#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-01-30

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[00:01:58] <jdh> nice.
[00:02:52] <jdh> where is here?
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[00:14:27] <Valen> jdh: sydney australia
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[00:37:18] <spikebike> Valen: ah, the land of record breaking temps so they had to rejigger the temp maps
[00:37:39] <Valen> yeah
[00:37:46] <Valen> hit 55C in the central areas i believe
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[00:52:16] <jthornton> why can't ubuntu 10.04 keep time?
[00:52:36] <Valen> jthornton: more details required
[00:53:43] <jthornton> I keep having to set the clock on my linux computers for some reason they don't keep proper time
[00:54:02] <Valen> does it drift over a reboot?
[00:54:16] <Valen> or does it drift slowly over a period of weeks
[00:54:45] <jthornton> seems to slowly drift and never checks the time standard
[00:54:58] <skunkworks> jthornton: I don't think I have ever had that problem
[00:54:59] <jthornton> I only boot when the electricity fails
[00:55:13] <jthornton> I have 2 or 3 that can't keep time
[00:55:30] <skunkworks> they are all on the network?\
[00:55:47] <Valen> terminal
[00:55:49] <Valen> ntpq
[00:55:51] <Valen> lpeers
[00:55:56] <jthornton> yes
[00:56:03] <Valen> should tell you whats going on with times
[00:56:15] <jthornton> ntpq not installed
[00:56:23] <Valen> well theres yer prablem
[00:56:35] <jthornton> lpeers command not found
[00:56:50] <Valen> sounds like you don't have a time client
[00:56:58] <Valen> sudo apt-get install ntpd
[00:57:32] <jthornton> couldn't find package ntpq
[00:57:39] <jthornton> it does find ntp
[00:57:56] <Valen> try just running ntpd
[00:58:20] <Valen> (note the D not q)
[00:58:41] <jthornton> oh crap
[00:59:08] <jthornton> john@zotac:~$ ntpd
[00:59:09] <jthornton> The program 'ntpd' can be found in the following packages:
[00:59:09] <jthornton> * ntp
[00:59:09] <jthornton> * openntpd
[00:59:16] <Valen> that'll do it
[00:59:25] <Valen> apt-get install ntp
[00:59:55] <jthornton> ok
[01:00:12] <jthornton> Setting up ntp (1:4.2.4p8+dfsg-1ubuntu2.1) ...
[01:00:13] <jthornton> * Starting NTP server ntpd [ OK ]
[01:00:34] <Valen> did you get a time jump? (IE the time changed to be right)
[01:01:01] <spikebike> that will take awhile to sync
[01:01:13] <spikebike> afaik ubuntu doesn't do a ntpdate first.
[01:01:17] <spikebike> service ntp stop
[01:01:22] <spikebike> ntpdate <ntpserver>
[01:01:24] <spikebike> then start
[01:01:26] <Valen> i *think* it may on a boot
[01:01:30] <spikebike> Don't think so
[01:01:39] <spikebike> it will however reference the cmos clock
[01:01:40] <jthornton> well I have set the time
[01:01:56] <Valen> that'll do the jump for you jthornton, if its out by more than a little bit it won't try and correct it
[01:01:59] <spikebike> but once ntp syncs up you are good for life
[01:02:05] <Valen> but that should keep your time accurate to a few msec ;->
[01:02:12] <spikebike> it will jump, but not for awhile
[01:02:16] <jthornton> time to start dinner, thanks for the help
[01:02:18] <Jymmm> ha!
[01:02:23] <spikebike> has to characterize the various time sources available
[01:02:38] <Jymmm> cesium clock FTW!
[01:03:09] <spikebike> cesium clocks aren't really clocks
[01:03:12] <spikebike> more like timers
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[01:03:30] <Jymmm> so are GPS
[01:03:30] <spikebike> you still need a reference time source
[01:03:37] <spikebike> no gps are clock, they do know what time it is
[01:03:46] <Valen> generally they are more of a frequency standard
[01:03:50] <spikebike> right
[01:03:51] <micges> jthornton: it seems drifting is side effect of running rt task
[01:03:59] <Jymmm> what do you think the master clock is?
[01:04:43] <Jymmm> http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/time/master-clock/the-master-clock
[01:05:55] <Valen> they put out a set tick that another doovey will make a time out of
[01:06:12] <Jymmm> goony goo goo
[01:06:59] <Valen> I spose it would be accurate to say a cesium clock, much as people say a quartz clock
[01:07:40] <spikebike> gps's would turn a pc/server into an awesome timesource if the pc clock was not 30x worse than your average $5 chinese wrist watch 8-(
[01:08:20] <Jymmm> If you have a GPS with PPS that is.
[01:08:30] <spikebike> ya
[01:08:45] <spikebike> well the better the reference the less PPS matters
[01:09:06] <Jymmm> Except for leak seconds.
[01:09:10] <Jymmm> leap seconds
[01:09:20] <spikebike> gps handles those
[01:09:32] <Jymmm> with PPS.
[01:09:35] <spikebike> unless you have a buggy one from a decade ago
[01:09:49] <Valen> theres plenty of GPS time references
[01:10:00] <Valen> hell I have a GPS ntp server sitting behind me now
[01:10:13] <Valen> has a rubidium ovened oscilator
[01:10:16] <Jymmm> Valen: who doesn't
[01:10:35] <Valen> my dad found it on the side of the road
[01:11:14] <Valen> literally
[01:11:15] <spikebike> typical desktop/servers can be off by up to 30 seconds a day
[01:11:26] <Valen> the screen is a bit manky on it
[01:11:26] <Jymmm> Go rtfm the ntpd sometime, it's interesting (to a mundane point)
[01:14:57] <Jymmm> Intro http://www.satsignal.eu/ntp/FreeBSD-GPS-PPS.htm
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[01:22:08] <Valen> hah what a small world
[01:22:29] <Valen> i know dave heart from rocketry stuff (if its the same one)
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[02:20:47] <markvandenborre> if you had about 2500€ and a pc running Debian, and no ambition to build your own cnc
[02:21:22] <markvandenborre> oh, and you'd want to cut 18mm birch plywood
[02:21:57] <markvandenborre> what would you get in terms of (Chinese?) hardware
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[02:35:43] <Valen> hmmm, calculating the acceleration of my new mill
[02:35:55] <Valen> coming up at 160G
[02:36:04] <Valen> that seems silly right?
[02:36:59] <Valen> ahh duh
[02:37:03] <Valen> meters per second not G
[02:37:26] <Valen> 33Gs
[02:37:35] <Valen> still silly high
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[02:46:30] <skunkworks> I doubt you would get much over 1g...
[02:47:20] <skunkworks> but it is late - and I make even less sense as the night goes on
[02:47:29] <Valen> so do I, so i'm wondering where the mistake in my maths is
[02:47:42] <Valen> 230NM motor
[02:47:52] <Valen> 4:1 gearing to a 5mm lead ballscrew
[02:48:07] <Valen> nets me 660kg worth of force
[02:48:14] <skunkworks> is 1g - 32ft/s^2
[02:48:36] <skunkworks> been a while
[02:48:49] <Valen> 1G = 9.8 meters per second ^2 i think you mean mr "lets crash an orbiter into mars)
[02:48:50] <Valen> ;-P
[02:49:37] <Valen> F=MA so F/M = a 6531N/50kg = 130 m/s/s
[02:49:48] <Valen> 50 kg gantry
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[02:50:11] <Valen> its sposed to have 2 drive motors on that axis too which pushes it up to 26G
[02:50:24] <Valen> car crashes are gentler than that
[02:50:31] <Valen> (small ones)
[02:50:46] <jdh> 230NM?
[02:50:54] <Valen> 230 oz inches sorry
[02:50:59] <Valen> 1.6 N/M
[02:51:13] <jdh> taht would be a helluva moter
[02:51:24] <Valen> lol, sure 230NM why not? I'll just hook my car up to the X axis and pop the clutch
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[02:51:50] <Valen> (though that'd net me 400+nm of pooowah! lol)
[02:52:11] <skunkworks> are you dividing by the screw?
[02:52:28] <Valen> how do you mean?
[02:52:36] <Valen> converting the torque into linear force?
[02:52:40] <skunkworks> right
[02:52:53] <Valen> i believe so
[02:53:25] <Valen> i have a formula for it, before i mention it do you have one?
[02:53:51] <Valen> I ran the same numbers through a web caluclator and came out with the same answer in reverse
[02:54:02] <skunkworks> no - I am just throwing things out there
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[02:55:21] <Valen> ((2*pi * motor torque) / lead in meters) * efficency
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[02:57:53] <skunkworks> so - in linuxcnc terms - you would have an accelleration of 9800mm/s^2 for 1G - in english - it would be 385in/s^2 (if I am remembering my maths..)
