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[00:26:29] <r00t4rd3d> we are about to get hammered with snow
[00:26:52] <toastydeath> that was the biggest letdown of any sentence ever
[00:26:57] <toastydeath> "WE'RE ABOUT TO GET HAMMERED"
[00:27:00] <toastydeath> and i was like WOO SHOTS
[00:27:03] <toastydeath> "..by snow"
[00:27:05] <toastydeath> Awww
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[00:28:05] <JT-Shop> lol
[00:31:14] <Valen> lol
[00:35:42] <JT-Shop> damn sliding door is falling off of the CHNC
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[00:38:29] <JT-Shop> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcS3NOQnsQM
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[00:57:57] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0ey-b6YtIQ
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[01:04:02] <r00t4rd3d> http://www.hexbright.com/
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[02:39:06] <tjb1> Evening #linuxcnc
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[04:45:32] <FlowerOfLife> Probably a simple one, I already use my USB playstation controller to jog my X and Z axis, how can I connect my input.0.btn-TL to dout-00 without disconnecting it from motion.digital.out-03
[04:47:29] <FlowerOfLife> I dont understand how to control my digital outs with my pendant like I control my axis's with it. Am I missing something simple?
[04:52:46] <FlowerOfLife> My only solution to this has been to create two individual configuration files, one which connect all douts to my usb pendant, and another config which uses the default motion.digital.out-xx.
[04:53:08] <FlowerOfLife> thanks in advance
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[05:32:48] <tjb1> Does anyone here have the current clamp from fluke?
[05:33:21] * Jymmm has a .01 resistor =)
[05:33:59] <tjb1> :/
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[05:34:46] <Aero-Tec> hello
[05:35:01] <tjb1> I could use one but I don't know if I could use one for $170 yet..
[05:36:23] <tjb1> Ridiculous, I can get a Fluke Clamp Meter for $105 that does 400A…the i410 clamp that does 400A is $170 :(
[05:37:44] <Jymmm> Apple Current Amp?
[05:38:41] <tjb1> ??
[05:38:50] <Jymmm> i410
[05:39:04] <Jymmm> IPod IPad iMac
[05:39:47] <tjb1> I smell a lawsuit
[05:55:51] <tjb1> Jymmmy
[06:01:59] <abetusk> anyone have any experience with gerber to gcode conversion?
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[07:10:02] <tjb1> www.woot.com is having a woot-off for anyone interested
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[07:23:20] <cblack30> Anyone know if the Mesa 7I87 smart serial analog input card is supported in emc?
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[08:11:02] <DJ9DJ> moin
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[08:59:43] <theos> moin
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[09:59:06] <mk0> is it possible to install master-sim from buildbot on 12.10?
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[10:40:10] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[11:18:04] <qguy> hi.
[11:18:25] <qguy> is there any open hardware board you can use with emc instead of the parallel port?
[11:27:54] <jthornton> what is an "open hardware board"?
[11:28:21] <qguy> something you can solder on a board of your own making, compile the firmware, and flash it, without any restrictions.
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[11:29:22] <jthornton> like a PCI card?
[11:29:32] <qguy> or like an usb device
[11:29:54] <jthornton> usb will not work for motion control with LinuxCNC
[11:29:57] <archivist> usb is not really an option because of usb latency problems
[11:30:19] <qguy> well..
[11:30:40] <qguy> what if you dump data that describes how to take acceleration and blends?
[11:30:45] <archivist> we get this on a regular basis
[11:30:51] <qguy> hah
[11:30:57] <qguy> i suppose so.
[11:31:08] <jthornton> sure that will work you just have to write the software to use it
[11:31:48] <qguy> I made something around an arm device, that can generate 6 independent pulses and the way the pulses, from control data over an USB link
[11:32:00] <archivist> you have to move a large part of linuxcnc to the external device
[11:32:38] <qguy> well.. I'm trying to move just the HAL part which deals with time differences between succesive pulses.
[11:33:37] <qguy> i've thought of a rather simple way to make blends/accelerations - i'm sending along with the division factors from the main clock (which derive the step pulses), some derivative values, each x pulses, add y to the division factors.
[11:33:38] <archivist> the trajectory planner is realtime and is the real controller, hal is mainly the interconnections
[11:33:56] <qguy> which.. works. i can get accelerations and blending, at a rather primitve level.
[11:34:14] <qguy> ah.
