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[17:36:58] -!- logger[psha] [logger[psha][email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
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[17:46:38] <tjtr33> hello, is there work on a web interface for Hal ?
[17:46:39] <tjtr33> ( without linuxcnc , but pin states available to a browser via some server? )
[17:48:27] <skunkworks> rockhopper?
[17:49:13] <skunkworks> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Rockhopper_Web_Server
[17:49:31] <tjtr33> that uses linuxcnc and nml, this would be standalone lik 'halcmf -f ii blah" and a javascript (maybe) html page
[17:49:45] <tjtr33> halcmd
[17:51:44] <skunkworks> The server also uses the halcmd program, a part of LinuxCNC which can access and configure the HAL layer of LinuxCNC.
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[17:52:39] <tjtr33> yep, and thx skunkworks (hiya hiya), but it uses nml and requires linuxcnc. i was hoping for something lightweight
[17:52:57] <skunkworks> ah
[17:53:05] <skunkworks> might be something to start with...
[17:53:12] <tjtr33> i thought i read about a 'halweb' must'a been a dream :)
[17:54:03] <tjtr33> yeah, i like what peter(?) has done with rockhopper et al
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[17:59:25] <tjtr33> i spent 10hrs in serial comm hell. I could download all the machne parms,plc,tables,screw pitch comps files .
[17:59:35] <tjtr33> but couldnt uplaod the PLC nor the Comp files.
[17:59:42] <tjtr33> Turned out it was the dang laptop usb2serial dongle. not a bad one, not a bad cable, but it made the shield discontinuous.
[17:59:48] <tjtr33> running fine now with alligator clip from laptop usb metal frame to TNC416 control. Dang!
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[18:06:15] <tjtr33> now in CA putting a rack style atc onto a mid-size edm
http://imagebin.org/265681
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[18:11:05] <Loetmichel> sounds like a ground loop
[18:15:30] <CaptHindsight> Connor: the granite plate and table arrived <1 day after order by truck, +- 2.6um over 24" x 36"
[18:15:58] <CaptHindsight> I didn't know that MSC is also Enco
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[18:20:43] <Loetmichel> tjtr33: oh, looks like this is a channel whre i am BELOW average age, for a change ;-)
[18:21:01] <Connor> Enco is they're cheap side I think.
[18:21:51] <CaptHindsight> $151 + shipping
[18:22:21] <Connor> what was the shipping? :)
[18:22:38] <tjtr33> Loetmichel, haha i dont think I'm the median age here. But i did climb all over that machine in 36degC weather ( that was the 3rd change of clothes for that day )
[18:22:45] <CaptHindsight> 540lb for ~$120
[18:23:44] <Connor> I'll get a surface plate one day.. no need for it just yet.. and too many other things going on.
[18:24:10] <CaptHindsight> tjtr33: I was about to fabricate myself a cooling vest last week
[18:24:33] <CaptHindsight> circulate water
[18:24:57] <tjtr33> i used those silica gel things in thailand, but broke out in a rash !
[18:26:16] <tjtr33> oh well bbc sci -fi harlan ellison is over, lunch break over, bye bye
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[18:37:21] <Loetmichel> CaptHindsight: i had that a long time ago
[18:37:28] <Loetmichel> a cyloner costume
[18:38:00] <Loetmichel> 40kg glass fibre plastic and electronics/gadgets
[18:38:50] <Loetmichel> and about 20 meters ayuarium tube 4mm and a peltier/ small glow engine with propane as a genset in the backpack...
[18:38:59] <Loetmichel> aquarium
[18:39:38] <CaptHindsight> how well did it cool?
[18:39:39] <Loetmichel> you could set the desired temperature at the arm control panel and it had heated/cooled all day long...
[18:39:43] <Loetmichel> very well
[18:40:20] <Loetmichel> had about 500 watts of peltier heat transport there
[18:40:29] <Loetmichel> and about the same amount of resistance heating
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[18:40:51] <Loetmichel> funny side effect: was on a convention with it, overbooekd hotels.
[18:40:57] <Loetmichel> sylvester
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[18:41:47] <Loetmichel> so i had set the temperature to 32°c and layed down beside a park bench in the snow...
[18:41:53] <Loetmichel> waked up nex morning...
[18:42:26] <Loetmichel> finding myself in a "snow angel" .
[18:43:04] <Loetmichel> costume body had molten the snow by contact heat, and the two exhaust of the engine had made the wings ;-)
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[18:44:14] <CaptHindsight> how heavy was it?