[02:58:19] <Valen> so i'm getting 261244
[02:58:26] <Valen> I think at the moment i'm running something like 500
[02:58:49] <Valen> this is at the peak torque of the (servo) motor
[02:58:59] <Valen> so i was figuring to get about half of this
[02:59:06] <Valen> but still its feeling way too high
[02:59:26] <Valen> I'm trying to determine the gear ratio to trade off acceleration vs top speed
[03:02:36] <r00t4rd3d> i got 12.04 LTS running with a rtai kernel :D
[03:02:44] <Valen> handy
[03:02:46] <skunkworks> I doubt if cradek machine was approaching 1g and it was thumping the floor.
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[03:05:24] <skunkworks> r00t4rd3d: http://imagebin.org/244707
[03:09:38] <Valen> urgh unity interface
[03:09:47] <Valen> I vote 12.04 moves to xfce for the base
[03:10:16] <Valen> hows it compare with 10.04 skunkworks?
[03:12:25] <Connor> I Really hate the Unity Desktop manager...
[03:12:31] <Connor> or whatever they're using now..
[03:12:49] <Connor> Truth be told.. I don't even use the stock one on 10.04 on my main machine...
[03:13:31] <Connor> I run something called Avant Window Manager..
[03:13:47] <Connor> err.. Avant Windows Navigator..
[03:16:03] <Valen> haven't heard of it
[03:16:35] <Connor> https://launchpad.net/awn/
[03:16:44] <Valen> thats just a dock not a window manager though isnt it?
[03:16:59] <Valen> though i spose being called window manager one would hope lol
[03:17:07] <Valen> bah
[03:17:18] <Valen> window navigator, that'll learn me to read stuff
[03:17:20] <Connor> Runs on top of GNOME.
[03:17:34] <Valen> unity replaces gnome
[03:17:46] <Valen> you need to add gnome to 12.04 and then its gnome 3 or something
[03:18:00] <Connor> Yea. I've not went to 12.04
[03:18:09] <Connor> probably wont on my main machine..
[03:18:17] <Valen> i have it on my desktop, you can hack it back to a gnome2 alike thing
[03:18:41] <Connor> Might try it on a virtual machine. :)
[03:18:50] <Valen> heres a question, if i know the acceleration how do i calculate how fast it could cut a circle of a set size
[03:19:08] <Valen> the only reason i don't use xfce for my main desktop is lack of the vfs
[03:19:38] <Connor> vfs the file system ?
[03:19:44] <Valen> virtual file system
[03:20:14] <Valen> ie i can whack sftp://[email protected] into nautilus and it'll let me browse the folders on a remote machine via ssh
[03:20:25] <Valen> i know i can do it all on the command line, but thats just so handy
[03:20:34] <Valen> and it integrates with gedit and such
[03:21:32] <Connor> What's IPM for your cut ?
[03:21:41] <Valen> thats what I'm trying to work out
[03:21:52] <Valen> given acceleration and diam of circle, what would the max IPM be
[03:22:04] <Valen> (well what is the time taken, but still)
[03:22:09] <Connor> Ahh.
[03:22:26] <Valen> its disturbinly close to my orbital mechanics classes
[03:22:33] <Valen> finally a use for my degree lol
[03:23:03] <Connor> No clue.. I know Pi would be involved. :)
[03:23:27] <Valen> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_period#Small_body_orbiting_a_central_body and solve it all for acceleration rather than G ;->
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[03:27:47] <Valen> bah acceleration = v^2 / R
[03:28:00] <Valen> i really should have done circular motion in high school lol
[03:30:04] <pcw_home> You will often find that the motor and ballscrew rotational inertia is the main limit on acceleration
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[03:30:17] <Valen> thats what I figured too
[03:30:33] <Valen> We were planning on doing rotating ball nuts to try to compensate for that
[03:30:51] <Valen> it looks like I will need to put the screw inertia into this to get somewhere near right
[03:31:22] <Valen> thanks for the heads up though pcw_home i had forgotten that in this calculation
[03:31:49] <Valen> do you think rotating nuts would help reduce cyclical errors in ballscrews?
[03:32:45] <pcw_home> I dont know
[03:33:32] <Valen> I was mainly thinking things like the bend in the screws for cheap rolled ballscrews and the like
[03:33:59] <pcw_home> what pitch/gearing are you using?
[03:34:33] <Valen> I was planning on 4:1 with 5mm lead
[03:35:57] <Valen> hmm, trying to determine that cutting velocity
[03:36:10] <pcw_home> motor max speed?
[03:36:23] <Valen> 3300 continious rating
[03:36:42] <Valen> with a 10mm radius (20mm diam) circle and 26G of acceleration i get a feed rate of 1.6 meters a minute
[03:38:03] <Valen> hah, .04 seconds
[03:38:43] <pcw_home> 1/4 3300 with some good (30% or so) margin is 600 so 10 RPS = 50 mm/s or 120 IPM so fairly slow
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[03:40:05] <Valen> yes, I am trying to work out gear ratios for acceleration and top speed
[03:40:44] <Valen> we want to cut gears for wooden clocks and profile small wooden things so acceleration is a primary factor
[03:41:34] <Valen> 1:1 i get 6G of acceleration with 2 motors
[03:41:43] <Valen> top speed of 16 meters a minute
[03:41:59] <Valen> 629 ipm
[03:42:23] <Valen> and a cutting speed of .8 meters per minute on a 20mm diamiter circle
[03:42:33] <Valen> thats still ~13 circles per second
[03:42:55] <Valen> so probably max achievable would be around half or less of that
[03:43:17] <pcw_home> I suspect that will be harder than you think
[03:43:20] <Valen> thats neglecting rotating inertia
[03:43:59] <Valen> this i know lol, I am just trying to find the mistakes in the maths
[03:44:02] <Valen> i know its wrong
[03:44:04] <Valen> by lots
[03:44:07] <Valen> and lots lol
[03:44:33] <pcw_home> you can figure out the bare motor acceleration from the motor specs
[03:45:35] <Valen> inertia of the screw should be easy enough to come across too
[03:47:02] <pcw_home> 1-->1 = 250 mm/sec at 3000 RPM so you have to get there in 25 ms for 1G
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[03:48:37] <pcw_home> That is pushing the motor pretty hard ~ 3000 RPM in 1/2 turn!
[03:49:40] <Valen> stick 20A into it with a low inertia motor one would presume it'd be designed for it
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[03:49:51] <Valen> the acceleration on those pick n place machines must be insane
[03:50:17] <Valen> its feeling like the acceleration due to static inertia is going to be dwarfed by the rotational inertia of the system
[03:50:33] <pcw_home> Yes but the head it pretty light, and fancier ones use linear motors
[03:50:45] <Valen> rather
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[03:51:19] <Valen> pcw_home: don't misunderstand, I'm not spouting these numbers saying I'm going to hit them, i'm spouting them in shock and horror at how wrong i must be ;->
[03:51:35] <pcw_home> :-)
[03:53:23] <Valen> gut feel think 230nm motors are sufficent for this?
[03:53:25] <Valen> peak
[03:54:10] <Valen> it feels low, but without going to mag motors i don't think i'm going to get better torque per amp anywhere
[03:54:45] <pcw_home> 230 NM is an enormous amount of torque (170 ft lbs)
[03:54:50] <Valen> bah
[03:54:54] <Valen> i keep mixing that unit
[03:54:58] <Valen> 230 ozin
[03:55:27] <Valen> i try to keep everything SI but its hard when nothing is rated in it ;->
[03:55:36] <pcw_home> thats a lot different...
[03:55:41] <Valen> rather
[03:55:45] <Valen> ~2NM
[03:56:52] <pcw_home> Is that peak?
[03:56:56] <Valen> yes
[03:57:08] <Valen> http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23-m-dc-servo-motor/skewed-servo-dual-shaft-3 is the motor
[03:57:20] <Valen> I'm trying to size it to fit mesa drives ;->
[03:58:07] <Valen> hmm http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema-34-dc-servo-motor/nema34-1125ozin-dual-shaft-servo-motor is around twice the oz-in/amp
[03:58:56] <Valen> 2x the price and 4x the weight though ;->
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[04:00:44] <pcw_home> first does sound fairly small (150W) second more like 700W = 1 HP
[04:00:46] <pcw_home> how big and heavy is your machine?
[04:01:06] <Valen> work area is ~1.2 meters to a side
[04:01:25] <Valen> looks like the gantry XYZ is around 50-70kg
[04:01:51] <pcw_home> I suspect the second motor or one in between would be better
[04:02:25] <Valen> I was trying to match the motor to the drives
[04:02:44] <pcw_home> which drives?
