Back
[00:01:28] <PetefromTn> mevon: Hey man do you have Home ignore limits set to yes?
[00:02:18] <PetefromTn> also do you use an index pulse to home to once the physical switch is tripped like on my machine?
[00:03:46] <PetefromTn> Is this thing on LOL?
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[01:04:38] <Tom_itx> PetefromTn, no cnc jobs to run?
[01:05:10] <PetefromTn> Nope not so far...just some small one offs and odds and ends.
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[01:10:56] <PetefromTn> Tom_itx: Have you been making anything cool lately?
[01:11:08] <jesseg> Hey, do you know if there is a metric sister to "Nema" motor size standards? I'm trying to find a DC motor size with 50mm or 49.875mm between bolts (square pattern.)
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[01:15:53] <PetefromTn> Nema 23 is 1.856 inches or 47.14...
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[01:20:08] <CaptHindsight> http://www.piclist.com/techref/io/stepper/nemasizes.htm
[01:20:46] <CaptHindsight> PetefromTn: yes for the Bolt Hole Distance
[01:21:07] <PetefromTn> CaptHindsight: yes what?
[01:21:13] <jesseg> The motor I need must be a Nema 23.75 :P
[01:21:34] <PetefromTn> Do you have a specific mount?
[01:21:34] <jesseg> it's a bit bigger than a nema 23, but way smaller than a 34
[01:21:59] <jesseg> Four holes in a square pattern, 50mm or 49.875mm between near corners
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[01:22:12] <jesseg> I'll probably have to make an adapter
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[01:22:24] <PetefromTn> Is there a circular boss area inside it?
[01:22:32] <jesseg> for centering? Yes.
[01:22:45] <jesseg> Oh. The old motor has. But the mount doesn't use it.
[01:23:09] <jesseg> I was just hoping that there was a metric equiv of standardized motor sizes like nema but metric based ;)
[01:23:39] <CaptHindsight> sounds like it's not a standard size
[01:24:07] <jesseg> It's an old German made 5.5x5 foot mylar CNC cutter thing. Made in Hamburg. The motors are 5-phase stepper motors but I want DC motors
[01:24:56] <PetefromTn> You might be able to make an adapter that turns the motor 45 degrees
[01:26:09] <jesseg> I don't know. I can see some German engineers sitting around a table saying "Hmmph. Let's make the holes 50mm apart, in a square. ya. ya. gutensize." haha
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[01:26:39] <jesseg> but yes I'll probably have to make an adapter.
[01:26:50] <PetefromTn> Can you weld up the holes and redrill them?
[01:28:25] <CaptHindsight> looks like there is a nema24
[01:28:27] <jesseg> It would probably be easier to just do like you said and make an adapter plate.
[01:28:47] <jesseg> I also need a metric shaft..
[01:28:50] <jesseg> =D
[01:30:50] <MacGalempsy> alright. the encoders are 8 wire
[01:31:03] <CaptHindsight> yeah it's a nema 24
[01:31:06] <MacGalempsy> they just used a 10 plug cable
[01:31:17] <CaptHindsight> http://www.stepperonline.com/images/drawing/drawing-24HS22-2006S.jpg
[01:31:30] <MacGalempsy> but need to run out. will catch everyone in an hour, or so
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[01:33:28] <jesseg> Hmm. Nema 24 is supposed to be 2.4 inches square.
[01:34:53] <CaptHindsight> 60mm sq = 2.362"
[01:35:11] <jesseg> Hmm.
[01:35:21] <PetefromTn> http://img.diytrade.com/cdimg/1268547/14621258/0/1283428768/Nema_24_Stepper_Motors.jpg
[01:35:27] <jesseg> thanks
[01:35:31] <PetefromTn> sounds like capn is right. Nema 24
[01:36:00] <CaptHindsight> never noticed the odd size before
[01:37:04] <jesseg> I left my calipers at my shop but the motor does seem to be 2 & 3/8 outside - which is 60.325mm -- so I'll bet you are right
[01:37:23] <CaptHindsight> jesseg: and you want to find a brushless DC equivalent?
[01:37:36] <jesseg> Brushed would be better
[01:37:42] <jesseg> but brushless would be acceptable :P
[01:39:12] <jesseg> Hmm. That nema 24 diagram shows a 10mm shaft it looks like...?
[01:39:18] <CaptHindsight> http://www.fastechcn.com/productcon.asp?id=697
[01:39:44] <jesseg> I need a 4 or 5 or maybe 6 mm shaft. (I measured it but forgot what it was, but it was an integer mm shaft.)
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[01:41:51] <jesseg> That one has 8mm shaft it looks like
[01:42:14] <PetefromTn> you can buy couplers with different sized shaft collars of course..
[01:42:38] <PetefromTn> http://www.leadshine.com/productdetail.aspx?type=products&category=easy-servo-products&productype=easy-servo-motors&series=ES-M&model=ES-M22430
[01:44:01] <jesseg> I wouldn't want to know the price on that stepper
[01:44:09] <PetefromTn> its a servo..
[01:44:16] <jesseg> It's both :-)
[01:44:28] <jesseg> At least it calls it both.
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[01:44:41] <jesseg> No reason a stepper with an encoder can't operate like a servo :)
[01:44:49] <PetefromTn> yeah sorry you are correct.
[01:44:50] <jdh> no torque
[01:45:00] <jesseg> jdh, huh?
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[01:45:17] <PetefromTn> 425 oz in in a nema 24 isn't too shabby methinks.
[01:45:33] <jdh> they have no high speed torque. They are just steppers with feedback
[01:46:15] <jesseg> Years ago I did an interesting experiment. I attached the encoder from an old inkjet printer to the back of a stepper from a laser printer (Perhaps a nema 34.)