[18:44:47] <Loetmichel> you had to get used to sleep with a starting glow engine 10 cm behind you spine every 20 minutes, though
[18:45:00] <Loetmichel> as i said above: around 40 kg
[18:46:04] <Loetmichel> or 6.3 stone if thats a more convenient unit for you ;-)
[18:46:53] <Loetmichel> the two steel chain gloves (like the ones for butchers) were 2kg each alone ;-)
[18:48:56] <Loetmichel> sadly, it was not a good idea to solder with an open flame 2cm beside a 250 grams propane can :-(
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[18:49:49] <Loetmichel> was not much left of the costume afterwards and i had some 2 weeks of hospital
[18:50:08] <Loetmichel> s/can/tank
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[18:51:23] <Loetmichel> s/propane/butane
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[18:55:48] <zeehero> uh, hello everyone
[18:56:19] <cradek> hey
[18:56:43] <zeehero> got suggested to come here from the Reprap irc, figured this is the next logical step for me
[18:56:57] <zeehero> how much of the knowledge from building 3D printers would carry over to CNC?
[18:57:09] <WalterN> most of it?
[18:57:28] <zeehero> that's good
[18:57:29] <cradek> can you ask a more specific question?
[18:57:47] <andypugh> As far as configuring/building a machine, rather a lot. As far as making parts. meybe rather less.
[18:58:17] <zeehero> alright, well my biggest concern is obviously what is the best linear motion methods, since belts wouldn't be able to take it and leadscrews would be pretty slow
[18:58:22] <cradek> for building a machine, the addition of cutting force might throw you off until you get used to it
[18:58:22] <WalterN> and actually
[18:58:45] <cradek> what do you want to cut?
[18:58:55] <zeehero> wood and aluminum specifically
[18:58:57] <Connor> zeehero: Depends on the type of CNC device.. plasma cutter works well with belts..
[18:59:05] <WalterN> I need to look at servo motors... but I'm not sure what I need exactly, other than the servo its self and encoder
[18:59:06] <Loetmichel> zeehero: you have to get over the concept of having big forces to your moving head
[18:59:13] <andypugh> If you want to cut wood, then belts are fine. You just need bigger ones (and might want to look at the "servobelt" arrangement)
[18:59:14] <Connor> zeehero: also, size of the device..
[18:59:19] <Loetmichel> so build for stiffness, not for speed
[18:59:27] <cradek> well, for wood you need speed
[18:59:38] <cradek> it's probably hard or impossible to make one machine that's good at aluminum and wood both
[18:59:55] <zeehero> alright, then I'd guess that wood would be a better place to start and learn
[19:00:00] <Loetmichel> cradek: depends on what you call "good
[19:00:01] <Loetmichel> "
[19:00:12] <cradek> I'd never try to build from scratch a machine to cut aluminum. that's what the used market of cnc machines is for
[19:00:15] <Connor> zeehero: How big you wanting it ?
[19:00:47] <zeehero> I'm used to build areas of 5" by 5", but from what I've seen and read most folks say not to even bother with stuff that small, so I'm gonna guess at... 2'x2'?
[19:01:00] <cradek> machines that are good at milling aluminum start around one ton
[19:01:10] * Loetmichel had build several wooden(!) machines that can cope with aluminium and even steel, but only very thin cuts
[19:01:11] <andypugh> cradek: HAve you seen those videos from the guy making aluminium parts on his wood-framed machine?
[19:01:20] <cradek> a multi-ton machine like a bridgeport series 1 will not cut a 2' square
[19:01:29] <Connor> cradek: Most wood router machines can cut thin sheet alum just fine..
[19:01:55] <Connor> again, what you want to use the machine for makes a big difference.
[19:01:55] <cradek> andypugh: no, have a link?
[19:02:26] <cradek> Connor: yes, even a table saw can do that, but that's hardly milling
[19:02:32] <cradek> agreed
[19:02:55] <Connor> no. but a table saw cut do cut outs and designs via CNC. :)
[19:03:05] <andypugh> cradek:
http://youtu.be/7nZNuvH7q1I
[19:03:06] <Tecan> (7nZNuvH7q1I) "Homemade CNC, Deep pocketing milling on aluminium part, the VIP project, episode #9" by "laurent parti" is "Tech" - Length: 0:06:58
[19:03:07] <zeehero> I understand, I don't have a lot of experience but I do intend to build at least a basic CNC to learn how to maintain the machine myself. Since AL seems to be rather intense, I do desire to machine wood for various decorative things
[19:03:22] <CaptHindsight> did I ever show you my CNC table saw? :)
[19:03:22] <Connor> zeehero:
http://www.ivdc.com/cnc/cnc13.JPG My machine. 12" x 18" work envelope.
[19:03:27] <zeehero> would a square foot be reasonable to build for a beginner hobbyist with experience building machines?