[04:02:45] <Valen> the 20A current limit is a little limiting
[04:02:54] <Valen> whats the big mesa one again?
[04:03:10] <pcw_home> 7I29
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[04:04:20] <pcw_home> We have been considering doing it in 2 oz copper (we have some other new drives with 2 oz)
[04:04:22] <pcw_home> and making a lower voltage 35 or 40A version
[04:05:35] <pcw_home> also a sserial drive is on the way that could drive the bigger motor
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[04:30:44] <Valen> looks like the interweb is back
[04:31:08] <Valen> would you need to drop the voltage?
[04:31:42] <Valen> most of the difficulty is in the support electronics, parralleling a few fets and adding a fan to the heat sink would be nice pcw_home
[04:35:48] <Valen> see how easy that was ;->
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[06:03:50] <r00t4rd3d> hmm when the configuration selector comes up on first run, what I pick for tb6560?
[06:03:58] <r00t4rd3d> its been so long i forgot
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[06:16:09] <diginet> I have a question: is there any material which is comparable to cemented carbide, but which could realistically be casted/shaped/formed/sintered at home? (I don't have equipment right now, but I'm planning on acquiring some in the near future)
[06:19:26] <mrsun> ceramic? :P
[06:20:02] <diginet> I guess so
[06:20:31] <mrsun> dont know the process, materials etc to get it to hold together for cutting but :P
[06:20:37] <Valen> use carbide and grind it?
[06:20:52] <diginet> Valen: I imagine that's expensive :P
[06:21:05] <mrsun> diginet, just buy inserts? :P
[06:21:06] <Valen> carbide blanks are actually suprisingly cheap
[06:21:12] <diginet> really? huh
[06:21:28] <mrsun> ye carbide isnt that expensive in its raw form
[06:21:31] <diginet> well. . .I need a lot, the shape is an octahedron about 8" wide
[06:21:41] <diginet> how much do you think that would cost?
[06:21:43] <mrsun> oh :P
[06:21:46] <Valen> ok, i think you might need to start from the beginning
[06:21:49] <diginet> hahah
[06:21:51] <mrsun> whyyyy ? :P
[06:21:55] <Valen> http://www.usacarbide.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1723
[06:22:09] <diginet> well, I'm trying to build a split sphere press
[06:22:38] <mrsun> making diamonds ?
[06:22:47] <Valen> 1"x1.5" bar $72
[06:23:04] <diginet> yeah, tha'ts one of the thing they're used for, but I'm not planning on making diamonds, lol
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[06:23:23] <mrsun> making black holes ?
[06:23:26] <Valen> I was thinking of a way of making diamond
[06:23:31] <diginet> hah!
[06:23:42] <Valen> everybody tries to do it with straight pressure and keeping the temp down
[06:23:47] <diginet> Valen: CVD is in theory better, but if I were going to, I like HPHT better
[06:24:00] <Valen> I figured make a steel sphere ~1 meter across or more
[06:24:08] <Valen> fill it full of carbon
[06:24:10] <diginet> it's very hard to get good quality on CVD without it being either polycrystal/dog slow
[06:24:16] <Valen> then cool the absolute crap out of the outside
[06:24:29] <diginet> wouldn't work
[06:24:30] <Valen> then blast the inside with electricity to heat it up
[06:24:45] <Valen> build up some pressure and temperature and your good
[06:24:55] <diginet> there is a sort of similar process which uses pinch to generate momentarily high pressure
[06:25:02] <diginet> but it's hardly predictable
[06:25:44] <Valen> you only need ~4K at around 10GPA
[06:25:56] <diginet> less actually
[06:26:07] <diginet> 1500 C at 5-7 GPa
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[06:26:23] <Valen> i was planning on doing it through a straight phase diagram and make massive ass crystals
[06:26:25] <diginet> anyway, the little octahedron goes inside a steel sphere which in turn goes inside a chamber filled with hydraulic oil which you heat up, which then exerts force on the ball
[06:26:26] <Valen> thats nothing
[06:27:15] <Valen> the 1 million PSI is a little irritating i'll grant you
[06:27:25] <diginet> yeah, I could build/machine all the parts, save for the octahedron
[06:27:44] <Valen> got CnC mill?
[06:27:59] <diginet> no, but I know someone who does
[06:28:10] <Valen> I'd just look at grinding the carbide
[06:28:19] <Valen> is there any paticular reason you need carbide?
[06:28:36] <diginet> dunno actually, all the patents and papers use WC-Co
[06:28:45] <diginet> but I can't imagine why other things wouldn't work
[06:29:00] <Valen> steel?
[06:29:15] <diginet> nope, way too low compressive strength
[06:30:49] <diginet> do you think boron carbide would work? that might be moderately easier to make
[06:31:05] <Valen> theres a question for ya, assuming you made an environment that you put a chunk of graphite in and heat and pressured it into diamond, how would you get the diamond out without it turning back to carbon?
[06:31:21] <diginet> you use a catalyst
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[06:31:52] <diginet> transition metals (usually Fe and Co) are added to the container with the graphite, which prevents the forming sp2 bons
[06:31:56] <Valen> i don't know enough materials science for your specific materials choice, but if you can get something harder than it you can shape it by subtractive processes
[06:32:16] <Valen> wouldn't that taint the diamond?
[06:32:17] <diginet> boron carbide should be able to be ground with diamond
[06:32:29] <Valen> I have milled glass with a diamond cutter
[06:32:31] <Valen> very slow
[06:32:44] <Valen> though how much of that was us being nervous i don't know
[06:32:45] <diginet> nope, you create a temperature gradient and the diamond forms at the smaller end
[06:33:03] <Valen> see I was trying to make a huge diamond
[06:33:19] <Valen> think basketball
[06:33:24] <diginet> the only way to do that would be with CVD
[06:33:36] <Valen> (if you're going to dream might as well do it big ;->)
[06:33:39] <diginet> no way to do it with HPHT, you'd need a press the size of an office building
[06:33:42] <diginet> haha
[06:34:28] <Valen> I wonder how it'd go if you slowly heated it into diamond, then dropped the pressure rapidly
[06:34:33] <Valen> (think boom)
[06:34:41] <diginet> I just wonder why WC-Co was specifically mandated though
[06:34:56] <diginet> maybe it's just common, relatively speaking
[06:34:57] <Valen> wc-co tungsten carbide?
[06:35:04] <diginet> cemented carbide, yes
[06:35:10] <diginet> with cobalt as a binder
[06:35:23] <Valen> (i never got that far into the periodic table lol)
[06:35:39] <Valen> but grinding carbide is often done with a regular grinding stone
[06:35:50] <Valen> it eats the stone but eh
[06:36:07] <diginet> so it isn't that hard to do?
[06:37:49] <diginet> because, the shape, anyway, of the invidual pieces is very simple (just four triangular prisms which form an octahedron)
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[06:39:13] <Loetmichel> mornin'
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[06:41:56] <diginet> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eun2c9dElc
[06:41:58] <Valen> it'd be fiddly to do
[06:42:08] <Valen> to get the dimensions accurate
[06:42:09] <diginet> there's a good video overview of the process, you can see the diea
[06:42:15] <diginet> *dies
[06:42:18] <diginet> yeah
[06:42:50] <Valen> (fiddly because the tool shrinks as you cut with it)
[06:43:57] <diginet> hmm, I see
[06:44:09] <Valen> got a budget to do this with?
[06:44:33] <diginet> yeah, a couple thousand dollars, but less is better obviously
[06:44:48] <Valen> are all the bits identical?
[06:44:51] <diginet> like I said, I could source everything besides the inner carbide dies
[06:44:54] <diginet> I think so
[06:44:55] <Valen> also how good do they have to be?
[06:45:06] <Valen> i mean tollerence wise
[06:45:13] <diginet> like the porosity?
[06:45:15] <diginet> pretty good
[06:45:18] <Valen> dimensionally
[06:45:21] <diginet> oh
[06:45:37] <diginet> not too exact, I mean, not horrible, but not like absolutely perfect
[06:50:06] <Valen> I'd look at roughing them out with a stone
[06:50:09] <Valen> (or 4)
[06:50:16] <Valen> then finishing it off with a diamond tool
[06:50:43] <diginet> I see, thanks for the advice
[06:51:05] <Valen> don't take it as gospel
[06:51:12] <diginet> ideally, I'd just form them in the shape they need to be, but things are never that simple, are they? lol
[06:51:30] <Valen> that kinda thing often winds up being more expensive for a short run
[06:51:45] <Valen> how physically big were the pieces?