[11:34:37] <qguy> i've been reading the documents, but I suppose the secrets lie in the source :)
[11:34:43] <qguy> well.
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[11:35:20] <archivist> you can take a large lump and feed it by nml messages
[11:35:42] <qguy> the reason I'm asking is because I've been trying to integrate it with - avoiding autoban bots - m-a-c-h3, and it turns out, their USB controllers use exactly the same algorithm for handling accelerations and the same trick - dump interpreted g code into "accelerated data"
[11:36:16] <jthornton> why not just use mack
[11:36:19] <qguy> uuhh.. and now I'm confused :)
[11:36:35] <qguy> well, because linuxcnc is much more flexible
[11:36:42] <archivist> trying to integrate with makshift is a bit silly
[11:36:47] <jthornton> that is for sure
[11:36:55] <qguy> and it's getting outdated fast
[11:37:07] <archivist> so just use linuxcnc porblem solved
[11:37:12] <jthornton> why not make a pci card like the Mesa card
[11:37:36] <qguy> the paraport stopped working on win7/64, and Art didn't fix it..
[11:37:54] <qguy> well, because you can't shove that into a laptop or *gasp* netbook
[11:38:17] <archivist> forget windows specially with 8 and other carp
[11:38:27] <qguy> here's what I'm thinking: you can't dump raw pulses over USB, obviously
[11:38:40] <qguy> but you can dump a method of generating them, like I'm doing right now.
[11:38:49] <qguy> at the simplest level, just the time difference between a lot of them.
[11:39:21] <archivist> you can put a large part of linuxcnc on an arm board and communicate via nml messages
[11:39:33] <qguy> but I'm thinking there must be something smarter I can find in the guts of linuxcnc - specifically, the part that get blending/accelerations, and use _those_ values to generate my pulses.
[11:40:03] <jthornton> you just have to read and understand the source and your all set
[11:40:08] <qguy> this way a computer can do traj planning, and a separate board can do pulsing.
[11:40:14] <archivist> and someone is working on an arm port at the moment
[11:40:14] <qguy> haha, yeah >< that's why I'm here
[11:40:21] <qguy> ah.
[11:40:24] <qguy> that sounds awesome
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[11:40:40] <archivist> the external box gets the trajectory planner
[11:41:24] <qguy> by that logic, you can just dump the G code over the serial link and interpret it too...
[11:42:15] <archivist> you should read the last two months of the developers mailing list
[11:42:59] <archivist> the natural cut is currently at the nml messaging not gcode
[11:43:57] <Loetmichel> re @ home
[11:46:17] <archivist> some are messaging over the network from the display to an embedded board
[11:46:20] <skunkworks> mesa does have a External PCIE board... (that I think works with linuxcnc...) but you would still need a laptop with e-pcie and it would have to run realtime decently.
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[12:05:15] <qguy> hmm. this does seem like quite an undertaking.
[12:05:48] <qguy> ..and I thought integrating the pulse generator with PC software would be the easy part
[12:08:47] <qguy> I can always run an extra real time thread to _sample_ the parallel port output pins, figure the time difference, accumulate a few seconds worth of pulses, and dump that into my device, hehehe
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[12:10:23] <IchGuckLive> hi all around the World
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[12:18:59] <qguy> archivist: you do seem to know a lot about the internals of emc2. would you say there's some specific starting point for what I need?
[12:19:42] <archivist> a couple of months reading the source
[12:20:08] <archivist> reading some docs of how it works
[12:20:14] <qguy> I suppose 4.20. EMC_TRAJ_LINEAR_MOVE_TYPE is what I need for starters (sends a linear move from the interp to motion, 220), since I'd be essentialy replacing EMCMOT?
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[12:20:30] <qguy> ah well, mostly that.
[12:21:30] <archivist> and then something like
http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/EMC2/remote_notes.html
[12:21:40] <archivist> where you can see the blocks
[12:23:54] <archivist> I dont know the code that well but know where the cut is easiest to make to move the control into a remote pc
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[12:26:54] <qguy> now I get your "natural cut" remark :) I was wondering what that was...