[19:03:35] <Connor> 36" x 25" footprint
[19:03:51] <Jymmm> too small Connor
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[19:04:14] <Jymmm> those are axis travel dimensions, no margin for brackets, overhangs, etc
[19:04:33] <Jymmm> clamps, etc
[19:05:40] <andypugh> zeehero: Aluminium is relatively easy to machine. Mould steel is a little more challengine.
[19:06:05] <Connor> Jymmm: What are you talking about ?
[19:06:17] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/MC/jumpjetkopterteile1.avi <- 10mm aluminium tube 1mm wall, wooden CNC router ;-)
[19:06:52] <Jymmm> Connor: Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, Cheeseburger, chips, chips, no coke, pepsi.
[19:06:53] <andypugh> zeehero: Have you seen the Mechmate? Something like that might do what you want.
[19:07:03] <zeehero> andypugh: Mechmate, I'll check that out
[19:07:25] <Connor> I like the size of my little machine. it's a good size. sits in my office.
[19:08:04] <zeehero> Oh, I've got a whole 2 car garage that I can use (nobody parks in it)
[19:08:06] <archivist> I made a small foot print machine, I had to extend it
[19:09:11] <andypugh> I converted an existing machine. It is happy to cut steel, iron, depleted uranium...
[19:09:32] <Connor> zeehero: 24" x 36" is nice size.. again.. depends on what you want to use it for..
[19:09:46] <Loetmichel> zeehero: the machine in the video could travel 4' by 3.4' by 1/2' ...
[19:10:23] <Loetmichel> aehm, 5 feet , not 4
[19:10:43] <Loetmichel> it was this machine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYhICZEsCA
[19:10:43] <Tecan> (-iYhICZEsCA) "18_04_2009 uebergabe an neuen Besitzer und arbeiter der Modellbaufima :-(" by "Loetmichel" is "People" - Length: 0:03:54
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[19:10:58] <Loetmichel> but sadly the new owner took half a year to destroy it completely
[19:11:18] <andypugh> zeehero: For a fun project, how about one of these?
http://youtu.be/hPE3Qr-ECtQ
[19:11:19] <Tecan> (hPE3Qr-ECtQ) "LinuxCNC hexapod parallel robot 6 axis rapids" by "Parallel robots" is "Tech" - Length: 0:00:31
[19:11:28] <Connor> Loetmichel: Destroyed it within a 1/2 year? WTF did they do to it ?
[19:11:57] <Loetmichel> one y stepperdriver failed
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[19:12:07] <zeehero> this is a very dumb question, but what's holding the board down in Loetmichel's video?
[19:12:21] <Connor> Fireball 90 isn't a bad little kti.. I would just get the kit and outfit it with Keling steppers and controllers though.
[19:12:22] <Loetmichel> so they removed the stepper and relied on the other side plus the timing belt in the back
[19:12:58] <Connor> Loetmichel: So, let me guess, it racked the gantry and stuff?
[19:12:59] <Loetmichel> ... after some months these belt failed for being used more than planed (was just for sync)
[19:13:16] <Loetmichel> and THEN the gantry was pulled apart
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[19:13:48] <Loetmichel> which video?
[19:13:56] <Loetmichel> hmm
[19:14:03] <zeehero> the 18_04_2009 one
[19:14:07] <Loetmichel> doesent matter, both videos: spax screws
[19:14:35] <andypugh> An eye-opener for me was, when designing some production-line equipment "No, you will need to make it stronger than that, or the operators will deliberately break it to get off shift early"
[19:15:03] <Connor> andypugh: Are you freaking kidding me? *boggle*
[19:15:56] <jmasseo> i believe it
[19:16:04] <Loetmichel> andypugh: these macshine wasnt made for selling
[19:16:16] <Loetmichel> it was made for ME working on it
[19:16:50] <Loetmichel> but the boss selled the whole (model plane) company... and i had no intention to move 600km across germany to follow the company
[19:17:26] <Connor> where is a good place to get T-slot alumn for spoil board ?
[19:17:59] <Loetmichel> and the new owner was ... lets call it "a bit cheap". he still owes me a months salary... so he didnt call me when the stepper driver broke
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[19:28:54] <zeehero> alright, how strong do the motors have to be, for the Repraps I've built, I've only ever had to get to about 60ish oz-in, but looking at one person's table they had 425 oz-in motors, but it was a free-standing table design with a large work area so I'm unsure of what's a reasonable motor strength to table size ratio to go for
[19:32:18] <andypugh> It depends a lot on gear ratios.
[19:33:14] <andypugh> My lathe/mill is OK with NEMA 23 motors and 5mm pitch ballcrews and a 4:1 belt ratio. But it isn't exaclty fast.
[19:34:01] <andypugh> The Z-motor is rated 3Nm. I refuse to convert into units that confuse mass with force.
