#linuxcnc | Logs for 2013-11-10

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[00:59:18] <RyanS> Those record players look kind of fugly tbh
[01:04:51] <RyanS> andypugh: did you design that tool post? I haven't seen anything similar
[01:18:02] <andypugh> It was the most common type on the Rivett.
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[01:18:47] <andypugh> Plenty of them here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/rivett/page2.html
[01:20:51] <skunkworks> andypugh: very nice@
[01:20:55] <skunkworks> !
[01:23:17] <andypugh> I need to decide if I am going to put the degree markings around the base of the toolholder. They are entirley pointless :-)
[01:24:12] <andypugh> (Useful when the same casting is used to hold an indexer or milling cutter, as it was, but not in lathe tooholder mode)
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[01:32:02] <RyanS> ah so holds 2 bits, one in each end
[01:32:42] <andypugh> I think normally you would switch the bit, round, but there is the option of rotating the toolholder.
[01:34:12] <andypugh> One nice thing about the lathe is that you don't need any tools. Everything (except the chuck key if you are not using collets) is on hand levers. Very carefully made ones, as it's not easy to engineer a toolpost lock that works with finger torque on a 1" lever.
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[01:36:35] <andypugh> In this picture the two levers you can see are the toolpost swivel lock and the compound slide swivel lock:https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/w8OLIxzsq3Y-PfouGeOwmNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[01:37:24] <andypugh> Err: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/w8OLIxzsq3Y-PfouGeOwmNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[01:38:12] <RyanS> Those bench lathes wih the belt drive going into the cabinet always remind me of old sewing machines
[01:38:29] <andypugh> There is a conical plate under both parts, the lock-lever pushes a matching tapered slide into the side of the conical plate, pulling everything down and locking the rotation. Really rather nice
[01:38:38] <RyanS> ah i see the old one looks pretty broken
[01:39:13] <andypugh> It's quite a good repair, but that chunk of iron ends up getting in the way. And looks ugly.
[01:40:32] <RyanS> you have the 608?
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[01:49:38] <Tom_itx> looks good andypugh
[01:50:07] <andypugh> RyanS: Yes, i accidentally bought a 608 earlier this year.
[01:50:38] <andypugh> I don't know what I want it for :-)
[01:54:31] <RyanS> turning stuff :P
[01:57:42] <andypugh> Yeah, but I have the CNC lathe for that
[01:57:43] <RyanS> I'd be happy with a pedestal drill press at the moment.... Not much clearance with this bench one
[01:58:04] <RyanS> oh ok
[01:59:26] <andypugh> I spent a good part of this afternoon shortening the mounting arbor of my boring head so that bored-hole depth + boring bar + boring head was less than the machine travel.
[02:01:14] <RyanS> How long did it take to convert that milling machine to CNC? A big job it seems from your photos
[02:03:01] <andypugh> It's been about 3 years. But I deliberately made it a big project, and I have had several breaks way from it doing other things.
[02:03:40] <andypugh> I didn't have to make castings for the motor mounts, for example.
[02:04:38] <andypugh> And I spent a good 18 months on a side project.
[02:04:59] <RyanS> cool
[02:05:36] <andypugh> Having been told by the agent that nobody wants to use my idea commercially, I can admit now that the side project was a CNC conversion of the boring head. I had an idea for a way to power a rotating radial axis.
[02:16:24] <RyanS> I just keep my projects simple at the moment, I do the design work (I have a disability) & hire help to operate lathe etc. cnc mill would be good so as to actually 'drive' the mill myself.
[02:17:28] <RyanS> Got someone at the moment who can weld as well, which is handy
[02:17:49] <andypugh> My boring head was not simple. Step 1) Design and build a special brushless motor from scratch..
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[02:19:36] <RyanS> jees
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[02:36:35] <PetefromTn> How many lathes do you have anyway andy?
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[02:39:44] <andypugh> Technically I have three.
[02:40:03] <PetefromTn> how many are CNC/
[02:40:29] <Tom_itx> andypugh, is that counting the horizontal mill?
[02:40:44] <andypugh> There is the CNC Chinese one, then a non-CNC 1930s Colchester Triumph in my dad's workshop, and the 608, also non-CNC
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[02:41:19] <andypugh> I might CNC the 608. Just to cause outrage :-)
[02:41:33] <PetefromTn> cool.. I need to CNC my 12x36 lathe at some futurisic point LOL
[02:42:29] <andypugh> CNC converting the Z of any lathe is trivial (in fact there is a lot to be said for replacing the changewheels/gearbox by encoder and motor on _any_ lathe.
[02:42:39] <PetefromTn> just finished that drawing today and tried to import it into cambam to see about 3d milling it.
[02:42:47] <andypugh> But the X can often be tricky.
[02:43:17] <PetefromTn> Now that I can see it in the program I dunno how to differentiate the simple 2.5 d drill and mill from the 3d contouring.
[02:43:47] <andypugh> If I was doing the Chinese lathe again I would throw away the entire carriage and start from scratch. Of course the difference now is that I have the other tools to do that.
[02:43:51] <PetefromTn> the part seems to be one entity in Cambam without features clickable to machine individually.
[02:44:25] <PetefromTn> yeah I agree. Probably just remove the undercarriage of the lath carriage and built what is needed./
[02:44:52] <PetefromTn> Dunno what I am doing wrong with it so far but this is my first time 3d ing stuff.
[02:44:56] <andypugh> A CNC saddle is just a lump of metal with two grooves in it for the ways.
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[02:45:25] <PetefromTn> agreed..
[02:45:51] <PetefromTn> andy where are you located in England?
[02:46:12] <andypugh> PetefromTn: I used MeshCAM recently, that seems to work really well. Except that for some reason the origin wasn't quite where I thought, and so that toolholder is a bit compressed in one axis.
[02:46:25] <andypugh> PetefromTn: Just to the east of London.
[02:46:42] <PetefromTn> I am sitting here with my oldest daughter who is 11 and she is interested in the fact that folks on here are all over the world LOL
[02:47:28] <PetefromTn> How amazing is it that we can chat across amazing distances right NOW!! hell it amazes me too.
[02:48:18] <PetefromTn> So you crunched that toolholder down some then huh..
[02:50:29] <andypugh> PetefromTn: You can zoom her out from here: http://goo.gl/maps/OSqaH
[02:51:11] <PetefromTn> Awesome man...which car is yours?
[02:51:24] <andypugh> I don't have a car :-)
[02:51:40] <PetefromTn> Okay is your house the brick one?
[02:51:56] <andypugh> I am the middle one of the three.
[02:52:21] <andypugh> The workshop is round the back.
[02:52:29] <PetefromTn> Okay the white one with red trim?
[02:53:29] <PetefromTn> Awesome man....she said can we come over for tea??!!
[02:54:01] <andypugh> Actually, I used to live in the white one, but the end all-brick set is actually three houses.
[02:54:02] <skunkworks> isn't it past her bed time?
[02:55:10] <andypugh> The white one is actually really small. The others are only fairly small.
[02:55:16] <PetefromTn> well its only ten and it is Saturday so SORTA..LOL We just finished eating some ice cream and I was showing here the Cad program and drawings I was working on today. She likes to draw in Blender all the time.
[02:55:27] <RyanS> Is buying an extra lathe like "umm honey, I need to get another lathe to erm turn more stuff"?