[01:46:27] <CaptHindsight> what speed and torque do you need?
[01:46:30] <PetefromTn> Not sure the application here but its probably not too big a deal.
[01:47:07] <jesseg> Then I made a driver circuit controlled by a PIC micro to run it as a brushless DC motor. It ran great!
[01:47:35] <jesseg> No particularly outstanding speed or torque. I'm toying with the idea of just putting encoders on the steppers and using those.
[01:48:11] <PetefromTn> Is this a milling machine?
[01:48:31] <jesseg> Anyway, running the stepper as a brushless motor worked so well. I was able to program the PIC to advance the timing above a certain speed, so at low speeds it had full torque (and lots of it) and above a certain speed it actually ran at 180 degrees of advance..
[01:48:46] <jesseg> PetefromTn, more light duty than a milling machine.
[01:49:07] <PetefromTn> I'd probably just use some quality steppers then and be done with it.
[01:50:12] <jesseg> This sort of thing:
http://b.goistatic.com/data/auctions/Auction16801/Dana_ByUID/3214223.jpg
[01:50:15] <CaptHindsight> brushed DC motors are easy to find as well
[01:50:44] <CaptHindsight> flatbed cheese slicer?
[01:50:50] <jesseg> I do intend to use it for 3D milling of styrofoam
[01:50:55] <jesseg> LOL sure.
[01:51:05] <jesseg> It can cut out patterns in thin material
[01:51:07] <PetefromTn> Looks like it has zero Z..
[01:51:33] <jesseg> The head had a solenoid that would raise/lower the cutter, and a servo to set the direction
[01:51:51] <PetefromTn> is it a drag knife machine?
[01:51:57] <jesseg> yeah
[01:52:20] <jesseg> with a 0.0002 inch resolution (encoder separate from motor, but in same gear train.)
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[01:52:31] <PetefromTn> cool..you can make some cool stuff with it. I'd probably install a High speed spindle to do engraving work.
[01:52:49] <jesseg> exactly.. over a 5x5.5 foot area
[01:54:00] <jdh> that's a lotta area
[01:54:21] <jesseg> yeah
[01:55:38] <jesseg> well thanks very much for your help guys!
[01:56:11] <jesseg> At least I have a shot at a nema 24 motor.. if I can find one on ebay. It's a personal project so it can't cost big buckaroos
[01:56:20] <jesseg> but now I know what to lurk for on ebay..!
[01:56:58] <PetefromTn> Good luck dude!!
[01:57:24] <jesseg> thanks!
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[02:14:27] <kwallace> Today's fun:
http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/img_1463-1a.jpg http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/img_1464-1a.jpg http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/img_1466-1a.jpg http://wallacecompany.com/tmp/img_1468-1a.jpg
[02:16:50] <somenewguy> some people get all the fun toys
[02:17:15] <jdh> nice, have your run one?
[02:17:23] <somenewguy> glad I am notthe only one who lays out "totally temporary" electronics rigs on plywood
[02:18:01] <jdh> he didn't even splurge on real plywood!
[02:18:33] <jdh> even looks like my wiring. Assuming there are no wire labels.
[02:18:34] <somenewguy> mine is partical boardtoo
[02:18:38] <somenewguy> but reinforced of course
[02:18:56] <somenewguy> with concrete residue cause it used to be a form from when I built my grill lol
[02:19:07] <somenewguy> I like the din rail tho, adds a pro touch
[02:19:19] <jdh> yeah, could use some panduit
[02:19:36] <somenewguy> does a mid sizedmill like that havea technical name tho? looks pretty perfect for me, esp the simple drainage
[02:20:05] <kwallace> I wanted to get everything working before I committed to a real equipment box.
[02:20:07] <jdh> "tormach"
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[02:20:32] <jdh> any idea what lead time for a new tormach is?
[02:20:32] <kwallace> It's the little one, 770
[02:21:17] <jdh> new?
[02:22:01] <kwallace> I have no idea. This one was here in a week.
[02:22:34] <somenewguy> oh cool
[02:22:44] <somenewguy> only ever heard of torchmate, never actually looked at the product lines
[02:23:02] <jdh> tormach
[02:28:33] <somenewguy> wait
[02:28:35] <somenewguy> really?
[02:28:42] <somenewguy> are those two different companies
[02:28:48] <somenewguy> or have I been reading it wrong this whole timme
[02:29:13] <skunkworks_> kwallace: I forget - are you getting one of the beta lathes?
[02:29:19] <skunkworks_> * or got..
[02:29:26] <kwallace> Tormach and Torchmate are different
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[02:30:47] <kwallace> No, I don't get a lathe. It's getting wrapped up. We're working on the mill now.
[02:32:11] <skunkworks_> cool - more wizard type screens?
[02:32:26] <kwallace> Yes.
[02:32:53] <skunkworks_> Nice work! that should really help get some of the tormach userbase to linuxcnc
[02:34:52] <kwallace> I'm anxious to get what we have released, but not about some of the feedback we might get. :)
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[02:48:21] <jdh> I'd like a Tormach for work, but pretty much nothing in my job requires a mill.
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[05:06:45] <cmorley> kwallace: what do you mean about the feedback you might receive?
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[06:12:04] <MacGalempsy> hey guys
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[06:12:24] <MacGalempsy> whats happening tonight?
[06:12:47] <kwallace> cmorley: It seems every time a project is released, unexpected issues come up and since it is released those, issues need to be addressed with greater speed and care. It can be a lot less fun.
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[06:14:48] <cmorley> ahh I see. I thought you might have meant feedback on linuxcnc from mach users.