[19:35:12] <andypugh> With servos the motor itself can spin faster, so the motor torque can be lower. Don't reckon on getting much more than 300rpm out of a stepper.
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[19:38:02] <Nebukadneza> heho
[19:38:43] <Loetmichel> andypugh: at least not with the "regular" stepper chips which can only cope with 40V and below ;-)
[19:41:39] <Nebukadneza> i have a very dumb question, probably about cnc in general
[19:42:48] <Nebukadneza> i was thinking of building a cnc hotwire cutter using a very simple design: i would mount 4 stepper motors on a ceiling, and roll up rope on their axis (using some small arbor?), then roll the other end of the rope up on another stepper motor, and hang my hotwire bow at in the middle of the rope on both sides
[19:43:02] <Nebukadneza> this would enable this machine to cut wing segments from styrofoam ...
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[19:44:23] <Nebukadneza> just that i don't understand - as the calculation of coordinates is vastly different in this case compared to a, say, flatbed cnc router ... is this a standard usecase for software like linuxcnc? as in, can you at some point conveniently enter some kind of equation to calculate the coordinate transformation to motor output values?
[19:46:39] <archivist> I think you want a specific setup a user made for that
[19:47:41] <Nebukadneza> a specific setup a user made?
[19:49:46] <cradek> aside from the issue of whether your design will mechanically work (I don't know), linuxcnc can use custom kinematics for setups like that
[19:49:57] <archivist> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ystnchUu9ws
[19:49:59] <cradek> like for robots, hexapods, etc
[19:50:03] <Tecan> (ystnchUu9ws) "CNC Hot wire cutter 4 axis" by "serafeima" is "Education" - Length: 0:02:43
[19:51:14] <Nebukadneza> there already is a mechanical setup thats similar ... i only worry about electronics and software ;)
[19:52:34] <Nebukadneza> but okay, then its time to start diving into the manuals ;) thanks
[19:52:48] <andypugh> Nebukadneza: There is a LinuxCNC config for such a machine here:
http://code.google.com/p/emc2hotwinch/source/browse/trunk/XYUV/hotwinch.ini?r=51
[19:53:09] <Nebukadneza> uhhh
[19:53:09] <Nebukadneza> nice
[19:53:13] <andypugh> Main web page here:
http://www.cnc-hotwire.de
[19:54:00] <andypugh> I suspect it is even in the right language?
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[19:54:11] <Nebukadneza> wonderfull, exactly what i want
[19:54:13] <Nebukadneza> yes ;)
[19:54:36] <skunkworks> Nebukadneza,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMo19ivradQ&feature=share&list=TL5TnU60m0_cU
[19:54:37] <Tecan> (pMo19ivradQ) "emc2 Linuxcnc FoamCutting Modification xyuv Final" by "magic33de" is "Education" - Length: 0:02:14
[19:55:49] <Nebukadneza> ;)
[19:59:08] <Nebukadneza> ah, they're now using the steppers at a central position and use wire deflectors to position the rope
[19:59:09] <Nebukadneza> cool idea
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[20:24:12] <cradek> hm
[20:24:20] <Nebukadneza> mh
[20:24:31] <Nebukadneza> i guess those chinese USB6560T4 4axis boards are not well regarded, right?
[20:25:58] <archivist> they need some "care" in use
[20:26:11] <Nebukadneza> care as in?
[20:26:13] <JT-Shop> and lots of luck
[20:26:21] <archivist> oh and you mentioned USB....no useb
[20:26:26] <Nebukadneza> oh, usb is no-go?
[20:26:39] <Nebukadneza> i kinda guessed as its cheap that usb is a usb->parport converter?
[20:26:49] <archivist> no, it has poor latency for cnc
[20:27:08] <Nebukadneza> uh ... and parport is really better?
[20:27:12] <archivist> yes
[20:27:17] <Nebukadneza> wow, wouldn't have thought
[20:27:19] <archivist> real parport not a usb one
[20:27:29] <Nebukadneza> mh
[20:27:33] <Nebukadneza> that on the other hand is a problem
[20:28:57] <Loetmichel> Nebukadneza: usb has a "packet round trip of about one second worst case
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[20:29:05] <Loetmichel> not very "realtimey"
[20:29:13] <Nebukadneza> mh, wow oO
[20:29:21] <Nebukadneza> so you guys buy old used laptops for cncing?
[20:29:41] <cradek> desktops are much better
[20:29:53] <archivist> 99% do not use laptops because of power issues
[20:29:57] <Loetmichel> laptops can be uses
[20:29:59] <Loetmichel> d
[20:30:09] <cradek> only if very lucky
[20:30:09] <Nebukadneza> ok
[20:30:31] <Loetmichel> but most have issues with powersaving interrupts that spil the realtime
[20:30:39] <Nebukadneza> (browsing stepper drivers, aaahahaaa, go go china parts: " - board might be made partly out of recycled parts, because of the environmental protection")
[20:30:48] <Nebukadneza> ok, so a old desktop...