[06:52:53] <Valen> thats what I liked about my carbon reactor system too, if you did it right, there would be no need to add external pressure, just a hunk of carbon inside a welded sphere of steel
[06:53:01] <diginet> I think about 8 inches
[06:53:02] <Valen> heat the center of it up and cool the outside
[06:53:15] <Valen> each bit is 8 inches (x something) in size?
[06:53:17] <diginet> that wouldn't work though, it wouldn't be able to generate enough pressure
[06:53:23] <diginet> no, the whole octahedron is
[06:53:32] <Valen> so how big would each bit be ?
[06:53:33] <diginet> they'd be about 4" across
[06:53:43] <Valen> cmon 3 dimensions
[06:53:50] <Valen> or a cubic volume at least ;->
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[06:54:34] <diginet> oh um, 4x4x5.6 inches
[06:54:42] <Valen> each bit?
[06:54:42] <diginet> right triangular prism
[06:54:50] <Valen> those are some large bits of carbide
[06:54:54] <diginet> yeah, 5.6 is the diagonal
[06:54:59] <diginet> yeah, not kidding, thus the expense
[06:55:22] <Valen> so what are you making anyway?
[06:55:39] <Valen> I wonder if straight cobalt would suffice
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[06:55:55] <diginet> straight cobalt? nowhere near enough compressive strength
[06:55:58] <Valen> there was a guy on here morphic i think who dealt with that, gets cast to shape then machined
[06:56:11] <diginet> I'm trying to make some cubic boron nitride crystals
[06:56:12] <Valen> its pretty hard stuff is all i was thinking
[06:56:22] <Valen> where do i know CBN from
[06:56:33] <Valen> they coat tools in it dont they?
[06:57:12] <diginet> it's an abrasive
[06:57:18] <diginet> and yeah, I think so
[06:57:26] <diginet> it's hard to get macroscopic crystals of though
[06:58:10] <Valen> anything in paticular you want to do with said crystals?
[06:58:27] <diginet> not in particular, I'm interested in boron chemistry
[06:58:48] <Valen> have you read the chemistry blog "things i wont work with
[06:58:54] <Valen> i believe boron is on it ;->
[06:58:57] <diginet> yes, I have
[06:59:01] <Valen> might be berillium i was thinking of lol
[06:59:08] <diginet> yeah you're thinking of that
[06:59:15] <diginet> Berryliosis is scary
[07:00:27] <Valen> nasty
[07:00:37] <diginet> yeah, Boron though is fine
[07:01:57] <diginet> anyway, the question remains: is there anything with the compressive strength of at round that of WC-Co, that can be shaped at home?
[07:02:04] <Valen> could you perhaps make it out of smaller chunks?
[07:02:24] <diginet> hmm
[07:02:31] <Valen> chould make it easier
[07:02:41] <diginet> perhaps, but that might screw up the pressure transmission
[07:02:50] <Valen> things of high compressive strength are generally going to be hard
[07:03:38] <diginet> yeah :(
[07:04:38] <Valen> I wonder if you could cheat somehow
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[07:04:47] <Valen> do a piston style vice instead
[07:05:04] <diginet> sitll doesn't avoid the need for an ultra-hard material for the vice :(
[07:05:46] <Valen> you could perhaps use less of it
[07:05:55] <Valen> don't fret the super hard thing too much
[07:06:15] <Valen> that just adds time and means most places won't talk to you
[07:06:36] <Valen> I'm happy to try milling anything ;->
[07:06:44] <diginet> heh
[07:07:47] <diginet> so I mean, what superhard materials are there? I just know of carbides
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[07:08:20] <Valen> i dont know
[07:08:27] <Valen> saphire is around
[07:08:32] <Valen> more expensive though
[07:08:38] <diginet> hmmm
[07:08:39] <Valen> but harder
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[07:08:43] <diginet> really?
[07:08:52] <Valen> pretty sure
[07:08:54] <diginet> because sapphire is really cheap actually
[07:09:02] <diginet> the manufacturing process is quite simple
[07:09:13] <Valen> 1" x 1.5" round of carbide is $75
[07:09:36] <diginet> yeah
[07:09:37] <Valen> saphire that gets you 2x ~20mmx4mm
[07:09:41] <Jymmm> I'll sell it to ya for $40
[07:09:50] <diginet> Jymmm: the carbide?
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[07:09:56] <Jymmm> sure
[07:10:10] <Valen> diginet: just so you know Jymmm is a troll ;-P
[07:10:40] <diginet> Valen: oh, sigh :(
[07:10:58] * Valen is waiting for Jymmm to drop the other shoe
[07:11:07] <Jymmm> And Valen is a pain in the ass. Now that we have the name calling out of the way...
[07:11:14] <Valen> (its 50/50 if he is trolling or has a useful link)
[07:12:09] <Jymmm> If I had, do you think I'd share it with you NOW?
[07:12:41] <Valen> you could share it with diginet
[07:12:48] <diginet> Jymmm: I'm the one looking to buy it
[07:12:49] <Valen> i'm the one trolling you ;-P
[07:12:49] <Jymmm> And you know I DO pull rabbits out of my hat too!
[07:13:02] <Valen> thats not where i thaught you pulled stuff from ;-P
[07:13:52] <Jymmm> only your lips would know for sure.
[07:14:27] <Jymmm> you being my best turd!
[07:16:44] <diginet> welp, anyway
[07:17:11] <Jymmm> But, I misread and thought it said CARBON not CARBIDE, with the mention of sapphire and all. But I do have a source for various carbon; pellet; solid, etc.
[07:17:39] <diginet> I wonder if silicon carbide might work
[07:17:42] <Jymmm> 50LB and up
[07:18:09] <diginet> "ure silicon carbide can also be prepared by the thermal decomposition of a polymer, poly(methylsilyne), under an inert atmosphere at low temperatures. Relative to the CVD process, the pyrolysis method is advantageous because the polymer can be formed into various shapes prior to thermalization into the ceramic."
[07:18:11] <diginet> from wikipedia
[07:18:31] <Valen> its pretty hard stuff
[07:18:36] <Valen> though your adding another process
[07:19:35] <diginet> yeah, but the CNC my friend has definitely wouldn't work with carbide, so I'd need to either pay for that, or figure a way to make it myself anyway
[07:20:21] <Valen> bah pussy! says I
[07:20:35] <Valen> (cnc friend that is)
[07:21:11] <Jymmm> zirconia
[07:21:20] <diginet> yeah, I know, but he let's me use it for free so I can't really complain
[07:21:28] <diginet> Jymmm: that's a possibility
[07:21:39] <diginet> is zirconia easy to form in particular shapes?
[07:22:09] <Jymmm> fiik, could be vut like diamond though
[07:22:12] <Jymmm> cut
[07:22:37] <Valen> he wants something soft he can put in the microwave that turns into almost diamond
[07:23:25] <diginet> hehe, that would be nice
[07:23:47] <diginet> but no, I understand there is some difficulty, it's just WC-Co is too far in that direction to DIY
[07:24:50] <Jymmm> In a nutshell, what are you wanting to accomplish diginet?
[07:25:18] <diginet> Jymmm: trying to make a BARS apparatus/split sphere press to experiment with cubic boron nitride
[07:26:15] <Jymmm> BARS?
[07:26:27] <diginet> it's a russian acronym (the russians originally developed it)
[07:26:35] <Jymmm> and?
[07:26:37] <diginet> http://www.tungaloy.co.jp/us/index.php that is apparently where a lot of the carbide is sourced from
[07:26:51] <diginet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BARS_apparatus
[07:27:05] <diginet> often used for diamond, but I'm not interested in diamonds
[07:27:13] <diginet> nevertheless, the machine is the same thing
[07:27:32] <Jymmm> define "experiment" ?
[07:28:19] <diginet> try to make fairly large monocrystals
[07:28:41] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/eLGO9ZS.png
[07:28:50] <r00t4rd3d> that was rather painful.
[07:28:51] <Jymmm> diginet: you told me what you are trying to do, but NOT what you are trying to accomplish as the end goal?
[07:29:24] <diginet> that IS the end goal, I'm interested in boron chemistry
[07:29:55] <r00t4rd3d> now to remaster a livecd
[07:30:05] <Jymmm> you want to make boron coffee mugs, or what?
[07:31:18] <diginet> no, I would study the effects of high pressure/high temperature on boron nitride
[07:31:31] <Jymmm> for what purpose?
[07:31:50] <r00t4rd3d> SCIENCE!
[07:32:07] <diginet> because? I'm doing undergraduate research
[07:32:33] <Jymmm> for your dissertation ?