[02:55:44] <skunkworks> cool! Our daughter isn't that advanced yet. (14 months)
[02:56:05] <andypugh> RyanS: I answer only to myself.
[02:56:33] <PetefromTn> I want to try to teach her to draw in Cad in more of an engineering scheme than just drawing mine craft figures in Blender LOL
[02:57:01] <andypugh> It's a really different way of thinking.
[02:57:25] <RyanS> That's easy then
[02:57:33] <PetefromTn> agreed.. Things must be much more precise in cad generally speaking.
[02:57:39] <RyanS> blender is a horrible program
[02:58:11] <PetefromTn> Could not disagree more... I think it is an amazing program if you are into graphic design or video or gaming.
[02:58:23] <PetefromTn> especially since it is free.
[02:58:41] <PetefromTn> It is kinda like the Freecad of the video world..
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[02:59:26] <PetefromTn> Is it COld as hell over there in England right now>
[02:59:42] <PetefromTn> how cold does it get where you are?
[02:59:57] <RyanS> The definition of free can be somewhat 'expanded' :P
[03:00:01] <andypugh> I first started 3D CAD with AutoCAD mechanical desktop. That would only extrude a sketch when it was fully constrained. And if you tried it would tell you how many constraints were missing. No further clues. Not which nodes or lines were inconstrained, no colour coding, nothing. It was like a logic puzzle. Entertaining in its way, but frustating when you just wanted to model stuff.
[03:00:36] <PetefromTn> I know it has come a long way hasn't it.
[03:01:12] <PetefromTn> do you use inventor or something?
[03:01:17] <RyanS> I've gotten pretty used to solidworks, I had ever actually used 2-D cad
[03:01:20] <andypugh> The UK doesn't do extreme weather. It's currenlty a bit rainy, and 5C (40F?)
[03:01:52] <RyanS> 5c is bloody freezing :)
[03:01:59] <PetefromTn> My brother went there with a family freind to visit and he said it was always raining and cold.. But we are colder than that here now..
[03:02:19] <RyanS> But I am from the antipodes
[03:02:37] <PetefromTn> I think we will hit the freezing mark tonight.
[03:02:47] <RyanS> or the dominions :p
[03:02:48] <andypugh> I use Inventor now. I rather like it. It works like I think. (But then I think like I think because I was a CAD-jockey with Inventor for a couple of years )
[03:03:35] <PetefromTn> RyanS: So you are from Down under then LOL
[03:04:03] <andypugh> I was told yesterday that I am going to Thomson in January. Apparently a town containing only miners and strippers.
[03:04:09] <PetefromTn> Did you get it thru work or something it is quite expensive...
[03:04:39] <RyanS> well Melbourne is considered reasonably average weather
[03:04:56] <PetefromTn> around here we call that BFE...
[03:05:07] <RyanS> Not as cold as Tasmania,
[03:05:24] <andypugh> Yes, I get a free Inventor license for home as a consequence of having a network license at work :-)
[03:05:34] <PetefromTn> the coldest I ever saw it here was 9 degrees F one night.
[03:05:54] <PetefromTn> Damn that is nice...
[03:05:58] <andypugh> I have worked in -40 in Finland.
[03:06:24] <PetefromTn> Jeez colder than a witches titty....
[03:06:36] <andypugh> it's not pleasant.
[03:06:42] <PetefromTn> Colder than a well diggers ass..
[03:06:50] <RyanS> I think that's why the English went to Tasmania first, so the administrators didn't get heatstroke
[03:07:41] <RyanS> Doesn't it get dark at 3 PM in the UK?
[03:07:47] <PetefromTn> I would love to visit newfoundland.
[03:08:51] <RyanS> I kind of consider 15�c to be rather chilly
[03:08:58] <PetefromTn> So you draw in inventor and then cam in Meshcam then?
[03:10:36] <RyanS> Have you compared it to solidworks?
[03:11:03] <andypugh> I am trying out various CAM options. I would be happy with PyCAM if it wasn't so incredibly slow. It must be doing something really stupid and I have half a plan to see what and try to optimise it.
[03:11:56] <PetefromTn> I am TRYING to use sheetcam for the 2.5d stuff and then Cambam for the 3d stuff but so far not that simple.
[03:13:08] <andypugh> I haven't tried Solidworks. I have a paid-for license for Alibre, and that's not bad. I have played with Heeks (but the sketches are non-parametric) and FreeCAD (probably OK, but too different to bother with when I have Inventor for free)
[03:13:48] <PetefromTn> andypugh: My daugter wants to know if there are any dogs that came from England. We have a Siberian Husky named Nanuu....
[03:14:38] <andypugh> I don't actually do much 3d stuff. What I like doing is making things on my lathe, and then I just use my turning/boring/facing macros and no (visible) G-code
[03:15:08] <andypugh> I think about half the recognised breeds of dog are British.
[03:15:15] <PetefromTn> aah so like conversational then...
[03:16:15] <PetefromTn> I NEED to get this part prototyped here soon. The damn machine is sitting out there collecting dust and it needs to be making me some money LOL
[03:16:22] <andypugh> Yorkshire Terrier, Border Collie, King Charles Spaniel, English Mastiff, Spit Dog (extinct)
[03:16:49] <RyanS> Irish setter, welsh corgi English sheepdog , British shorthair (oops thats a cat)
[03:16:50] <andypugh> Greyhound, Whippet,
[03:17:18] <andypugh> Not sure about the Irish Setter, that might be Irish :-)
[03:17:43] <RyanS> release the hounds
[03:17:46] <andypugh> But is it quite possible that Ireland was part of the UK at the time.
[03:17:47] <PetefromTn> LOL that is awesome man. thanks...
[03:18:21] <PetefromTn> yeah no thanks to Wiliam Wallace....LOL
[03:18:26] <RyanS> I don't know if Irish people like to call themselves British, probably not
[03:18:51] <PetefromTn> You guys crack me up..
[03:19:10] <PetefromTn> RELEASE THE HOUNDS!!!!!!!!!
[03:19:44] <RyanS> I saw this, Stephen Fry show about language. And apparently, if you go to Leed for instance, they have a different accent for each suburb!
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[03:20:16] <RyanS> Leeds*
[03:21:01] <andypugh> I used to live in Leeds.
[03:21:20] <RyanS> Surely with the advent of umm transport and communication technology, there would be not so much of a division with accents
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[03:22:23] <PetefromTn> I watched a movie with Brad Pitt where he played a brittish guy and I could hardly understand anything they said thru the movie. It was funny tho LOL
[03:22:26] <andypugh> In the village where my parents live the pronunciation of the village name differs depending on which side of the valley you live on. ("Slawit" Or "Slath-wayte"). Of course the spelling is neither ("Slaitewaite")
[03:22:58] <PetefromTn> LOL interesting.
[03:23:26] <andypugh> (Sorry, I got the spelling wrong, It's Slaithwaite, but I have a map from 1620 where it is Clygwat.
[03:23:34] <PetefromTn> Of course there are people around here that are from the "HILLS" that I cannot understand a damn thing they say half the time and they are speaking english!!!
[03:23:38] <RyanS> He was supposed to be an Irish gypsy
[03:23:50] <PetefromTn> who?
[03:24:48] <RyanS> Were you talking about the movie Snatch?
[03:25:19] <PetefromTn> Yeah I think so could not recall the name. He was a fighter or something. Good movie.