[20:31:04] <Loetmichel> or a new one
[20:31:16] <Loetmichel> there are a few boards left with LPT
[20:31:38] <Loetmichel> and in the industrial board sector there are even boards with isa slots left
[20:31:39] <Loetmichel> ;-)
[20:31:45] <cradek> be aware parport is only one supported interface
[20:32:00] <Loetmichel> but mostly: just buy a refurbished PC from a reseller
[20:32:44] <Nebukadneza> i'd kinda guess that a minimal linux with a sleek windowmanager and linuxcnc won't need much hardware, and friends of mine have tons of old hardware i could gather for this ;)
[20:33:02] <Nebukadneza> so in chinaspeek: "use old parts, because of environmental protection" ... uh, or something like that
[20:33:14] <Nebukadneza> and i should start browsing and reading up about motors
[20:34:06] <DJ9DJ> gn8
[20:35:00] <Loetmichel> have just bought two of these:
http://www.itsco.de/computer/ibm/lenovo_pcs/pc_lenovo_thinkcentre_m57_intel_core_2_duo_e4500_2x_22_ghz_6072_i4_8726_0.htm for surfstatons in the company
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[20:35:15] <Loetmichel> should work fine for a LinuxCNC-PC ;-)
[20:35:22] <Nebukadneza> hehe, looks good
[20:38:01] <Loetmichel> or just buy a mini-itx board und burys it INSIDE the mill
[20:38:06] <Loetmichel> do that sometimes...
[20:38:17] <Loetmichel> (work in progress)->
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[20:38:48] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=11648
[20:38:55] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13143
[20:39:07] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13131
[20:39:13] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13149
[20:39:30] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13083
[20:39:31] <Loetmichel> :-)
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[20:40:28] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=13107&g2_imageViewsIndex=1
[20:40:35] <Loetmichel> (last one)
[20:41:06] <Nebukadneza> always depends on the usecase i'd say
[20:41:13] <Nebukadneza> this will be my first cnc project ever, so success is not guaranteed
[20:41:18] <Nebukadneza> thus i'd like to keep the cost low
[20:41:33] <Loetmichel> right
[20:41:41] <Loetmichel> so use any PC you can get for cheap
[20:41:44] <archivist> dont worry you can fix parts with the cnc :)
[20:41:57] <Nebukadneza> heck, i'm not even sure whether i want a hotwire cutter, or a flatbed router to produce templates for hotwire cutting ;)
[20:42:09] <Loetmichel> i would say: at least 2ghz single core ore better, 1gb ram minium and a small disk
[20:42:40] <Loetmichel> the hotwire cutter hanging from the ceiling is documented somewhre in the net
[20:42:41] <archivist> or you can 5 axis mill the form from solid
[20:42:51] <Loetmichel> let me look in my bookmarks, just a moment
[20:42:53] <Nebukadneza> yeah, exactly that one
[20:42:58] <Nebukadneza> someone posted it earlier
[20:43:07] <Loetmichel> ah, ok
[20:43:28] <Loetmichel> have seen that live, a friend of mine build it
[20:43:28] <Nebukadneza> well, compared to a flatbed router its use is a little limited
[20:43:33] <Nebukadneza> uhhh
[20:43:36] <Nebukadneza> mh
[20:43:53] <Nebukadneza> the thread in the rc-network states there are almost 100 versions of it
[20:44:04] <Loetmichel> one of the versions ;-)
[20:44:17] <Nebukadneza> maybe i should just see if theres someone nearby and exchange crates of beer for wings? :)
[20:44:27] <Loetmichel> hrhr
[20:44:57] <Loetmichel> or you build a flatbed router which can converted to a hotwire cutter
[20:45:16] <Nebukadneza> mh
[20:45:17] <Loetmichel> shouldnt be SO challenging
[20:45:17] <Nebukadneza> how so?
[20:45:36] <Loetmichel> just needs two y axis and a detacheable gantry
[20:45:36] <Nebukadneza> but i learnt that when attempting something new, never try something extraordinary
[20:46:14] <Loetmichel> that may be a wise suggestion
[20:46:17] <Loetmichel> :-)
[20:46:26] <Nebukadneza> learnt that the hard way with my last flying wing build ... :)
[20:47:01] <Nebukadneza> so probably a flatbed router
[20:47:03] <archivist> most flying is instant kit creations istnt it :)
[20:47:15] <Nebukadneza> that helps building the cnc hotwire then :)
[20:47:16] <Loetmichel> hmmm, i started with quadrocopter by buiolding one entirely made oc carbon fibre
[20:47:26] <Nebukadneza> hehe ;)
[20:47:31] <Loetmichel> do thet count as "extraordinary"?
