes its dependent on the config=xxxx option
[16:45:16] <gmouer> thats what confuses me, why would I, and do I need to update the 5i25 firmware to use the setup as a single 7i77 and the spare port as a parallel port?
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[16:50:51] <pcw_home> No
[16:51:02] <jdh> I just got back from a radio shack getting some coax power plug things. They had arduinos, basic stamps, various shields, etc. I thought they just sold cell phones and crappy electronics now.
[16:51:48] <pcw_home> reasons to update if you dont change your hardware are bugfixes, and new features
[16:51:49] <gmouer> thanks Pete, its not very clear yet, I will have to examine my hal file a bit and see if I can get a better understanding
[16:52:25] <gmouer> ok, have there been bugfixes and updates to the 5i25 7i77 firmware?
[16:52:35] <pcw_home> reading the HostMot2 manpage may help
[16:53:37] <gmouer> I know the older FPIO boards did not have the flash memory on them and a most of the docs are geared around the older board rather than the newer 5i25
[16:53:51] <pcw_home> Yes ther have been updates but nothing major, mainly stuff that does not affect your configuration
[16:54:38] <gmouer> is there a update listing anywhere that lists the various revision changes?
[16:54:43] <pcw_home> ( and working toward ability to upgrade remote firmware = 7I77 firmware for example)
[16:55:30] <pcw_home> Most changes have been in sserial and there are only listed in the sserial source
[16:56:47] <gmouer> I need to order another 7i77 soon, screwed up and got the 7i76 by accident with the 5i25
[16:57:06] <pcw_home> (which is in the firmware zipfile)
[16:57:36] <pcw_home> You can return it for credit
[16:57:56] <gmouer> wow, I didn't think that was possible, considering it was my screw up
[16:59:29] <gmouer> I'm yanking my machines off Mach3 one at a time, using 7i77's for all three, love those boards
[17:00:03] <pcw_home> Were pretty happy with it
[17:00:45] <gmouer> I dragged a couple friends with me from mach over to linuxcnc and mesa boards, all glad they made the switch
[17:01:06] <pcw_home> I think the lastest 7I77s and 7I76's have the MPG feature
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[17:01:51] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[17:01:54] <gmouer> have not read about the "MPG" feature anywheres yet
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[17:02:16] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
[17:02:18] <pcw_home> Like all of our stuff it buried deep in the manuals
[17:03:18] <gmouer> my friend is starting a bridgeport retrofit today with a 7i77, it looks to be way too easy! Just reconnect the terminal strip leads in the old control to the 7i77, not a bit of additional electronics needed
[17:03:24] <IchGuckLive> smile on you pcw
[17:04:43] <gmouer> ah, have not looked for a updated 7i77 manual, I have been using the one from a few months ago, don't think it mentions MPG
[17:04:59] <IchGuckLive> gmouer: with servos already mounted ir to be dione
[17:05:01] <pcw_home> Well you need to check I/O polarities carefully since the 7I77 inputs need to be pulled up and the outputs drive grounded loads
[17:05:56] <gmouer> yea, I warned him about the field I/O being sourcing outputs, luckily that is exactly what he needs for all the bridgeport connections
[17:06:02] <pcw_home> The MPG option allows 2 MPG inputs (4 pins) on 7I77/7I76 input pins
[17:06:37] <pcw_home> I think inputs 16,17,18,19
[17:07:00] <gmouer> ah! using the standard input pins for MPG, not the encoder inputs, I see
[17:07:53] <pcw_home> Yes especially nice on the 7I76 where you dont have a free encoder
[17:08:40] <skunkworks> gmouer, But hood says he has never ever had mach do something funky...
[17:08:46] <skunkworks> :)
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[17:09:19] <gmouer> yea sam, I seen that,,,,,, everyone has mach do something wierd, its just a matter of time
[17:09:21] <pcw_home> Supporting 5V encoders makes us glad we did all the inputs as analog so it just a firmware option to set thresholds
[17:10:34] <gmouer> Pete, things like setting those thresholds are done in the boards firmware, right? not something user accessible?
[17:11:02] <pcw_home> Not currently
[17:11:06] <kwallace> How high or low can the inputs go?
[17:11:17] <pcw_home> 0 to 36V
[17:11:40] <pcw_home> so for MPGs the threshold is set to 2.5V
[17:11:50] <gmouer> Pete, is that voltage range related to the field supply voltage?
[17:12:44] <pcw_home> Not the voltage range, but the default threshold is 40/60% of field voltage
[17:13:17] <pcw_home> (60% going up ,40% going down = hysteresis)
[17:14:05] <gmouer> I understand
[17:14:31] <kwallace> So one could run say 12 or 24 Volt signals from encoders with drivers on the far end to help with noise?
[17:14:45] <pcw_home> so with 24V field voltage threshold is 14.4V going up and 9.6V going down
[17:15:54] <pcw_home> Yes though the 7I77 MPG/encoder inputs are only good to 50,000 CPS since they are really intended for MPGs
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[17:17:47] <pcw_home> We are limited by the ~4 MSPS A-D in the PIC and the 32 input channels we are reading
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[17:34:32] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: on the 7i77 the inputs can this be driven by 24V on limitswitches and the 16-19 for MFG parallel 5V
[17:35:49] <pcw_home> Yes if you have the latest 7I77 firmware that supports the MPG inputs
[17:37:19] <IchGuckLive> did this also change on 7i76 i own
[17:38:21] <pcw_home> Yes but needs new 7I76 firmware.
[17:41:00] <IchGuckLive> i will se how i can get this on ubuntu done
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[20:51:54] <tom3p> Dave Brubeck: wrangler, ukulele player, cowboy singer, and , oh yeah, jazz pianist
http://www.npr.org/programs/fresh-air/
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[21:31:52] <Loetmichel> und leider tot
[21:32:11] <Loetmichel> ahem: ... and sadly: dead
[21:37:42] <L84Supper> at what point do you stop hand tapping 8mm holes in t-slot and just order it that way? :)
[21:38:27] <L84Supper> 2 maybe 4 holes max
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[22:09:33] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:10:09] <kwallace> http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/sites/7/images/member_albums/45900/upt01.jpg
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