[03:25:59] <PetefromTn> Oh thats right he was a gypsy.. they have a name for them I don;t remember.
[03:26:06] <PetefromTn> Oh yeah a PIKEY...
[03:26:22] <PetefromTn> or something like that.
[03:26:54] <PetefromTn> RyanS: What city do you live in?>
[03:27:16] <RyanS> why do British comedians always makes fun of Norwich, it seems to be coming up in every second show I've seen in the last month
[03:27:29] <RyanS> Melbourne
[03:27:59] <PetefromTn> Awesome...
[03:28:30] <RyanS> Maybe it's the Alan Partridge / Norwich thing
[03:29:52] <PetefromTn> Oh well thanks guys for chatting with us. We're gonna go to bed now. Say goodnight Gracie LOL
[03:30:56] <RyanS> gn
[03:35:23] <andypugh> Yikes! 0330 here. Time I was in bed too!
[03:35:31] <andypugh> Night all.
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[06:55:27] <archivist> Norwich is fundamentally boring
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[08:01:09] <_DJ_> moin
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[09:07:30] <pingufan> Hi, can somebody tell me if (and how) LinuxCNC can communicate through a serial port with a client (PIC) ?
[09:08:55] <archivist> why do you think adding external PIC is the right thing to do
[09:09:22] <pingufan> I want to send some a command to a controller when I turn spindle on/off, and I want to receive status messaged from the monitor (PIC) which also shall act as a "keyboard" for major functions.
[09:10:58] <archivist> there is a spindle controller in hal just connect the pin to the parallel port
[09:11:00] <pingufan> I want to place there some buttons (emergency stop), a joystick, and also do some monitoring of the mill, and all this does not fit into one parallel port.
[09:11:15] <archivist> add a another port
[09:12:25] <pingufan> LinuxCNC already controls my spindle (turns it on/off), but it is belt-driven, so I want to monitor if it is really rotating, otherwise the tool will break.
[09:12:44] <archivist> there is a spindle at speed input
[09:13:05] <pingufan> No room for another port. This is a very compact miniITX board in a very compact enclosure.
[09:14:40] <pingufan> The spindle at speed input is permanently monitored, or does the system only wait until speed is reached?
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[09:16:55] <pingufan> The reason is: I can either move so slow that it will work even with the toughenest material, or I get closer to the limits and add an emergency stop when spindle rpm go too deep.
[09:17:23] <pingufan> I am milling ALU, this is sometimes a chellenge.
[09:17:53] <pingufan> I broke hereby meanwhile several tools (2 mm dia).
[09:18:24] <pingufan> Monitoring is cheaper with time.
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[09:21:10] <pingufan> As the PIC is far away from its limits with monitoring the spindle, I also want to monitor it some buttons (Emergency stop, 3-axes moves, ...).
[09:21:54] <pingufan> I am unsure if I do that through USB HID Keyboard simulation or (easier) through a serial port.
[09:22:19] <pingufan> archivist: Do you understand what I plan to do?
[09:22:35] <archivist> plenty have done keyboards via usb
[09:23:27] <archivist> but do read the integrators manual as you seem to not be doing that
[09:23:33] <pingufan> But this conflicts then with the real keyboard. Therefore I'd prefer serial port.
[09:24:17] <archivist> I am not aware of any conflicts with the keyboard
[09:24:19] <pingufan> I ask first about what is generally possible, before searching endless for something that does not exist.
[09:24:45] <archivist> I keep having to point you at stuff that does exists :)
[09:25:26] <pingufan> Example: The controller sends ESC - ESC - ESC - .... because the spindle stucks. And I am currently typing something on the keyboard. This will give a mixture of inputs.
[09:26:48] <pingufan> Can the HAL send/receive over serial port? No BIT-Fiddling, but sending/receiving data.
[09:29:52] <pingufan> Sending commands as DATA over serial port is a very flexible method, if it is supported to handle the DATA.
[09:33:52] <pingufan> archivist: can the HAL send and receive DATA over serial port (no need for realtime)?
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[09:40:04] <pingufan> archivist: I find nothing about serial communication in the docs
[09:43:13] <pingufan> this is all I found (and has only dead links): http://linuxcnc.org/hardy/lucid/index.php/german/forum/38-general-linuxcnc-questions/7886-sending-ascii-characters-to-serial-port-in-emc
[09:43:56] <pingufan> But this comes close to what I want to do.
[09:44:11] <pingufan> This documentation is really poor. :(
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[12:45:11] <MacGalempsy_> morning all
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[13:03:35] <jthornton> morning
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[13:16:49] <MacGalempsy_> hows it going today John?
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[13:18:23] <MacGalempsy_> had an busy evening, but have a first run of the INI file. your example helped a bunch, but there are still a lot of variables in the manual that are not in the pnc config file that was compiled
[13:19:23] <MacGalempsy_> however, its time to hit the sack. ttyl
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[13:45:29] <PetefromTn> Morning folks.
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[14:06:35] <JT_Shop> MacGlempsy_ if you read back read this againg about custom variables http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/config/ini_config.html#_custom_sections_and_variables_a_id_sub_custom_variables_a
[14:07:17] <JT_Shop> againg/again
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[14:08:43] <Tecan> http://www.google.com.br/patents/WO2008021130A1?cl=en << HHO deposition patent filed 2008
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[14:29:06] <Tecan> what would be better for metal deposition YAG or HE
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[14:48:18] <IchGuckLive> pcw_home: ALL fine in germany You have been wright the M880 takes mutch faster then the M542 i got up to 4500 ns in timing now its ok
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[14:51:02] <IchGuckLive> Loetmichel: hi
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[15:02:38] <sirdancealot3> ohai?
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[15:19:29] <PetefromTn> MMMmmmm Hot Cocoa with whipped cream....
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[15:55:04] <sirdancealot3> if someone wants a script that makes a continuity tester out of your zprobe https://github.com/koo5/cnc_stuff/blob/master/continuity_tester.py
[15:55:10] <sirdancealot3> oh hey thats a good description to put there
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[16:38:53] <archivist> hrmph freecycle PCs seem to be worth what one pays for them :(
[16:39:29] <PetefromTn> LOL hey man ya get what ya pay for right .....
[16:39:34] <Tom_itx> free?
[16:40:16] <archivist> free in freecycle means just that
[16:40:30] -!- maZer`GTi- [maZer`[email protected]] has joined #linuxcnc
[16:41:47] <archivist> cant get my money back for a non worker or poor latency
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[16:59:23] <skunkworks> but it was free!
[16:59:40] <skunkworks> Some of the best latency computer I have had where free
[17:01:28] <malcom2073> Heh, if it was worth something, it'd be on craigslist not freecycle
[17:02:32] <archivist> last time I looked at craigslist in the uk I got bored looking and finding nothing of interest
[17:03:12] <archivist> hmm any 72 dp gear cutters over the pond?
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[17:03:48] <skunkworks> remember to check the hd... I have had a few that had pending relocated sectors that where high... causes pauses and reboots.
[17:07:11] <archivist> this came without a disk, was attempting to use a disk I had already setup, but its now failing to start at all
[17:07:56] <Tom_itx> bad caps?