[20:47:44] <Loetmichel> does that
[20:47:53] <Nebukadneza> no
[20:47:59] <Nebukadneza> i also build copters, but on a budget
[20:48:21] <Loetmichel> i am back to making them out of square aluminium tube
[20:48:25] <Nebukadneza> yeah
[20:48:32] <Nebukadneza> 10x10x1mm square alu, a piece of GF for the center
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[20:48:40] <Loetmichel> ... just WAY cheaper than carbon, and not even heavier ;-)
[20:48:47] <Nebukadneza> keda-model el cheapo motors (even hacker is heavier!) and naze32 ;)
[20:48:59] <Loetmichel> 15mm suare tube, aluminium center
[20:49:00] <Nebukadneza> and easier on the motors ... bends away on crash
[20:49:14] <Loetmichel> http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12997
[20:49:26] <Loetmichel> ... needs a CNC mill to build, though
[20:49:34] <Nebukadneza> huge ;)
[20:49:43] <Nebukadneza> http://pics.kanojo.de/quad_build2/
[20:50:24] <Nebukadneza> very simple, yet totally fun ;)
[20:50:55] <Loetmichel> <- can do small, also ... ->
http://www.cyrom.org/palbum/main.php?g2_itemId=12037
[20:53:06] <Loetmichel> my last winged model was a motorized airfish
[20:53:21] <Loetmichel> ... and that was about 10 years ago ;-)
[20:53:42] <Loetmichel> ... i think i have to learn flying winged models from scratch now ;-)
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[20:55:25] <Nebukadneza> mhmm
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[20:58:17] <Nebukadneza> from scratch? why?
[21:00:37] <andypugh> Loetmichel: Isn't an airfish technically a _finned_ model?
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[21:07:19] <Nebukadneza> mhhh
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[21:07:25] <Nebukadneza> i'm more and more leaning towards a flatbed router
[21:07:32] <Nebukadneza> i can route templates for hotwire cutting
[21:07:44] <Nebukadneza> and i could mill ribs for classical construction
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[21:14:56] <Nebukadneza> btw
[21:15:29] <Nebukadneza> what are better (aka, no luck needed) "beginner class" 4axis integrated controller+stepper-driver boards?
[21:15:33] <Nebukadneza> kits / DIY is also okay... i just cannot find anything worthwhile atm ;/
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[21:15:48] <andypugh> Marvellous:
http://film.iwmcollections.org.uk/record/index/45165/3112 (But maybe less so if you don't habitualy drive 1916 Dennis trucks, like I do)
[21:16:04] <Nebukadneza> (its kinda hard searching the way through products if you're only still trying to learn how everything plays together ;P)
[21:17:27] <andypugh> HAL is your friend, HAL is like glue for signals.
[21:20:50] <Nebukadneza> uhm
[21:20:52] <Nebukadneza> ehhh? :)
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[21:21:22] <andypugh> HAL is a part of LinuxCNC where you can route signals from anywhere, to anywhere.
[21:21:46] <andypugh> (So, if you can get them in to the PC, you can send them where they need to g)
[21:21:53] <andypugh> And vice-versa
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[21:26:35] <Nebukadneza> mh, so far so good
[21:26:49] <Nebukadneza> but how does that help me finding possible hardware sources? :)
[21:27:55] <andypugh> It means that slightly more things can be forced together if there is software in the middle.
[21:29:03] <Nebukadneza> mh, agreed ;)
[21:42:55] <sirdancealot> Nebukadneza, just got the cheapest stuff from ebay...it's pretty much DIY..;)
[21:44:03] <sirdancealot> or FIY
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[22:01:15] <Tecan> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBjfhTLq4C4
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[22:16:01] <NickParker> wooo my mill's in the garage
[22:16:20] <NickParker> 1 liter of industrial degreaser and 8 very dead rags later it's 2/3 clean
[22:17:54] <AR_> anyone ever have the problem of "drift" in an axis of their machine?
[22:18:32] <AR_> like if i'm running a pocket cycle with many small depth cut passes, i can see that my x axis slowly loses position drifting to the left
[22:19:11] <AR_> you can actually see small 'steps' on the right side of the pocket from the tool drifting left
[22:19:27] <AR_> cant tell if i'm losing steps or what... it's weird
[22:19:35] <Jp11> Something loose in the transmission
[22:19:48] <AR_> do you think maybe motor wiring?
[22:19:48] <Jp11> Servo or stepper
[22:19:53] <andypugh> Stepper or servo?
[22:19:58] <AR_> stepper
[22:20:06] <AR_> maybe bad motor
[22:20:16] <andypugh> Could be losing steps.