[07:33:04] <diginet> maybe, we'll see where it goes
[07:33:46] <Jymmm> Fuck man, for a college boy, JOOSE ARES STOOOOPID! You could have just said that from the beginning =)
[07:34:01] <diginet> JOOSE?
[07:34:33] <Jymmm> Thought you might have been trying for world domination or something, not some piece of paper =)
[07:35:11] <Jymmm> Now I'm bored, come back when you have a world domination plan =)
[07:35:25] <diginet> that was dump
[07:35:26] <diginet> *dumb
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[07:38:13] <Jymmm> Do you have the shop/gear/etc to build a BARS?
[07:39:22] <diginet> yes, everything minus the interior carbide dies
[07:39:33] <diginet> well, I don't personally, but I know people who do
[07:39:48] <Jymmm> 2500c ?
[07:40:14] <diginet> that's the easy part
[07:40:22] <diginet> graphite electrode, very cheap
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[07:41:30] <Jymmm> did you see the footnote on the wiki page - pressless BARS
[07:42:31] <diginet> yes, I have that paper, why?
[07:44:18] <Jymmm> http://www-sbras.nsc.ru/eng/sbras/copan/welcome.html
[07:44:31] <Jymmm> http://www-sbras.nsc.ru/eng/sbras/copan/uiggm_main.html
[07:45:41] <Jymmm> Interesting http://dbpedia.org/page/BARS_apparatus
[07:46:08] <Jymmm> oh, damn. nm
[07:46:33] <Jymmm> I'd just talk to them first, see what worked/didn't.
[07:46:48] <diginet> good idea
[07:47:02] <diginet> well anyway, off to bed for now, thanks for everyone's help here
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[07:47:31] <Jymmm> Valen: you trolled him off you troll!
[07:47:52] <Valen> my trolling is mere baiting in comparison to yours
[07:48:30] <Jymmm> that's even worse, you are just instigating
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[07:51:47] <Jymmm> Well, got a pair of 3T jack stands today and it's suppose to be on the 70F come Th/Fr
[07:52:12] <Jymmm> Either I drop the fuel tank or pull out the angle grinder
[07:52:26] <Jymmm> d) ALL THE ABOVE
[07:52:46] <Valen> angle grind the fuel tank
[07:53:05] <Valen> this was you wasn't it Jymmm http://cheezburger.com/7012190720
[07:53:15] <Jymmm> access hatch to get t the top of the fuel tank so I can replace the IN-TAK fuel pump.
[07:53:55] <Jymmm> Oh no, I'm at 24ft starks with a 4" angle grinder.
[07:53:59] <Jymmm> sparks
[07:55:24] <Jymmm> Valen: I'm like $250 short of being a professional pyro
[07:55:32] sliptonic is now known as sliptonic_away
[07:55:59] <Jymmm> professional pyromainiac that is.
[07:56:33] <Jymmm> $250 is the fee for the ATF permit
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[07:59:08] <DJ9DJ> moin
[07:59:31] <Jymmm> Valen: I just can't pass the visual magazine inspection as I rent, not own.
[07:59:48] <Valen> pitch it to land lord as an improvement
[07:59:54] <Jymmm> DJ9DJ: Howdy
[08:00:01] <DJ9DJ> hi Jymmm :)
[08:00:13] <Jymmm> Valen: HA! Haven't seen/heard from him in years
[08:00:34] <Valen> stop paying rent, i give it 2 weeks and you will be in contact
[08:01:00] <Jymmm> Valen: LOL, it took him one time a YEAR to cash a rent check once.
[08:30:27] <archivist> this is how it should be done http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/ProppedUp.htm
[08:33:21] <Jymmm> archivist: Nah, this is the "proper" way to do it... http://i54.tinypic.com/2r5rfcw.jpg
[08:33:59] <archivist> that is not under a car!
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[08:49:59] <archivist> this with the ramps at an angle is....http://brian.hoover.net.au/blog/personal/redneck-repairs
[08:52:20] <Jymmm> I'm more curious how he got the front end in the truck bed
[08:54:17] <Jymmm> Well, picked up 3T jack stands today. I'm STILL debating dropping the fuel tank.
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[09:00:13] <archivist> drive up the ramps till front wheels off the ramps, then jack rear, move ramps to prop up
[09:00:42] <Jymmm> ah
[09:01:32] <Jymmm> Well, wait.... If he jacks up the rear, wouldn't the front roll fwd?
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[09:03:10] <archivist> one side at a time as the handbrake should hold the other, also use wheel chocks
[09:04:44] <archivist> this is the jack and pack do a small bit at a time method, but the packing needs to be good and the ramps / whatever need to be level to avoid slides
[09:06:52] <archivist> I wish I had taken pictures of some of my lifts
[09:07:00] <Jymmm> jack and PACK???
[09:08:05] <archivist> the rocks in some of those pictures are packing
[09:08:13] <Jymmm> ah
[09:09:35] <archivist> obviously a badly shaped rock is stupid, but the right sized wood packing block can be very safe
[09:12:17] <archivist> http://www.hydra-jacks.com/images/P3-jack.png
[09:13:52] <Jymmm> Ah, distribution of weight
[09:14:59] <archivist> they mention a bit more http://www.hydra-capsule.com/safety/jacks.htm
[09:17:23] <Jymmm> Heh, I've had the bottom issue a few times... Summer day and MC kick stands sinks into the asphalt. Have to carry a piece of wood to give a larger surface area =)
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[09:25:46] <Jymmm> I love how they jack up and move entire houses
[09:30:33] <archivist> not just houses http://raleighskyline.com/content/2012/04/01/weekend-move-brings-durhams-suntrust-tower-to-raleigh/
[09:32:17] <Jymmm> 130ft building?! fuck me
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[09:34:07] <Jymmm> I wonder how much it costed?
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[09:52:26] <tandoori> so then, is it okay to use notebook to drive a cnc mill?
[09:52:51] <archivist> 99% chance no no no no
[09:52:59] <tandoori> why not
[09:53:17] <tandoori> even with that balancer thingie
[09:53:34] <archivist> balancer?
[09:53:42] <tandoori> to prevent missed steps
[09:54:09] <Jymmm> Laptops use power Management, usually time slicing to "conserve" power, even with connected to mains.
[09:54:19] <archivist> notebooks/laptops have power management that ruin realtime
[09:54:47] <archivist> I have no idea what you think a balancer is
[09:54:53] <Jymmm> It's built into the circuitry, so even disabling it in BIOS doesn't really disable all of it.
[09:55:34] <Jymmm> Do something, sleep and conserve power, do something, sleep, etc
[09:55:51] <Jymmm> It's these "sleep" cycles that make in bad for "Real Time"
[10:03:35] <tandoori> oh im sorry, lol i was reading something else
[10:05:48] <tandoori> archivist: its called a smoothstepper
[10:06:36] <archivist> oh that rubbish is for mach
[10:06:57] <tandoori> and what is WRONG with mach3?
[10:07:05] <tandoori> the mill im getting comes with mach 3 you punk
[10:07:06] <tandoori> :-P
[10:07:11] <archivist> do you want a list
[10:07:15] <Jymmm> 1) That's USB (linuxcnc doens't support USB in that way). 2) It's Mach3/4 (windows) thing.
[10:07:16] <tandoori> sure
[10:07:47] <tandoori> oh i see, you lot haet windows stuff
[10:07:54] <archivist> it fails to properly cut threads on a lathe
[10:08:16] <archivist> it cannot properly handle realtime on windows
[10:11:15] <Jymmm> tandoori: the channel you are in is called LINUXcnc, what do you think?!
[10:12:37] <tandoori> http://www.twintec.it/colibri.htm#colibri_controller
[10:13:26] <tandoori> Jymmm: i know, i was being facetious
[10:14:45] <tandoori> that controller is apparently like 1000 times better than a smooth stepper
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[10:15:57] <Jymmm> tandoori: You keep mentioning USB Based controllers, linuxcnc does NOT support USB in that respect.
[10:16:11] <tandoori> fine
[10:20:51] <DJ9DJ> usb is not realtime capable
[10:22:35] <tandoori> okay, so i will use an old compy to control the mill
[10:22:41] <tandoori> ...running knoppix
[10:22:56] <tandoori> ooh or kanotix
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[10:31:10] <tandoori> hiya theos
[10:31:27] <tandoori> Jymmm: happy now? :-P
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[10:43:42] <theos> hey tandoori
[10:43:51] <tandoori> hey you
[10:44:00] <tandoori> you are just everywhere arent you?
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[10:44:10] <tandoori> and whats up with your connection
[10:44:15] <theos> thats what god is. everywhere!