[06:16:48] <kwallace> Did you see the new toy?
[06:18:28] <kwallace> MacGalempsy: How is the Benchman coming along?
[06:18:49] <MacGalempsy> coming along well. got an idea about all major electrical.
[06:19:11] <MacGalempsy> catalogue of components, seems to be going well
[06:19:52] <MacGalempsy> still a couple of mysteries, but nothing mind boggleing yet
[06:20:45] <kwallace> Did you find what the encoders connect to?
[06:21:33] <MacGalempsy> yes. the encoders are really just 8 wires, they just used a 10wire harness to bring it to the main board
[06:21:52] <MacGalempsy> even pulled specs for them off the internet
[06:22:03] <kwallace> Did you also have tachometers?
[06:22:53] <MacGalempsy> there is lead to the tach. I will start a microsoft 1notebook to manage the project
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[06:24:16] <MacGalempsy> they are pretty heavy duty. the encoders are tamagawa incremental encoders with a resolution of 2500 c/t
[06:24:25] <MacGalempsy> 8 pole encoders
[06:25:28] <MacGalempsy> 3:6phase wire-saving type (whatever that means)
[06:26:20] <MacGalempsy> worst part of the deal is I ran out of labels for my lable maker
[06:26:28] <MacGalempsy> and the store is closed
[06:27:03] <kwallace> I was thinking differential signals as A+ A- B+ B- Z+ Z- Power Ground, but I guess not.
[06:27:52] <MacGalempsy> they have that
[06:28:14] <MacGalempsy> let me grab the book. there were two more in addition to that
[06:28:25] <MacGalempsy> wait, yeah, 8 wires
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[06:33:48] <MacGalempsy> do you know if the field power on the mesa 7i77 has to be all the same voltage?
[06:34:35] <kwallace> I have no idea, sorry.
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[06:39:37] <archivist> an open collector output just has an upper limit
[06:39:50] <kwallace> My list above was intended to have the A pair as phase one, the B pair as phase two and the Z pair index or rather quadrature with index. I Googled 6 phase and it looks like a different beast.
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[06:40:27] <MacGalempsy> I think it is 3 phase
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[06:40:52] <MacGalempsy> because on the spec sheet there is a 6phase for the model number at it is 2
[06:40:54] <MacGalempsy> oops 3
[06:43:26] <kwallace> Hmmm, the 3 or 6 phase encoder I'm looking at looks like it is analog, like a resolver.
[06:46:09] <kwallace> Well, bed time for me, good night.
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[06:50:00] <_DJ_> moin
[06:52:11] <MacGalempsy> morning
[07:01:12] <_DJ_> hi
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[09:10:51] <MacGalempsy> good morning
[09:10:58] <MacGalempsy> what a niht of wiring!
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[10:11:47] <jthornton> all running now
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[10:47:08] <jthornton> wow a new low 15.557 stone
[10:50:24] <_DJ_> hi jthornton
[10:50:39] <_DJ_> grats
[10:52:42] <jthornton> hi thanks
[10:53:57] <jthornton> been a long time since I've seen that low of gravitational attraction
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[11:14:24] <MacGalempsy> what is 15.557 stone?
[11:15:41] <jthornton> 217.8 pounds
[11:17:23] <MacGalempsy> nice, thats about what I am at
[11:17:52] <MacGalempsy> body weight, i am presuming
[11:20:27] <jthornton> aye, trying to get below 200lbs
[11:20:55] <jthornton> I was 250 for a while and didn't like it
[11:21:18] <jdh> I'm just too short for my weight.
[11:21:33] <jthornton> seems the older you get the harder it is to lose weight
[11:21:37] <jthornton> lol me too
[11:21:47] <jdh> unfortunately, all my efforts to get taller have failed.
[11:26:34] * Jymmm attaches the tractor to jdh's ankles
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[11:35:19] * archivist_herron knibbles a full fat cheese sammich with proper butter wondering what weight is
[11:35:49] <Jymmm> cheese AND butter???
[11:36:02] <Jymmm> unless grilled cheese
[11:36:45] <archivist_herron> it is uncouth to have a sammich with no butter(sufficient for the use of)
[11:36:57] <Jymmm> archivist_herron: As long as you have a sawzall to widenthe doorway, you're good!
[11:37:27] <Jymmm> Just never heard of it is all.
[11:37:33] <archivist_herron> its the days I go without food that make up for the proper food
[11:39:08] <jthornton> I eat proper food all day long, just not much of it
[11:47:43] <TekniQue> proper butter, nice
[11:48:04] <TekniQue> it can be hard to find these days
[11:48:29] <TekniQue> usually only offered wrapped in paper, no handy packages with lids
[11:49:26] <TekniQue> while the supermarket shelves have a dozen different types of synthetic yellow paste that is not butter and does not taste anything like butter
[11:58:27] <archivist_herron> I dont think real butter could be put in a spastic tub
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[12:10:02] <JT_Shop> see you guys Sunday
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[13:49:37] <mevon> hello everyone
[13:49:56] <mevon> i need help setting my limit switches seems i never get this part right
[13:50:42] <kwallace> Howdy.
[13:51:31] <mevon> hi kwal
[13:54:12] <mevon> think thats what i was looking for
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Homing_And_Limit_Switch
[13:56:24] <kwallace> I always set up separate limit and home switches for each axis. It makes for more wiring, but I would rather put in a couple more hours wiring on something I'll live with for years.