[12:28:32] <archivist> so your gui reads gcode talks nml to a linuxcnc instance in another box via some communication medium
[12:29:32] <archivist> you should find some examples people have setup
[12:32:23] <archivist> but if you read recent threads on the developer mailing list you can see some work on ARM that you could join in on and help test
[12:33:53] <archivist> save you reinventing all the wheel as many try to :)
[12:34:21] <jthornton> a couple of times a week it seems :)
[12:35:15] <archivist> even I got the treatment about 5 years ago
[12:35:24] <qguy> the treatment?
[12:35:38] <archivist> told why usb is no good etc
[12:35:58] <qguy> well, initially I thought I can just write my own motion controller, around the protocol I already use
[12:36:26] <qguy> is USB still a bad choice if you dump higher level data than raw pulses?
[12:36:57] <archivist> the latency can be very bad
[12:37:33] <archivist> device discovery drops back to usb 1 speeds
[12:37:47] <qguy> well, if you have other transactions on the bus, yeah ><
[12:38:55] <archivist> you dont know what the pc maker has shoved on a particular usb port eg is it a hub inside the pc
[12:39:03] <qguy> ideally one shouldn't mess with a machine while it's cutting, but I've seen farmville break diamond bits :P
[12:39:20] <qguy> well, you can view that if you really want to
[12:40:25] <qguy> I think that can be solved easily - you offload all the data before running it, and the external device runs it; the connection is kept just for non-critical stuff, like visualizing progress or chaning feed rates
[12:40:56] <archivist> emergency stop
[12:41:19] <qguy> having that routed through software is a bad idea IMO
[12:42:09] <qguy> but you can have the emergency stop on your motion controller then
[12:42:33] <qguy> which could probably be neat too, you can get one of those big red mushroom buttons, instead of a tiny F1 key :)
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[15:27:11] <IchGuckLive> hia all
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[15:36:03] <JT-Shop> hi
[15:37:28] <IchGuckLive> JT-Shop: do you know howto customise the Docs so its in my hometown language
[15:37:37] <IchGuckLive> the packets are installed
[15:37:50] <IchGuckLive> the files are here
[15:37:57] <IchGuckLive> but howtostart
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[15:45:36] <JBFromOZ> does anyone have experience with chinese 4th axis eg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/cnc-router-4axis-rotary-axis-4th-axis-A-axis-for-the-engraving-machine-/221167774248?
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[15:46:22] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ: depending on use
[15:46:29] <IchGuckLive> price is ok for that
[15:46:40] <IchGuckLive> cand you build it your own
[15:47:05] <JBFromOZ> i've got a herless mill, looking to add something like that for gear cutting (indexing for hob)
[15:47:34] <IchGuckLive> it is limited in pricision
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[15:47:53] <IchGuckLive> as you see its 1 on 4
[15:48:08] <IchGuckLive> so you got 1600 pricise points at 360deg
[15:48:33] <archivist> JBFromOZ, are you confusing hobbing with gear milling
[15:48:43] <IchGuckLive> if you go higher it is up to the controler and Voltige to hold the force
[15:49:26] <JBFromOZ> archivist: considering 2 options for a project, cutting 32DP gearset for an old CVA toolroom lathe
[15:49:34] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ: europ or USA
[15:49:43] <archivist> hobbing is a continuous process no indexing
[15:49:46] <JBFromOZ> one is concentric cut hob, other is spiral cut hob
[15:50:28] <archivist> OZ is neither usa or eu
[15:50:38] <archivist> its upside down
[15:50:43] <JBFromOZ> heh yeah
[15:50:56] <archivist> we had a CVA at the last job
[15:51:04] <IchGuckLive> AUstralia so its hot there
[15:51:15] <JBFromOZ> its cool at moment, inside with aircon
[15:51:23] <IchGuckLive> O.O
[15:51:48] <archivist> milling cutter are not called hobs :)
[15:51:50] <JBFromOZ> outside its still 30 C at midnight
[15:52:19] <JBFromOZ> wanting to cut a set of these gears:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:37795
[15:53:06] <JBFromOZ> to do metric threading on the CVA
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[15:53:37] <JBFromOZ> got 127 tooth and 154 tooth gears to do, along with the smaller ranges,
[15:53:47] <JBFromOZ> so 1600 not going to divide in so well
[15:54:08] <JBFromOZ> 12.598 steps
[15:55:07] <archivist> high count gears should not be made on low accuracy dividing heads, the worm/gear internally can be a lot worse than the stepper resolution
[15:55:08] <IchGuckLive> you can go higher with microstepping
[15:55:43] <JBFromOZ> so is it likely the stepper is 0.3 degree steps, with 6:1 reduction via belt/pulley
[15:56:15] <JBFromOZ> or is 0.3 degree at the chuck
[15:56:18] <archivist> I need to write a page on how the dividing head itself adds error
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[15:57:37] <IchGuckLive> worm 90:1 is best in calculation with steppers times 400
[15:57:58] <IchGuckLive> gives you 36000 steps
[15:58:19] <IchGuckLive> so scale is 100
[15:58:33] <IchGuckLive> and 0.01 deg is good
[15:59:10] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ: does meadler sel to the Australia
[15:59:13] <JBFromOZ> worm 90:1 in a different otem?