[17:08:01] <Tom_itx> i've recapped a couple
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[17:09:58] <skunkworks> me too
[17:10:20] <skunkworks> fixed about 80%
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[17:17:22] <archivist> hmm finding 72 dp milling cutters seems a bit awkward to google
[17:18:08] <archivist> found one NOS on ebay canada but not the one I need
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[17:22:30] <pzpz> hi
[17:23:07] <pzpz> someone here
[17:24:20] <pzpz> what cantroller to bay for my cnc?
[17:24:29] <sirdancealot3> how important is the latency/jitter stuff when just starting out, attempting pcbs and wood? I just set the jitter period to the 50000 because that was what it was approaching when i really stressed the computer. Is it more of a steel milling surface finish issue, or could it be causing me trouble?
[17:25:22] <pzpz> hi sirdancealot3
[17:25:26] <sirdancealot3> hi
[17:26:15] <pzpz> i'm new here.. now i'm only start to build my cnc machine
[17:26:53] <pzpz> do you know if linux cnc support ATC?
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[17:27:26] <IchGuckLive> Hi all B)
[17:27:30] <pzpz> hi IchGuckLive
[17:27:45] <IchGuckLive> hi ho ever you are
[17:27:55] <IchGuckLive> how
[17:27:55] <pzpz> i'm new here.. now i'm only start to build my cnc machine
[17:28:11] <IchGuckLive> oh welcome i got over 150 build
[17:28:23] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: where in the world are you from
[17:28:46] <pzpz> israel / usa
[17:28:51] <IchGuckLive> nice
[17:29:00] <IchGuckLive> so stepper or Servo
[17:29:02] <pzpz> yes.
[17:29:06] <pzpz> SERVO!!
[17:29:23] <IchGuckLive> ok in the USA go for the /i77 from mesa
[17:29:31] <IchGuckLive> 7i77
[17:29:33] <pzpz> I'm planing to use a Grizzly G0704 as the basis of a CNC machine
[17:29:43] <pzpz> what is the 7i77?
[17:30:14] <IchGuckLive> its a I/O interface for servos
[17:30:37] <archivist> pzpz, yes a number have ATCs controlled by linuxcnc
[17:30:39] <pzpz> cool
[17:30:47] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: are you building the CNC yourself or reconfiguring a ready made
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[17:32:34] <IchGuckLive> for a grizzlie or a router like that servos are mutch to expensiv there are nice a tens of the price steppers
[17:33:00] <IchGuckLive> also a RF50 is less then 25% of the crizzlie
[17:33:05] <IchGuckLive> G
[17:33:37] <pzpz> i want to make 5 axis machine with a motored caeucale ATC 24 tools and motored cover , and 2 kind of probes one of tham is a motored arm digitaizer
[17:33:40] <IchGuckLive> if you can get a Turning shop access in your range it will be very cheep
[17:34:22] <IchGuckLive> Oh on that level i woudent go eighter with a grizzlie Why not reconfiguring a ready made Haas VF2
[17:34:32] <pzpz> the RF50 is not small than the G0704?
[17:34:48] <IchGuckLive> there are lots of them out there with bad controls as they went of in head times
[17:35:16] <IchGuckLive> the RF50 and that kind odf are all the same price
[17:35:20] <pzpz> i want to make it in 5K$ ~
[17:35:27] <pzpz> not 25-50K$
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[17:35:57] <IchGuckLive> if you can go for a KNUTH thats a russion one this have the best reliable mashine layouts for hard work
[17:36:10] <pzpz> my biggest problem is what controler to chose?
[17:36:42] <syyl--> knuth is just more expensive chinese crap
[17:36:46] <IchGuckLive> http://www.knuth.de/sprache,8.html
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[17:36:49] <pzpz> and if all the service motors is like anather "axis"
[17:36:59] <IchGuckLive> syyl there are made in russia
[17:37:09] <syyl--> an i am from the moon
[17:37:35] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: the 5i25 / 7i77 is ready to start for you
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[17:38:38] <pzpz> what is the price for it?
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[17:38:50] <pzpz> i cant finde it.. :(
[17:39:25] <IchGuckLive> http://www.mesanet.com/
[17:39:38] <IchGuckLive> Anithing Io FPGA cards
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[17:40:32] <pzpz> no price :(
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[17:40:48] <IchGuckLive> the kit is 239
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[17:40:59] <pzpz> what about the G320X?
[17:41:00] <IchGuckLive> there is a price list
[17:41:17] <IchGuckLive> this is a driver
[17:41:39] <IchGuckLive> this is a Step Dir aplication
[17:41:44] <IchGuckLive> not a realy Servo
[17:42:15] <IchGuckLive> is pcw_home on ?
[17:43:16] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: on mashines that size its a Waste of money to go for servos
[17:43:36] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go foe 3-8Nm Steppers at 75 V
[17:43:53] <pzpz> but i want servos..
[17:44:02] <pzpz> this.. 7I65 8 Axis analog servo interface - 16 bit DACs - 13 bit ADCs 279
[17:44:18] <IchGuckLive> today i did a test with the 5i25/7i76 and got to 15m/min
[17:44:40] <IchGuckLive> pzpz: the 7i77 is a 6Axis
[17:45:26] <IchGuckLive> that woudt fit your needs and on the second 5i25 input you can get lots of more Gpio
[17:45:35] <pzpz> i need 5 + 3 for the ATC motor, ATC cover, digitaizer arm
[17:46:12] <archivist> often the atc is done a different way
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[17:46:42] <pzpz> archivist: how it done?
[17:46:50] <IchGuckLive> i guess you shoudt act the ATC on its own
[17:47:14] <IchGuckLive> get him the tool number and the change signal and wait fot tool changed
[17:47:15] <archivist> pzpz, mostly I see classicladder used
[17:47:32] <IchGuckLive> <- agrres with archi
[17:47:55] <pzpz> what is classicladder ?
[17:48:05] <IchGuckLive> a kind of SPS
[17:48:49] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples pzpz
[17:49:06] <IchGuckLive> http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?ClassicLadderExamples#ATC_tool_changer_program
[17:49:19] <archivist> http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/ladder/classic_ladder.html
[17:50:39] <pzpz> i want to make something like that
[17:51:14] <pzpz> http://www.tormach.com/uploads/images/Gallery/products/pcnc1100/PCNC1100_Options_ATC/32279_ATC_lrg.jpg
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[17:51:32] <pzpz> but motor based. not air
[17:51:41] <kwallace> If you know C or Python, one can use a HAL comp instead of Ladder. You can use whatever you know.
[17:51:43] <archivist> and if you wand solid machine tool, retrofit some industrial machine not a grizzly
[17:51:53] <IchGuckLive> air is cheep and wil work quit fast
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[17:53:02] <archivist> pzpz, what are you intending to make on the machine
[17:53:12] <pzpz> i cant fit industrial machin at my home..
[17:53:57] <archivist> sure you can, chuck the car out the garage :)
[17:54:14] <pzpz> it's third floor, wood floor
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[17:54:18] <archivist> small industrial methinks
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[17:54:42] <pzpz> industrial machin = hole in the floor
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[17:55:08] <archivist> I have my home brew 5 axis in a bedroom
[17:55:36] <IchGuckLive> i got the same hre its only 1x1m
[17:56:16] <archivist> had to carry it up the stairs in bits due to weight
[17:57:14] <pzpz> you know about industrial one that give me about 45X20 cm? and i can move it myself - and under 5000$
[17:57:55] <kwallace> Converting an older CNC machine with a bad controller is more cost effective than converting a new or used manual machine, if you can provide the space, move the machine and need to make larger parts. http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Shizuoka/
[17:59:37] <IchGuckLive> kwallace: the evaluation pin bvoard is nice
[17:59:41] <pzpz> it is too big..