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[13:58:51] <mevon> kwallace ok maybe you got a pricey machine too... lets says it was made of cardboard and you dont really care... seems putting min max and home on the same input signal needs some special configs in the machine.ini
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[14:03:39] <mevon> I did it that way because I have 4 accessible inputs on my board
[14:04:16] <kwallace> I don't see it that way. A smaller, cheaper machine should be trivial to wire. A dual parallel port card is $15. There are more lines of HAL to type, but the logic is more straight forward and LinuxCNC reacts better when it knows where a limit or home event comes from.
[14:05:34] <mevon> but on the other hand,its supposed to work with 1 input for all the switches
[14:08:10] <mevon> and what ever switch is tripped, the outcome is the same, machine stops
[14:08:19] <mevon> except the homes
[14:08:35] <kwallace> But then the operator has more the handle to clear an event, though if the soft limits are set up properly a firm limit should not happen. I just prefer to do the wiring.
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[14:11:35] <kwallace> I feel it's best, to have home and encoder index used for homing.
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[14:13:44] <kwallace> That way the machine is homed to the same accuracy as the working accuracy.
[14:16:08] <mevon> maybe but it dosent help me solve my trouble
[14:16:24] <mevon> and maybe its not even that that gives the troubles
[14:16:35] <mevon> lokks like my switches are bouncing
[14:17:22] <mevon> i think my switches are too crappy
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[14:18:06] <mevon> anyone knows how to add more debouncing?
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[14:21:02] <mevon> ok seems the latch vel was too slow
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[14:21:48] <mevon> and when latching after home, the move put the switch in a bouncing state where it barely touches it
[14:22:53] <kwallace> You can use hardware or software (HAL) debouncing. I prefer hardware. With an oscilloscope, you should see a clean On and Off.
[14:23:16] <mevon> kwallace: thanks for the advices, I dont knowmuch about cnc and milling bots but your advices were good, i will consider on the next one I build
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[14:24:31] <kwallace> Look at low pass filters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-pass_filter
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[14:26:17] <mevon> humm no it looks like my switch is sensible to vibration where its left by the latching
[14:26:47] <mevon> maybe i shoukld add an offset?
[14:29:21] <kwallace> The filter will hold the switch state long enough for the software to react. If the switch state constantly changes, the software is always playing catch up, keeping the switch at the On/Off border.
[14:30:31] <mevon> im never using tact switch again
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[14:31:15] <mevon> the offset ensures that Im not near the llimit
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[14:32:41] <kwallace> The filter will delay the signal while the switch comes to a steady state.
[14:34:01] <mevon> well i guess if youd see it youd understand what im trying to say
[14:34:15] <mevon> it sure is the best to low pass the switch signal
[14:35:22] <mevon> but the way it was acting im pretty sure no filter can do anything about it
[14:35:23] <MacGalempsy> ahhh. a successful night. mevon you figure out the homing issue?
[14:35:30] <mevon> yup
[14:35:34] <mevon> just did
[14:35:54] <mevon> my feeble tact switches as limit switches were the culprites
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[14:36:36] <mevon> so when backing off, latching left the carriage on a critical spot where any small vibration would trip the switch back on
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[14:37:30] <mevon> i just added a home offset
[14:37:44] <mevon> so I dont stay at that spot
[14:40:04] <mevon> can anyone tell me what the "Touch Off"is for?
[14:40:44] <cradek> setting a workpiece origin or a tool offset
[14:41:18] <kwallace> A filter, debounce or offset can all do the same or similar thing.
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[15:33:12] <MacGalempsy> kwallace2: when setting up your 7i77. what did you do with the additional wires coming out of the amplifier board?
[15:34:48] <MacGalempsy> http://www.flickr.com/photos/58181938@N03/10299374625/ J2
[15:35:21] <kwallace2> MacGalempsy: I don't have a 7i77. My servo setup uses Pico's controller and amp.
[15:35:42] <MacGalempsy> so I think J2 are data feeds
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[15:37:39] <archivist> think, research,connect, or ignore if one should
[15:38:04] <archivist> rinse repeat till done and working
[15:39:12] <MacGalempsy> reading the controller manual right now.
[15:39:34] <kwallace2> J2 looks like the control I/O, analog tach in, amp enable in, current monitor out, fault out, etc.
[15:40:52] <kwallace2> I don't see anything there that looks like a data connection but I could be wrong.
[15:42:35] <MacGalempsy> i mean i/o as data
[15:43:18] <MacGalempsy> so if all those get used, then I will need another daughter card for i/0
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[15:49:19] <kwallace2> Per axis, it looks like two PC outputs, a digital out for enable, an analog out for +/- velocity command. Inputs to the PC are digital Fault and the rest are gravy. The tach comes from the tachometer mounted with the encoder and usually does go to the PC. But my set up doesn't use a tach, so add salt.
[15:49:52] <kwallace2> Oops "usually does _not_ go to the PC"
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[15:52:12] <mevon> what is the utility of microstepping?
[15:54:20] <kwallace2> Micro stepping can give you a little more resolution, resistance to harmonics, smoother motion.
[15:54:51] <MacGalempsy> well guys. I need to hit the sack
[15:55:02] <MacGalempsy> until next time!
[15:55:07] <mevon> bye
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[15:55:08] <mevon> :)
[15:55:32] <mevon> im trying to reduce the motor from stalling (not moving and making lots of noise)
[15:55:33] <archivist> mevon,
http://www.micromo.com/microstepping-myths-and-realities.aspx
[15:56:15] <archivist> if stalling then increase current and reduce the acceleration rate
[15:56:18] <mevon> so micro step is bad for tork
[15:56:23] <archivist> yes
[15:57:09] <archivist> it is good for resonance, but not much else
[15:57:40] <kwallace2> Ahh, not always. Such as half-stepping vs. micro.