[15:59:28] <JBFromOZ> IchGuckLive, I do not know, havent heard of them
[15:59:58] <archivist> see also
http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
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[16:00:16] <JBFromOZ> ahh yeah got lots of mythical microstepping fun in the #reprap game
[16:00:42] <archivist> where microstepping may well not be any improvement at all
[16:00:59] <JBFromOZ> not from an accuracy point of view no
[16:01:29] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ:
http://maedler.de/Article/32209000.aspx
[16:01:36] <archivist> you could just change the pulleys on that design
[16:02:21] <archivist> I see no accuracy specification on that worm wheel
[16:03:10] <JBFromOZ> so use a stepper driving that worm, then driving the chuck
[16:03:31] <IchGuckLive> archivist get the pdf
[16:04:28] <IchGuckLive> http://smarthost.maedler.de/datenblaetter/praezischnecken_EN.pdf
[16:05:56] <JBFromOZ> hmm found another that refers to 3:1 and 0.6degree per step, so likely a 1.8" nema,
[16:06:08] <JBFromOZ> 1.8? even
[16:06:15] <JBFromOZ> blergh
[16:06:45] <archivist> I still dont see any angular gear set accuracy, those are specified for power transmission not angular precision as far as I can see
[16:06:53] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ: anything below 30:1 is bad
[16:07:15] <IchGuckLive> archivist page 3
[16:07:22] <IchGuckLive> backlash
[16:07:47] <archivist> that is not angular error in one direction
[16:08:05] <archivist> should be in parts of a degree
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[16:09:50] <JBFromOZ> hmm what about just adding a stepper to the manual dividing head,
[16:10:04] <archivist> that is what I have done
[16:10:37] <IchGuckLive> thats the best way to do it
[16:10:42] <archivist> I have used a Vertex rotary which does have a published angular error
[16:10:58] <JBFromOZ> i can check gearing etc, figure out accuracy, hoping that the existing dividing head is somewhat accurate
[16:11:36] <JBFromOZ> saw a vid today where the 4th axis was electronically connected to the z
[16:11:55] <JBFromOZ> sorry not Z, milling head
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[16:12:13] <JBFromOZ> optical encoder to tie the 4th axis to the cutter
[16:12:20] <JBFromOZ> for use with spiral hob
[16:12:44] <IchGuckLive> im off see you at 19:00 Berlin time
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[16:12:51] <JBFromOZ> any cheap and cheerful ways to get a position off the cutter?
[16:13:13] <archivist> to test a random rotary, cut a high count gear at a large diameter, use a digital vernier over a number of teeth and work your way around the gear looking for min (reset to 0 as you go) when finished the second lap you will see a maximum
[16:13:35] <JBFromOZ> ok cool
[16:13:56] <JBFromOZ> thanks
[16:14:13] <archivist> I have seen some very poor rotaries
[16:14:50] <archivist> nearly .7 degree peak to peak error
[16:15:22] <JBFromOZ> hmm
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[16:18:12] <archivist> we had some gears returned :)
[16:19:00] * JBFromOZ has much to learn, and is not producing for others, so can be a little forgiving of errors whilst learning
[16:19:09] <archivist> had to learn to measure the the rotary dividing heads we had access to, one of the 5 was ok
[16:20:19] <archivist> a lot of the time you can be "good enough", where I worked he had been happy for 20 years, till we did the specials
[16:20:25] <JBFromOZ> cutting a tooth at a time, then indexing? or continuous feeding?