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[18:00:42] <pzpz> i want to make the 4 and 5 axis as a portable table
[18:01:30] <IchGuckLive> thats the most comen one XYZ CA
[18:01:52] <IchGuckLive> with CA mounted eighter on X or Y
[18:02:05] <kwallace> Too big, but cost lass than $2k plus less than $1k to convert. I moved it myself.
[18:02:14] <IchGuckLive> Hermal setup and also DMG
[18:02:22] <IchGuckLive> hermle
[18:02:39] <pzpz> http://conversioncnckit.com/img/p/14-51-large.jpg
[18:03:04] <IchGuckLive> oh thats crap
[18:03:10] <IchGuckLive> this will kill a 1mm bit
[18:03:34] <pzpz> why??
[18:04:25] <IchGuckLive> its a chees setup
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[18:05:44] <pzpz> but i want to build it right.. with harmonic drive servos
[18:06:10] <IchGuckLive> up to you
[18:06:38] <pzpz> with harmonic drive servos it will kill 1mm bit
[18:06:40] <pzpz> ?
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[18:11:08] <pzpz> i can "save" 2 motor contros, if the EMC2 can suplly "1" logic to open the atc cover and "0" logic to close it..
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[18:11:26] <pzpz> the same with the digitaizer arm
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[18:13:06] <IchGuckLive> did you look around in the mashine shops thee are bunch of redy made ones for less then 2kgran
[18:13:24] <IchGuckLive> BF30 Super ATC
[18:13:57] <pzpz> i dont know about mashine shops in the us
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[18:14:42] <IchGuckLive> then you are right here
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[18:16:42] <pzpz> one sec my frinde will connect here also
[18:17:00] <IchGuckLive> friends are also welco me
[18:17:14] <IchGuckLive> by the way im in germany
[18:17:54] <IchGuckLive> at the bad weather outside today i managed to get all 3 Plasma electronics mounted
[18:19:27] <kengu> mounting outside?
[18:20:03] <IchGuckLive> as i got Wlan access yes cause needs to open window O.O
[18:20:19] <kengu> ah
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[18:20:31] <IchGuckLive> getting winter here
[18:20:39] <kengu> i just installed a fresh copy linuxcnc and 6i25 (and 7i76 waiting) to end up in the plasma cutter
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[18:21:00] <IchGuckLive> nice
[18:21:07] <IchGuckLive> what driver setup
[18:21:36] <IchGuckLive> i go only for leadshine as the local dealer here got them and is able to get a broken one bacck
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[18:22:26] <kengu> https://www.google.com/search?q=dq3722m#q=dq3722m
[18:23:35] <IchGuckLive> what volts is the driver cabable
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[18:23:51] <kengu> i have no idea
[18:23:55] <kengu> (:
[18:24:31] <kengu> my responsibility ends in the middle of 7i76
[18:24:54] <kengu> http://www.bsjd.com/en/productshowinfo.asp?id=850
[18:25:08] <IchGuckLive> that is the best
[18:25:18] <IchGuckLive> only programmig no cables
[18:26:20] <kengu> well.. i have to help with the electronics, sort of, to figure out what should be connected where on the mesa
[18:26:51] <kengu> and ofcourse then i need to know the stepper settings etc and those are further along the path
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[18:28:44] <IchGuckLive> i woudt go with a full hybrid setup then not a a divided one the driver only outputs not getting reterns
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[18:33:50] <kengu> well. i don't know too much about this subject
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[18:51:57] <IchGuckLive> im off BYE
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[19:50:35] <TH9000> Hi
[19:54:29] <pzpz> hi TH9000
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[19:54:51] <pzpz> ?
[19:55:01] -!- TH9000 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
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[19:58:18] <Loetmichel> hrmpf... i shouldnt have mentoined to my wife that i find Chocolate with chili "interesting"... now i have here 5 150gr sheets of "lindt dark Chocolate, Pomegranate & Chili" ;-)
[20:00:41] <pzpz> Loetmichel: leave the Chili for the pizza,,,
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[20:03:09] <pzpz> hi again The_Ball
[20:03:39] <pzpz> hi again TH9000
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[20:06:00] <pzpz> someone here now?
[20:06:39] <Tom_itx> pzpz if you got something to ask, ask it
[20:07:20] <pzpz> we want to know about ATC
[20:07:51] <Tom_itx> they prefetch and change tools in cnc machines
[20:07:55] <Tom_itx> what more do you want to know?
[20:08:00] <TH9000> I'm planning a 3 axes machine, whith a tool carousel/tool changer and a cover (to prevent chips and coolant from getting into the tools).
[20:08:28] <TH9000> What kind of breakout box do I need?
[20:09:25] <pzpz> Tom_itx: ^
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[20:11:36] <pzpz> hi dhoovie|2
[20:12:36] <TH9000> How is the ATC being controlled? Does it have it's own breakout box? (Or other special controller) , or do I use a 5 axes breakoutbox and somehow can configure the extra axes for the ATC and cover?
[20:13:50] <pzpz> someone here? Tom_itx ?
[20:15:31] <pzpz> kengu, IchGuckLive, ?
[20:15:34] <TH9000> Tom_itx - How is the ATC being controlled? Does it have it's own breakout box? (Or other special controller) , or do I use a 5 axes breakoutbox and somehow can configure the extra axes for the ATC and cover?
[20:16:12] <Tom_itx> it's not my atc, i have no idea
[20:16:24] <TH9000> I'm asking in general...
[20:16:47] <ReadError> pzpz, how you gonna put an ATC on a grizzly ?
[20:19:31] <kengu> v�t
[20:21:56] <TH9000> I need one output for a power drawbar (ON|OFF), and one output for the tool carousel motor, one output for a tool cover motor. - ReadError kengu
[20:22:50] <pzpz> ReadError: kengu ^
[20:24:08] <ReadError> i guess another question is
[20:24:15] <ReadError> if you are wanting to spend all this time/money
[20:24:17] <TH9000> What kind
[20:24:20] <ReadError> why would you get a grizzly ?
[20:24:23] <TH9000> of a controller?
[20:24:35] <TH9000> or a breakout board..
[20:24:48] <ReadError> is TH9000 and pzpz the same person?
[20:24:58] <pzpz> no
[20:25:23] <TH9000> We are friends. we have this big debate about connecting tool changers.
[20:25:38] <ReadError> how will you mate the new collets to the grizzly ?
[20:26:10] <pzpz> we will use TTS
[20:26:35] <TH9000> I'm talking about the step of choosing the correct breakout board....
[20:26:59] <TH9000> It the machine is a 3 axes... and I need to expand capailities...
[20:27:44] <TH9000> Do I need to get a 5 / 6 / 7 axes breakout board, or I can start with a 3 axes board, and add a secondary controller of some sort?
[20:28:32] <ReadError> get a MESA card
[20:28:38] <Tom_itx> ^^
[20:28:43] <TH9000> What's a MESA card?
[20:28:46] <Tom_itx> bingo someone finally said the magic words
[20:29:50] <TH9000> What kind? model?