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[15:58:18] <archivist> I use half step, but that is all
[15:59:50] <kwallace2> My half stepping has _half_ of the steps using one coil so less torque on those steps. Whereas if I had a micro stepper drive two coils would be active all the time.
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[16:03:20] <skunkworks_> I use half stepping at low feeds and full stepping at higher feeds :P
[16:03:52] <kwallace2> Show-off :)
[16:03:57] <skunkworks_> :)
[16:04:08] <skunkworks_> it is all hal magic
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[16:04:47] <kwallace2> Indeed, it is.
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[16:07:05] <archivist> by definition half step has a coil not energised why would a microstepping drive be different
[16:11:40] <kwallace2> Oops, that is now a recollection that I would have to research to back up. I believe it is like brushless motors where the PWM is mixed on all coils to produce, overall, a rotating field.
[16:11:59] <kwallace2> ?
[16:12:11] <pcw_home> one coil is at 0 when the other is at maximum
[16:12:53] <kwallace2> I'm also assuming four coils total.
[16:13:17] <pcw_home> but still 2 phase
[16:13:18] <archivist> if and only if the driver did a 1/4 lead,1/4 lag as half step would it be true
[16:14:03] <pcw_home> and only higher torque 1/2 of the time
[16:14:05] <archivist> most use a bipolar drive 2 coil effectively
[16:15:36] <CaptHindsight> archivist: any idea of why there is a nema 23 and 24 size for motors?
[16:15:57] <archivist> no idea, historical I suppose
[16:16:46] <archivist> probably the standards group defining existing sizes when the standard was made
[16:17:21] <archivist> often its the makers on committees
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[16:19:05] * archivist over the road looking at trojans on a pc
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[16:49:51] <IchGuckLive> hi all B)
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[16:51:09] <IchGuckLive> hi voxadam B)
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[16:54:41] <mevon> hey hi IchGuckLive
[16:54:52] <IchGuckLive> hi
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[17:05:22] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel:
[17:06:05] <IchGuckLive> is there a rubber cable thrue that can handle sub-25 to the metall case
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[17:07:25] <mevon> wtf how come I specify a position.txt and when I reload emc2 it doesnt reset the positons when the file is filled with 0?
[17:10:01] <mevon> and what is that big G54 in the 3d dispaly
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[17:12:25] <mevon> ok got it im with stupid <---------
[17:13:17] <IchGuckLive> mevon: learning by duing O.O
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[17:19:16] <mevon> yeah whats with the touch off
[17:19:33] <mevon> seems to mess up all my coordinates
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[17:27:59] <mevon> think i need to eat something now my brains are not working great
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[18:21:23] * Loetmichel has done cofiguration of the little CNC from a co-worker... was DOS-PCNC, now LinuxCNC is installed...
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[18:22:31] <Loetmichel> before: G0=F2400 on all three axis....
[18:22:42] <Loetmichel> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvRzAXTFDng
[18:23:39] <Loetmichel> ... now: x and y F18000, acceleration 5000mm/s^2, z F1800, acceleration 500mm/s^2 ;)
[18:24:02] <Loetmichel> thats evil, the machine has the tendency to wander off the PC when moving full speed a lot ;-)
[18:24:56] <Loetmichel> yes, thats no typo, the machine can move with 300mm/sec, even with 500mm/sec in test
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[19:05:35] <roh> Loetmichel: nice xy mechanics
[19:06:00] <roh> we are still searching for a affordable one for milling pcb
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[19:47:05] <zeehero> Hey guys, how's it going?
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[20:51:54] <CaptHindsight> http://buildyourcnc.com/ anyone ever buy from them?
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[20:53:10] <mevon> hey zeehero wassup
[20:53:15] <mevon> hi andypugh
[20:53:32] <andypugh> Hai
[20:54:03] <mevon> we are all blessed when your here andy
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[20:57:13] <mevon> andypugh: do you remember me?
[20:57:41] <mevon> i was the guy 1 or 2 years ago always asking about a USB controler
[20:57:50] <andypugh> The name is familair.
[20:58:17] <andypugh> But I refuse to believe I have been here that long :-)
[20:58:32] <mevon> denial
[20:58:34] <mevon> :P
[20:58:43] <mevon> but no it was earlier this year
[20:59:36] <mevon> december last year but the thing "worked" I ended up making my own firmware with a RTOS on the arduino, etc.
[21:00:00] <mevon> now there is a software that does it all it seems, with 3d printer electronics
[21:01:42] <mevon> I havent tried it yet but looks nice
http://reprap.org/wiki/CNCGcodeController
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[21:03:08] <mevon> of course its nothing like a cnc cam or anything close to emc2 but when I converted some cnc design to 3d printer gcode, i had better results then with my costum firmware
[21:04:48] <andypugh> You can run the full LinuxCNC on a Beagle Bone Black, or Raspberry Pi. The Arduino seems a bit of a dead end that way.
[21:05:35] <andypugh> I am waiting for a UDOO board, that runs Linux, but has something a lot like an Arduino (with the same pinout) on-board. SOunds like fun.
[21:07:32] <mevon> yeah but for ppl with a 3d printer / elctronics, it might be simpler. all the physics implied in cnc are not so present in 3d printers, performance are slower and its not real time but it serve well the purpous for the non initiated of linux cnc
[21:08:01] <mevon> and if you only want to "engrave" pcb
[21:09:00] <andypugh> There is room for everyone. LinuxCNC doesn't have to take over the world, we don't even make any money from it. (I can't see why we are quite to territorial about it, in fact)
[21:10:04] <_DJ_> gn8
[21:10:09] <mevon> I have got myself some nice Leonardo Arduino small and cheap (10$ each from china) and also got some MK803 android IPTV (kinda like a Raspi with more meat but no I/O) that are cheap also
[21:10:55] <CaptHindsight> somebody needs to port the radar screen from printrun to linuxcnc
http://www.buildlog.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/printrun1.jpg
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[21:11:26] <mevon> well CNC and 3d printers are like the frogs and the turtles
[21:13:02] <mevon> and will all end up as Megatron's junk...