[16:20:56] <archivist> milling, tooth at a time
[16:21:58] <archivist> if hobbing then some of the error will be hidden but will show as excess and varying backlash
[16:22:37] <archivist> likely wont notice for ordinary work
[16:24:16] <JBFromOZ> was thinking to try something like this
[16:24:23] <JBFromOZ> http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/gear-cutting-hob-4660/
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[16:25:11] <JBFromOZ> set to 20degree PA index a tooth at a time,
[16:25:34] <JBFromOZ> which cuts flats instead of a continuous invlute
[16:26:10] <archivist> ugh
[16:26:48] <JBFromOZ> alternative is to make something up like this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ8kyC_bpHs
[16:27:32] <archivist> either gear spindle to rotary and really hob or gear mill
[16:28:13] <JBFromOZ> are there cheap and cheerful ways to gear spindle to rotary?
[16:28:36] <archivist> yes if you are using linuxcnc
[16:28:50] <JBFromOZ> not sure how to get an encoder on the rotary to know where it is at
[16:29:58] <JBFromOZ> hmm rotary is 4th axis, i mean spindle yeah?
[16:30:23] <archivist> you put the encoder on the spindle and gear in software the rotary follows
[16:30:29] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhICrb0Tbn4
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[16:32:27] <JBFromOZ> just not sure where i can sit the encoder on
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87180506@N08/8315104556/in/set-72157632353641139/
[16:35:29] <archivist> some have opened a cover on the head and put a hall effect sensor near a drive gear
[16:36:25] <archivist> you do need a once per rev index as well
[16:36:44] <JBFromOZ> that has potential, any how-to's or wikis on that kind of thing?
[16:37:30] <JBFromOZ> ahh ok
[16:38:36] <archivist> I think you should find links in the log for here and also the user mailing list
[16:39:17] <JBFromOZ> ok cool thank you
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[17:05:03] <IchGuckLive> rain all over here water is climbing fast in the rivers
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[17:06:55] <JBFromOZ> woot its dropped to 27 degrees
[17:07:12] <JBFromOZ> might be able to get some sleep
[17:07:42] <JBFromOZ> thanks for all the advice its been very helpful cheers
[17:07:59] <IchGuckLive> our brazilian folks still sweed
[17:08:25] <IchGuckLive> JBFromOZ: what time do you got the 28th at your polace
[17:08:39] <JBFromOZ> 1 AM
[17:09:50] <IchGuckLive> thats western time perth
[17:10:10] <JBFromOZ> yup
[17:10:12] <IchGuckLive> West Australia Daylight Time (WADT)
[17:10:31] <kwallace> http://pico-systems.com/bridge_spindle.html
[17:10:36] <JBFromOZ> preparing for 40 degrees again tomorrow
[17:10:36] <IchGuckLive> im in germany Pairis,Berlin time
[17:11:05] <IchGuckLive> 6am 27th
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[17:11:57] <IchGuckLive> always a plesure to watch sydney firerworks
[17:12:36] <JBFromOZ> kwallace, cheers :-)
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[17:17:39] <archivist> the other one with pictures is by andypugh but cannot remember where he put the pictures
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[17:30:09] <L84Supper> http://www.tankmuseum.org/ anyone ever visit there? Worth a trip for the exhibitions?
[17:30:47] <IchGuckLive> tanks are always worth a visit
[17:31:06] <L84Supper> Tiger day is March 13
[17:39:51] <archivist> not been yet
[17:41:13] <archivist> I want to ask questions in the archive when I do as the first research over here was 4 miles away at a car manufacturing company
[17:42:43] <IchGuckLive> the world is so little
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[17:44:56] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: What are the science and tech museums to check out when in Germany?
[17:45:15] * archivist slaps the archive not finding the right baguley
[17:48:19] <L84Supper> www.deutsches-museum.de ?
[17:50:31] <awallin_> according to my blog, in 2008 I visited these:
[17:50:37] <awallin_> http://www.museum.hu-berlin.de/index.html
[17:50:46] <awallin_> http://www.dtmb.de/
[17:50:56] <awallin_> http://www.dtmb.de/Spectrum/index.html
[17:51:02] <awallin_> all in Berlin
[17:54:04] <L84Supper> thanks
[17:54:41] <archivist> as the tank museum is in britain when are you coming here then
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[18:00:34] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: where in germany are yoiu visitiing South noth ?