[20:30:41] <kwallace1> http://www.mesanet.com/fpgacardinfo.html
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[20:35:19] <TH9000> kwallace1: there are lots of them.... how do I choose?
[20:35:29] <ReadError> "get one that suits your needs"
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[20:36:52] <ReadError> do your homework, you are the one that knows what they need/want
[20:38:08] <TH9000> For example, if I have a 3 x G320X (per X/Y/Z) , one G320X for the tool carusel, and one G320X for the tool cover, each needs a step and direction, so I need a board of 3 axes, or a 5 axes
[20:38:12] <TH9000> ?
[20:39:09] <kwallace1> You might try to make a list of the inputs and outputs you plan to use. Stepper drivers tend to only need digital I/O at 0 and 5Volts. Servo drivers will need some digital I/O and maybe analog at 0 to 5V, or more likely +/- 10V. The ATC will most likely need only need digital I/O and could be run with a parallel port card if you are short on I/O.
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[20:41:17] <TH9000> kwallace1: Thank you, I'll try to work out a list, I'll be back in few minutes..
[20:41:18] <kwallace1> For servos, I would go with a servo amplifier instead of a step/dir servo driver. This leaves the control bits inside LinuxCNC so you can setup and trouble shoot the servo control with HAL.
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[20:42:46] <kwallace1> Mesa and Pico systems have amplifiers. My Pico's are used here:http://www.wallacecompany.com/cnc_lathe/HNC/00013-1a.jpg
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[20:44:34] <TH9000> kwallace1: Is this Servo amplifier more expensive than a G320X?
[20:44:41] <kwallace1> The Pico amplifiers use digital out with a fast PWM signal to effectively supply an analog signal.
[20:44:58] <TH9000> *expansive
[20:45:02] <kwallace1> The Pico I think is going for $120 each
[20:45:35] <kwallace1> http://pico-systems.com/pwmservo.html
[20:45:50] <TH9000> kwallace1: haha, you read my mind...
[20:46:11] <TH9000> (I was about to ask you where too look)
[20:46:19] <kwallace1> http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=26
[20:47:26] <TH9000> Do you have some sort of a block diagram of how your system is connected?
[20:47:36] <TH9000> kwallace1: ^
[20:47:42] <kwallace1> Oops, I forgot, this amp drives DC brushed motors. There are brushless amps available too.
[20:47:59] <TH9000> What type?
[20:50:34] <kwallace1> My servos are motors with brushes The more modern way to go is with brushless AC or DC permanent magnet motors.
[20:52:17] <TH9000> kwallace1: In your picture, what is Turret input?
[20:55:31] <kwallace1> The turret uses digital I/O, such as turret up, turret rotate, turret park. There is an encoder that sets a binary tool number. The signals are at 12 volts so I made my own break-out.
[20:58:52] <kwallace1> I also use Pico's controller and used their documents to set up the connections. The Mesa would use a similar setup. http://pico-systems.com/univpwm.html http://pico-systems.com/images/pwmuse.pdf
[21:00:07] <TH9000> So basically each axis or turret or cover etc needs one channel in the Mesa card?
[21:02:20] <kwallace1> An axis on my lathe needs a PWM, a DIR, an ENABLE, plus a FAULT in the E-Stop loop.
[21:03:53] <TH9000> So why does the G320X has only Step/DIR ?
[21:06:23] <kwallace1> The G320X receives a position, then has built-in intelligence to do what it needs to get to that position. The amp just converts a command from LinuxCNC to an analog output.
[21:06:46] <TH9000> So PWM+DIR+Enable+E-stop loop Fault = single channel?
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[21:07:06] <kwallace1> The G320X looks just like a stepper to LinuxCNC.
[21:08:10] <kwallace1> "So PWM+DIR+Enable+E-stop loop Fault = single channel?" , pretty much.
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[21:09:39] <kwallace1> The Mesa controller has firmware files for different configurations, so the needed signals are provided.
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[21:10:35] <kwallace1> http://www.linuxcnc.org/docs/2.4/html/drivers_hostmot2.html#r1_2
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[21:11:41] <TH9000> So what will be a better way to connect a servo motor to the breakout board?
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[21:13:56] <kwallace1> Mesa has break out boards that cover common setups. You might need to condition a signal or two if you need to drive an unusual relay or something at high voltage.
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[21:15:20] <TH9000> kwallace1: How does it get "tied into" in the software?
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[21:20:06] <kwallace1> The LinuxCNC .ini file for your configuration calls out any other .hal files. Typically the main .hal file will start with loading drivers and firmware. A hostmot2 matching what you need will be called, then HAL with make pins for the bits in the hostmot2 configuration. You get to write commands in the .hal file to connect these pins to existing LinuxCNC pins.
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[21:24:13] <kwallace1> Oops "HAL will make pins"
[21:25:34] <TH9000> What does it mean "HAL will make pins"?
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[21:34:16] <TH9000> kwallace1: BTW, nice bi-quad antenna...
[21:36:03] <kwallace1> When the firmware gets loaded to the Mesa card, the card sets itself up with encoder inputs, PWM outputs, counters, gpio, and what ever. Once that is done, HAL creates pin names for the new features. I think they follow "hm2_board_type.feature_name.function". So to get an axis encoder signal into LinuxCNC, you would connect the LinuxCNC encoder input which is a counter to an hm2 encoder counter.
[21:38:17] <kwallace1> Sorta like "net encoder_name hm2_5i25.0.encoder.00.count axis.0.motor-pos-fb"
[21:41:22] <kwallace1> "net" creates a new connection, "encoder_name" gives it a signal name, then connects (in software) the pins called out.
[21:43:08] <kwallace1> I made the bi-quads back when directional WiFi antennas were expensive -- not much point now.
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[21:45:48] <kwallace1> If you are looking at my .hal files, note that they use the old hal commands which probably won't work anymore.
[21:46:27] <TH9000> Doe the Mesa card acts as a fency bunch of LPT/Parallel ports, or does it actually processes the g-code in real-time?
[21:47:23] <TH9000> Do you build other antennas? (2m/70cm etc...)
[21:47:42] <MacGalempsy> afternoon everyone
[21:48:18] <pzpz> hi MacGalempsy
[21:48:28] <MacGalempsy> when would one want to use a HALTLC file rather than just a plain HAL file?
[21:49:00] <MacGalempsy> hi pzpz
[21:49:19] <pzpz> i'm new here
[21:49:41] <MacGalempsy> me too, relatively. came in this channel about 2 months ago
[21:50:18] <MacGalempsy> now im neck deep trying to get my machine up and going
[21:50:20] <pzpz> do you have a cnc?
[21:50:40] <MacGalempsy> non operational at the moment, but the last 4 weeks have had much progress
[21:51:13] <MacGalempsy> just got the ini file written yesterday, so on to the next chapter of the integrators manual, hence the question
[21:51:48] <kwallace1> A parallel port card just converts a 0 or 1 into a 0 or 5 volt signal. A Mesa or other FPGA card can do this but also can have intelligence such as counters, frequency or PWM generators which are in firmware/hardware which makes them really fast. A parallel port is pretty slow since it's counters and signal generators are in software only.
[21:52:40] <MacGalempsy> plius the mesa is capable of linking together a ton of cards, so it can power thousands of i/o if needede
[21:53:09] <kwallace1> I've only made WiFi antennas so far, but need to make an FM antenna for a LAN radio.