[21:13:41] <mevon> oh mighty robot leaders
[21:13:46] * mevon bows
[21:14:50] <CaptHindsight> as a joke
[21:15:04] <mevon> hummm i hope
[21:15:58] <mevon> but i dont think robots will find a better way to reproduce themselves
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[21:17:11] <ggpwnkthx> Any admins on? I'm having an issue with registration for the forums.
[21:17:29] <ggpwnkthx> Any help would be much appreciated. :)
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[21:18:04] <CaptHindsight> ggpwnkthx: just post the issue
[21:18:23] <ggpwnkthx> I'm not getting the authorization email.
[21:18:56] <CaptHindsight> how long has it been since you registered?
[21:19:06] <ggpwnkthx> I registered yesterday.
[21:19:41] <ggpwnkthx> Might have been ealier than that, to be honest.
[21:20:47] <CaptHindsight> http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/forum/index http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/english/component/comprofiler/registers this location?
[21:22:07] <ggpwnkthx> Yep.That's the registration page I used.
[21:22:08] <andypugh> ggpwnkthx: Yeah, I can fix that for you
[21:22:18] <ggpwnkthx> Awesome. Thank you.
[21:22:31] <ggpwnkthx> I keep getting the message: "Your registration process is not yet complete! Please check again your email for further instructions that have just been resent. If you don't find the email, check your spam-box. Make sure that your email account options are not set to immediately delete spam. If that was the case, just try logging in again to receive a new instructions email."
[21:23:09] <ggpwnkthx> Following the directions does not seem to produce any email.
[21:23:13] <andypugh> Some ISPs may delete our mail, we appear to be on some balcklists (for no good reason)
[21:24:05] <CaptHindsight> might be the domain range that the mail server uses
[21:24:11] <ggpwnkthx> shared email hosting?
[21:25:11] <CaptHindsight> not sure how the linuxcnc.org is setup, but I've seen that happen
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[21:25:32] <andypugh> OK, you are registered and confirmed. Your password is your surname, all lower case. You probably want to change that
[21:26:10] <ggpwnkthx> Gotchya! Thanks.
[21:26:24] <ggpwnkthx> Looked into the blacklist issue, "Local NS list does not match Parent NS list"
[21:27:28] <ggpwnkthx> I'd definitely bug DreamHost about that.
[21:27:53] <ggpwnkthx> Anyways, thanks for the help!
[21:28:11] <mevon> andypugh: If I ever build a giant robot that can reproduce itself and take over the world, can I name him Andy in your honnor?
[21:28:17] <CaptHindsight> welcome aboard
[21:28:18] <andypugh> Sorry it is so hard. But it got to the state where JT and I were deleting 1000+ spammers a day _each_. And we were probably deleting about as many real users as we miss now because security is too high. But at least now we get to do our day-jobs.
[21:28:49] <andypugh> Andy the Android? It has a certain ring to it :-)
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[21:29:18] <mevon> right on my brother, thank you for all the help, ill be back soon
[21:29:31] <mevon> goodbye
[21:29:41] <andypugh> Goodnight
[21:30:32] mevon is now known as mevon_away
[21:31:01] <ggpwnkthx> @andy I feel your pain. I also noticed the almost obbsesive use of anti-bot systems when signing up.
[21:32:17] <CaptHindsight> spammers were hacking the wiki as well
[21:33:00] <ggpwnkthx> Have you guys thought about moving away from using Joomla?
[21:33:03] <CaptHindsight> with links to viagra and similar
[21:34:09] <ggpwnkthx> It's pretty popular these days, but has had a rather lax stance on security. Although I have my biases. (developer)
[21:34:13] <CaptHindsight> now there's a password required, and the spam stopped
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[21:35:10] <ggpwnkthx> excellent, now it's just a matter of recoverying from the backlash.
[21:35:29] <ggpwnkthx> recovering*
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[21:35:51] <CaptHindsight> there was a daily restore for w while
[21:35:59] <ggpwnkthx> Ouch.
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[21:36:27] <ggpwnkthx> Ever able to trace the souce?
[21:38:18] <CaptHindsight> not sure, but if you're trying to keep the site going with as little hands on from administrators you want to make the site easy for anyone to add to
[21:38:32] <andypugh> We were hacked in a most cunning way for a while. Everything looked fine _except_ if your browser-ID was the Hoogle bot
[21:38:41] <andypugh> (Google, that is)
[21:39:11] <CaptHindsight> the down side is people that feel that any site not locked down tight is fair game to deface with adverts for their crap for sale
[21:39:43] <andypugh> If you altered your user-agent in your browser you saw completely different content. All very clever, but I have absolutely no idea how the hacker expected to profit from it.
[21:39:56] <ggpwnkthx> @andy: wow, that sounds pretty low level [read: server side]
[21:40:36] <ggpwnkthx> as if someone was coming through from the back door, so to speak
[21:40:57] <andypugh> I had my oen private web site hacked a couple of years ago. It became, randomly, a perfectly innocuous carpet hop, with no way to buy anything. No idea what that was about either.