[10:44:20] <tandoori> lord
[10:44:28] <tandoori> here we go, lol
[10:44:51] <tandoori> and where were you when i needed you in the other channel? lol
[10:45:05] <Tecan> /sbin/iptables -A FORWARD -i eth0 -o eth1 -m state --state ESTABLISHED,RELATED -j ACCEPT
[10:45:11] <theos> monkeys broke my telephone cable :/ just fixed it
[10:45:13] <theos> :D
[10:46:48] <tandoori> lol nice
[10:46:57] <tandoori> wait, telephone? you are on dialup?
[10:49:14] <Jymmm> I'd be more worried about the wild monkeys on the loose than if he's on dial up
[10:49:32] <theos> i have been making plans to kill those monkeys
[10:50:01] <theos> i have adsl. its through the telephone line :3
[10:50:22] <Jymmm> Nah, just have them fly around and scare the neighbors away.
[10:50:48] <theos> good idea. i was thinking of either killing them or training them to steal things for me
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[11:23:40] <Jymmm> theos: Train them to steal from you, THEN kill you.
[11:24:40] <theos> nou
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[12:43:28] <Tecan> whats that single pivoting chain called ?
[12:43:33] <Tecan> flat chain
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[12:45:19] <Tecan> they use it for vents in buildings and doors
[12:50:00] <Tecan> none of these http://www.lulusoso.com/upload/20110711/925_Silver_Chains_Sterling_Silver_Machine_made.jpg
[12:55:19] <jthornton> I almost think I know what you mean but not quite
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[12:57:19] <Tecan> Hobby and Craft Sash Chain
[12:57:31] <Tecan> http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31RXiLaPv6L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
[12:57:47] <jthornton> ah that stuff
[12:58:23] <jthornton> I don't know what it is called either
[12:58:26] <Tecan> guess its not single pivot
[12:58:33] <Tecan> lol
[12:59:09] <jthornton> sash and flat link chain
[12:59:18] <jthornton> according to McMaster Carr
[12:59:29] <Tecan> so flatlink sash chain
[12:59:33] <jthornton> http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-chain/=l9cw1l
[12:59:58] <Tecan> not for lifting :)
[13:00:20] <Tecan> work great for a mill though
[13:00:26] <Tecan> metal gear
[13:01:44] <Tecan> its tougher than it looks i had atleast 120 lbs on it
[13:03:00] <jthornton> what are you doing with it?
[13:03:35] <Tecan> was thinking of trying to work with that rather than buying rack or would it be better to use bicycle chain ?
[13:03:56] <jthornton> for a router?
[13:03:59] <Tecan> probably a gantry
[13:04:01] <Tecan> ya
[13:04:13] <Tecan> maybe alum
[13:04:32] <jthornton> I've seen chain used before
[13:06:45] <Tecan> i got a few dirtbike chains
[13:08:03] <Tecan> the front sprocket is small enough to work well with a nema 36
[13:08:37] <jthornton> so long as your not concerned with accuracy your fine
[13:09:05] <Tecan> there actually is not a whole lot of backlash or slop side to side
[13:09:26] <Tecan> just weld it to something
[13:11:08] <Tecan> would weight on the nemas wear them out quicker ?
[13:12:13] <Tecan> double shaft would be the fix for that
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[15:21:21] <frallzor> ahoyhoy
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[15:28:31] <JT-Shop> hola
[15:28:39] <frallzor> hola senorita
[15:28:58] <JT-Shop> lol
[15:32:59] <frallzor> I have a dilemma, get myself some nice tools or nicer gift for the girlfriend on her birthday =P
[15:34:09] <Jymmm> frallzor: how many points do you have?
[15:34:20] <frallzor> lots and lots
[15:34:40] <Jymmm> Ok, so none.... Get the better gift.
[15:34:56] * frallzor wasnt being sarcastic =P
[15:35:21] <frallzor> still, would feel like a dick if getting tools instead =P
[15:35:25] <Jymmm> Neither was I, cause if you THINK you have "lots and lots" you got jack shit and only think you do.
[15:35:55] <Jymmm> You haven't deducted for the ones you didn't know you lost.
[15:36:30] <frallzor> thats a point
[15:37:06] <Jymmm> That's 10 point loss per incident MINIMUM.
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[15:53:14] <klemen_> i would like to compile a simple code to to test the epp parralel port, bu i can not compile the outb. I get the "undefined reference to `outb'" even though i added the -O gcc command at the and of cimpiler instructions. Any idea whyat else i can do (i have #Include <asm/io.h>, <unistd.h>).
[15:54:45] <klemen_> this is the code: http://pico-systems.com/codes/pcisetup.c
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[16:04:12] <mrsun> frallzor, get her present THEN buy tools
[16:04:17] <mrsun> its all in the order you do stuff :P
[16:04:37] <DJ9DJ> hrhr
[16:04:47] <mrsun> buying tools then gift is a big nono :P
[16:04:52] <mrsun> atleast if she knows :P
[16:05:52] <frallzor> havent decided what to get yet, that is the issue!
[16:06:29] <Jymmm> how much to spend? Her age? Her interests?
[16:07:47] * anonimasu yawns
[16:07:50] <frallzor> about $2-300 tops, 25 so its "special", likes.... sports =P
[16:08:00] <anonimasu> id turning big things is like watching grass grow.
[16:08:33] <mrsun> gah "special"
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[16:08:41] <mrsun> 25 is the special age when you give up on life ;P
[16:08:46] <mrsun> so .. a casket ?
[16:08:50] <Jymmm> frallzor: Get her a striper =)
[16:09:16] <frallzor> a huge fish? =P
[16:09:28] <Jymmm> That's up to you
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[16:09:36] <frallzor> 91B4p10HekjnVX2j47bwiK10PLmFUJDbEsYZToPDt+8N6L0Ot0YLCYh0bus5ZSylp1zMcqE69IC76keVXlk5rcgzlkNqFI1ifP/AHrOcGRruIQqRmNx3CzE5Vy219AXJHoTUnCX2S5hk/vrTqzdcxO4G5U2wJ6NFNNdCab2XSeUn0mPnTq3CT8JHqKThbguWLd0DOGzAkRGdWZCdtJyg+ppbYlE1fMo84Ptt9KZn0SEuAbx7zXb7g6eEGANthuN/I1Vv2hsA6Et7ZfnP5Uziu1WacltQCI1J2jlljrUtFroRxLimQ5UYMRMnkPIdTWTxl53JILHNvEwekxVlf4lyVEHoiyPcyRTDcSuH4mbU7lj0qWWUty0w1II9jUrAcQa2ZG2/mCNmW
[16:09:36] <frallzor> dmH11B0Jqwv94CJZ9f4iev5UqyzaayDz+IfZnSPM0uirNX2Y42t1PEAHzMWG+7EiDuVAIHlAq6xdjvXW3smrOZgBQNvfb3rEWsPcI8IOq6suo5gfCZGq1Ks4G4JKl3UyAUYidWABBIich0nmKTnrQ0vk3AtlmAmc4G48ISNFI2AgAxypjiPC7N601lra91IJI8BDDZgbcGf61rLrxe/blu8eMjLLAXBkEHQgaiCNRvqBXT2murbCMbe7+IqQZGrA+KDEjloGG9ZbLsYxXZm9av3LtsW2sAEJlbLkQZe7t5d8wMLrvJbyFLhu0boLCWmhbNkBjGhY5W25xkWANyTWpPbFioVRaVRofGQdtRJH8OsyADVHijZd0dbdpQoyC3nbJpLAZViGg
[16:09:36] <frallzor> wY5lOuloVmv4FxI3UXOPEPiJhoJ8S5g0gaQJGk6cqnNeLNlHi6nUBemigCfKsJc4jcRn7vLaBzMe7zSOZSd9IKxp8PvTtjtFetaK4Mee+gH9TTblVIVRbtnpWEQKI3+9j+XU1Ia7B/wCD8vzrzq32/uj4lRvfWPap2H/SHbPx2yvKUIMDyFYpSXaL0XnbDs7+uWRlgX7Y
[16:09:37] <frallzor> wtf
[16:09:49] <frallzor> gg there mirc
[16:09:53] <DJ9DJ> nice picture :D
[16:10:11] <DJ9DJ> its like reading the matrix
[16:10:19] <DJ9DJ> ^^
[16:10:19] <frallzor> had a proper link, mirc shredded it
[16:10:21] <frallzor> somehow
[16:10:54] <Jymmm> Uh huh, blame the client
[16:10:56] <mrsun> a very long link :P
[16:11:48] <frallzor> Jymmm did you mean striper as in huge fish, or stripper? =P
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[16:20:00] <anonimasu> partswapping time -_-
[16:20:08] <anonimasu> and it's just op1 of 2 :S
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[16:22:12] <Jymmm> frallzor: Some guy in a g-string.