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[21:54:41] <TH9000> Does the Mesa card get flashed every time you send a g-code, or is it a one time process that happnes when you write or change the .ini file?
[21:55:05] <TH9000> What band/frequency is that LAN radio for?
[21:55:52] <MacGalempsy> kwallace1: the ini file is written for linuxcnc
[21:55:55] <MacGalempsy> oops
[21:56:01] <MacGalempsy> TH9000: ^
[21:56:35] <mpictor> TH9000: flashed, as in re-configured? only at boot, or even less frequently with something that has a configuration flash onboard
[21:56:36] <MacGalempsy> the mesa card has its own firmware, which the ini file matches up the pins to the signals
[21:57:00] <mpictor> s/boot/linuxcnc startup
[21:57:18] <MacGalempsy> < back to reading
[21:59:47] <kwallace1> Now that I'm thinking more about it, I think there is a flash utility that configures the FPGA, then the loadrt hm2 in the .ini file sets up the needed bits from the FPGA config, but I could be wrong.
[22:00:35] <mpictor> kwallace1: it depends, IIRC. those with a flash chip have a stand-alone flash utility
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[22:01:04] <mpictor> pretty sure those without flash are configured with a bit file specified on the 'loadrt hm2' line
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[22:02:11] <TH9000> What is IIRC?
[22:03:09] <kwallace1> IIRC = If I recall correctly
[22:03:17] <kwallace1> Maybe.
[22:03:24] <pcw_home> Yes for cards like the 5I25 that cannot bootstrap an empty FPGA, the firmware is stored in a Flash EEPROM
[22:03:26] <pcw_home> and loaded at power-on. Cards with a bridge chip that can be bootstrapped have their bitfile loaded at
[22:03:27] <pcw_home> linuxcnc startup (the bitfile name is specified in the config string)
[22:04:34] <TH9000> So bootstrapped cards, basically use RAM where the other cards use EEPROM?
[22:05:32] <pcw_home> well all FPGAs use RAM but it can be loaded in different ways
[22:05:56] <kwallace1> By the way pcw is _the_ guy to talk to about Mesa stuff.
[22:05:57] <TH9000> So the EEPROM gets copied into RAM?
[22:06:09] <pcw_home> I should say most FPGAs use RAM...
[22:06:31] <pcw_home> Yes the flash EEPROM data gets coppied into the FPGAs RAM at power up
[22:06:52] <TH9000> Got it, thanks, pcw_home .
[22:07:34] <TH9000> kwallace1: What band/frequency is that LAN radio for?
[22:08:10] <_DJ_> gn8
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[22:09:52] <kwallace1> I got one of these to stream my favorite NPR station through the LAN: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251182036480
[22:10:51] <kwallace1> Also one of these for aviation: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251240985308
[22:12:26] <pzpz> kwallace1: look like a cool device
[22:12:39] <kwallace1> I might use a Beagle Bone in the attic as the server.
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[22:14:07] <pzpz> we have rpi
[22:15:11] <kwallace1> The FM radio works okay, but the DVB driver hosed up the FM software. The DVB seems to need a 3.X kernel and I tried to hack the driver to work with 2.6.
[22:15:13] <TH9000> If you know the location of the NPR station, go with a directional antenna, if you don't, or it is not that far away, build a simple di-pole antenna...
[22:16:08] <pzpz> you can use DVB stick with VLC
[22:16:55] <pzpz> i'm use VLC to watch DVB-T
[22:17:19] <kwallace1> Which Linux version?
[22:18:21] <TH9000> For example, if that station is on 100MHz, the wave length is: 300/100MHz = 3 meter, each side of the di-pole is a quarter wave-length, the total dipole size is half wavelength...
[22:18:30] <pzpz> ubuntu / debian / windows
[22:18:59] <pzpz> and it's work from ubuntu 8.04 time..
[22:19:21] <pzpz> and you can use VLC as encoder
[22:19:32] <kwallace1> This is what I'm trying to do to get the local aviation frequency: http://superkuh.com/rtlsdr.html
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[22:21:21] <TH9000> kwallace1: Nice!
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[22:21:54] <kwallace1> I haven't found an RTL2832 that works with Ubuntu 10.04. I would most likely use a modern kernel for the server, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
[22:22:52] <TH9000> kwallace1: Don't you have a cheap old Radioshack scanner for the aviation band?
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[22:23:42] <andypugh> I wonder which way my A-axis should rotate?
[22:24:04] <kwallace1> Actually I'm listening to an RS Patrolman CB-60 right now.
[22:24:30] <Tom_itx> andypugh, clockwise would be the norm
[22:24:41] <kwallace1> It has AM, FM, CB, VHF and UHF.
[22:24:45] <andypugh> Looking along +X ?
[22:24:54] <Tom_itx> i believe so yes
[22:25:25] <andypugh> But then, which way is +X when it is static tool, moving table?
[22:25:50] <andypugh> The A-axis points to the right.
[22:26:22] <kwallace1> Is it right or left hand rule?
[22:26:24] <TH9000> You can try streaming your Realistic Patrolman CB-60 scanner via LAN...
[22:26:31] <Tom_itx> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_hand_rule
[22:26:59] <andypugh> I thought I understood it, but then my scale engraving came out mirrored :-)
[22:28:11] <kwallace1> So with thumb pointing right (+X), the fingers point counter clock wise.
[22:28:26] <Tom_itx> +x is with the table to your left
[22:28:38] <Tom_itx> tool on the right end of the table
[22:28:52] <Tom_itx> on a VMC
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[22:29:35] <pzpz> which brand of motors are recomrnded?
[22:29:36] <andypugh> I think I see the problem, the Axis preview looks right, but that's a different geometry.
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[22:31:20] <Tom_itx> so with A mounted in the X plane facing +X +A would rotate clockwise with the top of the rotary moving toward the rear of the mill
[22:31:28] <andypugh> pzpz: Fanuc make nice ones
[22:31:46] <kwallace1> TH9000: I looked at the CB-60 and it has a phone jack, so I guess I could just jump it to a sound in on a PC and be done.
[22:32:29] <TH9000> Yes, into the line in, not the microphone in...
[22:32:40] <andypugh> Tom_itx: Ah, yes, tool moves clockwise round work....
[22:32:47] <kwallace1> Tom_itx: but that would be left-hand rule?
[22:33:01] <Tom_itx> i don't think so unless i'm the confused one
[22:33:17] <Tom_itx> that's how our fadal was set up anyway
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[22:33:52] <pzpz> andypugh: thay sell in the usa?
[22:34:11] <andypugh> pzpz: Can you be more specific? I suspect that you are not buying at the Fanuc end of the market.
[22:34:31] <TH9000> kwallace1: better to get a cheap USB sound card (few $s) to try it, and not danger your built in sound card...
[22:34:33] <pzpz> i need 9 motors
[22:34:56] <andypugh> There are lots of different types of motors.
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[22:35:04] <pzpz> all servo
[22:35:16] <pzpz> 3 for the XYZ
[22:35:39] <pzpz> 2 for the AB
[22:36:03] <andypugh> What sort of power/torque?
[22:36:34] <pzpz> for the G0704
[22:36:48] <andypugh> Are you buying for a one-off, or do you need to have a guaranteed supply of the same parts in the future?
[22:37:42] <andypugh> Direct-coupled or with a belt reduction?