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[21:42:03] <CaptHindsight> too many easy to use tools for kids with too much time on their hands
[21:42:06] <andypugh> It's kind of annoying to have your stuff spoiled, and for the hacker to not even remember to add the "(3) make profit" part
[21:42:28] <ggpwnkthx> Years ago, I had an account with (i think it was StarHosting or Star something), and you could easily see and manipulate other people's via CGI because they forgot to lock that down.
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[21:42:43] <ggpwnkthx> people's files*
[21:43:26] <ggpwnkthx> It was rather disappointing to find that out.
[21:43:40] <ggpwnkthx> Dream Host seems pretty solid these days though.
[21:44:19] <ggpwnkthx> I'm assuming that's who you guys are going though, judging by the quick blacklist query I did
[21:47:27] <ggpwnkthx> Anyways, thanks for the help with registration. I don't want to step on any toes, but I'm a web developer and sys admin by trade. If you guys would like any help with anything, I'd love to contribute where I can. :)
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[22:27:22] <MacGalempsy> evening all
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[22:34:16] <draconlord> hey guys
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[22:34:54] <draconlord> iam new here and i'd like to know how to install linuxcnc on ununtu 12.04
[22:35:29] <draconlord> any thing ?
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[22:35:56] <andypugh> it can be done...
[22:36:11] <draconlord> good mind telling me how ?
[22:36:26] <andypugh> The hardest part is not LinuxCNC, it's the real-time kernael part.
[22:36:26] <draconlord> if u have time i mean :D
[22:36:58] <draconlord> yeah thats what i've been afraid of
[22:38:13] <draconlord> i doubt that if i bugged the current kernel i'd be spending the next couple weekends doing a fresh install :S
[22:39:30] <andypugh> More information that you probably want is here:
http://static.mah.priv.at/public/html/common/UnifiedBuild.html
[22:40:19] <andypugh> I think that it might be easier than that, though.
[22:40:37] <andypugh> (I haven't really been paying attention)
[22:41:02] <andypugh> What is it about 12.04 that you want?
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[22:42:35] <draconlord> all my stuff, programs, etc
[22:43:25] <draconlord> plus the ubuntu 10.4 is technically dead !
[22:43:32] <PCW> I think there was talk of making a rtai 12.04 kernel deb
[22:43:46] <Valen> 10.4 will keep running till 2015
[22:44:14] <draconlord> last time i tried it it didnt fetch any updates
[22:44:42] <draconlord> PCW any progress on such topic ?
[22:45:05] <PCW> have to ask in guru space
[22:45:12] <Valen> there may not be any updates for it to fetch?
[22:45:23] <Valen> IE it may be all up to date?
[22:45:30] <Valen> or do you mean a fresh install
[22:45:44] <draconlord> fresh install
[22:46:01] <Valen> did you get an error message?
[22:46:37] <draconlord> yes told me to update this dirtro cause its not supported anymore EOL i guess
[22:47:05] <Valen> nah
[22:47:14] <Valen> thats just ubuntu wanting you to jump to 12.04
[22:47:22] <CaptHindsight> sebs .debs should work with 12.04
[22:47:27] <Valen> the LTS releases are supported for 5 years
[22:47:41] <Valen> ignore that bit, and keep updating the system you are on
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[22:49:06] <draconlord> i luved 10.4 was my 1st experince with linux over windows now um stuck with 12.04 which is by all means bloated with crap and eye candies
[22:49:12] <CaptHindsight> the main problem with Ubuntu is dealing with all the little changes they make to almost everything
[22:49:43] <Valen> yup
[22:49:53] <Valen> you can get gnome into 12.04 mostly
[22:49:58] <andypugh> I may be in a minority here, but I don't mind Unity, other than it being different.
[22:49:59] <CaptHindsight> RTAI makes lots of changes to the kernel so lots of testing is required to find any bugs or incompatibilities
[22:50:23] <Valen> i use multiple monitors, unity sucks
[22:50:47] <PCW> Ive gotten used to unity also, doesn't bother me
[22:50:56] <draconlord> so cant linuxcnc run on any other linux distro with real-time kernel other than ubuntu ?
[22:51:26] <Valen> I hate the hoops you need to jump through to actually have multiple instances of an application running
[22:51:27] <CaptHindsight> draconlord: we use it with gentoo quite well
[22:51:49] <Valen> you can use it on anything you can get rtai running on i guess ;->
[22:52:01] <Valen> with enough work ;->
[22:52:25] <draconlord> sorry my linux background is some how limited to ubuntu
[22:53:00] <draconlord> but i dont mind the change as long as its compitable with the hardware and my program needs !
[22:53:05] <Valen> if all you want is to cut metal, put the 10.04 CD in, hit go and ignore the bit about 12.04
[22:53:08] <CaptHindsight> https://github.com/ShabbyX/RTAI/blob/master/README.INSTALL here is how to build a RTAI kernel from scratch
[22:54:53] <draconlord> checking gentoo ..
[22:55:31] <CaptHindsight> http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc/rtai-for-3.4-prerelease/ here are the debs
[22:55:43] <andypugh> draconlord: I suspect that is just a way to make your life even harder.
[22:56:14] <andypugh> I don't think anyone ever acused Gentoo of being easier than Ubuntu
[22:56:15] <CaptHindsight> 1) Install Ubuntu Precise 12.04 32-bit.
[22:56:29] <CaptHindsight> 2) Fetch and install the the "-1-rtai" debs of the Shabby/Memleak RTAI
[22:56:30] <CaptHindsight> from here:
http://highlab.com/~seb/linuxcnc/rtai-for-3.4-prerelease/
[22:56:42] <CaptHindsight> 3) Reboot to the RTAI kernel.
[22:56:55] <CaptHindsight> 4) Fetch the git repo at linuxcnc.org.