[16:22:26] <Jymmm> frallzor: Who's the ugly sucker on the water?
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[16:24:04] <anonimasu> 9 minutes for the first one and probably 5 for the second one..
[16:24:05] <frallzor> who? what?
[16:24:07] <frallzor> ask google =P
[16:24:43] <Jymmm> frallzor: Why ask google, YOUR the one that flooded the channel with the photo
[16:25:27] * anonimasu ponders setting the rapid speed to the default
[16:26:09] <Jymmm> ramming speed?
[16:26:50] <anonimasu> that is why they are at 2.5m/min instead of 5 right now
[16:28:20] <anonimasu> the stupid cleareance my cam program sets is scary enough with that speed, but atleast you can catch errors...
[16:29:18] <Jymmm> Aren't those user' pre-set tolerances?
[16:29:41] <anonimasu> well, if it's going to crash it'll crash with 2.5mm or 5mm
[16:29:56] <Jymmm> why is it crashing do you know?
[16:30:05] <anonimasu> yeah, operator error.
[16:30:17] <Jymmm> ah
[16:30:37] <Jymmm> I'd suggest a new operator then =)
[16:30:44] <anonimasu> fire myself?
[16:30:45] <anonimasu> :D
[16:30:53] <Jymmm> Heh, whatever works =)
[16:34:03] <anonimasu> usually the reason is mid program start because I stopped to tweak something, and the tool offsets goes away..
[16:34:32] <Jymmm> Then DONT DO THAT =)
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[16:34:52] <anonimasu> hehe, im learning..
[16:36:38] <Jymmm> crash and burn baby, crash and burn!
[16:37:44] <Jymmm> anonimasu: I had homed everything, or I THOUGHT I had and Z just crashed hard into table top and snapped the bit right in half =)
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[16:39:41] <Jymmm> anonimasu: sucky kybd, when you hit "home" verify that it took.
[16:39:55] <Jymmm> anonimasu: AND that you hit the right axis too
[16:40:05] <anonimasu> hehe, atleast your machine reminds me, the fanuc on mine dosent say anything it'll happily machine whatever without being homed
[16:41:09] <Jymmm> heh
[16:41:10] <anonimasu> there is a home g-code but I doubt it's set up at all, european machinebuilders dont do anything extra.
[16:41:26] <anonimasu> I have a hydraulic chuck and tailstock, but they didnt bother to add a m-code for them
[16:42:26] <anonimasu> so, instead im running through a macro and a second serial port to operate them..
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[16:44:57] <anonimasu> pretty stupid tho.
[16:45:19] <Jymmm> sounds more kludgy than stupid
[16:45:27] <Jymmm> but whatever works
[16:47:42] <Jymmm> sometimes ya just gotta macgyver it =)
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[16:50:33] <anonimasu> making a few hundred parts without a barfeed/puller sucks..
[16:51:18] <cradek> make a hook or use your parting tool to pull
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[16:54:52] <Mr_Wolfsl> Hi
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[17:00:57] <Mr_Wolfsl> When I am in world mode the Z axis take the max_linear_velocity and I would like the max_velocity of the Z axis
[17:01:08] <Mr_Wolfsl> How can I do that?
[17:02:47] <anonimasu> cradek: yep :)
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[17:12:14] <jthornton> anonimasu, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isTD6bDF_LI
[17:12:29] <jthornton> cradek, taught me how to do that
[17:20:40] <skunkworks> I learned it from watching you!
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[17:23:05] * JT-Shop wonders if I sit here long enough wondering where I put the roll of sand paper the cat will drag it to me...
[17:23:38] <JT-Shop> but I'm not completly sure he can read my mind 100% yet
[17:23:48] <skunkworks> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zz0gd3TS0LM
[17:23:52] <skunkworks> well made
[17:25:02] <Connor> skunkworks: Yea. I was looking at his video the other day.
[17:25:14] <Connor> Not sure WHY he made his own custom boards though..
[17:25:19] <skunkworks> right
[17:25:28] <skunkworks> because he could?
[17:25:29] <anonimasu> jthornton: yeah but bor steel bars of 6m length it takes more :D
[17:25:30] <skunkworks> ;)
[17:25:37] <Connor> Probably.
[17:25:54] <anonimasu> I have a bar pulling cycle in the cam program, but I need to build a pulling tool for the rear toolpost
[17:26:16] <Connor> I'm in the process of mounting my KBCC controller in my case. I need to make 2 panels to replace the drive cages which I don't need.
[17:26:28] <Connor> But, I need to get the machine up before I can do that. :)
[17:26:59] <anonimasu> but more important is the toolsetter mount :)
[17:27:03] <Connor> Need to cut them to size, and then make ventilation holes or slots.
[17:27:29] <anonimasu> I made a 3 point alignment for it to rotate the bar with the setter when I mount it inside
[17:27:48] <anonimasu> (I will make) and a thread so I can have a captive nut on the toolsetter bar.
[17:28:32] <anonimasu> then into the external plc to add up signals then into the fanuc(rap) control -_-
[17:29:04] * skunkworks hugs linuxcncn
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[17:29:08] <skunkworks> cnc
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[17:29:39] <anonimasu> I'd like to convert it, but the work involved of replacing is too much as it runs very good atm
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[17:30:23] <Connor> He said his speed controller worked with -15 to +15 so, it could do reverse.. I've not seen one like that.. the KBCC works on +15v and has a separate connector you use a switch with or relay with to reverse.
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[17:38:08] <JT-Shop> well sweeping the shop floor and listening to Roy Orbison did no good so I'm out of rational ideas
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[17:50:32] <Mr_Wolfsl> I can't understand why my velocity of my Z axis change
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[17:55:16] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
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[17:55:44] <JT-Shop> hi
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[18:01:09] <Mr_Wolfsl> hi
[18:01:16] <IchGuckLive> hi
[18:01:34] <IchGuckLive> Mr_Wolfsl: German ß0
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[19:30:27] <JT-Shop> wow the new McMaster Carr catalog has 3888 pages
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[19:37:35] <anonimasu> pcw: did you ever implement something like frequency to analog conversion on one of your boards?
[19:38:28] <anonimasu> im contemplating buying a makino with fanuc servos on it and it feeds the tacho signal from the motherboard to the servo's with a f/v conversion in hardware
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[19:54:01] <skunkworks> anonimasu, I think people have used mesa cards with analog out to the drives.... so encoder -> Mesa encoder counter -> encoder velocity -> mesa analog output -> fanuc amp
[19:54:37] <skunkworks> (I have done this to simulate a tach to a amc drive...)
[19:58:57] <cradek> Y on my big machine is also set up that way, because the actual tach has a bad spot
[19:59:08] <skunkworks> Works great
[19:59:38] <cradek> yeah, the mesa driver's high quality velocity estimation (timestamp based) is very good now
[20:00:12] <cradek> http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/real-vs-generated-tach.jpg
[20:00:31] <cradek> these are actual measurements of the mesa dac output vs the real tachometer
[20:00:41] <frallzor> blah I need something to place le mouse on now since im giving up touch =/
[20:01:08] <skunkworks> cradek, do you remember which is which?
[20:01:14] <cradek> here you can see the update per servo cycle of the simulated: http://timeguy.com/cradek-files/emc/real-vs-generated-tach-upclose.jpg
[20:01:32] <cradek> skunkworks: mayyyybe simulated is on the bottom, because that's how it is in the second photo
[20:01:39] <skunkworks> heh - cool!
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[20:14:34] <diginet> does anyone here know anything about sintered diamond?
[20:15:11] <JT-Shop> just ask your question
[20:16:45] <diginet> okay, let me make it more broad, is there any material that is even vaguely comparable to WC-Co that would be manufacturable at home? I know that's kind of vague, but I mean doesn't require HIP or anything like that
[20:18:05] <awallin> diamond grinding wheels are good for e.g. glass...
[20:19:56] <diginet> I was referring to something made of sintered diamond powder
[20:20:35] <frallzor> Ill say no
[20:22:14] <diginet> urgh that's frustrating
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[20:25:06] <paul_liebenberg> Hello, I am having a homing problem. I recently moved my machine across the shop, now on homing the x axis I get the error "limit switch inactive before start of latch move." Everything was working before the move!
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[20:25:57] <cradek> have you checked your wiring? that can be a noisy signal from the switch.
[20:26:40] <cradek> and I think you mean "Home switch inactive before start of backoff move"
[20:26:48] <cradek> so be sure to check home switch wiring, not limit switch
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[20:27:14] <paul_liebenberg> all the terminals seem to be bolted down, should I switch to sheilded wire?
[20:27:35] <JT-Shop> are you moving off the switch with a home offset?