[22:20:28] <AR_> but it is so weird i only have drift in the x axis and it is in the negative direction only
[22:20:30] <andypugh> Are these steps deeper or steps shallower?
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[22:20:55] <AR_> what do you mean
[22:21:22] <NickParker> x axis not z andy
[22:21:30] <AR_> ^
[22:22:16] <andypugh> Is it pushing into the material or out of the material?
[22:25:09] <andypugh> I am trying to find a flat-belt step-pulley inside a V-belt pulley. (As a V-belt pulley seems to be a surprisingly cheap way to buy a big cylinder of iron)
[22:27:16] <AR_> i drew a shitty exaggerated pic
[22:27:40] <AR_> this would be a cross section of the pocket, where black is what i would want to cut, and red is what it is cutting with the drift
[22:27:42] <AR_> http://i.imgur.com/DsvAM3H.jpg
[22:27:44] <Jp11> Andypugh: what are you trying to do?
[22:28:41] <kwallace1> NickParker: I spent most of a day trying to clean the coolant tank in the foot. It smelled and looked like a septic tank. I vowed to never let it see coolant again.
[22:28:41] <Jp11> Ar_: are the steps the same size all the time
[22:29:03] <AR_> approximately yes
[22:29:07] <AR_> i havent measured precisely
[22:29:09] <NickParker> oh hey i meant to ask you
[22:29:14] <NickParker> wtf is all that liquid in the foot?
[22:29:17] <NickParker> is it just ballast?
[22:29:32] <NickParker> or actually part of the coolant system?
[22:29:52] <NickParker> mine has a bunch of stuff inside there because the holes didn't have caps on them for a while i guess
[22:29:53] <Jp11> Ar_: what is the screw:
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[22:30:09] <AR_> it's a ball screw
[22:30:23] <AR_> but belt driven from the motor
[22:30:29] <NickParker> is it preloaded?
[22:30:35] <AR_> exact same setup as the Y axis, and i dont have the problem in Y
[22:30:44] <AR_> so that's what is weird to me
[22:31:03] <Jp11> Have you checked to see if everything is tight
[22:31:29] <Jp11> Can you put an encoder on the motor?
[22:32:04] <AR_> maybe
[22:32:44] <Jp11> Use the encoder to check for a following error
[22:32:58] <andypugh> Jp11: I am trying to make a specific flat-belt pulley. With steps of 181.82, 198.25 and 214mm
[22:33:07] <kwallace1> NickParker: The chamber in the foot is for coolant. Behind the door in the back of the pedestal should have a 3 phase coolant pump that feeds a pipe that comes out above the knee way.
[22:33:34] <NickParker> hmmm.. does it matter that there's all sorts of crap in it?
[22:33:53] <Jp11> Andypugh: ah so you want the pulley as cheap stock to start with
[22:34:01] <andypugh> Indeed.
[22:34:58] <Jp11> Do you have a farmers supply in the UK
[22:36:08] <AR_> also, i ordered a set of 1-2-3 blocks on ebay and they got lost in the mail!
[22:36:12] <AR_> :(
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[22:36:33] <Jp11> Ha 123 there gone
[22:36:39] <AR_> lol
[22:37:16] <AR_> i know i can get a refund, but i feel bad for the seller
[22:37:29] <AR_> i would be pissed if i sold something and it got lost in the mail then i needed to refund the buyer
[22:37:51] <kwallace1> NickParker: I don't know. Mine stunk badly. It was water based coolant so it was rusting too. I'll be using neat oil coolant. Currently, I'm using oil with mist or brush.
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[22:40:48] <NickParker> hmm.. well I'm going to go look at mine and see if there's a reasonable way to get it out.
[22:41:02] <kwallace1> andypugh: What sized belt and material?
[22:41:10] <NickParker> It looks water based to me and in any case it's more metal than liquid i suspect
[22:41:13] <andypugh> Cast iron, 1" flat belt
[22:43:33] <kwallace1> NickParker: I was going to try a steam cleaner or pressure washer, but I had the machine in place and didn't want to move it outside again, so I used a degreaser and toilet brush.
[22:45:00] <NickParker> pressure washer would take the paint off it. Dunno if you care, but it might make it rust faster.
[22:45:06] <NickParker> i used degreaser and a lot of rags
[22:51:43] <Jp11> Andypugh: why not just mill it out of flat plate
[22:52:53] <PCW> Hey kwallace1, did you see my email?
[22:53:04] <andypugh> Jp11: 4" thick flat plate?
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[22:57:25] <NickParker> at some point i think you just call a block a block.
[22:57:28] <Jp11> Andypugh: what about 4 1" doweled together
[22:58:21] <andypugh> And where do I get 1" flat cast iron plate?