[18:01:43] * JT-Shop tosses the last weeks worth of parts in the scrap bin
[18:02:13] <pcw_home> Thats not good
[18:02:28] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: stopovers are usually through Frankfurt
[18:02:54] <IchGuckLive> best is Spayer but its 130km away
[18:03:04] <L84Supper> so it depends if I take 1 or 3 days
[18:03:31] <IchGuckLive> http://speyer.technik-museum.de/
[18:03:33] <L84Supper> same for the UK
[18:03:55] <L84Supper> London Heathrow
[18:06:49] <archivist> dorset is some distance for heathrow
[18:07:37] <L84Supper> so I'd make that a long weekend trip
[18:09:16] <L84Supper> and since it's not the US, trains go 300kph vs 70 :)
[18:09:53] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: i forgot the famos senckenberg
http://www.senckenberg.de/root/index.php?page_id=71&PHPSESSID=i92n221poe1d1j4lfp8760q0jpbnj1co
[18:10:05] <IchGuckLive> this is it in frankfurt direct
[18:10:32] <archivist> trouble with
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_World_War_I there was a vehicle before the first they quote
[18:10:47] <ReadError> http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7151/6707890107_a3bfd949d0.jpg
[18:10:53] <ReadError> what tool do you suppose they used for that?
[18:10:55] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper:
http://www.senckenberg.de/root/index.php?page_id=5256
[18:11:02] <ReadError> it looks like a cutoff wheel
[18:11:07] <ReadError> but the diameter is small
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[18:14:43] <archivist> ReadError, some cheat and hob with a screw cutting tap
[18:14:55] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive:
http://speyer.technik-museum.de/en/en/boeing-747 impressive mounting
[18:15:13] <IchGuckLive> its a freek how owns it
[18:16:11] <ReadError> cheat and hob?
[18:17:09] <L84Supper> also makes it easy to spot when arriving by car
[18:17:13] <archivist> a tap is not a proper side cutting tool so it is cheating to use it that way
[18:18:04] <archivist> ReadError, but just grind up a fly cutter to make it
[18:18:26] <IchGuckLive> L84Supper: the cathedral is mutch larger
[18:18:28] <L84Supper> nice cheat for DIY and reprap extruders
[18:19:01] <L84Supper> those people ask about how to best cut threaded rods :)
[18:19:22] <L84Supper> hacksaw vs kitchen utility knife
[18:19:48] <archivist> but the shop...it has threaded rod
[18:21:29] <L84Supper> Frankfurt to Speyer must only be ~1 hour by train
[18:22:01] <L84Supper> including waiting on the platform
[18:22:18] <IchGuckLive> exactly 1:04hr
[18:22:33] <IchGuckLive> round trip is 30USD
[18:22:53] <L84Supper> oh i forgot, the trains actually ruin on a schedule, not like here where it's just a suggestion
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[18:36:37] <Loetmichel> L84Supper: the "russian concorde" looks evem more intriguing
[18:36:45] <Loetmichel> at the same museum
[18:39:57] <Loetmichel> nearby
[18:40:45] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: TU144
[18:42:03] <Loetmichel> tupolev something, yes
[18:42:33] <Loetmichel> i meant the incline they fittet that plane on the roof.. loks like it will fall down the very next moment ;-)
[18:42:40] <Loetmichel> (on you)
[18:43:20] <L84Supper> http://www.deutsches-museum.de/en/collections/transport/aeronautics/jets/messerschmitt-me-262/
[18:44:06] <L84Supper> and a Me163 as well
[18:44:18] <IchGuckLive> yea thats the one the US tock in full reconstruct as part of B2 creation
[18:45:57] <L84Supper> http://www.mhmbundeswehr.de/ also looks interesting
[18:46:19] <archivist> Duxford is a must for aircraft museums in the UK
[18:46:53] <L84Supper> I have to see those train museums as well
[18:47:25] <archivist> so many
[18:48:13] <L84Supper> when awake, 50% museum time, 40% pub time, ~10% travel and misc :)
[18:48:28] <archivist> you would need a month or three to get around a few rail museums
[18:50:08] <archivist> I did speak to a rail inspector who made a surprise to one where I was volunteering and he said in the hundreds iirc
[18:50:26] <archivist> surprise visit
[18:52:02] <archivist> we have some mighty stationary steam to see too
[18:53:16] <L84Supper> they still make new ones in China
[18:53:48] <IchGuckLive> china has opend the longest fast train raillane in the world
[18:54:00] <archivist> we made a new steam loco in the uk recently
[18:54:44] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: it's great. I travel on it. 325kph between towns
[18:55:23] <IchGuckLive> the new one have you been emong the US goverment tour
[18:55:32] <L84Supper> archivist: how does it look?