[20:27:41] <paul_liebenberg> hoe, and limit are the same switch
[20:27:46] <cradek> tell about your home switch setup
[20:28:03] <cradek> you're not falling off the back end of it are you? it should stay engaged all the way to the end of travel
[20:28:07] <paul_liebenberg> here is my setup
[20:28:08] <paul_liebenberg> [AXIS_0]
[20:28:08] <paul_liebenberg> TYPE = LINEAR
[20:28:08] <paul_liebenberg> HOME = 0.0
[20:28:09] <paul_liebenberg> MAX_VELOCITY = 1.90002432432
[20:28:09] <paul_liebenberg> MAX_ACCELERATION = 8.0
[20:28:10] <paul_liebenberg> STEPGEN_MAXACCEL = 12.0
[20:28:11] <paul_liebenberg> SCALE = 10125.000
[20:28:11] <paul_liebenberg> FERROR = 0.05
[20:28:11] <paul_liebenberg> MIN_FERROR = 0.01
[20:28:12] <paul_liebenberg> MIN_LIMIT = -0.05
[20:28:12] <paul_liebenberg> MAX_LIMIT = 12.25
[20:28:12] <paul_liebenberg> HOME_OFFSET = -0.150000
[20:28:12] <paul_liebenberg> HOME_SEARCH_VEL = -0.450000
[20:28:26] <cradek> linuxcnc thinks you're falling off the back of the switch
[20:28:43] <cradek> sorry, I meant tell us about the mechanism
[20:28:51] <paul_liebenberg> it moves to the end of the travel, hits the limit, and does not back away
[20:30:49] <cradek> get out your scope or voltmeter or whatever and check the switch operation
[20:31:08] <cradek> it's not staying triggered
[20:32:04] <paul_liebenberg> ok, I am off to the shop! thanks!
[20:32:16] <cradek> welcome, good luck
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[20:34:50] <anonimasu> nice! seems like it's a good deal then
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[21:39:39] <paul_liebenberg> Hi, I'm back. I put a ohmmeter on the switch terminals at the breakout board, it seems to be functioning correctly?
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[21:41:17] <skunkworks> ohm meter probably isn't quick enough... You would probably want to view it in halscope.
[21:41:48] <mrsun> skunkworks, depends on how fast he switches the outputs? :P
[21:42:14] <mrsun> oh
[21:42:19] <mrsun> some dodgy home switch :P
[21:43:32] <frallzor> a jigsaw is nice when you dont wanna use your cncmachine!
[21:45:17] <paul_liebenberg> Thats, funny, I have been using a fretsaw!
[21:45:41] <paul_liebenberg> never used halscope, can you point me to a tutorial?
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[21:48:09] <skunkworks> paul_liebenberg, http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.5/html/hal/tutorial.html#sec:Tutorial-Halscope
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[21:53:48] <paul_liebenberg> Oh wow! That is a little over my head. was hoping there was a dumbed down version on youtube, but no luck. I will try and do some homework on halscope later. I might try changing out the switch and using shielded wire for now?
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[21:54:20] <cradek> changing the switch and wire will surely fix it, if you are sure you haven't changed any settings in the software
[21:54:29] <skunkworks> I think I was getting that error when I was homing too fast past this switch... http://electronicsam.com/images/KandT/homesw.jpeg
[21:56:14] <paul_liebenberg> looks similar to my switch, but it is set up so the switch is actuated by a ramp. It stops but can't really go past the switch.
[21:57:50] <mrsun> "leaded"steel would that be dangerous to your health like lead is? :)
[21:58:01] <mrsun> or is it bound to the metal and harmless? :P
[21:59:58] <paul_liebenberg> Have to thank you guys again. I really only learned enough about emc to get set up and make parts. I will try and start reading and learning a bit more. Start at the wiki?
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[22:07:45] <r00t4rd3d> best way to learn is just from messing with it
[22:08:00] <r00t4rd3d> seems horribly confusing at first
[22:08:28] <skunkworks> paul_liebenberg, the manuals are pretty darn good now
[22:10:54] <cradek> did you get it fixed?
[22:11:59] <r00t4rd3d> cradek, have you ever compiled a kernel for 12.04 with rtai ?
[22:12:19] <cradek> no, and I don't think that's currently possible
[22:12:46] <r00t4rd3d> challenge accepted.
[22:12:59] <r00t4rd3d> http://i.imgur.com/eLGO9ZS.png
[22:13:01] <cradek> so far, there's no rtai support for a 3.x kernel
[22:13:03] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: Ok.... Barney
[22:13:15] <r00t4rd3d> ive got it all working but a newer kernel
[22:13:25] <cradek> yeah, you can install our existing kernel on 12.04 just fine
[22:13:46] <cradek> you just lose support for all the new hardware etc.
[22:14:21] <cradek> seb tried this a while back and announced it worked, causing virtually no excitement :-)
[22:14:35] <Jymmm> lol
[22:14:58] <Jymmm> and no reality excitement either!
[22:15:00] <r00t4rd3d> lts for 10.04 stops in April, not that it is a big deal...
[22:15:27] <cradek> yeah
[22:16:39] <Jymmm> Has anyone ever seen a BRAND NEW electric fuel pump ever smell like gas? Factory testing maybe?
[22:16:45] <r00t4rd3d> send a email to Linus, ask him to whip us up a kernel :)
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[22:16:57] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: You do that =)
[22:17:12] <r00t4rd3d> he could probably do it in no time
[22:17:35] <r00t4rd3d> would he i think is the harder question
[22:17:35] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: for a small $3000 customization donation
[22:18:06] <frallzor> linuxCNC donations anyone? =P
[22:18:08] <r00t4rd3d> ill cut him a penquin address plate :)
[22:18:33] <Jymmm> r00t4rd3d: $30,000 donation if you want it beta quality
[22:18:49] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[22:18:53] <r00t4rd3d> Id pay a one time fee of $19.95 to make sure linuxcnc stayed updated :)
[22:19:15] <Jymmm> And you'ld get the update ONE TIME only =)
[22:19:36] <r00t4rd3d> nah i probably just pirate it
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[22:20:31] <Tom_itx> that's the spirit
[22:20:34] <Tom_itx> :(
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[22:21:02] <Jymmm> ...and a bottle of rum!
[22:21:55] <Jymmm> I got my fuel pump today, looks new, but when I sucked in it, I got a mouth full of gas vapors.
[22:21:57] <Tom_itx> amerika was built on rum
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[22:22:08] <Tom_itx> silly one you are
[22:22:11] <Jymmm> Tom_itx: Moonshine and Beer
[22:22:15] <Tom_itx> fuel pumps pump fuel
[22:22:24] <Jymmm> BRAND NEW pump
[22:22:25] <r00t4rd3d> test pump
[22:22:36] <Tom_itx> you want an untested pump?
[22:22:47] <Jymmm> Do factories test pumps with fuel ?
[22:22:55] <Tom_itx> did it taste like fuel?
[22:22:56] <r00t4rd3d> no, koolaid
[22:23:00] <Tom_itx> did it smell like fuel?
[22:23:05] <Tom_itx> it must have been fuel!
[22:23:05] <Jymmm> it's gas
[22:23:22] <Jymmm> But when I called the autoparts store, they said no.
[22:23:35] <Tom_itx> what do those kids know?
[22:24:54] <r00t4rd3d> go on the internet and complain.
[22:25:44] <r00t4rd3d> send the ceo an email with goatse attached
[22:26:32] <Jymmm> Well, would you buy a BRAND NEW coolant pump with coolant smell on it?
[22:27:13] <r00t4rd3d> most pumps are factory tested, pressure and what not, so yeah.
[22:27:52] <Jymmm> Not that I have ever seen.
[22:28:01] <r00t4rd3d> it would be dumb to test a fuel pump with anything but fuel
[22:28:27] <r00t4rd3d> real world results
[22:28:35] <Jymmm> Well, many dont test EVERY one, just sample test like 1 out of 100 or so
[22:30:22] <Tom_itx> maybe you just got that one
[22:30:33] <r00t4rd3d> maybe it was made on a friday and hung suk hoy was in a hurry and didnt clean it out good enough after testing
[22:31:43] <r00t4rd3d> or someone bought that one you have, wasnt right and brought it back
[22:32:10] <Jymmm> Then it shouldn't have been resold as NEW
[22:32:17] <r00t4rd3d> GOT U!
[22:33:29] <r00t4rd3d> they are probably sitting at the bar right now, laughing, HE HAD NO IDEA!!! LOLOLOL
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[22:35:46] <r00t4rd3d> people are like that
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[23:38:08] <Valen> http://cheezburger.com/7014766080
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