[22:58:35] <Jp11> Why cast
[23:00:04] <andypugh> https://plus.google.com/photos/108164504656404380542/albums/5889085582650378897
[23:02:20] <andypugh> One of these:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/my-new-rivett-608-a-244923/
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[23:03:28] <Jp11> Cool but I still don't understand why cast unless it for nostalgia
[23:03:50] <NickParker> what powers that lathe? and why all the belts/
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[23:04:05] <andypugh> Why else would you spend any time and money at all on one of those?
[23:04:06] <Jp11> Steam endine
[23:04:18] <skunkworks> andypugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61keidP9_Nc
[23:04:19] <Jp11> True
[23:04:32] <NickParker> if brass is tough enough you should use brass imo. steam?
[23:04:40] <NickParker> or bronze
[23:04:58] <skunkworks> that is what the acroloc has for a tool changer - the spindle goes through the tool changer disk..
[23:05:35] <NickParker> oh speaking of, where would i buy tool holders (right term?) for my shizuoka?
[23:05:45] <NickParker> I'm 95% sure it's an ST-N with a tool changer
[23:05:59] <andypugh> What tool shank is it?
[23:06:31] <NickParker> i haven't a clue.
[23:06:45] <NickParker> I can take some pictures and measure some stuff on it if you want to help figure that out
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[23:07:14] <andypugh> NickParker:
http://www.tools-n-gizmos.com/specs/Tapers.html
[23:08:07] <NickParker> i'll bookmark that and figure it out once i'm done cleaning stuff
[23:08:20] <NickParker> i won't need any for a while anyway, i have one and it'll be a bit before i want multi tool jobs
[23:08:26] <NickParker> i still have to do all sorts of electronics work
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[23:21:13] <Jp11> Andypugh: backyard metal casting
[23:21:43] <andypugh> Not much point.
[23:22:39] <Jp11> It combines the nostalgia aspect
[23:22:56] <andypugh> £40 the lot
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/3nh6qw_vccyheS13Perwa9MTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:23:42] <andypugh> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oLM693wLua_FB8juhNe26tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink was another £20
[23:23:54] <andypugh> (for the part painted red)
[23:24:56] <andypugh> This was the same price:
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cLdtkcjN06zRoSx4HVpDVtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[23:25:18] <andypugh> A friend knows this foundry guy...
[23:25:56] <Jp11> Cool
[23:26:18] <andypugh> So, I can definitely have a pulley cast pretty easily, it is just that it is likely to cost about the same as a V-pulley, and I might as well machine the real pulley as machine a pattern in that case.
[23:27:15] <Jp11> Yeah just a mater if you can get one to fit the pd you want and need
[23:28:42] <andypugh> http://medwayqualityproducts.co.uk/sites/default/files/plugin-wedgepulleys.pdf
[23:30:17] <andypugh> There are a few that would do without the pesky grooves!
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[23:42:37] <kwallace1> PCW: I just read your message, I'll give it another try. I powered up the PC mesaflashed and gave it a try. I did not power down after the flash, so it may work fine when I check it again. I'll be right back.
[23:43:35] <PCW> Yeah you need to power cycle to load the new FPGA firmware
[23:43:53] <kwallace1> Bingo!
[23:44:36] <kwallace1> Okay sorry about the newbie mistake.
[23:48:48] <kwallace1> NickParker: The ST-N has a NMTB40 tool holders, or at least mine does. They have a cylinder about 1" dia x 1" where a CAT40 pull stub would be. The tool carousel uses this cylinder to hold the tools.
[23:48:51] <kwallace1> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/00006-1a.jpg
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[23:51:17] <cradek> even though I've seen the videos, I'm surprised that works
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[23:54:28] <kwallace1> cradek: You are surprised what works?
[23:54:52] <cradek> holding the tools upside-down in those little cups and having them not fall out or fall over
[23:58:19] <NickParker> yup that looks just like my tool changer
[23:58:24] <kwallace1> The original carousel has a Geneva drive, and the tools would rock back and forth a bit at each pocket. They don't rock enough to break anything, but I went to a DC gear-motor to get smooth motion.
[23:58:30] <NickParker> also, i got the cover off and shop vac'd most of the coolant into a bucket
[23:58:52] <NickParker> I'm going to get in there with a flashlight and some sort of scraper on a stick to get all the junk out of there
[23:59:29] <NickParker> The mill just about paid for itself in entertainment just now. I had my mom hold the cover on while I took the last screw off, then she pulled it away when I said to and we saw this gooey blob.
[23:59:53] <NickParker> turns out they used a piece of cloth to seal the cover and right after we saw it it broke and spilled nasty coolant everywhere
[23:59:58] <NickParker> my mom freaked out haha