[22:57:11] <CaptHindsight> 5) Build 2.5 or master (both should work).
[22:57:28] <CaptHindsight> 6) Try it out and let us know!
[22:57:51] <draconlord> working on it
[22:58:16] <draconlord> but a noob question is there a sequence for the deb install ? =)
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[22:59:49] <andypugh> If you open the debs from Firefox I think they just get installed (after a check or two)
[23:00:34] <draconlord> nah i mean what gets installed first ?
[23:02:32] <CaptHindsight> Ubuntu Precise 12.04 32-bit
[23:02:58] <CaptHindsight> then the RTAI kernel .deb
[23:03:04] <andypugh> OS, then alternative kernel, then LinuxCNC
[23:03:10] <Valen> CaptHindsight: any difference in latency?
[23:03:19] <draconlord> does it have to be a fresh install ?
[23:03:31] <CaptHindsight> Valen: what are we comparing?
[23:03:33] <draconlord> as i already have my ubuntu running
[23:04:08] <Valen> 10.4 vs 12.04
[23:04:30] <CaptHindsight> it's the same
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[23:04:52] <CaptHindsight> mainly just support for newer hardware
[23:05:00] <Valen> thats usefull
[23:05:10] <Valen> i was just wondering if anything magic happened was all ;->
[23:05:19] <CaptHindsight> that was the main reason for the work, we use new hardware
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[23:06:20] <CaptHindsight> it's just as fast, we see ~5us on AMD APU's and older PhenomII cpu's
[23:07:15] <CaptHindsight> we just wanted the GPU hardware accel support in the new kernels
[23:07:41] <CaptHindsight> the older 2.6 kernels should work with Ubuntu 12.04
[23:08:21] <draconlord> aah guys little help here
[23:08:47] <draconlord> which of the .deb files installed first ?
[23:08:51] <CaptHindsight> draconlord: with ubuntu I'd always suggest a clean fresh install
[23:09:15] <draconlord> oh poop !
[23:11:16] <CaptHindsight> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=31248707
[23:12:39] <draconlord> this is so furastrating as i mont willing neither do a fresh install and of course not buying an new machine !
[23:13:28] <CaptHindsight> draconlord: whatis currently installed?
[23:13:29] <andypugh> There are words there I am having trouble guessing.
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[23:14:27] <draconlord> CaptHindsight : my ubuntu 12.04 is already running
[23:15:00] <andypugh> In that case, just get the kernel debs from highlab, and boot into those
[23:15:51] <draconlord> CaptHindsight recomended a fresh install
[23:16:24] <andypugh> it's probably not a bad plan, but may not be necessary if you are already in 12,04
[23:17:01] <CaptHindsight> draconlord: give the debs a try
[23:17:18] <draconlord> waiting for it to download
[23:18:06] <CaptHindsight> seb_kuzminsky: is there anything special required other than just installing the .debs, rebooting and choosing the newer kernel in grub?
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[23:20:35] <CaptHindsight> KimK tried them and he had trouble finding the new kernels
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[23:20:57] <CaptHindsight> not sure what was the problem, grub or ??
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[23:21:45] <PCW> Seb is running 12.04/RTAI on a mill now, I think he said he was going to put up debs
[23:23:57] <draconlord> got them now
[23:24:23] <CaptHindsight> PCW:
http://www.merrii.com/en/products.asp?cid1=169
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[23:25:22] <draconlord> just a quick refrence i start with "rtai-modules-3.4.55-rtai-1_3.9-shabby-memleak-2013.08.05_i386" first
[23:27:15] <CaptHindsight> it might be image (non bdg), headers, rtai modules
[23:29:52] <draconlord> whats the use of doc then ? documentation ?
[23:30:11] <CaptHindsight> IIRC
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[23:30:59] <CaptHindsight> source is there for compliance and retracing his steps
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[23:32:41] <draconlord> thought thats where the source stands for
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[23:36:02] <draconlord> installed
[23:36:32] <draconlord> going for a reboot
[23:36:37] <CaptHindsight> ok, so we'll either see you back in 2-3 minutes or?
[23:36:51] <draconlord> should i do a grub update to list the new kernel ?
[23:37:05] <CaptHindsight> yes
[23:37:45] <CaptHindsight> shouldn't hurt anything if everything was done correctly
[23:38:39] <draconlord> ok done now rebooting...
[23:38:51] <draconlord> cya in a while guys
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[23:39:17] <andypugh> The tension....
[23:39:22] <CaptHindsight> heh
[23:40:22] <CaptHindsight> 1 minute mark
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[23:42:09] <andypugh> draconlord: what does uname -r say?
[23:42:24] <draconlord> i am back
[23:42:27] <draconlord> what ?
[23:43:13] <draconlord> uname -r
[23:43:24] <draconlord> 3.4.55-rtai-1
[23:43:32] <draconlord> sorry typo
[23:43:42] <andypugh> Looks good anyway
[23:43:57] <CaptHindsight> it worked \0/
[23:44:28] <draconlord> now after the hard part is over (or so i was told ) here comes the easy one getting the git
[23:45:15] <CaptHindsight> so the missing step after #2 is update grub
[23:46:02] <CaptHindsight> then reboot
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[23:47:09] <andypugh> I think you need steps 2.1.2 and 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 and 2.5 here:
http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Installing_LinuxCNC#On_Ubuntu_with_LinuxCNC_package_already_installed
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[23:49:38] <draconlord> i figured
[23:50:02] <draconlord> now fetching the linuxcnc
[23:50:08] <draconlord> any help ?
[23:51:02] <draconlord> in a forum there was a suggestion of a minimum install via synaptic
[23:51:21] <draconlord> is that ok ?
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