[22:37:58] <pzpz> Direct-coupled
[22:38:25] <andypugh> This is a hobby-machine for your own use, I assume?
[22:38:26] <pzpz> i prefer a new motors..
[22:38:43] <pzpz> yes.
[22:39:30] <pzpz> but u want to works with stainless steel
[22:39:40] <andypugh> I was going to point to a guy on eBay with lots of second-hand motors. ( http://stores.ebay.co.uk/FA-PARTS/SERVO-DRIVE-AMP-MOTOR-/_i.html?_fsub=456141017&_sid=542968597&_trksid=p4634.c0.m322 )
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[22:41:34] <andypugh> How do you intend to control them? Are you thinking ±10V or step/dir ?
[22:41:57] <kwallace1> Brushed or Brushless?
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[22:42:51] <pzpz> i wish to work with Brushless or AC
[22:43:18] <pzpz> but i think the controler is very expensive
[22:44:16] <TH9000> BRB...
[22:44:35] <pzpz> OK TH9000
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[22:45:08] <pzpz> andypugh: what kind a machine you have?
[22:45:32] <andypugh> A small knee-mill that I converted to AC servos.
[22:46:07] <andypugh> http://youtu.be/X0celdfZmkA
[22:46:08] <Tecan> (X0celdfZmkA) "Harrison Demo" by "andy pugh" is "Tech" - Length: 0:02:04
[22:46:47] <kwallace1> I played with Wantai motors a few years back, they may be an eBay source, but an amp may be a problem.
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[22:47:49] <kwallace1> http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/Wantai/
[22:49:19] <andypugh> Someone on the mailing list said they were happy with these Teco ones. http://machmotion.com/cnc-products/drives-motors/teco-servo-drives-and-motors.html
[22:49:40] <mpictor> andypugh: on that mill, you spin the ballnut for Y?
[22:50:05] <andypugh> And http://www.dmm-tech.com are quite well priced too.
[22:50:25] <andypugh> mpictor: Not on Y. I spin the nut on X and Z though.
[22:50:47] <mpictor> yea I meant X :)
[22:51:32] <kwallace1> My price target is $100 per motor, per driver, per axis.
[22:52:02] <andypugh> mpictor: This is how it looks: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oLM693wLua_FB8juhNe26tMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink
[22:52:18] <andypugh> kwallace1: For motor and driver?
[22:52:42] <kwallace1> $600 total for 3 axes.
[22:52:51] <andypugh> I paid £50 for those three 750W servos. But then another £100 for the connectors.
[22:53:18] <andypugh> kwallace1: What sort of power?
[22:53:37] <pzpz> how you find it sooo chipe?
[22:53:37] <mpictor> andypugh: I thought you'd need more space for the bearings
[22:54:27] <andypugh> It was a _real_ squeeze. It took me weeks to come up with a design.
[22:54:39] <pzpz> cheap*
[22:55:34] <kwallace1> Bought an eBay lot of five video cameras for $25, by mistake, and spent around $100 for the fancy connectors -- go figure.
[22:55:40] <pzpz> brashed servo are cheap?
[22:56:18] <andypugh> kwallace1: This kit is close to your budget, but 100W per axis might not suit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/281106968554?
[22:57:20] <andypugh> pzpz: I got lucky. Also as they were AC servos with Resolvers, the paralel-port guys were scared away.
[22:57:34] <kwallace1> Target motor power for Bridgeport class machine: http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/bridgeport/
[22:58:57] <pzpz> but the servo motors in video cameras is very small...
[22:59:34] <pzpz> this AC servo from ebay will work with the mesa breakborad?
[22:59:38] <andypugh> kwallace1: The 8i20 is $191 if you buy 5 of them. Then you need to find some motors as cheaply as i did.
[22:59:57] <kwallace1> I know it might be unreasonable, but I tend to spend huge chunks of time getting deals on eBay and more chunks of time hacking what I end up with.
[23:00:33] <andypugh> pzpz: You would need to check the part numbers and if they take ±10V control.
[23:01:01] <andypugh> And you might need to be more specific about which Mesa cards you have.
[23:01:09] <kwallace1> pzpz: My video reference is an example of spending $100 to justify a $25 purchase.
[23:02:46] <pzpz> i'm dont sure what mesa card i need
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[23:06:45] <kwallace1> pzpz: You might try using a cheap dual parallel port card ($15) to get your project started. Once you master getting the axes to move you will have a good idea what Mesa hardware to get.
[23:07:33] <pzpz> someone know what is the price for M7 datron?
[23:15:01] <TH9000-away> Where do you find the $15 dual parallel port cards?
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[23:16:17] <kwallace1> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
[23:19:06] <CaptHindsight> aren't those the ones with the broken EPP?
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[23:22:48] <kwallace1> Yeah, you can't use these with parallel port FPGA cards, but they are good for low speed I/O.
[23:24:20] <CaptHindsight> Rosewill RC-304 uses the MOSCHIP MCS9815CV which might not be broken, the Rosewill RC-304 uses the Moschip MCS9805 which is broken
[23:24:56] <andypugh> I have ocncluded that my A-axis does rotate the wrong way. So I will have to reverse it tomorrow.
[23:25:04] <CaptHindsight> I can't seem to find the page on the wiki that details which part numbers are the broken ones and which ones work
[23:25:27] <Tom_itx> andypugh, for my own sanity.. was what i suggested correct?
[23:26:23] <andypugh> Yes, I think so. You have to look at the rotation of the tool around the workpiece, that it where I was inverting things.
[23:26:36] <kwallace1> Check Startech, SIIG and Netmos here: http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LinuxCNC_Supported_Hardware
[23:26:41] <Tom_itx> it can get confusing if you think about it too much
[23:27:11] <andypugh> I have a 08 degree marking. But I will just hope nobody ever notices :-)
[23:29:51] <pcw_home> as far as I know all MOSChip/NetMOS 98 series chips have broken EPP mode
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[23:30:24] <pcw_home> I have not tested the 99 series (PCIE) chips
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[23:31:18] <andypugh> It's probably worth repeating that it doesn't matter unless you are using a 7i43 or a Pico PPMC
[23:32:18] <pcw_home> Yes they are fine with LinuxCNC except for FPGA card interface applications
[23:32:55] <CaptHindsight> is there a list of PCI/PCIe to EPP cards that do work with the FPGA cards?
[23:35:25] <kwallace1> I've only tested the Startech and SIIG cards on the WiKi pages. That was a few years ago so, they may not be available.
[23:36:30] <CaptHindsight> newegg carries all those brands but the specs don't always list the chip used
[23:37:49] <CaptHindsight> looks like Moschip cornered the market on providing the lowest cost EPP controller
[23:38:10] <CaptHindsight> unfortunately they are also the ones with the broken EPP hardware
[23:45:08] <pcw_home> At the time when it mattered for external hardware (printers and scanners )
[23:45:09] <pcw_home> ECP was probably more important so they never bothered fixing it (their ECP mode is fine)
[23:46:33] <pcw_home> I'm just too lazy to implement ECP in the FPGA
[23:46:35] <pcw_home> (PICO systems and the Pluto also use EPP so I'm not alone in my lazyness)
[23:53:33] <kwallace1> With the availability of low cost PCI or PCIe FPGA cards, there isn't much need for EPP. Except for the charge pump on a popular three axis stepper driver.:)
[23:55:33] <CaptHindsight> the cheapskates would beg to differ :)