[18:56:20] <IchGuckLive> US BigBoy is still the largest
[18:56:38] <archivist> L84Supper,
http://www.a1steam.com/
[18:57:25] <L84Supper> IchGuckLive: I might be on that new line in Jan
[18:57:30] <IchGuckLive> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Pacific_Big_Boy
[18:58:08] <L84Supper> archivist: I was wondering how they would style it
[18:58:33] <L84Supper> old school or something modern even though it's steam
[19:04:04] <archivist> we have three sites a bit like Dearborn in the UK too
[19:04:17] <IchGuckLive> im off by till tomorrow
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[19:04:24] <L84Supper> yes, like the H. Ford museum
[19:05:02] <archivist> yup been there, didnt like the woman like a tape recorder
[19:05:34] <L84Supper> did you see the ruins of Detroit as well :)
[19:05:59] <archivist> dont think it was ruins when I came over
[19:07:32] <L84Supper> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2349112/posts Hiroshima vs Detroit -- 64 years later :)
[19:09:58] <archivist> we have seen it on TV over here recently
[19:10:45] <L84Supper> a decline of the US documentary?
[19:11:30] <archivist> something like that
[19:12:07] <archivist> but similar happens all over when the work gets shipped to cheap wage countries
[19:12:21] <L84Supper> you notice it a lot more when you travel back to the US. At first it was all the for sale/rent empty commercial property everywhere
[19:13:57] <L84Supper> now i really notice the decay of the infrastructure, especially bridges, roads and trains
[19:14:34] <archivist> unions should never have priced themselves out of work
[19:15:18] <archivist> some wage is better than none
[19:16:18] <L84Supper> they never should have let banks run with so little regulation
[19:17:02] <archivist> the greed of the financial sector, not just banks
[19:17:14] <L84Supper> and those in office
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[19:17:22] <L84Supper> it was all just sold out
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[19:18:31] <L84Supper> I can import just about anything into the US with no duties from China, but not the other way around
[19:19:30] <pcw_home> so much for free trade
[19:20:16] <L84Supper> the actual regulation is generally the opposite of how it is titled
[19:21:08] <L84Supper> I was surprise by how much people would tolerate in the US
[19:21:47] <pcw_home> Pretty much government by lobby
[19:22:38] <L84Supper> evil genius
[19:27:12] <L84Supper> trying to find something similar to silk screen frames to hold polymer films under tension
[19:27:44] <pcw_home> solder stencil frame?
[19:29:21] <L84Supper> yes, similar
[19:29:35] <pcw_home> (there are some universal ones with replaceable stencil film)
[19:30:35] <L84Supper> was going to make something using screws for tension
[19:34:01] <pcw_home> heres one that uses air pressure:
[19:34:02] <pcw_home> http://www.smtonline.com/pages/zone.cgi?a=87620
[19:34:56] <pcw_home> a polyester film might need more adjustment range though
[19:35:26] <L84Supper> those are great, just pricey
[19:36:35] <L84Supper> we are holding a film that is like a 8 x 12" soft contact lens
[19:36:37] <pcw_home> I bet we have 50 old frames in our attic
[19:37:12] <L84Supper> heh, maybe a trade?
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[19:37:39] <pcw_home> Yeah stencil frames are mostly a lot bigger
[19:37:59] <pcw_home> 18"x24" or more
[19:38:00] <L84Supper> the small films are only 4 x 6"
[19:38:19] <L84Supper> yeah, it's always buy vs build if possible
[19:38:20] <pcw_home> you may have to do it yourself
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[19:38:45] <L84Supper> but for odd/small sizes there isn't much choice
[19:40:44] <L84Supper> http://www.google.com/patents/US3482343?printsec=drawing#v=onepage&q&f=false
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[19:43:43] <pcw_home> http://xinology.com:888/Glass-Processing-Equipments-Supplies-Consumables/glass-printing/frames-screen-fabrics/feature/adjustable-frames.html
[19:44:47] <L84Supper> not too far away HK and Shenzhen
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[19:49:32] <L84Supper> pcw_home: do you have your own IR reflow and pick-n-place?
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[19:54:42] <pcw_home> No we dont do any assy
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[22:01:37] <DJ9DJ> gn8
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